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Tuesday, December 30, 2008
Pat Buchanan :: Townhall.com Columnist
Bush, Obama and the Gaza Blit
by Pat Buchanan
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Unwilling to control its fighters, who fired scores of missiles into Israel at the end of their six-month ceasefire, Hamas gave Israel the provocation it needed to deliver a savage blow to the Palestinian enclave in Gaza.

Saturday was the bloodiest day in the history of the Palestinian people since being driven from their homes in the War of 1948. One thousand were killed or wounded, as the Israeli Air Force conducted over a hundred strikes -- on graduation ceremonies for Hamas fighters, police stations and storage sites for rockets.

About Israel's right and duty to defend its border towns, there is no dispute. When Hamas permits Gaza to be used as a launch pad for rockets, it must expect retaliation. Nor can Hamas claim some right to dictate the limits of that retaliation.

Yet the wisdom of so savage a retribution for rockets that killed not one Israeli is open to question. And crass Israeli politics seems to be behind this premeditated and planned blitz.

With Likud's hawkish "Bibi" Netanyahu ahead in the polls for the Feb. 10 election, Defense Minister Ehud Barak, Labor's candidate, had to show that he, too, could be ruthless with Hamas.

Kadima Party candidate and Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni has an even greater need than the highly decorated Barak to show toughness. Prime Minister Ehud Olmert, departing in scandal, wants to exit in a blaze of glory, to blot out the memory of a botched war against Hezbollah that he launched in the summer of 2006.

However, while Israel's politicians all seem to have a stake in these devastating strikes, Israel herself will pay the price.

Given the casualty toll, over 300 dead and 1,300 wounded as of this writing, Hamas will have to exact its pound of flesh. The Hamas wing that seeks renewed war with Israel will now shout into silence the wing working with Egypt's President Hosni Mubarak on a new ceasefire.

The moderate Palestinian Mahmoud Abbas, who has been talking to Israel, testifying to her good faith, has been made to appear the puppet and fool. A new intifada spreading to the West Bank, with suicide attacks inside Israel, is now possible.

Moderate Arabs, who have recognized Israel or backed peace, will now be seen by the Arab street as appeasers impotent to stop the public suffering of the Palestinian people.

As for President Bush's hopes of midwifing a peace that would create a Palestinian state, they are as dead as the Annapolis process he set in train. In advancing peace in the Middle East, Bush's eight-year record is now a near-absolute failure.

For four years, Bush refused to talk to Yasir Arafat, though Bill Clinton had negotiated with him, as had four Israeli prime ministers, two of who shared a Nobel Prize with Arafat. In his second term, Bush, after insisting Hamas be included in free elections in Palestine, refused to recognize Hamas when it won those elections.

Arafat was a terrorist and Hamas is a terrorist organization, declared Bush, and we don't negotiate with terrorists. Yet, Bush de-listed Libya as a state sponsor of terror and sent Condi Rice to chat up Col. Gadhafi, though Gadhafi still has on his hands the blood of scores of American school kids from the Lockerbie massacre of 1989 that Libya and Gadhafi engineered

For eight years, like the "dummy" in a hand of bridge, Bush has sat mute as his Israeli partner, Sharon or Olmert, played America's cards as well as their own. The Bush response to Saturday's carnage, as anticipated, was to blame Hamas for causing it and urge Israelis to be careful about civilian casualties as they go about their reprisals.

Whatever Israel decides, we support. For eight years that has been the most reliable guide to U.S. Middle East policy.

And Barack Obama? Forty-eight hours after the Israeli blitz began, he and his national security team remain silent.

Hopefully, Obama will bring with him a new Mideast policy, one made in the U.S.A., for the U.S.A. Hopefully, just as Israel has its private links to Syria through Turkey, to Hamas through Egypt and to Hezbollah, Obama will establish independent U.S. channels to all three, and adopt a separate U.S. policy toward all three, as Israel does.

While the United States must support Israel's right to defend her towns and to strike bases from which Israelis are being attacked, Obama should denounce the collective punishment of 1.5 million Palestinians in Gaza, by Israel's cutting off their electricity in the dead of winter and denying them the food and medicine many need to survive.

For us to remain silent in the face of this comports neither with our interests or our values. Israel's policy of withholding from the weak and innocent of Gaza, women and children, the necessities of life, to punish the guilty who rule at the point of a gun, is a policy that Obama should declare the United States will no longer support with tax dollars.

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About The Author
Pat Buchanan is a founding editor of The American Conservative magazine, and the author of many books including State of Emergency: The Third World Invasion and Conquest of America .
 
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©Creators Syndicate
.....................
Pat, some of your writing is very good, it's a shame though you're a Jew hating propagandist.

“Saturday was the bloodiest day in the history of the Palestinian people since being driven from their homes in the War of 1948.”

The palestinians were never driven from their homes. And we don't make matzoa with the blood of palestinian children.

From the book Time Immemorial..............

"Prior to the 1948 war Arab leaders invited Arabs in Israel to leave and come to the borders while the Arab armies destroy the Jews. The Arabs were convinced it would be a slaughter, and told the Arabs in Israel to flee at once; it was to be in their best interest. The Arabs obviously had it backwards on who would get slaughtered.

According to a report by the Arab sponsored Institute for Palestine Studies in Beirut had these findings: "The majority of Arab refugees in 1948 were not expelled, and 68% left without seeing an Israeli soldier".

Estimates range from 430,000 to 650,000 of Arabs who fled Israel due to Arab propaganda.

In 1958, former director of UNRWA Ralph Galloway declared angrily while in Jordan: "The Arab states do not want to solve the refugee problem. They want to keep it an open sore, as an affront to the United Nations, and as a weapon against Israel. Arab leaders do not give a damn whether Arab refugees live or die."

Arab leader King Hussein 1960: "Since 1948 Arab leaders have approached the Palestine problem in an irresponsible manner....They have used the Palestine people for selfish political purposes. This is ridiculous and, I could say, even criminal".

A very well written piece, BUT
I don't agree with very much of it!! Arafat was a scoundrel and the world is better off without him.. I have no particular Love for Israel but I ABSOLUTELY support their right to exist and cannot deny right to defend themselves..As a Retired Military person who was actively involved in 3 years worth of Vietnam I'm sure I contributed to more than a little "Collateral"
Damage..Innocents Get Killed In War!! Much better for all concerned to STOP DOING IT!!

A very well written piece, BUT
I don't agree with very much of it!! Arafat was a scoundrel and the world is better off without him.. I have no particular Love for Israel but I ABSOLUTELY support their right to exist and cannot deny right to defend themselves..As a Retired Military person who was actively involved in 3 years worth of Vietnam I'm sure I contributed to more than a little "Collateral"
Damage..Innocents Get Killed In War!! Much better for all concerned to STOP DOING IT!!

The Great Satan
Pat used to be of sound mind but he has let his hatred of Bush get the better of him.

One of the worst cases of sour grapes I have ever seen.

Our foreign aid supports such.
Some Russians are saying US is going to be no more. Well we are not dying however with the billions US has given to the world, it is no wonder we are flat broke.

No one in Congress is mentioning re-evaluating our generous foreign aid, nor has the Obama camp. Come on, let us get real. Pat, maybe you can go after this. We are paying for those planes and tanks and ammo Isreal is using.

The 'arab street'
... consists of sixteen-year-olds -- unschooled, unemployed, bomb-throwing haters! Who cares what it thinks! Get out the brooms!

'Negotiate' with Arafat? Please! Where has your head been for forty years, Buchanan?

The failure in the Mid-east is neither with Bush nor with Israel -- and it is a great deceit to so imply. The blood of the innocent in Gaza is on the hands of Hamas & every fanatic who employs or advocates violence in order to eradicate Israel.

Israel has displayed remarkable restraint. What follows now is on the Palestinians. Whether because of the political season or no. Enough is enough.

Israel's Blitz
Buchanan frets over whether Israel will end this 'successfully.' We have already witnessed what happens when 'peace negotions' result in Israel surrendering land to its enemies. They simply use it as a pad to launch more rockets into Israel.
To ensure that this blitz ends 'successfully,' Israel needs to ruthlessly pursue terrorists, even if this means decimating 'palestine.' There is no state of palestine. There never was. The few people who were displaced when Israel legally became a nation should have been absorbed and comforted by their 'arab brothers' in Egypt, Jordan, Syria and the rest of the arab world. Instead, they have been comforted by being kept ignorant and impoverished, full of hate and only able to produce murderous bloodshed on innocent Israeli civilians.
As harsh as it may seem, Israel needs to let loose the dogs of war until there is no one left to attack them in Gaza.

Wikipedia?
It's Wikipedia that is discredited as a source. It's Liberal (again the Nazi/Commie alliance) and reports from that trashy perspective.

RealCon
...That pathetic book has been discredited and is no longer used as a source of propaganda.

Ah yes, the reasoned criticism of Chomsky and Finkelstein make it into Wikipedia. Gag.



Wikipedia
Chomsky does not even make it in the Liberal drive by media. Nor are his comments reasonable.

I'm being dealt a strawman.

How to solve the problem
of War between the Arabs and Jews in the ME? Look to history's examples. What recent war ended fairly satisfactorily, with no significant ongoing antagonism between the previous foes? WWII, of course. The armed conflict took place over only 6 years. Chances of a re-match are nil. Quite a difference from WWI. In fact, most historians believe WWII was a continuation of WWI, which settled nothing. Wars are "won" and fighting ceases permanently when both sides are convinced there is nothing to gain from further violence. This usually requires 2 things. First a crushing punishing and complete defeat, leaving one of the foes in complete power. Second, education or elimination of the defeated foe. Rome vs. Cathage (Punic war?) showed the way. A crushing defeat, and elimination of the foe. WWII used a crushing defeat, and education of the losers through non-nonsense occupation which established achievable goals of a decent living for the losers. I doubt Israel alone can achieve these things. Therefore the Arab/Israeli war will be ended only by Israel's defeat, or by Arab defeat by a coalition of Israel and allies.

PAT DOES NOT HATE THE JEWS.
He simply wants them to attack Gaza by means that will not force them to have to obliterate the rest of the Arab world eventually. That is not an unreasonable request nor is it antisemitic.

Bush, Obama and the Gaza Blit
Too many conflicting statements, first, Israel has a right to defend itself then there shouldn't be collateral damage, then it's Bush's fault and he failed. The only failure is that Israel has been discouraged and effectively stopped from defending itself since 1948. The threats are clear, few if any besides the U.S. have supported Israel; yet the threat of losing that support has kept Israel restrained from rightfully defending itself. There are no half measures against an aggressive continuing attack from people who have vowed to eradicate the people of another nation, especially one that has continued since 1948. What kind of action should a nation take when they are bombarded by rockets and threatened with annialation. Germany bombarded England, Japan attacked Pearl Harbor, Germany vowed to eradicate the Jews. How soon we forget how deadly an aggressive hating group can be. When does it end? by talking? since 1948? Wake up, put youself in their shoes, what does a nation do when attacked on its' home soil? Beg them to stop? Oh, let's talk about it...Oh, maybe we can give you some billions in aid to stop..? What would Russia do? the United States? any country? So what if it was only one or two or three Israeli soldiers or civilians? Does it have to equal in numbers to justify defending your citizens and your homesoil? What does it take to get through thick stick in the sand heads that you can't make peace with terrorists??

America First
Arabs second.

Israel not at all.

I think that about sums up the America Firsters attitude.

==============

Will I ever be glad when the world is off the oil standard.

Neville Chamberlain
You're really losing it Pat. I guess you're making a living and (apparently) that's all that matters. I really love this concept of a "commensurate" response. What nonsense!

Foreign Policy And Buchanan = F Minus.

The Isolationist Party of America and Pat Buchanan. He serves as President, Vice President, Sec/Tres, Sergeant of Arms and Janitor.

What can one say?

His insane book which insulted the Greatest Generation and their victory in WW II.

His endless, embarrassing appearances on MSNBC.

His nutty foreign policy views.

It all adds up to one thing. Zero credibility.

Some observations.
First, Israel chose to pursue this course in the waning days of the Bush administration.

That is no accident.

Olmert knows Bush will back Israel unconditionally, and Bush probably gave permission to Olmert prior to the attacks.

Israelis were not confident an Obama administration would be as compliant as Bush...so they attacked before Obama gets sworn in.

Second, this Israeli response, or attack, will further divide the Arab and Muslim masses from their governments.

By in large, these governments have been critical of Hamas, while their peoples have been strongly supportive of the organization.

So this will only destablize the entire area..putting at risk those governments.

Did Israel have any choice?

Probably not. She has repeatedly been provoked and attacked by Hamas rockets and bombs.

The creation of modernday Israel in 1948 by the U.N., out of land that most Arabs regarded as theirs, is and will continue to be a festering sore, a rallying point and source of hatred for a demographically very young and growing Arab/Muslim population.

I agree with Buchanan here.

It is not anti-Israeli to hope Obama has the judgment to preside over a new Mideast policy..one made in the U.S.A.

Yes, Israel is our ally.

But that does not mean we unwaveringly support anything she does.

We need a new approach to this issue.

Re: The Real inhabitants!!!
Lets get something perfectly clear the people who have every right to populate that area is Isreal, and these arab folks came later so the real problem to issue is that the arabs think they have a right to that land when IN FACT that they really do not, so when someone in this great land says that the poor arabs are being mistreated that my friends is CRAP, they have no right being there in the first place!!!!

Hamas=Destruction of Israel
"Unwilling to control its fighters, who fired scores of missiles into Israel..."
From the first sentence you reveal your bias.
Hamas is the ones ordering the firing of these missiles & firing them. It's not a matter of renegade solitary fighters or an unwillingness to control them.

You've lost your marbles Pat
Along with your insults to our vets in WW 2, now this garbage? What would the USA do if we were SHELLED by Mexico or Canada or even little Cuba? Commensurate reponse? Not likely. Please simply retire for the sake of all that is sane.

Pat is further off the rails than usual
He is obviously on the bandwagon of those who think Jewish retaliation is out of proportion to the provocation. Ask any member of the USMC what proper retaliation towards your enemy is.

Peace is achieved when one side is beaten into submission by the other. The refugees (outcasts) in Gaza have no desire or interest in appeasement, land for peace or anything other than the complete obliteration of Israel. You can't negotiate with such a mindset, any more than the US can negotiate with Al Qaeda or the Toweliban.

Since Palestinians are unwilling to lay down their arms and put aside their hatred instilled from birth, the only one solution for the Jews is the wipe them out.

If the rest of the mealy mouth Arabs, who have used and exacerbated conditions in Gaza for their own political advantage, don't like it, they can line up on Israel's borders and receive their reward also.

It is suicide for anyone to think they can sit down with extremists of the Arab persuasion (at least 130 million). They are the ultimate duplicitous liars, cheats, thieves, murderers, and generally seethe with hatred so poisonous, it can't be neutralized. The only good jihadist is a dead one.

Pat, Which Is It?
"About Israel's right and duty to defend its border towns, there is no dispute."
"Yet the wisdom of so savage a retribution for rockets that killed not one Israeli is open to question. And crass Israeli politics seems to be behind this premeditated and planned blitz." The two Pat comments make no sense. Complete opposites in this case -- "there is no dispute" and "crass Israeli politics"

Casuality totals
I totally agree with you Pat; the way the Israelies should have justified this is by taking their school children out of the shelters and exposing them to Hamas' rockets. Failing that, perhaps they should simply execute a few thousand of their own people just to make this fight fair.

Why does
Town hall continue to put this guys articles on this site?
If you Bucc lived in a small nation the size of New Jersy which was under the danger of rockets being launched against you every day, what would you do? Most likely dig a hole deep enough to be safe? Or would you leave the nation for some small island somewhere?
Israel has the right to stop these attacks. What ever it takes. As for me, I would push these moslem dickies into the Med. I would also tell the rest of the Arab world, "Dnn't get involved, If you do I will nuke your major cities. Plain and simple. Oh, by the way, I would have done that two years ago during the conflict with Hezbola.
If you give these donkeys an inch they will think you are weak and will take a mile.
I say, go get em Israel.

I am actually quite surprised
that Israel has shown such restraint over the years.
Surrounded by enemies that have sworn to destroy them, that hate them and attack innocent people as they go about their daily lives, they still attempt to live in peace with these animals who teach their children to hate Jews while still in diapers.

Israel has the capacity to destroy the capitol cities of every arab country in one stroke, perhaps it's time to do so if they do not agree to make a lasting peace.

A Result of Energy Policy
That everything happening in the Middle East is so important to us is a result of an incredibly stupid energy policy that restricts production within our nation and as a result makes energy supplies in that region more important. Higher oil prices sends money to people that hate us and lower production here restricts our ability to respond when the a**holes start acting up.

Most likely what has happened is the masters in the oil producing nations are hurting due to the drop in oil prices and have ordered Hamas to attack Israel to raise regional tensions and with that oil prices. So far it has worked. As long as the Iranians can make more money a few thousand dead Palestinians is a small price.

Were I an Arab oil shiek I would be sending checks to organizations such as the Sierra Club. They are doing Allah's work in keeping us beholding to the murdering jihadists.

Seawolf

Killing, 360 at this time, people pretty much indiscriminately, and wounds over a thousand, and at the same time walling off Gaza to starve them off, "RESTRAINT" really isn't the word I'd use. Of the 222 targets, they bombed a university, a church, and exit holes for fleeing refugees, the whole country, they assure us is Hamas infiltrated.

Mr. Buchanan,

Could I please have your home address?

I'd like to indiscriminately launch some mortars and rockets at your domicile and see how much restraint you show.

Well worth reading article.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/dec/29/gaza-ha mas-israel

"The democratically elected Hamas government was targeted for destruction from the day it won the elections in 2006. The world told the Palestinians that they cannot have democracy, as if the goal was to radicalise them further and as if that would not have a consequence. Israel claims it is targeting Hamas's military forces. This is not true. It is targeting Palestinian police forces and killing them, including some such as the chief of police, Tawfiq Jaber, who was actually a former Fatah official who stayed on in his post after Hamas took control of Gaza. What will happen to a society with no security forces? What do the Israelis expect to happen when forces more radical than Hamas gain power?"

No moderate muslims
Bush at least got it right about the threat of Jihad. We're only fooling ourselves if we think there are moderate muslims who will save us.

Well worth reading article.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/dec/29/gaza-ha mas-israel

"The democratically elected Hamas government was targeted for destruction from the day it won the elections in 2006. The world told the Palestinians that they cannot have democracy, as if the goal was to radicalise them further and as if that would not have a consequence. Israel claims it is targeting Hamas's military forces. This is not true. It is targeting Palestinian police forces and killing them, including some such as the chief of police, Tawfiq Jaber, who was actually a former Fatah official who stayed on in his post after Hamas took control of Gaza. What will happen to a society with no security forces? What do the Israelis expect to happen when forces more radical than Hamas gain power?"

Mike

The Muslim country Egypt is on Israelis side on this.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/art icle5404501.ece

Pat, you are insane...misguided at best.
It is so easy to voice opinions such as your own, Pat, when you are living in luxery and safety...you can be all PC and theoretical.

But Israel has been forced to remain a war zone since 1948 because even its allies tie its hands--calling for "restraint."

Do you EVER hear Hammas calling on its members to have "restraint?" If they had nuclear weapons, they would blow Israel out of the water in a minute. Not even. Palestinians are fed hatred with their infant formula.

Hammas is a terrorist organization, and MUST be decimated for the safety of Israel and to establish peace in the Middle East. If the Palestinians can't and/or won't cease their death and destruction of Israel agenda, then they must be treated like the terrorists they are.

Casualties of the innocent are always to be mourned. But I question how innocent the vast majority of adult Palestinians are--after all, they continue to vote Hammas into power and teach their children to hate. And Hammas uses what "innocents" there are as a human shield. It's disgusting. The blood is fully on Hammas' hands when they use women and children in this manner.

I do not like war. But unfortunately it is necessary to keep peace in our fallen world.

There is so much more to say, but I'll stop here...

Muslim Support?
Not the Arab world.

"The pointedly muted response to the Israeli aerial onslaught has underscored the extent to which Hamas has become isolated within the Arab and wider Muslim world.
In fact, many of the protests by Palestinians and their supporters worldwide have centered on the inaction of Arab governments and their apparent willingness to see Hamas take a serious hit.

In an extraordinary appeal to Arab and Muslim media, a somewhat wooden and nervous spokesman for Hamas Gaza leader Ismail Haniyeh Sunday took to the airwaves to explicitly beg Arabic-language and Islamic world news outlets to repeatedly broadcast scenes of horror in the Strip ? a request that has clearly never before been at all necessary. "

http://haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1050932.html

.

Go on loving on Obama Pat
Hamas never ceased doing anything in the
'cease' fire.

You said "When Hamas permits Gaza to be used as a launch pad for rockets, it must expect retaliation."

Hizbollah used the Golan for the exact same
purpose.

Arafat and a Nobel Peace Prize! What a joke.
On you, on the world.

When have you been there Pat? Let me tell
you something about your "Arab streets" you
refer to....all of the Arabs in the other
countries see the 'Palestinians' as the "bad
little brothers".

The family with the uncontrollable black
sheep. They don't want them either.

To taft
So tired of your antisemetic drivel, you and buchanan must be soul mates.

You spew inaccuracies and back them up with liberal writers who lack any demonstrable objectivity. The author of your linked guardian article, Nir Rosen, is an Iranian-American who has soft peddled the taliban to the extent that he was invited to be embedded with them. In his subsequent articles about that experience, he gushed even more about the noble taliban than the MSM did about the "tingle" Obama gave them.

Israel andf Gaza Blit
Pat, you are starting to lose it. You rail against Bush for not talking to Arafat and praise Bill Clinton for negotiating with Arafat. Where did Clinmton's talks get Israel, I'll tell you, it got them a suicide bomber blowing up innocent people every day. Clinton's talks did nothing, absolutely nothing. When Bush was elected president he said that Israel had a right to defend itself and did not object to Israel building the wall. Since then suicide bombers have disappeared. Then Israel gave up the Gaza stripp and what did they get in return, a daily dose of bombing. The Palestinians have always been the problem there and until they get rid of the terrorists there will never be peace. And Pat, stop blaming Bush for everything. In this case Clinton never did anything to promote peace in the middle east. Afafat was at the White House so often he had a mail box there, Clinton clearly supported the wrong guy. The Palestinians have had enough chances to secure land and promote peace, but the hatred for Israel will never let that happe.

Propaganda worthy of Big Brother
... by Israel's cutting off their electricity in the dead of winter ...
---
"Dead of winter???"

Today's weather in Gaza: http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/5day.shtml?world=2190&links

A high of 63 degrees, a low of 52. Up here in New England, we think about hitting the beach in weather like that. Sure, Thursday's low will be 36, but that's the point we New Englanders start thinking about putting on a sweater or maybe an extra blanket.

Here's a photo taken at an Israeli beach on December 23:

http://flickr.com/photos/54465165@N00/331294772/

Maybe Pat doesn't know about the metric system, and thinks that "17 degrees" is bitter cold.

As for "savage retaliation" - the British and Americans incinerated a city, killing up to 40,000 people, in retaliation for similar indiscriminate rocket attacks - numbering in the thousands, just as in Israel - against civilian targets - just as in Israel - by the Germans. You want to talk about "savage?"

In comparison to the firebombing of Dresden, Israel's surgical strikes against military targets in Gaza with minimal collateral damage is a game of pat-a-cake.

Oh goodie....
Pat's writing on Israel again! Here come the Zionazis and terror apologists now to duke it out. Grab your popcorn and settle in, folks -- this is gonna be fun!

O lady
Where is your source or proof that Rosen said anything pro-Taliban?
And he's an Israeli-American. The facts are, anway, the Iranians hate the Taliban and helped us kill them in 03.



mv


"As for "savage retaliation" - the British and Americans incinerated a city, killing up to 40,000 people, in retaliation for similar indiscriminate rocket attacks - numbering in the thousands, just as in Israel - against civilian targets - just as in Israel - by the Germans. You want to talk about "savage?"

Are you nuts?

.

Pat, thankfully
the American people were not dumb enough to vote you into any position of responsibility. I guess we hadn't been dumbed down quite enough yet. However, by the time Obama came along.......

By the way, just where are all these moderate Arabs I keep hearing about?

The Israelis are in the process of conducting the only kind of diplomacy that Arabs understand.

...calling all Multi-Culturalists
When Muslim children are today monolithically indoctrinated to die martyrs to the divine cause of promoting Islam's historically ruthless conquest and butchery of the infidel, I love hearing how all cultures are equally worthy, just "different." Oprah's magnanimous statement "All men have the same heart" logically must apply to 17th century slave traders too, right? What a bubble people create to blind themselves to hideous inhumanity - and do so in the spineless name of being non-judgmental.

Isreal ......
What did you want Israel to do,Pat?
Hold hands and sing 'Cumbaya'
You are an ignoramus.

Clinton, Arafat and Bush

"Referring to President Clinton’s efforts to make peace between the Israelis and the Palestinians, Bush declares:

“Clinton overreached, and it all fell apart. That’s why we’re in trouble. If the two sides don’t want peace, there’s no way we can force them. I don’t see much we can do over there at this point. I think it’s time to pull out of the situation.… We’re going to correct the imbalance of the previous administration on the Mideast conflict. We’re going to tilt it back towards Israel.”

His view is that the Israeli government, currently headed by Ariel Sharon, should be left alone to deal as it sees fit with the Palestinians. “I’m not going to go by past reputations when it comes to Sharon. I’m going to take him at face value. We’ll work on a relationship based on how things go.” Justifying his position, he recalls a recent trip he took to Israel with the Republican Jewish Coalition.

“We flew over the Palestinian camps. Looked real bad down there.… I don’t see much we can do over there at this point.” Secretary of State Colin Powell, surprised by Bush’s intended policy towards the 50-year old Israeli-Palestinian conflict, objects.

According to Secretary of the Treasury Paul O’Neil, Powell “stresse[s] that a pullback by the United States would unleash Sharon and the Israeli army.” When Powell warns the president that the “consequences of that [policy] could be dire, especially for the Palestinians,” Bush shrugs. “Sometimes a show of strength by one side can really clarify things,” he suggests.

Boomer

Egypt, an Arab country, is on Israelis side.

Gaza
The so-called "Palestinian people" shelter, feed, encourage, and help arm the palestinian fighters, also known as terrorists. They are not a nation and they have no rights to anything as long as they are trying to destoy Israel. Israel must destroy the palestinians and hope that Obama does not turn out to be a "let's all have a group hug" kind of guy. The current administration and the next ought to make it very clear in allways that Israel is our ally and that the US will do all in its power to protect it from the palestinians and all other islamic terrorists.

Suzanne

Your fine with them killing hundreds of people and wounding thousands, even after walling them off and starving them? Why?

MAKE THEM BLEED!
Hama's eternal jihad against the Jewish State of Israel is non-negotiable and absolute. As Ehud Barak said: "This is a war to the death." Unfortunately, the only reasonable policy left for Israel in dealing with Hamas is the following: MAKE THEM BLEED UNTIL THEY CRY FOR PEACE! AND IF THEY CRY NOT LET THEM BLEED TO DEATH!

Gaza
The so-called "Palestinian people" shelter, feed, encourage, and help arm the palestinian fighters, also known as terrorists. They are not a nation and they have no rights to anything as long as they are trying to destoy Israel. Israel must destroy the palestinians and hope that Obama does not turn out to be a "let's all have a group hug" kind of guy. The current administration and the next ought to make it very clear in allways that Israel is our ally and that the US will do all in its power to protect it from the palestinians and all other islamic terrorists.

ApolloSpeaks

Do you care that dozens of children have been killed and wounded now?

Are we a Christian nation or not, it is becoming clearly NOT.

So ye sow, so shall ye reap...
The Palestinians held an election. Hamas won then promptly and violently drove it's more "moderate" rival from the Gaza Strip.

The Palestinians who voted for Hamas, knew that it was committed to the destruction of Israel and that it's leaders would wage jihad against the Jews.

By allowing their elected government to wage war against Israel, they bear full responsibility for what ever follows.

The Palestinian people are in charge of their own destiny. If they suffer for their poor decisions, tough luck. Rather than complain about Israel, maybe they should have held a few marches to protest their government's decision to fire mortars and rockets into their peaceful neighbor.

They voted for war and that's what they got.


Taft
"...they bombed a university, a church, and exit holes for fleeing refugees..."

You forgot to mention that the university is a bomb-building development laboratory and factory, and the churches are hate schools whose main mission is to indoctrinate their children to lifelong jihad. http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2008/12/022419.php (which contains other links)

Hamas



"Israel and Hamas may currently be locked in deadly combat, but, according to several current and former U.S. intelligence officials, beginning in the late 1970s, Tel Aviv gave direct and indirect financial aid to Hamas over a period of years.

Israel "aided Hamas directly -- the Israelis wanted to use it as a counterbalance to the PLO (Palestinian Liberation Organization)," said Tony Cordesman, Middle East analyst for the Center for Strategic Studies.

Israel's support for Hamas "was a direct attempt to divide and dilute support for a strong, secular PLO by using a competing religious alternative," said a former senior CIA official.

Taft: Look up JIHAD and maybe DHIMMITUDE
Check out for yourself the meaning of these terms and their implementation throughout Islam's history. To get really good jihadists, ya gotta indoctrinate hatred; to get really firey hatred, ya gotta get a good boogyman - Israel! Perfect!

Trice

I'm not about to, or ever had, say that the Palestinians are angels here, or that the hatred taught their kids isn't despicable. Its a long going civil war, and atrocities have taken place, back and forth, for a very long time. However, using that logic, and apparently Israel is too, they can justify killing all the Palestinians, or as one blogger yesterday called them "animals."

Hamas, not Israel, Killed the Civilians
Hold the real murderers accountable. If a man robs a bank, hides behind a hostage during the gunfight, and a policeman's bullet kills the hostage, the robber has committed homicide, not the cop. It is the felony murder law, and has an international law counterpart.

Those of you, like Buchannan, who feel Israel is to blame, are behaving the way Hamas wants you to.

Israel should defend herself
But if it is true that the severity of Israel's attacks were to score political points for upcoming elections, that is unforgivable.

Taft:
Would you be as quick to weep over dead children if they were Israeli blown up in pizza parlor, or at school, or at a bus stop, or at party, or anywhere else? Or do you reserve your tears only for the Palestinians?

Irreconcilable Differences

The Palestinians are a pawn in the game of the Arab politics of the region. Having mistakenly assumed that their armies could drive Israel out, they have continued to bitterly contest what they lost by refusing to participate in any resolution of the issue of the Palestinians. Instead, they arm them and support them, in the hopes, that at some point in the future, the Palestinians can do what the Arab armies failed to do in 1948, which is eventually destroy Israel.

There is no point in discussing this issue in terms of the positions of each incoming and new administration. Eisenhower, Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, Carter, Reagan, Clinton and Bush - all tried, and none succeeded.

The Isaeli's can punish the Palestinians in order to get at Hamas. But the history of the region clearly demonstrates that all that will transpire is a short window of a lower level of violence, followed by a higher level of violence.


Robert
In the creation of the Israel in 1947, every Arab was against it and went to war to stop it. Times change though, and now Egypt is actually on Israelis side and Jordan is anti-Hamas. Israel has every reason to be on guard, but this heavy handed action, as Pat said, because an Israeli election is coming up, is not just. No doubt, thousands, maybe millions of new radicals have been born the last few days in the world, and that is something we can do without.

Cont'd.
The heart of this war - after all, is not in Palestine, but in the minds and mosques of the surrounding Arab states. There is a reason that they do not afford "formal" recognition to Israel. And that reason is that they will not accept her claim to that strip of land, and will fight this battle for a 100, or indeed, 1000 years. The Crusades lasted from 1096 to 1270. There were eight of them and eventually, they failed to keep Jerusalem in the hands of Christians.

That part of the world is Islamic. Israel, in turn, is surrounded and her population is not even 1/40th of those on her borders. Eventually, the surrounding Arab states believe that they will simply overwhelm Israel. As they did the Crusaders.

The West is committed to keeping Israel alive - and as long as it is - there will be no peace.

And there is absolutely nothing we can do about it. Their position - and they will not change it, is that Israel must be destoyed, and ours is the opposite. These positions cannot be reconciled. So, there is only, and always, a continuation of war.

This is strictly a Christian - Islamic War. And Israel is the focal point.

And short of annihalating the Palestinians in both Gaza and Lebanon, and crushing and killing substantial elements of the Syrians and the Iranian's - this is and will always be an endless war. Obama, like Bush, and like the rest, will accomplish nothing because in the end, there is no common ground.

ExRCSD Deput

But isn't that exactly what's going to now happen. The leaders of Hamas, holed up underground, have called on suicide bombers to revenge this action, and Iran and Iraq have stated they must take action. I imagine the rich Israelis are already planning a few years sabbatical in London or New York.

Ok, Taft...
Who is saying that violence and response to violence is kind? But are you positing an equivalence between the values of Israel and those of Palestinian Muslims? One side values life, learning, freedom, art, culture, and the other side values hatred, monolithic thought, and conquest. It is, of course, ironic that to have virtue prevail against hate requires at least the exercise of some of the characteristics of hate in the act of virtue's opposition: or maybe you know another way? I don't.

Pat is in it for the money
I beleive that Pat is enjoying his well paid life at MSNBC as a Bush (and Israel) basher. I do not think he hates President Bush, I think he feels it is more lucrative, at this time, to side with the liberal leftists and bash the President. I think Pat is a hired mouth and will say whatever he needs to, to make money.

The sad thing is, the conservatives also give him a venue to deride the President and other Republicans.

The Israel -- Arab confrontations began in earnest in 1948 (60 years ago) and according to Pat, it is President Bush's fault. What nonsense. Every President for the past 60 years has had exactely the same result -- a continuing war between Israel and the Palestine.


What took so long?
The Israelis can't go to the store w/o being bombed by Hamas, it's seems I recall seeing Jewish children die in the streets due to Hamas. They were forced to give up their homes on the Gaza Strip, evicted by their own forces and grab -the- ankles politicians too weak to defend their own people. I've been wondering what took the Jews so long to retaliate. Innocent Palestinian children? They literally take their baby pictures with machine guns in their hands and send them to hate spouting muslim schools...even their cartoons promote killing Jews. We have a common enemy in Hamas.

reality
What would anybody do if they were constantly being attacked,even though they were in a treaty of sorts. Hamas never stopped shooting rockets into Iseral, just because they arn't very deadly doen't mean that they don't do damage. Why the palestine people haven't tried to make a life with out such hate for the Jew,they have wasted all these years and what do they have. Iseral has put up with their constant attacks and than when they fight back, are accused of doing so much damage.Who started it? Too bad Hamas isn't capable of doing more damage, maybe than the liberal media would see a different side of this mess.Iseral has a right to protect its population.

Redlac
It is sad to say , but you are 100% correct .It seems every angle has been tried and subsequently failed . Do you think the Hispanics would take up arms if we moved Israel to Arizona or New Mexico ?

Robert

"..But are you positing an equivalence between the values of Israel and those of Palestinian Muslims? "

I honestly don't know how to answer that. There are good Palestinians, and those who offer more than hate. Carter achieved some success with Egypt, and, with time, it may be possible with the Palestinians. Maybe not, and my grand children will be reading about suicide bombers and revenge killings.

There is no measured response
It is sick that there are actually people that believe that Israel should be "measured" in its response to daily rocket attack. These people don't understand the situation that Israel finds herself and what's worse, they don't care. They don't mind it when Israel is attacked and Jews are killed. They feel uncomfortable and have a deep seeded discomfort when Jews fight back. How dare them!! This is a fight for survival and when your survival is at the center of it all, anyone would fight and fight like hell. So to all the Israeli and Jew haters out there: Get used to it because Israel will fight to the bloody end before they give up their little strip of land! It's so terrible isn't it? Jews have a little strip of land that they call their own. How horrible, how tragic!!! Oh the injustice of it all.

When is enough enough?
Israel has been plagued by the constant and consistent attacks by the Palestineans for 60 years, day in and day out. They have responded with restraint (at our request) with, what you called, measured responses.

The Palestineans have a country, actually several (Jordan, Syria, Lebanon etc.). If they don't want to live there, find somewhere else. (I hear France and Germany is nice.)

The Israelis are fighting our enemies (and the world's). They are good at it. Let them go for it while they have the U.S. as an ally. (Who knows where they will be after 1/20/09?)

If the the Palestineans choose Hamas and jihadism as their vehicle of choice, let them take the ride. When are we going to finally remove this cancer from civilization's backside instead of trying to quell its ever destructive invasion with a little more than aspirin?

If Iran wants to go nuclear, fine. Nuk'em til they glow and shoot them in the dark. At some point (and that should be/is now!) ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!!

Buchanan never mentioned the most
critical factor. The Gaza Strip is important to Iran because it is the easiest way into Israel for troops arriving by sea. Does anyone think that Israel is dumb enough not to have taken that factor into account?

The biggest mistake Israel made was in giving that land back. If I were an Israeli, I wouldn't wait around for a missile to kill a country man in order to justify an attack.

Mr. Buchanan, you are so full of it, your eyes are brown.

Anti-Semitic much?
Pat, back off. Hamas has plagued Israel for years and as of yesterday, there were deaths in Israel. According to the new reports that I have watched, "thousands' is a HUGE overstatement. Less than 400. Admittedly that is 400 too many, but as I tell my kids, Don't start a fight, but finish it. Seems to that is what Israel is doing.

Taft:
It's been happening for years. I just didn't see Palestinian apologists like you weeping for dead Israeli children.

Pat's an IDIOT ... AGAIN!
So Bush's Middle East policies are a complete failure ... as opposed to the rousing successes of all prior administrations? Pat carefully avoids making THAT comparison which destroys his Bush hatred-fevered argument totally! Actually, one can make a case that Bush has been the most successful ... Iraq is no longer a problem, Muammar has "voluntarily" dropped his nuke program, and the US has shown it can stick to a difficult, long-developing policy ... we may not be liked, but we damn well are respected in the Arab world!

How Long Would We Tolerate It?
If Mexico or Canada was protecting fanatics that launched rockets into the US and every now and then killed a few people how long would we tolerate it ... I hope not at all after the 2nd or 3rd rocket if the offending governments did nothing about it! If they were landing in Pat's front yard, he'd be screaming to do something ... really, Pat's an IDIOT!

Key is Quran
Pat, not once in your article did you mention the true motivation behind Hamas...nor their backers, jihad and Iran. Your article cannot be justified if you do not bring the sole reason Arabs and Jews do not get along because of the jihadist death cult that leads all middle-easterners to declare war on Israel. Shame on you. I thought you knew history well, go back and read "The Mind of Jihad" by Laurent Murawiec.

Omega

" Your article cannot be justified if you do not bring the sole reason Arabs and Jews do not get along because of the jihadist death cult that leads all middle-easterners to declare war on Israel. "

Hogwash. There are many Arab nations that oppose Hamas, like Jordan and Egypt and, as the Ottoman Empire showed, Muslims don't hate other groups like Jews or Christains.

The Prince of the Marshes: And Other Occupational Hazards of a Year In Iraq by Rory Stewart.

Of many interesting things the book talks about the author went to visit the Garden of Eden, a parking lot with one dead date palm tree, or so say the Iraqis.

Stewart in Afghanistan; three afghan strangers confront him

The three are still trying to digest this last remark when Stewart adds, "I am a follower of Jesus, whom the Koran considers a great prophet. May God's blessings be upon you." The men nod. "And to you too," they respond. Having disarmed them, Stewart takes his leave with Huey in tow.

Sigh
Another pundit who thinks this issue can be neatly boiled down to "Israel should show restraint".

No Sympathy
I don't understand the concern for the Gazans. Pat says: "Obama should denounce the collective punishment of 1.5 million Palestinians in Gaza, by Israel's cutting off their electricity ..." Would Pat have expected the US to provide electricity to Japan in 1944? It's not just a few terrorists who are at war with Israel, it's Gazastan. All 1.5 million of them are combatants and should be treated as such.

Taft, what you fail to understand
is these folks are animals and one does not negotiate with rabid dogs.
The palestinians are in the situation they are because of their arab bretheren.
They have been used to fight a proxy war against Israel for 60 years. No one else in the ME wants them.

The Israelis, like most other folks, just want to be left alone to live their lives in peace, when certain groups continue to disturb the rest of us it is time to simply annilate them and go on about our lives much as one would put down that rabid dog.

I'd start with that loonytune in Iran, better to get rid of one or two than a millions in a war.

Pat lost it years ago!
War is uncivilized, and it will always cause collateral damage, remember how the UK carpet bombed Germany? Why, Germany carpet bombed the UK, and my mother lost many friends and relatives during these attacks. If you pick a fight while attempting to steal property, and your nose is bloodied, do not cry about it, and play the victim.

If I legally purchase property from a bank, and the property is in foreclosure, I legally own the property, not the prior resident. Evidently, the UN believes this as well.

In 1948, the UN recognized and legitimized Israel. The Arab world refused to accept this, attacked, and has been attacking ever since.

Israel purchased 80% of the land from individual Arabs, and the Ottoman Empire. Arabs conducted numerous massacres against Jews, and expelled approximately 650,000 Jews from Arab lands with zero compensation.

Also, lose the ad hom attacks, I am a Deist, with zero affiliation with any religion. My support for Israel stems from a strong sense of justice, just as I supported the Civil Rights Movement, and the South African Embargo. (No, Israel is not an Apartheid state).

RealCon
Wiki is not a valid source.

Pat has it wrong - AGAIN!
Pat said, "Yet the wisdom of so savage a retribution for rockets that killed not one Israeli is open to question".

Oh gee, so Hamas should get a pass just because it's proven incompetent in the art of warfare? So under Pat's theory, if a guy tries to murder me by firing several bullets at me from his gun but is such a bad marksman that all of them miss me, he shouldn't face the prospect of spending many years of his life in prison for attempted murder because he proved to be an inept would-be murderer.

And besides, Pat's point no longer holds: Israeli civilians HAVE just been killed, in Beersheba.

Israel is now showing Hamas an aspect of warfare that it's long past due for Hamas to learn: one of the risks of initiating war on someone else, as Hamas has been doing with its rocket attacks on Israel, is that you might wind up getting back much worse than you give out.

How many Americans died on America soil from the actions of the Japanese and German governments during WW2? Obviously, a drop in the bucket compared to the numbers of THEIR people that died on THEIR soil from OUR war machine. So I guess Pat would be arguing that our response to Japan's attack on Pearl Harbor and Germany's subsequent declaration of war on us immediately afterward were unjustifiable. Oh, I forget, he basically DID make that argument in a recent book.

I have absolutely no sympathy for the Palestinians in Gaza. They've wanted war with Israel, they're getting it now: let's see how much they like it.

Also, one thing I don’t understand. The Palestinians claim they prize martyrdom: one faction of Fatah is called the Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigade. Well, now they’re getting the martyrdom they say they crave. Or is it only martyrdom if you actually take one or more infidels with you when you go?

There are good Palestinians...sure, but
"I honestly don't know how to answer that. There are good Palestinians, and those who offer more than hate." No doubt there are good Palestinians - that's part of the tragic problem. BUT the Palestinians AS A WHOLE elected a governing group whose purpose is explicitly the opposition (read: destruction, nothing less) of Israel. And that is not the "Palestinians' fault"? What, do we not believe 'democratic' decisions represent the majority feelings of the electorate? Read again Grissly Alan of 9:58am

aspacia:
Wiki is a reliable source if you're a lib. It changes facts and the truth on a daily basis as a lib would do.

StoneRock1
I agree, Pat definitely has a mouthful of sour grapes.

Above your PAYGRADE, Taft?
My Q: "..But are you positing an equivalence between the values of Israel and those of Palestinian Muslims? "

taft's A: "I honestly don't know how to answer that."

Really?

I believe, as I am sure Taft does, that God sees the equality of all men. Does Allah?

Pat and his Amen Corner
Ah, Pat. You can take Buchanan out of relevancy, but you can't take the anti-semite out of the irrelevant.

The Root
The bottom line here is the Palestinians hate the Israelis more than they love their own children. They will stab themselves in the butt to give the Israelis a bloody nose. As long as that is the situation there will be no peace.

The Palestinians could have their own country and would be getting massive aid from the Israelis if they would just stop shooting missiles at them. They would rather die than allow Israel to exist. OK.

No moderates; Arafat killed them all
Any PLO who evidenced anything like compromise or reason was tortured into straightening his(her, rarely) Muslim thinking or simply murdered.
Meanwhile, Arafat made off with maybe $2 or $3 billion in your money, mine, and idiots in Europe and left his *goyim* wife several $million, which the PLO didn't even protest.
If left alone by Clinton and the 90s administration's pipedreams of a Peace Nobelite, Arafat and his minions would have starved in Tunisia for a couple generations, but no, *Oslo* and the peaceniks brought Arafat back to have some internationally known persona to dally with. Arafat accommodated the dreamers with rock-throwing kids and women strapped with munitions.
Calling Abbas a moderate must have come to Pat while he was detoxing somewhere. The head of US News&WR just discovered Palestinian schools in W. Jerusalem teach hatred and jihad. He was shocked, shocked.
If Israel had the guts, she should nuke Gaza. And blast Iran's nuke preps now, while oil is down and Ahmadinejad is suffering budget crises. Nothing will stop the jihad and terror except killing it.

.........
-------That pathetic book has been discredited and is no longer used as a source of propaganda........RealFool-----

Idiotchild, the book has not been discredited. It's amusing how you leftist cockroaches can't refute any of the points in the book and are relegated to squealing "Zionist lies!"

But humor me moron and tell me which of the points I made are discredited.

Fact 1: "According to a report by the Arab sponsored Institute for Palestine Studies in Beirut had these findings: "The majority of Arab refugees in 1948 were not expelled, and 68% left without seeing an Israeli soldier".

Fact 2: ""Prior to the 1948 war Arab leaders invited Arabs in Israel to leave and come to the borders while the Arab armies destroy the Jews."

Fact 3: "In 1958, former director of UNRWA Ralph Galloway declared angrily while in Jordan: "The Arab states do not want to solve the refugee problem. They want to keep it an open sore, as an affront to the United Nations, and as a weapon against Israel. Arab leaders do not give a damn whether Arab refugees live or die."

Fact 4: "Arab leader King Hussein 1960: "Since 1948 Arab leaders have approached the Palestine problem in an irresponsible manner....They have used the Palestine people for selfish political purposes. This is ridiculous and, I could say, even criminal".

If America Was Attacked
If instead of Palestinians firing rockets into Israel, think what would happen if Mexico started firing rockets into the United States. Think about rockets being fired from Mexico into the United States, on a daily basis. What do you think the US response would be to such attacks? And whatever the US response is, say that the international community condemned whatever the US response is. Do you for a second believe that this country would listen to what they say, or would they act in their own self interest?

Invasion
"If Mexico or Canada was protecting fanatics that launched rockets into the US and every now and then killed a few people how long would we tolerate it ... I hope not at all after the 2nd or 3rd rocket if the offending governments did nothing about it! If they were landing in Pat's front yard, he'd be screaming to do something ... really, Pat's an IDIOT!'

Plese do not use Mexico in your analogy to this current situation. Mexico has orchastrated one of the greatest human invasions ever know upon our country without ever firing a shot, while our government remains completely impotent. There does not appear to be any political will or backbone to stop it.

What would you call 12-20 million Mexican citizens entering our country in violation of Federal immigration law? I call it an invasion.

Those comming here to seek a so called "better life" have also found time to rape, murder and otherwise harm countless of American citizens through their uncivilized, third world values, with not so much as a peep from our government.

So it would seem that the US is capable of "tolerating" a great deal when it comes to being invaded.

Hamas and those who voted them into power need to be neutralized immediately. Israel has ever right to defend herself and to eliminate the threat that Hamas is to Israel.




The creation of the State of Israel...
was the biggest mistake. But, having said that, Israel is a nation/country that has the right to exist for a multitude of reasons among them most of their innocent populace had no part in the creation itself. Anybody who wants to defend the creation of the State of Israel again and again using 'Biblical References' or other mythical stories are so arrogant in their religious beliefs.

Also, when did the right-wing nuts in this country believed in UN resolutions, oh wait a minute whenever it's convinient to use the UN cover or otherwise it becomes the "EVIL UN" who hate the US and Israel.

As long as the right-wingers have a major say in foreign policy, there is no end in sight for the unending misery. Everybody agrees that the militancy and religious nuts are there on the Palestinians as well, and I have no problem in neutralizing them, but it just stays with them and never goes to the Israeli side. As long as the virulent one-sided support to the Israel exists in the United States, there will be no end to it this madness, and the fear is one day the religious nuts in this country will push the entire world to war.

Excellent Comments Today.

It speaks well of TOWNHALL that Pat, for the most part, has been repudiated today.

Over the years, because of his strong support for pro-life issues, his eloquence when speaking on behalf of the unborn, I given him a pass on foreign issues. This is no longer possible. The obession with Nazi Germany. The obvious anti-Semitism. It's really just sad.

Imagine...
Imagine if your next-door neighbor hated you will an irrtational, total, and consuming hatred. And furthermore, he had dedicated his life to destroying yours. Instead of improving his own life, he spent all his money to make bombs that he lobbed into your yard, or onto your house. Never mind that you just wanted to live peacefully next door. This homicidal maniac just wanted you dead. Is it any different for the Israelis?

T.C.
I myself used to absolutely devour Pat's columns and television appearances in the 1980's and the 1990's; I even contributed money to his 1992 presidential candidacy. In fact, even though I find myself in agreement with him on an ever narrowing range of issues, I STILL enjoy his appearances on political talk shows: there are very few people in that arena who can turn a phrase better than Pat Buchanan, and he still has a fair degree of political acumen.

And although I disagree with much of his present economic policy, at least I understand what his philosophy rests on: his dismay at the departure of American manufacturing for cheaper labor markets overseas is because of his fear that if America suddenly found itself needing to gear up quickly to fight a major war in earnest, on the scale of a WW2, our decreasing industrial capacity could be crippling in our ability to undertake such an endeavor.

And although I'm of Jewish birth and therefore have more right than most to be offended by Pat's supposed anti-Semitism and anti-Israelism, I actually don't regard Pat as a Jew hater. Pat has made no secret regarding the basis of his attitude toward Israel: he has openly written that he believes America's friendship with Israel is a loser for the United States, and therefore America's pure self-interest would dictate a shift away from supporting that nation. I don't agree with him, based to some extent on my belief about what the Bible says about those who bless the seed of Abraham vs. those curse it (Genesis 12) - but at least I understand it.

The world waits for Obama to speak...
...about his thoughts on the middle east, while Obama waits for Bush to act, so Obama can say, "er ... er ... Me ... er ... too!"

In the movie, Apocalypse Now, a soldier asked another soldier in a fox hole, "Who's in charge here?"

That is the question the world will ask of the Obama presidency because, as Israel, Hamas and our friends and enemies will know and understand, Obama is not in charge of his presidency. Obama is the "accidental president!" He is the man who allowed his ambition to cause him to over-reach!

When Bush decided to help the Big Three automakers, top democrat and union labor leaders revealed their view of Obama. They all said that Bush give them time and room to stay alive. And, their job is to "teach and educate" Obama to get him to do what they want him to do. After Bush made a decision Obama said, "Me ... er ... Too!"

Obama, the introspective president, will be in the clouds as the people around him, with a conceptual framework of what they want to accomplish through the executive branch, will allow Obama to keep himself out of the loop. Then, educate him to do what they want him to do. Then, Obama will take his family for vacation on Hawaii to "reflect" somemore. Biden will use his office to fatten the pockets on him, his sons and his family. While enjoying the position but being kept out of the loop with Obama.

Obama's presidency will be like a snake with too many heads!

..............
This passage was written for those like Pat and Daft.........

"The Romans in full view of the crowds in the Coliseum were going to feed a Jew to the lions. They dug a hole five feet deep, put in the Jew standing up and buried him to his neck, so that only his head was above ground. They then let out the lion that was starved for two days. The lion with his mouth drooling went straight for the Jew and circled his prey before eating it. When it got close, the Jew bit it. It yelped and ran away. From the stands of the Coliseum, someone screamed, "Jew, Fight Fair!"

..............
The author of the passage in my last post is Shmuel Neumann, Ph.D.

Pat is wrong
The first obligation of ever sovereign nation is to protect its citzens. And when you hit back the last thing you want to do is to go tit for tat. You hit them and you hut them hard. The people of Gaza elected Hamas and they need to bear responsibility for the decisions of their government to attack Israel.

Get Buchanan off this site
"Yet the wisdom of so savage a retribution for rockets that killed not one Israeli is open to question."

Right Pat. Israel should wait until scores of their citizens have actually been killed before issuing "savage retribution".

You make me sick.

Who are the savages here? Hamas, who destroys the peace with a wanton act of war for war's sake, or Israel, which for the umpteenth time has allowed arabs to settle buffer zones like Gaza as an act of good faith only to be wantonly attacked by fundamentalist whackos whose expressed purpose for living is to destroy Israel?

And when a jihadist talks about destroying Israel, he is not talking about ruining the land that Israelis occupy. He is talking about genocide; just as Hitler envisioned it in the 1930's.

The 60-odd year history of Israel is a repeat of the same scenario. Arabs try to militarily concur the land and are driven back. So they use their adjacent land holdings as a base to launch terrorist attacks. Israel resppnds by driving them back even further to create buffer zones for Israel's protection. The arabs respond by complaining that their land has been stolen and use that as an excuse for still more terrorist jihad.

And then some arab apologist like Buchanan comes along and, from the safety of the US, criticizes Israel for not turning the other cheek.

VICTORY IS THE ONLY ANSWER!
Pistol #86 gets it right. Diplomacy only works when both parties have a common interest in peace. Without this war is the only remaining option.
***
I respect Condi Rice's skill, intellect, and good heart. However, I can't understand why she still thinks a negotiated settlement between Israel and her implacable racist death loving enemies is possible.
***
Civilized societies faced this situation before--check out WW2--Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan were the analogues to the Islamists.
***
After 20 years or more of jihadist brainwashing there are no longer any innocent people in Gaza--only future terrorists and their supporters / enablers.
***
Airstrikes are "feel good" attacks--but they only help as part of a real ground invasion. Israel should block the Egyptian border and coastal escape routes first. Then a General Sherman "march to the sea" or General Patton "drive into Germany" approach must be used.
***
Gaza is a 25 mile long by 5 mile long "country" with 1.5 million residents. Divide it into isolated areas and clean each one out. If fire comes from a building, bomb it flat--do not send troops in to clear it--and move on to the next one.
***
Impose a total news / TV / reporter / phone / diplomatic blackout on Gaza. Summarily execute all terrorists--or anyone found with gunpowder / explosive residue on their hands.
***
When Hamas fighters / supporters are dead or beaten into submission peace and re-education of the survivors will be possible. Until then--fight on to victory--just like WW2. No quarter expected or given.
***
General Sherman said, "War is Hell!"--then he took Hell to the South during the U.S. Civil War. It broke the back of the Confederacy and saved our nation.
***
Rocketman

Not about Land
This is not about land. Israel and the occupied territories represent less than 1% of the arab controlled land mass. This is about Arab pride. Most Arabs don't give a rats about the Palistinians otherwise they would have resettled their Arab brother years ago. They are only a symbol that stokes the flames of Arab Resentment.

They believe that there god and yet their countries are a mess. The standard of living for the average arab lags far behind the west and Asis. Rather than blaming their corrupt leaders and their mediaval thinking they blame the west.


Why does the far left hate Israel
The great paradox is why the far left hates Israel. Isreal is the only true democracy in the middle east. Isreal provides equal rights for women, you what kinds of rights women have in Arab Countries. Israel even provides extensive gay rights. Being openly gay in an Arab Country can get you killed.

Israel has active left wing parties (Right wing ones too). Isreal has a free press.

So why does the far left hate Israel.

I think it is because the left has a narrative in which Westerners are always the imperialist oppressors and non-westerners are always the victimes. So Despots who support revenge killings don't get a peep from the far left, but if Israel happens to retiate even if they are attacked they are the big bad guy.


For Standshisground
"The Palestinians claim they prize martyrdom: ... Or is it only martyrdom if you actually take one or more infidels with you when you go?

Exactly.

Great post.

Regarding your point that we had to kill far more Japanese and Germans than they killed Americans to end WWII, allow me to quote Rush Limbaugh for you.

"Peace follows victory."

There will be no peace in the Middle East until Israel crushes its enemies completely, because the jihadists will continue to wage murderous war against Israel as long as any one of them is able.

Until one recognizes this reality one cannot even begin to comprehend Middle East politics or Middle East military strategy.

The Palestinian people
are not blameless in this bloodletting. They elected this murderous regime in a landslide election to run their country and thereby encouraged the conflict.

It’s easy to say that the fault lies with the government and not the people, but the people had the chance to throw Hamas out and they didn’t do it, so one can only conclude that this elected government is carrying out the wishes of the people when they continually terrorize Israel.

If the Palestinians are suffering now, they have to assume some of the responsibility.

JMO51
"The great paradox is why the far left hates Israel. Israel is the only true democracy in the middle east."

That's easy JM051, the far left hates democracy. Their hatred of democracy is second only to their hatred of capitalism, which Israel is also good at. They hate democracy and capitalism because these things empower the people.

As for women’s rights, the far left cares nothing about women, gays, minorities or the poor. These things are a ruse to gain power. And power is the far left’s only true love.

We must never abandon Israel
Israel may not be perfect, but I'll support their desire to not be blown to bits by every one of their neighbors who would if they had the capability.

JMO51
Hey, we actually have common ground on something!

How often have you ever seen the following line from a staunch conservative on this site in regards to something you posted:

KUDOS TO YOUR POSTS, SIR!

Specifically, your 1:06 and 1:13 pm posts.

I find practically nothing in those posts I disagree with. In fact, the only thing I'll add is that, in regards to your question in the latter post about why the far left hates Israel so, I think the far left is showing its REAL face. Far from being the "tolerant" or "open-minded" or "fair" individuals they so painstakingly try to project to the world, they're actually showing that they're just as subject to the human foibles they so decry in us lesser mortals. They just don't have the courage to face it.

Pat, your health worries me,
I mean your mental health.
YOu have to give your spittle to a Lab: they definitely will find virus of rabid anti-Semitism.

Your pearl:
"Palestinian people [since being] driven from their homes in the War of 1948"

Arabs had STARTED the war the next day after the state of Israel has been established and pronounced based on the League resolution.

Your pearl:
"One thousand were killed or wounded"

Did you count personally pointing at each cadaver by your fingers?

Your pearl"
"...Hamas fighters..."

Calling creatures who intentionally kill Israeli civilians aiming their rockets at caffees, markets, superstores, bus stops, and etc. "fighters" is a symptom of - at least - the Alzheimer desease.

You pearl:
"rockets that killed not one Israeli"
1. "not one Israeli" is false. Google for fotos of killed Isralis, and show to your kids if any, just to prevent them from becoming such an anti-Semite as you are.
2. If somebody would shoot into your front- or backyard everyday many times a day, even without killing you, would you be happy?

YOur pearl:
"In advancing peace in the Middle East, Bush's eight-year record is now a near-absolute failure."

It seems your Alzheimer is rapidly progressing: you completely forgot how Clinton was twisting Israel's arms while his wife kissed the Terrorist-in-Chief's wife.

And so forth...
I am astonished that years ago I was reading you with some respect...

Not enough
That was a well disguised hate-Israel article. Israel isn't hitting hard enough. The article is wrong about Palestinians, there is no such thing, they are Arabs. They were not forced to leave. Jews went door to door begging them to stay and be protected. They left, no Arab country would take them because they are a pity tool on the world stage. Buchanan doesn't know what he's talking about, throughout the entire article. If some faction in Canada were shelling us, with the support of Canada, would Buchanan have the same attitude or would he say take them out no matter what the cost? Or is Buchanan just a coward or just a Jew hater?

Taft is a joke (again)
Taft, a liberal fool, gives a link and a quote from an article by an Iranian "journalist" (and I use the term loosely) to support his sympathy for war-mongering terrorists.

He can't figure out that one-sided liberal "journalism" like that doesn't convince anyone of anything, especially at a website where conservative go because we are weary of the ultra-bias of the liberal-dominated major media.

No Taft, we don't like having women and children killed by bombs. That's why we want Israel to hit back so hard that Hamas learns not to start any more wars.

Where was your concern for the women and children in Bosnia-Herzgovina when Clinton chose to bomb from high altitude in a war he unilaterally entered w/o even discussing it with Congress; a war which had NO EFFECT on US national interest or security?

Your hypocrisy stinks to high heaven.

Way Off base On This One
Sorry Pat, but you're wrong on this one. Completely wrong.

There can be no peace with those who seek to destroy you. Israel has EVERY right to attack as they have.

M Sederoff
You said, "power is the far left’s only true love".

EXQUISITE!

Don't even need to say anything more: you've said it all in that one line!

Unequal justice
Every time (and I mean every time) Palestinian Muslims attack Israel with their rockets or homicide bomers, no world leader condemns them. The only serious condemnation is always for Israel when it retaliates.

There are no innocent Palestinians in Gaza! Right down to the very small brainwashed, rifle toting, rock throwing, hatred spewing, children they don't want peace. If they could, each and everyone of them would gladly kill every Jew and wipe Israel off the map. And Arafat is given the Nobel Peace Prize. What a joke!

The Palestinian Muslim's don't want their own state within Israel, they want it all! If Israel gives any more of their land for peace, they're idiots!

Daft #51
"Walling them off" didn't stop the rockets, Daft. They used human bombs, until Israel "walled them off", then circumvented the wall with "aerial bombs". (rockets, mortors, etc)
Your "poor" terrorist friends have had their own "homeland" for the last 86 years! The 1922 Balfour Accords gave the arabs the country of "TransJordan" to settle in. To this day, the population of Jordan is over 90% "palestinian"! The root cause of the ME conflict is the never-ending greed of the arabs. 90% of what was once the Jewish nations, (Judea & Israel) will never be enough! Read their PUBLICLY stated goals: The annilation of the Jews/Jewish nation, it's never been taken out of ANY of their constitutions!

I know!
We can insist that Israel kill only as many Wahabis as they kill Israelis. We can send Hillary Clinton to keep count.

That will keep it fair.

Peace?
The Palestinians (if there even is such a thing) have consistently rejected peace. Israel has offered numerous concessions but they're never enough. The only thing they want is for Israel to stop existing. How many years of negotiating do we need before we decide it won't work?

And this "proportionate response" notion is baloney. Hamas attacks Israeli CIVILIANS and then hides behind Palestinian CIVILIANS. Israel does its best to attack only strategic targets. The goal of military defense is to eliminate the threat, not a tit-for-tat game of patty cake.

Buchanan & Israel
Pat

I remember fondly your successful battles with Braden on radio Firing Line in 1980--especially election night where I could not get home from the Pentagon before dopey "Jimmy" conceded. You were mahvelous-- then! In latter years YOU seem to be the dopey one. All of the thugs of the U.N.(ever read Monyihan on them?)invariably thunder about the despicable Israelis and their mistreatment of the civilized world. Now, I find you among them. I'm dismayed. Please read todays op ed in The Wash Times, by its editor emeritus(Pruden) on the subject.

Yours----------MJ Turkelson, Lebanon, Ohio

Let's be honest
If any other nation on the planet was doing what Israel is doing we would be condemning it.

They actually remind me of how Russia relates and responds to the goofballs in Georgia...and how did we react to that?

Yes, Hamas is populated by a bunch of illiterate goons who seem to ask for trouble. But when Israel has about 7 casualities and then responds with 100 TONS of bombs (probably built and delivered by weapons we gave them) and causes hundreds of deaths and thousands of civilian casualities there is no reason and little logic involved.

We are just plain stupid to nearly always give Israel our unquestioned support. Make no mistake, Israel would treat us no different than they treat the PALS or the Arabs if it suited their purpose. And Israel should be treated by us no different than any of the other nut case nations, tribes, cults, religions, and despots in the Middle East.

And we should start doing exactly that tomorrow morning!

Israels response to attack
Can someone please explain why Israel is condemned for not supplying food, power, medical aid to their enemies who are attacking them? The Arabs have been given huge sums for these things, but all we see are more rockets. What other country is resonsible for giving needs to their foes? Pat Overton

What response is reasonable?
As many have stated when your enemy shoots at you then hides behind his mother's skirts what is the appropriate response?

The only rational response is to shoot to kill your enemy and if his mother is in the line of fire that's to bad for her but killing those who would kill you or your family must be your only goal!

BTW: What is all this crappola about not wanting to inflame the Arab world? When every Arab country except maybe Egypt has as a stated goal the elimination of Israel they are way passed the point of being further inflamed. Can Libs hate W any more when their very reason for existence is to foam at the mouth at the mention of his name!

Peace loving nations of the West??
That's an oxymoron. The west is the world's largest producer of arms and pretty much exports it to much of the world there by creating havoc around the world. In the last 200 years much of the world have been under the grip of western colonialism/conquest, and most nations have gotten independence in the early part of the 20th century.

Who's been occupying who? Who's been terrorzing who in the mordern era?

I have no sympathy for the Arab regimes, but lot of the regimes themselves have been propped by the West for it's own economic and political gains. Any real democratic movement crushed in order to be replaced by dictators of liking by the West. Do you guys from ever think about that? Ofcourse, it's always been the evil brown/black/yellow man that's been the problem. When it came to Native-Indians they had to be "civilized" from their "un-civilized" ways and therefore everything needs to be destroyed to create a paradise right?

Rocket Attacks
What if a bunch of illiterate yokels in Juarez started lobbing rockets into El Paso? Do you think we would lob a couple back? Or, do you think we would do what was necessary to stop the idiots?

Pat, through your writings I have become more conservative over the years. I respect your views and have taken on many of them. However, every time you speak or write about Israel, you begin to sound anti-semitic and I resent that.

The only chance Israel has to stop the missiles is to do what they are doing. Hit them hard and hit them often. Hamas is obviously not going to become good citizens of the world on their own accord.

A very wise man


"Only the guilty are guilty. Their children are not."
— Elie Wiesel

"I swore never to be silent whenever and wherever human beings endure suffering and humiliation. We must always take sides."
— Elie Wiesel

"I don't want my past to become anyone else's future."
— Elie Wiesel

The TH double standard.
How many times have people here exclaimed "playing the race card" after the Dems or Obama backers mentioned race?

Yet, many of these same people immediately blurt "ANTI-SEMITE" as soon as anything even vaguely resembling criticism of Israel is mentioned.

Here's a tip: mentioning facts, events, and actions are not racist nor anti-semite...and it applies equally. In fact, paying attention to the actions of ALL the foreign nations is what we probably need in that cesspool called the Middle East and especially in the incredibly mis-named "Holy Land" that is the heart of the beast.

HAMAS WAS ELECTED
by the Palestinian People and therefore are accountable for the actions of who they elected. Hamas (not Israel) declined the continuation of the truce agreement with Israel which had expired. Hamas has justified their renewed attacks because they state, Israel did not live up to their end of the bargain. Yet, in the two years Gaza has been under Hamas and its people, they haven't kept to their side of the bargain either.
So when is enough, enough? If you live next to a hive of 'killer' bees, do you just hope you don't get bit, or simply kill them one by one or do you do whatever it takes to destroy the nest?
If the 'innocent' Palestinian People, sincerely want peace, it's up to them to throw the terrorists in Hamas out of power.

Your Anti-Semitism is showing
Once again, your Palestinian bias is showing. If you remember your history (unfortunatly, you tend to have selective memory) Gaza was actually a part of Egypt. Israel accepted the people of Gaza after Egypt was defeated and Egypt saw it as a way to get rid of the Palestinians. It's funny, the Palestinians did prosper until Arafat took control. Tell me Mr. Buchanan, why is it that the Palestinians are the only people who arre STILL in refugee camps after 60 years?????? Are there really Palestinian people? When did they have a country? What was it called? Who was their president? What was their currancy? What was their capital? Palestinians are kept around for three reasons. 1. To give the Arabs cannon fodder. 2. To give the UN sometyhing to do other than take kickbacks and not pay parking tickets. 3. the Jews and Israel for picking on the poor Palestinians. Sorry Pat, you are either an anti-semite or ignorant. Either way, you lose.

It's Time
Hamas will not stop attacks on Israel until that country is wiped out. Israel should do whatever is necessary to protect their people even if it means bombing Iran and Syria.

..............
-------- The west is the world's largest producer of arms and pretty much exports it to much of the world there by creating havoc around the world……….Carter------

Moron, the weapon of choice throughout the Middle East, Asia and Africa is the Kalashnikov. That weapon is made in Russia.

dnha14
You asked what we would do to "stop the idiots" per our border with Mexico?

Obviously you have not been paying real close attention. Those "yokels" have invaded our nation so badly that we now have literally millions of illegal aliens among us.

You say that we would "lob a couple back" if they used rockets on El Paso but our brilliant government sure hasn't done much that I can see to stop the invasion.

If our brain trust thinks that 11,000,000 (or whatever the current number is) illegal aliens is okay inside our nation...why can't we insist that Israel take take back a few million of the refugees they created?

Standshisground

Good to be with you. I've enjoyed your posts for a long time.

Also, excellent comments from:

ColoMike, wiseone, Patricia, Rupe, Steve and several others.

How 'bout that MSM? Did you notice when Israel was being shelled and did nothing there was virtually zero coverage? Now Israel finally strikes back and it's front page news and the top story on network and cable news. Amazing.

What would America do if....
All you right-wing, F the Arabs types need to think of the other side of this coin. What would the US do if any other country in the world treated the Israelis the way they treat the Palestinians?

T.C.
"Amazing." The msm ignores some homemade rockets that scare little children and then act like is a big deal when Israel kills 70 civilians, women and children!

ISRAEL SHOULD FOLLOW ONE RULE

.....The bombing will continue until the missile attacks stop ...also there should be no "humantarian" shipments of food and medical supplies while missiles are being fired ...

.....There is no such thing as a humane war ...wars are inhumane by definition ...the object is to end it as quickly as possible by whatever means necessary ...

.....Humane decisions, such as LBJ's reticence to bomb the dikes around Hanoi, prolonged the war and led to eventual defeat ...how many thousands of American lives could have been saved if LBJ had bombed those dikes? .....COLOSSUS

To Tom in WI
The point you make in your last post regarding our lack of response to our invasion by those South of our Border (and tolerated if not promoted by our government) would be well taken, were it not for the fact that Palastinians (unlike Mexicans) can not be trusted not to be wearing suicide bomber vests.

The propaganda machine in....
churches of the United States especially the the South by Pat Robertson, Jerry Faldwell, Hagee and those types have to be stopped. All this "Israel has done nothing" comes from that source in the United States. The Israeli intelligence community and the politicians knows what they have to do, they have done perfectly. The only problem that support will erode(it's already started), but will it erode before these right-wing nuts in this country and in Israel push the entire world to war?

Great Satan the super moron....
It doesn't matter combination of weapons made by Britain, United States, Germany, France, and now Israel far outweighs the amount produced and sold by Russia. In any case, I don't have any sympathy for Russia either, they have their share of blood on their hands.

CARTER MA

.....Why don't you get together with Uncle Jimmah and play hide the peanut .....COLOSSUS

..............
-------What would the US do if any other country in the world treated the Israelis the way they treat the Palestinians?.......Jason------

Idiotchild, arabs in Israel have more rights than in any of th arab/Islamic countries. Arab women in Israel are not murdered in soccer stadiums for showing some ankle. Homosexuals aren’t hanged in Israel as they are throughout the Middle East. Israel provides electricity, water and humanitarian aid to the paleostinians while their brethren do nothing for them but perpetuate their squalor.

You’re a dimwitted tool; a prototypical arab bootlicking eunuch.

A qoute from an earlier post of mine………..

Arab leader King Hussein 1960: "Since 1948 Arab leaders have approached the Palestine problem in an irresponsible manner....They have used the Palestine people for selfish political purposes. This is ridiculous and, I could say, even criminal".

baseballdoc, T.C.
baseballdoc:

You said, "There is no such thing as a humane war ...wars are inhumane by definition ...the object is to end it as quickly as possible by whatever means necessary".

Reminds me of a couple of quotes from generals on EACH side of the Civil War:

R.E. Lee (at the Battle of Fredericksburg): "It is good that war is so terrible, we should grow too fond of it".

W.T. Sherman: "War is cruelty. There's no use trying to reform it. The crueler it is, the sooner it will be over".

Like I said before in a prior post, one of the risks in initiating war, as Hamas did when it started firing rockets at Israel from Gaza, is that you may wind up getting back much worse than you give out. Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan learned this in WW2 - and it's cured them of their taste for war since. It's long since time for Israel to impress this on Hamas. If the Palestinians prefer to sacrifice themselves rather than live in peace with Israel: well, that's THEIR choice, and the world will go on just fine without them.

T.C.:

Going to be REAL interesting to see how the Obama Administration - and more specifically, Hillary Clinton, once confirmed as SoS - are going to deal with the present Middle East fracas, since I'm sure it will spill over to the onset of Obama's presidency.

And yeah, I've noticed the totally disparate attention that Pravda dba The MSM (that's what I'm calling the MSM from this point on, since it seems to be content to be nothing more than a state organ of the Obama Administration in just the same way that Pravda was a state organ of the Russian communist regime) has given Israel's shelling of Gaza vs. Hamas' shelling of Israel for all these many months. But journalistic integrity, as we all know, has been dying in Pravda dba the MSM for years; 2008 is merely the year it finally totally decomposed.

For Former_Rep_Never_a_Dem
What makes you think Islamic jihadists will stop at annihilating Israel?

Have you never heard of Neville Chamberlain? Munich? The Sudatenland? Chamberlain appeased Hitler to get "peace in our time". The peace lasted the historical equivalent of a New York minute. Less than a year later Great Britain was mobilizing its Expeditionary Force to help France stop the German advance (Czechoslovakia, Poland, and Belgium were already lost). Less than two years later the Brits were mobilizing a makeshift fleet of largely civilian boats to rescue that same Expeditionary Force from the shores of Dunkirk.

The idea that we can appease jihadists by sacrificing Israel is naive and blind to history. These Islamists are theologically driven and dedicated to conquering the world for Allah. Any arguments you hear from jihadists to the contrary are propaganda. Any arguments you hear that there are "moderate" muslims who don't particiapte in the jihad are irrelevant, because the so-called "moderate" muslims will do nothing to stop the jihadists.

How many nations have to suffer the same fate as Afghanistan before people get this? Al Quaida has already tried to conquer Somalia militarily, and they are working on a violent political coup in Pakistan, where bin Laden is believed to be hiding.

Peace will only follow victory over the jihadists. Total, absolute, crushing victory. If Israel is willing and able to make that fight so much the better for the US.

Taft
""Amazing." The msm ignores some homemade rockets that scare little children and then act like is a big deal when Israel kills 70 civilians, women and children!"

You are truly myopic.

..............
-------It doesn't matter combination of weapons made by Britain, United States, Germany, France, and now Israel far outweighs the amount produced and sold by Russia........Carter----

No fool, the small arms distributed by those nations comes nowhere close to the number of Kalashnikovs in circulation throughout the world. That particular weapon is the assault rifle of choice by terrorists and militants worldwide.

Maybe you should stick to topics you're well versed in like sodomy and drugs.

fishy
Your point would be equally "well taken" if not for the fact that Israel experiences virtually no suicide attacks. In fact, during the entire year of either 2006 or 2007 there was not a single suicide bombing inside Israel.

Israel's vulnerability to suicide attacks are a popular myth that our media promotes and that most Americans buy into.

.........
----Israel's vulnerability to suicide attacks are a popular myth that our media promotes and that most Americans buy into.....tom-----

Myth? Are all liberals this stupid? [rhetorical question]. The reason suicide bombings have lessened is because the Israelis built a wall to keep the islamic heathens out. The very wall that you and your leftist bedwetting quislings screamed bloody murder over.

SATAN, pay attention:
Israel dropped 100 tons of bombs on the rock throwers and rocket launchers in Gaza.

Not a single AK-47 was reported in any of those 200,000 pounds of bombs.

What Would America Do ?????
Jason, You wrote, "What would America do if any other country treated the Israelis the way they treat the Palestinians?" All Palestinians who live in Israel are Israeli citizens. They have the same rights and privlidges as do the Jews. Tell me, where are the Jews of Saudi Arabia, Syria, Iran, Iraq, Qutar, Baharain, Lybia????? How are they treated???? They were either all killed or expelled. As for other countries. Why are there still refugee camps for the Palestinians after 60 years? Why does Lebanon and Jordan keep them in camps? Why did Egypt not want any part of Gaza? Do some research, get educated and perhaps you will be enlightened.

SATAN
Did you lose your brain while in the flames down below?

Most small children in Israel could tell you that Israel recently went an entire year without a single suicide attack in their nation.


.........
----Not a single AK-47 was reported in any of those 200,000 pounds of bombs……..Tom----

You are impressively stupid. The paleostinians have their children march around carrying Kalashnikovs.


------Most small children in Israel could tell you that Israel recently went an entire year without a single suicide attack in their nation.-------

Again stupid, the reason suicide bombings are down is because of the wall, which is why the filthy primitive Mohammedan throat cutters have resorted to firing missiles. I’m sure it’s not comforting to Israelis to know they’re more likely to be murdered by missiles than suicide bombings.

Don't blame me Pat.........
I voted for you.......

SATAN
You seem to like to run off the mouth and act like a tough guy (a common refrain of chickenhawks and draft dodgers like Cheney, Wolfowitz, etc etc) but let's see what you really know:

What percentage of the land that Israel now controls did they actually own when the mistake called Israel was created in 1948?

How many refugees has Israel been reported (by independent agencies) to have created?

How many civilian deaths and casualiites has Israel caused?

How many UN citations have been issued against Israel?

What is your learned guess as to why most of the world's nations are usually opposite the positions of Israel and our stupid and often unquestioned support of Israel?

What has Israel ever actually done for the USA while we have given them almost $100 billion of our tax dollars along with all those neat weapons to battle the rock throwers?

Do you know the two biggest reasons for the hatred of America in the Arab/Muslim world? Or are you one of the fools who thinks it's our fancy clothes, WDW, malls, and our life style?

Thx.

tom fails
to see the irony in his statement.

Gee, a whole year, huh?

History
Alas, "pitchfork Pat" seems to forget that it was the Palestinians that freely elected Hamas and put them in power. To now claim they bare no resposibility seems simplistic at best and naive at worst. Given his past he should know better.

SATAN
You really like the word "stupid" don't you...and obviously having intimate knowledge you ARE an expert on the subject.

So you are saying that Arab children are running around in Israel with AK-47's and terrorizing the defenseless Israeli's?

Also, use your vast knowledge and tell us the total numbers of military and civilian casualitites of both the PALS/Arabs and the Israeli's since 1948?

Or do numbers (like events and facts) confuse you...so you simply ignore them?

But good luck.

Happy New year Mr. Buchanan!
I am now certain that you have found your niche. You belong on MSNBC.

This whole article is just trash!

Hamas will not be satisfied with anything that Israel offers. They exist to destroy Israel.They are terrorists. Like ALL terrorists they are cowards! They hide behind their women and children.

The enemy of the Palestinians is not Israel. It is Hamas.


Speaking of history...
Modern Israel was largely formed due to the British finally tiring of Jewish terrorists from Lehi and Irgun, who bombed, kidnapped and killed the British in Palestine until the British washed their hands of it all and turned the problem over to the new U.N. The men of Lehi and Irgun are lionized in modern Israel and their deeds are celebrated...the same as Hamas and Hezbollah celebrate their fighers. The Jews and Muslims both subscribe to eye for an eye justice. That means their ongoing conflict has no possible end, as neither side will ever give in. The United States should simply not take sides in this conflict. There is nothing productive that we can do in that region, other than to avoid its detestable politics.

..............
Tom, you’re an ignorant dolt who doesn’t know shyt. I’ll entertain some of your drivel……..

“What has Israel ever actually done for the USA while we have given them almost $100 billion of our tax dollars along with all those neat weapons to battle the rock throwers?”

First off Israel has contributed more to mankind [per capita] than any other group of people on the face of the globe. Secondly, Egypt also receives approx $2-4 billion from the US each year as negotiated by the US in the Israel/Egypt peace agreement. It’s no surprise that you Jew hating miscreants never whine about Egypt receiving aid.

“Do you know the two biggest reasons for the hatred of America in the Arab/Muslim world? Or are you one of the fools who thinks it's our fancy clothes, WDW, malls, and our life style?”

Tell me stupid, what caused the Islamic conquests and marauding during the 7th century? Remember, there was no US at the time to support Israel. So what was the islamists motivation to enslave and convert by the sword?