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Friday, May 22, 2009
Pat Buchanan :: Townhall.com Columnist
Did Bibi Box Obama in?
by Pat Buchanan
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Was the Copenhagen Global Warming Summit Walk-Out a Win for the U.S.?


On Sept. 20, 2002, as the War Party was beating the drum for preventive war on Iraq, lest we wake up to "a mushroom cloud over an American city," The Wall Street Journal introduced an eminent voice to confirm that, yes, Saddam was driving straight for an atomic bomb.

"This is a dictator who is ... feverishly trying to acquire nuclear weapons," wrote Bibi Netanyahu, former prime minister of Israel.

"Saddam's nuclear program has changed. He no longer needs one large reactor to produce the deadly material necessary for atomic bombs. He can produce it in centrifuges the size of washing machines that can be hidden throughout the country -- and Iraq is a very big country. Even free and unfettered inspections will not uncover these portable manufacturing sites of mass death. ...

"(I)f action is not taken now, we will all be threatened by a much greater peril ... (for) no gas mask and no vaccine can protect against nuclear weapons."

This was horse manure of a high grade, as high as that which Richard Perle deposited on the podium of the Foreign Policy Research Institute a year earlier, when he informed a stunned audience that Saddam "is busily at work on a nuclear weapon."

Perle had it straight from Saddam's "Bomb Maker," "a man named Kadir Hamza." Hamza, said Perle, told him that after the Osirak reactor was destroyed by Israel in 1981, Saddam "began to build uranium enrichment facilities, many facilities, and we built 400 of them, and they're all over the country. Some of them look like farmhouses, some of them look like classrooms, some of them look like warehouses. You'll never find them. They don't turn out much, but every day they turn out a little bit of nuclear materials."

"So," Perle warned his riveted audience, "it's simply a matter of time before he acquires nuclear weapons."

Washing-machine centrifuges in uranium enrichment facilities disguised as barns and chicken coops! And Americans believed it. And so we were stampeded into war against a nation that did not threaten or attack us, to strip it of weapons it did not even have.

That war has cost 4,500 American dead and 35,000 wounded. It has brought death to perhaps a hundred thousand Iraqis. Four million people have been driven from their homes, 2 million, including half the Christians, into exile. Hundreds of thousands of fatherless Iraqi children are being raised by women widowed by that war.

Undaunted, the War Party has a new war planned for us.

Target: Tehran. And Obama may just have boxed himself in.

In return for Bibi's willingness to talk to the Palestinians, Obama agreed to a December deadline for progress in talks with Iran. If the talks are not fruitful by then, America will step on the escalator.

"I've been very clear that I don't take any options off the table with respect to Iran," said the president.

Bibi got what he came for.

By setting a six-month deadline, Obama has given an incentive to Israel, AIPAC, the neocons and even al-Qaida, which wants Shia Iran bombed back to the stone age, to provoke collisions with Iran, until December, then demand that Obama keep his word, suspend talks, impose severe sanctions and start us on the escalator to war.

And, already, the incidents are multiplying.

Iran's supreme leader, the Ayatollah Khamenei, has charged the United States with complicity in cross-border attacks from Kurdistan. Israel threatens Iran almost daily and practices bombing runs to Greece and Gibraltar. Iran says it can destroy Israel and tests a missile that can hit that nation.

Israel claims Iran is trucking weapons into Gaza via Sudan. But how the trucks get through Egypt, cross the Red Sea and Sinai, then pass through Israeli and Egyptian checkpoints is unexplained.

Hillary Clinton yesterday called an Iranian nuclear capability an "extraordinary threat" and said the U.S. goal is "to persuade the Iranian regime that they will actually be less secure if they proceed with their nuclear weapons program."

Query: What nuclear weapons program?

According to the National Intelligence Estimate of 2007, Iran halted its weapons program in 2003. Nor are there any reports of the diversion of Iran's industrial-grade uranium from Natanz or evidence of any secret centrifuge cascade to enrich it to weapons grade.

According to the Los Angeles Times, the EastWest Institute of Russian and U.S. scientists says Tehran is "at least six years away from building a deliverable nuclear weapon," and a Rand Corp. study says that Iran's "ability to wreak havoc in the Middle East through surrogates is exaggerated."

Iran represents no threat to the United States to justify a war.

And as Korea finished Harry Truman, Vietnam finished LBJ, and Iraq finished the Bush Republicans, war with Iran would make Barack -- with the situations in Afghanistan, Pakistan and Iraq all deteriorating -- a one-term president.

Barack had best understand. The crowd manipulating him into war with Iran has in mind, first, obliterating Iran; second, getting rid of him.

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About The Author
Pat Buchanan is a founding editor of The American Conservative magazine, and the author of many books including State of Emergency: The Third World Invasion and Conquest of America .
 
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Noble Goals
"Barack had best understand. The crowd manipulating him into war with Iran has in mind, first, obliterating Iran; second, getting rid of him."

Two noble goals. What's the problem uncle Paddy, so-called "Mr. Conservative"?

Who's right?
Pat Buchanan was right about Iraq.

I have no reason to believe he is wrong about Iran.

Pat


This is, perhaps, the stupidest article I have read in years.


Why does your antisemitism go clear to the bone?

Did some Jewish person beat you up one time?

Did the same person get a better grade on a test than you?

Are you one of the Hitler Youth Corps?

Iran's ambitions may start the final war.

If that happens, this world will see a thousand years of dark ages for the few left alive.


So Pat noticed this as well?
I thought I was the only one. Obama has until the end of the year to get diplomacy to work, and then one of the five most powerful air forces in the world is going to destroy Iran's buried nuclear weapons facility. Israel would be fully justified in nuking them into oblivion in response to Iran's unconditional, oft-spoken promise that it will annhiliate Israel. The Iranian government really needs to be brought to the point that they can never hurt anyone ever again.

Israel should Give Ignoring the President a Chance!

Oh and one more thing.
I want the Palestinian state to be established on the White House lawn so that Washington can walk a mile in Israel's shoes and learn what daily suicide bombings in malls, nightclubs, schools, buses, churches and universities are like. When 1/3000 of us have been blown up by screaming Arab suicide bombers, then we can make demands of Israel.

Did Bibi Box Obama in
When Jews are involved, Buchanan loses his ability think straight. Perhaps Israel can find a way to take out Iran and Buchanan. Add the Devil and it would be a Trifecta.

nut job
Did a jew rape someone in your family?

Amazing
The slimy little terrorist, Achminejad, spouts anti-Semitic hate, denies the Holocaust occurred, proposes to wipe the state of Israel off the face of the earth,and Israel is to do nothing in response?

The Iranian dog needs to be de-fanged. Israel has the tools, the know-how and the will.And why should we be involved in such a war? Let the Israelis handle it. They seem to have a vested interest in what their ant-Semitic neighbors are involved in. Perhaps they will be well-disposed to handle their own affairs with the U.S. sitting back in the wings.

The possibility that it will cause oBUMa Shortbus to be a one-termer in the White House is just an added bonus.

Barack had best understand
"Barack had best understand. The crowd manipulating him into war with Iran has in mind, first, obliterating Iran; second, getting rid of him."

So that is a problem, because...?

I Don't Think Pat Hates Jews ....
I think Pat is indifferent to the fate of Israel and speaks to that end. I think that Obama shares that viewpoint. Neither of them recognize any special relationship. Obama fakes concern. Pat doesn't.

WHAT ?
" ...or evidence of any secret centrifuge cascade to enrich it to weapons grade. "
umm, it's no longer secret, is that what you mean Patty ?
Yeah, they have a wadload of centrifuge cascades, but supposedly "no secret ones anymore because they admitted they had the secret ones running like mad while they denie they existed" ?
Is that what you meant Patty ?
You made it sound like they don't even have any centrifuges at all - ZERO is the number you spewed forth.
Nice try Patty.
You're a LIAR.

Pat kneejerk anti-Israel
But on the other hand, I'm sure he is right that the wily experienced Bibi schooled the rookie and sold him the Brooklyn bridge to boot.

And I agree wholeheartedly with Pat that the invasion of Iraq was an unnecessary act of chest-beating by the neo-cons, the Empire wannabes. There's a reason we call it the department of Defense, not Offense.

a couple of points.
Eventually one of the opponents of Buchanans article will stop with the ad hominem attacks and actually address what he said. Well maybe not, since most of what Buchanan said is factual material that they can hardly answer.

There are two speculative points that should be noted. One is that Presidents who lauch war usually win reelection, see Bush, G.W. for example. The question is how one sells the war. And Americans like to be sold on wars that they engage in because we don't like to believe that we are killing people for no reason. That is, after all, how Bush sold the inane Iraq war. There is been no blowback from the escalation in Afghanistan. I would not assume that Obama couldn't sell a war with Iran.

On the other hand it is doubtful that Obama would do something as stupid as invading Iran. He is not Bush, and he is not surrounded by the kind of zealots who could delude themselves into thinking that invading Iraq was a good idea.

Obama is not going to want to officially take an invasion off the table. But he is also not likely to want to do something as stupid as actually invade.


inconvenient truths if you study closely
re:
Not everyone is Anti-Israel/Semitic because they don't champion their cause......

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Most Jews have OPPOSED the war in Iraq, yet the militant, Zionist, neoCON branch among them (Perle mentioned in the column, Wolfy, Feith, Abrams, Bolton, Libby, Wurmser) drove us into it, all then playing KEY roles in Dubya's administration. Dubya bragged about their influence to AIPAC after the early takeout of Saddam, which was NOT the real challenge.

When you point out this inconvenient fact, and that they had called for taking out Iraq as far back as 1996 (the PNAC), many bray reflexively, "änti-Semitism!"

Are the majority of Jews then anti-Semitic?!

These guys played Dubya and the NYT like a Stradivarius... they knew that when Judith Miller printed the false facts about WMD's etc., that Congress would fall in line too.

Their REAL goal for the war was to take out Iraq and get American bases there to protect Israel-- all excuses/rationales given (WMD's, nukes, establishing democracy, oil, it will be over quickly and easily, we will be greeted as liberators) were utter subterfuge. A good account about it all is a book by 2 Jews-- Hubris: The Inside Story of Spin, Scandal, and the Selling of the Iraq War.

Iraq had NOTHING to do with 9/11, though we were led to believe, and most Americans did believe, that they did. Saddam and Osama were opponents in the Arab world. He was a CHECK on Iran.

http://www.csmonitor.com/specials/neocon/spheresInfluence.h tml
http://www.codoh.info/zionweb/zionpgiraq.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_for_the_New_American_C entury

Media is Indifferent to Truth
So they are lying to us and when they are not they are incompetent.

The press is worse. They don't care what's true as long as you pay attention to them. That's what's going to kill us in the end.

missles
Let Ears go to iran and then have Israel get rid of it. Israel do not listen to BO he is an idiot living in a silly little world of ice cream and balloons. How disgusting.

Lets hope so
Is Israel concerned almost exclusively with it's own interests, at times to the detriment of the USA?
Is Buchanan appearing more & more anti-semetic?

Yes.

Isael is the same size as the county I'm writing this from, COUNTY, not COUNTRY.
They have beaten off Arab attacks 3 times, proxy Persian attacks twice. It's NOT a question of if, but only when, they get attacked again. If their enemies have nukes, they WILL use them.

Pat Buchanan shares a paradigm with Achmahdinajad, they are both end-timers.
Shi'a end timers have a rabid take on it though, they believe they can start the proccess.
Achmahdinajad has stated publicaly and repeatedly that he doesnt care if Iran is reduced to green glass as long is this starts a pan-Islamic jihad & the end of days.

wonder EXACTLY what Pat believes.

This is another example . . .
of the tail (israel) "wagging the dog" (United States).
Be careful what you say. AIPAC will use the old "antisemitism race card" against ANYONE who does not toe the zionist line. It seems that the jews mirror blacks in using the "race card" and name calling when their "point of view" cannot be substantiated.
There is much more freewheeling political discourse in israel than there is here in the USA.
How many "US military secrets" (and weapon systems) have been compromised by israel's way of "doing business"?
Remember the attack on the USS Liberty by israel and how OUR OWN PRESIDENT (LBJ) DENIED HELP for the USS Liberty. The subsequent "investigation" that absolved israel from any "blame" in the situation was an act of treason. With "friends" like israel . . .
Isarael WILL PROVOKE a situation that may very well be the start of WORLD WAR III.
What will obama do? Will he "side with the muslims" as he promised to do?

THE PALESTINIAN STATE OF MIND
It is now being reported that the meeting with Obama and Netanyahu at the White House on Tuesday went badly. That the two leaders were at loggerheads over the issue of Palestinian statehood with Netanyahu resisting Obama's plea that Israel freeze settlement building on the West Bank and restarting the peace process pursue a two state solution to end the conflict. This is what many of us feared: Israel and the US are now on a collision course........

P.B. is Stark Raving Nuts, vol. 3
Buchanan has always been more than a little wacky on the subject of Israel’s continued existence, but it now appears he’s gone completely bananas, crackers, and nuts.

So Iran doesn’t pose a threat to anyone? Maybe Pat needs to have it pointed out that once the mad mullahs eradicate the Jewish state, his beloved western Europe is next on the horizon. It’s approximately 800 miles via nuclear warhead from Iran to Israel. Vienna is about twice that distance away – roughly the same as a New York to Denver flight.

But don’t try to confuse him with facts. Buchanan, artfully cherry-picking his sources, insists that Tehran hasn’t the means to develop nukes, even if they had the desire, which I honestly think he doubts. That’s OK – Pat is still stuck in the mindset that Saddam wasn’t a threat, either. After all, who you gonna believe, someone who was on the inside in Iraq, or the world’s foremost anti-Semite who doesn’t wear a scraggly beard?

Anyway, there really isn’t anything new here from Pat, except that his overheated rhetoric has now shifted into overdrive.

BTW, passthesalt – you’ve been flagged. DON’T smear the Church. Your remark was way out of line.

reason is thrown out the window
re:
Eventually one of the opponents of Buchanan's article will stop with the ad hominem attacks and actually address what he said. Well maybe not, since most of what Buchanan said is factual material that they can hardly answer.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

...when one attempts to look at the M.E. without the obfuscating prism of the pro-Israeli perspective.

You are correct that facts are ignored for passionate, mindless reflex.

Never have so many been made to do so much for so few... Israel is a tiny tail wagging the biggest dog... there are times when we alone vote with Israel on a resolution in the U.N. when EVERY other nation votes the other way... in doing so, we alienate every ally for this special "älly." Hmmm.


Buchanan the Anti-Jew
hoodaticus and passthesalt I totally agree with you. Buchanan is an anti-jewish jackass. How long does a country have to be bullied and threatened with annhilation by another country before they are allowed to defend themselves? The government of Iran is like a rabid animal and needs to be destroyed. He says that Israel is threatening Iran and needs to stop but never says anything about Iran's threats against Israel. What hypocrasy.

it's time to put Pat out to pasture

Pat's been one big stone in Israel's shoe for decades.

And he continues with his nonsense.

It's time to retire Pat. You're making a big fool of yourself.

oracle is an imbecile
the reason we alienate every other country is there are 57 muzzie countries, and most of Europe is about to become a terrorist caliphate.

When has Israel threatened Iran?

Prism of Jewish zionists? In the USA and Israel, there's freedom of speech.

the Prism is from Arab countries who only produce propaganda, and nothing else. and if you disagree with their incessant anti-west diatribe, you have your head sliced off.

This is the side that Oracle defends?

Hmmm

Good Counter Points
I don't agree with Pat on this, but remember the source: a good conservative who reveres the Constitution. Compare this article with Suzanne Fields' flighty and naive column today comparing that BHO staged nonsense with Netanyahu with a "courtship," if you can believe that.

about free speech
re:
BTW, passthesalt – you’ve been flagged. DON’T smear the Church. Your remark was way out of line.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

And the motto of TH is, "where YOUR opinion counts"?

I am irreligious, but the Catholic Church has indubitably over time been hostile to Jews.

That noted, I believe that Pat B. simply opposes reflexive fealty to the Zionist/neoCON posture and questions their motivations in a necessary way, given that these parties (Wolfy, Perle, Feith) drove us into Iraq-- and took credit for same early on! Then they blamed Dubya for faulty delivery on what they had spawned.

Again, MOST Jews have opposed the war in Iraq, so it is vacuous ad hominem calumny prima facie to reflexively bray "änti-Semitism" because someone questions aggression toward Iraq-- and now Iran.

America needs peace ....
but how do we gain a peace that we can live with?

We can have peace if we agree to every demand placed on us. Of course, those demands will take away our freedoms, our integrity and our wealth. The peace attained would be a peace that is supported by constant threats. For example either America grants this or we will attack. That is not peace. It is subjugation!

The only road to true peace is the road that passes through ideology. Until the world is of one ideology there will be no peace. The vain attempt at a one world government is an attempt to advance a one world ideology. It will fail because it is a shallow ideology.

The best thing the USA can do is reconnect our government to the Constitution. This would shrink government. A small government will not have time to engage in support of one world government and peace would be more likely. I am not saying the USA causes world strife but 'national interest' seems to be a nebulous term that is never defined. In my opinion national interest pretty much exists within our borders.

With a small US government manipulations by crafty leaders from other countries would have no effect. It is time that we the people reassert our national interest of maximizing our life, liberty and our pursuit of happiness. And these pursuits do not include being drawn into every squabble between the nations of the world. Let them fight but let us live happy and prosperous lives. Eventually they will see the light.

reply to: bud
"When has Israel threatened Iran?"

It is well documented that Dubya stanched a prior plan for an Israeli attack on Iran (which Cheney and the neoCONS favored).

"Prism of Jewish zionists? In the USA and Israel, there's freedom of speech."

REALLY?!
Why then does your side here screech ad hominem invective such as this: "oracle is an imbecile"... rather than retort with facts? I have sourced MY perspectives.

re:
"the Prism is from Arab countries who only produce propaganda, and nothing else. and if you disagree with their incessant anti-west diatribe, you have your head sliced off"

I do NOT defend the Islamic side... BUT, I have EVERY right to question another wrong, ESPECIALLY when it involves IMMENSE expense and animus to America. The Arabs are not slicing my head off here-- but the Zionists would squelch my speech!


Worst article ever
If Buchanan had not asked whether Obama boxed himself in, I would have thought Obama wrote this. Buchanan is lost on this one, and I have lost my ability to listen to anything this man says again.

Hey Pat, how about taking Ahmedinejad at his word? If anyone is threatening anyone, it is Ahmadinajad threatening Israel and the United States.

I think Pat has just joined the crazies who ignore reality.

Reply to Oracle
I have EVERY right to say you are a nutcase. You may not think so but you do defend islam. And for your information if given the chance the arabs will slice your head off because they HATE you. They do not care if you defend them or not.

Oracle
Not only an imbecile, but a fool, too! One has to be sleeping ... or anti-semetic to not grasp the overwhelming animosity of the arab / iranian hatred of Israel, the constant threats, oh, and while we're "sourcing facts" [you laughable moron], the THREE WARS launched by these evil doers against Israel which has done nothing to provoke such wars! If you can't grasp that you are indeed a fool! "Ad hominem" ... nahhh, just FACTS gleaned from your pathetic postings!

RICKEY NELSON...THE SINGER
Had a song and there was a line that said
MY BUCKET HAS A HOLE IN IT. Well,as of this article and hereafter I think Pat's brain is that bucket!
Iraq and Iran are two different scenarios(sp)
period!
Elvis

Excellent points...
It's telling that the most hysterical, offensive, personally abusive (and factually incorrect) posts here are all from those seeking to attack PB. They also spin bloody war fantasies in "defense" of Israel.
It's fortunate that posters like Passthesalt, Bud, Might Makes Right, etc. are not actually trying to convince anyone -- just spray slime -- because they're so incompetent at it, with "friends" like them Israel needs no enemies.


to oracle
Loser argument after loser argument.
No zionist squelches your speech, and if you'll notice, Jews are the biggest critics of Israel. Because Jews strive for justice and truth and all the hallmarks of great societies.

You question the money sent to Israel while forgetting:
1) Israel has defended itself in five wars, and tens of thousands of terrorist attacks. How much money has the uSA spent defending itself from just 9-11?
2) israel is a world leader in technology, farming, the arts, the sciences. More patents are issued to Israelis per capita than any country on Earth. More Nobel Prizes are issued to israelis than any country on earth. These are innovations the whole world benefits from. What have the sand monkeys contributed?

If it weren't for all the wars and terrorism in Israel conducted by the Subhuman Arabs, Israel wouldn't need any dough because it would be trillions richer from tourism,

Take your Nazi head out of your butt.

RW
The only one "spinning bloody war fantasies" is Ahmadinejad. It's funny how that exits the minds of people who demonize Israel.

about the earlier snow job...

...which helped get us into Iraq, which 80% of Americans now consider to have been an arrant and profligate mistake.

http://www.slate.com/id/2095394/

All-in, our costs for that disingenuous neoCON stratagem could total $3 TRILLION!
But at least it has won us friends among the Islamics! Those new democracies (Hamas, Hisbollah) sure are warming up to us!

But hey, it is not like the ObaMessiah's agenda to revamp America by redistributing wealth will also cost a fortune that we do not have-- OOPS! Swell time to be spending a fortune in the M.E. where problems are perpetual.

Now why not TOTALLY ruin America for the interests of OTHERS by giving 12 million scamnesty-- so they can become 100 million net new mostly poor and largely ignorant and culturally disparate new citizens over the next 20 years.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/0 3/07/AR2008030702846.html
http://www.heritage.org/Research/Immigration/wm1076.cfm
http://www.heritage.org/Research/Immigration/bg1936.cfm

RW, feeble minded
You want facts?
1) If the Arabs stopped attacking Israel, there'd be peace tomorrow.
2) Israel is a world leader in just about everything. Technology, high tech, farming, Nobel prizes, patents, the arts, sciences
3) Israel would be quadrillionaires if they didn't have to waste so much dough on defending itself, and if there were peace, on tourism dollars.
4) Arabs lead the world in beheadings, propaganda, throwing POWS off of rooftops, spraying acid in girls' faces who go to school, rapes, honor killings, Holocaust denial, indolence, anger (I love Islamic Rage Boy on YOU TUBE), incest, pedophilia, bestiality, SHALL I GO ON?

As Israel goes, so does the USA. I say we send troops there, and billions more. I also say we must Nuke half the arab world, destroy Al Manar, Al Arabiya, Al Jazeera, Al Capone, all the madrasses around the world that the Saudis support, and kick the muzzies out of Europe and the USA. Otherwise, we'll become FRANCE!

Yahoo's top twenty cities in the world
Just last month, Yahoo had an article on the cities you must visit before you die.

And number one....was Tel Aviv.

Enough said.

well said, RW
re:
Excellent points...
It's telling that the most hysterical, offensive, personally abusive (and factually incorrect) posts here are all from those seeking to attack PB. They also spin bloody war fantasies in "defense" of Israel.
It's fortunate that posters like Passthesalt, Bud, Might Makes Right, etc. are not actually trying to convince anyone -- just spray slime -- because they're so incompetent at it, with "friends" like them Israel needs no enemies.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

It took a little while, but I KNEW the tried and true artful, obfuscatory shibboleths (good yiddish metaphor) "änti-Semite" and "Nazi" would be bleated reflexively when facts, sources, logic and articulation skills on the other side proved too inconvenient.

Ad hominem/calumny is the last refuge of those with vacuous arguments.

we should have given them N.D.
re:
1) Israel has defended itself in five wars, and tens of thousands of terrorist attacks. How much money has the uSA spent defending itself from just 9-11?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

America has spent IMMENSE billion supporting Israel, directly or indirectly-- see sources at my earlier posts.

In the late 1940's, Israel was established amid terrorism that would impress the worst Jihadists today. Thereafter, its elected leaders were routinely alums of those terrorist groups like M. Begin, M. Dayan, etc.

America has been compelled all along to support this tiny country of but 5 million-- the population of Houston-- while alienating 1.3 BILLION Islamics, 90% of whom see us as Israel's pawn.

It would have been FAR cheaper and less worrisome to have given them N.D. instead. The Islamics hate us largely BECAUSE we champion tiny Israel. This turmoil in the M.E. is perpetual because we assist it.

ah yes, the voice of reason!
re:
As Israel goes, so does the USA. I say we send troops there, and billions more. I also say we must Nuke half the arab world, destroy Al Manar, Al Arabiya, Al Jazeera, Al Capone, all the madrasses around the world that the Saudis support, and kick the muzzies out of Europe and the USA. Otherwise, we'll become FRANCE!

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Wow, you made my best argument with that convoluted, attenuated and scary logic! And we thought that the Jihadists were crazy!

A correction on your first sentence, though--> as Israel/the Zionists wishes, so the U.S. is commanded to do (their wish is our command)... so let it be written-- so let it be done!

oracle moron
no, it's Islam that is the problem. this is obvious. Islam is satan.

A powerful voice
Pat is an astute historian, and a shrewd analyst. He was right about Iraq, when the vast majority were wrong.

How can we not have learned more valuable lessons over the past eight years?

Attack Iran? You'd better be able to make a better case than any I've heard to this point if you want to convince me that's a good idea.

Remember . . .
there's NO business like "shoah" business

listen Orifice....
Morons like you never ask yourself, "Why don't the arabs just leave israel alone?"

It's this one obvious fact that makes you an imbecile Nazi. A two year old understands this concept.

Re Islam:
seven reasons off the top of my head why Islam is not a religion

1) islamists believe the purpose of life is to make everyone a muslim, and if they won't convert or cooperate, kill them or take money from them.
2) islam believes in forced conversions. In Christianity, there is prosletyzing. But you don't get killed if you don't convert. In Judaism, you have to want to be a Jew.
3) in islam, if you quit the religion, you become an apostate, and you must be killed
4) in islam, if you lose a battle, never concede defeat, never make peace with your enemy, and never give up the fight. Be a sore loser, and attack again when your rival is least expecting it.
5) Islam claims it's the only true religion. No true religion would ever make that claim
6) A major strategy of Islam is....deceipt, e.g., "strike when they least expect it," and "it's OK to lie to promote Islam."
7) You can't drink beer



a pox on both their houses!
re:
And for your information if given the chance the arabs will slice your head off because they HATE you. They do not care if you defend them or not.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I really do not give a crap about EITHER side over there, BUT we are being made to spend IMMENSE billions supporting ONE side, a TINY nation of only 5 million, thus pithing off the other side!

Our POTUS's have been vacuously calling for "peace in the M.E." for 60 years! It will NEVER happen! Our tax $ and weapons are assuring that perpetual conflict at IMMENSE expense to America.

The misbegotten war in Iraq (which 80% of Americans consider a profligate mistake) was engendered for Israel by Zionists! They proudly took credit for it as, "the Bush doctrine for the M.E." crafted by Wolfowitz.

Read and study closely, people!

thank you, bud
The more you bray ad hominem invective and bleat neoCON talking points, the better my arguments sound! ;>)

I am confident that many Americans will share your zeal to nuke the Islamic countries. Yessir!

And your purported religious basis for THAT holocaust would be what? How exactly does that turn the other cheek? Love your enemies? Hmmm.

here's a sobering thought
Eleven years ago, there were 300 mosques in Russia.

Today, there are over 8000.

It's true.

It's all about islam. Israel is jewish. therefore, according to Islam, israel must be destroyed.

Incidentally, the Koran also states, unequivocally, that Israel belongs to the Jews. But this little fact is ignored by the muzzie terrorists.

Oracle, it's time to end your suffering.
Do it...drive in the rain. too fast. You know you wanna.

Islam is trying to take over the world
It's obvious.

You're a bonafide imbecile, dorkacle.

here's a good place to start
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com This is my favorite website.

atlasshrugs.com

jihadwatch.org or .com I forget

Islam is satan

a person is often measured...
... as much by those who would tear him down as by those who would come to praise him.

Thanks to all of you braying knee-jerk ad hominem invective and anti-free speech and bleating the conditioned neoCON talking points... they have you folks well-snowed--> bud, Jon, TrueConservative (well, at least true neoCON), Darla, Right Makes Right.

There are some other voices of reason here, however-->

goatlockerloungelizard, RW, john, tj, Alex,
qhoratius (formerly povidus), Deacon
Belasarion

several of us make this point here
re:
qhoratius (formerly povidus) Location: CA
Reply # 56
Date: May 22, 2009 - 1:17 AM EST

Who's right?
Pat Buchanan was right about Iraq.

I have no reason to believe he is wrong about Iran.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

goatlockerloungelizard Location: NM
Reply # 10
Date: May 22, 2009 - 12:10 PM EST

A powerful voice
Pat is an astute historian, and a shrewd analyst. He was right about Iraq, when the vast majority were wrong.

Patty
Patty is a Jew hater, and will not be satisfied until all Jews are dead, and Israel is destroyed. Patty, why don't you concentrate on taking care of business in your own religion. Read the report released yesterday from Ireland concerning the abuse suffered by thousands of boys and girls at the hands of priests and nuns. Fix your own house before you tell others how to live, you pig.

and the relevance here would be?!
re:
"Yahoo's top twenty cities in the world
Just last month, Yahoo had an article on the cities you must visit before you die.

And number one....was Tel Aviv.

Enough said."

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Nobody here on the other side has suggested that Israeli's have not thrived (with IMMENSE American support... $3 billion/yr. in foreign aid alone) on the land they confiscated and subjugated via terrorism in the late 1940's.

We are also made to give them much of their armaments, and their spies here have stolen secrets in the worst, most damaging espionage ever perpetrated against America... far worse than the Rosenbergs for the USSR.

Yellow cake
A couple months back I saw an AP article that yellow cake had been found and quietly taken from Iraq to Canada. Doesn't exactly fit Mr. Buchanan's thesis. Also, Saddam Hussein was complicit in fueling beliefs about his WMDs - he was bluffing. There was a recent report that Iran did an across-border attack into Iraq.

surely not Yellow Cake, again!
...that has LONG been dismissed as a neoCON farce, even more vacuous than WMD's.

The old axiom that if you tell a really big lie that people will start to believe it depends on a gullible, unthoughtful object to be targeted

Uranium from Venezuela
Mr.Buchanan, Iran is obtaining uranium from Venezuela. In the southern part of the country, Iran has set up two factories, one to produce bicycles and one to produce motorcycles. These are a cover for two uraniam mines. Iranian Airlines flies in and out of Venezuela daily. No tickets are sold for these flights, they are parked at an out-of-the-way hangar, people get off and on without going through immigration nor customs. You well know that the New Tribes Mission was expelled from Venezuela, precisely because that is the area they were working with the indigenous tribes. That was about 5 years ago. You do the math. No new bicycles nor new motorcycles have appeared in the market there.

Hey Gary,You Anti-Catholic Punk !

You wanna make this a Catholic-Jew Fight, Boy ?

You go there and you get what what you ask for,Twerp !


Bottom Line
Israel itself holds no special significance to justify the "special relationship" with the United States.

The real reason, and the only reason, the U.S. is so tied up in Israel's affairs is because Jewish money is the life blood of our political system. They might only be 2% of our population, but they contribute 50% of all campaign money to both parties...and who knows how much below the radar graft.

I don't blame the Jews for this. For them, it's merely self-preservation. To ignore why we are tied so tight with Israel, however, is to ignore the obvious. MONEY, MONEY, MONEY...and no politician can resist that money, so get used to the "special relationship." It's here to stay. He who has has the gold makes the rules. When you own a nation's financial system and pay off its political system, you get the final word.

BiBi and Barack.........
Not exactly best friends. The body language was very telling. BHO refused to even look at BiBi, who stared hard at the Anointed One. And BHO looked like someone had just *issed in his cornflakes. Quite a revealing press conference. Barack has met his match.


courageous post, cjb56...
... and ENTIRELY true. Jews are indeed < 2% of our population, but hold 15% of the Senate seats, and vote in lock step for Israel... and woe betide any pol foolish enough even to question our blinding fealty and homage toward Israel with American tax dollars.

More to the point, they account for over half of all political contributions, or 25 TIMES what would be expected based on their small % of the population.

it was a provocative post by Gary
re:

Gary Location: FL
Reply # 9
Date: May 22, 2009 - 1:29 PM EST

Patty
Patty is a Jew hater, and will not be satisfied until all Jews are dead, and Israel is destroyed. Patty, why don't you concentrate on taking care of business in your own religion. Read the report released yesterday from Ireland concerning the abuse suffered by thousands of boys and girls at the hands of priests and nuns. Fix your own house before you tell others how to live, you pig.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

... also presumptuous in drawing unfounded conclusions, ad hominem, supercilious, rude, and tangentially off topic...

Oriface
You clearly are a leftist loser with no employment or prospects to spend all day repeating mindlessly the same old tired antisemitism bullshite! How about getting a life and learning about reality.

To you other fools who would abandon a valiant people [yeah, that's the Jews] in a sea of their enemies ... you disgust me ... like Dukakis, you'd all have to ponder before you'd consider saving your kids. Get the hell off this site and take your evil rantings elsewhere ... take Pat Buchanan with you!

Enough already
TrueConservative you make so much sense. I so agree with you about oracle. Oracle , I don't understand your thinking process or how you come to the conclusions that you do about Israel. I am a stay at home mom. I don't have a college education, but I have an extensive book collection on the history of Israel from the holocaust, becoming a state,to the present day. I read magazines, the internet , and watch the news. The only people I ever hear say the things you do, either don't understand the issues or just don't care. I care about a country and people who have their lives continually threatened by some really evil people in this world. Oracle, evil really exists in this world and you sound like one of them. I think you say what you do for attention and that makes you pathetic.

reply to: Darla
I teach business and economics in college, following a career in banking. I believe that you are sincere in your feelings, but honestly things are sometimes more complicated than they seem on the surface.

The post by cjb56 at 4:09 says a lot about why you never hear another side to this debate... the media are too controlled by a surprisingly small number.

As for Islamics, there are 1.3 billion in the world; the vast majority want to live good lives as much as we. There are as many Arab-Americans as American Jews, but the Arab side is NEVER allowed to be heard.

cjb56 expressed it so well really here:

The real reason, and the ONLY reason, the U.S. is so tied up in Israel's affairs is because Jewish money is the life blood of our political system. I don't blame the Jews for this. For them, it's merely self-preservation.

To ignore why we are tied so tight with Israel, however, is to ignore the obvious. MONEY, MONEY, MONEY...and no politician can resist that money, so get used to the "special relationship." It's here to stay. He who has has the gold makes the rules. When you own a nation's financial system and pay off its political system, you get the final word.

reply to: TrueneoCON
I could not be farther from a leftist-- I am the son of a recently deceased career Air Force Colonel, and I have voted for every Republican for POTUS (I worked for RR and Daddy Bush) for 30+ years until neoCON Amnesty John made me say, enough is enough for the lesser evil.

Many conflate what is good for Israel with what is good for America. Like Pat B., I have the intellectual integrity to question that vacuous, hackneyed premise. There are certainly bad Islamics-- BUT that does not automatically make the Israeli side without sin as the religious ilk put it.

Pat and I are Paleocons. We believe in limited guvment, fiscal responsibility, and America First... foreign wars should be rare and only when American interests are CLEARLY at stake. A TRUE conservative should not welcome profligate foreign wars with uncertain objectives and exit strategies-- and 80% of America now regrets this boondoggle.

Pat and I smelled a rat about Iraq because we saw who was pulling Dubya's strings in the W.H. More to the point, we studied what they had written and called for (the PNAC) starting years before 9/11.

Iraq has been another Viet Nam-- even more expensive, and was again engendered for reasons not in America's best interests.

Oracle
The arab world is never heard. Are you serious about that statement? All you hear is the arab world screeching to the heavens about some supposed offense. Israel has only asked for the ability to defend themselves and to live in peace. Gaza is a perfect example of what the arab people are capable of. They had a chance of peace and making something of their selves and they turned it into a terrorist state. I have never understood the so called money issue. People only say that when they don't have a real reason for their views.

someone should put oracle to sleep
quit spouting your drivel.

read http://www.thereligionofpeace.com
watch Brigitte Gabriel on You Tube
read jihadwatch.org
read atlasshrugs.com

Did you see the photo of the entire Italian Parliament carrying Israeli flags? Italy is smart enough to start banning muslim immigration. Why aren't we? Because we have a muzzie in the White House

Over 99 percent of the terrorism throughout the world is Islamic. how 'bout those Somalian pirates? It never ends!

Did you see on You Tube the little Palestinian girl cry "It's Hamas!"
Read Waled Shoebat, who was a Jordanian terrorist who lived in the West bank. Now, he's a huge supporter of Israel.

65% of newborns in ENGLAND are muslim. ENGLAND. 35% in Canada.

This Orifice guy is senile, and should stop wasting everyone's time with his bilge.

By any standard, Israel is the greatest
country on Earth.

Watch Memri videos.
Read camera.org Committe for Accuracy on middle east reporting.

Darla's right. When Israel controlled Gaza, they provided 10 thousand jobs to the palis. What did the Palis do? they started murdering Jews. The Jews moved out. The Palis turned it into a cesspool.

Learn your history. Israel is blameless. Be like an Arab and go screw a camel, and then behead your sister for not answering the phone. after raping her.

Jon and Oracle
I absolutely love Brigette Gabriel and I really like Walid Shoebat. You want to know what the arab world is like go to Brigette's website at ACT! for America. Her two books are so informative. She can tell you exactly how the arab world treats the Israelis. She is from Lebanon and lived there during the first Lebanon War. Read her books Oracle, you might see just how wrong your thinking is.

Orifice #1
"I could not be farther from a leftist--" No, like Pat, you just support idiotic leftist ideas!

"Many conflate what is good for Israel with what is good for America." When America can't support a noble people against an overwhelming and purely evil enemy, then what DO we stand for? You show what you stand for ... it isn't civilization!

"There are certainly bad Islamics--" My nomination for understatement of the century!

"Pat and I are Paleocons." Oh please stop with the vacuous labels!

"foreign wars should be rare and only when American interests are CLEARLY at stake" We have to start opposing radical Islam at some point until they get the point! Iraq, one of the most evil and despotically run hellholes on the planet was a good start! What you and Pat consistently fail to do is foresee the consequences of letting this terrorism evil continue ... a hint, exactly what Clinton did until it led to 9/11 ... hell, even Osama understands the "strong horse" concept ... just you and Pat fail to grasp that obvious fact!


Orifice #2
"A TRUE conservative should not welcome profligate foreign wars with uncertain objectives and exit strategies-- and 80% of America now regrets this boondoggle." I don't follow silly polls with a stupid electorate that elected our current socialist/communist, and by the way, your concern about silly "exit strategies" exposes your leftism ... our exit strategy is victory and leaving a democratically elected government in Iraq ... a first in the Arab world!

"Pat and I smelled a rat about Iraq because we saw who was pulling Dubya's strings in the W.H." Could it just be GWB looked at all sides and came down like any SANE person on the side of our ally ... and the ONLY free country in that entire region of the world?

"Iraq has been another Viet Nam-- even more expensive" More leftist drivel ... not even close ... less than one TENTH the casualties. And one has to consider the results ... which are uniformly FAVORABLE [not that you could see the benefits] ... well worth it just for the message it sent to the fanatics!

In conclusion, your position looks like the crap you've been relentlessly spewing all day here!

there are none so blind...
...as they who will not see.

There are at least 8 other posters here today who get what I have been saying.

Why do upwards of 80% of Americans now think the war in Iraq was a bad mistake?

Do any of you ad hominem brayers KNOW who advised Dubya to take out Iraq? Who suckered the NYT into the WMD scare story? They were Wolfy, Feith, Perle, Abrams, Bolton, Libby and Wurmser.

THEY cooked up the excuses, which ALL proved to be vacuous and disingenuous. The REAL reason for the war was spelled out in their writings called the PNAC back in 1996-- they wanted to take out Iraq for Israel's defense and get permanent American bases there. They proudly called Wolfy the author of "the Bush Doctrine"-- because he WAS!

The reason Dubya and Cheney are now estranged is that Baker and Scocroft finally explained to Dubya that he (AND America) had been snookered by these guys... he staked and ruined his whole presidency on them, thus giving us the ObaMessiah in reaction.

Connect the dots, people!

the war in Iraq has nothing to do with..
Buchanan's article?

Why did 430 out of 435 Congressmen vote to support Israel in its war against Gaza?

430 to 5.

There is none so dumb as those who stubbornly make the same imbecilic statements and refuse to learn from countless mistakes...as ORALOSER.

Jon
When you look back at the formation of Israel, you will see how the Arabs stuffed the 'Palestinian territory' with everyone they could get to move there to shape world opinion against Israel. Why is it that no one ever wants to remember that fact when they bleat over the 'poor Palestinians'?

Why doesn't someone report on what the 'poor Palestinians' did with the millions of dollars in greenhouses that Bill Gates gave them?

Why doesn't the MSM report an update on the 'poor Palestinians' the Head Jackass has given a pass to for them (thousands) to come to this country?

Orifice ... AGAIN
Did you learn a new word today {ad hominem]?

Your numbers [8 posters and 80%] do not define right ... if that's the case then a majority always defines right? You keep proving you're an IDIOT like Pat!

Bush, like Reagan, is capable of making up his own mind ... just because your "neocons" say the sun is shining do you deny it because Wolfowitz said it ... at high noon? In a few short years the benefits will be obvious even to morons like you and Pat [by the way, it's NOT ad hominem when it's the TRUTH, buddy ... better get your IQ checked]!


this is too easy
re:
"our exit strategy is victory and leaving a democratically elected government in Iraq"

Watch what they elect, and already have-- Dubya was pithed... Hamas and Hisbollah have been democratically elected also... what happened to being greeted as liberators, and inspiring democracies favorable to America?! Simply neoCON claptrap!

"Could it just be GWB looked at all sides and came down like any SANE person on the side of our ally"

Aha, so we DID take out Iraq for Israel--NOT what was admitted

"hell, even Osama understands the "strong horse" concept"

And Osama was DELIGHTED that we took out secular Saddam, who was his opponent

"Iraq has been another Viet Nam-- even more expensive" More leftist drivel ... not even close...

Expense as in real $, bozo! This thing is headed toward $3 TRILLION all-in, including medical care for life our myriad unfortunate badly maimed troops. That is $400,000 of American tax $ for each Israeli citizen.


"Pat and I are Paleocons." Oh please stop with the vacuous labels!

Like leftist?

I just read Oracle teaches in college!
We should find out what college so we can get his butt terminated for brainwashing his students.

1.6 billion Arabs, the richest people on Earth, the Saudis are putting tenured professors at even HARVARD of all places in exchange for allowing for hundreds of Arabs to go to school there. Arabs who bring their shariah garbage with them, their polygamy, their zillion children (Bin Laden and his dad had 80!! children)....the Europeans bought Oracle's garbage and now look at Belgium, look at Sweden! (muzzie rapes every day), look at France (Brigitte Bardot wrote a letter saying the muzzies were destroying France, and SHE got fined!). The Arabs depend on gullible idiots like Oracle to spread their barbarism--let's put them in georgia at his college so he knows what it's like to live in constant fear.

I watched a garbage movie recently....
"Occupation 101" and I swear, there wasn't one sentence in the whole movie that was accurate, or honest, or factual, or valid.

The reason 25 percent of Congress is made up of Jews, when there are 5 million Jews in the USA, and 10 million Muzzies, is that Jews strive for greatness. Jews want to be educated. Jews live productively. Many of the world's geniuses are Jews.

Why aren't there many Muslims in Congress? They live destructively.

Anyway, I challenged the producers of Occupation Mein Kampf, or whatever it's called, to a debate, and of course, they woosed out.
They're girliemen.

TO say Congress votes with Israel because they're afraid not to is imbecilic, cynical, or bigotted. But, that's the essence of Oracles, the Moron.



Truth is like a cork in water
Somewhere, someday it will surface.
Calif. spent over 8 billion dollars for the !@#$% illegals in one year! Now it is on the edge of bankruptcy!
Obama sent millions of dollars to foreign
abortion clinics!And millions to ACORN!
Truth is always hard and painful when it comes to money being wasted! And that cork is going
to hit the americans right in the !@#$!
Elvis

ORADUMB
Too easy,indeed!

You're great at imagining what your adversaries say and then refuting THAT ... Mr. Straw Man! ["Aha, so we DID take out Iraq for Israel--NOT what was admitted"]. I defy you to find anything close to those words in anything I wrote.

We took out Saddam as a member of the axis of evil and a convenient place to start based on about 30 equally good reasons any one of which was sufficient! That Israel may have favored that move is a lucky coincidence for them!

You strike me [to put this in terms even you and Pat might understand]as one who wouldn't want to lift a finger to free your next door neighbor [who happens to be a Jew] from a gang of thugs that have taken over his house and are terrorizing his family ... oh yeah, and they tried to assassinate your father while he was visiting you! GET the picture yet?

As for the 4000 lives lost ... unfortunate as hell, but again, we lost 3000 CIVILIANS in this country and Saddam's Iraq was just part of the axis of evil doers. We spent 4000 valuable lives to prevent far higher than 3000 casualties in the future! Just like when the police finally get around to taking out the terrorists next door, they may suffer some casualties doing it ... but then, you were next and now the threat is gone! Capiche??

Oracle 1 GA says:
We should have given them ND"..I hope he wasn't referring to North Dakota!! I lived there for several years and found the Locals to be fine Folk--Many of Scandinavian stock..A good friend responded to my question regarding the *Clannish" nature exhibited. He described it so"
"The Swedes don't like the Norwegians"
"The Norwegians don't like the Finns"
"AND THE FINlANDERS DON"T LIKE A DAMN SOUL!!
I don't think the Jews would have been a good Fit..
Actually, I kinda like Pat, but this essay was HOGWASH!!

Our Boo-rack was doing the best he could
with what he has to work with. He knows Bibi has him beat 1000 to 1 on IQ so he ducks his head and looks the other way when he talks like he is picking his nose or maybe chewing on a KFC bone cause if that Jew ever sees Boo-racks lips moving then he will know he is lying and the jig is up or down or .....or caught.

The jew don't have our jig boxed cause he aint never told the truth yet...our jig not the jew.

Both sides are missing the point....
Obama believes that because he has a slew of mindless automatons in the US, that he will be able to actually affect some change in the ME. Hardly. From his "negotiations" with foreign rulers thus far, it is clear that he does not have the intelligence or the gutso to engage in diplomatic relations that will actually benefit the US. He does have the ability to roll over like a beaten dog and make concessions, however. Clinton's idea of convincing Iran that they will be less secure if they create a WMD is only slightly less naive. If you are surrounded by a gang of people that you perceive as hostile to you, and they tell you that you'll be worse off if you pick up that assault rifle at your feet... are you going to listen to them? Hell no, no one with half a brain would listen to that idiocy.

Now lets get onto the warmongers. Ok we invade and destroy Iran. Now what? We'll have even more countries feel threatened by our presence, and any future enemies we make will find it easy to find allies that are equally as fearful of our aggression. This is not Rome, where we destroy a city and take their women and resources for ourselves. We get no real benefit from war for the sake of war. Even being present in the middle East harms the US.

Bottom line - we need to stop being arrogant enough to think that either or persuasiveness or our strength are enough to improve the lives of others in this world. Like nearly all government action it usually makes things worse. The best we can do is keep our military at home to defend the US, and do our best to prosper and provide a positive example to the rest of the world.

Furthermore
I should paraphrase a relevant quote from Machiavelli -

Nations attack each other for two reasons. The first is to take something of value from the other, and the second is for fear of being attacked.

By leaving the ME and making it clear that we will not engage in any foreign wars, and our relatively impressive military might, we eliminate both of these reasons. We should take a hint from Switzerland, which has not been part of a war since Napoleon invaded it. Yes we have been lied to from day one - SWITZERLAND is the greatest country in the world. If this statement shocks or angers you - do some research. Their per capita income is higher than ours. They have the lowest crime rate in the world [despite an Assault rifle being in every home.. those in favor of gun control], and Zurich and Geneva, their two largest cities, have the highest and second highest quality of life in the world. Their federal government is small - few citizens even know the name of their president, because he just doesn't really matter that much compared to local governments.

Vincent...Va. ....JIM-OK
VINCENT- A religious leader in the 1800's
said that America would become the strongest nation in the world but it would send its
military all over the world and be vulnerable
at home(against attacks)! That ties into your comments at the end of your post(troops/home).

Jim- who in the world is BIBI?

ELVIS

VINCENT...SWITZERLAND
Didn't Hitler decide it was too rugged and
high to invade?

Assault guns in all homes...no wonder crime rate is low!
Do they have a military(Air Force)?
It is easier to have quality when you are talking small! Yes, I know there are small countries that are horrible but it is easier to manage a family of 4 than 12!
When are you moving there?
Elvis

Bibi is
Bibi Netanyahu

JIM.....
THANKS FOR THE INFO. NOW I UNDERSTAND YOUR POSTS.
ELVIS

Michael Savage is Banned in Britain!
Why isn't anyone talking about this?

http://michaelsavage.wnd.com/

Every major conservative pundit who worries about the 1st amendment and the 'fairness doctrine' has been dead silent, what's up with that?

programmed neoCON braying...
... while willfully ignoring facts-- the ends justify ANY means.

re:
"We took out Saddam as a member of the axis of evil and a convenient place to start based on about 30 equally good reasons any one of which was sufficient!"

Axis of evil?! A rightly discredited unfounded hyperbole; Iraq had NOTHING to do with 9/11, though we were led to believe he did by Perle, Feith, and Wolfy. Saddam and Osama/Iran and Saddam were OPPONENTS-- he served as a check on them- ONLY Israel despises and fears all equally.


re:
"As for the 4000 lives lost ... unfortunate as hell, but again, we lost 3000 CIVILIANS in this country and Saddam's Iraq was just part of the axis of evil doers."

Again, NO connection WHATSOVER with Iraq... and I could not tell 4,000 families, "Hey-- bad stuff happens! Easy come, easy go! An Arab is an Arab! Lighten up. folks!"

re:
I don't follow silly polls with a stupid electorate that elected our current socialist/communist, and by the way, your concern about silly "exit strategies" exposes your leftism ... our exit strategy is victory and leaving a democratically elected government in Iraq ... a first in the Arab world!

Aha, the neoCON savant knows better than 80% of America, though all of the reasons given to justify Iraq proved to be artful lies. Hmmm. Again, what do you say when democracies elect those hostile to us like Hamas and Hisbollah, partly because most Arabs see us as unwanted interlopers and dupes of Israel?

EXCELLENT post by Vincent at
... May 23, 2009 - 2:27 PM EST

Excerpt:

Now let's get onto the warmongers. Ok we invade and destroy Iran. Now what? We'll have even more countries feel threatened by our presence, and any future enemies we make will find it easy to find allies that are equally as fearful of our aggression.

This is not Rome, where we destroy a city and take their women and resources for ourselves. We get no real benefit from war for the sake of war. Even being present in the middle East harms the US.

Bottom line - we need to stop being arrogant enough to think that either or persuasiveness or our strength are enough to improve the lives of others in this world. Like nearly all government action it usually makes things worse. The best we can do is keep our military at home to defend the US, and do our best to prosper and provide a positive example to the rest of the world.

really, Jon-- who is being naive?!
re:
"To say Congress votes with Israel because they're afraid not to is imbecilic, cynical, or bigotted (sic). But, that's the essence of Oracle1, the Moron."

Stunningly, less than 2% of the population accounts for > 50% of ALL national political contributions to BOTH parties. Various pols who had the temerity even to seriously question our fealty to Israel and the Jewish agenda (AEI, JDL, ADL, AIPAC, JINSA, PNAC, CSP, the Hudson Institute, The Foundation for the Defense of Democracies, Ethics and Public Policy Center) were ruined, such as Sen. Fulbright... they flooded money and bodies into Arkansas and expunged him... he said he had never seen anything like it.

The fact that this is inordinate influence is OVERWHELMING.

http://www.csmonitor.com/specials/neocon/spheresInfluence.h tml
http://www.codoh.info/zionweb/zionpgiraq.html

Importance of the Resistance
Iraqi resostamce of Chalibi et al worked hard tp get pur help. Half million Iranians in LA want to go it alone without invasion.

so what?!
re:
Michael Savage is Banned in Britain!
Why isn't anyone talking about this?

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Savage picked a good name... he is a RABID arch-militant, Zionist racist... his hyperbolic rhetoric often goes over the top of dramatic license and free speech... he offends me even when I agree with the substance of his rants... he simply sometimes reaps what he sows.

conservative anti-semtism
Yes Pat, it's the Jews once again who insidiously control the American people like the puppet masters of destiny, lurking within the hallowed halls of the Illuminati. The British and American intelligence services were all pawns in the skillful hands of the Mossad.

Israel is on the front lines of a war that is being waged against the west. The west that you hold so dear. Yet time and time again you support the nefarious machinations of regimes hell-bent on destroying Israel and the west. The fudging of your facts aside, there is something unholy and pathological when it comes to your assessment of Israel and the conflict with Islamo-fascism.
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