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Monday, April 16, 2007
Phyllis Schlafly :: Townhall.com Columnist
No stemming the tide of good U.S. jobs going overseas
by Phyllis Schlafly
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On the first day that H-1B visas became available, corporations snapped up all that are allowed. Our government received 150,000 applications for the 85,000 slots set aside to bring in foreign skilled workers.

Corporations whine that H-1Bs are needed because of a shortage of Americans with skills, but major studies at the University of California Davis and Duke University conclusively prove we have thousands of unemployed or underemployed Americans with all the needed technical skills. Nobel economist Milton Friedman accurately labeled H-1Bs a government "subsidy" to enable employers to get workers at a lower wage.

The best way to deal with the demand for a limited number of H-1Bs would be to auction them off, so then we would find out if they are really needed and how much they are worth. An auction would enable taxpayers to get some return on the H-1B subsidy instead of the current system that allows corporations to influence congressmen with campaign contributions and pay high-priced lobbyists to get legislation to increase the number.

Contrary to corporate propaganda, H-1Bs are not an alternative to outsourcing skilled jobs but a vehicle to promote outsourcing. H-1Bs enable corporations to bring in foreigners, train them in American ways, and then send them back to guide outsourced plants in Asia.

For years we've been told that it's OK for our manufacturing jobs to be outsourced overseas because the United States will always keep the technology, engineering, innovative, service-industry and white-collar jobs. Even when service-industry jobs began to be outsourced, we were told, those are just low-skill tasks like answering customer inquiries.

It turns out that was all a lie. The high-skill and technical jobs are also rapidly moving overseas, especially to India.

Boeing now employs hundreds of Indians for aircraft engineering, writing software for next-generation cockpits and systems to prevent aircraft collisions. Investment banks like Morgan Stanley are hiring Indians to analyze American stocks and to write reports for institutional investors, jobs formerly done by Americans earning six-figure salaries on Wall Street.

Eli Lilly is doing major pharmaceutical research in India. Cisco Systems, the leading maker of communications equipment, will have 20 percent of its top talent in India within five years, and global-consulting giant Accenture will have more employees in India than in the United States by the end of this year. IBM reduced its American work force by 31,000 while increasing its Indian staff to 52,000. Citigroup, which already has 22,000 employees in India, plans to eliminate 26,000 jobs in the U.S. and increase its Asian work force by another 10,000 where the pay is lower.

Follow the money, of course, explains this massive shift in jobs. It's cheaper to hire and produce in India than in the United States.

The unhappy results of these policies are now apparent; they richly benefit the corporations but are devastating to the American middle class. Outsourcing reduces good American jobs, our standard of living, our national security, and our world leadership.

This massive change in our economy should be Page One news, but you have to look on the lower half of the inside pages of pro-globalism newspapers like the New York Times to find the facts. It was a real surprise when the Wall Street Journal (always a big supporter of free trade, globalism, and open borders) published a Page One article under the headline "Pain From Free Trade Spurs Second Thoughts."

This article reported that one of the most prominent advocates of free trade, professor Alan Blinder, now says that free trade can put 30 million to 40 million American jobs at risk, mostly from outsourcing.

Blinder is one of the United States' most influential economists. A professor at Princeton University with a doctorate from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, he is a former Federal Reserve vice chairman and adviser to several presidents. For years, he has been peddling the notion that free trade enriches the United States.

Blinder just got around to looking at the facts, and the facts changed his views. He ranked 817 occupations to identify how likely each one is to go overseas.

The most vulnerable jobs are bookkeepers, accountants, computer programmers, data entry keyers, medical transcriptionists, graphic designers, and financial analysts. Blinder now says that the millions of U.S. jobs that have already gone to Asia are "only the tip of a very big iceberg."

Blinder is not the only prestigious economist who is having second thoughts. Nobel laureate Paul Samuelson, who wrote the principal textbook used in university economics classes, is now criticizing globalization and admitting that rich countries aren't always winners from free trade.

Most Democrats who won in November 2006 talked a lot about the issue of jobs, while Republicans who lost kept mouthing the tired old mantra that globalism is both good and inevitable. Republicans can't win the White House in 2008 without Pennsylvania, Ohio or Wisconsin, all of which have lost thousands of jobs to outsourcing.

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About The Author

Phyllis Schlafly is a national leader of the pro-family movement, a nationally syndicated columnist and author of Feminist Fantasies.
 
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Outsourcing jobs
What can we do to put and end to these Visa progrms that bypass American Labor and import aliens? This will surely cripple
America's lead in the world of business, as these workers take the skills and training overseas. I think it is treasonous to allow such a visa program and I blame our so called 'conservative' president for advancing the worker visa program.

http://www.thenation.com/blogs/actnow?bid=4&pid=1225

Protectionism
Protectionism = Right Wing Global Warming. Besides the idea of auctioning the visas, Phyllis is an alarmist. How can the largest economy in the world lose 30-40 million jobs without creating new ones. Blaming corporations for the woes of the world is the liberals' game. We can only blame ourselves for getting too comfortable with our competitive advantages.

Great Labor Shortage Lie”

BusinessWeek Debunks the “Great Labor Shortage Lie”

BusinessWeek: A global labor crunch, already being felt by some employers, appears to have intensified in recent months. That’s in spite of widely publicized layoffs, including Citigroup’s plans to shed as many as 15,000 staffers… Corporations are determined to keep labor costs under control, so they’re reaching deeper into their bag of tricks…Some are lowering their standards for new hires or moving operations to virgin territories other outsourcers haven’t discovered…

Economists, of course, will tell you there’s no such thing as a labor shortage. From a worker’s viewpoint, many so-called shortages could quickly be solved if employers were to offer more money. And worldwide, millions of people still can’t find jobs. The strongest evidence that there’s no general shortage today is that overall worker pay has barely outpaced inflation.

SirotaBlog: Politicians…couch their bought-off immigration positions in humane terms - pretending that they care about the plight of impoverished Mexicans. Yet, most of these same politicians aggressively supported NAFTA, which deliberately drove 19 million Mexicans into poverty.

And even more to the point: advocating for so-called “guest worker” programs that provide a legal framework for American employers to exploit Mexican workers without giving those Mexican workers basic labor/human rights afforded to domestic workers is simply not a humane position either for Mexicans or Americans - it’s a position that creates a 21st Century brand of inhumane economic slavery for Mexicans, and embraces the ongoing efforts to drive American wages into the ground.

READ MORE http://www.controlcongress.com

On who sets the price and gets the net.
Dear "Its all about the money" loons.

If and when America, American freedoms and justice are to be sold, "We the people." will set the price, its our country, and when and if its sold we will recive the net proceeds not you and the evil money cult who now control the Republican National Committee.

Yes there are loon liberals who lie and claim there is global warming by throwing smoke at the gound to dig the trench.

On the other hand there are the ones who would put together deals to sell Dow Chem. Corp. behind the backs of the Board of Directors and the U.S.A., and to the very islmaic ones who would kill us all for not summitting faster.

Many on the sell out side of the money cult and many on the liberal loon commie side seem all to eager to make strange bed fellow with those who have the urge to kill America and American freedoms. Yes Phyllis is on our side and it makes both sides mad and upset, to bad so sad,
ITS OUR COUNTRY AND WE ARE TAKING IT BACK, IF YOU DO NOT LIKE IT, SELL YOUR OWN HOME AND MOVE TO INDIA OR CHINA OR MEXICO AND DO NOT LET THE DOOR HIT YOU WHERE YOU DO MOST OF YOUR THINKING.


hmmm
sorry but i do not agree with Miss Schlafly on this. I would say that look at what Congress and the President has passed in laws over the years to why some of these jobs leave the country. Hmm how about min wage laws and regulation laws of business which helps to encourage them to leave the country. And i don,t blame them for as some of them have shareholders to answer too. How high is the corp taxes now in the US? Hmm could be that is also helping to drive business,s out of the country. Look at europe and how some are leaving there to other lower tax countrys. and another thing does not corp,s pass on their taxes to its customers? and also lower pay for their employers.

and forget tariffs. why another tax on people? who do you think pays when countrys lay on more tariffs to goods from another country? explain that one to me conservatives. Hey i am one to who believes in "free trade".

Hey how about some econ 101 lessons over at mises.org

sparko one and rdjhoya
... have it more correct here. Even US corporations have to compete in global markets, in which their competitors are able to hire and produce in cheaper labor markets, and sell in more affluent consumer markets.

America's comparative advantages are largely no longer in skilled labor sets. Our biggest advantages are the comparative ease of starting a business in the US, and the comparatively independent attitude of the average American.

Our independent attitude allows Americans to change jobs more easily than anyone else on earth. It also enables us to decide for ourselves how hard we are willing to work, and for what objectives.

Spend some time overseas, and you will see just how unique this particular attitude is. Most modern, industrial/post-industrial economies have a network of standards (government, union, societal, in-group) for "how hard to work," and not only will you not be rewarded for working harder, you will be actively discouraged from doing so. Your options for lifestyle and financial improvement are very limited -- it's undesirable for too many people to escape the workers' paradise.

Taking individual initiative in order to stand out, excel, get ahead, win your own piece of the company, win a bonus because you benefitted everyone in it, start your OWN business -- this is an American advantage. We can't cultivate it by slipping into a European attitude of entitlement about specific jobs.

America is strong because we're always starting NEW businesses -- more than 70% of new jobs regularly come from small business. Of the five giant corporations mentioned by Schlafly, four are likely to contract significantly, be sold off and become something else, or even just close their doors over the 40-odd-year work-life of the average person. Our strength isn't in jobs with big corporations, it's in Americans' unique ability to keep expanding the economic pie through individual initiative.

For service, please punch 1
I can see the day when I go to the checkout at a Walmart and there will not be anyone at the registers. Instead, there will be a phone at each line with a number to dial for service. On the other end of the call will be a person who speaks broken English. After she repeats what she has to say three times, I finally understand her. Then, I will have to repeat everything I say three times before she understands me.

You think I'm joking? Today, our elected leaders are sending all our higher paying jobs overseas, coerced by the likes of Bill Gates. Once all the higher paying jobs have been shipped overseas and there is no more cost savings to be had from further outsourcing of these jobs, they will start on the middle paying jobs, followed by the lowest paying jobs.

As a nation, we will become dirt poor like Cuba. To most of us, that would be hell. But for socialist liberals, that is heaven.

NEOCON GLOBALIST KILLED THE GOP



Hey guys read the polls. Real conservatives have had it with you guys! You guys are selling out the Country brick by brick!


Hound Dog

Kmart tried it. It lasted about a year and they stopped doing it.

I actually liked it because there were shorter lines to check out, but there were problems with the system too, money recognition being one. Why that was a problem I do not know.

I have to think Phyllis is a little dire in her warnings here, despite the greed of Politicians and Corp Execs, the USA will get through this and future slumps because of it.

Two points
Point one, Ms Schafly, the Republicans DID win the White House without Pennsylvania in 2000 and 2004.

Second, though you decry the subsidization of wages H1-B workers from out of the country, the alternative you present IS a hidden subsidy paid for by the American consumer.

In the first place, there is no actual H1-B subsidy, that is, the government does not give additional pay to the foreign workers over and above that which they are paid by the private employer. The employer gets cheaper labor than otherwise, and passes those savings on to the American consumer, so who loses in this arrangement?

What you propose IS a subsidy paid for by the American consumer, to wit, the private employer can no longer compete in the global labor marketplace for the best value for his money, and must pay wages that are greater than the value of the work produced, thus passing on those higher production costs on to the consumer.

Go back to school and get an education in basic economics before you lecture about losses to our nation.

Pappy Michael
I think there were other reasons for the shorter lines at Kmart. It all started about ten years ago when management for some unknown reason decided to market to the lefties. You remember days after the Columbine incident, Kmart placed a moratorium on the sale of firearm and ammunition. Will someone tell me what that was all about? Kmart was the number one retailer of long guns at the time. If that decision wasn't crazy enough, they eventually eliminated firearm and ammunition sales at all their stores. The core of Kmart's success had been middle America, you know the truck drivers, mailman, hunters, etc. With one stupid management decision, middle America quit shopping there forever.

Fair Tax

Jobs are leaving this country for two reasons, bureaucracy and taxes. The more politicians try to fix both the worse they make it. The Fair Tax would fix both problems and bring thousands, if not millions of jobs back to our country. But then our "leaders" will lose their power and we all know they will never let that happen. We are doomed.

It isn't free trade
Quote:RDJHOYA wrote:

What the Globalists call "Free Trade" is not normal or natural.....it is not "Free" either because it is managed down to the finest detail. The management companies like the EUR,NAFTA,CAFTA
and liberty informed me the other day there is one for Korea....Krotus? Something like that and of course China itself is a managed market...You don't see Mom and Pop competition....it is Monopoly......like the early 1900's .....these Corporations are so powerful they are almost like governments themselves.
===================

True. The “agreements” are more like treaties that surrender sovereignty because we set up international bodies that tell us when we are “fair” or not in the trades.

Free trade is where we are "free" to trade with whoever we like, however we like and cut it off anytime we don't like it. We are now locked into multi-nation agreements that let people in foreign nations tell us what "good trade" is for the American worker.

However, our biggest problem now, with Asia, especially, but also OPEC is that they are our bankers. We owe them so much money, they call the tune in various ways. We are afraid to do anything to their trade with us because they control our purse strings.

Also, it used to be it was easier to start a business here. That also is no longer true and in the last few years business have started shunning us and going with London and Hong Kong. Hong Kong is now ranked number one in economic free trade. The U.S.? Its 4th behind H.K. and Australia and Singapore.

We are seeing fewer IPOs here and fewer listings because of regulation and taxes. Countries all around the globe are lowering taxes on business because they know that increasing jobs increases tax revenues from workers who get higher wages due to labor shortages more business creates. Of course, they also control immigration numbers too.

Really. If you were a business competing internationally and could choose between a low tax nation that let you keep more of the profits or the U.S. and its 42% state and fed tax (many are below 20% now or just over 20% compared to us), who would you choose. Our crime rates are rising in some of our major cities. Look at what is going on in Dubai, Singapore, Hong Kong, etc. where infrastructure is new, night life great, buying power higher than ours, privatized social security, lower healthcare costs, stress on education, and in some cases, very tough police powers that enforce the laws on business and individuals. Which would you choose if you wanted to give your shareholders the most return on their investment?

Our infrastructure is crumbling while they are building up theirs. Business needs good roads, rail and airports and ours are all in decay. Business has to have a good consumer base and they are growing theirs much faster than ours which is spending mostly on borrowed money and likely to have a downturn. They are demanding workers learn new skills and funding education with high standards. China and India, while not quite up to our “engineering standards” are still graduating 700,000 together that can be used a “junior engineers” under the supervision of experience engineers. Much of the mundane day to day work by engineers can be done with little supervision. Our colleges are filled with foreign students leaning from “the best” but taking those skills back to their countries and getting jobs that are paying more and more each year.

Now that a business can locate anywhere in the world and have a huge consumer base, what is so great about here? They can have more workers, new factories, lower taxes, less regulation (but tougher compliance with that regulation) and lower costs in all aspects of manufacturing.

It won’t be long and the U.S. will be replaced by China in GDP ranking based on buying power (PPP). While they have only a fraction of the total population out of poverty, that fraction is larger than our population and they are buying luxury items, cars, computers, furniture, homes, cell phones, hair transplants, etc. Here, we are buying less and less each decade. It now take both in a marriage working to buy what one worker could buy in the 1950’s Seniors are seeing social security checks shrink each year in buying power. Our currency has seen the Euro rise 63% against as the dollar falls in value.

So, again, what is so great about having a business in the U.S. Our standard of living is falling rapidly while other nations are seeing theirs rapidly rise and if you are “well off” like a manager, or owner, or CEO, or investor, or retiree, why not go where things are getting better seems to be the view of many.

Neither party is leading us away from that trend of business, wealth and people leaving the U.S. for “greener pastures.” The people are still led to believe everything is terrible overseas for workers and living conditions. Yet, it is our living conditions that are in decline. It is our economy that can’t keep up. It is our taxes that can’t compete. It is our education standards that are falling. It is our buying power that is in decline.

We are still the best, but rapidly fading and Congress is doing nothing that will stop that trend. As Bernanke says, “we are in a calm before a storm,” and it is a huge storm that America hasn’t seen since the great depression if we don’t reform entitlements and how we fund our government, maintain our infrastructure and attract, not drive away business.

"outsourcing jobs"
As a Christian, all of my life I have heard, and been moved by, speakers describing the terrible poverty in the rest of the world. I have responded with some generousity (not nearly enough) without ever knowing if I was doing anything real to help. In recent years, I am now reading, employers in the US are radically improving the income disparity between us and 3rd-world nations, by exporting jobs. Frankly, that is much more effective than individual giving or foreign aid. Again, the left is 100% wrong. Selfish industrialists are improving the lot of the world's poor just as they improved the lot of America's formerly poor more than the schemes of the socialists. Again, as always, the change that this entails brings some pain to some people and if I were one of them I would complain. (Although when I was cut from the Army after Desert Storm as part of the "peace dividend," I looked at it philosophically even at the time, through a year of unemployment) I believe, although I am not a good enough economist to understand how, America, if it hold fast to its Christian ideals will have no reason to fear a more prosperous and equalitarian world.

Career advisor: avoid computer skills
Recently, perhaps last autumn, as college students were enrolling in courses, I saw the usual t.v. clips of "career advisors" opining about what careers college kids should prepare for.

What I heard floored me...

With a voice that rang true with seriousness and conviction, this respected "career advisor" told the camera that

"students should avoid studying anything that can be done by computer, because those jobs can easily by shipped overseas . . ."

Isn't that a fascinating turn of events.

O.K. kids, forget math, science, computer engineering, accounting, medical diagnosis of x-rays and MRI's, architecture, etc., etc.

People, globalism is not democracy.

You have no vote in other nations. Because to the globalists, you barely have a nation in the U.S.A., vote America first.

I humbly suggest researching this candidate's website - he beleives in being America First. He has the facts on bad trade, especialy what China is doing to hurt us.

http://www.goHunter08.com
12 term California Congressman Duncan Hunter.
Army Ranger, Bronze Star, highly respected Chairman of House Armed Forces Committee, easily re-elected by his district each time, farmer, attorney, family man. A decent man for troubled times.

Remember 1776.

Adopt the FairTax
This is an interesting issue, but far and away the best thing we could possibly do for job creation and wealth creation in the United States is to adopt the FairTax. All those jobs would come back.

America would regain it's place as the world's manufacturing juggernaut. America would regain it's place as the world's high tech giant. And America would regain it's title as the best place in the world to do business.

No more filing tax returns. No more tax accountants and tax lawyers. Drug dealers and criminals have to pay taxes.

Did I mention that everybody gets to keep 100% of their paycheck? Support the FairTax.

http://freedomistheanswer.blogspot.com/

Of Note:
From the responses here seems members of the sell America crowd are getting a little twitchey and do protest somewhat more than they should.

Good work Phyllis, you hit a nerve.

That's Nativism
Yes, it's another "ism", but if we take the best in the world to work in our corporations, we'll be getting the best possible end product. Many of the people who want H-1B visas want them not because they want to steal American jobs but because they want to BE Americans with American jobs. If there's one thing you can't complain about, it's an influx of very educated immigrants, raising the level of this country. With so many unskilled and illegal laborers from Mexico, we might be able to talk about social degradation because they're poor, but this is a program to allow the world's elite to become part of America's elite. If that takes away eliteness slots from Americans who were already here, who cares? If the new elites become Americans, then there's no difference. Discriminating against them is just nativism.

Liberal Protectionism
is what Phyllis advocates. Countryman makes a good point, H-1B is not a subsidy because the government doesn't pay out or control higher wages as Phyllis would with her protectionist ideas. Friedman may have called it a subsidy but would readily admit the diversity of ideas brought in would increase scientific knowledge and technical creativity, the source of wealth. Friedman would not agree with the collectivist notion merry_go_boy, like Phyllis, advocates: "governments job to insure there is a level playing field".

A better solution would be what the Heritage Foundation suggests based on the Annual Index of Economic Freedom, reform the tax laws to make America once more a country that attracts business. That will create the jobs Phyllis and others think are being stolen.

"Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself." --
Milton Friedman

Check the Per Capita GDP stats...
Mexico is around $6,369.85 PER YEAR!!!!!
China is around $1,262.59 PER YEAR!!!!!
India is around $640.47 PER YEAR!!
The United States is around $40,000 per year.

There's your competition. Unless/until you are willing/able to live on $600 to $6,300 per year, you will NEVER be able to compete with a worker from India, China or Mexico.

Oh yeah, there are well over 2 BILLION Indians and Chinese, to our 300 million Americans. Any economists want to run these numbers through the laws of supply and demand?

BTW, does anyone REALLY believe that these corporations are passing their labor savings on the the consumers??? If you do, you totally don't understand the purpose of business and outsourcing!!!!!


it's the lawyers too

perhaps the fact that America is the most litigious nation in the world might explain why many companies prefer to outsource as much as possible

The problem is....
The problem is what is the solution? Pat Buchanan claims to have a solution: just shut our borders tight, and prohibit any and all international trade. That would work fine...if we want to look like North Korea.

In an international market, there is competition for prices. I'm sure if everyone in the US would take a 30% pay cut, corporations would be HAPPY to give them whatever job they wanted. Very few -- myself included -- are not willing to do that.

The question remains what are we to do? The ONLY way we can expect to keep wages where they are, yet keep the jobs as well is to make sure every other nation out there with skilled labor has wages just as high. And the only way to do that is to lift their economies up -- which, incidentally, all this "outsourcing" is doing just that. This "outsourcing" problem is only a temporary one -- one that will vanish altogether when India, China, and the rest are as strong, economically, as the USA. Let's just hope that happens before all the jobs here are lost.

Bill Gates goal-A trillionaire
How is it that some here continue to ignore the obvious? They think that even though millions of jobs are sent overseas and those remaining are filled by foreign invaders that American jobs will still survive.......How stupid can people be....???
Why do you think those at the top get richer and richer and richer and those at the bottom get poorer and poorer....Bill Gates wants an unlimited supply of cheap foreign labor allowed into the country...why? Because having Billions isn't enough, he wants to have Trillions. His charity work is a joke whilst he continues to give his middle finger to middle America. The system he created was supposed to make life easier for Americans....instead it will bring about the demise of this country.

Outsourcing is a lie
Don't fall for the propaganda. Funny how the Big Government conservatives and the Big Government liberals use the same jargon. As technology and productivity improve, fewer manufacturing jobs are needed, period. The same thing happened with agricultural jobs in the first half of the 20th century.

Jobs and percent of GDP
It is true the due to technology, fewer workers are needed for many manufacturing jobs.

However, it is manufacturing itself that is falling, not just the jobs in it.

Manufacturing as a percent of GDP is rising in every industrialized nation our jobs are flowing to. Manufacturing here has fallen from 30.4% in the 50's to under 15% today. Jobs, of course, fell faster but, it is the flow of businesses out of the U.S. that is troubling.

It isn't just the U.S. however, many industrialized nations with high tax on business are seeing the businesses go to Poland, Estonia, China, Korea, Ireland, etc. Now that much of the world is raising education standards, lowering business taxes, increasing standards of living, increasing the consumer base, etc. you will see business go where the do the best and are allowed to keep more profits.

Regarding the "low wage" nations being the only reason. B.S.

Many businesses are going to Ireland where the ave. manufacturing wage is higher than ours. 25% of U.S. investment money going to Europe when to Ireland because they have a 12.5% tax on corporate income instead of our 42% ave. state and fed tax rate.

Also, in the low wage nations, trying to use GDP per capita is misleading too. A Chinese worker in a GM plant in China makes $2 an hour while his rural counterpart only makes 29 cents. But, that GM worker also has 4 times the buying power and lives better than a $10 an hour worker here.

His home was given him so he has no house payment unless he is part of the housing boom where Chinese are selling their old 100 sq ft. home and buying new 1,000 sq. ft. homes. He has no car or car payment. No gasoline purchases and he saves 25% of what he makes. Yet, middle class in China is growing about 50 million a year and already have about as many as we do, leaving 1.2 billion still to rise but they are doing it while our middle-class shrink due to neither party leading us in the right direction.

You can have high wages and still compete and Ireland has proved it but, their system of government consisted of a total reform in how they treated business. They left taxes high on the workers and cut taxes on business profits to create labor shortages raising wages each year. The Irish worker's wages rose 300% while our rose 79% over a 20 year period until they are now higher than ours after being only 1/2 ours to start with.

90% of all computers sold in Europe are from Ireland. Ireland is one of the leading nations in pharmaceutical companies. The per-captia wealth of Ireland has passed the U.S. using comparative purchasing power
http://www.photius.com/rankings/economy/gdp_per_capita_2007_0.html

We are now 9th in per-capita wealth when you figure in what you can buy with it. Hong Kong is 14th and their average wage of just over $5 means that with their 4 times buying power, they are making over $20 an hour on average in manufacturing.

Actually, it isn't that they have so much more buying power. It is that we have so much less. When you look at CPI, you see that we pay 1,920% more for goods now than we did in 1913 when we began the federal reserve system, enacted the 16th amendment and started our journey done this wrong road.

What good is $100,000 per capita wealth when you can't buy what a $25,000 worker can buy in another nation? Our dollar is dropping in value every day, even to the Chinese currency. The euro has risen 63% to the dollar in just 7 years. That means we have to pay 63% more for any item made in Europe because our dollar is going down.

Protectionist whining
To those who whine about jobs going here, jobs going there, wah wah wah:

If you want to keep your job, do it better. If you can't do it better, do it cheaper. If you can't do either, then starve. Who owes you anything?

If I run a business, I want the best employees for as cheap as I can get them. Why should I have to settle for less? So you can live a more cushy life at my expense?

I keep my job because I'm good at it. I'll advance because I'll work harder than the guy in front of me. If I work harder than him, should I not get his job? Or should he be protected?

Being born in this country is a tremendous blessing, but it is NOT--and should not be--a guaranteed god[bleep]ed meal ticket. You protectionists sound like god[bleep]ed nanny-state Liberals.

Stop whining and go to work. Or starve.

Free trade with unfree countries
Advocates of free trade are right that free trade between two nations can be a "win-win deal" for both nations. But in practice, it's a win-win deal ONLY IF the other nation is a democratic capitalist nation like the U.S. When the U.S. trades with UNFREE countries, it's not good for the U.S.

And that isn't a new problem.

Industrialists like Armand Hammer who rushed to make business deals with the USSR ended up only helping the USSR. Because the USSR was a hostile command economy.

Today, any U.S. corporation that tried to do business with Iran is helping Iran, not America. Because Iran is a hostile theocracy.

Even democratic countries can't resist the urge to distort the free global market with their own economic controls. Boeing must compete on the world market with Airbus, which is heavily subsidized by the French government. So Boeing is essentially competing not just with Airbus but with France itself. China is known to keep its currency artificially low. This makes its goods cheaper than they would be if the Chinese yuan floated up to its true level.

And as Ms. Schlafly points out, instead of the U.S. fighting aggressively to get our trading partners to remove these kinds of subsidies and controls, we simply impose our own, like H-1b visas and increased tariffs on imported sugar.

Which makes no sense. It would be like saying that because the USSR had been practicing communism, we should practice it too.

In such a heavily subsidized, distorted, world market, it's hard to see whether anyone is being benefited more by free trade or by being politically well-connected.

for Rockman
Rockman writes: "Mexico is around $6,369.85 PER YEAR!!!!!
China is around $1,262.59 PER YEAR!!!!! India is around $640.47 PER YEAR!! The United States is around $40,000 per year. There's your competition."

No, that's not how a free market in the world would work.

As goods can be provided overseas more cheaply than in the U.S., the demand for foreign goods would increase--and sure enough, it has. But then, the increased demand for foreign goods would drive up the value of the foreign currencies, because those producers want to be paid in their own currency, which has to be converted from U.S. dollars.

In other words, the inequity between the cost of overseas goods and U.S. produced goods would result in a devaluation of the dollar relative to other currencies. Until the dollar became cheap enough that the wages of a U.S. worker in dollars are roughly equivalent to the wages of a foreign worker denoted in foreign currency.

The reason this has not happened in practice is due to the fact that the U.S. dollar is still the de facto world standard currency, DESPITE the fact that the U.S. has been off the gold standard for a long time.

There is an artificial demand for U.S. dollars in the world that goes way beyond what one would expect from free trade.

I believe that "dollar premium" is entirely due to the U.S. pre-eminence as the world's military superpower. Despite all the rhetoric from Europe, China, etc., nobody except the Islamists truly want to see America destroyed. The rest of the world knows that the next time there's a tsunami or they detect a big meteorite about to collide with Earth and kill a billion people, only America will be there to answer the call to fix it.
Nobody else.

The U.S. dollar is therefore overvalued for the same reason the British pound sterling was overvalued in the 19th century--it's a perk that comes with being the world's dominant empire.

So all the isolationists like Pat Buchanan who think the U.S. should just withdraw from the world should think about that: The day America stops being the world superpower, the U.S. dollar will start shrinking just like the British pound did after the 19th century. Because nobody is going to need us anymore.

And when (not if) OPEC announces that henceforth they want to be paid for their oil in euros rather than dollars, that will truly be the end of the United States.

Unless we go back on the gold standard.

You keep talking about
"competing in the global marketplace". What is the #1 market for consumer goods, in spite of China's growth? That's US, the U.S. consumer. Those corporations that are competing globally are competing for our dollars. If we were to keep our technology here, manufacture our goods here, and let the communists and near communists go to hell, what they can produce (which won't be much w/o our tech and training) and at what price will not matter at all.

China's prospering, and we're paying for it. Iraq is becoming free, and we're paying for it. I'm done being the benefactor nation of humanity.

Tariffs are taxes.
Consumers pay these taxes. Tariffs are also the government meddling in the free market. Someone above posted per capita incomes of other countries, and suggested that this was our competition. Not so. If you look across the world, workers are paid basically on how productive they are. Your "competition" is only a $6000/year person from another country if your output is only worth $6000/year.

As to the "tide" of manufacturing jobs going overseas, it just isn't so. There are fewer manufacturing jobs in the world today than there were 50 years ago, due to increases in productivity and technology.

As far as making the United States more competitive for business, the answer to that is not MORE government regulation and taxation, it is LESS. Lower trade barriers, and we get more choices of more goods at more competitive prices. I trust the free market, not Big Government to decide.

Not Government's Job
It is not the government's job to 'level' the playing field. That would happen naturally if the government had stayed out in the first place.

It's too late to change what is. Work on the future if you truly think you can have an impact. Personally, I doubt it. However, you need a plan. I have not heard one yet. If you wait for a politician or talking radio/TV head to suggest one you will definitely get the short straw.

The horse is already out of the barn...
If the government wouldn't have made it so expensive to employee Americans and to manufacture goods within our borders by well-intentioned but foolish regulations, then we could be a whole lot more competitive. Our productivity can only make up for so much when so many laws make it unattractive to keep the work here.

John Galt: you just don't get it!
John Galt writes:
"Someone above posted per capita incomes of other countries, and suggested that this was our competition. Not so. If you look across the world, workers are paid basically on how productive they are."

It's a negotiation. They are paid based on what it costs them to live, since they can't work for less than that. Yes, as they get more education/skills, then they can demand more. But it still comes down to the cost of living FOR THEIR ECONOMY!!!!

What the globalist are doing is taking advantage of the wealth they've generated here in America, and using that wealth to purchase labor from economies of a FAR lower scale. They can't hire workers in America at $2 per day because no American can work for that and survive in this economy. But they can go to China and hire someone at that rate because in their economy, they can live on that.

And please don't give me the line that they pass the savings on to us. They don't. They pocket the lions share and only drop the prices as much as they have to to stay competetive.

"Your "competition" is only a $6000/year person from another country if your output is only worth $6000/year."

WRONG!! I have to be as productive as SEVEN workers from that country in order to be competetive! Because the company can hire SEVEN of them for the cost of ONE American. And since there are a whole lot more of THEM than US, it's a much greater supply of labor.

You always hear of people in America saying, "Oh, I can move to Mexico (or other country with a smaller economy) and live like a king. Why is that? Because in our economy, we MUST generate huge amounts of money in order to survive. But if we take those dollars from here and go to other countries, our money goes further. The corporations are taking their money, and using it to purchase labor for what we would consider slave wages here in the states.

These are NOT free trade agreements
They are managed trade agreements. With the added detriment of establishing a ruling body, the WTO, that sits on top of our own Congress, legislating trade. This is not free trade.

Many of you are probably familiar with the Mises Institute. As you know, they have always advocated free enterprise and true free trade. As such, they stand firmly against NAFTA, CAFTA, OMAN, etc.

Take a look:
http://www.googlesyndicatedsearch.com/u/Mises?hl=en&submit.x=0&submit.y=0&q=nafta

Free trade does not equate to NAFTA
Excerpt from,
"Why Protectionism Sells" by James Sheehan

"Free trade has an even more conspicuous killer in the Nafta and Gatt treaties. Though advertised as free trade, Nafta set up supranational boards, expanded bad laws to the entire region, gave billions in direct subsidies to Mexico, benefited government-connected big businesses and hurt small and medium-size firms, and linked the dollar to the peso via a "stabilization" fund, thus foreordaining the bailout of Mexico.

The Gatt treaty created a Keynes-inspired, Geneva-based World Trade Organization. Here was a trade deal that was openly touted, along with the IMF and the World Bank, as the third pillar of the New World Order. It had a Secretariat, a General Council, a Ministerial Conference, dozens of committees and councils, and dispute settlement bodies. Signers had to vow to pursue Keynesian fiscal and ILO-style labor policies.

Every statist from Wilson to Carter had tried to create a world trade tribunal, but none had succeeded. We were better off for it. In the post-war era trade was becoming freer, tariffs lower, and the international economy less and less regulated by governments. Protectionism and tariffs were a problem, but increasingly less so.

But the entire establishment united in favor of Nafta and Gatt, as it does for most increases in government power. Even worse, the establishment used the Big Lie technique and stole the moral and economic credibility of "free trade" to do it. Leading the parade was the Nafta Network and the Gang of Gatt: think tanks, newspapers, magazines, academics, and even Rush Limbaugh.

Working alone, principled libertarians exposed these depredations, including the Mexican bailout, in an effort to save the ideal of free trade from corruption. But against the will of the American people, both treaties were slipped through Congress and signed by Bill Clinton.

Both treaties have been a disaster, and every one of the rosy economic forecasts has proven wrong. Experienced businessmen tell stories of mountains of paperwork and having to attend classes to plow through new regulations. There are new fines, fees, waiting lists, quotas, and every other kind of roadblock. These treaties didn't make trade freer--and even if they had, it would have been the wrong means to a worthy end--but only increased government oppression of enterprise.

The backlash has arrived at last. Thanks to those who gave managed trade a free-trade cover, the target of public hatred has been the classical ideal of a global free market. Politicians in both parties are seeking to reimpose a system of trade restriction, against the rights of consumers and producers.

All this is dangerous for our liberty and prosperity. Trade restrictions, Ludwig von Mises argued in "Autarky and its Consequences" (1943), are the fulfillment of domestic economic intervention. When governments destroy prosperity, there are always politicians--FDR comes to mind--willing to take the fast track to economic stimulus, the long term be damned.

But as Stuart Chase, the New Dealer who coined the term, said, "National planning and economic nationalism must go together." He favored both, just as believers in free enterprise must reject both. The free market at home and abroad is not an option, but an indispensable basis for prosperity and peace, and the uncompromised policy of any truly civilized nation. "

http://www.mises.org/freemarket_detail.asp?control=177&sortorder=articledate

Oops
Wrong article credited. The name of the article is "Who Killed Free Trade" by Llewellyn H. Rockwell, Jr.

http://www.mises.org/freemarket_detail.asp?control=189&sortorder=articledate

Mark
This has nothing to do with free trade. It has everything to do with price fixing. Does anyone here actually work in a technical field. I'm not sensing great deal of understanding of what has been happening. I have been downsized, re-engineered, outsourced, off-shored and required to work with off-shore technical support which is barely competent. Senior Management is willing to sacrafice productivity, efficiency and an effective software solution for price. The fact that the delivered cost of software may actually be higher is not the issue.
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