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Tuesday, May 06, 2008
Pat Buchanan :: Townhall.com Columnist
Is It Jaw-Jaw or War-War?
by Pat Buchanan
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Will the Dems' health care Christmas Present to America be an improvement or detriment to our health care system?


Is war with Iran inevitable, even imminent? Or is peace at hand?

From the public diplomacy of the administration, either conclusion may be reached. Consider.

"West Offers Iran 'Refreshed' Deal," ran the headline in the May 3 Washington Times. The story described an offer to Iran, agreed to by all five members of the Security Council -- the United States, Britain, France, Russia and China -- of a sweetened grand bargain, if Tehran will suspend its enrichment of uranium.

Blessing the offering in London was Condi Rice.

Details will not be made public, but the offer is said to include Western aid to Iran for a civilian nuclear program, a light water reactor and a five-year stock of enriched uranium held for Iran by the International Atomic Energy Agency.

America's contribution would be support for Iran's admission to the World Trade Organization, a conference to discuss regional security in the Gulf, a U.S. offer to sell Iran spare parts for its U.S.-built civilian aircraft and a beginning of the lifting of three decades of U.S. sanctions.

News of this offer, plus the relaxed mood in Washington, which is utterly unlike the tense atmosphere prior to March 2003, suggests that war with Iran is far from the mind of this city.

But to take the warnings and threats of the civilian and military leaders of this administration at face value would lead one to conclude the opposite -- that war with Iran is indeed inevitable, and probably soon. Consider.

Last month, Gen. David Petraeus was asked by Joe Lieberman, "Is it fair to say that the Iranian-backed special groups in Iraq are responsible for the murder of hundreds of American soldiers and thousands of Iraqi soldiers and civilians?"

"It certainly is. ... That is correct," answered the general.

The next day, Petraeus testified, "Unchecked, the 'special groups' pose the greatest long-term threat to the viability of a democratic Iraq."

Petraeus has since been promoted to command of all U.S. forces in the region.

Secretary of Defense Robert Gates, known as an opponent of war on Iran, followed Petraeus, accusing Tehran of being "hell-bent on acquiring nuclear weapons." Last week, Gates was out front again. "What the Iranians are doing is killing American servicemen and -women inside Iraq."

Adm. Michael Mullen, chairman of the Joint Chiefs, is now also pounding the war drum. Iran's "irresponsible influence," its support of terror and its pursuit of atomic weapons, he said last week, is creating a "perfect nightmare" for the region. The Pentagon, said the chairman, is planning for "potential military ... action" because of Iran's "increasingly lethal and malign influence."

"It would be a mistake to think that we are out of combat capacity," Mullen declared. A second U.S. carrier just entered the Persian Gulf.

CBS reports that a target list of U.S. military planners includes the headquarters of the Quds Force and plants where Iran produces enhanced IEDs and the rockets used against the Green Zone. The network also reports that the State Department has begun drafting an ultimatum.

U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations Zalmal Khalilzad has chimed in: "Iran and Syria must stop the flow of weapons and foreign fighters into Iraq, and their malign interference in Iraq."

Iraqi Maj. Gen. Qasim Atta says 700 rockets and mortars have been fired at Coalition forces and the Green Zone, and most of the "Katyusha and Grad rockets and smart roadside bombs" were Iranian-made. The U.S. military is preparing a dossier on Iran's role in the Iraq war.

In the Landon Lecture at Kansas State, CIA Director Michael Hayden declared, "It ... is the policy of the Iranian government, approved to the highest level ... to facilitate the killing of Americans in Iraq." That day, State designated Iran the "most significant" and "most active" state sponsor of terror on earth.

From the White House to State to the Pentagon to CIA, the Bush administration is now singing from the same song sheet: Iran's Quds Force, with the knowledge of President Ahmadinejad, is arming and directing "special groups" to kill U.S. soldiers and prevent a U.S. victory.

Is the White House rattling sabers to prod Iran into talks?

Perhaps. But the administration has also painted itself, and us, into a corner with the war talk. And there are only three ways out.

The first is that Iran halts the attacks, ends its intervention and negotiates on the six-nation offer. The second is that Iran rejects the deal, refuses to stop the attacks and U.S. air strikes begin.

The third is that Bush is bluffing and goes home railing against an axis-of-evil nation killing American soldiers, having done nothing.

With Israel, the Israeli lobby, the neocons and Dick Cheney insisting on air strikes, and even Hillary Clinton talking about Iran being "obliterated," the last course would seem the least probable.

We are likely headed either for negotiations with Iran or war, after Bush returns from the 60th anniversary celebration of Israel's birth.

"To jaw-jaw is always better than to war-war," said Winston Churchill in 1954, whose career often contradicted his wise counsel.

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About The Author
Pat Buchanan is a founding editor of The American Conservative magazine, and the author of many books including State of Emergency: The Third World Invasion and Conquest of America .
 
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©Creators Syndicate
So What?
Wise up. We have been at war with Iran for almost thirty years. Only question is what level of intensity will be involved.

The mullahocracy itself cannot survive unless it makes war on both the US and Israel.

Blockade Iran and let them sell no oil to anybody until they clean up their act. Iraqi oil can make up the slack. This will work, just a question of how long it will take.

While waiting, deter any thoughts of their using nukes to break out by the expedient lend-leasing
a boomer to Israel. Multiple-warhead Polaris'
in IDF hands and safe from any first strike will work wonders.

Isolate them and their dreams of a Persian caliphate vanish and an ethical Iran is likely to emerge.

Pat stands at the Islamist side
of conflict.

Pat Buchanan always told that the US policy at the Middle East was controlled by "Israel Lobby".

The so called "Israel Lobby" is ... a Vast Majority of the American People:
___________________________________________

Gallup Polls on American Sympathy Toward Israel and the Arabs/Palestinians

Gallup Poll results of the most consistently asked question regarding American public attitudes toward the Middle East: "In the Middle East situation, are your sympathies more with Israel or with the Arab nations?"

Israel|Arabs
year - %|%


1967 56 4
...
1970 44 3
...
1980 45 13
.....

1991 64 8
....
2000 43 13*
2001 51 14*
2002 55 14*
2003 58 13*

_________

Middle East Sympathie. Feb. 6-9 2006. The Gallup Organization, Princeton, NJ

by Religious Preference
Israel % / Arabs %

White Protestants
63 / 14

White Catholics
64 / 13

White other religions
Israel % / Arabs %

66 / 10

White no religion
Israel % / Arabs %

45 / 19

__

by Party Affiliation
(2002-2006 Aggregate)
Israel % / Arabs %

Republicans
72 / 11

Democrats
47 / 20

Independents
49 / 16

____

by Ideology
(2002-2006 Aggregate)
Israel % / Arabs %

Conservatives
67 / 11

Liberals
43 / 25

Moderate
52 / 16
___

by Race
(2002-2006 Aggregate)
Israel % / Arabs %

Whites
58 / 14

Blacks
40 / 24
__________________________________

Top the List of Countries Seen as Our Closest Allies, According to Harris Poll

How American People Rank the US Closest Allies


1. Great Britain
2. Canada
3. Australia
4. Israel
5. Japan

6.Mexico
7.Italy
8.South Korea
9.Germany
10.Sweden


The Harris Poll® #70, September 14, 2005
http://www.harrisinteractive.com/harris_poll/index.asp?PID= 600
______________________________________________


http://conservativevalley.blogtownhall.com/2007/02/05/who_a re_you,_mr_buchanan.thtml

for some reason, we're short of friends
If the U.S. could convince major Arab/Muslim states in the region to go along with a military strike, a VERY limited air attack might be in the offing.

But it has obvious risks.

How much would such an attack on a "brother" Muslim state inflame the area, which already is antagonistic towards us? Would it be a recruiting tool for terrorists?

Iran would likely respond by increasing its mischief inside Iraq. How many more deaths and injuries to our troops would be attributible to Iranian retaliation, and are we prepared to pay that price?

How would the government of Iraq itself respond? I think we already know it very close to Iran. Would an attack result in the two governments becoming even closer?

Iran would likely try to target oil tankers sailing thru the strait of Hormuz, thru which much of the region's oil(including Iraq's)must transit.

What would that do to already skittish oil markets? Would a barrel of oil suddenly be $500, $1,000, or more?

What does that translate into at the pump here at home? Would that guarantee a further economic slowdown or deepen a recession?

What would be the political consequences on the election in November?

Maybe Bush will launch the attack after the election, minimizing its effect.

Unless the Saudis and others in the area sign on, I don't see this thing happening.

This administration has not lifted a finger to stave off the radical devaluation of the U.S. dollar, which is a major reason why the cost of gasoline is so high at the pump.

Saudis rebuffed Cheney-Bush pleas to put more oil in the system, which in my opinion is their way of displaying total contempt for this administration.

They along with all other Muslim states were against the invasion.

They have not lifted a finger to help out on Iraq.

Their view is we made this mess, and we must deal with it on our own.

Who Made Up The Rules?
I can have a nuke, but you cannot. Further, I am going to do everything short of invasion to prevent you from doing so. If that doesn't work, I will invade you. The same goes for any country, that I disapprove, of having any weapon of mass destruction like the ones I have. Certainly, I do not want Iran and its nuts having any such things. But where is the logic in trying to sell this cr*p. Bush and friends would love to invade Iran. Perhaps the same could do a similar lousy job as it did in trying to conquer Iraq. Tell me again about the "Shock and Awe " show put on by Bush and company that was designed to put the bad guys out of business.

Pat:

No one has painted themselves or us into a corner. You are getting sloppy in your old age.

It was Jimmy Carter being a chicken just like you want President Bush to be now that gave the world the anti-American cesspool of Iran.

Everytime I read one of your ignorant isolationist treatises, I thank the Lord that your presidential bid strategy came from the same lame brain that produces these cowardly calls for surrender.

It is up to The People
The only hope for peace for humanity is to have the logical, peace loving people of every nation stand up and say "Enough". The Iranian people need to find the courage to stand together and tell their government that escalation of compiling weapons of mass destruction does not solve the issues. And the far-right needs to step back and realize you cannot change people's minds at the point of a sword. Threats do not work against the U.S., and threatening others only builds resentment. The key to resolve this issue is to vote in a President who understands the mindset of radical people. At this point in time, only John McCain is qualified to negotiate with the mujadeen who has hijacked the people of Iran.

Rightviewpoint
"The so called "Israel Lobby" is ... a Vast Majority of the American People:"

Right up until the shooting starts. BTW, you sure seem to have a lot of time on your hands. Or is this what you do for a living?

TeeHall:

Since Adam took his first breath, whoever has the greatest power makes up the rules. That's the way it has always been and is the way it will always be.

We justify making the rules and enforcing them because we are the nation with the best civil and moral code.

Other systems of government are not equal to ours and we are justified in not allowing nations with inferior systems to do things that might threaten us or those we deem to be our allies.

You TeeHall, are suffering from the dangerous ailment of "moral equivalence". Here's a free sample of antidote:

- The United States is exceptional.
- We have the best Constitution.
- Our sense of right and wrong is the best.
- Our sense of individual liberty is best.
- Our Judeo-Christian ethic and tradition is best.
- Our capitalism and free enterprise are best.
- Socialism is bad.
- Communism is worst.
- Non-Islamic ethics and traditions are not as good as ours.
- Islamic ethics and traditions are worst.

The United States of America is the greatest and most powerful champion of the individual and nations that respect the individual's rights to Life, Liberty and Property (i.e. "the pursuit of happiness").

If you do not want to accept American Exceptionalism you are encouraged to emigrate to another country.

Team America rocks! We have the most fun and most opportunity. And you should be very, very grateful that we have the BEST military the world has every seen, that we set the rules and that we enforce them.

The only reason you would think otherwise is because you have been duped by enemies within our country in academia and the media and because you are naive and inexperienced. If you had any experience living in other countries -- which I do -- you would not be questioning American exceptionalism.

Please, get on the team or get off the floor.

Bush will Bomb
I've been predicting that McCain will bomb Iran within the first 100 days if he becomes president - provided Bush doesn't Bomb first.

Based on Bush's arrogance and dismissal of public sentiment, he may well Bomb in order to forestall the choices of a Democratic president.
This is a truly despicable act of hubris and tyranny should he do so.

It will be N A T O
The sarky version "no action, talk only".

DEMOCRAT SUCCESS STORIES

.....Truman lost China and got us into Korea - we still have two Communist foes ...

.....JFK botched the Bay-of-Pigs - we still have a Communist Cuba ...

.....LBJ botched Vietnam - we still have a Communist Indo-China ...

.....Carter helped topple the Shah in Iran and we are still dealing with a hostile enemy ...

.....Democrats have given us a suicidal Energy Policy that keeps us dependent on foreign oil and now both Obama and Hillary want to punish our own oil companies ...this is truly a Ship of Fools .....COLOSSUS

good insight
Pat again pisses off liberal NeoCons

Cato
"If you do not want to accept American Exceptionalism you are encouraged to emigrate to another country."

With global Pax Americana the rule, your choices no longer apply.

Proud Liberal
So lets wait until the Iranians have a weapon or two and then watch the Iranian-Israelie War using nuclear weapons on CNN. This should be "no problem" since both are on the other side of the world. In my way of thinking if this nuclear conflict gets started there will be catastrophic unintended consequences as well as economic and humanitarian disasters. But not to worry, the liberals/UN will stop all this by talking both sides to death.

Drew: Pre-Emptive war is immoral
He who thinks God is on our side is a fool.

There's no good choices. We have to take risks. I say we take the risk of not killing innocent people and see what happens.

Our ability to predict the future is close to zero.

Boutte and TeeHall right
Boutte and TeeHall correct. Our news, and thus our views, are so controlled and manipulated as no news adverse to Israel can be published in mainstream media here, and our government supports it. Witness USS Liberty and more recently inability of Walt and Meireshimer (sp?), Harvard and U. Chic. professors, to get their article published here. The title of Chomsky's pamplet, Media Control: The Spectacular Achievements of Propaganda, says it succinctly.

With coordinated articles by neocons to advance their agenda directly and indirectly, our populace is controlled and in a way, mentally ill. Most of world terrorism is set up by Israel, and often with assistance of our own agencies. Read Synthetic Terrorism by Griffin Webster Tarpley. (9/11, London's 7/7 point that way, and FBI superstar John O'Neal reportedly fired for suspecting Israeli involvement in USS Cole bombing--and subsequently hired as head of security of Twin Towers on eve of 9/11, mysteriously disappeared for couple of days prior to 9/11, but whose body was found intact in ruins of 9/11.)

Enmity toward Muslims and promotion of torture and use of nuclear weapons are contrived. Fit that in with latent love of Marxism, New World Order, globalism rather than nationism, money from outsourcing over rights and needs of citizens,and total contempt for laws that they do not like, such as immigration, and then it is hard to envision the same country. And a de facto enslavement and loss of freedom ensues. However, when the top 3000 journalists and top 3000 politicians are all in thrall, it is difficult to get any different perspective. Protestant churches generally have run off "thinker" Sunday School classes, in favor of "circles of love", and the country has suffered immensely due to that, in my judgment. Thanks for reading.

baseballdoc
"Democrats have given us a suicidal Energy Policy that keeps us dependent on foreign oil."

What, exactly, did the Republicans do to get us off of foreign oil when they were in charge of DC from 2001-2006?

Didn't Ike 'cut and run' from Korea in 53?

Drew
"But not to worry, the liberals/UN."

What did Bush and the Republicans accomplish from 2001-2006 when they had total control of the levers of power in DC?

Didn't Bush accomplish jack squat with North Korea? doesn't North Korea have enough plutonium to make 100 a-bombs?


Leftist History Let Me Count the Ways:
Boutte wrote: "Iran has not made war on another country since 1739, by some prudent estimates"

Except for:

The Persian Expedition of 1796 (A defensive war fought againt invading Russians)
The Iranian/Ottoman War (the Battle of Erzeroum) 1821
The Iranian Invasion of Russia 1826
Multiple coups/intra-military fighting 1900 - 1958.
The "Revolution/Civil War" 1978 - 1979
The Iranian Hostage Crisis: 1979 - 1980 (Overt act of war upon US Territory.)
The Iran Iraq war 1980 - 1988
Iranian Support for Terrorists vs. Israel 1980- present
Iranian Support For Terrorsists in Iraq 2005 (ca) - Present

But hey, who is counting!

Energy independence
Leave Arabia; leave Persia; build 50 new oil refineries in America, start drilling in the Gulf of Mexico instead of letting China, Cuba, and Mexico control those resources. Let Russia and China become the primary customers for Persian Gulf oil.

Give Israel better weapons. Let them control their war zone.


Ooops I Almost Forgot ...
Boutte ... your swastika is showing.

The Nazis Are Out in Force Today ...
Ain't it sad how chic good old fashioned anti-semitism has become on the left?

another round of kool-aid, if you please
Iran is as much as fault for the Iranian-Iraqi war in 1980s, as the United States was during our war with Japan in WW2.

I think even history has been sufficently altered by the neocons(not yet, anyway)to deny that it was Iraq, not Iran, who initiated that war.

I am no apologist for Iran, but let's be clear.

The Iranians were our great and good friends for most of the Cold War.

In fact, we helped to bring about their government in the early 1950s.

We cared so much.

The Shah was our man in Tehran. We counted on him. Iran was of crucial importance to us, as it bordered the USSR, and had huge oil deposits...this mattered greatly, especially during the Cold War when the USSR was extending its influence in the mideast.

As for some of the other alleged Iranian "interventions" around the globe, it might be interesting to catalog the number of Iranian involvements in "hot wars" around the globe, and compare that figure with the numbers of U.S. "interventions" in hot wars during the same period.

Don't get me wrong.

The current Iranian clique is autocratic, theocratic. I am not defending it.

And we may often may have been totally justified in many of our interventions over the last 50 years.

But to portray Iran as a warmonger is to swig too carelessly on the neocon slop.



p.s.
2nd paragraph should include the word "not" between "has" and "been".

Re: Proud Liberal
You do realize we've been taking the risk of not killing the bad guys for more than two centuries and these yahoos be they called persians, iranians, arabs or what have you have been murdering Americans for those two centuries. What is it with liberals that they don't understand it's not the country as much as the sect of Wahaabism that is the problem. It's the same rational used by the Barbary Pirates to attack, murder and kidnap US merchant sailors, Egyptian nomads in kidnapping and murdering American women and children in the early 1900's, the same philosophy espoused by the lunatics attacking and killing people in the Phillipenes during the 1910's. The same rational that then named Persia joined with the Nazi's during WW II and changed the name of the country to Iran (Farsi for Aryan). Basically, by the history of the wahaabist philosophy adherents are going to murder Americans for a whole raft of excuses but the reason is because we aren't Islamic. Want to stop the killing convert the whole country to an Islamic Theocratic state with forcible conversion on pain of death to Islam. Then these wack jobs will be happy. Until then we either kill them or they kill us. Pretty much that simple.

I guess as most liberals more than two centuries of not fighting back isn't enough. How many more thousands of dead Americans will it take to satisfy your blood lust, Proud Liberal?

Fivo
"start drilling in the Gulf of Mexico."

All three presidential candidates are against it.
The Republicans had their shot from 2001-2006 but were more interested in passing their pork and too many conservatives end up whining too much about the filibuster. Face it, the Republicans passed everything that was important to them, like more Big government.

Americans obsession with horsepower, size and status need to fall out of favor for the car shopper. We need to get addicted to driving small cars. Face up to it, stop the whining, do something, use less gasoline.

Iran
King Liberal. I do not believe I said we go to war tomorrow nor do we have to go to war at all. The Iranians are several years away from operational weapons/delivery systems. The next president will have to deal with the Iranian problem unless they precipitate otherwise. My point is Clinton did nothing about the North Koreans or Ben Laden while there was a relative period of international calm in which to act. Both democratic candidates (if either wins in November) promise more of the same. (Yes, I know what Hillary said, its called pandering.) The situation will fester until the Israelies act. We can either assist them or stand aside. (Remember the Falkland Islands, Reagan, and England) Whatever we do or not do, the train wreck is coming. Any discussion needs to take this salient point into account.

Agent Crawfish
"The Nazis Are Out in Force Today..."

"The OBSESSIVE ZIO-NAZIS are out in force today..."

There... fixed it.

Drew
yeah, with oil approaching $122 a barrel, do you really think that we are sticking it to Iran and Hugo?

yeah, Clinton gave N. Korea millions of tons of rice. Under Bush we gave those millions of tons of rice to S. Korea and then they gave it to N. Korea. Big Woop!

N. Korea, under the Bush administration, now has enough plutonium for 100 nuke bombs.

crazy logic
so all you pro-Iran-Ahmadinijead folks here really think that if we just leave Iran alone, everything will be alright? These theocrats are sill stoning people to death for having pre-marital sex. The fact that you go to just lengths to defend them says a lot about who you are.

JR RW aka The Tin Foil Hat Club
JR wrote "Most of world terrorism is set up by Israel, and often with assistance of our own agencies. Read Synthetic Terrorism by Griffin Webster Tarpley. (9/11, London's 7/7 point that way, and FBI superstar John O'Neal reportedly fired for suspecting Israeli involvement in USS Cole bombing--and subsequently hired as head of security of Twin Towers on eve of 9/11, mysteriously disappeared for couple of days prior to 9/11, but whose body was found intact in ruins of 9/11."

You guys are not only a Nazis ... You're really, really, really dumb Nazis.

Jerabub ....
I am assuming that your defense of Iraq with respect to their roll in the Iran Iraq War of the 1980s was meant as a riposte to my calling into question Boutte’s comment to the effect that
"Iran has not made war on another country since 1739, by some prudent estimates."
For the record I would agree with your point that Iraq is better described as the aggressor in the Iran Iraq war. However, Boutte's comment makes no mention of who started what … only that Iran has not made war on another country since 1739. This is an assertion so silly that it could not go unremarked upon.

Moreover, and finally, as others have pointed out in this thread Iran has been “at war” with the United States since 1979 … regardless of what “prudent estimates” may be.

Cordially:

AC

for jerabaub
jerabaub asks: "What would that do to already skittish oil markets? Would a barrel of oil suddenly be $500, $1,000, or more?"

The estimates I've heard are that a total cutoff of oil from Iran due to war, would drive the speculative price of oil up to around $300 per barrel.

Which would likely double gasoline prices here in America ($6.00 per gallon or so). Stagflation comparable to the 1970s would be unavoidable.

We would also face opposition from the Europeans, who import oil from Iran, and who don't have our significant domestic oil reserves to fall back on in an emergency. (France gets half their oil from Iran.)

ZIPPITY DOO DAT

.....You are being disingenuous ...

.....Republicans could not get a 60 vote majority to override Democrat filibusters ...except for a few RINO's all Republicans voted to drill in Anwar and open up off-shore drilling tracts ...

.....Ike ran on the promise to get us out of the Korean mess that Truman created ...just as Nixon promised to get us out of the mess in Vietnam that LBJ created ...

.....Republicans are always bailing out the Demoboobs and the Demoboobs are always trying to create a Socialist State ...it is only the Republicans who have stopped them so far .....COLOSSUS

ZIPPITY DOO DAT

.....Are you one of those Green Geekoids? ...

.....I am a charter member of HATE - "Humans ARE the
Environment" ....

.....Our creed is that humans are superior to animals
and insects and need to be in charge of the Planet
...we believe that man improves the Environment while
eco-nuts and green-geeks are harmful to man ...

.....Our mission is to hunt and eat endangered species
thus helping Nature to eliminate the weak while we,
the strong, survive ...it is the green geekoids that
try to break Natures Law ..."Survival of the Fitest"
.....COLOSSUS

.....SUPPORT GLOBAL WARMTH - CO2 IS GOOD FOR PLANT LIFE ...

Israel
King Liberal. I do not believe the Arab countries will ever make peace with Israel because any leader that did would be killed. Anwar Sadat did and died. At one of the peace conferences Clinton sponsored between the PLO and Israel, Arafat got agreement on every item he demanded, to include sharing Jerusalem as the capital, and he declined. He did so because he knew if he signed his own people would kill him. What some on this site do not seem to understand, there will never be "peace" between Israel and the Arab world until Israel is wiped off the face of the Middle East. That said, Masada shall not fall.

Israel II
Buck. I guess you just do not get it. The United States has tried numerous times to negotiate peace in the Middle East. Failure. Why? Because we will not abandon Israel to the tender mercies of the Arab world. So, either you are happy with playing the role of Pontius Pilate and really do not care about another holocaust or you are just abysmally stupid.

Extremists

While isolated prosecutions of Israeli spys continue, in recent years our professionals in state department and pentagon who had a balanced view of mid east have been run off and replaced by rabid Zionists. Admiral Fallon viewed neocons who wanted to nuke Iran as “crazies” who must be kept out of control, but GWB recently replaced Fallon as Chief of Central Command and put Petraeus in charge, who is reportedly Jewish, and apt to give the neocons the green lights they desire.

For many years, Israel was high on our country’s list of worst human rights abusers, due to collective punishment and torture. It was also regularly high on our annual list of worst nations in world for 1) theft of intellectual properties of all types, military secrets, medical, musical, etc. and 2) money laundering of monies from criminal activities.

Our bureaucrats are so afraid of Israel that they are afraid to charge it with wrongdoing (for notifying targets of wire taps in advance) and our newspapers on occasion have been afraid to publish its name, instead calling it country A. The NYT has reported that our government has most often failed to charge Israel with violations of agreements.

Extremists in charge of any country can do immense damage.

God is not on the side of the aggressor. The peoples (i.e. nations) derivative of Ishmael, Abraham’s son, also received God’s blessings, and the miracle of the well of Zemzem at Meccca (God’s miracle gift), where Abraham later helped Ishmael build a sanctuary (the predecessor of Kaaba). This is an important link between the Jewish, Muslim and Christian religions. Muslims to this day, repeat the prayer of Abraham when approaching their holy city.

A Yiddish proverb says that when business is bad, start a fire and sell fire hoses. The arms business has been selling (creating) terrorism and taking our money and our freedoms. The excuse to attack Iraq was contrived and pretexts are being made for more wars.


Just a clarification Buck
Buck, when you refer to the "NeoCon Israel agendists", are you referring to JINSA specifically or is it a broad referrence to Jewish nationalists?
As a conservative I find that liberals, in particular, like to paste the term NeoCon on anything they wish to denigrate. The intended impact of that is usually lost on me because 9 times out of 10 its just silly.

baseballdoc
ouch!, please calm down.

Republicans have gotten America and Americans addicted to spending more than they earn with....

increasing pork barrel projects from 3,000 to 14,000 per year.

They added, yet another entitlement spending program, costing $45 billion a year.

They doubled the size of the department of Education.

They got us into a radical-liberal social engineering project in the middle east costing $150 billion a year. Don't forget the mantra, "When the Iraqis stand up, we can stand down."

All this orgy-spending was paid for with tax cuts in a time of war. We have become addicted to spending more than we earn. And it has become a big shame. No wonder the dollar is tanking.







There is no Evidence!
There is ZERO--repeat, ZERO--evidence that Iran has any nuclear weapons program whatsoever! Iran has barely started a nuclear fuel enrichment program, which it has every right to do under the Non-Proliferation Treaty. Intrusive International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) inspections have revealed...absolutely nothing.

The Bush Administration lied about every excuse (not "justification") for going to war in Iraq. It is now repeating the same exercise regarding Iran.

The creeps running the Bush Administration are certifiable, megalomaniac nut cases. I just hope to God we can manage to stay out of their wet-dream fantasy of yet another war on the far side of the globe.


A Nice Piece Of Land
Hey Paolo. If you and Alice ever bust up and you have to make a change and get out of Wonderland; I've got a nice spot right on the beach in Nebraska. Interested?

Iran
"...sweetened grand bargain, if Tehran will suspend its enrichment of uranium..."

"Details will not be made public, but the offer is said to include Western aid to Iran for a civilian nuclear program, a light water reactor and a five-year stock of enriched uranium held for Iran by the International Atomic Energy Agency.

America's contribution would be support for Iran's admission to the World Trade Organization, a conference to discuss regional security in the Gulf, a U.S. offer to sell Iran spare parts for its U.S.-built civilian aircraft and a beginning of the lifting of three decades of U.S. sanctions."



We don't have anything they want or need. This will never end diplomatically. I don't see any reason to doubt the nutjob when he says they want to wipe the little satan off the map and then the great satan.

I hope we don't get involved in another conflict. Israel doesn't have that luxury. They will bomb Iran eventually.


Someone said we need to pressure Israel to get along with their neighbors. The only thing Israel can do accomodate her "neighbors" is to cease to exist.

For any moron who thinks it's OK to throw Israel under the bus in order to "improve" our relations with the nutjobs in the ME you are dreaming also. We are infidels and our pathetic "Christian" nation is the only thing standing between them and world domination. There will never be peace.



Hey, Butt

The USS Liberty WASN'T sunk.

We'll add that to your other lies.

Baseballdoc
You wrote ".....Democrats have given us a suicidal Energy Policy that keeps us dependent on foreign oil and now both Obama and Hillary want to punish our own oil companies ...this is truly a Ship of Fools"

You mean Cheney and the representatives from the major oil companies who wrote our current energy policies (behind closed doors) are democrats?! I am pretty sure Cheney is not a democrat. I can't say one way or the other about the oil company representatives since their identities are still top secret.

For whoever said we can shut down Iran's oil export business and make up the missing supply with Iraq's oil. I am afraid not. OPEC now decides how much oil Iraq can sell and just like Saudia Arabia won't (or can't) increase their output to ease our pain they will not enable or allow Iraq to do so either.


Hey, Buck

Every country has spies in every other country: for every Israeli spy in the United States, the United States has a spy in Israel.

Someone must pay you to talk like a fool you do it so diligently.
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