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Tuesday, February 24, 2009
Pat Buchanan :: Townhall.com Columnist
Courage, Mr. Holder
by Pat Buchanan
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Lecturing a conscript conclave of Justice Department bureaucrats, Attorney General Eric Holder last week called America a "nation of cowards" for not spending more time talking about race.

Reading his speech, however, one recalls the sage counsel of Pat Moynihan to President Nixon in 1970: This whole subject might benefit from a long period of "benign neglect."

One point Holder did allude to, without specifics, was this:

"It is not safe for this nation to assume that the unaddressed social problems in the poorest parts of the country can be isolated and will not ultimately affect the larger society."

Fair point. And what are some of those social problems?

A 70 percent illegitimacy rate in black America, an incarceration and crime rate seven times that of white America, a 50 percent dropout rate in many urban high schools, African-American graduates reading and computing on average at eighth-grade levels.

And about these problems what is the black leadership doing?

Unlike Bill Cosby, the heroic Holder was virtually mute. Rather, he is upset that "on Saturdays and Sundays" we don't go to church or hang out together. But why are the free associations of Americans, of whatever creed or color, any of Eric Holder or Big Brother's business?

Having insulted us, perhaps Holder will start doing his own sworn duty. For one area where he has a lead role is enforcing the nation's laws -- in particular, the U.S. immigration laws. For the federal failure to enforce these laws is a contributory cause of one of those "unaddressed social problems in the poorest parts of the country."

Case in point -- rampant unemployment among minority youth.

According to the Center for Immigration Studies, among African-Americans 18 to 29 with only a high-school degree, unemployment is now 20 percent. Among black adults who do not have a high-school diploma, it is 24 percent. Among teenagers under 18, black unemployment is 30 percent.

Among native-born Hispanics with only a high-school diploma, the unemployment rate is 13.6 percent. Among high-school dropouts, 16 percent. Among Hispanic 16- and 17-year-olds, the jobless figure is 40 percent.

As these figures were compiled in December, before the last two months of sweeping layoffs, they surely understate the situation. And with both black and Hispanic dropout rates now reaching 50 percent in major cities, the social dynamite is piling up.

Last month, USA Today reported that the FBI estimates there are now 1 million gang members in the United States -- up 200,000 from 2005 -- and these gangs are responsible for 80 percent of all U.S. crimes.

From other studies, young Hispanics are 19 times as likely as white youth to join gangs, while African-Americans are 15 times.

These millions of teenagers, and unskilled and less-educated young adults with no jobs and little prospect of finding them, are recruiting pools for criminal gangs.

Who is getting the jobs for which these native-born black and Hispanic young could quality? Illegal aliens hold literally millions of them.

Last week, the CIS reported, "An estimated 6 to 7 million illegal immigrants are currently holding jobs. Prior research indicates they are overwhelmingly employed in lower-skilled and lower-paid jobs."

Exactly what sort of jobs?

"Illegals are primarily employed in construction, building cleaning and maintenance, food preparation, service and processing, transportation and moving occupations and agriculture."

With the exception of agriculture, a majority of the workers in these occupations are native-born Americans. Thus, illegal aliens are taking jobs Americans are not only willing to do, but are doing, and taking 7 million of these jobs from young Americans now out of work.

By failing to enforce U.S. immigration laws, the government of the United States is selling America's working class down the river.

In addition to the 7 million illegals holding jobs, legal immigrants have another 15 million. In 2008, when Americans lost 3.5 million jobs, 144,000 immigrants were admitted every month.

Why do we have an open-borders immigration policy that annually allows in millions, legal and illegal, to compete for jobs, when 10 million Americans are out of work and half a million are losing their jobs every month? The political correctness and moral cowardice of our Lords Temporal, who refuse to call a time-out on immigration until our own people go back to work, is killing the American dream for millions.

According to the census, as reported in The New York Times on Saturday, 97 percent of immigrants from Mexico do not speak English at home. They are less skilled and less educated than the average American.

Says demographer William Frey, "The new immigration magnets especially in the Southwest are disproportionately attracting young Mexican men who are willing to accept low wages."

What further proof is needed that mass immigration from the Third World is taking jobs from Americans and driving down their wages when they do find work?

Here is a problem more serious than whether black and white elites are getting together on weekends to gabble about race.

But, dealing with it, Mr. Holder, will take courage.

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About The Author
Pat Buchanan is a founding editor of The American Conservative magazine, and the author of many books including State of Emergency: The Third World Invasion and Conquest of America .
 
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What is The AG, perhaps the forth or. .
fifth most important Federal Position? Obviously I don't know, but I know Bobby Kennedy did a helluva lot with it, for minorities I might add.

So here is the AG whining about nothing that will bring any results except to cause discord and perhaps embarass the Administration a bit.

Well if he can fill Bobby Kennedy's shoes he had better quit whining and get at it. He already has shown an ineptness which is not beoming his position. Dumb...

LettersToPOTUS.com

Five Stars
Holder won't touch this with a ten foot pole. He simply wants to use this to beat whites over the heads with along with a concurrent objective of bringing in enough minorities, legal or illegal, that they can control for election purposes.

I would love to talk about Race.

Let talk about the 2000 Blacks that were hung by a tree in the south between the end of the civil war and the 1930's

Let compare that to the tens of thousands of Whites who were murdered by Blacks since the end of the great depression.

Lets talk about who is full of hate. Who is violating whose civil rights, who is guilty of racism.

3 Words . . . .
for Mr. Holder:


Go Screw Yourself!

OverTheTop.
Buchanan has gone the same route as Mr. Holder. All his stuff about jobs and illegals, legals, black and hispanic non-workers, and workers, all that stuff, is as wrong as anything said by Holder.

From Buchanan's little involvement in our military (ROTC), he may have heard the training term, "There's always that 10%." Of course, now, after LBJ's Great Society, or War on Poverty or whatever it was, that 10% has become 15, 20% of everybody -- white citizens included.

When you've got 15, 20% of the entire population not holding up their end -- they have no intention of working -- you've got jobs available for legals and illegals. Face up to that fact, and quit the BS.

That said, and because of the position he is now in, I agree, Holder's speech denotes him an idiot.

Obama's Plantation
Obama and the Democrat/Liberals do not want to do the hard thing and help these people--blacks and Hispanics--to get jobs. They would rather just dole out welfare and condemn them to a life of servitude to a Democrat regime. That is the plantation style of government that keeps the Democrats in power. So-called compassion cripples rational policies in relation to immigration and the poor black, broken households. Democrats say in effect, "Vote for me and the check will be in the mail." That is the tragedy and almost criminal intent of Democrat politicians, including the current White House incumbent.

Buchanan makes some great points.
On a somewhat related point, I think Al Sharpton has one hell of alot of nerve in attacking the "New York Post" and Murdoch's media empire on the issue on what I agree to be a stupid cartoon appearing in the paper, given Sharpton's involvement on the Crown Heights' racially motivated murders, and the Tawana Brawley matter.

While I utterly despise the lack of intelligent debate and sloppiness of thought among faux righties that now has come to represent what had formerly been reasonable and rationale conservative ideology, much of the fear of being honest on matters pertaining to race emanates from the Left, not the Right.

Lefties are the ones swigging on the swill of political correctness and advocating "hate speech free zones" on campuses.

Sorry, Mr. Holder
But I will remain completely mute on the topic of race and will continue to isolate myself to the extent possible from all things black unless and until certain facts can be acknowledged without dispute, such as those pointed out by Buchanan. If a dialog on race means having to listen meekly to a diatribe about the sins of whites and certain facts about crime, illegitimacy, education, etc., are constantly disputed or rationalized, then I will remain mute and distant from you in my world. Don't like it? TOUGH!

hung by a tree?
Your sentance needs reworking but having said that my Grandmother told me "tow wrongs never make a right.". Using any excuse to hate another person for whatever reason makes the one who is hating smaller and far less than they might become. Lets get over the past hates and learn from those that worked to make all men free. That would include our brave military as well as the 10's of thousands that ran the underground railway most of whom were Christian, white and male.

tow wrongs?
I complained about your setnace construction and themn mispelled two?

Common Sense - or Lack Thereof
Mr. Holder needs to concentrate on his job. He is ill-equipped to be a social worker or philosopher-king. On the other hand, perhaps the top U.S. law-enforcement officer who once pardoned a financial fraud and some terrorists should seek employment in one of those "lower-paying" areas.

All white people are racists
It just depends on the level of racism. Here's the scale At 1 would be a racist at 2 a litte more racist and so on until you get to 5 which would be outracist (outrageously racist). Now let's start the conversations, you cowards. http://stopthepresses2.blogspot.com/search/label/Race

Hush lil baby Holder
Mr. Holder, you sir are an idiot. No one asked you about your half baked theories. Just because you are black and Obamaized, you can't go signifying on us about your racial views. Hush little baby don't you cry. Be proud and shut the heck up fool.

Freedom of association . . .
has already been eviscerated by the so-called "civil rights" laws. According to a government official that runs the justice department's "civil rights" division, white males are not covered by the "civil rights" statutes. Since this is the case, I reserve the right to associate (or disassociate) with whoever I please. NO GOVERNMENT STATUTE or LAW can force ANYONE to associate with anyone else. If this makes me a "racist", so be it. Remember, the freedom you take is the freedom you have. If I do not wish to associate with CERTAIN GROUPS or INDIVIDUALS that is MY CHOICE and MY CHOICE alone.
I would like to suggest that eric holder spend some time with his "homies" in the washington dc "ghetto" to get a REAL TASTE of black "racism". Without external protection, his "people" would eat him alive.
It's funny, we haven't heard from the two "poverty pimps" or "race hustlers" lately. (jesse jackson and al sharpton). Calling them "reverend" only disrespects the many truly "reverend" people.

Holder
During this time of crisis (a word Obama really likes) Holder is busy trying to stir up racism. Just what we need is to divide the country more. Next I expect that we will hear that the government is looking into reparations for the black community to make whitey pay for slavery.

The problem is...
The way I see it, the majority of "gangbangers" wouldn't think of working at a low paying "chumpchange" job, let alone actually working at anything. Welfare reform and the loss of real families hasn't lessened the mindset of many black, hispanic, and whites too, that they deserve anything they want and the best way to obtain it is to take it. The people who believe in working and making an honest living will do so. That difficulty lies in the fact that if one is layed off, it is usually much harde to find a job with similar pay and benefits. After actually working for what you do have, who wants to settle for less?
Holder is just another racist, crying he's avictim of the oppressive, white society.

Misunderstood
The writer misunderstood what the AG wanted when he said he wanted to talk about race. The AG wanted to talk about a specific race, "blacks". He just couldn't say it that way without sounding racist. Get it right Mr. Buchanan. If you talk about anything other than "blacks" in the race question you are racist.

Excellent Pat
For readers wanting to do something about illegal and legal immigration, please join NumbersUSA at http://www.NumbersUSA.com . It cost nothing and you will be asked to send correspondence from your computer just by clicking to members of congress . We need your help in stopping amnesty and reducing the 144.000 monthly legal immigrants entering the country .

Holder has Chutzpah
Pat, you are right. Holder sure has chutzpah for criticizing whites. I thought the victim card couldn't be played anymore now that we have BO (the pretender) as president (not mine)? Holder needs to act now to remove Affirmatice Action - that would be courageous.

HOLDER NO SURPRISE
HE FITS THE OBAMA MOLD.

A few things
In view of immigration, why is it Germane what the unemployment rate of blacks and NATIVE BORN Hispanics are? I notice the swipe against legal immigration didn't touch on Asian stats. Asians have a lower drop out rate than whites. Asians also have a lower unemployment rate than whites. Asians also have a higher median income than any other racial group. Of course this isn't included because it doesn't play his xenophobic narrative. Also what does Holder's comments have to do with immigration at all? Nothing, but Pat can't right about anything without including at least one of three themes--non-white immigration is bad, trade is bad, Israel is bad. And sometimes adds The west was stupid to oppose Hitler.

So Joseph why are you concerned about LEGAL immigration? And very little NumbersUSA--let's go back to 1924--can do about it. At some point the US may eliminate some family-based categories (which I oppose them doing)but these numbers will simply be replaced by employment-based immigrants (which are more of a threat to native born employment). The 1 million immigrants per year isn't going to be reduced there is no will in the Congress to do that.


Census?
"According to the census, as reported in The New York Times on Saturday,"

Emanuel will correct any abhorrent fluctuations in our census, from within the whitehouse. The New York Times will confirm them.

Prosecute Employers
Conservatives often talk about the immigration problem without addressing the big "carrot". Employment opportunity. It still pays for employers to hire illegals and we give them wrist slaps if caught. Increase the penalties for offering employment to illegals, and "quick" and "sure" deportment for illegal immigrants.

"But why are the free associations of
Americans of whatever creed or color, any of Eric Holder or Big Brother's business?"

EVERYTHING is the business of Big Brother. Private lives, as is private property, is not good for the Collective-the power of the State. When the subject is "whatever creed" remember this: tyranny/fascist/socialist need and will tolerate exactly one creed-the state.

Be it Hitler's return to Germanic paganism with all it's pomp and mysticism or Stalin's Cult of Personality or Mao's Little Red Book state worship is the order of the state. We may think Holder has chutzpah for criticizing whites- but I fear it is much worse than that.

""You Damn Rebels-lay down your Arms" and the shot was fired heard round the world." Are we as our ancestors at Concord and Lexington or the EuroTrash so admired by our Liberals?

Holder not called a racist
There is no way to have an "honest" discussion on race in this country. Every time a white person attempts to discuss it they are called a racist. Therefore I do not see the point in trying until the liberals admit that there are diffrent points of view that are valid as well.

Shameful
The past Asst Ag of Bill and Hill, who apologized to the Mark Rich and PR terrorist release fiasco; is now Obama's Chief legal enforcement officer. Where is the justice?

Now, this past judge, is calling Americans cowards? Judges are always fair and balanced when making legal judgments. He has lowered the level of the standard of most attorneys. Where is the high moral authority of our Attorney General? I guess Obama get the blame.

legal versus ILLEGAL immigrants
I am all for LEGAL immigrants, but adamantly opposed to ILLEGAL aliens. Xenophobia/racism has nothing to do with it.

ILLEGAL aliens are a solid 80%+ Hispanic, but the REAL problem is their collective ignorance and poverty, problems which perpetuate themselves. Too many arrive indigent and with 7th grade educations. Overty and ignorance beget more of the same.

Their sheer numbers raise serious doubt about assimilation as we have effected it for over 2 centuries. Hispanics are the ONLY group which trails the native born socio-economically even after 3 generations, and increasingly they are content to insist on bilingualism and biculturalism, on balkanization, which has NOT been what America has expected of immigrants.

Most fundamental, ILLEGAL MEANS ILLEGAL... 78% jump the border, and the rest overstay visas. A nation which fails to protect its border and uphold its laws soon ceases to be a nation-- it becomes Mexico.

More Pat
97% of Mexican immigrants don't speak English at home? So? First off, how many of these are IMMIGRANTS and how many are just illegals working in the US which at some point will return home? How many US expats speak say Chinese when working in China at home or Japanese when working in Japan at home? I'd say few to none.

Was this any different from say 1860? Entire Union regiments were made up of Germans and commands on the battlefield given to them in German. 90% of second generation Hispanics speak English either fluently or near-fluent. Hispanics assimilate no slower than immigrants in the past. This is from social science peer reviewed research not fantasies out of Pat's head.

ILLEGAL means daunting problems
A majority of those here ILLEGALLY must work to get along, and all who seek social services are soon committing felonies-- identity fraud, tax dodging, etc. We send CITIZENS who are caught for such things to jail, yet apologia for ILLEGAL aliens suggests we should cut them slack because, "they are just trying to feed their families doing jobs Americans won't do."

Blowing off being ILLEGAL as tantamount only to exceeding the speed limit or jaywalking is like equating braking and entering and robbing your home to an overzealous, unexpected guest.

Yet it is often proven that when ILLEGALS are bagged by show raids that the jobs are quickly refilled by citizens-- often the ones previously displaced so the employer could "save" some $. And who will reimburse CITIZENS and TAXPAYERS for the staggering costs that ILLEGALS foist upon them?! ILLEGALS work mainly in 4 areas (construction, landscape, hospitality, restaurant) where conversation is not essential, but they predominate in NONE of those. However, they DO predominate in tendency toward social pathologies-- crime, drugs, gangs, illegitimacies, barrio blight. Such a deal!

No other country is as diverse as we already, and none tolerates such an invasion of ILLEGALS. Much of Europe now regrets importing the culturally disparate (Islamic laborers) to do its meaner jobs... they will be majority Islamic all too soon.

Those who do not learn from the mistakes of the past are doomed to relive them.

Does America NEED Immigrants Today?-- 1

People often totally fail to consider the NATURE of immigrants that today's America can well use. Like bugs attracted to a street light, we all get WHY the border crashers come-- the real question is, do they benefit AMERICA as some facilely (and artfully) claim?

We also get why miscreant employers hire the ignorant and unskilled-- effectively, to milk them, but inexorably at taxpayer expense. BUT can American society benefit on balance when ALL factors are considered?

We are now an advanced service economy with a slower birth rate, such that we TRULY need mainly educated, skilled immigrants who will indeed embrace the culture and language and give more than they take. Notwithstanding the
disingenuous myth of "doing necessary jobs that Americans won't do," the typical ILLEGAL alien will continue to be a HUGE drag on society all-in socio-economically, especially the majority which is ignorant, indigent,
ethnocentric Hispanics.

Heritage calculates that in government services alone the household of such an ILLEGAL immigrant will use $1.4 million more net in services than it ever pays in taxes-- assuming it eventually actually pays all taxes. [part 2 to follow]

Does America NEED Immigrants Today?-- II

Mexicans are well down the list of those who we should naturally welcome to today's America, because we need the educated and skilled who can and will become net contributors, NOT net drains like the indigent, ignorant, willfully culturally disparate slinking up from Mexico

Objective data (Heritage, e.g.) CLEARLY demonstrate this-- see statistics on proclivities to gangs, crimes, drop-outs, drug and alcohol abuse, illegitimacies, tax dodging, identity fraud, eventual welfare dependence, barrio blight, and bilingual/bicultural/biethnic balkanization.

According to the PEW Hispanic Center, while 56% of the supposed 12 million here ILLEGALLY come from Mexico and another 22% from Latin America (total of 78% Hispanic, mostly indigent initially and undereducated), there are also the 22% who overstay visa's. There are about 13% from Asia, 6% from Europe
and Canada, and another 3% from other places.

We can stop ALL of these ILLEGAL transgressors by enforcing EXISTING laws and passing the SAVE Act now proposed in Congress which will demand workplace accountability.
Immediate verification of status would mean no jobs or freebies without proof of the right to be here. No job, no freebies-- no stay! Bingo!

The straw man challenge of "we cannot deport 12 million ILLEGALS" would largely solve itself via attritive repatriation. We simply need the will to enforce EXISTING laws.

Oracle
"I am all for LEGAL immigrants, but adamantly opposed to ILLEGAL aliens." Agreed. Me too.

But Pat and others like him--NumbersUSA, CIS and other xenophobic organizations lump the two (as do many open borders type who call illegal aliens undocumented immigrants--they aren't immigrants, they are illegal aliens)into one.

His article talks about blacks and native born Hispanics and then goes off into his rant on immigration.

81% of illegals are Hispanic--57% from Mexico and 24% for the rest of Latin America--mostly from Central America. Most cross the US-Mexican border as visas to people from these countries are highly restrictive due to the high degree of overstays. Only 9% from Asia (mostly India) and 6% from Europe and Canada and 4% from Africa and Oceania. Since it is hard to walk to the US from India or China, most of these do indeed overstay, but there are also from China some that are smuggled into the US--in China these are called Snakeheads (shetou). The Chinese version of a coyote.


Akagi
If it's Pat, Akagi will show up to engage in obfuscation and other assorted BS.

"In view of immigration, why is it Germane what the unemployment rate of blacks and NATIVE BORN Hispanics are"

Because these are the people who are initially hurt by illegal immigration.

"I notice the swipe against legal immigration didn't touch on Asian stats. Asians have a lower drop out rate than whites. Asians also have a lower unemployment rate than whites. Asians also have a higher median income than any other racial group."

Taking this at face value, it is because this group isn't hurt as badly as the others are.

"Also what does Holder's comments have to do with immigration at all?"

Before Holder tries to place a guilt trip on whites he needs to get his own house in order. Pat brought up some other facts as well as illegals in his column you conveniently ignore.

"Nothing, but Pat can't right about anything without including at least one of three themes--non-white immigration is bad, trade is bad, Israel is bad. And sometimes adds The west was stupid to oppose Hitler."

He writes of these things for they are some of our most pressing problems.

More blathering on your part with the standard cheap shot against Pat with the Hitler comment.

I'm concerned about legal immigration as well because of the effect it will have on the environment and the standard of living. We are already seeing water shortages in areas, for example.

We don't need a nation of 500 million people.


How many like this anymore?
Thank you, Pat Buchanan.

You are one of the very, very few anymore.

Akagi
And now the outright lying.

"But Pat and others like him--NumbersUSA, CIS and other xenophobic organizations lump the two (as do many open borders type who call illegal aliens undocumented immigrants--they aren't immigrants, they are illegal aliens)into one."

More BS and lies from you. They very well make the distinction between the two types and you know it.

Get Out Of Here, Aka
Your time is up. You've already used up too much space with your pseudointellectual babblings and statistics.

How many like this anymore?
Thank you, Pat Buchanan.

You are one of the very, very few anymore.

Ryan, You're right
Akagi uses lies, half-truths and misinformation, along with interminable posts full of statistics to bore those who disagree with him into submission.

His pseudointellectual veneer does not fool us.

It's constitutional amendment time...
First, immediately revoke all H-1B and other visas of similar intent, returning highly skilled jobs to the American workforce.

Then, Repeal Section 1 of The 14th Amendment of the Constitution, restating it to specify that only those born in the US of 2 permanent, legal US residents shall be considered a natural born citizen of the US - better yet, make that born of 2 US citizens. This will eliminate anchor babies.

I'm just saying, Pat, don't tell Holder to stop the madness. Tell him how to stop it. I'm with you, Pat.


The longer this administration goes on,

the more divisive and racist it appears.

Oracle
"No other country is as diverse as we already..."

Untrue.

"...and none tolerates such an invasion of ILLEGALS."

Basically true. But in many places they simply claim to be a refugee and are admitted. The US is pretty stingy in regards to admitting refugees compared to Europe and Canada. But you are basically right that few countries allow the laissez-faire situation the US does in regards to illegal entry. The US needs to produce biometric IDs--a national ID card for citizens, a biometric alien registration certificate for permanent residents, and a workers ID for those allowed to work in the US on a non-immigrant visa (H1Bs, K1s, F1s, B2s, L1s, etc.). All others would be required to have their passports at all times. Any person who wanted to fly, work, bank, rent a house, buy a house, buy or rent a car, take a bus or train--anything would have to provide one of these cards or passport. But the ACLU and People for the American Way, my pals in the LP would have a fit if you went down this road. Until you get these type of IDs, you'll never solve the illegal alien issue--wall or not.

LouLouise
I'm glad to see I'm not the only one to recognize that Akagi is a member in good standing in the school of "if you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with BS."

This guy seems to be on orders to trash everything Pat has written. He must have found a way to make money off of this and is afraid if people like Pat have their way, his rice bowl will be broken.

American ruling elites: killing the U.S.
"Why do we have an open-borders immigration policy that annually allows in millions, legal and illegal, to compete for jobs, when 10 million Americans are out of work and half a million are losing their jobs every month? The political correctness and moral cowardice of our Lords Temporal, who refuse to call a time-out on immigration until our own people go back to work, is killing the American dream for millions."
- - -
Border Enforcement + Immigration Moratorium = Job & Eco Sanity

Mr. Holder
I am a cowardly racist and proud of it. Leave me alone. I don't want to discuss it, or change it, or to listen to you or any other person of color lecture, whine, complain or insist on the reparations that our new President is hard at work extracting from the entire country on your behalf. Don't tell the poor blacks that, of course, they won't take part in the prosperity. It might take a while for them to figure it out, but when they are still being asked to work and pay for things, they will. STFU!

Steve
"Then, Repeal Section 1 of The 14th Amendment of the Constitution, restating it to specify that only those born in the US of 2 permanent, legal US residents shall be considered a natural born citizen of the US - better yet, make that born of 2 US citizens. This will eliminate anchor babies."

So, Tell me when you have the 67 Senators and 292 or so House members to adopt this and when you'd get 38 state houses to go along with this as well. You couldn't even get the basically unconstitutional provisions of the VRA repealed. I can hear John Lewis' voice now "The Republicans are trying to repeal the 14th Amendment. An amendment drafted to protect freed slaves. They now want to go back to 1868. Call Senator X and tell him to vote no." It'd be a blood bath. So good luck with that. Georgia will leave the Union again before you'd get any part of the 14th repealed.

SO only two US citizens? So you have an American father and a mother, permanent resident from a country that only gives citizenship based on the nationality of the father. So you'd make their children stateless? How American of you. How about if one parent was a US citizen and the other an illegal alien?

Using your standard then, Twinkie Girl--that be Michele Malkin then is an anchor baby as her parents were both in the US on F1/F2 visas. Robert was right. Let's have a drive to get TH to unban him.

Using your standard she'd be in Manila serving drinks or something.

saying NO to immmigrant bashing
numbersUSA expressly opposes immigrant bashing:

http://www.numbersusa.com/content/learn/about-us/no-immigra nt-bashing/no-immigrant-bashing.html

excerpt:
"Nothing about this website should be construed as advocating hostile actions or feelings toward immigrant Americans; illegal aliens deserve humane treatment even as they are detected, detained and deported. Unfortunately, to write about problems of immigration is to risk seeming to attack immigrants themselves. Even worse is the risk of inadvertently encouraging somebody else to show hostility toward the foreign-born as a group...

... not only is it ethically wrong to engage in such stereotyping, it is tactically short-sighted. There is much to suggest that most immigrants already among us would support reductions in immigration numbers. The reasons are not surprising. Virtually any reduction designed to help native-born Americans would be even more beneficial to foreign-born Americans. That is why so many immigrants are supporters of NumbersUSA.com."



"The US is pretty stingy
in regards to admitting refugees compared to Europe and Canada"

Yes, refugees. And our streets are controlled by criminal gangs of "refugees" as are our prisons. We allow the H1Bs, K1s, F1s, B2s, L1s, etc. so IBM, Intel, Microsoft and others can layoff American born engineers and skilled tradesmen.

We allow these "refugees" and others to take our welfare, steal social security numbers and bankrupt our hospitals. They build mosques to damn us and encourage violence, fly planes into our buildings and have turned whole sections of our cities into war zones.

The US is pretty stingy on it's way to suicide? The good news is we are catching up with Canada and Holland in Honor Killings so be of good cheer!

I would think we need to halt ALL immigration for awhile-we are having a terrible time taking care of our own--there is no current shortage of gang bangers, kidnappers, rapist and welfare cheats I can think of.

Of course Eric Holder and John McCain would disagree.

Ryan
NumbersUSA is against legal immigration as well. No lies, half truths or distortion. Truth.

I don't bash everything Pat writes just 99.999% of it since most of his positions are total tripe--the west was wrong to go to war with Hitler in 1939--he'd have gone after the Soviets next. And the evidence for this is?

Protectionism is good. Yep. Sure worked in 1931 didn't it.

Non-white immigrants are bad.

His position that American blind support for Israel does it no favors? We totally agree on that, but hard to find someone you disagree with 100% of the time.

Why Immigrants have become Unwelcome

The following cogent essay was submitted to the LA Times by Rosemary LaBonte. No surprise it was considered "Politically Incorrect" by the Leftist Times and not published.

* * * * * *
In 1900 European immigrants flooded into the US. They stood in long lines at Ellis Island to be documented. They pledged to uphold the laws and support their new country. They made learning English and securing employment a
priority. Some even changed names to better assimilate.

They said good-bye to their birth places to give their children a new life and helped them assimilate. Nothing was handed to them: no free lunches, no welfare, and no labor laws to protect them. All they had were their skills to trade and a willingness to work for a future of prosperity.

Most of their children came of age during World War II. My father fought with men whose parents were immigrants. None of these 1st generation Americans cared where their parents came from. They were defending America as one people. When we liberated France, no one there looked for the French,
German or Irish-American. The French saw only AMERICANS. We carried one flag, representing one country. None of those immigrant sons waved another country's flag to show their identity. It would have disgraced their parents who sacrificed so much to be here. These immigrants knew what it meant to be
an AMERICAN.

Now we have a new kind of immigrant wanting the same rights and privileges, but with different rules which include entitlement and foreign allegiances. That's not what being an American is about. Many don't bother with rules and enter illegally. Immigrants of the early 1900's deserve better for all the hard work and sacrifice in raising future generations to create a land that has become a beacon for those Legally searching for a better life and willing to assimilate. They would be appalled that they are being used as
examples by those waving foreign flags.

Agree with Myk @ 04:06
.

Oracle
A statement saying you shouldn't attack immigrants is not the same as saying they favor legal immigration. THEY DON'T.

Lou:

Yes. Much better to put out falsehoods than to use data from real studies. The fact remains--second generation Hispanics assimilate no slower than did immigrants of the past.

Tell US Lou, have you ever posted a post of substance? I have never seen one. One thread you had some 15 or so posts and EVERY one was simply an insult against someone. Saying Rachel Maddow was a man and that Chris Matthews looked like a cartoon.

The "core" of the Obama
"civilian Volunteer Security Force" (google "Dept of Peace") will be these minorities who have nothing, want for nothing (food and housing is Govt furnished), but want everything and will get it. Maybe its time for a second revolution, because we sure as hell have no representation and have now and will have in the future monsterous taxation. Those of you who care, in addition to the pending "DOP", there is Bobby Seals retroactive bill to register ALL guns in the peoples hands and Alcee Hastings bill to "build camps for National emergencies to keep civilians safe", look them up, HR-45 and HR645. Then make sure your weapons are secure.

who wants ILLEGALS here
re:
"Of course Eric Holder and John McCain would disagree."

One reason the ILLEGAL alien invasion is such a challenge is that "The Conspiracy of Evil" supports it--- an unlikely tacit alliance:

The biggest challenge to stopping ILLEGAL aliens is that the money and organization (hence power) is mainly on the other side. The pro-ILLEGAL forces include an unlikely, strange bedfellow alliance between groups which want to USE them in different ways--> the Conspiracy Of Evil.

Miscreant employers simply want to exploit their labor-- screw the myriad egregious socio-economic problems they foist on America. The PC left wants to get them voting and seize permanent control for the leftist "elites" via big entitlement government. The scandal-plagued Catholic Church needs bodies for the pews; and ILLEGALS can put more in the collection plates in America than in Mexico. Ethnocentric Hispanic groups really do want an effective Reconquista, so they hide behind claims of racism and pleas for PC multiculturalism and one world kumbaya.

Finally, the remote elites, including the liberal MSM, do not see what all the fuss is about. Besides, they LIKE their cheap ILLEGAL maids and yard-workers, and THEIR kids will not have to go to schools enervated by "those people."

Most of America is understandably righteously indignant about ILLEGAL aliens invading America, pervading and permeating pandemic social pathologies (violent crimes, gangs, drugs, illegitimacies, dropouts, barrio blight, social service enervation, willful cultural disparateness):

Per TIME magazine (2006), fully 89% of Americans think that ILLEGAL immigration is a SERIOUS problem --> 30% "extremely serious," 33% "very serious," and 26% "somewhat serious."


Akagi
There you go again with your dishonesty. You wrote this above:

"But Pat and others like him--NumbersUSA, CIS and other xenophobic organizations lump the two (as do many open borders type who call illegal aliens undocumented immigrants--they aren't immigrants, they are illegal aliens)into one."

And now we see this:

"NumbersUSA is against legal immigration as well. No lies, half truths or distortion. Truth."

There is one hell of a big difference between what you initially wrote and this. Which is it with you?

You are not just lying here, but writing stupid lies on top of it that are easily proved.


What does James Madison say??
"America was indebted to immigration for her settlement and prosperity. That part of America which had encouraged them most had advanced most rapidly in population, agriculture and the arts."
James Madison

If American kids can’t compete with Spanish-speaking Mexican immigrants who are “less skilled and less educated than the average American”, then the problem isn’t with immigration, it’s with the American kids. Today, at http://www.dice.com, there are 54,787 technology jobs advertised. Americans need to stay in school, or go back to school, and develop the skills needed for the jobs of today.

why the complicity by government...

...in aiding and abetting the ILLEGAL alien incursion?

Many have wondered why many pols at all levels of govt. could so blatantly ignore the law and common sense to accommodate ILLEGALS (see sanctuary cities, support for scamnesty, etc.). The answer is: MONEY and power!

Please see my proximate post about what i call the "Conspiracy Of Evil." Here in Georgia, our 2 Senators had been influenced by $ from miscreant employers of ILLEGAL aliens such as chicken pluckers and meat processors. Our senators had seemed to be riding the fence on the issue. They and others had listened to the artful and beguiling myths about "simply doing jobs Americans would not do."

But myriad Georgians got engaged and made CLEAR that we did not like being the fastest-growing ILLEGAL alien state. We got our 2 U.S. Senators to vote against Kennedy-McCain scamnesty and the Dream Act (which would have rewarded college-age ILLEGALS with subsidized tuition and a path to citizenship).

We also got our state legislature to crack down on ILLEGALS pervading Ga. and plaguing her with social pathologies-- just like N.C., Ok, Az., Ms., Mo., and other states have had to do.

The best group to help YOU save YOUR country and YOUR state is NumbersUSA. Several honest U.S. Senators said that this group was most responsible for derailing Kennedy-McCain. BOOKMARK THEIR ADDRESS HERE:

http://www.numbersusa.com

They have all sorts of reference sources and prepared subject-specific, targeted e-mails for you to send to members of Congress.

You can also e-mail or call your reps in Congress right here at their official sites... tell them that you support the SAVE Act and oppose ANY attempts at scamnesty.

http://www.congressmerge.com/onlinedb/index.htm

http://www.numbersusa.com/content/issues.html

Get engaged, folks! America would be a TERRIBLE thing to lose! YOU can help save YOUR country!

Akagi
"One thread you had some 15 or so posts and EVERY one was simply an insult against someone."

You have room to be talking. In the past, I've seen you let the personal insults fly with terms like "racist", "xenophobe", "nazi", ad nauseam.

How much are you making off of illegal alien labor? I bet you are profiting in some manner by the way you vehemently attack those who are against turning the US into a third world country so people like you can realize a short term profit at the expense of the nation as a whole.

Aka:
My posts serve to expose you as the fraud and pseudointellectual sneak that you are. Your interminable posts should be taken with a grain of salt as they are replete with lies and misinformation.

Your pedantic and pompous style may fool your students but not TH readers.

oracle1
Excellent series of posts on your part. I'd add this. Put employers in jail for hiring illegals like they did with Rubashkin in Iowa.

Do you remember when our esteem senior senator got booed over his initial support of "comprehensive immigration reform"?

Both of these two worthies need to be made to fear us more than the loss of campaign contributions from big agriculture.

WOW!
A VERY rare visit by Pat B. to the land of the sane ... and NO Bush bashing! Pat, are you not well?

Or maybe, I'M not well as I find myself in complete agreement with Pat!

oracle1, Steve, Ryan , Akaqi
From another Georgian---
oracle1, I respectfully disagree with,
"We are now an advanced service economy with a slower birth rate, such that we TRULY need mainly educated, skilled immigrants"
Not so, check, for example, the number of grads with IT degrees and the number of available jobs for last year alone.
I hesitated to enter this because I am in agreement with most of what you wrote.

Steve--with you all the way

Ryan I guess ak doesn't understand the specifics of who does or has what skills and will or can contribute or drain.

AK -- I do not post here often, but it is obvious you have a fixation or hatred for Pat Buchanan. This is so obvious in your posts --I automatically dismiss any comments you make.You become unreasoning.

why worry about ILLEGALS

[reply also to: Mark]
American kids need not worry about competing with ILLEGAL aliens-- they need to worry about supporting them with taxes and the community enervation that goes with them like darkness with night!

For all of the claptrap apologia about those hard-working "undocumented workers," their socio-economic costs (crimes, drugs, gangs, illegitimacies, dropouts, bilingualism, cultural balkanization, social service decimation) are STAGGERING.

Heritage estimates that the typical ILLEGAL alien household will cost $1.4 million more in services used than it ever pays in taxes over a lifetime.

http://www.heritage.org/Research/Immigration/bg1936.cfm

oracle
You cut and paste that same tired old LA OP-Ed every time immigration comes up.

"In 1900 European immigrants flooded into the US. They stood in long lines at Ellis Island to be documented."

True and this is still the case--standing in long virtual lines. A sibling of a US citizen the wait time is around 12 years now.

"They made learning English and securing employment a priority. Some even changed names to better assimilate."

Same today. Care to tell me what Jerry Yang's real given name is? (It is Zhiyuan) or Elaine Chao's? (it is Xiao Lan) Michael Chang? (Zhang Depei) If you like Wade-Giles better--Chih-Yuen, Hsiao-Lan and Chang Te-P'ei.

"They would be appalled that they are being used as examples by those waving foreign flags."

Really? Does that only include Mexican flags or all of them--like Irish and the flag of Scotland I see all the time on cars. How about the Confederate flag? Is it foreign or just a flag of treason?

The main reason immigrants today are unwelcomed is they aren't white--but brown, yellow and black. That's the real reason as much as you all want to avoid that dirty little fact.


oracle1
"Many have wondered why many pols at all levels of govt. could so blatantly ignore the law and common sense to accommodate ILLEGALS (see sanctuary cities, support for scamnesty, etc.). The answer is: MONEY and power!"

I have been wrestling with this forever. I sadly, must agree with you. I cannot think of any other reason. I am an older man who has seen many changes. I cannot imagine anything that anyone could offer me to betray my country. I agree with comments about our Senators. Johnny certainly does not need the money, so he must be weak-kneed to support his business friends. I think Saxby is well-intentioned but easily led.

I am proud of my Rep Phil Gingrey. He was recently whipped in the letters to the editor column of the local paper,(MDJ) but if you check his work, you will find a true American. He is for his constituents and listens to them.

I ignored Pat Bucahan. When he ran for Prez- I thought him presumptuous. I retired in 2006. Since then I have spent hours catching up on the American scene and I find him to be the most knowledgable of all the journalists.(And politicians) I believve (having watched the passing scene for almost 76 years) that we will see violence before the situation is rectified. I am still so naive as to have trouble believing that businessmen would betray our country for greater profit.

Ryan
Oh I attack, but my posts are not 100% nothing but attack which is all Lou's posts are. And when I use the term racist--is is not without cause. Let's see if you can understand this concept. To call someone a racist who surely is or was--e.g. Madison Grant or to call someone a man who is female? I have not called anyone a Nazi. You are confused. As for Xenophobe, yes--that describes NumbersUSA quite well.

mistermilo:

I don't hate Pat. He is simply misguided on most of the things he writes about. He'd fit right in with the GOP--in 1931. But this isn't 1931 sad to say for him. He is wrong on immigration, wrong on trade, simply wrong. He is like an anti-compass. See which position Pat takes and pick the opposite one--you'd be correct 99% of the time.

Lou:

I'd avoid using such big words with TH readers.



reply to: Ryan
Thanks for the attaboy... this has become my cause.

I TRULY believe that the ILLEGAL invasion is the greatest lurking (low on the radar) threat to America. It is AMAZING how the MSM and other powers that be blow it off as a "fringe group concern" or "xenophobic nativism."

OH REALLY?! Is that why over 70% of blue state New Yorkers opposed licenses for ILLEGALS because they knew well that would REALLY be a step toward amnesty and a ticket to voting (see motor voter laws)?

We have VERY little time left to save America from myopic self-immolation... Mexico is in meltdown... many 10's of millions will also invade if we give them the go signal with another amnestia, and the ObaMessiah is stopping the fence construction because the left wants the voters. The last amnesty of 3 million brought us 12-20 million more ILLEGALS... we cannot afford those here already.

The last election gave us NO choice on this critical issue-- Amnesty John was the last hope of the neoCONS, and his amnesty baggage also helped cause the republican/conservative malaise. ThIS election was NOT an embracing of Obama-- it was INSTEAD a rejection of a crippled economy, a pointless war, profligate spending, and an embracing of ILLEGALS.

akaqi
Wow--you have such a convoluted mind!! You must be a mole for MALDEF or La Raza.......

Akagi
"The main reason immigrants today are unwelcomed is they aren't white--but brown, yellow and black. That's the real reason as much as you all want to avoid that dirty little fact."

And you want this to be a third world country. Doing what you want will continue to hurt those Americans who are minorities as well as whites, so don't try that "racist" crap you always do.

"How about the Confederate flag? Is it foreign or just a flag of treason?"

It was an American flag just like the US flag is.

Yes, you nailed it, he is afraid
Holder is the coward. He is afraid to do his job. The last time he worked in the AG office, he helped more criminals than he hindered. We think the ball's in your court, Mr. Holder.

Pat, yer 1/2 right here . . .
40% unemployment at age 16-17? What about school? I got my first job the summer after my junior year, when I was 17, before that I cut lawns and did odd jobs. Age 16-17 should be spent in school or summer sports. My kids won't work til after school, aged 18; does this count against the unemployment rate? Why?

Akagi
"Oh I attack, but my posts are not 100% nothing but attack which is all Lou's posts are."

I believe in positive reinforcement and in this case you are being slightly more honest for a change.

I don't know about Lou, but I do know that when you aren't insulting someone with your favorite words (posted above), you are filling a post with all sorts of uncited statistics or history that may or may not be true. One thing for sure, they will have been taken out of context.

"I have not called anyone a Nazi."

Not yet on this thread, but give it time. Anyway, you have in the past.

Ryan
A few things. First, the US is the largest economy on earth with a 13 trillion dollar economy. A typical "Third World" country has a GDP less than Mississippi's. Second, most illegals don't even come from a Third World country if you want to use that term--Mexico is an NIC as is India and China.

As I made clear I am against illegal immigration but I (and orcale claims to) support legal immigration.

Want to bet the next immigration reform bill will be far worse than the bill Saxby supported. I opposed the bill too--it was a terrible bill, but the next one may be worse, but we shall see. The real name of the bill should have been "The Agro-Business Cheap Labor Access Act of 2007). It would have legalized millions of illegals, eliminated thousands per year of family-based immigrants and replaced them with business-visas and many of these would have been technology workers who directly compete for Americans for high paying jobs which is something most family member visa holders don't do.

Ryan
I only use the term racist when it is clear the person is racially motivated--and PB is that.

I covered your Third World comment foolishness in another post.

"It was an American flag just like the US flag is."

I suppose if you want to say because of the term "of America" then I suppose you could make this claim. Since it had a president, vice-president, a cabinet, a army, somewhat of a navy, attempts at foreign relations, then it--that being the battleflag--was a flag of a foreign army (foreign to 'dem Yankees anyway).

So is flying it any different from flying the flag of say Mexico? How about Scotland or Ireland or Italy--see plenty of those too don't you?

Ryan
Never called anyone a Nazi unless they were in fact Nazis. And Ryan, if you doubt the stats or the history--you can look them up. I'm not going to spoon feed you.

Is Pat a racist? Using the traditional way the term was defined no, but in the modern context (meaning basically bigot) 100% correct.

My favorite word of attack is mindless actually. I reserve racist and xenophobe to people who actually prove with their words that they are indeed that.

Pat is right

With the exception of active pumping of fossil fuels America is one of the most self-sufficient countries in the world.The greatest danger to our society is greedy businessmen who would trade our greatness and sovereignty for personal wealth.This is being brought about rapidly by, among others, three issues, illegal immigration, H1B (et al) and offshoreing.

Without going into a long script here--
-- $45 billion to fight drugs
-- UAW programs that pay people to sit on their butts
--Criminal background checks that eliminate a lot of young Ameircans from the wok place (See war on drugs above)
--Illegal immigrants sending $60 billion to their home country
--a (unbelieveable) group in DC that outsources the manufacture of airplanes for our defense system.
--employers who hire illegals and are not punished
-- I bet you folks out there could add plenty more

There are an estimated 6 million jobs taken by illegals. Give those back to Americans and see how our economy improves.

That's enough--I could go on and on--but I guess there are those who love the graffiti, the gangs, the rapes, the robberies, the destruction of property values, the drugs, the moral fiber of the country going down the drain, etc.

The Catholic church is happy, (Lutherans too). Their pews have more occupants and better collections.
But what the hey--the illegals buy houses thay cannot afford, then let us pay for it.

Also--most black politicians, somehow, perceive illegal immigration as the same as the conditions in which their ancestors came to America. I submit that if you check the immigration report cards of black politicians you will find most of them in favor of illegal immigration--AT THE EXPENSE, primarily, of black American youth. Check out John Lewis of Georgia. John , your day has come and gone---you hurt black Americans more than you ever helped them.

I have to stop here, my blood pressure is rising dangerously.

where was Holder's courage
when he advanced Clinton's pardons over objections of the FBI and JD in the hope that he would become Gore's AG?

mistermilo
"...convoluted mind..."

I do? Explain.

A mole for La Raza? No. They are pretty good at getting their message without my help as does the MALDEF. I am a mole though. I doubt they'd like my idea about a national ID card either. If you'd actually read you'd see I am no fan of illegal immigration and La Raza and MALDEF are--despite their claims. They'd howl like mad if you even suggested a national ID card. But so would many non-Hispanic groups--Bob Barr included.

Akagi
All three of those nations are third world. Eventually, they may become second world. I think that if the intelligent ones aren't poached by the transnationals that this will become more likely.

"As I made clear I am against illegal immigration but I (and orcale claims to) support legal immigration."

You could have fooled me. I've seen you pay lipservice to the idea, but so does La Raza.

The last bill known as "comprehensive immigration reform", was going to do all of the above. See the Heritage Foundation report on this. We don't need to add millions of people to our population so some can profit at the nation's expense.

As for the business visas, we already have something known as H-1B and L-1 visas, that people like Bill Gates can't get enough of. He and some others were up on the hill recently whining about this.

"Want to bet the next immigration reform bill will be far worse than the bill Saxby supported."

I'm sure it will. I am also sure it will be stopped like the Bush/McKennedy bill was.

mistermilo
You going to line up for one of those jobs picking strawberries or plucking chickens.

Have no idea where you live in the state, but I'm sure you can go up to Hall County and find a job in one of the chicken plants up there.

mistermilo
Like you, that is also a sore issue with me, the role certain religious groups play in bringing more people over here the rest of us will have to pay for.

"Ryan I guess ak doesn't understand the specifics of who does or has what skills and will or can contribute or drain."

I wish that were the case. Ignorance is correctable, but in Akagi's case, he is being willfully being dishonest. Now that he has been nailed on it he is trying to weasel his way out of it.

reply to : Akagi
While you are certainly not totally fact-bereft, your apparent chip on the shoulder about not being a WASP in a (still-- for now) largely WASP country causes a sensitivity about natives versus the foreign-born... you wear your anti-nativist zeal on your sleeve, which works against your arguments.

Ergo, you tend to blur the distinction between the foreign born who are LEGAL and those who are ILLEGAL.

I have consistently said that I favor immigrants who come here LEGALLY and bring education and skills with them. Such true immigrants OUTPERFORM the native-born and become positive contributors socio-economically.

In marked contrast, ILLEGAL aliens generally start out far behind the natives socio-economically, and their grandchildren (of poor, largely ignorant Hispanic ILLEGALS) remain behind. There is empirical evidence that English is NOT being embraced as in the past, partly because of all of the PC ilk preaching bilingualism and multiculturalism.

But the Hispanic congressman who authored the requirement for bilingual education now says it is his greatest regret because Hispanic children are clinging to Spanish, thereby assuring that they will stay behind, as English is becoming the language of the educated and successful everywhere.

the willfully disingenuous myth of
... "jobs Americans won't do"

ILLEGAL aliens are concentrated in 4 industries (landscaping services, restaurant/hotel service, construction, food processing) but predominate in NONE-- which gives lie to the artful canard: just doing jobs Americans won't do. When the government makes a show raid on a meat plant, Americans refill those jobs immediately.

Americans cost a bit more on the surface, BUT only to the miscreant employers which pocket the "savings" when they instead hire ILLEGALS. Your hotel room, or hot dog, or lettuce is no cheaper to YOU... and Middle America is forced to bear the egregious and pernicious socio-economic burdens and plethora of social pathologies that ILLEGALS foist upon us.
The all-in costs of ILLEGALS to American society are STAGGERING, snowballing, and perhaps soon to be irreversible.

The truth is, guest worker programs themselves rarely work as intended anywhere in the world... a positive example were the true migrant workers who returned home to Mexico seasonally, but the current plague of ILLEGALS is a totally different scenario.

We MUST DEMAND that out pols listen to the 70%+ majority and begin to stanch and reverse the ILLEGAL alien malignancy before the cancer destroys the entire body politic.

Ryan
Actually neither Mexico or China or India (or Brazil or Malaysia or South Africa) are "Third World" a term that is also outdated but we'll let it go for now. What THEY ARE are NICs--which stand for Newly Industralized Countries. A term first applied in the 1970s to the "Tigers" of East Asia--Taiwan (ROC), South Korea, Singapore and Hong Kong. Countries that had strong developing economies so not Third World, there weren't communist so not Second World (which is what that term applies to and thus no longer extant)and not fully developed and thus not First World.

I don't pay any lip service to illegal immigration, but I do live on planet reality which most TH posters left long long ago. Some (that means many--millions worth) will have to be normalized at some point--they aren't going home, they aren't going to be deported. Those with houses, spouses, children, businesses--they are going no place. They will have to at some point be normalized--call it an amnesty or whatever you wish.

"I'm sure it will. I am also sure it will be stopped like the Bush/McKennedy bill was."

It will not--it will pass. The DP will have 59 Senators and they will get at least one of the "RINO Three" to join them. In 2010, expect the DP to pick up a few seats more to push them over 60. By 2011, the DP will be able to pass what it wants at will and that includes immigration reform. Not this year and probably not 2010--more important things on deck--health care reform, etc. 2010 might be off limits since it will be an election year, but in 2011, I gurantee there will be a bill, a bill you won't like and it will pass and Obama will sign it.

Akagi
I bet that what you wrote is the outcome you would welcome, your nonsense and lies notwithstanding.

Anyway, Bad day for you and your handle. You opened up with an attack on Pat and when you couldn't pull it off, you tried to maneuver your way out of it. Too late, all the 1000 lbs armored piercing bombs and 21" torpedoes have left you dead in the water with a wreck flight deck littered with your BS bombers.

Sayonara

reply to: mistermilo
you make some excellent points...

The reason black pols favor ILLEGALS is the same reason other libs do-- they are liberal voters in waiting-- new constituents to assure the hegemony of big entitlement government, and hence, liberal pols.

Black pols made have their living by assuring that a lot of attention has been brought to bear on "poor people"... we have spent $11 TRILLION on the war on poverty. Ever notice that the children of the ObaMessiah and the Revrund Jessuh go to exclusive private schools, even as they fight vouchers or school accountability for YOUR children?

The Catholic church also does not give a crap about America, but about its coffers... most Hispanic ILLEGALS are Catholic, and they can put a lot more in the collection plate if they get a job in America paying 10x what they can get in Mexico. That is the same church which has cracked down by tolerating only one documented child molestation per priest-- after that, they get tough and move the priest!

Oracle
"you tend to blur the distinction between the foreign born who are LEGAL and those who are ILLEGAL."

I do not, but those against immigration do all the time--Pat one of the chief abusers in this regard.

Well I have claimed I am not a Christian before, so yes, that does make me a non-WASP.

Assimilation by Hispanics is no slower than in the past. Near 90% of second generation Hispanics speak English well. Now illegals don't but they have more in common with American expats than immigrants. They have no desire to live in the US forever, no need to learn English, so they don't.

As for bilingual education, complicated topic. If you throw a say a kid into a class say he is 10 and he knows NO English, how well would he do? If I dropped you in to a classroom in say Miaoli, how well do you think you'd do?

In Taipei, there are now bilingual education elementry schools due to the increasing number of "New Taiwanese" there. The otherside, is that they don't move these students out once they have enough ability to enter a normal class room and due to funding wants often suck kids into the classes who have a Spanish name even if they don't speak a word of Spanish. But to just throw a kid in a regular class and sink or swim is not good for the student nor the other students in the class. There has to be some degree of transition from Spanish to English.

Faulty Premise
Mr. Buchanan's arguments, while largely on-target, are nonetheless fatally flawed for they are entirely based on an erroneous presumption that unemployed, uneducated, and irresponsible minorities actually want to work, and I've never seen any empirical evidence to support such a premise. Our governments neither require them to do anything nor abide by any standards...except of course to always vote for the democratic/liberal candidate in exchange for more freebies -- all paid for by hard-working, tax-paying, patriotic saps like you and me.
Indeed, the L's in "liberal" stand for Losers.

oracle1
Just dropped by to say "thank you" for the sites referencing the odious neocon ideology you included in a posting on Cal Thomas piece.

I was able to access two of them, which I appreciate.

There is a book entitled "America Alone, The Neo-Conservatives And The Global Order", by Stefan Halper and Jonathan Clarke, which helps to explain this pernicious ideology.


Stmulus induced construction jobs
The illegals will flock over the border even more vigorously when the new construction jobs start up. They will be the beneficiaries.

Ryan
My attack on Pat was well on. Holder's comment had nothing to do with immigration but the fact that yes people self-segregate. And Americans are cowards for not embracing each other. My point would be so? And if you rather live next to whites than blacks does that make you a coward? No. Human nature.

Hispanics rather live among Hispanics and blacks with blacks and whites with whites. If there were populations large enough to support them, you'd have Guangdong speakers wanting to live with Guanggong speakers and Minnanhua speakers wanting to live with Minnanhua speakers and Wu speakers wanting to live with Wu speakers.

Pat then went on black dropout rates and then to Hispanics and linked that to immigration (leaving out that Asians do better in both dropout rates, unemployment rates and median income than do whites) to prop up his usual tripe how non-white immigration is so bloody awful.

Pat is swimming around in his usual fecal-laced waters.

Ryan? What outcome is that? The normalization of millions of illegals? What I want is beside the point, because that is what is going to happen--by 2011. You have two choices--normalize many of them or let them stay out in the shadows as they say. Those with homes, businesses, American spouses and American children are going no where.


Oracle
First off let me thank TH and their stupid popup banner ad for signing me out again.

"Ever notice that the children of the ObaMessiah and the Revrund Jessuh go to exclusive private schools, even as they fight vouchers or school accountability for YOUR children?"

That's because the teachers unions are one of the biggest contributors to the DP and its candidates. Most blacks in Congress and the various statehouses are black. They knbow who pays the bills. That is why Georgia SB 90 sponsored by Eric Johnson will never pass. He has put forward similar bills in the past and they always die.

But let's be fair to Obama. The last president that sent his children to public school was Carter with Amy. The DC schools are much much worse since 1977 and much more dangerous despite the efforts of Michele Rhee. Due to security concerns there was little doubt Obama's girls would go to a private school. The visit to a public school by Michele was for PR.

But plenty of conservatives are against school choice too. People in good PS districts like East Cobb and Peachtree City and are expensive don't want the great unwashed from say Clayton in their schools. Why did you think SB 90 restricts school choice to within the district. Even though, I bet plenty in East Cobb aren't looking forward to seeing those from South Cobb in their top notch schools like Walton or those from say Meadowcreek (aka Ghettocreek) in Gwinnett going to Brookwood, Parkview or Collins Hill. Would you?




Correction
Should read "Most blacks in Congress and in the statehouses are Democrat." The way I wrote it made no sense as I meant to say Democrat but wrote black instead.


Pat, thanks for the good article. (nt)
.

my two cents
On November 4, 2008 the last hole in the 'white liberal guilt' punch card was punched. Those who still held such a card were given until 12 noon Tuesday January 20, 2009 to use it. At 12:01 p.m. on that day it expired.

Your new mantra - personal responsibility

Get used to it

the double standards
re:
"But let's be fair to Obama. The last president that sent his children to public school was Carter with Amy."

Yeah, but Obama had a number of private schools to choose among and picked Sidwell Friends where the rich and powerful hang out.

More to the point, you can COUNT ON the black pols/professional poor people sending THEIR children to exclusive private schools... they pay for same by milking the system under the guise of "working for the poor people." A few blacks like Dr. Sowell and Michael Steele call them for what they are-- race baiters and profiteers.

Terry just made a GREAT point here-- the age of being disadvantaged (ergo getting special privilege) SHOULD be over... though the ObaMessiah may have benefited from AA, he has not played that card publicly, and in any case, he WAS elected by a clear majority.


More Obama hollow rhetoric...
Americans are not cowards, but our government is filled with them: they don’t pay taxes but take high positions in government, excused and unpunished; they get sweetheart deals with Countrywide, but wag their tongue at bankers;they let a young woman die in the black water of Chappaquiddick, but preach morality; they rise through
Chicago thug politics and then pretend to be worthy of the presidency. They bomb their own country and then pose as education professors. They scream hatred from pulpits and hide behind “theology”; they strong-arm banks, use interns for their sexual pleasure, take money from governments around the world, and have no shame. They present biased opinions and call themselves the media.
Americans are sick of hearing the political racist garbage you spout, tired of being insulted by the ignorance you promote.

Step out of your privileged gas-guzzling taxpayer-paid limo, Mr. Holder, tear yourself away from White House cocktail parties, take your elitist, prickly, self-righteous being and muddy your polished shoes in the bloody battlefield of Gettysburg, among the tombstones of Arlington, and humble yourself before memorials to fallen heroes such as our military that abound on The Mall, and remember the living heroes who make your ignorance and anger look as pathetic as – well, a mirror’s reflection in D.C. Your indulgent, cushioned existence is paid by their ultimate sacrifice.

Black has no more suffering than Brown, no more sorrow than Red, no more agony than Yellow, no more pain than White, no more rights than all men. But cowardice, Mr. Holder, is in thinking that it does and promoting that lie for political gain. Distortion, dissemblance, equivocation are all forms of cowardice, Mr. Holder.

When did you last “serve,” Mr. Holder?

Cowardice, Mr. Holder, is in lots of hollow talk – “typical white people” “cowards” “above my pay grade” “I screwed up” “I won” talk – which you and others in government have mastered so well.




Again
Chelsa Clinton went to Sidwell too. Kristin Gore went to National Cathedral School. Barbara Bush went to Yale, and Jenna Bush to UT-Austin (public but a top tier school) and Chelsa to Stanford. Karenna Gore went to Harvard and then Columbia Law and her sister went to Harvard as well. The elites don't send their kids to Bonanza High School and to the University of Nevada--but top notch private schools and on to top tier (and mostly private) universities, law schools and the like. What did Twain say? The rich are different from you and me.

Wow, scarlettsnow!
What a literate, cogent, cerebral, and salient post! The disngenuous hypocrisy and artful subterfuge on the left does abound!

Are you married? Oh well, me too...

scarlettsnow
As a person who has walked over scores of battlefields from the war you cite (never gotten to Gettysburg, most of mine have been in the west--Tennessee, Mississippi, and Georgia--a few in VA though)I rarely found them to be muddy. Not that I'd go walking in them with my good shoes on anyway.

"use interns for their sexual pleasure"

True. But a two way street there. Hard to tell which was the one being used in that case. Same for the Levy case.

"...take money from governments around the world, and have no shame."

But Reagan did as well and others after.

"They present biased opinions and call themselves the media."

On both sides.

"Black has no more suffering than Brown, no more sorrow than Red, no more agony than Yellow, no more pain than White, no more rights than all men."

You saying in the US that the experience of the native Americans, blacks, Hispanics and Asians were no worse than what whites experienced? Come now. That's 100% false. As for no more rights, that is 100% correct--in theory--but thanks to some policies some are more equal than others it seems. Blacks and Hispanics are given much more in regards to AA/EO than Asians and whites.


reply to: Akagi
Off topic about colleges...

... did you know that our own flagship universities here in Georgia have become much more elite/competitive due to the HOPE? Ga. Tech is arguably the top PUBLIC engineering school-- recent SAT average 1,360, traditional measure. (Cal Tech and MIT are private schools).

But the real stunner is UGA, which has risen a good 200 points over the past 10 years or so, because the HOPE has been keeping more bright kids in state who used to go to UNC, UVA, Vandy, Duke, W&M, Washington and Lee, perhaps Furman, the Ivy's, etc.

My daughters illustrate my point-- one just graduated PBK and Summa from UGA... the other is a President's Scholar (top 2%) at Ga. Tech... they could have gone almost anywhere, but we could not justify the cost differential.

My wife and I graduated from Emory (2nd competitively behind Duke in the South), but no way would I pay for that today--even if I could.

UGA
UGA has been getting tough to get in for years--it still isn't a UNC and not in the top 200 in the world (Emory is 62 and Tech is 83), but it isn't Ole Miss or Georgia Southern either.

Most of the insane "Dawg" fans you see swamp Athens 6 Saturdays each fall could never get into UGA--especially now. UGA made a choice, grow large into Ohio State South (OSU is 121 on the list) or keep the citizens of Athens from going down College Avenue with torches by keeping the level at 30,000 students, but by doing that it has raised standards way up and that is keeping more and more out. Many of these end up at Ga. State or Ga. Southern or Kennesaw (and being where it--KSU--is located, Owls is a stupid mascot for them, Generals would have been so much better).

Be interesting to see in years as more students (and thus members of the Gold Dome) become Ga. Southern or Ga. State or Kennesaw alums how that will impact funding for UGA.

If you recall, also black enrollment dropped to what 6% and blacks around campus began to wear shirts saying 6% on them in protest of the low black enrollment numbers. May have been even 3% I forget now.

See link for the Times world rankings.



http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/hybrid.asp?typeCode=2 43

Rankings
Oracle:

According to the Times, Duke is best in the South at 13 and #2 is Emory at 62. I think if you make less than so much..40,000? You can go to Duke for free, well not you per se but your child.

Don't like Duke though. Such a far-left bedwetting, liberal hellhole. I think it was basically the charter member of PC-USA.


Freedom of Association
If I only want to party with Hispanics - what's it to you anyway? Pat's absolutely right. Can Holder get to actual work on stuff like prosecuting terrorists - we are paying him after all.


Holder
I think Holder doesn't get it that if you do have a frank discussion on race, it won't go well. If you hold the position that while there is racism in America--on all sides--the plight of most is a result of their own decisions and not racism. That most whites aren't racist and that there is little "institutionalized" racism either. If there were there would be no President Obama or Eric Holder as far as that goes.

If you put this position out to most blacks, you'd be called naive at best. So why bother? And it works both ways, I can tell you from what white friends have told me of going to black churches as a friend of one of the members of the church that he was made to feel very unwelcomed even a feeling of hostility by the black membership there. While most whites don't care if they see a black-white couple, Spike Lee (Hollywood's favorite bigot), if he sees a white guy with a black girl gives them the "evil eye (his own words)."

The few times I have experienced what one could call racism in this country it was from a black guy protesting over the treatment of Mumia Abu-Jamal (aka Wesley Cook the cop killer).

It's not that we are cowards, it is we know not to teach pigs to sing as you'll only waste you time and annoy the pig. Talking to most blacks about racism and race is a road to no where.


Holder is an idiot!
He is speaking way below his pay grade. He wasn't "hired" (ha ha)to "instruct" us on race. He is a world-class nincompoop if he thinks any of the true thinkers/producers of this country give a good God damn about what he says. Somehow he thinks he's special since he's got a bro in the bully pulpit. NOOOOOT!!!!

they make it their business


The American of color won't be helped by talk. He can ordinarily talk your arm off. I wouldn't even consider talking to Chris Rock, Whoopi Goldberg, or any rapper. Talking is their trade. I'll talk pleasantries with elderly black ladies at the super, or a black guy serving table.

The best thing Holder might accomplish is so SIMPLE. Summon Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, some of the leading rap stars to a meeting. With all his authority, inform them that Obama's administration wants them to QUIT the race argument under penalty of instant deployment t Afghanistan; on gov't business. To "entertain the troops," ostensibly. Without those SOB's to stir the pot all the time, peace might eventually break out. The rabble-rousers and lawyers are benefiting by this age-old division. Put a muzzle on them!

Bravo, Pat
Pat hits a home run, which he usually does as long as he stays away from writing about the Middle East. Holder's charge of cowardice doesn't ring true, as frank discussions of race usually degenerate into irrelevancies such as "reparations", as though the descendants of slaves will never by whole unless they rob the rest of the country's taxpayers for actions a century-and-a-half old.

No time to read all the posts...
Just to say, that were I the owner of a small business with the option of hiring either illegals (who will just shut up & do the work) or fat, lazy, stupid ghetto-monsters who are likely to file a civil rights suit if I so much as require them to do the work... well, it's a no-brainer.

The fact that these people are unemployed can be looked at from several angles. I was around Detroit in the late '60s when anything that could move could get a job, and, guess what? Crime was soaring. People were dropping out. The welfare lines were enormous. Race was being blamed. Riots ensued. It was a mess.

NO economic magic is going to fix this problem. It is as much a part of the American fabric as apple pie & baseball. What we have here is a significant part of the population for which there is no getting beyond stupid & lazy & criminal. Live with that fact! Talk race. Blame the poor economy. Close borders until you're blue in the face. But it shall persist!

reply to: pb
Don't mince words-- tell us what you REALLY THINK! ;>)

Seriously, the demographics by race are often stunning... half of black males by age 30 have done time. Social pathologies among blacks and Hispanics are HIDEOUS--> dropouts, illegitimacies, crimes, drugs, gang prevalence... you can try to blame those things on "poverty," but why then are such problems not omnipresent among all "poor people"... and our so-called poor people are FAR better off than most in the rest of the world... it is a facile, but vacuous excuse:

http://www.heritage.org/Research/welfare/bg2064.cfm

reply to oracle 1
I was never able to beat around the bush and never understood the tendency in others. What's good enough for Socrates is good enough for me.
Commentators on the American scene -- go back as far as you want & include all the heavy-weights, like Henry James -- have been footnoting the fact of the laziness & dysfunction of these people and shaking their heads at the prospect of somehow, somewhere being able to remedy it. It is significant that in this day & age they are the ones to be shunned -- designated as 'racist.'
My thought is that as a society we are doomed -- until the so-called 'N-word' can again be uttered as an apt description applicable to these people by anyone, white or black. I'm not holding my breath.
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