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Tuesday, December 11, 2007
Paul  Edwards :: Townhall.com Columnist
Hillary's "Home-Run" For the Purpose-Driven Left
by Paul Edwards
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The problem is not that Rick and Kay Warren invited Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton to be the keynote speaker at their third annual Global Summit on AIDS and the Church at Saddleback Church. The problem is that Rick Warren never engaged the Senator on the points where many evangelicals are at odds with her agenda.

Giving Senator Clinton a platform in one of the largest evangelical churches in America exposes her agenda, allowing us to engage her in the arena of ideas on the social issues on which we fundamentally disagree, something conservative evangelicals should welcome.

Senator Clinton was welcomed by the ostensibly evangelical crowd with a standing ovation. She spoke for just under 30 minutes, taking as her text James 2:26, “Faith without works is dead.” Wrenching it from its context, Clinton began:

One of my favorite passages in Scripture is that famous line from James that “faith without works is dead.” But I have concluded that works without faith is just too hard. It cannot be sustained over one’s life or over the generations. And it’s important for us to recognize how, here in what you’re doing, faith and works come together.

There’s just one problem: faith and works don’t “come together.” Our works are never independent of our faith. We don’t add our faith to our works. Our works flow from and validate our faith.

The point of the James passage is not to suggest that we add faith to our works in order to make our work easier and more fulfilling. Rather, our works flow from our faith in Jesus Christ to give evidence of our salvation from sin, and this faith is “not of ourselves” but is itself “the gift of God” (Ephesians 2:8-9). The point of the James passage is not to say that what we do can somehow be made easier by our belief in what we are doing, but rather to say that we can do nothing ultimately pleasing to God unless it flows from our faith in Jesus Christ (cf. Romans 14:23; Hebrews 11:6). Senator Clinton, it seems, has redefined faith to mean faith in our works rather than faith in Jesus producing our works.

Throughout her speech the Senator similarly mishandled the Word of God, at one point paraphrasing 1 Corinthians 12:12 saying, “Corinthians tells us that the body is made up of many parts, and though all its parts are many, they form one body.” She then went on to interpret the “the parts of the body” as the combining of government resources (tax revenue) with the resources the church can provide (comfort care). However, the text of Scripture clearly indicates that the body is Christ’s Church and believers are the individual members thereof.

But the most egregious misapplication of Scripture came when the Senator from New York said:

We are taught to heal the sick, to love them as our own, but 25 years ago too many died alone ashamed to tell their families what had made them ill. In the Gospels we learn that one-third of Christ’s ministry was healing the sick. And if you read those moments when Jesus is presented with someone who is ill, it becomes abundantly clear that Christ had a choice. He could have been too busy. He could have thought, you know, “This is not the message of the day. I don’t need to do this. I’ve already done it in Capernaum, so I don’t need to do it again.” But he made the choice. He never asked why someone was sick. He just healed and ministered to those in need.

In that quote Clinton humanizes Jesus, bringing him down to a level equal to fallen man. The reality is, Jesus didn’t heal everyone who came to him for healing (John 2:23-25). She further humanizes Jesus by forgetting that the reason Jesus never asked why a person was sick before healing them was because he didn’t need to. As God, he knew why they were sick. (Clinton is implying here that Jesus never associated a person’s behavior with their illness, as evangelicals associate the sinful behavior of homosexuals with AIDS/HIV.)

But Clinton is wrong. On at least one occasion, the healing of the paralytic in Matthew 9, Jesus healed the man by saying, “Your sins are forgiven you.” Jesus demanded repentance as he went about healing the sick, an important part of the gospels Clinton seems to have forgotten.

In addition to walking the audience through her own comprehensive AIDS/HIV agenda, she offered at least three objectives her presidency would seek to achieve with respect to the AIDS/HIV crisis. In doing so, Clinton further exposes her socialistic worldview: (1) she would ask for $50 billion over five years to combat HIV/AIDS; (2) make the education of the world’s children a priority in the fight against AIDS (what she called “a social vaccine against the spread of HIV/AIDS”); (3) “stand up for Women’s Rights” by “working to empower women to take responsibility for themselves and for their futures with initiatives on everything from maternal health, to micro credits, and entrepreneurship.” (For Clinton, “maternal health” is a code word for “reproductive rights” which is itself a code word for “abortion on demand.”)

Her words were greeted with rousing applause by an evangelical audience.

Senator Clinton also offered six things the church could do to combat AIDS/HIV: (1) care for those who are infected and their families; (2) encourage testing, even become testing centers; (3) unleash volunteers; (4) reduce the stigma by showing it’s not a sin to be sick; (5) champion healthy behavior; (6) be treatment coaches for those taking medication. She added that churches “must tend to the spiritual side of this crisis,” which she defined as comfort care for orphans and psychological care for those diagnosed with AIDS/HIV. Nothing in Clinton’s list vaguely resembles the mandate Jesus left His Church.

While Senator Clinton is correct that Jesus spent one-third of his ministry healing the sick, she conveniently leaves out that the bulk of Jesus’ ministry—the other two-thirds—was spent preaching and teaching, calling men and women to repent of their sins. This is the priority of the church. While we should not ignore the plight of the suffering, the sick and the dying, neither should we fail to fulfill the one mandate our Savior gave: “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature’ (Mark 16:15; emphasis added).

Rick Warren has become the new face of the evangelical right in America. Mark Pinsky, religion writer for the Orlando Sentential, in an opinion piece for USA Today last August, described Warren as “pragmatic, politically sophisticated,” and among the evangelical leaders who make up the “emerging face and voice of American evangelicalism.”

As the new face of American evangelicalism, Rick Warren has a responsibility to resist the temptations of political expediency by remaining true to his first calling: preach the Word (2 Timothy 4:2). But it seems Pastor Rick has learned you get much more favorable media coverage when you cover what the media favors. Rather than take a bold stand for the Gospel and its clear message of repentance, Warren has opted to follow today’s religious left as they revive the social gospel of the early decades of the 20th century, allowing Clinton’s mishandling of the Word of God and the presentation of her socialistic agenda to go unchallenged.  

Not only did he not challenge her agenda, at the conclusion of the Senator’s speech Rick Warren came to the podium and in remarks that were picked up by the microphone he said to Senator Clinton: “Fantastic! Home run … home run … home run! Great message!” 

Either Rick Warren wasn’t listening to what his guest was saying for the previous 30 minutes, or Warren is being less than candid with evangelicals about his own agenda.

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About The Author

Paul Edwards is the host of The Paul Edward Program and a pastor. His program is heard daily on WLQV in Detroit and on godandculture.com

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Character not policy
The problem with Clinton is not her policies but her character. She could have stood up and given a policy speech that in no way contradicted evangelical politics - if there is truly such a thing.

She did not, and the evangelicals should have been smart and tough enough to recognize that.

But even if she had, the problem is that, because she has no character, she is perfectly capable of pandering to her audience - so should we then stand up and cheer?

clinton @ Aides Summit
From what I understand all the candidates were invited to speak. Ms. Clinton is the only one who came. She is not a biblical scholar and Pastor Warren was not putting on the Aides summit to correct theological beliefs. I believe the purpose was to call attention to HIV/AIDES and how the church can work to help those suffering. I am not voting for Ms. Clinton but I respect the fact that she took the time to show up and address the AIDES issue. I wish a Republican candidate would have cleared his calendar to be there. It spoke volumes that a day could not be cleared to come and speak on such a huge world issue. I am a republican and I am disappointed.

kim
No one is asking for a biblical scholar. What I would like to see is someone who is not a hypocrite.

The issue is Warren's theology
I fully recogize that a presidential candidate doesn't have to be a biblical scholar, but shouldn't a pastor? The issue was not that Hillary got all the theology wrong (even though it is her flawed theological interpretations which inform her flawed social policies).

The larger issue is that Rick Warren, a theologically trained minister, would not challenge her flawed interpretations of Scripture, but allow them to stand as fact when clearly they are not.

Is "Social Conservative"
a euphemism for "Religious Conservative?" Aren't people social conservatives because of their religious beliefs? Then,I urge conservatives to quit pussyfooting around. Purge the term "social conservative" and tell it like it is.

To Proud Liberal: Not at all
Many who are socially conservative are not particularly religious in the traditional sense of the word. We just happen to agree with the "best" way to live happens to be in accordance with the ideas formulated within the various Judeo-Christian sects.

It does not require religious zealotry to see that the current culture being promoted by secular-progressives is neither healthy, nor, in the long run, viable.

Timing
Again, Pastor Warren was not there to address or correct beliefs. It was about AIDS. To address Ms. Clinton publicly on here misinterpretation would take away from the purpose of the summit. It's a shame a republican was not there. I am sure they would have misused scripture too. Again I am a republican, I believe Ms. Clinton speaks out of both sides of her mouth. She showed up, last year Obama showed up, the republicans should have showed up.

PeterE
Thanks.

I'm looking for a person who can lead and support my country.

We have an old timey saying about Sen. Clinton

"She's anybody's dog who'll walk her"

These events should not be political
My issue with Hillary is that she is such a politically polarizing figure and that she will use this as a platform to advance her own political agenda and ideology. For the Clintons, church and faith are just additional tools to be used when expedient to advance their agendas.

If I thought Hillary was sincere, I wouldn't have an issue with her going to such an event, even with doctrinal gaffes. She is not a theologian, and hopefully the congregation is saavy enough to take her words with a grain of salt. Regarding challenging her at this event - it's rude to do so in this context, because it wasn't set up as a debate. However, I am disappointed that she was apparently the only speaker.

I do think that the church needs to be above politics. I was a Sunday School teacher for an adult class for a couple of years before we moved, and while 75% of my class was politically conservative, there were also some liberals. I wanted everyone to feel welcome and accepted. I was not willing to "accept" incorrect doctrine, but I was willing to accept different political viewpoints. The love of Christ transcends such worldly constructs as political parties. When we enter the house of God, we should leave our political differences at the door, and enter together in a state of reverence for God and of love for each other.


Paul Edwards
"The issue is Warren's theology" ...

...and hers both serve the god of this world.

As opposed to the creator King, coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.


Looks inconsistent, but it's not
ThePosterFormerlyKnownAsInklingRevival writes:

I chided other Evangelicals for claiming they would not vote for a candidate who violates their principles, speaking of abortion. I'm sympathetic, but since the President only minimally affects abortion policy, I'm inclined to give that criterion a lot less weight than they seem to.

However, on the matter of corruption, I have very little grace. I can manage the ordinary sort of friend-appointing and trip-taking, barely. But when I see a politician engaged in outright corruption, flagrant violations of the law, and hypocricy, I simply cannot vote for that politician.

For that reason, I would not attend a church meeting at which Hillary Clinton was speaking, I would not applaud her under any circumstances, I would not shake her hand if I met her, and I would not, under the most dire of circumstances, cast a vote for her.

Ms. Clinton falls into a special category of "humans too vicious to face."

I am appalled that the pastor of a large church turned his pulpit over to that woman. I understand he's looking for a centrist reputation, and wants to avoid taking sides in political debates; but outright dishonesty crosses partisan lines, and represents a threshold no religious leader can afford to cross.

(Unrelated to this thread, please read my political blog, "Plumb Bob Blog: Squaring the Culture," at http://www.plumbbobblog.com. Thanks.)

In Short
It’s about knowing and doing God’s will not asking God to back-up one’s own will.

http://klintons.com

There was no pulpit!
This whole summit happened during the week! It was attended by a total of 1000 people at best. People from all over the world. The people who attended care about the sick, the orphans and the widows due to the AIDS epidimic.

I think it's great that there is a pastor who is trying to be the voice for those suffering with AIDS.

Again, Pastor Warren invited all candidates to attend and address how they will work with the pandemic of AIDS. The platform was open to all.


Be outraged that 15 million are orphaned from AIDS.
Be outraged that the majority of world has looked the other way.



Sounds like guilt manipulation to me
Kim wrote: "Be outraged that 15 million are orphaned from AIDS. Be outraged that the majority of world has looked the other way."

A) I will be outraged at whatever I feel is important, you young, arrogant little twit, and if you don't like the subject of my outrage you can stuff it up your self-righteous little tight kazoody.

B) I'm just kinda curious: if Pastor Warren had opened his stage to all candidates to declare what they would do to stop illegal aliens from crossing our borders, flooding our humanitarian agencies and hospitals and overflowing our schools, would you have insisted that his church's tax-exempt status be revoked because of political activism? I'm just betting you would.

C) How many BILLIONS of dollars have Americans spent dealing with AIDS in Africa over the past 30 years? "Looked the other way" my buttski, child.

Guilt manipulation is evil. Categorize yourself.

katy
I seem to recall that the missus clinton's youth minister said that the missus clinton was drawn to politics and desire to remake america akin to a religious calling. If the missus clinton is driven to politics through some form of religious zeal that does send out a disturbing message. I have no problem with anyone living their lives with a religious based moral compass, I just don't want any politician extending this zeal to public policy

The Left’s view of man and kingdom…

The truth tells us ‘to seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness’ and the other things necessary for life will be added unto you. The Left cannot hear it. Their perversion of the gospel doesn’t include sin and righteousness. Personal sin and moral guilt covered by the imputed righteousness of God through faith is an unknown gospel from an unknown Bible.

In their world the greatest need of men is not redemption because he is not fatally flawed, only damaged. They see the state as the kingdom and reverse its priorities. Their kingdom work is to provide for the physical needs of man through the state. They take upon themselves the benevolence function of the churches without regard to righteousness. They violate their own mantra of separation of church and state and promote the corruption of both.

Hillary and Obama

Well...lets see:

Hillary and Obama = pro abortion.
Why in the world would anyone want to encourage these folks.
In the United States alone 40 million abortions.


If Rev. Warren is so intent in saving lives maybe he can sponsor a pro life "Global Summit"

PlumbBob
A) Do you have to get personal?

B) You are comparing an apple to an orange!

C) I said the majority not all

D) Check your blood pressure

To Kim
It was Warren's "pulpit" metaphorically speaking and what difference does the day of the week make? *All* of the candidates were *not* invited, only the top three in the polls from each of the major parties. Kay Warren told me this when I interviewed her on my program in Detroit. Why only the top three?

And I don't think anyone here is "outraged" that an evangelical pastor is talking about AIDS. I'm just wishing he'd also include faithfulness to God's word as he talks about AIDS.

Hillary's Scripture mangling
Bravo! I am sick of tired of people, whether lay or IRreverends, twisting Scripture to fit a Procrustean bed of their own choosing. Especially when clever politicians like Hillary, who are diametrically opposed to my Christian values, do it in an attempt to bamboozle conservative Christians.

But please be careful. Scripture misinterpretation is an equal opportunity trap. There's nothing in Jn. 2:23-25 that hints that Jesus turned anyone away who asked him for healing – only that he did not trust those who believed in him.

purposefully driven
If Rick Warren is the face for pupose driven evangelism; then Hillary is perfect face for the purpose-driven politician.

Kim
Faithfulness to the Word of God and the correct interpretation and preaching thereof is the calling of a pastor. Any pastor who allows someone to speak in his church who doesn't have enough respect for God's word to use it correctly should lose his pulpit. Neither my pastor (nor the deacons of my church) would ever allow this. Mr. Edwards is correct - no one has any objection at all to a church participating in or initiating an AIDS outreach or summit or whatever, but all Christians should object when one of the largest evangelical churches in America allows a pro-abortion presidential candidate to use the pulpit to advance her political career.

It is such an eye opener
I always come to Town Hall to find out what the
Bible says, how it should be interpreted, how Jesus didn't really mean to feed the poor but to make the lazy bastards go out and get a job - you know that kind of stuff.

I'm voting for Hillary. Whatever her faults are,
they are far less worse than what we have now,
both in policy and in actuality.

virridummy
again yoiu show up to tell us you are voting for the missus clinton your great hero. I am still waiting to hear how you have determined she is a hero. Being a hero means putting yourself at risk to save another. Your lame explanation that she introduced some lame legislation doesn't qualify as a heroic deed. But you have informed us you are counting on the missus clinton to fund your medical affliction. You alas are nothing more than a typical lib looking to the govt to solve your problem. You support the missus clinton as she plans to spend as many dollars as she can get her hands on by the typical dim plan of punishing the earners to reward the losers in our society. It's too bad you libs don't expend as much energy taking care of your own needs as you spend lining up at the public trough looking for increased handouts

I have to view
Mr. Warren cautiously now, like most televangelists. To associate himself with and applaud the likes of Hillary certainly raises my eyebrows. But then again, like many Christian leaders with a positive message, Mr. Warren tickles the ears of his congregation. His church's rise to prominence, power and wealth seems to be typical of today's prominent Christian leaders.

Hillary enables a serial rapist
and as such is as guilty of rape and the battering of those women whom her husband has raped and/or forced to have sex to keep their state jobs (and federal jobs?) as he is. She has hounded these women and threatened their livelihoods, even their very lives. They may also be murderers ... given the number of their political enemies who have turned up dead under strange circumstances.

And yet it is embarrassing that no Republican running for President would show up to discuss for example the horrific impact of Clinton Administration policies on African AIDS -- including Clinton's own endorsement of oral sex as a harmless and appropriate behavior even for young children.

What's next? Will Rick Warren sponsor ritual sex and child sacrifice at the altar?

The Trojan Horse of 2008 Hillary Clinton

It is unbelievable how even Christians will allow themselves to become gullible to Hillary’s snow job while they allow themselves to be mesmerized by her lies and deceit in order to bring her Socialism to America, and push us further towards a Communist society.

New York has Lost Jobs,

thousands of jobs while Hillary has been Senator of New York State.

She promised to bring jobs to the state and has not brought one company or job.

If Hillary is incapable of developing jobs in the state of New York, how on earth is she capable of developing jobs for the whole country?

She can not, just like she could not produce a national Healthcare program in 1992, which we do not need anyway being it is not in the Constitution for the country to provide.

The main point is, this person has never accomplished anything significant while in a public position, therefore she is not a proven leader capable of developing programs that create growth, revenues and jobs.

Paul Edwards writes
"The issue was not that Hillary got all the theology wrong (even though it is her flawed theological interpretations which inform her flawed social policies)."

I don't think her interpretations inform her policies at all; I think she tortures out of scripture support for public policies she already has. You can study the Bible to find what you should do or search the Bible to find justification for what you want to do. She has certainly done the latter!

When the Good Samaritan encountered the man who fell among thieves, he didn’t seek out the nearest Centurian garrison to initiate a search for them, he didn’t petition the Sanhedrin to establish inns for indigent care, he didn’t organize the locals into a committee to study the problem of roving robber bands. As the scripture relates, “he had compassion on him, and went to him, and bound up his wounds, pouring in oil and wine, and set him on his own beast, and brought him to an inn, and took care of him.”

Socialism is a perversion of all that the New Testament encourages - not its culmination.

Some Misconceptions
Rick Warren is not a "televangelist". He is a church planter/ pastor/ writer/ trainer of others. He began Saddleback church from scratch, after a great deal of research, and in consultation with others. This was immediately after grad school.

It is a shame that Hillary was the only one to show up for the aids event. Where are the Republicans? Where were they last year?

Unlike many posters here, I have read Warren's books in detail (also taught them) and know his core beliefs and background. I believe that he is probably making some gaffes at present, such as applauding Hillary's self serving, twisted applications of the Gospels; but Warren is a man of God.

Rick Warren
I haven't trusted this guy since he made those stupid comments about the people in Syria being so free and happy.

This is a link about why Warren embraces Hitlery.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=58 986

Pastor E
I really do not like disputing a pastor, but I have to disagree about Mr. Warren. Did you know that he signed on to the "Christian Response" to the Common Word letter from the Muslim Theogians? Have you read that letter wherein it states that our eternal souls are at stake unless we make peace with the Muslims? Doesn't this turn the Gospel of Jesus Christ upside down? If salvation is through Christ and Christ alone, then how can our relationship to any person or group of persons effect that salvation? If Rick Warren believes the letter he signed, then he believes that salvation is works based, in which case he is not preaching the Gospel.

Rick Warren
I have read and participated in a small group using Warren's book - A Purpose Drive Life - and the biggest take away I had from that experience was - Rick Warren is not the kind of person I want to hear preach or read much about him. He continually takes a position, IMHO, of "knowing what God wants for each of us" which I consider to be be the highest form of conceit. So it doesn't surprise that as he gets more and more caught up in the cult of celebrity that is taking over much of America, he would embrace anyone, including someone as evil as Hilary - and yes folks I do believe she is evil - so he can get more publicity.

So not surprised he would not question her message, but worse would become a supporter of her efforts to take over the country and lead us down a path of bigger gov't. So Rick and his wife can climb in bed with devil if they like, but hopefully God will talk to Rick and show his purpose in life should not be to support an evil liberal agenda.

Hillary's king
Hillary is led by her faith. Faith in her god, which is her agenda. She has no king in her life, just like the last verse in the book of Judges. In those days there was no king in Israel: everyone did what was right in his own eyes. Hillary has proven that she is her own king, and she wants to be king in America. Her agenda is to set up this country as a communist, socialist nation, throw out God, and convince everyone that she is the goddess of this nation. She will take any platform that lets her state her agenda, and like her father, the devil, she will present herself as an angel of light. Don't walk in her darkness. Have nothing to do with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them. Thanks, Townhall, for exposing Hillary's agenda.

Hillary and Rick
Very good article beachmom, thanks for that link. (http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=58 986)
The only one Hillary cares about is Hillary. The only one Rick cares about is Rick. The reason Hillary butchers scripture is because she doesn't live it. You don't have to be a theologian to understand your faith.
I have one message for Rick. He is fooling himself if he thinks he is going to bring P.E.A.C.E. to the world. My Christianity tells me that only Jesus Christ is going to do that. The problem is why do so many people get AIDS. All the money and government programs in the world will only alleviate some of the symptoms temporarily. Rick Warren needs to understand that glorifying himself and whomever is on his popularity contest agenda is not glorifying God. When all is said and done, GOD will be glorified! Maybe Hillary and Rick should have gone forward a few pages to where it says: God opposes the proud and gives grace to the humble. 1 Peter 5:5
Quite frankly I'm glad that Republican candidates didn't attend or speak at this disgraceful, deceptive, self-serving, agenda motivating event. I guess they knew that they couldn't fool most people.

biblical quotes
Hilary knows that very few if any person can recall a passage from the bible while listening to a speech.After all was said and done they could look up her quotes and say she was wrong.She should be known as Slick Hilly

Hillary
I call her "Hellery Goddam Clinton" because she made a pact with the devil. she calls it marriage vows.

Hilary's Home Run For Satan?
What about "thou shalt not murder" and its undeniable application to abortion?

Sorry, but a person's stand on abortion IS a clear, unmistakable indication of one's acceptance of Jesus. Hilary is solidly pro-abortion which is to say 'pro-murder'.

Hilary's quotation of the Bible is not unexpected. Satan did the same in tempting Jesus. Her ability to quote Scripture is not surprising. Satan knows the Bible-and knows it better than >90% of Christians-and he believes it too-just not for him.

As to government, never once did Jesus command us to let government 'help us' in providing for the needy. He commanded us specifically to do this on our own.

Purpose?
Would there even be an article here if Hillary would have simply made a "hot air" political speech without quoting scripture?

Hillary and Rick Warren,great couple.
The deal with Rick Warren's church is that he is not traditionally conservative,nor is his goal to convert people,he is more concerned with the social symptoms of sin,rather than the root.
I confess that I almost fell for his feel good message,but when I dissected his faith I inmediately moved away from any of his junk, same as Joel Olsteen,if The Lord was preaching today no doubt they d preach against Him, to them the Gospel is just a tool to do a work that was never the ultimate purpose of christianity... I frankly tire of these people blaspheming The Lord s work,words and chose to ignore His message,that means all kool-aid preachers too,politicians as H.C. too.

One comment on Hillary...
Galatians 5:19-21 (New International Version)
New International Version (NIV)
Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984 by International Bible Society
Galations 5:

19 The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

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