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Sunday, December 30, 2007
Paul Jacob :: Townhall.com Columnist
Repression, Michigan-style?
by Paul Jacob
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Will Congress pass Obamacare by the end of the year?

Even the world's most repressive regimes often have laws on the books that pretend to grant citizens certain political rights. What matters is the extent to which citizens are actually allowed to use those rights — you know, in real life.

In Michigan, taxpayers are now trying to recall ten state legislators, and in the process testing how "real life" their democratic rights are.

The ten targeted solons come from both parties. Prior to their fateful votes to raise taxes against their constituent wishes, taxpayer groups repeatedly warned them that a recall effort would be launched against them if they voted for the $1.6 billion dollar tax increase. And yet, a few months ago, vote for the tax boost they did. And it passed, adding yet more depressive burden to the state's lingering recession.

Michiganders, and all people for that matter, are free to agree or disagree on taxes, as well as with recall campaigns. But it remains an undisputed fact: the Michigan constitution does provide citizens with a process for recall.

But does the right to recall mean anything to politicians, practically?

State Representative Tim Allen says, "The fight is to keep them off the ballot." Notice: His goal isn't to win an election. It is to prevent the voters from ever getting the opportunity to decide.

State House Democrats plan to use "blockers" against the recall petitioners. One Democrat, unnamed in media reports, says the plan is to "shadow" or "follow" those who circulate the petition and "have a debate with each potential signer in an attempt to convince them not to sign the recalls."

In other words, a campaign of stalking and voter intimidation.

We've seen this before — in Michigan and elsewhere. It is a tactic of increasing popularity on the big-government left. Hire blockers to swarm around petitioners at the mall or grocery store or library, creating angry street theater to scare away normal folks wishing to sign a petition.

"In past petition drives where blockers were employed, these blockers have often screamed at citizens attempting to sign petitions, or argued with petitioners every time a citizen approaches to sign the petition," explains Leon Drolet, head of the Michigan Taxpayers Alliance. "Opponents of the Michigan Civil Rights Initiative petition drive went as far as to approach tables set up by petition gatherers and pour water over the signed petitions."

But this is only the half of it — opponents of the recall aren't putting all their repressive methods in one basket. They have also put into play their bread-and-butter tactic of tying the recalls up in court.

First stop for the recall petitions is at the county elections commissions, which must approve the form of the petition. These commissioners, appointed by politicians, have demonstrated open hostility to the recall effort.

In fact, a Kent County judge recently felt the need to declare his disdain for the citizens' right to recall before approving the petition with the statement: "This language quite honestly is as clear as any that has come before us."

Which is almost funny, since elections commissions in Wayne, Macomb and Muskegon counties have all rejected the exact same wording. Why? It was too "unclear."

Each recall measure states that the legislator in question "voted yes on 2007 House Bill 5194 to increase the income tax to 4.35 percent, and voted yes on 2007 House Bill 5198 to impose new 6 percent taxes on certain services."

But as Drolet reminds us, "The rule of law doesn't matter at these hearings, it's about partisan politics and political party bosses."

Drolet's disdain is straightforward enough. The disdain the governing clique has for the average citizen is more muted.

For instance, Macomb County Clerk Carmella Sabaugh refused to elaborate on her "reasoning" in rejecting the recall petition, offering only that her vote "speaks for itself."

Maybe Sabaugh is wise to clam up. Other elected officials taking up space on these commissions seemed to justify their denial of the petition wording on the inability of average citizens to understand the English language.

Muskegon County Treasurer Tony Moulatsiotis, a Democrat, explained, "My problem is I looked at it from an everyday citizen point of view. If I look at those petitions, they say so and so voted yes on tax increases, but I don't know exactly what that means, there's no explanatory language. It's not fair to citizens if they don't have a clear understanding of what they're signing."

Muskegon County Clerk Karen Buie, a Republican, agreed, saying, "The average citizen would not understand."

Of course, these politicians fear the exact opposite of what they claim. They fear that the average Michigan voter will understand the recall petitions all too well. And vote accordingly.

Citizens in those counties that have scuttled the recall measures have been forced to hire lawyers to appeal the decisions. They'll win, almost certainly (clear is clear, after all). But meanwhile time and money have been expended on what should have been mere formality, but became anti-democratic roadblock.

This is how to repress democracy in a democracy.

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About The Author
Paul Jacob is President of Citizens in Charge. His daily Common Sense commentary appears on the Web, via e-mail, and on radio stations across America.
 
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Our rulers always know best.
Our rulers are correct in their actions to hinder the recall efforts of their constituents. The common citizen is unable to comprehend the policies that are implemented for their own good, and our rulers need to be given an unlimited free hand when deciding what we as the people should do. If we allow citizens to protest anytime our rulers make an unpopular decision, we run the risk of having rulers that makes such decisions based on the whim of the people, instead of making the decisions that are in the interest of the common good. And since our rulers are the wisest, most ethical people in the land, it only makes sense that we not question their activities.

The only responsibility a citizen has is to elect one of the two candidates that the media selects for them, and then to obey without question the edicts that the ruler sets forth.

It is our duty to abide by the wishes of our rulers, not the other way around.

The cradle of liberty
This column is reminicent of the Bay State. There, almost any citizen initiative is found to be defective by the secretay of state or some judge. On the rare occasion that such an initiative passes the scrutiny of the overlords, and is passed by the voters, the great and General court just ignored it anyway.

It is time for the citizenry to "pledge our lives, our fotunes and our sacred honor". (See Ms. Sambaugh e.g.)

What a surprise
Politicians showing their disdain and contempt for the people that put them into office to begin with.
It's like they're saying you hired us now go to hell, you'll never get rid of us.

I really hope
that the politicians in question obstruct the recall, and then vote for more tax increases. As one person said, "what you can tolerate, you cannot change." Let the situation become so intolerable that there's muntiny. Rakes and pitchforks on the capitol steps with their sons and daughters in the Guard having to choose to bludgeon their neighbors... all on FOX. The MSM would never give that a fair shake.

an incomplete article
What Mr. Jacob fails to mention in his column is that the citizens of Michigan pay dearly for this contempt. First, we have a full-time legislature when part-time would be more than enough. Second, they are paid amongst the highest in the nation, in spite of the fact that we are in a single-state depression in most of the state. Third, our governor is also amongst the most highly paid. They get regular raises from a group that is hired by the legislature to review their compensation. State law says that whatever this hand-picked commission recommends automatically becomes law unless the legislature specifically votes to overturn their recommendations and the governor signs it. The list goes an ad infinitum, ad nauseam, ad mortem.

The legislature is then propped up by the state employees' unions who are skilled at their own feather-bedding. Unless the vicious cycle of narrow, symbiotic, self-interest is broken, our state will continue to decline.

In the Third world...
...it's known as "One man,one vote,once".

maybe they're right?
Given the lack of critical thinking skills I have seen in most High School graduates and far too many people who hold advanced degrees, maybe it is impossible for the average citizen to understand what is at stake. After all, anyone stupid enough to ignore their status as Citizen Ruler is too stupid to realize that politicians are like mold; once established it takes herculean effort to clean up the mess.

4 Boxes for American Liberty
1. Soapbox. As the author can attest, that one is disappearing; he's going to jail because he used it.

2. Ballot box. The article shows how that one is being sabotaged.

3. Jury Box. With political judges, that one is gone.

So now it's time to open box #4:

Cartridge box. When government officials act tyrannically, they should be removed "by any means necessary."

Loyal Democrat....
It's always a pleasure to read your satire. At the same time, it is scary, because it so closely mirrors the actual thought patterns of those you mock. Keep up the good work!!

What the bureaucrats and politicians who dis the petitioners fail (refuse?) to understand is that they are hired by and are supposed to serve the people rather than the reverse. They, the bureacrats and their politician cronies, deserve to be thrown out of office never to be in public service (is that an oxymoron in this case?) again.

Foolish Citizens
You have given all the power to the organs. You are really, really stupid if you think they are going to give it back. You chose to make a deal with the devil. His end of the bargain was to take care of you. Well, he is taking care of you.

Reminds me of West Virginia...
where the Democrats have ruled since 1932 and the state is dead last or within one or two positions of dead last in every positive category and usually in the top 3 of every negative category. The Mountain state is a perfect example of what happens in a single party system when politicians don't have to compete. However, their are plenty of buildings, roads, etc. named after Robert C Byrd.

NUTNFINR writes:
"deserve to be thrown out of office never to be in public service (is that an oxymoron in this case?) again."

So how do you propose the citizens accomplish this? It is clearly shown that the courts are compromised, the ballots are rigged and the media will not give the citizenry the voice they deserve.

Based on everything we have been told, the only measure the citizens have left is to assemble a mob, haul the violators to the city squares and promptly hang them without the luxury of a trial.

Betcha that would get aired on the Neo-Con News, I mean...Fox News and CNN (Commie-News-Network).

Constitutional Republic?
mr. Jacob refers to our government as a Democracy, which is where he first goes wrong, though he does so at the end. Our government is a "Constitutional Republic" with "democratically elected" representatives sent to serve our interests within the context of the Constitution. In other words, if the legislation is in any way, shape, or form, against the precepts laid down in the Constitution, they should not vote for it, let alone submit it as a bill.

So, how does this rate with the recall measures submitted? If justice can be denied, if laws can be made averse to the stated purpose of the Constitution, then we no longer have a democratically elected servant, but a system of rulers, of taskmasters who can crack the whip any time they want.

George Washington warned us against party, for party has power, and where a party has power, they will seek to attain absolute power. The two majority parties are now vying for the position of ultimate power broker, with both coming out about even for the time being. What happens when one takes over?

Petition blocking
This article:

http://www.ballotpedia.org/wiki/index.php?title=Petition_bl ocking

about petition blocking shows how this technique has been evolving as a tool of the left over the last several years.

Democrats believe in mob rule
We've seen this time and time again. They will do anything, anything at all, to prevent the will of the people from being expressed in the manner designed. Co-opt the courts. Enflame the press. Gather mobs. Shout speakers down. Throw food.

How long will this go on before we recognize that one party in our nation has abandoned the republic, and is attempting to establish tyranny by way of mob rule?

(Unrelated to this topic, please visit my political blog, "Plumb Bob Blog: Squaring the Culture," at http://www.plumbbobblog.com. Thanks.)

2006
Michigan voters had a "recall" election in 2006, but they decided to live with what they had and re-elected perhaps the most inept governor of all, the same old "tax, tax, tax"/anti-business/anti-jobs legislators that had been around for decades, and a "do-nothing" US Senator with her "do-nothing, but "enrich myself and my family and friends" Congresspeople, some of whom have been in office longer than the majority of Michiganders have been alive!
Well, fellow citizens, you get what you elect, even at the level of county clerk and in some cases judges! Michigan can whine on, but her citizens had the opportunity in 2006 to arrest poor government in the hands of Democrats, just as Ohio to their south did with Republicans; it simply would appear that the Ohioans had more guts, and wisdom, for change than Michiganders.
I don't care if your poor government is Republican needing replacement or Democrat needing replacement, if you, THE CITIZEN VOTER, don't attend to what's needed, suffer in silence, PLEASE; under our Constitution, you will be allowed another chance to improve yourself and your government (write yourself a note and keep it for the next election, or tie a string around your damn finger and wear it for two years, or whatever interim).

Amazing
However, Michigan may just be the tip of a coming iceberg. I recently read that due to the housing bubble collapse, cities across the nation face over $900 billion in lost tax revenues. Since cities are the main source of tax revenues for the state as well, this could be just a sign that states will soon be like Michigan and unable to fund programs they have had for decades. California is facing an over $10 billion shortfall.

Many states invested in bad debt for state pension funds only the debt they investing was rated AAA. They did nothing wrong but still are going to pay for it. Homes setting empty that are vandalized and/or burnt are dumped on the state to care for. Expenses for clean-ups are rising for states as the Banks walk away from them once they have been damaged beyond loan value significantly and would cost more to restore than they can get in a sale.

Impact fees, title fees, 100's of thousands of Real Estate commisions no longer available to be taxed for income. Title companies closing, 250,000 layoffs in financials and their lost income no longer taxable. States are in deep trouble in many places and yet, people are demanding they keep providing services.


No way out
No! Raising taxes is not going to work. Buying power is dropping now, due to inflation and more taxes mean less food on the table. Personal debt is astronomical with over $915 billion in just credit card debt. There is a 16.5% delinquency rate on home equity loans and payday loans charge $45 or so every time the loan is rolled over which for some means 400% in payments by the time they pay the loan off.

Also, there is no longer anyway for Michigan to grow out of this mess. That takes years to get enough business and jobs coming in to stop this trend. Nor, for much of the nation is there an easy solution if debt is ending the consumer binge that kept us going for the last 2 decades. From largest creditor nation to largest debtor nation, we are on the path to disaster.

You can only prepare for very hard times. Whether in a year, 5 years or 10 years, it is coming. Many believe they can delay this disaster one more time for the nation(still $10 trillion in home equity Central Banks hope will be tapped to keep spending). After the 2008 election, they think the Fed will have to start raising rates to control inflation (causing a recession) or they may sacrifice the dollar to try to keep the economy going but that would mean $150-$200 oil, $2,000 gold, 10-20% inflation in other things, etc.

Michigan may be the "canary in the mine."

Michigan has another warning
to illustrate to voters. Their Govenor Jennifer Grandholm is often accused of agreeing to something during the day, returning home to talk to unelected hubby, returning the next day with a different position. Remind you of possibilities in Clinton/Clinton?

Then there is NJ
where a notorious Senator (Torricelli) under ethics indictment was deemed unable to win re-election, so a month after the deadline for filing for candidacy, the Dems. switched the bad guy for Lautenberg (who was many years retired) to step in.

When taken to court, the NJ Sup. Ct. ruled for the Dems., despite the fact most had been appointed by a Rep. gov.

For all the screaming about the US Sup. Ct. electing Bush, the issues actually ruled on were 1) could the FL Sup. Ct. intervene in an election and stop the appointed state election certifior from doing his (in this case, her)duty?
and
2) could FL selectively recount only Dem. counties using Dem. commissioners and supervisors and Dem. party members to arbitrarily assign ballots by the conditions of "chads."

At least the US court said No to both questions on the grounds of equal protection under the law. The FL court could not change national election rules in the middle of the game and Dem. officials could not riot through their own chosen ballots to assign the way people might have voted.

Despite all the angst, at least the latter example worked.

I fell sorry for MI. NJ has NO petition rights and no ballot initiative rights.

Sorry Charlie: BUT you see,
Most of Michigans votes are for nil, what with Detroit, Ann Arbor, Kalamazo, and more of the counties around Detroit. We know who lives in those areas don't we??? Did ANY of the freeloaders get told: GET a JOB??? nadda. Did any of the illegal aliens get told, we are NOT giving you any more legal citizen benefits? nadda!
Actually Paul was RIGHT ON on one point, WE (I am a Michigander, born and raised) they don't Understand the ENGLISH language, WHY? because we have some of our small towns overrun with illegal Mexicans GETTING TAXPAYER FOOD STAMPS, just check out the forms, Michigan gives the field workers when they first come food stamps!!! Problem is, they don't leave, so stay on them. AND the small town of Sturgis, Mi. pop 10,500 is now 3,500 illegal aliens, BUT the mayor of Sturgis says "we have to embrace the diversity", and that the city, county, and state will do NOTHING about it, because it is a Federal problem. Does this mean that they didn't take an oath to SERVE AND PROTECT Michigan LEGAL residents, you know the ones paying the taxes for the welfare and illegal residents????

Mad as Heck
While I don't live in Michigan this sort of article makes me boiling mad. While it is true that most of us citizens don't have Phd's, I get sick and tired of being told by some politician that I am too stupid to understand policy issues and I should just let them do what they want. After all they know what is best for us and we are all just uneducated hayseeds. It's no wonder people are so fed up with government.

Michigan's Govenor:
I really don't know how she got re-elected! Because her first term was atrocious. Don't know if it was the unions or not. BUT we have a serious problem now. We used to give Drivers licenses in EVERY language on planet earth, I say used to, because just this week it seems our AG decided it was illegal to give NON US citizens a drivers license! How profound, especially since one of the 9-11 hijackers had one!!! Maybe the New York Debacle wised the up!! OR maybe it was my repeatedly asking them if they don't speaka da Engleeish, how do they know when the sign "Bridge out ahead" means there is no bridge, do they then just drive off it??? After all NONE of our street signs are in anything other than English! AND because WE gave them DL, we turned around and gave them Voter Regristration cards, so YOU think our elections are legally correct NOW??? BUT they are spread far and wide now, took their legal Michigan DL, and now are in every state in the union, so FAIR elections, OR a lot of illegal voters??? That will be the question.
AND Carl Levin in the Senate since 1979 HAS to go! He is a huge panderer to the illegal situation, which as you can see Michigan REALLY doesn't need, especially since we are the only state to LOSE population. Would be far less if not for our illegal population.

That's not all:
In Cass county Michigan, the Porter Twp.board passed a sewer system that they KNEW the taxpayers didn't want, after everyone went home from the board meeting in the dead of night! Why? Because it benefited some on the board at the time. Oh they were recalled, but they had done just one small amount of the work and the judge let it happen, some paid close to 20,000 if they were in a lake region where they had to have a pumping station. AND this is mainly a rural area, but they wanted the sewer for the lakes, one of which had already installed new systems to make their lake better, BUT they had to hook up also, and lots in the country, and an additional 50.00/month, some just couldn't afford it, so just left! The Twp. board just thumbed their noses, and pitted neighbor against neighbor for their own benefit!
So now we got another nice state income tax increase, but the Illegal aliens still are allowed to take the jobs that legal citizens in our area need! AND still our 2 US Senators Levin and Stab-me-now keep on voting for a pathway to citizenship for law breakers. You know doing the jobs Legal US citizens don't want to do, like construction MY LEGAL Son's job!!!

We reap what we sow
We let 20 percent of our party activists decide who is going to run for office by not getting our lazy butts up to go vote in the primaries. When government tromps on citizens rights and freedoms, we could care less as long as it doesn't effect us.
We max out our credit cards then complain we can't meet the payments. We buy homes on 5 year arms when we know full well we won't be able to meet the payments after the 5 years expire. We buy new cars well before the old ones have lived out their usefulness.
Candidates run on promises of new programs and hand me outs and we buy it, instead of insisting on candidates whose only promises to end wasteful spending.
I would bet these same tax raisers in Michigan ran on promises to increase teachers salaries, increase health care programs, increase cigarette taxes (politically correct) and add more aid to the homeless. We bought into this mess and now it is time to pay the fiddler.
Quit crying about it!

Stupidity
One cannot feel sorry for the people that continually elect and reelect the criminals (they steal taxpayer money with higher taxes)Vote the bastards out.

mich
Michigan is a mess and those who know why are smart to leave. Those who can't or refuse to intellectually figure it out, will just keep standing around looking at each other wondering aloud why their taxes keep going up, businesses keep closing, jobs keep disappearing, education keeps getting costlier, cities keep getting dirtier and more unsafe, people are unhappier and.........liberals are in charge of literally every conceivable institution, governing body, judicial entity, managerial position not controlled by unions and thats another story that needs to be told on another day. me? I'm out of here in 4 months or less.

SDN - - - 8:06am

""4 Boxes for American Liberty""

""1. Soapbox. As the author can attest, that one is disappearing; he's going to jail because he used it.""

Anything you want to publically mention.??.

I presume you mean a short time sentence although anything past 3 days is too long.

Since we're discussing citizen incomprehension here, among other rights, yes non comprehension although not recommended is a right, but your short missive this morning may not have been comprehended by many here.

What say ye, SDN.??.


Michigan, last one out, turn off.......

...The lights.

This phrase became very well known years back when out of work Michiganders were coming to Texas in droves for oil field work, ie., welders and so forth.

Sounds like it's time for the rest of "the good ones" to get to h&ll out. We don't want the ones who stay and stay and allow their state to go to the dogs or worse.

There is an old saying about decisions. Don't be the first to change nor the last to realize the change.


the looming problem
The fiscal problems in Michigan are pretty bad. And we did have an opportunity to fix them by not electing Granholm to a second term. But DeVos could never be elected, if for no other reason than that he is the son of the founder of Amway. Amway is illegal (according to their far less successful competition) and we all know that the only way to get is rich as DeVos has gotten is to literally steal it from the poor. We only have poor in this country because folks like DeVos have taken all their money. At least that is what the unions would have us believe.

Unions are a real problem in Michigan. The grief caused by the UAW in deferred payments (pension and retiree health care) are well documented. The low productivity of union workers is less well documented but no less punitive to the comptetitive ability of the auto companies. Public sector unions; from teachers to snow-plow drivers, from librarians to social workers, from DMV to DNR, are bleeding the state dry with their pensions and lack of productivity. Some have estimated that a third of the total state budget is wrapped up in pensions and health care for state retirees. That amount comes right off the top of the budget. The state government's answer is to pander to the hoard of thieves. Our problems will only get worse - no matter who the elected officals.

Ron on the economy
The MI legislature could solve the problems of the stagnant enonomy and the high taxes by repealing all taxes in the state and replacing them with a single fair tax levied on living persons for each level of government. This would remove all the taxes from the price of everything; and stop government from taxing employers out of business, jobs out of existence, and people out of their homes.
It would also reduce the cost of government by reducing the price of everything government buys.

Doing this would change the people from wanting to recall legislators to wanting to keep them; so, all you legislators, get with the program, the tax-elimination program that is. This will also reduce the cost of everything that your families buy. Getting the feds to do this too would reduce the price of everything by 1/3



Michigan Recalls
They are only delaying the inevitable. I have been through this before in 1983. Those who try to intimidate us can be handled. The police will be called and harassment charges filed. If they touch me or my property they will be pepper sprayed.

The crowds at the language hearing did not intimidate me. I know my rights and they will know them too.

Rose Bogaert, Chair
Wayne County Taxpayers Association,Inc.
http://www.wctaxpayers.org

NO SYMPATHY FOR MICHIGAN

.....The citizens voted straight Democrat for years and the Democrats raised taxes but times were good as long as the auto industry was humming ...and the Democrat Politicians and their symbionic partnership with the UAW made sure that it kept humming with high wages for the auto-workers ...

.....But then the reality of the market place raised its ugly head ...the UAW priced themselves out of business and non-union shops like Toyota began kicking butt ...times began to turn bad and lay-offs put many workers on the streets as Ford and GM fought to stave off bankruptcy ...

.....So what do the political geniuses in Michigan do when tax revenues begin to drop ...bingo! ...you guessed it ...they want to raise taxes ...

.....Wake up Michigan ...vote Republican .....COLOSSUS

GET THE BEST
it is hard to measure and put the amount of arrogance on paper, but a good start could be this:
Minimum IQ for any elected official - 100.
Pelosi, Schumer and Boxer would be the first ones to go? :)


mimimary
you, and the rest of the good people of MI, have less than a year left to get ready for your next election opportunity of "recall"; I suggest you organize and target the worst of your elected officials to have the greater impact. I do feel for you as you obviously not only have an illegal alien (I prefer "home invader") problem, but with your Muslim population so large, most likely run a greater risk than other parts of the nation in the terrorism department!
"union dude", I have one piece of advice for you...work to get new leadership that thinks more about their "rank and file" than their own "fat cat" status with "the powers that be".
...and if all else fails to make "we, the people" the masters and not the servants of government, then it is time to go to the streets, armed, if necessary, and take back our nation, A SOVEREIGN NATION, not a part of a greater globalized confederation.
Defining times are upon us, and we are being offered the same old "establishment" candidates for President; let's reject "the powers that be" and rally to the second tier candidates! ...or force WRITTEN contracts, and not verbal (and empty) campaign promises out of those who desire our votes.

Michigan is an Early Warning System
Want to know what the USA will look like under another clintoon admin? Take a good look at Michigan.

Nearing double digit unemployment, taxes so high we feel we're being raped, govt. agencies going broke due to corruption, and jobs leaving in droves.

We're one of only 6 states that give driver licenses to illegals, who seem to have more rights in this state than legal citizens.
while our "esteemed canadian import" raises taxes to provide more "Services" (Bribes)to her constituency. (Union members and welfare recipients)

Michigan would be a Red state if detroit would just seceed from the state and join canada. Who needs it anyway? the whole city is on a downward spiral toward oblivion. If it weren't for the fact that I love where I live, (and my house is paid for) I'd move tomorrow!

Yes the rest of the country could "enjoy" a government just like michigan, all you have to do is vote hillary!


Socialist logic continues....
...in Michigan.

The UAW organized a strike this year for more of just about everything, and they won. Michigan citizens are very hard pressed to afford cars, if able buy one at all. Car and truck sales are in the tank with no light on the horizon, but, well, so what. Strike!, they demand, Comrade Senator Levin would approve.

The UAW and MEA owns and operates the Democratic reps in Michigan at both the state and federal level. That's the way a majority of Michigan voters want it. The majority completely believes they will be taken care of from cradle to grave by the Dems.

oops!
should read; "...if able to buy one.....

Pardon, please.

Marlin
I agree with you to a point.
Problem is the "Majority" of our population lives in the union controlled areas like detroit.

I know a lot of union workers who live as conservatives, but vote democrat everytime, because their "Union leaders" told them to do so.

You are correct about how the unions have gotten so fat on union dues and political kickbacks that they will never allow their members to vote for anything but democrats. The unions had their place in the 30s, but now they're just like most democrats, all that matters is clinging to power, no matter who it destroys.

There were a lot of folks like myself who worked long and hard to get granholm booted out in 06, but the unions had far too much money to spend to trash DeVos (he never had a union shop so he's evil), and the "gimme gimme's" just wanted more freebies courtesy of the MI taxpayers.

Like I said earlier, if you want to see what the USA wil look like under Hitlery, take a good look at MI.


Michigan is not going to change until...

...it has become unbearable. As stated previously, it is a bell weather, a wind chime, but not of the kind anybody wants near their home.

If you can reason, get the h&ll out and go to somewhere nearby like Wisconsin, er, maybe Minnesota would be better, less lakes but more freedom and good company.

Remember your ancestors didn't even know Michigan existed before they found the place. Now that it is ruined, get the h&ll out.


Onceamarine
My ancestors were here 10,000 years ago.

I was born and raised in MI, and I have no intentions of leaving. if it keeps up, what's going to happen is the northern 1/2 of the state will split off and form our own Red state.

Under "evil Engler" Michigan was a model for the country on how to turn around an economy. 5 years of democrat rule and we're a model for how Not to run a state. Bring back the evil republicans!

Fight for the place....

Yea, if you don't mind using guns and guerrilla tactics. Sounds like a winner.

You're outnumbered and badly. That's why you have the problem.

I know upstate is a different place, a nice place to live, and you would hate yourself if you left it so maybe those around Detroit will leave. Don't hold your breath.

It's a big country and has many beautiful places. Take your pick and leave your neighbors asking themselves why they haven't left.


Jackpine, I totally sympathise.........

..and totally understand. The very prosperity in the south brought new population which can not and will not adjust to reality.

I have repeatedly stated in forums on TH that secession is a legit and proper way to resolve unresolvable differences, a divorce.

Forming a new state is a secession from the old state. It is often discussed but has not happened in these United Sates since...

Good luck and may the spirits of the ancestors be there and lead the way. You and yours are up against great odds. Show the rest of us the WAY. Light the light of freedom and self determination.

I applaud you. Most just give up or get out.


onceamarine
"Yea, if you don't mind using guns and guerrilla tactics. Sounds like a winner."

Trust me, if we have Hillary in the WH in 09, all of the country will be using guns and guerilla tactics to take our country back!

Once that shrew gets her hands on power, she'll never let go.

Michigan has one hope, the unions will eventually drive the auto industry out of the state, and will have no reason to exist anymore, then our state will have a chance to throw off the union yoke and get some Real representation.

Jackpine savage: YOU are so RIGHT ON!
Listen up folks, what he says is the TRUTH.
When those Union folks that keep voting Democrat in the Eastern part of the state (not where I live) and open their eyes, JUST MAYBE they'll do it before the illegals take their UNION JOBS, because OUR US Senators don't give a fat fig. Every time they can vote it is AGAINST LEGAL US CITIZENS.
Sorry OceanMarine, but Wisconsin has just as many liberals as Michigan, AND Minnesota has as many Muslims! So what's a legal Michigander who's family was part of the original families moving there from the east coast (been in this country since the 1630's) and whose home is paid for and children and grandchildren live there supposed to do. The Illegal problem is EVERYWHERE!!!
LISTEN to what Jackpine said, everyone I know voted, the lines were so long, I got tired of waiting, and I'm rural!!! AND we didn't vote for the dunces, nor Granholm, who said last year "just wait for the next 5 years, we'll blow you away"! Don't know if she means with a terrorist bomb or what! BUT CARL LEVIN MUST GO!! in 2008!! 28 years of buffoonery are ENOUGH, and take his Brother Sander Levin with him.

mimimary
Trust me Sen Levin and his counterpart debbie stab-em-now know exactly how I feel about their policies, I let 'em know all the time. :o)

I never get replies from Stabenow, but levin has actually replied a few times trying to defend himself. Our" representatives" in Lansing and washington, make me ashamed to admit I'm from MI.

I can imagine how the NV folks feel about land-deal Reid.

Jackpine Savage, Believe Me, I have let
Levin and Stab-me-now know, those letters you get are from their staff. Ever notice how the illegal immigration letters start with: Our Immigration system is broken. EVERY single one:
AND Levin the half glasses idiot, was in on the one in 1986, remember the ONE time ONLY amnesty.
Of course if you say anything to their similiarly idiotic staff they say it was NOT AN AMNESTY, WELL excuse me, I meant a "pathway to citizenship", same thing, only more drawn out. I'm so against amnesty for the law breaking ones, who's first one was to come here uninvited, not health checked, then the second one to work, only one of 3 ways: Fake documents, under the table, or stolen ID, but hey, "they only want a better life for their families", as if WE LEGAL CITIZENS don't.
I am a member of http://www.numbersusa, sign on, send FREE faxes to all members of congress, President, and others. FREE, FREE, FREE, sign up today! And check the stances of ALL Presidential canidates!
Yep if we didn't have Detroit, Flint, Kalamazoo, and Dearbornistan, we might have a chance of getting GOOD representation in congress!

mimimary
I never actually thought it was levin himself who replied, but at least I got a reply.

I guess Stab-me-now only teplies to voters who agree with her leftist policies. But if you really want to see an embarassment, look only as far as John Conyers. He needs to mve to cuba.

Of course all the above mentioned were handpicked by the unions.

Even liberal democrats i know are finally beginning to ask themselves why they voted for "Holy Moley" as my wife calls her.

Gotta give granholm credit though, she actually kept her campaign promises. During the 06 campaing her motto was "You aint seen nothin' yet" And boy was she right!

Michgian
I was born in the U.P. My 91-year-old aunt and her daughters still live there. My old small town and surrounding areas are home to welfare types who migrated to the area because of the cheap housing (houses that are so cheap that when they deteriorate, they are allowed to fall down). The same lay-abouts made meth labs; so many that it became the meth capitol of Michigan for awhile!

The whole country needs to get rid of welfare and boot out the illegals, make the welfare deadbeats work or starve. Believe me, they will work if they have to do so, especially if thieving is too dangerous due to homeowners owning guns.

When does ....

A recession become a depression? 5 years of steady losses must mean something besides a mere recession.

Yesterday, I was among 14 in-laws and out-laws for a dinner North of Detroit.

How many would ever vote Republican?

Just me.


carlos
Yeah, it's sad, but especially when it comes to union members, I've seen otherwise reasonable people pull the D lever every time because they were told to by the union.

I have a brother-in-law, who should know better, but every time, he votes however the union tells him he should. He calls it protecting his pension, I call it selling out. We've had to agree not to talk politics anymore because it always turns into a heated debate.

I just can't understand how anyone who lives a conservative lifestyle, vote for socialists and commies, just because your union fat cats want you to.

Of course I tried working in a union shop once, the institutional laziness drove me nuts, I lasted all of one week and found a non-union job.
I tried working as a unin carpenter once too, I lasted 2 days on that job before I found a non union job. I got tired of having some union puke tell me I was working "Too Fast"!!

So I got my builder's license and opened my own co. Non-union of course :P (I wanted people who knew how to work for a living)


Jackpine Savage...

It is amazing isn't it.

I call Democrats "Surface Thinkers". People who take an idea from someone else, and make it their own. They cannot think for themselves.

Republicans are "Cumulative Thinkers". They take information from many sources before making a decision.

Democrats vote for themselves. Republicans vote for their children.

Just like pensions... Democrats want more, even if their own children have to pay for it.

Michigan is sad.


I like the term "Michiganders", but..
Are women from Michigan called "Michigeese"?


Carlos
Well if hillary, or obama win in 08,in the words of our "esteemed canadian import", You ain't seen nothin' yet!

Michigeese? :op
Nope Rick, even women can be Michiganders!

Hey, we're a "Progressive" state remember? :op

I'm a native Michigander
And some of my family that are still there keep asking why I don't move back.
But in the same breath they're telling me all about how things have gone to hell there.

But I have to agree that they're getting what they asked for when they re-elected Granholm and just keep on re-electing Levin, Stab Me Now, Conyers, Dingle, etc etc.
Not one of those worthless bums has ever done a damnned thing for the people of Michigan. Nit even when I was living there, and except for StabMeNow they were ALL in office when I was growing up just outside of Detroit.

Even sadder is that the head of the Michigan Legislature who voted to give all school kids Ipods on the taxpayers dime is from my home town and I think even went to my high school.
If I'm right he was not very popular then so why would he do the right thing now?

Tip of the iceberg (Part 1)
Actually, the correct term is "Michiganian". "Michigander" is more popular, but isn't formally correct. I accept both terms, but since the correct term is "Michiganians" our women cannot be "Michigeese".

I agree with virtually all of the previous Michiganians who have posted here. Jacobs left off the fact that before the 2006 elections, inwhich 4 of 5 Propositions were passed, two Democrats on a State review panel tried to keep one of those propositions off the ballot. Their roadblock had to be overturned by the courts. The arrogance our elected officials have shown for the people they were electd to serve knows no bounds. But there are some facts that need to be clarified.

For 12 years under Republican Governor John Engler Michigan's economy thrived. We also had Republicans in control of both houses of the State Legislature until the start of 2007, when the Democrats won control of one house.

Jacob writes that there are both Republicans and Democrats targeted for recall, but in fact there were only three or four Republicans in the legislature that voted for these taxes. In fact, one Democrat either admitted or bragged, depending how you look at it, that the Democrats brought us these tax increases.

Also, Michigan has no DMV as one poster stated. These functions are handled by the Secretary of State.

That said the general comments made by previous posters are all right on target, and our current Governor is clueless on how to deal with these issues.


Tip of the iceberg (Part 2)
Jennifer Granholm's power is rooted in the old-time Wayne County Democrat Party machine (Detroit and south and west suburbs). Their roots are in the factories that were the job base for Detroit, Downriver, and the western suburbs. One by one those factories have all been shut down and moved. First to the south and then overseas. The unions who choked these employers and chased them away are their own worst enemy in the long run. And they never learn. (They had some help from environmentalists in destroying these jobs and in preventing new ones from replacing them).

Jennifer Granholm is a Neanderthal; a throwback to a by-gone era. She has no clue as to how the government can help the economy (or hurt it). She is typical of the tax-and-spend robots that have controlled the Democrat Party for years and who have no clue how to fix anything. The only thing they know is 'put the government in charge of it'. She is exactly the kind of backroom, deal-making politician liberals claim to despise but who in fact they depend upon for their power and their political goals.

A few years ago I was at funeral for a politically connected friend of our family, attended by the guv. I had once worked for the deceased. I was there with several siblings. And those who were thrilled to see the guv in the flesh were embarassed when I ignored her in the reception line. They didn't get that I greatly resented being pressured to make nice with a politician I despise in order to pay my last respects to a former employer.


Tip of the iceberg (Part 3)
The tax increases that formed the basis for the recall effort are a case study in how dense Democrats are when it come to economics and government's role in them. The tax increases were insisted upon by the Democrats as a way to balance the state's budget after the Republicans finally succeeded in eliminating the single business tax that had been a damper on business growth in the state for decades.

The Democrats argued that all the revenue "lost" from the single business tax had to be replaced. It would never occur to them that (1) the economy exists to benefit the people, not the state, (2) the elimination of the single business tax would spur growth in the state's economy and that revenues would rise because of that, and (3) if you are still in the red you have to cut spending. That's what the people who pay these taxes have to do when they don't have enough money at the end of the month because of all the taxes they've paid.

And Levin and Stabenow are just as clueless as Granholm. All of them still have learned nothing from the Kennedy, Reagan, and Bush tax cuts and they would rather choke to death on their own vomit than reduce the size of their precious welfare state. As a result they will soon have nothing left in this state but welfare.

For CharlieS
John Dingell says the time has come for the people of this county to accept another 50 cent tax on a gallon of gasoline.

Talk about clueless.

The World Headquarters for Ford, as well as Ford's world-famous Rouge Plant, are in his district. So is a great deal of commercial real estate that is owned by Ford. If things get much worse for the domestic auto industry Dingell's entire district may well go into receivership, but what does he care? He's 75+ and has a hefty government pension to retire on.

Clueless? Or senile.

America's North Korea...

Some areas of rural Michigan resemble "The Night of the Living Dead". Creeps roam the backroads, strung out on crystal-meth, looking for cottages to break into.

I guess that happens when the Governors early-release set 17,000 meth-heads loose.

Four Boxes for American Liberty
SDN, I salute you! Keep your arms clean and the powder dry.

Term limits, and no retirement system for elected officials... nah, won't happen until box number 4 has been opened and used.


Wiseone, I'm not the least bit surprised
Dingell is a typical Democrat, their solution for everything is more taxes and more regulation.
The fact that the Big Three are hurting doesn't mean a thing to them as long as they get their blood money from the UAW.

I've heard rumors that Ford is thinking, or is that talking, about shutting down the Rouge plant.
GM has long since shut down the Buick plant in Flint, and the Pontiac plant in Pontiac, and Chrysler had to go to Germany for financial help for a while.
I haven't heard how they're doing since the new ownership took over, but I've always been a Chrysler, Plymouth or Dodge guy, and there hasn't been a Plymouth Division since around the time I moved out of Michigan(1986).

But neither Dingell or any of the other Democrat FOSSILS in either the US Congress or Michigan Legislature, or the UAW for that matter, give a rats rear end about the auto industry, or the millions of Michiganders that will be hurt if the Big Three are forced to close their doors for good. And for the reasons you've mentioned. They all have big pensions waiting for them that they've stolen from the taxpayers for so many years.
Sure they all talk a good game, but that's all it is, TALK.

Jackpine Savage
Speaking of worthless unions and union shops, in my very first job working for Great Scott Supermarkets I was compelled to be a member of the Retail Clerks International(now the United Food and Commercial Workers) Union, and the only thing they did for us was to get us a semi-annual 25 cent an hour pay raise.
But of course right along with that would come a ONE DOLLAR a week increase in union dues. So there went the pay raise right back to the union.

When the company wanted to fire me on some BS charges, all they had to do was take my union rep out to lunch and I was unemployed.

I have NEVER worked in a union shop since, and if a company that I was, or am working for EVER talked about unionizing, if there wasn't an option to stay there without joining the union, I'd be gone in a heartbeat.
Unions SUCK the life and the will to do a good job and get ahead right out of their members.

I'm sorry to hear
the sad commentaries from Michigan folks. I mentioned way above, "you cannot change what you can tolerate." That goes for a belly over the belt and new 40 inch waisted pants to lousy politicians. Unfortunately, with a voting majority content to wear larger pants, the ones who are fed up have hard choices. From the sound of things, it may still be awhile before things become intolerable enough.

You're right Profblog
And that's the biggest problem. The people of Michigan, like the people of the rest of the country, are just getting too fat, lazy and indifferent to the crap the politicians pull, so they continue to get away with it.

One of these days the people will finally get fred up, but by then it may well be far too late.

Why do you keep telling
those who live in Michigan to move to Wisconson etc?

Look at Colorado.

Do you know how that state became a basket case?

Well, people left California in droves, moving to a better place, Colorado.

And then what did they do?

They took up where they left off in California, electing liberals to run the place into the ground so they can run to another state and ruin it too.

just my thoughts.

For CharlieS, an anecdote
Quote from an erstwhile Tamil Nadu Chief Minister (in this case, C.N. Annadurai, term 1967-1969): "union is a lot like onion; when you peel off one layer of skin, you find another beneath; when you finally peel off all the skin, you're left with.....NOTHING!"

Unions are outdated
In the 20s and 30s when there was no "weekend" and the 40-hr. work week was a dream, health insurance an idea, and "pension" a French word for old age, unions had a purpose.

But by the 50s, when union members were near 40%, unions had turned blue collar workers into the middle class, which should be able to function on its own.

Now, under 10% as are unionized and they are basically state and federal workers and educators. Once, those jobs had meagre salaries and union benefits were the draw. In 2007, starting teachers' salaries can be in the $50-60,000 range with guaranteed annual raises, big health coverage, and big promised pensions.

MI will have to convert to conservatism (I suppose fat chance--the Rep. Congress eventually became spend, spend) and rescind the tax laws.

CharlieS
Re: the iPod scam. Actually, it was Mac laptops that were being sought for every sixth(maybe seventh) grade student in public schools in the state. Fortuanately the plan was torpedoed shortly after it was discovered that the two legislators who proposed it had been given trips to Cal paid for by Apple computer corp.

Michiganders stay in Michigan!!!
As someone who has seen the terrible consequences of Yankee flight from disintegrating liberal states to nice non-basket-case states firsthand, let me plead with you Michiganders to please stay in your home state and FIX IT! Don't just bail out and move to some nice, warm Southern state and bring your Yankee libtard politics with you. You just turn our states into the same basket cases that you just abandoned.

So, please try to catch hold of that spark of love and warmth that you feel for your home state and do your best to bring it back to the right path. Don't abandon her to the whims of the socialists! Fight for your liberties!

But if you must move to Florida, at least learn to vote conservative. Libtards are turning that state into Little California.

Bring Your Business To Michigan LOL
When the Nazis have control, bad things happen to the economy. Its no wonder they have to advertise nationally with lies about how great Michigan is.

Michigan residents deserve everything they are getting. Keep electing those tax and spend leftists! Its better to buy foreign products (like cars) than reward these socialists, who vote nationally to do to America, what they have done to Michigan.

Michigan Voters...

8 in 10 cannot name the U.S. Secretary of State or a Michigan Senator.

Most students graduating High School read at a 5th grade level, and cannot find their own state on a map. Less than 10% can define "a share of stock". Best of all, nearly 100% can identify Al Gore and Global Warming.

Michigan = Ignorance and Want


MIchigan Repression
It's tactics like these and allowing Illegals to vote that will cause the downfall of our once great Nation. The democrats tried twice to overturn the peoples decisions in Florida and Ohio in the last two presidential elections and will probably try again everytime they lose a big election in the future. Every time a party cheats to win an election it brings us closer and closer to anarchy. Eventually the people will become tired of being cheated and will either drop out of the process altogether or make an attempt at overthrowing the tyrannical government under which we live. We are currently reaching that point today; all it will take is for the democrats to bring back the chaos of 2000 to get the show started.

Californicating Colorado
IN all fairness to some Californians, many were driven out of the state because of the federal governments unwillingness to enforce our immigration laws, which turned San Diego and other cities into unlivable s**t holes. What the fed's corruption didn't destroy was further damaged by - surprise, surprise - a Democratic state government.

RDR

Californication...
We call it Yankeefication down here in the South. See, anyone who is not from the South is a Yankee and anyone from the North is a D*mn Yankee.

Amounts to the same thing, really. Libtard morons who have ruined their own states by voting democrat move away from the cesspools they've created themselves because the schools are bad, crime is too high, taxes are too high, there are too many undocumented workers, etc. and go to nice, low tax, low crime states like Alabama, Georgia, Virginia, North and South Carolina, and (sigh) Florida and immediately start to elect the same types of libtard jerks who ruined their home states to begin with.

I guess they figure with a change in latitude, the new carpetbagger libtards they elect will be able to create Socialist Utopia South by raising taxes, doing away with the death penalty, releasing "nonviolent" offenders early, imposing gun control laws, providing free condoms in kindergarten, unlimited public funding for abortions, embracing the gay agenda, pushing the global warming agenda, reducing educational standards and pushing "tolerance" and "diversity", and increasing taxes and regulations on the oil and gas industry as well as tobacco, guns, and alcohol.

Of course, all these libtard socialist policies do is turn the formerly nice state into a carbon copy of the cesspool they just left. And then, they stand there with a puzzled look on their face and ask "What happened?".

I'll tell you what happened: You and your stupid libtard ideas. That's what happened.

Yankees stay home in the cesspools you've created! We don't need your "enlightened" liberal ideas down here.

Happy New Year!

Reaping the Whirlwind
As the Great Communicator once said, "A government that has the power to give you everything you want also has the power to take away everything you have." That of course includes the right to have a say so in the selection of your rulers.

It will be interesting to see how well the chains of servitude rest on the shoulders of Michiganers. Note to all Wolverine Staters: that pressure you feel on your back is the feel of a tyrant's jackboot treading on you. Either get used to it or throw it off now, while you have the strength to do so.

Some of you are REALLY honking me off:
First off, please tell me that EVERY FRICKING time YOU personally vote, that it is the same as every other member of YOUR state! Can't do that?? Then please shut the piehole, BECAUSE, most of us in Michigan didn't vote for the arseholes that represent our state. GOT THAT???
OK, then quit saying WE got what WE voted for, because I DIDN'T!! OK?
JUST like all of my fellow Michigan voters said: IT is the LOONY TUNES on the South=east part of the state, YEPPERS those Union members, that must BE FREAKIN CLUELESS!!! ADD in Ann Arbor, Kalamazoo, and THEIR VOICES are the ones being heard! The rest of us can go to he__ just like our state is:
HERES the problem:
Dingell LIBERAL idiot, 52 YEARS IN THE HOUSE, 81 years old:
Conyers: LIBERAL idiot, 42 years in the house, 78 years old:
Sander Levin LIBERAL idiot: 24 years in the house, 76 years old:
Bonior: LIBEAL idiot: 30 years in the house 62 years old
Dale Kildee: Liberal Idiot: 30 years in the house 78 years old:
Carl Levin: LIBERAL idiot: 28 years in the Senate, 74 years old:
So MOSTLY WHAT WE HAVE are a bunch of OLD, OLD, LIBERALS elected by unions, STILL $crewing us:
BUT wait, when they give the illlegals amnesty, THEY WILL BE AFTER those unions jobs, with a vengenance!!!

Hardcase: YOU Sir are an idiot!
YOU mean YOU personally voted in all those nicey nicey conservatives in Florida??? ha, ha, ha,
My Sister has lived in Florida for almost 30 years, and SHE is not a flaming Liberal, just as I'm not, so stuff it sir, like I said before, the largest population in Michigan is in the Detroit area, and THEY are the ones voting in the Liberal IDIOTS!!
DID YOU vote for Corrine Brown???? As far as I'm concerned she is a LIBERAL, who is challenged to spell Jacksonville!

Chill out mimimary...
Perhaps you missed the following:

"Libtard morons who have ruined their own states by voting democrat move away from the cesspools they've created themselves..."

If you aren't a libtard moron, then my statements don't apply to you. I'm talking about the dolts who can't punch a hole in a piece of paper who are mainly infesting the southern parts of Florida. If you are conservative, then come on down! We could use some new folks with brains and you deserve to escape the heckhole that the libtards have made for you. Let them stew in their own cesspool.

By the way, I don't live in Florida, but I'd like to. Problem is, the taxes are so high right now that you can't afford even a house that's not on the beach down there unless you are a retired, rich Yankee liberal.

And I've voted for plenty of conservatives where I live and often, they get elected. Unfortunately, I'm not a democrat, so I could only vote once. :)

I forgive you for misunderstanding what I posted before. I apologize if I was unclear about whom I was writing.

Happy New Year Mimimary!

Happy new year to you also Hardcase.
IF you want to come to a place as warm as Florida, has orange and fruit trees, check out South Texas in the Rio Grande Valley, or course you will have to deal with a lot of illegals, AND the legal Mexicans aren't too happy with them also, but if you live in a park as I do, one that has mobiles, park models, RV's, and brick homes on the golf course it's warm like Florida, but without the rain.
AND Mucho cheaper, with lots of things to do, have to hurry and get your work done, so you can play.
Golf is much cheaper than Florida or Arizona, but it is dustier than crap. BUT from what our friend says, so is Arizona.

Thanks Moonbat Exterminator
Moonbat Exterminator writes: Monday, December, 31, 2007 11:25 AM
CharlieS
Re: the iPod scam.

Thanks for clearing that up. As you see from the paste in below from the Detroit News this is all I've seen of the story but that was bad enough after hearing from family there what lousy shape the Michigan economy is in.
And of course, like typical Democrats, their solution to paying for it, no matter what the final program was to be was raising the taxes of Michiganders. No surprise there at all.
---------------

An iPod for every kid? Are they !#$!ing idiots?

The Detroit News
April 6, 2007
Section: Editorials
Page: 14A

We have come to the conclusion that the crisis Michigan faces is not a shortage of revenue, but an excess of idiocy. Facing a budget deficit that has passed the $1 billion mark, House Democrats Thursday offered a spending plan that would buy a MP3 player or iPod for every school child in Michigan.
--Story truncated---

Mimimary, I thought they booted Bonior
Quite a few years ago. But no doubt if they did they just replaced him with someone equally, if not more liberal, and willing to tax and spend Michigan and the nation into bankruptcy.

Mimimary
I know what you mean. Alaska elected Tony Knowles for two-terms as governor, even though he had run the Municipality of Anchorage's huge budgetary surplus into a deep fiscal hole when he was the mayor. I was involved in try to get someone else elected on his second term, but it was like the voters (particularly in Anchorage) all had their Walkman (pre-MP3) turned up too loud to hear. The facts were easy to find and compelling. When he was our governor, he dropped a court case the state had been shepherding toward the US Supreme Court for 15-years. It has cost Alaska untold amounts of money since then. But, still he won a second term.

The good news is that when he ran against Lisa Murkowski for Senator a couple of years ago, people listened and didn't vote for him. I don't particularly care of Murkowski (I consider her a liberal with a conservative name), but I would rather have her than Tony any day. So, hopefully, MI will get started. One of the most effective tools is Letters to the Editor and blogging. Educate yourself about the candidates and get the word out. And when petition busters start hanging around, form cordon lines to keep them away from the petition table and allow potential signers to approach. If they touch you, it's considered assault!

2004 election
In defense of Mi. Only about 13 of the 80 some counties voted democrat.

In other words about 16-18% of the counties determined the election because of their populations tied to unions.

It is not going to change for a while but, eventually Michigan will hit bottom and things will change even among the die-hard socialist led voters.

THANK you Old Man!
That's what I was TRYING to get across to those that keep saying "Michigan got what IT VOTED FOR"
And I kept saying, I didn't vote the loons in:
Deabornistan and Detroit were the primary areas voting them in, of course there are lots of UNION members there, along with lots of freeloading welfare people!
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