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Sunday, March 30, 2008
Paul Greenberg :: Townhall.com Columnist
False Memory: The Strange Case of H. Clinton
by Paul Greenberg
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It happens. Or rather it didn't happen. How many of us can remember an event, often full of emotional overtones, that didn't happen? It's a common enough experience to have a name: false memory.

Just how that false memory forms and is reinforced over the years can be left to the psychologists to explain in detail. Maybe first we exaggerate what happened, then elaborate the imagined memory with each retelling, especially to ourselves. And before we know it, we've fully incorporated the event into our dramatic life story. Our ever-absorbent psyches could put any ordinary screenplay to shame.

Maybe that's what happened with Hillary Clinton and her exciting tale about landing under sniper fire at Tuzla Air Base in Bosnia back in '96, and how she and her brave platoon "ran with our heads down" to take cover. Exciting stuff. She told the story, not for the first time, in a speech at George Washington University to back up her credentials as the kind of leader you'd want answering that red telephone at 3 a.m. (Every time the Clinton campaign ran that commercial, John McCain must have jumped another 10 points in the polls.)

It turns out that others on that now famous trip to Tuzla didn't remember it that way. Not at all. And the news footage shows Mrs. Clinton walking in stately fashion down the rear ramp of an Air Force C-17 with 16-year-old Chelsea at her side, their heads held high, to meet the reception committee on the tarmac. First Lady and First Daughter would be accompanied by comedian Sinbad and singer Sheryl Crowe. It all had the look of the usual ceremonial visit, including a photo of Mrs. Clinton kissing the cutest little girl, and the usual unidentified suits in the background. Not exactly heavy combat.

Or as Barack Obama would say in his understated way, it was just Hillary Clinton exaggerating her foreign policy experience. To lift a phrase from the immortal Gilbert of Gilbert-and-Sullivan comic-opera fame, Sen. Clinton was adding "merely corroborative detail, intended to give artistic verisimilitude to an otherwise bald and unconvincing narrative."

Hillary Clinton finally admitted, in a meeting with the editorial writers at the Philadelphia Daily News, that she'd "misspoke." Who says the lady has no sense of understatement?

Hey, we all make mistakes. Call it the Walter Mitty syndrome. For who isn't the daring hero of his own life story, or in this case the heroine of hers? We just hope hubby's tendency to prevaricate hasn't proved contagious. Remember all those churches in Hot Springs that were being set afire by the Ku Klux Klan when Bill Clinton was growing up there? And his tainted testimony under oath just about ended his administration prematurely. Remembering things that didn't happen, or denying things that did, can have serious consequences.

I'd be inclined to give the current Clinton running for president of the United States the benefit of the doubt, and assume it was just her memory playing tricks, except.

Except that Hillary Clinton's tall tales may be part of a pattern. Remember her elaborate account of how she'd learned the stock tables at her daddy's knee in suburban Chicago, and made that 10,000 percent profit on cattle futures thanks to her own expertise? It was all a lot of hooey on the hoof, but she told the tale with such star power that she won an award from TV Guide in 1994 for that year's "best performance in a drama Š or press conference," and deservedly so.

Her version of how she reaped a tidy little fortune through her industry, frugality and faith in the American Way made a nice counterpoint to her husband's habit of denouncing the 1980s as "a Gilded Age of greed and selfishness, of irresponsibility and excess, and of neglect." It also contrasted nicely with her own, earlier dismissal of the Reagan Years as being about "acquiring - acquiring wealth, power, privilege." Explaining her own acquisitions, she took a different, Horatio Alger tack:

"I was raised by a father who had me reading the stock tables when I was a little girl, and I started doing that with my daughter when she was a little girl. I don't think you'll ever find anything that my husband or I said that in any way condemns the importance of making good investments and saving, or that in any way undermines what is the heart and soul of the American economy, which is risk-taking and investing in the future."

Brava! Bravissima!

When she told her tall tale on television in the beautifully crafted performance that TV Guide rightly honored, she did it with a virtuosa's mastery of every nuance, displaying a range of emotions that would have made Bette Davis look one-dimensional. It wasn't just what she said that impressed but the stage setting, the costuming (the ladylike pinkish suit, the perfect hair), the delicate pose, just the right sight lines with the Lincoln portrait in the background, the tonal modulation that no American politician would master until eloquent young Barack Obama came alongŠ.

Talk about a tour de force, when her presentation was over, you had to keep from standing up and yelling not only Author! Author! but Designer! Designer! What a show that was. Not since Loretta Young and her twirling petticoats has innocence been so perfectly depicted.

Maybe too perfectly. Only when the magic began to wear off, which didn't take long for anybody who'd followed her career in low finance, did it occur that Hillary Clinton's superb memory was matched only by her superber forgettery, in this case about just who had arranged her profits in the futures market.

You'd think, just out of sheer gratitude, the lady (in question) might have thrown in a good word for Robert L. "Red" Bone, who knew how to play games with the market as well as anybody in the business. (He was once suspended from trading for three years, and his firm fined $250,000, for it.) But giving ol' Red any credit might have spoiled the effect.

Now it's landing under fire at Tuzla a la John Wayne. What an exciting life Miss Hillary lives, at least in her own mind. As if her real life saga weren't dramatic enough. Which may be the most puzzling thing about both Clintons' tendency to, uh, exaggerate. There's no reason to. It's almost as if it were a compulsion. And talk about the audacity of hope, they act as nobody's ever going to question their stories, or just google Hillary Clinton, Tuzla, 1996.

"What is truly amazing," a friend e-mails, "is that these Ivy League-educated, smart people don't seem to think anyone else has enough smarts to go back and check whether or not these statements are true. In this day and age of Google, where virtually anyone can check virtually anything, as well as more archives by news organizations, what is truly surprising here is their underestimation of other people's intelligence. Maybe this is a typical character flaw of those who feel like they are smarter than everyone else."

Maybe, or maybe the Clintons' melodramatic flair is just an overblown case of the human propensity to star in our own drama, complete with heroic if fictive details. Or maybe it has to do with being a politician and having to do a little self-promotion every election. Call it an occupational hazard.

The Clinton Syndrome is scarcely limited to the Clintons - or to Ivy Leaguers or smart people. Maybe false memory isn't part of just the Clinton condition but the human condition. And we can all learn something from seeing it in deceptive action. This latest episode should say something cautionary about our own erring selves - especially to us more dramatic types, the sort of misfits drawn to journalism and other forms of storytelling.

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Or maybe
just maybe, Hillary and Bill have told so many lies that neither of them really knows what the truth is.

Just plain liars
Pundits and commentators, who have observed the Clintons for years, continue to give them the benefit of the doubt about their blatant dishonesty.

The Tuzla landing - she just mis-remembered after embellishing her story a few times ? Come on !

Similarly - Hillary's tears - spontaneous ? Does ANYONE REALLY BELIEVE that act was not focus-grouped and poll-tested in advance ?

The list goes on - remembering playing girls' Soccer when there wasn't even a girls'-soccer team at her school, being named after Sir Edmund Hillary who didn't gain notoriety until 4 years after she was born, not having any clue about what Bill was up to in the wee hours in the White House, having no idea where those Rose Law firm billing records came from, having no involvement in the firing and smearing of the White House travel staff, no idea who hired former bouncer Craig Livingstone to dig through the FBI files of her political opponents, and so on, a neverending stream of falsehoods...

Americans are the greatest, most forgiving, and, most naieve people in the world. We want so much to believe in the basic goodnes of others, and we are quick to forgive just about anyone who expresses remorse.

But, we have to come to terms with the facts about the Clintons. These poeple are just plain rotten, and unredeemable.


The Creator's Greatest Gift.
As best we can observe, the human specie is the only life form with the ability to lie -- excepting the fient of the fox and the colors of the chameleon.

Yes, indeedy, lying might be the attribute that has allowed humans to dominate all, and survive best.

However, humans seem loathe to investigate this all-important ability. Only one "thinker," Sissela Bok, had the courage to title her research, "Lying." A more descriptive title of this work would be, "Excuses for Lying."
It is on the recommended reading list at Harvard's John F. Kennedy School of Government.

Humans are fascinating.

Here is a compliment for you,Hillary...
..."You're a liar,but I'll say this for you:You're a bad liar."

Think about it.

I say, those sound like fighting words
I say, I say, Sir, did you just say Hillary has a false sense of reality. Hillary not only imagined those things, which could be interpreted as false memory, but she came out and repeated them as fact, as part of her history as Hillary Clinton. As a gentleman and I'm sure you are Sir, you coming pretty close to chosing your weapon and talking those 10 paces. This might not be Lousiana Sir, but Hillary does have her honor to uphold. Hillary could have come out and said, the only reason her FALSE MEMORY is looked upon as a lie, is because those who call it a lie are Obama supporters. You see Sir, not only did Hillary not stoop to that level, but she did claim she misspoke, which she hadn't done in years, and is willing to be looked upon as being "human". So you see Sir, there is a good that has come out of all of this. Hillary has comfirmed, she is "human".

The Usual Suspects
Isn't it the sociopath who lies when he is certain to be caught? Anyone with an IQ above that of a turnip knows that the U.S. military and the Secret Service would never allow the first lady and her daughter into a dangerous war situation, thus the story was suspect from the beginning. Speaking of those who cannot tell the truth, however... How long did the news media have this footage and this knowledge before it was aired? It seems to me like others were complicit in promoting this fairy tale. Of course, media has covered for the Clintons for years.

Maverick
Greenberg's last article looked like he accepted the Obama claim that he did not buy into Wright's Liberation Theology.

Plainly speaking Greenberg is a Obama apologist.

By the way, Obama said on the View that Wright has apologized for his God Damn America, etc. I have not seen anything written no have I seen a video of Wright apologizing.

Obama said he did not hear any of those controversial sermons. When Ms. Hasselback reminded him they were all on video he said he did not own all of the Wright videos.

Same ole BS from Barack Hussein Obama.


Hillary is a textbook case for .........
sociopathic personality - an antisocial person who seems unable or unwilling to live within established social and moral frameworks and who tends to pursue self-determined goals regardless of the consequences to self or others.

Clinton thinks she is entitled
to be the first female president and thinks the rest of us are so stupid as to believe anything she says because so many bought into bubba's BS.

She is IMO a bigger liar than he is and totally un-qualified to be POTUS,therefore she embellishes every little thing she has done in order to establish some bona-fides for this vision she has in her mind.
Anyone who lies with such ease cannot be trusted, especially with this country's security and if she actually believes what she says, she is delusional...like her saying she is equally qualified to be CinC as Mccain....THAT is a joke, clinton couldn't lead me to the latrine.

The clintons hate the military, remember the story about their kid who when a Navy Captain held a door for her remarked ' we don't like uniforms around here?

If true, that apple didn't fall too far from the tree.

The other clown is no better, he might not have heard wright's comments over 20 years, yeah right, but his wife sure did and told me all I want to hear about their great love of country, he won't even wear the flag, has no understanding or appreciation of the sacrifices of others that made this the greatest country on earth.

The dems must have the greatest buyers remorse in history with these two fools, they are fighting over the last deck chair on the Titanic, outdoing themselves on who can surrender first, who can out tax us the most and who will ruin the country with socialism the quickest.

I will give her one thing, she will preside over the demise of the dem party and for that we can all be eternally grateful.


The older I get
the faster I was.

That is a commonly seen tee shirt in the racing community, and my own Daddy is proof positive of the truth thereof -- a dirt-track stock-car Saturday Night Oval type guy for his younger years, now in his late 80s you listen to him and realize in fact he was Juan Manuel Fangio.

Nobody considers this lying. This is storytelling. Or, as his family puts it (they are all storytellers), leaving a story in a better condition than it was when you found it.

The problem would come into it if Daddy tried to use his stories as a c.v. to get a drive with a Formula One team at the age of 40, just like Fangio did.

I have a sister and numerous friends who *re-invented* their backgrounds when they edged their way into crowds where they did not feel their real home life, family members and background would be accepted. In many cases, those where the family does not in fact call them on the stories, the storytellers become so comfortable with the story that they are personally shocked to find out that what they are telling is false. (In my sisters case, she is slowly getting over it now that she has divested herself of those friends.)

Hillary clearly belongs to the storyteller class, but in todays Video and Google Mad World, its harder to sustain the fantasy. She and Obama both ought to get the message sooner rather later.

Arrogance
Power corrupts. Those who actively seek it, to the point of pyschotic fanaticism, are corrupted the quickest. They are corrupted so completely they do not realize what they have become. They have told so many lies, broken so many pledges, acted dishonorably so many times, and not been punished, but rewarded with attaining their goal. And so arrogance leads to an attitude of entitlement, of being impervious to the scrutiny and judgement of those they consider inferior and inconsequential. And so we have Randy Cunningham, Eliot Spitzer, the Clintons, the long list of people with power and wealth who act incredibly foolishly, risking all for some totally trivial gain. And voters fall all over themselves to select these flawed people as leaders? We have no black men in America better than Obama, no women better than Hillary, no war heroes better than McCain? Character counts, and these people do not have it.

And Greenberg
This negative piece on Hillary and your previous puff piece on Obama indicates you have decided who you support for president. OK. Just don't be sly about it, or pretend you are being "fair and balanced" to use a favorite phrase.

Juan Manuel Fangio
Thank you TH, i would never have known his middle name without you. The Argentine flash. I remember once he was so far ahead of the field, when his car broke down he won pushing it across the finish line, and he was no spring chicken at the time. Or do i really remember? It was so long ago, and i don't google.

Who was it?

Who was it that said man is the only creature that blushes or needs to?

Hillary should be bright red by ow.

Hillary


The Walter Mitty of American politics.

Packrat...
... Mark Twain.

I Know This-What's His Face?
Another fine column Mr. Greenberg, If you remember, Monica Lewinsky's boyfriend ahhhh...what's his face? ahhhh....the unofficial first Black President..ahhh....he fondled a secretary.....ahhhh....he said "I did not have sex with that woman, technically....ahhh...he was involved in Whitewater with her....ahhh...just recently he was seen making eyes at Sheryl Crow, then he shook her hand and smelled...ahhh....he was recently observed chatting up a couple of Motel 6 maids in uniform with garter belts and everything.....he plays sexaphone, I mean saxaphone......his name begins with a B.

HILLARY REMEBERS VERY WELL,FOLKS!
She remembers losing her records,supporting the murdering terrorists release, calling black people NIGGERS when she got mad at them in Ark.
and calling jews..F. jews and on and on and on
and lied about her daughter cheesy-uh being very close to 9/11,etc.,etc. And so far has got away with it...! That she remembers well!
It's like MONA CHARIN(SP) said the clintons are not the problem as much as we the american people are the problem..to let them get away with all the garbage!

elvis

What's new?
The Clinton's have made a profession out of lying. They've also made a profession out of thinking they were above the law - and in that case have proved it because for all of their law breaking they have really never been taken to task! Bill was impeached - but not thrown out of office for lying. There are so many lies and so much corruption surrounding the Clintons that barely comes to light because they have enjoyed media coverup. It is difficult to understand why anyone with an ounce of common sense would vote for Hillary knowing they would be lied to and the White House would once again be trashed.

I wonder why
you people were so understanding when Romney talked about watching his father march with Dr. King.

Omigosh, it couldn't be that what is OK for conservatives is wrong for liberals, could it?

Of course not! No hypocrcy here!

BUBBA & SAVAGE

.....There is no doubt about it! ...Greenberg has become the official Obama shill on TH ...

.....The only discernible difference between Hillary and Obama is that Obama is more affable and a far superior liar ...you still get screwed but with Obama you get a kiss and he blows in your ear .....COLOSSUS

use real words
The Clintons are unapoligetic liars

audio
We don't need a storyteller OR a pathological liar as our president! I care not how this is a "google" world. All I know is that it's a dangerous world and we need to deal in reality, not be entertained...

Woody from Iowa

AudiR10 at 8;02 A.M.
should be read with an open mind and serious introspection by both the purportedly "honest" and admittedly "dishonest" folk among us. The sanctimonious have relentlessly attacked Clinton as a bald-faced liar...and yet their super- righteous accusations are proof of their own dishonesty and selective memories.

AudiR10 writes of her fathers car racing memories "the older I get the faster I was"!!! The older Jim-Too gets the more understanding and tolerant I become about the foibles of human nature. I scrupulously avoid making representations which [if relied upon by others] would injure other persons…but I have been known to embellish facts and to construct other events from “whole cloth“ [see the term at Answers.com for some interesting commentary].

In my seventy-one years I've listened to non-stop "war stories" [covering the entire spectrum of life] from friends and acquaintances which the "tellers" would admit were fabrications [or glossed-over realities] if they could admit their "error" without embarrassment or a lessening of their own sense of self-worth. Clinton may have indulged in fantasy...but those who damn her "false memory" live in a fantasy world or a state of denial of their own.

Jim-Too

Of course there was sniper fire...
Get real people. Of course there was sniper fire the day H. Clinton landed in Tuzla; what wasn't reported was that it was coming from our troops.

Needs to Be REPEATED
"That should have told Americans a lot about this women. She has been chauffeured around in taxpayer financed limousines all of her career because she's merely been a spouse, hanging on to her husband's notoriety. She's never made, produced, sold, manufactured, solved, cured, invented, or fixed anything. Yet, she's convinced half the country she's an accomplished leader with all sorts of experience.

She's been surrounded for years by minions and courtiers, whispering in her ear that the sun rises and sets because of her. No doubt this deluded woman by now believes her own lies. She could likely pass a lie detector test as she tells her story of dodging sniper fire."

THIS WOMAN IS A FRAUD. SHE'S BEEN CODDLED AND SUPPORTED BY GOVERNMENT ALL HER ADULT LIFE. CAN'T EVEN DRIVE A CAR???? WHY DO WORKING WOMEN EVEN THINK SHE CAN RELATE TO THEM. HILLRY IS A LIAR AFND A FRAUD!!!!!

Jim
I can't believe you, man. You are equating inconsequential tall tales from Joe Sixpack, lies told for petty self-agrandizement at worst, with lies told by a presidential candidate to advance her campaign. A person who will lie to become president will lie and steal in office, as has been proved over and over. No wonder our leaders are corrupt. They are elected by voters who know what they want and deserve to get it, good and hard.

Speaking of delusion....
JD's Handsome Son is on to something when he writes about Hillary Clinton: "This is what you get when someone who is fundamentally power mad and corrupt is completely removed from the real world."
I
Truth is the Daddy of Delusion is a U.S. President in battle gear walking on the deck of a Navy ship, pretending to be a military leader, obscuring the fact he neglected to serve his country in Vietnam when he had the opportunity.

And on the subject of delusion, who can forget the vision of our President standing in front of a "Mission Accomplished" sign just weeks after taking the nation to war in Iraq and this same President FIVE YEARS LATER urging us to retain faith in his unaccomplished mission which has to date cost the lives of more than 4,000 of our brave military and which continues to sap the energy and resources of our nation.

Town Hall columnist Rich Galen states that Hillary Clinton's "imagined attack in Bosnia is the stuff Republican dreams are made of." If so, George W. Bush's delusions surely are the stuff national nightmares are made of.


Best line...
"best performance in a drama or press conference" cracks me up.

Lighten Up!
My ex-spouse would exalt in Clinton's “memory lapse”. When she was ten or so her Mom took her shopping. A clerk offered an expensive scarf and Mom [uttering the unforgivable “little white lie“] suggested she already had one “at home“. My spouse vehemently protested that she DID NOT have one “at home“! Mom and the clerk were embarrassed…but my spouse’s insistence upon unswerving honesty was vindicated.

My spouse had no imagination…and was deathly boring. We’d play a little game on long driving trips. I’d suggest that she “talk to me” and she’d respond that she had nothing to NEW to discuss. I’d prod her to “make something up” and she’d indignantly protest that “I don’t lie!

I learned during the divorce proceedings that serious lying was permissible in more serious matters. Clinton's lapse was a faulty but inconsequential recollection of an inconsequential event. I think we should “move on” to something of consequence.

Jim-Too

That Politicians Lie is not the Problem
The willingness to believe the lie is at root of what ails society. Believing these little lies is nothing compared to the lie that is big government. We are willing believe we are better off when government involves itself in all that we do. When society is damaged by this involvement we then believe the government needs to 'do' something.

We believe these lies because we are weak and foolish and we think we can escape paying for our weakness.

We are stupid and we deserve what is going to happen to us.

Disturbing
What is disturbing is the moral relativism running rampant on this thread.

What is even more disturbing is the Clintons lie when it isn't necessary.

nmi's personal delusions...
Don’t let facts get in the way of your personal delusions.

1. The President wore a military flight suit (he was flying a plane) on the deck of the USS Abraham Lincoln; not “battle gear.” As CIC, and an ex-military pilot, he’s earned the right to ware that suit.

2. President Bush served in the military during the Vietnam (can’t say the same for BHO or HRC). Lots of soldiers served in the military during the Vietnam War and never set foot in that country. Were they somehow less patriotic for not being sent to Vietnam?

3. The commander of that ship put up the “mission accomplished” sign, after the Lincoln’s tour in Iraq was completed, not President Bush. And the troops on that ship had, indeed, accomplished their mission.

4. President Bush told the American people that this would be a long struggle (some may have missed the speech). It took 25 years before the war being waged against America (by radical, militant Islam) finally became a reality for us (on 9/11).

Yet, we’re supposed to believe that this enemy will stop making war on us if we leave Iraq. If the mission the Left wishes to accomplish is defeat, then, they’re right, we should leave Iraq as quickly as possible—because who wants to be the last soldier killed in a conflict where your country has given up. Just ask the family of Kelton Rena Turner, an 18-year old Marine, who was killed in action on May 15, 1975, two weeks after the evacuation of Saigon. He was the last American soldier killed as we retreated from Vietnam.

Of course, Vietnam was the first defeat the American Left secured for our country—now they want Iraq to be our second defeat.

And, I love it when liberals and leftists pretend to have empathy for our soldiers; bemoaning the fact that 4,000 “brave” Americans have (now) died in the struggle against Militant Islam. They shed phony, crocodile tears for the pain, suffering, and sacrifice of people they wouldn’t give the time of day to in real life.


Savage & JD"s H.S.
You are both spot on in regards to Ms. Clinton.What confounds me is how people can vote for cretins like these.What happened to sending our best and most trustworthy to D.C. to do uor bidding.I truly believe the entire political process is inherently flawed.The campaign to become POTUS has been going on for about a year now and millions of dollars have been spent.What do we the citizens have to show for it ? A pathological liar , an America hating Black Supremecist and a 72 year old maverick RINO.Elitists all.It's truly disgusting if this is the best we can do!

Sawdust and Maverick
Sawdust has it right. Maverick, your are not even close to Louisiana, but you might have been run over by a riverboat in Joplin, Missouri. The word "fighting" does not apply to either Clinton ecept for Money, Glory, and Perverted Sex. They both run in the face of danger with their little carpet bags in tow. I'm researching the volume, magnitude, or force of the word "Misspoke". Could we say that the Enron excutives "misspoke"? Or, does it carry the magnitude that Charles Manson "misspoke"? Can we apply it to the famous saying credited to Presient George Washington when he said "I can not (misspeak), I did cut the cherry tree down" or words to that effect?

Debishop
Absolutely right on with your comments. Yes, the military never lost a battle in Viet Nam but the war was canceled in congress. That cost the people of Southeast Asia millions of lives. That is what they apparently intend to do to the Iraqis if the Dems gain the Presidency. My #2 son was a turret mechanic in Hawaii. My son-in-law was a Capt. at Schofield Barracks. #3 son was a track mechanic on the Russian border through the long harsh winters. They went where they were told to go. So did President Bush. I feel very sorry for the people who don't serve in the military as it makes honorable dedicated humans of them. #2 son stayed in the National Guard and as a 52 yr. old grandfather served 18 months with his unit--a year in Kurkut. His son went into Iraq with the 1st Marines all the way to Tikrit and back. He told me "It is a beautiful, beautiful country". My nephew stayed in Iraq for his furlough to tour the country because he said he loved it. Hillary hates the military. What does that tell us about her????

eor,,,
I was drafted in 1969 and would have been very happy to have been ordered to serve my time in Germany...I got to go to Vietnam, instead. I served with some very brave guys and it was an experience I'll never forget -- just as I'll never forget how the Liberals/Leftists treated us when we returned from that particular hell-hole. It was shameful then, and it's just as shameful now.

You must be very proud of your son's and grandson's. Tell them I said 'thanks' for their service.

Savage99
It was not Fangio who (attempted to) push his car across the finish line; Nigel Mansell and Alain Prost both unsuccssfully tried this ploy, which would have disqualified them had they succeeded. Fangio who began his racing career at 40 was too old to have attempted this feat.

As for my comments on the subject, you will note that I said there is nothing wrong with storytelling PROVIDED that you do not attempt to use your version of reality as proof that you have experience that qualifies you for a top position of some kind. Had my Daddy applied to Ferrari at age 40 claiming that his story of his racing career was in fact true, I doubt very much if it would have stood up to a most cursory inspection. Ditto Mrs. Clinton and her various stories. The alarming thing about her is not that she believes them herself, but that she attempts to make us believe they are true and therefore items on her c.v. instead of chapters in a novel titled *If Only*.

One lie among many

" I did not have sex with that woman"



Southern saying that applies


Hillary would climb a tree to lie, instad of standing on the ground to tell th truth.

Woody wrote
"We don't need a storyteller OR a pathological liar as our president! I"

Where were you when Bush was elected? Twice?

How did you feel about liars and storytellers then?

cr495 said
"What confounds me is how people can vote for cretins like these."

I asked the same question during the last two elections, I'm still waiting for an answer.

someone said
That hillary will destroy the DEMO PARTY!!
That's my gal...my sweetie..keep it up sweetheart if there's anything I can do to help you -itch, just let me know!

elvis

FOR DEBISHOP RE IRAQ
Re what Pres. Bush told the American people, I refer you to Pres. Bush's speech of Oct. 7, 2002 ("President Bush Outlines the Iraqi Threat"):

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/10/20021007-8. html

As you can see, in selling War in Iraq, Pres. Bush promised "We will plan carefully; we will act with the full power of the United States military..."

If you feel Pres. Bush lived up to both promises, how do you explain the fact that four years after taking the nation to war with the most prodigious military on earth, Mr. Bush found it necessary to order a "surge" to avoid "the consequences of defeat"?

It's not the "Left" that four years into the war kept talking about defeat, it was our Commander-in-Chief.

As long as two years ago the late Town Hall columnist and Conservative Leader William F. Buckley, Jr. - certainly no Leftist - called the Iraq War "Pres. Bush's failure."


Amazement 101
Hillary and Bill always got to tell whoppers and the major media simply ignored it. She simply isn't prepared for someone to actually call her on it. It's like daddy's little princess on her first job where she is actually expected to show up and work. Who, ME? Michelle Obama had a similar moment when she spouted the same hateful racist crap for which she has always been awarded by Ph.D's and Board Positions by fawning Ivy covered Crackers and found out that working people in the heartland didn't lay down screaming beat me beat me Mea Culpa......

clutch defeat from the jaws of victory
debishop writes: Of course, Vietnam was the first defeat the American Left secured for our country—now they want Iraq to be our second defeat.
You have hit the nail on the head deb.
I arrived in nam 1-69, Phu Bai - Hue.
That year there were some attacks going on, but even 2nd timers noted that the country was safer than 1 year earlier. That was because of the 1968 tet offensive. The cong and nva tried a different tactic. A guerilla force and some allies came out of the tunnels and tried to take and hold cities in the south. These cities were not defended because no one would have thought that they would be an occupational target. The u.s. military suffered heavy casualties esp. in Hue. In the u.s. press, this was seen as a bad blow to the u.s. and a defeat even though 4-6 times our casualties were inflicted on the enemy.
We had heavy casualties on d-day, but it was still a victory.
well, general giap was destined for reeducation camp or the bullet after that defeat. The north was about to throw in the towel aka n korea, but suddenly hundreds of thousands of volunteers marched for the commies. IN Washington D.C.
Leftie peacefaggots and the media helped turn victory into defeat. ah.
Thanks kerry, clinton, rodham, and traitors.
adios,
Harvey
Lancaster, Mexifornia
dial 1 for english
p.s. I remember every time i was shot at, mortarred, rocketed, fragged by the enemy.

JD and others...
Your description of Hillary as being inept and removed from the real world is spot on. Our real problem is that the description applies to virtually all Washington politicians. These people are mostly lawyers who have never even practiced law. They are career party hacks who could not dig a ditch or drive a nail. Yet they have the arrogance to impose more and more rules and restrictions on us in every facet of our lives from education to civil rights to healthcare.

The two parties are indistinguishable. Both groups are in it for the power and the money and they could care less about the American people. At election time they stage a farcical drama for the voters, most of whom can`t read or spell, much less think critically.

Ben Franklin said, "We have given you a republic. See if you can keep it." Sorry Ben. Our republic is only a memory and the Constitution is a relic.

HEYHARVEY

.....The military won the war in Vietnam but our politicians in Washington gave it away led by Ted the Swimmer Kennedy ...

.....Americans do not have patience for long drawn out wars and I guess we still haven't learned our lesson ...I was part of MAAG at Tan Son Nhut and had access to classified material ...Kennedy was warned by the Generals not to get involved in a land war in Southeast Asia unless he was willing to bomb Hanoi back to the Stone Age ...Kennedy had no intention of doing that but his assassination put the ball in LBJ's court ...LBJ was scared sh*tless of the Russians and the Chinese so played chicken with our troops as pawns until Hue when "Commie Kronkite" called for peace with honor (Liberal code for surrender) and LBJ put his tail between his legs and ran home to his ranch in Texas ...

.....And now we are repeating the same mistakes we made in the Sixties ...I thought we were supposed to learn from history's mistakes? .....COLOSSUS

savage99
Then there was Stirling Moss, consistently driving for Rob Walker in last years's equipment, and beating the likes of Fangio, Hawthorn, Behra, and other greats.

The Moss man! He was my hero.

deathstar
Why is it that Bush "lies" but Hillary "misspeaks?"

To salty
"Politicians are...career party hacks who could not dig a ditch or drive a nail." Except that digging a ditch and driving a nail are not skills necessary for a politician, are they?

There is a poem by Robert Frost in which two professional loggers stand watching a homeowner chopping his own wood. They also stand judging him, because "Except for the way a man handles an axe,/ They had no way of knowing a fool". Perhaps in your own line of work you can judge a man's professional competence by the way he digs a ditch or drives a nail, but if that man happens to be a heart surgeon or a silversmith or a printing technician or a newspaper editor or a pharmacist or an attorney or a librarian or a grocer or house painter or a dancer, what YOU know (digging and hammering) is irrelevant to what HE knows. I keep reading on townhall the notion that the only lines of employment that are relevant to reality are running a small business working in the construction trades. I also see the opinion that a person who works with his mind more than with his body doesn't really work. Think about this. Does it even make sense?

Bob
hilliary doesn't even tell the truth about her lies. OOOps! Misspeaks!!

Hillary needs sympathy
Hillary is handicapped by a type of serious mental disorder called a "psychosis" commonly referred to as Liberalism in which a person cannot tell what is real from what is imagined. The main feature of this disorder is the presence of delusions, which are unshakable beliefs in something untrue.

Those who are afflicted with Liberalism have problems with recollections of their mis-deeds and total recall with mis-deeds of opposers.

Truth relativism increases proportionately when facts are not congruent with their statements.

Rationalizations increase dramatically when behaviour is spotlighted.

Ambguity becomes straightforward answers.

Opinons become knowledge and facts become appraisels formed in the mind.

Dysfunctional behaviour is normal and normal behaviour is dysfunctional.

Deviate behaviour is normal and normal behaviour is unenlightened.

Empathy for criminals proportionately increases while sympathy for the criminals victim decreases.

Sins of the guilty should be paid for by the innocent (taxes).

Responsiblity of ones actions and decisions are clearly the fault of others.

"Please relax," says Hillary, like a stewardess in an airliner with only one wing and two engines, one of which is on fire, "you are perfectly safe in my hands."

Lilly
These politicians do not work with their minds. They pay staff to research, write, and even think for them.


To eor
Would you rather have your sons and grandsons become soldiers than doctors, teachers, pharmacists, nurses, psychologists, attorneys, accountants, or librarians? Carpenters, landscaping specialists, bricklayers, house painters, plumbers, or electricians?

My young neighbor served in Iraq as a Marine. He did one tour. Then he came home, went back to school, and got his MBA. This spring he takes his CPA exam. Do you think it would have been more honorable of him to stay in Iraq doing consecutive tours?

Hillary and experience
Hillary is an experienced obfuscator,
Hillary is an experienced prevaricator,
Hillary is experienced at ambiguity,
Hillary is experienced at coverups,
Hillary is experienced at making up facts,
Hillary is experienced at misrepresentation,
Hillary is experienced at equivocation,
Hillary is experienced with moral equivalency,
Hillary is experienced at rationalization,
Hillary is experienced with delusions,
Hillary is experienced with egocentrism.

Who said Hillary is not experienced?

JD"S
Come on fella, please tell us how you REALLY feel. But make sure it's taped and put on Youtube. :-D

jd sons...baseball doc
geez, guy that is on the lighter side? ha ha ha
Iam an old geezer and definitely a HAWK! BUT YOU MAKE ME LOOK LIKE TIMID CANARY....Iam don Knotts compared to you! But I love it!
I (am a mitt guy)..he repeatedly said..send em back, no benefits,etc! If you were his homeland security chief..you'd make 'em take off their shoes and walk backwards! Robt. rabid..must love you! ha ha ha
elvis

baseball doc
Forgot you..on the last blog!
Wasn't it GENERAL DOUGLAS MAC ARTHUR on his sick bed that warned kennedy about v. nam!?
elvis

JD's Handsome Son
Hey,you got it backwards.Spay him(?) and castrate her(?).

lilly wrote:
"Except that digging a ditch and driving a nail are not skills necessary for a politician, are they?"

The point, which you missed, was that in America, there is not supposed to be a political class. A political class, by definition, is out of touch with the citizenry. Kings, queens, and monarchs are the political class our ancestors fought in the 1700s to gain our freedoms.

Rather than a political class, our system was designed to allow normal, working, productive members of society, who know what it is to live day to day in this country, to be elected to office make, execute, and adjudicate laws under which we all will live. To that end, it behooves elected officials to know what it is to hammer a nail, meet a payroll, etc.

Hillary and Obama have never pulled their weight in society, as far as I can tell, except perhaps in political equivalent of "no-show" jobs for resume enhancement. Neither has ever done or accomplished anything of consequence and yet both feel they are qualified to lead the most influential nation on the planet.

At least McCain has served his country militarily. I'm on fan of his, but I respect his service. I hope he comes to his senses and upholds the Constitution. McCain-Feingold is an abomination on the level of HillaryCare, frankly. Regardless, I'll vote for him over either of the elitest monarch-wannabe candidates you Dems are fighting over.

Senator Clinton's "coming undr fire" com
As one who has been fired at, always by people with a certainh lack of class, I will state that you never forget it. Not the where or the when or the size.

Lilly...
For brevity, I omitted "or manage a WalMart store" from the line you cited. The point (as you very well know) being that the beltway crowd have virtually no practical experience at anything other than sucking up and getting elected. The occupations you mentioned, with the exception of attorney, are fine and honorable experience for being a legislator or public official. Problem is...few of our officials have these experiences, yet they have the arrogance to impose, dictate, tax, spend, and control every facet of the lives of working Americans.

And of course mental work is as legitimate as physical labor. However, a person who has practical hands-on experience combined with mental abilities is most valuable of all. There is something about physical labor that instructs more than any book or lecture.

And for the record, I`ve never been paid to drive a nail or dig a ditch, but I can do those things and am proud of it.

salty
It would also help,if some of these people had at some point in their lives had a little less than what they needed. That way they would know how the other half lives.

Many people work and live paycheck to paycheck,with never enough to live comfortably.They make too much money to qualify for help (most wouldn't ask,anyway),but not enough to meet their obligations,though they live quite frugally.

It is easy for congress to redistribute other peoples money,if they have always had plenty,themselves.Pity the poor family who hasn't.


Murph
Re: Just Plain Liars

"We want so much to believe in the basic goodness of others."

Sure, we'd like to, but only the naive among us can blindly enjoy that comfort.

IMO, Hillary and Bill, for two, clearly know they are liars, but their sickening ambitions force them to use any means possible to get what they want...what they deceptively believe should be theirs.

Hillary's counting on the votes from Democrats...the ones who want the gov't to "take care of them", the bleeding hearts who think we should, the anti-Americans whose goal is to turn the U.S. into a socialist country and those who are simply so ignorant that they can't see the truth which is right in front of their noses.

I can't imagine
a mother would even consider taking her child into a war zone where they may come under sniper fire. Also, a president's wife would not even be allowed in such danger zones even if she protested.

slip of the pen
Mr. Greenberg writes: "And his tainted testimony under oath just about ended his administration prematurely."

Wrong word. Had the Senate convicted Clinton, his administration would have ended belatedly.

my 2 cents
"what is truly surprising here is their underestimation of other people's intelligence. Maybe this is a typical character flaw of those who feel like they are smarter than everyone else."

Maybe?

The Real Deception...Part 1
Hillary Clinton does not believe that she is smarter than all of the rest of us. She knows it. Or at least she knows that she is smarter than enough of the rest of us that her tactics stand a good chance of working. Bill taught her that. I believe that had Bill Clinton been born a decade or two earlier in Germany he would have been just as enthusiastic a member of the Hitler Youth movement as he was of the 1960’s anti-war movement. Because, in both cases, that is where the opportunity lay. It was never about political ideology with Bill; it was always about Bill with Bill. Most believe, and history may well record, that Bill really pulled one over on the Republicans. Bill knows that he pulled one over on the Democrats

Hillary differs only in that somewhere beneath the self-aggrandizement exists some spark of the true believer. That only makes her even more dangerous than Bill. Nor are these two alone in such deception. They are joined by most, approaching all, of our politicians today, across the whole of the political spectrum.

The Real Deception...Part 2
I am a Conservative, and I believe very strongly in the tenets of Conservatism. I am happy to engage in anything from dialogue to argument with Liberals regarding those tenets and frequently do so in this forum. I think that is important.

But what really concern’s me today is not the differences in political ideology. It is the similarities in populism. Too many politicians delight in fostering and manipulating partisanship among the electorate as a means by which to keep us occupied while they pursue their own self-aggrandizing goals. We are like Red Sox and Yankees fans that couldn’t care less about how our teams play the game. Whether they win with the good hitting we thought they had, or good fielding with which they surprised us. We care only that they win so that we can bask in whatever reflected glory we think that affords us. Never mind that in the first instance we had nothing what so-ever to do with winning nor that in the second case the winning results in very little of what we voted to accomplish. We won and that is what it was all about, to us and to them.

Remember when
Bill and the Hill were just out of the WH and a small stink sprung up about their having taken furniture ouf of the place that they were not entitled to?

That was when a phrase was coined to describe them that still has not been matched:

They are immune to embarassment

Ive been searching and searching
on TH and I still can't find the place where grown-ups go to post.

Deathstar
Here's a site for you: http://www.lickHillarysass.com

"Deathstar"
By 'grownups', do you mean people who don't hide behind some evocative but meaningless moniker to spout derogatory messages lacking any substance or relevance to the article under discussion?

Ray
"do you mean people who don't hide behind some evocative but meaningless moniker to spout derogatory messages lacking any substance or relevance to the article under discussion?"

Yes, that is Darth Vader Jr's stock in trade...

Bob_C
Sir Stirling Moss and Sir Jack Brabham still race at Goodwood Festivals every year.

And I agree that Sir Stirling was a standup guy when he was young and all the ladies said so. I met a charming older woman (older than I am which is going some) who told us stories of how he used to love to tango with whatever young lady he could reach out and clutch, and what a charmer he was.

You may or may not have heard that David Leslie (BTCC) and Richard Lloyd (Audi Sport UK and the mastermind of the Bentley Team at Le Mans in 2003, among many other things) were killed in a plane crash in England yesterday afternoon. David Leslie was an acquaintance of mine, met when my second cousin was racing in the BTCC, and we used to tease him a lot about Watty (who was one of the announcers) shouting "Oh, there goes Leslie! He's gonna need a native guide to find his way back from that one!"

AZPhil
Yes, and, as per my previous post, of those upon whose mindless partisanship the Hillary's of this world so depend. "Ask not what I have said or done regarding this issue in the past, ask only what I now say and propose to do regarding it."

Ray...
Have had much the same thoughts. The primary, sometimes the only, qualification of most of these pols is their overwhelming ambition for power. They have no motivating philosophy other than "win at all costs". So much so that once elected, they don`t have much appetite for the actual job and begin preparing for the next level.

I don`t believe Hillary or Bill are socialist or liberal or anything else except as an expediency to power. If Hillary thought that lynching Mexicans as they cross the border was popular, she would show up with a box of new ropes. Funny, I don`t have the same idea about Obama...not sure why.

deathstar
If you find it so unbearable to search through posts by us "children", which is obviously what you consider conservatives who post to this site, then why don't you take your "business" to the Daily Chaos or HuffingtonPo or MoveOn.org? I'm sure the superior intellects, as you I'm sure would find them, who post over on these sites would welcome you with open arms and fall down and worship at your beknighted footstool. No one here at TownHall ASKED for your contribution to this site. You come to a conservative web site, you take what you get. To paraphrase Harry Truman, if you can't take the heat here, then get out of TownHall's kitchen.

Salty
Good, more need to follow our lead. It is all part of the Clinton "Where ya'll going, can Ah lead?" style of 'leadership'. I have this mental image of our political 'gods' looking down on us with big cigars and martini's and snickering and elbowing each other as we verbally beat the snot out of each other out here in the real world.

Ray (and Others)
Well, it feels good to speak our piece and to occasionally find someone who agrees, BUT...it doesn`t accomplish a damn thing. We used to have a political party that carried the banner. Some of them even cared about this country, but that`s all in the past.

The direction of events indicates that we are in for long term serious trouble. I`m old enough to probably miss it, but have believed for a while now that my sons will see a major upheaval in the US that will leave it a much worse place to live.

Standhisground
"If you find it so unbearable to search through posts by us "children", which is obviously what you consider conservatives who post to this site, then why don't you take your "business" to the Daily Chaos or HuffingtonPo or MoveOn.org? "

You don't get it. I dislike blogs on either side of political ideology that can't express an idea without resorting to name-calling, slogan, bumper-sticker pronouncements that pass for wisdom or obsessive hatred.
They do exist, but I doubt any of the TH posters would find them easy enough. that's not to say all conservatives, this morning a couple of very prominent conservatives posted, people who would never stoop to posting here.

Also, my favorite blog, the one where I really spend time, while having a liberal slant, does not obssess about conservatives, Republicans, but has an identity that is not based on trashing the other side - it actually dicusses news and ideas that are not insult, personality based.

It's for adults, I think most of you would find it dull and a little too challenging.

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com

I need to add
It is a blog that many of my conservative friends go to - Most of them, by the way did not even know about TH until I teased them about it, and those who dropped by were embarrassed for their own political compatriots.

I have many conservative friends, I have none who post here, or who would take the time.

Final thought, then I'm off to real life
TH is 99% republicans who only want to talk about Democrats. TPM is 99% Democrats who want to talk about Democratic ideas and news.

Big shock, if they started making puns with cons' names, hurling insults, drinking and posting, quoting the bible, bashing gays and people of color, their readers would be gone in about 12 minutes.
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