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Sunday, April 20, 2008
Paul Jacob :: Townhall.com Columnist
The little party that could
by Paul Jacob
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I like alluding to the classics. When I’m not referencing the great poets and novelists, I try to sneak in books I’m certain actually to have read. Like “The Little Engine That Could.”

Great story. Inspiring. A lesson for all time. Can a day go by when one does not think of that engine chugging “I think I can I think I can I think I can”?

I especially think of that story when the subject of the Libertarian Party comes up.

No political organization in America persists against all odds and all principalities and powers to . . . survive.

The party never quite gets up that hill, chugging as it does (note: allude to Sisyphus’s rock), but it never gives up.

You might think that a political party is there to elect people to office. And the Libertarian Party has elected a few people here and there. But, well, though in general LPers are not exactly the most “spiritual” of folk — they are not as apt as an incense salesman is to spout homilies like “it’s the journey that counts” — they do keep running candidates that, for the most part, get no more than 3 percent, 5 percent, or (occasionally) 10 percent of the vote.

The Democrats and Republicans, on the other hand, elect candidates every election day. Since the LP was formed in 1972, Republicans re-elected their glorious contender (Nixon) and elected three more: Reagan, Bush the Elder, and Bush the Younger. After LP candidate Prof. John Hospers (heavy-duty philosopher) and Mrs. Tonie Nathan (professional media person) received one renegade Electoral College vote for their first-time-out effort, the Democrats have elected two presidents: Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton. The Libertarians, however, have never even garnered a million votes for one of their candidates.

I mention all this merely to say that I prefer to think of the persistence of the Libertarian Party as charming, not pathetic. Everything is stacked against them. The two parties in charge have made sure that it is very hard for “minor parties” to challenge them. Just getting on the ballot is no picnic. The Libertarians have spent millions and millions of dollars and massive quantities of man-hours maintaining ballot status in the forty-odd states they have maintained it, over the years.

And now that persistence has paid off. In a way. The party has become a magnet — a magnet for disgruntled major-party players.

Former Alaska Senator Mike Gravel, who ran for the presidency on the Democratic ticket, now offers himself for the Libertarian nomination. Former Republican Representative Bob Barr, for the last few years a regional representative for the Libertarian Party National Committee, is now also considering the nomination. “Seriously,” he says.

As different as the two candidates may be, in both cases they are extremely concerned with the erosion of civil liberties under the Clinton and Bush administrations.

Barr has joined the ACLU, and works for them; he has also set up an organization called “American Freedom Agenda,” to work to "restore checks and balances and civil liberties protections under assault by the executive branch."

Gravel adds a concern for restoring political power to voters, against the major political establishment. He favors nationwide (indeed, national) initiative and referendum rights, and has about as much confidence in current election laws as a fat man has in an antique wicker chair.

Both Barr and Gravel have served at high levels in American government, as major-party players. Both have joined the Libertarian Party. Both want to . . . make a statement.

I’ll let them make their own statements. I won’t interpret them for you at length. I will say that I know them both — Gravel fairly well — and like them. Barr seems to be a serious man; Gravel is seriously amusing.

By that latter crack I only mean that his peculiar presidential video stunt (not an ad really — but it garnered more attention that most other candidates’ ads) of staring at the camera for an extended — almost excruciating — period of time, and then throwing a big rock in a lake, struck me, last year, as the most “out there” artistic statement in American politics in years. And I’m so “out there” I think I got the point, though I’ll spare you the explanation. Just stay glued to YouTube for further instructions.

Gravel’s recent rendition of “Helter Skelter,” widely seen on YouTube, shows a man who’s long abandoned trying to “look presidential” in order to spark interest. He picked a great song.

Well, Gravel made a splash with his rock-in-the-lake act. And he was an unscripted breath of fresh air in the early debates. What he’ll do among Libertarian Party members — people who are, after all, just as interested in radically reducing (say: abolishing) business regulations and taxes and privatizing Social Security etc. — I have no idea. For his serious work on initiative rights, I can only express mounds of empathy and enthusiasm. (Mike’s charming wife also has some killer recipes for salmon, my favorite dish — but that shouldn’t count for him politically.)

Barr, on the other hand, is a lot closer to the usual LP candidate. He has Republican roots. (So does the party, which grew out of the Goldwater movement and dissatisfaction over Nixon’s betrayal of the free market.) And, not insignificantly, he has been a member of the party longer than a few weeks.

Of course, to actual Republicans, Barr looks like a traitor. Sean Hannity asked him if he really wanted to elect Hillary Clinton.

But such questions miss the point about the Libertarian Party. It does not exist to help the likes of John McCain get elected, even if Hillary or Barack is the real-world alternative. The Libertarians are stuck on this notion that principle should matter even when electing presidents. Damn the consequences . . . or, at least, damn the short-term consequences. (Libertarians tend to reason like this: If you are always willing to compromise to get a little liberty, a little liberty is all you will ever get. If that.)

Indeed, that is how Barr answered Hannity: "Sooner or later, we have to put principle ahead of expediency." Barr also said he was getting tired of “whining” from Republicans.

The point seems to be: Until American libertarians can get Americans in general to support real individual liberty, what’s the use of worrying about half-measures?

If you find this sort of thinking appalling, then you won’t be voting for Gravel or Barr — or Steve Kubby, the medical marijuana activist and LP insider out front in the race — when you go to the polls this November.

But it is worth realizing that the Libertarian Party is poised to continue. Never in American history has a minor party persisted so long after it had failed to “catch on” to become a major one, and persisted even to affect the outcomes of races. The Liberty Party morphed into the Free Soil Party which morphed into the Republican Party. But the Bull Moose died, as have the many celebrity vehicles; the Prohibition Party lingered for ages, but after alcohol Prohibition ended the party failed to maintain the kind of broad, nationwide support the Libertarians have managed to muster.

If the LP takes enough votes away from McCain to ensure a Democratic success this time round, the Republican Party will have to start taking the libertarian wing of its supporters a tad more seriously.

Wouldn’t that be a good thing? I, for one, would weep no tears for a McCain loss, even if that meant losing his fairly consistent support of free trade (an issue that both Hillary and Barack are abominable on). He’s just done too much against freedom otherwise to make me trust him an inch.

So, you can see: the LP is seriously out for my vote.

If party members select Gravel instead of Barr or Kubby (an unlikely possibility), could they grab enough Democrats away to help McCain?

Perhaps.

Americans’ support of the current two-party hegemony is at an all-time low. The Libertarians, having chugged along (they think they can they think they can they think they can) to reach the top of the Third Party heap, have placed themselves in the odd position of (gasp) actually making a difference.

Maybe.

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About The Author
Paul Jacob is President of Citizens in Charge. His daily Common Sense commentary appears on the Web, via e-mail, and on radio stations across America.
 
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Dr. Ron Paul is the man, the only man...
I'm still hoping Dr. Ron Paul will by some miracle become the Republican presidential candidaate. Unlikely as that seems now, it could, nevertheless, happen. Otherwise, I intend to "waste" my vote by writing in Ron Paul on a paper ballot as a matter of conscience. I will never get another chance to vote for a true patriot, true constitutional conservative and truly great man. It's between me and God, folks, that's all.

Sam,I think ...
...you missed the whole point of the article.In our system,the third partys' exist not to win elections,but to have an influence on one of the two major partys.The Majors will look at the third party to see how many votes or support they are getting,and adopt just enough ideas to attract some votes from the little guys.But the "little guys" will always be the "little guys".It's not a bad system,and it has worked for us for many years.The Libertarians or the Socialists will spend their lives out of office,but hopeful that a couple of their ideas will get adopted.

Ron Paul is a perfect example.Some of his ideas are out there,but some will be adopted to bring the Pubs back from their drift to the left.It is only the purest who will think or want to actually win primaries or general elections.They are condemned to always be disappointed.

But the system has worked pretty well for us.

Eminent Domain Abuse will cost McCain
I am a conservative Republican who is torn between voting for the Libertarian candidate and Barrack Obama. Republican Senators Specter and Frist killed two bills that would have ended eminent domain abuse (HR 4128 and & S 3873),and President Bush owes his fortune to eminent domain abuse, taking 200 acres in TX when only 17 was needed for his ballpark because the extra 183 acres was worth much more once the ballpark was built. Every so often politicians of both parties introduce good legislation (that would end eminent domain abuse)that they do not advance because all they want is the good press from introducing such legislation, Republican John Cornyn and Democrat Maxine Waters come to mind. Which leads me to why I may vote for Obama. Maxine Waters calls eminent domain "Negro Removal", hopefully Obama feels the same way and may do something about eminent domain abuse. I know it is a long shot but the Republicans don't even give me that. John Seravalli

The LP's greatest problem...
...is that it's been taken over by its fringiest elements.

I am a former state and county LP chairman, a former elector for Ron Paul, and former publisher of two libertarian newsletters. What drove me out of the party was its excessive tolerance for persons whose greatest need was, quite demonstrably, for the attention of others. That is, if we don't count their need for extensive therapy to bust them out of their perpetual adolescent narcissism.

Obviously -- http://www.eternityroad.info/index.php/weblog/single/the_c onservative_libertarian_schism/ -- I have few problems with libertarian thought on political issues. A few, but not enough that I'd refrain from calling myself a small-L libertarian. But I do have problems, big ones, with an organization that considers its own principles so unserious that it can allow its ranks, its leadership positions, and the overwhelming preponderance of its conventions and salons to be dominated by unserious persons with serious emotional defects. I've chased a few such out of my living room. Until the LP mends its ways, and starts chasing its fringe loonies out of its own "living room," Americans in general will grant it no respect. That will translate, inevitably, into disrespect for the principles libertarians claim to cherish.

In other words, IMAGE MATTERS. When the LP acts upon that lesson, it will become relevant. Not before.

Hannity taking on Barr
Hannity asked Barr if he was trying to get Hillary elected, and I would like to ask Hannity the same question. For months he has been attacking Obama who is, for the time being, our heaven-sent ally in the attempt to stop the Clintons.

Don't slight Mary Ruwart
--
There's also a long-serving (and eminently qualified large-"L" libertarian) seeking the nomination in Denver this year.

Dr. Mary Ruwart (http://www.ruwart.com/Pages/Home/) is neither a recent refugee from the "bipartisan" Boot On Your Neck Party (like Gravel and Barr) nor one of the "unserious persons" who irk Mr. Porretto.




-------
"I have this crazy idea the Constitution actually *means* something."

-- Michael Badnarik, Libertarian Party presidential candidate, 2004




"I would rather have a clean government than one where quote First Amendment rights are being respected, that has become corrupt. If I had my choice, I'd rather have the clean government."

-- John McCain, presumptive Republican Party presidential candidate, 2008

(Defending McCain-Feingold by attacking the Bill of Rights)

3rd parties
Why no mention in this article of the Constitution party? Seems that Alan Keyes will be its candidate.

you missed a party and person
You neglected to include Ross Perot and the Reform
Party, which still exists and made a difference in the 1990s. You need to read: The Perot Legacy: A New Political Path.

At this point, most Americans are disgusted with all political parties. The tendency is to become an independent or unaffiliated voter. Clearly from what is now happening to the Libertarian Party, the candidate matters not the party platform. Barr and Gravel are as far apart on most issues as two people can be.

Vote Libertarian NOW
Candidates and incumbents look at party registrations quarterly, I am told. In many places about a third are D a third are R and a third are I. I don't know what 'independent' means and how would any candidate or incumbent?

If all those who call themselves independent and even those republicans who still have principles would change their party affiliation to Libertarian between elections, do you think it might have an impact?

Even if you socialists who are registered democrats or 'independent' would register as socialists or greens, you would be making such a statement as well.

Stand up. Be counted as often as you can.

Another "Free" Trader
Jacob wrote: " I, for one, would weep no tears for a McCain loss, even if that meant losing his fairly consistent support of free trade.. ." Answer please -- what is 31 consecutive years of trade deficit? Answer = 32.

The New 3rd Parties
Elections have shown us through Ross Perot and Ralph Nader, that they do influence or even change the outcome of elections.

With that said, you can believe it is not too far off that Liberals will form conservative 3rd party clones for no other purpose than to divide the electorate thus ensuring a liberal win.

You can believe conservatives will form liberal 3rd party clones to counter the Democrats.

And the circus continues.....I'm waiting for the NONE OF THE ABOVE PARTY to come out swinging.

Nam65-66:
It seems unlikely that you really believe that the two-party system has worked well for us. Look at where we are! The two-party system is a dismal failure.

Gravel?
Unless Gravel has had some major epiphany that has brought his thinking in line with the U.S. Constitution, there is no chance that he will be the LP nominee. Barr, on the other hand does have a chance.

The Reform party...
...was little other than a cult of personality built around Perot. Reform Party members lack any cohesive philosophical base. That failure guarantees irrelevancy as a political party.

SUCH STUFF AS DREAMS ARE MADE ON

.....Jacobs ...You are an Idealistic Dreamer ...just as your dream of Term Limits for Congress will never happen, neither will a Fringe Party ...Dixiecrats, Green or Libertarian every be more that just a spoiler for the two headed monster that controls our Government ...for the people to regain control, a complete overhaul of the election process would be needed ...


.....Our Country has evolved into a totally different form of Government than the one the Founders left us ...

.....Part of the problem is our election process that gives control of big electoral vote States to the large population centers within the State ...for instance Cook County in Illinois (Chicage) pretty much decides the outcome of the election because of their large popular vote ...as does NYC control NY and LA and Frisco control Calif. ...

.....So large cities in big States have taken control of our Federal Government ...

.....The only way to stop this would be to have an electoral vote by Counties within each state ...in other words Cook County would only get one electoral vote and all the other Counties would also get one vote ...this system would take control of the State out of the hands of the big cities and give a more accurate representation of the entire State ...

.....I know this will never happen, without a Second Revolution, but it is the only way that the "people" could regain control of the Country ...Our Founders were brilliant but they should have carried the electoral system down to the State Level .....COLOSSUS

Another Former LP State Chair for Sanity
As a former LP chair in two states and also a former presidential elector, I must reluctantly but firmly agree with Fran Poretto's sentiment. Deeply unserious people with irrational obsessions have been granted far too much influence in the LP.

While I yield to no one in my respect for Paul Jacob, there are significant state election law deadline problems for presidential candidates who were not seeking the LP's nomination early this year. I doubt that most of the names mentioned here so far have any legal mechanism for appearing on most states' ballots, even if they are nominated in Denver.

CONSTITUTION PARTY
It's the only way to go they are right on all the issues. We want to keep our rights and our country, we don't want to be in the North American Union that all three candidates wants.
We want morals restored and "For the People" not for the elite.

LP gets my vote, thanks to GOP
I voted for Libertarian Party candidates for President several times in the past, but by 2004 I was convinced there was no point voting for a flaky non-entity like Michael Badnarik (the LP candidate that year). I am a small-l libertarian and used to hope that the Libertarian Party could achieve takeoff to become a major player in American politics, but several factors led to me to doubt this. These factors included the stacking of the deck against minor parties by the sacred "two-party system," the LP's domination by extreme libertarian purists, and the unfortunate fact that most voters-- I admit-- aren't as libertarian as even I, a "moderate" libertarian.

However, just when I was ready to give up on the Libertarian Party, the Republican Party has driven me back into the LP's arms. I will in all likelihood vote for Bob Barr, or whoever else the LP nominates (though I might have to think twice about Gravel). I will not be voting for John McCain, the most anti-libertarian candidate in the GOP field (except maybe for the populist and Bible-thumping Mike Huckagee). Nor do I have any reason to vote for Obama or Hillary (even though on the Iraq war and othr foreign policy issues, I now agree with them more than McCain). But I'm not so filled with paralyzing, bedwetting terror of Obama or HIllary that I will vote for McCain only to keep one of them from being elected.


LP gets my vote (continued)
Diehard Republicans insist I am "wasting my vote" if I vote LP, since the LP candidate is unlikely to be elected. I don't entirely agree. If nothing else, a vote for the Libertarian Party sends a message to the Republican Party *why* they are not getting my vote (a message what would not be clearly heard if I voted Democratic or just stayed home) and what the GOP would need to do to win me back (move back in a more small-government, libertarian direction). And consider: what if the Presidential race is very lopsided either way? Despite current polls showing McCain competitive, I think it is very likely that by election day the economy and the Iraq quagmire will put McCain way behind. IF so, then it would *really* be "wasting my vote" to cast it for a loser I don't even like, rather than an LP loser whom I can at least admire and agree with. Likewise, if McCain is way ahead, a vote for him would be wasted since it would neither affect the outcome nor reflect my true feelings and principles.

stakes too high to sacrifice election
I am a committed libertarian (small "l") who desperately wishes the Republican party would return to its Goldwater roots of limited government.

However imperfect McCain may be, the potential damage of a Hillary or Obama presidency with a Democratic House and Senate is absolutely terrifying. The thought of 3 more Ginsbergs on the Court alone should be enough to scare us into voting for McCain while holding our noses. I never thought it possible, but the more I learn about Obama the more he appears far worse than even Hillary...

Please, I understand the importance of the long war of ideas, but this particular battle is too important to sacrifice to principles.

WRH Bill - be afraid, very afraid
"But I'm not so filled with paralyzing, bedwetting terror of Obama or HIllary that I will vote for McCain only to keep one of them from being elected."


You should be. We all should.

Obama/Hillary + Democratic Congress + willing media = national disaster on a scale not seen since Carter - if not worse (think 1929)

Francis W. Porretto's 6:23 AM post ...
... is right about the Libertarian Party (in which I am registered to vote).

There are too many of the fringe element types. This may not be unusual in relatively new parties. I thought that Perot's bunch were somewhat off-balance in that direction. A hope would be that serious candidates can eventually be found for statewide offices - or maybe Ron Paul can still be persuaded to run under the Libertarian banner.

If not, Libertarians need to look at Obama or Clinton seriously to decide how well (compared to McCain) liberty will be served by their presidency.

Republican voters
are like battered wives who keep going back to the dirtbags who beat them up, believing their promises not to do it again. And they do it again, sure as night follows day. Campaigning Republicans promise to reduce government spending; elected Republicans increase government spending. Next election cycle, voters believe them when they promise to reduce government spending. Why?

lesser of two evils
Doug, the problem is that however much Republicans may betray our ideals and increase spending - the Democrats would be even worse. If we had a Republican Congress to keep the President in check like under Clinton maybe - but the potential damage of even 2 years of Obama with a pliant Congress is terrifying.

This country has grown accustomed to big government, short of revolution it appears we are in damage control mode. At least until another Reagan appears...

What about Ron Paul?
How could you imagine to write an honest article about the Libertarian Party and its relationship to the Republican Party without mentioning Dr. Ron Paul?!
He was the most succesful Libertarian Presidential candidate and he is actively working to bring libertarian principles back into the Republican Party.
You can like him or you can hate him, but you can't do a good job writing this article without inclluding him.

Let's Hope So Paul!
The future of individual liberty, the foundational underpinning of our nation depends on it!

Barr working for the ACLU?
Well that fixes it for me. Does any one here on TOWN HALL think that is a good thing. You might as well say that Barr has joined the Comunist party. After all, that is who founded the ACLU. Yes it is, check on it! And their mission has not changed. Look at the causes they champion. No, I'm far from being in love with McCain. Obama is a Racist who fervently hates "White Folks". And why is every one except Ann Colter afraid to say "Read the book he wrote." And Hillary is a liar as is Bill. And neither one of them can help it. That's just the way their minds work. I thought Ron Paul was a fruit cake before things settled out but you know why? Because it was calculated that thats what the "Party " wanted us to think. I have a hard time finding anyone who actually voted for McCain. Now how in the world did he win the Nomination with no enthusiasim from voters?

LP
The reason I abandoned the LP was their open borders policy. Have they changed?

It made no sense to me to strongly support the Constitution (as they claim to) and allow unlimited numbers of people into the country who have not demonstated the same conviction.

Simple for me...no borders, no vote.

Some additional thoughts
First, on the question of "the lesser of two evils," I think we ought to step back and recognize that we're all simply trying to defend ourselves from massive government that stands a terribly good chance to screw up our lives.

I can never condemn someone for voting for the person they think best. Longterm this is awfully important.

Meanwhile, the next president could certainly re-make the Supreme Court, which has gobbled up so much power. I don't have great faith that McCain will pick good justices. But I have ZERO faith (it's actually a negative number) that Hillary or Obama will pick even slightly decent judges. I can't blame someone, who believes as I do, for voting for McCain to protect him or herself from a potentially disasterous new court.

So I won't preach at anyone either way. Follow your conscience. Do what you think is right.

Thanks all for your comments.

Addendum
Where do I go with enthusiasm now? The three main contenders have no respect for borders either.

Only the SCOTUS question forces me to vote for McCain.

My secret hope is that before the convention McCain suffers a Tedy Bruschi type stroke and the stupid party has to nominate a more palatable candidate.

For non-football fans, Patriot linebacker Tedy Bruschi suffered a serious stroke which interfered with his left side mobility. He recovered fully in about six months and returned to the team will all his skills intact.

I can only hope.

more partying
This column was about the Libertarian Party, not Ron Paul, whom I've written about and like very much, both personally and politically. But he is not going to be the GOP nominee, so I didn't address him here.

Nor was the column about the Constitution Party, for which I have a great deal of respect. In '04 I wrote a column praising both the Libertarian and Constitution Party for NOT taking federal matching funds (read: WELFARE for politicians).

The Libertarian Party is regularly on more state ballots than the Constitution Party, though, which makes the LP more attractive to folks looking for a place to hang their presidential shingle.

Nor was this column about Perot, United We Stand and the Reform Party, which together deserve much credit for scaring the day-lights out of both Rs and Ds in the 1990s. They were in many ways responsible for Republicans embracing reforms, which in turn helped them take the Congress. Too bad the congressional Rs so badly lost their way.

Libertarian Party
Why no mention of Ron Paul who is a Republican Representative but ran as the Lbt presidential candidate several years ago. He did try for the Republican nomination last year, but he still has the Lbt philosophy of individual freedom and getting the govt's nose out of our lives, to say nothing of its wasteful, bloated expenditures.

TK_libertarian,
The Republicans did have both houses of Congress AND the White House just a few years ago. They could have eliminated unconstitutional departments and cut spending by half, and the Dems would have whined and pouted, but they could not have done a thing to stop them. What did the Republicans do? Doubled spending, with Republican Ted Stevens' bridges to nowhere being the perfect symbol of their fiscal irresponsibility. As for Reagan, the budget tripled during his administration. He signed nearly every spending increase the Democrat-led Congress sent him; he only vetoed a few. The Republican's practice of campaigning like Libertarians, then governing like Democrats is why I've always voted Libertarian, including Ron Paul in 1988. Had he gotten the Republican nomination this year, it would have been the first time I'd ever pulled the "R" lever. Unfortunately, the party blackballed him. They want no part of anybody who actually favors limited government. Only liars who say they do. Why, oh why do people continue to buy the crap they're selling?

You know
we all talk about getting good judges on the Court. Maybe we should think about getting rid of the rotten ones on SCOTUS and other lower courts. You know the ones that have discovered the Constitution isn't inanimate but animate and
has a life of its own. The key is to elect
members of Congress that will be determined to fulfill their duties regarding judges and impeach the skunks. We act like there is no redress except electing the POTUS that promises to give us judges we want to interpret and not usurp. Why not confront the candidates when they come begging for our votes, demand an answer, to why won't you impeach these rogue judges?

The Constitution Party
The Constitution Party would never, ever get my vote, simply for the fact that they are economically illiterate. Their Platform equates Free Trade and Socialism, two ideas which are complete opposites. Free Trade is the government staying out of our purchasing decisions. Protectionism (high tariffs and quotas; the CP wants to be "economically self-sufficient") is corporate welfare at its best. What better hand out can a corporation get than the government artificially propping up the prices the business's customers have to pay?

As for the Libertarians, while they are good on free enterprise/free trade, their idea that murdering of babies in the womb is a private choice denies the government one of it's primary responsibilities: protection of the innocent. Besides, Libertarians think that wars can be fought by spies and special forces instead of armies. They also are goofy over dope, which calls into question whether they will be able to think straight if they should ever win office. I won't be voting for them, either.

Libertarians
Cavalier973, Take a moment and consider your staements (and those of neocons in general), you want freedom from "the goverment". Well freedom to me means more than economics, it means that the goverment STAYS OUT OF INDIVIDUALS LIVES. So if I decide that I am gay and want to marry my partner what bussiness is of yours OR the goverment, if I want to roll a joint ditto, if I want to carry a firearm ditto, if my wife or daughter decide that an abortion is in their best interest (you guessed it) ditto which brings up the point that if the goverment duty is to protect the inocent why do we have the death penalty (considering the number of death row inmates that have been released based on DNA evidence I would say that our goverment has been sanctioning MURDER)? You can't have it both ways, either we are free or not.

Libertarians
Cavalier973, Take a moment and consider your staements (and those of neocons in general), you want freedom from "the goverment". Well freedom to me means more than economics, it means that the goverment STAYS OUT OF INDIVIDUALS LIVES. So if I decide that I am gay and want to marry my partner what bussiness is of yours OR the goverment, if I want to roll a joint ditto, if I want to carry a firearm ditto, if my wife or daughter decide that an abortion is in their best interest (you guessed it) ditto which brings up the point that if the goverment duty is to protect the inocent why do we have the death penalty (considering the number of death row inmates that have been released based on DNA evidence I would say that our goverment has been sanctioning MURDER)? You can't have it both ways, either we are free or not.

The Little Engine that could
When a third party can appeal to the ever increasing numbers of people who are changing their registration to Independent, you may see some progress. Many are dissaffected by the status quo.

It's 3rd party time again
I'm afraid I can't buy the notion McCain is actually preferable to Hillary or Obama. He hs attacked freedom of speech & the press. He has attacked this country's soveriegnty and identity. He has signalled his intent to attack our freedom to buy and use energy, on specious grounds. He has blocked judicial appointments for silly reasons, thus I don't understand the theory he'd turn around & appt good ones that must get thru a Demmie Senate. I don't buy his cred on "fighting terrorism" esp. snce he's an open-borders-ist.

Our Republican candidate is on the same resecrvation as the Demmies, drinking their Kool-aid. It is out of the question I would give my mandate to such. My patience with squishy "centrists" who blow off conservatives, but feel they must pander to "moderates," by signing on to radical socialism, has run totally dry.

It is time to break with the Rockefellers & the Karl Rovian cutesy clever strategy wonks. Principles matter, & we'll never get the right ones if we let ourselves be manipulated by scary stories.

It's tragic that at this hour of the day I must send a message instead of supporting someone with the right agenda & the right heart, but someone else eliminated those choices, not me.

Anyway, Mack is so "electable" & has so much support from "moderates," he doesn't need me, one of those he chose deliberately to alienate.

In any event, Congress doesn't work the same as the Presidency. What if Rockie Republicans found themselves having to form coalitions with Libertarians and Constitutionalists, instead of flaming socialist Democrats?

I had long had a lot of sympathy for the LP & occasionally voted that way in my younger days.

Constituktion Party on Tariffs and Trade
To Cavalier 973. I don't know what platform you are reading but I have in my hand the complete platform of the U.S. Constitution party. Would you please re-read the platform under tariffs and trade and point out what you mean by socialism? My understanding of socialism is when the government does everything for you whether you want it or not. Such as Hilliary's national health care. Please refer to Article I section 8 of the Constitution.

Two-partying...
"Americans’ support of the current two-party hegemony is at an all-time low."

Parties have been a heated issue since the birth of the republic. The two-party system, as it has developed in response to our particular constitution, is the best alternative. What the system lacks at present are good players, which seems to be a complaint in most election years. But even fifty parties could not guarantee that honorable men of genius would be catapulted into leadership roles. Since no angels are on the horizon, we have to go with the current crop of players... flawed as they are.
Some comments above make clear what I have long suspected: that third-parties consist chiefly of people too extreme, or downright loopy, to be contained by either of the two major parties. In that sense only, minority parties are useful.
Personally, I'd like to see the Dems just disappear along with all the cultural & societal devolution that they represent. They may oblige soon enough. Then the Reps could split along lines of economic policy differences. At least we'd all be on the same page as to who we are.

How many of you are registered 'I'?
Why?

What do you stand for?

Just because you register a party doesn't mean you must vote that party.

If half of the 'Is' registered 'L' do you think any politician would notice?

"Seriously?"
"If the LP takes enough votes away from McCain to ensure a Democratic success this time round, the Republican Party will have to start taking the libertarian wing of its supporters a tad more seriously."

The GOP establishment (and especially conservatives) took the Ron Paul campaign "seriously" enough to repeatedly smear, libel and attact its libertarian wing. Lucky us.

I Defect.
ColinCody:

I would love to write-in Ron Paul too, but there is a better option. Remember it is the idea he is presenting that matters, not just Paul the person.

You will not waste your vote if you vote for the Libertarian candidate. If you write-in Ron Paul, it will not even be counted. It will be a spoiled ballot that could have been conservative, could have been liberal, whatever.... Trash heap.

But a Libertarian vote WILL be counted.

I attended the Washington Libertarian Convention over the weekend. These people are equally smart, equally principled.

Courage! Let the revolution continue....


Reply to TKlibertarian
TKlibertarian posted, responding to me:
I am a committed libertarian (small "l") who desperately wishes the Republican party would return to its Goldwater roots of limited government.

However imperfect McCain may be, the potential damage of a Hillary or Obama presidency with a Democratic House and Senate is absolutely terrifying. The thought of 3 more Ginsbergs on the Court alone should be enough to scare us into voting for McCain while holding our noses. I never thought it possible, but the more I learn about Obama the more he appears far worse than even Hillary...

Please, I understand the importance of the long war of ideas, but this particular battle is too important to sacrifice to principles.>>

I understand your point of view, but so far, anyway, I'm not convinced to vote for McCain out of fear of Obama or Hillary. For one thing, I fear McCain on foreign and military issues about as much as I fear Obama/Hillsary on domestic issues. I don't believe in hindsight that invading and occupying Iraq was a good idea, I don't believe we should stay in Iraq another 100 years, and I especially don't believe we should be looking for more pre-emptive wars or "democracy-spreading, nation-building" projects. I'm concerned McCain's temper combined with his bellicose tendencies could involve us in another war we don't need and can't afford. Yes, I know this is a left-wing talking point, but that doesn't prove it's not also a legitimate concern. And as far as being scared into voting for McCain by the prospect of Obama Supreme Court picks, am I supposed to believe that the man who thinks obeying the Constitution is less important than "clean government" can be trusted to name Constitutionalist judges?

Gravel? You gotta be kidding me!
He was Senator from Alaska for several years and did NOTHING while in office! Oh, he talks a good talk, but amusing is the best adjective for the man. And, his inclusion in the Libertarian Party just goes to show why the LP has lost serious conservatives over the last few years. My friend RV, who joined the LP when it started, honestly thought it would bring about some conservative values in one or both of the parties and the Republicans did adopt some of their talking points, but when the LP started including candidates who champion "recreational drugs", abortion, same-sex marriage, etc., RV ran the other direction FAST. He's not the only one. The LP ceased to be conservative some time ago and is now merely the last bastion for lunatic fringe ideas that neither main stream party will touch with a 10-foot pole.

NOTE: the Democrats tried to champion "recreational" drug use and free sex and lost the conservative members of their party. What makes you think conservative voters are going to actually vote for a platform they left another party over? Think!

And, anyone voting for Mike Gravel has a serious problem with both sanity and information. He should never be a serious candidate above the local level. He'd make a great figure-head mayor of a small town. Kiss some babies, cut some ribbons, not have any power that he could accidently hurt himself with.

Media and political silliness
Perhaps the Libertarians should think of working within the Pub Party to influence them as Norman Thomas, William Jennings Bryan did with their outside the loop ideology of their Party. But, media writers like Jacobs seem so far out of touch that one wonders what his 'thrills are' ala Chris Matthews 'chill along his leg after hearing Obama was!' Barr is just bitter because he lost his seat and power with in the caucus because of questionable moral considerations. Paul , well , he better do something just to keep his Tx. seat. Gravel, oh pulleeeeze. The guy could not even win an office now back in Alaska. Libertarians are natural Pubs with some great fiscal ideas. Better to help change the Party to a strict economic idea of cutting spending then running a Fairy Tale race which will only allow Obama and his socialist pacifists to win. Then where will the Libertarians be? Nowhere.

Leaning towards Bob Barr in Nov.
I support Ron Paul and will vote for him in my state's primary. In the general (assuming Paul doesn't win the GOP nomination), I'll leaning strongly towards Bob Barr. I imagine a lot of conservatives will find themselves either staying home or voting third-party.

The Party Doesn't WANT Change
from within. They are statists, duh!

I understand how conservatives fear Obama and Hillary. I do too. But I fear McCain equally -- maybe more so because he is not even an intelligent man. His success is due to cunning -- the cunning of the unintelligent.

It would be an impossible task to list the sins of the Republicans and try to weight them against the sins of the Democrats. They are pretty much equally vile -- just differntly vile. If one of them promises to inflict one form of statist government while the other promises another version of statist government, how can you possibly worry about one over the other...? Either way, you descend into statist government.

Some will say that we ought to stay and work within the party to change it -- meaning we should give them our vote no matter what, while they call us "fascists" and do everything to shut us up and nullify our votes within the party.

They don't want us in the party, but they do think they own our vote and that we must absolutely not vote for another party. That would be stealing from them....

So I defect, and I'll be voting Libertarian. Honest Republicans would too, if they ever dared to listen to what impressive people the Libertarian candidates were.

Of course, I'll always vote for Ron Paul Republicans who run for congress, but none others.

Oh BTW person who claimed that Ron Paul can barely hang on to his own seat. He won his primary with 70% of the vote.

KJK: A Better Question
You asked where the Libertarian party will be when the Socialist Democrats win...?

Answer: In the same place they are now, only much stronger.

A better question for you to ask would be, "Where will the Republicans be without the libertarian wing of their party?" Answer: Out of office and much, much weaker.

May I kindly point out the faulty premise from which you see this equation? I believe that you think libertarians view Republicans as better than Democrats. We don't.

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