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Tuesday, April 14, 2009
Pat Buchanan :: Townhall.com Columnist
The True Haters
by Pat Buchanan
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Will the Dems' health care Christmas Present to America be an improvement or detriment to our health care system?


On Good Friday, John Demjanjuk, 89 and gravely ill, was ordered deported to Germany to stand trial as an accessory to the murder of 29,000 Jews -- at Sobibor camp in Poland.

Sound familiar? It should. It is a re-enactment of the 1986 extradition of John Demjanjuk to Israel to be tried for the murder of 870,000 Jews -- at Treblinka camp in Poland.

How many men in the history of this country have been so relentlessly pursued and remorselessly persecuted?

The ordeal of this American Dreyfus began 30 years ago.

In 1979, the Office of Special Investigations (OSI) at Justice, goaded and guided by Yuri Andropov's KGB, was persuaded that Demjanjuk was "Ivan the Terrible," a huge, brutal, sadistic guard at Treblinka, who bashed in babies' heads and slashed off women's breasts, as he drove hundreds of thousands of Jews into the gas chambers.

Demjanjuk's defense was simple: I was never at Treblinka.

Yet, a dozen survivors, shown a photo spread, identified him as the beast of Treblinka. In 1986, OSI had him extradited to Israel. In 1988, he was convicted and sentenced to death. The greatest Holocaust monster since Mengele was to be hanged.

His family, friends and lawyers did not give up. They scoured Europe and, in the last days of the Soviet Union, struck pay dirt. In Moscow's files on Treblinka they discovered a photo of the real "Ivan," a far bigger, more mature man than the 23-year-old Demjanjuk in 1943.

Ivan Marchenko was positively identified as Ivan the Terrible.

To its eternal credit, Israel's Supreme Court threw aside the verdict and stopped Demjanjuk from being the first man hanged in Jerusalem since Adolf Eichmann in 1961.

A humiliated OSI, through its Israeli friends, now asked the court to authorize a new trial, charging Demjanjuk with having been a guard at Sobibor -- during the same time they previously charged he had been at Treblinka.

What OSI was admitting was that its case against Demjanjuk, to see him hang from the gallows as "Ivan the Terrible," had been based on flimsy or falsified evidence and worthless or perjured testimony.

Replied the court, we don't do double jeopardy here in Israel.

Demjanjuk was released. And the grin of the jailer who opened his cell testified that many in Israel never accepted the charge that this simple man was some unrivaled devil of the Holocaust.

So, after 13 years, the last four on death row reflecting on his hanging for horrors he never committed, Demjanjuk came home to Cleveland, a free man. His citizenship was restored.

Though disgraced, OSI was not ready to throw in its hand. For it had been dealt a new card by its old comrades in the KGB.

The new evidence was a signed statement by one "Danilchenko," who claimed to have been a guard at Sobibor and had worked with Demjanjuk. As this document would have blown up the Treblinka case in Jerusalem, OSI had withheld it from the defense.

Another document turned up suggesting that Demjanjuk had indeed, after training at Trawniki camp, been assigned to Sobibor.

When the defense asked to interrogate "Danilchenko," to verify he had made and signed the statement and to question him on details, they were told this was not possible. Seems Danilchenko had died after signing. So, after the first 13 years of his ordeal took him right up to a gallows in Jerusalem, Demjanjuk has now been pursued for another 17 years by an OSI that will not rest until he has been convicted, somewhere, of genocide. And so we come to today. Demjanjuk is to be taken to Germany and prosecuted as an accessory to the murder of 29,000 Jews at Sobibor -- though not one living person can place him at that camp and not even the German prosecutor will say that he ever hurt anyone. One witness in Israel, who was at Sobibor and says he knew all the camp guards, says he never saw Demjanjuk there. If Friday's ruling is upheld, John Demjanjuk, who has been charged with no crime on German soil, is to be taken to Germany, home of the Third Reich, to be tried by Germans for his alleged role in a genocide planned and perpetrated by Germans. He is to serve as the sacrificial lamb whose blood washes away the stain of Germany's sins. But if Germans wish to prosecute participants in the Holocaust, why not round up some old big-time Nazis, instead of a Ukrainian POW. Answer: They cannot. Because the Germans voted an amnesty for themselves in 1969. So now they must find a Slav soldier they captured -- and Heinrich Himmler's SS conscripted and made a camp guard, if he ever was a camp guard -- to punish in expiation for Germany's sins. The spirit behind this un-American persecution has never been that of justice tempered by mercy. It is the same satanic brew of hate and revenge that drove another innocent Man up Calvary that first Good Friday 2,000 years ago. Patrick Buchanan is the author of the new book "Churchill, Hitler and 'The Unnecessary War." To find out more about Patrick Buchanan, and read features by other Creators Syndicate writers and cartoonists, visit the Creators Syndicate web page at www.creators.com. COPYRIGHT 2009 CREATORS SYNDICATE INC.

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About The Author
Pat Buchanan is a founding editor of The American Conservative magazine, and the author of many books including State of Emergency: The Third World Invasion and Conquest of America .
 
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©Creators Syndicate
An Historical Note to Consider
A questioned document analyst who examined the identification card supposedly issued to Demjanjuk in the 40s, prior to his first trial easily concluded it was a forgery.

In Israel the questione document examiner faced the possibility under Israeli law of going to prison for offering his opinion.

The questioned document examiner was William Flynn, who may still practice here in Phoenix. He has a lot of interesting information on the case since he was involved in the trial in Israel. And not flattering to the prosecution. And William Flynn was a prosecution witness and and a former policeman. If any of you have an interest in this case Bill would probably be happy to visit with you on the details.

The author (for once) is correct in many of his points.

What a sad and horrible story.
And this is our own "Justice" Department?

Can't wait till these types are in charge of our health care, energy supply, banking and auto industries.

While I agree that a terrible.....
was made in this case, I think it's a red herring. I haven't heard or read anything by Pat condemning the considerable number of falsely accused and convicted citizens in our own country.

One doesn't have to be a Zionist to see Pat's anti Semitism in this post, which surfaces from time to time, and he certainly didn't miss the opportunity here.

Ralph -- you resort to labels and names
And you're objective Ralph? The question is whether or not the guy is guilty? It's a question of fact - not opinion. Pat made a case - and then you - revealing a total lack of an open or fair mind, attack Pat.

As an American Jew ...
I'd have to say that this case is pretty disturbing and I'm glad that Pat Buchanan is bringing it up.

There is nothing more frightening than being pursued relentlessly by our own government when you are innocent.

We can expect more of this in the brave new world that Obama is creating. Note the recent Department of Homeland Security briefing paper on "right wing extremist groups". Note Prez Obama's stated intent to create an "internal" defense force "as big as the armed forces". Note the Federal funding of ACORN. Note Obama and Rahm Emmanuel taking over the administration of the census from the Dept. of Commerce.

As Benjamin Franklin said when asked "What type of government have you given us?"

"A republic, if you can keep it".



Ralph

This ordeal has been going on for years. I remember when I was a small child and the government rigged up the charges against Demjanjuk. Everyone was certain that he was "Ivan the Terrible" and deserved to die. The moral of this story is that the government, unable to admit its error or manipulation of facts, has continued to persecute an innocent man.

If the government is not stopped in a case such as this, where there is enormous press, you can forget about some anonymous individual in an anonymous American city. And, remember, this man, who LIVED in an anonymous American city.

www.creators.com
Thank you, for this website. I look forward to checking it out, forthwith. My own mind remains open on these utlimate-question issues of justice and mercy. I don't believe much, but I do believe that we have an intellectual and vital duty not merely to accept, but to investigate things for ourselves. I want to compliment citizens everywhere, especially those in Israel, who share this approach. The conventional wisdom--especially bureaucratic modern government--needs to be approached with skepticism. I admire Buchanan for his courage to question certain orthodoxies, not with blind rage, but with a spirited determination to defend the common man, no matter who he or she is!

eileen
"WHITES HAVE DEFINITELY BEEN THE DOWNFALL OF AMERICA AS WE SPEAK."

Yes. They sure were, evil gui lo's. Except for the fact the Declaration of Independence and the US Constitution which despite its many flaws allowed for a great deal of political and economic freedom, the creation of one of the greatest economic engines in history, the liberation of millions including the slaves, and turned the US into one of the greatest economic and military powers the world has ever known. Yep. They sure were behind the downfall of America.

You are a troll, no?


Glad to see someone...
... sounding off on this obscene, obsessive and unjust prosecution.

PS... is TownHall even slower than usual today?



eileen
Talk about racist. Just wondering are you black? If so, would you have preferred your ancestors have stayed in Africa?

Think you've got it bad here, there it is possible you and your family wouldn't even exist.

Note to Akagi - hey we agree on something!


'DIMENISHING AMERICA'
eileen, exactly how is Akagi diminishing America? Your troll attitude seems to be more along the lines of what is wrong with this country today than Akagis rebuttal of "WHITES HAVE DEFINITELY BEEN THE DOWNFALL OF AMERICA AS WE SPEAK."

Sure whites have been the cause of many misdeeds through the ages, but can you name a race/culture that hasn't? Whites have also been the cause of most of the betterment of society/humanity as a whole, but you don't hear about that much for some reason :(

Would tell you to do your research into history some more, but it is obvious that you would just dismiss that as your mind is already made up.

Eileen
1. Please learn to spell.

2. Learn to comprehend irony.

3. Please STOP SHOUTING.


eileen ranks alongside wobbie,
Lon, Dunderhue,... in the IQ dept--as evidenced by her obvious missing of Akagi's sarkiness.

Also, is it mere coincidence that OSI can revive a case it launched (and botched catastrophically) under Jew-hating POTUS Dhimmi Carter exactly when an even worse POTUS (and as evidenced by his attending jeremiah wright's sermons for 2 decades, an even worse Jew-hater) than Dhimmi?

eileen
First, you mistake agreement with being sarcastic. I know that is at times hard to understand in text as the tone often gives the speakers true feelings such as. "Whites are the downfall of America." "Yes, you are soooooooooo right. They have done every evil known to man and we should round them all up and send them to some place where they know how to respect human rights...like the Democratic Republic of the Congo." This is being sarcastic as the DRC is the nearest to hell on earth I can think of. But the context of my post should have clued you in that I was not seriously agreeing with your claims.

Second, you assume much that I am white. Have I ever said I was white or any other "race, color or creed" as far as that goes.

Third, even if I were white, how am I responsible for the downfall of America...right now.

Fourth, you are a troll.


Mr. Buchannan
You are a good and decent man. I hope the God of all deceny keeps you around a good long time to tie those who are without decency into knots.

eileen
Africans and then Arabs were engaged in slavery long before and then long after whites were. It was white, Christians that by and large ended the practice in both Europe and their American colonies and in Africa itself.

Importation of slaves from Africa was banned in 1807. The vast majority of US slaves living in the US were born in the US and not from Africa.

"AND WHERE WE COME FROM. EVEN THOUGH PEOPLE IN AFRICA BEEN THROUGH A LOT AND THEY'RE STILL GOING THROUGH THEY KNOW WHO THEY ARE. AND THROUGH ALL THAT THEY STILL HAVE THEY'RE DIGNITY."

Really? Ask those in Darfur and Rwanda and the DRC about dignity.

As for being left alone in Africa, Blacks in the US are much better off in the US than in say Côte d'Ivoire or Ghana, so I am unsure how well off they'd be if they had been left in Africa, but I will say the US may have been better off if they had been left there, no civil war, much lower violent crime, poverty, urban blight, and other social problems. Guess that makes me a racist, eileen, the troll, for pointing that out.

eileen
Delta among others have direct flights from the US to Africa. Finding your way back there isn't so hard.

I understanding leaving the US is difficult...have to sell your house, get rid of lots of your stuff, find a new place in the other country, buy more stuff, etc etc.


I agree with Eileen
Whites argue that blacks are "better off" in the U.S. than in Africa (BTW, Africa is not a country but a continent consisting of many countries) but the best and brightest -- healthy men and women, usually between the ages of 18-30 were stripped from these countries during the slave trade. Contrary to popular belief, these people weren't "savages," some did bring with them, for example, knowledge of rice cultivation from their native countries which ironically aided their captors in such rice-growing areas as the Sea Islands of Georgia.

Families, tribes, and whole nations were destroyed in the trans-Atlantic slave trade. Who knows what would have happened if the slave trade had never existed and Africa had been allowed to develop?

Most of you can trace your ancestry back to your nation of origin. Most African Americans can't.

eileen
"pep talk"?

I'd describe it more as a well deserved "b.itch slap"!

Melissa
Slavery existed before the whites and after and it no less destroyed the make up of African society than did the Trans-Atlantic trade. And not only whites argue that blacks are better off in the US, many blacks do as well. Recall Ali's quote? When he got back from "The Rumble in the Jungle" in Zaire (now the DRC) when asked what he thought about Africa "Thank God my grand-daddy got on that boat!" was his reply.

"some did bring with them, for example, knowledge of rice cultivation from their native countries which ironically aided their captors in such rice-growing areas as the Sea Islands of Georgia."

This is indeed true.

"Who knows what would have happened if the slave trade had never existed and Africa had been allowed to develop?"

But it did exist and for much longer than European slavery. And even if there was no slavery, that wouldn't have stopped the scramble for Africa in the late 19th century and much of European colonialism especially in the Congo was far worse than any effects of slavery.

As for what if? History is full of those aren't they? What if the Qing had never come to power and become an insular conservative regime which became corrupt and weak and allowed much of Europe to carve China up. Who knows. But the fact remains, blacks today in the US are far better off than where they came from...today!

But slavery has been dead for quite some time and you are free to return to the homeland this time by jet with ice in your drinks instead of inside the stinky hold of a slave ship.

One last thing Melissa
Fewer and fewer Americans can trace back their origins to the nation of origin of their forefathers and when slaves were brought to the US, none of the African nations that now exist existed then. In say 1691, Ghana, Cote d'Ivoire, Angola, Togo, Senegal, Benin, Gabon, etc didn't exist. Would it be accurate to say you came from Gabon when it didn't exist?

Eileen
Seems the rulers of TH didn't care for Eileen, her anti-white shouting has vanished into the ether.

I will say that her posts are no more offensive than calling children of Mexican illegals anchor rats. I see no reason why she should have been banished. Besides fun to toy with the mindless.


The True Haters-Not The Nazis per Pat B
Hats off to Jimbo (reply 7-4/14 1:11 PM)for hitting the nail squarely and firmly on the head:
"What a nice touch tying the OSI's efforts to bring Demjanjuk to the gibbet with the Jews' murder of Jesus. I haven't heard the Jews' blood libel for Jesus for a long time."

That helps to explains and makes clear Buchanan's intended meaning of the title "The True Haters" - It's not the Nazis but the OSI,KGB and mainly the Jews.

Pat
I disagree with you on the issue of WW2, but if you are right in this case, it is a miscarage of justus.
Akagi, am I to understand you belive black people are better off in the USA, even if they came as slaves?
Also, the book about china in our last um, disagreement. I found it, but have forgotten the paper I wrote the authers name on.
Kirk

Melissa
I can't believe that you just wrote "Whites argue that blacks are "better off" in the U.S. than in Africa". Um, can you argue that they aren't?

Do you truly believe that Michelle Obama wouldn't more likely be hoeing yams if she had been born over there? And, do you believe the Trans-Atlantic slave trade was solely responsible for the ravaging of the tribes? The Arabs did also enslave blacks-as did the Indians in our own country. It was never, nor is it now strictly or even chiefly a "white" thing,and for that matter, MOST of the slave brought to the West went straight to either the Caribbean, or to Central/South America. Those slaves taken for the Atlantic trade were taken with the full knowledge and cooperation of the tribal chieftains. In other words, THEIR OWN PEOPLE SOLD THEM! To this day tribalism/dictatorships reign supreme, and the Arabs STILL enslave the blacks-which is why the African countries will never progress to become anything other than hellholes. Yet you seem to think all was rosy then, and that no black is better off here now than he would be in say, Mugabe. Just wow. Some years ago there was a black man who DID go to Africa to see what the 'black experience' was all about. I can't recall the title or author, but he was soon convinced that any black born here is indeed better off than any black born over there. Just ask Obama's half-brother.

As for Africa being a continent rather than a country, that, along with blacks being born here in America in the first place, is the best argument AGAINST silly labels such as 'African-American' there is.

Further, there is little real use for geneaology for most of us other than that of historical interest. Like a dog that's walking on his hind legs, it's interesting, but hardly necessary. But FWIW, my ancestry goes all the way back to Adam-as does everyone's. See how easy that was?)

Aliveinhim
Bravo, could not have said it better.
Kirk

Kirk
"Akagi, am I to understand you belive black people are better off in the USA, even if they came as slaves?"

They sure are.


Mikey boy,
The Bible has taught that for a couple of years.

Akagi
I think for once we agree. I will try to get you that authur. I do believe you would enjoy it. You seam to now much on Asia, and it's culture. I am new to it, as I have just started reading about it. My history pref. have been American, Euro, and Egiption/ midle east.
Kirk

Akagi
Eileen probably doesn't want to have to forfeit half of what little she owns if she does renounce her US citizenship...

That, or else she doesn't want to get off her fat rearend, get a job, and buy her own damn ticket to Africa.

Akagi
Eileen probably doesn't want to have to forfeit half of what little she owns if she does renounce her US citizenship...

That, or else she doesn't want to get off her fat rearend, get a job, and buy her own damn ticket to Africa.

Where's the gratitude for slavery?-Pat B
With the comments turning to slavery and blacks being being better off in America, now's the perfect time to pt out Buchanan's 3/21/08 column "A Brief for Whitey" in which he wrote: "America has been the best country on earth for black folks. It was here that 600,000 black people, brought from Africa in slave ships, grew into a community of 40 million, were introduced to Christian salvation, and reached the greatest levels of freedom and prosperity blacks have ever known.....Where is the gratitude?"
Racist? Duh!

As for the rest of you defenders of American whites enslaving blacks, please post your willingness to be put in the situation of the blacks brought from Africa to be slaves in America. To be kidnapped in chains, separated from your friends, family and culture forever,transported to a completely foreign country to be enslaved, have your children enslaved for generations, again separated from your wife and children, then have your descendants be treated as blacks were treated for over 100 yrs. How many of you would gladly volunteer for that future even knowing that only after possibly hundreds of years your descendants would be allowed the full benefits of an American today?

MIKE maybe you
should study a little history. Millions of celtic people were shipped to North America by the English as slaves not indetured servants but as slaves. Many millions of Chinese were shipped here as slaves also. The experence of Africans were hardly unique.

Alive
She could move to Africa and keep her US citizenship too. It would depend on the country.

Mike:

Life for those left behind in Africa was hardly better as those left behind were often enslaved, killed, raped, split from their wives, children, husbands, etc, ripped from their cultures and on and on.

I wouldn't have wanted to be a Irish mill worker or Chinese coolie either.

Enough With The Same-Old Arguments

This article is about a governmental agency rigging the justice system with phony evidence to send an infirm and elderly and innocent man to Germany, of all places, to stand trial for something that the evidence suggests he never did. Nothing here applies to slavery.

If African-Americans are p!ssed off about the slavery in this country that ended over a century ago, then they should leave. Personally, I think that it is long since time that we all stop living in the past. Good grief, I LIVED in France and my sister still DOES even though some of our ancestors had to escape and others lost their heads to the guillotine.

Richard
The Chinese came to US of their own free will, but the treatment they were exposed to once here was little better than slavery. In 1900, the peak of pre-1949 Chinese immigration, the total population of Chinese in the US was just over 100,000. The Chinese population in the US didn't reach 1 million until the 1980s.

So perhaps it is you that needs to study history. I'd like to see a source where it claimed millions of Chinese were sent to the US as slaves. In 1865 when slavery was banned by the 13th Amendment, there was less than 60,000 inside the US.




Richard
p.s.

The great influx of Chinese was mostly due to the Taiping Rebellion (1850-1864), from 1860 to 1870 the Chinese population nearly doubled in the US and most of these were from Guangdong which is why if you go to an old Chinatown like in NYC or SF, most will speak Guangdonghua (Cantonese) and not Mandarin.

The Taiping Rebellion killed some 25 million people and left much of the south in ruins which is why many decided to make their fortunes in Jiu Jin Shan (a term for SF today, but what America was called by the Chinese in the 19th century--meaning old gold mountain)instead of starving in Guangdong.

Richard maybe you
should read my entire post(#35). If you have, you definitely need to read it again for comprehension. I said nothing of slavery being a black only experience. My comment was a response to the discussion here about blacks being better off in America and therefore justifying slavery and a citation of Pat B's column which did the same thing.

I suggest you and Aqaki read at least enough history to realize you both greatly exaggerate.

For those who missed my undeniably true point:
Even if African Americans are better off today in America, slavery is and always has been unjustifiable and indefensible.

Mike
"I suggest you and Aqaki read at least enough history to realize you both greatly exaggerate."

I've read a good deal of history actually. Blacks are better off in the US than they would be in China. The descendants of those poor peasants from Guangdong are better off than they would be in Guangdong (mostly--unless they turned out to be Yang Huiyan who is a multi-billionaire)today, this doesn't justify the ill treatment that those from China or Africa received. We are not saying slavery was good we are saying that blacks in the US are better off than they would be if their forefathers and mothers had stayed back in Africa--this is not supporting anything, but just pure fact.

and my name is AKAGI.


Gosh darn you, Aqaki
My followup comment about you needing to read more history was in response to your comment #36 "Alive" not your comments 38,39. which were posted as I was writing and posting my followup comment. So gosh darn you for the need for this clarification.

You have a valid point about the tough life of may Africans during that period but you exaggerated the extent it applied to those left behind in Africa. If you had the choice: slave in America or free person in your homeland, Africa, with the possibilities you presented WHICH would you choose?

correction
Meant blacks would be better off in the US today than in Africa just as Chinese are better off in the US than in Guangdong (mostly).

Mike
I'd pick a free person in Africa. I'd also rather be a free person without having to worry about starving to death or killed by either the Taiping Army or American/British mercernaries or the Qing Army too rather than working like a slave on the Western Pacific or in a gold mining operation or on a southern plantation (as many Chinese ended up as laborers there after the end of slavery).

This isn't about what people may want, this is simply pointing out the descendants of both African slaves and Chinese coolies are better off NOW than they would be if they were in Africa or Guangdong. What is the black per capita income in the US and what is the per capita income in Ghana or Cote D'Ivoire? Per capita income of Chinese in SF or those in rural Guangdong?


Akagi
I see you are showing off you Asian history knowlage again. Where did you study, or are you self taught? The book about china I read was Stilwell and the American experience in China, by Barbara W. Tuchman. It was long, but very good. It did explane alot about or relationship before and right after WW2.
Kirk

Akagi, Sorry about the wrong spelling
of your name. Not intentional. I'll claim temporary dyslexia.
"Their better off in America today" is the standard excuse used to justify slavery. It does not.

Denise (reply 37) Right you are. But this is a good place to pt out that Pat Buchanan's a Nazi sympathizer, anti-Semite and racist :)
If he just hadn't title this piece "The True haters and ended with the Crucifixion his commentary would be a good counterpoint to the assumption that Demjanjuk is guilty and to document a potential travesty of justice. I thought of this case when watching the "60 Minutes" piece a few ago about how eyewitnesses who are are positive in their identification of a defendant can be wrong.

Why Social Conservatives Should Join...
The Tea Parties...

http://www.parcbench.com/article_details.php?RId=127&topic= front

another holocaust is being facilitated with our tax dollars. It's time we

get more involved and take back our gov't. Download these and distribute at your tea party, or post them in your neighborhood, school or work.

http://www.fairtax.org/PDF/ads/FairTax_TeaParty_Flyer.pdf

maintguy
Ah, good old 'Vinegar Joe' Stilwell who referred to Chiang Kai-shek as 'Peanut'. He didn't have a lot of respect for the Kuomintang either. His attitude toward them was pretty typical of American attitudes of the time, and he never really took into consideration the incredible juggling act that Chaing had to perform in order to maintain the KMT's position; very much like a chess game. That sort of subtlety was, I think beyond him. Claire Chennault had a much better grasp of the difficulties facing Chaing.Getting rid of Stilwell was probably for the best.

Hey Akagi

USN
I agree that it was beond Stilwell. That said, air power alone would not have won the day.
Kirk

maintguy
"I agree that it was beond Stilwell. That said, air power alone would not have won the day.
Kirk"

I certainly agree, although if the intelligence indicating a renewed Japanese offensive was accepted, air power may have had a greater impact, although I agree most likely not enough. My statement was more referring to Chennault's greater understanding of the political intricacies of 1940's China.

Regards

Mikey Boy
How hard you work to be pip squeak, noise making, trouble maker with kaka coming out of your ears.

Mikey Boy
How hard you work to be a pip squeak, noise making, trouble maker with kaka coming out of your ears.

Melissa-PA
Yesterday, Apr 14, U wrote, Paraphrasing, "Most Of U can tace Ur ancestry back to Nation of Origin. Most African Americans can't."
I didn't respond yesterday, but feel that I MUST now do so..At the risk of being deemed Racist (and I will) I suggest to U that far too many Black children under 16 can't tell for sure who their Biological father is, much less their Great Grandfather, 3 times removed, is..It may be time to reassess ur Table of Values..As Scott Irish I look STUPID in a Kilt!!

Patty B
Patty B has had his nose up Demjanjuk's behind for years. To listen to Patty, the only person who suffered any wrong doing from World War II was Demjanjuk. Patty has never said one respectful word about the Jews who were killed by the Nazis. Patty thinks the Nazis were a bunch of swell fellows, and if they had just been left alone by England, the United States and the Soviet Union, things would have worked well for everybody. Except the millions of people killed by the Nazis, including the Jews. Is Patty a Jew hater. Please, of course.

Prior to Demjanjuk's first trial
It seemed to me (at the time) that evidence was seriously lacking. Nevertheless, because of our "close" relationhip with Israel we stipped him of citizenship and allowed him to be a participant in a "show trial." Demjanuck was sentenced to death by hanging. Fortunately, at least Israel has some kind of appellate process -- during that process it became 100% that he was not guilty of being "Ivan the Terrible." Keep in mind this guy had his whole life disrupted and served 7 years in prison first time around (while in his 60s and 70s). Now he is close to 90 years old, and this time Germany has a theory on his "war crime" status. There is really little evidcence -- there was more evidence the last time but the fact is that he was innocent before. What interest does this serve? Even if he was a camp guard, unless he was a particularly brutal guard or high ranking guard, he likely would have served a short amount of tme after WWII. He was put into work detail by the Germans after being captured. The people pushing this are really evil.

making "somebody" pay
Is one of the most hatefilled lifechoices one can make. Yet, we see it happen all of the time. A few years ago, where when the false rape charges were lodged against 3 white students. Duke professors, while this went on, pushed an interpretation of events -- the strong need to convict these students because of what white men do to women of color. Of course, these statements are no better than putting a Jew in a camp because of what "the Jews" historically did. Of course, in fact, white men rarely commit crimes against black women (however black men frequently commit violent crimes against white women). Secondly, these kids have no known connection to Jim Crow or slavery. Of course, they might allegedly "look" like somebody who benefited or enforced Jim Crow -- should't we expect a little bid more from our justice system. Ironcially, Obama has ancestoral guilt (if you believe in that sort of thing) because he actually as white ancestors who owned black selves. It appears that superbigot Jeremiah Wright (whose skin is very very light) also may have this kind of ancestry (certainly he does have some white ancestry, but that not would not necessarily that those people were slaves.
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