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Tuesday, December 02, 2008
Pat Buchanan :: Townhall.com Columnist
The Rationale of Terror
by Pat Buchanan
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Arguably the most successful act of revolutionary terror was the June 1914 assassination of the Archduke Francis Ferdinand in Sarajevo.

Believing his mission to murder the heir to the Austrian throne had failed, Gavrilo Princip suddenly found himself standing a few feet away from the royal car. He fired twice, mortally wounding the archduke and his wife.

Tactically, that act of terror eliminated the reformist Ferdinand, who meant to address the grievances of his Slav subjects by granting them greater autonomy and equality with Austrians and Hungarians inside the empire.

Strategically, the assassination succeeded beyond the wildest dreams of its Black Hand plotters.

Hard-liners in Austria demanded an ultimatum to Serbia. When her demands were not met in full, Vienna declared war. Czar Nicholas mobilized in support of Russia's little Slav brothers. The Kaiser ordered mobilization. When the French refused to declare neutrality, Germany declared war. In hours, the British Cabinet had reversed itself to back war with Germany on behalf of Belgium and France.

Princip had lit the fuse that set off in six weeks the greatest war in history. While Serbia suffered per capita losses as great as any other nation, she ended the Great War as the lead nation in a Kingdom of the South Slavs embracing Slovenes, Croats, Bosnians, Albanians, Montenegrins, Macedonians and Hungarians. The Habsburg Empire at which Princip had struck had vanished.

Last week's Mumbai massacre seems a similar triumph of terror.

Tactically, by sending a platoon of suicide warriors into India's financial capital, terrorizing a train station, two five-star hotels and a Jewish center, and killing nearly 200 in over 60 hours, the plotters assured themselves of round-the-clock worldwide television coverage.

In so riveting the world's attention for four days, this terrorist atrocity was a success.

And by using Pakistanis to perpetrate the massacres and Karachi as port of embarkation, the plotters focused India's rage exactly where they want it, against Pakistan. By this slaughter in India's commercial capital, the Islamists have destroyed the detente Pakistan was seeking with India and pushed both toward war. Out to murder moderation and stoke militancy, the terrorists succeeded.

Years ago, this writer observed:

"Terrorism is a tactic, a technique, a weapon that fanatics, dictators and warriors have resorted to through history. If, as Clausewitz wrote, war is the continuation of politics by other means, terrorism is the continuation of war by other means."

Yet terrorism -- the killing of innocents for political ends -- can only triumph if the aggrieved play the role the terror masters have scripted for them in their bloody drama. What, then, may we surmise are the tactical and strategic goals of the terror masters of Mumbai?

To humiliate, wound and outrage India in her pride as a great new democratic and economic power in Asia. To imperil Mumbai's future as a safe and secure financial capital in which to live, work and invest. To awe the world and inspire Islam's young by their audacity. To attain immortality.

But the strategic target of the militants is the Pakistani government.

Pakistan's offenses? Cooperating with America in Afghanistan and the border region, battling al-Qaida and the Taliban, withdrawing from the fight for Kashmir, seeking peace with a Hindu nation where 170 million Muslims are denied their place in the sun.

President Bush should pray New Delhi does not adopt his Bush Doctrine of preventive war or the Cheney Doctrine: "Even if there's just a 1 percent chance of the unimaginable coming due, act as if it is a certainty." For war in the subcontinent between India and Pakistan would be a calamity and a triumph for the terrorists across what Zbigniew Brzezinski has called the "Global Balkans."

War would pit two nuclear powers against each other for the first time since the Sino-Soviet border clash of 1969. It would spawn bloodshed between Muslim and Hindu in India. It would see the collapse of Pakistan, its possible dissolution and a military dictator in a nation already divided against itself over whether to continue resisting al-Qaida and the Taliban, or cut ties to the unpopular Americans.

Wounded and enraged by the atrocities of 9-11, America lashed out, first at Afghanistan and the al-Qaida source of the conspiracy, then at Iraq, which had nothing to do with the attacks. Thus did the Bush administration disunite its nation and forfeit its mandate.

For India to lash out at a Pakistan that was not complicit in the Mumbai crimes against humanity, but harbors elements within that are guilty and are celebrating, would be as great a mistake.

India and Pakistan both have a vital interest in no new war.

But a new war is exactly what the terrorists killed for and died for.

Should it come, they win -- and enter history as revolutionary terrorists alongside Princip and the perpetrators of 9-11.

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About The Author
Pat Buchanan is a founding editor of The American Conservative magazine, and the author of many books including State of Emergency: The Third World Invasion and Conquest of America .
 
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America...
... was required to 'lash out' after 9-11. The govt would have been treasonous if it had sat still for that. Whether Iraq might have occurred irrespective of 9-11 is debatable.

I would maintain it was the media which 'disunited' the nation over Iraq. They never regarded that Bush had a 'mandate' and set out to prove it.

Nor do I think terrorists think much beyond their hatred. As with every human endeavor, some of them sometimes 'get lucky.'

Obama not a NATURAL BORN US Citizen!
Hey folks, don't you think it's a little presumptuous to argue about Obama's policies, when he's not even a natural born US citizen? Ergo, he doesn't meet one of the three basic qualifications for the presidency. HE WAS BORN IN KENYA AND ALL HE'S SHOW US IS A FAKE BIRTH CERTIFICATE.

DEMAND OBAMA PROVE HE'S A NATURAL U.S. BORN CITIZEN - SIGN THE PETITION: if you've already signed it, email this link to a friend AND YOUR CHURCH. You can even type a letter and fax and they will send it for you here:
http://moniquemonicat.wordpress.com/2008/11/09/%E2%80%A2-si gn-obama-petition/

PROOF OBAMA WAS BORN IN KENYA!
SEE THE FAKE BIRTH CERTIFICATE FOR YOURSELF HERE:
http://moniquemonicat.wordpress.com/obama-proof-he-was-born -in-kenya-fake-birth-certificate/

Obama wouldn’t have forged his birth certificate for any other purpose than the fact he doesn’t have a legitimate one to show the public.

How can such a smart man...
...be so stupid re Americas' invasion of Iraq? It's embarrassing, really. NO ONE EVER SAID that Iraq had anything to do with the attrocities of Sep.- 11 - '01, but still, we have to hear dopes like Patty "The anti-semite" Buchanan, and the America hating left he has chosen to allign w/ (on this one), spew yet another reference to this tired canard. Oh spare me oh-please, O-Patty-O-Douchebag.

Keep up the good work MoniQue
The Media will eventually address it. I suggest you lobby high profile pundits and politicians.
Corsi is back! He will help.

Did read about Camille Paglia complaining about Obama's birth certificate? She wants to know why he won't release it.

The terrorists invite their doom
With every attack another nation becomes a victim and the anti-terror coalition grows.
Eventually there will be a moment of classic overreach and all hell will break loose, to detriment of the terrorists' hopes and dreams.

Pretty Good Guess.
I think ya gota know history as well as Pat Buchanan does, before you claim no intriguing interest in his scenario. In addition, Buchanan seems to be honest about human nature, not the deluded version of Western philosophers of the past 600 years.

Yeah, boy, I will guess that, eventually, we will nuke each other. All ya gotta do is look into Putin's eyes, and I will also guess that he will be the last man standing.

this was a public relations disaster
I don't think the terrorists who orchestrated the Mumbai massacre will succeed in their goal of igniting a war between Pakistan and India.

In fact, what the world saw was the plaintive cries of the 2 year old child, later taken to Israel, after terrorists murdered his parents.

It was a public relations disaster for the terrorists.

The world recoils, and rightly so.

Pat's point in drawing a comparison in India possibly launching a military attack on Pakistan as a result of Mumbai, and the Bush crew's attack on Iraq in the aftermath of 9/11, is interesting.

Saddam had absolutely nothing to do with 9/11.

No proof exists the Pakistani government had anything to do with the Mumbai attack.

But there the similarity ends.

The critical difference is judgment.

Governemnt of India possesses it(regarding Pakistan).

Bush never did(regarding Iraq).

Anyway, Bush had already decided to remove Saddam prior to 9/11.

9/11 merely made it easier for him to do so.




great column
Buchanan gives what is likely a pretty accurate account of the terrorists motivation. It is an interesting question whether the Indians and Pakistanis will bungle into giving the terrorists what they want as Bush did with his invasion of Iraq. Remember how proud conservatives were back then that they did not care to understand the motives of the terrorists. Unfortunately terrorist attacks can have the effect of making people glamorize stupidity.

Don't worry
Obama will just say inflate your tires and the world will be at peace.

Pakistan needs to go
Every Hindu Indian I talk to NOW thinks the creation of Pakistan to be a mistake. The parliamentary attacks in 01 did permanent damage to the opinion of Indians concerning Pakistan. I agree with them, Islam has a component the other Abrahamic religions do not posses to the same degree, a built in "error correction" component that is far more robust then any other major religion on earth. Thus, NO reform is possible without a massive military loss and overwhelming cultural domination.
India has history with other, violent religions. In their souls, Indians know Islam needs the same treatment as the Thuggee. Ugly go when it calls for civil war as well as war with a nuclear neighbor. Unfortunately Hindu Indians are too damned polite for their own good. God help us all with these crazy MUZI.

Who really cares............
as long as millions of Americans can slop down obese burgers at fast-obesity establishments, sit in front of the boob-tube picking their noses and flatulating playing video games, and of course, text-voting for their favorite American Idol or reality show character, all is well in the world......lol....

Would'nt worry too much about it all Pat...the Russkies and Chi-coms in "69" were saber-rattling...Brezhnev and Mao were simply testing each other........with Mao realizing the Chi-coms only advantage was sheer numbers at the time.....The russkies would have done some real damage to the Chi-coms and Mao knew it......200 Red Soviet divisions on the chinese northern border made that crystal clear to him.

and as to your article....The Indians have alot of common sense, they will NOT launch all out war...but, they most likely will increase some covert operations.


rivevnburg
Of course Hindus that the creation of a Moslem Pakistan was a mistake. They always thought it was a mistake, just like Russians think that an independent is a mistake.

MoniQue: I've run across your post on every column on Townhall. Let's see your birth certificate. I understand this business is going to the supreme court on Friday. I hope the opinion is written by Scalia, who will bluntly tell you how foolish you are to waste his valuable time.

Terrorism is brutal
What choice did America have after 9-11?

Go to war against the most likely source of the attack. By doing this we entangled ourselves in a situation that has a low probability of success as we understand success. Our success is victory of our ideals of freedom and liberty over the aggressors. What we will end up with may be an improvement over what existed but we will not have the victory that we truly desire.

The other choice we had was to focus our military on cutting off the head of the serpent of radical Islam without getting locked into a major military commitment. The mission would be to find the leaders and quietly take them out. A radical Islam movement needs vocal and visible leadership but if we committed to remove each new leader as it appeared the movement would be in disarray. No need to take these leaders to court just a simple execution order and then committing to execute the order.

The second choice might have been more effective since it would approach the brutality of terrorism but would have minimal collateral damage. Terrorism only succeeds when their victims react in a way that draws more moderate and benign Muslims into the fray. Our first choice of major war has definitely engaged many non-combatant Muslims but are they becoming more America friendly or are they growing tired of our presence? It might be possible for us to withdraw from Iraq and Afghanistan but true victory may not be possible no matter what we do militarily.

For rivenburg
A historical analysis shows that Pakistan was basically a power-mad demand by Jinnah (although Nehru, also power mad, contributed greatly by refusing to allow Jinnah to be PM).

Not only Hindu Indians consider Pakistan as a mistake, but also Banglas of both religious stripes--I have had several Bangla classmates and colleagues, all-but-one (a Chittagong Hindu) Muslims (also mixture of supporters of BNP and Awami--so having them altogether would be a conflagration in itself); everyone of them consistently stated that the Bengalis (other than a few Jinnah toadies such as Suhrawardy and Mirza) were not given opportunity to vote about Pakistan (Bengal + Assam could easily have been an independent nation--albeit quite dysfunctional; of course, Pakistan has been dysfunctional since founding, and became even more so by its refusal to own-up to 1971 warcrimes).

agree again w/jerebaub here
re:
"Anyway, Bush had already decided to remove Saddam prior to 9/11.

9/11 merely made it easier for him to do so."

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

WMD's were simply an excuse by the neoCONS (Wolfy, Perle, Feith, Libby and Wurmser) then pulling strings among the Bushies to take out Iraq and establish permanent American bases there to protect Israel... they had spelled out their agenda way back in '96 as the Project for the New American Century (PNAC):

http://www.csmonitor.com/specials/neocon/spheresInfluence.h tml
http://tvnewslies.org/html/pnac_neo-con_artists.html

They had tried to sell their agenda to Slick Willie Clinton back in '98, but he eschewed the idea... but Dubya/Presidente Jorge was more malleable and gullible.

Even as he allowed the wholesale invasion of America by millions of ILLEGAL aliens (including the perps of 9/11), he CHOSE the profligate, neoCON war against Islamics who were OPPOSED to Osama.

The other excuses given for the Iraq war were equally disingenuous/artful and facile-- half the oil is coming out of Iraq now; freedom of Iraqi's is really irrelevant to Middle Americans; they were NOT the source of so-called worldwide terrorism; Iraq had NOTHING to do with 9/11; the 1 billion+ Islamics mistrust us more than ever--> 90% continue to view us as a dupe and pawn of Israel.

Pakistan should take the lead...
Pakistan should lead an effort to wipe out the al Qaida adherents within their country. They should solicit the aid of India. (Of course, that will not happen but would not common sense and a sense of justice be good for once.)

reply to jerabaub
Like many Americans, you misunderstand the rational strategy of terrorism. For most Americans the bloodshed in Mumbai is just horrible madness, and the men who did it merely madmen and criminals. However, terrorism can be a very rational approach for getting desired results. Consider: it is likely that relations between India and Pakistan will worsen, and, as Buchanan explains, increase the chances of war between them. Terrorism is very cost-effective. For a very, very small cost (a few hundred armed men, or suicide bombers), a very large result may be produced. The world is awash with men and women who, motivated by religion or ideology, are quite willing to give their lives for a cause. The goal of an act of terrorism is some vastly larger result, such as the outbreak of WWI, as Buchanan explains. The US has already paid a very great price for its careless, thoughtless responses to 9/11. As a liberal, I am appalled that Obama has bought into the image of Bin Laden as a kind of super-criminal, like villains in a James Bond movie, who must be brought to justice, preferably before the last commerical break. A response was necessary for 9/11, but our leaders made some very bad choices that continue to haunt us.

What's the Point
Buchanan seems to be more interested in protecting the history books against giving terrorist ink than the right of sovereign nations to protect their National Interests. Clausewitz and his principles of war are as valid today as they ever were. No nation has to pussyfoot around what is right, for what is acceptable by other nations or expedient to printed praise. If Pakistan is responsible and India can prove it to India's satisfaction, then war should follow. No Nation should ever accept death of its citizens if that death is perpetrated or sponsored by another nation. A first strike nuclear exchange in this case may be understandable. If it is and India cowers, they will be hit again.

rivenburg (addendum)
The second sentence of my previous post should read:
They always thought it was a mistake, just like Russians think that an independent Ukraine is a mistake.

Let's hope
that cooler heads prevail in Mumbai than prevailed in Congress after 9/11.

I assume that if Stratfor and Pat Buchanan can figure out the intentions of the terrorists to inflate tension between Pakistan and Inida, those in positions of authority in New Delhi can as well.

Deacon
War must be prosecuted as war without regard to the niceties of civilization. Muslims have been defeated in history and then gone virtually benign for hundreds of years. Muslim countries have been conquered and Muslims have been driven from countries they occupied for several hundred years. History has the examples. If only 5% of the Muslims are radical, there are 60,000,000 of them. They cannot be defeated by killing them one or two at a time, that will not even dissuade them from the next attack. Special Ops soldiers sneaking around at night will accomplish nothing even if they could register an important kill here and there. In the parlance of the football announcer, another one will just "step up". To dissuade, you must kill their Mother, Father, Wife, Children, dog, burn their home, and lower the flag of the nation that harbors or supports them. Failing to take this approach will only guarantee more bloodshed and a protracted period of wincing as they force their will on us.

Warrior said:
'To dissuade, you must kill their Mother, Father, Wife, Children, dog, burn their home, and lower the flag of the nation that harbors or supports them.'

Our soldiers are limited by rules of engagement that would have given Patton a coronary. The war we are fighting is limited in respects to damage regarding collateral deaths and material like churches and secular buildings. The war we are fighting is teaching the radicals how to fight like we fight. The war we are fighting is costing us thousands of dollars to take out target worth a dime. The war we are fighting is presenting a large target for our enemies. The war you say we should fight is not the war we are fighting.

You are right that if we killed one of their leaders another would step up. But the new leader would be looking over his shoulder. Also, their talent for leadership doesn't run forever deep. Taking them out one or ten at a time would be slow but we would not have to support a 100,000+ land force in hostile territory. Also, these radical muslim prey upon their own people so we might gain support from moderate muslims if we were targeting the leadership of the radicals. If we killed everyone around the radicals we probably would make enemies of moderate muslims since terrorists tend to hide behind the innocent.

Pat Buchanan leaves out some history.

Pat Buchanan leaves out some history. In this article he sounds as if he advocates appeasement.

The Arch Duke was attempting to appease his critics in Serbia. He didn't live long enough to bring about his reforms.

"All that is needed for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing."

In our time, the good man, BUSH, has done something.

If you don't know what good Bush has done, then turn off MSNBC and get a real news source.

Great column
History lessons and insightful analysis. Really a rare treat on TH.

Buchanan would be a great history professor

The Rationale of Terror
Hello Pat: Michael The Preterist from Georgia here again. I just have to respond to the Ridiculous Comment from Ken of Pa. about G.W.(Go to War) Bush being a Good Man???? Are You Kidding ?? Are You that Stupid or have You Been Asleep The Whole Time G.W. (Go to War) Bush has been in office?? Is it a Good Thing that G.W. Single-handedly Destroyed the Constitution and the Bill of Rights of Every American citizen with the UnPATRIOT ACT?? What Utopian Dreamland are You living in??? You call that a Democracy?? Give Me A Break!!! I Doubt Our Founding Fathers would Agree with You!!! How safe has G.W. made Our Borders??? Please... And - look at All the money the Fiscal Republican Party has spent!!! Like a Drunken Bull in a China Shoppe!!! G.W. has spent more than All the Presidents in the History of the United States!!! Good My Hind End!!!

Michael from GA

I see you are one of the people I referred to in my post.

Well, Turn off MSNBC and find out.

Deacon
We fought 2 wars like we are fighting this one and one war like I suggest. We won one and the other 2 are now communist and one of them is now nuclear capable. In WWll we applied the Clausewitz principle of "destroy the enemies will to fight". We tried to kill everyone in his family and every one he had ever known--we tried to insure he had nothing to fight for or come home to. It worked for us, it worked for Alexander the Great, it worked for Ghengis Khan, it worked for the Roman Empire, and history is replete with other examples. What we are doing now may lead to a short period of peace followed by many countries under Sharia Law and Muslim domination. If I was Israel, I would keep my nuclear stockpile up to date and use it if my National survival were to become at risk.

So if India and Pakistan war...

It's Bush's fault ?

Don't worry Patrick... India (like Europe) will sit on their hands and leave the Islamic Killers free to box them in and destroy their freedom.

It is all about freedom, no?

Every time Islam attacks - freedom is removed from the ones attacked.

Therefore, Islam is the Anti-freedom.

Islam and Freedom cannot coexist.

One must be destroyed. Correct?



Sjpatejak:
re: Obama's citizenship. I wish Obama would end this nonsense by simply producing his birth certificate. It needs to show his birth in Hawaii and it must be the original. One it is authenticated by a documents expert, we can put this issue to rest. This is not a frivolous matter.

I'm just wondering why Obama refuses to prove that he is a natural born citizen of the US. Since we all know that he is... right?

Patsy Buchanan Has Problems
I wonder if he shares his idol, Hitler's physiological abnormality? It would explain a lot about Patsy's weirdness.

Heroic Pat Buchanan--
--does it again!

Terrorism is simply a tactic used by political forces that lack conventional military power. The purpose of terrorism is usually to goad a state into doing something that is against its long-term interests. Such was the case with the assassination of the Archduke. And such was the case with 9-11. Both acts succeeded fabulously for the terrorists.

In the case of 9-11, the US was goaded into a senseless invasion of a country that had nothing to do with 9-11, had no WMD's, and was an economic basket case. Invading Iraq had no positive outcome for the US.

Only Ron Paul, among Washington politicians, has been brave enough to point out the consequences of continual meddling in the affairs of nations on the far side of the globe. It's time to disengage from these foreign squabbles and follow the advice of the Founding Fathers: adopt of policy of neutrality in foreign affairs.

Unless we adopt such a policy, we will be bled dry by continuous warfare, putting out fires around the globe in squabbles that do not concern us. With a tanking economy and a cumulative national debt pushing sixty trillion dollars, we need to cut back on the federal government at all levels.

Pointless warfare is a good place to start.

Don't call terrorists "warriors!"
There's got to be another name for them. Warriors sounds way too good for the likes of them. Let your nay be nay and use proper descriptive words. Cowardly murderers is much better-- IMO.

Terrorist is thy name.
The Left and MSM, which may very well be one in the same, have been trying to redefine terrorism since 9/11. "Oh, let's be nice to those, who tried or succeeded in killing us. It wasn't really their faults, it was America's."

They are what they are... TERRORISTS! Further, it is our fault? Excuse me, but terrorists kill everyone that either disagrees with them or just happens to be collateral damage even if those they murdered were Muslims.

The psychobabble of the Left and their willingness to believe that terrorists only act because of what they "perceive" America has done to them is disgusting. Would they change their minds if they or their friends/family were subjected to terrorism? Many would, but others would continue.

Well, I say, they are terrorists. They weren't born because of Bush's actions. I don't think that Bush impacted the Palestinians, who killed Jewish athletes at the 1972 Munich Olympics. I don't believe that Bush caused the Breslin murders of hundreds of children in Russia. I don't believe that Bush was responsible for the first WTC, or the bombings that blew up the embassies in Tanzania and Kenya (?), or the USS Cole bombing, or the Khobar Towers mass murder.

A terrorist is a terrorist and better off dead.
They may be "homocidal maniacs", but THEY ARE, WITHOUT A DOUBT, TERRORISTS AND SHOULD BE TREATED THAT WAY. PERIOD.

Afterall, they can get the psychobabble after they are dead, but as for the 72 virgins, the terrorists may be out of luck. Hell may have fury like a woman scorned, but it doesn't specialize in Virgins.

Deepak
Pat is right, and like Chris Matthews, "I agree with him ninety percent of the time."

As for Mumbai, I disagree with Bill O'Reilly and Sean Hannity that Deepak Chopra is "blaming America." As Colmes said tonight, "Deepak's point was much broader than that."

And just what was Dr. Chopra's point?

As a practicing Catholic in the recent popes way of life and thought, I nonetheless strongly recommend Deepak's recent book, "Jesus." I stand by this man and his work. As a longtime TM person, I value personal responsibility over everything, everything else. Deepak is all about PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY! Read his books, and learn.

War on Terror
Dr. Deepak Chopra argues recently on TV that we "should stop using the phrase, 'war on terror'." I'd like to hear more about this. Our approach has indeed "kept us safe" for seven or so years. But the Islamists are not impressed. They are patient. Seven years, to them, is nothing. They were plotting, thinking, calculating, praying, imagining, hoping and praying...also gathering up their plans for the future.

What, in a creative sense, are we doing to counter their extraordinarily creative movement?

Dr. Deepak's suggestion, for starters, makes sense. Let's stop using the counter-productive expression, War on Terror.

Oreilly's accusation of a "touchy-feely" approach on the part of Deepak--Oreilly's opinion is itself Touchy Feely, that is, irrational and "feel good."

No Tolerance for the Intolerant
Subject: Does anyone know if ...?
the Mumbai terrorists managed to take and secure American or British hostages? I've tried to follow the stories and I was left with the impression that they didn't, but that doesn't make sense to me."

No, the Mumbai terrorists did not "secure" ANYONE, including Americans, Britons or the Jews (which included several Americans). Yes, there were 6 Americans and 1 Briton that were killed, but others either were shot or spent hours in terror while hiding. If you ask why the overall number fails to make sense, then the answer is that the jihadists don't discriminate. They secure no one. In fact, several of the terrorists hid among the hostages only to open fire on them later and many were Muslim and Hindus.

According to the terrorist, who was taken into custody, the plan was to kill, at least, 5,000 people. Terrorists do not "secure" anyone. They kill as many as possible when they have a chance...even if those people are Muslims.

Terrorists do not want to secure a peaceful coexistence. The aim of Jihadists is to 1) restore all countries that were once Muslim, even those where Islam ruled back in the 7th century, such as many in Europe like Spain and France; 2) or bring it to the US, UK and other Western States, except that, should we say "No", then they will destroy us; and 3) they want to impose their own definition of Islam on Muslim countries, especially countries like Turkey, Iraq, and, perhaps, even Jordan and Egypt.

Security is NOT an option for peace-loving people. No one is secure where terrorist thugs want to impose their own vision of what Islam is and where it should be practiced. We all make a grave mistake in believing otherwise. The "we" here is all peoples, including those Muslims that want no part of the radical Islamic agenda.

Warrior writes:
'If I was Israel, I would keep my nuclear stockpile up to date and use it if my National survival were to become at risk. '

Israel is in a tight spot as they have been many times in history. The difference this time is they can light the nuclear fuse. Given that they have at least 10 nuclear missiles you have to wonder which of the many targets close to them will have the Clausewitz principle applied to it. The fact that we do not know may be a missed opportunity for Israel. We kept USSR at bay because they knew we had our missiles focused on them. It might be a good strategy, for Israel, to name the locations that will glow brightly into that good night if Israel is pushed too far.

I still favor a limited kill the leader approach. Done properly it would leave the leaders no place to hang their hat and few people that would welcome them into their home. Our leaders are afraid of starting a kill the leader campaign because they would rather our brave men and women in uniform be the targets not they. Our military may be the last organization with honor for it appears to be in very short supply in politics.

Amen Pat
Nobody has a firmer grip on history that you my good sir.
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