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Wednesday, October 31, 2007
Paul  Edwards :: Townhall.com Columnist
The Coming U.S. Drought (Is Here)
by Paul Edwards
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Joel Belz, in the current issue of World magazine, compiles a list of “big problems facing our society”—a list, perhaps, not unlike one you and I might compile:

When I asked a group of friends a few days ago what issues came first to their minds in terms of the big problems facing our society, the answers were not surprising. International terrorism; the war in Iraq; the scourge of abortion; the definition and disintegration of the family; genocide in Sudan; the monopoly of secularist, statist education; a dismaying electoral process in the United States—it didn't take this alert group long to assemble a list of nearly 20 gloomy things to think about.

Interestingly, Belz found the list lacking in at least one major issue of concern:

To all that darkness, I added still one other possible cause for dismay: drought in the United States. And I suggested that just one more year of shortfall in the usual rain patterns in big regions of the country might well lead to social disruptions of a kind that would eclipse our concern for the list we first assembled.

My guess is drought wasn’t on your list of gloomy things to think about, either.

Let’s be clear: we’re not talking about a potential drought, but a very real and present drought in highly populated areas of the United States. The governor of Georgia recently declared a state of emergency in 85 of the state’s 159 counties “where rainfall the last few years has been about half of what is normal.” The state of Georgia has now mandated a 10 percent reduction in water use by force of law with fines levied for non-compliance. And according to Belz, there have been “hints that the National Guard might have to be called out to enforce the conservation measures”—an indication of just how serious this drought has become.

The University of Nebraska at Lincoln monitors the severity of the drought in the country at their U.S. Drought Monitor website. The image map is alarming.

Belz observes:

We humans can drill deeper for oil and gas, and we can build higher kilowatt electrical generators, and we can print money to bluff our way through an economic crisis. We can even, when desperation sets in, send a surge of soldiers to Iraq. But no one has figured out a way yet to hook a fleet of 747s to a bank of rain clouds, tow them to Georgia, Arizona, or southern California's wildfires, and flip a switch to make those clouds drop their rain.

Widespread shortages of water—life sustaining water, which most of us take for granted every day—will quickly demonstrate how utterly dependent we humans are on a sovereign God. Our relative comfort as Americans, resulting from our dependence on our ability to master technology and make it our slave, has lulled us into believing that drought is a Third World problem, inflicted on humans less technologically advanced than us. We confidently think to ourselves, “It could never happen here.”

Our American arrogance is in for a very rude awakening by a God many believe is himself asleep. We will wake up to discover it was not our self-created technology sustaining us after all, but “the giver of every good and perfect gift” (James 1:17). When the One who “upholds all things by the word of his power” (Hebrews 1:3) closes the windows of heaven and restrains the rain, no amount of human ingenuity can reverse His will. “Our God is in the heavens: He hath done whatsoever He hath pleased” (Psalm 115:3).

Only God can make it rain, but you and I can be obedient to God’s command to be faithful stewards of the environmental resources he has put in our care. This is not a liberal or conservative issue. This is a spiritual issue, and nothing reveals the true nature of our spiritual nature better than how we treat that which is at our disposal. Do we care for it or do we abuse it? How we act will be determined by what we are at the very core of our beings. And what we are at the very core of our beings, apart from the grace of God in Christ Jesus, is depraved.

Our core corruption is vividly on display in our American propensity to avarice and wastefulness. Followers of the One of whom it is said, “All things were made by him, and without him was not anything made that was made,” (John 1:3) have a spiritual responsibility to stop wasting His natural resources, especially water.

One city in southern California has posted a list of water conservation tips which serve as guidelines for all of us.

Conserve now, while water is still flowing from your tap (and you don't need a government permit to drink it). It's responsible. It's reasonable. In fact, it should be an act of worship—not of the creation, but of the Creator "who gives us richly all things to enjoy” (1 Timothy 6:17).

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About The Author

Paul Edwards is the host of The Paul Edward Program and a pastor. His program is heard daily on WLQV in Detroit and on godandculture.com

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Popular Articles By Edwards

Barking up wrong tree
Those of us who live in the states dependent on the Colorado River are all too aware of the water situation, but most TH conservatives view conservation as some kind of liberal scam.
While they're insistent that Muslims are about to conquer the US and behead everyone, the water situation grows ever ominous.

Sorry. . .
There's no "drought" in Georgia.

Yes. We have had a "shortfall" in rain. In other words, we've received less rain than average in the last couple of years, but we're still receiving rain.

One of the contributors to the Dust Bowl was drought. Georgia is a long way from that.

Yes. We have a water shortage and things are looking dire. That's ~not~ because of drought. That's because our infrastructure... particularly our water supply... has ~NOT~ kept pace with our growth.

The government wants to blame it on "drought" to avoid taking responsibility for IT'S failure to ensure that our infrastructure has adequately grown with our population and needs.

utahnot
If your username means you're in Utah, would you be so kind as to post the results of your state's school voucher vote as soon as you hear them? This issue may be covered on local news before it hits the national. Many thanks.

fake drought
They have been releasing 3 million gallons downstream for over a year to protect mussels in South Georgia and Florida.

When we tried to slow the flow of water downstream due to decreased rainfall a judge ruled we couldn't deprive the mud clams of a drop of water.

The irony in this stupidity is that when Lake Lanier dries up the mussels will get NO WATER AT ALL.

Or maybe we should just let a large chunk of them die out, then maybe next time we can drink and flush our toilets in Atlanta.

Humans come before mussels, birds and any other creature you name.

You think it's bad now!
Just wait til the Dems add 100 million new Americans (without birth control, no less).

Water shortages, gas lines, high prices, climate change. Who cares? Our government will do what puts money in the pockets of the lawmakers. Just as they use fund accounting to hide trillions in undunded liabilities, they will welcome Amnestants with open arms.

Get ready for severe water rationing, especially if you live in the southwest. All public buildings: flush toilets only once per day. Showers, twice a week. It will be just like living in a third world nation. Coincidence, I think not.

I Kings 18…

Mr. Edwards, you stopped short of where I thought you were going. So I will go there for you.

You say that ‘our American arrogance is in for a very rude awakening by a God many believe is himself asleep.’ But we agree that God is not asleep. As you say, He ‘upholds all things by the word of his power.’

The cause of drought in Israel under Ahab is stated for us in I Kings 18:18…

‘You have forsaken the commandments of the LORD and have followed the Baals.’

After the miraculous display of God’s power on Mount Carmel the people fell on their faces; and they said, “The LORD, He is God! The LORD, He is God!” [I Kings 18:39]

The sovereign God would have our attention and He calls us as a nation to repentance.

We have heard much in recent days of what the natural man thinks of God, confirming how the Scripture views all men apart from grace. So, let’s hear what God says about Himself…

And the LORD passed before him and proclaimed, “The LORD, the LORD God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abounding in goodness and truth, keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, by no means clearing the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children and the children’s children to the third and the fourth generation.” [Exodus 34:6]

‘Let God be found true, though every man a liar.’

3rd World
"Our relative comfort as Americans, resulting from our dependence on our ability to master technology and make it our slave, has lulled us into believing that drought is a Third World problem, inflicted on humans less technologically advanced than us."

Since our politicians have decided that it is a good idea to allow the uncontrolled migration of the 3rd World into this country, should it surprise anyone that in more and more ways our country is starting to resemble the 3rd World? When we allow our population to grow like the 3rd World we had better expect the same problems they experience. Mr. Edwards how can you do an article about the drought and not even mention the fact that our out of control population growth through immigration (legal and illegal) is a major contributing factor?

Read Cadillac Desert
The natural state of N. Am. for most of its geologic history has been as a desert.

When John Smith and the Jamestown settlers arrived here in 1609, there was a drought. Potable water was a problem for early VA colonists. And tree rings now show there was about a decade's drought in the early 1600s.

The Anastasi Indians of the SW may have been driven off their land due to a 300-year drought between c. 1000-1300. The earth was warmer then, because the medieval "mini-ice age" had not started yet.

The US West has virtually no water, save the Colorado River, Wyoming and Montana are traditionally short of water, and the nearer West from Iowa to TX basically relies one aquifer that is not being renewed.

Welcome to the earth as it really is. Not a nice lady.

Read Cadillac Desert. It's what we're living in.

DavidM,...
"Humans come before mussels, birds and any other creature you name."

Agreed: when it is an immediate matter of life and death, power wins. However, the case in point is not so dire. It is simply a matter of inconvenience for the humans. In such cases, survival of a species in the wild should trump human convenience. There is just too much of the natural world which is being destroyed by human greed and unfettered procreation.

"The irony in this stupidity is that when Lake Lanier dries up the mussels will get NO WATER AT ALL."

The stupidity is that in spite of knowledge of the environmental laws, the authorities did nothing to curb demand on the resource. Not releasing the water would only reduce incentives for conservation, thus depletion would merely be slightly deferred.

Sammy,
You're dead right about 3rd world-like population growth. Edwards' article makes much of God when in my opinion He has very little to do with it. Rather, as others have pointed out, what we call "drought" is in fact a natural feature of the climate, if one looks over decades and centuries.

The nub of the problem is population growth. Every species has the tendency to breed until there is balance between birth and death due to starvation, disease and other deprivations. For example, kangaroos in Australia will breed at a rapid rate in the rare good years, only to die off in the following (inevitably bad) year. Most species on the planet seem to be in this sort of balance.

The exception is our species which, bringing its intelligence to bear on learning how to exploit more and more resources, has managed to avoid the dreaded Malthusian equilibrium.

In some places, the limit is being approached, and the limit is water. Just so much falls from the sky. Increasing population can be sustained only if each individual uses less.

ValiantForTruth,...
Your bible tells us to "go forth and multiply" but omits the important information about when to *stop* multiplying. Maybe you know when to say "when". Is it when we can physically fit no more of us on this little planet? Will that be when we have slashed and burned the last hectare of rainforest, and dehydrated the last mussel to provide another drop of water for the bath?

Boiling Frogs
I am glad that someone is talking about this issue. Up until last week we had had only 3 periods of rain since the spring. To those of you who say that there is no drought, I don't know what else I would call it. I am in one of those regions that is the same color as Atlanta on the drought map. It is most likely true that Atlanta has mismanaged the infrastructure and the courts have got involved with Lake Lanier.

It's too bad that the courts do not recognize the eco-idiots are not after "helping" the muscles, they are after getting rid of the dams in their entirety. Releasing water for the muscles is only a small step in their "boiling frog" syndrome of eco-terrorism. Perhaps a dry Lake Lanier is what is needed to wake the public up to the real agenda of these idiots.

But the real story is NOT being reported on this issue. This is nothing more than a cycle that repeats itself on about a 7 year cycle. It is due to the el Nino/la Nina cycle in the Pacific Ocean. Listen to the eco-idiots and they will tell you it is due to AGW, or the new phrase, "climate change".

http://www.noaanews.noaa.gov/stories2007/20071009_outlook.h tml

Uh, can I point out an OBVIOUS FACT?
Atlanta sits on the edge of a tremendous amount of water - the Atlantic ocean. I know there are ways to cheaply distill potable water from seawater. WHY are they NOT doing so?

Uh, can I point out an OBVIOUS FACT?
Atlanta sits on the edge of a tremendous amount of water - the Atlantic ocean. I know there are ways to cheaply distill potable water from seawater. WHY are they NOT doing so?

Well, Now
There are no ways to distill water from sea water as cheap as simply pumping it out of the ground with deep wells that go down to the aquifer.

A typical desalination plant uses two commodities in mass quantities. One is electricity and the other is steam. Both must be generated using some energy source. All of that however is a moot point as ANY new method of producing water will be fought by the eco-idiots. You want to drill a well down to the aquifer? Every State in the union now has limitations and permits that must be obtained to do that. If you are something like a major company or a municipality you can expect to be harassed by the eco-idiots at every step. I am familiar with this one having been involved in a project to sink a large deep well and being limited in the total amount of water that could be pumped per month AFTER it was built.

And build a power plant to provide electricity and steam for a desalination plant? LOL, you can expect at least 10 years of fighting the eco-idiots and the government. And that is for the land part. Then you can fight the eco-idiots who want to argue about discharge of concentrated brine to the ocean.

Sinners in the hands of an angry God
There is no question that the US is being punished - and deservedly so - for its abortions, its homosexuality and many other perversions and immoralities in its war against Almighty God.

But please don't talk to me about how I need to conserve water at my water tap.

Note in the short 4 minute video below (especially the first 2-1/2 minutes) how a "water canal", rinsing and "water extrusion" are all used in processing ... potato chips.

Then try to tell me why I need to reduce showers or toilet use.

"Our American propensity to avarice and wastefulness" is nowhere better put on display than in this video (although that's not the video's purpose).

Given the alternatives of no water and no potato chips, I'll easily skip the potato chips. And I'll do likewise for any similar wasteful and frivolous production brought to my attention as well.

THAT'S my contribution to water conservation. Just don't pretend that the "water flowing from your tap" is somehow the cause of the problem.

-

How They Make potato Chips

http://youtube.com/watch?v=ho-Az4mhaXY

Patrick
Yes, it is funny that the "average Joe citizen" is always the one that is punished for water usage. The idiots in congress pass laws at the behest of the eco-idiots that require low volume flush toilets and yet usage by the average citizen does not even show up on the charts.

The link below takes you to the USGA study for 2000 on water use in the U.S. The largest use is "once through cooling" at power plants. That however, is a misleading "use" as the water is returned right back where itr came from, although it will be warmer than it was before. It is still available to be used for other purposes.

One other thing that I find funny is the use of "cooling towers" at power plants. These were mandated in the late 70s and early 80s by the eco-idiots to reduce impact on the environment due to "thermal pollution". Looking at the study what it shows is that they greatly increase the actual use of water because of evaporation in the tower.

http://pubs.usgs.gov/circ/2004/circ1268/htdocs/text-referen ces.html

voluntary conservation
My late grandparents, who were married during the Depression and always had an ethic of frugality and moderation, voluntarily conserved water even before the local government in northern CA mandated it. This led to some hardship when they were required to reduce their previous usage by 25% or so. Lesson learned: I'm going to use MORE, so when the government mandates cutbacks, I'll still be comfy. J/K

Vic
Here's a solution from Oz to us average Joe Citizens watering our lawns that even Congress hasn't yet thought up.

Give 'em time, though, and they'll think of a way to subsidize it ...

http://www.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSSYD21064820071 101?feedType=RSS&feedName=worldNews&rpc=22&sp=true

Patrick
That just shows how things can get out of hand real quick.

caetanofan2

Yes, I ran into that back in the 70s when I was in CA. Ran into something similar with the EPA in reduction of airborne particulates in discharges here.

If you were responsible already you were punished by the Gov because, regardless of what you were discharging you had to reduce it by a certain percentage. Everyone knows (or at least I hope they do) that the cost of reducing pollution increases exponentially as the amounts in the effluent get smaller. Likewise, the hardship in decreasing water usage gets increasingly bad the lower you go.

What these irrational government policies do is assure that people will NOT attempt to conserve at all until told to do so by the government.

Waste
Everything factors. We've doubled our population in the last 50 years from 150 million to 300 million. And, if we enforced the border beginning today, we are projected to grow to 460 million in the next 25. Then, we have the fact that in a state like California, 90% of the water goes to agriculture, which pays less than 5% of what the urban dwellers pay. And of that, 2/3's go for low revenue and unnecessary crops such as rice and alfalfa. This is a pattern that gets repeated across the country. Water rights in much of the West have become more valuable than the land. Then, we have waste. A lot of it. And I imagine most of us are guilty. Does anyone really know how much water that lawn requires (which is where most municipal water goes)? Do we really have to have all of that property planted in lawns? Could we live with 1/2 the lawn. Of course. Could we cut subsidized water to low revenue and unnecessary crops such as rice? Of course. Will we? If we have to.

This same pattern exists with oil. We fund Chavez, Iran and Russia with our use. We could reduce it with very little pain - but we don't. Then we complain about their meddling. Does anyone seriously dispute that with 24% of the worlds consumption, that a reduction in consumption would not put a more serious crimp in the lifestyle of those single product economies than all the diplomatic jaw boning that we seem to do? I doubt it.

There isn't one
First, there hasn't been lack of rainfall the last few years in Georgia. It has been lack of rainfall this year. Rainfall has been 16 inches in the north Georgia area less than you'd get in a normal year. And with an expected La Nina this winter, the prediction is for a warmer and drier winter and early spring when Georgia gets most of its rainfall.

The problem is the idiots at the Corps of Engineers and US Fish and Wildlife Service that forces the release of billions of gallons of water almost daily so that downstream from Lake Lanier (the main water source for the Atlanta region) produces 5000 cfs downstream to protect two species of freshwater mussels--the fat three ridge and the purple bankclimber as well as the gulf sturgeon and to provide enough water for a small coal fired power plant that produces only 85 megawatts of power.

The Corps is sending twice as much water out of the lake than comes in and at one point this year is was 38 times. Does anyone here miss the Carolina Parakeet, the Passenger Pigeon or the Vegas Valley Leopard Frog? Me either. Would anyone here miss the three fat ridge or purple bank climber? Me either.

It is madness to be sending out more water from the lake than is coming in.

The Corps (the same fools that brought you Katrina) claim there is almost a year of supply in Lanier at the current rate of release, Georgia claims it is 81 days.


Calling Georgia's . . .
"below average" rainfall a drought is like calling farmers' "below average" yields a famine.

When Georgia experiences NO rainfall for an extended period of time (ie: months), THEN let's talk about drought.

In the meantime, let's identify the REAL problem so that we can begin to address it. Georgia is experiencing a water supply shortage.

Call it what it is -- a water supply shortage. The Army Corps of Engineers is only part of the problem.

The major problem is that the governments of Georgia (state and some local) sat on their a5$es and did ~nothing~ to expand the water supply in conjunction with our population growth.

Floods here, drought there
Did you ever notice that when someone is talking about the drought, they don't mention the flood taking place in another part of the country?

I know it doesn't help the people who live in either region, but I just wish there was some way to count the rain drops, or the acre-feet of rain that fell somewhere on the USA, and then count the acre-feet of rain that did not fall elsewhere.

I wonder, did the number of raindrops that fell on the US the past five years, equal the raindrops that fell on the US in the previous five years.

The story is told that the amount of water on the world has not changed since creation, but the clouds which carry the rain, don't always travel in the same pattern.

I know this doesn't help people whose shoes are dry, or those whose belt buckle is wet, but it's just a thought.


Conservation? Try the Free Market
Whenever I see plans and cries for conservation, I suspect a government-delivered or controlled commodity that is being artificially removed from the laws of supply and demand.

I don't know how the situation works in Georgia, but in every place I've ever lived, water is delivered by municipal governments. Allow water to be provided by a private company and the laws of supply and demand will take care of shortages. Which is easier to do? Create a complicated conservation, monitoring, and enforcement regime or raise the price of water and watch every consumer reduce their use voluntarily?

Did I miss anything?
I just got back from starting my sprinklers. I had to put in new seed over the place where I had my pool that I just covered up.

Vic,...
You opine "Yes, it is funny that the "average Joe citizen" is always the one that is punished for water usage. The idiots in congress pass laws at the behest of the eco-idiots that require low volume flush toilets and yet usage by the average citizen does not even show up on the charts."

Naturally you are entitled to your opinion that conservationists are a bunch of idiots, however I would say that they have a lot less say than the farm and industrial lobbyists, who push in the opposite direction. Conservationists are really a forlorn and feeble counterbalance to the mindless population-growth-at-any-cost mentality of our so-called leaders.

In any case, your use of the term "punished" is absurd. I don't know anyone (apart from a few grizzling TH posters) who finds the very few conservation mandates to have been punitive. Sure, I grumble about low-flow showers etc., but it is not exactly getting flogged, is it?


Famine
Liberty First:

We had above average rain last year didn't we? And this spring was pretty wet too. We are down 16 inches yes, but the problems are 1) The idiotic Corps and USFWS and 2) every government from Hall County to Griffin and every place in between approving any development that comes down the pike which for one replaces tree cover with roofs, concrete and other hard surfaces which robs water from recharging the aquafer and more and two adds more people with 1/4 and 1/2 and one acre fields of bermuda grass which they have to water almost daily.

If metro Atlanta did what was done in Southern Nevada, the creation of a regional water resources board and paid people to replace sod with xeriscape and become smarter with development by not approving ever rezoning application that comes down the pike, Georgia would be much better off. And it is not just water, the roads, schools are just a screwed up. Drive by an elementry school in say Cherokee or Forsyth sometime--they look like a trailer park and any major road in the region become parking lots during rush hour.

There is no planning and as long as money from developers and tax revenue from strip malls continue, the people elected to run this place don't care.

All of Georgia isn't hell, just the part known as metro Atlanta which basically runs from Alabama to Athens and from just outside Macon to the foothills of the north Georgia mountains.

Oh--letting the price of water rise once the consumer reached a certain level would be a good idea too. Let him decide if he wanted to let his Bermuda turn brown or pay 10x the price, but that will never happen either.




Water Shortage Issue!
Our country is facing a critical point with the water shortages throughout. One point that I would like to bring up is the fact that our country is wasting "BILLIONS" of gallons of water each day on the "MILLIONS" of illegal aliens in this country.
Think about this; if we deported the claimed number of 12 million illegal aliens out of this country we could save 60 billion gallons of water each day.
What is our government doing to help preserve our country and its "LEGAL" citizens?

Akagi,
"Does anyone here miss the Carolina Parakeet, the Passenger Pigeon or the Vegas Valley Leopard Frog? Me either. Would anyone here miss the three fat ridge or purple bank climber? Me either."

Uh... I'd miss them. I miss anything that is wantonly destroyed by vandals, thugs or knuckleheads, whether it is the burning of a library, or the crushing of a species.

Akagi, you may not give a hoot for the billions of humans which will follow you into this world, but if even one in a million of them takes an interest in leopard frogs, what right do you and your cohorts have to deprive them of that knowledge simply because to do otherwise would be "inconvenient", or because you simply don't give a stuff?

If you regret none of the thousands of species which have been lost forever, mostly to satisfy the basest of human appetites, then I guess you'd like to burn a few libraries, too.

Vegas Valley Leopard Frog
Is extinct and has been since the 1940s. The last one was sighted in 1942. The Carolina Paraket and Passenger Pigeon are also extinct.

Has their vanishing impacted you in any way? If the fat three ridge or purple bank climber vanish, mollasks you've never even seen, how will it impact you. Can we say not at all?

And no, I don't regret the fate of the Vegas Valley Leopard Frog one bit. Also, since we are sending more water down than the river than enters the system--at one point 38 times--how do we know they were meant to go extinct?

Would you have saved Deinonychus or Velociraptor too? How about the red fire ant? Should we not poison the nasty little things?

Sorry, no tears from me if the little shelled creatures vanish..I wonder what they taste like and are they good with wasabi?


thickasabrick
You obviously have not lived in CA with water rationing and the "orifice" in your water line.

thickasabrick
BTW;

The so-called conservationists have ruined conservation. The current theory for any landowner is shoot, shovel, and shutup when any of these so-called endangered species show up.

aquifers and other stuff
If you haven't been following the state of Aquifers in the west heres a breif look. The Ogalalla aquifer in western Kansas and eastern Colorado that supports all that irrigated farmland in that part of the world is running dry. And it was predicted to run dry in one of my college classes 20 years ago. Not enough replacement water for what is drawn out. Same is happening in Arizona, where their aquifers are called fossil water that came from ancient wetter weather regimes in that part of the world. We are headed for a water crises and I doubt the lord above can do much about it. We are over populated and use more water than is raining down. Do we dare mention climate change. WAAY back in the 80's the scientists warned that the first stages of climate change would be more severe weather pattern, including droughts, floods, more severe storms. I do believe it is here and god had nothing to do with it. He's probably kicking the clouds around muttering I gave them a brain and the ability to solve problems. What the heck are these idiots doing to my creation!

thickasabrick
99.99% of all species on this planet were DEAD and EXTINCT before man came along.

Who are YOU to say no species should ever die out? Is this some new law only certain people know about? If you or anyone else want to protect the purple bank climber, go build a reserve.

What if beavers had dammed up the river and the mussels had died? Why is this so different than humans doing it?


Water Problems
We have a severe water shortage problem surfacing in Colorado. Denver’s southern suburbs must spend $1 billion by 2020 to wean themselves from the Ogalala Acquifer which is slowly being pumped dry by the proliferation of uncontrolled growth. The water source for this growth has been the drilling of deep wells. Some of the communities are talking about increasing tap fees which average $25,000, raising the water rates and taxes to build new water-recycling plants and lay pipelines to transfer water from farming communities (stealing their agricultural water). Their drinking water will likely come from recycled sources. However there has been no letup in the uncontrolled growth and the residents will be paying the piper very shortly.
An ole Korean War Vet (gittin’ older)

Akagi,...
You ask "Has their vanishing impacted you in any way? If the fat three ridge or purple bank climber vanish, mollasks you've never even seen, how will it impact you. Can we say not at all?"

We can say it, but it would be lying. It has impacted me mostly because their loss means that I, and my fellow human beings, will not be able to know everything about them, should any of us so desire to acquire that knowledge.

Less importantly, those humble molluscs which you are so willing to trample underfoot produce an antibiotic which will one day save us from a life-threatening staph infection.

You say "How do I know that"? Well I ask you "How do you know that it is *not* so?"

thickasabric
How do you know those evil mollusks want develop into flesh eating protazoa and take over the world.

Like I said, you eco-idiots have ruined the conservation movement.

Vic,...
"The so-called conservationists have ruined conservation. The current theory for any landowner is shoot, shovel, and shutup when any of these so-called endangered species show up."

I think you're putting the cart before the horse.

No species can survive without a place to live. It is not just shooting which kills the lesser polka-dotted ground squirrel (or whatever). It is the arrogation of all land for the convenience of humans which plays a larger role in their demise.

If a species could co-exist with whatever use we put the land to, then it would not be put on the endangered list in the first place. Otherwise, it is doomed whether or not the "landowners" take pot shots at them. The species is endangered because it can't live with human land use, not by virtue of it being put on any "endangered list".

Evil mollusks
"How do you know those evil mollusks want develop into flesh eating protazoa and take over the world.

Like I said, you eco-idiots have ruined the conservation movement."

I really don't think I'm an idiot. I really do try to think these things through rationally, and I come to the conclusion that wanton destruction of species -- this is rarely a matter of survival, but simply convenience and greed -- is something inimical to the rational spirit of man.

If I am wrong, please point out a species other than a parasite that we had to destroy for survival (rather than simply to expand our number or satisfy our appetites).

Joking aside, I really think there's more chance of benefiting from these shellfish than having them become our (single-celled?) masters.

DavidM,...
>>> "99.99% of all species on this planet were DEAD and EXTINCT before man came along."

So we should strive for 99.9999%, eh?

>>> "Who are YOU to say no species should ever die out? Is this some new law only certain people know about? If you or anyone else want to protect the purple bank climber, go build a reserve."

Did I say that? No, I said don't *wantonly* trash the planet. Just because the library at Alexandria burned down, doesn't mean you should burn down your local public library because it pleases you.

>>> "What if beavers had dammed up the river and the mussels had died? Why is this so different than humans doing it?"

It's the difference between murdering someone, and witnessing an accident. If you have trouble seeing this distinction, then I hope you don't get jury duty.

SSS
The conservation movement has been ruined by illogical and non-scientific stances brought on by people who have only destruction of our way of life as a goal. The above referenced issue with the muscles is a good example. In every other application that I have seen, dam and impoundment operators are required by LAW to maintain the outflow within a certain range of the inflow, except in period of emergency where the dam itself is in jeopardy. Here we have a court case, which some idiot had to bring that is causing the Lake Lanier dam operator to create an excessive outflow in order to support an obscure mollusk. While this is being done it endangers a city of millions of people. This is not an act of rational thinking.

Other examples include farmers who have lost their farms over Kangaroo Rats and land owners who have lost their forests over spotted owls. In almost ALL of these cases these landowners have not been compensated. So if you are a landowner who has a forest that will be ready for thinning in a few years and you spot the “next woodpecker of oblivion” what are your actions?

A. Shoot the odious animals that will cost you millions. B. Call the loca branch of the eco-idiots and report an important find while you go broke C. Beg the government for a permit to use your own land.

What is the rational person going to do.....shoot, shovel, and shutup.

ogalala aquifer
Willie you hit on the head. Too many people and we are reproducing like rabbits. We're bound hit the wall sometime. Add to your Denver problems the loss of the snow pack that melts and feeds the colorado river. As it warms that snow is going bye bye. That should scare the livin daylights out of folks living in the desert.

Not enough water. Not enough farmland to grow the food to feed them and on it goes. Hang on its going to be a rough ride.

Vic,...
I agree that many environmental laws have been ill-considered, and many conservationists are air-headed hippies (let's call them "greenies" to make a useful distinction) especially the ones who are opposed to any form of hunting or harvesting. In fact, hunting is one of the surest ways to preserve an ecosystem provided there is some oversight, and fees are put to good use.

However, the point you raise about landowners bearing the brunt of the environmental law is an illustration of punishment of the few for the collective sins of the many. The sin is not that the general population has become a bunch of greenies, but that development of land has been unfettered by the slightest notion of conservation. Just look at the central valley of CA. Almost every square inch of land has been divvied up for crops and, more recently, tract housing as our numbers have exploded. Many species that used to live in the valley can not survive in this largely treeless expanse.

It is regrettable that those who legally took possession of their property find themselves financially less well-off than they might have expected, however the solution for that is to provide fair compensation rather than abandoning endangered species to their destruction.

Like you, I used to be ardently anti-conservation and pro-capitalism. However I noticed more and more that our "leaders" cannot grasp the bull by the horns and tackle our overpopulation problem. By no means have I become a leftist, however an objective eye cast over capitalism can discern some fundamental flaws in that system. (contd...)

The Biggest Problem
"There is a time for everything. The time is now to unveil the apocalyptic stealth beast that is already here but still unseen by many.
This is serious, a matter of life or death. For, unless we know who the beast is, we could mindlessly receive its “mark” which is a one way ticket to the eternal disaster."

Above is a quote from the article “Behold, 666 is here”. Details are available at
http://www.canadafreepress.com/2007/chow051007.htm

contd...
One flaw in capitalism is that it does not handle the case where individual actions are relatively harmless, but are collectively harmful to people removed in space (like next country) or time (like next generation). For example, it is harmless for you to catch a fish and sell it for a profit, but if everyone goes fishing then the waterhole is soon fished out. Once the fish are gone, no market force is necessarily going to put them back out of some sense of guilt for the plight of the next generation. The future generation, on the other hand, can apply no market forces to the people who caused the problem in the first place.

Also, conventional economic theory is not capable of balancing the books for allocation of finite resources. For example, an inhabited island is found to be made of guano, so the inhabitants are relocated to a nearby island, and the island is mined until it lies below sea level. Sure, people got rich, everyone had a full belly from the bumper crops, and nobody got hurt. Today, that is. Tomorrow, after the rich people's trinkets have rusted, bellies are empty again, and the poor suckers who sold their island have nowhere to really call home, one has to ask was that the best use of the land?

Capitalists rightly point out that the system has served mankind the best of any, however nobody ever seems to ask if we actually need to exploit the earth any more than we already do. I have a big house now and all sorts of stuff which I never had before, but I am no happier than when I had my little 15 square house and a rusty Chrysler. Capitalism is, like fire, a good servant and a lousy master.

Reply to thickasabrick
I agree with your points about the need to conserve natural resources. However, you make the mistake of ascribing the cause to an economic system. The true cause is the human nature's affinity for selfishness. This transcends economic theory. By your argument, China or the Former Soviet Union would be an ecological paradise, instead of ticking, toxic time bombs. Granted, China has moved away from "pure" communism toward some quasi fascist system.

Your island example is just exploitation of an indigenous population and their private property by some powerful entity that was likely aided by a government agent. Change the island to the area about to be flooded by the Three Gorges Dam project and you get my point.

In any case, the good times are likely to be coming to an end. Whether it is "peak oil" or ground water contamination, we will be facing tough times down the road. Most Americans lack survival skills and do little to prepare. I intend to save enough from my current career to build a sustainable homestead in the hinterlands and raise my kids there.

I suggest reading "Crunchy Cons" and "Deep Economy."
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