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Monday, June 23, 2008
Peter J. Wirs :: Townhall.com Columnist
Let's Go RINO Hunting, Part II
by Peter J. Wirs
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Was the Copenhagen Global Warming Summit Walk-Out a Win for the U.S.?


Continuing our "thread," yes a lot of officeholders holding themselves out as Republicans are guilty of false advertising. Yes, Republicans are losing popular support faster than the Mississippi can flood adjacent farms. But do we throw the baby out with the bath water?

Just this morning, the news broke that Dauphin County, Pennsylvania, which has been solid Republican since the Civil War, just went Democratic according to the latest voter registration count. Most of you know Dauphin County as Three Mile Island, although it is also the seat of the State Capital, Harrisburg. While the capital city and its suburbs are a miniature version of Washington, D.C., the balance of the county is red-neck rural.

Dauphin County is within the 17th Congressional District, represented for many years by Republican George Gekas, who was one of the House impeachment managers. He was ousted in 2002 by Democratic Congressman Tim Holden, when redistricting threw both of them into the same pit. Gekas’ shockingly lopsided loss foreboded the GOP’s problems more than people are willing to acknowledge.

First, Holden portrayed himself as a conservative, one of the Congress’ Blue Dogs. Second, Gekas’ campaign was man-handled by the so-called Washington experts, who had absolutely no idea where Central Pennsylvania was, let alone what it was like. Third, Bush did nothing to help him (this was long before George W. became politically radioactive).

Fourth, and most important, RINOs had already taken over Dauphin County, one of the major counties in the Congressional District while Republicans were fighting among themselves in two other major counties, Lebanon and Schuylkill. The Dauphin County Courthouse was (and remains) rifled with unbridled political putridness and incompetence. The Tom LeMay hardball power-grabbing school of politics was already well entrenched.

I phoned one of Pennsylvania’s leading conservatives, Lowman Henry, a former Dauphin County Commissioner who (like myself) underwent Pennsylvania’s unique political baptism by fire (but that is a column for another day). Henry made two extremely cognizant points: first on how the local GOP was "so tightly controlled by a small group of insiders that [the party] can’t grow." Henry’s acute observation about the GOP’s prevailing culture is what most academics have known as the Jo Freeman Theory.

The second point is that Republicans are abandoning their principles at every level while the Democrats are successfully appealing to theirs. No matter how misguided Democratic principles may be, at least, according to Henry, we must concede that the Democrats are being "principled."

But the salient question at the moment is this: do conservatives hold their nose and vote Republican because America can’t afford the peril of Democratic control? Or do we allow the Democrats to take charge on a hope and a prayer we can return two or four years from now? The latter option is akin to AA’s belief about alcoholics, sometimes someone has to hit rock-bottom before they realize they need help.

As a former firefighter, I find Henry’s metaphor apposite: do we stop the fire then repair the house? Or do we allow the house to burn down to the ground and rebuild from scratch?

There are considerable risks to letting the house burn down completely before rebuilding. First, the GOP defeat could be so great it would relegate Republicans as a permanent minority, just as it was from FDR up until Reagan. Second, would a total meltdown actually rid the party of RINOs? If the powerbrokers are so entrenched, what assurances are there that they will be dispatched and grassroots conservatives regain control? And finally, there is the all important public policy question. Can America actually afford to have one of the most liberal Presidents ever in American history with an equally left-wing Congressional leadership? What happens to our economy? National security? Our schools? The war against terrorism? Think of the consequences of liberal Democratic judicial appointments, who remain on the courts long after Obama leaves office?

When you dial 911, you expect the Fire Department to stop the fire as fast as they can, because of the risk of the fire spreading. Yet, it is a valid firefighting strategy to allow a structure to burn down completely, because it can’t be saved or the undue peril that firefighters would face. You see forest firefighters light "backfires" to eliminate brush so as to slow down the forest fire. But whatever strategy the chief implements, the bottom line objective is to stop the spread of fire, to prevent it from engulfing additional homes, buildings or forest.

The choices for all true-blood conservative Republicans are this: Option A: do we work for all Republicans because America can’t afford the Obama-Pelosi-Reid left-wing troika?

Option B: Do we work only for McCain, writing off Congressional RINOs as hopeless (preventing Obama from winning but putting up with Pelosi and Ried)?

Or Option C: do we allow the GOP to suffer a total meltdown, realizing the risk it may take years or even decades to rebuild?

I firmly believe we must go with Option A. But what option do you choose?

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About The Author
Peter J. Wirs is currently the Chairman & Co-Trustee of the Republican Leadership Trust as well as the incoming President of the National Conference of Public Officials. The views and opinions found in this article represent the author's views and opinions and not those of any institution or organization with which the author is affiliated.
 
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I choose option D
which you left out. That one is the one where we all realize that McCain is the KING of the RINOs, so we write HIM off, and work only for true conservatives and libertarians in the congress - especially the senate.

Then, maybe they'll grow a pair and fight Obama, and return to power on the right track, like Reagan after Carter, or the class of 1994 after Clinton beat Bush 41.

I have a few suggestions for McCain - should he want to convince us limited-government types that he is not a RINO:

- close the border to illegal immigrants.
- forget about giving citizenship to the ones already here.
- cut taxes (too little, too late, too opportunistic)
- Call for passage of the FairTax
- quit demonizing profits
- quit thinking you know how much CEOs should be paid.
- drill for oil domestically (again too little, too late)
- draw down troop presence in Germany & other places that no longer need protecting
- get realistic on global warming (no cap & trade)
- do what we need to do with captured terrorists
- support the 1st Amendment (repeal McCain-Feingold)
- eliminate a few fed departments. Education would be a good start.
- quit calling for fed funding of embrionic stem cell research


A challenge for those of you who think I should hold my nose and vote McCain: Name a historical example of a party moving left, then back right (to smaller government) without first getting whipped at the ballot box. If you can do that, I'll think about voting McCain instead of Bob Barr or Chuck Baldwin.

Chris, you beat me to the punch

I was going to write EXACTLY the same thing: the unmentioned Option D.

This column shows Wirs's own true RINO foundation, as he doesn't even mention in passing the idea that McCain's the problem, and not part of the solution.


The minimum one checkmark for this pathetic column, only because I can't give minus checks.

The TH site owes me a bunch of checkmarks now, because of this drivel Wirs constantly writes.

Oh, THIS debate again....
The anti-McCain conservatives will show up and bash McCain a bit. The "we need a republican at any cost" crowd will show up to tell us that Obama cannot be elected under ANY circumstances, even if you must "hold your nose" to vote for McCain.

The anti-McCain crowd might still venture to call him McLame or McAmnesty. McCain-Feingold will be alluded to. As well as his position on man-made global warming.

The pro-McCain crowd will warn you that Barack is a real-live socialist, and even if McCain is no "true conservative", still, he is better than the depths of depravity (socialized medicine! hate-crime legislation!) Obama will steer our beloved country into.

The anti-McCain crowd will say THIS IS JUST THE WAKE-UP CALL needed for conservatives! 4 years of Obama and America will gladly vote a straight up-and-down conservative ticket next time around. Just what the doctor ordered!


This sort of column (with the usual suspects responding) is predictable to say the least.... Hmmmm. Deja vu. It's like we're all trapped on some predictable yet demented merry-go-round, as the McCain debate goes on and on and on and on and on.....

Sign me up for:
Option D! The party is out of control and deserves the beating it will receive in Nov.

I hope conservatives have the will to send a message to the party by just saying NO to mcCain!

Rinos
I'll be one of the nose-holders, simply and only because of the judge situation. Even then you can't depend on McC to do the right thing.

The down-ballot races are SO important! I'm sending $ directly to the Senate and House candidates, because the NRCC and NRSC are so lame. In Illinois they don't support candidates they "don't like" (meaning conservatives) even after the guy wins the primary.

It's as though a flap of the Big Tent was left open, and the GOP has been thoroughly infiltrated.

Yes Chris and Brian
are right! Option D, I will support conservatives for congress and local offices.
Mr. Wirs, Can America afford to have McCain leading the country wearing a Republican label but working hand in hand with those across the aisle who share Obama's ideals?
Obama may burn down the house in short order but McCain would maintain a slow, controlled burn if he does not changes his stance on many issues.
Let's get it over with so we can rebuild to keep America great!

grammar, and permanent minority
Wirs, I'll give you this - the grammar this time was much better than usual. Most of the problems were due to you writing as though you were speaking casually as opposed to - uh - writing.

The winner of the "least grammatical Wirs sentence" award goes to: "First, the GOP defeat could be so great it would relegate Republicans as a permanent minority, just as it was from FDR up until Reagan."


This sentence is due special attention - other than the use of "as" instead of "to", and "it was" instead of "they were": Ike and Nixon were both blue-blood, big-government Republicans. Like Reagan they did very well for themselves, especially during their re-election bids. However, unlike Reagan, they failed to inspire the kinds of policies that would sweep the GOP into power in congress.

And McCain is far more liberal than Ike or Nixon. Electing him IS the route to generational minority status.


Wirs, yet again you've used the vocabulary of the limited government believer, but made it obvious that to you it is a poorly understood foreign language. But then, you generally write as though English is a foreign language, so I suppose it's to be expected.

Yes, THIS debate again
will, those of us who care about limited government have an important and tough choice this year. Wirs, of course, is only pretending to be conflicted about the options - he's a GOP man all the way and is perfectly happy with McCain.

By the way, McCain-Feingold & his position on global warming were already expressly criticized, not just alluded to, in my first post.

So, if you're bored, go away - maybe to Obama's new site defending him against all the bashing in preparation for voting for him in November. Then those of us who still care about the constitution can discuss which is worse - Obama as POTUS or McCain as POTUS.

in response to Gunsight29's 12:30 post:
Gunsight29 asks: "...Tom DeLay came out and banged the drum for SSG (sorry Dr. SSG) and she still got creamed...why?"

Was that the election where Tom Delay dropped out so late that Dr SSG couldn't get her name on the ballot, so they had to run a write-in campaign against the Democrat? If so, that might explain why she lost.

That and the fact that Delay was tainted by both the Terri Schiavo and Jack Abramoff situations. Bringing the Terri Schiavo situation to congress in particular was a major error by the GOP. That was clearly a violation of states rights among other things.

Robert, The GOP
is losing election after election because they do not differentiate themselves from liberals and moderates(people who do not know what they want and are afraid to take a stand for fear of losing). The GOP is known as the conservative party and its leaders have forgotten the principles and the people who voted them into office and are now voting them out.

Chris and Tom

Chris, well said yet again. I may have to hit my "refresh" button more often!


Tom, I respect your decision, and your reasonable tone. Speaking for myself -- though I think most of my fellow conservatives agree -- I always urge people to consider the issues and their options, then vote their own conscience. All I ask is that my decision be given the same respect.

Once we have that basis established, we can have civilized -- and fun -- conversations.

When I post my comments, I'm simply stating what actions I intend to take, and why. I only control one vote; my own.

Though I do have to say, as the "political junkie" in the family, I have a very heavy influence on about 15 - 20 others. Which certainly doesn't bode well for McCain.


Option C
sounds good to me, because McCain is RINO. We already have Democrats, who needs RINOs?

Gunsight29, who is the right wing?
Certainly not Bush! "compassionate conservatism" means "not conservative". Look at Bush's growing of the government, complete disregard for the enumeration of powers, and signature on McCain-Feingold. This is not right-winger - he's a moderate who got tax-cuts right. He's a centrist who's been painted as a right-winger by the BDS-afflicted sore losers of Florida in 2000.

As for the amount of evidence about Saddam's potential threat vs global warming, go back and look at what the parties were saying in 2002 - most of the Democrats were also convinced he was a serious threat and, like Bush, thought it should be dealt with BEFORE it became imminent. Now that less WMDs have been found that were thought to be in Iraq, many tunes have changed.

The only evidence for a global-warming induced catastrophy comes from models, not measurements.

Imagine how many tunes will change when the earth continues its cooling trend that it's been on for the last 10 years...

Option A-I don't think so
I have two comments-one about Mr. Wir 's option A and one for Tom

1. Is not Mr. Wirs option A the same one we are urged to adopt every election cycle? What's that cliche about "Doing the same thing but expecting different results" ?

2. About the judge thing-what makes anyone think that the author of McCain-Feingold will appoint strict constructionist judges? That kind of jurist would automatically throw out McCain-Feingold. And rule that an illegal alien is indeed an illegal alien and therefore has no standing to challenge their detention and deportation. I think it more likely McCain will attempt to redefine strict constructionism to match his agenda.

Not that there is anything wrong per se with either Option A orTom holding his nose. Just don't make the mistake of thinking McCain (or any Republican) is something he's not.

Me-I don't really know what I'm going to do come November. I'm between a rock and a hard place.

Actually, Robert is right about one
thing...

The era of the family values/moral authority/faith-based/Jesus is Lord social conservative is, thankfully, limping toward its end. This movement, I believe, has had a detrimental effect on the old-school (read "real") Goldwater-type conservative.

Unfortunately, all you Goldwater conservatives sacrificed your principles for votes by letting the so-cons and the neo-cons into the big tent. Everyone can get along right? But the social cons, with their emphasis on control (women's bodies, gay sex, drugs {alcohol during an earlier era}), is almost the opposite of what Goldwater envisioned and they have managed to warp the conservative agenda to suit their own needs and have recreated it into a wholly different animal.


And now the mainstream american public is hip to the social con and neo-con agenda and a growing and vocal majority feel that agenda is un-american and undemocratic. But, they are firmly ensconced under that tent...

Democrats will have a larger majority in the House and Senate in November...plus the presidency. You all can do the math.

Dr. Shelley Sekula-Gibbs
Ok:

in 2006 Tom Delay resigns from the House under the Abramoff scandal. He does so after he's already won the primary, so his successor can't get their name on the ballot.

SSG wins the special election to serve Delay's last 2 months, but loses the general to the Democrat because her name is not on the ballot and she had to run a write-in campaign.

Then she loses the primary runoff to 70-30 to Pete Olson this year, despite the support of the tainted Delay.

The little research I've done on Olson indicates he's MORE conservative than SSG, despite what she said about him. From the outside, given about 30 minutes of research, it looks like the primary contenders had the same positions on almost everything, except SSG was soft on illegal immigration.


Explain to me again how that shows middle America has rejected conservatives? Maybe they're rejected Republicans who've gotten in bed with corrupt lobbyists.

I choose option D -- for Disaster
Carter's four years were disastrous. The pro-American Shah was replaced by Islamofascists, The Soviet Union invaded Afghanistan, the Panama Canal built by American money and blood was given away ... Even the great Reagan could not undo the damage.

Four years of Obama would mean appointment of judges like Ruth Bader Ginsberg instead of Samuel Alito, surrendering in Iraq and leaving our allies to be slaughtered in a bloodbath, coddling terrorists by allowing them access to our courts, infanticide ...

Long-held GOP seats
(sometimes held for decades) have broken for democrats in recent special elections: Illinois, Louisiana, Mississippi.

National Republican Congressional Committee Chairman Tom Cole issued this statement after the Mississippi loss: "We are disappointed in tonight's elections results. Though the NRCC, RNC and Mississippi Republicans made a major effort to retain this seat, we came up short."

These are not isolated incidents. They now constitute a trend.

I just shrug
It is going to be Option C: Total meltdown.

And I will tell you further, so that we are all clear about what it will mean: A lot of people are going to die. In the next four years, the weakest echelon of our society who otherwise would have made it if sane conditions prevailed, will not, under such impossible politico-economic conditions as have begun to exist and which will be substantially worsened when outright socialists own two branches of government. There will be no money left from either the government or private charity to save them.

Their deaths will be on the hands of GOP members who sold out, not ours; members who knew in the back of their mind that enlarging government wasn't really the right thing to do, but refused to believe that there would ever be long-term consequences of selling out our nation's ideals piecemeal for another four years in office.

What exactly is "the baby" in the GOP or in McCain bathwater? They have moved our country hard left under pressure from impotent Democrats, who cannot even do it by themselves owning both houses of Congress. Of what value are McCain and the GOP to us? They are a negative value. They are worse than Democrats alone. Democrats can only really whine and agitate. The GOP provided the experience, the understanding, and most importantly, the moral surrender needed to implement their irrational ideas and make their execution more efficient: More efficient at executing us, quickly or slowly.

Continued...

Continued
Anyone contemplating office will never face reality if they see that we continue to coddle office-holders every time they sell us out. They must see our resolve to believe it. I am beyond sorry that it has to be this way, but the GOP members are the ones who have rejected reason. Even now, facing imminent destruction, they refuse to face reality. They plead in vain for the intervention of the voter’s consciousness, a mystical, unknowable, all-powerful force that must be pleaded with to override reality for them, but which is not powerful enough to protect itself from the real-world effects of a GOP whose end state is helpless supplication before it.

The Democrats are ineffectual. They will either move to the right, or shoot themselves in the foot. There is no other option for them, because their ideas are bankrupt; they do not work in reality.

We can pick up the pieces and rebuild. We will. At least, most of us will, the majority who do not die.

Gunsight29's endorsement
you said "Both SSG and Pete O asked for my endorsement..."

Are you at liberty to say who you ended up endorsing and why?


Also, you may have me confused with the so-called "social conservative" wing of the GOP. I am an evangelical, but have no desire to impose my moral code on anyone other than my children. Politically I am very much a libertarian - interested in limited government. Tom Delay's actions concerning Terry Schiavo caused me to doubt that he is on "my side" or that I'm on his.

about those long-held seats
Will, you reference the GOP's loss of 3 of 3 special elections for the USHoR so far this year. I agree they constitute a trend - of the GOP supporting moderate losers instead of conservative winners.

Democrats Travis Childers (of MS) and Don Cazayoux (of LA) both ran to the right of their Republican opponents. They both ran as pro-life and pro-gun. Cazayoux's opponent was also tainted by association with David Duke, who is not a right-winger - he's just a nut-job.

Democrat Bill Foster of IL ran as a blue-dog Democrat (i. e. conservative) against a scandal-plagued multiple election loser.


The GOP needs to start fielding good conservative candidates if they want to win. Until then, they deserve the butt kickings they've been getting of late.

SCOTUS appointments
at 1:49 jono64a wrote "Four years of Obama would mean appointment of judges like Ruth Bader Ginsberg instead of Samuel Alito"

Dave M at 1:10 has this right - expect Souters and Stevens (both appointed by Republicans) from McCain - not Alitos or Scalias.


jono64a continues "surrendering in Iraq and leaving our allies to be slaughtered in a bloodbath, coddling terrorists by allowing them access to our courts, infanticide ..."

I'm sure Obama will be for continued infanticide. But the somewhat pro-life McCain will be powerless to do anything about abortion.

If Obama is elected, I seriously doubt he'll be so rash as to fulfill his campaign promises on pulling out of Iraq, by the way. The move-on types will be sorely disappointed when Obama's advisers explain how things are to him.



I notice no one has even attempted to answer my original challenge: Name a historical example of a party moving left, then back right (to smaller government) without first getting whipped at the ballot box.

Bush has not pandered to his base
The only things Bush has done for the base are cut taxes, defend the country, and get two good appointments on the SCOTUS.

I suppose his attempts on domestic drilling and soc-sec were nice even though they failed. Other than that he's been a major disappointment.

If he'd pandered to his base his approval numbers wouldn't be that far into the toilet.

I'll say this - Bush fooled me, but only once (in 2000). When he signed McCain-Feingold I knew he wasn't a conservative.


Gunsight29, you're saying Shelly is a hack who's flip-flopped on multiple issues to appear conservative. Sort of like what McCain is doing now, come to think of it. Doesn't sound very conservative to me. From what I've read, I'm glad Olsen won, and I hope he whips Lampson in November. Maybe we have more in common than I originally thought.


As for the three special elections, do you think the Democrats in those elections ran as liberals?

Gunsight29, trying to figure out
where you're coming from.

If I'm reading your posts right, you're a pro-choice Republican from the Houston area who thinks Bush is too conservative, supports government action to stop global warming, and supports McCain - and not just as the lesser of two evils.

Care to correct or add to that?

What did you think of Reagan?

What did you think of Bush 41?

I'm not trying to make a point here - just being curious.

should have refreshed
Gunsight29, I posted my 2:43 without having refreshed and read your 2:36... sorry about that...

what would you say if
the house doesn't burn at all?

In fact, its flames simply cease and rebuilding begins?

corporate lobby
Gunsight29, I agree Bush has "pandered to the corporate lobby". That would be the opposite of limited government, though, and pisses me off.

"He is the one who has stopped offshore drilling and declined to advance the Anwar drilling."

No - Bush pushed for opening ANWR, most recently in 2004/2005. McCain and 6 or 7 RINO supported the Democrat filibuster & defeated that provision in the 2005 energy bill.

"He is the one who lied exaggerated the threat in Iraq..."

OK - "lie" means you knew it was wrong when you said it. This "Bush lied people died" thing is just silly BDS.


"and he is the one who cut taxes"

Yes - good move. It ended up increasing IRS collections, which always helps when trying to balance the budget.

"while running up spending."

Yes - a huge failing of his presidency. I think that is even with the bad news out of Iraq at the time as the primary cause that the GOP got trounced in 2006.

to Gunsight29
Gunsight29 says "we cannot find the courage as a people (or desire) to cut spending as I would do..."

With you there 100% - we've got to get a handle on spending.

There is no tax rate that can support the rate we're currently spending. The only thing that can happen is continued devaluation of the dollar and all the damage that does to our economy.


Anyway, you have a good rest-of-the-evening with W.W.

If Will ever has a rational thought
it will be the fastest trip in normal space. In one ear and out the other. Social conservatives are NOT the Iranian theocracy. They just want localities to set these standards NOT some pointy heads in Foggy Bottom. Roe will go away some day and abortion will still be legal in liberal meccase like Seattle, San Fran Fruit Market, Bahston and SickCago. Unfortunately the Rotten Apple will be on that list also.

Poor "victims" of their own genitalia will have to "pound the Hound" to get an abortion. Boo hoo!

Now where did I leave my 750 grain solids for the .577 Express? Time to hunt RINOS.

-Ray
NRA Life Member

Chris ~ Option D IT IS !

wobbie translations...

For your edification, I have translated a few of wobbie's more common phrases.

Before you skip on, let me give you a few of MY qualifications.

I was the main military decoder during WWI, WWII, Korea, and Viet Nam.
Sherlock Holmes and I discussed this just last night and ^(*^%&%#@@

OH NO ! OH NO ! I am doomed! I spent too much time in wobbie's head !!
Save Me, save me....

~~~

Not 'Naval' Captain, he meant 'Navel' Captain.


"...29" = in 'screen name', he's bragging about his IQ of 29, having been beaten out by every quadruped except 'Three Toed Sloth'.

'later/latter' = Off to Wiki, to copy-paste several articles of 'smart-stuff'

'Night rounds' = i heard a mouse squeek and so, upstairs to mommy

'New Girl Friend' = mommy found inflatable doll at garage sale (slightly used)

"Wonder Woman" = mommy found inflatable doll at garage sale (slightly used)

'Went Flying' = my cousin told me to sniff 'this' and you can fly

'My Net Friend' = That nice Hul Donkyhoo who keeps sticking up for me

'Smart People' = Hul Donkyhoo, Daft, Butte, Peachbus, Athie Provo, Kinky L, Mydoggy,

'Code Pink' = My favorite people, and pink my favorite color (see my panties)

'Best Game' = When Hul and I pretend to be each other. LMAO

'Off for lunch' = Check navel for leftovers. I'm Captain of my navel.

'Bedtime' = Off to Wiki, to copy-paste several articles of 'smart-stuff'

' 4F ' = Don't know what this means, better check on it in Wiki

'Opinion of Wirs' = WOW this guy thinks like I do

'Will' = hey, he thinks like I do, (wonder if he has a steady friend?)





Wrat Wrangler


Location: NY

Reply # 53
Date: Jun 23, 2008 - 5:42 AM EST Subject: If Will ever has a rational thought
it will be the fastest trip in normal space. In one ear and out the other. Social conservatives are NOT the Iranian theocracy. They just want localities to set these standards NOT some pointy heads in Foggy Bottom. Roe will go away some day and abortion will still be legal in liberal meccase like Seattle, San Fran Fruit Market, Bahston and SickCago. Unfortunately the Rotten Apple will be on that list also.

Poor "victims" of their own genitalia will have to "pound the Hound" to get an abortion. Boo hoo!




>Now where did I leave my 750 grain solids for the .577 Express? Time to hunt RINOS.<

-Ray
NRA Life Member

~~~

Wrat Wrangler

Way too much power, unless you have them lined up 20-30 deep.

Otherwise, a .177 Crosman will do the job, just fine.

This will deflate their super egos, and we will be well again.

(Aim for their posterior region if they are running. It's the largest area.)


Rats
(and mice, also an NRA Lifer, since mid-sixties)



Wendy of #31
Well said.

Charlie Crist
This guy in FL is one of the worst offenders. As unprincipled and sleazy as they come.

Ratas y Ratones
Judging by his choice of caliber, Wrat Wrangler prefers the head shot on RINOs. Given the density of solid bone and the size of their egos, he may not be over-gunned. As for your advice on shooting for the posterior regions, i see you favor the brain shot. Its true that when a brain exists, it will be here, but the odds on having a brain at all are not good.

NRA lifer 1959, out of my first real paycheck.

McShame Must Do A Lot More
Chris' list along with a few others would be good for starters for McShame - or the Repubs will be toast in 2008. Add to the list a few:pledge to veto fat legislation, distance himself from lobbyists confess that the current legislation is very bad and pledge to fix campaign reform, shake up the DOJ and pledge a goal to reduce almost all govmint agencies by 10-15 percent. If the tide doesn't turn in his favor he can always flip flop again.


Conservatives can vote
for McCain and become an irrelevant afterthought in the Republican Party. McCain’s owners/handlers designed his candidacy with the main objective of dismantling the Reagan big tent. Unfortunately driving Christians, gun owners, and anti illegal immigration voters out of the party will return the GOP to the permanent pygmy status it enjoyed until 1980. The K street crowd wanted this guy, now let’s see if they can elect him. Reject McCain and socialist parasites who own him, vote anyone else.

John Konop
Tough indeed. Very provocative. Perhaps a trifle long for the attention span of the intended audience. LBJ's litle girl/daisy/mushroom cloud was shorter and just as effective. Maybe more. A majority may go along with the video, but i doubt it will sway very many. There are either enough serious intelligent people to maintain our Republic, or there are not. The next few years after November will tell the tale. As the NBA ad says, let the truth be told.

chris
While I have been somewhat entertained with the back & forth between you and "Robert", I have to ask.

You ARE aware you are debating a paid, Moveon.org troll whose "biography" and "exploits" are nothing more than fantasy created by a very sick mind?

For "Robert" to be and have done all he has claimed, he'd have to be Noah's age.

He has been thoroughly discredited to the point that Townhall regularly bans him - and is working to make his disappearance from this site permanent.

Just thought you'd like to know.

Regards.

John Konop
Just to satisfy my curiosity, I went to the link from your favorite political website and watched the video.

Looks like something the Saturday Night Live folks would create.

If you buy into those tired and worn out exaggerations, it says a great deal about your level of political seriousness and intellectual honesty.

Anybody who buys into such nonsense is an unrecovering Koolaidaholic.

Primus54, i was starting to wonder
how a pro-choice left-of-Bush Republican could win a primary even for dog-catcher in the Houston area.

But I would have thought someone from moveon.org would be arguing against McCain, not for him "100%". What's the angle?

Chris
You ask good questions about Wobbie. IMO, he is merely a provocateur. He is adept at posting anything that provokes a reply, and more adept at continually moving the bounds of the discussion to keep people hooked at trying to explain things to him. McCain is merely a button he uses to provoke the sizeable group here on TH who will not vote McCain under anyforseeable circumstances (never say never). BrianR, myself, and lots of others fall in this group. Long ago i tried discussing things with Wobbie, but realized he has no principles. His object is merely being noticed, he entices people into addressing him and then, using his own rules, always "wins" the discussion. He disappears when ignored.

Do what you would prefer to see occurr
You can reject McCain if you like but he is the ONLY hope that Federal judges, especially Supreme Court Judges, will not be activists writing their own laws through their verdicts.

Option A is the only one viable. [unless YOU are a RINO]

Nightowl 872
And what makes you think McCain will give us the kind of judges we want? Because he said so? And politicians never lie, right? Especially in an election year.

You are planning to vote for someone who has demonstrated time and again he has no loyalty to our Constitution, and in so doing send the message to the Republican party that their left lean is acceptable, all because you believe McCain will give you conservative judges? I'm afraid you are in for a BIG disapointment.

to Nightowl 872 on SCOTUS appointments
See Dave M's 1:10 post about the kind of SCOTUS appointments we'll see from McCain. I'll summarize: Souter, not Scalia.

Even if he wanted more Alitos and Roberts (which I doubt), he wouldn't be able to get them by the Democrat Senate we'll have next year.

I'll stick with option D until someone answers my challenge in the first post.

Oh - and I'm a libertarian conservative, not a Republican.

chris
Robert's "support" of McCain is merely a smokescreen to keep him from being totally dismissed as the leftist he truly is.

Notice he never provides a list of all the reasons people should support McCain?

He has several times claimed that he didn't vote for Bush either time, yet refuses to say for whom he DID vote.

How likely is it that a "true Reagan conservative" and "minor GOP figure" would have voted for Gore or Kerry?

If you hang around long enough, you will notice that the only posters he has "friendly" dialog with are the leftist/liberals who troll these threads.

If you point out these inconsistencies, he will either divert, suddenly have to "leave the thread", or call you a liar.

He is a complete and total fraud.

Option D for me...
What is needed is to support Libertarians in RINO districts. It would be a wonderful thing to have a bunch of Libertarians get into Congress and start pressing for smaller government and less spending. Maybe then the Republicans would find their Conservative roots or be faced with a Libertarian candidate in '10.

This election is such a big mess. I am sick of it and we still have 4 1/2 months to go.

I no longer worry . . .
because three years ago, I joined the Constitution Party. The Democrats have an immoral platform, and the little morality the Republicans have left is viewed as a hindrance.

A real Christian follows the God of the universe, not the party line. However, with the Constitution Party, they come quite close!

And, Chris

Just in case you are wondering who Robert's "Wonder Woman" might be, the below link provides a picture of her:

http://tinyurl.com/2ow35p

Enjoy!

hul

Location: PA


"I can understand Burt's panic at the demise of extreme conservatism but to attack the wife of a candidate for president with this kind of nonsense is over the top. Burt you are a tired nasty old man and you just proved it. Your day is over. "

~~~~~~


hul donkyhoo, AKA 'wobbie'

you slurred ... (hic) LMAO (hic)




"...Burt you are a tired nasty old man and you just proved it. Your day is over..."

(hic) LMAO (hic).

~~~

Gee hul, is not this the case of the 'kettle' calling the 'Bright Shiny Skillet' a pot?

YOU! Yes You, are the tired, the nasty, the poor in spirit, the REMF, the fool, the senile, ...




Oh forget it. Please put down your fifth of cheap vodka, ("Dark Eyes", isn't it? )


Go to bed, sleep it off, and go visit AA tomorrow.

Medicare will take care of any expense, and you will get to meet others like you, who will pretend to like you, and also, you will get to learn how to Bowl, how to play UNO, and maybe even 'hook up' with someone.


OK, forget that last, even they are NOT THAT desparate.


(Not that you will ever make it through Step 1 of the 12 Step program, but you will get to say, "Hi, I am hul, and i do has da prodla...")

OK, cancel that last. Even those people are NOT that desparate. They will not allow you to spout YOUR DISGUSTING FILTH, even at AA.


Anyway, Please Say hi to 'wobbie' from all of us who dislike him, intensely.

Cheers.

Please note, I was much kinder to you than you have been to YOUR victims.

Just my nature. I can't help it.


A Legal Contract with America
I WILL NOT HELP Republicans until they help themselves - renounce big Government by their actions - rather than their words. I want to see a contract with America - signed by any Republican that wants my support - that restates Conservative principles. I want the contract to serve as a legal document - one that will stand up in court - and I want to be able to sue them should they break the conditions of the contract! I see no other way to fix the problem of this country!

I AM THE RINO

Nightowl 872 Location: KS

"Option A is the only one viable. [unless YOU are a RINO]"


You are absolutely right Nightowl.

Over the last 8 years, the Republican party has gone further and further to the left.

They became greedy for power and deserted all conservative principles, in the hopes they could buy votes with social handouts.

They have become the Liberal-Lite Party.

They turn their back on Conservative Candidates and Visibly support more liberal (Moderate) Candidates.

I and all those true Conservative Republicans that believe in a Small Limited Government have become the RINOs.

The rest of the Republican Party has become the Liberal-Lite Party.

I don't want to be associated with a bunch of Liberals.

Especially that lying Arrogant Liberal McCain.

That is why I'm researching the Libertarian Party and the Constitution Party.

Mr CVN65



Mr CVN65, AKA Mr Phelps, as Sergeant-At-Arms, you are our most reliable member.


Your mission, should you decide to accept it, is to find the Poster Norman, free him from the RINO kidnappers, and return him the the "Throne Of The Whirs-Wirs slash,n,bash team", We really miss the guy.

Disclaimer, if you are caught or captured, The Secretary will disavow any knowledge. (I know we Secs. are slimy), but enyhow, that's the way it is.

Secretary,
All Things Conservative



Oh great...
... another column encouraging Republicans to form a circular firing squad (and another opportunity for TH regulars to make with obsessive Robbie Rants).

Rino hunting indeed
As a Conservative and a Republican I am not at all happy with this cycles choices. BUT in the general election I am voting Republican, even for McCain. Two or four years of total Leftist control of government is just too dangerous.
The time to go RINO hunting is the day after the election. There are Conservatives out there who will and do run in the primaries. Those we need to support; and we support THEM-not the RNC, not the Congressional and Senatorial Committees. The money we sent in the past to the RNC and Congressional and Senatorial Committees have supported too many RINOs V conservatives.
And we do get some victories. Last election I sent my money to Tim Walberg of Michigan to help knock off a RINO and then to win the General. He did. Come on good people, let's go RINO hunting.

wobbie translations...(some new)

wobbie translations...

For your edification, I have translated a few of wobbie's more common phrases.

Before you skip on, let me give you a few of MY qualifications.

I was the main military decoder during WWI, WWII, Korea, and Viet Nam.
Sherlock Holmes and I discussed this just last night and ^(*^%&%#@@

OH NO ! OH NO ! I am doomed! I spent too much time in wobbie's head !!
Save Me, save me....

~~~

Not 'Naval' Captain, he meant 'Navel' Captain.


"...29" = in 'screen name', he's bragging about his IQ of 29, having been beaten out by every quadruped except 'Three Toed Sloth'.

'later/latter' = Off to Wiki, to copy-paste several articles of 'smart-stuff'

'Night rounds' = i heard a mouse squeek and so, upstairs to mommy

'New Girl Friend' = mommy found inflatable doll at garage sale (slightly used)

"Wonder Woman" = mommy found inflatable doll at garage sale (slightly used)

'Went Flying' = my cousin told me to sniff 'this' and you can fly

'My Net Friend' = That nice Hul Donkyhoo who keeps sticking up for me

'Smart People' = Hul Donkyhoo, Daft, Butte, Peachbus, Athie Provo, Kinky L, Mydoggy,

'Code Pink' = My favorite people, and pink my favorite color (see my panties)

'Best Game' = When Hul and I pretend to be each other. LMAO

'Off for lunch' = Check navel for leftovers. I'm Captain of my navel.

'Bedtime' = Off to Wiki, to copy-paste several articles of 'smart-stuff'

' 4F ' = Don't know what this means, better check on it in Wiki

'Opinion of Wirs' = WOW this guy thinks like I do

'Will' = hey, he thinks like I do, (wonder if he has a steady friend?)



Rino hunting
Republican in Name Only=RINO. Mr. Wirs, let us go back to the oringinal RINO. His name? Abraham Lincoln. Lincoln was a Whig whose party was in absolute destitution. Whigs had lost out when the Constitution came into being declaring State Sovereignty and a minimum of Central government.
Whigs, along with abolitionists joined with the fledgling new Republican Party for no other purpose than to oppose the States Rights people such as Thomas Jefferson.
Lincoln showed his true colors when he decided to invade the South with 70,000 drafted men(which was also unconstitutional and the people of New York rebelled openly against it.
By today's standards there are still men who say, "If the Government decrees something, it usually is right and should be obeyed.
RINOs have been with us since Lincoln and are still hard at work seeing to it that the created Federal Government(created by the Sovereign States)overcomes its creator.

To Hell w/ ..
the republicans. They have their lifetime benefit packages and jobs promised as lobbyists.
If I am going do be a slave to the state it won't be willingly by my own vote.
Besides, who could really believe the republicans want to win anyway? I don't think that they object one bit to being the towel boy in the democrat latrine.

All politics are local
Obama will cause long lasting harm to this country. He is a Marxist! Half the Democrats boarder between Socialist and Marxist. McCain should be voted in. If nothing else we might see nothing get done for the next four years. That would be a positive. He might pick a good VP and then have a stroke or something, who knows. The fact is, we have to look at our congress and start there. I've got a Democrat Congresswoman in my district (Giffords). I am working hard to show her voting record to everyone in my district. I am not a political activist but I'm going to be one or I'm going to see our country destroyed.
I am constantly writing Kyle (My Senator) to let him know my views. A consevative leader will be born out of all this and he may not be a Reagan but I am sure he will be a conservative
I plan on holding my nose until that day and working towards the day I can breath fresh and clean air. In other words I'm not giving up.
All Politics are Local. That means we each have a responsibility for who gets elected in our districts. That is where I believe we should start, not opting out.

Not Going To Happen
McCain is currently running 15 points behind Obama. That is an indication how "electable" McCain is among conservative voters, not that Obama is that good a candidate. The GOP has put the gun to their head, telling the rest of us they will pull the trigger if we don't vote for McCain....... well, go ahead.

Ratas
Norman showed up on Hunting Rinos Part 1 at the very end.

Like the new Robert translations.

You Cannot Rebuild the House.
You cannot simply repair a fire hose, put out the fire, and rebuild the house. The reason is that the house has already burned down. The leftward movement of Bush, Delay, Hastert pertaining to the 80% expansion of the federal budget over the last 8 years ended any hope whatsoever that we could control the growth of the central government. We have moved to an entirely new spending level and level of socialization. And, the fact is that we will never cut spending sufficiently to use the previous level as the base. That's gone. The federal government has never cut spending - at least not in my lifetime. We have become the very thing many of us bitterly opposed. You cannot, in sum, rebuild the house back to its former specifications. All you can do, is build a different house. In trying to build that different house, we have another issue. And that is that only about 25% of the house and senate are "reasonably reliable conservatives". The rest are not.

It's a sheer illusion to pretend that you're going to get rid of those that are not reliable conservatives in the GOP. McCain certainly doesn't enunciate "Conservative Principals", so he's not going to take us back to the house that Reagan built. And most of those in the GOP that are not reliable conservatives will be re-elected by the voters in their states and districts.

After all, is Wirs willing to publish a list of these candidates and then advocate their removal publicly? Of course not. He still wants to believe in "Reform", and "Compromise".

This concept of "reform" will take a decade or longer - if ever. In the interim, the rapid socialization of the US that picked up speed in the last 8 years will continue unabated. In many ways, it has already gone beyond the point from which we can recover.

Excellent analysis but boneheaded answer
Blah, blah, blah, blah, vote McCain... just because. Apparently, we are the last stage before total capitulation by these RINOs, including Mr. Wirs. It's like the stock market that keeps trading in a narrow range but can't break through on the up or down side while the news is all bad all the time. At some point, the wishful thinkers who keep rationalizing good out of bad capitulate and the market corrects to the REAL prices allowing buyers and sellers to step back in. That is what the GOP needs, we need to wreck the RINO establishment so it can crash and burn and those of us who are willing to work with a principled party come back in. We need to remedy a party that is "so tightly controlled by a small group of insiders that [the party] can’t grow." It's the insiders that we most object to and by holding our noses, they hold on to power and THAT is how the GOP will relegate itself to permanent minority status, just like Pennsylvania and California. Lot's of red in both states but no Republican party. (one star)

Chris
Moveon wants a RINO as POTUS to further waterdown the GOP. They see the damage and want the kill. I see Roberts posts are now gone.

Stop splitting the party!
The fact is that most of these so called Rhinos are more Conservative than most of the new Dems who came to power in 2006 were liberal. The Dems can see the whole picture!

We need to fight every battle in the country choosing the most Conservative candidate availble in each race. The Regan coalition didnt check political DNA at the door, it said join us and fight the good fight!

Option D
I agree with chris (as usual).

The only way we recover from the impending disaster being brought to us by RINO power brokers in the Republican Party is to defeat these RINO power brokers first, then go after the Democrats.

If we let the House burn down (Option C) the same RINO power bokers who are making us a permanent minority in gov't will stay in their positions of power, which is all they care about.

The Republican Revolution of 1994 was about conservatism and the fact it works and liberalism doesn't.

A vote for McCain is a vote for RINOism. A vote for a down-ticket RINO is a vote for RINOism. Support conservatives only. McCain is not a conservative.

It should be noted that since they became the minority in both houses in 2006 Republicans have shown far more backbone fighting liberalism than when they had control.

A lesson learned too late.

Usually
I just scroll past anything by Robert...he is such a maroon. This time I actually read a few. Gawd.



"As for global warming...color me a skeptic on it...but I am not oppossed for a lot of the "remediation" for it...see I think we should soon quickly transition off an oil based economy."

If he really was a captain, doesnt that mean he has to have a degree....oppossed?

We are going to QUICKLY transition off an oil based economy????



"I dont think drilling lowers the price."


"...when I am home I live in 22...I know it far better then you do. Both SSG and Pete O asked for my endorsement...I am a "minor" political figure back home."

"I konw Pete."

"the entire right wing of the GOP is hearing the song "Nearer my creator to thee" play as the good ship "old gop base" "departs the registry'"


Hey pal, you really think the GOP can win elections with just you and Waterhead?



"John S. McCain Master and Commander"

"Long live The Republic"



His "Long Live The Republic" is my favorite. Headline news Wobbie...your boy is for the NAU. The Republic is finished.



I try to learn from my mistakes, back to scrolling right by Wobbie's droppings!



Hey Ratas
Glad to see you joined in. We seem to have a few dissenters expressing cowardliness in the face of danger. I have it, lets just all commit group suicide because McCain is a RINO. Sure McCain is a RINO. But have these folks ever heard of the saying "Cut off Your Nose To Spite Your Face"? There is no way any RIGHT minded person will allow a Marxist to be elected over a McCain RINO.
Standing on principle in this case is like getting into a fight with your crazy wife and she is driving her car right towards you threatening to run you down. But you are right so you just stand there on principle.
I'm not sure which is worse, Obama being president or the thought of all you folks standing on principle.
One last thing. Keep in mind that there have been numerous instances of liberals pretending to be Conservatives and getting things all stirred up. Just keep it in mind. If it ain't positive, keep it in mind

Response to Ed From Warren
"The Regan coalition didnt check political DNA at the door..."

Actually, Reagan refused to support Ford after Ford defeated him for the nomination in 1976. As a result Jimmy Carter defeated Ford in close general election. Carter's Presidency was four years of disaster, but it was corrected in 1980 when Reagan won.

Fours years of suffering under Carter led to the 28 years of prosperity initiated by Reagan conservatism. We will never know what would have happened if Ford had won in 1976, but it is very doubtful that he would have achieved the economic success of the 80's boom, the 90's boom, and the revival of the economy under the Bush tax cuts. And it is almost certain he would not have brought down the Soviet Union without firing a shot.

Four years of Obama may just be exactly what it takes to make the spoiled crybabies and selfish wannabes on the left and the rudderless moderates and independents in the center understand how well conservatism works.

The responsible thing
They (Republicans) have mad cow disease running through the herd. That doesn't mean they are all infected only that they eventually will be. The responsible thing to do not for the cows, but for the public is to eliminate the whole herd. There can be no trace or memory of the disease when we bring in a new herd.
Secondly, the fear of option C, which I espouse gives rise to the question which is; are we so far gone that it has come down to a matter of the man in every office? Are we no longer a nation of law but of men? Lex Rex or Rex Lex? If so, then C is a dangerous path. It is also the only path.
Yet I fear most of you secretly believe we've gone too far. We've abandoned law and hitched our wagons to a hope in men instead. Wirs certainly which is why he picks A. If that be the case an honest evaluation would conclude that it matters not much which man, if the system of law and checks and balances is trumped by the machinations of men.

Waterhead

Made our point for us.

"Yet, it is a valid firefighting strategy to allow a structure to burn down completely, because it can’t be saved."


"Former firefighter"?

That in his "profiles in courage"?

Somehow Waterhead doesn't look to me like a guy who could bench press his body weight.


I'll vote for Norman's circular firing squad. If the country is going down, I'd rather it wasn't our guy leading the charge.


Ratas

Lady of the evening here...(and back in the land of the living I might add!)

Norman (our leader) explains his abduction at the end of Rino 1.


BTW, I saw that you have been nominated to be VP of the "Peter Wirs Love Fest and Chicken Barbecue" club.

Our Sergeant-At-Arms takes his duties seriously and I expect will show up shortly for roll call.

As the token female and tempering influence, I have been remiss in my duties. So I fear I must throw down a warning flag to our leader. That Lorena Bobbitt bit was getting close to a foul!

Even though it is a guilty pleasure to watch the boys misbehave, I have to remember to stay on task!








Ratas

almost forgot...

CHEERS!

To all, a thought on Robert and

his ramblings.

I was on last night when he started posting, and totally ignored him. He's on the TH hit list, and as usual, his posts are gone this morning.

Those of you who responded to him last night now have a bunch of comments floating here in a vacuum; you wasted your time.

Further, as Anna pointed out, if everyone ignores him, he typically just gives up after 2 or 3 posts, and vanishes on his own accord.

I've discussed with him a few times in the past when I've been especially bored and he's been unusually lucid, but that's the rarity, believe me.

Just some food for thought. And now I've wasted much more time on him on this thread than I intended for myself.


Chris
You laid it out very effectively. The analogy of fixing a fire hose and putting out the fire before the house burns down, then repairing it, no longer applies. Those who state that they need to vote for conservatives down the ballot, must first deal with who is running this year. If you look, you'll see that there will be no change in the GOP simply because those options don't exist this year. Those GOP members who are not conservatives are on the ballot. So, unless people intend to vote third party, they have no more options to vote for conservatives in Congress than they do for President. Unless those advocating such a position are willing to identify those in the GOP that must be replaced, and create a movement to get rid of them, they will be re-elected.

The bottom line is that we are going to have, in one fashion or another, another 14 million to 20 million illegals who will be made legal. Further, the very statement that we cannot deport them now makes it clear that if these 14 million to 20 million do not accept whatever path to citizenship they are offered - we still won't deport them. And, each year, the numbers continue to rise as more flood in. The great illusion offered is that "we'll secure the border". That's pure nonsense. Congress will never appropriate the money and personnel necessary to shut it down. That's a given. The same issues that have caused these politicians to avoid this now, will be in play then. It will anger hispanics then, just as it will now, so it will never get built. They want the votes - not the fence.

Similarly, some may try to "control" spending, but they will never cut it. That's also a given. That 80% increase in spending is now permanently embedded.


Cont'd
Those that fear socialism need to wake up and smell the roses. We are socialistic. That's what we've become. The Democrats took us there, and the GOP greased the skids.

Those that propose compromise - as in work with the system - are too late. It is what it is.

People never historically accept change unless its forced due to a crisis. The practical fact is that those advocating vote for twiddle or vote for dee, are afraid. And its fear that drives their vote. Bush was a socialist who believed in Big Government. Obama is the same, or a little more so. But they both come from the same roots. Government is the solution.

If you want to end that thinking, then if must fail. Only if it fails will people accept the alternative.

I'm perfectly willing to see it fail. Because the alternative - keep propping it up, is even worse in the long run.

Another "tactical call-sign"...
... bites the dust!

This time, it was "Gunsight29" - another made up name, which is nothing more than a "tough-sounding" moniker created by an active imagination, followed by "@hotmail.com".

The only way our pet mouse, "Robert", gets back on these threads is to keep creating new email addresses.

But he'd have you believe his "IT Guys" have this long, long list of past "call signs" of his many, many exploits as a pilot of "fast movers", and that they are just randomly changing his screen name for the "fun of it".

It takes a pure sociopath to come up with these outrageous stories - so outrageous that some are fooled into believing them.

Those of you
Who say things such as "circular firing squad" or "cut off your nose to spite your face" don not look at the whole picture.

If we vote McCain in, then 4 years later he is our man most likely and we are again voting for another RINO. Then 4 years later the republican party knows they can stick a RINO and we will vote for them and we get another candidate who is even left of McCain. Is that what you want? When voting please take the full ramifications in of what you are doing.

What we are doing is purging the party of all RINO's. Sometimes you must hit rock bottom to climb back up. Americans are right of middle and once the Republicans see that, they will come back right. We must force them to see that or we will be lost. Obama now or Obama later. If you vote McCain you will end up with liberals forever in power until the end of this glorious country.

Robert
Why can't they just IP ban? His IP though dynamic will come from somewhere and they should be able to ban it. Come on IT! haha

What RINOs cannot accept
The country can survive the demise of that other Democratic Party, the GOP. To further expect them to accept that it would be a good thing is asking too much. System overload! Stand back! It's gonna blow! Weasels never realize that they are weasels.

CKHustler
You are correct - and I have asked the same question.

It appears that, although a nuisance, "Robert" isn't a "high priority" on the IT Staff's list of "things to do".

Vote for the Rino or the Commie
There's another thing to think about in this coming election. It's not a fireman analogy. it's reality.

You lose your freedom once. There will be no American (imperalist oppressors of the people of the world) coming to save you.

The country's at the edge. There's no reason to jump off.

Remember, "Turn boys, turn! We're goin' back!"

On Robert,
He/she would disappear if people simply ignored "it".

Hey CJHustler
That be me! Who you trying to hustle? Obama is a Marxist. Your going to vote for a Marxist instead of a RINO? If you vote for anyone but McCain, your voting for OBAMA! That shouldn't be to tough to understand. Get out and work for you local candidate, hopefully a non-rino Conserative. That is how we are going to win this battle, not sitting around in a circle-jerk whining about RINOs. OBAMA is a Marxist!
McCain will at least support our troops!

Dancing Bear is...
...exactly right about Charlie Crist. (See Reply #34)

Virginia Patriot
I saw that same poll indicating Obama leads John McCain by 15 points; it was a Newsweek poll. Frankly, right now, I tend not to take the poll results too seriously - and I'd be saying the same thing if that same poll showed McCain UP by 15 points. As I recall, in 1988, didn't the polls show Dukakis at about this same stage in the presidential election campaign with a much bigger lead over George H.W. Bush? Well, we know how THAT turned out, don't we? Too much can happen that can change the political dynamics overnight between now and Election Day and probably will, so right now, I'm not getting too excited one way or another at what the polls show. Besides, just WHO did that Newsweek poll include? Likely voters? Registered voters? Those who have land lines? Etc.

I would think that the person who ought to be most dismayed by this poll result should be Hillary Clinton, for two reasons: 1) polls like this will only convince Obama that he doesn't need Hillary on his ticket to win, and therefore further diminishes her already very unlikely chances to be his running mate, and; 2) if these polls show that Obama is actually electable as president, it further diminishes Hillary's opportunity to try again in 2012. If Obama is elected and she's not his veep, her next window of opportunity is 2016 - and by then, at almost 70 years of age and with Clinton nostalgia pretty much evaporated by then, it's extremely unlikely she'd even try again by that point.

Option C
Sorry Pete but I can no longer go down this road. I see Mccain victorious this fall but not with my help. The problem is that four years from now we will have a radical in office because Mccain can't sell or act conservative. He's not a leader. And in the absence of leadership I believe people panick and make dumb choices (vote Democrat). Mccain will receive an economy near recession - He's not good on economics. Possibly replacement of two justices - no way to put good justices on without a supportive senate. And if you think his aisle crossing ways have bought him good will see what Kerry says about him lately. Then there's the war. He has no strategy other than saying he wants to win. After four years of Mccain the nation will scream for Hillary or Obama. Then where will we be.

sandrob
Get a grip dude. Can you not see the logical ending if we keep voting for RINO's? As long as they stay in power they will continue to put them up. This extends all the way to the local level. How can you rid yourself of the party when you continue to vote for it? There can be no change if you support them before they change. I know Obama is a marxist. I have proven time and time again on here that he is. I will simply not vote for the only other party in America to follow in their footsteps. Just look at Jack and his anti-American logic. "(imperalist oppressors of the people of the world)" We will continue to move towards that until we stand up and say we have had enough. That is what I am doing now.

Anna ~ Cheers to you also, Salud !
Or, as they say in Japan, Kampai, shimasho.

(I know english translations from an Oriental languge is poor.)


Location: OR

Reply # 4
Date: Jun 23, 2008 - 11:16 AM EST Ratas

Lady of the evening here...(and back in the land of the living I might add!)

Norman (our leader) explains his abduction at the end of Rino 1.


BTW, I saw that you have been nominated to be VP of the "Peter Wirs Love Fest and Chicken Barbecue" club.

Our Sergeant-At-Arms takes his duties seriously and I expect will show up shortly for roll call.

~~~

Anna,

OBTW, if you mean the 'tempering influence' here in the sense of Tempering Steel, and making it harder, and less brittle, you are absolutely correct !!!

You nailed it, fine lady !


VP ? Nope.

I am not worthy. Chris is the rightful heir to VEEP.

I do, however, appreciate the honor. I am a 'Johnny-come-lately', and have not yet earned THAT HONOR, as Chris has.

I would accept the nomination as Secretary of Defense.

Why? I do have a certain Warlike Personality that I try to hide under a 'personna of innocence'. ( Perhaps, I don't hide it too well. :-) )

Glad you are better! I have been puny myself here lately. Trouble with my 'electrolytes'. I don't care for the shift I work now. 12 Hours minimum, and sometimes 14-16 Hours.

Sux. But, it does beat being on welfare.

Sometimes, I amuse myself, thinking, what if 'they', ACTUALLY HAD TO WORK FOR A LIVING.

Then I break down, laugh hysterically, and slowly regain my composure.

Fun stuff.


The Vampire Rodent Slayer.

Hola, el muerte Ratas y Ratones...

Hi, end of times to rats and mice (lefties and liberals)




RINO Hunting
If Wirs were serious about RINO hunting, he would promptly turn the gun on himself.

I have had my fill of these moderate hacks. We are where we are as a party because people keep voting these moderates into office due to their being "not as bad" as the lib they are running against.

Years of doing this have left the party power brokers thinking that we will continue to accept anybody they see fit to support.

From a few of the responses on this thread I see that some will fall for this once again. I am not in their camp this time around.

Reporting for Duty
Good afternoon Anna, Ratas, Chris and CKHustler; sorry I am late. I think that either Chris or Ratas would make a fine VP. And Anna, you are the ONLY female, never a "token". Does anyone else find it amusing that persons like sandrob post on a Wirs thread in hopes of "bringing us around" and voting RINO? They really should realize that we congregate here, not just to unmask Wirs, but to reaffirm our opposition to John McCain and his brand of "conservatism redefined". I am heading out of the thread to the Blogatorium in hopes of capturing our fearless Leader.
cheers CVN 65

The 2008 quandry.

So, what to do?

Becasuse indeed, America is at a cross-roads.

If we help to elect McCain, we will most likely continue our drift to the left. With a RINO president and an increased Democratic majority, that's an easy call. The main questions are, how fast and how far left do we go? And what does that really mean for America's future?

If we help (and we will, by staying home or voting 3rd party) to elect Obama, how badly will we, our neighbors and our friends suffer? Because, suffer we will. And would America really be able to recover from what one poster calls a certain disaster? From leftist supremes to national insecuriy to a Mid-East disaster to higher taxes to job losses and to a staggering national debt. Personally... I wonder.

Which still leaves me "MAD AS H*LL". Because RINO hunting we simply "must" do.

The real question then begs itself - what is the best way do rid ourselves of the largest number of RINOs???

ROG, 9:43 AM post, points to a few. Stay away from the RNC and support conservatives directly - by funding, by volunteering and by word of mouth. Focus on the primaries first, instead of the general. Additionally, BrianR claims "influence" with a number of people. That's excellent grass roots activity. Talk to your friends, your neighbors, your associates. Then bring them along, have the time of your life and help to put good local conservatives in office.

So, most humbly, I submit option G - The Great American Grass Roots Movement.

Because, sadly, I do not see any meaningful changes in the GOP and our country with options A, B, C, or even D or any 3rd-party option.

I sincerely believe that any true and lasting change will come ONLY if enough of us get really mad. And mad enough to actually leave our houses to help recruit, help support and help elect a good number of TRUE conservatives from the bottom up.


2008
WE should try to save as many senate seats as we can. Once they are lost-they are lost for 6 years. It starts with getting the best candidates(usually former governors) to run. It hasn't happened. Think DuPont,Nicholsen,Edgar, Thompson, Engler, Bush, 2 in N.D., at least 1 in Neb.,-the list goes on. Even if they ran and lost they would at least have shown the leadership to fight. Don't count on me caring if this is what we get. C.W.

THE HOUSE IS BEYOND SAVING
I choose option 'D'- not listed: vote for conservatives when and where I can, but never vote for a RINO again.

I like the analogy to the fire fighters and the burning house. Sometitmes the firefighters are unable, due to circumstances beyond their control, to arrive in time to save enough of the house for it to be salvagable. After the fire is out, there is just a skeleton and the house is declared a total loss and torn down anyway. I believe this is the situation we are in as conservatives. Therefore, I will not vote for McCain, but will vote for a third party candidate, and support conservatives when and where I can on the 'down ticket'. For me, this is reality. Voting for McCain is pouring water on a house that is already beyond salvaging.

Hey CKHustler
I wish I could live in fantasy land too. It must be fun to be so caviler about electing a Marxist. Why don't you go ice-fishing in the middle of summer, it will cool you off and maybe you will come to your senses dude!

Pasadena Phil
I used to believe what you say is true.

Fortunately, Townhall continues to gather new readers & posters all the time.

The unfortunate "downside" is that these newbies do not know the "history" on Robert and end up engaging him.

Past attempts have shown it to be an impossibility to get him totally ignored - so the next best thing - until his permanent banishment - is to expose him for the fraud he is. IMHO.

STOK54

STOK54
Location: MD

Reply # 1
Date: Jun 23, 2008 - 12:22 PM EST RINO Hunting
If Wirs were serious about RINO hunting, he would promptly turn the gun on himself.

I have had my fill of these moderate hacks. We are where we are as a party because people keep voting these moderates into office due to their being "not as bad" as the lib they are running against.

Years of doing this have left the party power brokers thinking that we will continue to accept anybody they see fit to support.

From a few of the responses on this thread I see that some will fall for this once again. I am not in their camp this time around.

~~~

STOK54

I agree with you. Please feel free to join the Wirs Whirs Wars, coalition.

I, as self appointed Secretary of Defense, welcome faithful and Very Cognizant Allies!

Please accept this offer to join the 'fool-bashing coalition'. Please prove yourself worthy, and bash away.

This is the most fun, I have had in a long while.

RINO = DINO, and you know what happened to them !


Excellent target. RINO, to Port, Dead in the water. Open Fire. "On Target" FIRE AT WILL !

Rats
(and mice)



STOK54

STOK54
Location: MD

Reply # 1
Date: Jun 23, 2008 - 12:22 PM EST RINO Hunting
If Wirs were serious about RINO hunting, he would promptly turn the gun on himself.

I have had my fill of these moderate hacks. We are where we are as a party because people keep voting these moderates into office due to their being "not as bad" as the lib they are running against.

Years of doing this have left the party power brokers thinking that we will continue to accept anybody they see fit to support.

From a few of the responses on this thread I see that some will fall for this once again. I am not in their camp this time around.

~~~

STOK54

I agree with you. Please feel free to join the Wirs Whirs Wars, coalition.

I, as self appointed Secretary of Defense, welcome faithful and Very Cognizant Allies!

Please accept this offer to join the 'fool-bashing coalition'. Please prove yourself worthy, and bash away.

This is the most fun, I have had in a long while.

RINO = DINO, and you know what happened to them !


Excellent target. RINO, to Port, Dead in the water. Open Fire. "On Target" FIRE AT WILL !

Rats
(and mice)



sandrob
you need to cool it and think about your actions and what they will do. Am I happy about Obama being on the other side? Of course not! I can see though that some trials now will snap the public back to seeing what the democratic party is all about. What socialism is all about. What the Republican party is all about. Once the public is educated on what these politicians are trying to do, they will immediately come back right. I look to history for my support. Jimmy Carter came in as the unknown how was for honesty and a change from politics. 4 years later Reagan was elected. Now how did Reagan and the conservatives gain so much support? Due to Jimmy Carter causing so many problems. We can do this once again, only this time we must totally rid ourselves of these socialists and marxists.

Ratas
No sign of Norman The Brain Dead Vampire over at his blog. I fear that "loppyhood" may have recaptured him. You make an excellent SecDef with your constant vigilance, BTW. You nailed it; welcome to anyone with the desire to unmask the leftward trend of the GOP. If we vote for McCain, he will be back again in four years and will continue the assault on the Constitution. I am sick of this "Just do it for the Supreme Court" argument. I do not believe that either party will ever tip the balance solidly in their favor; that would make elections less important. Less importance means less money for the pols and their professional handlers and we surely do not want that. No, they will keep it tight with 3 on the left and 3 on the right and one goofy Sandra Day O'Connor type in the middle, changing positions with the wind. This way, they keep us involved and contributing. Not this guy, not this time. Have to get back to work. Check back in a few hours.

my most humble apologies
for debating Wobbie last night. It won't happen again...


to sandrob and Jack: I understand that Obama is a Marxist while McCain is merely a socialist. But they've got to work with congress to get anything done. With McCain the GOP falls into line and the Dems only support leftward movement on policy. With Obama the GOP grows a pair and fights him (compare the congressional GOP record during Clinton vs Bush 43 for evidence).

Result? The country is MORE socialist after 4 years of McCain than 4 years of Obama. Plus, as others have pointed out, we can't get a better GOP POTUS in 2012 if McCain's been POTUS in the meantime unless he kicks off.

This is not a "spite my face" move - it's best for the country.

conservative senators
Seeing no responses to my challenge in my first post, I won't be voting for McCain.

Here's my delimma: Senator Jeff Sessions is running for re-election this fall. He was instrumental in defeating McCain's amnesty last year, but he's a big spender.

I wrote him to urge him to withhold his support from the farm bill. He wrote back defending the spending.

The sad thing is that even given his big-spending ways, Sessions is one of our most conservative Senators.


Similarly, my representative in the house, Spencer Bacchus, also voted for the farm bill, but he's a supporter of the FairTax, which would be a great step in the right direction. The Dems don't usually even bother running anyone against him though.

So I'm thinking of voting for Sessions - because we need to prevent the Dems from getting a filibuster proof majority in the Senate, but going 3rd party for everyone else. Any thoughts?


Primus54, gee, thanks so much for the WW link. Now do you have a link where I can order some eye-bleach? ;-)

I WILL NOT HOLD MY NOSE and
..and vote for a RINO anymore.
If don't have THE candidate, I will not vote.

Why RINOs are needed
It's basically a math problem. Reliable conservatives are only about 30% of the electorate. You need over 50% to win the election. You also need to have over 50% of the house and senate seats to control those bodies.

Most Americans are not hard core ideologues. If about 30% are conservatives, I would guess that 20% or maybe even fewer are hard core liberals. That leaves the 50% of the population that is conservative on some issues, liberal on others. By the way, Ronald Reagan signed the first bill legalizing abortion in California in 1967 (he later said he regretted signing it, but hey, whatever. Between the time he signed it and Roe V Wade which made abortion legal throughout the US, it was estimated that 2 million abortions were performed in California). Reagan also signed the first no fault divorce law in California. Both of these were very liberal measures. Was Reagan a RINO?

America is very diverse and the genius of our political system is that it is hard for any one faction to totally have their way. When Bush was reelected in 2004 he immediately tried to reform social security. Republicans controlled both houses of Congress. That was the best opportunity since Social Security was created. The Republicans in Congress did not even bring it to a vote. Too many voters wanted their social security unchanged. Pragmatism triumphs over ideology.

It usually takes some massive crisis for large scale changes to happen. The creation of the modern liberal welfare state by FDR happened because America was in the midst of a serious depression and Herbert Hoover basically did nothing from 1929-1932 to alleviate it. If The US undergoes a serious crisis and the conservatives happen to be in the right place at the right time, then large changes can happen.

Chris, that's very problematic

My Congressman's a great and true conservative, and my Senators (Boxer and Feinswine) are both disasters, so my decision's easy.

I think it might be appropriate to cut your Congresscritters a bit more slack, and for a couple of reasons.

First of all, individually, they wield little power (unless they're a committee head, in which case none of this comment applies). They're part of a larger body.

Also because of that, their election isn't nearly as symbolic as that of a Presidential candidate.

Bear in mind, the Executive -- at both the state and national level -- is also the head of the party at that level, and consequently represents the party's planks (official and unofficial) and ideology.


I disagree, SanDiego

The story is in the numbers. As a percentage of the electorate, the Democrats have remained unchanged, and the GOP has lost a percentage equal to the increase in percentage of Independants.

Further, Bush's approval ratings have ALSO fallen commensurately. His 30% (app) approval pretty much matches the percentage of registered Republicans.

This tells me that America remains an essentially conservative country that votes with its feet. Not a glad tiding for McCain.



to all members in good standing
in the "Peter Wirs Love Fest and Chicken Barbecue" club.

We have been honing our skills thanks to P.Waterhead, but we need to take our mission more seriously IMO.

As Chris said most of the Rino's are better at
disguising their agenda than the Waterhead. This site is infested with CFR/neocon scum. I think we ought to begin unmasking them and their treasonous agenda.

Kudlow, Barone, and shockingly even George Will, are globalists. NR is CFR affiliated. Then there are the neocons!

Maybe our Secretary of Defense is up to the job?

Some of us have already been roughing up Kudlow!

BTW just found out Breyer, Ginsberg and Souter are CFR. That explains Kelo. There are ways around the Constitution. Their latest ruling is a perfect example.



"Let us face reality. The framers (of the Constitution) have simply been too shrewd for us. They have outwitted us. They designed separate institutions that cannot be unified by mechanical linkages, frail bridges, (or) tinkering. If we are to turn the founders upside down… we must directly confront the Constitutional structure they erected."
- James MacGregor Burns, Council on Foreign Relations member, 1984




http://www.newswithviews.com/Kress/joe17.htm

http://www.apfn.org/apfn/cfr-members.htm



I like your definition of "tempering" Ratas!!


Hope you are feeling better! I had a bad cold. Back in the pool this morning...a little sluggish after Nyquil the nite before. LOL

I've got work to do also...be back later!

I agree--
I agree with chris on option D. that he suggested and listed the factors. I will add a couple to that great list, 1. Locate, arrest, and deport all illegal aliens now. 2. Fine every employer of illegals 9K per illegal Plus a minimum of 10 years in prison. 3. Make all sactuary cities illegal. 4. Make all anchor kids illegal and deport them.

Hey CKHustler
Bad choice... Most of the Democratic Congress back then was the the equilivant of many of our republicans today. They were not near as far left as the Libs are today. The libs today are so far left they make Karl Marx look like a centerist.
Voting for Obama is nothing more than deserting our military. Commander-in-Chief Obama. Think about it.
As far as letting the people see what is like under a Marxist, they will see plenty of this with McCain in Office. The democratic congress is full of them and the current Gas problem will wake up a lot of Dems to the road their being led down.
Now is time for re-building the party and that means cleaning up your own back yard for a start. MN really need a lot of work.

Hey Anna
You forgot to add Santa Claus to your list. I heard he was a Trilateral Member in good standing.

sandrob
Your dam* right we have lots of cleaning to do in MN! See here in lies a bit of the problem. And believe me I have wavered on this subject many times over.

If McCain gets in there, sure the people will get a taste of it, but not the full blown bit. Its like a frog in a cooker full of water. If you put a frog in warm water and slowly heat it, the frog will eventually cook to death. If you turn up the heat quickly the frog will jump out. We do not want the American people to acclimate to these socialist policies. If you vote McCain you will only continue to support the RINO republican party and I will cease to do so.

What I would rather do is get rid of this left leaning republican party and take them over with a new conservative party. Not a third party conservative party but a party to overthrow the death grip the republicans have on many conservatives. No is the perfect time. McCain will end up aligning himself with the congress and then the republicans and conservatives will continue to take blame. Why not put the blame on democrats while getting rid of the RINO's at the same time?

It doesn't matter how liberal they were back then. Jimmy quickly turned up the heat on the frog and Americans jumped out. We have now been acclimated to a warmer water and we must jump out.

Wobbie The Weasel
Robert is operating under about forteen aliases. Most have 29 in the name. He is busy trying to fool'em every day. Almost every day,his posts are deleted.

No one can win a debate with him. The most you can expect is a stand-off. He regularly ridicules my posts and usually I ignore him,but sometimes.....I have to answer him. Then I could kick myself. He is truly a loon.

Please,you people need to think long and hard about this election.If McCain wins,we will have four years to work on something else. I believe we could have a more conservative Party.

I am so worried that Obama,congress and the MSM,combined will bury not only us,but the country.We may never recover from it. We can work with McCain out of necessity.

I believe the reason Obama has change his mind(or Soros changed it for him ) about public financing is so he can get foreign money by the millions.Muslims in the mid-east are already working for his election.

If RINO'S see the error of their ways,they will be ripe for the picking in a year or two. They will come back home,we can spank them and welcome them back into the fold.

To All Non Consevatives
I have a good idea for all you folks that seem to prefer Obama because McCain is a RINO. Why don't you all gather at a meeting place of like mined people backing Obama. That is, the Dailykos or the Huffingtonpress. There will be a lot of folks over there you can whine to and I'm sure they will feel your pain. I suspect about half of you came from over there anyway. Just think of it as a return trip home.
LOL

Option A and Option B are no
different. PJ Waterhead has done it once again. Not only does he NOT shoot at the RINO, he tries to pass him off as an elephant.

It would seem the object of hunting is to actually KILL something. Your RINO hunting escapade is more on par with one of those false photo shoots where you are standing in front of the green screen pretending you are in the jungle on a hunting safari and the computer places you in the scene as if you were actually there.

Nobody is buying it.


Hey CKHustler - The End
I noticed you didn't address our troops.
I'm not here to convince you of anything, your going to do what your going to do. I just hope there are not many like you. Obama must loose this election!

BrianR #108
Well the numbers on my part were a rough guess. The main problem is defining what is a RINO. For instance there has always been a divide between the social conservatives and the free market conservatives. Some free market conservatives are socially liberal. Some social conservatives are more populist in economic matters. Which are the RINOs?

The point I was trying to make is that those who are conservative on almost every issue, the hard core conservatives, are a probably a minority. The exact numbers, who knows? But in order to gain a governing majority they need to get the support of those who are not hard core. Who are conservative on some issues, liberal on others.

As far as America being a conservative country, I think it depends on which issue. Regarding, Social Security which is the bedrock of the welfare state, most Americans are probably liberal. No fault divorce laws, most are probably liberal also. On some issues like abortion, the population is divided down the middle. In general principles like you need to work to get what you want, or that you need to take responsibility for your actions, or that the government should not give handouts to people who are lazy, most Americans are conservative. Same goes for the laws regarding illegal drugs (though there is a large minority that is against the war on drugs).


Rowly, I have to disagree

Here's the fallacy in what you wrote:

"If McCain wins, we will have four years to work on something else. I believe we could have a more conservative Party.

"If RINO'S see the error of their ways,they will be ripe for the picking in a year or two."


In what way would McCain's success indicate to the GOP that their ways are in "error"?

Nothing succeeds like success, as the saying goes, and his election tells them "being a RINO is the way to win elections".


All you have to do is look at California to see where that strategy leads. Look at Ah-nuld, a flaming liberal who'd be on the left end of the Dem party in most states, calling himself a Republican. It's enough to make me chuck my cookies; I feel like shooting my TV every time I see his smug idiotic face.


Rowly writes:
"Robert is operating under about fourteen aliases."
-----

Actually, Rowly, the very first night "Robert" started to alter his screen name, the number of aliases he used was thirteen.

That was several weeks ago.

He's got to be well into fifty or sixty by now - could even be a hundred.

But he'll flatly deny Townhall is trying to get rid of him!

Sociopath...

sandrob
So far the McCainiacs have called us names, appealed to our better selves, appealed to party unity, tried the Obama scare tactic, told us to sit down and shut up, used the Supreme Court argument, told us that McCain IS a conservative, chided us for our immaturity, called us haters and nativists, and so on; now you refer to us an non-conservatives. That is funny. Let the chips fall where they may; either candidate is a losing proposition for America. I say take the poison that makes us regurgitate rather than the one that stays in the system and works its intended aim. The general hope, here at the "Peter J Wirs Love Fest and Chicken Barbecue" is that the GOP will effect cranio-rectal dysjunction and right it's ship. If we elect Old Cranky, that may never happen. Clear enough?

CK Hustler
Good analagy with boiling frog.

McCain will get no frogs to jump. Obama will for sure.


Cheers!

troops
You mean that half sentence in which you did? I for one believe that no president will remove us from Iraq before our job is done. It is too dangerous for their party to do so. That is a bit of a problem for the democrats. If they remove us before we are done, there is a good chance Vietnam will be redone in Iraq. If they don't remove us they will have broken a major promise and will lose popularity. Its a classic dam*ed if you do and dam*ed if you don't dilemma.

SanDiego

I'll try to restate my response, as what I wrote seems to have vanished into the ether.

The conflict isn't just between "social" and "free market" conservatives. It's really between the Reagan/Goldwater wing of the party and Country Club/Rockefellerites, and has been going on for over 50 years.

It's really a conflict that adheres to the true definition of conservatism, which is essentially a small government philosophy, opposing a "benificent government" outlook, as characterized by Bush.

The idea that Joe and Jane Sixpack are by nature Reaganites is underlined by the historical evidence: when Rockefellerites run, if they win at all it's by small margins (Bush) and have a hard time actually winning at all (Ford, Dole, Bush 1's re-election as "not Reagan").

However, when a candidate runs on strong a Reaganist, that candidate enjoys a landslide (Palin, Jindal, the 1994 Contract With America).

Res ipsa loquitur.

BrianR
Good to see you around posting. I hadn't seen you for a while. I finally got around to visiting your blog about 3 weeks ago and man, you have a way with the pen. After reading that it feels like there couldn't be any other truth than what you just put down haha.

Option C is the Only Option
Support for the Republican Party is evaporating because of the lousy RINO candidates they choose. Bush Dole Bush McCain. Barf-o-rama. America needs a conservative party - let the RINOs go to the Democrats. The New American Nationalist Party. We need radical change. Back to the Constitution. De-fang the judicial dictators. Make all judges elected. Invade Mexico and make it part of the US. Eliminate all corporate taxes and all capital gains taxes. Flat tax. Eliminate EPA, HUD, IRS. Etc.

who is a RINO?
SanDiegoLeftCoast asked a good question at 2:51 - who is acceptable to vote for? How conservative / libertarian is conservative or libertarian enough?

As for me, I would have held my nose for Guilini, Romney, Tancredo or Huckabee. I would gladly have voted for Paul, Hunter or Thompson. All of them are flawed - some very much so. McCain was the only one in the GOP field this year that I found entirely unacceptable.

No, We Will Not
I saw a TV news reporter flip his hand and say, "Oh, the conervatives are going to come around vote for McCain." How offensive.

I have never voted Democrat. I simply cannot vote for the anti-conservative, McCain. Guess I'll be leaving that box blank this time.

The Republican party continues to gamble that conservatives will fall in line, because they percieve we have not better choice. I think they'll lose their shirts this time.

I'm starting to enjoy watching McCain crash and burn.

gf
do not leave it blank! vote for Barr if you must. A vote for someone else will make a statement. A no vote does nothing.

Replace the RINOS
I do agree with Wirs that we need to fight for all repubs in the short run. In the long run however, we must wrest control of our respective state parties from the RINOs. It is very apparent that liberals have taken over the party, though noone is saying it. Incessant spending and the need to get approval from dems, and media, must stop. Further, government expansion is out of control, and government intrusion is approaching criminal levels!
Can we give the supreme court and healthcare to the liberals, and the government so they can ruin it as they have Europe, and Canada? I say no! the government is terrible at everything they do! Liberals have proven to be wrong in almost everything they have pushed over the past 50 years.We so need to get as many Republicans voted in RINOS or not! For now...

BrianR
I will not try to defend my reasons for my decision. But I will tell you this; there are thousands,maybe millions who feel as I do about what is happening to our party.

Some,like you,would rather take a chance that it would make no difference which of them is elected..Obama or McCain. I do not believe it. With all McCains negatives,and I can name many, for myself,he does have a few positives.

Barack Hussein Obama has not one positive in my opinion. Every day he is getting more wild in thumbing his nose at what I believe is right. He can do no wrong in the eyes of his followers. They want us to be history.

You cite Arnold.He has been a disappointment to me and I know to you ,who are living there. If you are REALLY so disssatisfied,you could move. You could remedy it. That would not be an option with Obama. Where could you go to escape? We would be stuck for at least four years,maybe eight. That,to me is unthinkable. Sorry.




I vote option A
Our Constitution and the heart and soul of the Republican party are at stake.

Obama could never hold the respect of the world powers,if we're laughing at him you know they are.

CKHustler... Thanks, man!

I appreciate those kind words. Very much.

You're right about one thing, Rowly

I do hate Schwarzy, and I COULD move. That's certainly true.

But if everyone runs away from a problem, then what? Does it solve itself somehow?

I've never run from trouble in my life; that's not my way. I confront issues (and people, when necessary) head on, and always have.

I'm happy for you that you're satisfied with your decision, and I'm not making fun or being ironic. That's great.

But I'M also satisfied with MY decision.


gf
You've got that right. The only possible way that happens is if McCain picks a very solidly conservative veep and states he will not run a second time. Since neither of those things will happen, he can try to get elected without his base and let us know how that goes.

Rowly
Hey, while we may all disagree on this subject, there is no disrespect intended from anyone. You are entitled to your opinion and, while mine is different, yours is still valid. These Wirs' threads are probably the most anti-McCain areas on TH. I appreciate that you do not stoop to insulting those of us who will not vote for McCain. We are both doing what we believe (given the long view) is best for America. Have a nice day. cheers

deporting illegals
at 2:20 SVARA discussed deporting illegal immigrants. I like the idea of punishing "sanctuary cities" and getting rid of the anchor baby problem (amendment is not necessary - if they are here illegally they are not "subject to the jurisdiction" of the states).

It is critical that we:
- stop the flow of illegals into the country
- do not reward the ones already here with citizenship
- deport illegals caught breaking other laws here.

But I would hold off the push to deport the ones who are already here and have not broken any other laws. That incremental approach will be more likely to actually happen.

chris
If we eliminate all aid and make it so painful for employers to be caught with them they will leave on their own. Perhaps they will then concentrate in our liberal sanctuary states and let the citizens there enjoy the fruits of their liberal labors.

CVN65
Thanks.I would not expect anyone to change their opinion because of me. I have 'lost' many votes in my lifetime. I do not always go with the crowd. I study the person's history and I vote my conviction. If it proves wrong,I live with it.

I have no doubt about this one and I may lose it ,too. I can tell you, I did not vote for McCain in the primary. Even despised him. I have NEVER liked him for the way he has treated his fellow senators and especially how he has underminded us conservatives for years.

This is another matter. This is a matter of our very survival.I know this sounds as if I am insane. Believe me,I am very sane,and have been a long time watcher of things political. I know of what I write.

Thinking of some of the vilest people I can think of,I would prefer them to Obama. I hope and pray I am being paranoid. I don't think so,but I am very worried.

Peter Wirs = Mrs. Malaprop
--
I'd thought for a while there that Mr. Wirs had found a better ghostwriter, but apparently he's either been running through a series of such (each with his/her peculiar failings) or he's finding new ways to come up with words that do violence to common sense.

In college, I used to earn pizza money typing up the papers of fellow dormitory rats, and I thought my capacity for amazement had been exhausted by three years of muddling through the sorts of idiocies I keep finding every time I hit the Townhall.com hotlink to one of Wirs' columns.

Even though I was a science major (Biology) in college, it was astonishingly easy to out-think and out-write guys who had chosen the liberal arts as their principle field of study.

So to with "former firefighter" Peter Wirs, whose linguistic and conceptual ineptitudes extend to his absolutely predictable embrace of "Option A."

The indiscriminate, "co-dependent," festering idiocy of supporting:

"...all Republicans [even the most hideous and hateful RINOs] because America can’t afford the Obama-Pelosi-Reid left-wing troika..."

...which promises to do *ALMOST* as much damage to this nation as the complete destruction of Republican Party viability for which this flaming schmuck is now calling.

Some "RINO hunting," eh?

Wirs' solution for you conservatives, therefore, is to cope with the Mulatto Messiah's "left-wing" threat by abandoning the *RIGHT* to contest the socialist sonzabitches on their own ground, betraying your core constituencies and the principles of individual liberty in a "Just win, baby!" quest for a political victory that won't mean a goddam thing.

And you know it, don't you?

Does Wirs?

Ah, well. Demonstrated mental incompetence excuses so much....

--

BrianR
I am satisfied with my decision. Not satisfied that I have to support someone I have no respect for. I wish I had someone more to my liking.

I just used 'moving' for emphasis. It makes me wonder who is running away from a problem. You or me? Obama is MY problem and I intend to stay and fight to see that he is not my president. If I fail, I can say I gave it all I had to give.

If I took my toys and went home like a spoiled boy (not meaning you,Brian) and didn't play and he was elected,I would be physically ill,I think. I know that does not impress you,but it is what I think.

SJ
Pete only said he would "hunt" the RINOs; he never actually alleged that he would pull the trigger. Great smackdown. cheers

BrianR #124
Interesting topic. Although I am not convinced that purity in ideology is the route to victory. If you remember, Goldwater, with a pretty conservative ideology, lost in a landslide. Nixon, in 1972 won in a landslide. However in domestic policy, Nixon was probably to the left of Bill Clinton (Nixon proposed a universal health care plan, he created the Environmental Protection Agency, the Office of Health and Safety Administration, expanded the welfare state with Supplemental Security Income).

The republicans won in three landslides in 1980, 1984, 1988. In all of these, the personality of Ronald Reagan was critical (if you consider the 1988 election of Bush I as a referendum on Reagan). Was it his conservative ideology that was popular or was it Reagan himself? I think it was the man himself. Reagan didn't really govern as a doctrinaire conservative. He put troops in Lebanon without really knowing what he wanted to accomplish there, and later withdrew them after a car bombing. He gave amnesty to 3 million illegal aliens. It is true he took a hardline towards the soviets in the early part of his administration, but later on he signed an arms control agreement with Gorbachev.

However at a gut level, people liked Reagan. That's why he won elections. Also he did not do anything that was so controversial or questionable which would cause him to lose support. (Like Bush II did with the Iraq invasion). I'm not sure that the people who voted for Reagan would sign on to all items in the conservative platform. Most likely they would agree with some, and disagree with some.

Rowly
No conservative is going to harass anyone for voting for McCain. I personally have gone back forth in my mind about this. I have decided I won't vote for him. I completely understand your reasoning. I just think this way is a better way for our country in the long term. I was simply stating my reasons. If others see my reasons and vote with me...great...if not, well thats fine too.

Spoiled Americans
What is it when you say you want change? Do you want the Constitution changed? Do you want the tax code changed,so you can pay higher taxes? Do you want Liberal Judges for a lifetime on the federal bench, so they can continue to take away your freedom?

So far we travel where we want to go without have a stop point every so often, so someone else can decide if you can continue.

So far we have a choice of where we want to shop for food (at least we still have food), many communists countries fail to feed their people.

So far we can choose our doctors, hospitals and nursing home care.

All you spoiled brats out there, vote for those Liberals and then try and cry in your beer when there is no beer around.

Give up your love for this country just to prove you are a Democrat. Obama and the rest of the Liberal Democrats love people like you who can't think beyound the news. Oh yes, the MEDIA is so Liberal it stinks.

I just hope some of you wake up before you throw America under the bus, like Obama hopes you will.

Joy

SanDiego
Hawkins wrote an article about that exact thing with Reagan about a month back or so...perhaps longer. It was his reasons why people like Reagan or something, you can check it up. I think you will find that article right on with what you said, along with many more reasons.

CKHustler
That's O.K....We have five months. We both may have a mind change before then. It's possible. Who knows?

Yes Peter
You pose some very good questions. Once again though you use an intriguing illustration that one can take only so far. One has to save the "burning house" pretty early on or it will cost more to renovate it than to just build a new house like you want. I have been a Republican for many years and I am not convinced that with John McCain this "fire" hasn't already gone too far. It may take a while to build a new conservative "house" but I believe it can be done.

SanDiego re Reagan

Yes, Reagan made mistakes. However, he also acknowledged them; he called his signing amnesty into law the biggest single mistake of his administration.

But more importantly, he walked the walk as a conservative. Was he always successful in implementing his programs? Of course not; no one succeeds all the time. Further, he was saddled with a hostile Congress throughout all eight years of his administration.

But he was a cheerful True Believer, and made everyone else one, too. He didn't have to equivocate, or rationalize, or justify his positions. You just KNEW he believed what he said.

Not so with McCain, of course.


The constant denigration of "principles"

We who refuse to vote for McCain because of our conservative principles are repeatedly ridiculed for letting our principles dictate how we're going to vote for third-party or write-in candidates.

I'm sure the Founders would be absolutely shocked to hear such nonsense. This was a bunch of guys who put EVERYTHING on the line, including their own and their families' lives, over matters of principle in fomenting a Revolution against the legally constituted government under which they were ruled.

A national election is a profound and meaningful opportunity for the electorate to make its voice heard, and one of the few opportunities to agitate for change.

It's not the Raiders versus the Rams, some silly sports game that has no real impact on the direction the nation will take as it moves into the future.

My principles are at LEAST as important to me as yours are to you. You may not agree with me, but you make yourself look like a fool when you try to say that MY principles "don't mean anything" in making a decision as to whom I'm going to vote for if the election turns out some way that YOU don't like.

YOUR issues are important to YOU; MINE are important to ME.


our gang
In a previous post SJ extolled the virtue of P.J. O'Rourke's literary skill.

I just started "Peace Kills" and "Parliament of Whores" is up next.

I am thinking the subversives in our group would like this author...if the opening chapter of "Peace" is any indication.


Cheers!


`````
"Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys"
P.J. O'Rourke

BrianR


"If ever time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin"

- Samuel Adams

Yep, Anna

Unfortunately, to most people today, the name "Sam Adams" merely refers to a boutique beer.

"Patriots" is merely the name of a sports team.

I can't believe how far this country's sunk just in my lifetime. Astounding.



Option D
Vote for conservatives lower on the ticket, let McCain win or lose without the base. Amnesty either way it turns out.

Joy
Not "spoiled brats" but "uncompromising Americans". This has been tried before and is, in fact, what Pete Wirs is all about. Thanks for the insult, McCain still stinks.

Wake Up America or Die in Your Sleep
As much as I dislike having to vote for McCain there is no sane option. The Dems are plotting a BLOODLESS, MARXIST COUP via Obama's election coupled with veto-proof majorities in both houses: Take over the Supreme Court with at least three appointments over two pres terms and control it for the next decade. Then force a whole series of appellate court cases on the leftist cultural and policy agenda they haven't been able to legislate. Note the two recent decisions on immigration and terrorist habeas corpus. Expect legislative surrogate Supreme Court cases on the limits of the 1st Amendment, voting statutes, religious freedom, US sovereignty, world jurisprudence, affrimative action (not dead at all), school choice, union coercive election procedures, separation of powers, etc.... Then they push through fast track amnesty for illegal aliens, effectively eliminate border enforcement and viola' they have a choke hold on the control of the federal government through an entitlement-craving voting bloc. Just to make sure there is no grassroots opposition they impose the Fairness Doctrine via FCC regs which they can have upheld in a friendly SC. It's so easy to see their connect-the-dots game plan, it's frightening.

This time Wir is correct. The Dems MUST be soundly beaten, or at leat held in check, this fall before they assume a level of power that makes them indomitable short of a revolution.

WAKE UP AMERICA OR DIE IN YOUR SLEEP!!!

Waiting
There are those who will vote for Obama because they are waiting for government to provide them with more. I believe those who hold their noses and vote for McCain are no different. They are waiting for a another time and a more conservative leader. The mistake in that is they are waiting and expecting more to come to them. I believe that when you expect more to come to you, you yourself become less.
I want more from the Republican Party than a RHINO and fear of the other party.
We must demand more or accept the same.

CVN65
I still want to know what kind of surgeon you are?


We get inured to insults after a while don't you think?

Dr Chaz
I agree with all you say about Obama. You could also add he is a quasi Moslem, serious ramifications there.

That said, is McCain better?

He is also willing to hand over the country to his handlers. He is totally on board with the agenda for the NAU. He won't give us good judges.

We have to choose between a Marxist and a Fascist.

We are screwed either way.

Many countries
have re-built themselves in my own lifetime. Half a dozen countries were Communist for 50 years in Europe. Many of them are doing quite well now. Singapore suffered under Japanese occupation and communist Chinese pressure and has come through the mess smelling like a rose. If Poland and the Baltic countries can change at grassroot level an onerous govt backed by massive foreign power, we can certainly do so, should the great majority of the population see it as a necessity. We don't even need demonstrations and street upheaval, we have the vote. But the situation must be clear. Iraq could be turned into another Hawaii if the need was clear and agreed upon. It is the plausibility of PC nonsense believed by half the population that is causing paralysis and even conflict. McCain is a foggy blur. Obama is a clear-cut Liberal. Clarity is what is needed. Obama can indeed be the catalyst of change. The change may very well turn out to be different than his expectations.

The Late Norman . . .
I apologize to my posse. Your confidence in me is truly touching, but I haven't been worthy up it lately.

Twice in a row, I've been late to the party. The only excuse is that I'm on the road right now, so I can't hit "refresh" on Wirs columnists' page like a crack-addicted lab rat every 30 minutes, like I can back at the office (don't tell my boss!). :-)

You guys have done an excellent job holding down the fort. I promise to hold up my end better in the future . . .

What Republican Party? IT is RINO now
I pic option C as the RINO's are now a party to themselves.
The Republican party seems to have died 15 years ago.

WELL SAID BRIAN !!
Brian writes:

"Unfortunately, to most people today, the name "Sam Adams" merely refers to a boutique beer.

"Patriots" is merely the name of a sports team.

I can't believe how far this country's sunk just in my lifetime. Astounding."


BrianR #150
On the money, and not said enough. Conservative principles are not mere political strategies. They are the way things work. Asking a conservative to renounce his principles is like asking him to say black is white. Shades of George Orwell!!! A certain element of compromise is necessary, nothing and no one is ever perfect. But that point of compromise was reached and passed long ago. Here i stand. I can do no other.

Pistol

Anna
Sorry about that. If you are still checking, I am an oral/maxillofacial surgeon. Although I went to dental school and practice under a dental license, I completed a 4 year hospital residency right along with general and surgical specialists.

The last gasp of the damnable boomers!!
This election is getting the full court press that you're seeing because the baby boomers have only ONE last chance to ram trhough their Nanny State policies. In another 4-8 years we'll have enough people who came up in the Eighties who want to know who killed THAT prosperity and who will NOT vote for anti-growth, anti-prosperity, and anti-AMERICA Marxist Lefties. The tide of ideology is slowly turning and they are desperate to get O'Vomit in because he's NOT his own man!

I still want to know, other than George SoreA$$ who IS running this cur. He hasn't an original idea and can't put two words together with out Axelrod setting up his speeches for him on a teleprompter.

-Ray
NRA Life Member

CVN65
Interesting!

I don't presently have dental ins and went to the dental school. I seriously prayed God would give me a good student. My guy (4th yr) was good and a conservative! (Libs are thick on the ground here.) We had a lot of lively discussions. He was like, what if we end up with Hillary and McCain...it's worse! Obama and McCain.

He and his wife just left for NC, where he is doing a residency. They were driving and the grandparents were flying the kids out. For a going away present I copied a bunch of recorded books for them. (He had asked for suggestions)

It was a fun project.

Color of Water (one of my all time favorites!)
Epicenter
Men in Black
Undaunted Courage (where they were from)
The Water is Wide (where they were going, sorta)
PG Wodehouse (for laughs)

Four kids is a crew. How old are they?

Cheers!
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