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Monday, December 18, 2006
Phyllis Schlafly :: Townhall.com Columnist
Tech industry has ulterior motive regarding H-1B visas
by Phyllis Schlafly
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The technology industry has dispatched its fat-wallet lobbyists to demand that the new Congress vastly increase the number of foreign computer software techies and engineers who can be imported on H-1B visas. This demand is based on the claim that we suffer a labor shortage in those fields, but that's a bare-faced lie to erect a smoke screen around the real reasons.

Three reasons motivate the tech giants to use their political clout and political action committee contributions to increase H-1Bs:

1. Cost-cutting: H-1B visa holders are paid much less than Americans.

2. The influx of H-1B visa holders depresses the "prevailing wage" for all computer techies and engineers.

3. The hiring of H-1B visa holders prevents potential competition from Americans who might choose to work for other firms or start companies of their own.

H-1B visas are not for entrepreneurs or executives. They are for employees who are tied to the company that imports them, much like indentured servants, and are supposed to depart from the United States after a few years. A technology industry coalition called Compete America gathered at Stanford University in November for a TechNet Innovation Summit, but the goal wasn't innovation. This coalition, backed by Microsoft, Intel and other computer giants, has sent a letter to every member of Congress calling for more H-1B visas so businesses can import Indian, Pakistani and Chinese engineers to fill U.S. jobs.

H-1B visa holders cut industry costs but do nothing to improve innovation. Most innovators are Americans, and the successful immigrant entrepreneurs the industry brags about did not come here as guest workers on H-1B visas, but entered as children and were educated in U.S. universities.

Current law allows industry to import 85,000 workers with H-1B visas a year, but industry lobbyists seek to double or triple that number. They would really like the Cornyn-Shadegg SKIL Bill - known to engineers as the Kill Bill - which could import 1.5 million underpaid workers with H-1B visas by 2013.

The computer giants have thrown down the gauntlet: If Congress doesn't provide more H-1Bs visas, they will outsource jobs. "Outsourcing is the perfect argument for increasing the numbers" of H-1Bs, said a Compete America representative.

But if it's really better to outsource, there is no need for H-1Bs. Nobel economist Milton Friedman labeled H-1B visas a government "subsidy" to enable employers to get workers at a lower wage.

The United States has more than enough engineers. After the dot-com bust in 2000, California's Silicon Valley lost about 100,000 engineering jobs. Many of those who lost jobs remain unemployed, underemployed or have taken jobs in other industries.

Research by professor Norman Matloff of the University of California Davis confirms that there is no shortage of U.S. engineers or computer techies. If there were a shortage, salaries would be going up, but starting salaries for bachelor's degree graduates in computer science and electrical engineering, adjusted for inflation, are flat or falling.

A study by the Pratt School of Engineering at Duke University also found that there is no shortage of U.S. engineers. Eighty percent of respondents to a Pratt survey say U.S. engineering jobs are filled within four months, and 88 percent didn't offer signing bonuses.

Many companies hire student engineers from India and China with only two or three years of college and then train them in their own facilities. U.S. students with two or three years of college get no job offers.

Much of the Compete America discussion involved blaming the U.S. educational system and the fact that fewer U.S. students are going into math and computer sciences. Yes, U.S. students have figured out that our engineers have a bleak employment future because of insourcing foreigners and outsourcing manufacturing.

The Compete America globalists are not interested in preserving America as the greatest nation and economy in the world, or in protecting American industry or jobs or universities or national security. They rejoice in economic redistribution from rich and prosperous nations to other countries around the world.

Microsoft founder Bill Gates spoke for the globalists: "The United States has been spoiled by being a global leader for so long that there may be an adjustment. We've got to get used to the fact that our relative share of everything - our ability to exercise unilateral decision-making, military power and economic power - won't be as out of line with our 5 percent share of world population as it is today."

Anyone who rejoices that the United States is losing its pre-eminence and distributing our wealth around the rest of the world must have lost all appreciation for the Yankee ingenuity essential to our prosperity. H-1B visas are a form of servitude that offends the free enterprise that made the United States the economic world leader.

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About The Author

Phyllis Schlafly is a national leader of the pro-family movement, a nationally syndicated columnist and author of Feminist Fantasies.
 
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Free Market Capitalism
Oh no! The technology industry is guilty of free market capitalism! The horror!

The world would be a better place (and America would benefit) if more people were guilty of such a heinous crime.

Phyllis
You know as much about economics as I do about "Feminist Fantasies." Your previous column was a source of disappointment.... this?

Phyllis, I will put this as gently as I can. You are losing your credibility every time you venture into comment in the economic arena. I am surprised that you would pen this, as a follow up to your widely and justly criticised "trade" column.

It's too late on this one, as on the last one, but I would respectfully suggest you run your economic columns by your colleagues Drs Sowell and Williams before posting. You are beginning to sound like a populist Democrat who knows nothing of the benefits of trade and free markets.

'Close the Door' agenda
If the H-1B visa outraged Phyllis like she claims, she would substitute the ‘Green Card,’ allowing the skilled immigrant to leave the sponsoring company for a better job.

She truly resents immigrants – legal, and illegal - and uses the H-1B's restrictive feature in a cynical ploy for resentment of tech-firms.

Her agenda is 'Close the Door,' and she doesn't care if employers leave the country, taking their high skill, and support jobs with them.

The Canadians are invading!!
Ms. Schlafly, this article is unworthy of Townhall.com. Let me expound.

(1) "H-1B visa holders are paid much less than Americans". No, we're not. It's actually illegal to pay an H-1B holder any less than the wage that would be paid to an American holding the same position. The company has to present evidence that they are in compliance before they can make the hire.

(2) "The influx of H-1B visa holders depresses the "prevailing wage" for all computer techies and engineers." See point (1).

(3) "The hiring of H-1B visa holders prevents potential competition from Americans who might choose to work for other firms or start companies of their own."

I'm not sure what 'starting companies of their own' has to do with this, since one has to be hired by an employer in order to hold an H-1B visa. But regarding potential competition, it's illegal for the company to hire an H-1B applicant when there is an American available. The company is legally required to post the position and wait for Americans to apply. Before hiring a non-US citizen they have to make the case to immigration authorites that they couldn't find an American suitable for the job. If you've worked in high tech, you know why this is not unlikely. Good engineers are hard to find.

(4) "H-1B visas... are for employees who are tied to the company that imports them, much like indentured servants".
Um, no. Our visa is only valid for one company, but if another company chooses to hire us and goes through all the legal hoops, we can get a visa with them instead. I've done it.

(5) "Most innovators are Americans, and the successful immigrant entrepreneurs the industry brags about did not come here as guest workers on H-1B visas, but entered as children and were educated in U.S. universities."

Just to illustrate for you: working in my lab today there was the lab manager (British), an engineer from India, another from China, and two of us from Canada. We're all innovative, and at least one of us is famous for being innovative.

America is a great country, but there are excellent universities around the world and people are graduating from them every year. As long as free competition is allowed, two things will continue: (a) everyone will be inclined to work harder, because otherwise there are hard-working foreigners who will compete like hell, and (b) research will proceed by leaps and bounds.

What you should be concerned about is (b), for if America shuts her doors to the young minds graduating around the world, she puts herself at an unnecessary disadvantage. It behooves America to stay at the forefront of technology; she falters at her peril.

Non-Engineers just don't get it
Ms. Schlafly has hit the nail on the head!

H-1B Visas have one purpose and one purpose only - to suppress the wages of american workers. I am a software engineer who worked for a firm that decided to lay-off their american staff in favor of H1-Bs. From the moment the decision was made, no one dared go down to their supervisor and ask for a raise. All the employer had to do anytime someone had a complaint was glance down the cubicle-row to the H1-Bs. The hint that "you could be next" was VERY clear. I've been able to stay in the field, but I've been lucky. And no, these people don't get paid anywhere near what their american counterparts pulled in.

The Ivy-League Eggheads who fiddle with statistics and wind up with Bill Gates being on the same level as Mother Theresa need to have some H1-B consultants brought in to threaten their tenured positions. Maybe then we'll get a change of attitude from the idealistic economists. Perhaps a few H1-Bs in the journalism field would help, too. People who don't have theirs jobs threatened by these issues just don't get it.

And by the way - I was born in the U.S. and I married an immigrant; one who stood in line and followed the rules to become a citizen. I like immigration (legal) very much, thank you. Can we please stop the condescending rhetoric that makes everyone who challenges illegal immigration and increases in H1-B consulting out to be stupid rednecks?

Someguy
Naturally, being directly effected, you wouldnt welcome an increase in competition from any source. Nobody claimed there would be NO losers.

However, going against the PRINCIPLE of trade and exchange is highly problematic from a macro viewpoint which has nothing whatsoever to do with "idealistic economists" but everything to do with "realistic economists."

I'm sure your salary package is still WAY above the minimum wage.

grad student, on the nail
But you missed partly on point 4 "...much like indentured servants, AND ARE SUPPOSED TO DEPART THE UNITED STATES AFTER A FEW YEARS". In fact, the H1-b is a dual-intent-allowed visa; many immigrants (some of whom have been naturalised) have entered on H1-b.

Ms. Schlafly, you missed completely on this one--you should have consulted with immigration attorneys such as Ron Gotcher or Jim Eiss (who also worked as an INS inspector prior to being an attorney) before writing this article!

Where are Americans?
My son now is in 8th grade. He participates in all possible math Olympiads – MathCounts, AMC, etc. Recently he was invited to the Bergen County (NJ) math competition. There were about 400 children – and 99% of them Asian (Chinese, Korean, Indian, etc.). His school provides buses for sports team, but not for math team. So, we, the parents, have organized the school’s MathCounts team – it is training in our house on Sat. All children are American–born but they are children of immigrants -- 1 Russian, 1 Armenian and 3 Chineese. Where are children of Americans? They can not attend, because they are too busy with sports -- playing basketball and soccer. What are the consequences? I used to work for one of US National Laboratories. Most of the scientists and a lot of engineers were foreigners, a lot of them on different visas (including me). Now I work as a computer programmer in private sector. In most IT departments I’ve seen computer programmers are foreigners – Chinese, Indians, Russians, some Europeans – British, French, etc. Where are Americans? I don’t know. Maybe the fact that they were not interested in Math in school contributed. To compensate for that, America is blessed with immigration of top talent from other countries. They sometimes whine about “brain drain”, but their loss is our (US) gain, and to be unhappy about it is just plain strange, at least.

JimmyJoe
I was thinking of writing a P.S. to my previous post because I was afraid that someone would make that kind of a comment.

Look, we don't have room here for the whole business of what outsourcing is doing to america and why many companies are figuring out that outsourcing doesn't work as well as they thought. I am not troubled at the idea that someone anywhere wants to do what I do for less. No american company should be a welfare institution for people who don't want to compete. I'm not asking for protectionism. I'm just asking that the U.S. government not subsidize people who compete with me, and Ms. Schlafly has correctly pointed out that this is what the H1-B program amounts to, along with other U.S. policies. If companies want to go overseas and start offices over there, let them! Those offices rarely produce the quality of in-house american staff, and one-by one, american companies are figuring this out.

The problem with the H1-Bs is that they appear to be limited to certain business areas. Is there not a person over in India who runs a company that would be willing to come over here for much less than your CEO? Maybe he'd be willing to come over without the same level of salary and stock options? For some reason, certain jobs don't get outsourced. Capitalism is NOT being evenly applied here.

Someguy
I appreciate that this topic means a lot to you, being directly effected. I agree with you regarding the question of "outsourcing". Didnt prove to be such a saving after the hype died down. But that was a predictable outcome.

Nor did it prove to be such a massive job-killer either, as reports would suggest it would be. By comparison the the natural churning of jobs - the "creative destruction of capitalism" (!!) jobs lost abroad are negligable. Stuff still has to be done at home. Additionally, there are quality issues, as you stated, far outweighing any false savings in the form of lower wages.

As for what gets outsourced or not... fair comment! Its always the little guy who gets it in the neck!

Wage Slaves and who buys them?
There are some posters here who were paid by the evil money cult to post here. There are some here who do not care at what wage level the ones in China and India settle on some years from now.

The big lie about the H-1B visas being good for America hangs itself on the future wage levels these new slave masters lust for. Its all about the earnings reports and the stock options the ones who run the big corps must have to keep up with their Lexus payments.

In fact without Public Accounting Firms cooking the books along with these skanks the house of cards would fold now, but they lurch onward to the abyss with nothing in their heads but next quarters results in mind.

From these high tech ones to the code welders faked into the trade by the crooked union boss's who hand out fake "union books" to allow the coyote union officals to sneek the illegals into the high pressure interstate pipe line welding, down to the illegal mowing these skanks 20 ac. lawns for the "low bid" contract that may pay as low a $1.00 per hr. the fraud goes on.

This evil thing now has the American Congress
and Senate as well as these Company owners becomeing "coyote" aka a low class thing that knows no limits on what or how it eats others food. The food they now lust for is the food and clothing off the backs of the great grandchildren who will look back in disgust and say , how did they ever get so low, in fact why did not more people speak up sooner as Ms Schafley did.

If it works for slave wages, and it lives like a slave, and it has slave masters, ITS A SLAVE.

ON TO OUTSOURCEING OR MOVING OVERSEAS
Dear Bill Gates,

Do not let the door hit your but on the way out the door. Hope the mad mullas do allow you to run you " high tech sweat shop" in their shadow and hope your underlings who move with you over there like the 5 hr drive each way to the safe spots high on the near by mountains were you will all have to live to be safe. For you see there you will not have the sons and daughters of your current workers who are the Marines and Army grunts who fight to make it so easy for you.

Good bye
Mr. Greed,
oops Bill

H1B Vs. Outsourcing
Please folks. Let's be realistic. As an executive, I'm faced with creating products that have to compete with those made in India and China, on price. Labor cost is simply another piece of the cost of creating that product, and if all the other products are made with labor cheaper than my own, I have a big problem. People are going to be buying products other than my own, unless I can find something to compete on other than price. When US workers become cost competitive, unfortunately, they can't afford to live in the US. So, H1B is compelling as a way to pressure labor costs components lower, to avoid total outsourcing. Like the illegals in other industries, it's a way to insource outsourcing. However, everyone should realise, that except for us management (and we're threatened too if we have no one here to manage) that food, housing, health care and other accoutrements of American living are simply unaffordable for American employees who must be competitive with foreign workers. It's all about cost folks - and illegals, outsourcing and H1Bs are all a way to get labor at reduced costs.

taxfreekiller
taxfreekiller: "There are some posters here who were paid by the evil money cult to post here."

How do you know? The rest of your post makes very little sense.

Eg "The food they now lust for is the food and clothing off the backs of the great grandchildren who will look back in disgust and say , how did they ever get so low, in fact why did not more people speak up sooner as Ms Schafley did."

This is a nonsensical statement.

taxfreekiller
Regarding your open letter to Bill Gates... he HAS created FAR more wealth, IN America, than most.

Exec
We are all in favor of lower costs, more efficiency, a competitive environment.... to deliver to the CUSTOMER the best product, the most choice, at the least cost. Presumably this is your ultimate goal?????????

Response to grad student
> (1) "H-1B visa holders are paid much less than
> Americans".
> No, we're not. It's actually illegal to pay an
> H-1B holder any less than the wage that would be
> paid to an American holding the same position. The
> company has to present evidence that they are in
> compliance before they can make the hire.

And you think because it is illegal it is prosecuted? Hah! How many prosecutions and convictions occurred in the past 5 years for illegally low-balling H-1B's? Go find out, and you will find out that you are kidding.

Why is this a problem? Here is how it works for the MAJORITY of H-1B's (who are definitely not Canadian.)

An Indian company tells prospective Indian employees they have a great contract in the USA. (Maybe so, maybe not, often not.) They get the visa processed at US Consulates or Embassies in India (Mumbai, New Delhi, etc.) Fast. Because they do it daily.

After paperwork is processed, sucker (employee) flies to USA. They then get some mandatory training (which their salary will be docked for.) this covers air fare. Heh. Meanwhile employer is flogging employee resume to USA companies.

Assuming within 2 months they find a contract position, employee goes to work as contractor for USA company (which doesn't have to pay benefits or social security, nice). Note the H-1B is an employee of the contracting firm, NOT the USA company. And if they can't keep finding contracts, employee is terminated and shipped back to India.

USA companies are legal -- they are just contracting for contractors. But the Indian contracting company is NOT legal -- since they misrepresent things one the paperwork for the H-1B. But as I said -- they are never prosecuted. And if the employee wants to complain -- well, they are Indian -- guess they can sue in the Indian court system yuk yuk good luck.

> (2) "The influx of H-1B visa holders depresses
> the "prevailing wage" for all computer techies
> and engineers." See point (1).

Yes. See point 1. If contractors are cheaper to US companies than employees, they will hire contractors. As long as they dump them after 18 months, no sweat. And they are cheaper. Thus they do hold down US employee IT wages.

It is amazing that this is arguable.
Very simple. Why do we stand for laws that allow me to buy blankets from the tribe on this side of the mountain, BUT make it illegal for me to buy blankets from the tribe on the other side of the mountain?
Worse than that, we have people with guns who are paid BY ME to make sure that I don't buy from the wrong tribe, or invite them into my house, or let them plant my flowers, paint my house, ...or program my computer.
That anyone calling himself a Republican can think this way is amazing. Pat Buchanon makes a good point every now and then, but the moronic economics used in this discussion is so out of the colonial days that it is laughable.

We don't need no stinking foreigners.
Diversity and Multiculturalism suck. It is simply a smokescrean for invasion by foreign powers.

We certainly don't need any more Commies, Hindus or Mohammedans in the good olde USA.

Throw 'em out and keep 'em out. If you want to outsource, you go ahead, but if you build it overseas, you can sell it overseas.

God damn the foreigner man.

Death to globalist Socialism!

God bless America!

What are the "jobs of the future" now?
It seems that the high tech, clean jobs of the future that we heard about during the Clinton administration are evaporating along with the manufacturing sector jobs. Face it folks. Any workers that provide fungible services may be replaced by counterparts oversees or cheap imports. The successful Americans in the future will be the ones that ruthlessly exploit the cheap labor sources to provide services to a wealthy oligarchy. Most of our young folks will be a mercenary class that fight for global order so that multinational corporations can carry on business. It would make great Sci-Fi if it wasn't the most probable scenario. God help America!

Theory Versus Practice
I really wish that all the folks here who are in love with free trade would take off their ideological blinders and see what is really happening to real Americans. I have seen the destruction of much of the blue collar jobs in my state. They keep calling it "creative destruction" but all we see here is the destruction part. The industrial and engineering strength that won WWII is gone. First, the manual jobs were taken over by illegal invaders, or shipped overseas. Then, the back office jobs left, so that when you call tech support or your insurance carrier you get some hapless sap in Mumbai who cannot understand, much less solve your problem. Now, it is the techs and engineers who are being sacrificed on the altar of avarice. Part of being an American Patriot is to value your fellow Americans above other people. You do what you can for others, but you really ought to be looking out for your fellow Americans. Destroying their livelihoods to make a fast buck or a big bonus ought to be a criminal offense. There are good reasons why avarice is one of the Seven Deadly Sins. All of those who put it above their own people are extremely misguided. Having had to cope with a lousy state business climate, only made worse by Wall Street's greedy scheme called "Globalization" has made me understand that Buchanan and Schlafly were right all along. Comparative advantage may have made sense in the late 1700s, but it has been shown to be ruinous to most Americans now. If any jobs ought to be outsourced, it should be those of the top executives. It should be relatively easy to find arrogant, greedy sociopaths in foreign countries to replace the overpaid ones we have here now, for far less money. If we paid these people what they are really worth, we could afford to hire Americans at a living wage, and maybe even pay stock dividends again. We would not have to outsource any other jobs.

Taxpayers subsidize their own demise
New Jersey is deciding to spend 260 million tax dollars that it doesn't have to build stem cell research centers. These laboratories will likely be staffed with foreign grad students and opportunistic professors seeking grant money. The state has practically no mechanism for exploiting novel inventions, since it's not a commercial enterprise. The buildings will be named for the politicians who provided the funding. The taxpayers are made vague promises that high tech firms will be lured to the region. The reality is that any innovations discovered in these labs will likely be used at plants in India or China where cost of production is cheaper. Knowledge is easily transferable. Wake up folks!!

Minimum Wage
Yes, the fact is that most corporations are against the minimum wage is merely because they want to make more money! Therefore we should not be fooled, but make sure to increase it a lot.

And, most corporations are against regulations, merely because it will cost them money, and they want to make more money! Therefore we should not be fooled, but make sure to increase regulations ad nauseum!

Again, this stuff is real simple. Those who have had higher individual profits when their bosses had a smaller labor pool should be happy that they got to ride the gravy train as long as they did. Most people in the world weren't born into it, as most of those reading this diatribe. But now that their train is ending, they want to scream that someone else is going to make more money, and that shouldn't be allowed to occur, so the government should make sure that the strength that is the U.S. should diminish, and we should go the way of the British as other countries embrace modern life and grow up.

I have no pity for the rich pharmacist that gets recalibrated by Walmart and Walgreens. He may cry for a while, but he lived in the big house and took everyone in the small city for a ride with his high prices because he had no competition. Sure, he gave a few dollars to the local baseball league, but he enjoyed his time in the sun, and now cries for relief when competition relieved the cries of the people.

This is an old story, and I have but little empathy for the morons who live in the rust belt and expected to have the same jobs as their fathers did, welding the same spot on the same Chevy in the same factory for 40 years.

Grow up and survive. There are 'have nots' all over the world that are waking up and learning about capitalism. I admire their hunger to make a difference for their family a lot more than I want to support the 'haves' of the world that want to force me to continue to support them with higher prices and government force. Not only does it not work for any country that it has ever tried, it is immoral.

Don't fret Cruisemissile
Don't fret Cruisemissile. Assuming that you are not being facetious, you'll likely have the chance to share in the hunger of the "have nots" soon enough. Formerly, the role of government was to protect the economy within its own borders, not to spread the taxpayers money around the globe. If nothing else, national security interests of the country dictate that we maintain core industrial capacity to enable us to wage war on the people with whom we currently do business. Or are you so naive as to think that the government of the "have nots" will always be our friendly trading partner? You are the Eloi, they are the Morloks. Enjoy your cheap iPod while you stand on your rung of the food chain.

Cruise Missile
CruiseMissile: "Yes, the fact is that most corporations are against the minimum wage is merely because they want to make more money! Therefore we should not be fooled, but make sure to increase it a lot."

Check out what small/medium sized businesses have to say about the job destruction that goes hand in hand with the minimum wage. Just because the "corporations" are against it doesnt make it right! Minimum wage laws HURT the POOR!

Phyllis
Phyllis: "Current law allows industry to import 85,000 workers with H-1B visas a year, but industry lobbyists seek to double or triple that number."

85,000 is a drop in the bucket in an economy measured in the trillions of dollars... Even double or triple that is still a drop in a bucket.

Phyllis: "The Compete America globalists are not interested in preserving America as the greatest nation and economy in the world, or in protecting American industry or jobs or universities or national security.

How do you know what they are interested or not interested in? You use the word "protecting" - perhaps subconsciously or consciously in terms of "protectionism"? If so, then that is the LAST thing you would do to preserve America. The lesson of the 1930s should scare the pants off anyone making these demands.

The Hawley-Smoot Tariff Act of 1930 was the single greatest contributory act which not only empoverished America's trading partners... but America itSELF.

Phyllis: "They rejoice in economic redistribution from rich and prosperous nations to other countries around the world."

So we should. ALL Christians should. Would you prefer the thoughts of a prosperous America, with 5% of the world's population, living in a see of poverty stricken nations which have no hope of bettering themselves?

And the only way that can happen is through trade. Enriching THEM and enriching US even further. You are victim to the myth that our trading partners enrich themselves at our EXPENSE, whereas in fact, they enrich themselves, as they enrich US even further.

A rich person and a poor person, in engaging in trade, EACH benefit from that voluntary act. Just so with a rich and poor country.

Jummy Jo do do.
The "buyers" of the system he
aquired from another created
the wealth not Gates, it was
the cash registers. Gates only
stood in the gate and collected
the renewal fees.

There are "slave masters" within.
So, why not tent cities, why not feed them poorly, why not 12 hr shifts, why not no air conditioning, why not no medical, why not cattle prods if they slow down, after all its the profit that we are all looking for.

taxfreekiller
First post: Good for Gates if he could generate so much wealth doing something so simple!

Second post: Not sure what point you are trying to make here... (??!!)


Bill Gates double standard
Without explaining how he many other CEOs can retain a standard of living thousands of times higher than average Americans, Bill Gates says that the American Middle Class must expect adjustment to the standard of the rest of the world.

QUOTING THE ARTICE: Bill Gates spoke for the globalists: "The United States has been spoiled by being a global leader for so long that there may be an adjustment. We've got to get used to the fact that our relative share of everything — our ability to exercise unilateral decisionmaking, military power, and economic power — won't be as out of line with our 5 percent share of world population as it is today."

Why the double standard? Either it's possible for different groups and countries to have a different standard of living - or it isn't. Certainly our standard of living CAN BE independent of whether 4 billion people are living in poverty in india and china - if the "race to the bottom" globalists stopped pushing "free trade" agendas that push work to the countries with the lowest living standards.

Free trade is one-way transfer of assets
Free-trader JimmyJoe wrote: A rich person and a poor person, in engaging in trade, EACH benefit from that voluntary act. Just so with a rich and poor country.

If a person "engages in trade" by buying smokes and booze to the detriment of their health, the corporations benefit, but where is the "benefit" to the buyer?

We are not talking about "trade" with India and China - we are talking about transferring U.S. manufacturing to China and U.S. service work to India - which together are seven times the size of the U.S. They could take every job in the U.S. and still have 1.5 billion people unemployed.

Would it be mutually beneficial to the U.S. and China if Boeing and Microsoft relocated to China? Do you have a clue about the threat that the U.S. trade imbalance is having on the dollar? Even if the dollar drops so we have the standard of living of China, the world will still purchase TV, cell phone, clothing from China, since the U.S. has lost its manufacturing capacity.



What Compete America wants?
JimmyJoe asks how Phyllis knows that Compete America is in preserving the U.S. as the greatest nation and economy in the world.

Here's one example: Compete America bemoans a shortage of Americans entering engineering majors. There are 500,000 H-1b workers in the U.S. The Programmers Guild advocates that the H-1b fee be raised to $5000 annually, with the funds used to offset fees and tuition for 125,000 Americans who would major in Engineering.

Compete America summarily dismissed the proposal:

http://www.informationweek.com/blog/main/archives/2006/11/should_h1b_empl.html

H-1B certainly depresses wages
Foreign grad student disputes that H-1b depresses wages:

a) The number of software-related jobs in the U.S. has been roughly flat at 2.5 million for the past several years:

http://www.coderbrigade.com/Q3_2006_Software_Job_Growth.JPG

During the same period the U.S. government flooded in 500,000 H-1b. By the economic law of supply and demand, Americans lost their ability to negotiate wages, and indeed wages have been flat while inflation has eroded real wages by 20%.

b) DOL only requires H-1B to be paid at LEVEL 1 of average U.S. wages. 80% of H-1b are paid level one, which it about the 17th percentile of what average-skilled Americans earn in the same job classifications.

c) The LCA database is full of H-1b programmers earning under $40,000 per year. These are supposed to be BS degreed plus specialized experience:

http://www.programmersguild.org/docs/lowest_paying_2004.htm

d) DOL regulations say that an employer becomes H-1b dependent if more than 15% of its workforce is H-1b - UNLESS those workers are paid at least $60,000 per year, in which case an employer comprised exclusively of 1000 H-1b workers is not deemed "H-1b dependent" and thus does not have to recruit Americans before sponsoring H-1B.

This policy places an artificial cap of $60,000 on U.S. tech workers.




Flooding in workers would destroy U.S.
CruiseMissile seems to believe that the U.S. should allow anyone from any country to come to the U.S. and compete with U.S. workers: We should bring in East Eurpeans to work as police and firemen for $15k salary, no pension. We should bring in Chinese to do fast food for $3 per hour, manfacturing for $5 per hour. We should bring in accountants and engineers from India for $11 per hour.

If CruiseMissile wants to live an a poor overcrowded country I suggest he dust off his passport and travel to one - there are many to chose from - and leave the U.S. to those who prefer a first-world standard of living.

Displacing U.S. workers is not "trade"
I am amazed by the posts of people who think allowing foreign workers to come and displace U.S. workers out of their careers is a necessary component of "free trade."

MOST Americans believe that Americans should be given preference for U.S. jobs - that citizenship should have some meaning and benefit. H-1b workers cannot be drafted. H-1b workers have allegiance to other countries - some hostile, economically, if not militarily.

Even Mexico does not allow foreigners unrestricted access to enter the country and work.


Fair Trade or Labor Arbitrage
We need to ease into free trade, not chuck America into a black hole. We need protectionism to maintain envriornment standards, workers protections and basic human respect and dignity.

If you want fair trade that bad why not open up that patent office and the copyright office and let Americans compete directly against these international corporate giants that don't serve national labor employment needs or innovation in the USA.

Also Deregulate NDA agreements, employer to employee non-compete clauses and any other sort of manipulation used by corporate entities to force labor out of the marketplace in fear of taking knowledge and creating and designing competing products. We need Americans being able to compete more now than ever before. Give this generation a chance to innovate instead of locking everything behind legal walls that protect the international corporations that don’t serve American labor interests any longer.

Protect and open up all land in China, India and the rest of the world so that Americans can buy and own it under our system. Also allow all Americans to be able to go to any country and displace any worker in China and India as needed. Do you think down the road that China won't be protectionist against importing mass labor beyond the top 1% best and brightest?

India might be more open but I seriously doubt after the economic wheels spin around and China gets on it's feet that it is going to follow free trade.

We handed them all our knowledge and technology on a handshake. Insane.

And last but not list in dealing with Bill Gates. Take the protections of his operating system and open it up to the public to be able to copy it and directly compete against him by reselling it with their own tweaks and changes. After all, it's just good for everyone right?

Displacement or feeding job creation?
Among misconceptions Re "slave labor", there's also the whole idea that all H1-B workers are high-tech. That is not true. There are young executives, teachers, nurses and doctors aplenty. And there are studies that say that far from displacing US workers, those H1-B and green card newcomers are feeding job creation in the US.
To be honest, I don't see a problem with increasing the processing costs for companies wishing to employ foreign workers. Still, it seems to me that math and sciences are almost ignored as middle- and high-school level, which I think explains low interest of Americans for those areas and makes an influx of foreigners a necessity. Furthermore... I have to say that current visa setup appears to be beyond repair, as Byzantine as the regulations are. If you increase the fee, you should guarantee timely processing. While the excuse that the background check takes time had been used often in the recent Immigration bill debate, few people familiar with the visa process believe it has anything to do with the delays in processing. For that matter, background check for people already in the US is a bit like checking of cattle for infectious disease after letting them roam your field. It needs to be done, but in a manner that made sense.
On the other hand, if you want to kill all the vestiges of the so-called indenture, indeed, the Congress should uncouple the workers and employers once the status is granted - that would also help with wage level enforcement, with workers less afraid to report violations.

Disclaimer: while not a techie, I plan to be a beneficiary of the H1-B program as it currently stands, and then jump through hoops to get a green card and eventually citizenship (probably in about ten years). I have entered US legally, and have no problems with "enforcement first" approach, even though I believe that 80% of INS (now ICE) staff on all levels needs to be fired for gross incompetence and dereliction of duty, and that the whole immigration setup is broken and needs to be fixed. I don't like the current laws, but I have obeyed them, and believe everyone else should.

Displacement or feeding job creation?
Maximpibs - I believe that the executives, doctors, nurses, etc. fall under the H1C program.

I don't believe that anyone thinks that you should not have an opportunity to work. From an American perspective however, the "Right sizing" or "cost cutting" that companies make of their workers in America to make their profits fit for the Stock analysts (and their bonuses) cuts at the heart of our economy.

We have the situation of NOT allowing seasonal or short-term minimally skilled people entry while encouraging larger companies to import while laying off local citizens.

We have a Senator from Washington State who demanded that Boing be allowed a rebid for a contract which may have gone to Airbus - but is NOT outraged about Microsoft laying off thousands of her voters then importing their replacements.

How would an Indian working 12 hour days for Tata like to find out that their jobs were being transferred to foreign Chinese brought in only for that purpose? There would be riots (or at least demonstrations) throughout the country.

Some of the hardest working programmers that I have met are H1B personnel.
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