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Monday, October 22, 2007
Paul Greenberg :: Townhall.com Columnist
England Your England: Shocking Row in Parliament
by Paul Greenberg
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England swings like a pendulum do

Bobbies on bicycles, two by two

Westminster Abbey, the tower of Big Ben

The rosy red cheeks of the little children

—Roger Miller

There’ll always be an England, so they say. But you might doubt it after reading about the latest controversy in Parliament. To quote David Stringer’s AP dispatch from London: “British lawmakers have been granted the power to move to the head of the line at restaurants, rest rooms and elevators inside the Houses of Parliament, angering those assistants, researchers, janitors and other workers who must stand and wait.”

Shocking. But perhaps not because of the reasons Mr. Stringer emphasizes in his story, which paints this dust-up as being about Britain’s attachment to democratic equality, or maybe as just another labor dispute: “The workers warn that Parliament is in danger of appearing decidedly undemocratic in allowing the lawmakers, in British parlance, to ‘jump the queue.’ ”

But if there’s still an England, it’s not the undemocratic aspect of what we Americans call line-breaking that outrages our British cousins, but the break with tradition, with custom, with the unwritten laws of England, high among them: Thou shalt not jump the queue.

The AP’s correspondent may be getting warmer when he traces the cause of this difference to the British respect for time-honored ways rather than any allegiance to democracy: “The dispute strikes at the heart of a peculiarly British observance — the sanctity of waiting patiently in line for buses, trains, coffee stands, deli counters — anywhere there is a crowd.”

Compare that example of British reserve to the way New Yorkers almost come to blows over who’s going to get the next taxi on a rainy night. Or, for that matter, the way privileges are meted out in our own Congress. For a supposedly classless society, there are few places on Capitol Hill where the Honorable Members are not given precedence. American congressmen are assured of their own elevators, dining rooms, entrances and exits, and, of course, their own rest rooms in their own offices.

For all the fine rhetoric about democracy and equality in this country, few institutions are so hierarchical as the Congress of the United States. And yet in Britain’s legislative body, even with its separate House of Lords, bewigged officials and ceremonial swords, jumping the queue is simply not done. It’s not … cricket.

“It’s part of the culture here,” said a visiting Frenchman who was interviewed while waiting at a London bus stop. “Jumping a queue is just not very British.” Well, of course not, old chap. It goes without saying, and it is the unarticulated imperatives of a society that say most about it — in this case something good. Nothing need be said to justify it. No appeal to reason or egalitarian virtue, or the Rights of Man is necessary. Or even relevant.

English liberties rest not on some blinding insight or abstract code but, like the English common law, they’re a product of development over the ages. The result: Some things are simply not done. Bad form, you know.

George Orwell tried to explain — well, describe — such folkways in his little essay, “England Your England,” which was first published in February 1941, when no one with any realistic grasp of power in this world would have expected old England to survive the Blitz and the onslaught sure to follow. Orwell began his essay with typical English understatement, noting almost matter-of-factly: “As I write, highly civilized human beings are flying overhead, trying to kill me….” That wry observation led him to wondering why nations are different, and why the British are so different:

“Yes, there is something distinctive and recognizable in English civilization. It is a culture as individual as that of Spain. It is somehow bound up with solid breakfasts and gloomy Sundays, smoky towns and winding roads, green fields and red pillar-boxes. It has a flavor of its own. Moreover it is continuous, it stretches into the future and the past, there is something in it that persists, as in a living creature. What can the England of 1940 have in common with the England of 1840? But then, what have you in common with the child of five whose photograph your mother keeps on the mantelpiece? Nothing, except that you happen to be the same person.”

In a politically correct age, it may no longer be permissible even to wonder whether there’s still an England or any other national culture. Aren’t they all supposed to be absorbed by the new, faceless globalism? And yet national traits persist. They are palpable even if we sometimes attribute them to vague abstractions (Liberty! Equality! Fraternity!) rather than the everyday habits of a people.

It is continuity in the seemingly small things that over time creates the complex underpinning of any society. It explains why in England the law may be respected simply because it is the law, and in other countries laws will be widely ignored because it’s expected that only fools will follow the rules.

Edmund Burke understood, which is what made him suspicious of sudden, violent changes in the social order like the French Revolution, which was going to produce a whole new society, even a new man. The usual results of such utopian visions followed — first terror, then tyranny.

It isn’t an abstract allegiance to democracy that makes the British so British but custom — the accumulated layers of habit, constraint, manners and mores that form the British character in matters great and small, from standing alone against what seemed an unstoppable threat during the Battle of Britain, or at the approach of the Spanish Armada in another time under another queen named Elizabeth, to … simply not jumping the queue.

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Huh?
OK, I am old and probably dazed and confused.

Please let me know when England became a Democratic country instead of a constitutinal monarchy.

Also, I'd love to know who wants to be in the way of Mrs. Clinton or Mrs. Pelosi for the only empty stall in the ladies room.

Oh, Canada!
At one time I was able to get the Canadian Parliament sessions on cable.
These are people who take politics seriously!
Fist fights on the floor!I mean knock down drag out fights!

But then.. who among us would not fork over money for a pay-per-view of Harry Reid getting clocked in the schnozzola!

Old England
The habits of not breaking a "queue" in Britain is not really that old. I think it started during WWII, when to show their patience during waiting in the endless lines for food and other rationed goods. While the awful bombing went on during the night, the Londoners came struggling out of their houses the next day to face another day and showed their patriotism by patiently standing in queues.

Britain has lost whatever semblance they once had to the kind of bravery it had back in those days. Now they are members of the European Union, the kind of organization the Democrats want the U.S. to belong to, become part of the world organization, learn to get along with everyone, ignoring the terrorist threat. Sad. They could use another Churchill.

Huh? Indeed
And what parts of "democracy" and "constitutional monarchy" are in conflict?

Sweet Article
with nothing of import to say. This piece of fluff belongs in Women's Day or or The Ladies Home Circle.
"How can you have any pudding if you won't eat your meat!?!?!"

Democracy
The United Kingdom and The United States are not democracies. Democracies are mob rule.

jumping the queue
Damn, it's nice to comment on a THD article without having to read a bunch of left wing swill from the usual suspects. Comments usually start off from thoughtful, reasoned approaches; but become high-jacked by the America haters.
I hope "There always be an England" I hope the poor bastards can get their collective heads out of the sand and deal with their Islamofascist threat. But I don't know if they have the will to do what is necessary.
But of course we're going down the same road (not the queueing problem, the embrace of Islamic immigrants in this country). Our elected officials don't have the will to do what's necessary, either.
I don't have to work today, so I guess I'll spend some time polishing the chrome on my 65 BSA Lightning. Then maybe I'll strip and clean my SMLE, and ponder on the ephemeral nature of empires.

Becky
Have you noticed that lately, all of his articles are close to fluff, must be going through a period of "reflection". But you sound like you are one of the readers out there looking for "meat" to argue about, but once in awhile, it is nice just to read something the lefties will stay out of.

good ol' England, um, UK
"For a supposedly classless society, there are few places on Capitol Hill where the Honorable Members are not given precedence. American congressmen are assured of their own elevators, dining rooms, entrances and exits, and, of course, their own rest rooms in their own offices.

For all the fine rhetoric about democracy and equality in this country, few institutions are so hierarchical as the Congress of the United States."

The United States of America "...a supposedly classless society"....INDEED....AHA.

If you want to see...
...the direct opposite of England,go to Asia.I've spent a few years over there and let me tell you,there is NO queing.Airport ticket counters are surrounded by people with no lines formed at all.The guy with the biggest elbows gets waited on next.You have seen the newsreels of Japanesse uniformed guards with long batons pushing people onto railroad cars during rush hour as if they were sardines.Absolutely true.

katy my katy
Please accept my congratulations for your outstanding use of the old Jimmy Durante word 'schnozzola'. This is the first time I have seen it used in years, and you chose the exact right time to bring it out of hiding.

Again my congratulations, not to mention my thanks.


Q: Who was Colonel Stupenagel?

Actually
Most everyone here has missed the point of this brouhaha. Including Mr. Greenberg.

The reaction to Parliamentarians granting themselves the privilege of muscling in front of everyone else is, to the average Briton, just one more example of the arrogance and elitism of their leaders.

The Labourites have held power now for almost fifteen years, a record by British standards, and have repeatedly abused the position. Tony Blair's "Third Way" between capitalism and socialism has turned into both a financial boondoggle and a societal disaster. Businesses are failing at record rates, taxes are through the roof, and the streets are no longer safe.

Today, in England, a typical street thug isn't even arrested when caught in the act. However, his victim is apt to be arrested for attempting to resist. Read any column by Theodore Dalrymple to see how bad it can get.

And all through it, the Labour Party, who hold control of both Houses, keep on voting themselves more and more "perks", and ignoring the "common people" they supposedly are working for. Except insofar as creating new government programs to buy votes from specific pressure groups- something they learned from the Democrats over here.

When Gordon Brown took over from Tony Blair, he promised change. His definition of change seems predicated on the idea that Blair wasn't radical enough. And that he intends to be the Gladstone of the new, authoritarian, socialist "Cool Britannia".

And just dares anyone to try and stop him.

You can read any British newspaper, even the defiantly-leftist Manchester Guardian, and the letters in response to articles tell how angry the people over there are. But as long as the Labourites can use their voting blocs to keep themselves in power, the average person is stuck with it.

Take a good look at England today. It's what the Democrats dream of doing to America tomorrow.

cheers

eon

Except for the Mohamedians ..
getting their hands on European nukes, to hell with Europe. If Europe was so wonderful, most of us wouldn't be here.

eon - couldn't have said it better
Greenburg missed the point of his own article - but you and I didn't. Elitist, privilieged governance of the "little people" is the goal of all Marxist/socialist/dhimmicrats. After all, they know what's best for us and have the power to make us pay, through taxes, for our own demise, too.

Witness the sense of entitlement of Mrs. Bill Clinton - zero credentials, no real leadership experience, yet simply being a wronged WOMAN somehow makes her presidential material. HUH? How stupid have we become as a nation (thank you, pizz poor public education-the jewel in the crown of liberal lunacy).


Civility and manners.
Society is a creaky balky mechanism at best. Civility and good manners are the lubrication that prevents friction between various parts and keeps the social mechanism working.
A society that discards good manners and civility is a society in decline.

Okay, new rule...
Whenever a writer or poster uses the word "democracy" to describe the United States, Great Britain or other similiar modern state...Townhallers will henceforth assume that writer or poster is referring to the DEMOCRATIC PROCESS by which voters elect the politicians who represent them in legislative and executive bodies.

This will save us tiresome, college Freshman-level political science discussions about the "democracy" the ancient Greeks feared as mob rule and all that meaningless claptrap. Come on folks, you know better than this...

Oh well,
Politicians, business as usual, we are better than the public we serve, actually that should read “we don’t serve” Hey let’s give us a well deserved raise!

If we can not have security FIRST, the rest won’t matter!
HUNTER /Tancredo 2008!
http://www.gohunter08.com

Elitism of US Congress
I remember seeing a news story about a US Congressman getting nabbed by airport security because he forgot that he had a loaded handgun in his carryon baggage. I never saw a follow-up story about how the episode concluded (was he charged, or was the matter dropped by airport security and the police?).

Does anybody remember this issue?

I assume the matter was dropped, because a felony arrest of a congressman should have made headlines. This really troubles me because if one of us ordinary law abiding citizens would have forgotten we had a loaded handgun in our carryon luggage, I think it is safe to assume we would have been charged and convicted with a felony… and our lives would have been severely disrupted, and our careers would have been permanently ruined. Can you imagine applying for a professional job having a felony weapons conviction on your record?

Working for the little people
I am sorry indeed to see Britain taking up the same attitude that our elected officials have. I have been calling and faxing my senators and representative as well as other senators (on Friday I called every Republican senator urging them to vote no on the Law of the Sea Treaty) for some months now. It has happened more than once that the staffer that answers the phone is condescending or argumentative or dismissive, and tries to hang up before I am finished having my say. I tell them "Stop, you will listen to me because I am an American citizen and you work for me, I don't work for you." So far, that has worked with everyone except the staffer in Olympia Snowe's office who burped in my ear, and when I asked him about it, told me "How dare you accuse an employee of a Senator of doing such a thing?" and hung up on me. I called back and asked him for his name which he refused to give me. This is how we are treated by the staffers, who presume to give themselves the same airs our senators do. Disgusting.

Civility took a dive...
in the 1960's, when a certain Congressman crashed his car into a Washington DC reservoir - in the company of a woman not his wife.

Until that time, the marital indescretions of elected officials were not reported.

The current incivility in Congress, and their dismal public approval ratings, can be traced to that policy change by the media 40 years ago.

Not good - for us or for the Brits.

For katy
Canuck Parliament arguments/fights are downright tame (take it from this naturalised India-born Canuck/Yank) compared to those in Lok Sabha or Indian state assemblies (there are lots of records of members bonking each other with mikes).

For Nam65-66
Please remember that Asia being the largest continent (area, more grossly in population) is divided into regions. Your comments apply to East (where Japan is) and Southeast (such as Thailand, Malaysia, Singapore, ...)--but absolutely not in South (sub-continent) Asia.

Have Observed This in London
This information is interesting--that English lawmakers may now be empowered to go to the head of the queue, in violation of English tradition. I can't quite think how this is relevant, but it sure popped into my mind when I read the article: I started noticing in England about thirty years ago that while the native English were still patiently waiting in line to get on buses, immigrants (Indian, Pakistani, Middle Eastern) were not. They would station one member of their humongous family in the line, then, just as the bus was rolling in, about forty-two family members and assorted associates would show up to join Grandma or whoever the placeholder had been. Thus the whole clan got to get on the bus ahead of all the waiting English, without having to stand in line. True, they had to hang around somewhere nearby, but (the point of the exercise) they got to beat the system.

Farewell, England.

Beckie writes:
Sweet Article
with nothing of import to say. This piece of fluff belongs in Women's Day or or The Ladies Home Circle.
"How can you have any pudding if you won't eat your meat!?!?!"

You obviously missed the point. Thanks to PC England is no longer England. Common courtesy has given way to me first.

Goodby England Goodby America
Lilly, dittos here in America. It is happening here too but with border jumpers. They don't have to wait for proper clearance to get into the country why wait your turn anywhere else. Oh but they are victims so the rules don't apply to them.

I am John Doe mad as hell and am not gonna take it any more!!!!!!!! :>(

LOL
This reminds me of the time when I made MM1 (E-6) in the Navy. E-6 got "head of the line" privileges on the mess decks. That means something on a ship with 6,000 people on it. I suppose the Brits did it for the same reason we did, the theory being that these people have something better to do than stand in line with their thumb inserted.

There Wont Always Be...
When they were completing the Chunnel I was in London talking to my Cockney brother-in-law about what an amazing thing it was. His response, "England's over mate, its going to be crawling with bloody Frogs and Eye-ties." He was right. The EC has destroyed British culture just as it has the culture of all the Old European countries. Socialism has destroyed their pride and national self-esteem like a cultural bath in sulphuric acid. We're next if we're stupid enough to elect enough Democrats and put enough people on the national teat.

PS Paul Greenburg
'England Swings' was originally sung by Petula Clark not that wanker Roger Miller.

Vic
Yes, but it gives the wrong message. I don't know whether this is still true, but when I lived in Washington DC there were special dedicated parking spaces at National Airport (now Reagan Airport) for members of Congress. True, they are engaged in important work but so are a lot of other people, and this message of "I Am Special" is harmful to public relations. It comes down to whether we want our public servants to be public servants or fawned-over celebrities.

Nam 65
I think you have hit on something here---the ways people behave in a crowd when they want something seems to be an indication of national character, a kind of baromter. I remember trying to buy some lunchmeat for an impromptu picnic lunch in Italy. The deli counter was very crowded with customers all crying out to the butcher, whose name was Bruno, to wait on them first. All of the customers were women. They vied with each other to see who could appeal in the loudest most piteous whine, "Bruno! Bruno!", the name broken down into seven syllables moving down the scale. Message: I am a victim! Pity me! Take care of me!

Then there was the Argentine crowd trying to get on an Aerolineas Argentinas flight leaving the States after a frustrating four-hour delay. No order, no line, no courtesy: small children and passing Cocker Spaniels could have been trampled in the melee. Message: Brute force rules.

Not to mention the Dominican crowd at the Santo Domingo Airport enduring a nine-hour departure delay. Local folk took turn giving speeches on what they, on their personal and political influence, would do to Eastern Airlines, the employees of which would definitely be sent into the fields to cut sugar cane (I am not making this up---that's a direct quote). Message: My(imaginary) political clout trumps everything else.

I applaud the English for patiently taking turns
and would like to see more of that behavior, world-wide. In fact, I suspect that if everybody did it, such an attitude might actually save the world.

uw charlie
I expect that what you say about World War II is perfectly true, but the English attitude of consideration and polite endurance is older. I had an English stepfather. He taught us to do the same thing at the dinner table that he had been taught to do in England ca 1905: look around and see if anyone needs anything. An adult at the table would not say, "Please pass the potatoes" but, "[to the child] Look around the table and see if anyone needs anything."

Who's a twit?
"England Swings" written by Roger Miller, released & copyrighted 10 August 1965.

Petula Clark covered it, but was not the author.

Texas Tom
You've broken my heart. Is this true?

Who's a wanker?
"England Swings" released/copyrighted 10 Aug 1965 by Roger Miller. Petula Clark's cover came in 1967. Incidentally, she disagreed with you about Roger Miller. He was a frequent guest on her BBC program in the mid-60s.

My take on this essay.
In western societies, it has become common in many quarters to break cultural rules and to demand preferences, especially where the multi-culti fad is prominent. Such behavior has been wildly misconstrued to be an act of bravery. I call it treachery.

Their message; "I follow the rules of my own culture (or race), and I will not be controlled by your insensitive cultural dictates".

To tear down a culture, all one has to do is to publicly declare an heroic escape from an early life of hardship (or that of their ancestors), and then demand special treatment. Most of our politicians have a Pavlovian response to this form of adolescent manipulation and respond with favorable legislation. Hysteria works for the those who falsely believe they deserve cuts in the entitlement and preference line.

Breaking cultural rules and mocking virtue has made fortunes for leftists to include comedians and shock jocks. These groups have become role models for today's youth. As long as Howard Stern stays adolescent and vulgar, he'll be rolling in cash.

Assaulting the foundations of a culture is the first step in destroying it, and to accomplish the job, one must mock its virtues, values and traditions. And "the people" must accept this as legitimate.

An "Uncivilized" Yanks Response
Ive not had the opportunity to observe the practice of queue jumping while on London layovers, as we have a crew car and rarely use public transportation. But I believe Mr. Greenburg’s analysis is correct. “Civilized” Brits respect the law just because it’s the law. We have a word that best describes them: “Sheeple”. But Brits of “rank” accustomed to such “privilege” should remember that if they visit the US; we “Uncivilized” Yanks might take exception to such “privilege” in a most unpleasant way: especially when the Yank is some one like me who’s 6’2”, 210 lbs; with a quick temper. And the practice of queue jumping by hoards of rag heads almost makes me wish we had to take public transport while in London. I and my fellow flight crew members are all ex military Gulf war 1 & 2 vets, who don’t care much for rag heads. So we’d love any excuse to teach them proper manners, in an “Uncivilized” Yank fashion. LOL

I agree with Semper Fi
A good example of "democracy" is 3 wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for dinner.

Wow
I would not have thought there would be any controversy on the song.

http://www.cowboylyrics.com/lyrics/miller-roger/england-swi ngs-1159.html

The Saturn plant.
When the Saturn model was first started, GM made different plant rules than they had for their other plants. The idea was to cut through the politics of resentment that the UAW constantly cultivates among their ranks.

No special parking lots or preferential treatment of any kind to anyone. No executive dining areas or perks. Management dresses as casual as the line workers if they so desired.

This seems to please the rank and file very much, and it took a great deal of wind and whine out of the UAW honchos. As I've read on occasion, there is little complaint among the folks who actually build Saturns.

Its Heeere!
Kings Island, October 6th, a fanily of foreign, ( pakistani or Indian, I think ) jabbering incessantly on cell phone behind us suddenly were in front of us being stopped by the woman we were behind for trying to pass her. I quickly jumped in and sent them back, as well. Their excuse was, "but we have friends waiting for us", to which I responded, (untruthfully), "well, . . so have we!" As we left the ride later, I advised them that park officials would be less forgiving, but I immediately wished, ( and still do ), that I had simply yelled to the operators and had them expelled without prejudice. Its a creeping infection of rudeness that should not be tolerated. Intolerance of rudeness is our best hope at slowing the slide of civilization, not "hate crime" legislation.

In Socialist Great Britain
Scottish Socialists are more equal than others.

The latest step in the creation of apartheid Britain is the use of English taxpayers money (Scotland's economy is so weak that hardly any tax is paid there, with only one in ten wage earners making a net contribution to the public purse) to pay for obese Scottish children to be provided with free food in the hope that Scots will stop voting for the socialist SNP and start voting for the socialist Labour Party instead.

It is ludicruous beyond belief, but the socialists' answer to obesity is actually to give free meals to children in the areas where children are most obese. I suspect they will start giving free gas and matches to arsonists next.
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