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Tuesday, January 13, 2009
Pat Buchanan :: Townhall.com Columnist
An Unreflective Man
by Pat Buchanan
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With his public approval where Harry Truman's stood when he left office, George W. Bush gave his last press conference yesterday.

And like that predecessor he often identifies with, Bush showed a Trumanesque defiance of his critics -- and a Trumanesque failure to understand what ruined his presidency.

He denounced protectionism, as he has with dismissive contempt since he went to New Hampshire a decade ago. But nowhere in his defense of free trade was there any explanation for how Middle America lost 3 million manufacturing jobs in his first term and a million more in the last year.

Nowhere does there seem an awareness that the ideas he absorbed at his father's knee and the Harvard Business School had resulted in the de-industrialization of his country, an enormous and growing dependency on Japan, China and Asia for the essentials of our national life, and, now, for the borrowed money to pay for them.

Someone once defined tragedy as what happens when a beautiful theory collides with a fact. And this is what has happened every time a great empire -- be it the Spanish, British or American -- embraced free trade as its salvation.

President Bush says it was freedom that prevailed when he rejected the pleas of weak-sister Republicans and backed the surge. But what spared us a debacle in Iraq was an infusion of 30,000 combat troops, an uprising against the murderers of al-Qaida and a U.S. decision to buy off the Sunni tribes, a strategy besieged empires have pursued for centuries.

Nor does there appear in Bush's self-assurance any awareness of the cost of his Freedom Agenda. In Iraq, it is 4,000 U.S. dead, 30,000 wounded, hundreds of thousands of Iraqi dead, millions of refugees, a pogrom against an ancient Christian community, and a strategic victory for Iran and its Shia allies across the Middle East. When last heard from, the Ayatollah Sistani -- the chief Shia cleric in Iraq, who has welcomed Iranian but not American visitors -- was calling for Muslims to stand up against Israeli criminality in Gaza.

Like Woodrow Wilson before him, Bush appears to believe that the nobility of his goals -- expanding freedom and bringing an end to tyranny in our world -- validates and will sanctify his decisions.

Like Wilson, he is a utopian. He fails to understand that idealism has its delusions and disasters.

The war Wilson led us into "to make the world safe for democracy" gave us Vladimir Lenin, Joseph Stalin and 70 years of the most barbaric empire in all history. The peace Wilson brought home led straight to Adolf Hitler, the Third Reich and a second world war far worse than the first.

The West's road to hell has been paved with good intentions.

President Bush rightly denounces Europeans who see Israel as always wrong. Yet he behaves as though Israel can do no wrong. Sixteen days into the Gaza war, with the Palestinian dead and wounded near 5,000, and a humanitarian catastrophe at hand, has our "compassionate conservative" president uttered one word of compassion for those whose losses outnumber the Israelis' 100 to one?

In defending his rejected immigration reform, President Bush clearly sees himself as in the vanguard of decency, and admonishes his party against being perceived as anti-immigrant.

But is this president oblivious to what is happening in his country because of his and his father's failure to secure the border? Even in rich, liberal Montgomery County, Md., one reads over the weekend that there is a hardening of attitudes toward illegal immigration after a spate of crimes and killings. Working-class Americans pay the price of the idealism around the dinner table at the Crawford ranch.

In his first five years, Bush himself has admitted, 6 million aliens were arrested at the border, breaking into this country. One in 12 -- 500,000 -- had criminal records. Is it anti-immigrant to demand a halt to this invasion, even if it means troops on the border? Is it truly compassionate, or an act of cravenness, to insist that the answer is amnesty for 12 million to 20 million illegals and absolution for the businesses that hired them?

Choleric and cocky Harry Truman may be Bush's role model. But it was Dwight D. Eisenhower who had to clean up the mess Harry left behind.

Six months into office, Ike had ended the Korean War. He had the courage no president has since shown to tell the Israelis they must get off occupied land. They did.

While surely repelled by Nikita Khrushchev, especially for the Hungarian bloodbath of 1956, Ike had him up to Camp David in 1959 because, wicked as the Bolsheviks were, they had nuclear weapons, and one must talk to them.

Prudence is the mark of the true conservative. Ike and Ronald Reagan had it. Neither Bush nor Truman did. And that is why the former left the country so much better off than did the latter.

Goodbye, Mr. President, and God bless.

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About The Author
Pat Buchanan is a founding editor of The American Conservative magazine, and the author of many books including State of Emergency: The Third World Invasion and Conquest of America .
 
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I'm disappointed...
I was always a Bush suppporter, but he has left me completely disappointed and disenchanted. Obama doesn't have to bring socialism to the Office with him, it's already there. Bush opened the Pandora's Bailout Box and just warmed things up for Obama. Sad...

Brent Riggs
http://www.riggsreport.com

2spothipshot once again exposes
his incredible hatred and stupidity in a single paragraph. Congrats.


Pat
War is not about being fair and balanced. So, you think Israel should have as many dead as Gaza? I bet if Hamas would pledge to stop firing rockets into Israel and actually back that up the fighting will end. But as long as they continue to do that they get everything they deserve and more.

Only an incredibly stupid
person would call other Americans "nazi's" simply because they question the actions of a foreign nation. No true American would ever do such a thing. That indicates more respect and love for a foreign nation than your own.

Some might even call such an attitude un-American if not outright treasonous. Why not save up your coins, or your welfare checks if that's the case, and relocate to that country that you seem to value more than the United States of America.

Then you would not have to worry about all those American nazi's you see arounbd every corner.

And be sure to check your closet for American nazi's before having someone tuck you into bed. It must be difficult to live in perpetual fear and hatred of imaginary enemies.

What a goober.


Buchanan, If the Hamas control Gaza
why are they bombing Israel? If they send rockets into Israel why can't Israel bomb them back?

As for illegals, why is Bush the blame for adding shamnesty when it was Kennedy who did it? We need an immediate mandate that any illegal that doesn't come forward for a temporary visa will be automatically and permanently removed. And once we determine who the criminals and jobless are start rounding them up.

And after 9/11 tolerating Saddam's under the table terror support and sanction busting while violating the UN demands for 12 years was not an option for President Bush but quite obviously, available to Monday morning quarterbacks like yourself. Heck, if Wilson could cause communism by getting into a European war the same year as Lenin's rise to power and Hitler really didn't need defeating per an earlier article, you need to check out getting on the NFL network.

Goodbye and good riddance
to Jorge Bush....free compean and ramos before you leave.....

I agree with you on the immigration and trade issues Pat...but as far as Israel goes...it seems to me that they are letting everyone know that their blood isn't cheap anymore...but don't blame me..I voted for YOU!

h20skier
Pat did not say that Israel should have as many dead as the Pals. It's Israel's incredibly out of proportion response that he was referring to.

Yesm Hamas is wrong (and stupid) to fire those rockets into Israel. But the fact of the matter is that Israel has more traffic deaths in a single month than those Hamas rockets have killed in 8 years.

Our government was begging India not to over-react when nut cases from Pakistan killed over 370 innocent civilians in the recent Mumbai attack. Yet we seem to support a nation that drops 150 tons of bombs on a heavily populated area and then launches a huge ground attack because of 28 deaths over an 8 year period.

It defies both logic and common sense and it will neither solve the problem nor help Israel in the long run. Such actions seldom do.

BTW 2spitshot
Since you think that my nation, the United States of America, is so populated by American nazi's here is your ticket to escape from such a terrible place and go to a nation that you seem to value above your own. Good luck and good riddance...if you are smart enough to fill out the forms.

http://www.expatforum.com/articles/visas-permits-and-immigr ation/israel-visas-permits-and-immigration.html

More economic illiteracy
To improve my standard of living, we shouldn't just stop trade between countries. We should prohibit trade between states, cities, counties. Heck, let's pass a law that restricts trade to people living next door to you. You want history Pat? Try Smoot-Hawley.

Wow tom in Wisconsin,
..that was fast! I see you're contemplating my offer to take up a collection on your behalf. Well, you just give the thums up and I'll put out a post on my blog to see if we can't get you to the land of milk and honey. Or was that, "the land of wahabi money".

Better hurry, I heard open enrollment -of infidels- ends soon!

2spothipshot
As an Irish-American Catholic (also initialed PB) I'd first mention that Buchanan had one Irish grandmother. The rest of his genetic mix is English, German & Scot. Probably closely resembling your own. If you have one.

Second, your German is as mangled as your assumptions about history. I get that you've never read a book, but you must have seen a film here or there along the way. You know, with the signs & posters & thingies reading 'Sieg Heil!'?

Third, as a native of the mid-west & currently in residence there, I'd have to say that I am most relieved that you apparently can prosper out there in la-la land. The farther from me the better. Please stay put.

How long have you been out?

Sierra Club leaders and Bush agree ...
... on open borders, which shows you how the utopian cluelessness of the left and the utopian cluelessness of the, uh, whatever Bush is can seamlessly merge to destroy us all.

Wow, that's a real mouthful "pb"
Keep pulling and you're sure to get your reward.

Your obsession w/ bloodlines is a curiosity to me. However, you seem to imply that I would be spared in yours and heir pattys' "reeducation" camps. I obviously need them, not knowing how to spell proper German and all. Oops! Sorry commandant pb, that wasn't properly respectful vus it? I should have set, "In za Fader Lant, ve speek ze proper vay! Or shmutz, into za oven ve go! Hiel pb! (Oops, did it again) Heil pb! Zeig Heil!

Thanks again for the nazi spelling lesson and I'll try to get my papers in order so you can see that I have the proper "genetic mix" as you say. My kids are not all white though so, if you could arrange for a special dispensation, I'll point out a few "jooooos" in my neighborhood for ya...

'Unreflective'?
The framers of the Constitution had one man in mind when they described the office & powers of the President. They wanted him in there for life... or beyond, if possible. None of his successors has filled those shoes.
To expect that someone should have is a high compliment. But, get real Pat! It's an elective office, term-limited, checked & balanced. You sound like Michael the Archangel is the standard by which we should measure these two presidents.
W & Truman: both honorable men who faced tough times & made tough decisions & ALWAYS put the interests of the country ahead of their own. We're better off for both of them.

Mr. Buchanan,,
you are an honest and gracious man. Two qualities your critics are unable to grasp. Thanks for your assessment.

2spothipshot
I guess I should have asked what you're drinking.

And another Herm joins the fray!
Welcome jimpy in Fl. It's always nice to have another one of the "boys from Brazil" (see pb, I HAVE seen a film). Oh, and pb, brilliant use of the (almost never used) reference to drinking. Very original. Well, anyway, good luck with that whole, my "spiritual" leader is into, pedophilia thing.

I hope that someday your church believes in protecting the innocent more than it does its own image. But then, we are talking about those morally confused lamebrains who put The One in office aren't we?

pb
Ignorant people do not require drinking to make a fool of themselves. Look at poor lil low IQ 2pothipshot or whatever name he dreamed up at recess.

He's so damn unaware that when I provided a site on immigration to Israel he couldn't even figure out what it was.

He appears to be a typical left coast CA clown who thinks he's some kind of Middle East expert who in fact has never been out of smogland.

A passport would probably be as foreign to him as hieroglyphics are to most of us. He probably thinks that Colorado is a foreign nation.

Humor him...it's fun.

No 'fray,' 2spot...
I don't beat-up on drunken wimps. I usually lay off of pedophiles, too, and little old ladies.
(I know there's a fit in there somewhere for you. Take your pick.)

tom
Could never suffer fools, gladly or otherwise.

Buchanan shows that...
Isolationism is still alive and well in America. If we could just get the rest of the world to leave us alone, all would be right.

2spotwutever
Y'got keedz, bro? D'ja keep'em in da cage wid'ja? Which zoo y'at, L.A. o' San Dieger? So I can come by an shoot y'all banannerz tru de cage bars wid my sling.

You can't have kids. You spend far too much time banging away here and what, a blog, you say? for someone with kids. Also, a creature as filled with hatred and rage as you can't possibly stand kids anywhere near them. Kids are hope, kids are love, and you clearly have none of those things.

Also, you are unfunny, sad and pathetic. Get off the keyboard and put your streightjacket back on, they're coming to get you.


Bush???
Have Bush ever understood that he was the president of the most powerful nation on earth?

Just looking at his face, it makes me wonder who is this guy.

History will show...
that although it took eight years, the singular, sinister, spectacular and precise attack launched by Osama Bin Laden against the United States of America on September 11th, 2001 finally brought the greatest power on the planet to its knees.

The attack itself lasted just moments -- carried out in broad daylight by 19 men flying four commercial airliners into three buildings and a farm. As a result, two buildings collapsed, one was damaged and 3000 Americans died.

Osama Bin Laden, knowing he could never defeat his hated enemy militarily, instead conceived a plan so brilliant in its efficiency that, in the annals of modern folklore, only the little missile flying down the chute of the Death Star in Star Wars rivaled its astounding effectiveness.

His strategy was simple. Know the weakness of your enemy, strike but once – then sit back and wait as your enemy destroys itself.

It worked because his enemy was America lead by President George W. Bush.

In the immediate aftermath of 9/11, the knee-jerk reactions and panicked "Fight Everyone" decisions the Terrorist seduced out of our President turned an attack that tactically amounted to nothing but a paper-cut on the finger of a giant into a killing infection that has now rendered America helpless, confused and dying.

Yes, we have no choice but to admit, Osama Bin Laden played George Bush like a fiddle.

Keep that in mind whenever you wonder why every true American patriot should despise George Bush. And also keep that in mind when you get that ansty little feeling in your Texas panties that you’d just as soon see this country DIE than succeed under the leadership of our new President, Barack Obama.

George Bush and his cadre of criminals called Rove, Rumsfeld, Cheney and Wolfowitz belong in prison for treason. Ann Coulter, Rush Limbaugh and just about any other war-mongering Bush-loving Dupe that propagated his administration and its doomed policies belong in the cell right next to them.

Buster and PB - right on!
Buster said it all about free trade economics, and PB got it right on Bush. As some of these posts reveal, Bush Derangement Syndrome is a raging, virulent infection (fostered by ignorance and misunderstanding)!

Response to William
Please let me know what injustice you have suffered or what civil rights of your's that have been violated.

"Burden? What burden?"
Today in his final press conference President Bush said, "I believe that the 'burden of this office' is greatly overstated". In other words, he is saying that the Presidency is no big deal. I remember also that shortly after the November 4 election, Obama was shown on TV walking out of a meeting and getting into a car and he was carrying a huge fat briefcase. Suddenly it occurred to me that in eight years I never once saw President Bush with a briefcase.

Hey Pat

Look at your new friends.

Mousemuse and Left Coast William. Two left-wing loons. Just like your Bush-hating pals at MSNBC. You're right at home with the left, Pat. I caught your tired act on MSNBC a few days ago. I see you're very happy with Obama. Figures.

Now if you could just get your far left buds interested in Nazi Germany. Maybe you could get a book deal out of it!? "The Left And Nazi Germany" by Pat Buchanan. Hey. Sounds more sane than your last book.

Hey Pat

Did you recite the "Creed of the Left" today?

I bet you did. Now, how does it go? Something like this?

"I (fill in your name) promise to hate President Bush forever. I also promise to blame him for everything bad in the world forever. But I promise to love President Obama. I know whatever he does is wonderful and good. I also promise never to blame President Obama for anything."

Yep. That's the "Creed of the Left".


Agree with Buchanan
Sobering analysis.

Bush is a man filled with good intentions who has convinced himself that history will vindicate his policies.

I never believed the Left's argument that Iraq was about oil. That argument is nonsense.

Rather, it was a breathtakingly radical and utopian experiment to foist democratic governance upon the Muslim world, with Iraq being the beacon for others in the region to emulate.

But rather than making the region more stable, it has become even less so. Hamas/Israeli warfare is worse than in decades; Pakistan teetering on the brink of radicalism; Afghanistan descending into a narco-state; Turkey, one of the few socalled Muslim democracies, has gone from viewing the U.S. favorably when Clinton was president, to now being vehemently anti-U.S. after 8 years of Bush(and I am not a Clinton fan..Kosovo was a huge blunder).

Even in socalled "democratic" Iraq, Bush was forced to reject Israeli requests to permit its airforce to fly over Iraq in a proposed attack on Iran's nuclear facility.

Iraq won't even permit its airspace to be used by an American ally to attack an installation of a regime Bush has deemed an axis of evil.

When Bush came to office the national debt was around 5-6 trillion dollars. Now it is 11-12 trillion.

In 8 short years, he has doubled what it took the more than 40 previous presidents to accumulate in 200+ years.

His spinmasters can weave what they will.

But you can't make a silk purse from a sow's ear.




Excellent article Pat
Bush made this silly statement during the press conference: why did the financial crisis have to happen on my watch?" . You sly clown, because of the policies that your administration pursued ! Idiot, Gen. Brent Scowcroft wrote the national intelligence estimate and predicted just what would happen if you invaded Iraq. I hope conservatives turn their back on Bush . Let him count on the neocons for financial support ! After all, he was their usefull idiot !

Hey Pat,
Bush may not reflect all the shades of nuance and finesse that you seem to hold so much in awe, but he does reflect the basic good of human kind. He knows evil when he sees it, he knows justice, and he sees the world in a realistic, NOT in a Utopian way as you suggest.

Bush understands completely what the motives of evil people are. You are the one who doesn't seem to comprehend that there are people out there who could care less about you, or I, or our children. They want all of us dead! You are the Utopian who seems to think that there is some common ground where we can negotiate with these sociopathic killers.

Bush did the best with what he was given. I do not know how he remained so upbeat and positive through 8 years of character assasination and backstabbing from our own media and government employees. His administration has had a Hurculean task of overcoming ignorance and stubborn resistance on all sides. Talk about suffering the slings and arrows...this man endured all that and more without a wimper. Pat, I think if you had to put up with a fraction of the derision and haranging he has, you would be curled up in the fetal position sucking your thumb by now.

Oval Office Nightmare
George Bush acted like a compassionate conservative rather than a true leader. Emotional reasoning sabotaged many of his actions. He should have reined in Congress with many vetoes and used the bully pulpit to really lead.

The nonsense that America could really build a democracy in the midst of 13th Century fanatical Islamic countries really sank his Administration. The same misplaced "compassion" for illegal Mexican immigrants destroyed a lot of goodwill Americans had for him after 9/11.

Obama obviously will be plagued by similar myths and illusions, for example, that throwing money at problems or talking endlessly to people who only want to destroy you will result in peace and prosperity.

The universe is implacable and those who refuse to see it as it really is and deal with it on its terms will bring ruin and death on themselves and those who follow them. The Messiah is in for one hell of an awakening from "Dreams of My Father."


Bush vs. Obama
Pat ends his message with God Bless America. I feel God is fed up with America for having tossed him away.

Bush is nothing but an old rha-rha college kid who never grew up on his own. Obama is nothing but an old college kid charma who has never grown up or accomplished a damn thing.

How can Americans be so foolish to elect these grown up full of themselves kids?????

Mr. Buchanan -- You truly are a FOOL
You have a right to your idiotic opinions, but sometimes you just need to keep them to yourself.

Find another line of work. You are a failure so far.

BUSHES AND McCAIN, NINCOMBOOBS SUPREME
Pat, your column this week is a classic to be remembered for many years.

I am a strong Texas conservative. I have been telling my blind-as-moles Republican friends that Bush was a weak minded fool of no character even before he was first elected as president...but until recently, all to no avail.

I have known many men and women like Bush over the years. They are superficial in their understanding of all things because they refuse to think analytically, if at all. And they stubbornly refuse to rethink anything even when they are clearly proven to be wrong. Bush betrayed conservatives in many more ways than in his free trade policy, immigration lunacy and the foolish war. I have a long list of Bush betrayals that few people know about and that should earn him the strong disapprobation of conservatives forever.

If Republicans do not stop letting the Democrats and the MSM choose our candidates, i.e., people like the Bushes and McCain, then the Democrats will reign over this country as socialist dictators for many generations to come.

We conservatives need to seek out and THOROUGHLY TRAIN highly intelligent, well educated, wise, charismatic Christian men of sterling character to enter the political arena and fight for the right with enormous competence and energy. Absent that, there is no realistic hope of a change for the better for our nation, only a long line of hopeless nincomboobs like John McCain and the Bushes to embarrass and disgrace us far beyond all possibility of description.

Too bad for GW that the buck stops here.
Despite the failure of Congress to address the issue of temporary workers, which are prevented by law from coming in to the country legally, he has stood firm in his request for a worker program... So illegal imigration from Mexico is his fault?

How long has this been brewing? For generations we have depended on the migrant work force. Control could be exerted by a single change to law and a robust build up of border management and administrative manpower.

Where is Congress on this? Out to lunch.

Pat, you should know better.


Warsaw Ghetto
Pat, history is repeating itself. The first occurance in the Warsaw Ghetto was Jews killing any Jewish collaborators, esp. Jewish police. Then, all they had were small arms to fight against tanks, machine guns, bazooka's and flame throwers. The Nazi's then destoyed buildings because they were so bobby trapped they couldn't send in ground troops. 13,000 Jewish resistance fighters killed, 16 German soldiers.
Apparently Israel learned the lesson well on how to attack Gaza from the Germans.

We all have our blind spots.
Mr Buchanan,
President Bush may very well be an unreflective man but you are undoubtedly an ANTI-SEMITE.Your rantings against Israel have the same deranged lack of insight and common sense as the rantings of those afflicted by Bush derangement syndrome.

For you , all thinking ceases when the topic turns to Israel and the same applies to BDS sufferers.

Bush is only one man among many fallible men and Israel is only a tiny island of democracy surrounded by a sea of tyranny and ignorance but each of them draws a level of hatred completely out of proportion to their actions.Reason cannot be applied to either of these subjects because raw hatred overrides every other consideration.

As soon as I hear the talking points start I know that I am dealing with BDS or anti-Semitism and I stop reading /listening/etc.

Don J and Jeff
You are so damned right because of BDS and the pmm (Propaganda Media Machine) we have a disaster. Leftist libs running the country with their mindless drones, indoctrinationists and Goebbels media.

Jeff,

Outstanding analysis. I also have a lib rant turn off button.

DJ, Its a good thing Sarah's family
got a lot of air time or you wouldn't have any airhead material for your lib dimwit buddies. Triglodyte? Pl-e-e-z-e. And for the most part all your lib soothsayers have blamed Bush for tricking them into problems. The latest just this weekend from Dodd, another con artist for you brainless dweebs.

Meaning: Not stupid, moron.

The American citizen
The American citizen caused the demise of industrial base within the U.S.A, not the President, and not the Congress. To restrict trade and impose embargos against international products is to deny the American citizen the freedom to choose which product is best for them. Clearly, by not buying Made in USA, the American citizen made the choice. So stop attacking the President and the Congress.

Patrick Buchanan, did you ever buy a product that wasn’t Made in USA. If you did, then you are as guilty as the rest of the population. Take a look in a mirror, blame yourself, would be the appropriate thing to do. It is just so easy to put the blame were it shouldn’t be.

Even the illegal alien issue falls on the American citizen. Each and every citizen has a responsibility to abide by the laws and to report those that break the laws to civil authority. Clearly, the majority of citizens choose to ignore the problem, so don’t blame the President, or the Congress.

The failure of the Congress to pass the comprehensive immigration reform was not the fault of the Republicans in Congress, it was the outcry from a huge sector of the population.

The evidence is pretty clear that Hamas initiated the rocket attacks on Israel; the people of Gaza elected Hamas, therefore, there are no innocent civilians in Gaza. Each and every adult in Gaza is as guilty of initiating the attack on Israel as are the members of Hamas. Israel has the right to continue the attack until there is unconditional surrender by the government of Gaza. Even in Gaza, the citizen supposedly made the choice; they then must live/die with the results.

20-20 Hindsight
It always amazes me! The 'reporters' who have such clarity of vision in the rear view mirror. I'm not picking on anyone, we all have opinions. It just seems to me that I'm so glad I didn't have to be at the 'tiller' for the last eight years. "Damned if ya do, damned if ya don't." Everyone's an expert. I can't imagine what kind of 'know it all' would want to be President? With all the self serving agendas out here, just getting elected Pres. is inviting rape. These fellows and ladies who would be "King or Queen" must be nuts! The whole Palestinian thing seems easy to view. Another group, paid to do the work towards another group's agenda, got their butts kicked again. Do we really think Hamas gives a rat's tailend for the Palestinians? Does Hezbolah care for Lebannon? Nope, and nope! If the Arab dumb-butts in the middle east spent as much of Iran's money and the(Arab)protester's energy on creating some semblance of prosperity, Then I would have some sympathy for their postion. They cry for "Killing the Great Satan!" and wiping Israel off the map, and oh how we cry and wring our hands! I bet that if they started lobbing rockets into Detroit, from Windsor, Ontario, our response might be considered 'disproportional.' What are the Jews expected to do? Hell, I don't know, perhaps invite Hamas and Hezbolah to lunch and a little chat. I wish sometimes, that the Jews in Israel would just kick the crap out of the Arabs and Persians and get it over with. JD
Asheboro, NC

Hey, DJ
How does it feel to keep electing empty suits into powerful positions? Brawn, Durbin, Oblaba, Blago

And you're trying to tell us we're the dummies. That's rich.

cramerjl
Mr. Patrick Buchanan has an audience at MSNBC that listens to and seemingly enjoys his diatribe, this after many failures, three of which were unsuccessful (Thankfully) run's for President. Mr. Buchanan should just go away, quit muddying the water within the Conservative community.

Jack Cramer

DJ, I think BJ is way out front
Heck he spent two years getting blown in the office and another year and a half lying about it. A year demonizing Gingrich to get a second term and eight years failing to retaliate against multiple attacks and lobbing Tomahawks at aspirin factories and taking credit for a Y2K scam that created a dot.com bubble that burst before we could run his a&s off.

Nah, I think a lover boy moniker
and pseudo intellectual, libtroll droning is priceless.

Tom (#10)....just dumb
Tom said: “Yesm Hamas is wrong (and stupid) to fire those rockets into Israel. But the fact of the matter is that Israel has more traffic deaths in a single month than those Hamas rockets have killed in 8 years.”

Interesting logic. The U.S. has more traffic deaths in a month than people killed on 9-11. Do you think we should have shrugged that off? If your son/daughter/wife is murdered will you shrug that off since someone else probably died in a car accident around the same time? To call you dumb is to be too kind.

Isreal has shown restraint against Hamas for years and years and look where it got them. If Hamas wants to insist on the destruction of Isreal as its mission statement and send off rockets any time it pleases then Isreal is justified in its mission to take them out for good. The Palestinians who voted in Hamas and who allow the terrorists to hide among them must accept responsibility for what happens to their children as a result.

Unlike Hamas, the thugs responsible for Mumbai were not part and parcel of the Pakistani government, so you’re comparing apples to oranges.

Tom: “It defies both logic and common sense and it will neither solve the problem nor help Israel in the long run. Such actions seldom do.”

What defies logic is people who continually beg Isreal to show restraint when such restraint has not deterred Hamas in the least.

no question
President Bush walked into a recession (I saw that as#hole Keithy O last night parsing it with his assertion it did not hit until Mar 2001 - poppycock - the fact is the tech bubble had burst sending the economy into a downward spiral on CLinton's watch)and a scant 8 months later had 9/11 - another blow to an already contracting economy. The Bush tax cuts pulled us out. 52 months of expansion. No one remembers.

The biased media pounded on this guy, over and over and over. They still are - they won't let it go. Yet he stuck to his guns in Iraq and has gained a solid measure of success there. Forget the wys and wherefores - it is too late for that. Bottom line, a Stalinist dictator is gone and hope is now present in Iraq.

God Bless Mr. President. Forget the liberal second-guessers. They are truly the ones who will be spending all their time saying things they know are not so the next four years. It's all they have ever done. You can leave knowing you said and did what you thought was right.




Don Juan
Wow !
Were you born retarded or was it our bankrupt education system that did it to you ?

Ignore
Don Jaun - he is just a tro// from the kos.

2spothipshot . . .
YOU have a problem. It seems that you take umbrage to ANY criticism of Israel. You are using the same tactic as blacks when you fail to prevail in an argument. Just as blacks call someone "racist" when they cannot prove their point, Jews have a habit of calling people "anti-semitic" when their motives (or arguments) are questioned. It is a FACT that there is much more political variation and discussion in Israel than there is among the Jewish people here. There are many political parties in Israel with extremely different viewpoints. Only ONE political faction seems to have any "pull" (and MSM publicity) in the US and that is of the hardcore Zionist. Before you call me an "anti-semitic hater, if I had to live in the middle east, Israel would be my country of choice.
Remember the USS Liberty.

2spothipshot . . .
YOU have a problem. It seems that you take umbrage to ANY criticism of Israel. You are using the same tactic as blacks when you fail to prevail in an argument. Just as blacks call someone "racist" when they cannot prove their point, Jews have a habit of calling people "anti-semitic" when their motives (or arguments) are questioned. It is a FACT that there is much more political variation and discussion in Israel than there is among the Jewish people here. There are many political parties in Israel with extremely different viewpoints. Only ONE political faction seems to have any "pull" (and MSM publicity) in the US and that is of the hardcore Zionist. Before you call me an "anti-semitic hater, if I had to live in the middle east, Israel would be my country of choice.
Remember the USS Liberty.

Buchanan the historian
"The war Wilson led us into "to make the world safe for democracy" gave us Vladimir Lenin, Joseph Stalin and 70 years of the most barbaric empire in all history."

So Wilson planted the seed that germinated communism? Gee, thanks, Pat! I never knew that.

History as revealed by Buchanan is a marvelous illusion, methinks. It's a lumpy blend of 60% truth and 40% unmitigated bull***t.

The problem is that the American people
keep electing people to represent them and those people keep dragging America ever closer to the cliff. By my estimate America is poised on the edge of the cliff and will not need much of a push.

We the People have enjoyed the fruits of what our Founding Fathers built even though the fruit has shrunk from watermelon sized to the size of a cherry. Still the fruit was good but the pit is all that we are left with. Too bad so many Americans were so invested in their own self advancement that they failed to notice that we were being lead over a cliff. Everyone had better hang on tight because when we go over it will be a rough ride.

Patrick, you are way off base...
as usual, you don't have a clue about government role in America and always blame the problems of Middle America on the President (whoever he might be).
Business are started, some suceed, others fail...that is the brass tacks of it and that is capitalism.


No, a man who loved the American people
Everyone knows why President Bush did this and where President Bush went wrong. No one has said it would have been better if President Bush just looked the other way after we were attacked on 9/11. No one has said our economy was ruined so bad because of 9/11, that we never returned to the life we knew. The fact is the people lived their daily lives without knowing there was a war other then hearing it from the critics of the war in Iraq. Other then the families of the troops who suffered, no one on American soil was attacked after 9/11. The critics of President Bush can come out with all of their little petty gripes they want, because they had the safety and the security to do it. Had it not been so. The critics wouldn't have been talking about illegal immigrants and free trade. Instead they would have been busy buying gas mask, watching for car bombs in the streets, and wondering if today was a good day to go to the malls without being killed by a suicide bomber or explosives. Watching TV and the news would have been totally different. Check points in the streets would have been a normal thing to see. Neighborhoods would have put up more security then we see now. Everyone would suspect everyone out of fear of not knowing who is a suicide bomber and who isn't. No one would be living the comfortable we know today. When hurricane Ike and Katrina came through, it change the lives of the American people more then the war in Iraq did. Think what life would be life if we saw this type of destruction on a daily bases caused by terrorist. Would there still be talk about illegal immigrants and free trade as criticisms of President Bush.

Hey Gunny
Well said. Post at 7:02 a.m. EST

Can you imagine these left-wing Don Juan types if the country takes another hit?

What do you think? Think they'll blame President Bush? I'll give you odds they will! Heck, the hate-Bush fanatics would blame Bush if their favorite football team didn't win. They'd blame him if their T.V. went on the blink or if their garbage wasn't picked-up.

Of course, you can bet there's one person they'll never blame. I take that back. They might blame Obama for one thing. Obama has, so far, not moved at a fast pace to the far left. Awww. What a shame. If he doesn't hurry up
Don Juan, Left Coast William and Mousemuse will get into a tizzy.

Nice guy, thoroughly misled ....
and I'm talking about Pat!

Mr. Buchanan not only opposes the wisdom of Thomas Sowell when he opposes free trade policy, but of most professional economists. Not sure whence he gets so much knowledge.

I'm sure Pat is right that Pres. Bush went too far with his doctrine of democracy at all costs. But he should remember the alternatives that Bush faced at the moment of going to war with Iraq.

The fact that Hitler used anti-Versailles resentment to get Germany back on a war footing does not mean that Wilson was wrong to send US troops to Europe in 1916. Who could countenance the continued bloody stalemate in Europe.

I think that the invasion of Iraq was a mistake, but it was a reasonable decision in its context, and I think history will be more generous with this President than Mr Buchanan.


2spothipshot . . .
YOU have a problem. It seems that you take umbrage to ANY criticism of Israel. You are using the same tactic as blacks when you fail to prevail in an argument. Just as blacks call someone "racist" when they cannot prove their point, Jews have a habit of calling people "anti-semitic" when their motives (or arguments) are questioned. It is a FACT that there is much more political variation and discussion in Israel than there is among the Jewish people here. There are many political parties in Israel with extremely different viewpoints. Only ONE political faction seems to have any "pull" (and MSM publicity) in the US and that is of the hardcore Zionist. Before you call me an "anti-semitic hater, if I had to live in the middle east, Israel would be my country of choice.
Remember the USS Liberty.

Job Losses
America has lost manufacturing jobs in great numbers because of it's increasingly hostile business environment. Excessive regulations, (mostly frivolous ones meant to further multiple bureaucracies' interests and as a means of justifying and even growing bloated bureaucracies)excessive taxes, ever higher and increasing costs of compliance with a truly banana republic tax code and, most of all, the excessive costs of protection from frivolous lawsuits.

I know. Because of the above, we moved our farming operations to Brazil in 2004 and are very happy with our timely decision.n Today we provide 1300 full time jobs and over 3000 jobs at harvest time. We sell to over 27 countries and are prosperous beyond anything we could have dreamed of stateside.
We get no subsidies (yet government doesn't meddle in every aspect of our business)and don't need them. We pay taxes instead!

Pat Buchanan vs Thomas Sowell
Dear Pat:

You, Thomas Sowell, and I are all Republicans, as is George Bush, yet how little we all agree (except that Eisenhower was and still is my favorite president of my lifetime).

I read Sowell's piece entitled, "Pretty Talk and Ugly Realities" before reading yours this morning. I can only say that I find what he had to say more realistic than what you said.

You come across as one bitter because the electorate chose Bush rather than you, even though you weren't in the same presidential races.

You also come across as somewhat anti-semetic.


Protectionism
The reason we are loosing manufactoring jobs is because unions want more than their European counterparts, and our corporate taxes are too high. We can not compete with those two issues unresolved.

We can compete globally if those two things happen first. I am tired of you claiming to be a republican when you sound more like Roosevelt (FDR).

Don Juan
Aren't you forgetting the two dreadful alternatives the Democrats offered us?

Did the country really have much of a choice?

The problem is much deeper than just one man.

Get over your BDS.

FREE TRADE NONSENSE

.....The reason Industry moves its operation overseas is because Democrats have created a hostile business environment in this country ...

.....With politicians using big business as whipping boys for all social ills and and treating them as prey to be raped instead of as sources of wealth and jobs ...is it any wonder business looks overseas? ...

.....The answer is simple ...make the USA more business friendly by ending the charade of Corporate taxes and having a National Right to work Law ...or better yet, repealing FDR's Wagner Act to defang the power of the unions over business ..

.....Is any of this going to happen? ...need I ask? .....COLOSSUS

Hilarity, Dj, sheer hilarity
"...Obama is not an empty suit."

Ah contrare, one just has to look at the multiple positions and constant moving on Blago and shadow rhetoric about jobs to see the true emptiness. His true beliefs, like unwanted babies should die and government largesse will raise all boats, ...from the country sinking like a rock.

QUESTIONS FOR PRESIDENT BUSH
.....PRESIDENT BUSH ...

.....Why did you take the abuse from a hostile press without fighting back? ...Did you think that you were above the fray? ...

.....Why did you try to govern as a "compassionate conservative"? ...Didn't you know that compassion by Government is coersion by another name? ...

.....Why did you betray the Conservative tenet of fiscal responsibility with your out of control spending? ...FDR used his veto pen more than you did and he had big Democrat majorities ...

.....Why did you get our ground troops bogged down in Iraq when it was not necessary to do so? ...Did you really believe that Islam was a religion of peace? ...

.....SUMMATION: What you have done is to build a launching pad for Obama and the Democrats to turn this Country toward Socialism ...just as Hoover greased the skids for FDR ...in this respect you have squandered your oppertunity to cement and advance the Conservative cause into the next millenium ...your legacy will be the same as Herbert Hoover and if Iraq goes into the tank ...you will be less successful as a wartime President than FDR ...

.....I voted for you but you drove me out of the Republican Party ...I feel betrayed .....COLOSSUS

An Unreflective Man
George W Bush was not a perfect president. He was, however, a great president at facing the single most pressing issue of his two terms in office. He kept the USA safe from terrorist attack for seven years.

Reflect on that, Mr. Buchanan.

Kerry Pratt
Anthem, AZ

According to the author
a unreflective president is one who doesn't agree with him.

Bucs bad grasp of history
Just how does Buc make this stuff up?

he absurdly claims, "The war Wilson led us into "to make the world safe for democracy" gave us Vladimir Lenin, Joseph Stalin and 70 years of the most barbaric empire in all history"

President Wilson was re-elected President running on his Keeping us OUT of WW 1. This was AFTER over 100 Americans were killed by the Germans on the Lusitania.

Then the czar abducated his throne in MARCH 1917 paving the way for the Communist takeover and the US declared war on Germany in APRIL 1917.

The US declaration of war was only after Germany continued to sink US merchant ships and the US intercepted a telegraph from Germany to Mexico to get the Mexicans to fight against us. (By the way Pres Jefferson also sent US forces overseas to fight against countries attacking US merchant ships).

Then in addition to the fact that Lenin was well underway in his takeover prior to the US entry in the war, Pres Wilson sent US troops to Russia to fight AGAINST the Communists.

Now rather then say Pres Wilson's entry in the war allowed the Lenin takeover in Russia a stronger case could be made that if the US had entered SOONER, and ended the War sooner the US could have taken pressure off of Russia and the Czar could have retained power and defeated the communist. That however is supposition.

The FACT is that President Wilson entering WW 1, years after the war had started, did NOT give us Vladimir Lenin, Joseph Stalin and 70 years of the most barbaric empire in all history.

and ol Buc just is not giving the straight facts in his zeal to stick his isolationist ostritch head in the sand.

Tinsldr2@yahoo.com

Hey Buchanan
Have you read Egon's post?

You also need (desperately) to read the posts by baseballdoc, Theodore, Mary, and others who cite unions, taxes, over-regulation, and rampant civil lawsuits as the causes of US manufacturing jobs going overseas.

You act as though protectionism will solve this problem, but all it does is give unions the leverage they need to make ever more unreasonable demands, and domestic manufacturers more room for price-gouging and incompetence.

No matter what level of protectionism the gov't provides the unions will rise to it and eventually exceed it. And domestic manufacturers will provide even less while charging more.

You might also try reading a little history. WWI was resolved by negotiation rather than victory. It left both the winners and losers resentful and mistrustful of one another. As a result the western world in general embarked on more than a decade of embargos and other restrictions on foreign trade, aka "protectionism".

The result of this marvelous policy of international protectionism was the Great Depression.

The result of the Great Depression was WWII.

Go back to the drawing board Pat. The American people don't want your pseudo-conservatism. We know better. That's why you never got more than 1 or 2% when you ran for Prez.

You're a legend in your own mind.

CW
You seem to be forgetting or ignorinbg who caused most of the underlying conditions that caused the current mess not only in Gaza but in all of the areas where Israel has basically created ghettos.

Pretending that taking out the Hamas radicals or any of the nut cases on the Pal side will cure the problem when millions of people are basically (and sometimes actually as on the West Bank) is pure and unadultered folly.

Israel is simply reaping what they have so violently sown over the past 50 years. And sadly, my country, the United States of America must bear some of the responsibility for this mess because of our almost unquestioning and total support of anything that Isreal has done.

baseballdoc
The only conservatives around are in the Republican Party. Bush will no longer be an active member. The true movers of the last eight years as far as fiscal responsibility is concerned is the leadership, Lott and Hastert, that let this get away. Bush only signed what they let in front of him thinking he was reaching out.

He should have moved Petraeus and the Surge prior to Rumsfeld leaving and prior to the 2006 elections to stymie the dims on the war. At the same time he was pushing the overseers of Fannie and Freddie but didn't corner the dims on their support of a failing and criminal exercise.

Since then it has been up to Boehner and other than the summer recess oil debates has been relatively quieted.

Our only chance is to support the conservatives in office with an agenda of drilling, nuclear (to grab McCain/Graham by the collar and shake some sense in them), no shamnesty and no new taxes (letting the cuts expire). We announce we will support BO the same as the dims supported Bush. No more and no less. And start the campaign early just like BO. For 2010 we should focus on all the negatives we knew going in and the many that will appear shortly. You couldn't blow Pelosi out of her libnut SF office with a nuclear device but Reid looks very vulnerable. Unless I'm fooled by NV fools like PA nuts for Murtha proved. Go Ravens, they deserve to lose for putting that clown back in office.

What has Pat done?
Let's see, Pat Buchanan has criticized everyone who disagrees with him both on the left and the right and little else. President Bush has managed a business (baseball team), been governor and now the US President for 8 tough years. Pat feels that George W could be more introspective (meaning 'think like me') about his years in office. Yeah, right! Let's just build a mile high fence around the US borders and close off our harbors and let the rest of the world suffer! Brilliant!!! Seems the Chinese tried that already.

Gunny said of President Bush
"He knows evil when he sees it, he knows justice, and he sees the world in a realistic terms."

Yeah right. Just about as well as he what he saw when he saw Putin's soul when he noticed it behind Putin's eyes. How did that work out?

Or how he had that vision of how "freedom and democracy" was going to be the savior of the Middle East. Then they had elections in Palestine and Hamas won. OOPS.

Or how getting rid of Saddam would in short order cure the region's problems. That little bit of how Bush "see's the world" is at this moment still costing us about $330,000,000.00 per day SIX YEARS later.

"Reality" seems to be a scarce commodity to both you and President Bush.

Buchanan's Problem
Pat has never been a fan of President Bush,so I doubt he would give him rave reviews no matter what he had done.

President Bush has caused me pain in several ways. Open borders is at the top of my complaints. It is inexcusable for a leader to put the wellbeing of illegal aliens before those of his own citizens.

Still,he is a decent man with a good heart and has done a good job considering the pitfalls he has encountered. No president since I can remember has had such pitfalls.

Yet,I know of no president who has had such vile,hateful vitriol from the left for seven years. He has been hated with a passion since he won his election the first time. They never accepted it and to this day,say it was stolen.

Even with all the venom spewed at him daily,I have never seen or heard him return hate for hate. He just does not do it. He has not stood up for himself or for his party. The party is suffering because he did not.

I hope he can live in peace when he leaves and that he will be judged fairly in the years to come.

I also hope he will pardon Libby and the border patrol guys before he goes.

Thgeodore and baseballdoc
No doubt you are both correct about how unions and the ever evel Dems are the reason businesses move their operations to mostly third world foreign nations.

Surely the fact that the wages in those nations are often $0.20 or $0.30 cents per hour can't have anything to do with it. Right?

All that our workers need to do is increase their productivity about 1000% and the playing field will again be all neat and level. Right?

INDY TX

.....I will always vote for a Conservative ...I just wish there were more of them in the Republican Party ...I will also be rooting for the Ravgens and the Cardinals but the odds will be long .....COLOSSUS

An Unreflective Ultimately Deluded Man
The President goes out of office secure in the delusion that his legacy will be "He Made American Safe -- No Terrorist Attacks for the Past Seven Years and Four Months."

He does not seem to realize that al Qaeda never intended to mount a second attack. Our internal security defenses, our intelligence agencies had little to do with it. God bless everybody for all the hard work that they did. We are now in a much better position to thwart such an attack, but it is no certain thing.

His legacy is that he picked his subordinates badly and he did not stand guard over America's human and financial resources.

Modmark NY
You can thank trial lawyers mainly for our reasons to move our business. Had we stayed stateside we'd be bankrupt, just like most of America.
You retarded liberals have no clue about actions and consequences.

You want cheap healthcare ? Let the Doctors practice MEDICAL MEDICINE instead of forcing them to practice LEGAL MEDICINE.

You want jobs in America ? Start with tort reform, regulatory reforms (the cost of compliance with our really third world regulations is unbearable, even with subsidies) a tax code reform, just get government off the back of productive people!
For your information, the cost of labor has nothing to do with our move, at least it's nothing more than an added bonus. It's government interference that has grown beyond any hope of keeping jobs here anymore.
We were contemplating to close our operations over here before we decided to move.

PS - I live in Northeast Brazil and love it!

TOM WI

.....We live in a world economy and must compete ...we cannot become fortress America and survive ...

.....If you wanted to buy a pair of shoes and had a choice between a pair made in Taiwan for $50 and a pair made in the USA for $100 and they were of equal quality ...would you pay $100 ...I don't think so ...

.....So your solution would be to put a $50 tariff on the shoes made in Taiwan so that the American consumer would be forced to pay $100? ...How many American shoes could America export to Taiwan? ...if you said zero you are correct ...

.....If Taiwan can produce products at lower costs ...then that is the challenge that America must solve and the solution is not tariffs, protectionism, higher corporate taxes or trade unions that run companies to the brink of bankruptcy ....have you researched the reason for the decline of industry in the Rust Belt? .....COLOSSUS

baseballdoc
I campaigned for Bush in 2000.

Even voted for him in 2004, altho I had begun to have misgivings then.

But, Kerry scared me at the time.

Bush has never been a conservative.

That would not have been so bad, his not being a true conservative, but when he seized upon extremist arrogance in asserting the United States had some historic obligation to alter the political and social makeup of Islamic nations, to democratize them, I finally repudiated him lock, stock and barrel.

Knowing what I know now, I would never have voted for Bush.

He has severely damaged the Republican party...his infantile fascination with a disastrous neocon foreign policy coupled with his penchant to outspend the democrats on domestic policy.

With Bush, we got the worst on both domestic and foreign policy.

Pat Calling Kettle Black
Patsy is the ultimate unreflective, ahem, man.
Pat needs to understand that being closeted is no way to live. It creates a nasty, sour, angry person.

iraq
the bush administration was going to use any excuse they could to invade iraq.first it was wmd's,then saddam was a tyrant,then spreading democracy blah blah blah.we went in to secure the vast iraqi oil fields for the american oil companies.its as simple as that.why do you think cheney wouldn't release what was talked about at his energy task force meeting.we still don't know even now who was there.what possible reason could there be for not releasing who attended the meeting?

Pat - too much credit to the Presidency

Me thinks Pat Buchanon gives too much power to the Presidency.

Presidents don't write the laws that chase manufacturing jobs overseas.

Presidents don't write immigration laws.

All presidents can do is recommend, recommend, recommend and lobby congress for change.

You want more manufacturing jobs? Change the Congress.

You want immigration reform? Change the Congress.

You want less military involvment overseas?

Change the Congress.

Bush
The legacy of Bush will be fiercely defended by a small minority, but the rest will likely conclude that on issues of small government and spending, balancing trade with an industrial policy, immigration, the execution of the Iraq War, and the leadership he failed to provide to the Party of which he is the leader, his administration was not successful.

He came into office with a party that controlled the house, and within two years, controlled the Senate. But now it is mired in confusion over purpose and vision, lost ground in two consecutive elections, and has regressed back to the 70's.

It was one thing to invade Iraq, quite another to sit around for 3 years with a failed strategy that ignored the countries security - and neither see it nor react to it. It is one thing to be empathetic to immigrants, but quite another to ignore the fact that such empathy would by definition change the very basis of this country. It is one thing to have empathy for people, quite another to decide that the central government, not the people themselves, should be responsible. It is one thing to talk about free trade, quite another to consider whether or not its blind pursuit could lead to a country that would eventually be no longer capable of manufacturing what it required for its own survival, let alone the weapons required for its security. And, it is one thing to advocate security, quite another to do little or nothing to provide it by making no effort to secure our borders against terrorists.

And in the end, the GOP, his party - has paid the price. And so, he will leave.

But, he will remain defiant. His beliefs are his - but he has never demonstrated the depth necessary to temper them.

In the end, I long ago concluded that he didn't actually like his parties base, nor have any affinity for it. My way or the highway might work in the old Westerns, but as we have seen, it doesn't work in the real world. Not any more.




Economic Theory Happening Now
The current economic crisis caused to a great extent by the American consumer slamming their collective purses shut illustrates the true elasticity of consumer spending. Although the credit crunch and the correction of those swollen housing prices initiated the debacle, the consumer "strike" is worsening it.

The current situation bolsters the arguement for free trade and destroys Pat's protectionist bent. If high wages, high taxes and anti-free market regulation drive up producers prices, the consumer in a free market will decide the winners and losers. People are going to lose their jobs in either case; either from plant closings due to low sales or plant closings to move production to lower cost manufacturing sites. Supply and Demand is indeed a LAW, not just a theory. The Means of Production chasing the lowest possible cost structure is a LAW, not just a theory. The destructive aspect of Protectionism is a LAW, not just a theory. The economic uneducated need to understand that DIRECT MANUFACTURING LABOR costs are only a single component of product costs and typically one of the lower percentages (direct labor hours on an automotive final assemlby line are about 7 hours per vehicle). Indeed, it is not current direct labor costs destroying GM, it's those obscene and inflexible legacy retiree costs. The UAW will destroy GM and those members currently employed to protect those retirees.

The long and complex supply chain of imported products provide many medium and high wage employment opportunites which greatly overshadow those low direct manufacturing labor wages involved. Pat, y'all need to learn some economics and manufacturing cost analysis!


goodbye bush
The man may have meant well, but he did wrong. He had no regard for the Constitution and instead imposed his own ideals on the Office of the President, and in so doing helped oversee the decline of the Republican Party. May we see no more Bushes(types) ever again. We need a Reagan but meaner, and nastier. If anyone has seen Thomas Jefferson around please let me know.

Free trade and fair trade
Disclaimer: I am in favor of free trade

US companies are subject to higher costs due to regulation. If those against free trade want fair trade here's the solution: make all companies equal in the eyes of the law. Pass a law requiring all products and services (foreign and domestic) sold in the US to have a supply chain in which every member of the chain is subject to the same laws domestic companies are subject to (min. wage, health standards, child labor laws, etc...).

An Unreflective Man
Pat, you are at it again. I believe you have joined the dark side if you believe that Israel should give up any land. The land was always Israels and promised to them by God. You mentioned the humanitarian issues in GAZA as if only the Palestine people were suffering and dying. You, like the MSM, only show the terrorist side and blame Israel for everything. It is a big mistake for anyone, especially Christian (well we used to be)nation to tell Israel to give up land. Based on your beliefs we should give up all of America back to the native indians and all of us immigrants move to the reservation.

Bush wacker begone!
He stole the election in 2000, what did you expect? Just because the supremes blessed the theft, doesn't make it right.
He is an unreflective man; he has had much of his assets (a good education, slacking in military preparedness, failed business ventures, actually outright winning the first election) handed to him on a silver, somewhat tarnished platter. He failed at most endeavors before becoming Prez; how he ascended is beyond me! His last press conference was no surprise to me or most people I know. I am happy he will be gone soon; we needed new leadership 8 years ago and got the same old tired worn out republicism that almost broke us under Reagan.
My hope is that BHO will be more thoughtful, listen to the people, be honest and enact a plan of correction that will work. Now to get Congress to get its act together.

Pat is partially right, as usual
That Bush is "unreflective" is undeniable. But not because he advocates so-called free trade. Bush's primary economic failings have involved too much spending and too much regulation. Pat apparently criticizes Bush for not regulating enough. Why not try freedom just once?

Col. Billy Mitchell
Well said and my sentiments exactly!



Okay I have to laugh
at the people who scream about Bush putting democracy in the ME and nation building, but out the other side of their mouth demand that we, as well as Israel, nation build for the Palestinians.

Pat you disgust me
Hamas initiated and this war and we should show compassion towards them? Hamas was given control of Gaza BY Israel and do they then proceed to start a government that will take care of it's people? No, They continue waging war against Israel. What does the number of dead have to with it? There would be no dead if Hamas would stop attacking Israel, I'm sorry they are so inept at it.

baseballdoc
You know very well that I was not talking about $50 import fees on a pair of shoes. I was talking about a playing field that our corrupt politicans have allowed American businesses to transfer their manufacturing or production to foreign nations.

It's not about the "rust belt" or $50 tariffs on a pair of shoes. It's not even about free trade.

It's about FAIR TRADE.

OMG!!!!
I can't believe my eyes as I read this article. I actually totally agree with Pat. That's a first for me.
It is sad that all the good intentions of the Administration were failures, not because of the ideals, but because of the chosen methods of implementation. There are many paths to success, unfortunately our President's advisers were short on dynamic plans.

Israel and Hamas
I don't see where the difference in the numbers between the dead from Israel and the Palestinians have any bearing on Israel's right to fight back against terrorists. Israel was attacked with rockets for many months. At some point you have to fight back. When you do fight back make it worth while. If a mosque, school, or a house has weapons in it, it ceases to be a mosque, school, or house and it become a target. If you live with terrorists then you might die with them.

To Oneweek
I recommend you study your history, and stop perpetuating a lie. There already is a "palestinian" state, it's called Jordan.

Col. Billy
You are mostly correct about the ability of the presidency to effect real change or policy on trade, immigration, the military and all those things you mentioned and the things you left out.

You really need to have a talk with the goobers who tried to blame Clinton for much of disasters during the Bush presidency. I'm sure you would agree that since the presidency has little or no power to "write laws" or control Congress it's incredibly stupid to try to blame a FORMER president for what's happenening during a current regime. Right?

And you really need to have a talk with the even bigger goobers who often try to blame Jimmy Carter or even FDR decades after they have even been in office.

I agree with you that the presidency is given too much credit for power and the actions it can control.

Thanx for bringing it up and reminding us all how stupid it is to blame Slick Willy or FDR for what is going on now.






OneWeekToGo!WooHoo!
If you or anyone else think that the goal of the Palestinians is to establish their own state you are sadly mistaken.

Their sole goal is the extermination of Israel. They get closer to that goal by enlisting aid from Iran that share that goal and other countries that are fooled into thinking what they want is their own land. Arafat was offered that and rejected it - 'nuff said.

Lolo
You say that many people who critisize Bush for his nation building "out the other side of their mouth demand that we...nation build for the Palestinians"

Just curious, but could you list some of the people who have said that they want us to "nation build" for the Pals?

Who has ever said that we should go into Palestine and create or control a nation for the Pals?

Oneweek___woohoo
You had better be worrying about your state.

29% of illegals in CaliforniCa are collecting welfare,free housing,foodstamps,free medical care and your state is 45 billion dollars in the hole.

Tom...ignorance is no excuse
“You seem to be forgetting or ignorinbg who caused most of the underlying conditions that caused the current mess not only in Gaza but in all of the areas where Israel has basically created ghettos.”


Liberals love to sympathize with terrorists, murderers and those who use violent rioting as a form of ‘protest.’ They mistakenly believe it makes them appear to be more open-minded and sympathetic, when in truth it is evidence of their immature mentalities. They look at the world the way a naïve teenager does, always taking the ‘anti-establishment’ view regardless of the circumstances. That is the only possible way to explain why they rally in defense of convicted murderers (such as Stanley ‘Toukie’ Williams), hob-knob with terrorists like William Ayers, hand out peace prizes to thugs like Yassar Arafat, and make excuses for a group whose mission is to destroy Israel.

I don’t believe Israel is responsible for the Palestinians living in ghettos any more than I believe black ghettos in the U.S. are the fault of the white population. At some point people need to be held responsible for how and where they choose to live and for what efforts they make to improve their own lives. That’s the conservative way. The liberal way is sit on your butt with your hand out and blame someone else. The sad fate of the Palestinians might say something about what becomes of people whose only mission in life is to destroy someone else.

Tom & the fallacies of liberal thinking
Tom: “And you really need to have a talk with the even bigger goobers who often try to blame Jimmy Carter or even FDR decades after they have even been in office.”

Yet another sign of the immaturity of leftwing thinking is that liberals actually believe the policies enacted during any presidency magically end when the president’s term is over.

An inability to see the forest for the trees is a key component of leftwing thought process.

Lenard
You say that there already is a Palestinian state...Jordon. That's a tad disengenuous at best.

Jordon is another of the created Middle East nations that was included when the Brits (with assistance from the French) screwed up the entire region. (Soon after the idiots in our nation saw fit for us to jump in after the Brits and the French both bailed out. True genius!)

Jordon is 98% Arab and would not by any stretch of the imagination be called a Palestinian state. Yes, there is a large group of Pals in Jordon but so is there huge groups from Iraq and other places. In fact, of the reported nearly 3 million who have left Iraq more than half went to Jordon and now comprise a huge portion of Jordon's less than 7 million population.

Few credible ME experts would call Jordon a Palestinian state.

LD35
Unfortunately, it wouldn't surprise me at all if once Obama is sworn in, he gives the state of California a bailout - a bailout that you and I will be paying for even though we don't even live in California (or for me, not anymore, anyway).

I couldn't care less if California wants to become a socialist experiment - just so long as its people, not those in the rest of the nation, have to pay the bill for it. But with a liberal Democrat in the White House for whom California is part of his voter base, I think there's a decent chance that Obama will stick everyone else with the bill for California's fiscal follies.

I used to be someone who greatly respected Patrick Buchanan; I even contributed money to his 1992 presidential campaign. But with each passing column he writes, it becomes harder and harder for me to listen seriously to him anymore. Too bad, because when he wants to be, he's still as brilliant a political commentator as there is out there. But these days, that brilliance seems to be exercised less and less. And it's getting downright tiresome to hear Pat constantly re-fighting World Wars 1 and 2 in his columns.

Really surprised--
Wow I am really surprised that peso george didn't move to mexico.. Also we are surprised that his so-called presidential library is not being built in mexico.
Being a solid conservative republican, I wrote in Tancredo and Hunter both times at the elections, and wonder now if many hard core conservatives wish that they had done the same.
But now we have the messiah,@$#&*%$. BTW, for those who blast Sarah Palin, at least she is not controlled by puppet masters as are many others in DC, my opinion.....

Timing is everything!
Attempts to "unseat" Carter, as the worst president ever, are getting more desperate and hilarious by the day. Carter's timing? He can never escape it.
Compare that to 8 years of W. It will look like 4 years of his pop, namely, transitional--at worst! We're looking for transcending!
Here's where Barack finds his timing-and he knows it! And, will get the praise,or the shaft, for this new frontier that we find ourselves. ( I'm guessing very bad timing, but I wish us all luck)
W found a time slot in history that will barely register 10 years from now. Clinton? The same. Did he really happen? Timing folks, timing!

CW
You seem to have both a comprehension and an honesty issue.

Why else would you immediately label "liberal" anyone who questions the actions of Israel?

You also toss up strawman arguments by bringing up nonsense that has nothing to do with the Israel/Hamas issue such as "...defense of convicted murderers...Stanley ‘Toukie’ Williams...Ayers...black ghettos..." and the like. Did you just escape from recess or are you an adult but still unable to stay on subject without groping for an agenda?

Yes, the Pals and Hamas must share the blame for their many stupid actions and we should not support them. But only a fool would pretend that most of the situation in Gaza was not caused by Israel.

My nation, the United States of America, should not be supporting a nation that acts like Israel. Israel has more documented human rights violations than any nation on the planet. Name another nation we support that actually fences in and walls off a huge civilian population and that seldom if ever allows independent observers, monitors, or reporters?

Israel has never done anything to warrant our unquestioned support. Obama is an idiot to say that Israel is our "great friend and ally" whom we will always support.

No foreign nation should EVER get that kind of blank check from my nation, the United States of America. Period.

Oneweektogo...

“Poor and desperate and uneducated people will look for leaders and help where they may find it...even if that leader is the devil in disguise unfortunately.”

Well since the Left just elected Obama, I can hardly disagree with you.

CW
You also said "Yet another sign of the immaturity of leftwing thinking is that liberals actually believe the policies enacted during any presidency magically end when the president’s term is over."

Um...you need to get with Col. Billy on that since I was facetiously referring to what he had posted.

I apologize for you not being able to figure that out.

Tom
Who did you vote for in this latest presidential election?

Good Bye and God Bless GWB
Harry Truman's presidency was far more complicated with the Russo-China threat than what George Bush faced. The only ssimilarity between the two is that GW has thought he was imitating HST. The North Koreans REALLY did invade a country - unlike our incursion into Iraq. Sorry, Pat, combining these two presidencies just won't fly. Let's just hope GW has a long, happy and reflective retirement. You and all of us know essentially he is a good man, but that he was taken in by the Neocons.

Standshisground
You may be on to something about letting CA go it's own way.

Why not give it to Israel? Take away the 1,200,000 legal Arab citizens of Israel and that would leave only about 6 million Jews who would move in. They are hard working people and certainly would improve the economy.

And with their vast experience in "relocating" people and creating nice peaceful sounding things like "settlements" they could probably eliminate the CA issue with illegal Hispanics in a heartbeat.

This is a win/win deal.

The Jews would have their "homeland"...the Middle East Arab nations and Iran could fight to their hearts content and we would not have to be involved...our immigration mess would be greatly helped...and maybe even the Bernie Madoff's and Wall Street financial firms could be relocated to the left coast.

Plus, all the goobers who seem to support Israel more than our nation, the United States of America, could simply drive out west and join their fav nation.

Let's do it!!


OneWeek....(& weak minded)
“Poor and desperate and uneducated people will look for leaders and help where they may find it...even if that leader is the devil in disguise unfortunately.”

Are you suggesting that Hamas was somehow disguised to the Palestinians? How so?


As for Obama supporters you must have missed the hilarious exit interviews showing what a bunch of numb-skulls his voters were. Most can’t even spell ‘Obama,’ much less explain anything he stands for. As for the ‘college educated,’ George Bush has an MBA from Yale, so by your own definition a college degree doesn’t guarantee intelligence.

Buchanan speaks such Dribble!
I would have to say that Clinton moreso like Wilson allowed Terrorism to germinate during his reign as POTUS ..his turning a blind eye to this left Bush in charge to confront terrorism and ergo wake up the world to something that has brewed during the 8 year reign of the Clintons ..yet you want to lay this at the doorstep of Bush?While I might agree that Bush let us "True" fiscal Republicans down by not using his veto pen..I totally support him going to war after 9/11..some ideologs such as terrorist CAN NOT BE RECKONED WITH! These people were taught hate since their birth..it is imbred and brainwashed to fanatacism..We must NOW get Iran,Lebanon and Syria to give up their evil ways..I think if we blew their satelites out of the skies then their hate TV channels wouldn't be able to perpetuate the destruction of anyone that isn't a Muslim!

When will we be able to say, Goodbye,

Mr. Buchanan, and God bless?

Tonight on BSNBC would be nice!



One thing I learn from these threads
is they are the last place to go to get informed.

Well gee, chuck, then feel VERY FREE

to NOT stop by! :-)



CW
I really don't see the relevance of your voting question...but considering that you mentioned "...defense of convicted murderers...Stanley ‘Toukie’ Williams...Ayers...black ghettos..." during a discussion about Gaza, Hamas, and the Pals...I guess it makes perfect sense to you.

However, in the spirit of fairness, if you will answer the questions I posed to you and others about Israel I will gladly tell you who I voted for in every election since 1968.

Perhaps Buchanan might want to

take a look at Matt Towery's column...

"Handwritten Bush Letter Disproves One Myth, Hints at Others That Might Be Disproved"

Towery has been critical of Pres. Bush over the years, but he's NOT blind and narrow-minded as Buchanan...


TOM
There are no "palestinians" in Jordan, most Arabs living in the British owned land, of Palestina were Jordanians or bedouins. It was never theirs as a country.

tom
One thing for sure: if we DID give California to the Israelis, they couldn't POSSIBLY do a WORSE job of running that state than the current crop of politicians there!

Allow me to explain, Tom...

Tom: “Why else would you immediately label "liberal" anyone who questions the actions of Israel?”


1. It is a FACT that groups such as the PLO and Hammas have, as their mission, the destruction of Isreal. This alone would lead any logical person (i.e. a conservative) to put aside any thought of repeatedly asking Israel to come to the peace table. It’s silly, but very typical of the Left.

2. Anyone who’s read the news for the past 20 years should recall the weekly stories of suicide bombings carried out by Palestinians in Israeli pizza parlors, market places, buses, etc., etc., etc. Now Israel is supposed to tolerate a little rocket attack now and then. A logical person (i.e. a conservative) would conclude that the Palestinians are the ones who continue to provoke the fight, and they are going to continue to attack Israel regardless of any peace agreements or concessions made by Israel. You have concluded otherwise, and have actually come to the defense of the fight provokers, therefore you are a liberal.

Tom

Tom: “I really don't see the relevance of your voting question…”

You are indignant that I assumed, from all of the silly things you’ve said so far, that you’re a liberal, as if there was really ever any question about it. Since you don’t want to say for whom you voted, I think we can all safely assume it was Obama. Don’t feel bad, I wouldn’t have admitted it either.

roy- IL
Before the Iraq war, Saddam had invaded Kuwait, resulting in the first gulf war - he did have WMD's, almost ALL of congress agreed that he had to be dealt with, and they voted FOR the war accordingly under Bush. The war was *global* from the beginning, we just began it in Iraq - which geo-politically was a brilliant plan, as Iraq is *center* of other problem middle east countries.

After 9/11 Bush simply had the guts to try what others ignored.

Cheney has ever right to not tell us about meetings for national security purposes.

Answer this - if we went for "oil" then where the heck is it? Supply and demand would result in lower prices not higher prices. If we had that supply of oil then we would not be paying over a dollar a gallon.

However we did "secure" the oil fields - for the Iraqis. This is the only real export they have and we secured it, which will benefit us. So? Win/win. Why is it liberals are consistently against the US having a strategy that helps all of us?


Oneweek___Woohoo
Sorry, i didn't know you were poor and living off other people.

And, it was the uneducated that put Jug Ears in the American Whitehouse.

Also, in the news this morning, 140,000 families moved out of CA. in 08....left the dumb ones i guess.

CW, you are wrong.
You actually do not know what you are talking about, do you?

Before you blurt on a public board, take the time to research exactly how many suicide bombimgs there have been inside Israel over the past few years.

Let me give you hint: In one very recent year (2007 I think) there were an equal number of Martian space ship landings on the White House front lawn as there were suicide bombings inside Israel.

You can call me a liberal (which I am not) but you seem to be an _ _ _ _ _........oh, you fill in the blanks so that I don't appear mean!

Now, anything else that you want to "explain" to me?

Tom declares:

“Israel has more documented human rights violations than any nation on the planet.”


Wow. Considering what we know about about nations such as China, Burma, Zimbabwe, Columbia and Iran (to name a few), that’s a pretty hefty declaration. Show me some documentation from a neutral source justifying such a claim (I’m assuming you read it somewhere and didn’t just make it up).

Now let me ask you this: Does blowing people up in pizza parlors and on buses qualify as human rights violations in the land of the Left? How about rocket attacks? Would you qualify those as human rights abuses?

Jo,President Bush does not agee with you
Check todays issue (Jan. 13) of USA Today, Page 5A, center column, big black letters:

Mr. Bush says that one of his greatest "disappointments" was not finding any WMD's in Iraq.

Or, heaven forbid, do you think that he would lie to us about something like that?


jo
uh jo did you think they were grabbing the oil fields so they could give you a break at the pump?and as far as saddam,the wmd's he had were the ones we gave him during the iran/iraq war.don't you remember those photos of saddam and rumsfeld hugging and kissing over in baghdad.they were all buddy buddy back then.

CW...wrong again!
Man, but are you ever on a roll. First you incorrectly blurt about the suicide attacks inside Israel and now you say "I think we can all safely assume it was Obama." of my presidentiual vote.

Here's some more hints for you: First of all it's not "we all" who are incorrectly assuming who I voted for...it's YOU.

Second, I voted for the only guy who (although a bit of screwball sometime) seemed to be the only one smart enough to realize that my nation, the United States of America, should not only never be obligated to any foreign nation but alos that we should not have our troops all over the damn planet in foreign nations. I can only hope that you do better on figuring out who that candidate was than you did on that suicide bombings in Israel thing. Good luck.

Okay, I know your limitations so you get an extra clue: His first name was Ron and the worst thing about him is that he comes from the same state as someone who is possibly the most inept president in our nation's history. And his last names starts with "P" and it has two vowels in the middle. And the last letter rhymes with the nickname of a famous above ground train system in Chicago.

But that's all the clues you get.

jo
and how would knowing who's present at a meeting going to compromise national security?i'll take a guess though.halliburton?enron?bechtel?pretty good guesses huh?

Bush
Bush was never a republican. He has always been a liberal. I could never understand why the liberal media did not love him. He never found a bill that he did not love, he spent our money like a drunken sailor, he grew government and he refused to protect our borders. Doesn't that sound like a libral? I don't believe that he thought he was elected to serve the American people. I did hear that he has done more for Africa than any one else in the world. Maybe he thought he was elected to serve Africa. I know it's confusing...but.

Tom - if you care about truth pt.1
From the LA Times, 12/25/08
“Militants in the Gaza Strip showered southern Israeli towns with rockets and mortar fire Wednesday in the latest sign that the six-month truce between Israel and Hamas has collapsed.
An estimated 30 rockets and at least 20 mortar shells were launched from Gaza, Israeli and Palestinian sources said.”

And from Human Rights Watch, 6/30/07:
“In the northern Gaza Strip and adjoining areas of Israel, attacks by Palestinian armed groups launching locally made rockets known as Qassams and attacks by the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) firing 155mm artillery shells have together killed dozens of civilians, wounded hundreds, and greatly disrupted civilian life. After Israel's withdrawal from Gaza in September 2005, Palestinian rocket attacks continued sporadically, spiking in late September, late October and again in December, with Israeli artillery fire following suit beginning in late October.”

The Earth Times, 12/31/08
“Tel Aviv - Palestinian militants in the Gaza Strip first fired a missile at Israel on October 27, 2001. Since then, around 10,300 rockets and mortar shells have been launched at southern Israel, the non-profit Sderot Media Centre, which keeps a toll, said. The projectiles have killed 32 Israelis, including four since Hamas and other militant groups responded to the current Israeli air offensive in the Gaza Strip by showering Israel with missiles. Prior to the Israeli attacks, which began on Saturday, at least 600 people have been wounded by the rockets, and hundreds more treated for shock and hysteria.”

Tom - if you care about truth pt.2

And here’s just a few recent attacks documented by the ADL:

• July 22, 2008: Sixteen people were wounded when a man drove a bulldozer into a bus and four other vehicles in central Jerusalem. The attack was an attempted copycat of an earlier attack on Jerusalem’s Jaffa Road on July 2, 2008. The terrorist was shot dead by police.
• July 2, 2008: An Arab resident of Jerusalem deliberately drove a bulldozer into pedestrians and vehicles in central Jerusalem, overturning and flattening a number of buses and cars. Three people were killed and 66 injured in the attack.
• April 9, 2008: Two Israeli civilians were killed and two wounded when Palestinian terrorists attacked an Israeli-controlled border crossing where fuel is piped into Gaza. The attack at the Nahal Oz depot was carried out by members of various terrorist movements, including the Popular Resistance Committees.
• March 6, 2008: Eight men, seven of them teenagers, were killed when a Palestinian gunman entered the Merkaz HaRav Yeshiva in Jerusalem and opened fire. The terrorist also wounded nine in the attack before he was killed at the scene.


So I don’t know where you get your information, but apparently you’re not getting the full story. Imagine that.

Tom
Ron Paul?! What a dumb waste of a vote. But I do think slightly better of you.

BTW: What is your news source for the Israel/Palestinian conflict?

Goodbye, Bush ...
... Goodbye, Mr. President, indeed! OsiSpeaks.com

Onemoreweektogo
Is Obama going to be your president or have you decided to renounce your citizenship and leave the country?says -- One More week to go to Anne

==================

I don't know about Anne but I for one will not have a Marxist as President - however with that said, he's done such a marvelous job of disappointing his OWN base - he may have hope yet!

Change we can believe in -- yep - from the Bush administration right back to the left-over moved around Clinton administration.

Liberty doesn't apply to trade?
There is no moral justification for limiting personal liberty. If I want to buy goods from my home town, my home state, my neighboring state, or a foreign country, it's essentially an expression of the same fundamental liberty, which, according to our founders' vision and our founding documents, is sacrosanct. An inalienable human birthright belonging unequivocally to each and every human being. As long as I own the property I am offering in exchange for property rightfully owned by another, it matters not at all on what side of what border that entity resides. To believe otherwise is morally bankrupt and an indefensible breach of the liberty that is my birthright as a human being. Absent a compelling national security threat, such as technology transfer to a hostile government, no American government can defensibly prohibit the peaceable exchange of property between its rightful owners. To do so is not merely a violation of our primary founding principal, but an affront to the Creator, whomever you might deem that to be. That is, of course, unless you don't think the Declaration of Independence places limits on government, as reflected in the Constitution.

OneWeak

We can argue all day long about to whom the land belongs. I just showed Tom that he has reason to doubt the source for his facts about the conflict, and since you’re a lefty the same applies to you. In any event, Israel thinks it’s theirs, the Palestinians think it’s theirs. Israel is not leaving. The Palestinians have three choices: (1) They can leave; (2) They can abide by a peace treaty and begin working on ways to co-exist with the Jews and perhaps finally benefit from the economic development brought to the region by the Israelis; or (3) They can continue to insist on trying to destroy the Jews, in which case they bring death and destruction upon their own people, including their children.

If they CHOOSE #3, and Israel decides that 50 years of this bulls**t is enough, they have no one to blame but themselves.

roy- IL
halliburton?enron?bechtel?pretty good guesses huh? roy

==========================================

Perhaps/or maybe not -- either way there is reason for the silence - besides the typical Bush bashing paranoid made up reasons of the left.

You know innocent until proven guilty and all that.

Which by the way - Bush and Cheney BOTH apparently are innocent - because the left (despite their efforts) have yet to find SANE impeachable reason for removing either of them from office.

That would be a clue, much like the fact we have not been hit by terrorists on our soil since 9/11, or that we slipped into financial decay by the hands of democrats in charge of banking and finance. etc... the evidence is there for those who open their eyes.

Try it.

WOO WOO CA

.....There is not, nor has there ever been an independent nation called Palestine ...

.....If you have a hard-on for the Jews then blame the Ottomans, the British and the UN for mandating the State of Israel ...the UN created the present problem but to demonstrate its uselessness, it is unable to correct it ...or anything else for that matter ...

.....It seems to me that your State is being invaded by a foreign nation (Mexico) and La Raza does have plans for a takeover ...maybe you should be worried about the Mexican invaders and let the Jews take care of themselves ...

.....TOM WI .....I think you have hit on the perfect solution for peace in the ME ...six million Jews would hardly be noticed in CA and they certainly would improve the quality of life out there ...they turned the Negev into a garden ...maybe they could do the same thing in the Mojave ...I'm all for it ...where do I sign the petition? .....COLOSSUS

JoBlo
Go back to your Country Club in West Palm to hang out with all your whiney lib friends with bad manners - just like you.

To add to CW - TX
Israel decides that 50 years of this bulls**t is enough, they have no one to blame but themselves. CW - TX

=============================

Amen.

Israel has tried multiple times for resolution - Palestinian's ELECTED Hammas to watch over them -- if Hammas leaders are now placing them in strategic areas they know Isreal will hit (to show body counts) - who's fault is it? Not Israels!

Palestinians asked for this by way of vote, they voted in their own demise.

Economically perhaps the US did too == one week to I-don't-know-BO.

Something
I can seldom say--I do not like you, Patrick.

Buchanan -- The Ideologue
Buchanan offers of Bush, "Like Wilson, he is a utopian. He fails to understand that idealism has its delusions and disasters."

These words reflect more on Pat Buchanan, an idealogue, than Bush, a pragmatist.

Buchanan is nothing more than a protectionist that proscribes all ills to Free Trade. If Buchanan had his way, we would still be farmers, making buggy whips and dependant on the telegraph.

Thank goodness, nobody really listens to this guy.

we're to blame, right?
Pat,

You're unbelievable. So Wilson was responsible for Hitler, Stalin,...and Mao...and athlete's foot, right? Who would have thought we were so freaking powerful! How peaceful the world would be without us, Pat.

CW
What makes you think that voting for the best man is a waste of a vote? It's know as voting for principle rather than expediency or having an agenda...or just plain stupid as in the case of the idiots who vote a straight ticket.

BTW, how did your guy do in the election? Hmmm...seems you "wasted" your vote also I would guess.

jo
its like ol little bill says in unforgiven.innocent?innocent of what?you still haven't given a good reason why the american people have no right to know who was at this meeting?not what they talked about.just who was there.this was before 9/11 remember.not sure that citing "national security"cuts it 8 years later.

Woo Woo - Lost In Nonsense
oneweektogo woo woo offers, "If you and 700,000 of your neighbors were driven off from your homes, lived for 50 years as refugees in slums, with no country or rights, it's not like you would have a grudge is it?"

You mean like native Americans? Or, Mexican residents in California, New Mexico, Arizona and Texas when they became US sovereignty?

Oooops! They assimilated and became productive citizens of their new country. How dumb was that?

According to your thinking, they should have set up an intifada, starving themselves, throwing temper tantrums and harming anyone that argues otherwise. Nice.

The Return Of Sophie?
Has Sophie returned under another 'assumed name'? How many times is this she been resurrected?

Bush and Buchanan
"But nowhere in his defense of free trade was there any explanation for how Middle America lost 3 million manufacturing jobs in his first term and a million more in the last year."

That happened because Bush practiced Keynesian economics to pay for his wars and welfare increases. Since you worked for Nixon, Buchanan, I'd think you'd understand that. Another compassionate Republican president, Herbert Hoover, was a protectionist, and he failed miserably. You failed to mention him in your article.

CW
You just don't read very carefully, do you?

I said "suicide bombings" and nothing that you listed was a suicide "bombing." Yes, it's matter of semantics and splitting hairs, but you need to pay attention.

However, actually they revised the numbers and there is now one recorded suicide bombing inside Israel in 2007. Not sure why.


Lenard
First you said:
"There already is a "palestinian" state, it's called Jordan."

Now you say:
"There are no "palestinians" in Jordan, most Arabs living in the British owned land, of Palestina were Jordanians or bedouins."

So which one do you want to go with? Are you a tad confused or does your keyboard not follow your directions when you post?

Tom says:

“What makes you think that voting for the best man is a waste of a vote? It's know as voting for principle rather than expediency or having an agenda...or just plain stupid as in the case of the idiots who vote a straight ticket.”


You voted for someone who wasn’t even on the ballot and have the audacity (sorry Obama supporters) to ask why your vote was wasted? How old did you say you are?!

A principled person believes in a certain set of values. In general the values of the Left (living constitution, gun controls, abortion rights, greater government control, higher taxes, etc.) differ markedly from those of the Right (free-market capitalism, limited government, right-to-life, adherence to the constitution, lower taxes, etc.). How can you possibly adhere to a set of principles and NOT vote party line? If I am an “idiot” (the favorite insult of the Left, BTW), then your are unprincipled.



It's almost humorous
to watch the very people who probably were big Buchanon supporters (as long as he matched their bias) now attacking him simply because he speaks the truth about Bush and Israel.

I have yet to see anyone list anything that is not true in Buchanon's article.

But hey, when it comes to Israel, facts really don't count for much to Israel supporters, do they?


just curious
aren't supply side tax cuts suppose to create jobs?jobs created under clinton-21 million.jobs created under bush-3 million.so where's all these jobs that the bush tax cuts were suppose to create?kinda looks like supply side has failed miserably.but then it always has.

Tom:

Tom: “CW, You just don't read very carefully, do you? I said "suicide bombings" and nothing that you listed was a suicide "bombing." Yes, it's matter of semantics and splitting hairs, but you need to pay attention.”


You want to quibble because people are being targeted by rockets instead of suicide bombs? The only reason they switched was because of the wall Israel built; otherwise the suicide bombers would have no doubt continued on their deathly missions.

BTW, I never said the suicide bombings were recent. I spoke about the bombings AND rocket attacks over a 20 year period. Maybe you need to follow your own advice about paying attention.

Funny how you took the time to scold me for not paying attention (admitting that you were splitting hairs), yet you haven’t addressed the list of violent acts I listed and whether or not they qualify as human rights abuses in your book? Nor have you listed any source to back up your claim that Israel is the worst human rights abuser on the planet. Seems that a reasonable person might have spent their time on that rather than splitting hairs.

CW and straight ticket voting
You say: "How can you possibly adhere to a set of principles and NOT vote party line?"

Are you trying to make yourself look foolish or are you just getting tired today?

So you are suggesting that regardless of the quality of the person you would vote a straight GOP ticket?

Well...think Larry Craig, Ted Stevens, Mark Foley, Tom Delay, Duke Cunningham, Bob Ney...before you reply. Anyone who would vote for people like this simply because they are a certain "ticket" is incredibly stupid...and does great harm to our nation.

This applies to stupid Dems as well as to stupid GOPers.

roy- IL
you still haven't given a good reason why the american people have no right to know who was at this meeting? says -- roy

==================================

You don't have a good reason why they should know either.

Sir face it - you can't pass the non-partisan test. You have your mind made up, that Cheney is evil with no evidence, despite the work the Bush administration did to protect you.

jo
sure i do-its called transparency in government and the freedom of information act which cheney has unlawfully ignored.

fox business news
fbn is suing the treasury for ignoring a foi request.i think the reason cheney doesn't want us to know who was there is it might be a little embarrassing to match up the lists of who attended the energy task force meeting and who got no-bid contracts in iraq.has nothing to do with "national security" and everything to do with legacy security.

yeah Pat, well no one speaks like bush
"Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we." —Washington, D.C., Aug. 5, 2004

oops maybe he really meant that one.

7 days

Sophie's Hoo Hoo
Put a sock in it,Sophie!!

Rowly @ 6:15 p.m. EST

I see we now have WooHoo The Wack Job, who has posted Silly Sophie like garbage.

Silly Sophie or WooHoo The Wack Job.

What's the diff?

Tom

Tom: “Are you trying to make yourself look foolish or are you just getting tired today?”


Let’s see, so far Tom is…

A liberal who doesn’t yet realize he’s a liberal.
A person who throws away his vote voting for a candidate not even on the ballot.
A person who makes unsubstantiated claims that Israel is the world’s greatest human rights abuser.
A person thinks 28 deaths from rocket attacks by Hamas is no big deal.
A person who thinks only 28 people have died from Palestinian violence in 8 years.
A person who quibbles about deaths from suicide bombings vs. rocket attacks….
Etc., etc., etc.

Who looks foolish?

tom
Reply to 6:34. Tom I'm sorry you're a little slow. What part did you not get? I placed palestinians in quotes so it was clear that I was saying no such creature as a "palestinian" exists. Why did I say Jordan is a "palestinian" state? Simple most who are current "palestinians" are Jordanians who were cut off from returning to Jordan. It was the British who called the area Palestina, but it was not a nation. Probably above your head, but for those who know a little history it would not be lost on them. Thanks for showing that they are always people willing to opine even on that of which they are ignorant.

T.C
Yep,the one and only....

CW
You keep asking...but I'm just hoping that you really are not unaware of the huge numbers of human rights violations that various independent agencies have charged against Israel. These include everything from the independent Human Rights Committee, Amnesty International, the UN Human Rights groups, the Geneva Human Rights group, and interestly...from various groups with-in Israel itself. Apparantly many of the decent and honest Jews have a better grip on reality than some of the fools in the USA who think that they can better judge the situation while having no first hand knowledge whatsoever. Go figure.

As for official condemnations, Israel probably leads the UN with no less than 157 official condemnations. The only reason that Israel has not been officially sanctioned is because a certain nation that we will not name here happens to be a permanent member of the 15 nation Security Council and repeatedly is the ONLY vote that sides with Israel or blocks official sanctions and violation charges against Israel. Small children could see the obvious bias of the USA toward Israel but it seems to escape many adults. And you?

The same is basically true at the Geneva based Human Rights world organization. The USA was afraid to even join this one and the vote there is mostly hugely against Israel. A recent vote on the Gaza mess was 47-1 with only a single vote siding with Israel.

Now do you actually think that we are that much wiser and honest than the rest of the world?

If you want further indication of Israel's actions...tell us why Israel repeatedly refuses to allow monitors, reporters, or observers in the troubled areas? If you recall, President Bush used the fact that Saddam would not allow inspections as a reason for invading Iraq. Yet Israel does it and we say nothing and actually support them. It's nuts and you know it.

Tom...

Tom: “Well...think Larry Craig, Ted Stevens, Mark Foley, Tom Delay, Duke Cunningham, Bob Ney...before you reply. Anyone who would vote for people like this simply because they are a certain "ticket" is incredibly stupid...and does great harm to our nation.”

If you want to make such an argument you might want to actually list candidates who ran AFTER they were disgraced, which narrows your list down to Ted Stevens. I hate to think what the list would look like if we were talking about democrats, but there are space limitations.

In Stevens case, if my choice were to vote for Stevens or to vote for a democrat who stands for everything I am against then it’s no contest – Stevens wins. After the election if he is indicted the Governor gets to select a replacement, and would presumably select a republican. If he is cleared of the charges then there is no problem with him serving. Dilema solved.

You, on the other hand, would presumably compromise your principles. But then you don’t have any…

BTW, was Tom Delay ever convicted of anything?

Lenard
Now let us get this straight: when you said "There already is a "palestinian" state, it's called Jordan." you really didn't mean it.

But when you said:
"There are no "palestinians" in Jordan, most Arabs living in the British owned land, of Palestina were Jordanians or bedouins." you really did mean it. Right? Get real.

You can spin it or twist all you like, but those words that you typed are never going away. Live with it.

In this post (8:27 pm) you say (but will probably deny it) that it was "the British who called the area Palestina"...unless you have changed your mind already.

Well, you missed it by about 1700 years. Around 134 ad the Roman Emperor Hadrian decided to wipe out the identity of Israel-Judah-Judea. So he took the name Palastina and imposed it on all the Land of Israel. The
Romans killed many Jews and sold many minto slavery. FYI, at the same time, he changed the name of Jerusalem to Aelia Capitolina.

See what happens when you try to act supercilious...you make a fool out of yourself. You are now allowed to remove your foot from your mouth.

CW
Interesting analogy you make. You say that I compromise my principles because I vote for the person rather than the party...but you take the high ground by voting straight GOP regardless of who is on either ticket. Logic is not your strong suit, is it?

As for Tom Delay, you are correct that the former pest expterminator was never actually convicted of criminal charges...just like OJ was not convicted of a couple of murders. But scumbag Delay was so corrupt that he once had a $million dollar job lined up as a lobbyist...while he was still the GOP House whip! Even his own party could not stand Delay and kicked his arse back to Texas...where many failed politicians seem to go.

Scummy little Tom DeLay fought to protect energy companies from polution lawsuits, block FDA regulation of tobacco, and pass a Medicare overhaul that forbids the government from negotiating lower prescription drug prices with the drug companies.

My favorite quote about Delay came from Bloomberg News' Michael Forsythe and Jonathan D. Salant:

"It's not hard to put a dollar figure on House Majority Leader Tom DeLay's importance to corporate America," "For drug makers, his support is worth $13 billion; for petrochemical companies, it could be as much as $375 billion."

Do you have other of those GOP super stars that you would like to mention?

Anyone can accuse, Tom...

Tom: “As for official condemnations, Israel probably leads the UN with no less than 157 official condemnations.”

Would that be the same UN that in 2003 selected Libya (!) to chair the UN’s commission on human rights? The same UN whose members, in 2002, elected to deny the U.S. a seat on the human rights commission?


Tom: “Now do you actually think that we are that much wiser and honest than the rest of the world?”

For the most part, yes.

Tom: “tell us why Israel repeatedly refuses to allow monitors, reporters, or observers in the troubled areas?”

More unsubstantiated claims. Why don’t you cite some references?

Shame on you, Tom

Still pretending not to be a lefty?

First, you’re supposed to give credit when you borrow a quote from someone, as you did with this statement:

“Tom DeLay fought to protect energy companies from polution lawsuits, block FDA regulation of tobacco, and pass a Medicare overhaul that forbids the government from negotiating lower prescription drug prices with the drug companies.”

It’s pretty sad when you had to rummage around on the internet for reasons to justify your disdain for Delay. Most normal people (conservatives, that is) have their reasons BEFORE their disdain.

If you had any credibility, it was lost with that trick.

REALCON IS CORRECT
Reagan ruined California, with total disregard for illegal immigration on his watch. In 1981, it was a growing problem. By 1989, Americans were fleeing this State after his amnesty and non-enforcement. Iran-Contra also created a floodtide of illegals from El Salvador and Nicaragua (MS-13 gangs).
You are also correct in saying that he allowed businesses like the meat packers to bust the unions by smuggling illegals in to take the jobs. But you won't see any of this in the MSM, FOX, or Repub worshipping websites like Townhall.com. If you want the truth about our borders, go to Americanpatrol.com, deportaliens.com, or idexer.com

Pres. Jorge focused on wrong bad guys

I voted 2x for W, but I am sick about it (though Windsurfer and public traitor Cohen-Kerry was NOT an alternative). The war in Iraq was a profligate war of choice against the wrong Arabs; Iraq had NOTHING to do with 9/11, WMD's were irrelevant to the U.S. anyway, and Saddam and Osama were opponents.

We will have spent $3 TRILLION all-in, with thousands killed and maimed-- all because the neoCONS then manipulating the Bush W.H. (Perle, Wolfy, Feith, Libby, and Wurmser... and their fellow pan-Israeli allies braying incessantly in the media--> Krauthammer, May, Kristol, Kagan, Prager, Gaffney, Barone, Medved, Prelutsky) wanted permanent American bases in Iraq for Israel's protection-- the dirty little secret.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/guest_c ontributors/article3419840.ece
http://www.csmonitor.com/specials/neocon/spheresInfluence.h tml

Meanwhile, near-clueless Presidente Jorge believed in open borders, so he failed to uphold his most fundamental oath-- to defend and protect our border. Like Amnesty John McCain, he had made a Faustian deal years ago for employer lobby $ and Hispanic votes, but both quislings failed to get the latter, even as they sold out America to the indigent, ignorant ILLEGAL alien invasion... which will likely leave a legacy of an America morphing into a third world welfare state as ILLEGALS are enfranchised and vote it in.

Finally, as the column notes, RINO Jorge spent $ and grew govt. like a born-again 'Crat in order to buy loyalty for funding his misbegotten war-- swell job there, Jorge Bush!

sagacious, Pat
re:
"President Bush rightly denounces Europeans who see Israel as always wrong. Yet he behaves as though Israel can do no wrong."

Salient, cognitive and cogent, Pat.

Obama & the ICC
Hey koolmuse,
A few words about your thinking Obama will sign up for the International Criminal Court (ICC).

You stated, There is also, fortunately, the International Criminal Court which Obama no doubt will sign on to. If they choose to indict Bush Cheney & Co. on war crimes, treaty violations, human rights violations etc... Bush's pardons will not stand.

However,
Subjecting U.S. persons to this treaty, with its unaccountable Prosecutor and its unchecked judicial power, is clearly inconsistent with American standards of constitutionalism. This is a macro-constitutional issue for us, not simply a narrow, technical point of law. Our concerns about politically motivated charges against U.S. persons are not just hypothetical.

The U.S. conservative group the Heritage Foundation claims that "United States participation in the ICC treaty regime would also be unconstitutional because it would allow the trial of American citizens for crimes committed on American soil, which are otherwise entirely within the judicial power of the United States. The Supreme Court has long held that only the courts of the United States, as established under the Constitution, can try such offenses."[21] This statement refers to several issues. The first is the trial of American citizens by the ICC and implies that the Court does not have the power to try Americans for crimes committed on U.S. territory. The second refers to due-process issues.

Cw
What did I post about Delay that was not true?

I did leave out the parts about how he used his wife as a paid lobbyist in place of himself. Is that what you meant?

CW
Just curious, but why would any decent American NOT have "disdain" for a scumbag like Tom Delay?

Why do you think that your own party kicked him out of Washington...because he was a fine American and a great human being. Wake up.

Buchanan misses lesson of World War I
The oft- told lesson of World War I is that the Treaty of Versailles simply paved the way for World War II. The obvious oft-ignored lesson is that World War II simply put real teeth in the best part of the Treaty of Versailles: it really dismembered and demilitarized Germany. Further, that demilitarization was enforced by actual arms. Second, the resulting peace allowed for economic growth in Europe and the United States fueled by TRADE between the regions. Admittedly, the trade was not always perfectly free but the prosperity that came from the trade was a consequence of how free it was - not tariffs and other "protectionist" measures which don't protect at all.

The missed lesson of World War II is that Wilson was right, at least about nationalism. In those parts of Europe where nations have states, there has been greater peace and prosperity. In those parts of Europe where they do not, there has not! Thus, the export of the American nation state model WORKS!

Bush had learned the lessons of history, which was why he was not timid and wavering and compromising. Compromised principles are not principles at all. The problem with the Wilsonian vision was that Europe was too arrogant and self-righteous and self-interested and conservative to see its merits. That would describe those who see the Bush vision of the spread of freedom as "unrealistic" - as if its absence will yield stability and peace. People who are not free are neither stable nor peaceful.

Buchanan's References
Buchanan's age is showing, as he is definitly senile. I doubt if he ever met a Russian especially in Hungary. I doubt he served with Eisenhour or he would have realized that people like Patton and his English competition, along with Truscott, Roosevelt and many other able commanders fought the ground war and won. Otherwise we would still be sitting on the beaches of Normandy. Truman was no slouch, He commanded an Artillery Battery in the Ist Infantry Division (The Bloody One) and it still carries his name. Regan was no slouch, he forced the return of the hostages and pushed for the wall to go, but he was assisted by many American and Foriegn supporters, both military and civilian."still begged to have more "undocumented" people admitted to the US. Mr. Bush never lied about his religious convictions. Obamma's convictions seem to be lost in the "ether zone. I don't think that Buchanan remembers the "Communist Threat" run by a Senator of Ohio. Well that originates in the same deficient brain matter of those that believe the Jews started the war. That war was WWII with Hitler as well as the Arabian Death Pledge to kill ALL Jews. The Buchananites are as ignorant of the motives of the Arabs as ther ancestors were of the rules of Mao. The Arabs threw the first stones. Isreal waited and more stones fell. The Jews turned their cheek. More stones and they turned the plows into swords. Now the Arabs are calling "foul". Hummas demonstrated in America, here in our own streets. Democrats originated the fence (Reyes), they orchastrated the airport security,
and hampered the screening of incoming immigrants. On 20 January the Buck stops in Obama's lap. His supporters will be normal again with their couches, TV programs and Computers inside their Biosheres of eternal ignorance of the true world. And they will wonder and philosophise. You should really read Juval's projections.

CW
Why do you ask for the obvious? Do you follow the news at all?

"Tom: “tell us why Israel repeatedly refuses to allow monitors, reporters, or observers in the troubled areas?”

CW: More unsubstantiated claims. Why don’t you cite some references?"

How many do you want CW?


http://www.israelinsider.com/channels/diplomacy/articles/di p_0063.htm

http://en.apa.az/news.php?id=94750

http://www.congoo.com/news/2009January6/Israel-rejects-truc e-monitors

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2001/jul/19/israel3

Also, Israel newspapers Herzliya Pituach, Israel Times and Ha'aretz and Israel radio station Israel National Radio had articles or broadcasts about Israel's opposition to monitors, reporters, and observers.

It's not really much of a secret. It's pretty much been Israel's policy since the world media realized and started showing or talking about about some of the things Israel was doing. Israel had no problem with the media or reporters as long as they were only reporting the Arab and Muslim misdeeds but when the reporters started telling the entire story Israel invented reasons to often keep them out. It happened in Lebanon for about a decade and also during the West Bank disturbances.

To israel supporters
don't let that idiotic pastor of your fool you.

Israel-Palestine is not your expertise and you risk your soul by supporting the massacre in Palestine. next time before entering a battle you know nothing of, see a report from gaza and then decide if you want to sign off on this brutality.

here is a link for you to see: raw uncensored footage from Gaza:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2kKjoQlpgA

Pat, You Amaze Me
I could spend an hour commenting, but it would take at least an hour. Simply put, each and every sentence of your article is only off by 180 degrees. What are you drinking?

It's Time for Buchanan to retire
For he has Lost his ever lovin' mind and should be sent to the glue factory.Bush Deranged Syndrome has permeated what little brain he has left..sad..I use to respect you at one time!

A minor factoid on US Mfg Migration
Buchanan and other media overlook the fact that the move to assemble products off shore started in the late '60's - early '70's when companies like General Electric moved radio manufacturing to Hong Kong from Up State NY. High taxes, high energy costs and union work rules were part of the driving factors. So we (the US) have been asleep regarding this issue for 40+ years it is not all GWB's fault.

roy- IL
sure i do-its called transparency in government and the freedom of information act which cheney has unlawfully ignored. roy -IL

=============================

Freedom of information only applies to *released* information. You have no evidence that Cheney has committed a crime (and believe me, had he, the left would swoop in with indictment) yet you are judge and jury?

Perhaps there is a national security reason for the non-disclosure.

But liberals don't care about our governments secrets that PROTECT us, all you care about is getting the other side.

I watched Pelosi this morning on ABC she kept repeating "Well it was the Bush administration who handed over the remaining bailout funds to Obama" SO?? Bo is responsible for speanding it. I'll wager Bush will be blamed on how BO spends it, because the lefties love to bash Bush. It really is a derangement syndrome.

It is ridiculous, the sooner we work together and get rid of a whole lot of crooks in congress (on BOTH sides) the sooner we take back the USA. Concentrate on the future not the past.

Jeanne
Exactly what do you think that Buchanon said in this article that was not factually correct and true?

Jo
You seem eager to indict the libs and the Dems but quick to defend Bush and Cheney.

Tell us, do you think that President Bush ever lied to the American people?

Roy
You say that President Reagan "forced" the release of the hostages.

Please explain how you think that President Reagan did this, since the hostages were released virtually minutes after Reagan was inaugurated on Jan. 20 1981.

Or did Reagan have some secret powers while he was president-elect?

Bush Presidency
Much of what you write is true. The borders need to be secured and Bush was no conservative! However, attacking Israel is idiotic. Yes, they have the right to defend their children from the barbarians firing rockets into their country and everyone from Bill Clinton on down thought Hussian had weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. I'm glad he is dead along with his two thugish sons. The world is a better place without them in it.

Bush was rather mixed up in his thought processes but so are you, Pat.

You can Scroll down and
read what I wrote earlier..his rant against Israel is pathetic..the man has reversed so many of his prior beliefs that it is evident he is losing his mind..I would say that Clinton has tons more responsibility for allowing Terrorism to grow and prosper allowing our attacks on 9/11..if you allow Bullies (the Terrorist) to continue then you only embolden them as Clinton did with his nonaction!

tom
Tell us, do you think that President Bush ever lied to the American people? tom

===============================

All politicians lie, look at BO he's white-lied his way into office. I'm unsure that some of the bigger alleged "Bush lies" are indeed lies. I suppose that depends on your definition of a lie. For example, the left is convinced that receiving faulty intelligence is a lie. Personally, I wouldn't call bad information a lie. Would you?

And BTW, I'm not defending Cheney - I'm simply pointing out that there could be a very good reasons for the nondisclosure.

In ten years when documents are released we shall see, until then I'm noncommittal.

My turn to ask a question.

Can you name a *documented* Bush lie that changed this nation for the better/worse? (Not leftist talking points, please.)



Jo
President Bush: "WE DO NOT TORTURE."

Bush's Pentagon appointee at Gitmo who decides which prisoners go to trial about the infamous "20th hi-jacker" who was truned away at an airport and missed going with his terrorist buddies on 9/11: He cannot go to trial because "He was tortured."

That makes one of them a liar.