Townhall.com, Where Your Opinion Counts
Talk Radio:   Bill Bennett   Mike Gallagher   Dennis Prager   Michael Medved   Hugh Hewitt   
BREAKING NEWS  LeftArrow - Townhall.com : Conservative, Political, Republican   RightArrow - Townhall.com : Conservative, Political, Republican  
Columns, funnies & more in your inbox!
  • Check the boxes and send us your email address to receveive your free newsletter
  • Your daily must-read of conservative columns, cartoons and news. Coulter, Sowell, Krauthammer and more.
  • Townhall.com’s weekly inside scoop on what’s happening behind the scenes in the world of politics. When news breaks, we report.
  • Signup to receive the latest daily Townhall cartoons
Friday, June 27, 2008
Pat Buchanan :: Townhall.com Columnist
Who's Planning Our Next War?
by Pat Buchanan
Vote on It:
Average Vote:
[+] Text [-]
 
Poll
Will the Dems' health care Christmas Present to America be an improvement or detriment to our health care system?


Of the Axis-of-Evil nations named in his State of the Union in 2002, President Bush has often said, "The United States will not permit the world's most dangerous regimes to threaten us with the world's most destructive weapons."

He failed with North Korea. Will he accept failure in Iran, though there is no hard evidence Iran has an active nuclear weapons program?

William Kristol of The Weekly Standard said Sunday a U.S. attack on Iran after the election is more likely should Barack Obama win. Presumably, Bush would trust John McCain to keep Iran nuclear free.

Yet, to start a third war in the Middle East against a nation three times as large as Iraq, and leave it to a new president to fight, would be a daylight hijacking of the congressional war power and a criminally irresponsible act. For Congress alone has the power to authorize war.

Yet Israel is even today pushing Bush into a pre-emptive war with a naked threat to attack Iran itself should Bush refuse the cup.

In April, Israel held a five-day civil defense drill. In June, Israel sent 100 F-15s and F-16s, with refueling tankers and helicopters to pick up downed pilots, toward Greece in a simulated attack, a dress rehearsal for war. The planes flew 1,400 kilometers, the distance to Iran's uranium enrichment facility at Natanz.

Ehud Olmert came home from a June meeting with Bush to tell Israelis: "We reached agreement on the need to take care of the Iranian threat. ... I left with a lot less question marks regarding the means, the timetable restrictions and American resoluteness. ...

"George Bush understands the severity of the Iranian threat and the need to vanquish it, and intends to act on the matter before the end of his term. ... The Iranian problem requires urgent attention, and I see no reason to delay this just because there will be a new president in the White House seven and a half months from now."

If Bush is discussing war on Iran with Ehud Olmert, why is he not discussing it with Congress or the nation?

On June 6, Deputy Prime Minister Shaul Mofaz threatened, "If Iran continues its nuclear weapons program, we will attack it." The price of oil shot up 9 percent.

Is Israel bluffing -- or planning to attack Iran if America balks?

Previous air strikes on the PLO command in Tunis, on the Osirak reactor in Iraq and on the presumed nuclear reactor site in Syria last September give Israel a high degree of credibility.

Still, attacking Iran would be no piece of cake.

Israel lacks the stealth and cruise-missile capacity to degrade Iran's air defenses systematically and no longer has the element of surprise. Israeli planes and pilots would likely be lost.

Israel also lacks the ability to stay over the target or conduct follow-up strikes. The U.S. Air Force bombed Iraq for five weeks with hundreds of daily runs in 1991 before Gen. Schwarzkopf moved.

Moreover, if Iran has achieved the capacity to enrich uranium, she has surely moved centrifuges to parts of the country that Israel cannot reach -- and can probably replicate anything lost.

Israel would also have to over-fly Turkey, or Syria and U.S.-occupied Iraq, or Saudi Arabia to reach Natanz. Turks, Syrians and Saudis would deny Israel permission and might resist. For the U.S. military to let Israel over-fly Iraq would make us an accomplice. How would that sit with the Europeans who are supporting our sanctions on Iran and want the nuclear issue settled diplomatically?

And who can predict with certitude how Iran would respond?

Would Iran attack Israel with rockets, inviting retaliation with Jericho and cruise missiles from Israeli submarines? Would she close the Gulf with suicide-boat attacks on tankers and U.S. warships?

With oil at $135 a barrel, Israeli air strikes on Iran would seem to ensure a 2,000-point drop in the Dow and a world recession.

What would Hamas, Hezbollah and Syria do? All three are now in indirect negotiations with Israel. U.S. forces in Afghanistan and Iraq could be made by Iran to pay a high price in blood that could force the United States to initiate its own air war in retaliation, and to finish a war Israel had begun. But a U.S. war on Iran is not a decision Bush can outsource to Ehud Olmert.

Tuesday, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs Adm. Michael Mullins left for Israel. CBS News cited U.S. officials as conceding the trip comes "just as the Israelis are mounting a full court press to get the Bush administration to strike Iran's nuclear complex."

Vice President Cheney is said to favor U.S. strikes. Secretary of Defense Robert Gates and Mullins are said to be opposed.

Moving through Congress, powered by the Israeli lobby, is House Resolution 362, which demands that President Bush impose a U.S. blockade of Iran, an act of war.

Is it not time the American people were consulted on the next war that is being planned for us?

Share:
Vote on It:
Average Vote:
 
About The Author
Pat Buchanan is a founding editor of The American Conservative magazine, and the author of many books including State of Emergency: The Third World Invasion and Conquest of America .
 
TOWNHALL DAILY: Be the first to read Pat Buchanan's column. Sign up today and receive Townhall.com daily lineup delivered each morning to your inbox.
 
©Creators Syndicate
Who is Planning a 3rd World War?
Mr. Buchanan, you mentioned that Pres Bush failed in North Korea. How come NoKor is now distmanteling the nuclear tower? Are you blind or refuse to give credit to the President? Media should be balance in their reporting and not one sided.
Ronnie

Can we spare BHO for a day?
If we could, he could just drop in on the big A and the mullahs. He would have all this resolved in a couple of days.

Apollo
"In an invasion of Iran its oil facilities would be secured by special ops forces to ensure the flow of its oil to the markets."

How are you going to secure Ras Tannurah and Al Qatif against an Iranian missile barrage? Or for that matter, secure the Strait of Hormuz? There is roughly a 2500 ft ridge dominating it. You don't think the Iranians don't have that ridge honeycombed with tunnels, bunkers and firing positions? But then again, anyone can make something work on paper. The Iranians aren't as stupid as the neocons.

Other than Ahmadinejad and some of his intemperate remarks, Iran's leaders have shown restraint unlike Olmert and Bush with their constant saber rattling.

"Could they serve as a model to Israel? Or is Israel the model for Iran and a city on a hill to the region?"

I couldn't care less about either one of them. You love Israel so much? Move there, if you aren't there already. They can always use agricultural workers.

By the way, the US has no defense treaty with Israel no matter what you and Bush might believe.

Paolo
I liked your post very much, especially the "slobbering all over themselves" part. Ain't it true.

Anyway, a slight correction if I may? These are not conservatives, as you mentioned in your post. They are liberal republicans once known as Rockefeller repubilcans (who are now in hiding like sissies behind the Neocons).

Neocons and Rockefeller republicans are aggressive war-mongering interventionists. They pick fights around the goble to please themselves, the bankers, and corporate giants who fund their party coffers and help them wield power.

They are imperialists.

Please don't blame the conservatives like Pat Buchanan, Phyllis Schlafly, and me.

Blame the disloyal American liberal Rockefeller republicans and their pals, the insipid neocons.

ApolloSpeaks
"Please tell us: what is it in the mullah's 29 year history that raises these doubts? Ask Buchanan the same question and you'll get a dumb silent stare."

I doubt that. Buchanan would make mincemeat out of you. The Iranians have possessed blood agents for years and haven't handed them over to anyone.

And then there the business we hear about how the Council of Guardians is corrupt and enriches itself at the expense of the Iranian population. How true this is I don't know, but I would say they live well and would prefer to continue to do so, rhetoric from the past notwithstanding. I'll take that chance in a heartbeat over a certain depression brought about by the destruction of oil facilities in the M.E. due to a stupid US attack. Israel isn't worth the loss of one US serviceman.

My advice is to find other sources than the lies printed by the Weekly Standard and to turn off the radio and do some serious reading. It isn't the Iranians who are hellbent on war. It is the Likudniks and their fifth column here in America.

As far as using the bomb goes, I put a much high expectation that it would be the Israelis, in view of the stupid and incompetent leadership they have.

A few things
"A country that small cannot withstand even a couple of nuclear strikes."

Israel has 300-400 nuclear weapons (about the size of the PRC's stockpile) and Iran has zero. If I was Iran with thousands of US troops next door and Israel with hundreds of nukes, I'd want nukes too.

"we've only GIVEN them every military asset they own and they've never bothered to even wish American Tax Payer's a simple THANK YOU."

Much worse, they sold weapons to China such as the Python III, traded information on the workings of the Patriot system, and sold or traded the intelligence Pollard gave them to the Soviets.

As for Iran giving nukes to terrorists or nuking Israel--doubtful. As I stated, Israel has 300-400 nuclear weapons, and Iran hasn't used other WMD on Israel or given those to terrorists. Remember Mao had the bomb from 1962 until his death in 1976, never nuked Taiwan did he? Stalin had it from 1949 until his death and he didn't use it either. But you'll all say the Iranians are all crazy, wasn't that what you all said about Mao?

While it would not the best thing in the world for Iran to have nukes, it wouldn't be the end of the world either. The DPRK hasn't spread its nuclear technology to terrorists, but the US ally Pakistan has.

Apollospeaks:

Iran's program is a weapons program. I guess how big of a problem that is depends on your views and what should be done about it. I wrote a good deal about that on Hawkin's column. No need to repeat it here.


"Weapons Grade"
At least one poster has said that Iran "continues to enrich U238 to weapons grade U235."

I would like to see some reliable documentation to support this. Don't bother: there isn't any.

The IAEA recently reported it has done nine unannounced visits to Iranian nuclear sites, done complete inspections, and found no evidence whatsoever of enrichment procedures to weapons grade.

The Iranians HAVE been working on enriching uranium to power reactor grade, however--something they have an absolute right to, as signatories of the Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT). Reactor-grade uranium, by the way, is approximately three percent U235; weapons grade uranium is over ninety percent U235.

ModMark
:D

Thanks, Mark! I'll drink to that and make it a Sam Adams, please.

Too late,
the neocons weren't intelligent enough to think about this, unless you belong to the school that believes that the mess over there is exactly what they wanted. But, hey, anyone can make something work on paper.

"Saddam's greatest fear leading up to the war was subversion by Iran, not a US invasion."

And this is a damn good reason to have left Saddam alone if you really are concerned about the Iranians or al-Qaida.

It's even worse...
"Just after the lightning takeover of Baghdad by U.S. forces three years ago, an unusual two-page document spewed out of a fax machine at the Near East bureau of the State Department. It was a proposal from Iran for a broad dialogue with the United States, and the fax suggested everything was on the table -- including full cooperation on nuclear programs, acceptance of Israel and the termination of Iranian support for Palestinian militant groups.

But top Bush administration officials, convinced the Iranian government was on the verge of collapse, belittled the initiative. Instead, they formally complained to the Swiss ambassador who had sent the fax with a cover letter certifying it as a genuine proposal supported by key power centers in Iran, former administration officials said."

More...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/0 6/17/AR2006061700727_pf.html

Needless to say, this offer was ignored by the stupid and ignorant ideologues known as the Neocons. The neocons aren't even fit or smart enough for a Risk game.

it's time for American to get back to
focusing on our own problems. israel can take care of itself. Hell - we've only GIVEN them every military asset they own and they've never bothered to even wish American Tax Payer's a simple THANK YOU.

good riddance israel. may you see a milisecond of light before your vaporization

Rush Limbaugh's fine cigars !!
Jerabaub....I think you and Liberty deserve one of those fine cigars too. I don't smoke myself so I will pass...LOL

Liberty and Jerabaub are correct !!
We as Americans had better start thinking about the economic bomb that could go off at anytime.

The Oligarchic forces are in place to bring America to her knees as they have intended all along. Whoever is President is likely to serve during the final fall and collapse of America.

Imagine that the New York Philharmoic had a cultural exchange with Pyongyang which precipitated the destruction of their nuclear reactors and agreement to cooperate with the west and Bush lifted sanctions the other day.

To bad this was not the kind of ongoing diplomacy our country would continue to employ with Russia, Iran and all the rest..Possibility
diplomacy.........what if Bush had done this all along.........might things have been different?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A53l8xOkPFw

Liberty
Quite true. Instead of worrying about a mythical Iran nuclear weapons program they bloody well better worry about the financial bomb threatening to go off in our back yard.

Well, as Limbaugh says "if we don't talk about it, it isn't important." The bulk of the posters here get their news and (dis)information from the radio or Fox, being too lazy to do some independent research.

Check this out from Barclay's, if you haven't already seen it. Note the link to RBS. These are two establishment banks warning about this, something some of us have been aware of for at least the last two years.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/2008 /06/27/cnbarclays127.xml

Rant
For those of you who are pounding your chest and drooling at our government starting yet another preemptive war... I hope you enjoy the depression, YES DEPRESSION, that our country is headed towards. I wonder how much you'll be chest-pounding, when you're standing in a soup line. In case you didn't notice, our country is headed towards a huge financial collapse. We've sat by and some have even cheered, while our elected representatives have raided the till, have given money not only to themselves, but every socialistic endeavor under the sun, have run up an unbelievable debt and when that wasn't enough for them, had the FED just create more money out of thin air. In case you don't realize it, whenever the FED reduces interest rates, they pump BILLIONS into the market, thereby devaluing every single dollar we now hold. Pure robbery.

So, if you're looking for someone to blame for this country falling, there's no need to look overseas, or even blame Pat Buchanan, who is trying to WARN YOU... go take a good long look in the mirror. Because YOU caused this..

Following posters get fine cigars:
Ryan 01, No Longer a Republican Smithington, Paolo, Buck.

There may be a couple of others deserving of the pleasant aroma and ambiance of a good cigar, but the above posters, for sure.

There are credible reports Kim Jong-il of North Korea has purposely allowed hundreds of thousands of his countrymen to starve to death...maybe even a million.

If that is true, which I have no doubt, and since that obviously means he values human life so utterly cheaply, why would he be any less dangerous than Ahmadinejad in Iran, who does not even make the decisions there(the Mullahs do)?

If he gets the bomb, why is he less dangerous than Ahmadinejad? He probably values life even less than Ahmadinejad.

If we can negotiate with a despot who oversees the deaths of hundreds of thousands of his countrymen, why can't we do the same with a frontman for the Iranian mullahs?

It was NOT the Iranian mullahs who started the Iran-Iraq war(which killed a million people).

It was the secularist thug Saddam Hussein.

In fact, the Iranians have not invaded any nation(some would argue they are sending weapons into Iraq...but they were sure as hell not doing that when Saddam was in charge).


Israel Must do Whats in her interest!!
First of all, the camel jockey president of Iran
does not call the shots. Its his boss the Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini. Also, I have never heard him say what he will do to Israel in English so it would have to be proven that he actually said some of the things suggested.

Israel can take care of herself and the middle eastern Arab nations have a lot of respect for Israel because they know what will happen if they try to mess around with her.

Its the same scenario...first it was the British and now its the Americans...just let Israel defend herself in case of an attack. Israel already has the bomb which was given to them by charles de gaulle because the massad uncovered an assasination plot to kill him.

Israel can take care of herself...the United States just needs to but out.

Heroic Pat Buchanan
When he is right, he is very right.

Iran, with a GNP the size of Denmark's, with virtually no air force, with a pathetic navy that is little more than a Coast Guard, with a poorly outfitted army, is no threat to anyone. Iran has not invaded another country since the days of the Founding of the USA.

As a libertarian, I am constantly astounded at the obtuseness of conservatives, who claim to be against "big government," yet slobber all over themselves in support of the biggest, most destructive government program of all: war.

the best thing for America is....
for israel to get nuked off the planet. Think about it... no israel... no problem.

Also israel will retaliate and attack iran. no iran... no problem.

Then the arabs can go back to fighting each other.

seriously - israel is an albatross on the necks of the American tax payer. We don't need you israel. I hope you vaporize soon. good riddance.

My allegiance is to America.

More tripe from Buchanan
Why does this triple loser continues to write his garbage? Who is his constituency. Go away Pat, no one cares what you think. Never really did.

Anna
Ahmadinejad gasses on about how Israel is headed off the map, and you're certain it's an immediate threat to use a nuke that probably doesn't exist.
Meanwhile, "Deputy [Israeli] Prime Minister Shaul Mofaz threatened, "If Iran continues its nuclear weapons program, we will attack it." This from a country with one of the largest nuclear arsenals in the world.
If you can't see that the latter is the far more imminent threat to unilaterally launch a war, then calling other posts "the stupidest thing you've seen" means you're not bothering to preview your own comments.
The best policy for Israel is several million Jewish emigrants to the United States. (Good for us, too.)


madison/anna
There are two countries that have the capability of being a threat to us – Russia and China.

But W the dufus got cought up in AIPAC and the likudniks.

In one of the dumbest moves in the history of diplomacy, he neglected our relations with Russia while he got us bogged down in a small desert country that don't amount to a hill of coffee beans, now he says to be concerned about a country that has no navy or air force.

The idiocy is enormous.

bmadison2007
"Buchanan is historically anti-Israel
And his bias has become obvious."

Buchanan is arguing from the point of view that the US should look after its own interest first. Israel is not a part of this nation, no matter what Gary Bauer might think.

"Sure, some things he writes could be true, but there is no reason to panic and blame everytihng on Israel, as Buchanan so often does."

If the shoe fits, wear it. The Likid party, Sharon and their amen corner over here have been hollering for this war for years.

"The plain fact is they are a tiny country, surrounded by Islamic fanatics hell-bent on destroying them, and they have every right to defend themselves. A country that small cannot withstand even a couple of nuclear strikes. So, they have to be pro-active. Somebody has to keep an eye on Iran, as the rest of the world is not doing so. Just as the UN is useless, Barrack Obama as President will be useless against the terrorists' plans."

The fact that the Zionists were stupid enough to insist on locating their nation in a sea of Arabs isn't my problem. They were warned against this. They made their bed, let them lie in it.

You want to get mad at someone? Get mad at those fools.

Oil yes, Israel no.


RW
This may be the stupidest thing I have heard yet.

"No one has offered any valid reason why Iran would launch whatever lonesome nuke it could cobble together at Israel,..."



Iran's Mehr news agency is reporting that Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad predicted this week the "satanic powers" - Israel and the U.S. - would be destroyed. He is quoted as saying, "I must announce that the Zionist regime (Israel), with a 60-year record of genocide, plunder, invasion and betrayal is about to die and will soon be erased from the geographical scene." He continued, "Today, the time for the fall of the satanic power of the United States has come and the countdown to the annihilation of the emperor of power and wealth has started...I tell you that with the unity and awareness of all the Islamic countries all the satanic powers will soon be destroyed."

Ahmadinejad also referred to the return of Mahdi, the 12th Imam of Shiite Islam, who will bring peace and prosperity for the Muslim world. "With the appearance of the promised saviour... and his companions such as Jesus Christ, tyranny will be soon be eradicated in the world," he said, implying that in his return is the annihilation of the U.S.


We should think he was just being ironic?

Israel will bomb Iran and they should. BTW Israel isn't going anywhere. They will stand until the end.

I can't wait until we have a quasi Moslem president.


remember the USS Liberty
Remember the USS Liberty, deliberately attacked by Israel because they did not want us to see what was going on there (the 1967 "six day war") aided with treasonous complicity by OUR OWN GOVERNMENT. Our leaders then ordered the help that the USS Liberty requested to be turned back.
Ever since we have allowed the tail (Israel) to "wag the dog" (United States). Our so-called "leaders" should have brought up on charges of treason for giving aid and comfort to a foreign country while placing our own military personnel in harms way.

Patriot
Pat is a true American patriot. He doesn't understand any American who doesn't put America and its citizens first. Israel will drag us into a war that is in their best interest. Simply, wake up America and stop this idea that we are the worlds policemen. We can't afford it monetary or with the lives of our young and bravest.

Patriot
Pat is a true American patriot. He doesn't understand any American who doesn't put America and its citizens first. Israel will drag us into a war that is in their best interest. Simply, wake up America and stop this idea that we are the worlds policemen. We can't afford it monetary or with the lives of our young and bravest.

Pat's gone a bone in his teeth.
Neither does Pat know how to read a map nor does he understand the operational limits of an F-15 or F16 with sufficient in-flight refueling support.



The End Of Civilization is Near
If Iran develops nuclear weapons, they will surely use them or provide them to a Islamic Fundamentalist group who will. It will be the end of civilization as we know it.

Buchanan is historically anti-Israel
And his bias has become obvious. Sure, some things he writes could be true, but there is no reason to panic and blame everytihng on Israel, as Buchanan so often does.

The plain fact is they are a tiny country, surrounded by Islamic fanatics hell-bent on destroying them, and they have every right to defend themselves. A country that small cannot withstand even a couple of nuclear strikes. So, they have to be pro-active. Somebody has to keep an eye on Iran, as the rest of the world is not doing so. Just as the UN is useless, Barrack Obama as President will be useless against the terrorists' plans.

Iran
"Let me take you back to November 4, 1979. The U.S. Embassy was attacked and taken over by Islamic Terrorists sponsored by the state of Iran. 52 United States diplomats were held hostage for 444 days."

I think he meant to say that Iran has not attacked another nation (without being attacked first) in over 300 years and it seems this is accurate. Menaing Iran hasn't invaded any of its neighbors and the like.

WLL From Texas...Was That Satire?
"Iran has, by some estimates, not behaved aggressively towards another nation for 300 years; by others, a millennium."

Let me take you back to November 4, 1979. The U.S. Embassy was attacked and taken over by Islamic Terrorists sponsored by the state of Iran. 52 United States diplomats were held hostage for 444 days.

In my world, that qualifies as aggression.
Your ignorance of recent history is appalling.

RW
"BTW, where is Shells??? She should be all over this thread."

I was thinking the same thing, where is TH's resident Israel firster-in-chief.


Israel
"we will see what this Democratic majority does or doesn't do .... for one of our allies."

With allies like this, I hope you don't have any enemies. It spies on you and then sells the information to your enemy the Soviet Union, it then sells high quality weapons to another potential enemy--China.

If Israel attacks Iran, then the US should let Israel take care of it. The US shouldn't have to get into a war the Israelis started.

Buchanan nails it
The REAL threats to launch a war in the middle east lately have been directed by Israel toward Iran, and not vice versa. No one has offered any valid reason why Iran would launch whatever lonesome nuke it could cobble together at Israel, other than "Because Iran is crazed, Islamic and eeeevil!" Sorry, world, but the entire middle eastern part of the world does not have to set its nuclear policies based on assuring that Israel feels "safe."
BTW, where is Shells??? She should be all over this thread.

Don't blame 'em
If Israel takes out Iran's nuclear facilities I don't blame 'em one bit. It only takes one of these WMD's to annihilate all of them and they are at far more at risk if they don't. It's their call and if they do, we will see what this Democratic majority does or doesn't do .... for one of our allies.



Iraq was a smoke screen
Israel has always been the real issue.Muslims and Arabs hate the USA because we defend Israel s right to exist.Islamic doctrine teaches that all the Jewish infadels must die and Israel must be destroyed.However because of the Iraq war,Americans have lost any motivation to get involved with another middle eastern war.I disagree with Pat on this issue,I believe Israel will be attacked but the world will stand by and not intervene.Once Obama is in office,and he will be,the USA will no longer be the worlds policemen.America needs to focus on our own problems,and after November,we will.

51st state?
Can we just get on with it and make Israel our 51st state, so we can at least tax them?

No?

Well then, lets just let Israel fight here own battles.


Exactly
"There is also the business with Pollard and the information he provided the Israelis traded to the Soviets that resulted in a number of agents being arrested by the KGB. The Pentagon still doesn't know the full depth of this treason due to the lack of cooperation from the Israelis."

That is the "spying" I was referencing in my post below. The Israelis also didn't tell the US about the Pythons and it wasn't until January 2001 when Wang Wei started buzzing the EP-3 flights the US became aware of the J8's carrying the Israeli Pythons. They also gave them the Patriot information without disclosing this to the US. And then of course was the PHALCON sale.

Pollard
There is also the business with Pollard and the information he provided the Israelis traded to the Soviets that resulted in a number of agents being arrested by the KGB. The Pentagon still doesn't know the full depth of this treason due to the lack of cooperation from the Israelis.

http://www.amconmag.com/2008/2008_06_02/cover.html

Oh and CVN
You forgot another type in your typology. The Israel-first types. Shells is a prime example of this, someone who even supports Israeli spying on the US--which in turn sold the information to the Soviets not to mention the arms sales of such items as the Python III air-to-air missile to the PLAAF, sharing information on the Patriot Missile system with the PLA and trying to sale a form of the AWAC to the PLAAF until US outrage was so great, Israel had to kill the sale. Such a patriot she is, no? And such a great ally Israel is that it would sell advanced weapons to a potential enemy of the US. I guess all the Israel firsters will change their minds when some F18 gets splashed over the Taiwan Strait by one of those Pythons one day, huh? No, probably not, in their mind, Israel can do no wrong, probably God's will or something along those lines. I bet Israel could sell China an ICBM and China could fire it into downtown LA and they wouldn't complain.

If the Saudis had sold advanced weapons to China, weapons the US helped them develop, people here would be jumping up and down like ants in a hot frying pan, but Israel does it and not a peep. Great patriots all.

When the Python III's came to light, Pat wrote that the US shouldn't sell Israel another bullet. Pat and I agree on little, but on this we are in 100% agreement.


A number of things
First, it is clear that Iran is developing nuclear weapons. It is rich in oil resources and doesn't need nuclear power to produce energy and the reactor is uses is much larger than one would need if it was simply to produce energy. It also doesn't need to an enrichment program for energy either--these are hallmarks of a weapons program.

Second, if you look at history of alliances it has often been the weaker partners that drag the stronger into war on its behalf. if Israel attacks Iran, the US should wash its hands of it if Iran responds in kind.

Israeli stockpiles of nuclear weapons are said to be between 300-400 about the same of the PRC's. If I was Iran, I'd be wanting a nuclear weapon (a few of them in fact). The US has already toppled on of the Axis of Evil countries with a preemptive invasion and would view the US failure to act on the DPRK is due to it having nuclear weapons. Also with Israel nearby with a large stockpile only adds to the Iran sense of being blocked into a corner.

Finally, the Iranian nuclear program is not controlled by Ahmadinejad but by Ali Khamenei. The president is basically a figurehead and it is Khamenei.

And CVN:

There is debate over if the Arabs were really about to attack Israel in May of 1967--that is the Israeli line. The Arabs did have forces near Israel, but Israel was threatening to attack them if the Straits of Tiran weren't reopened to Israeli shipping. Former Israeli foreign minister Eban later wrote that Nasser didn't plan to attack and this is clear from the conflicting orders he issued to his forces during the run up to the war. So who was a threat to whom in 1967 is a very open question.



You would have made a smarter President
for the country than how Bush has been doing at it. There's a lot to be said for electing smart Presidents. Like not engulfing the country in stupid wars that directly cause prices to go up on gasoline & by extension, everything else. I think we need a President that will consider the needs of THIS country first. Isn't there a way we can extract the oil without messing up the environment yet? Surely improvements must have been made in being able to do that so we could have both oil & scenic wildlife turf. If enough domestic oil could be extracted, could just leave the ME alone instead of having wars over there for their oil. Novel idea: minding our own business in our own country instead of getting involved in other country's business & making wars on them.

...
"With oil at $135 a barrel, Israeli air strikes on Iran would seem to ensure a 2,000-point drop in the Dow and a world recession."

This is an understatement. Getting involved with these lunatics was one of the worst foreign policy mistakes in US history.

Hey Pat, go back
under your rock and take Will with you. And also Mr. Jihad who does not use his real name.

Pat's Articles
Old Buck really brings out a wide range of political opinions; we have the "Fortress America" types, the anti-Israel types and then we also get the anti-semites. I agree with roadkill58, there have to be creative ways to destroy Iran's nuclear capacity without open warfare. WLL- I also remember Israel "grabbing and plundering Arab lands". It always happened when they were either attacked by Arabs (and kicked their sorry arses) or about to be attacked by Arabs. I seem to remember that Israel has given land back in exchange for promises of peace on multiple occasions. I also seem to remember the Israelis NOT kicking out the Arabs in the lands they have captured. Arabs can vote and hold office in Israel; is the same true for Jews in Arab lands? Israel has never threatened the very existence of any of it's neighbors, it has never threatened to kill every member of any society and it has never targeted women and children like the cowardly "Palestinians" have done.

will
Stick to the Gay Agenda. Your facts on the North Korean nucular timeline are wrong. NK never stopped working on it's nuclear weapons program after Saint Madeline Albright and Slick Willie negotiated an agreement to do so. They lied and Clinton lapped it up. After it was revealed that they were taking our offerings and sticking it in our faces, they brazenly declared that they would continue to do so. The only reason that they might actually stop now is that they have determined that they are not capable of making a bomb and are trying to get something out of it. Negotiations do not work when you are negotiating from a position of weakness or with a partner that has no intention of living up to their end of the bargain. Ruthless dictators that will order the execution of entire families can rarely be trusted to keep their word.

Iran and NAZIs
This country would have never let Hitler get the bomb in fact our rush to develop it was prompted by Germany's program. Letting these terrorist states get this weapon will make the world a far more dangerous place than it already is. Imagine the schoolyard bully with a .44 magnum. That is Iran and NK with nukes. the United States needs to look to its own security needs and not let the UN dictate them for us.

Mr. B. listen up!
The next war will be planned by the ruler of this world - The oil Cartel. Their plans were to rid two countries of ruling rergimes, Namely Sadam (Insane)who really neede to go but not for the reason they wanted and the head of power in Iran. Know why? Neither of these two countries would sign Henry Kissinger's paper on selling their oil in dollars.
Sadam is gone (thanks to the U.S. and Bush! and their next goal is Iran.
Oil rules the world Mr. B and those that control oil are the chief culprits motivated by Satan himself.

neocons may regret what they wish for.
On North Korea, I don't know if it already has the bomb.

I suspect it has.

Just a few years ago, the administration was saying we could never permit a "madman" like North Korea's Kim Jong-il to get a nuclear bomb, because he is nuts and can't be trusted to act rationally.

Yet now we are negotiating with him.

And even if he has the bomb, it is highly unlikely we will attack North Korea.

Today the administration is saying we could never permit a "madman" like Iranian's Ahmadinejad to get a nuclear bomb, because he is nuts and can't be trusted to act rationally.

The administration is on record as saying it will attack Iran if that is the only way to prevent it from getting a nuclear weapon.

What is the difference?

On North Korea, ok.

On Iran, no way.

Don't say it is because an Iranian nuke would jeopardize mideast "stability".

The Arab/Muslim street would react in rage toward us and Israel, were an attack to occur.

And it would antagonize Russia and China, perhaps even causing Russia to intercede on behalf of Iran.

It would poison our relationship with both.

A barrel of oil would be $400. Probably even more.

A world depression would likely occur.

Threats are one thing.

An actual attack is another.

North Korea is being take off the axis
of evil list because of.... yes, negotiations.

Negottations originally broke off in 2002 ("GWB: "You can't negotitate with rogue nations!"), which, of course, left unchecked, led to NK's further developing their nuclear program, developing weapons-grade plutonium. It is only now, via negotitations (again), back at the bargaining table, that the "rogue nation" is compromising.


DO NOT let this SOB president tell you, on the one hand, that negotiations don't work, while on the other, proving that negotiating do. He has been doing this tap dance far too long (telling his "conservative" base what they want to hear, then, doing what the liberals do).

Nuke Iran
Get on with it. It is inevitable that war with Iran will happen -- for both political and religious reasons. We now have Iran surrounded by our invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq. And Syria is under heavy scrutiny. Al Qaeda is on the run in Iraq. Syria and Iran are not dummies. They know the Democrats are supporting the terrorists by their criticism of Bush and the war in Iraq in their plan to have Obama gain the Whitehouse. But contrary to Pat's preventative hopes, Bush would be justified in supporting Israel if it attacks Iran!

irans bomb
iran's bomb,
that because israle does not say we will wipe you off the face of the earth, they do attack if the countrys fire rockets at them, and dont use nuclear bombs like they could. they stop people that start wars, so if they start wars and fire rockets at them, do you think that they will let them have a nuclear bomb.
they have never used one and are 100% more resbonsible than iran / syria.
thats why they have nuclear weapons.

Time to break the ties that bind
Iran poses no conceivable security threat to the USA. It has lousy armed forces on which it spends little, outdated weaponry and according to 16 of our own intelligence agencies it has no intention of making a nuclear weapon.

Iran has, by some estimates, not behaved aggressively towards another nation for 300 years; by others, a millennium. It is run by shrewd and cautious mullahs, not by the grandstanding Ahmadinejad, who may lose office next year anyway.

Israel has grabbed and plundered Arab territory for 40 years, has 200 or more nuclear-armed missiles which it conceals, plus the foruth biggest army in the world. Turkey, Egypt and Saudi Arabia have been brought to heel. If it thinks Iran is a danger, let it fight its own battles.

But according to the Jewish Daily Forward, American Jews give the Dems 40 per cent of their national funding and the GOP 20 per cent. Money talks with our corrupt Congress critters That is the dirty little secret, plus Jews' disproportionate presence in the mass media and the paranoia of a few crazy "Christian Zionists" praying for Armageddon. These factors explain why America carries Israel's water.

What a crazy way to conduct foreign policy. If we do not cut off the tail wagging our dog, it will cost us dear.

As the Founders said, we should abjure entangling alliances overseas. There is a word for Jews with US passports who think the USA exists to fight their kin's battles.

Iran's Bomb
First of all, Iran does not possess a nuclear bomb - they are (we are told) developing one. Israel has an estimated 22 to 300 nukes with missiles to launch them right now. They have had nukes since 1964.
Why doesn't somebody insist that Israel get rid of it's nukes? They are the only power in the Middle East with them.
Even if (years from now) Iran has the missile & a warhead to nuke Israel, they will also be killing the Palestinians & wiping out sites of the greatest religious importance to muslims.
Why do we let Israel jerk us around? The rest of the world knows that they have a miserable human rights record & it is a racist state.

leave bush alone forgods sake
leave the poor guy alone. hes is busy fighting his own party , who are deserting him in droves. the opposition who are enjoying every minute of his discomfort. and buchanan hes soft willed enough to hear the word war and start thinking that it is the voice of god speaking to him and start looking around for one. so lets at least not mention the possibllity to him, and just to get a litle insurance tell thoae who take the polls that speak to his popularity or lack of it to lie a little on the reaullt, pushthem up to say 30 percanr favorability. after knowing that thay might make bush feel a little better about himself, and a little lie wont hurt. we all know the real tuth.

Was this a good deal?

House Republicans blast Bush for North Korea decision

Was Bush wrong to negotiate with terrorist nation North Korea? Was this a good deal?

Politico-Several prominent House Republicans blasted the White House Thursday for removing North Korea from the list of state sponsors of terrorism, as some of President Bush’s staunchest supporters in the war on terror publicly lambasted him for engaging the country once famously branded as part of the “axis of evil.”

Rep. Ileana Ros-Lehtinen (R-Fla.), the top Republican on the House Foreign Affairs Committee, expressed her “profound disappointment” over the decision, while Rep. Pete Hoekstra (R-Mich.), the top Republican on the House Intelligence Committee, also expressed his outrage.

“Lifting sanctions and removing North Korea from the list of state sponsors of terrorism flies in the face of history and rewards its brutal dictator for shallow gestures,” said Hoekstra, who has not shied away from criticizing the White House in recent years.

“Just as the Clinton administration was fooled by the Kim Jong-Il regime, time will soon tell if the Bush administration will fall for the same bait,” he added.

read more

http://controlcongress.com/uncategorized/house-republicans- blast-bush-for-north-korea-decision

iran war
you dont need evidence of iran makeing nuclear weapons, they preity much say that they will, but say not for weapons, but say they will wipe israel of the face of the earth, but the only way they can do that is with a nuclear bomb, so you dont need any evidence, its clear what they intend to do.
all you have to do is hear what they say to no what they want to do, so if america goes into iran or bombs them and there is no nuclear bombs, or they where not trying to make any, it will be iran's fault.

it only takes 1 bomb to wipe israel off
israel is so small that 1 bomb (WHICH IRAN ALREADY HAS) 1 only is sufficient to rid the ME of its problem, ok it probably won't happen (only americans are UNCIVILISED stupid enough to use the bomb) but iran will never ever cease to fund the resistance everywhere in the ME,
AND NO ONE CAN DO NOTHING, CERTAINLY NOT ISRAEL
MUUUUUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

Poor column, cards to play and Will
More doltish posting by Will who like a male dog has to leave his mark where he can.

The USA and Israel have cards to play. Iran has as much to lose, and in fact much more should war break out. This has been a game of chicken, the Israelis will probably make Iran blink. If Iran does not blink, the time begins. Iran will be defeated, and her surrogates and jihadists will waste themselves as in Afghanistan and Iraq.

There will be pain, but Iran will not get the bomb. TelAviv will still have a gay nitelife and, Will I am sure, will be on his knees under many tables in the future.

If Israel is in such a panic to attack
Iran, then let Israel attack Iran. But the United States should not get involved (we have a full plate, thank you very much).

I happen to love Israel. I love the thriving gay culture in hip Tel Aviv. Israel is a haven of western attitudes and democracy. But the U.S. cannot throw the trillions of dollars and additional years and innocent deaths and public acrimony into yet another middle-eastern war.

Iran is battle we cannot win. The entire middle east would get involved (against us). It would be years and years of unending jihad. Has Iraq taught us nothing?
Sign Up to Post Your CommentsSign Up to Post Your Comments
If you are already registered, click here to login. Otherwise, please take a few seconds to register with Townhall.com. Once you sign up, you’ll be able to post your comments immediately, use the action center, get podcasts, and more!
Note: Fields marked with a red asterisk (*) are required.
Salutation:
First Name:
*
Last Name:
*
Email:
*
Nickname:
*
Note: Nick name will be shown when you post comments.
Address 1:
*
Address 2:
City:
*
State:
*
Zip:
*
Phone:
      
Your daily must-read of conservative columns, cartoons and news. Coulter, Sowell, Krauthammer and more.
(Bi-Weekly) We highlight the best opportunities from our partners for surveys, action items and more.