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Wednesday, August 15, 2007
Paul Greenberg :: Townhall.com Columnist
The inarticulate society
by Paul Greenberg
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Whatever happened to the once strong, vital, unique American language?

It hasn't been seen in some time. It's been completely obscured by the thicket of "you knows" and "whatevers" and other verbal tics that now cover the language like kudzu.

In recent years, a tumorous mass of text-message techno-lingo has only added another layer to the overgrowth. Sometimes you wonder if there's still a language somewhere underneath all that mess trying to get out - or if it has simply rotted away. And with it, any hope of coherent thought.

Years ago a less-than-great book with a great title - "The Inarticulate Society" by Tom Shachtman - offered three reasons for the general decline of American as she is spoke. He claimed the decline could be traced to "three interlocking cultural courses that influence and exacerbate each other."

The first was the move away from the written word toward other means of communication - telephone, television and popular music.

But the written word has always owed much of its power to the spoken. Even now writers are told to "find a voice." And one test of good prose remains how it sounds when recited aloud.

Demosthenes was scarcely less eloquent because he was an orator, not a writer. Franklin Roosevelt and Winston Churchill could hardly be described as inarticulate; yet their most stirring words were delivered not in print but over the radio. If we have grown inarticulate, the fault lies not in our media but in our selves.

The second reason for the decline of American speech, according to Mr. Shachtman, is the lack of good public models in recent times; he cited the preppy awkwardness of the first George Bush and the deceptive glibness of Bill Clinton. The decline continues at an ever greater pace; both of those presidents would now seem veritable Ciceros compared to the dyslexic speech of our current head of state.

But it's not as if American presidents determine how articulate American society will be. Hasn't the model American hero long been the strong, silent type - that is, the inarticulate type - at least since Gary Cooper?

Yup.

So is all this mourning for American articulateness just the usual generational complaint about the younger set?

No, there's something more to it than that. If you seek evidence of the language's decline, just listen to some of the conversations around you in public places.

Or turn on your television. Almost any comedy from the '30s - see the Marx Brothers - sounds so much more articulate than its clumsy counterpart in these verbally soggy times. Those old movies actually have dialogue rather than the simulacrum that so often passes for it today.

Tom Shachtman was getting warm when he blamed the decline of American eloquence on the "marketing mentality." Instead of trying to elevate American discourse, political consultants lower it, Rather than leading public opinion, their candidates are told to reflect it.

The clear and concise Barry Goldwater lost his presidential election - big - and the lesson was not lost on the country's political hucksters: Never let 'em pin you down. Now the aim of political rhetoric is called positioning or triangulation or anything but clarity.

These days the successful political leader is told to avoid specifics and traffic in generalities, the vaguer the better. The object of political speech becomes a kind of glib opacity, to make a speech rather than say anything.

The occasional, premeditated sound bite may then be added to give the consumer the illusion of solidity, the way gravel may be added to chicken feed.

Kathleen Hall Jamieson, the magisterial arbiter of American eloquence, has noted that "leadership often requires telling the citizenry truths it does not want to hear," and that "one test of the maturity of a people is a willingness to act on facts requiring sacrifice."

Such a definition of leadership might strike modern political operatives as suicidal. They know that the way to win an election is to muffle unpleasant truths, and soften hard principles.

Besides, clarity is hard work. It's so much easier to fuzz the message, and just write around any inconvenient facts that may disrupt the smooth flow of currently fashionable platitudes. See the average American editorial.

This column is an updated version of one that originally appeared November 29, 1995 in the Democrat-Gazette.

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There are times
There are times that I like Paul Greenberg's columns, when he talks about things from a perspective of trying to see how we "got here from there" or tells a long ago story we didn't know about. Then, there are days like today when in a column purporting to discover the place we now stand with regard to poor speech ("like", "you know?), "(know what I mean?"), etc., he "just happens" to insult gratuitously the President of the United States "the dyslexic speech of our current head of state". These are the words of a closet liberal and Democrat. Slowly but surely as George W. Bush's days as president run out, I see more evidence that there is a deep-seated hatred of the man way more than deserved and this coming from people supposedly on the conservative side. "By their words, shall ye know them".

Eloquence
This reminds me of an incident in which I met one of those boorish louts who enjoys insulting strangers just to observe their reactions. I never relish such confrontations, and this time we were both guests in someone else's home, so I was trying my best to behave.

When he learned that I was American, he felt compelled to ridicule our language skills. This is a paraphrase, but I believe it is faithful to the original:

"Why is it that the English can always find words to describe a thought, such as...well... Let me think now... Oh, whatever. Nothing seems to come to mind right now. But anyway, an American would just say, 'F--k it.'"

That was just too easy. I listened quietly while he buried himself.

Verbal tics
Many of the problems of Americans (and Canadians) when it comes to articulate expression arise from a lack of vocabulary. Since George Carlin's Seven Words have become THE ONLY words you can say on television, on radio, on the bus, in music videos, and everywhere to anyone, conversation has been limited to various permutations of F*** and S*** interspersed with "you know", "I mean" and "So, I'm like, what EVER." People who won't read (who are no better than people who cannot read) who have no one more articulate than they with whom to hold discourse, including their professors and teachers, simply do not have the vocabulary for eloquence.

Recently the SPEED Channel started carrying an articulate column by a British author, in which he uses words longer than one syllable and four letters. The response (or reaction is a better word) from one group of Champ Car fans was that because the man used words they did not know and spoke with a British accent, his writing was "a piece of cr*ap."

The Boomers are retiring -- the last generation who were taught to read, write, think and speak, although many of them abandoned these teachings -- and Generation Whine, whose vocabularies are stunted and whose writings are littered with TextSpeak gibberish, are the voice of our future. Prepare for a world without vocabulary for anything more complex than sexual acts and the toilet. Talk about reaping the whirlwind.

Another Stunning Win for "Progressive Ed
The synchophants of self-esteem who infest the faculties and administrations of public education have yet another feather to put onto their hats. The morbid fear of traumatizing little twerps by actually teaching the correct use of language which involves correcting mistakes. The correction process requires the admission of error which is the antithesis of "modern education theory". Using language properly takes the simultaneous firing of at least ten synapses which is just too much effort for most of today's slackers. Maybe English as a second language should be made a universal requirement.

Latin
The decline in studying Latin probably has something to do with it.

Bertrand Russell told a story of how a British Prime Minister (Gladstone, I think) shut up a drunk heckler when he was giving a speech. He said, "May I request that gentleman, who has not once but repeatedly interrupted the flow of my observations, extend to me that large measure of courtesy which, were I in his position and he in mine, I should undoubtedly extend to him?"

I don't know of anyone today who could spin a sentence like that of the top of their head. Russell attributed this facility, which seemed to be common in the 19th century, to people's having translated Cicero and other classical authors.

FORGETTA 'BOUT IT!!!
.

Eloquence in Speech
Bacon said “Reading maketh a full man, conference a ready man, and writing an exact man.“

Reading, argumentation (conference) and writing are acts of reason. As by the way is oration. the visual media (movies, pictures, and television) appeal to the emotions. All of our actions appeal to the emotions our sense of well being, our sense of fair play, and our sense of right and wrong. We express emotion and call it reason. Small wonder that we cannot express complex thoughts. I have found over the years that people really do not like to be told the trutt: especially when it is phrased so as to be obvious. All of us prefer the poorly phrased turned half truth to the finely crafted truth.

Grandmother's papers
My maternal grandmother gave me her papers in 1992, that is her high school papers. She grew up on a homestead in Kansas and went to a 1-8 one room school and had to board in Marquette, Kansas to go to high school. Her junior and senior papers are well-written, organized, and clear with no spelling errors. My papers from high school (1965-1968) are pathetic by comparison. And she had far fewer resources available for research than I did and compared to what information is available today. Yet her works were so much better crafted than mine and her poetry from the 1930s was extremely well-crafted and beautiful.

What happens is the acceptance of a lower standard that is eventually elevated to the level of "art." It is not about beauty and craftsmanship anymore, it is about the scream and the scrawl, incomplete sentences and phrases, vulgarities and toilet humor and what ever fits into a sound byte. And are there any old-fashioned editorial virtues of reading a manuscript aloud to hear the sound of the words? More likely it is a rush to print or online regardless of fact checking or spell checking.

Dr. K

Exasperated
While I agree wholeheartedly that the quality of public oration, vocabulary levels, and educational standards have declined, please don't make sweeping generalizations about those who are younger than you. There are actually some of us who enjoy reading and debating, and even have a love of words and language. If you paint with such a broad brush you run the risk of spattering yourself.

uwcharlie
Mr. Greenberg takes Mr. Bush to task for his poor speaking skills. He does so because Mr. Bush is one of the most inarticulate, jumble-tongued orators on the public stage - not because he is a closet democrat. Mr. Bush can be further disliked because of his extremely casual respect for the constitution, his having started an unnecessary and illegal war, for expanding unfunded liabilities to the far distant horizon, for having established corporatist trade restrictions, for having criminalized political speeech. One does not have to be a Democrat to be offended by the words & deeds of Mr. Bush.

Faster off the mark
Others have beaten me to it.

Audi, you put it very well,
With vulgarity being elevated instead of shunned too many people have abandoned the concept of developing a vocabulary beyond a limited selection of 4-letter words. As long ago as my college years (over 2 decades), a particular friend of mine would laugh about ridiculous usages of what he'd dubbed "the universal adjective".

Thus we lose the incredible precision of thought and delicate shades of meaning that the rich variety of English words make possible.


ulsterscott, you also have an excellent point. Our kids are being taught to feel rather than think, to emote rather than reason.

I can't count the number of times I have, in the attempt to discuss/debate an issue, been the recipient of a foot-stomping "I HAVE A RIGHT TO MY OPINION!!!" tantrum from someone who not only can't tell the difference between an opinion that is a matter of taste and an opinion that is a position on an issue but who also believe that "freedom of speech" includes the right to never hear the words "You're wrong," on a message board.

Those unfortunates have somehow spent their lives believing that "____ Sucks!" is a legitimate position without ever being taught how to identify the specific ways in which specific aspects of ____ suck or being challenged to support their low opinion of ____ with facts and chains of reason to prove that ____ sucks.

The idea that another person might respond "____ Rocks!" and offer a selection of factual reasons and logical chains of thought to persuade others to *change their minds* is anathema to these people. (shakes head sadly)

Mother of 4
As Weird Al Yankovic put it, they "Dare to be Stupid."

It amazes me how many journalists cannot handle common phrases -- every day I see "reign him in", "poured over the documents", "tow the line" and "wreckless driving." (The latter is one of my favourites as it is not only incorrect, because someone does not realize that the 'reck' in reckless is a short form of 'reckon' -- but when these two words are paired, the result is an oxymoron.) Mama got her GED at the age of 50+, but she knows her vocabulary. "You do not pour over a book," she says, "unless you are Niagara Falls."

Decline of writing in schools
Papers have to be read to be graded. If students write less and do more visually oriented projects there is less effort required in the grading process.

Anyways
Now, that is my favorite bugaboo. Drives me almost to rage every time I hear it spoken, so I am close to the edge most of the time nowadays. When did that slihering s find it's way onto the word anyway? Sounds like California crackers to me. Nuts, anyone?

It all started
when we ceased to have socially accepted guidelines on behavior, conduct, sexual standards, what is a family, degradation of respect for public office etc. Do your own thing, don't fence me in, flag burning is free speech, don't tell me anything, can't say certain words only because they are politically correct, you can say anything else even is it is offensive, free speech you know. And we can't write either.

Not Just Inability
It isn't a simple lack of ability or training that concerns me most. The active resistance to good writing and clear thinking scares me silly.
Even worse, this active resistance seems to be focused on political discourse, rendering 90% of such interactions pointless.


The back and forth interactions on Townhall, Dailykos or any of the myriad other such sites are perfect examples.

OMG...wasup?
Watt R U mouthin bout? Can U find nuthing better 2 du?

There was a time....
when one could expect a debating opponent to avoid logical errors. And if one committed an egregious logical error, one would admit to it. Today, you can clearly point out to people their logic is completely wrong, and they will simply ignore it.

Here's another one
My favorite new indication that America is less articulate than ever is the demise of "You're welcome." It seems to have begun with the generation that is now in their 30s, and a few in mid- to late-20s. Here's my example:

You say "thank you" to one of these people and their rejoinder is "No problem." No problem???? What is that all about? Instead of saying, "You're welcome," or "my pleasure" or even "I'm happy to help," they say "no problem." It is a lazy and coarse rejoinder. And it irritates me to no end.

Brutus, I have to
disagree. Not long ago I caught an old C-Span re-run with Brian Lamb interviewing GWB. I don't recall precisely when the interview took place, but it was long before GWB became president; it was during his Texas Rangers ownership years. In any case I marvelled at how well spoken, articulate and knowledgeable (on a wide variety of subjects) he was. I doubt if he has lost his verbal communication skills when engaging in private conversation. I attribute his present manner of public speech to the "over-cautiousness" he deems necessary when responding to loaded questions from the liberal media, which lends to his his long pauses & jumbled context. When you throw in the Texas accent, it is real fodder for the elites to poke fun and feel superior to him. Those of us in the heartland think ol' George talks jist fine.

Place The Blame Where It Belongs
SQUARELY on The NEA, Teachers Unions and The Department of Education. They are all OVERRUN with Liberals who screech CONSTANTLY that they need more money. Meanwhile, all they teach the kids is how to be a Liberal Moonbat!

Audi,
As a Nascar fan, the "wreckless" driving one makes me laugh on a regular basis -- since its usually applied to drivers who are anything but wreck-less. LOL

As a homeschooler, I'm teaching my kids about Greek and Latin roots and have the older ones signed up for A Word A Day emails.





PS -- For anyone reading this who is embarrassed by his/her poor education at the hands of the dumbed-down schools, I urge you to take responsibility for the problem and set yourself a remedial course in English grammar and vocabulary. A simple internet search on "homeschool supplies" will give you many sources to purchase inexpensive, self-teaching workbooks. Additionally, just investing the price of a few fancy coffee drinks in a paperback dictionary and thesaurus that you can keep in the bathroom and flip open at random to read an entry or two a couple times a day will work wonders. :-)

The Inarticulate
One of the main problems is that when people say or write something incorrectly, hardly ever does someone correct them. Go into any store and nine times out of ten, the person who comes to assist you will say, "Can I help you?" I don't know, can you?

I don't know if this is because other people don't know proper language or are too afraid to offend. My grandparents would always correct me when I was young if I said something wrong, and though I hated it at the time, I know thank them for being able to speak proper English.

It also reminds me of the something my grandfather said to me a long time ago, "The idiots and low-lives in this country will never rise up to our level, but will drag us down to their's"

Georgetwin
You can't target the blame that tightly.

Its a broad, cultural phenomenon that isn't confined to just the schools but which also infests the media and the public at large.

Just look at what's popular on TV -- "reality" shows that consist largely at people alternately shouting (with more bleeps than words), and falling in bed.

The decline of grammar and vocabulary is tied in not only to poor schooling and the substitution of emotion for thought, but also to the rejection of beauty and truth as standards to strive for.

Truth demands precision. When truth is denied as a worthwhile goal precision becomes not only unnecessary but also undesirable. If "____ Sucks!" is your "opinion" regardless of fact supporting only "____ is adequate in general but lacking in one, specific area," then truth is the enemy to be shouted down because truth interferes with your "right to my opinion."

When Beauty is rejected in favor of "transgressiveness" or whatever it is that "artists" value in dung, muck, trash, and blasphemy (a quality not worth the dignity of a name unless that name be "filth"), you not only get affronts to the eye but affronts to language such as the "poetry" and "music" which consist of free-form obscenities, insults, and raving.

Thus the beauty of a well-constructed paragraph or the orderly exposition of an idea is replaced by the "rant".

Mother of 4
However big the tree, it sprouted from small seed(s). I was pointing out from whence the problem took root

Athletic Genius
Reading is a great joy of mine. Having the dictionary close by is an imperative. It enhanced the experience. That being said, I cannot believe the amount of people that cannot describe an emotion or an experience. The reporter asks them to describe how they are feeling. "It's indescribeable". It is? Why not try? Most of you have a college degree. But, perhaps I ask too much. If they do try to pontificate, I may be subject to a barrage of "ya know's" and "like's". Or maybe, because they don't have a useful vocabulary, they'll just point to the ceiling and thank God. After all, I'm sure God was watching that particular event more than any other event in the world. We won't know about it though. God won't burn a bush or send down commandments. After all, what he feels and sees...it's indescribeable.

Near miss
Is a near miss not in fact a colision?

The Loss of the Language
"The stormy petrels of the baseball diamond, the web-footed fellows who represent the American League in the city of New York, took flight last night for the breezy, boastful west. Buffeted by Jupiter Pluvius and Dame Fortune to the limit of despair, the Yankees went on their way with the same smile of unconcern that has met all their manifold reverses in the past."
I have a small collection of old newsprint. The quote above came from the SPORTS PAGE of the Globe and Commercial Advertiser, New York...Thuirsday, August 17, 1905. Have we lost the language? When prose such as the above was penned by a "sports writer" a century ago...and today I doubt there are many in sports, or anywhere else in the media, who would even comprehend them...you bet we've lost the language!

Correction
collision

Well I am publicly educated.

Functional illiteracy
I was fortunate in being born into a family where English was spoken well, albeit with a southern accent. I found that this exposure to parental literacy was also critical in shaping my sons’ speaking and writing abilities, which are excellent despite their being less extensively trained in the mechanics of the language than I was.

I was schooled by AudiR10's "nuns with guns", who were sticklers for spelling, grammar and punctuation, and who would make us diagram sentences for what seemed like eons at a time. One of them had a reputation for "training" entrants in the city-wide spelling bee, and got me in her sights. She spent countless hours drilling me from arcane word lists, which did wonders to expand my vocabulary--as did the four years of Latin I was required to take in high school.

If today’s schools placed more emphasis on basic English language skills and less on “nurturing the child’s self-esteem”, we’d probably have fewer narcissistic illiterates in our midst whose communication abilities suggest an evolutionary regression to the level of our simian ancestors.

Ongoing Process
We are continually told that teachers are underpaid, and the problem with our educational system can be cured with money and computers. A co-worker whined about how his mother/teacher's textbooks still referred to the Soviet Union. I have difficulty seeing this as a major problem since it seems modern students can't read or find either the Soviet Union or the Russian Federation on a globe.

My favorite language bugaboos: "contact". I cannot contact you; I must MAKE contact WITH you. "presently". I'm sorry, I'll end this message presently, but AT PRESENT I'm still busy writing it.

"Your" and "You're" have become interchangeable, as have "They're", "Their" and "There".

The UPI styleguide has also given me conniptions. For example, articles following the UPI styleguide repeatedly fail to capitalize President and State when referring to the U.S. chief executive or one of the sovereign members of the union.

Parse-l Tongue
I'm pleased to see the level of expertise in expression from the above posters. Too often, those who post comments here at TH write as inarticulately as Mr Greenberg describes in his essay and beyond: poor word choice; profanity; illogical statements and conclusions; incomplete sentences; unnecessarily parsed words; made-up words; etc.

It appears possible to me that a great deal of the poor language skills so often read and heard about the landscape are due to the advertisers and politicians. Examples are all around us. Remove all influence from those two areas, and I'm sure the average comprehension and expressive ability of the populace would spike upwards very quickly. We might even see an increase in smart voting.

It was opportune
that "English" became my second language; although at the early age of eleven. Since that time it has become my first language and preference of communication. When I started school in this country in 1958 I was lost, but only for about six months, after that it seemed as if fluency just came in leaps and bounds.

I'm also fortunate in that I have always been fond of reading which is also why I have accomplished the basics of the language. I still use a dictionary to expand my knowledge and marvel at the explanation of each new word.

ARTICULATE? WHAT'S THAT?
You mean, like, uh, wha'?

PUNCTUATION? WHAT'S THAT?
Does anyone know what a dependent clause is? I believe it was Bill Murchison who wrote a column relating to commas and mentioned in particular their use in connection with dependent clauses. It was some time ago; I could be wrong about both the author and the subject.

Punctuation is sometimes difficult even for more accomplished writers.

I feel sorry for the poor apostrophe. Nobody knows positively, absolutely how to use it properly. As a result, most writers simply go along merrily, using apostrophes as the spirit moves them. Its not a big deal, is it? It's improper use is not going to kill us, is it?

Please don't write me back about apostrophe's. I have a positive relationship with the little buggers, and whose to stop me?

I should also mention that writing is communication. If one is incapable of writing, one is incapable of making his (or her'n) opinions truly understood.

This was fun.

Citizen X
Another one of these near-miss type errors is "fell between the cracks." Well if he fell between the cracks, that means he hit the floor, doesn't it?

I annoy stewardesses by pointing out that "we will be arriving at the gate momentarily" is incorrect; 'momentarily' means FOR a moment, not IN a moment. The word they are looking for is "shortly." Or perhaps "soon." And Mama taught us the difference between lie and lay is that "Chickens lay; children lie." Of course the difference between "can" and "may" is best illustrated by the kid who asks "Can I climb up on top of the shed?" and Daddy says "You CAN. But you MAY NOT."

P.S. It used to be a test of whether a person was really from New York City or not, to ask her to pronounce the words Marry, Merry and Mary.

A true New Yorker will pronounce all three of these words differently.

If you can't write...
--
...so as to convey in what you've written the sense of what you think, then you can't think.

Pertinent to the remark of "Dr. K" regarding the drafts of high school papers left to him by his/her maternal grandmother matched against those he/she had produced in high school (1965-1968) - which he/she judges "pathetic by comparison" - it should be understood that when he objective of schooling is the DESTRUCTION of the ability to think, "pathetic" prose is a mark of the pedagogue's purpose perfectly fulfilled.

The ex-Education and ex-English majors teaching high school in the '60s were much the same as their successors who taught my kids in the '80s and who have been teaching my grandchildren over the past ten years.

Incapable themselves of intellectual lucidity (or any semblance of right reason), I've never been surprised to find that they can't help their students develop such capacities. Indeed, I accept and understand their reasons for actively hating any kid who shows even a hint of talent in that regard, and suppressing any demonstration thereof.

Fortunately, I had instructors in the sciences who insisted on proper laboratory reports and summary papers on reviews of the literature. I was surprised in college to learn that the methods for putting together expostulatory prose on the "hard" side of C.P. Snow's *Two Cultures* works just fine when a technogeek has to bash up something for the people in the squishy subjects.
--

"You live and learn. Or you don't live long."

..-- Robert A. Heinlein
--

Writing is the key==its too infrequent
SJ_Doc wrote:
"If you can't write so as to convey in what you've written the sense of what you think, then you can't think."

This is the key to understanding the current state of "education" in Usmerican schools (at least the so-called "public" ones). The NEA (and all its ilk), etc., **do not want** a populace that can think. Therefore, in-depth writing is forbidden. Those who think cannot be driven but must be led. "Leading" is hard work; politicians and bureaucrats are as lazy as anyone else.

We have the formulaic, five-paragraph "essay". This is, of course, graded solely on mechanics (although ignoring spelling, grammar, etc.), and anything that varies from the "received wisdom" of the puppeteers in government is dismissed.

This is not a new phenomenon--it happened in my father's day (I'm nearly 60). It was a point of "governmentizing" education in the XIX and forcing children into schools. (Others included weakening families and training children to obey capricious orders without question.)

No pretended good resulting from
government-controlled schools can
balance the horrific cost they impose
on teachers, taxpayers, and students
and their families.

Le
==
Please visit http://www.schoolandstate.org

Had to leave ...
... out the "'" in "it's" in the previous message.
There was no room, even after I edited it for character count several times.

No laughing permitted.

I will believe that bureaucrats should
raise children when no mother feels remorse
when she leaves her child at school and
when no child feels abandoned when she does.

Le
==
Please visit http://www.schoolandstate.org

Posters have this one covered
Refusal of teachers to teach correct grammar, diction, and annuncation.

The left's insistence that Spanish be legitimized so hispanics have no incentive to make English their first language.

Black English, which was formally called "ebonics", which meant that the anti-whites in the black 'community' immediately had to bastardize it even further and call the new sub-dialect u-bonics.

Rap (puke).


The only thing missing is the verse from "My Fair Lady":

"Why can't the English set a good example

for people whose English is painful to your ears?

The Scotch and the Irish bring you close to tears?

There even ar places where English completely disappears

(In America they haven't used it for years)."

We can all be gracious..............

A B C D Puppies.??.
L, M N O Puppies.

O S D R, C M P.

Famous Writers

"He has never been known to use a word that might send a reader to the dictionary."
William Faulkner (about Ernest Hemingway)

"Poor Faulkner. Does he really think big emotions come from big words?"
Ernest Hemingway (about William Faulkner)

"Thank you for sending me a copy of your book; I'll waste no time reading it."
Moses Hadas

"He can compress the most words into the smallest idea of any man I know."
Abraham Lincoln




Got a couple of problems with this
article:

Politicians ALWAYS LIE, so who cares HOW they say the lie.

In the article PG writes: ...the general decline of American as she is spoke.

And HE is going to correct WHOM?

There are times when the mistakes by the columnists are just as egregious as the posters and for succinctness, I do not object as much as some people for the 'new language' though I can not use it myself.

Anyone who would relish a REAL education should get an old textbook from any garage sale and read it. It is now amazing the words they used and the complex ideas that even younger students were EXPECTED to know.

academically challenged
In graduate school many years ago during Readings in American History I observed those who were most academically challenged. They came from the teaching profession, high school teachers. One poor fellow who had been teaching for 10 years didn't know what was meant by the theme of a book. Another fellow left class shortly before he was to present his book review. And yet another never even showed up for class. This episode re-affirmed by view that the School of Education was full of it. I presume that the downward spiral continues to this day.

Dr. K

Paul Greenberg's column
Just for fun, take a front page article from a newspaper and edit it for correct spelling, headline matching the content of the article, and just plain clear prose. So many times, a story comes out so jumbled that by the time the last line appears, the reader is completely at sea. I didn't notice Mr. Greenberg mentioning anything about the press. Maybe the utter confusion of so many articles leads to people getting their late-breaking news from T.V. It's at least understandable, except for weird pronuciation of foreign names and places.
Someday it will be acceptable to say,"Give it to her and I." Our language is in a constant flux,so in the meanwhile, we might as well sit back and try not to grit our teeth over meaningless trivialities.

Dr. K
It is a small world, indeed. I grew up not too far from Marquette, Kansas. And my grandmother attended a 1-8 one-room school.

It is sobering to peruse (hey! There's a word of more than one syllable!) textbooks used in the 19th century, such as the old McGuffey Readers. Grade-school students in those days were capable of more intellectual attainments than most college students today--and they learned better moral values, too.

Dare to be stupid
ROFL AudiR10! But don't you *reckon* that most of the lines of Weird Al's song would be utterly lost on the iPod generation?

Come to think of it, IMHO it takes a well-educated, sophisticated mind to appreciate parody--and these are not being produced by the guvmint skools.

Great posts!
So many great posts, so little time!

Mother of 4, you are absolutely correct about truth.

AudiR10, I'm relieved to know I'm not the only English speaker who mourns the death of the knowledge of lie/lay and may/can.

Wise One, you're completely on target re the PC aspect of teaching (we dare not correct the little Mexicans or blacks for fear of damaging their cultural self-esteem). That would have been laughable to my German ancestors, who were forced to function in English in school, but who were free to speak German at home. I can't recall ever having heard a relative complain about the mean old teachers who *made* them speak, read, and write English. Conversely, we kids born right after WWII were *not* taught German by our parents (that wasn't too popular, as you can imagine) but had to go to college to learn our ancestral language.

Jamie, excellent suggestion. It drives me crazy to see the egregious (four syllables there) mistakes that are allowed into print. My theory is that too many so-called editors depend on SpellCheck. The human brain is still the best spell-checker--but it must first be correctly taught.

"Her and I" is already lingua franca (ooh! That's Latin!) along with "Her and me went to the mall."

I'll never forget my first Latin year in high school, back in antediluvian (six syllables! I'm getting longer!) times. I was thrilled to look at Latin words and realize, "That's where we got the Englsh words!" Does no student experience that pleasure any more?

Once a Marine, ROFL! My mother, who grew up in the Depression, used to break us up by telling us a rhyme she learned as a child: "F U N E X? S, V F X. F U N E M? S, V F M. V F M N X."

I'd be surprised if today's grade schooler could even identify the letters, let alone the hidden sentences.


Great posts 2
Can anyone tell me why, when I write an ordinary post, the site tells me there's a 2000-word limit, yet some posters manage to concoct posts of appalling length? (Mostly by cutting and pasting from other sources)

Mamadoc, congratulations! I'm a sister spelling-bee competitor. I was the Kansas state champion in 1960, placing 10th in the national bee. I have never ceased to be grateful for the way studying for the bee improved my vocabulary. To this day I recognize certain words, such as "tintinnabulation," as bee words. Have you noticed that in recent years the national bee winners have been mostly home schooled, and often children of Oriental origin?

Tony
Re your comment about the incorrectness of "Can I help you?"

My 2 1/2 year old grandson knows the difference. If his mother (who should know better) prompts him, as many moms would, "Can you say thank you?" he replies, "yes"--and that's the end of it. He's answering correctly; of course he is able to (can) say thank you!
To get him to utter the words "thank you," it is necessary to command him to do so. ("Say thank you!")

It's a shame that logic that clearly evident to a toddler is ignored by grownups.
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