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Friday, June 20, 2008
Paul Greenberg :: Townhall.com Columnist
On Suing the Enemy
by Paul Greenberg
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Nothing so well illustrates the essential asymmetry of this country's worldwide struggle against terrorism than last week's 5-to-4 opinion out of the U.S. Supreme Court. The enemy is fighting a war; we are litigating a plea.

Throughout the sleepy Nineties, we dealt with two - two! - earlier and incomplete attacks on the World Trade Center not as the barbaric acts of war they were, but as isolated matters for the criminal justice system to deal with when and if it could. While we slept, the enemy plotted. We paid the bloody price for our obtuseness - in thousands of innocent lives - on September 11, 2001.

Now we're proceeding with great deliberation down the same blind alley.How describe this latest opinion from the high court? It's not easy to get a handle on this decision for, against or maybe just vaguely about the exercise (or paralysis) of the president's wartime powers. Here is how His Honor Anthony M. Kennedy - heir to the equally vacuous Sandra Day O'Connor's swing vote on the high court - "explained" what his majority opinion means, or rather doesn't mean:

"Our opinion does not undermine the Executive's powers as Commander in Chief. On the contrary, the exercise of those powers is vindicated, not eroded, when confirmed by the Judicial Branch."

But doesn't this majority opinion de-commission or at least disable the system of military courts that the chief executive put in place, and Congress repeatedly reformed in order to meet the court's earlier objections?

Like the rest of Mr. Justice Kennedy's majority opinion, the answer to that question isn't clear. In the way of those who, when asked for a little simple clarity, do little but repeat their original non-sequiturs only in a louder voice, Justice Kennedy declaims: "It bears repeating that our opinion does not address the content of the law that governs petitioners' detention. That is a matter yet to be determined."

But when? For this is the third time in four years - or is it the fourth time in three years, and does it matter? - that the high court has left the question of how or if to try enemy combatants up in the cloudy air. What are the other branches of government, or even the lower courts, let alone our troops in the field, now to do with these detainees and future ones? The weightless burden of the court's confused and confusing guidance on this subject might be summed up as: To Be Determined.

Each time the Supreme Court has ruled against this system of trying enemy combatants, lawful or unlawful, Congress and the executive - at the court's explicit behest - have moved to meet its objections, only to be told once again that the tribunals still don't pass constitutional muster.

Associate Justice Antonin Scalia, who is nothing if not plain-spoken, was his usual clear and precise self on this occasion, even if he does have a well-known tendency to call a spade not just a spade but a damned shovel:

"The game of bait-and-switch that today's opinion plays upon the Nation's Commander in Chief will make the war harder on us. It will almost certainly cause more Americans to be killed."

And not just Americans, if Mr. Justice Scalia proves as prescient as he is plain. Already prisoners at Guantanamo who have had to be released have returned to attacking American troops and/or civilian targets, and had to be recaptured. Having again entered the maw of the American judicial system, who knows if they will ever face justice? That question, too, remains Yet To Be Determined.

If and when these military tribunals are reconstituted still again, the high court can declare their standards unconstitutional still again. Till these detainees - including the confessed mastermind of the 9/11 attacks, who should have been swinging from the end of a stout rope long ago - die peacefully of old age. At that point, having voted to delay justice indefinitely, the U.S. Supreme Court can again complain that the process it has repeatedly prolonged is taking entirely too long.

Once upon another time, namely Franklin Roosevelt's, most of a group of German saboteurs that had infiltrated this country were caught, tried by a military tribunal that was convened by executive order for that purpose, promptly convicted and then executed - all within seven weeks. Can anyone imagine that kind of swift and effective justice from this court?

Of course, that war was different. America was determined to win it. At this point, to judge by last week's majority opinion, it's not clear whether the Supreme Court realizes we're in one.

The one thing that this latest example of law at its least vigilant does make clear is the importance of this year's presidential election. John McCain, who knows something about war and being a prisoner thereof, says he would appoint judges who are committed to judicial restraint; he's criticized this decision. Barack Obama has praised it. However confused and confusing this latest decision out of the high court, it does clarify the decision facing the American voter this November.

Something else became clearer to me on wading through the court's muddy majority opinion: If Abraham Lincoln had had a Supreme Court like this to deal with, and he pretty much did, and had that president and commander-in-chief failed to outmaneuver that court's pro-slavery chief justice, the Hon. Roger B. Taney, he of the infamous Dred Scott decision, then I might well be writing this column from Little Rock, Ark., C.S.A.

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New Territory
This is more complicated than it seems. I doubt Madison envisioned congress granting the president "authority to use force" to enforce something called a U.N. resolution as in Iraq, or given permission to "use all necessary force" to pursue terrorists, as in Afghanistan. I seriously doubt he would have called such a thing constitutional. I believe this begins the dilemma we're in since war wasn't officially declared on the countries we're now conducting war in by the cowards in congress. Now, what to do with civilians (possible terrorists) captured on or near a battlefield of a constitutionally undeclared war? SCOTUS is telling us now.

Lesson learned #1: Congress needs to clearly declare war against a country that we're going to invade. This puts responsibility directly in the hands of the peoples representatives in congress and the president can then conduct the war as commander in chief. As it is, congress cowards can now call it Bush's War.

Lesson learned #2: After a constitutional declaration of war, civilians, in a military tribunal, who are convicted of taking up arms against U.S. soldiers (terrorists) should be interogated and executed, as in all previous wars.

Lesson learned #3: Entangling alliances with the U.N. should be outlawed as unconstitutional.

SteveL
On looking into the issue further, it appears that the idea of taking foreigners and bringing them back to our soil has not really come up with regard to habeas corpus. The arguments have centered on the location of the courts and not how the people came to be in them. (That isn't quite true, there have been cases in which it has been argued that certain classes of people in our jails don't have habeas corpus rights, but they have always lost. Apparently even the germans tried for sedition and shot that one sees used as an example of the good old days, had their habeas rights affirmed. They just didn't do them any good because they were guilty.)

Even the serious opponents of this ruling acknowledge that had the detainees been brought to Leavenworth rather than Gitmo, they would have Habeas rights.

The issue here is whether one can get around this by pretending that Cuba has sovereignty at Gitmo despite the fact that we would laugh at any attempts by them to exercise that sovereignty. Which is pretty much the defintion of not being sovereign.

Fortunately the Supreme Court did not go along with this subterfuge.

Lon makes excellent points
The issues are really very simple. Either the detainees are POWs covered by the Geneava Conventions, or they are enemy combatants covered by US or Cuban law.

Where US law is applied so is due process.

SteveL
Actually foreign enemies who were captured on the battlefield does not describe most of the people that are at Guantanamo. If it did there would be less of an issue here. We are really talking about people grabbed either by us, or people looking to make a quick buck off of us, and brought back to an American prison to be held indefinitely. I am not sure that the British traditionally foresaw this idea.

So are you really asking whether there is any precedence for applying Habeas corpus rules to people arrested on foreign soil and brought into American soil? Or are you basing your argument on a misdescription of who the guantanamo prisoners are?

Mr Justice Kennedy,

and the other four moonbat Supremes who arrived at this ill-conceived opinion, make the argument for voting for McCain (or against Obama, if you will) this coming November. We might not get another Alito or Thomas, but I doubt if we would be lumbered with clones of the "Moonbat 5"!

looneydogg
Yea it is unfortunate you were let out.
And, as I suspected, a typical liberal tactic. You would not ANSWER my question stupid (in your estimate) or not. You redirected the exchange.

for Lon
Lon claims: "They simply affirmed one of the cornerstones of American law as it was inherited from the British."

As it was "inherited from the British," habeas corpus applied to persons who were arrested in BRITAIN and held for trial in Britain (or in this case, in America).

Habeas corpus has NEVER, NEVER been extended to foreign enemies who were captured while fighting on a foreign battlefield. Not by the British. Not by anyone, as far as I know.

Until now.

The idea that an Afghan terrorist who is captured by American soldiers in a firefight in Afghanistan or other foreign nation should be given habeas corpus, is absolutely UNPRECEDENTED.

Go ahead, find me a precedent in ANY previous war.

for MDoggg
MDoggg asks: "If bin laden surrendered tomorrow, would you want him executed on the spot?"

What I would want, is for President Bush to invite in CNN, Fox News, C-SPAN, and al-Jazeera to videotape it.

And then President Bush should PERSONALLY push the barrel of a gun into Osama's mouth, pull the trigger, and blow Osama's brains out, televised live on worldwide TV.

JPK
The Supreme Court does seem to disagree with you on the jurisdiction issue. And it does not seem in particular keeping with the Constitution that Congress can take away people's rights just by taking away their ability to affirm those rights. So it seems likely the majority was right on this point.

What the Army does now after catching an insurgent or terrorist is largely the same thing as they did before. It does appear that the army may have to keep better records when it transfers captives into indefinite confinement on US controlled soil. It seems unlikely that the soldiers who captured the insurgent would need to appear in court. Habeas Corpus hearings are not the same as criminal trials. It seems doubtful that Miranda Rights will be involved, but confessions based on torture are probably out. What would the insurgents be suing the soldiers for exactly? On what basis would there be liability in a firefight? I suppose in a Haditha type case suits might be possible, but that has nothing to do with this decision.

The supreme court never addressed most of the issues you raised because they are idiotic. They simply affirmed one of the cornerstones of American law as it was inherited from the British. It was a rather minimal step. That is why the criticism of the decision has seemed to border on the unhinged.

Lon
You seem blissfully unaware that the courts have no jurisdiction concerning GITMO. The Senate controls the jurisdiction of the courts per the Constitution, and made the GITMO detainees off limits to the courts in 2006. Congress signed this into law. In short, the Congress granted the detainees certain rights that could be heard in the US 1st District Court. That was it.

Lon, pray tell what does the Army do now after catching an insurgent or terrorist? According the SCOTUS, the army must allow said insurgent a lawyer, and that lawyer can now petition a Federal judge whether the insurgent can be legally be held. SCOTUS didn't say, but we can now assume that the soldiers who captured the insurgent and perhaps the CO as well will be called into court. Does this now mean that soliders have to read these guys thier Miranda Rights? Can the insurgents sue the individual soldiers? If the insurgent was wounded during a fire fight, can he sue for damages? The SCOTUS never addressed any of these things; but they don't have to. Granting of habeas corpus is just the beginning.

Uncle Max
Your response is PRICELESS! A big fear of mine is that allowing these folks at Gitmo access to our judicial system under the protection of the American criminal liberties union would allow them to get off on some sort of technicality. The question has already been asked on Town Hall. "Were they given their Miranda rights on the battlefield". If they don't have Miranda rights then they do not have any other rights under our (AMERICAN) legal system. The Pandoras box that is our legal system should NOT be opened for the detainees. Military tribunals NOT on American soil should be ALL they get......before they are executed

my 2 cents
The bottom line is that these people have to be kept incarcerated as long as possible by whatever means.

Lon
As I thought, you talked all around the question. Would YOU personally take responsibility and indeed move some into your own neighborhood or home if they were released here????? Someone would have to be responsible. Are you firm enough in your beliefs to be that someone?

Who says...
that SCOTUS needs to give its approval to the Commander in Chief as to how to conduct a war?
How arrogant of Kennedy to think that he must give approval to everything that goes on in conjunction with operating the USA.
It has been said time and time again that there are three separate and equal branches of federal government, except that one of those branches appears to think it is more equal than the other two combined.

Right Makes Might
As noted already, I am not sure what you mean the first batch being released. Most of the people who have been sent to Guantanamo have been released. The supposed "worst of the worst" have not turned out to be actually the worst of the worst.

And if any inmates actually were released on the technicality that we lack any evidence they are guilty of anything, they still would presumably be returned to their country of origin. Since I am an American, that means they would not be returned to my neighborhood. Does that apply differently in your case?

Bobby
I am puzzled as to why you think we would release everyone from Gitmo? Do you think that we have no evidence that any of them were involved in terrorism? My impression is that that is not true. At least some of the people at Gitmo are actually terrorists, and Habeas Corpus hearings would not do anything to get them released. If you think otherwise you have even less faith in our government policies than I do.

Obviously it is a tricky thing to release people whose only contact with our government is mistreatment into our society, but it is doubtful that any of the Gitmo detainees would be released here.

There is one group that might I suppose. There are a few Xiguers who were in Afghanistan to get training to fight the Chinese who hold their territory under communist control, like Afghanistan under the Russians. It was quickly established that they were not guilty of any crimes against the US, but they have been held because of a lack of any country that is willing to anger the Chinese by taking them in. I could see them being admitted to the US out of a lack of choice. (And of course if not for the wrongful internment thing they probably would have made good immigrants and allies).

But otherwise there does not seem to be any reason to do what you seem to wrongly thing this decision requires us to do. But in the case of the Uighers I would take responsiblity for allowing them into the country if I was in a position to do so. I would also take responsible for the releasing to their home countries people who we do not have evidence have ever committed crimes against us deserving of confinement.

looneydogg
I for one would want him executed on the spot and photos taken in a manner such that it would be impossible to be a mistake or fake. To keep him alive for a nanosecond would endanger the entire world that some American CRIMINAL lierties union (founded by a communist) lawyer would delay his execution and keep him alive to spew more islamic ignorance. If you wanted him kept alive, would you take him into your home and protect him. I can tell your head is spinning an "answer".

looney dogg
Would you accept these folks from Gitmo into your neighborhood. I doubt you even have the balls to respond

Well, Lon
When the first batch of these barbarians is turned loose by some demented Bush-hating (a redundancy, I know) jury, I certainly hope it’s in your neighborhood and not mine.

sandrob
A terrific blog on TH that truly believes liberalism is a mental disorder is done by GunnyG. He has an impressive resume and takes no prisoners. He can be found at noliberalspin.townhall.com

Check out his place. Lately, he has been busier than a two legged cat in a sand box and hasn't updated as much as he usually does, but check out his archives, you'll see the "fun" we have.

Release
Release them all in Mass.,New Hampshire or Vermont.

Let the senators who represent those states find them summer jobs. They can ride in their sailboats and visit their summer vacation spots.

They can have an adopt a terroist summer program and let them live with families. Perhaps their daughters will marry one.

The arrogant justice Kennedy thinks he is smarter than Jimmy Carter, the person who actually thinks he is the smartest person in the world.

Lon
It takes a simpleton to know one. Certianly you recognize simpleminded folks as those that think like you do. Or do you suffer from fantasies of being among the "enlightened few".
Sure...go ahead and release all of 'em. and make EVERY liberal and/or democrat responsable for ANY further killing or damage these current prisoners do. Do you have the BALLS lon to take responsability for your wishes coming true. Do ya libturd????
Lets see rather than answering the question, there will be some sort of misdirection response. You are not capable of answering THAT question.

bizarre
There is something bizarre about this serious of crimes pilloring the court for taking the constitution seriously in a time of endless undeclared war. It is the lack of concern with details like what Habeas Corpus actually involves.

Greenberg decries the people that we were "forced" to release who have supposedly returned to battle. But in what sense were we forced to release these people, certainly not by the courts which have been rather timid in this area.

It is true that most of the people brought to Gitmo were eventually released on the technicality of not actually being guilty of anything(or in some cases for being such minor insignificant players). And yes there might be a habit of people who are thrown into a prison on the other side of the world and tortured until their captors realized they didn't know enough to even make convincing lies, to join the fight against their captors on their release.

But a better tactic than holding innocent people for life because you are afraid you have turned them into guilty people would be to not torture in the first place. That has served us well in our previous wars.

But by what stretch of language does determining the constitutional protection of people fall under the commander in chief powers. It is inconceivable that the founders, who fought against tyranny, meant to make the President a dictator in times of war, even declared ones.

sandrob
Why does it matter if Bin Laden was presumed innocent for the purposes of trial? Do you think there is not enough evidence against him to get a conviction? This ruling only makes a difference with regard to people that we do not have evidence that they are actually terrorists. Bin laden has many very public confessions, so I don't think there is the problem there that you seem to imagine.

It is apparently not just you that thinks liberals have some kind of untreatable mental disorder. There appear to be a lot of other simpletons who agree with you.

Something to consider
I think Rush Limbaugh brings up a good question that should be put to Obama since he thinks this was a good ruling.
If we caught Bin Laden tomorrow, does this mean he would be presumed innocient?

Is it just me or does anyone else believe that liberals have some kind of untreatable mental disorder?
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