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Friday, March 28, 2008
Pat Buchanan :: Townhall.com Columnist
Uprooting the New Racism
by Pat Buchanan
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In his Philadelphia address on race, Sen. Obama identified as a root cause of white resentment affirmative action -- the punishing of white working- and middle-class folks for sins they did not commit:

"Most working- and middle-class white Americans don't feel that they have been particularly privileged by their race," said Barack. "As far as they're concerned, no one's handed them anything. ... So when they ... hear that an African American is getting an advantage in landing a good job or a spot in a good college because of an injustice that they themselves never committed ... resentment builds over time."

On this issue, Barack seemed to have nailed it.

But then he revealed the distorting lens through which he and his fellow liberals see the world. To them, black rage is grounded in real grievances, while white resentments are exaggerated and exploited.

White resentments, said Barack, "have helped shape the political landscape for at least a generation. Anger over welfare and affirmative action helped forge the Reagan Coalition. ... Talk show hosts and conservative commentators built entire careers unmasking bogus claims of racism while dismissing legitimate discussions of racial injustice and inequality as mere political correctness or reverse racism."

What Barack is saying here is that the resentment of black America is justified, but the resentment of white America is a myth manufactured and manipulated by the conservative commentariat. Barack is attempting to de-legitimize the other side of the argument.

Yet, who is he to claim the moral high ground?

Where does this child of privilege who went to two Ivy League schools, then spent 20 years in a church where racist rants were routine, come off preaching to anyone? What are Barack's moral credentials to instruct white folks on what they must do, when he failed to do what any decent father should have done: Take his wife and daughters out of a church where hate had a home in the pulpit?

Barack needs to reread the Lord's admonition in the Sermon on the Mount: "And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?"

Longshoreman philosopher Eric Hoffer once wrote that all great movements eventually become a business, then degenerate into a racket.

That is certainly true of the civil rights movement. Begun with just demands for an end to state-mandated discrimination based on race, it ends with unjust demands for state-mandated preferences, based on race.

Under affirmative action, white men are passed over for jobs and promotions in business and government, and denied admission to colleges and universities to which their grades and merits entitle them, because of their gender and race.

Paradoxically, America's greatest warrior for equal justice under law and an end to reverse racism is, like Barack, a man of mixed ancestry. He is Ward Connerly. And his life's mission is to drive through reverse discrimination the same stake America drove through segregation.

And when one considers that the GOP establishment has often fled Connerly's cause and campaigns, his record of achievement is remarkable.

Connerly was chief engineer of CCRI, the 1996 California Civil Rights Initiative, Proposition 209, which outlawed affirmative action based on ethnicity, race or gender in all public institutions of America's most populous state. Two years later, Connerly racked up a second victory in Washington.

In 2006, Connerly went to Michigan to overturn an affirmative action policy that kept Jennifer Gratz out of the University of Michigan, though she had superior grades and performance records than many minority students admitted. The Michigan proposition also carried and has been upheld by the courts.

One U.S. senator, however, taped an ad denouncing Connerly's Proposition 2 in Michigan and endorsed affirmative action for minorities and women. That senator was Barack Obama.

Comes now the big test. Connerly is gathering signatures to place on the ballots in Nebraska, Arizona, Oklahoma, Colorado and Missouri -- the latter two crucial swing states -- propositions to outlaw all racial, gender and ethnic preferences. Voting would be the same day as the presidential election.

"Race preferences are on the way out," declares Connerly.

Now that our national conversation is underway, Barack should be asked to explain why discrimination against whites is good public policy, while discrimination against blacks explains the rants of the Rev. Wright.

America is headed for a day, a few decades off, when there will be no racial majority, only a collection of minorities. When that day arrives, if some races and ethnic groups may be preferred because of where their ancestors came from, while others can be held back because their ancestors came from Europe, America will become the Balkans writ large.

Folks need to be able to separate the true friends of racial justice from the phonies who believe with the pigs on Orwell's Animal Farm -- that "all animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others."

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About The Author
Pat Buchanan is a founding editor of The American Conservative magazine, and the author of many books including State of Emergency: The Third World Invasion and Conquest of America .
 
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The sad story of Obama
You comment that Ward Connerly, like Barak Obama, is part white/part black. In reality, almost all African Americans are part white. Certainly this is true of Obama's Pastor -- he is certainly not a pure African Hutu or Xhosa, or even a mix of just African tribes.

Of course, many "whites" are part indian, or even part black. It is sad, because part of the "promise" of Obama was that he was beyond all the rhetoric and baloney. Unfortunately, not true.

Wouldn't It Be Wonderful?
Race is a state of mind. Some time ago the history channel tracked the posterity of Thomas Jefferson and black Sally Hemmings. One branch of the family considered themselves black, the other white.

They looked very similar. To me they all looked like Italians. Dark hair but not black skin.

My tall, blond, blue-eyed Norwegian friend wanted to get her children into a coveted charter school, but found the only remaining slots were for black children.

She simply declared her blond, blue-eyed children to be black and got them in. Apparently there is no medical test for race. You are what you say you are. Who is qualified to challenge you?

Wouldn't it be a relief to eliminate all racial distinctions and be done with it?


K.G.
"Wouldn't it be a relief to eliminate all racial distinctions and be done with it?"

****

Sounds great, but people are who they are. If
race were eliminated, they would find another
reason to distrust, envy, or hate.




Interesting Article
What will America look like in 25, 50 and 100 years? What will happen if Whites do become a minority? Will affirmative action have ended? Will we still have a military? What about the advance of Islam? Will the principles of conservatism still be around or will we all have succumbed to liberalism and look to the State to take care of us?

I know, lot's of questions, but I am truly concerned for the direction of this country. It doesn't seem too long ago that there really was an American spirit and an American dream. I only find that feeling in conservative circles and that circle is getting smaller by the day. Will conservatism stand the test of time?

Buchanan
I have several niggling problems with this column.

1) "What Barack is saying here is that the resentment of black America is justified, but the resentment of white America is a myth manufactured." I think you are overstating here.
I am quite sure that he was not absolving either
side.

2)"this child of privilege who went to two Ivy League schools." I think that calling him a
child of privilege is a real stretch. His
biological father left him, his 2nd father didn't
remain on the scene. He was raised by a rather
dithery mother and a set of grandparents, who
we are told, weren't crazy about black people.
Spare me such privilege. What he had going for him was good looks, charisma, and high intellect.

3) I think that before people condemn Obama for
staying with the Rev. Wright, they should at least attempt to understand where he was coming
from. Obama has stated, and others assert, that
Rev. Wright was his father figure. They were &
probably still are very very close. Obama has
said something on the order of "I could not
possibly leave him." This is not an un-admirable
quality. If Wright is indeeed his father figure
when the other fathers were out of his life,
why should or would he leave him. There are
certain bonds that go beyond politics or almost
anything else. I have often asked myself, could
I still love my own kids if they had done something really horrible, like kill someone. The answer is yes. I would still love them, I
would still stand beside them. That does not
mean that I approve of the act or even think that
they should go free. It means only that I would
still love them and still stand by them.

If I am understanding Obama correctly on this point, I think he deserves my admiration, not my
condemnation. And yours too.

Obama’s Former Pastor Getting $1.6M Home
Sure has been kept down by those evil white men hasn't he.

http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/03/27/obamas-former-pasto r-builds-a-multimillion-dollar-retirement-home/

viruddh
We white folks understand it very well, you are a bigot too.

Talent Scout
We white folks understand it very well, you are a bigot too.

*****

You may be right, but I would like you to tell
me why you so.

viruddh writes:



You state this:

Obama has stated, and others assert, that
Rev. Wright was his father figure.

They were &
probably still are very very close. Obama has
said something on the order of "I could not
possibly leave him." This is not an un-admirable
quality. If Wright is indeeed his father figure
when the other fathers were out of his life,
why should or would he leave him.

There are
certain bonds that go beyond politics or almost
anything else. I have often asked myself, could
I still love my own kids if they had done something really horrible, like kill someone. The answer is yes. I would still love them, I
would still stand beside them. That does not
mean that I approve of the act or even think that
they should go free. It means only that I would
still love them and still stand by them.
---------

You seem to support and excuse the racism of both Obama and his preacher.

No man chooses his father, but everyone chooses his preacher.
Our children cannot be likened to choosing our pastor.

Its ridiculous.

There is no excuse for what Wright teaches and only a bigot would support him and/or excuse him.

viruddh
Why does the military come up in this discussion? Because the left opposes the military. I am convinced they would abolish it if given the power to do so.

Why the discussion of Islam? I'm not talking about Islam in the USA, but worldwide. Radical Islamists hate the USA. How advanced will this philosophy be in 50 years?

Thank you for explaining to me that conservatism is about people seeing themselves as better than others. For some reason I didn't view it that way, but thanks again. I always thought conservatism was trying to be the best I can be and that the American dream provided that for everyone. Should Bill Gates not have been amply rewarded? Where would we be without the Internet? I am very happy digital cameras were made available to the public at a reasonable cost. I do not care that someone made a boatload of money for bringing that technology to the market. People of all colors succeed in our country. You seem to be implying that only certain people and certain races succeed at the expense of others. I don't see it that way. If we don't have that then conservatism truly will be dead in 50 years and then the question of what the world will be like is valid.

Your last statement about providing the resources so the State can take care of us still means liberals want the State, rather than the individual, to take care of us. You also imply that it is okay to be forced to help others. I give a good chunk of my salary to charitable causes and I do this because I believe it is the right thing to do. That, to me, is the essence of conservatism. Being able to choose to give a donation and not being forced to do so.

viruddh
Obama chose---was not born to, this father figure. Note the significant difference. He apparently was an adult when he met Jeremiah Wright, not a new-born baby.

Therefore, of all those from whom he could have sought guidance, he identified with a man who preached racism against white people and damned America.

His attempts to explain, to deny the facts, will not be accepted by "thinking" people...

any more than they will be duped by Hillary Clinton's blatant lies.

Put Blacks first without qualification
This is Barak's theological belief. Why then are you amazed at his voting record? Anyone who still doubts that Barak is not a believer in the black liberation theology is either a lobyst or damn.

viruddh, Obama is privileged
Based on the definition of privilege i.e. upper middle class, having a loving family, and having all the opportunities that lead one to run for president - Obama is privileged. So his bio. dad abandoned him, but his grandparents took over. Many kids are raised by grandparents for many reasons so this is not a disadvantage, it is better than foster care. His grandparents seem to distrust black men because they watched as their son-in-law abandoned their grandkid - that is good reason to distrust black men, however, they went past their fears and raised a "black grand son" when many others may have put him up for adoption. Unlike his step siblings who live in Kenya - Obama has had every advantage needed to succeed by enrolling into top notch schools and running for public office. He is not a victim, he is a privileged american. Too bad he does not love this country because his option was to grow up in Kenya and/or Indonesia and then he would really know what it's like to be a victim of circumstances. I know, I am an immigrant. God Bless America!

The Right to Associate,The Right to Vote
Obama has the constitutional right to associate with whomever the choses. Americans have the constitutional right to vote for him or reject him based on his associations.

talent scout, I want a 1.6M disadvantage
Based on Wright's sermons, the blacks are being kept down by "the white folks". If being down means having a 1.6M home upon retirement, sign me up please. Calling all whitemen who want to keep me down in a 1.6M dollar home. LOL! These victims of circumstances keep getting richer. Remember the Obama's earned 1.7M in 2006, yet Michelle's speech includes the repeated lie "every woman I know is struggling" - if millionaires are struggling, what are ordinary americans supposed to do?

Cyclist
Are you for real!!!

1) the left does not oppose the military. They
oppose using it to quickly and too freely. Big
difference.

2) "Radical Islamists hate the USA." Somebody
always hates the USA. That has been true from
the beginning.

3) "Are you under the assumption that only
Conservatives attempt to be the best that they
can be?" I have no problem with Bill Gates or
anyone else being awarded, even amply so, for
what they have done - as long as the do not assume that those who work under them and help
make it happen are expendable peons. The fact
of the matter is that here in America we are one
of a group of four countries that have the highest income differentiation between rich and
poor in the world. You may think that is OK. I
do not. The other three are Russia, China, and
either Brazil or Mexico. I think it is Mexico
with Brazil not too far behind.

4) "still means liberals want the State, rather than the individual, to take care of us." How
does the State take care of us. We ARE the state. We pay the state to make sure that no
"child" is left behind. The State is not now,
nor (I presume) in the future will be paying my
health care bills. I buy insurance (pardon me,
my employer buys my insurance) so that I can
afford to go to the hospital if I get sick.
So far, I have not had to go to the hospital so
my portion is paying for other people's expenses at this point. Some day I may be on the receiving end. This is what insurance is all
about. And trust me, I am not going to cry me
a river if you don't like being forced to buy
this type of insurance. I live in a state where
buying car insurance is mandatory also though
it doesn't go through the state. I don't cry
about that either.

Talent Scout

(You seem to support and excuse the racism of both Obama and his preacher.) I don't support or
excuse the racism of the preacher. I don't think
Obama is a racist.

(No man chooses his father, but everyone chooses his preacher.) Most people choose a church;
preachers come and go. (Our children cannot be likened to choosing our pastor.) I wasn't likening them to choosing a pastor. I was
stating that some bonds are stronger than others.
I know that people dump other people all the
time - especially marriage partners, but also
children or parents or others that should typically be cemented for a life time. Obama has
chosen not to do that. I find that admirable
given their particular relationship. Maybe I
am a pollyanna. So be it.)

(There is no excuse for what Wright teaches and only a bigot would support him and/or excuse him.) Again, I am not supporting Wright. I am saying that I believe that Obama is not a racist.

I am not voting for Obama his fall. I am voting
for Hillary. But it sickens me to have people
slander a good and honorable man.

If it turns you on to call me a bigot, have at
it. Trust me. I am not going to lose sleep
over it.

Harmony
Where did you come up with that name?

What do you think of the late great Rev. Falwell?

Sarah
"Anyone who still doubts that Barak is not a believer in the black liberation theology is either a lobyst or damn."

***

Can I be both a lobyst and a damn.

Obama not admirable, viruddh
How admirable is the following:

When white leftists were looking for someone who could recruit the gullible in a poor black neighborhood in the south side of Chicago, half-white Obama answered their help-wanted ad for a "black" "community organizer." Admirable?

Needing a political base to advance himself, the non-religious, white-raised Obama attached himself to a black racist church to gain street cred, even though he now says he doesn't actually agree with its racist, hate-America viewpoint. Admirable?

Obama subjected his innocent daughters to Wright's virulent racist hate indoctrination for the sake of currying favor with his political base. Admirable?

When his association with Wright's racist church threatened his quest for power, Obama denied he ever knew Wright held racist and anti-American views (!) and shoved his loving and sacricing white grandmother under the bus. Admirable?

Obama took a $300,000 bribe from Syrian extortionist Tony Rezko to buy a home, and at least $200,000 in "contributions," but only reluctantly returned $85,000 once he was caught. Given it's inherently subterfuge nature, we're also safe in assuming that for every $1 of graft we know about there is at least $10 we don't. Admirable?

I could go on . . .

Viruddu
you try to bring in balance. Everything isn't black or white. Excuse the pun.

Michael
Are you under the assumption that your post is
admirable?

"half-white Obama" He is also half-black, and
he is probably more "half" black then most in
America because his father came from Kenya which
has many more purely black than we do. But
why are we wasting the space on this silly argument. They hired him, knowing without a shadow of a doubt that he was not all-black.
This is a huge so-what.

His political base, if that was in fact what he
was after, did not turn out to be so ardently
black until very recently. Until then, the
mucky-mucks thought he wasn't black enough. It
was the white old ladies in the midwest (like my mother)who got the ball rolling on his campaign.
And let me guess - I'll bet you threw the first
sentence in the second paragraph in there without
really knowing it to be a fact.

If Obama is telling the truth in his book, but
why should we believe him because everyone knows
he is not only racist but a liar, he says that
early on going into politics was not on the
agenda at all and his wife was also very much
against the idea, up until very recently. I'll bet she has gone back to her original
idea on it by now.

"we're also safe in assuming that for every $1 of graft we know about there is at least $10 we don't." Are we, now? Well, then by all means
let's spread the word. Who needs proof anyway?
By the way, just what was that first $ of "graft"
anyway?

Let me ask you something. What have you subjected your poor innocent children to lately?
Maybe, this kind of propaganda? Oops, sorry,
"brilliant and well researched reasoning."

Ward Connerly for Nobel Peace Prize.
Hard to argue against Buchanan's reference to Eric Hoffer comment, "All great movements eventually become a business, then degenerate into a racket".

Why does Jesse Jackson come to mind? Race hucksters and race pimps regularly "shake-down" businesses, not unlike the actions of mobsters.

Following up on the Eric Hoffer observation, Buchanan correctly opines: "This is certainly true of the civil rights movement..begun with just demands for an end to state-mandated discrimination based on race, it ends with unjust demands for state-mandated preferences, based on race".

Ward Connerly deserves the Nobel Peace Prize for his efforts in trying to end the odious practice of preferential treatment based on race.

to viruddh
To the child of a southern bricklayer/small-church baptist preacher and a public school teacher, yes, Sen. Obama *is* a 'child of priviledge'.
He was raised with far more money, social contacts, educational and economic opportunities than I.

But that is the point. I have been able (even though lacking in family money, genius and charisma) to make a decent and thoroughly satisfying little life for myself and my family. Those with more drive than I have done considerably better. Am I 'priviledged' just because I am white? Because THAT is the assumption that underpins the concept of 'black resentment'.

Finally, one certainly might claim that at least I didn't have to suffer the burden of bigotry that some black people face. Yet the real power of bigotry is **vastly* less than it was (when black crime was much lower), and the economic straits of the vast majority of black families have nothing to do with *immediate* bigotry. They are partly the expected result of statistically low family stability, and partly the result of historical factors of which slavery and institutionalized oppression are two rather historically-distant factors.

Such factors are not without power. But they can be overcome and are NOT exclusive to any one race.

Jesse
once admitted that if we used the standards once used by the purveyors of apartheid, everyone in America would be registered as Coloured.

The quibble now is to find out who is Black Enough.

Obama had to hang with Homies to prove he might be Black Enough, and to gather around him the kind of people who see a wealthy man with an elite education and every possible advantage and believe his words and not their eyes --that he is a disadvantaged Victim of Whitey who is justified in sticking close to those who want to man the barricades and bring the revolution.

If Generation Whine had not learned everything it knows from Oliver Stone and teevee, he could never have got this far.

Jesse may be an unabashed con man and shakedown artist, but he does now and then let the mask slip and admit that he knows its all snake oil. The worrisome thing about Obama is that he believes he is a disadvantaged ghetto dweller and can never be anything else.

What Wright has Wrought.

what color is your soul?
Virrudh -

I do understand where Barack is coming from. Where is he going to TAKE us is the only thing of any value in my vote.

I know what color our souls are. The rest is what we deal with when we are born.

BTW - so you can decide how to respond to my comments:

I'm Nancy
I'm a grateful recovering alcoholic

Deal with life on life's terms...

what color is your soul?
Virrudh -

I do understand where Barack is coming from. Where is he going to TAKE us is the only thing of any value in my vote.

I know what color our souls are. The rest is what we deal with when we are born.

BTW - so you can decide how to respond to my comments:

I'm Nancy
I'm a grateful recovering alcoholic

Deal with life on life's terms...

Just a pro doing his thing...
Obama is a politician, and thus, a professional con man. His comments are targeted to garner the favor of blacks and guilty white liberals. That's his target audience.

The guy's not in the game for his ideology and certainly not for the good ole USA. He's been bread to become a professional politician. I laugh everytime I hear someone take him seriously.

Now you would think that John McCain would be targeting the conservatives who don't buy into the oppressed blacks/white guilt thing but noooooooooooo! He's going around sounding more like Obama than Hillary does.

Maybe Ann Coulter was right. Maybe Hillary is the least worst choice this time around.

Affirmative Racism Only Half
The other half is blacks blaming all their problems on nonexistant racism. They ignore their immoral, anti-education, redneck culture.

Rejecting this reprobate culture is amounting to being "white". Exactly!!!!

Be "black" and end up in poverty and/or jail. Be "white" and be a success. This is not rocket science. It doesn't take a hugh school graduate to figure this out..... Well.... maybe it does.

Pure Comedy Gold
The Cyclist writes: Friday, March, 28, 2008 1:57 AM
viruddh
Why does the military come up in this discussion? Because the left opposes the military. I am convinced they would abolish it if given the power to do so.

It is posts like these without "sarcasm" tags that get Cons in trouble. When i first read this, I thought Cyclist was serious. Then I realized that nobody is that far right.

virrudh
you simply take a bunch of things Obama has done and run it through your skewed mind to convince yourself it is ok.

If you would take a look back at any of the things Obama has done that were mentioned above and replace 'black' with 'white' you might see what is really going on.

The racism today is forced racism forced mainly by the Blacks. They DO have affirmative action to fall onto if they do not have the credentials.

K.G.
That is a great idea, I think I am going to start to do that if possible. According to non-religious we are all from africa are we not? lol

inthemajority
take a look in the past and you will see his statements aren't very far from actual history.

Carter weakened our military so much Regean had to basically rebuild it.

Clinton also did the same thing and that is why we have such a high budget now for the war. Rebuilding our military

CKHustler
OK, gotch ya. Now I understand the completely warped mind of the Con. Impossible to discuss anything that does not involve insane hyperbole. Clinton raised the budget on the military to prove he was just as "strong" militarily, and we get:

"... the left opposes the military."

Idiots. Pure and simple. Idiots. Like Obama is a Muslim. Just amazing.

"I am convinced they would abolish it if given the power to do so."

Yes, and this current occupation is doing nothing but tearing our military to pieces.

Idiots ^ 1,000. When does a Con begin real discussion? When does a Con concede that many (most) of us have been right about this war from the beginning -- and by "us" I mean the entire population of the US? When does a Con understand that they cannot possibly understand racism because (taking a page from the Con handbook of hyperbole) THEY ARE ALL RACIST THEMSELVES.

Sorry, I have to prepare for a conference where the majority of the attendees are racist, sexist homophobes who think just like you. It's like going back to the South in the early 1900s.

Sowell, as usual, says it right
"It is painful to watch defenders of Obama tying themselves into knots trying to evade the obvious." The country is electing a president. Lots of people think Obama would be great. Lots of people think not. Voters will decide.

You Got It
Affirmative Action and Quotas are Racisim in themselves! Just think about it would you like to be accepted or recognized for your race,sex, or creed or for you accomplishments? As a mixed race woman I want to be known for my abilities, character, and my results! I am willing to go the extra mile to prove myself! To think someone would choose me because of my race or gender is the true racisim and this angers me greatly!

Majority to Minority
Pat has bought into the mixing of ethnicities with race. Most Hispanics are white or caucasian. The Liberals are trying desperately to convince everyone that Hispanics are a different race--the Liberals are creating a wedge issue. Pat has bought into it. South and Central America are all Hispanic except Brazil. Those countries are full of European immigrants. Italians, Germans, Spanish, Portuguese and others. As an example, Argentina is 80% Italian, German and Spanish. Walk the streets of Buenos Aires, Rosario, or Cordoba and you would believe you were in Missoula, Montana except for the size, language, and culture. The other countries are similarly populated. Mexico has far more Native Indians than most of the other countries but even Mexico has a large European population. Hispanic is not a race , it is an umbrella ethnicity. Each South American country has its own culture, eventhough, most share a language. The culture of Chile is vastly different from the culture of Venezuela and so on. Each of you need to go see for yourself.

inthemajority
This is why Cons dont get it.

Its like going back to the south in the 1900s.

What are you trying to say, that you are a RACIST or that you are just an OLD BAT running your LIBERAL MOUTH again with BS


Im sure your confereence will go just fine since they are all RACIST and you will fit in PERFECTLY. Just remember to tell them that the LIBERALS will give then everything they want if they vote for the LIB Party.

Remember not to MIS REMEMBER

Have a great day

PAT
Are you and Mr.Obama cousins, too?I hate,when old people,fail to take credit, for opportunities MISSED.A man your age,saw the movement to racket phenomenon,and did nothing.Why was the "Civil Rights Movement" even necessary?The "Context" of Ward Connerly is not well enough established, for me.Therefore,I will withhold judgment.I see his actions, in two ways,that parallel,they will narrow.

Of course the leftists
would dismantle the military if they could. Look at the dolts out in San Francisco who want to prevent the Blue Angels from even having an air show out there.

http://www.airliners.net/discussions/military/read.main/68 980/

inthemajority wrote:
"Now I understand the completely warped mind of the Con. "

Speaking of warped minds - only a leftist could believe that opposing a program that bases decisions upon race rather than merit is racist.

First hand observer;
In the majority writes:

"... the left opposes the military."

Idiots. Pure and simple. Idiots. Like Obama is a Muslim. Just amazing.

The hard left DOES oppose the U.S. having a military. Have you been following the Code Pink/Berkeley story? How about the Times Square bombing of the recruiting station? We have an all volunteer military, the draft went away in 1972/73. Hard Left Liberals want to abolish our military by any means, peaceful or violent. The "blame America First" group, in their own twisted minds, think that those that hate us will just go away if we get rid of all the resources we have to defend ourselves as a soverign country. As an aside, it must be nice to live in a Candy-Land world.... Neo Cons are just passionate, not idiots.

"Yes, and this current occupation is doing nothing but tearing our military to pieces."

Really? This is not meant sarcastically, but how many military people have you spoken to? And how very telling you see the police action in Iraq as an occupation. How can we be occupiers, when the definition of an occupying force is one who does not allow those occupied to have their own government? It seems to me the Iraqis had an election 5 years ago, and have their own governing body and president.

Trust me... if the "occupation" was tearing our military apart, I think my 24 year old son who spent 6 months over there would have at least mentioned this in passing to his mom and dad.

WHY ALL THE DISCUSSION?
Affirmative Action is one of the race based hocus-pocus bs programs that have been struck down by the Supreme Court and still practiced in the full light of day and even more so in Municipalities where a per centage of for bid contracts have to go to 'minority' contractors.
Strange how all of these lawsuits like the one filed by Jennifer Gratz are allowed to linger in legal limbo for years.
Oh, and anyone who says Affirmative Action has not been struck down by the Supreme Court?
Does Bakke V. Davis ring a bell?
Patrick Chavis was a liberal poster child for affirmative action who replaced Alan Bakke on the list of appointments to the University of CA at Davis. This was the subject of Bakkes landmark lawsuit against affirmative action.
It turns out that Chavis was nothing more than a liposuction hack who had his license revoked by the California Medical Board after he killed two patients with hack liposuction jobs.
Oh, yeah, after he was barred from practicing medicine he was murdered in an apparent drug deal gone bad.
So much for the benefits of Affirmative Action.
You can bet if Alan Bakkes life ended in the gutter like this Affirmative Action appointee, the liberals would never let us forget it.
Affirmative Action is a sham and the only sham practiced with impunity by the goverment.
It's reverse discrimination no matter how much lipstick you put on it.

Pat is a liar and distorter to the tenth
Pat is the type of person that is destroying this country and creating racial divisions and tensions. Pat says the following:

“What Barack is saying here is that the resentment of black America is justified, but the resentment of white America is a myth manufactured and manipulated by the conservative commentariat. Barack is attempting to de-legitimize the other side of the argument. “

Obama does no such thing in his speech. Obama stated that BOTH black AND white resentments could be exploited. He also offered advice to blacks that could be taken straight from a TH column. Pat left the following Obama statements out of his smear piece.

“For the men and women of Reverend Wright’s generation, the memories of humiliation and doubt and fear have not gone away; nor has the anger and the bitterness of those years. That anger may not get expressed in public, in front of white co-workers or white friends. But it does find voice in the barbershop or around the kitchen table. At times, that anger is exploited by politicians, to gin up votes along racial lines, or to make up for a politician’s own failings.”

So according to Pat’s logic, Obama would be “de-legitimizing” black grievances with the above excerpt from his speech.

Obama continues:

“Just as black anger often proved counterproductive, so have these white resentments distracted attention from the real culprits of the middle class squeeze”

“Counterproductive”??? Wow, that does not seem like Obama is trying to justifying all black resentment, it appears he thinks some of it is destructive. I guess Pat missed that part of Obama’s speech. He must have missed the following as well:

“For the African-American community, that path means embracing the burdens of our past without becoming victims of our past”

Hmmm….. Almost sounds like an excerpt from an L Elder or S Parker column.

STANDTALL wrote:
"Affirmative Action is a sham and the only sham practiced with impunity by the goverment."

Let's not forget the federally-mandated Ponzi scheme that is Social (in)Security -- 15% of one's income skimmed off the top, and the SCOTUS has ruled that the average citizen has no right to ever get that money back.

Pat is a liar ....p2
Obama continues:

“And it means taking full responsibility for own lives – by demanding more from our fathers, and spending more time with our children, and reading to them, and teaching them that while they may face challenges and discrimination in their own lives, they must never succumb to despair or cynicism; they must always believe that they can write their own destiny.”

Yea I’m soooo convinced that Obama is trying to justify all black resentment. It is quite clear that Pat is only concerned about Obama’s identification of the exploitation of “white resentment”, primarily because conservative demagogue columnist like him, are those that engage in that exploitation. Pat’s distortion of Obama’s speech and positions on racial matters presents no better example of the conservative manipulation of “white resentment”

Hyperbole again
"Really? This is not meant sarcastically, but how many military people have you spoken to?"

About 100, but maybe closer to 80. But that's just me personally, so do I get to count the 1,000s (or was that 10,000s?) when I watched the Winter Soldiers pieces?

The Cons view of the military is so warped that it has evolved into its own monster.

Another page from the Con handbook of hyperbole: "The hard left DOES oppose the U.S. having a military." OK, and the hard right want to cut ALL spending from every program except the military, which it want to quadruple over the next decade.

Weird, huh? Your extremists want to build a 1-mile high wall between the US and Mexico at a cost of trillions, wants to send 300,000 to Iraq AND Iran, wants to send another 100,000 to N. Korea...

OK, just hyperbole. You can find your three guys who want to abolish the military and call them the representative Left, and I'll ask my paranoid neighbor who wants the US to rule the world with force no matter how much it costs. Sounds like a quorum to me.

BTW, the graphs of military budgets are fun to look at through the presidencies. Con hyperbole strikes again.

Media Bias

Perhaps they should report the big whopper Obama just told.
Obama stated if his pastor had not apologized for his outlandish statements he would have to quit the church. Say what ? When did this guy apologize ? Not a peep from the press.


Anthony Thomas
calling Pat a liar is the pot calling the kettle black.

The other evening AT said that RRRacist Wright never said anything about whites.

When I pointed out that I heard him blame Jesus' death on the Romans, who where Italian, who were therefore WHITE (in other words, RRRacist Wright reached back 2000 YEARS to bash whites), AT tucked his lying tail between his legs and disappeared.

With any luck, he'll do the same again.

inthemajority
here are some stats from:
http://www.gpoaccess.gov/usbudget/fy01/pdf/hist.pdf

all in billions
year....budget.......defense budget and international
1992 ...2,000.6 .....314.5
1993 ...2,063.0 .....308.3
1994 ...2,143.6 .....298.7
1995 ...2,225.3 .....288.5
1996 ...2,301.1 .....279.2
1997 ...2,378.3 .....285.7
1998 ...2,463.7 .....281.6
1999 ...2,554.6 .....290.1

Carter actually did a better job than clinton....makes you think eh?

I think those stats prove my point enough

Back in the dim-and-distant
debts were passed on from generation to generation, effectively enslaving the entire familly until fortune smiled upon them. This was finally ended but, according Rev Wright, I should be still enraged at those who my indentured ancestors were held by.
I'm sorry, but I don't have the energy to waste on such negativity.
Hate is the only thing worthy of itself.

inthemajority wrote:
BTW, the graphs of military budgets are fun to look at through the presidencies."

And yet you don't post a link so the rest of us can verify your point.

btw
for all those libs who think Clinton balanced the budget...take a look at what the dotcom explosion did for our gov budget...2.5tril in 1999...as of 2005 it was like 2.2trillion due to 9/11 basically

Not only is Rev. Wright's
new house expensive it's in a predominantly White suburb south of Chicago. He hates Whites so much he wants to live among them. Let's face it he moved among the Whites for safety and quiet in his old age. Just like the life he had as a child, in a quiet, clean neighborhood.

Anthony Thomas
Pat is creating Racial division, but J Wright and Obama are not? This is exactly what is wrong with entitlement thinking from so many Minorities in America! Before you start calling me a Racist Im one of those Minorities X2. So Pat cannot defend Whites and point out Problems in the Black Community without causing Racial division, but Wright and Obama can actually attack White America and they are justified?? Enough of the Double Standard! What the problem with so many Black Americans is they just want to continue being the Victims! Victims never move ahead because they are stuck in their self pity!!!

Anthony Thomas check out
Rev. Wright's bio and see all the "humiliation and fear" he suffered in his upper middle class neighborhood. He went to a school that was 90% White and lived in a two parent home. When will blacks finally admit that most of them have it pretty good, as good as most White folks and better than some.

As far as your take on Pat, it's men like Pat who will save this culture not destroy it. He appears to be one of very, very few with the guts to tell it like it is. That's probably why Mr. Anthony Thomas has his undies all in a twist.

christheprofessor
“When I pointed out that I heard him blame Jesus' death on the Romans, who where Italian, who were therefore WHITE (in other words, RRRacist Wright reached back 2000 YEARS to bash whites), AT tucked his lying tail between his legs and disappeared.”

What????? Well the Romans did crucify Jesus. But more importantly, how does Wright’s identification of the Roman’s crucifixion of Jesus, reveal his racism towards whites. Did Wright state that all whites were as bloodthirsty as the Romans of biblical times? I don’t get your angle.

To one & all here...
...the race issue is important to many,BUT,it masks a far more important topic that voters should focus on.Instead of arguing over the Black/White issue,accept the fact he bridges two worlds by being a mulatto.

More important to the country is what is in his heart (his association w/ Rev. "Racist" Wright) & what is in his head (his crafty voting record of "present") to give the impression he's a blank slate so voters will easily "project" their views & he confirms his acceptance in empty rhetoric ("we are the ones we've been waiting for...") than sends the lemmings swooning & fainting.

Puh-leeze!

My due-diligence revealed the answer on B.Hussein O.,his 2004 U.S. Senate opponent Republican Alan Keyes was ABSOLUTELY CORRECT when he labeled the mulatto as a "hard-core academic Marxist".

Now that's something we should be talking about !

Viruddh missing the point again
Why did your white leftist buddies in Chicago specifically place an ad for someone who appears black to spread Marxism amongst Chicago's poor? Why not proseletyze themselves? And why was Obama willing to be used as a racial pawn? Admirable?

Why was Obama so willing to support and cater to racists when he thought it would advance his career? Admirable?

As for joining the racist Trinity church to advance his political career, we can rely on Obama's own writing as to why a non-religious, paid political mole decided to join the church to build his street cred. Admirable?

Sorry to hear your mother is one of those scheming white racist leftists that preys on the gullible. The nut doesn't fall far from the tree.

As for millionaire Michelle Obama, the opposite of your "brilliant insights" is true. Now that Obama is amassing power she says she's proud of America for the first time in her life.

As for the graft, the Rezko connection has been admitted to by Obama - if it never happened, why did Obama return $85,000 of the graft? Try reading the actual news instead of relying on leftist internet fantasies.

My mixed-race kids are doing great thanks. Sounds like you've got some work to do in your own family, though.

Anthony T
Do you even look at the things you quote Mr. Obama as saying? When he says that blacks act one way in front of whites then speak what is really on their minds at the barber shop or kitchen table, that is just a little disheartening coming from a self proclaimed "uniter" wouldn't you think. Telling people that "this is just the way those folks talk when you people aren't around" isn't very reassuring.

Obama in affect trys to defend a style of racism so long as it occurs in private. I would not expect you, or anyone else, to defend the Ku Klux Knuts preaching their brand of racism around children whether it was done in private or not, how then to you attempt to justify this?

uneasyrider
“As far as your take on Pat, it's men like Pat who will save this culture not destroy it. He appears to be one of very, very few with the guts to tell it like it is.”

So I guess your ok with Pat’s distortion of Obama’s speech and positions on race?

Defense Budgets
Its a distraction in this thread, I know, but we shoudl all be aware that the Merican defense budget is greater than all the defense budgets of every other nation combined.

If we are spending more on defense than the rest of the world combined, and we still don't feel safe, then we are doing something very wrong.

CKHustler
Thank you for that link. As a percentage of outlays, the national defense budget has been:

’70 41.8
’71 37.5
’72 34.3
’73 31.2
’74 29.5
‘75 26.0
’76 24.1
’77 23.2
’78 23.8
’79 22.8
’80 22.7
’81 23.2
’82 24.8
’83 26.0
’84 26.7
’85 26.7
’86 27.6
’87 28.1
’88 27.3
’89 26.5
’90 23.9
’91 20.6
’92 21.6
’93 20.7
’94 19.3
’95 17.9
’96 17.0
’97 16.9
’98 16.2
’99 16.1

Clearly, the percentages dropped during Carter and Clinton and were higher during Reagan and Bush 1. In fairness, Carter came in when Viet Nam had just ended, and Clinton shortly after the collapse of the Soviet Union.

Probably a moot point, as it is the Congress, not the Executive, that spends the money, after all.


lesson of affirmative action policies
The only outcome of America's affirmative action policies has been to put up a wall in front of any true brotherhood between American's descended from Europe and those descended from Africa.

It's a stark billboard showing the limits of governments ability to effect positive change.

As we go into the future it'll become crystal clear that the endemic problems in the black community will NOT be solved by any outside force, especially government. The only way forward is to exorcise the demons living in their midst that preach that all their problems are caused by outside forces. True growth comes only when a person, community, or business identifies areas that need improvement and then puts in the effort needed eliminate poor habits & replace them with habits that benefit them (translation from bizspeak)

Jack
Do you not understand we protect most of the western world for one. For another we have to account for every type of threat because of these terrorists. We must keep inventing new technologies, cover every aspect they could possibly think of in ways of attacking us. The defense budget is not just for military in iraq. It is for defense of the civilians over here. It is border patrols. It is cyber defense from hackers. And many many more things

leroy
“Do you even look at the things you quote Mr. Obama as saying? When he says that blacks act one way in front of whites then speak what is really on their minds at the barber shop or kitchen table, that is just a little disheartening”

Yes I did read the quotes. But your post is strange, because you obviously think whites are somehow exempt from this behavior?

Obama Doubletalk
Obama was at Howard University in 2007encouraging students to think differently about socialism in America he asked, "Are we willing to make the investments in genuine, equal opportunity in this country?" He says, "People aren't looking for charity. We talk about welfare and we talk about poverty, but what people really want is fairness. They want people paying their fair share of taxes. They want that money allocated fairly."

Obama wants to tax corporate America into bankruptcy and tax every human being in our country who is gainfully employed from the wealthiest to the poorest in order to finance his socialist ideas. Raising taxes and blatant socialism is Obama’s “change”. Obama wants to tip a glass of rum and smoke a good Cuban cigar with Raul, Fidel, Hugo and the other Latin American despots to discuss the merits of socialism and commerce.

Obama wants to destroy our military and surrender to al Qaeda in Iraq and round the world. He wants to have tea with Ahmadinejad and Assad and socialize with Osama, Hamas, Hezbollah, Fatah and all the Jihadists and swap some ideas on religions. As Commander-in-Chief he will surrender to al Qaeda and destroy our military.

Obama’s mentor, Frank Marshall Davis (deceased), member of the Communist Party USA taught Obama the merits of socialism. Obama refers to him as Frank in his book "Dreams From My Father." Frank had an affect on the type of governance Obama has planned for us is Obamonomics. Obama knows socialism has been a miserable failure everywhere in the world yet he wants America to share the wealth ‘fairly’.
http://www.gopusa.com/commentary/ckincaid/2008/ck_02191.sht ml

Bottomless Pit
Blacks have an insatiable desire for freebies and "a leg up". We need to stop feeding this. For their own good.

Yes, Obama had a privileged upbringing. Punahou School is an ultra elite school as is Columbia and Harvard Law.

Will they every be satisfied? No, because they are like hungry infants with their mouths open, demanding to be fed.

AT
You just called Robertson a liar.

I was just pointing out that the other day, you said that Wright never said anything about whites, as if he wasn't a racist himself.

When I indicated that he had (even going back 2000 years to bash us, as if that was necessary), you disappeared rather than admit you were wrong about it. (Note that it is clear to me that the only reason Wright did this was to stoke more hatred of whites in his flock -- I can see no other purpose.)

So you were either lying about it, or were mistaken, not having heard it yourself.

But rather than concede the point, you just disappeared from the thread.

So it seems a bit disingenuous of you to call Pat a liar.

Its Funny Stuff

The entire Obama/Wright/Racism discussion would be funny, it it weren't so pathetic.

First off, Obama is NOT the Reverened Wright, and he never has been. As has been quoted here, what Obama has said gets far, far less scrutiny that what Wright said. People make some sort of feeble attempt to claim that Obama must necessarily agree with Wright because he recognizes the degree to which Wrights rhetoric is valid and distinguishes what is valid from what is invalid.

It's a pathetic smear job by a cohort of American politics that thrives on smear jobs. For example, Leroy writes as if its a shock that black people talk about racism when they are together. As if White people don't do that?

Folks are far too caught up in the symbolism and the rhetoric, when what we need is a discussion of reality! That, ultimately is what Obama is saying about race: it's time to talk about the realities of the situation.

Affirmative Action
“ The only outcome of America's affirmative action policies has been to put up a wall in front of any true brotherhood between American's descended from Europe and those descended from Africa.”

It’s amazing how some individuals forget that WHITE WOMEN also benefit from Affirmative Action, but there doesn’t seem to be a big uproar about that amongst whites. I wonder why?


Anthony T
I made no attemp at claiming anyone was exempt from this behaviour. What I did was point out that Mr. Obama tends to exclude certain people from being held to criticism for this behaviour.

But somehow I think you understood that, you simply chose to deflect the issue rather than confront it.

AT wrote:
"It’s amazing how some individuals forget that WHITE WOMEN also benefit from Affirmative Action, but there doesn’t seem to be a big uproar about that amongst whites. I wonder why?"

The reason, I think, is that the context of this discussion is Obama's comments about it as well as Wright's racist comments.

If you look closely, though, you will see that what conservatives want is for categorizations like race and gender to be removed from the equation entirely and for decisions to be based upon merit alone.

America functions best as a meritocracy.

ANTHONY THOMAS

.....Connerly is gathering signatures to place on the ballots in Nebraska, Arizona, Oklahoma, Colorado and Missouri -- the latter two crucial swing states -- propositions to outlaw all racial, gender and ethnic preferences ...

.....Obama favors Affirmative Action while admitting that whites resent it ...

.....Two men of mixed heritage with opposing views on race ...which do you side with? ...

.....Judging from past posts where you called Thomas Sowell and Clarence Thomas "Uncle Toms" I think the answer is obvious ...face it Tony ...if O.J was running as VP with Obama you would still support him ...

.....You have a sickness Tony ...it is a deep seated resentment and hatred for whites and you are in denial about it ...I think you would feel right at home in Jeremiah Wrights Trinity Church .....COLOSSUS

baseballdoc :
“Connerly is gathering signatures to place on the ballots in Nebraska, Arizona, Oklahoma, Colorado and Missouri”

I don’t care what that fool is doing.

Racist Drivel


Now I am going to say this straight out. The discussion of race always brings out bottom-feeders. I suggest that Kapahulu has simply plopped some racist excrement here on townhall, and I will be interested to see if those who expect Obama to denouce Wright are as active in denoucning such racist cant.

One of Many Disconnects
One of the common rants on TH involves pointing out that thing shave changed. There is a growing black middle class and overt racism has all but disappeared.

At the same time Jeffrey writes that the only outcome of Affirmative Action has been division.

Both are not likely to be true. Affirmative action had a great many positive effects on the groups it was intended to aid. The greatest beneficiary was white women. African Americans also benefitted: the growth of that black middle class has to be seen in the context of AA.

SO which is it?


BOTTOM LINE

.....The doctrine of the Trinity Church is based on Black Theology which among it's tenets are that all Blacks are victims of White Racism and that the redistribution of wealth as defined by Marxism is the desired end ...

.....Obama brought his family to this church for twenty years to be indoctrinated into this ideology ...I don't want this man in any position of authority within our Government .....COLOSSUS

Your Answer, Cyclist
Look no farther than Zimbabwe. A prosperous, self sufficient country will crumble into ruin. Of course, if the welfare mentality spreads further as it seems to be, this will happen before Whites become a minority.


The Cyclist writes: Friday, March, 28, 2008 12:50 AM
Interesting Article
What will America look like in 25, 50 and 100 years? What will happen if Whites do become a minority?

CKHooter
you write:

"Do you not understand we protect most of the western world for one"

Uh, is that in the Constitution? Did I miss something? I know somethign somewhere talks about "providing for the common defense", but I don't think that referred to teh common defense of the western world.

AT CALLS WARD CONNERLY A FOOL

.....Thank you Tony for making my point ...get help man ...you are slipping into a dark place .....COLOSSUS

My views on race,

what more is needed than freedom. Blacks have freedom now it is up to them to use it.

No one is owed anything beyond freedom.

FINALLY someone gets it !!!
@FromTheTop1:

You've discovered & revealed what I also found.In the mulatto's book "Dreams From my Father" he coyly hints at "a poet named Frank" but never names him.

WHY IS THAT ???????????????????????????????????????

He also slyly states he had "some modest notoriety once" and was "a contemporary of Richard Wright & Langston Hughes during his years in Chicago." All this "education" (indoctrination?) took place while he was in Hawaii.

It's because it's a deliberate attempt to NOT SAY that "Frank" is really a communist and is actually well know Marxist Frank Marshall Davis.

Wake the eff-ing up voters!

BEWARE of Obamanomics,it will be devastating to this country!!!

U of Michigan Case
Why is affirmative action required at a school that has never discriminated against racial minorities? The fact is, blacks, as a group, can’t compete or don’t want to, even when admission requirements for them are lowered to the absurd. This why the race “problem” has no solution.

Contrast the U of M admission graphs at the end of this article http://www.uiowa.edu/~030116/116/articles/bronner2.htm . For non-minorities, there are only three categories of applicants: “Admit”, “postpone decision”, and “reject”. Minorities have a fourth category: “Admit to remedial program”. Not only does the U of M have a remedial program (something no top university has any business doing), but the grades and test scores have been grossly lowered for minorities. And still there is a “shortage” of black faces on campus? Why? Can’t blame a racist university administration.

my 2 cents
us white folks lost the monopoly on racism long ago. I would argue that rev. wright is a racist and if Barack Obama sat and listened to him for 20+ years without getting up and walking out .....

I think it will take at least a few more generations until racism and sexism are consigned to the dustbins as they should be now.

Neither one of them unfortunately will ever go away completely.


It is tiresome hearing the

plaintive calls of, "freedom is not enough" and "you owe us more".

If being a free human being is not enough for you, I suggest going elsewhere because freedom is all America has to offer. You might be able to use the courts and government to take more, but just because they take it from someone else and give it to you does not make it right or American.

HOW PATRONIZING
So the growth of the black middle class has to be seen in the context of Affirmative Action?
Patronizing to the point of insulting.
No. It has nothing to do with people putting their heads down and working hard.
Using their talents and not whining and complaining.
Typical liberal lip service.
That's right. Blacks can't accomplish anything without the white man.
And white women?
How about Jennifer Gratz (white woman) and her lawsuit against University of Michigan Law School?
The same thing: Women working hard and proving themselves.
The same thing: Wacky, looney liberal lip service.
The 'American dream' and the 'good life' is something that is a gift from white liberals.

chritheprofessor
Most Historians will tell you, that "Italians" came about after the "Romans".Some say about 500 years after. Standtall One case,of a misguided soul, does not a case make, against Affirmative Action.I have never seen "AA" as an affective way to help "Blacks".When you make a case, use your "Intellect and the "Facts",not your hatred.THANKS...

If the general election is between

McCain and BHO, and it becomes about race, BHO loses. It would be in BHO's best interest to keep his campaign free of race beyond thanking America for giving blacks freedom.

If he thinks a person needs more than freedom to succeed, he wants to make America less free.

Jack
Division is not the only out come of Affirmative Action, but you must admit it has become one of the out comes.

As to whether white women have benifited more than blacks, or blacks more than hispanics, or hispanics more than asians.... I am really not sure, but there is a q

Florida
Appreciate your posts about self-reliance and individuality. I'm sick of race being an issue in everything. So much of success in this country is dependent upon hard work, perseverence, confidence and determination. And in today's economy, NO ONE has it easy -- not blacks, not whites, not Asians. Well, maybe illegal immigrants in certain parts of the country, but not for long. EVERYONE has to work doubly hard to GET a job and KEEP a job, to say nothing of getting ahead in that job.

Affirmative action has negatively affected many of us whites for years on end as we lost jobs to minorities who weren't as qualified. Yes, it was painful but so what? The way around that was simply to continue working hard and PROVING our worth to one employer after another.

I am white and I don't feel I owe anything to anyone for the sins of our ancestors. Of course slavery was wrong -- there is no doubt. But it was also more than 100 years ago. The time has come for "black rage" and "white resentment" and any other tag line that justifies laziness, a "gimme" attitude or a refusal to work hard and rely on oneself to simply be left behind in the political argument.

Obviously, Barack Obama doesn't want to leave the race issue behind.

The black racist cries,

"Freedom is not enough", his mate responds, "we want more".

The flocks leader begins the chant, "Yes we can".

The listeners know the "yes we can" translates to "what is yours is ours".

eddie too
“ If being a free human being is not enough for you, I suggest going elsewhere because freedom is all America has to offer”

So I guess by your logic, blacks are no longer experience racism in America. I would like to see you offer your “freedom” rant to the family of James Byrd Jr., or to Gernalow Wilson, or to the thousands of African Americans who were disenfranchised during the 2000 election.

Jack
Is this your point? Give someone a good high paying job and they will benefit. Take that job away from a better qualified individual and they will complain. But both cannot happen.
The culprit here is systemic, not individuals. Usually the individuals don't know each other, it is the system that the animosity is aimed at. Change the system, solve the problem. Just quit "poking the bear".

viruddh: Really?
“What a curious set of questions, especially in
regard to the possible diminishing of the superior white race.”

Really? Apparently you subscribe to the post-modern philosophy of "White-ism" which calls for a collective attack on the so-called power of western or "white civilization" IOT decrease its ongoing predations on an otherwise “noble” world. Please read David Horowitz's "Hating Whitey" sometime IOT get a full understanding of the pervasive, institutionalized anti-white ideology currently viewed as a valid facet of most so-called "legitimate" minority studies programs on prominent university campuses, e.g. Princeton.

I’m curious, do have the same intestinal fortitude to show the same contempt for white males who disagree w/ your rather myopic, pedantic views in your daily affairs as you do in a private forum like TH?

The Irony is Too Funny
So on one hand we have people claiming that racism simply doesn't exist in America anymore and on the other hand we have this from sedonamook.

"The fact is, blacks, as a group, can’t compete or don’t want to, even when admission requirements for them are lowered to the absurd."


KILLER
If my politically incorrect language does not rub you the correct way tough s@#t.
Cherry pick all you want.
Also, take your own advice and use your 'intellect' and review the 'facts.'
The Bakke Decision of 1978 declared Affirmative Action illegal. Never been upheld, though.
Our government has been practicing reverse discrimination for 30 years. Which is why Jenniger Gratz is in court now and has been for the last 12 years.
But in typical liberal fashion, you'll just cherry pick and use your hate.
THANKS, MOONBAT

Leroy
Leroy, you are exemplifying one of the more distressing aspects of Townhall.

You wrote: "Division is not the only out come of Affirmative Action, but you must admit it has become one of the out comes"

Why would you address that to me instead of the person who said it. WHy is it that those who expect Obama to challege or disown Wright seem so reluctant to challenge the racists in their own midst.

I have read no conservative here address the blatant racism of sedonaman or other like him. Why?


Killer
I didn't say that, Wright did.

The New Racism
I continue to be appalled by "Racism," especially in the context of America. Yes, Thomas jefferson did most likely have a long term intimate relationship with Ms. Hemmings, very likely fathering at least one child. However, is the infidelity or the melanin more relevant?

"Race," in the civilized world, is a corrupt concept. Corrupt with repect to fact and corrupt with respect to the Western values which have been refined at least since the time of Thales. It is not redundant or self-referential to see that corruption corrupts. Every paragraph I have ever read would become more honest and provocative, were "race" removed and "tribe" substituted.

StandTall
you Write:"So the growth of the black middle class has to be seen in the context of Affirmative Action?
Patronizing to the point of insulting."

Reality is never insulting and never patronizing. Reality is reality. Apparently the concept eludes you.

Standtall takes a fall on knowledge
“So the growth of the black middle class has to be seen in the context of Affirmative Action?
Patronizing to the point of insulting.No. It has nothing to do with people putting their heads down and working hard. “

Your post is insulting. African Americans work just as hard as any other ethnic group in this country; this includes the WHITE WOMEN who primarily benefit from Affirmative Action. African Americans would not have been able to survive in this country if not for our work ethic and perseverance. I mean, what do you think the government just goes into black communities and offers jobs to people standing on the corner drinking beer and smoking marijuana??? LOl. Affirmative action just monitors racism statistically, it doesn’t grant unqualified people jobs and admissions to college. For example, if a company has 98 percent of white men working for it, that may not statistically coincide with the available and qualified blacks, and yes WHITE WOMEN, who may be able to work for that particular company. It would raise suspicion of possible racism and sexism.

Jack
My apologies, seems I posted the thing without finishing.

As I was trying to say, there is a question on when such programs end. To say we must leave them in place indefinately is rather insulting to the very people they intend to benifit, the assumption being that they some how can never be expected to really equal.

Your question of which is it, divisive or helpful can be answered by saying it has been both, and while the helpfulness outweighed the divisiveness at one point, my question still stands, when is it finished?

On kalahubululu, or whoever, he read to me to be someone wanting to get a reaction from people, you addressed the situation well. To give him further attention will only encourage his behaviour.

Mr. Thomas: YES!!!
“It’s amazing how some individuals forget that WHITE WOMEN also benefit from Affirmative Action, but there doesn’t seem to be a big uproar about that amongst whites. I wonder why?”

Yes, it is amazing because it demonstrates current US society’s pathological aversion towards holding women accountable for their actions. In the book “Death of Right & Wrong”, author Tammy Bruce exposes a pro-feminist paternal society in general & a legal system, e.g., it coddles dysfunctional women by rationalizing & enabling their misbehavior. In this current state on institutionalized Misandry (Men=bad & Women=good), irresponsible men are accorded financial penalties at best and prison at worst, whereas irresponsible women are coddled by American Society. Men do bad things because they are inherently evil whereas women do bad things because of exterior/interior “forces beyond their control”, e.g., CAPT Lisa Nowak, Mary Winkler, Andrea Yates, Debra LaFave, etc.

Yes, Women in general & white women in particular are the greatest beneficiaries of affirmative action/quotas. I am probably the only TH poster that has actively documented the relatively privileged, consequence-free, responsibility-optional lives enjoyed by American women in general. However, that’s a separate argument.

Obama Votes
Just some incidental votes by Obama.

"Some of the other votes the National Journal ranked Obama on that he did not mention included his votes: to support tax hikes, to require a study of global warming effects for federal water projects, to allow union organizers to bypass secret balloting processes to organize workplaces, to mandate increased vehicle fuel efficiency standards, permit "sanctuary city" policies, against making English the official language of the United States, against defining a fetus as an "unborn child," against renewing President Bush's terrorist monitoring program, to support voting rights for the District of Columbia and to cut funding and withdraw troops from Iraq according to a set date". Amanda Carpenter, TH

--
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQhjaCgAS80

AT wrote:
"So I guess by your logic, blacks are no longer experience racism in America. I would like to see you offer your “freedom” rant to the family of James Byrd Jr., or to Gernalow Wilson, or to the thousands of African Americans who were disenfranchised during the 2000 election."

Not that old canard again...

How about the millions of Americans (black, white, male, female) being disenfranchised by the DNC as we speak?

As for Byrd and Wilson, those are definitely tragedies.

The other day somebody posted a link from the Department of Justice with a breakdown of people committing homicides by race for the 25 years ending in 2005 (as I recall). I did the math -- blacks, who make up about 12% or 13% of the population, committed over 50% of the murders (with a huge proportion of the victims being black as well).

Why don't I hear you complaining about that, either?

Liberal Logic
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

Liberals are handicapped by "logic dsylexia" which results in conclusions that become unshakable beliefs in something untrue.

Liberal logic finds that the Creator should be removed and unalienable rights should be transferred to liberal alienable rights.

Liberal logic finds that blacks cannot "achieve" unless preferences, quotas and affirmative action are instituted.

Liberal logic finds that races are fundamentally unequal.

Liberal logic finds that the pursuit of life should be aborted.

Liberal logic finds that liberty is increasing proportionately with the size of government.

Liberal logic finds that happiness will be increased by taking the fruit of an individuals labor away and transferring it to others.




Jack answered
If you don't like "smear jobs" then don't support Obama. Obama has opposed judicial appointments because of things like membership in a country club 30 years ago that didn't allow women members. In other words, associations far more tenuous than his association to the virulently racist Wright.

Obama opposed the nomination of African-American Janice Rogers Brown because she once ruled that under certain circumstances a racial slur could be protected speech under the First Amendment. Wait, isn't that what Obama wants for Wright?

Obama opposed the nomination of judge Leslie Southwick for joining 2 decisions (out of more than 7,000) that (1) a social worker should not have been fired from her job of 20 years for using a single racial slur not motivated out of racial hatred or racial animosity; and (2) joining a majority opinion affirming sole custody to a father when the lesbian mother had a history of bringing various sex partners in the house. What about the context of the other 7,000 cases? Obama didn't care.

Obama demanded Imus be firing for using a racial slur. Obama didn't demand we take a "nuanced" look at the "context" in which Imus made the remark, or Imus's history of good works. Fire him, he's a racist! Obama said at the time he was fearful his daughters might hear such racist remarks (ouch!)

Obama should not be heard to plead for a softer double-standard for himself and Wright. He deserves the same standard he has meted out to anyone not identified as hard-left.

Mr. T: I beg to differ
“Affirmative action just monitors racism statistically, it doesn’t grant unqualified people jobs and admissions to college.”

Having graduated fromm an elite university, i.e., a Service Academy, I beg to differ. While at the Academy, I was introduced to my second experience with institutional racism (my 1st is another story) while on “recruiting leave”: admission points given to “deserving” minority students which allowed said students to be admitted with average SATs 250-300 points lower than their white (this practice occurs at all elite schools) counterparts. Ironically, SATs are the greatest indicator WRT predicted how a student will perform their freshman year. Needless to say, 90% of the minority students in my class either flunked out, burned out or were allowed to remain a 5th year (unlike their white male counterparts) IOT graduate with a less academically rigorous degree, e.g., management, etc. In contrast, I graduated in the middle of my class with a BS in Electrical Engineering (BSEE). Over 80% of BSEE graduates in my class were white males. Ironically, in graduate school the majority where of course Asian students.

Spell-checker
The spell-checker can’t keep up w/ my typing:

“Affirmative action just monitors racism statistically, it doesn’t grant unqualified people jobs and admissions to college.”

Having graduated from an elite university, i.e., a Service Academy, I beg to differ. While at the Academy, I was introduced to my second experience with institutional racism (my 1st is another story) while on “recruiting leave”: admission points given to “deserving” minority students which allowed said students to be admitted with average SATs 250-300 points lower than their white (this practice occurs at all elite schools) counterparts. Ironically, SATs are the greatest indicator WRT predicted how a student will perform their freshman year. Needless to say, 90% of the minority students in my class either flunked out, burned out or were allowed to remain a 5th year (unlike their white male counterparts) IOT graduate with a less academically rigorous degree, e.g., management, etc. In contrast, I graduated in the middle of my class with a BS in Electrical Engineering (BSEE). Over 80% of BSEE graduates in my class were white males. Ironically, in graduate school the majority where of course Asian.


It takes a village
Well, there will always be black rage over the indignities suffered at the had of the 'terrible uncle Sam'. We can rightly say that the vast majority of US citizens had nothing to do with all of that.
So, we have a 'village' where there are no fathers in the homes to teach their children moral values and in many (emphasis: not all) black churches the 'pastor' has replaced the father figure and his own rage comes across from his bully pulpit and infects/continues this line of dead-end tripe in yet another generation.
It only takes a village when the village consists of families with fathers and mothers who demand their children learn the general values of most Americans.
What we have now is a 'subsidized' village with 'substitute' parents teaching government mandated 'correctness' in a doomed effort that is likely to continue for years.
All in a decades long attempt to 'make things right'.
In reality all it ever took was a mom and dad.

Leroy
Two Things.

I agree with you on both of them. Yes, Affirmative Action has been both beneficial and divisive. The question of when it should end has two answers. First, despite the abject WHINING of many here, the nature and practice of AA has changed significantly over time, so what is it we are discussing? The other answer is that the question should really be a bit different. The question should be what conditions should obtain in society that will tell us AA should be compleye abandoned. How will we know when to stop, so to speak?

I do not know of ANYONE who says AA should be in place indefinitely. Do you? CAn you point someone out? What has Obama said about it?

Finally, the unwillignness to confront racism is kind of the issue for Obama, why not here?



Anthony Thomas,

I guess you think blacks need more than freedom to succeed.

I am sorry to disagree with you. The only alternative to freedom is dependency. Dependency is enslavement.

Those who advocate keeping anyone dependent are the modern slavers.


Sad but true
Sad but true. I wish we could emulate Dr. Martin Luther King's dream for a color blind society. Maybe Ward Connerly will get us started with his ever-expanding civil rights initiatives throughout the states, eh?

I wish BHO would just come out

and say what he means. Giving blacks freedom is not enough. Whites owe blacks more. At least then we would know what he believes in. Instead he uses his speaking abilities to confuse and deceive.

When will someone ask him whether whites owe blacks more?

It will have an impact if BHO says, freedom is not enough.

NO, GENTLEMEN
Since the end of the Second World War up until the Great Society Programs African Americans were one of the fastest rising demographics in this country.
With the passing of these programs came the new Democratic and liberal political animal who preached that African Americans were, are and will forever be 'victims' of this inherently racist country.
The Great Society programs have done more harm to African American families than slavery did 140 years ago.
And one of these programs is AFFIRMATIVE ACTION.
And to measure the growth of the black middle class to be seen from the context of Affirmative Action?
PATRONIZING TO THE POINT OF INSULTING.
If anything, the black middle class has grown DESPITE Affirmative Action.
If I am to understand this, the black middle class has grown directly as an offshoot or product of Affirmative Action?
How insulting!!! How f@#$ing insulting.
Gee Jack, if this doesn't show how condescending the liberal mind is, nothing will.
And If you go along with this line of thinking Anthony Thomas, you have a lot of growing to do as a person.
Affirmative Action just monitors racism statiscally and doesn't grant unqualified people jobs and admissions to college?
Oh, is that what it does?
Yeah, those 15% to 20% of bid contracts just for minorities are just for show are they?
Jennifer Gratz's (WHITE WOMAN) case has been in the courts now for 12 years just to monitor racism?
The Bakke decision was just a figment of everyones imagination?
Try as you might gentlemen, self sufficient people of all races see through these condesceding hoaxes.

Stupid Question
Some have asked why there has not been more anomosity shown to White women that profited under AA. How do you identify them? There are hundreds of white women in colleges all over America and some of them benefited from AA (most do not) but a White woman blends in with the rest and she is unidentifiable. A Black person does not blend in as well and there are fewer of them in the colleges and Universities so all are assumed (by some) to be AA recipients. Your disdain is unfair--be upset at the system--not the person that benefits from the system. Here is a current analogy--I make too much money to get the tax rebate but I paid taxes into the system. Others that paid nothing into the system are getting the rebate. My money! Should I hate the individual or the law that established the rules?

I suppose ultimately all Dems

believe freedom is not enough. That is why they support the "what's yours is mine" line.

Liberal Apologists
Liberal apologists defend black racism by arguing that black racism is simply a product of black culture and of black past sufferings.

Liberal logic concludes black racism is justified because blacks cannot rise above the past.

Liberals believe in "Justified Hate Speech and Racisim" but denounce unjustified hate speech and racism.

Liberals believe the notion that a "person should not be judged by the color of their skin" is outdated and flawed. Liberals believe that a person should be admitted and received by society based on the color of their skin.

More Racism
Warrior writes, quite honestly, that black folk are blamed for AA instead of white women because one can identify black folk so easily.

Is this not an admission that the discussion of AA is fraught with white racism?

EEOC--our tax dollars at work.
Or, who really benefits for AA?

"In 1987, EEOC's local field office wrote me a letter saying they had reason to believe I didn't have enough women 'food servers' and 'busers.' No woman had complained against me. So the EEOC advertised in the local paper to tell women whose job applications we had rejected—or even women who had just thought of applying—that they could be entitled to damages. Twenty-seven women became plaintiffs in a lawsuit against me. The EEOC interviewed me for hours to find out what kind of person I was. I told them in Sicily where I came from I learned to respect women. I supplied them with hundreds of pounds of paper. I had to hire someone full time for a year just to respond to EEOC demands. Six months ago I finally settled. I agreed to pay $150,000 damages, and as jobs open up, to hire the women on the EEOC's list. Even if they don't know what spaghetti looks like! I have to advertise twice a year even if I have no openings, just to add possible female employees to my files. I also had to hire an EEOC-approved person to teach my staff how not to discriminate. I employ 12 food servers in these two restaurants. Gross sales, around $2 million. How much did it all cost me? Cash outlay, about $400,000.

"What the government's done to me—devastating. I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy."—Thomas Maggiore, Owner of Tomaso's and Chianti restaurants, Phoenix, Ariz.

Does AA work?
In 1950 only 9% of black families were headed by a single parent; in 1965, 28%; now, fully half.

In 1959 only 15% of black births were illegitimate; in 1995, 66%.

One in four black men in their 20s is either in jail, on probation or on parole. Clearly, opportunities presented by affirmative action has done nothing to reverse these dismal trends.

Demosthenes
“Over 80% of BSEE graduates in my class were white males. Ironically, in graduate school the majority where of course Asian.”

What were the percentage of blacks in your school overall?

Liberals are Handicapped
Liberals are handicapped by a type of serious mental disorder called a "psychosis" in which a person cannot tell what is real from what is imagined. The main feature of this disorder is the presence of delusions, which are unshakable beliefs in something untrue.

Those who are afflicted with Liberalism have problems with recollections of their mis-deeds and total recall with mis-deeds of opposers.

Truth relativism increases proportionately when facts are not congruent with their statements.

Rationalizations increase dramatically when behaviour is spotlighted.

Ambguity becomes straightforward answers.

Opinons become knowledge and facts become appraisels formed in the mind.

Dysfunctional behaviour is normal and normal behaviour is dysfunctional.

Deviate behaviour is normal and normal behaviour is unenlightened.

Empathy for criminals proportionately increases while sympathy for the criminals victim decreases.

Sins of the guilty should be paid for by the innocent.

Responsiblity of ones actions and decisions are clearly the fault of others.

"Please relax," say Liberals, like a steward in an airliner with only one wing and two engines, one of which is on fire, "you are perfectly safe in my hands."

Stand Tall, You May not be a Racist...
But you are an idiot. For example

"The Great Society programs have done more harm to African American families than slavery did 140 years ago"

There's nothing really about that one.

Or "If I am to understand this, the black middle class has grown directly as an offshoot or product of Affirmative Action?
How insulting!!! How f@#$ing insulting."

If you bothered to pay attention to what I wrote, you wouldn't ask this question. The two phenomena occurred at the same time, and one of the phenomena was specifically intended to produce the second. Discussing the second without the context of teh first would be stupid.





Jack
To answer you in a somewhat reverse order. You basically asked why racism is being discussed as it relates to Mr. Obama and not other situations or people. Mr. Obama is actively pursuing the office for president of the United States, while this in no way excuses anyone elses behaviour, it should explain the extra scrutiny being given Mr. Obama.

I will not argue that Affirmitive Action has morphed from it's original intent, actually this has been one of the major criticisms of it over recent years. As such it makes defining any bench marks for it's demise harder to do.

If we are to base it on conditions, it would seem that there is enough precendence in established laws regarding discrimenation in the work place and educational facilities to warrent Affirmative Action programs be abolished now. I am sure there would be some arguements made against this, to which I can only ask then what should we use as a yard stick to measure this by if not existing laws?

Jack
Thank you for pointing out all the obvious racist post thatTH posters conveniently ignore.

Retired Geek
Conservatives understand that freedom requires personal responsibility. Liberals want freedom from personal responsibility.

NO JACK, YOU'RE THE IDIOT
The one 'phenomena' -- is that what it is?--
clearly produced the other?
Discussing the second without the context of the first would be stupid.
Of course it would be to a liberal who feels that black people can't make their own dreams come true without the help of the 'white man.'
Sure, Jack, of course I'm an idiot. Everyone's an idiot to a condescending liberal.
And all minorities can not make it without the gifts you want to give them.

Still CAn't Read?
I did not say that one produced the other. I said they have to be discussed together in order to make sense of the situation.

You did say something accurate though. You wrote " Sure, Jack, of course I'm an idiot."

Leroy
We probably agree, at least in one thing. We need very much to have that discussion and come to a conclusion. My guess is that Obama would be very willing to have that discussion, based on what he has said in the past.

In fact, without someone like Obama playing a lead role, the discussion will never happen. It will certainly not happen if it's driven by the racist attitudes of the posters on this site.

Racism
Theres a double standard when it comes to RACISM,
example

White entertainer calls basketball Team NAPPY HEADED HOS and Jessie and Al scream and the Man goes on world wide TV and apologies but that isnt good enough for the Black people. RACISM

A Black Preacher can call America GD America and Then call us USof KKK AMERICA and then spew AMERICA HATRED and the only thing that is said is THE CHICKENS HAVE COME HOME TO ROOST. NOT RACISM

Until both sides quit blaming the other with BS we will continue to have RACISM no matter who the President is. We all know that JJ and AL make money off of all this CRAP, now that is what I call RADICAL RACISM

christheprofessor correct
Clinton wants biggest boost in defense spending since Reagan
January 24, 2000?Web posted at: 10:18 p.m. EST (0318 GMT)
From Military Affairs Correspondent Jamie McIntyre
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- A proposed hike in defense spending by President Bill Clinton is not presidential politics but rather the first step in fulfilling last year's pledge to add $112 billion to the defense budget over six years, Pentagon officials tell CNN.
When Clinton unveils the federal budget next month, Pentagon sources tell CNN, he will propose spending $291 billion on defense, a hike of more than $18 billion and nearly double last year's increase.

Hustler: "Carter weakened our military so much Regean had to basically rebuild it."

Ahhh. Actual government numbers say otherwise.
Ford - down. What's with that?? Does he hate the military?
Carter - up. Interesting, eh?
Reagan - ** crazy up **.
Bush I - down and dropping rapidly because of post cold war.
Clinton - very slight down (slowed Bush I's requests), very slight up.
Bush II - crazy up.

Clinton actually pushed for more than congress was authorizing. christheprofessor is correct when it is the congress and not the Prez who does most of the extreme spending.

http://www.heartheissues.com/clinton-military.html

Three Words Sums This All Up:

"Typical White Person, " quote from Barak Hussein Obama, 2008.

That will go down in history.

christheprofessor
Well said and appreciated!

Jack: Perspective
“Kapahulu has simply plopped some racist excrement here on townhall, and I will be interested to see if those who expect Obama to denouce Wright are as active in denoucning such racist cant.”

Kapahulu made some detestable overgeneralizations, but unlike Rev. Wright he/she hasn’t
+Profited from said statement (Rev Wright’s tapes have been recorded & sold by his church for years);
+Isn’t the spiritual/moral/ethical shepherd of an impressionable flock numbering in the thousands; and
+Made said statements in a public forum for 20+ years

There’s this thing called “Perspective”...

Perspective Sounds Awfully Relative
Sounds to me like the admission of moral relativism to teh discussion. racists are racists. The absoute fact is that I have yet to see a townhall conservative all another townhall conservative on their racist comments. Even you describe the comments as "detestable overgeneralizations." Isn't that something Obama said?

christtheprofessor: Progressives
"Progressives" (i.e., Liberals) hold everyone responsible for nothing (w/ the exception of minimally-franchised white heterosexual males), but collectively responsible for everything- especially minimally-franchised white heterosexual males.

Shells
Shells writes: Friday, March, 28, 2008 12:41 PM
Three Words Sums This All Up:

"Typical White Person, " quote from Barak Hussein Obama, 2008.

That will go down in history.

-----------

It already HAS gone down in history. What's you point? His grandmother was a typical white person, and she was saying typical white-person things. I guess your point is you deny any of the past happened, or that that particular generation (as well as the preceding) did not think that way. Guess what? They did, and his grandmother was a typical white person.

Fortunately there have been some changed in attitude and society in general, but unfortunately we still have our Contacos's to deal with. Read the article and tell me that you understand that there are still people like him.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/20/us/politics/20penn.html

Retired Geek
Thank you and quite welcome!

Stand Tall
I just want to add an addemdum to your logical insight.

Great Society solutions has not just adversely affected blacks, it is a blight on ALL Americans.

Liberal solutions has cost more lives, hatred and money than anything in my lifetime.

Jack
I must disagree with you on the idea that Mr. Obama is somehow the best person to lead a "discussion" on this matter. From what I hear from his statements is that one side of the spectrum must be excused from their view points and if not so much forgiven at least be understood but no such concession is expected from the other extreme.

My view is that neither extreme should be tolerated and by excusing one it tends to fuel the other. In this regard I do not see Mr. Obama as a moderator for this debate.

I will grant that he is a very good orator, but speaking well with good intentions does not neccesarily mean I agree with his positions.

Do I believe him to be a bad man? Of course not, as I said he may have very good intentions, I simply do not agree with many of his positions, unfortunately this is enough for some people to call me racist or bigotted without ackowledging that I can have a difference of opinion regardless of skin color. I am grateful to you in that you have not done this and kept our conversation civil.

Jack: moral relativism?
Jack:
Sounds to me like the admission of moral relativism to teh discussion.

Ham-fisted attempt at invalidation. Reverend Wright’s “message” was distributed to more individuals over a greater period of time and are considered “mainstream” by quite a few hyphenated-Americans, in contrast Kapahulu’s statements that were made on a obscure, ostensibly Right-wing website. Hyphenated-Americans are responsible for 90% of inter-racial violence in most metropolitan areas. How many of these individuals were emboldened into said behavior by the sermons of bigots like Rev. Wright?

christheprofessor: Progressives
Progressives (i.e., Liberals) hold everyone responsible for nothing (w/ the exception of minimally franchised white heterosexual males), but collectively responsible for everything- especially minimally franchised white heterosexual males.

Progressives
Progressives (i.e., Liberals) hold everyone responsible for nothing (w/ the exception of minimally franchised white heterosexual males), but collectively responsible for everything- especially minimally franchised white heterosexual males.

Demosthenes
Agreed.

btw, it's Chris...

Progressives
Progressives (i.e., Liberals) hold everyone responsible for nothing (w/ the exception of minimally franchised white heterosexual males), but collectively responsible for everything- especially minimally franchised white heterosexual males.

Proving there is no healing
viruddh writes: 4:59 AM
Talent Scout

You seem to support and excuse the racism of both Obama and his preacher.
---------
viruddh writes: 4:59 AM

I don't support or
excuse the racism of the preacher. I don't think
Obama is a racist.

----
ts:
Then neither is anyone else, so lets move along and lay this tired argument aside.

If you think this man Obama is going to heal America in any way, let alone race relations by sitting under a God hating, American hating, a white skin hating bigot, fine.

And if you can sleep well with your own bigotry, fine with me.
Its obvious you are here sleep walking anyway.

All the Better for affirmative action.
Actually, of all conservatives, I like Pat Buchanan the best. I think that under all his bluster there really are good intentions and a good heart. But as a white woman I have to disagree with him about affirmative action. I've often heard my fellow whites complain about it, but I've never actually met any white person actually "discriminated against" because of it. I'm 60 years old and there have been times when I've been paid less or treated "less than" because of my gender, but I have seen a lot more discrimination against blacks in my time than against any other group. In my small midwestern hometown, the local fire chief said that no black man would ever be allowed on the department while he was chief--and it wasn't until he left the department in the late 60's that a very qualified black person was hired--this was just the way things were done in that time and place. The restaurant I worked at would not allow a black person to sit inside--they got curb service only. This was not the deep South, mind you, but a very typical midwestern town. Things are changing--I work with a very diverse population of college aged students and there is much more of a push towards inclusivity and getting beyond race. It's a much better time than 40 years ago--and thank God for that!

Re: Jack, Leroy, et al
The fact is there will always be racists regardless of their race. The idea was to eliminate institutional racism. What has ultimately occurred institutional racism against blacks in general has been replaced with institutional racism against white males.

What happened to the basic premise that institutional racism was bad after all are our governmental institutions supposed to benefit us all equally? Why should they benefit one racial group or one gender more than others? Is this any more right than when somebody of color couldn't get a government contract because they had too much melanin in their skin cells? Is it right that a white male is restricted from contracts because of an accident of birth which gave him an Y chromosome and too little melanin in his skin cells? I would suggest that both are wrong and are in fact the same evil just transferred to a different group. The groups which benefit from institutional racism never want it to end for obvious reasons. I find it interesting though that in this case one of the groups benefiting from institutional racism is still screaming they are victims of institutional racism. I'd like to see the practice end period. No more set asides, no more quotas, melanin and chromosome types become irrelevant. After all, in this day and age we have a serious presidential candidate who is a woman and one who is black. I would suggest that if you can run credibly to rule the country then discrimination isn't a problem suffered by "your people" any longer.

viruddh
I have read the folly that you have seen fit to expose on this thread and determined that I am superior to you in every way.

That I am also a conservative has nothing to do with that, but it is the natural result of my superior thoughtfulness.

And your condescension? Flat-out hilarious: in the annals of comedy, few things are funnier than pompous fool.