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Tuesday, January 01, 2008
Pat Buchanan :: Townhall.com Columnist
The Impotent Hegemon
by Pat Buchanan
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"Things are in the saddle, and ride mankind."

Emerson's couplet comes to mind as the New Year opens with Pakistan, the second largest Muslim country on Earth, in social and political chaos, trending toward a failed state with nuclear weapons.

Former Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto, whom the White House pressed to return home from exile to form an anti-Islamist alliance with President Pervez Musharraf, is dead, assassinated on the second try in two months.

Her 19-year-old son, who has spent most of his life outside the country, is now the declared leader of her Pakistan Peoples Party but is remaining at Oxford. Her husband, widely regarded as the bag man of the Bhutto family, is playing regent, denouncing the Pakistan Muslim League with which Musharraf is affiliated as a "murderers' league."

As riots ravage the country, the PPP is demanding that the Jan. 8 elections go forward and calling on the nation to repudiate Musharraf and bring the PPP to power -- in her memory.

Nawaz Sharif, a two-time prime minister like Bhutto who presided over Pakistan's test of an atom bomb, who is close to the Islamists, who was also ousted for corruption, and who is detested by Musharraf, had declared an election boycott. Now his party, too, is urging that the elections go forward. Sharif wants Musharraf out and himself in.

If Musharraf postpones the elections, or they are not regarded as free and fair, the whole nation could erupt. If he does not postpone the elections, he will almost surely be repudiated.

Revealed by all this is the inability, if not the impotence, of America to assure a desired outcome in a nation whose support is indispensable if we are not to lose the war in Afghanistan, now in its seventh year.

Moreover, the reactions of some U.S. presidential candidates suggest they are not ready to run this country, let alone Pakistan. After Bhutto's assassination, Bill Richardson called on Musharraf to resign. Hillary Clinton has suggested that Musharraf could be toppled and demanded that he submit to an outside investigation of the murder of Benazir Bhutto.

Nancy Pelosi is suggesting a cutoff in U.S. aid if there is no outside investigation and demanding the White House ensure that Pakistan's elections are "free and fair." Perhaps the Pakistanis will demand observers this year in Florida and Ohio.

But if Musharraf stands down, who steps in? Do we know? And if elections go forward, are we ready to accept any outcome?

After all, this is a country whose provinces bordering on Afghanistan, the Northwest Frontier and Baluchistan, are ruled by a coalition of Muslim parties sympathetic to the Taliban. Tribal regions along the border play host to the Taliban and perhaps Osama himself. Elements of Pakistan's military and intelligence services are Islamist. The nuclear proliferator A.Q. Khan and Osama are far more popular than Musharraf or Bush. Lose Pakistan in the war against al-Qaeda and the Taliban and you lose the Afghan war.

In recent elections in the Near and Middle East, many of them called at the insistence of President Bush, the winners were Hamas, Hezbollah, the Muslim Brotherhood, Moqtada al-Sadr and Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.

What are the primary U.S. interests today in Pakistan? That its nuclear weapons remain in secure and friendly hands and that Pakistan remains an ally in the war against al-Qaeda.

Whatever happens in the elections Jan. 8, or later, the United States should retain close ties to Pakistan's military. As Rome's emperor Septimus Severus counseled his sons on his deathbed, "Pay the soldiers. The rest do not matter."

But the United States must begin now to look at the longer term.

It seems clear that we are so hated in that country that any leader like Bhutto, seen as a friend and ally to the United States, is ever at mortal risk. Musharraf has himself been a repeated target of assassins.

Second, our ability to influence events is severely limited. What does democracy mean in a country where 60 percent of the people are illiterate and parties are fiefdoms of families and political instruments of religious radicals?

As Burke reminded us, "It is ordained in the eternal constitution of things that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters."

We need to ask ourselves hard questions. Has the blood we have shed in Afghanistan and Iraq, the hundreds of billions we have plunged into these wars, and into foreign aid, made us safer? Has it made us more friends than enemies? Perhaps, as is seen today in Anbar, locals are better at dealing with al-Qaeda than even our American soldiers.

Russia, China, India, and Japan are closer to Pakistan than we. Yet, none of them feels the need we apparently do to be so deeply enmeshed in her internal affairs.

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About The Author
Pat Buchanan is a founding editor of The American Conservative magazine, and the author of many books including State of Emergency: The Third World Invasion and Conquest of America .
 
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CHARLIE WILSON'S WAR!!!??
Sounds like we need Charlie Wilson and his band of thugs to collaborate with the NEOCONS, CIA and ISRAEL AND SAUDI ARABIA and payoff the Mujahadeen (Freedom Fighters) who are now called Al Queda and the Taliban Islamo fascists!


But this time, maybe instead of giving them Stinger missles and arms we should call in Zbigniew BZREZINSKI with a couple of Billion dollars and pay the Terrorist off like he did at Camp David with Sadat and Begin.

Afterall, we have been paying off Musharraf with 10 Billions of dollars every year. Seems like Bhutto had some of that money squirreled away in a swiss bank account too.

Or we could save American Taxpayers money and do what Ron Paul suggests and come home...and let them kill each other off instead of kill us.

Another homerun by Buchanan
Really outstanding article by Pat Buchanan.

Flawless analysis.

The fact Sharif, who is aligned with Islamic fundamentalists, wants elections is because he thinks he will win, or at least that Musharraf will be repudiated.

Leftist democrats in the U.S. are wrong, as usual. They have alot in common with Bush on calling for immediate elections, which probably will result in defeat for Musharraf.

At least Bush is dimly aware that the consequences of his insipid rhetoric about elections could result in Musharraf's defeat and victory for the radicals, which is precisely why he sought a Bhutto-Musharraf coalition.

The liberal dems are even too dimwitted to understand that.

I have strongly opposed Bush on his maniacal and extremely dangerous notion that "free elections"(an oxymoron in muslim lands)will usher in benevolent, tolerant regimes in the mideast.

But with Hillary, Richardson, and others calling for repudiation of Musharraf in the midst of so much turmoil in Pakistan, I find their suggestions to be utterly irresponsible.

Buchanan is right. We must maintain close ties to Pakistan's military. It has the keys to the nuclear arsenal. It is the one stablizing influence in the nation.

Another quote from Burke, to complement the one offered by Buchanan:

"The effect of liberty on individuals is that they may do what they please; we ought to see what it will please them to do, before we risk congratulations".

Short Sighted Non Sequitur
Pat Buchanan's column is in the end a very poorly reasoned short sighted non sequitur in calling for isolationism.

Without our actions in Iraq and Afghanistan, you would see a much different situation in those two countries -- both with governments friendly to radical jihadists, the Taliban in Afghanistan and Saddam in Iraq, and harboring terrorists who would be launching attacks on the West including America. Pakistan would then be a far, far more dangerous place, one that woudl be completely coopted to the radical jihadist cause, and certainly not a place where a leader was at least nominally aligned with America in fighting the radical jihadists. When you contemplate what the world would be like if we had not intervened in Iraq and Aghanistan, you would quickly realize that yes, we are safer by having intervned in Iraq and Afghanistan.

If you are going to challenged the wisdom of our actiosn in Iraq and Afghanistan, then you need to analyze what the situation would likely be if we had not intervened and kicked outr the Taliban and Saddam. You cannot, as Pat Buchanan does, just say look at the dangers in Pakistan and throw up your hands in despair.

The dumbing down of Buchanan
The First paragraph was misquoted, The second was dumb, American can not "pressure" anyone to go anywhere. The woman went on her own knowing the taliban was angry at her for supporting them in the beginning then turning against them. Is she the only pakistani in the world that can lead the people to an anti-terrorist pakistan(were in trouble anyway)? The last paragraph was dumb; russia, china, india and japan are not christian nations supporting Israel so the pakistani missles will not be aimed at them until America is gone and they refuse to submit(Islam). Those other countries could not care less about Israel so the inter-action is not the same. Every thing in between the first paragraph and the last was retread dribble. If you blame America for her murder, you can not be a deep thinker or a realist. Anti-terrorist muslims are being murdered every day but they are not media darlings so you do not hear about it. I am comfortable with the region being run by theocrats and military dictatorships that are aware that U.S. nuclear submarines are in striking distance with our own nuclear missles and if they come to America they will be killed.

Oh, by the way!
Any democrat elected to POTUS will kill American with a suicidal foreign policy.

Oh, by the way!
Any democrat elected to POTUS will kill American with a suicidal foreign policy.

Flavorless
No offense, and I mean that, but you might want to change the title of your piece from the "dumbing down of Buchanan", to the "dumbing down of Flavorless", and I say this for the following reason.

If you are comfortable with the region being run by theocrats and military dictators, then you must be truly ecstatic over Iran.

By the way, I agree with your point about being comfortable with military dictators running parts of the region.

But then why did we remove Saddam?

You need to have a discussion with G.W. Bush on this matter, and straighten him out.

I don't think he is quite as comfortable with the theocracy in Iran as you appear to be, and he certainly had no use for the military dictator Saddam Hussein.

I do think we agree that we must not pull the rug out from under Musharraf, even if our confused friends on the left seem to want us to do.

I don't think we agree that Bush has crafted a wise foreign policy, however.

You think he has.

I don't.

the Money-Grubbing Hegemon
Americans fight and die in Afghanistan to enrich the "hegemon" with blood money. Several accounts of military actions lead to the only possible conclusion: the "powers that be" in Cesspool, DC and their behind-the-scenes puppetmasters (the real hegemony) do NOT want the US military to vanquish al qaeda and the taliban. If they really wanted to win then the military would not always leave open one obvious escape. Whether it's an air corridor, a mountain passage, the only deliberately not-patrolled road out of Dodge, or whatnot, our US military personnel hem the enemy into 3 sides of a box, but leave open the 4th side; saying, "Hey! Escape is over here!"

Even if our military won, the victory would be fleeting because the RIM (radical islamofascist militants) replacements are already groomed and ready to continue islam's world conquest. Tomorrow would bring a new Osama, a new one-eyed fascist militant cleric to lead the taliban, etc., etc., et al.

Thus, the money-grubbing hegemon is happy to trade away US lives for profit. Pakistani politics is the diversionary sideshow; like seeing magic tricks, focus on the diversion so you don't see the chicanery. The hegemon doesn't have the power to determine Pakistan's political future because it's a conglomerate of too many tribal-clan RIMs; which is the perfect excuse for the hegemon to exercise its expertise -- meddle in others' lives while exploiting their situation for profits.

for jerabaub
jerabaub writes: "At least Bush is dimly aware that the consequences of his insipid rhetoric about elections could result in Musharraf's defeat and victory for the radicals, which is precisely why he sought a Bhutto-Musharraf coalition."

Bush's naivete accomplished nothing but getting Bhutto killed.

The dirty little secret about Pakistan is this: It's one country where a MAJORITY of the people now like Osama bin Laden and al-Qaeda. They're more radicalized now than they were when Bhutto was last in power.

The idea that Bhutto could ever have political power over this collection of fanatics was a fantasy of Condi Rice's, part and parcel of Bush's refusal to admit that fundamentalist Muslims are NOT "just like Methodists in their love of freedom," as he claimed once.

Actually, Hillary's proposal for an independent investigation of the Bhutto murder makes a lot of sense: It's probably the only way that Musharraf can clear his name personally. Otherwise he is going to be toppled in a coup d'etat sooner or later. And whoever replaces him, like this Sharif character who is 100% Islamist, is going to be worse.


for Phil Byler
Phil Byler writes: "If you are going to challenged the wisdom of our actiosn in Iraq and Afghanistan, then you need to analyze what the situation would likely be if we had not intervened and kicked outr the Taliban and Saddam."

If we had not invaded Iraq, Iran would today be facing Saddam's Republican Guard, freeing the U.S. Army to beef up its forces in Afghanistan; and the Iranians would be unable to stir up trouble inside Iraq because the Shiites would still be under Saddam's boot. al-Sadr would likely have been shot by Saddam, long ago.

The U.S. is now trying to get a coalition of Arab nations together against Iran's nuclear ambitions. If we hadn't invaded Iraq, Saddam would probably have been on our side on that one. Heck, he might have threatened war against Iran himself, rather than have to live next door to a hostile Shiite nuclear power.

And most importantly, the vast majority of Americans fully supported our operation in Afghanistan. If we hadn't invaded Iraq, public support for the War on Terror would be much higher, and still bipartisan. And that would be a major strategic advantage for the United States.

The result of the Iraq War has been to divide America politically on the wisdom of even using military force against terrorists. And a divided country is a weaker country.


Thank God.....
....people like Steve L. and Pat Buchanan along with Dr. Ron Paul, will never be in a position to make foreign policy decisions.

SteveL writes..
"If we hadn't invaded Iraq, public support for the War on Terror would be much higher, and still bipartisan. And that would be a major strategic advantage for the United States."

Do you really believe Bush would be enjoying "bipartisan support" for ANY policy that was HIS idea?

If he had invaded only Afganistan, the libs would be screaming that the real problem is Iraq. The long and the short of it is that Bush would have been pilloried by the left no matter what he did.

The lack of "public support" you talk about is driven by the constant din of the Bush-hating leftist media.

Al-Qaeda denies Benazir Bhutto killing
Al-Qaeda usually is quick to take credit for killings to demonstrate power. Did not the leader of Pakistan have must to gain with Bhutto death?

CM-AL-QAEDA linked Pakistani militant Baitullah Mehsud was not involved in the assassination of Benazir Bhutto, his spokesman said.

“He had no involvement in this attack,” Mehsud’s spokesman Maulvi Omar said by telephone from an undisclosed location.

“This is a conspiracy of the Government, army and intelligence agencies,” he said.

“I strongly deny it. Tribal people have their own customs. We don’t strike women.”

The Pakistan Government has claimed that Mehsud was responsible for Benazir Bhutto’s killing as she left an election rally in Rawalpindi on Thursday.



INTERESTING FROM NPR LISTEN HERE

http://controlcongress.com/uncategorized/al-qaeda-denies-be nazir-bhutto-killing



Michigander
You are so right. Nothing whatsoever would have stopped the day by day criticism of all of President Bush's words, appointments, decisions, actions.

Dems have never ever excepted him and his election thus proving that they think only of their political standing and not what is good for the Amrican people.

And don't you all love how the democrat candidates politicized their response to the Bhutto killing rather than responding with a carefully considered response like McCain who talked about the process of the country reaching a decision as how to react not feeling compelled to have an instant reaction.

Joe Biden: Dem Rivals “Not Making Sense”
“Observe what’s been going on in Pakistan and you’ll see not many candidates have spoken out,” Biden said. “And those few who have spoken don’t make a lot of sense.”

READ MORE

http://controlcongress.com/uncategorized/bhutto-dies-in-bom b-blast


loco,
Yes, and what makes the whole thing even sadder is that Buchanan (whom I once revered as a clear-thinking conservative voice) has gone completely off the reservation. Neither the left nor the right can figure out what he's up to. He's made a cottage industry of criticizing Bush/American policy, but he never tells us what he would do differently (until after the fact) if he were in charge.

Pat, I love you, but as a side point,
can you please quit referring to countries as "she"? It's grating and unnecessary. Just call them "it," okay? It's only a small concession to political correctness and, in my opinion, not a bad one.

a telling post on this topic
re:
************************************************
Pancho writes: Thursday, November, 22, 2007 11:06 AM

Lebanon vs Iraq

Of course the big difference is that in Iraq we toppled not only the ruling regime, but the entire structure (security, economy, education, infrastructure, government services) was eradicated with the plan to build from the ground up American-style. This neo-con plan was the result of the alliance between Wolfowitz and Chalabi, a completely westernized Iraqi who hadn't even set foot in the country for years.

The billion dollar embassy, the permanent bases, and the re-building have and will continue to be one of the most expensive follies ever undertaken by an administration, and there's little guarantee that any of these actions will result in long-term stability sans a continued and treasury sapping military occupation.

*************************************************

The above post by another savant was so cogent that I saved it... we will have spent $2 TRILLION in Iraq (per the CBO) perhaps only to make things WORSE in the M.E. Those funds might have restored ravaged S.S. or rebuilt crumbling infrastructure. Instead, even as he was snookered by Perle and Wolfowitz, Presidente Jorge was surreptitously promising to send S.S. funds down to Mexico and work for MEXICANS to assure Scamnesty-- EGAD! Say it ain't so, Jorge!

SteveL hows this different from Iraq.
"And most importantly, the vast majority of Americans fully supported our operation in Afghanistan."

Both Iraq and Afghanistan were supported by the Majority at the begining, neither had support of the press with constant comparisons to the British and Soviet ventures into Afghanistan and our looming defeat.

As to Iraq joining with us to defeat Iran, ever hear the phrase "pipe dream"


Pat Nails it Again
Our One-Party System (with two wings of the same War Party) continues to support interventionism, even when most of the American People reject it.

The British did about as good a job as can be done in trying to run a world empire, and they frankly screwed things up royally. America, run by graduates of public schools who can't even find Pakistan on an unmarked map, presumes to follow Britain and do better.

The Founders called for a non-interventionist foreign policy. Pat Buchanan and Ron Paul still hold to that very wise policy.

Michigander
is right Mr. Buchanan about you making a cottage industry out of criticising Bush and his administration. Because your drumbeat is so constant, I have lost faith in you.

And Lodestar...Folly??? Didn't Bush's actions halted Lybia nuclear bomb action as well as Iran's, both in fear of what we would do to them?

And how about N. Korea,where we now have inspectors in the country?

What crystal ball do you have that says Iraq will not be friendly to us?

How important do you think our permanent bases will be in psychologically in controlling regional militancy?

What about Afghanistan and the riding of Taliban control of their country and its postion as a training ground for more terrorist? Yes, they are still a problem but far less than they once were.

SteveL
We agree on Bush's naivete on the muslim world, which is extremely dangerous.

You raise some very good points.

Bush is a creature of his failed ideology and rhetoric, and was instrumental in getting Bhutto to return to Pakistan and enter the political process, which he hoped would compel Musharaff to make accommodations with her, resulting in a coalition government.

The problem with that scenario is that anyone we support in Pakistan is likely to be viewed by most Pakistanis with great hostility...even hatred.

And even a dim lightbulb like Bush understood that, which is why we did not publicly throw our support to Bhutto, even as we helped to surreptitiously arrange her return to Pakistani political process.

That being said, we did not cause her death. She wanted to return, and was aware of the great danger.

I fully agree with you that Bush lives in a fantasy-land where, as you say, he refuses to admit that fundamentalist muslims are NOT just like methodists in their love for freedom, except I would remove the adjective "fundamentalist", and simply say in effect that Bush fails to recognize that muslims have a different concept of freedom than do westerners, or to use Bush's example, methodists.

"Freedom", to a muslim, is a whole different creature than "freedom", to a methodist or catholic: Very, very different, much more restricted and confining...not even on the same playing field, not even in the same part of the galaxy.

But then, Bush is naive on many issues.

The battle now is to prevent Bush's naivete from further damaging our nation.

And the liberal democrats are of absolutely no help in that matter. They too are creatures of their own failed rhetoric and ideology.

Gen. Lee writes
"Let's get it together, Pat!"

Good point, as Pat has seemingly missed the history of US performance as hegemon for Pakistan:
(1) 1951-1969, the only time issue was raised was after Pakistan decided to attack India in 1965 (bad decision, as India shoved them back)--with weapons US had supplied for fighting against communists (because India had also used some weapons US had supplied it in 1962 for the defence)
(2) 1971, US could theoretically have pressed Yahya Khan to step down and accept Mujib as Prime Minister--and didn't do so, as Pakistan was Nixon's jump-off-point for his not-so-secret "ping-pong diplomacy" visits to PRC
(3) Only after Wilson's friend Jack Wheeler actually found the Pakistanis giving most arms aid to Gulbuddin Hekmatyar (who till then had done NO fighting) and mentioned it to Reagan, did the situation of Afghan rebels actually improve***
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=59 402

Basically, the amount of influence the US has had as "hegemon" of Pakistan can be summarised as:
(1) financial support (Washington DC is considered as Pakistan's financial capitol, amongst its four)
(2) some partying with leaders/despots (quite frequent with many of the military despots after Ayub Khan--Ayub himself wasn't much of a partyer due to being a skinflint)

***Another section of arms was given by ISI to what would be the seeds of the Taliban--on orders of Zia and Akhtar Rahman. Basically, Taliban and Hekmatyar were Johnny-come-latelies who did little (if any) actual fighting against Soviets. Soviets got defeated after Reagan (who had heard the true ground situation from Wheeler) decided to bypass Pakistan and supply Northern Alliance. FYI, this also reveals the truth behind Pakistan's claim of "having defeated Soviets" (reality--Northern Alliance, NOT supplied by ISI, did the work; Pakistan-supplied groups came in after and took over, due to having a lot more arms already).

Iraq and Afghanistan are NOT identical
Even though, and I'm a conservative, I find myself increasingly disagreeing with Pat, he still has a knack for cutting to the heart of matters, which is why I find his columns still interesting reading. I supported our invasion of Iraq, but I have no problem with people who think it was a bad idea and were in that camp right from the get-go (like Howard Dean). I can live with people questioning the wisdom of going into Iraq and even cudgeling George Bush for it, but to conflate Iraq and Afghanistan is totally unjustified. There's one reason and one reason only why America is in Afghanistan, and everyone, even the most flaming liberal, knows it very well: because that's where the murderers of 3,000 people on 9/11/2007 were based and harbored. No 9/11, no American boots on the ground in Afghanistan. 9/11 made Afghanistan America's issue. George Bush no more made war on Afghanistan for the express purpose of exporting democracy to it than Franklin Roosevelt sought war with Japan with the express purpose of exporting democracy there: both presidents made war to crush the governments who brought war to our shores. Pat, haven't you noticed that even though Democrats may snipe around the edges of our policy of combat in Afghanistan, practically none with any national influence are calling for a quick pull-out of American troops from that country, like many have regarding Iraq? What does that tell you? That even Democrats know that our involvement in Afghanistan is heartily supported by an American populace that, while it may question why we're in Iraq, is crystal-clear about why American troops are in Afghanistan.

SteveL and Pat Buchanan are wrong
Steve, shame on you.

It wasn't the invasion of Iraq that was a mistake, but the nation-building.

Had we invaded Iraq as conquerors, the war would be all but over now. Of course, that would require more than 50% of the U.S. population to stop being stupid liberal hedonists, but I digress.

We had allies in Turkey, Jordan, Saudi Arabia and Kuwait. We had already invaded and pretty much taken Afghanistan. All that was left was to drive a wedge into the middle east, squish Iran between two forces, swing west and deliver a hammerblow to Syria, then dictate terms to Saudi Arabia.

THAT would have been a winning strategy. One which the idiot 50% of the U.S. population who need to feel good, especially about themselves, would not tolerate.

The fact is Truman made the 2nd or 3rd biggest mistake in U.S. history. He should have continued the war until we had a globe-girdling empire. The only time in human history that such was possible.

Phil Byler
Take heart -- it's just Pat's way. He could write on any topic at all and summarize his point at the end as: "So, the US should trust not in arms, engagement, or an actual foreign policy, but in the Peace Fairy."

This thesis is so absurdly shortsighted that words fail:

"Russia, China, India, and Japan are closer to Pakistan than we. Yet, none of them feels the need we apparently do to be so deeply enmeshed in her internal affairs."

Um, well, Pat, if you knew any history prior to 1945, you would know that in our absence, not just one but probably all four of these Asian powers would be enmeshed in the internal affairs of Pakistan, the entire Middle East, and each other. The REASON they don't feel the need to coerce events is precisely that US influence puts a damper on destabilizing factors in south Asia, as it does in Europe. Our power IS their security environment. Any peril we put them in by relinquishing our present role will become OUR peril, as they maneuver to mitigate it.

It's also erroneous to imply that the powers in question are not involved, in varying degrees, in Pakistan. China is the purveyor of sanctioned items to everyone in south Asia except India. China and Russia spy on Pakistan, and seek to purchase influence there, every bit as much as they do in Iran, Indonesia, and on each other's territory. India is in a perpetual worry over border eruptions with Pakistan, and over Pakistan's ties with China. Delhi always seeks to shape events over the border. Japan relies wholly on US power for her extended regional security (e.g., tradeways that involve south Asian geography), but is also cultivating Pakistan with joint manufacturing and public works projects, as a means of countering China athwart the road to the Middle East.

Nah, Pat. Your whole summary thesis falls apart, on examination.

Standshisground, Jdw
I agree with you Iraq and Afghanistan are not identical.

As a conservative, I find myself agreeing more with Buchanan, and less with Bush.

Can't imagine why. Cough.

I also agree our invasion of Afghanistan had nothing to do with Bush's vapid notion of bringing democracy.

It had to do with removing a regime that had harbored those who attacked us on 9/11.

Jdw, true, we did not invade Iraq as conquerers, but rather as a result of naive, touchy-feelie notions of bringing democracy to a people who supposedly thirst for the concept. Bush even now refers to our "noble" mission of helping Iraqis embrace democracy.

However, Turkey, Saudi Arabia and Jordan were not in favor of G.W. Bush's decision to invade Iraq. In fact, they all opposed it.

Still, both you and Standshisground deserve a fine cigar for your posts, not one of those suspicious looking, used cigars from the infamous Clinton oval office, but a pristine cigar that even Bush shill Rush Limbaugh would covet.

jerabaub
The reason for taking out saddam was to stop him from threatening his neighbors and shooting at American aircraft enforcing the no fly zone and basically being a Don Corleone wannabe. The squeeky wheel got his grease. But nation building, no way, if the Iraqi people wanted a democracy they would have one already. GWB has screwed up alot of things in the region but Iraq is the worst. What a waste of people and money saying God's gift to everyone is freedom. We don't have the same God and their religion is called "submit", doesn't sound like freedom to me. Don't get me wrong, I don't like the idea of Iran having nukes but I'm not afraid if they have them because they could be brought to their knees without putting a boot on the ground and they know it. Israel could take care of any threat if the world would allow them to defend themselves without condemnation. Any investigation into this murder would be a waste of time but it is the usual reactionary fodder from the weak democrats. Forward looking as to what is next would be more productive. Buchanan needs to shun the blame America for everything bad crowd just to bolstor his anti-nation building opinion, I'm already on his side. Musharraf said it best when he stated that "control over the population is better for the country than democracy", in pakistans case I agree.

To SteveL and jerabaub
You two are not still not truly dealing with the situation if Saddam were stil in power. You are fantasing Iraq and Iran fighting; maybe, but there would be other outcoems more desitrable to an ascendant radical Islamic idelology -- Islaomo-fascism. By now, Saddam -- the Butcher of Baghdad -- would not only have tortured and killed tens of thousands of more Iraqis but also be free of U.N. sanctions, having successfully thumbed his nose at the international community for violating 17 arms resolutions and corrupting the U.N. by the Oil-for Fodd scandal to lift sanctions. What that would mean is that Saddam would have his WMDs that he intended to have (and may still have had before the invasion according to Iraqi Air Firce General Georges Sada) and would have had a nuclear device by now (the translated Saddam government documents published by the NY Times indicated that). A nuclear Saddam would mean that Iran would calculate that Iran could not afford not to be nuclear either; and both a Saddam Iraq and a radical Iran could have a race to see who would use it first against Israel and who could blackmail Europe into more humiliation. Both a Saddam Iraq and a radical Iran would also be safe harbors for terorists to attack the West including America. A very dangerous world. Not a place for an isolationsism in this country that was shown to not have been workable in the 20th century, first with German National Socialism and then with Russian and Chinese communism.

jerabaub
Jerabuab -

This was a solid thought out piece by Pat B. And your comments are right on.

I can only think that US foreign policy would be much better if it conformed to that medical oath - "First, do no harm." When will we realize there are problems in the world that the US govt can not solve. Worse yet when the US govt trys to "solve them" it only makes a bad situation worse.


If Hegemony is Killing America...
Why raise the hackles of its supporters by referring to its ineffectiveness as "impotence"? That just makes American hawks want to wade even deeper into the quagmire.

What turned this conservative around was the realization that the only thing dumber than a centrally planned economy is a centrally planned world order. The principle of "first, do no harm" (DrBob beat me to it) works as well for military action as it does for affirmative action. When I think of bloated, self-serving bureaucracies, the military-industrial complex is no longer my dogmatic blind spot.

American foreign policy conflates democracy with imperialism. As a result, in many parts of the world, all friends of democracy now fall under suspicion - and into danger. American military hegemony cannot win hearts and minds, but it can most certainly lose them.

Governments tend to screw up top-down solutions. American military misadventures in the ME are Exhibit A. It's a glorious epiphany. I'm not sure why it's taking American conservatives so long to see the light.

The boy who doesn't scratch at poison ivy isn't just smarter than the boy who does. He's also braver. That's your talking point, Pat.

Head-In-The-Sand Nonsense
The comments posted after mine of yesterday at 4:20 PM continue to reflect a lack of realism about inaction. In the age of Islamo-fascist terrorism, the notion that we just need to "do no harm" by not getting involved is head-in-the-sand nonsense. That means leaving a Taliban in power and a Saddam Hussein in power and watching terrorism unbound wreaking death not just in the Middle East but in Europe and America as well. You are living in a land of delusion that we can just not get involved and it won't hurt us. The world conflicts of the 20th century should have disabused you of that, but certainly the attacks culminating in 9/11 should have finished it off. Inaction is a form of action that can and I believe certainly would have been the most dangerous course to take since 9/11.

Michale Barone's Wisdom
In the last column by Michael Barone, he corectly observed that there is nothing that American military cannot do when under operating under sound strategy and capable leadership. Pat Buchanan may be impotent, but Amercia is not -- far, far from it.

They Hate Us ?

Then why are Pakastani's lined up at the U.S. Embassy begging for a Green Card?

If given the chance, half that nation would give their right arms to come to America.

Get it right...

Democrats hate us, not the Muslims.

Those who are ignorant of history . . .
It was interesting to read many of the comments here about Mr. Buchanan's column. I especially love Mr. Byler's continued paranoia that there is an islamofascist behind every tree in the world.

I worked in the Standard Oil Building in Chicago when the Shah of Iran was being overthrown. Their embassy was on the 79th floor and our offices were on the 78th floor. Not a very secure feeling.

I ask that some of you go back and look at the history of Iran before the Shah, during the Shah's reign and up to his overthrow. Then compare that to what has happened in Iraq and what is happening in Pakistan right now.

I am admittedly not a fan of George W. Bush. This is especially true when it comes to his handling (or should I say LACK of handling) of foreign affairs. I truly have to wonder if he ever took a course in the history of the United States during the last half of the 20th century. He is opposed to dictators who are opposed to the US (Iraq), but thinks nothing of dictators who are supposedly allied with us (Pakistan). His foreign policy through Secretary of State Rice appears to be haphazard at best. Secretary of State Rice may be EXTREMELY intelligent, but she is either inept, or other forces in the White House are over ruling her decisions and recommendations.

All of this said, I tend to be an optimist. Given President Bush's horrible record in the area of foreign affairs, I feel that just about anyone we elect (Republican or Democrat) will do a better job than him.

carlos
This is a set up for the DEMS and the DRIVE BYS know who the enemy is because all they have to do is look in the MIrror. I have traveled the world and ask people why they hate us so much and they state to me that they dont hate the U.S. your own people hate the U.S. Its your MSM and the DEM Leaders who are spreading that Propaganda for their own POLITICAL Agenda,. I asked a German fellow that ? and he laugh. You Americans are your worst enemy is what he told me.

How true it is Just to have POLITICAL POWER in this Nation.

To dogjudge
To remember history, you need first to understand it, which I don't think you do.

Paranoia about Islamo-fascists such that I see one behind every tree? That is pure hooey on your part. I am being anything but paranoid in calling for a realistic appraisal of what the world would have been like if we had not intervened in Afghanistan and Iraq before judging the merits of those actions compared to the action of inaction.

Look at the overthrow of the Shah in Iran to understand what is now going on in Iraq and Pakistan? No. The ascension to power by the Ayatollah Khomeni resulted in a radical Shiite theocratic regime being imposed in Iran, which is not what a lot of Iranians wanted then and not what a lot of Iranians want now. The overthrow of the Shah does not teach anything about Iraq, where the current government is the product of three democratic votes taken in adopting a written Constitution and then electing the current leadership (remember the purple finger?). Courtesy the surge and the Sunni rejection of al Qaeda in Iraq, that country is on its way to a better future. The overthrow of the Shah does not say much about Pakistan since many of the protestors are supporters of America friendly Bhutto.

George Bush being terrible about foreign policy? We shall see what history says, but I don't think that will be the judgment of history.

THE ONE THAT IS GOING TO BE IN CHARGE
Come one people, we know who the next leader of Pakistan is going to be, and he even has his headquarters there. Osama Bin Laden is going be running the show as soon as Musharraf is either deposed, or assassinated.
How the Western world let Pakistan develop the atomic bomb all the while being the Islamic wild card. But I guess this is what you get when people are just too smart for their own good.

Pat has always...
made it clear he did not see the wisdom in invading Iraq. In hindsight, he's been proven correct. However, Pat has always maintained the position that now that we did it, we need to win in Iraq and that failure there is not an option.

Just because Pat correctly pointed out then, and now, that Bush and his neo-con minions were fools to invade Iraq...doesn't mean he is some sort of left-leaning weenie.

cjb56
Pat has flipped and flopped on every party. He has ran in them all that ought to set the record straight right there. Pat just causes a stir because HELL he dont even no what he is.

Pat is an old school conservative.
You folks who drink the neo-con kool-aid will never understand Pat's sound plan for the preservation of this nation. Pat is a student of history, and he sees troubling signs that the U.S. is complicit in it's own decline. To paint him as some flip-flopping nut for being bold enough to speak the truth is silly. Pat is a patriot.

cjb56
Pat isnt old school Conservative now he might be old school Laxitive but he threw the Conservatives under the bus long time ago. Pat could care less about how this country is ran all he wants is the MONEY. But please dont tell consevatives what a LIB thinks we should be doing. Better tell your DO NOTHING DEM LED CONGRESS.

Pat Buchanan, the chief ideologue
of American Peasant Party proves once again that peasants should be tilling dirt not words.
What a load of total c-r-a-p.
But the questions PB flings inexpertly can be answered readily.
"Has the blood we have shed in Afghanistan and Iraq, the hundreds of billions we have plunged into these wars, and into foreign aid, made us safer?"
Yes, much safer; the terrs are expending what firepower they have "over there" not over here".
"Has it made us more friends than enemies?"
More enemies, but who gives a #@!*#, see answer #1.
"Perhaps, as is seen today in Anbar, locals are better at dealing with al-Qaeda than even our American soldiers."
Yes, but the "locals" need a jump start that can be provided only by American soldiers.
"Russia, China, India, and Japan are closer to Pakistan than we. Yet, none of them feels the need we apparently do to be so deeply enmeshed in her internal affairs."
That's because the Pakistani muslims, the most radical muslims in the world, hate Russia - the murderer of Chechens, and China - the oppressor of Tajiks, even more than they hate America. India, is the eternal enemy of Pakistanis, who's "meddling" there has already caused wars, including an almost-nuclear one. And Japan has been so emasculated by American occupation after WWII, that even today most Japanese couldn't scare up a firm opinion on what to have for breakfast all by themselves.
Anything else Buchananista peasants would like to have explained to them one sentence at a time?


Bhutto Head of Dynasty
What I learned about Bhutto's political party makes me want to whistle past the graveyard.

Bhutto was at the head of a party calling for democratic change -- but dedicated to a personality cult of one -- Benazir Bhutto.


naleckid?
How are "they" going to get over here to do any harm to our country?

They (Islamic Terrorists) don't have a navy or an air force. There isn't going to be a mass D-Day invasion on the shores of Virginia, where hordes of terrorists land and drive through to D.C.

The only way they can really hurt us is to use our lax immigration and visa laws to their advantage (like the 9/11 hijackers did) or walk across our open borders. Pat Buchanan has been most outspoken and clear in his desire to secure our borders and fix our broken immigration policies. That is in stark contrast to what the current occupant of the White House, and his corporate cronies, desire.

How is our country made more secure by continuing to send our manufacturing base overseas?

When we no longer have a viable manufacturing base within our own borders...and we no longer grow our own food...drill for our own oil, etc....we will be at the mercy of the rest of the world. They continue to finance our ever-growing debt and they continue to steal away our manufacturing base and intellectual property. All of this is being done to the benefit of the corporatists who are running this country into the ground. Pat Buchanan has been outspoken in these matters, as well.

This current neo-con corporate globalist empire building course of this country will only lead to a more vulnerable nation.

Just one more explanation, naleckid:
Your first sentence argues we're all safer because of aggressive military action. You're second sentence admits this policy has made more enemies than friends, but that this doesn't matter, given our enhanced safeness.

What I still would like patiently explained to me is how this policy has made things safer for our children, who some day will have to deal with the radicalized children of the victims of this gloriously aggressive policy.

"One sentence at a time" is great, but if you normally explain things some other way, I'm flexible (and more than a little intrigued).

I almost wish you're right
conservativeman...part of me almost wishes you're right about Bin Laden running Pakistan after Musharraf exits the scene one way or another. Because then he'd have to surface: you can't run a place as big as Pakistan from hiding (as Saddam Hussein found out firsthand about Iraq). And then he'd finally be somewhere we could get to him. Besides, I'd question whether the majority of Pakistan's population would want to be ruled, overtly or covertly, by a Arab-speaking Saudi. I doubt a lot of Missourians who sympathized with Jesse James and helped provide sanctuary for him and his band after the Civil War actually wanted him as their governor. And cjb56...for all your detractors, you do have a very valid point, that the only way for the jihadists to bring their war to American soil is through accesses America itself provides them, just as the 19 9/11 hijackers did. Although I've soured on Pat Buchanan considerably over the last several years, you are absolutely right that all he has done is point out how Westerners have become complicit in their own demise, as he does in his book The Death of the West, that Westerners (including too many Americans) have come to value considerations such as political correctness or other nonsensical things over their very survival. The fact that all the dithering after 9/11 has failed to produce effective border policing or a commonsense approach to airline safety even with several years of a Republican president and a Republican-controlled Congress is Exhibit A to this point.
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