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Sunday, June 28, 2009
Paul Jacob :: Townhall.com Columnist
Cap-and-trade: unread, undead
by Paul Jacob
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The House just passed the Waxman-Markey cap-and-trade carbon emissions control act. If it passes the Senate, expect the president — the bill’s pusher-in-chief — to sign it at first opportunity.

I have not read the bill, so I should not comment on it at length. But then, neither has any congressman read the now 1000-pages-and-plus wonder. So they should not have passed it.

We are supposed to believe it is a good bill because we must trust the congressional assistants who wrote it. If anything is a testament to “the power of belief” it's the enthusiasm for a bill that has not been read, much less understood.

One thing is certain: The cap-and-trade program will increase the cost of energy in the United States. It is essentially a big, fat tax increase on businesses and consumers . . . in the face of which, businesses and consumers will decrease activity, depressing the economy.

The White House and congressional leaders say the bill will create new “green” jobs. But increasing the cost of doing business does not spur employment in general. It will likely increase pressure to build plants and factories outside the U.S., and even the specific jobs created by such mandates tend to come at the expense of other jobs.

The most astute commentary on the bill, so far, rests on a comparison between today's darkening days and the darker days of the Great Depression, when that day's Congress and president rushed through the Smoot-Hawley Tariff . . . thereby digging the depression deeper, marching America into a scary, institution-threatening poverty that only ended in the aftermath of World War II.

Back in 1930, general political wisdom had it that protectionism protected the whole economy. There was scant evidence for this. From Adam Smith on, the studied understanding of protectionism was that it helped some (generally richer) people at the expense of other (generally poorer) folks.

But protectionism did make a plausible surface sense, like the minimum wage does to so many, today. And remember, in those days of yore, economists had not yet been bought off by the lure of state power and the allure of political prestige, so, almost to a man, they opposed the bill.

Then and now, politicians hate listening to economists when it comes to resisting the in-crowd wisdom. Skepticism about protectionism? How un-American! Lincoln was for trade restrictions and the protective tariff! How dare you oppose Lincoln?

Just so, Democrats, today, think it bad form to be skeptical of Al Gore’s trendy hysteria. Besides, he does have an awful lot of scientists on his side.

Indeed, the president and his new guard love to talk of “science” as if the pronouncements of scientists were utterly immune from political pressure and economic enticement. The fact that those scientists are generally paid for with tax-supported research grants doesn’t faze today's political leaders. And yet how many of the president's men — or the current Congress — would buy the science supported by tobacco companies? How many would hesitate to dismiss science paid for by oil companies?

The double standard regarding the misapplication of science still leans to favor those who like to do “great things” in government, leaning the other way from those who proceed cautiously regarding intrusive regulation, taxation, and prohibitions.

We witnessed this in the 20th century. Think of all those economists who pretended they could guide the economy. Now we may be witnessing it in scientists who have pushed the Waxman-Markey monstrosity.

The parallels here are striking. Today's leaders in economics and finance, until about nine months ago, confidently thought they could predict the future and manage the economy and banish risk with an elaborate mathematical and statistical arsenal.

Just so do today's climate scientists aim to model the long-term trends of the global ecosystem. They pretend they can predict where the “tipping points” are, and tell us why, with an air of bracing certainty, we must stop increasing CO2 atmospheric production immediately.

In a mere decade, we have witnessed two financial bubbles, the tech bubble and the housing finance collapse. What's the next bubble to expand only to burst? Columnist Steve Christ thinks that the Waxman-Markey regime would create a cap-and-trade bubble.

For that to happen, we would need a compliant Federal Reserve, hell-bent on pumping up the funds to feed it. Alas, Ben Bernanke, fearing a Greater Depression, will likely prove more than willing.

But the next bubble to burst may be far more salutary. In a few years enough data may build up, at long last, to prick the climate catastrophism bubble. By this I mean “the science” of panicky predictions. Yes, “global warming” may soon become an international embarrassment. And then we will witness a whole lot of experts skulking off to write their next research grant proposal in a well-deserved ignominy.

I just hope this happens in time for a new Congress to repeal Waxman-Markey -- before its most burdensome caps kick in, ensuring a long, ugly life to our deepening depression.

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About The Author
Paul Jacob is President of Citizens in Charge. His daily Common Sense commentary appears on the Web, via e-mail, and on radio stations across America.
 
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Twisted Scheme
A greater awareness and concern for the world, and our neighbors is nothing to be discouraged, but the truth is often twisted in what the popular media tells listeners, and that creates a misplaced concern and harms real people. Luckily there is a emerging conservative voice. Check out noteviljustwrong.com “Not Evil Just Wrong” is a film that is going to be released this fall. The film is an advocate of people and truth and will cause greater awareness where it needs to be revealed.

Smoot-Hartly bill
It was Not the Smoot-Hawley bill. It, actually, was the Smoot-HARTLY bill. Anyway, Smoot-Hartly or Cap and Trade, they were and are bad for the country. The idiots in congress passed the C&P (without) even (reading) it! They should ALL serve jail time for misrepresentation of their constituents.

Thanks
To the Republicans who had the courage to Vote No on this horrible abuse of the Constitution. But the 8 Republicans who cared more about themselves and this country and voted yes to tax the American People and destroy more of our jobs, is exactly why I am reluctant to support the RNC/Republicans with my money. A special thanks to all the Republicans from Texas. Not one of them voted for the Government to rob us or to continue to make our lives in America miserable. I was so proud of my Texas Republicans who did not Vote for this abuse, that I have decided each one of them will get a donation from me. It may be a small one because I still have some major trust issues to resolve. No one knows they are RINOs until they cast votes.

Clean environment? -- NO!

Anyone who thinks a TAX will change the weather belongs in a padded cell.
Over 31,400 Scientists say AGW is a hoax!
http://www.petitionproject.org/

Government by Bunko Scam has nothing to do with Environment.
Even Australia & Japan who started this AGW scam have backed off of it.

The objective of this AGW hoax is power to micro-manage the lives of citizens.
Cap & Trade is a massive tax on energy.
YOU will pay MUCH more to drive your car, heat or cool your home & cook your food.
The cost of manufacturing & transportation will skyrocket thus sending many jobs overseas.
(Maybe YOUR job!)
This will be accompanied by runaway inflation forcing retirees on fixed income and the working poor who live from paycheck to paycheck to accept the Government dole the tax is intended to provide.
The intent is to forcefully create a permanent dependent class that can't be restored to their previous independent state.

These Politicians are DELIBERATELY doing grievous harm to the American people.
Just voting them out of office is not enough punishment for what they are doing.
They should be stripped of all their assets just like they do to Drug Dealers!

Thank you tinsldr2!
Thank you for taking the time to read this monstrosity. You must have a serious case of insomnia because just reading the few lines you wrote, I found myself nodding off. It is scary stuff though. Note how they aren't requesting anything, they are ordering. Zounds! It reads like a military directive to commanding officers in the field!!!!

Modern day alchemists:
I can now understand why alchemists were so mistrusted in Medeival times. People thought they could make gold out of lead which,in their greed, would ruin the economies of their day. Alchemists of today (Al Gore is their poster boy) are trying to make gold out of carbons, which also, in their greed, would ruin the economies of our day. There is nothing new under the sun.

Using scientific methods
of gathering quantitative and qualitative data, and using inductive reasoning to make a generalizzation from specific observations, could I not say that anyone who purchases a can of soda or beer has to pay a carbon tax? Can anyone see how silly this can and will get? Oh, that isn't all. If you buy a can of baked beans, or pinto beans, won't you have to pay an extra carbon tax for those products? If you have pets in your home, you will be liable to a carbon tax for their farts. When the government census is finished, won't you have to pay a fart tax for each individual living in your home? If you own cattle or horses, get ready to pay a prohibitative tax on those. Hog, chicken, and turkey farmers will pay huge carbon taxes in order to allow their animals to do what they do best. Can you now picture the result? If the whole government plan is to reduce CO2 gasses being released,then there will be less farmers of these food products, higher and higher prices, less and less supplies. Hello bread and turnips diet. You won't be able to afford cabbage because that causes gas and on and on ad nauseum. Believe me, these little Nazi worms will find all ways to "protect the planet" and your Jimmy Carter "misery index" will be off the chart.

Dissecting the bill pt 2
Ok so the bill authorizes a CARBON STORAGE RESEARCH CORPORATION whose purpose is to administer a program to accelerate the commercial availability of carbon dioxide capture and storage technologies and methods, including technologies which capture and store, or capture and convert, carbon dioxide.

THe corporation will administer grant money for new technology research and it specifies who will make up the corporation and it is to be established by industries that currently produce power and run by the industy appointed private board members who wont be paid for the job (its in the bill that the board doesnt get paid).

BUT THEN CONGRESS IS IMPOSING TERM LIMITS ON THE MEMBERS of this BOARD!

TERMS.—Corporation Board members shall serve terms of 4 years and may serve not more than 2 full consecutive terms.

UMMM HELLO, IT IS CONGRESS THAT NEEDS TERM LIMITS!!

and I need Coffee

Dissecting the actual bill
Just started reading the bill (insomnia is a wonderous thing)

from the Bills Text:
If the Administrator determines that China and India have not adopted greenhouse
gas emissions standards at least as stringent as those set
forth in this Act, the Administrator shall notify each Member of Congress of his determination, and shall release his
determination to the media.

So now we attempt to force our policies on other soverign Nations? What is Congress supposed to do if China Laughs at us? What if they threaten to flood the market with our bonds?
Then on page 48 of the bill and it says:
Not later than 1 year after the date of enactment of this Act, the Administrator, in consultation with the Secretary of Energy and the heads of such other relevant Federal agencies as the President may designate,
shall submit to Congress a report setting forth a unified and comprehensive strategy to address the key legal, regulatory and other barriers to the commercial-scale deployment of carbon capture and sequestration

So after all 1000 pages of this monstrosity they still haven't addressed the strategy on how to implement it? And the "appointed" not elected guy in charge will report his plan to congress without them needing to vote on it's approval?


Justin
What you say is absolutely correct, however, by those 8 crossing over the democrats now have a crutch of "bi-partisanship" that they should not have. This congress should be noted for what it is, a house of thieves (Jefferson, Frank etc) and a house of losers (next year)

Rick and Know Nothing
Rick complains that most people posting have not read the bill completely. It is not an easy read because it is very dry language. I am currently on page 66 of the PDF which can be found here:
http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=1 11_cong_bills&docid=f:h2454rh.txt.pdf

Which by the way shows as 1092 pages on my browser. His may be different or does he reference an old version of the bill? The version I listed is most current one in the house. I will follow with some thoughts on the actual bill in a seperate post.

Gore and Pelosi have this in common
"Ever since I found out AlGore had a financial interest in these "carbon credits" all this had made much more sense to me....follow the money...screw the ecology"

Let's not forget that Pelosi stands to profit handsomely since she recently invested in "green" technology. These illustrious folks seem to think we know nothing. Goes to show you just how imbecilic these guys really are.

Rick and Know Nothing
Rick complains that most people posting have not read the bill completely. It is not an easy read because it is very dry language. I am currently on page 66 of the PDF which can be found here:
http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=1 11_cong_bills&docid=f:h2454rh.txt.pdf

Which by the way shows as 1092 pages on my browser. His may be different or does he reference an old version of the bill? The version I listed is most current one in the house. I will follow with some thoughts on the actual bill in a seperate post.

Subsidies?!
Why should their be subsidies? Why not just let that money remain in the hands of the people to begin with, since we all know just how well the government handles these things? Outrageous.

This adminsistration is attempting too many things at once rather than focusing on doing one thing (uh, the economy?) and doing it well. The result will be disastrous.

No to cap and trade, no to public health plans, no, no, no, to more spending until we get unemployment rates down, and no until the Fair Tax plan is passed. For God's sake, let people breathe. Their are far too many ambiguities in cap and trade and public health plans.

Can't lay this on those 8 Repubs
While it was preposterous that they voted for it, if you actually watched the vote live (like I did), you'd have noticed that a large Democrat bloc waited until the very last second to vote. Once the vote breached the passing threshold, all the remaining Democrats voted No on the bill. They were all in tightly contested districts and the party is well aware of the damage this bill will wrought so they allowed many Democrats to vote No, but only if the bill was going to pass anyway.

There was no way the bill was going to fail the House. If all the Republicans voted no, 8 of those Democrats that voted no would have just voted yes.

Angry
I am so f'in angry at that arrogant, greedy, power hungry bunch of worthless politicians in Washington. There are no statesmen anymore. That is a conflict of interest if many members of Congress have money invested in companies that will benefit by the passage of the Cap and Trade bill. All these lefties were screaming about the conflict of interest with the Vice President's connections with the company (I can't make my brain remember the name of the company) that benefited with contracts given in Iraq. Now where are they with this conflict of interest? Hypocracy!!!
How f'in stupid can you be raising energy costs in the middle of a resession? This shows that Congress only cares about power, control and their own financial situation.
Vote the whole freakin group out. Those of you in CA, DW, NJ, NY, IL and WA, you see who you need to vote out. Make sure they HEAR from you. Let them know their days in Congress are numbered.

Peter, you're right. The no new taxes
is being taken away, but not until 2012. At least so far. However, if you live in Minnesota, like I do, you would expect much higher taxes in a short time. Why? because the idiot Tax-Pawlenty is again cutting municipal funds to jack up property taxes. He's cutting spending unilaterally, as a TYRANT would do!

This is the Communist that Pawlenty is. He's the one at the top of his Polutburo making decissions for the peasants. We can go about our collective trying to keep ourselves fed and housed, but he can fly off to the governors conference and act the bigshot.

This deadbeat governor is a farce of a GOP'er. Why so many voted for him is evidence of how political wrangling goes for your misinformation. If Minnesotans actually could stop and read their property tax increase time-line while Tax_Pawlenty has been in office, they would scream!!

Have any of you bothered to read the 800
pages (pdf) of H.R.2454 which is now H.R.2998?

Have any of you bothered to read any of the NON-partisan Congressional Budget Office's report on the bill for "American Clean Energy and Security Act of 2009"?

Did you read the dissenting views from pages 725+? No, then why are you here bothering to post?

You know NOTHING!

NJ, LoBiondo (R)........
Voted yes and I did e-mail him to tell him he's lost a vote. I've spent some time reading the bill. Acually, the summary. In it it says that the cost of energy will increase and the cost of utilities will increase. The low income people will have subsidies. So, once again the middle class gets hammered. Even many on the left side voted no. This was no landslide. The vote passed by 7 votes. The government is slowly bleeding the cash out of our pockets. Just when you think you can tread water, Uncle Sam pulls us back down under. So much for the "No Taxes under $250,000.

Unread
Perhaps there is hope: if no one has read the bill before passage, perhaps no one will read it after passage.

useful idiots
"So what ever happened to Obama's campaign Pledge that all legislation would be posted for 5 days before being voted on??"

Obama is a liar. Obamatons are idiots.

Misstatement at CONGRESS barage
It was actually DEMOCRATIC Congresswomen...here in LAS VEGAS On Sat., the 28th.

A little something else to note about the House vote on CAP AND TRADE, these REPUBS should be noted and remembered for voting YAY on the bull:
v=Mary Bono Mack R (CA)
Mike Castle R (DW)
Mark Steven Eirk R (IL)
Leonard Lance R (NJ)
Frank LoBiondo R (NJ)
John McHugh R (NY)
Dave Reichert R (WA)
Chris Smith R (NJ)

Repealing of Waxman-Markey won't be easy
The problem in hoping for a repeal of Waxman-Markey lies in the difficulty in getting Congress to admit a mistake, then getting them to pass a repeal, then to get the President, whoever it might be, to sign the repeal. Once there are vested interests in the industries involved in this program, lobbying against repeal will be fierce, and articles of faith, which is what anthropogenic global warming is, die very slowly.

Hawkins
The only person I have known who actually knows
what cap and trade is - and on top of that has
participated in it (yes, it has been around for
a few years now) - is a high blood pressure
Republican.

Congress barage
Here in Las Vegas yesterday our Rep Congresswomen we out and about trying to convince us of the merits of this bill! BULL! Some simple points, although there are many; in the USA we produce 17% of the world's CO2. 'The Bill' calls for reducing emissions by 17% by 2020. Do the math that isn't even 3%. By that time the places were there are no regulations will have benefitted by more and more of our manufacturing going off shore, ie, China, etc., thus contributing a lot more than a mere 3% to the problem! Next retrofitting all public lighting, fixtures, bulbing, etc., when we're not even ready and finally, the added costs with mandatory conditional energy audits on home sales and fines and regulations and all the more government control!!!!!! Jan ’08 comrade BO tells us all while on the campaign trail; “necessarily skyrocket increases in energy costs”…coal, natural gas, etc, regulating water, air, production, the creation of wealth (for some) and diminishing the standard of living for most middle Americans. Write, call, email congress and the White House...say NO! And, plan to attend a Tea Party on the 4th. God bless America!

Tell Bono, LoBiondo...
...and the rest of the "Cap-And-Trade Eight" turncoats that their time in high office is AS GOOD AS OVER!!!

They had their chance to show where they stand on energy policy. They chose to join the other side.

Don't bother telling them to change their votes! They already cast their votes, and in doing so they've taken the one step that's put them beyond redemption!

Vote them all out of office with a vote of NO CONFIDENCE and set an example for anyone else in the House or Senate who feels like "crossing the aisle!"

From here on in, all GOP aisle-crossers are to be regarded as deserters and punished for their transgression!

No more "three strikes!" Just ONE, like the "Cap-And-Trade eight," and your political career is dead and buried!

And when We, the People kill it and bury it (and force you to watch) then you can go do whatever you want... but never again in politics, pal! You can color that door as SHUT to you!

Stewart asks an important question
but Stewart, you have to accept that regardless of the merits of your question (and a lot of us are right there with you on this) the Supremes will never, I repeat, never, rule in such a manner as to vacate the Pretender-in-Chiefs legitimacy to be our President.

They don't want to see anything resembling what's happening in Iran. Despite the fact this man is a fraud and is not qualified to be where he is, no one on the Supreme Court is going to support anything to the effect that removes him from office.

We have to accept and recognize this fact, regardless of the injustice that accompanies it. IT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN!! Get over it!

Cap and Trade side note
I wonder why everyone is so concerned about any of the bills being pushed onto the American public without first finding out one very important fact. "Is Obama a natural citizen of the United States." We somehow have not gotten an answer to that question and if we did, all of this just might go away if he can not show us his "legal" Birth certificite, but no one is pushing for the answer, why?

Trading Tons Of CO2 Credit Scam !

The Market Exchanges got a New Instrument to make money on ,while The Corporations Pass On The Carbon Emissions Credit Tonnage Cost to The Consumer/Worker ,as usual.

There's No Free Lunch Goin' Down Here.

Big Government Socialist Engineers Fleece The Consumer/Workers once again,as usual.

Had Enough Yet ?

INDEPENDENCE DAY TEA PARTY REBELLION !

THE 4TH OF JULY 2009 !

Disrespect The Big Government Sucker Scammers !

The criminal Shumer ...
may be correct about people not caring. The Michael Jackson jokes are flying fast and furious and very few know anything about cap and trade. They do appear to "KNOW" that doctors and insurance companies are thieves and the Lord Obama is going to even things out.
Amazing how venal and petty the masses are. The only difference between these people and the 'Great Unwashed' is apparently their bathing habits.

A giant step towards Marxism
Lies, manipulation, intimidation and bribes were used to force the House to pass Obama’s economy killing bill! House members were not given time even to read the bill! Corruption and coercion have reached levels previously seen only in Marxist dictatorships like those of Cuba or Venezuela.

Obama’s Cap and trade is another giant step towards Marxism — and the corruption, poverty, enslavement, destruction and despair that Marxism entails.

Obama is working much faster than Hugo Chavez at destroying the economy and imposing Marxism. No wonder the Russians are gloating:

From Pravda: “…the American descent into Marxism is happening with breath taking speed, against the back drop of a passive, hapless sheeple, excuse me dear reader, I meant people…” http://english.pravda.ru/opinion/columnists/107459-america n_capitalism-0

We must do whatever is necessary to support those ready to defend us and push out all those selling us out to Obama and his accomplices.

The numbers
8 GOP CAP AND TRADE WHO VOTED YEA

Call them and tell them to CHANGE their vote.

Mary Bono Mack CA- 45th Palm Springs
202-225-5330 / 760-320-1076

Mike Castle DEL
202-225-4165 / 302-428-1902

Mark Kirk IL-10 North Chicago,
202-225-4835 / 847-940-0202

Leonard Lance NJ 7 Central NJ
202-225-5361 / 908-518-7733

Frank LoBiondo NJ 2 Atlantic City
202-225-6572 / 609-625-5008

John McHugh, NY 23 Watertown,
202-225-4611/315-782-3150

Dave Reichert, WA 8th
202-225-7761/206-275-3438

Chris Smith, NJ -4th Trenton
202-225-3765/609-585-7878

Still no liberal defender?
Nobody eager to step forward and defend this? Not even somebody just showing up to unload some ad hominem attacks or something?

That is an interesting idea though. Start spreading recall petitions around for Congress critters when it is obvious they are passing laws without even reading them. Sounds like a solid excuse for firing them.

Change you can believe in
Bono Mack, Castle, Kirk, Lance, LoBiondo, McHugh, Reichert, Smith under House rules, can change their votes on Cap and Trade until Wed, July 2.

Call, fax and email them. Tell them you want the to CHANGE their vote!

Cap and Trade is a Hoax, Obama a crook
Stop, Stop, Stop - NO ONE read the bill? Every individual that voted for it who didn't read it needs to be hung. Enough of these criminals in congress and puppet boy Obama. Again, it isn't him who is orchestrating all of this - he is but the arrogant spokes model. Without a teleprompter he struggles to say "hello". We can't wait until 2010 - we need to expunge these fools from our nation's capitol now!

cap and trade
Just a thought from a dumb old man. Has anyone ever thought that this is algore's way of getting back at the people because we did not put his sorry a--(unacceptable word) in the white house? Ever since 2000 he has been on a rampage against the people of this country. Again just a thought.

Carbongate


By INVESTOR'S BUSINESS DAILY

Posted Friday, June 26, 2009 4:20 PM PT

Climate Change: A suppressed EPA study says old U.N. data ignore the decline in global temperatures and other inconvenient truths. Was the report kept under wraps to influence the vote on the cap-and-trade bill?

On Friday, the day of the vote, the Competitive Enterprise Institute said it was releasing "an internal study on climate science which was suppressed by the Environmental Protection Agency."

--snip--

In the release, the institute's Richard Morrison said "internal EPA e-mail messages, released by CEI earlier in the week, indicate that the report was kept under wraps and its author silenced because of pressure to support the administration's agenda of regulating carbon dioxide."

http://www.ibdeditorials.com/IBDArticles.aspx?id=3309117572 13432

=======================================

This has NOTHING to do with the climate -- it has everything to do with government CONTROL of your lives and excessive taxation. Please contact your senator and ask them to vote NAY on this bill.

http://www.senate.gov

Ms Kelly and ChaCha, and et al
Wow!!! It's great to see that most of us are right on top of this thing.

Ms Kelly, my only disagreement with you is your reference to "in effigy" as I would be in the camp of things being more literal:)

And ChaCha, I think you are giving them much too much credit that it will only take 2 years!!
I am concerned that they will never get it.

I think 2010 is going to be another 1994 unless ACORN (or whatever their new iteration is going to be called) is allowed to bring about their subversion.

The sleeping American giant, the one that really is an unbelievably tolerant and understanding entity (despite what Leftists are always portraying us as) is going to awaken and say keep your stinking hands off of our freedom!!! Hopefully, we can spank the idiocy out of the Repugnants, and send the Demoncrats packing to crawl back to hide under the slimy rocks they crawled out from, and remake our great nation back into a functioning republic.

I surely hope so, because I don't think we're going to get too many more chances to do so.

ANYONE REMEMBER?
The 'Promise' of 5 DAYS for the American people to read ALL Bills before congress?
OH, like ALL those other 'Promises'--were they just 'figments' of our IMAGINATION?
Well, we either 'Imagined' barry's 'promises', like no earmarks, no lobbyists, high ethics (how high did gueithner cheat on his taxes?), only raising taxes on the rich, jobs etc. OR, that's right, he is (and always has been) a FRIGGIN LIAR.
So, when we're told government (he) DOESN'T want to run and control banks, Fannie and Freddie, the Federal Reserve, the auto industry, public sector companies, all education, all health care, the census, the media, State governments, everyone's savings and investments, our Military, the FBI, the CIA, MOTHER NATURE and GLOBAL CLIMATE------
REMEMBER
When barry says what he doesn't want to run or control, it's just a 'figment' of our imagination.

PV @4:16PM
What can I say; I was being conservative (pun intended). The fact is that you are probably even low in your estimation of the eventual costs. All we can be certain of, is that it will cost a lot.

My point was that these costs could well spell the end to the nanny state. Once Joe Sixpack, Jane Doe and their friends start having to pay for this nonsense the people will turn against Obama and his allies in Congress. Progressive ideas only flourish as long as they don’t impact people’s wallets.

Suprising lack of liberals here
I mean surely there must be one or two out there who will defend this thing? I'd certainly like a few questions answered. First, where did the "groundswell" of public demand for this come from? I don't recall a lot of "cap and trade" rallies or editorials or petitions. What body of The People was clamoring for making it more expensive to live in America? Were Congressmen flooded with letters, emails and phone calls?

I suspect this originates from The Party. Not The People. And the creation of "green jobs"? This is demand-side economics. The market isn't calling for green energy. Artificially trying to create demand for it with the force of law won't create anything real or wanted. Or efficient. I like my standard of living just the way it is. So...liberals? Any comments?

Pelosi and her ilk bought into Al Gore's
scheme of making money on 'green'. Now she's pushed through the means to make it profitable for her, Markey, Waxman, GE, IBM and all their cronies. Their save-the-world senario is geared to making the everyone except them pony up and fatten their wallets. Why do you think they don't bother to read the bill or allow the minority the opportunity to do so before the vote? And of course the propaganda wing in the main stream media is going to do their best to cover their backsides by continuing to cover Michael Jackson, Farrah, and Billy Mays deaths non-stop instead of telling us exactly what is in that bill that we're going to have to pay for.

Congressional Cap & Trade
I am forced to disagree with those who believe that the majority of the HOUSE are stupid. They will require at least 2 more years of good conservative education to rise to that level. As to corrupt, greedy, unread, marxist, partisan and arrogant I have no arguement.

Where the he--
was the U.S. Chamber of Commerce when this got passed? Asleep?

Anybody with any persuasive ability at all should have been able to persuade these Congressmen that businesses and consumers alike will be coming after them to hang them in effigy when they get the bill for this reckless legislation.

far left scam or treason?
the far left has committed treason. are we going to let them get away with it?????

Russ
Richard (D) Morris is a very smart strategist and is against governement intrusion into something the market capitalism can rsolve better. What he himself believes is irrelevant! He is not a climatologist; you know, those people that cannot predict the weather for two hours in advance! Don't discount D for what he said, unless you fully understand him. Just read his Catastrophe book!

AL GORE WILL BECOME A BILLIONAIRE
if this energy bill is passed. Nancy Pelosi, Congressman Waxman and Marley, other congressmen and GE who owns NBC will become much more wealthly if it passes. They all own large amounts of stock in energy companies which will benefit from this bill. GE is sitting already up to build the wind turbines.

This energy bill is not about Cap and Trade. It is about I WIN, YOU LOSE.

I, being Congressmen/women and GE.

You, being We The People.

unread legislation
how about a bill that requires all bills be read by all congressmen before they are voted on or they can't vote, part of same bill requires a minimum votes or you must resign?

Richard Morris
I sent a post this morning saying that Richard Morris stated on Fox and Friends that he believes in anthropogenic Global Warming. Well, that's him off my list. Anyway, the server rejected the post because the shortened version of the name Richard is verboten on this board. Can you believe it? Even Townhall is censored.

13-Bravo 2:10pm
I think we will be very fortunate if the added cost to each of our families is only $1000/yr. I've heard estimates of $3000 and more. And I think those are all direct increases in costs to us for heating, electricity, and gasoline.

When you consider hidden costs, and also the opportunity costs that will come out of all this, I bet the true value is much higher.

Think about the new barriers to entry placed on people, like our children, who will be wishing to start a business in the future and will either be prevented from doing so because they cannot acquire the credits due to their scarcity, or cannot afford to buy them because of their cost.

The current big energy companies are essentially being bribed to go along with this because they will probably obtain their initial set of credits from the government free. They will even be able to make some money off of them by selling those they don't immediately use. We're all being played like a fine violin, but we're going to end up with a broken banjo.

JohnF
You are absolutely correct that this is all about the money. Al Gore is in so many schemes, all based on profiteering on the climate war to "save the planet" being forced on the American people (and actually world economy) that it makes your head spin. He has major investments with two venture capital companies, one of which he owns, a cable TV network on which to push his spin-meistering, a firm that sells/secures carbon offsets for guilty liberals, and recently has acquired a significant position in a software product that will be used to monitor and regulate the entire carbon credit trading scam.

He also has huge investments in a partnership with Maurice Strong (UN strongman and climate schemer)for the production of a new type of automobile in China. Wonder where GM will be getting their "Green" cars from. What suckers you union people are if you think you are going to be the beneficiaries of all this collusion.

We are now being "ruled" by an organized crime mob who just happen to have a flag on the wall.

Follow the money
Ever since I found out AlGore had a financial interest in these "carbon credits" all this had made much more sense to me....follow the money...screw the ecology

Obama deception
I think the web site where the dvd can be found is http://www.infowars.com hosted by a Alex Jones

Roy in Fla
I have watched the entire "Obama Deception" video here on the internet. There is a dvd. I have intended to buy it. But, haven't done so yet. It is ALL about the one world gov't. Nobama is just using the impotent repugnants minority status to push this traitorous agenda thru the legislative process to give it the mantle of legitimacy. There need to be NATIONAL SHOWINGS of the Obama Deception with Bob Basso/Thomas Paine videos at the end in local theaters and other civic venues. The ENTIRE US Congress should be forced to watch also. Maybe they would realize all of America out here doesn't sit on front porches strumming banjo's spittin tobacco juice.

REPEAL
To save the economy and prevent people from living in poverty and/or freezing to death this bill will have to be repealed if it gets thru the senate and becomes law.

Jacobs wrong about the Fed
The Fed doesn't have to fund this monstrosity for it to turn into another "bubble." The mechanism itself of creating a commodity based on hot air and having people pay money to buy credits and then make money by selling them to other people, all based on nothing real changing hands, cannot do anything but turn into a bubble.

As the nonsense underpinning this insanity becomes clearer, anyone holding the credits will scurry to unload them to some unwitting stooge. The Leftists in government will start trying to prop up the idiocy by all manners of legislative mischief. However, ultimately truth will win out and the entire house of cards will come crashing down. Whoever has invested in this system and is still holding the credits when the music stops will be financially destroyed in just the same manner as the recent housing collapse destroyed those holding the derivatives and credit default swaps. And in similar fashion, innocents in the private economy will also be devastated as collateral damage.

Our only hope is that this thing dies a whimpering death in the Senate due to the inability to obtain 60 supporters.

Repeal in 2010 & 2012
Look at it this way; let the idiots do as much damage as they can. Once people are paying another $1000.00 plus a year for their heat and/or electricity, I expect that folks will finally begin to wake up. With the exception of the last general election (where rhetoric and feel good politics ruled the day) the average voter makes his/her selection in the voting booth based on their own wallets. The one thing we can depend on the liberals to do is to ruin the economy and cost the average folks money.

Give it a year or so and watch what happens. I’m betting that all the conservatives will have to do is promise to repeal this and other bad legislation to win in 2010 and 2012.

Richard
Good article, but wrong on the Blue Lap Dog thing.

"If Speaker Nancy Pelosi fails to push through her bill, it will be because rural and Blue Dog Democrats fret about the economic ramifications."

Unfortionatly our Blue Lap Dog Shuler voted for this bill in the house.

FACT
is that even IF this " cap & trade " were to work here it in no means dose anything to China or India who at this time are the two largest air poluters and up & comming countries, as far as industreal developing countries.... so what good dose this cap & trade do for us??? not a thing..

What? No trolls??!!!
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124597505076157449.html

Above is a nice little article I wanted to share. Had to google it a second time to get the link, and misdirected myself to the new republic's reaction to it, which included this:

"Well, to take a regular position on the WSJ editorial page is to admit that one has always been a talentless hack..."

Sound familiar?

I have no discernible excuse for my confidence that the Senate will not be forwarding this bill to the White House ("don't need a Weatherman to know which way the wind blows...?") Maybe it's the fact that I ran into two lifer-lefties (read: "guys my age") manning a card table in front of a grocery store yesterday morning, trying to drum up support for "health care" and "THE" environment.

There we were, fit as fiddles an a lovely Saturday morning. Me, concerned about getting out of debt; they, well, oblivious to debt? debt be damned? savin' that planet?

I der not know. C & T may be "undead" but I don't think it's got no legs.

These are the traitors
and their phone numbers:

Mary Bono Mark R-CA 202-235-5330
Mike Castle R-DE 202-255-4165
Mark Steven Kirk R-IL 202-255-4835
Leonard Lance R-NJ 202-255-5361
Frank LoBiondo R-NJ 202-255-6572
John McHugh R-NY 202-255-4611
David Reichert R-WA 202-225-7761
Chris Smith R-NJ 202-255-3765

Chris Smith's staff said, *It won't hurt NJ too much.* Whadda joke--and I voted for him to replace Jim Saxton.

Bork 'em.

Boehner tried to delay the vote until after the 4th break by actually reading the bill on the floor. If the Reps. hadn't caved, the bill would not have passed. Now it has to be stopped in the Sen.

Sen. 202-224/225-3121--also for amnesty, hate leg., and *healthcare.*


A Long Fight
Policies for profit, corrupt and dishonest computer software, manipulation of data, gloom and doom scenarios are what MGW science is based on.

The head guru of NASA GISS that the climate Nazi's rely on for most of their data has been arrested for obstructive demonstrating in coal country. So much for unbiased science.

Most people are not willing to inform themselves or others on this camouflaged power grab. The Senate vote will be a long fight of arm twisting to buy the votes of the ones that oppose this treasonous bill.

Political Exam Needed
Most reasonably educated Americans can read words, but how many read meanings? Before anyone is elected to any office, the public should demand a comprehensive examination of all contenders to find out if they truly understand the bills they will be working on and passing or not passing. If, as has been said, HR 2454 was passed by hype and not investigation solely because of pressure from Pelosi and Obama, and not thoroughly read and understood by all of the Representatives, then the American people need to do some "House" cleaning! All of us can check how our Representatives voted easily now. I know that out of Oregon's five Representatives, three voted for it and two voted against it. If it is as bad a solution to our problems as many say and if it makes it through the Senate, where the next test will occur and Obama rapidly signs it and it becomes law, I know three Representatives who should be looking for a new profession or be sent back to the profession they came from, it there is any justice in this world. If every American who cares about this nation did the same thing, Congress might just realize that scratching out a living for most of us is a daily fight and we expect them to help not add more burdens on us. If they aren't smart enough to know this, then we should tell them when we vote them out of office! Let's test them constantly and let them know we are testing them, so, watch it!

Clifton L. West

The "One TARP per Year" Secret
The investments required on the part of US consumers, businesses and industries to actually achieve the reductions in carbon emissions mandated by Waxman-Markey are approximately $700 billion (One TARP) per year between now and 2050, or a total of ~$30 trillion. Those investments are in addition to any federal revenue stream generated by allowance sales or auctions.

The people who invest that #30 trillion would reasonably expect a return of ~10% per year on their investments. Those returns alone, on the investments net of depreciation, would add ~$1.5 trillion to the cost of every product and service we consume.

Standard Operating Procedure
Once again, our representatives voted in favor of a bill, that most of them most likely did not read, and if they did not read it, they do not know what the ramifications of the bill will be. Has anyone thought of the real possibility that this is not the exception to the rule, but rather the rule, i.e. that our representaives often vote in favor of a bill that they did not read or understand?

REPRESENTATION? OF WHO?
Voting on and passing LAWS (Bills) which haven't been read? Why bother with congress? Randomly choosing people (warm bodies) off the streets and having them vote would be no different.

This is beyond IRRESPONSIBLE. But what do politicians care? Their lives don't change, they have pocket-fulls of taxpayers money, plenty to pay for increased taxes if they happen to pay their taxes in the first place and plenty to pay up when they're caught for cheating on their taxes. Increased cost of food, gas, utilities and everything else that is skyrocketing--no problem, they still have plenty left and ways to get more. No worry for politicians health care--our money buys them the best. No worry about retirement, we pay for the their continuous exorbitant life styles.
So what do the politicians care what any Bill says or how it affects the American people. They ALL know, whatever is in any Bill BENEFITS ALL politicians AND that is their definition of BI-PARTISANSHIP.

Carbon Emissions Scam !

Scammers ,such As Canada's Maurice Strong and His Schemer Buddy AlGore are "Playin' The Suckers " !

Had Enough Yet ?

INDEPENDENCE DAY TEA PARTY REBELLION !

THE 4TH OF JULY 2009 !

ROAST THEM WEENIES !

--The Obama Deception--
Tells it all. The Elitists who Buy their seats in the House and Senate, are ALL Globalists, bought and paid for, by the International Banking Cartel!!--AND-- The[SNOT] FEDERAL RESERVE BANK-- [You think it's owned by the U.S. Fed. Govt., but, it'snot]!! It's Owned by The Bank Of England. For Global Govt. to succeed, the U.S.A. must be destroyed. They can't do it with Bullets, so they are using the BANKS. "Big Gay Al" Gore, and the rest of the Commies are now in control. G.E. stands to get even larger than it is Now, with "Green Energy Technology", The "Global Warming" HOAX, and Cap and Trade. We, the people, will have our MOBILITY taken away by this hoax! The Fairness Doctrine and National Health-Care will complete the process. We will be an enslaved People under a Totalitarian Dictatorship.

flastorm
Re: FlaStorm
I must agree "It is ALL about CONTROL".
Add to this "Never let a good crises go to waste" the following.....If there is no crises, create one!!!

Ben Stein got it right...
part 1
THANKS, Mr. Jacob.... for continuing to fight for this [likely] 'dead horse.' But Ben Stein got it right... none of this is really about taxes, or the economy, or jobs, or national debt..., nor climate nor CO2..., nor even an SC justices.

It is ALL about CONTROL - of all of the above, maybe, but most especially, control of the American mind and spirit, and surely nothing can dampen the spirit like a full-blown depression!!

Our first clue should have been the speed at which these monumental assaults have occurred, burying all hope of gleaning any truth or facts under the rubble-of-rhetoric, in their scramble to hit us broadside with total economic failure.

Ben Stein got it right...
part 2
A compliant congress - and chainsaw-in-chief - have hardly needed their brown-shirt-ACORN or their SS.moveon.org - ever on standby after being so astute at herding up those liberal cattle for election duties.

The crown jewel, of course, is their kept-media that denies a clear majority of pro-America citizens ANY capacity to organize or communicate our similar values, let alone unite to stop this administration's slaughter of capitalism.

FoxNews is perhaps all that stands between us and simple takeover. But even they cling to some imaginary, middle-of-the-road "balance" [?] [between truth and fiction?], that just adds to the utter confusion rampant among the (age) 50 and under crowd - first to be schooled in that liberal, anti-American rhetoric.

To them, conservatives sound shrill and hysterical, (another media success) and for lack of logic on either side, they gravitate left toward security. Research certainly holds no allure - for many of us.

Yup, Ben Stein got it right.

arrogance
That those stupid congress people have.They let their lackeys write legislation that can ruin this country.If both Waxhead and malarkey had a brain,they would have it out and be playing with it.Follow the MONEY.Watch to see who gets the richest from this.They may tell you it is a tax on business,but it isn't.they will pass it on to the consumer.

Cap & Tax
I realy have to laugh at this, ANOTHER bill that is being voted on with hardly anyone being able to read it...
Am I the only person that see's this as an act of treason???? let alone stupid..
Has my fellow countrymen been renderd that brain dead??
IF the polotics in Washington was to realy want to reduce harmful gases then the first thing they could do is keep their pie holes shut for a month, they could actuly lead by exsample and use mass transit, fly commercil { pelosi }, buy & use hybred auto,s walk to work, cut down on their vacations & { info junkets }

Cap & Trade: The New Fiasco
Cap & Trade Legislative Disaster: Throw the Bums Out…on their flaccid behinds: Not only does this legislation contain a sea of pork, there is rampant conflict of interest by many legislators and their cronies who have already personally invested in certain green technologies that will benefit directly or indirectly from their legislation. Besides being unethical to the bone, this can have major negative impacts and have unintended consequences in ensuring the best solutions are created in the most cost effective manner but also it affects job creation (or destruction if jobs go overseas) which in any case will cause turmoil in everyone's lives. ENOUGH is ENOUGH with these political, over-paid, coddled crooks, incompetents, and do-nothing right politicos who know only one thing besides lining their own pockets: Spend OUR money recklessly with B.O. as the mouthpiece to spoon feed voters their crap and call it honey. This is REVOLTING!

What can we do???
There is only one thing that will put a stop this madness. It is to stop giving them your money. Congress has no money of it’s own, they must take it from the working public. If you think any amount of whining on July 4th will have any effect on those in Congress, you are sadly mistaken. The founders knew that this was going to happen, and warned about it. They also made sure that we had the means to stop it. It’s know as the 2nd amendment. But that being the last resort, just stop sending your hard earned money to Congress. Without your dollars coming in, they wont even be able to pay themselves, let alone all the other deadbeats that they fund. Who do you think will get cut of first? I’d bet it wont be Congress. This is the only leverage that the taxpayer has. Talking will not do a single thing to Representatives that live in areas that will send them back to Washington, to steal you money, year after year. They have reduced the taxpayers to around 50% of public. Those that aren’t paying could care less about your taxes

vote them out
2010 is an election year. It is time for the people to vote out those who did not listen to the people. They chose to ignore the people who voted for them. Next election the people can vote them out. Wonder what Gore and Pelosi, et.al wiil say about that.
Interesting NJ has four rinos.
Hopefully with new house members they can cancel this nightmare.

re: The Ruse!!!!
After and interview I witnessed on Fox news today that had one of the elitist idiots from NJ that voted for this abortion of the Const. I came away with this in mind, what ever your party you should see these people who think that you are an blithering babling fool who can't seem to function, they need to go!!! For this clown to actually think that this abortion of legislation will create jobs is totally abserd!!! The only thing this will do is take the jobs and move them out of the US!!! And for these idiots who voted for this I say, " You people are nothing more than elitist clowns who think that you know more than the people who put you in office and you have forgotten that the people are your bosses!!" You need to go and find something else to do, if you can!! You are out of control and totally out of touch with this country's needs!!! LEAVE, YOU ARE A TERRORIST IN YOUR OWN RIGHT, BECAUSE BY YOUR ACTIONS YOU ARE RUNNING THIS COUNTRY INTO THE DIRT, LEAVE AND DON'T COME BACK!!!!

Can't wait
It will be interesting to see in 2010 if people are paying attention. If any of these fools stay in office it's a sure bet we are screwed.

No Transparency from EPA or Obama
What about the 700+ scientists that took out full page ads in the NYT questioning the validity of the "global warming" oops I guess it's now "climate change" as the earth is apparently cooling now?

An EPA report was prevented from being released recent. "the report was kept under wraps and itss authors silenced because of pressure to support the administration's agenda of regulating carbon dioxide."

So much for Obama the Serial Liar stating the acience would no longer be put on the back shelf. Unless of course it interfers with his economy destroying agenda, then it is OK to hide the facts.

So much for the 01-23-2009 memo to EPA employees by Lisa Jackson that states "Science must be the backbone for EPA programs. ....When scientific judgements are supressed, misrepresented or distorted by political agendas, Americans can lose faith in their government to provide strong public health and enviornmental protection." She also stated "EPA's actions must be transparent." Yeah, that didn't happen here. For the entire memo, go to: http://www.epa.gov.administrator/memeotoemployees.html

For more information on this whole withheld report, got to http://www.ibdeditorials.com and hit the link for "Carbongate." It is an eye opener.




n2win, that bad CO2!
Photosynthesis is the new taxable darling, apparently. Seems to me that plants are way more useful than Congress.

LC in Md
I have already e-mailed EVERY one of the REPUGNANT-8. I told them EXACTLY how I felt about them becoming TRAITORS to the American people. I still have not been able to get thru to them via phone so that I could TELL how the F*** I felt. I await the black SUV's and the IRS audit.

I agree with
Janelle. With that being said I see our country going the way of a movie called "Idiocracy". The parallels are striking. Forgive me for showing my ignorance on this next point but I was ejumacated in a publick skool in lower redneck Alabalama where in we wuz taut that CO2 was good fer plants and the plants would give back oxegin. Ifin CO2 is such a horrible gass then how come we's xhails it? How come plants needs and injoys it? I could see some point to all this climate change hysteria if we exhailed potassium cyanide but then if we did it would be for a reason and something else would need it to exist. That's the way GOD intended it.

Government funded scientists
is like government funded forensic scientists. When the state prosecutes a person using data gathered and evaluated by their own people, what chance does the defendant have? The same is true of these grant-dependent scientists. If they don't come up with the "correct" data, their funds will disappear. And our lives depend on the unabashed garbage the spew. I don't understand how a bill of such importance can be determined by such a razor-thin margin. I would think that it should be a majority decision. But, that's not how the game is played so we're left with the cards we're dealt.

If I'm sitting at a card table and I suspect I'm being dealt from the bottom of the deck, I leave and find a better game. We should do the same. Time to quit playing their crooked game and just leave the table. And if I'm still being bamboozled, I leave the crooked house. I don't know about the process of seccession, or even if we have to go to that extreme, but we are being dealt a load of manure. It's time to teach these crooks a lesson. I'm sure there is a legal recourse (besides the now defunct election process) available if we could find the right people to initiate it. Constitutional law is not yet dead, or is it?

term limits for Congress, anyone?
Congress won't adopt limits, but we can, district by district, state by state. That is Cap and Trade I can believe in.

Cap and Trade
The so-called cap and trade bill, formally called the "Waxman-Markey Bill" should have been more appropriately called the

CON-MAN--MALARKEY BILL

It's the biggest "CON" in the history of the country; and it's certainly filled with "MALARKEY".

A wish granted
Reagan once described Democrat economic policy as:"If it moves tax it. If it keeps on moving regulate it. If it ever stops moving subsidize it."

Sooner or later Liberals will run out of everyone else's money. America will be seen to the rest of the world as a shining example of a failed liberal idealogy. The country that chooses to adopt free markets, liberty, capitalism, property rights and the ideals that are in our original documents of the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution and Bill of Rights will be the country that will flourish.

There will be a new "America" that will emerge on other soil. We will evolve into what will be euphemistically referred to as "The People's Democratic-Socialist Republic of the United States of America". We will do as well as the Europeans have done over these past decades. Many will be happy with their lot because someone else will be footing the tab. Foreign investment will go to that new "America" not to the old America because that is where the spirit of the entrepeneur will resurface.

Sounds kinda gloomy. Don't worry, most of us will still do fairly well. It is the poor who will really bear the brunt. They always have. They always will. The only way to help the poor, other than to get them a job, is to ensure that businesses can remain profitable so that you can tax them. Liberals are going to see to it that that does not happen.

Be careful what you wish for America. You voted for Liberals and they will deliver.

Tibby

HERE ARE THE IDIOTS!
Here are the 8 REPUBLICANS who are ABETTING CapN'Trade. In a vote of 219 AYE and 212 NO, they voted AYE! These 8 REPUBLICAN'S are Nancy Pelosi's heroes. She could not have done it without them.

1. Mary Bono Mack (R. CA.)
2. Mike Castle (R. DEL.)
3. Mark Stevens Kirk (R. IL.)
4. Dave Reichert (R. WASH.ST.).
5. John McHugh (R. N.Y.)
6. Leonard Lance (R. N.J.)
7. Frank LoBiondo (R. N.J.)
8. Chris Smith (R. N.J.)

Call them on MONDAY! The Capitol Switchboard number is (202)224-3121. You'll be connected to anyone you ask for! Please remember that EVERY negative call is like a rock, (or as St. Denis prefers)a shoe, aimed DIRECTLY at their thick skulls!

On Friday the switchboard was so overwhelmed with calls it shut down. Please let's do it again on Monday,Tuesday,Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday! Attend a TEA PARTY near you on the FOURTH(Saturday)!

You may be tired of calling but we need to continue to let them know that we are watching, we are listening!

Fred
Good move to put "governed" in quotes. We are no longer governed, we are "ruled".

Cap-and-trade: unread, undead
You said in the column: "I have not read the bill, so I should not comment on it at length. But then, neither has any congressman read the now 1000-pages-and-plus wonder. So they should not have passed it."

So if the bill passes would it be legal? If the people voting on it have not read or understand it, why can't a suit be brought to claim it is unconstitutional and stop it from becoming law? Creative things must be done if we are going to rebuild a semblance to reality in the way we are "governed".

A Progressive's Wet Dream......
to have power over power. That is what is about to happen when Obummer gets the Waxman-Markey bill passed. I can't bear to think about it. We are doomed.

Thank you, Mr Jacob. You brighten my
... every day and are truly into what my Grand-Pah -- and likely his, too, called 'feet-on-the-floor, Good Common Sense.'

And thank you, too, 'Pat."

About this topic, what you say about says all else there is a need to say.

Brian Richard Allen
Los Angeles Califobambicated 90028
And the Far Abroad

co 2
Very little to do with co 2,all about control.Another libidiot idea that has already shown not to work in Spain 18% unemployment losing two jobs for ever one made.Only in America is life so good that we suffer so many fools and libidiots.

Transparency???

So what ever happened to Obama's campaign Pledge that all legislation would be posted for 5 days before being voted on??

Bob Etheridge=Pelosi lap dog
Once again Congressman Etheridge D-NC proves he is a devoted Pelosi lap dog.
The two other dim-o-crats that have carved up Cumberland County into a gerrymandered mess had the sense of the populace to vote no on this horrible bill.

Sorry for the double post

My computer is a democrat I think.

Lies, Baloney and Theives

They all know this is lies. They all have their hands in the well.

GE, Pickens, Pelosi, Gore (he will be one of the richest men in the country), and many many more congressmen -

We can't get an investigation, nor a law forbidding this.
But we do have organizations like the Heritage Foundation who can find out who is in on this. We should jail them.

I am ready for all the conservative states to cecede until congress is reformed. And Obama is jailed for a traitor.

I am sick and tired of them passing things the people do not want. They don't listen to us at all. So, State's rights - secede until they do listen.

Baloney, Lies and cow gas

They all know this is lies. They all have their hands in the well.

GE, Pickens, Pelosi, Gore (he will be one of the richest men in the country), and many many more congressmen -

We can't get an investigation, nor a law forbidding this.
But we do have organizations like the Heritage Foundation who can find out who is in on this. We should jail them.

I am ready for all the conservative states to cecede until congress is reformed. And Obama is jailed for a traitor.

I am sick and tired of them passing things the people do not want. They don't listen to us at all. So, State's rights - secede until they do listen.

Cap and Tax
This issue like so many others of this latest anti-Christ and his minions scares me to no end. All I read and hear is that it's just another foolish regulation that will do way more harm than good. The idiot in chief aka "The One" fueled by the idiot from my home state, Al Gore, who invented the internet, so firmly believes that by radically changing energy policies with such draconian measures will actually save our country and the world and provide instantaineous jobs that will save the world.
All I see is higher taxes and loss of jobs as industries move overseas and further loss of our industrial base and the destruction of our country and the lifestyle that we have enjoyed because of our hard work and industrious beliefs. This country can't be supported by hamburger flippers and beggars who become such all become some tree-hugger and misguided fool believes that a big windmill or solar cells and other such foolishness will solve all the energy problems of the world and rid us of the energy that we need to power our country and its industries.
If this stupid bill passes and becomes law we'll soon see many more industries move out of the country and we'll become a nation of pizza delivery drivers and hamburger flippers. I wonder how we'll be able to deliver a pizza from here to China?
We're aleady losing much of our industrial base to other countries because of unreasonable union demands and other foolish regulations. How many more will move because of this Statist piece of excrement and his socilist agenda?
The left-wingers from Kalifornia and the east coast need to get a real dose of economic reality or we'll all have the same problems the the left coast now has and it will be much worse.

Scientits, cont.
Just to further clarify, given what I've seen in my experience with Scientists, I'm absolutely amazed that any of them are opposing the climate change nonsense.

I really wish Milton Friedman would have discussed whether or not he was in favor of government funded scientific research. I'm thinking the answer is H*LL no, seeing as it is far to easy for politicians to buy the souls of scientists. I think Murray Rothbard also discussed how every state needs intellectuals to help keep the common man in line, which I suppose is why universities and their professors are so elitist, and always seem to take up any cause that increases the power of government at the expense of the common man.

We REALLY need to decentralize education....

Scientists
I worked in a lab with a scientist that bought into this horsesh*t. Her justification was for health reasons though - since a lot of money is spent by the EPA to prove that hydrocarbon byproudcts are carcinogenic. Of course the evidence is still scant, but that doesn't stop them from throwing money at it for political reasons.

But it was clear as day to me, though not to her - that her support was not based on the science, which is, as I said, scant at best. Instead, she was interested in inflating her own ego by claiming some degree of importance. You all must understand the mindset of scientists - it is a highly competitive business - most fail. So they must convince people they are doing something productive, or they will die. No grant money = death in the scientific community.

I also went out with the daughter of the head of the department of Biology @ WFU, he always told me the secret to getting grant money is to tie it into C02 emissions and it's effect on global warming. And the guy was a member of Greenpeace... what a moron.

Fortunately, I'm now pursuing a career in medicine, where a healthy set of ethics is a bonus, not a disadvantage.

Don't Underestimate the Silent Majority!
Remember July 4th is coming up and at last count there are over 1837 Tea Parties planned Nationwide. Look to see quite a crowd as the people of America are angry and they want their voices to be heard.

And unfortunately, for members of Congress, next is an election year. :-)

Clean Environment but at what cost
Currently in Germany and most of Europe gas costs over $7.00 a gallon (US) compared to over $2.00 a gallon here. The biggest difference in cost is taxes.

Source:

http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/international/gas1.html

How much higher will fuel costs be in the US if this monstrosity passes the Senate? How will this effect everyday life? In a few hours I am going fishing, a pasttime many of us enjoy from our boats. Well good by that hobby or at least way cut back on trips (boat has 160 gal tank you want to fill it at $7 a gal?)

How many, charter CPTs, bait store owners, marine dealerships, boat manufacturers, marina operators, boat supply stores etc will close up because of this bill? How many jobs lost in just one industry?

I like clean air and water, In fact I volunteer monthly with a group that goes to the barrier islands here and cleans the beaches. But the only way we get there is by boat and I volunteer my boat and gas money to support the all volunteer group. Not sure If I would do that at $7 a gal. (last month I used about 10 Gallons)

I can't help but think our little volunteer group does more to clean the environment then the whole cap and trade bill will.

This bill that litterally no one has read in its entirety has the capacity to change every facet of life in America.

Tinsldr2
"politicians should wear uniforms like NASCAR drivers so we can see who their corporate sponsors are"
http://www.cleancoast.org/


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