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Monday, June 30, 2008
Paul Greenberg :: Townhall.com Columnist
Profoundly Superficial
by Paul Greenberg
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Barack Obama now has cited the Nuremberg trials after the Second World War as a model of the way Osama bin Laden should be tried in the (unlikely) event he’s ever taken alive. He recommends Nuremberg as an example to follow because, he says, those trials embodied universal legal principles.

The Nuremberg trials a model of international law? Those stone-faced judges in Red Army uniforms peering down from the bench at Nuremberg, shoulder boards in place and guilty verdicts at the ready, must have been there as representatives of Comrade Stalin’s well-known devotion to universally accepted legal principles.

This is not to say that the judges at Nuremberg couldn’t demonstrate exquisite tact. For example, not a one noted the Soviets’ responsibility for the Katyn Massacre, a war crime none dared accuse them of at the time.

In 1946, the Soviets were still Our Fighting Russian Allies. And so the mass execution of the Polish army’s officer corps in the Katyn forest was pinned on the Nazis, who were conveniently at hand. What would one more war crime matter in a record already so monstrous?

Nor did any of the judges at Nuremberg make much of the infamous Nazi-Soviet Pact that precipitated the whole, bloody cataclysm that was the Second World War. That alliance between fellow dictators was simply tossed down the memory hole. It became a non-event.

At Nuremberg, the Soviet Union was invited to sit in judgment of its old partner in aggression — on a charge of waging aggressive war. To wit, the war of aggression that the Soviet Union joined with Nazi Germany to ignite in September of 1939. Barack Obama would have been on sounder ground if he had cited the proceedings at Nuremberg not as an example of justice but irony.

You have to wonder if anybody remembers any history any more. Barack Obama doesn’t seem to. The unthinking simply assume, as Sen. Obama does, that Nuremberg was some kind of model of justice. Hey, the Nazi leaders were hanged, weren’t they?

In the long tradition of politicized law, Nuremberg was as clear an example of victor’s justice as any other show trial. Sen. Obama, however, seems to think it a dandy precedent. Mainly because of its propaganda value: He argues that a Nuremberg-style trial of Osama bin Laden would demonstrate the evil nature of our enemy to the whole world. The proceedings at Nuremberg did indeed preserve the outward forms of justice — while sacrificing its essence. The universal principle that Nuremberg represented was propaganda.

It would take someone who cared more about principle than popularity to point out that, whatever Nuremberg was, it wasn’t an exercise in ideal justice. Someone like the late Robert A. Taft, who had a way of offending popular opinion for no better reason than adherence to principle.

In 1946, as he prepared to run for president yet again, Sen. Taft was invited to give a talk at little Kenyon College in Ohio. He used the occasion to say the obvious — that the court assembled at Nuremberg was anything but an exercise in universally accepted principles of law. “The trial of the vanquished by the victors,” he warned, “cannot be impartial no matter how it is hedged about with the forms of justice.”

Robert A. Taft was promptly rewarded for his honesty by being branded a Nazi sympathizer by his critics — on both sides of the aisle. Yet his warning against staging a trial to make a political point still holds. Or it would if anyone remembered it.

Instead, Nuremberg is now cited as an example to emulate by a presidential candidate who, whatever his faults, has demonstrated an almost unfailing ability to please the crowd.

It may be justified to take vengeance for the unspeakable wrongs inflicted on the world’s innocents, but to do so under color of law isn’t.

Given my druthers, I’d rather see Osama bin Laden hanged from a sour apple tree than have him languish indefinitely, like his confederates at Guantanamo, under the aegis of the Supreme Court of the United States. Not that his summary execution should be confused with enlightened jurisprudence. Like any act of vengeance, it would be the rawest form of justice, but at least it wouldn’t be the exercise in hypocrisy that Nuremberg was.

However much various defendants at Nuremberg richly deserved hanging, or maybe drawing and quartering, to cite those trials as the embodiment of universal legal principles is … well, ahistorical. We all know Sen. Obama is a young man, but there are times when he sounds as if he’d been born yesterday.

At his best, which is when he is speaking, Barack Obama is an impressive figure. This isn’t some John Kerry or Hillary Clinton going down a list of talking points hoping that one will strike a chord. Sen. Obama usually responds directly to the question he’s asked rather than riding off in all directions. He pays his interlocutor the courtesy of careful attention and a respectful answer. In that regard, he reminds one of Bill Clinton when that former president still had his touch, and could establish a personal bond with a questioner.

But once Barack Obama is no longer trading in some staple of his party’s appeal — identity politics, say, or class warfare — and starts messing with history, he demonstrates only the most tenuous hold on his subject. And he winds up, again like Bill Clinton, sounding profoundly superficial.

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ISen. Obama...

seems to have gotten his ideas about the Nuremburg trials from the excellent Spencer Tracy - Marlena Dietrich film *JUDGMENT AT NUREMBURG*

If any of our soldiers, pilots or missles gets Osama bin Laden in their crosshairs, I hope the shoot him, as one would a rabid animal!

Obama on Osama
I would not expect that Osama would be taken alive so I think that Obama's proposal of a Nurenburg type trial is mute. However it does point out that Obama is very unaware of history and quite naive.

OBAMA-HYSTERIA
Cautious indecision is not decisive; this is toe dipping proceeding filled with fear and tribulation. "Soundings" is reported dependence on what has been known and pre-experienced; ergo, the Nuremburg "experience" is sheer hypothetical reverting to rump trials witnessed to while a student at Harvard Law. This is part of the curricula at Grand Olde Ivy with much hyperbola and insular drama and histrionics of the Socratic Technique which followed Barack "Barry" Hussain bin O'BoyToy (nee: Obama) to the present century.

OBAMA-CRATS: What are you pretending not to know???
Name one - just 1 - redeeming quality relative to Barack "Barry" Hussain bin O'Boomerang (nee: Obama)???

Barack "Barry" Hussain bin O'BoomBox is far too elitist to revert to an antiquated film starring blank faced types as Spenser Tracy and Marlene Dietrich.

I believe Barack “Barry” Hussain bin O’Boom-Boom (nee: Obama) has far more education than intelligence. It is his Preacher Zeke manifestations with microphone and stagecraft that reminds me of Elmer Gantry and the hysteria scenes in the Chautauqua Tent

Riley
So...what's your point?

Woody from Iowa

Obama the historian...
..did he ever have to take a history class? And can he locate Hawaii on a map?

What exactly is a community activist (Obama's former job)? Aren't Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton community activists? How much does it pay to be a community activist? Do you get 2 weeks vacation after the first year as a community activist? How many community activists does it take to screw America?

REILLY

In paragraph three of your 9:42 am post you refer to *JUDGMENT AT NUREMBURG* as "antiquated. It was made in 1961.

In paragraph 4 you are reminded of *ELMER GANTRY*, a film made in 1960, based on a 1927 Sinclair Lewis novel.

Tell me, which is the more "antiquated"?

By the way, *JUDGMENT* has been shown on Turner Classic Movies within the last few months, so is seems quite possible that Sen. Obama may have seen it,

BHO is clueless on this.
9/11 was not an attack on the international community.

It was an attack on the financial and economic symbol of the United States, even if a number of people at WTC were not Americans.

It meant to damage the United States.

If the international community wishes to adopt some Nuremburg trial procedure in prosecuting OBL if he is ever captured, that is its business.

But we have our own business.

He attacked our nation.

If we were to capture him(very unlikely), but if we were, it would be insane to turn him over to some international tribunal.

Whatever "justice" is meted out, it ought to be by us.


Woody
It is clear in Riley's estimation, Obama is not suited for the presidency!!!!

Reilly-I'm going off-subject for a momen

Judging by your "handle" I guess you have either seen the excellent ITV miniseries "Reilly Ace of Spies" or read the book by Robin Bruce-Lockhart.

I think can claim a connection to "Reilly," albiet a VERY tangential one. When I lived in England I studied singing with Robin's brother Rupert (or as he would have said, RrrrOOO-pert).

Do it the easy way


When a war is won, the winner shoots all the leaders of the loser.

Is Obama Really That Intelligent?
This, of course, should be the question that crosses every voter's mind. And I'm not talking of the apple-polishing, good goverment, spin-doctored type of lawyeristic intelligence. There is enough of that type of intelligence in appalling large enough numbers today.

There is a certain type of intelligence that used to be learnt in our elite schools of the past. Famous prep schools such as the Latin School and Groton used to prepare young men for the rigours of Yale, Harvard, and Princeton. They used to mix both the classic and modern texts, require rigours rhetorical skills, and push the students outside of thier comfort zone using both tradition and the ideas of service. These prep and elite schools produced our nations elite lawyers, judges, CEOs, doctors, and cabinet secretaries. These men were infused with both the wisdom of Western Civiization and intellectual foundations of American Exceptionalism. They could quote Cicero in Latin, Montesqeiue and De Touqueville in French, as well as understand writers as diverse as Goethe and Freud. They understood not only the mechanics of thier specialties, but also their theoretical underpinnings. This system of education produced our best bankers, financiers, lawyers, CEOs, doctors and surgeons, and of course politicians.

Obama, as we are repeatedly told, finished 1st in his Havard Law School class. He is allegedly the best and the brightest. Yet, as Greenberg illustrates he consistently gets wrong basic history (recent history, I might add), geography, and belies either a certain niavetee or ignorance of world affairs that would get him into trouble in any decent high school or community college. Obama appears to be a Marxist without ever reading Marx; a Christian with out ever studying The Gospels. Obama reeks over a triumphant, ignorant, post-modernist mind-set that, if he is elected, will prove dangerous in the coming years.

This is just one example
in a long string of examples that demonstrate Barack Obama is historically illiterate.

It's not a matter of his "remembering" history, it's a matter of his never knowing history. Not a good sign for someone who is suppose to lead the most powerful country in the world. But then again, with the way people judge things today, probably more important to many people in this country is whether he wears boxers or briefs.

JPK
Good analysis. Thanks for taking the time to write.

The Libs have spent decades dumbing down our educational institutions because an ignorant populace is an easily ruled populace. They are conniving and diabolical in their goal to rule this country.

It figures
Obama, as the good time MTV messiah, has a knowledge of history based on Hollywood entertainment vehicles. Everything about him is entirely superficial. He may be a mile wide, but is only an inch deep.

loco:
You're right. Obama is not ready for the Presidency.

Our antennae rise


Good writing once again by Greenie. I like that header; "Profoundly Superficial" --what once would've been quipped "Deep down Obama's shallow."

As happened for the Nurnberg Trials; Obama is all for Drama. Call it the Osama Drama; concocted by Obama

TARGET #1
TO JPK
Wonderful analysis and you remind me how and why I flunked prep school classics. A 1950’s baby and still “ex umbria - ad luminum”. Longfellow “Sail On Oh Ship of State” and Walt Whitman “Oh Captain – My Captain” remain metaphor well remembered and aligned to any and every presidential choice.

I use “Barack ‘Barry’ Hussain bin O’BoomBox (nee: Obama)” not to attack the man but as my best and maybe only means to protect the office of the President.

Here in New York there is Ground Zero, my sincere fear is with ineptitude all New York will be Ground Zero. This city will always be Target #1.

SIDNEY REILLY
TO GRETCHAN:

Yes I am a big Sidney Reilly Fan and first learned about his exploits from the series. All the actors were superb but most intriguing were the truth of the characters; for example, Goshen the young naval spy, Boris Zakarov and Armstrong-Vickers, Commander Cromie and his dying heroism, Edward Hill (great memoirs via Google) and my favourite (Eng spell) Fanny Kaplan. Join me, I celebrate Fanny Kaplan Day September 11 the date she got shot in the Lubianka. There was a Caryl Houselander - a poet, songwriter, artist and spiritualist who truly loved Sidney Reilly living cloistered in a London convent until her death in 1953. Pepitta, I believe, never remarried begging the British Government to tell her what really happened to her husband.

Artuzov was eventually shot in the "Generals Plot" by Stalin in 1933.

I write fictional character scenario but could never make this cast of characters up.

the argument for no prisoners.
I'm 75 yrs old, fought in 9 wars, and I tell you, I had never taken any live prisoners. Reason, I did not want to fight that person twice. Even in my time on the field, I can guarantee you, that every time I sent a prisoner back to headquarter, that person was turned loose to fight me again and kill my men. Solution, no more prisoners. They were captured, made to talk, and sent to their happy hunting grounds. I won my battles and most of my men went home, and most important, I went home safe.
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