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Monday, March 17, 2008
Phyllis Schlafly :: Townhall.com Columnist
Feminist 'Juno' Unfit For Any Family Award
by Phyllis Schlafly
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"Juno," which won an Academy Award for best original screenplay, is a movie sure to delight feminists. The script answers "No" to the question posed in the title of Maureen Dowd's book, "Are Men Necessary?"

Juno is the name of a bratty 16-year-old girl (and I do mean "girl" because she's too immature to be called a woman). She finds herself in what the feminists call an unplanned pregnancy after initiating a loveless one-night incident with a classmate named Paulie.

After the sex, Juno ignores Paulie, treating him as a total irrelevancy. He has nothing to say about her predicament or her decision any more than any other classmate on the high school's cross country running team.

Juno's first response to her pregnancy is to head for the abortion clinic. She changes her mind after passing a pro-life activist carrying a sign and being told that the baby has "fingernails."

The existence of fingernails seems to be what motivated her to reject abortion. Even so, Juno never refers to what she is carrying as a baby; she always calls her unborn child an "it."

Juno makes her decisions solely on a whim. She doesn't permit her parents, or Paulie, or anyone else to have any input or advice about what she will do with the baby.

Meanwhile, this Academy Award-winning script is laced with dozens of obscenities and references to teenagers' sexually active lifestyle. We get the drift of what they are taught in school when we see a public school teacher putting a condom on a banana.

Juno decides to give her thing to a prosperous childless yuppie couple who can provide all the material things of life. From a newspaper ad, she finds the perfect parents: Vanessa and Mark.

Juno's baby seems destined to live in a happy home until Mark realizes that his wife has suddenly pushed him out of the loop of her affection and attention. The movie's message is that no man should have anything to say about a baby for whom he is financially responsible.

With the impending arrival of the birth date, Mark realizes Vanessa doesn't need or want him anymore. So he decides to move on.

All Juno's happy talk about placing her baby in a good home with loving parents is forgotten. Mark's departure breaks the adoption contract, and Juno could easily have found another two-parent home.

But that was not important to Juno. She gladly gives the baby to Vanessa where he will become one more statistic of a boy raised in a fatherless home.

The movie delicately portrays the birth of Juno's baby, but that's certainly not because feminists think delivering an illegitimate baby is preferable to killing him in utero. It's because a movie about a birth produces an adorable pictorial result, while pictures of an abortion are ugly, depressing, and ... well ... not good advertisements for feminism.

The theme of this movie isn't love, romance, or respect for life, but the triumph of feminist ideology, i.e., the irrelevancy of men, especially fathers. The men in the movie are likable, but marginalized; beyond their sperm and paychecks, they have no value worth considering, and can be thrown overboard by independent women and girls.

The movie portrays the adoption as a good outcome, but it is not. The baby will grow up without a real or even a surrogate father, and Paulie, the father, is not asked to approve the adoption or to sign the adoption papers.

Someday the child will ask why he does not have a father. The truthful answer is that feminism has made fatherlessness acceptable in our society.

Juno does whatever she wants regardless of the consequences. That's a sign of immaturity, not maturity.

Her parents warn her not to visit Mark in his home alone, and she does it anyway. She has no qualms about disobeying her parents and contributing to the destruction of Mark and Vanessa's marriage.

America is in bad shape if the financial success of this movie reflects today's high school culture: sexual activity without marriage, crude pictures on the walls, vulgar language, a girl smoking a pipe, unattractive clothes, uncombed hair, enjoyment of slasher movies and weird music, and marriage breakup.

In the end, Juno decides she could like Paulie after all. Paulie is supposed to just get over the fact that Juno gave away their baby to a single woman.

The movie reviews of "Juno" usually call it a comedy. The theater where I saw it was nearly full, but I didn't see or hear anybody laugh.

Toward the end, Juno asks if it is "possible for two people to stay happy forever." The movie's obvious answer is no; not Vanessa and Mark, not Juno's father who is married to a woman not Juno's mother, and not any reason to hope that Juno would ever stay married to a good husband.

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About The Author

Phyllis Schlafly is a national leader of the pro-family movement, a nationally syndicated columnist and author of Feminist Fantasies.
 
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another good column
good work Phyllis

I read about that movie before and it certainly seems like a dark, depressing commentary on our cultural rot.

Oh, for crying out loud, Schlafly.
"Juno" was a character that OPTED AGAINST AN ABORTION, deciding instead to give her baby up for adoption.

The movie has been praised by many conservatives (including Dennis Prager & Michael Medved). Yet, somehow, YOU always find "feminism" lurking in dark corners whenever women take stock of their situations & make decisions.

Listen, Schlafly, aren't YOU the perfect example of a "feminist"? Here you are spouting your mind, something women would never, could not do in print 200 years ago.

Phyllis, go back to what you do well
Another stupid and ridiculous column by a clueless avatar of our cultural "decline." Phyllis Schlafly has about as much business being a film critic as I do being a NASA engineer. The lady should focus on what she does well.

That's right. Let's get with the program
I just saw a trailer for the movie "Baby Mama" with Tina Fey(SNL)about a career woman who at 37 decides to have a baby w/o a husband. The sooner they indoctrinate the youth the better. AT 44 I feel like I just came out of the cave everyday. But I just see it as another fashion statement that wimyn have to have. If you dare say anything less than positive about such situations you are called a hater. The truth is that most women in this country are becoming more undesirable by the day. Have you ever heard a 30something childless woman refer to dogs and cats as their children? That's a feminists idea of parenthood. Something they can lock up for 8 hours while they pursue a "career". Here in Austin,TX I see many examples of these "progressive wimyn" who have 10-12yr. olds and up. Where do I see these "families"? In any place where alcohol is readily available. A pub on Sunday night. Happy hour on Fri. afternoon. Fortunately there are many parks where I rarely see children. You see children are just an extension of these adult adolescents party life. Maybe they can't handle the bills and responsibility and are looking for some dunce to pick up the tabs. At least until somebody better comes along. And these young children have no example of what a man is supposed to be. Sure this is a college town but these retarded notions of parenthood are making good headway into the mainstream. And if you can't afford the upper class dream of "Baby Mama" then the state will be more than happy to pick up the tab via of the taxpayer. The more it happens the easier it will be to redefine family and marriage. The genie is out of the bottle.

Juno only opted against abortion
for reasons of plot.

Schafley is exactly right that the current crop of women carrying babies to term in movies is just so the cinematographer will get a cutie baby shot at the end.

They don't care about children anymore than tabloids magazines care about the targets of their incessant photographers who hound hottie celebs with "bumps." Despicable word.

Babies are merely ideological props. Women in the movies don't want them either.

No movie nominated for the Oscar this year was commerically or artistically successful on any level except for a few "cinema" critics' approvals and the Left Coast Hollywood set.

It portents the end of theatrical movies and it looks like the industry wants to hasten its death.

Absolutely Perfect, Phyliss!
If anyone needed further proof you were an out-of-touch, uptight, busybody, this should nail it.

And I thought boycotting Florida orange juice was the stupidest idea you had.... Of course, look how much good that did your kind :)

My take...
I saw the move and was it with a different observation - nowhere in the movie (which was clearly aimed at a teenage audience) did they make it look like a teenage pregnancy was in any way negative or detrimental. Sure, juno has an emotional outburst about how people look at her differently, but her life changes in no way whatsoever at the end of the move.

So the message to all the teens out there was that a pregnancy is an inconvenience, but ultimately, whether you abort or carry out the pregnancy, life will continue as normal.

There were no negative outcomes in this movie for any of the bad choice any of the characters made.

Oh yeah, longreach?
Go on. Google my name. See who's accomplished what.

I look forward to seeing your accomplishments.

And that is?
"The lady should focus on what she does well."

And what is that exactly since I have never found out. She fails at so much, I am wondering is there anything?

Well, I was curious, so I Googled...
...apparently you post to a lot of opinion blogs. Good for you. You're still condescending. it's not an effective way of changing hearts and minds, if that was your intent.

Wise words from Schlafly
The Left never gets it. They’re too busy trying to show how superior they are by belittling the values that have evolved with society over thousands of years. And they truly resent nature’s annoying habit of interfering with their preferred view of the world.

Anyone who grew up in a single-parent home, without the meaningful involvement of a second parent, knows the pain suffered by children in this situation. Regardless of what they’re told about the absent parent, there are almost always feelings of abandonment and the sense of not being loved by someone who should have loved us. Then there are the activities where there is no parent there to cheer for you because your only parent is busy working. Watching other happy families where children have the love and care of both parents is a constant reminder of what you don’t have.

Sometimes tragedy strikes and single parenting can’t be helped. But too often today it’s either a choice or a by-product of our casual, selfish approach to sex and marriage. Children deserve better. Why anyone would argue with that is a mystery to me.


Longreachone and ivory1029,
Don't worry,the comments from the posters you addressed are typical. As to whether they are real people or TH "employees" meant to stir up discussion is left to your opinion. Usually if you find one of these three posting on a column you will find the other two. As to whether they have serious emotional issues with women because they often attack female writers and seem to get perverse pleasure sharing their homosexual orientation/issues with anyone willing to spar back and forth with them is again left up to your opinion.

Most often, their sole purpose is to attack the columnist (when their argument for attacking the column is weak or nonexistent at best), to post filthy unkind comments directed at other posters, and to attempt to take the Townhall posting atmosphere directly into the sewer. Simply put: TH trolls, best ignored.

Longreach
There are quite a few people on here who see themselves as "above" us common folk. Mellor in particular, thinks he is "enlightened" and the rest of us are ignorant of the ways of the world. Self declared intellectual superiority is his character trademark.

Men soon will not be required at all
By manipulating stem cells and the genes that control specification of germ cell fates (and sex determination), it should be relatively straightforward for scientists of the future to take pre-oocytes or stem cells from one woman and induce the cell to develop into sperm instead, allowing same sex conception, and the end of man for all time. No more wars, no more hate, no more unwanted pregnancies. A Brave new world, indeed.

Mirefox,
"So the message to all the teens out there was that a pregnancy is an inconvenience, but ultimately, whether you abort or carry out the pregnancy, life will continue as normal."

How profoundly sad. Even sadder would be if that were true about the "message" of the movie.
Nothing could be further from the truth. From your comment I would venture to say that you have never been pregnant, or had an abortion, or given birth to a child, or been a parent.
None of these EVER contribute to life continuing as normal and to say so is simply dumbfounding.

As to "no negative outcomes?" Give me a break.
Maybe in the fantasy Hollywood leftist world of pretend.



Mellor
Well, you obviously don't know who suggested we all boycott Florida orange juice in spite of all your accomplishments. I'm old enough to remember, are you?




Solo610, Longreach;
Mellor and other "enlightened" twits like him are the reason our kids are coming down with venereal diseases that will be with them for the rest of their lives.

That's some legacy, folks. Some accomplishment!

Not ashamed
That is my point. I found the movie to be truly sad because of how off-base it actually was. I suppose at the end you are supposed to be happy for Juno, but I honestly felt bad for her, and I was very concerned about what teens would take away from the move.

CW,
"Children deserve better. Why anyone would argue with that is a mystery to me."

I agree. Perhaps because a good portion of our
society (thankfully not all!)has gotten to the point where the focus is utter and complete self-absorption("me, it's all about me)," self-gratification, and self-indulgence? Coupled with the education establishment, the breakdown of the family, and parents preferring to go for the almighty dollar instead of spending real, honest to good family time with their kids (other than to parade them to this and that activity in search of awards/trophies)is it any wonder?

Fortunately there are enough parents who refuse to follow the path (once again praised and celebrated by leftist media/Hollywood) knowing the irreparable harm that comes from these attitudes and behaviors.

Mirefox,
Thank you for clarifying your point. I was thinking that as I read the column....how could
Hollywood be so disconnected from reality? Then I remembered....it's Hollywood (or as some say Hollyweird.)

I have not seen the movie, despite all the rave reviews, because I knew there was no way to put a positive spin on teenage pregnancy, giving up a baby for adoption, etc. Also, I knew with the rave reviews being given by "liberals who give other liberals awards" that the movie would most likely NOT tell the truth. If the movie HAD it would have been bashed by the media.

Oh, for crying out loud, Will
Will: “Listen, Schlafly, aren't YOU the perfect example of a "feminist"?”

She certainly is representative of what a feminist should be: A highly accomplished, intelligent woman who doesn’t believe feminism is an excuse to behave irresponsibly and without regard to how our actions impact other people (including the unborn). That doesn’t describe the so-called feminists we know today.


not ashamed to be right
Well said.

It was gay activists
Who did so because the Florida Citrus Commission used Anita Bryant as its spokesperson whose biggest claim to fame before that was Miss America from Oklahoma (not exactly the brain trust center of the nation). She seemed to have some issues with homosexuals, perhaps due to some deep seated lesbian issues or something.

The boycott was successful as she was dropped by the commission and her life basically went into a tailspin.




Akagi
"The boycott was successful as she was dropped by the commission and her life basically went into a tailspin."

Yet when Don Wildmon calls for a boycott against anybody, he's accused of "censorship." Am I the only one who sees a double-standard here?

Mod Mark
Yes but had the orgiginal baby that was not aborted? Just trying to decide whether or not Juno made the right choice in having the baby.

Oops
Of coarse I meant "What happened to the original baby that was not aborted."

Thanks for the critique
I have not seen Juno, but it sounds worse than the usual Hollywood propaganda. I will definitely avoid it.

Just wondering
Phyliss Schlafly was married to the same man, John Fred Schlafly, for 44 years.

In 1992, Phyliss's eldest son (also named John) came out as a gay man.

How does Phyliss "square" the fact of a gay son occuring in her "optimal" greenhouse of christian lifestyle & 2-parent household?

If gayness if genetically predisposed (& it very may well be), then Phyliss may be carrying around some recessive gay genes in her DNA (as she denounces the "homosexual lifestyle"....although she refuses to comment on her own son's homosexuality).

Very strange. Have gay baby. Denounce gay baby. I'm sure Phyliss sees a logic there that I don't.

JUNO
Sad. Very sad.

Also, the description of this movie reminds me why I cannot imagine darkening the door of a movie theater again in my lifetime.

Juno
Ms. Schafly seems to ignore the fact that that Juno's body belongs to her; hence, whether to have this child is her decision--not her parents, not her boyfriend's, not society's. I'm the mother of three beautiful, successful daughters, none of whom became pregnant until they were well-educated, employed, and married. That said, if one of my girls had become pregnant as a teenager I would have counseled her, but the ultimate decision would have been hers.

Will
"If gayness if genetically predisposed (& it very may well be), then Phyliss may be carrying around some recessive gay genes in her DNA"

Or could it be that Phyllis Schlafly's son is gay because he CHOSE that lifestyle?

What’s the matter, Will?
You seem to be having trouble sticking with the subject at hand. Apparently you’ve moved on to a subject that you think you’ll have better luck at.

Just out of curiosity, what do you think about Schlafly’s point that, “…feminism has made fatherlessness acceptable in our society?” Is it true or isn’t it? And if it’s true, is it a good thing or a bad thing? Answering those questions might help you contribute something to this debate. But please, take a few moments to think before you speak.

Mod Mark
Planned Parenthood huh? I guess Juno should have aborted. In which case the whole plot changes. After the abortion, Juno has trouble moving on. A black man with a white mom sees her ready to jump off the Golden Gate bridge in SF. He saves her life and offers her hope...and a job on his political campaign as a true feminist, in order to combat his white female opponent for POTUS.

She later is asked to resign after making a public statement against the female white opponent for not being a true feminist as she never had an abortion.

heyjude, you talk
a strong game, but would you have been willing to play it? Somehow I doubt it. It is simply too easy to say that "after the fact" and when you have not experienced it with your own daughters.
Also, how you define "counsel" would be important here.

Why does
every article on here have to turn into a support piece for gay rights?

Frank
Well, there ARE hidden messages in movies, and songs, and books. Call it allegory, call it allusion, or simply call it writing from a certain worldview/point of view.

my 2 cents
So Juno "opted against abortion."

Great. (hint - life begins at conception)

It's just "entertainment"?

Wrong

"The movie reviews of 'Juno' usually call it a comedy. The theater where I saw it was nearly full, but I didn't see or hear anybody laugh."

I wonder why

We sewed some bitter seed in the enlightened 60s and this is what we are reaping.

God help us

Boring...Yawn...
Phyllis makes a logical series of observations and draws logical reasoned conclusions based upon what she observed.Most of the TH columnists do the same.

But logic and reasoning often draw one to conclusions that are not comforting, and often distasteful.

The detractors, once again bereft of any counter-arguments or reasoned responses, begin the ad-hominem attacks on the messenger, because they cannot refute the message. In fact that is how you know you have on the argument, when the liberal just starts calling you names, louder and louder.

My only observation is that Juno's first poor choice was considered perfectly normal and acceptable yet is completely ignored in the movie.

As for scientists creating a woman only society, it is more likely than men (scientists) will find a way to trick a stem cell to become a man, and develope immune-blind cows to serve as surrogate uteri, so we would have an all male society.

ModMark:

I didn’t see the movie so I’ll only comment on the broader points Schlafly was making.

Going back to the days of the infamous ‘Murphy Brown’ baby the left wing of the feminist movement has advanced the notion that there is nothing really wrong with women having babies on their own, with no plan to have a father in the picture. Now we see planned, single parenthood quite frequently. Hopefully you would at least agree that this much is true, since it is.

I don’t have much sympathy for the men, quite frankly. Being marginalized is the risk they assume for irresponsible behavior, just as pregnancy is the risk that women take. But I do think it’s a tragedy for the children involved. Fathers are important for many reasons, and I think it’s pretty self-evident that nature intended them to be there. Ask any child of a single mom if he/she wishes they had a father. Believe me, they will say yes.

Feminists see themselves as yet another protected group – protected from criticism, that is. We are not allowed to point out the utter selfishness of denying a child a father. Rather than sacrifice their independence (or whatever it is they think they’d be giving up by taking a spouse), better the child make the sacrifice.

I googled "mellorsj2" as well...
And also came up with quite a few blog postings but sadly nothing else. Perhaps when one lives in their parents' basement they have the abundant free time which allows them to post in such a prolific manner. The rest of us have jobs.

His opinions are rather universally uninformed and his logic could perhaps charitably be called mediocre. If those are the accomplishments of which he brags he is a very sad individual indeed.

To be fair, I also googled "Mellor". Now there are quite a few accomplished Mellors, and I suppose he could claim to be one of them. There was even a Steve Mellor who had a few bit parts in commercials and films. Steve, if that's you, your D- list "resume" might give you a few sympathy sighs at a Hollywood party, and might give our precious friend and fellow poster Will a wet dream or two, but it hardly qualifies you as accomplished, and actually speaks rather poorly to your intellect.


Flash
"As for scientists creating a woman only society, it is more likely than men (scientists) will find a way to trick a stem cell to become a man, and develope immune-blind cows to serve as surrogate uteri, so we would have an all male society."
-----

Go look at the faculty line-ups for the Developmental Biology Departments at major universities. Ask yourself which way your typical scientist is leaning politically. Mix that together and see what you come up with...

Will
"In 1992, Phyliss's eldest son (also named John) came out as a gay man.

How does Phyliss "square" the fact of a gay son occuring in her "optimal" greenhouse of christian lifestyle & 2-parent household? "

----

It would be OK on any other day.

Sadly, this movie
appears to be a realistic teen movie about todays contemporary society. Go liberals, keep doing your thing!

Planet of the apes
I would not expect a movie written by a stripper to contain any great eternal truths, but a casual perusal of Internet comments will reveal the cultural rise of the baby mamma mentality, in which the baby mamma generally justifies her status by saying that what counts is not how many parents a child has, but whether it is raised in a "loving" home. That is supposed to end the discussion - after all, you don't want to oppose love, do you? They assume that loving is the default, with the implication that loving has no objective manifestation. They seem to think that as long as the single mother does not issue a press release explicitly stating that she hates the child, then she does, of course, actually love the child. No objective criteria for "love" is ever recognized except for obvious concrete acts such as feeding and clothing the child; complex acts such as guiding and mentoring a child do not exist in the minds of these people. Family instability is simply too abstract a concept for them to grasp.

What is alarming to me is not the obvious disadvantage they give to the next generation of children, which is bad enough, but the fact that our humanity is degenerating into such a set of simple-minded, anti-conceptual, glorified hairless chimpanzees.

Welcome to reality
Phyllis says,

America is in bad shape if the financial success of this movie reflects today's high school culture: sexual activity without marriage, crude pictures on the walls, vulgar language, a girl smoking a pipe, unattractive clothes, uncombed hair, enjoyment of slasher movies and weird music, and marriage breakup.

Oh my god, this is the funniest paragraph I've read in a long time, please tell me Phyllis is joking. Really, unattractive clothes, uncombed hair, weird music, sorry we disappointed you Grandma, now back to the rest home!!! I hear they are having "The Waltons" marathon on TV

ModMark:

ModMark: “It is a fairy tale were everyone is happy in the end.”

Except for the child who was cheated out of a father.

ModMark: “But if we are to blame the feminist for making an "utter selfishness of denying a child a father", this list will have many other.”

Okay – so? Since other people make mistakes we shouldn’t address this one? Neither Phyllis Schlafly nor anyone else is saying that the mistakes of feminists absolve others from their mistakes. She’s just looking at one specific issue brought on by the movie.

ModMark: “You should rent Juno and put all this leftie/rightie stuff away for a couple of hours and enjoy the script.”

So would you enjoy a movie with an anti-gay theme as long as it had a happy ending? Some of us can’t put aside our principles that easily.

ModMark: “I am a father of two boys.”

And I’m sure you’re a great father. No doubt you give them love, guidance, discipline and stability, all in your unique male way. This makes it all the more surprising that you would defend a movement that sees nothing wrong in depriving other children of this same gift.


Re: Bozojangles @ 8:26 pm
"sorry we disappointed you Grandma, now back to the rest home!!!"

This is what passes for intelligent debate from the Left. No doubt Schlafly’s resume makes this guy look like a street sweeper in comparison (or maybe even an aspiring street sweeper). But then, some men never could tolerate strong women.


Reflecton, not Prescription
Lighten up, people. Take any teenage girl to see this movie, ask her if she wants it to happen to her, and she will say no. If it is an exercise in propaganda to promote fatherless pregnancy, it is a dismal failure.

So there must be some other reason that so many people, from all walks of life, adore this movie. I suggest that it is precisely because it doesn't push an agenda. It doesn't preach, it simply explores in a tasteful, plausible way a real-life situation that happens every day.

I really like the work of Jason Reitman (who directed this movie). People attacked "Thank You For Smoking" (his last movie) because of a perceived pro-smoking agenda. People have attacked "Juno" both for being pro-life, and for being pro-death-of-the-west propaganda.

They are both simply movies, whose only popularity and resonance comes from their accuracy in observation, not some perceived prescriptive power.

Seeing as that I am a male...
... and I don't have a lockbox on my testicles, I still find this column a little lame.
I have a Delorean time machine that has been set to go back to the year 1955. Go ahead. Go back in time with it. I wouldn't be able to live there for five minutes, but I'm sure you'll be happily content at living in a mundane world where nothing is the least bit exciting unless Marty McFly is in it.

"The question isn't 'Where the hell are we?', it's 'WHEN the hell are we?'"
Doc Brown, Back To The Future

Sorry, I just can't let this one go
I don't understand Schlafly's concern that Juno opted against abortion “only” because of fingernails. Isn't that a victory for us pro-lifers? Or is it only a victory if the baby is saved when the mother realizes that God already knows the child in her womb, or when the mother philosophically realizes that an unborn child is human life fully entitled to protection from violence under the law? Funny, I would have thought a baby not being killed was enough.

Apparently, every child on the silver screen be born to a two parent, financially secure, mentally stable, tax-paying, property owning, God-fearing, lawn mowing nuclear family? Because as nice as that ideal is, it's not realistic, and frankly, makes for terrible storytelling.

It was Mark Twain who said, “The secret source of humor is not joy, but sorrow.” To complain that the movie is not funny, just because elements of it are sad, is naïve. Human emotions are not static; in order to feel the joy of laughter, one must also know how it feels to cry.

Lastly, if you want to fault anybody for the "feminist" aura of Juno, blame the Romans. (Juno was the chief Roman Goddess.) It was the original Juno who was independent, arrogant, and alternately disdainful of and fascinated by her children's father. (If you think those trait's and this movies names are coincidence, think again.)

Did we see the same movie?
Normally, I agree with most everything Schlafly writes. Not here, though. You'd think we'd seen two different movies from her take on it.

Juno obviously made a bad decision that led to her condition, but she did decide to have the baby. She also made a mature decision to give the baby up for adoption and cared about who the parents would be.

I don't think men are treated as irrelevant in the movie. The very immature adoptive father, Mark, was the one who messed up the two-parent scenario Juno wanted for her baby. He walked out on his marriage shortly before the baby was due. Juno's father is very loving and supportive; he raised her after her mother walked out on them. Paulie, the baby's father, is in love with Juno, but geeky and insecure enough not to let her know.

There were some very meaningful, poignant moments in this film that Schlafly seems to have missed. One is the scene between Juno and her dad, after Mark and Vanessa have split up and Juno wonders whether two people can stay happy together forever. He indicates that they can and says that you need to find someone who will love you just as you are. Juno finally realizes that she loves Paulie.

While they give up their baby to Vanessa (another wonderful scene shows just how much she already loves the unborn baby), they don't take it lightly. They do what's best for the baby.

sad
I have seen several columns by feminists upset with Juno, in conjunction with other movies like Knocked up, which are dismissive of abortion and then suggests that people simply choosing to have their babies makes everything work out fine.
This is the first column I have seen describing this as feminist propaganda.

This seems to be a case in which each side is being equally silly. What is sad is the mindset that makes it impossible to enjoy a movie because one is too busy looking for things to be offended by.

In this regard Schafely's claim that noone finds the movie funny seems particularly silly. This was a low budget independent movie. It did not make its money on the heavy advertising. It needed word of mouth to even get to wide release. Apparently a lot of people found in funny. But for some people it can't even be possible for things they dislike to be found enjoyable by others.

One does not get the sense that Schafely would like any entertainment that did not hit you over the head with a conservative message, becasue obviously hers is not a message that can win by presenting situations and letting people think about what conclusions to draw.

Feminist Juno
Phyllis what did you expect from an ex-stripper's retirement vehicle? Let's face it to be fifty and hanging upside down on a silver pole having men stuff dollar bills in your g-string denotes a sense of loserdom.
Being a stripper is a tough job, I couldn't do it, could you imagine my belly hanging upside down? eeeeeewwwwwww!
Anyway, I viewed Juno as a light-hearted unrealistic teen movie with some funny moments, and congratulations to it's writer who hopefully sold the rights for a small fortune, thus she won't have to ever strip again. And to think when I was stuffing five dollar bills in her g-string and she said she was taking college writing courses, she actually was.

Why some of us can't laugh
My youngest child is adopted from South Korea. The agonizing decision and unspeakable life long pain of placing a child for adoption out of love is not anything I can see as funny even with the best of intentions and excellent writing. I will skip the movie out of respect to birth mothers whom we adoptive parents are indebted to for saving our children's lives.

If you would like to give your teenage daughters a cautionary example of the seriousness of unwanted pregnancy get a copy of I Wish For You A Beautiful Life: Letters from Korean Birth mothers of Ae Ran Won to their Children.

Here are quotes from 4 letters:

...I needed money for an abortion, so I worked in the kitchen of someone's house. Once I had earned some money, I went to the hospital and saw you through the ultrasound. After hearing the beating of your heart, seeing your features through the screen, and feeling your movement in my body, I just couldn't have an abortion. I realized you were alive in my body, and I could not commit such an unpardonable sin..."pg. 53

"I had mixed feelings of joy and sorrow when you were born. I was happy that you were born safely, and I was sorry that I couldn't keep you. It grieved me that I had to let you go. My heart is so broken as I write this letter. I feel more pain than at any time in my life." pg.59

"But know this one thing-that even if you are brought up by someone else you will always be my baby and I will always have longing for you...Dear baby, I think of you many many times a day. Sometimes my heart is so burdened and I feel guilty because I have wronged you." pg. 77

"I used to wake up in the middle of the night, as if I heard your crying. But it was only a dream and you were not there. Then I cried because I missed you so much. Now I have learned to express my sorrow without crying. I have cried deep down in my heart with yearning for you." pg. 120

ModMark/AliveInHim/Ivory/Solo
My, my! I'm so glad you're taking such an interest in me.

ModMark's suppositions are correct (not the lamb castrating bit, though :)

Ivory: Had you had the wit to work out my name, you wouldn't have got the myspace page for some girl. Oh, and how is Phyllis' column any more valid than a prolific blogger?

Am I condescending? You bet you're sweet bippy! There is sooo much to condescend to!

Take AliveInHim, for instance. Here is someone who defines her(?)self in terms of an imaginary friend. "PoohBear" might be mildly amusing, but she's serious. Then we have that "enlightened" line about "the reason our kids are coming down with venereal diseases." I'd love to see some reasoning for that. Or perhaps not...

As for "intellectual superiority," Solo, let's just say you and I are amongst the very few on this site who can spell.

Thanks to Akagi for correcting me, and reminding me of the full horror of Phyllis' story.

Yes, longreach. Let's compare Ms Oklahoma and the creation of a successful boycott against her employer with my accomplishments. Go on. You know you can.

Yes, ModMark, I am enjoying this. Especially your line about frightening Americans :)


Phyllis: clueless enough to be funny
I guess the only way for a nutcase like her to be humorous is to be unintentionally so.

By the way, her "review" (to use the term generously) is rife with inaccuracies. She's either lost it or she's blatantly lying to the sheeple that read her and admire her; and she can do that because most of them will take her word for it instead of seeing the movie and judge by themselves. Independent thought is so scary for right-wing nuts that they prefer Alzheimer's to it.

lighten up
i am a 17 year old male and i really enjoyed this movie. i don't think it has a liberal or feminist or conservative or any sort of agenda, i think it is just a movie about a girl that got into a bad situation and tried to make the best of it. unfortunately unplanned teen pregnancy is common today but that's what enables us to relate to it, because i've known girls my age who have gotten pregnant and i'm pretty sure you can ask anyone my age and they'll say they've known a girl our age who's gotten pregnant, and thats why this movie was popular among people my age. And just because the movie has a character, Mark, who is a jerk and leaves his wife, Vanessa, and Juno decides to give her the baby anyways doesn't mean the movie's message is that men aren't important in raising a child it. Vanessa had wanted a child for a long time and and Juno was able to give her that child she always wanted it's that simple there's no feminist message in that. and with all due respect i think Ms.Schlafly might be to old to understand high school culture. I understand her issues with sex with out marriage and vulgar language, but i don't get her issues with a girl smoking a pipe (which i thought was hilarious) our "unattractive clothes", "uncombed hair", our "enjoyment of slasher movies and weird music", and i don't know what crude pictures on the wall she was talking about. just because you don't like our hairstyles, our clothes, or our music or us watching old slasher movies, doesn't mean that "america is in bad shape"

Illegitimacy is like anything
outside law and custom, dangerous and corrupting.

The Puritans were harsh in The Scarlet Letter partly because they had such a tenuous hold on their lives in the world that a child without both parents to raise and protect it was a drain on a society living on the fringes of survival.

Teenagers of my generation were adults who left high school to marry or wed right after graduation, started businesses, bought houses, had children. A few will shortly celebrate 50th anniversaries.

Today's artificial infancy lasts well into young people's 20s and 30s thru' demands for higher levels of education and creates a pressure cooker of sexuality versus diploma.

It isn't that this movie is so charming because all adolescents know someone who got pregnant but because Hollywood sees kids as happy little test tubes of experimentation that can be manipulated around through MTV and rap music to see what damage they can do to themselves.

Juno gets pregnant through stupidity.

If she were really charming, and really so smart, she wouldn't be pregnant.

All those poor young girls carrying VD, often unknown to them, became infected because teenagers today are not responsible adults. They have been converted into infantile consumers of materialism and sex.

Radicals always use sex to undermine society. It produces personal and communal disaster. The French tried it and the Russians tried it and killed untold tens of millions. The free sex produced a virus of unwanted children and disease.

Our left is doing the same thing today. They use sex to separate children from their parents: opposing notification laws over abortion. They infect the public schools with laughable sex ed programs that now start in some places in kindergarten. Regardless, for students it's always too little too late.

Has this open sexualtiy done any real good? Are marriages stronger? Is health stronger? Are citizens freer? Has the great millennium of utopia arrived? Evidently not.


Schlafly misses the mark
I agree with much of what Ms. Schlafly says here, but a few of her claims about "Juno" are way off. First, she claims that Juno becomes pregnant after a night of loveless sex, when the movie makes it more than clear that Juno adores Paulie, who is her long-time best friend, and is fairly crushed by his failure to "man up" during her pregnancy (which is more just a matter of his being a hapless, clueless boy than anything else, for he, too, adores her.) This is not just some casual relationship, and that matters.

Second, and fairly important, is the fact that Mark does NOT leave Vanessa because he realizes "she doesn't want or need him anymore." That's hogwash! Mark leaves Vanessa because he's an immature, aging hippie who's terrified at the prospect of growing up. Hanging out with the teenage Juno reminds him of his own rock 'n roll youth, and he decides he's not ready to be a father, with all the responsibility and maturity that entails. To lay his flaky, infantile selfishness at the feet of Vanessa is unfair and a perfect example of someone grasping at straws to make the evidence fit the argument.

I thought Juno's decision to keep her baby was admirable. Yes, perhaps it was initially based on "fingernails," but I believe she had an epiphany, a moment of recognition and understanding, and was, at that point, led to do the right thing, despite what "the culture" would have had her do. I'm surprised Ms. Schlafly saw nothing redeeming in this movie.



homeschool mom
"I will skip the movie out of respect to birth mothers whom we adoptive parents are indebted to for saving our children's lives"
--------------

I haven't seen the movie either. Without a doubt, birth mothers should be respected for making a right choice in a tough situation. No one can accuse them of taking the easy way out.

I wonder how much time the makers of this movie spent portraying the pain mixed with courage involved with placing a child for adoption. Comedy really doesn't come to mind when thinking of the realities of the situation.

Hermione
While I haven't seen the movie, I have to question the intentions of the makers and why the story was written to portray men in such a negative stereotype.

For example, the failure of the friend-boy (as opposed to boyfriend) to man-up as you say could have been written differently. Same thing with the husband of Vanessa. Why are men such losers in this film?

Actually in general, why are men written as losers in most television today. Are there ANY positive men on tv? Admittingly I watch very little tv so I need a little help on this one. Can anyone come up with a list of good male role models in the current lineup of network television. The bits and pieces of shows that I have seen are re-runs of Seinfeld (no positive male role models there...or women as far as that goes), Everybody Loves Raymond....zilch again. King of Queens....I am batting zero here. Desperate Housewives (watched half a season)...Lipstick Jungle (have only caught the ads)....The Office....My name is Earl....Smallville (okay that one may have some positive males in it...but it's based on characters created seventy years ago and were talking about Superman here...kind of hard to screw that up.)

I believe positive men exist in abundant numbers however hollywood has found them unmarketable so instead they market the loser man because it sells and it's funny.

Daughters
Fingernails are a huge reason to not have an abortion. The little girl holding her sign at the abortion clinic was loving and honest. Goodness touched Juno's heart and she was at least afraid to do something she felt uneasy about. Yes, girls are still getting pregnant out there in a very immature, selfish, and irresponsible manner. I have a 15 year old daughter with 15 year old friends and all I can say is we need to keep a close eye on our daughters but even then we may fail. My daughter saw the movie and was so excited that the baby was not aborted. She loved the girl with the sign. The man that left was entirely self-centered. That may have been the authors point. My husband was so jealous when we had our first it made our marriage and parenthood unbearable but I turned to God and He helped us through. Remember unbelievers do not usually go to Him for help. I'm going to see the movie for myself because she was so excited about it and use your column to help with a discussion with my daughter.

Daughters
Fingernails are a huge reason to not have an abortion. The little girl holding her sign at the abortion clinic was loving and honest. Goodness touched Juno's heart and she was at least afraid to do something she felt uneasy about. Yes, girls are still getting pregnant out there in a very immature, selfish, and irresponsible manner. I have a 15 year old daughter with 15 year old friends and all I can say is we need to keep a close eye on our daughters but even then we may fail. My daughter saw the movie and was so excited that the baby was not aborted. She loved the girl with the sign. The man that left was entirely self-centered. That may have been the authors point. My husband was so jealous when we had our first it made our marriage and parenthood unbearable but I turned to God and He helped us through. Remember unbelievers do not usually go to Him for help. I'm going to see the movie for myself because she was so excited about it and use your column to help with a discussion with my daughter.

Trying to hard to make your point
I think this article is trying too hard to make its point. One misinterpretation of the article is to say that Vanessa was pushing Mark out because he was irrelevant. The film made it very clear that he backed out because he wasn't ready for the responsibility to be a father. He wanted to stay in his adolescent world. Juno didn't willingly participate to break up the marriage. She thought he was a cool guy to be the father of her child and was shocked when he found out that Mark was a jerk.

Juno's parent's parenting style was that of letting her bare the consequences of her own actions. It is a love-and-logic approach that does not attempt to "rescue" and "fix" but lets the person who screwed up work through their own problems while coming in at times with wise counsel and direction (which may be received or ignored).

I don't see this feminist message. I see people in a broken world who made big mistakes where God used Providence to move them towards making better and more responsible (though not always perfect) decisions.

maninblack
"I understand her issues with sex with out marriage and vulgar language, but i don't get her issues with a girl smoking a pipe (which i thought was hilarious) our "unattractive clothes", "uncombed hair", our "enjoyment of slasher movies and weird music", and i don't know what crude pictures on the wall she was talking about. just because you don't like our hairstyles, our clothes, or our music or us watching old slasher movies, doesn't mean that "america is in bad shape".
-----------------
Just a couple of quick thoughts. I liked your take on the movie because of your age. Clearly different aged people look through different lenses so it's safe to say that Mrs. Schlafly is looking at the movie through a different set of eyes then you are. And that is a good thing as it brings balance to an imbalanced world. Both sets of eyes (the elderly and the youth) bring balance to the discussion.

This last thought comes from someone who is in his late 30's. Teenagers still like to watch slasher movies? Wow...the more things change... the more they stay the same.

ModMark: Yup
"So the mellor form Yourdon, those good old data flow diagrams. Is that you?"

Yup.

"I hope all is well with you and your father."

Thanks. Spent all morning looking at homes :( Off again now for the afternoon session


This silly, pointless debate
Is TH at it's worst.

I consider myself to be a feminist, I didn't particularly like the movie, but my criticism were based more on cinematic grounds and, also, I found as predictable and formulaic as most truly mediocre movies where everything is resolved into one happy ending.

that have been said, it was funny, it's character's were appealing and good-hearted, and it succeeded in making the viewer root for them all the way through. Yes, I was uncomfortable by the ease with which Juno solved her out-of-wedlock pregnancy and easily found a beautiful loving woman to raise her child so she wouldn't have to even consider an abortion.

But, Phyllis, IT'S A MOVIE!!!!!!!!!!
Movies are the stories we tell ourselves, people have done so since we sat around campfires in the night.

Get a life, Phyl - maybe you could reserve your TH space for important issues.

conscientious objector
Maybe I didn't put a fine enough point on it. I just don't think this is subject matter for humor. I think it is cruel and insulting to women who have been in Juno's position.

I wouldn't go to a movie that portrayed 9/11 in a humorous way. It would be cruel and insulting to those who lost loved ones.

I have a problem with trivializing or not acknowledging the pain these women endure for the sake of entertainment.

ModMark
"Very impressive, it did have major impact in the tech world."

Not according to longreachone, brian in va, ivory1029, solo610 and AliveInHim :)

I'm still waiting to hear what these fine folk have accomplished. Less even that Phyllis, I'll bet!

formerlyknownasHomeschoolMom
Sorry to disagree, but EVERYTHING is subject for humor, especially painful subjects. Jokes are the way we make ourselves feel better, and it's how we cope with things that are dark, scary, and dangerous.

If we stopped making jokes because the subject matter could potentially offend someone, there would be no jokes at all (at least no jokes worth telling). How many jokes don't start out, "So a guy dies and is standing at the pearly gates..." or "X, Y, and Z are on an airplane, and the engines go out..."? Should we not tell these jokes because planes crash, or people die? Perhaps we would be better off recognizing that jokes are simply jokes.

Also, say what you will about a humorous 9/11 movie, but just remember, eventually EVERYTHING becomes grounds for humor. Time heals all wounds, by leaving funny looking scars. If you had asked Americans in 1951 if they would ever watch a TV comedy about a German POW camp, they'd have told you no. And even though POW camps were not funny, Hogan's Heroes was. 9/11 will never be funny, but someday (if not already) there will be funny 9/11 jokes. It may sadden you, but it encourages me. Life goes on, people don't mourn forever, and we find a way to get a spark of laughter to help us through our day.

Will endorses McCain!
"Oh, for crying out loud, Schlafly.
"Juno" was a character that OPTED AGAINST AN ABORTION, deciding instead to give her baby up for adoption."

Oh, for crying out loud, McCain agreed to build the fence (before passing a guest worker program)! C'mon people, get with the program and

SUPPORT THE LESSER OF TWO EVILS.

Would have been better if she had opted not to bang a boy she didn't love.

How about a movie about a boy and a girl who fall in love, wait until graduation to get married, have a child, and have to struggle and try to survive in a modern world that has nothing but contempt for such people?

"Ms. Schafly seems to ignore the fact that that Juno's body belongs to her; hence, whether to have this child is her decision--not her parents, not her boyfriend's"

Yes, and the baby's body belongs to him/her. HALF the baby's DNA was the FATHER's, so he certainly had as much say as did Juno. Oh, dear, she was the one who had to carry it to term... well, she chose to have sex. Why an innocent, UNIQUE individual should have to die just because she made a bad decision, rather than her being responsible for her bad decision, is mind-boggling in its lack of reason.
She's already demonstrated that she can't make good decisions, and so we should let make a life or death decision for another person?

ModMark - the MSBug
MS is no doubt already working on SP1 for the Y2K bug; it'll be version 2.1k

homeschoolmom
I think that many serious issues can still be told with some humorous elements mingled in. This film apparently just did a poor job of it.

As Mod Mark says, this film is a pure hollywood fairy tale that takes a serious subject and waters it down for the masses, where they all live happily ever after (except apparently the Juno's friend-boy and Mark the deadbeat husband).

Wasn't there another film out last year though, that did a better job of portraying adoption in a more realistic light?


Mod Mark/MellorSJ2
Hey you are right Mark. After sifting through all that relevance in your last few comments, I agree Mark...Where did everybody go to?

What the heck is TH doing messing with the format now. It's user friendliness just sort of went out the window (especially those of us with stone age dial up) with the baby and the bathwater.

touj
" maybe you could reserve your TH space for important issues"
--------------

Adoption,abortion, teenage peer relationships, parent/child relationships, husband/wife relationships, teenage sex, teenage pregnacy...um yeah not really important issues. Maybe you would like to discuss something more important, like say the all important relevance of MellorSJ2's accomplishments in the tech world.

Mod Mark
I not a big fan of Ms. Schlafly, my taking a crap this morning is bigger than what she has done :-)
-----------
That really sounds quite painful. Sheesh.

Yeah the wandering around is getting a little old as time is limited and you're right, I havn't seen a post from Sophie in what seems like a week or so. Awful.

Hey, there is this Norman person though. Check his post on the recent Mike Adams thread Audacity of Hope 127. Click on Norman's name to go to his blog. He has some comments there that were directed directly at you from last week I think and I thought I would pass that on to you to give you a chance to respond or comment back to him. From what I have seen, Norman seems to enjoy himself on these threads a bunch. Check it out.

Re: crude ModMark

“I not a big fan of Ms. Schlafly, my taking a crap this morning is bigger than what she has done :-)”

This strange, rude comment (along with some of the others I’ve read) makes me wonder what a woman has to do to impress a liberal. I researched Schlafly’s biography in regards to a different post recently and was stunned by what this woman has achieved, especially when you consider that she started in a time when it wasn’t typical for a woman to be highly educated and highly accomplished, all while raising a family. Her resume is too lengthy to repeat here.

I certainly can understand if you disagree with Schlafly’s point of view, but I’ll never understand the childish need to ridicule her accomplishments just because you disagree. Your attitude only underscores what many of us already understand about liberals, which is that their cheerleading for the status of women in society is completely disingenuous.

Just out of curiosity, if you disagreed with say, Martin Luther King, would you then proceed to compare his life’s accomplishments to crap?

ModMark

It’s okay Mark. I understand that your capacity is limited. I wasn’t anticipating an intelligent reply.

At least the ole girl actually saw it...
But oh the peity of some of you here who simply "cannot" bear to watch this film because of this or that or the other - you sound like imbuciles.

Driven to hysterics by the mere existance of a film.

hey mod mark
I actually agree with you on something. The whole "talk about this article" thing. I sent a note too.

Did you know it was actually a glitch? Not the way it is now,--the way it was before.

This is how it used to be, then there was this glitch (at least I thought it was a glitch) that popped up all the recent comments instead of just the one for the link you were on. That has gone on for months. I thought they weren't going to fix it.

But I thought it was nice too. Gave energy to the place. Now---it's just sorta quiet. If I want to pick a fight or agree with someone, I have to bounce all over, and who has time for that???

Hope they bring back the glitch!

yeah,
It's kind of sad. It's like spring break at college when everyone goes home. I admit it, sometimes I just stop by to see who's on. Well, I mean, of course I'm here for the articles! :)

Maybe they'll fix it soon. After all, more traffic means more revenue, right?

Hey CW
You might read longreachone's post on Monday at 14:12, in which s/he wrote: "This woman at her age accomplishes more in 1 month than you have your whole lives."

Make a statement like that--especially if you direct it at named individuals--and you may expect to be challenged :)

Western Moonbeam/ModMark
Yeah, what's up with the Talk About This Article?

I want my sophie one-liners!!!

Feminist 'Juno' Unfit For Any Family Award
Funny how Ms. Schlafly conveniently failed to mention that the failed adoptive father first hit on the natural mother, and then abandoned his marriage vows. It takes a pretty twisted mind to morph that into "he was no longer wanter, and so he moved on". Amazing.
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