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Friday, February 13, 2009
Pat Buchanan :: Townhall.com Columnist
Obama and the Great Game
by Pat Buchanan
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The day before Richard Holbrooke arrived in Kabul, eight suicide bombers and gunmen attacked the Justice and Education ministries, killing 26 and wounding 57.

Kabul was paralyzed, as the Taliban displayed an ability to wreak havoc within a hundred yards of the presidential palace.

The assault came as President Obama is both conducting a strategic review and deciding how many additional U.S. troops to send.

Earlier, there was talk of 30,000, bringing the U.S. total to 63,000. Now, there are reports Obama may commit no more than the three brigades promised in 2008, and only one brigade now.

Clearly, the United States is checking its hole card. Can we draw to a winning hand? Or is this hand an inevitable loser -- and we must cut our losses and cede the pot? No longer, anywhere, is there talk of "victory."

Nor is the diplomatic news good.

Last week, Kyrgyzstan gave us six months to vacate Manas, the air base used to resupply U.S. forces. A week before, guerrillas blew up a bridge in the Khyber, cutting the 1,000-mile supply line from Karachi to Kabul. Before that, guerrillas bombed U.S. truck parks in Pakistan.

While in Pakistan, Holbrooke was told by all to whom he spoke that, while U.S. Predator strikes may be killing Taliban and al-Qaida, the deaths among tribal peoples are turning Pakistan against us.

What would winning Afghanistan for democracy profit us, if the price were losing a nuclear-armed Pakistan to Islamism?

The expulsion from Manas, after Kyrgyzstan received a reported $2 billion in aid from Moscow, raises a question.

Is Russia restarting "The Great Game" she played against Victoria's Empire in Central Asia, which ended in 1907 with a British-Russian entente, dividing Iran into spheres of influence, with both sides agreeing to keep hands off Afghanistan?

As Russia has as great an interest in preventing an Islamist Kabul, and has assisted NATO's resupply of its forces, why would Moscow seek to expel us from a base vital to the war effort?

Does Russia simply seek to be recognized by the United States as the hegemon of Central Asia, the sole great power that decides who can and who cannot use former Soviet bases?

For if Manas is closed and the Karachi-Khyber-Kabul supply line is compromised or cut, Obama would seem to have but three options.

First would be to go back, hat-in-hand, to Islam Karimov, the Uzbek ruler charged with grave human rights violations, and ask him to reopen the Karshi-Khanabad (K2) air base, from which we were expelled in 2005. And what would be Karimov's asking price?

Second is the Russia option. If Moscow now holds the whip hand in the old Soviet republics, what is Moscow's price to let us remain in Manas or use other Soviet bases over which it wields veto power?

The answer is obvious. Neither Georgia nor Ukraine is to be brought into NATO. The independence of Abkhazia and South Ossetia, won in the August war with Georgia, is not to be challenged. The U.S anti-missile missiles planned for Poland are not to be deployed.

In turn, Russia will cancel any missile deployment in Kaliningrad, recommits to the terms of all conventional forces agreements in Europe and assist in the effort in Afghanistan. Russia rejoins the West, and the West stays off Russia's front porch.

Be not surprised if the Russians come trolling before an overextended American empire an end to the Great Game in Central Asia like the one the ministers of Nicholas II offered the ministers of Edward VII.

And the third option? It is Iran.

Before 9-11, Iran was more hostile to the anti-Shia Taliban than we, and it has no desire to see them return. Indeed, Tehran was a supporter of the U.S. wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, as both were ruled by mortal enemies.

The long way for U.S. and NATO war materiel to reach Kabul via Iran would be through a Turkey-Kurdistan-Iran supply line. The shorter would be from Iranian ports straight into Afghanistan.

Price of an entente? An end to the 30-year U.S.-Iranian cold war and a strategic bargain whereby Iran is allowed to develop peaceful nuclear power, under supervision, the United States lifts its embargo, and regime change is left to the Iranian people.

President Ahmadinejad, no fool, and facing an uncertain election this year, is already signaling interest in negotiations with Obama.

A complication. How would "Bibi" Netanyahu and Avigdor Lieberman regard a U.S.-Iran rapprochement -- to prevent a Taliban triumph in Kabul?

Yet, if the Taliban's enemies in Russia, Iran, Pakistan and Central Asia will not assist us, this war cannot end well. And if they will not help, Obama should cut America's losses, come home and let their neighbors deal with a triumphant Taliban.

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About The Author
Pat Buchanan is a founding editor of The American Conservative magazine, and the author of many books including State of Emergency: The Third World Invasion and Conquest of America .
 
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©Creators Syndicate
While Our Emperor is Fiddling
with the treasury and our freedom the other communists are plotting and gathering allies against us.

Meanwhile we are waiting for the world to realize that it loves US because we have
"The One" who can talk.

It's Not 3 am
yet but soon it will be.

Do you feel as safe as you did last year?

Let the neighbors deal
with a triumphant taliban?

Pat, we attacked them because they refused to give us Osama, who'd set up the 9/11 hit in OUR country. They did not attack their neighbors, and if they come back they'll revenge themselves on US. Have you forgotten all this?

Does anyone remember Hillary?
Everyone has seen or been washed in our dirty laundry. No longer are we the deep pocket. We don't even have a gold credit card.

So someone at the top had better know how to play hardball if necessary with no chips showing.

Excellent article Pat.
Don Jones, PresidentialBalls.com

Isn't Afghanistan the right war?
President Obama is going to handle the war in Afghanistan the same war he's handle the economy. He's going to blame it on Bush. We are going to be told how he inherited the war like he inherited the economy and doing something is better then doing nothing. We're going to be reminded that it's going to be rough going and his policy is to listen and not dictate like Bush did. Should anyone be surprised if Russia is behind the scenes in getting us expelled from a base vital to the war effort. It's payback time for the Russians.

Unimpressed
If Buchanan knew half as much as he thinks he does, he'd be dangerous.

MILITARY KNOW-IT-ALLS
I find is astonishing how people like Pat Buchanan, who used some cockamamie excuse to avoid being drafted during the Vietnam War and everyone I see on this Townhall site have avoided military service, but they seem to think they know all about what our military should be doing.

As for me, I was just a lowly Corporal (E-4) in the United States Army Combat Engineers and a Korean War veteran, but I would NEVER think just because I served MY COUNTRY in the military that I know how to run the military like Pat Buchanan and the rest of the Townhall writers do.


Bandu
Al Quaeda operatives attacked the WTC Towers by travelling to the US and taking flying lessons with the exception of take-off and landing. Is it really an insurmountable task to get control of our southern border and limit the amount of people coming into our country ? We know the profile of potential terrorists . Gee in fact in spite of our lax immigration laws which idiot Bush intentionally did not enforce, homeland security has been pretty effective.


Good analysis Pat
If Bush were around for a third term (thank God he is not ) he would have to eat crow and make a overtures to Iran. I heard Richard Pearle tell the story how Iran was placed in that axis of evil speech: Pearle stated that he called David Frum (Bush speech writer) and include Iran ! Period. Idiot Bush just went ahead and let two pieces of excrement dictate foreign policy which left the europeans perplexed since they witnessed the cooperation that Iran provided with respect to the Iraq and Afghan wars .

A Black Hole
One thing about Afghanistan that nobody seems to pay attention to is that the mujaheddin love to fight. They have been fighting for centuries against the Greeks, the British, and the Russians, among many other enemies. It's a way of life in that country, the only thing that they do well. There's a warrior class that dominates the history and philosophy of this misbegotten country. The best strategy might be to just isolate this "island in the mountains" and let the mujaheddin destroy themselves.

Stupid conjecture
Pat, you just outdid yourself, what a dumb article.
First of all, continuing with boots on the ground in Afghanistan is sheer folly. We absolutely no clear objectives or even a solid purpose to be there anymore. "Victory", if you could define it, is at best a very murky subject.
There is no way we can transform a primitive tribal society into a "Democracy" unless we start thinking in terms of Centuries, not years.
We should pull out of there immediately an leave those barbarians to their own fate.
The only excuse we hear for the "reasons" of us being there are to inhibit new Al-Quaeda training camps. This can easily be controlled from above, in fact we destroyed those training camps within a few days and can do so anytime again. Meanwhile enormous Al-Quaeda camps are thriving in Somalia and the Sudan. Are we going to put troops on the ground there too?

Sober analysis by Buchanan
There has been alot of speculation that the U.S. may be able to coopt some of the moderate factions of the Taliban, turning them into allies, and enlist their aid in destroying the more radical of the Taliban, and of course al Qaida.

It is not that different than what Petraeus did in Iraq, arming and putting on the U.S. payroll some former Sunni insurgents who had been previously killing our troops.

It is a dirty business.

Buchanan has it about right.

I worry much more about Pakistan than Iran.

Elections in Iran may, if we don't succumb to the warmongering rhetoric of the previous administration, result in a win for the moderates, and a defeat for Ahmadinejad.

Yes, the ruling Mullahs have the final say, but they can't ignore the will of the moderates forever.

In the past, Mohammad Khatami and Rafsanjani were both elected and served, and both are regarded as moderates.

Bush's moronic blatherings on Iran had the effect of undermining the moderates, and helped to bring about the electoral victory of Ahmadinejad in 2005.

Let's stop shooting ourselves in the foot.

I vote for Russia
This is rightfully their backyard and a de facto alliance between Washington and Moscow would have many advantages, not the least of which is saying f-k off to the Middle East and their oil.

Egon, Bad Mood
Egon, I think Pat agrees with you that more troops on the ground in Afghanistan will do nothing without the assistance of Iran, Pakistan, Russia and Central Asia(his last paragraph).

And to my way of thinking, their "assistance" would mean the overwhelming bulk of troops deployed there.

Certainly Buchanan has long argued(correctly)that bleeding our Beloved Republic dry in order to democratize the Muslim world is a fool's errand.

And your post seems to support Pat on that.

Bad Mood, there are many areas where our interests and Russia's coincide.

I think Obama will reject the needless confrontation exhibited by Bush on Russia.

She is a great power, even now, and rejects external powers meddling in the affairs of her neighbors.

We once had our Monroe Doctrine, telling external(European)powers to butt out of the affairs of our neighbors in our hemisphere.


Hindsight and Foresight?
Pat usually just speculates on what should have been done using is 20-20 hindsight. Now he has a crystal ball. Bottom line is he always wants us to retreat into our boarders and let everything else work itself out. If it were only that simple maybe someone would have voted for him.

There is no good answer-quit
We tried mightily and at great cost to bring Democracy to Iraq and Afghanistan. The people there have had years to take charge of their own fate and defeat the jihadist IF they wanted to do so. But President Bush was weak in his application of force and rebuilding. Obama will be worse; any forces he sends to Afghanistan will be strictly Show and Tell-Dog and Pony. It would be a loss of more blood and treasure without good affect.
These tribal and religious alliances are the heart and soul of the Iraqi and Afghan-our western heritage of autonomy and rights is but a far off concept to them--If they want Democracy they will gain it the way so many others have-take it.

We have done what we can do--our Sacred Dead litter the land. That any more American blood should be shed is just wrong. Come home, quit Mohammedan Land, Europe, the Balkans and Korea. The rest of the world needs to fend for it's self. If Europe is afraid of Russia THEY can build an Army; Europe is bigger than the US or Russia.

America Come Home. Let this generation prosper.

Pat Buchannan-coward and more cowardice
Pat:
Next time you write an article, try to somehow use your backbone and understand..appeasement NEVER works..listen you coward...appeasement never works...and your libtard core, in some type of conservative clothing will prove once again...appeasement never works...Grow a set and understand it is not a GAME!!!!!

Incisive Analysis
NOTES FROM ZENTRIST

Thanks to Pat, we don't need to plow through inch-thick "foreign affairs" journals to get a few original ideas.

He is even better, at times, than the best of the Weekly Standard--and with a point of view not found in that particular dogma.

One does have the feeling that the world is in a perfect storm right now. Foreign and domestic.

Leo Tolstoy was still alive in 1907. His comments about Lincoln, quoted in Doris Goodwin's "Team of Rivals," should be read by everyone including the skeptics.

President Obama: Keep on reading Goodwin and Jaffa and Holzer and Oates and deAlvarez and Thurow and countless others who've appreciated the greatness of Lincoln. An my professor said, "we need another Lincoln."

Fortunately, I believe, we have one in President Obama. Ironically, Barack will be the one to put "country first."

Why don't we send . . .
obama to the taliban? Since he is a muslim they should get along well. The only difference between obama and osama is a little "b" "s"

Ignorance abound
You can hire all the best personnel to do a job but if you regulate them out of performing their speciality than what is the purpose of hiring them in the first place. Military leaders being restricted from ever leading have no chance of ever winning anything. As a self proclaimed Christian the president and congressional leaders should be aware of the adverse conditions Jesus faced by the religious leaders of his time.

facts
Buchanan throws facts around along with opinions. Pakistan is lost because it was never 'found.' It's been a radical muslim country for a long time. We only work with them when they let us, when it suits the governments wishes. We don't have much of a relationship with Pakistan to lose.

Sticky
No matter how rational a policy in the Middle East seems, it always comes down to "what will Israel think or do?". Buchanan ends his article with that same question. Afghanistan has nothing for us--just opium. What do we care about anything that goes on there? That will ultimately be a problem for Russia, let Russia handle it when they feel they must. We need to take 2 actions now. 1. Pull out of Afghanistan--save our soldiers for areas where we have a bona fide National interest. 2. Quit blindly supporting Israel as though we and we alone must insure the fulfillment of Biblical prophesies. If Israel is right and the timing is right, they will prevail. We have given Israel nuclear weapons, armed them better than any other country in the Middle East (using tax dollars), they should now be left to their own interests. We should disengage.

Mob rule
Why would we want to win Afghanistan for democracy? Our Founders learned from the Greeks and rejected democracy (mob rule). They founded a limited-government (Amendment 10) republic (a government of laws) in Article 4, Section 4.

Unfortunately, the mob wanted us to degenerate into a "wonderful" democracy so they could buy and steal 50.01% of the votes and then force other people's stuff into their pockets and/or to force their vision of America down everyone's throats.

All this with the assistance of our democratic government monopoly education and indoctrination system which forces all children to march in lockstep with the dictates of the mob. Individual freedom/responsibility is no longer even a goal in the USA.

Even a blind pig finds an acorn sometime
In spite of Buchannon's long term anti-Semitism
(which regardless of your attitudes about Judaism, you have to believe that Israel better represents the kind of societies you want to have in the mid-East compared to about any of the others), his isolationistic solution of coming home and letting the Pakistani's and Russians and Iranians sort it out is a viable solution. The problem is that 1) negotiating something with Iran (even if it means sacrificing Israel) is politically more popular with the people Obama has to please, and 2) coming home means the conservatives will paint abandoning Afghanistan to the "tender" mercies they so deserve as "quitting or losing"

Bill
Thank you for your sevice, Corporal; combat engineers had/have it tough -- in every war.

Far be it for me to take up for Pat -- I think he went off plumb after he lost his run for president -- he used to exhibit common sense, if nothing else.

You are incorrect about the lack of military folks on TH. I've only be frequenting this site for four-five months, but I have seem something approaching the majority who have indicated past (or present) military service.

And, Sir, some of us have participated in military planning or have wide-ranging experience. I don't know Seawolf's rank, but I've never seen him post anything that did not indicate firm knowledge of the subject at hand. (Seawolf is only one example.)

It is fitting and proper for the military to be under civilian control, otherwise we'd have a banana republic. But, the civilians have to have enough common sense (whatever) to evaluate the performance of a flag officer. That attribute is few and far between -- and I have seen nothing in the Obama administration to indicate the slighest expertise in this area. I base this on those he has appointed to cabinet and other positions.

A "lowly" uneducated blue collar worker has as much right (and maybe knowledge) to comment when something is FUBAR as does an ivy league type educated beyond his/her intelligence . . and Lord knows there are more than enough of them!.

dave
If you can't even spell Buchanan's name right, why should we value anything else you have to say?


SEADOG
I wasn't addressing the people who make comments,but TH staff of columnists who for the most part never served a day in the uniform of the United States miitary.

Thanks for your service.

PAT BUCHANAN SHOULD READ THIS.
Pat Buchanan is like so many of the columnist on TV. They haven't got a clue what is going on in Iraq and Afghanistan. I suggest they read my blog that gets over 1,000 "hits" a day from people want the TRUTH about the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan: CORKSPHERE: http://corksphere.blogspot.com

Winning Afghanistan?
You say, "What would winning Afghanistan for democracy profit us, if the price were losing a nuclear-armed Pakistan to Islamism?" I see no hope for the former and think the latter is a done deal.

Osama, Hezbollah, Hamas and the Taliban are the tip of the Islamist spear which is spreading like a cancer throughout Europe with who knows how many cells already ensconced in the U.S., the latter now being led by an administration that is totally clueless about the impending threat. And yes, the Bush administration was clueless in this regard too.

"Obama should cut America's losses, [bring our troops] home and let their neighbors deal with a triumphant Taliban." How do you think their neighbors would fare given a Taliban with nuclear weapons? How will the west fare given the nuclear capability of Iran?

How will the U.S. fare given a President and an administration that wants to make nice with the Islamists, sort of like Neville Chamberlain with Hitler only more apologetic for what he, like his Liberal supporters, see as America's faults.

Sorry! All I have are questions.......no answers.


Bill in IL
Went to your blogspot. None of the links work. Tried cutting and pasting - still nothing. Just thought I'd let you know.

Afghanistan
Once again Mr. Buchanan has used his superior intellect to perfectly analyze the options before President Obama, in regards to our position in Afghanistan.

Notice that Buchanan did not mention
airbases in Pakistan.

US actually had upgraded many of these (Sargodha, Peshawar, Chaklala, Samungli, ...) during 1950's and 1960's to NATO standard. Arguments in favour:
(*) the US already used some of them during subsection (1951-1969) of Cold War--in 1962's U2 incident, Powers had taken off from Peshawar.
(*) already, Pakistan is allowing "secret" usage (this morning, Feinstein revealed that the Predator drones used for several raids had taken off from a PAF base--though without revealing which one) even while making much ado about collateral damage

OBAMA AND THE GREAT GAME
It is one thing to not agree with Buchanan on Israel. I am not quite sure, I even do. Yet you can't say he isn't consistant. He has criticized almost all foreign conflicts since the Reagan years. Yet, I have a really problem with those who are out to call him an anti-Semite, because he is making a valid point that even our own President, and the rest of the beltway is too scared to make. The folks that want him outed from Townhall.com can simply choose not to read his posts, if they are that offended by them. I myself, look forward to reading his column every week. He adds to the debate and discussion, and has the knowledge and experience to back up his opinions.

Pat Buchanan is a true conservative and a patriot and not only deserves a voice, but has earned it. Maybe that is why so many want to take it away. While Sean Hannity is always saying that he is a "conservative first" (which is total B.S.), Buchanan is an American first, and a conservative, second.


Russia, Iran, etc.
Buchanan is not an anti-Semite. He is a conservative, but his foriegn affairs analysis, colored by his extreme isolationist outlook, is usually all wet. If I'm wrong, I apologize, but I believe Buchanan was the one, for example, who wrote a column a while back arguing that Chamberlain was right and, basically, had Britain and the U.S. stayed out of Hitler's hair and not deprived Japan of oil, they probably would have been fine, an utterly delusional reading of history.

Concerning Russia, Obama should tell Putin and his puppet that if they don't back off, the United States will make their lives a living hell, which we can do in many ways, economically, militarily and otherwise. Then, if need be, BO should make good on the threat.

On Iran, Tehran should have been nuked no later than the day our military and intelligence people were convinced Iran was supplying materiel and training used to kill American troops in Iraq.

Iraq-- the wrong war of choice
At what cost Iraq?!?! It matters GREATLY because it impacts our other options such as Afghanistan.

Presidente Jorge went ballistic back when an aide projected an all-in cost of $200 billion for Iraq-- we passed that euphemistic estimate LONG AGO! We are now slouching toward an all-in cost of $3 TRILLION!

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/guest_c ontributors/article3419840.ece

Doesn't it make you wonder how the cost could be so egregious and colossal?! Ironically, the profligate spending also helped set the table for the ObaMessiah to spend to redefine America, just as the neoCON "compassionate conservatives" did with Rx Care for Seniors and other government-growing initiatives that make real conservatives cringe.

The Iraq war largesse (arguably a TOTAL waste) is a cool $40,000 per American household of 4... or $600,000 per Israeli citizen. The war was REALLY engendered by the neoCONS then pulling Jorge's strings Wolfy, Perle, Feith, Abrams, Wurmser, Libby) to take out Saddam and Iraq (which had NOTHING to do with 9/11) and establish permanent AMERICAN bases there to protect Israel, as spelled out CLEARLY way back in 1996 by the neoCON/Pan-Israeli Project for the New American Century (PNAC):

http://www.csmonitor.com/specials/neocon/spheresInfluence.h tml
http://www.theobjectivestandard.com/issues/2007-summer/neoc onservative-foreign-policy.asp
http://sabbah.biz/mt/archives/2006/09/02/john-mearsheimer-a nd-stephen-walt-pro-israel-lobby-influence-over-us-foreign- policy-on-the-recent-israel-lebanon-war/
http://tvnewslies.org/html/pnac_neo-con_artists.html

Opinions are NOT facts!
It is obvious these comment forums are really just a place for mostly powerless people to engage in the self-aggrandizement of their own egos.
The Internet provides an opportunity for every semi-educated yokel to set up their own "blog", and proclaim themselves "journalists" . . . even if they have no professional or serious academic specialty in objective investigation or history. What a farce! Uneducated "democracy" at work!
One person, however, did pose a very legitimate question . . . given Buchanan's desire to let the Taliban's neighbors "deal with them". How EXACTLY are those neighbors prepared to "deal with them" if and when the Taliban -- in the ABSENCE of an American military presence -- gains power in Pakistan, and takes control of that shaky nation's nuclear weapons?

Hold Your Horses, Oracle1
Before you go crying the Iraq was mistake card, think about what you are saying. The Baath party which Saddam Hussein, butcher of Bagdad, headed was a state sponsor of terror. So what if we have bases to protect Israel ? Do we need another Holocaust ? Is that what you want ? It is vital to the best interests of our country to maintain a military presence in the Middle East.

Jersey Vet is right
I really hate to even speculate on what this bunch of rookies (except for Holbrook) are gonna do..I sort of think Jersey Vet might be right, but there's no practical way to isolate
the Mujahadeen. Russia's National Pride is pretty much on the line here--they got their arses kicked rather sharply and they don't take too kindly to losing face..Guess we'll have to wait & see how my favorite 2nd lt (butter-bar at that)handles the situation..Bet he wishes he'd lost this election? No? not yet!!

Axis of evil...how dumb was Bush?
The silliest thing that GWB ever did was in making that axis of evil speech, most specifically by assaulting Iran in that provocative infamous line. Don't forget this was just after Iran had assisted the US in defeating the Taliban. When Iran had a President who had been propelled to power by moderate pro-western forces. In one inane line GWB broke the backs of the Iranian moderates and propelled this buffoon Ahmedinejad to the Presidency. I am amazed at how many former Bush advisers have claimed credit for that line, Gershon being the latest. They should all hang their heads in shame. The most shortsighted foreign policy decision ever made in the annals of world history.

What could 3 trillion had done?
Likely confirm the killing/capture of Bin Laden. Possibly fixed Israel/Palestine (Hamas would not have been elected had we helped to stabilize this region). A friendlier Iran (the re-election of the moderates rather than the election of radicals). Christians would be safe in Iraq (as they had been for 1000 years of Islamic rule). Perhaps North Korea could have been fixed in someway. Maybe even a nuclear free Pakistan/India. But, Bush threw it all away -- maybe if we put a few million troops in Afghanistan and spend 10 trillion or so we can stabilize it -- but would that be worth it? Why not act to ensure that Saudi Arabia does not fund radicals, Palestinians obtain stability of some sort, try to assist the closure of the Pakistani radical schools -- or maybe even better just wash our hands of this whole region and let Russia and India try to deal with it. Why not build so many nuclear power plants and push electric cars/trucks/buses so we do not have to deal with a need to import oil (and be reliant on energy in that area). Oh yeah, the Neocons want to "spread" Democracy -- and Democracy is always the answer just like in Weimar Germany.

Russia and Iran
Great article by Pat. We do need to think out of the box. Time for us to get Russia, and maybe Iran onside, and I think it's doable Certainly would do a lot for world peace and security.

We speculate over this stuff
while our own congress is hell-bent to bring communism to our shores under the "leadership" of the "one".

I am almost sorry I spent all that time in the Navy helping to defend a bunch of damfools who voted away their own freedom while they bleed for some third world types that are raising their children to be suicide bombers.

Cede that hemisphere to the rooskies and let them deal with the muslims in their backyard, they won't be as easygoing as we are and we can re-institute the Monroe Doctrine and take care of our side. Eventually we will both have to join up to defeat the threat of the loonies anyway, so save the resources.

I have a grandson leaving for the Marine Corps in July, I don't want him to waste his life over some craphole country populated by people who hate us no matter what we do.

Dubya was duped
re:
"Axis of evil...how dumb was Bush?"

Presidente Jorge (more concerned about embracing ILLEGAL aliens than honoring his oath to defend and protect the border) was simply duped by the neoCONS who had permeated his W.H. He publicly, proudly boasted to a Zionist group early on: "I have taken more than 20 of your members into my administration."

As chronicled in various books, such as-- "Hubris: The Inside Story of Spin, Scandal, and the Selling of the Iraq War"
by Michael Isikoff and David Corn (both Jewish)-- the intel was cooked because the Zionist perps simply wanted to take out Iraq for Israel, just as the neoCONS had called for starting in 1996. Wolfy, Perle, Wurmser, Abrams, Libby and Feith simply played Cheney and Dubya like a Stradivarius at prodigious expense to America so Israel could get some permanent AMERICAN bases in Iraq for its protection.

The neoCONS have also played the religious right for suckers with the constant braying about the Judeo-Christian heritage and bond... they equate whatever might be good with Israel as synonymous with good for America. This is why former libs, even socialists, the neoCONS glommed onto "conservatism." One must read assiduously to fathom the details of the deceit.

http://zfacts.com/p/neocons.html
http://zfacts.com/p/253.html
http://www.csmonitor.com/specials/neocon/spheresInfluence.h tml
http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/editoria ls/articles/2007/11/04/a_lazy_simplistic_analogy/

a dichotomy among American Jews

re:
"Israeli Jews are far different from American Jews Some 70%... of American Jews voted for Obama; thus they are Liberal Democrat Obamaniacs."

This is true as far as it goes. NeoCONS are often simply Zionists/Pan-Israeli's who believe that Israel cannot endure without a militant approach toward the Islamics, who outnumber Israeli's 200:1. Further, they believe that Israel MUST rely on America's strength and continual support, which must be manipulated as necessary. Generally, however, Jews have always been liberal and predominantly anti-war in bent.

The NeoCONS initially were far-left, even socialists, but they morphed to glom onto the conservative movement because it was the prevailing wind thanks to Reagan and the right-center bent of Middle America. This also helps explain the bitter debates between liberal American Jews and NeoCONS/Zionists about Iraq and the M.E. generally.

"Compassionate Conservatism" is simply the natural liberal bent of the NeoCONS bubbling up in social policy.

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/s_196286.htm l
http://www.csmonitor.com/specials/neocon/spheresInfluence.h tml
http://tvnewslies.org/html/pnac_neo-con_artists.html

Pat
Why not tell your readers the "Truth". America is trying to bring a "Pipeline" through Afghanistan and Russia is trying to stop it. If the pipeline goes through? Russia loses it's ability to manipulate Oil prices in the future. It's now a "Chess Match" and the people are "Pawns". All the people,"US" and "Them"?

TRY AGAIN, GORDON FROM TX.
Either you are not cutting and pasting right, or perhaps your message earlier was just a trick to try to steer people away from my blog, CORKSPHERE, http://corksphere.blogspot.com which tells the REAL TRUTH about the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and not garbage like Pat Buchanan and other right wingers put out.

Every video I post on the blog comes directly from the combat zones in Iraq and Afghanistan and I can tell by my StatCounter that over 1,000 people a day are going to the blog to get the TRUTH about Iraq and Afghanistan because the mainstream press no longer covers the wars, or people like Pat Buchanan mislead people with articles that fail to tell the real truth as I report it from the war zones in Iraq and Afghanistn.
Try this link again: http://corksphere.blogspot.com
It works and the videos work too.

How soon we forget
Is anyone so foolish to think Iran's leaders have changed their spots since Carter allowed the Shah to fall? Let's not kid ourselves. Iran from the time it was Persia has not changed.

Iran may have helped us with the Taliban, but don't make the mistake of thinking that means they want to make nice with us. That cooperation was nothing more than a demonstration of that middle east saying of "the enemy of my enemy is my friend".

Remember our embassy getting overrun by "students", of whom Ahmadinawackjob was probably one of? How about the bomb that killed over 250 of our marines in Lebanon?

Both Russia and Iran have consistently shown they shouldn't be trusted by prudent people.

I'm not sure why, but Pat makes the mistake of making a moral equivalence with us when it comes to dealing with other countries. He should know better.

When we leave a country, whenever possible, we would like to believe the people in the country have the best opportunity to have stability first, then secondarily, a chance for self determination. Russia has historically shown themselves deathly afraid of such an outcome in the countries they have overtaken.

All one has to do is read Karl Marx, the patron saint of Russian socialism to understand where their thinking comes from. There also seems to be an intrinsic paranoia in Russia, which was probably fueled by invasions by foreign nations over the centuries.

In any case, Reagan was right about dealing with Russia when he said "Trust but verify".


Seawolf
Good post as usual. I've a grandson deployed
over there. I am not as confidant for his or his Marines safety, I remember only too well Mogadishu and the betrayal of our people. While two older sons were Navy, I didn't encourage my youngest to enlist like his father and brothers because I didn't have any faith that clinton and his thugs would be loyal to them and I have even less that the O cares anything for their wellbeing or those 60's,
brainfried dope druggie LSD tripping DemonRat
leadership.socalled in the 9% majority. They hated and spat on them then and they are doing it again now they have ALL THAT POWER!!!!!
I am ambiguous about Iraq, I see that the people have been freed from the terror of that regime and it's torture; but how will be afford to continue now the traitors in Congress have
bankrupted U.S.? George Washington was correct
the Monroe Doctrine though needs to be upgraded given the technology of today..our Big Stick has become a twig in the hands of the magicmessiah unless it's wielded against American taxpaying citizens.

I hate
the word democracy..since it does mean mob rule those mid east countries already enjoy 'democracy' and we have also morphed from a Republic with the election of the mob in Congress to a demonratcracy.
I don't believe those countries can be converted into truly free states, because their
religion is a political entity and just as we have here, they are too opposing belief systems.
However our own elected Taliban will enforce it's religion upon us, or at least try.

Isn't it possible that Pat changed due to his
heart surgery when he had to drop out of the race? It's been said whenever people have that
radical form of surgery there's a personality change..just guessing that's all.

While our government
screws around with weakened/failing republics/democracies, socialists, communists and Islamists our economy is going down the drain and the pressures are building for a WWIII.

With competing politics, shrinking oil reserves, lack of trust, weak economies, massive 3rd world movement into old world, something or things have to give. Only time will tell.

I have little faith in this current admin (Shrillary??, The One, Susan Rice) that there is determination, backbone and ability to successfully handle the coming pressure points.

Pat PO's me sometime but at least he gets people thinking. He has been spending way too much time at NBC/PMSNBC in past couple years, it will eventually wear you down Pat.

No Representation in NorCal

Know-IT-Alls
MILITARY KNOW-IT-ALLS
I find is astonishing how people like Pat Buchanan, who used some cockamamie excuse to avoid being drafted during the Vietnam War and everyone I see on this Townhall site have avoided military service, but they seem to think they know all about what our military should be doing.

As for me, I was just a lowly Corporal (E-4) in the United States Army Combat Engineers and a Korean War veteran, but I would NEVER think just because I served MY COUNTRY in the military that I know how to run the military like Pat Buchanan and the rest of the Townhall writers

Well you don't seem to have a problem with a community organizer running this country and conducting the war in Afghanistan.

Its simple, really...
...the U.S. government needs to mind its own business and stop trying to run the world.

It absolutely ASTOUNDS me that American 'conservatives' want the govt out of THEIR lives, but see no problem with having 'our' govt involved in the lives of foreigners.

Anyone who has served the U.S. federal govt in the armed services since the War Of 1812 was a complete fool/tool.
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