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Friday, April 10, 2009
Pat Buchanan :: Townhall.com Columnist
Why Europe Won't Fight
by Pat Buchanan
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"No one will say this publicly, but the true fact is we are all talking about our exit strategy from Afghanistan. We are getting out. It may take a couple of years, but we are all looking to get out."

Thus did a "senior European diplomat" confide to The New York Times during Obama's trip to Strasbourg.

Europe is bailing out on us. Afghanistan is to be America's war.

During what the Times called a "fractious meeting," NATO agreed to send 3,000 troops to provide security during the elections and 2,000 to train Afghan police. Thin gruel beside Obama's commitment to double U.S. troop levels to 68,000.

Why won't Europe fight?

Because Europe sees no threat from Afghanistan and no vital interest in a faraway country where NATO Europeans have not fought since the British Empire folded its tent long ago.

Al-Qaida did not attack Europe out of Afghanistan. America was attacked. Because, said Osama bin Laden in his "declaration of war," America was occupying the sacred soil of Saudi Arabia, choking Muslim Iraq to death and providing Israel with the weapons to repress the Palestinians.

As Europe has no troops in Saudi Arabia, is exiting Iraq and backs a Palestinian state, Europeans figure, they are less likely to be attacked than if they are fighting and killing Muslims in Afghanistan.

Madrid and London were targeted for terror attacks, they believe, because Spain and Britain were George W. Bush's strongest allies in Iraq. Britain, with a large Pakistani population, must be especially sensitive to U.S. Predator strikes in Pakistan.

Moreover, Europeans have had their fill of war.

In World War I alone, France, Germany and Russia each lost far more men killed than we have lost in all our wars put together. British losses in World War I were greater than America's losses, North and South, in the Civil War. Her losses in World War II, from a nation with but a third of our population, were equal to ours. Where America ended that war as a superpower and leader of the Free World, Britain ended it bankrupt, broken, bereft of empire, sinking into socialism.

All of Europe's empires are gone. All her great navies are gone. All her million-man armies are history. Her populations are all aging, shrinking and dying, as millions pour in from former colonies in the Third World to repopulate and Islamize the mother countries.

Because of Europe's new "diversity," any war fought in a Muslim land will inflame a large segment of Europe's urban population.

Finally, NATO Europe knows there is no price to pay for malingering in NATO's war in Afghanistan. Europeans know America will take up the slack and do nothing about their refusal to send combat brigades.

For Europeans had us figured out a long time ago.

They sense that we need them more than they need us.

While NATO provides Europe with a security blanket, it provides America with what she cannot live without: a mission, a cause, a meaning to life.

Were the United States, in exasperation, to tell Europe, "We are pulling out of NATO, shutting down our bases and bringing our troops home because we are weary of doing all the heavy lifting, all the fighting and dying for freedom," what would we do after we had departed and come home?

What would our foreign policy be?

What would be the need for our vaunted military-industrial complex, all those carriers, subs, tanks, and thousands of fighter planes and scores of bombers? What would happen to all the transatlantic conferences on NATO, all the think tanks here and in Europe devoted to allied security issues?

After the fall of the Berlin Wall, the withdrawal of the Red Army from Eastern Europe and the breakup of the Soviet Union, NATO's mission was accomplished. As Sen. Richard Lugar said, NATO must "go out of area or out of business."

NATO desperately did not want to go out of business. So, NATO went out of area, into Afghanistan. Now, with victory nowhere in sight, NATO is heading home. Will it go out of business?

Not likely. Too many rice bowls depend on keeping NATO alive.

You don't give up the March of Dimes headquarters and fund-raising machinery just because Drs. Salk and Sabin found a cure for polio.

Again, one recalls, in those old World War II movies, the invariable scene where two G.I.s are smoking and talking.

"What are you gonna do, Joe, when this is all over?" one would ask.

Years ago, we had the answer.

Joe stayed in the Army. He couldn't give it up. Soldiering is all he knew. Just like Uncle Sam. We can't give up NATO because, if we do, we would no longer be the "indispensable nation," the leader of the Free World.

And, if we're not that, then who are we? And what would we do?

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About The Author
Pat Buchanan is a founding editor of The American Conservative magazine, and the author of many books including State of Emergency: The Third World Invasion and Conquest of America .
 
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More historical revision
Europe's political leaders for the last 50 years would prefer the USA not be dominant. That has been their politics and policy. Lots of jealousy.

So much has been left out from this column, I wish the author would have presented a more balanced view.

the split on the right
Mr. B personifies possibly the biggest problem the right has in her battle for the soul of America. On one hand, you have the intellectual libertarians; everyone from Perot and Pickens to Buchanan and Ron Paul. These men don't share a common ideology, other than to avoid needless foreign adventures. But that one common goal sets them up in direct conflict with the 'god, guns and anti-gay arm of the Republican Party; the core group that takes the book of Genesis literally and still believes we can win the Vietnam War, if only a real patriot were to be elected President. And every time Glen Beck opens his mouth another ten thousand Republicans stare into their mirrors and realize that their mom didn't raise a fool who would buy into this nonsense.

You've got the pragmatists and the 'true believers' and the two groups are movng further apart every day. Its loads of fun to watch from the other side of the aisle.

Let NATO dissolve...
The sooner the better, and abolish the United Nations while you are at it. Whether we ought to be in Afghanistan is certainly debateable, but it has shown us beyond a doubt who our allies are, and who they are not. Germany and France have sent as few troops as possible, honoring only the letter of the NATO charter, not the spirit. Germany won't even let its troops fire upon the enemy! In contrast, tiny Denmark sends her troops into combat, as do brave Poland, Holland and a few other nations. Britain, Canada, Autralia and New Zealand can still be counted upon, as can Japan and S. Korea.

NATO is obsolete, and has been since the end of the Soviet empire, the UN for even longer. Dissolve these organzations, and form new alliances with allies who can be depended upon, and who can thus depend on us... and take the advice of our founders to avoid foreign entanglements. Sooner or later, other nations will have to pull their own weight, if for no other reason than we are broke.

Why Europe won't fight (II)
Mr. Buchanan, you are correct that the casualties suffered by Europe in World Wars I and II dwarf those suffered by America. However, that is besides the point. America did not start WWI; Europeans did - thus they bore the weight of the costs of that conflict. The mythology of the British and French is that they beat Germany in 1918, with minimal U.S. aid, but the truth is very different; Germany got within view of Paris before their 1918 offensive finally sputtered and died. Without the doughboys, Germany would have won that war.

In WWII, England fought alone for three years before the U.S. entered the war; if we had foought six years as had the British Empire, we'd have sustained casualties more in line with theirs. The Russians killed 8 of every 10 German soldiers killed in WWII; if anyone deserves credit for defeating the Nazis, it is they. And Russian revisionism to the contrary, they'd have lost w/o U.S. Lend-Lease aid and the Anglo-American victory in the Battle of the Atlantic. Neither did Russia possess a strategic airforce; she could not have bombed Germany into ruins as we did with the Brits.
Finally, the Soviets were able to concentrate their forces in the west, as Japan turned southward against the ABCD powers. The United States did the majority of the heavy lifting in the Pacific Theater of War, although the CW nations were mighty allies and Britain a key factor in the CBI theater.

Finally, the only reason our casualties were not significantly higher is our geography; being protected by two oceans prevented an invasion.

Outstanding observation!
You failed to mention the multitude of other "mutual" defense pacts, which we should be "bailing" on!

Please tell this to Sean Hannity
He keeps asking why Europe won't fight.

Revise This!
Human beings are a species in which the stronger among them take from the weaker -- all the dressing does not change that. We merely get little periods during which we build up the strength, once again.

THE APOCALYPSE OF THE AMERICAN LEFT
Why has socialism-the equating of justice with material equality-failed whenever and wherever it's been tried? Because the inequality of individuals is the eternal law of nature and the will of Almighty God. Because socialism is at war with the individual and his rights, at war with natural inequality, at war with nature and nature's God.

The collapse of Soviet Russia was the great sign: the ideology of socialism is bankrupt and in its end times. In our fatally flawed President, a man who's learned nothing from the atrocities of the past, from socialism's failures and the destruction of millions of lives, one sees the apocalypse of the American Left their end and demise and the reawakening of liberty: the spirit of virtue, justice, patriotism and free enterprise. Of individuls pursuing their destinies in peace and advancing the progress of our nation and mankind. But national renewal will come at the terrrible price of economic turmoil and upheaval abroad-with the enemies of freedom advancing on all sides and emboldened to strike, striking to wake us up. Great tribulation is coming my friends, but never lose heart we shall prevail and go on to thrive like never before.



Steve, laugh now
while you have the chance. party "split" can also mean spirited debate, diversity, which is better than your bolshevik like monolithic group think, i.e. forcing pro-lifers out of dem party.

All conservatives are united on having a smaller government; y'all love mommy and daddy feds meddling in your every thought.

Glad you finally admit that your side is the anti-God side.

PS everyone is against
"needless foreign adventures." Some in both dem and gop just differ on which are "needless." I tend to agree with Buchanan; it is called the Department of Defense, after all, not the Department of Attack, or the Dep. of Empire Maintenance. But i think it was your boy Clinton who put us in Serbia; that should have been Europe's call, I mean, Eurabia.

No American kid should die
for this administration . . . what a crock. I would prefer to see all our troops flee to Canada than fight for this scumbag of a President.

World Cop
Pat, as much as I like him, has always been an isolationist. And practicing that philosophy in a world of intercontinental missiles and nuclear weapons is pure stupidity. We have to be involved now, and every day, in the future of the world or the barbarians will reach our shores one way or another.

It's a dirty job but someone has to do it.

Why team with Europe?
France violates all of the trade embargos. What is her punishment? Nothing!!

Europe has turned its military into another social program where most of the military budget is spent on an aging personnel and little is spent on armaments. Europe through its population policy has self-extinguished itself. The only people there are the Muslims from the Middle East and Africa that are quite content to have 10 children and repopulate the country.

Forget Europe. It died a long time ago

NATO
Various respondents' 'this or that' wordplay notwithstanding, the overarching point of this article is that NATO has lost its raison d'etre and with it goes that of the cabal of fossilized holdover cold warriors who would deservedly fade away without a continuing crisis. It's time to call a halt. NATO has become not much more than a job security program for international bureaucrats...but a very dangerous one. A committed tripwire for potential nuclear war. As Pat so appropriately commented in one of his previous columns..."Are we insane?"

Ps: I agree with Georgia Boy regarding the UN. Get the US out of the UN and the UN out of the US! But I disagree with forming new alliances. I defer to the words of George Washington and Thomas Jefferson regarding friendship and commerce with all. Political entanglements with none.

Jerseyvet
I'm sure we share a belief in a strong defense. But for us and our vital interests. Not everything can be our vital interest, or we get overextended. No nation of 330 million can police a planet of 6 billion. Ask the Roman and British empires.

Indeed
I see no need in us fighting in the Middle East. There is no reason why Midwestern and Southern boys and girls need to risk life and limb for a world that despises us and a nation that has abandoned them.

Let Islamic terrorist kill as many New Yorkers, Californians and other blue staters as they want. Let those kids enlist and fight for their security.

Let all the young Americans who consider themselves citizens of the world, if they think at all, sink or swim in that world without the protection of white suburbanites whose patriotism is now being exploited and mocked by these hipster punks.

The lives of all the globe and all of our domestic progressives is not worth one life of a real American.

The next time we see tall buildings on fire with Obama voters leaping out of the top floors, the rest of us should just sit back, eat our popcorn and debate what they did to enrage the Arab street.

Jeez ....
I think that just about covers it. Once the Lord Obama has completely broken the nation with the assistance of the masses and their elected representatives, the issue will resolve itself.
Europe will be a Soviet satellite and Asia will be the property of the Chinese Empire. America will have become some kind of feudal fiefdom blowing in the winds of multi-culturalism and diversity and the imagined rights of every aggrieved group.
Do you suppose the Chinese will allow Americans to holiday in Hawaii?

Pat's Quantum Leap
This article will forever be known as the BQL: Buchanan's quantum leap and I'm not being cute here. Buchanan stands at a distance here and speculates in the old sense of the term, philosophy. It's the Roman Catholic in him.

I don't know the answer, but I know that Mr. Buchanan is onto something here.

Somewhere between Krauthammer's interests, which I just read about, and Buchanan's, which I just read about, lies the "National Interest."

Mr. President: You, too, know about physics, today's physics, not Newton's. You know something about the "play" of the quantum realities: Is it a particle, or is it a wave? No matter. America has got to do something, philosophize if necessary (worse has come to worse)...in order to get out of the life-threatening mess it is in.

In the meantime, I say we beef up our military in all aspects, not reduce it!

Ha.
Europe may not fight, and may be jealous of the US and what we actually stand for- as opposed to the COW turning us into appeasers and apologists, but don't ever forget, should they need help who they will come to.

The good ol US of A. Because no matter what, they know who has the power to save them. When in Germany in the 80's, I always found it comical to watch their Army guarding our gates. They looked like ridiculous fools with no authority. And now, the local forces still "guard" Landstuhl, albeit, now a secured post. Europe will always come running.

Bitterness
Mr. Buchanan, this article has a number of fine observations and points well worthy of discussion and debate. However, your conclusion betrays the bitter tinge of your own irrelevancy and loss of ideal, reflected on the nature of Americanism. Fortunately, the truth is far from your wallow of self-pity and self-flagellation; the USA has traditionally been an isolationist nation and survived quite nicely with a minimum of engagement with the rest of the world. That we are deeply engaged now reflects a sense of responsibility which apparently eludes you, Mr. Buchanan. Shame on you.

Europe fought before for Bush
Regardless what Biden said, Bush was a leader. Leaders from other countries follows a leader like Bush. Who thinks for a moment Europe would follow President Obama anywhere. President Obama hasn't prove he has the metal Bush had to do the job of protecting this country and rallying our allies. In fact President Obama reversed so many of the Bush policies he may have weakened this country, where the polices President Obama reversed might have to be debated, to get them restored when time and information is most important. President Obama is the way for Europe to back out. They wouldn't have backed out so quickly with Bush. Europe hasn't forgotten the anti war rhetoric of the anti war protesters and the Democrats about going it alone. President Obama might just be going it alone and making those claims come true. Who would have thought the claim of going it alone thrown at Bush by the Democrats would be President Obama's reality.

Let's come home
Pat,

If we reduce our involvement in NATO to a minimal level, close most of our European bases, and bring our folks home, we'll be a better nation for it and Europe will once again responsible for handling its own defense.

The Cold War is over, NATO has become nearly irrelevant and we've more important things on our plate to worry about. It's time to write a new mission statement.

Economically speaking, think of all the money and jobs we'll pump back into the U.S. economy if we bring the troops home, with new bases, new housing, and new infrastructure needed all around the country. Are we really defending anyone from our bases in Germany and Italy or are we just keeping them open in order to support THEIR local economies?

Our President claims that he can cut $50 billion from the Pentagon's budget by improving procurement practices. Hogwash! However, if he strongly reduces our presence in Europe, $50 billion will look like chump change.

Maybe this is a "change" we can believe in.

Most of us here,
with the exception of Steve, seem to agree with much of Pat's observations.
Jersey, I'm not so sure that we need to be there, anymore, to know what's going on. This time of global communications has made the world much smaller. Maybe, it's time to condense our area of indispensable interests.
Handsome, your way too mean. After all, I'm from the northeast coast, and share no ideology or politics with the majorities here, ...there are a few of us.
I, perhaps like some of you, have given my oath to our country, but I am at terrible odds with it's government. I do not believe they have the best interests of it's people at heart. And I believe they know that about we that will keep our oath.
Let's get our troops home and think hard before we join in the effort to improve someone else's life again. Europe has taught me this hard lesson, that our forefathers already knew.

How true.....
"For Europeans had us figured out a long time ago. They sense that we need them more than they need us."

The whole world has us figured out Mr. B, they all talk trash until they need us. No news here, other than that Europe is no more. WW2 killed too many of true Europeans and unfortunately most of the replacements came from Muslim countries who have firmly entrenched themselves in all of Europe.



It is our identity that is the problem
individually and as a nation.

"If the light that is in you is darkness, then how great is that darkness."

The US of A , this precious country is groping and the world could care less. Much of the world has chosen its darkness and is satisfied. The US and its people haven't woken up to its condition, The country doesn't know it has lost its way.

Even So, Come Lord Jesus

Excellent Article Mr. Buchannan.

PULL OUT OF NATO FIRST

.....THEN THE UNITED NATIONS ...

.....AMERICA is 1/3 of a continent ...we only need to trade with Mexico and Canada ...who needs Europe, the Middle East or Asia? ...

.....Use the money we save by closing our foreign bases to perfect our anti-missle defense systems and satelites ...

.....Deport those who claim to be citizens of the World and restore American soverneignty .....COLOSSUS

Misunderstanding Pat
I believe a couple of respondents have misinterpreted Pat's closing comments. Those comments to wit:

"We can't give up NATO because, if we do, we would no longer be the 'indispensable nation,' the leader of the Free World. And, if we're not that, then who are we? And what would we do?"

These questions were obviously posed rhetorically in a mocking and facetious vein aimed at neocon crisis-mongerers and to people of the likes of Madelaine Albright. Pat's foreign policy positions have always been of political disentanglement.



Isolationalist
Seems by the other comments, people might be missing Pat's point. Pat is simply laying out a reason to isolate ourselves from the rest of the world because we are basically useless anyway. Pat is trying to minimalize our importance in the world and the ultimate futility in our attempts to keep the world safe. Pat also is not a supporter of Israel which will soon play the central role in the next uphevial within the region. Muslims are simply not going to let Israel live in peace. The scary scenario that Pat has alluded to is a Europe that is so overwhelmed by muslim immigrants that it will not have the will to defend Israel. After all, the muslims will tell us that they will behave if we will hand Israel to them on a golden platter. Unfortunately still live in a dangerous world. I wish we could all go home and drink latte's like the Europeans do but that is not reality. We must FIGHT, FIGHT, FIGHT!

BECAUSE THEY'RE JUST LIKE JOHN KERRY
PUT JOHN KERRY ON OSAMA’S TRAIL
Right after he is done solving the Somali pirates problem.

http://greensrealworld.blogspot.com/2009/04/somali-pirates- beware-john-f.html


War and Peace
It's being reported that the Somali pirates vow to fight if attacked.

Oh no, another quagmire! Another Vietnam! This war is lost. We can't win. We must withdraw now. What's the plan, what is the time table, what's our exit stragegy!

Once again American imperialism and capitalist gangsterism has drawn us into conflict. American unilateralism got us into this mess when the crew retook the ship. Now see what they've done. They should have used diplomacy with the pirates, reached out across the aisle in a spirit of collaboration and compromise, shown tolerance of cultural diversity, and perhaps bowed. Didn't our own president bow to an Arab shiek last week? See, if he can do it, so can the rest of us.

No more war! Bring the boys home! Hell no, we won't go. Ho Ho Ho Chi Minh!!!

I wonder
What was our vital interest in saving Europe from Hitler, Hitler never threatened us.

Problem with Europe they have castrated themselves and forgot where there testicles are.

As long as we carry the water at no expense in money or treasure why would they do the right thing. Easier to stay home and be condescending pricks to US.

What we could have done.
If we closed down NATO and the UN and stopped spending trillions defending an ungrateful useless Europe we might just might have the money and resources to become a pioneering nation again. For the cost of the bases on England we could have a real American space station, for the cost of the bases in Europe we could have bases on the moon. For the cost of the Navy newest super carrier whose only real use is to defend Europe or Japan we could have man missions to Mars and the Asteroid belt.

We could explore, expand, and exploit the solar system and once again become a great nation. That was the real destiny of the United States we lose that in the 1960’s when liberals decide we had to instead be the world policeman. I’m afraid we have lost our chance for true greatest when we lost sight of out true destiny. Given what passes for leadership today we are doomed to become a little useless people just like Europeans.

Good ole Pat at it again
I'm sure you read with interest, Pat, that many Pakistanis were caught in England a few days before going on a bombing spree. I'm sure you think none of these people came across the border from Afghanistan a few years back, or that none of these people were radicalized by those who fled from our bombing campaign.

Reality doesn't match your appraisal of things. It appears that more intervention and cooperation are required, not less. You don't get rid of NATO with a growing China, a resurgent Russia, a nuclear Iran and Korea, and a menacing Islam. But as is consistent with you, something that's not perfect should be dropped. Classic Pat Buchanan.

That countries haven't figured out the threats to their existence yet doesn't argue in favor of splitting what cooperation currently exists.

Jimbo I wouldn't
call the USA doing all the work, paying all the bills, spilling all the blood while the other guy gets the free ride cooperation. I'd say we are infected with parasites and its long past time we did something about getting rid of the parasites. Left alone mistoe will kill the strongest oak.

Richard
I'm not saying we need to DEPEND on NATO, only that we use it and keep it around as a final contingency -- of an overseas variety. If they're unwilling to help in Afghanistan, we should look elsewhere for help. Maybe the time is here to drop it...especially given European perfidy time and again. But with a resurgent Islam and Iran & and emergence of N. Korea and China and Russia, we want to have some semblance of deterence against their staggering numbers. We should probably have an Eastern Euro Treaty Organganization (Poland, Czech Rep, Ukraine, etc.); a Pacific-Indian Oceans Treaty Oranization (Australia, S. Korea, Japan, the Philipines, India, and the mighty Fiji); an African Continent Treaty Orangization; and a South-Central America Treaty Organization. Friends should be found where we can find them...our enemies need to know their unholy alliances will be counterbalanced. Why is that wrongheaded?

Fantastic article!
" We can't give up NATO because, if we do, we would no longer be the "indispensable nation," the leader of the Free World.

And, if we're not that, then who are we? And what would we do? "

War-weary Europe has it pegged - war without end is not tenable.

We need to construct a peace-waging force funded at the same level as the war-waging one. If that happened, we would truly revolutionize the world and secure our place in history.

If not, we'll just be another in a long list of failed empires.

Europe won't fight
716BC93606 As a British ww11 war vet maybe I can shed a little light here. First, Brits don't consider themselves Europeans. Second, their per capita spending on defense approaches that of the U.S. Any European, or Brit for that matter, that doesn't know that the U.S. played a huge role in the victory of ww11 is living in a dreamworld. I served with an Indian Division in Burma and that battle was the longest batle in ww11. We played a role in the defeat of the Japanese. I believe we should get out of Nato and the U.N., secure our borders and let continental Europe fend for itself. The money for the bases and the means to defend all of those former Soviet Republics that Dubya had in mind would bankrupt us, if we are not yet bankrupt. Stick with the Brits, Canadians, Australians, New Zealanders and whomever we know we can count on and let the rest of them fly a bloody kite. We do not have the forces, manpower to fight all these brushwar fires that the neo cons bray about. Britain was the International gendarme and look what it cost them. U.S.A. first, last and always.

William writes....
I totally agree. Europe needs to tend its own protection. If the USA we not chasing all over the globe bashing bad guys we could reduce defense budget drastically and still maintain the best military the world has ever seen and choose our engagement wisely. Europe is so used to having the USA to lean on it has become dependent even though they don't want to admit it.

We should dump NATO, bring home the troops from Europe, close European bases, shrink our blue water Navy to cover our Western and Eastern coasts and get out of the UN. The World would squeal like a stuck pig if we did these things because they know what kind of Hell awaits them if Uncle Sam were to go home. I say let them eat cake.

paranoidmystic - my thought exactly
1. Why are we fighting on the other side of the planet?
2. What's the role of our military?
3. Why are those who argue that we trade blood for oil, the exact crowd that won't drill for our own oil? Explain that one. It's total b.s..

Maybe We Should Test the Europeans.
When I was in the military, mid to late 70's, there was a lot of animosity left from Vietnam. Most of the civilians around the bases I was at were not all that friendly to us. Some were outright hostile. But, talk about closing those bases and listen to them cry about how it will wreck their local economy. They wanted the money, but they were intolerant of the people.

I believe Europe is that way with regards to America. They love to ridicule and make fun of us, but they rely heavily on our protection and our money. Our protection has allowed them to minimize their defense spending (with the UK being an exception) and use that money to promote their social, progressive, societies. They then mock us because we are not as "enlightened" as them on social issues, such as "free" healthcare for all.

So, let's let them stand on their own two feet and look into the Russian and Chinese eyes and trust what they are saying. Let them worry about their own defenses. Let's see how they handle that test. I don't often agree with isolationist theories, but I may be coming around after Europe basically gave us the finger on Afghanistan. So be it. Let them stand up for themselves the next time they need our assistance. I'm getting rather tired of their boorish behavior towards us.

God Bless William
Sir I'd like to say first and foremost you are a man of honor. I'd just like to say to you that America was born a country of Englishmen. The English alone brought freedom to America under Englands guidance. Englishmen of extreme forebearance, hearts filled with wonder, and love of their families, and their love of freedom established this nation under the most severe of circumstances. Englishmen turned into Americans who just wanted to be left in freedom.
Even the most loving mother at times becomes overbearing and forgets her love for her children when she is the most afraid of losing them. Thus America was born...but Sir we do not forget where we came from.
Long live England

Maybe We Should Test the Europeans
Joel says "I believe Europe is that way with regards to America. They love to ridicule and make fun of us, but they rely heavily on our protection and our money."

Joel you are so wrong. Europeans and Americans are buried together in graveyards across both continents, across history. Some marked, most unmarked. We have fought each other yes but when it came down to it we fought as brothers in arms moretimes than not. It was the English who bred us. It was the French who saved our nation when General Washington needed help the most. It was the Polish who bled with us behind enemy lines at great sacrifice during WWII. It was the Irish who made up an overwhelming proportion of our troops during the civil war. The Chinese who gave their lives and grew with us building our country, and railroads across the west. The Italians who gave our cities life and culture and yes even fought with us in mass against the Germans. The Germans who helped build the west and NASA. The Spanish who ....mmmm....wait I'm thinking....yep we fought them alot but they are ....mmmmm wait I'm still thinking.....
Just a few examples.....
The European people are much like us. They tend to judge us by our government as we do to them. The fact is that when it came down to life and liberty, when it meant the most, we were brothers in the most trying of times. I suspect strongly that we still are.

Europe has no stones
Pat. Great read.
Europe is a continent of metrosexuals unwilling to stand up and fight. As noted we have down all the heavy lifting.
Let's leave them to their own devices and when sharia law rules them we will have the last laugh. Fools. Liberalism destroyed them as much as war.

Europe has no stones
Viking says "Let's leave them to their own devices and when sharia law rules them we will have the last laugh. Fools. Liberalism destroyed them as much as war."

I say you know nothing of history. This is not the first time that this has happened. A primary cause of the crusades I would say is an apt example........you Sir may be more of a fool than those you point fingers at.

Western Europe has given million of lives over centuries of history to preserve their faith in God and to preserve their belief in Freedom.

One question Sir.

Where do you think you came from?

Pat forgets one thing at his writing
It is not Governments that rule men. It is Men that rule Governments. It matters not what Governments decide is best for us, it is what we decide is best for our Governance.

If you have 1000 troops in the field with bayonettes at our throat to make us bend to your will I will say that we will have 100 to make you bend to ours. The founders new this principle of life.

Forget Nato, it is after all, when it comes down to it, not about Generals, Kings, or Foreign Dignataries. It's about us.

In freedom we rule our lives. To do otherwise is to deny the rights you have. The rights not given by man, but by God.


Richard Nixon . . .
though vilified for his political peccadillos got one thing right. When he visited france, he endured a tirade from charles degaulle about "ugly American imperialism". and how Americans were polluting french (and european) culture to which he replied "should we take our war dead home too?". The silence from chucky degaulle was priceless.

Nixon
Charles de Gaulle (1890 - 1970)
History has a way of telling the truth from beyond the grave.....
The quote came from an American Army officer at the end of WWII when the French wanted their national honor back and to stand on their own.......Statesmen at times forget sacrifice in the blinding light of salvation.

Charles de Gaulle died before Nixon became President.

More historical revision
Anderson659 writes "Europe's political leaders for the last 50 years would prefer the USA not be dominant. That has been their politics and policy. Lots of jealousy."

I say it is not a matter of jealousy. It is just a matter of human nature. If there is jealousy so be it, understand it, and get past it. Every family on this planet harbors jealousy towards their own brothers, sisters, friends, neigbors in some minute fasion. It does not detract, in the end, from the love they hold for each of them. It is a consequence of being human.

Sky
Richard Nixon took the Oath of Office in 1969.

If De Gaulle died in 1970-----------

Getting out of Afghanistan
When his chosen people demanded a king to protect them from their enemies instead of believing in their God to protect them, because they were afraid, and wanted to be like other nations,.....God said "Let them have a king."

He knew they would fail and willingly let them fail.....because of love, not because of spite.

Of Afghanistan.....I say the same......let them fail....either they will fight or become slaves......






Oilpatch
Never trade those deeds of men who have earned honor in war, and in history, for the right to say I was right.

Very Good Question
At times I worry about this country and then some. Anger and resentment, contempt and disbelief--emotions run the gamut.

But where else could a guy from working class roots work his way through school and grad school after leaving home--at age eighteen--to teach for twenty-five years and during all this time extremely addicted to good books, good articles, spirited discussion?

And I'm not alone. Lots of guys and gals have fallen in love with literature serious and not so serious, enlightening and not so enlightening.

We bring this learning, this passion for insight, to Pat's question: What will America do? The question is a critical one at this juncture. We have to rely on the experts, especially those who have received exceptional educations. Including from the school of hard knocks.

Students of Pat Buchanan are out there--reading, working, acting in the arena, celebrating the question marks right along with him.

Students of Leo Strauss and Harry Jaffa are also out there--reading, governing, experimenting, making it up as they go along.

Athens, Jerusalem and Rome: These are just three of many standards in history that we look to. The British Empire as Pat discusses it--this too deserves another look. Those of us who were born, say, in 1951, have a wealth of experience and reading to draw upon. I keep coming back to G.K. Chesterton and Bishop Sheen.

William-VA
I very much appreciated Ur Post.. I agree we should IMMEDIATELY send the UN packing, to where I don't know or care.. Just BE GONE!! I can tell U that the Aussies and New Zealanders did themselves Proud in the NAM..The South Korean White Horse soldiers as well.. Hope Ur having a good stay here.. God Blesss!!

Limp-wristed Panzies
The Europeans don't fight because they're a bunch of limp-wristed panzies. I have (sadly) witnessed the following:

1. During an operation in Afghanistan, the first thing out of the mouths of the most rough-and-tumble killers Europe has to offer was concern for "women and children" on the objective.

2. I've been told by a French Colonel that they "must re-learn how to fight," because they've grown so soft.

Yes, count on the Europeans for nothing (with a few exceptions such as the Poles). We're on our own in the world - good time to withdraw from NATO.

America's mistakes/ today's Europe
America screwing up Iraq probably has a lot to do with us not etting help in Afghanistan. Given now that 9/11 was 7 1/2 years ago, it is unclear why we should still be there. I would want to reserve the option to go in there (or any place) where active operations are planned against America -- but Afghanistan is likely going to be fighting itself for quite a time. Most locals probably do not want Arabs like Bin Laden planning operations against America. Our screw ups in Iraq -- a country having NOTHING to do with 9/11 -- and the huge cost of Iraq ($2 trillion) -- with a result where Christians of Iraq have been killed in the thousands, women have fewer rights, and Iran gained power -- has undermined much of our credibility on military planning.

aside from our plans, Europe's decline
is tragic. It is sad that so much of Western Europe encourages "diverse" people who enjoy killing critcs like Theo Van Gogh or burning buildings in Denmark when someone draws cartoons. On the other hand, if you question whether somebody who believes in having multiple wives, genital mutilation or mandatory head coverings should be allowed in a Western Country -- you are labeled a "racist." I like the fact that the government is tolerant in many countries -- but it should not tolerate radical muslims. It is similar on American campuses -- a Muslim can say how wonderful Islam is for women, but former Harvard President Lawrence Summers (who is a liberal) cannot even rhetorically suggest that men and women may have intellectual differences. See, it is fine for a Muslim to defend Saudi Arabia or Iran's treatment of women -- but you cannot even suggest that men and women might be intellectually different on some level (assuming you are not a Muslim -- a Muslim probably could do that). It is very sad that so called feminists will decry anyone who says that the glass ceiling is exaggerated -- but will ignore Islamic culture. Is it fear, or is it political correctness? Either way, it is sick.

Buchanan is right
Our entire outlook on foreign policy is obsolete. Our involvement in NATO, the UN and garrisons of American troops on foreign soil is obsolete. Whenthese policies were established, the US was a creditor nation, selling vast amounts of goods to smashed up western nations who were (and are) our natural allies.
The deserved shelterunder our military umbrella. But for some years now, we can't afford to defend the western world by ourselves. Its time we bring our troops home, participate in NATO at a minimum level, support the UN with troops only at the level the rest of the world does. Does Russia or China have troops in Cyprus? We do, and we are paying. Why? Its time to tend our own garden.

We will be hearing more of this...
From a previous poster above: "We need to construct a peace-waging force funded at the same level as the war-waging one. If that happened, we would truly revolutionize the world and secure our place in history."

Most of us know what they have in mind, and the result of this, if not the poster.

Another poster speaks with the moral authority of a confused liberal mind that has become confronted with the realities of nature, that only age can bring to such a mind.
Yes, we are descendants of Europe however, our culture is not such a composite. Those minds that took such chances, struggled, and persevered against the cruelties of nature and man were not the norm of Europe. They were driven by the goodness of man and not the avarice. No, we are not the sons and daughters of the norm of Europe. This culture is the result of a special human mind, character,and personality of primarily English descendants.
Stand back and watch the Europeans, we went there several times before to save them from each other. It won't take long, they will be blaming each other when we leave. And it will start over again.
This time... this time... it will be different.

Steve
Pat isn't a libertarian. Libertarians support free trade and liberal (used in the non-political context)immigration policies, Pat supports neither. What he is is a paleo-Republican circa 1931.

Qtaug
"You failed to mention the multitude of other "mutual" defense pacts, which we should be "bailing" on!"

And most of those are for the benefit mostly of the US--allowing it to base troops far from its home to project its power into regions it feels are critical such as the western Pacific.

The CVNs that Pat mentions? Even if NATO vanished tomorrow, those would still be needed and used for the Middle East and the Pacific. How many CVNs are usually in European waters anyway?

Jerseyvet
"It's a dirty job but someone has to do it."

Exactly right. And for the isolationists around here, who would you rather in charge, the PRC? Russia? Does the PLAN controlling the Asian sea lanes really further your own interests? What Pat has never understood is this is not 1791 nor 1931. Isolationism showed its folly on 12-7-1941 or for that matter 9-11-2001 when the US basically ignored Al Qaeda. The US can't simply hide in its shell and pretend everything will be fine. It won't.


Dellas


"I agree with Georgia Boy regarding the UN. Get the US out of the UN and the UN out of the US! But I disagree with forming new alliances. I defer to the words of George Washington and Thomas Jefferson regarding friendship and commerce with all. Political entanglements with none."

The US in the UN actually serves the US interest. If not US, no UN and then it would be US troops in places with no vital US interests like East Timor or the Green Line in Cyprus. US troops would invite attacks as one side or the other would view the US as taking sides or want to attack the US and blame it on the other side in the hopes the US would enter the conflict on its side. The UN also provides US cover at times when it wants to pursue its own interests under the guise of the "will of the international community" such as the Gulf War in 1991.

UNHQ at Turtle bay is International Territory. As for Washington, this is not 1799 when the US was a small insignificant country clinging to the eastern seaboard, but a world power with interests throughout the world. Those alliances serve the US interests and allow the US to project its power pursuing its interests far from its own shores. Without them, US projection of power would be much more limited and much more difficult. Japan is less than an hour from the Taiwan Strait by air. Bases in Italy have been used to hit targets in Iraq, those in the UK were used to attack Libya. How much harder would those missions have been if the US assets were based in the US instead.

JMartin
" No nation of 330 million can police a planet of 6 billion."

And it doesn't. Just ask those in East Timor, Rwanda, and in Darfur. It does though engage in areas it sees vital to it's interests--mostly South Asia, the Middle East, the Pacific and Latin America. Apart from South Asia due to terrorism, these areas have been viewed as key areas of US interests for at least the last 70 years and in some for more than a century.

JD
"I see no need in us fighting in the Middle East."

Outside of the proven oil reserves and an area the US has seen as vital for at least 70 years.

I'd bet many of those traders, etc killed in the WTC attacks were GOP voters. The Pentagon was also attacked if I recall, and a good bit of the US military seem to vote GOP. So you only support helping Americans if they vote GOP, how odd.

David
"What was our vital interest in saving Europe from Hitler, Hitler never threatened us."

I suppose you missed the declaration of war by Germany on the US days after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor? Seems like a threat to me or were you trying to be sarcastic?

US out of Afghanistan

Wow, is Pat correct. If Europeans, who are much closer to Afghanistan and have bigger Muslim populations than we, have had one foot out the Afghan door from the outset, that should have told us something from the get-go. Afghanistan is about to be our new Vietnam, with Obama as the new Johnson. We've done all we can there. Let's worry more about the real menace: Islamofascist sleeper cells in the US, about whom we've done little.

Europe will not fight
The world turns, things change. Europe will no longer fight because its interests and population have drastically changed since WWII. As Islam spreads through Europe it is hard for Europe to take up arms against the countries of its new population. It is beginning to show us all a glimpse its future now, and that future is of Eurabia not Europe.

NATO is no longer what it was, and no longer useful for the very same reasons that Europe will no longer fight for civilization. And we all know that the UN is now The Gong Show!

It is time to consider our future. Time to consider the formation of a new alliance for the 21st Century with the USA, Great Britain, Canada, Australia, Israel, Poland, New Zealand, Japan, the Dutch and the Danes, and the Satelite Countries of the former USSR. And any country that wants to maintain a civilized world. Russia will wither and die as its male population implodes. China, confronted with powerful alliance, founded on civilization rather than anarchy, will opt for peace and free-trade rather than supporting gadflys like N. Korea, Venezeula, and Iran. While this can only happen in the post Obama era, it is time to envision that future now.
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