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Friday, January 11, 2008
Paul Greenberg :: Townhall.com Columnist
Too Good For This World: Waterboarding and Its Discontents
by Paul Greenberg
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Unlikely. On the contrary, CIA officials would doubtless be called on the carpet, and accused of not doing nearly enough to squeeze information out of the terrorists who had fallen into our hands.

But no major terrorist attack having occurred in this country since September 11, 2001, we’re all supposed to be terribly upset that those plotting to kill as many Americans as possible might have been denied all the rights, privileges and protections ordinarily accorded fully accredited, properly uniformed, legitimate prisoners of war.

We have become so used to blurring the distinction between legal and illegal combatants, between prisoners taken in conventional battle and cutthroats out to murder innocent civilians of all ages, that it’s almost assumed now that terrorists are entitled to be treated according to the Geneva Convention — even though it spells out certain requirements for claiming the rights of a prisoner of war, like being responsible to a sovereign government and fighting in uniform.

This debate over waterboarding is largely abstract now, since the CIA abandoned the practice a few years ago. Once it became public knowledge that waterboarding really isn’t designed to be fatal, but rather to convince the prisoner that it is, and that he’s about to be drowned unless he tells all, the tactic largely lost its usefulness. But before it did, the technique is said to have played a crucial role in extracting vital information from top al-Qaida operatives like Khalid Sheik Mohammed, who is now in custody at Guantanamo, thank goodness.

Though he refused to cooperate with American intelligence for months after his capture, it’s said that it took only a minute or so under water for KSM, as he’s known in the official records, to start talking. The intelligence he provided was instrumental in the capture and/or conviction of at least six major terrorist suspects and the prevention of major attacks on civilian targets in this country and abroad, including a scheme to send the Brooklyn Bridge crashing into the East River.

Knowing what we now know, would we really risk the lives of thousands of innocents rather than permit American operatives to use their most effective technique against a mass killer like Khalid Sheik Mohammed, who once bragged about directing the September 11th attacks? (And claimed to have personally beheaded Daniel Pearl, too.)

But the question in Congress has become whether those who conducted his successful interrogation should be punished and exposed. By all means, if the law has been broken, those who broke it in the course of effectively preventing another September 11th should be tried, convicted, and punished — and then given a medal. For the law is the law. But duty is duty. One does not cancel out the other.

Once the head of the CIA’s clandestine service at the time these tapes were destroyed is properly reamed out by a congressional investigating committee, or even put in jail, he will still have the satisfaction of duty done. And it would be an honor to shake his hand.

As for any politician who takes the high ethical ground, at least in his own opinion, and speaks glibly of going after those American agents who have used harsh tactics against terrorists, he should be asked: How many innocent lives would you be willing to risk in order to spare a Khalid Sheik Mohammed a minute of stark fear?

That’s an ethical question, too. For we are all responsible not only for what we do but for what we fail to do, and that includes failing to protect the innocent or our own intelligence agents.

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More treason from the enemy within...
More anti-American propaganda and treason from the enemy within…


The Sunday Times
1/13/08

Anti-war Soros funded Iraq study
Brendan Montague

http://tinyurl.com/2wzeej

A STUDY that claimed 650,000 people were killed as a result of the invasion of Iraq was partly funded by the antiwar billionaire George Soros.

Soros, 77, provided almost half the £50,000 cost of the research, which appeared in The Lancet, the medical journal. Its claim was 10 times higher than consensus estimates of the number of war dead.

The study, published in 2006, was hailed by antiwar campaigners as evidence of the scale of the disaster caused by the invasion, but Downing Street and President George Bush challenged its methodology.

New research published by The New England Journal of Medicine estimates that 151,000 people - less than a quarter of The Lancet estimate - have died since the invasion in 2003.

“The authors should have disclosed the [Soros] donation and for many people that would have been a disqualifying factor in terms of publishing the research,” said Michael Spagat, economics professor at Royal Holloway, University of London.

The Lancet study was commissioned by the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT) and led by Les Roberts, an associate professor and epidemiologist at Columbia University. He reportedly opposed the war from the outset.

His team surveyed 1,849 homes at 47 sites across Iraq, asking people about births, deaths and migration in their households.

Professor John Tirman of MIT said this weekend that $46,000 (£23,000) of the approximate £50,000 cost of the study had come from Soros’s Open Society Institute.

Roberts said this weekend: “In retrospect, it was probably unwise to have taken money that could have looked like it would result in a political slant. I am adamant this could not have affected the outcome of the research.”

The Lancet did not break any rules by failing to disclose Soros’s sponsorship.


stick to fact - Left: willful or stupid?


stick to the facts writes: “I am British and a famous quote and accepted truism (I believe said by the Home Secretary who sent the troops in to northern Ireland in the late 60s) was that "internment" was the best recruiting sergeant the IRA ever had. In other words, the abandonment of fundamental freedoms and rights and rule of law had the opposite effect in that it increased the likely amount of terrorism as those who were or felt oppressed were more inclined to express themselves through violence (and in fact it is well known that the IRA escalated actions to provoke reactions so that they could recruit more people and to undermine non-violent political opponents).”


I am American, and there is a saying for your viewpoint.

It’s called “fighting the last war”.



~~~



stick to the facts writes: “I have a very simple thesis - in general jaw-jaw is better than war-war. Promoting dialogue involves a minimal amount of trust to allow one to say what one wants and have a discussion or argument, etc. Adhering to common international rules can promote the likelihood of more people wishing to have that minimal amount of trust.”


Between you and me, jaw-jaw is better than war-war, so that strategy would work just fine.


Between us and the Islamists, that strategy is a suicide pact. While you are busy with your “jaw-jaw”, the enemy is “nodding knowingly and smiling benignly” while you unilaterally adhere to whatever it is you’re jawing about. All the while, the enemy is accelerating his efforts to achieve as much as possible before you figure out he’s cheating, and demand a whole new round of “jaw-jaw”.


This, in a nutshell, is what I believe the Left either willfully or ignorantly refuses to understand.


If true, then the Left is either a willing accomplice, or they are stupid.


I have spent a great deal of time in exchanges with Leftists, and while many of them are purple Kool-Aid drinkers, I do not believe they are “stupid”…

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