Townhall.com, Where Your Opinion Counts
Talk Radio:   Bill Bennett   Mike Gallagher   Dennis Prager   Michael Medved   Hugh Hewitt   
BREAKING NEWS  LeftArrow - Townhall.com : Conservative, Political, Republican   RightArrow - Townhall.com : Conservative, Political, Republican  
Columns, funnies & more in your inbox!
  • Check the boxes and send us your email address to receveive your free newsletter
  • Your daily must-read of conservative columns, cartoons and news. Coulter, Sowell, Krauthammer and more.
  • Townhall.com’s weekly inside scoop on what’s happening behind the scenes in the world of politics. When news breaks, we report.
  • Signup to receive the latest daily Townhall cartoons
Sunday, October 28, 2007
Paul Jacob :: Townhall.com Columnist
In the toilet
by Paul Jacob
Vote on It:
Average Vote:
[+] Text [-]
 
 
Poll
Was the Copenhagen Global Warming Summit Walk-Out a Win for the U.S.?


Americans have become foul-mouthed. Vulgarity, swearing, cursing . . . such talk is everywhere, and it’s getting out of hand.

Now, I’m not perfect, but I do try to keep my own such outbursts to a minimum. Besides, my mother was right: The more you rely on profanity, the more stupid you appear. When you replace the perfect word with the common vulgarity, you appear intellectually lazy, not bright enough to retrieve from memory and deliver the truly apt nouns and verbs and adjectives.

Yet, there’s a time and place for everything. I can more than sympathize with use of profanity when the situation merits it.

Case in point: A woman in West Scranton, Pennsylvania, is facing a disorderly conduct charge for swearing at her toilet. She could go to jail for a whopping 90 days for this.

And all she did is curse her stopped-up, overflowing toilet.

Unfortunately, her bathroom window was open. Her words overflowed her property boundary and hit her neighbor’s ears. Rather than offer to help her with her toilet, her neighbor complained, telling her to stop using profanity. She responded with gusto.

Little did she know, however, that the man was an off-duty cop. He filed a complaint.

Even if swearing in public can be construed, legitimately, as a crime, there should be a few exceptions, no? Like swearing in your own home. And like swearing at a toilet . . . hers was, perhaps, one of those made during the period when Congress first regulated them to work so much worse than before.

The ACLU has now taken up the woman’s cause. Legal experts at The Volokh Conspiracy and elsewhere tend to agree with the ACLU attorney: there is no case here.

But Scranton’s officials stand by the off-duty cop and the arresting officer. Director of Public Safety Ray Hayes insisted that such incidents “are not as cut and dry as they originally appear.” And, while reading the original new story, I could almost hear what was coming: “Freedom of speech is not an unfettered right.”

Now, in a more charitable mood, I would grant him what he’s no doubt trying to say. “Free speech” must not be construed as the right to say literally anything in any context. You may not say fraudulent things when entering a contract, for instance.

But still, doesn’t the idea of “fettered rights” give you the creeps? This was said by a government official in a city of one of these United States. Ostensibly, the man who said it is there to protect our rights, “fettered” though they may be.

The key to understanding free speech is property. I have free speech in my home, of course. (Though my wife and daughters do complicate that right, practically speaking.) Further, I am one of those people who speaks and writes for a living, some of the time. My right to speak, along with “the freedom of the press” means that the recordings I make of my speech for my Common Sense radio program may not be confiscated or otherwise squelched by those who disagree. But my right to make one of these Common Sense recordings does not allow me to force any old radio station to run them. I have to gain permission and co-operation from each radio station. Thankfully, enough radio stations run them to make the whole project worthwhile. But my free speech rights don’t impose any obligations on any of them to put me “on the air.” It’s the stations’ rights to free speech (and property) that allows them to tell me No. Or better yet, Yes.

But I don’t see this unfolding of rights and obligations in society as a “fettering” of rights. It shows, instead, how more basic concepts, like the rights to liberty, property, and freedom of contract come to full flower in the real world. Indeed, without these basic rights — defended in other clauses of the Bill of Rights — the Free Speech clause of the Bill of Rights means next to nothing.

The classic explanation of the principle was Murray Rothbard’s response to Oliver Wendell Holmes’s famous cautionary maxim about not having a right to cry “Fire!” in a crowded theater. Rothbard rightly noted that, well, you do . . . when there’s a fire. When there’s no fire, then such a cry would be a breach of contract with the owner of the theater, who makes her living selling tickets to events that would be ruined by random “Fire!” shouts.

So, in the case of Dawn Herb, mother and loudly unwilling plumber, where, precisely, did her right to swear and cuss and curse end? When she opened the window?

You could argue that, but I doubt it. It seems to me that legitimate disagreements about nuisances such as loud music or loud cursings — all instances of real or apparent property rights conflicts, or the lack of property rights clearly defined — should be treated with a little common sense. And common sense would have it that one doesn’t call the cops when a neighbor’s toilet overflows and frustrations erupt.

Outbursts here and there are not the same thing as hours and hours of after-hours music, the kind of nuisance police are known to knock on doors to stop.

There’s no doubt that a person loudly swearing at the audience in a theater is disrupting all sorts of people’s rights. But, if that same person sees a fire and says the same things (just to gain attention) no one in their right mind would prosecute.

And when stuff belonging inside a toilet or septic system comes bubbling forth, no reasonable person would fail to excuse a few echoic bubblings-forth from the mouth of the toilet’s frustrated operator.

Such words can only seem, well, apt.

And if a window is open and the emergency language spews out of the house, just as the contents of the toilet spewed out of the bathroom and into the kitchen, as in this case, good neighbors might just show a little mercy. Even sympathy.

It will be interesting to see how the court case comes out. But in our better days, such a case would never see the inside of a courtroom.

Instead, Dawn would walk over to her neighbor’s home, knock on the front door, and say, “Gee, I’m sorry I lost my temper and disturbed you, neighbor.” Her neighbor would then say, “That’s okay. Under the circumstances, I can certainly understand.”

No lawyers needed. No threats of jail time.

Then he ought to invite her in for a cup of coffee, don’t you think?

And perhaps even apologize for not helping out, earlier. The #@&%!#.

Share:
Vote on It:
Average Vote:
 
About The Author
Paul Jacob is President of Citizens in Charge. His daily Common Sense commentary appears on the Web, via e-mail, and on radio stations across America.
 
TOWNHALL DAILY: Sign up today and receive Townhall.com daily lineup delivered each morning to your inbox.
JD
I have to agree with you - he sounds like a liberal with a uniform and gun, but definitely some kind of jerk who was looking to be offended.

Let me add, I've lived around regular, white natives and it seems they think they have the right to know your business and rat you out, or call the cops for anything perceived or imagined that might cause you trouble. One thing, I read, that helped check this type of behavior was when the police started billing for nuisance police calls

This is the creeping lib/socialist influence we've seen degenerating the American culture, since the 'great society'. Recently, I read an op ed in the Boston Globe where one of the writers recounted how the school physician closely questioned his kids about the habits of their parents: do they drink, use drugs, own guns, etc. Turning kids into rats, stool pigeons and against their parents is one of their goals in running the public schools.

There's no limit to the audacity of white liberals - these are the real white trash.

But then I've lived near Orientals and they wouldn't dream of minding anyone's business but their own...and they're not looking to be offended. What a contrast!

I might even sympathize with the jerk
if he had children in the house (no mention of any in the story.) He's probably the same lout that plays HIS MUSIC loud enough for everyone on the block to hear - then shows up at the door with his uniform on to intimidate anyone from filing any complaint.
If her swearing offended his delicate, sensitive ears SO MUCH - we used to have a solution to that, it was called a willy.
I hope he is ordered to pay HER court costs. Would be nice to know how this turns out...

Paul, get a grip
This case has very little to do with "free speech" and the 1st Amendment. I don't now how many of you actually read the ordinance at the Volokh Conspiracy, but here is the actual ordinance:

A person is guilty of disorderly conduct if, with intent to cause public inconvenience, annoyance or alarm, or recklessly creating a risk thereof, he:
(1) engages in fighting or threatening, or in violent or tumultuous behavior;
(2) makes unreasonable noise;
(3) uses obscene language, or makes an obscene gesture; or
(4) creates a hazardous or physically offensive condition by any act which serves no legitimate purpose of the actor.

This case should be dismissed as soon as a judge sees it. It, however probably will not, and the lady will likely incur legal fees which would be larger than any fine contemplated. The case hinges on the “intent to cause public” phrase. Yelling at your toilet inside the house can not be interpreted to be “intent to cause public” anything just because a busybody next door overhears it through a pair of open windows.

I know that the unelected legislators located at E Capitol St NE and 1st St NE Washington, DC have really manipulated the 1st amendment and made it applicable to the States, but they haven’t gotten around to making “yelling at your toilet” a federal issue yet.

If I could arrest everyone
who curses and makes obscene gestures in public then I would have everyone under the age of 30 in jail. Even little boys heading to the big Catholic Boys School behind my apartments have foul and filthy mouths as they march in their sharply creased, perfectly polished school uniforms in the mornings. Try to point out that there really is no need to end every single sentence with *and s**t* and you get told to F*** off.

One more time, it is the duty of PARENTS to teach the little brats that some language is suitable only for the gutter -- or for those times when you are being kidnapped or carjacked and need to call attention to yourself. And it is also the duty of parents to teach themselves self control, lest they see their three year old greeting the pastor after church one day by saying something he did, in fact, hear from you.

Yes, Americans and Canadians are far, far FAR too lazy to learn any words but F***, S***, B***h and Ho, but arresting them all for potty mouth is impractical. Try instead to remind them that potty mouth shows lack of imagination. Odds are pretty good they will call you one or more of those words, but the message will eventually get out.

Vulgarity and Other Thoughts
Cursing, cussing or whatever word is correct has intrigued me from time to time. An analysis of the whole idea of some arrangements of letters being considered more foul than other arrangements begs the answer to the question, WHY? Why is sh*t worse than "hits"? Who decides such matters? Who cares about such matters? Who convinces people they must feel offended when hearing certain word sounds? I am not a profane person when talking but I am perplexed about recent uses of our language. When did we start demanding respect, instead of earning it? When was the decision made a store clerk can walk away and refuse to serve you because they don't like your tone? When did we forget the adage, "A little learning is a dangerous thing"? Where , oh where, did we ever come up with the notion that self esteem is not based on accomplishment but can be instilled by false praise for failures?

History
I don't know either of the parties involved in this case, but would not be surprised to find that this was not the first time there was some type of conflict between them. Was one named Hatfield and the other McCoy?

Excellent point... somewhat hidden.
"I have free speech in my home, of course. (Though my wife and daughters do complicate that right, practically speaking.)"

Actually, your "free speech" in your home is not really complicated by your wife and daughters. YOU have made the decision to be responsible, respectful, and a good role model.

Unfortunately, all three characteristics have been disappearing in our degenerating society in recent years.

I guess my kids must be right…, I AM older than dirt, because I remember when a neighbor would jump up and “offer to help…. “



History
I don't know either of the parties involved in this case, but would not be surprised to find that this was not the first time there was some type of conflict between them. Was one named Hatfield and the other McCoy?

Locker room talk!
When my son was a freshman in HS, he was a starter on the Varsity football team.

As I suspected, it wasn't long before he started using a few "unacceptable" words. We quickly had a very serious discussion about "locker room talk!"

I made it very clear to him that while I couldn't control what went on in the locker room, I WAS in control of what kind of language he was allowed to use outside the locker room and in our home... and "locker room talk" was not acceptable and would not be tolerated!

End of that issue!




Inconsistent And Worse
When I was a young boy and my Mother would serve liver for dinner; I would run away and hide. At that time I considered that to be the worse type of abuse a child could sustain. My mind has now been changed-the other evening I was watching 12 year old boys play youth basketball in league play, one boy was tasked to represent his team for the opening tip off. As they prepared for the jump, a loud voice came from the stands demanding all to "wait". The mother of one of the boys rushed on to the floor and in front of all the other parents and players positioned her sons feet so he could get a better jump. I would rather eat liver; I would still be running; I probably would have fainted just after I cut my wrists; humiliation at its zenith. I felt for the player and died inside for him. Parents at youth events can and are often vile. Cursing officials, other parents, team members, and opposing team members is not unusual. Fights are encouraged and young female cheerleaders often shock me with the level of "humping" that is taught, cheered, and permitted. We are in decline in our civility and inconsistent in our attention to morals, if we even have any.

OFF Topic: BTW, WE ARE BOYCOTTING ROBERT
.

Can't we all just get along?
.

Add to Boycott
HalD
NYC Dogg
jetpilot
John Knoop
Just to name a few
May even be the same person

NOW HEAR THIS!
I don't like my -----ng toilet either, and I don't give a ---- who knows it.

Jacob starts out by saying that...
"Americans have become foul-mouthed. Vulgarity, swearing, cursing . . . such talk is everywhere, and it’s getting out of hand."

Then he goes on to defend same.
So exactly what is his point?


Any fool
Can swear like a marine.

We now belong to a nation of fools without the ability to debate or articulate our thoughts.

If "law" worked to make us better
... we'd have our Ph.D.s in Perfect by now.

Law is a poor substitute for personal virtue. It can neither simulate it nor bring it forth. It can only try to punish the lack of it -- and usually goes either too far, or not far enough.

Everyone can see that the poor woman whose toilet was spewing into her kitchen should not be punished for swearing audibly under those conditions.

Everyone but the law. The law is like human thought translated into ones and zeroes. It may become very sophisticated in terms of input and output, but it still can't intuit right and wrong. It takes human application of the law to produce those quantities.

Even "law" depends on us, the humans, to have its effect -- for good or ill. Food for thought.

misguided cop
I'm willing to bet you that there are the same words this woman said are piped into his house for his kids to hear via t.v.

Seems to me
If using a potty mouth is grounds for arrest then we need to round up all the rappers, entertainers (especially 'comedians') and all other people guilty of cussing and rude language.

First it was smoking banned in your own home
Now it is cussing when you are upset

Does anybody see a disconnect here?

Man oh man
There have beem times, we would rent a movie, and find there was so m uch swearing right off the bat, that you couldn't even find a story line. Stopped watching, $3.99, wasted.
Even prime time tv any more.

I'm sorry, but a few years ago, they made great movies without sewer talk. The same could be done today.

I too don't understand why Mr Jacob would start out talking about gutter talk, and morph into defending it. I understand defending a woman who was in her own home, but the article jumped to the point of making no point.Get my point?:=)

Missing the point
It looks like some of the commenters are missing the point of the column. He first belabors the woman cursing her toiler, but then comes back with the statement “Even if cursing on the street could be made illegal” and discusses the “fettering” of the first amendment. Of course he is wrong on his interpretation of the first amendment which says:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Now it is true that the Supreme Court over the years has expanded the meaning of this amendment beyond all recognition, but it STILL HAS NOT prohibited the local communities from prohibiting cursing in the street, or on the radio, or on TV. What the Supremes have done in general is:

1. They have made the amendment applicable to the States (in addition to congress).
2. They have, in general, prohibited the government from prior censorship of the press.
3. They have prohibited the government from punishing a very select few types of speech. (Primarily political speech).
4. The have made it literally impossible to sue a newspaper for libel.

They have not ruled that you can say anything at any time without fear of consequences. In addition, they have NOT ruled that the amendment is applicable to private entities. If you go into work and call your boss a pig and get fired, do not expect help from the first amendment.

As I said earlier though, this case really has nothing to do with the first amendment. The law in Scranton stated “with intent to cause public inconvenience”. Shouting at your toilet inside your house is NOT causing a public inconvenience unless you go to great lengths to make it so. e.g. Use a 1000 watt P.A. system to shout at your toilet.

Warrior
Liver and Onions done up in bacon fat with a baked potato and spinach is to die for.

as in


yummm

Reply to Moonbat Exterminator
Yes, I had the same thought you've expressed, and I also wondered what the neighbor was doing listening. Unless, as somebody suggested, the swearer hooked up a loudspeaker system, which seems unlikely, the Offended One had to have been pretty focused on what was going on in somebody else's house, since toilets aren't located out in the back yard. I wonder what else he has listened in on? This sounds like a guy who would report you for being naked (in your house, which he saw because he was peeking in the bathroom window).

Re swearing, there's an argument on both sides. A soldier who gets shot in the belly isn't likely to respond, "Mercy me" or "Oh dear" and I hope that nobody would expect that of him. On the other hand, my husband recalls his World War II sergeant who applied the F-word nine or ten times in every sentence, as in "Turn the f***ing wheel to the f***ing left f***ing sharp and back the f***er down the f***ing hill, etc". The impression of linguistic emphasis was such a strong one that it has endured 65 years, although my husband has long since forgotten the fine points of Army truck-driving.

Moderation in all things.

re: Missing the point
Vic:

I thought that what you said WAS the point of the column! That is, aside from your criticisms, your interpretation was Paul Jacob's interpretation. Different words, same point.

All Jacob's talk about the First Amendment and such was to show that OF COURSE local jurisdictions have reason to treat some noise nuisances as crimes, and some outbursts in public places as ... what the toilet curser was charged with. But his point was, in this case, neither charge should be applied, and normal civility and neighborliness was in order, not the law.

Now bad points, all.

anne, mrs paddy et all
having been a frequent visitor to the scranton area, I would have been less surprised is the poor woman was swearing because she was stuck in a depressed area of the country. There is continual emigration from the area as it is not what anyone would consider for future growth. The only thing of note in the area is the natl train museum, part of the natl park system. But I am surprised the cop didn't first warn her. Kind of like, stop or i'll shoot. It's not like cursing is a threat to anybody, especially when directed towards the crapper. What was she going to do, physically assault the toilet and thus require her neighbor the cop to intervene in order to save the crapper's life

I do not appareciate your tone
While I have been told (as a fallback position, I assume) that someone who is sitting behind me during Mass yammering to her friend about the photos on her cell phone does not *appreciate your tone*, I believe that the only way to call attention to bad behaviour is to call attention to it.

When I am dealing with clients, of course, I cannot call attention to their bad behaviour, but I find that simply saying nothing at all calls attention to it for them. Most people ralize that they are behaving like prats while they are doing it, and I have had apologies on occasion with this technique.

It would be wonderful if we could somehow pass laws that would be enforceable -- say with Lockjaw -- for people who could not control their potty mouths. We will certainly never convince people not to use that talk in our presence by not saying anything about it. And it has nothing to do with the Constitution for heavens sake. As Heinlein pointed out, the machinery of civilization works poorly enough as it is, without people throwing sand into it deliberately.

wildwest
Thanks for the chuckle. I actually feel sorry for the crapper now. LOL

Check out my blog for the latest parody.

AGREEMENT WITH THE ACLU!!!
This is the first time I'm aware of agreeing with the ACLU. The prosecution has no case. If the prosecution loses, there should be some penalty, like, maybe, being required to stick their heads in the place where all this nonsense started.

Wildwest
Thanks, ROTFLMAO!
Scranton PD needs to have this officer take some psych tests.
Of course there is a time and a place for everything.
Swearing at the crapper, yes.
Swearing at one's neighbor,no.

I had the world's dumbest racehorse for many years. Cursing him was a daily thing, but I always did it in a nice tone of voice.
Big dummy went to his grave thinking that &%#$%^(*&@? SOB was a sign of affection.
And it was.

A time and a place...
when all speech is appropriate and/or when it is not.

I should ad ...
discernment by the speaker and/or the hearer, that is the key.

Nothing is sacred even in our own homes anymore!

Anne, mrs paddy, katy, wildwest
Evenin', y'all!!

I left for the gun range, and came back to find a post from...the artist formerly known as Robert, telling me to calm down. If he only knew how calm I was! I just pictured a helo from Wal-Mart as my target....

Boy, I feel GREAT!!!

As for this thread, I agree with taking out all the rappers and entertainers that make a pretty coin try to push the envelope.

Knocked-Up
If you desire to see where we are in coarseness, see the movie Knocked Up. It is portrayed as a comedy and it may be humorous to the most crass in our society but it has absolutely no redeeming value as entertainment. The "F" word is the most commonly spoken word in the script followed closely by pen*s and vERgina. If one intends to be crude for the sake of crudeness, it seems pronunciation would be attended to. The movie offends because of the steady waterfall of profane language which marred the movie and illuminates the Hollywood penchant for filth. Hollywood, has an agenda and it is not as benign as just to make money. This movie could have been much more successful economically with a decent script.



Hooray for contemporary Hollywood
I saw "Knocked Up" this summer, and "Warrior" here misses the point. The purpose of the movie was that the prospect of having a baby, intended or not, socializes the male. This is as conservative a view as you can get -- ask George Gilder, who has written extensively on this subject. Frankly, I'm sick and tired of literal-minded "culture war" Mrs. Grundy types who ritualistically denounce "Hollywood" with their classic selective cherry-picked "evidence." I enjoy today's Hollywood. No apologies.

Warrior, my spouse and I would agree
with your comment 100%. The movie was awful, BECAUSE of the language. We watched it all the way through, then gave it 'one' Netflix star rating. There were MANY viewers who posted opinions along this line. My husband's co-worker had told him he and his wife "loved, loved" this movie. Go figure! After we saw it we could not understand why he said that (given they are parents of grown children and heavily involved in their church.)You are right, the movie could have been SO much better without the profanity.


Second comment, not allowed space
to put in one.

As for the toilet swearing woman and the off-duty cop....I am also wondering what is up between these two (or at least the cop who appears to have some type of grudge going on.)
What does this cop hear every day in the station? What next? Lawsuits against all the other cops? Give me a break!

While this is off-topic, this column reminded me of an experience I had yesterday. We were leaving a store parking lot and I saw a couple changing their two babies on their car. Sure enough, when done they looked over their shoulders and shoved the dirty diapers under their car and drove off. As their windows were open and they had to stop for traffic, I drove over to where they had parked and held up the diapers while yelling, "It's ok, I will pick up your trash for you!!!!"

I thought about how it is their right (even though it ticks me off) to litter (whether there is a law or not.) It is my right to be mad about it, but I really do not have the right to tell them to pick it up. Later, when I thought more about it I wished I had just hung out while they were changing the babies, making small talk ("what cute babies, are they twins?)
and then offered them a bag to dispose of their trash. Of course they probably would have tossed the bag out their car window at the first chance, but at least I would have make a point without making a public scene (and ending up embarrassing myself...although I did not use profanity!)WHY these two lazy parents could not place the trash in their car until being able to dispose of it properly is just something I don't get.



Sign Up to Post Your CommentsSign Up to Post Your Comments
If you are already registered, click here to login. Otherwise, please take a few seconds to register with Townhall.com. Once you sign up, you’ll be able to post your comments immediately, use the action center, get podcasts, and more!
Note: Fields marked with a red asterisk (*) are required.
Salutation:
First Name:
*
Last Name:
*
Email:
*
Nickname:
*
Note: Nick name will be shown when you post comments.
Address 1:
*
Address 2:
City:
*
State:
*
Zip:
*
Phone:
      
Your daily must-read of conservative columns, cartoons and news. Coulter, Sowell, Krauthammer and more.
(Bi-Weekly) We highlight the best opportunities from our partners for surveys, action items and more.