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Tuesday, December 11, 2007
Pat Buchanan :: Townhall.com Columnist
The Mitt-Mike Religious War
by Pat Buchanan
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Four weeks before New Hampshire and three weeks before the Iowa caucuses, the Republican race has become a proxy religious war.

On one side is a Baptist preacher who called homosexuality "an aberrant, unnatural and sinful lifestyle" that "can pose a dangerous public health risk," urged the isolation of AIDS sufferers, and declared in 1998 that we must "answer the alarm clock and take this nation back for Christ."

On the other is a devout Mormon whose finest hour was last week's televised address in which he refused to back away from any precept of his faith but affirmed: "Jesus Christ is the Son of God and the Savior of mankind."

Yet, the Baptist preacher has implied that Mormonism may be a cult and is running as the Christian conservative, i.e., God's, candidate.

This is not the wonkish stuff of which so much politics is now made. This is high-voltage, and faith and morality are likely to be major issues in political debate in the weeks between now and the first engagements of 2008.

The Baptist preacher, ex-Gov. Mike Huckabee, has taken a sudden and strong lead in Iowa, with ex-Gov. Mitt Romney the only man who can stop him there. And what Huckabee has said about the homosexual lifestyle is less likely to hurt him with caucus-goers than to solidify his support as a godly man. Moreover, he is surging nationally, as the former front-runners -- McCain, Rudy and Thompson -- slowly fade.

Indeed, with the Mitt-Mike religious war on the Republican side and the Bill-and-Hillary vs. Obama-Oprah celebrity battle on the Democratic side, it is hard to see how other candidates can attract the media before Christmas, New Year's and the bowl games. Then, Iowa and New Hampshire are suddenly upon us. How, for example, does John Edwards attract attention, let alone Biden, Dodd, Richardson and Kucinich?

The folly of Rudy, McCain and Thompson dissing the Iowans by taking a walk on the straw poll in August is apparent. While Romney won comfortably, Huckabee was the real winner. By running a surprising and strong second, he drove his rival for the Christian vote, Sam Brownback, out of the race and became a favorite of the national media. Given the opening and opportunity, he did the rest himself.

Using moral and social issues that appeal to the Christian right, and an economic populism that appeals to working folks left out of the market run-up and left behind, Huckabee has run a fine race and could break away, as may be seen by the hailstorm he is undergoing. As he says, no hunter shoots at a dead animal.

The questions now are whether Huckabee has peaked, whether he can be stopped, and, if so, who stops him?

Today, the one man who can do that is Romney. If Romney wins Iowa, not only would that break Huckabee's momentum, but Romney would likely surge to victory in New Hampshire, five days later, where he leads, and in Michigan, a week after, where his father was governor and Romney is a famous name. Comes then South Carolina. If Mitt is 3-0 going into South Carolina and everyone else is 0 for 3, it is hard to see who beats him there.

If Romney loses Iowa, however, he has to win New Hampshire or he is done. But if Huckabee wins Iowa, he need not win New Hampshire for he has already moved into the lead in South Carolina.

The question for the other Republicans is the same: Where do you win? And if you don't win early, do you have the resources to go on?

John McCain, the candidate of the Union-Leader, either wins New Hampshire or goes home. For he is going to be humiliated in Iowa if he does not drop out. And if he cannot win the Granite State, his strongest in 2000, how does he raise the money to carry on, and where does he win?

Fred Thompson appears to have little chance to win any of the first three. He is banking on holding on until South Carolina, despite a probable three straight losses before then and no publicity to rival what Huckabee and Romney are getting right now. Fred may not make it to South Carolina.

Which brings us to Rudy, the front-runner. His hope: That Huckabee wins Iowa, McCain wins New Hampshire, Romney wins Michigan, and Thompson or McCain wins South Carolina. Then, after four defeats, he comes roaring back in Florida, grabs the headlines going into Feb. 5, when half the primaries are held, and marches forward to the nomination.

Whoever thought up this strategy is the kind of guy who plays Russian roulette with four bullets in the chamber. The peril of the Rudy strategy is if a Romney, a Huckabee or a McCain wins in New Hampshire and South Carolina and catches a fire no attack ad can put out. Already, Rudy's national lead is vanishing. How he maintains it through December and four straight January losses is, as they say, problematic.

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About The Author
Pat Buchanan is a founding editor of The American Conservative magazine, and the author of many books including State of Emergency: The Third World Invasion and Conquest of America .
 
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Who Can Win At A National Level
I am really skeptical about a Huckabee nomination. He is extremely personable and easy going. His biggest problem is that the primary source of support will be from the far right. I don't see him capturing moderates and I have a hard time picturing votes flooding in from the Left.

Huckabee's one solid contribution to the field is his staunch social/moral conservatism. Again, this appeals only to the folks on the far right. Moderates and liberals generally hold different views than Huckabee on issues like abortion and gay rights. Once you get beyond social issues you have a guy who wants to abolish the IRS and isn't up to date with what Iran is doing. Don't even ask about tax hikes and running interference on parole boards.

Romney, I think, has greater national appeal. Aside from the Mormon thing, he can tout a strong economic background (something Huckabee can't). He also has a history of being an executive in the private as well as public sector. His (cough, cough) recent conversion to social conservatism should be enough to hold most of the far right at bay. While his conservative fiscal policies can capture the moderate wing. Who knows, he might garner a few Dem votes while he is at it. You can't win in Mass without getting some folks on the left to vote for you.

Huckabee all the way!
The American people are already lining up behind Gov Huckabee. He's not only going to win Iowa he's going to run strong in NH, probably win in SC and FL. He's already in a statistical dead heat with Rudy nationwide, but by the time Rudy even gets into the game, Huckabee will already have won several states.

http://www.mikehuckabee.com


If we get Huckabee, we're done.
Huckabee is totally unbelievable on illegal immigration, the most important issue our country faces. If we don't elect someone this time who will secure the border and not give a path to citizenship to any of those here, we can kiss our country goodbye. The numbers of the "invaders" (which is what they really are) will be so great, we will have lost control.

I simply can't believe Republicans want this man. First of all, he is a Baptist minister. And one who consistently and inappropriately brings God into politics. I am a Catholic, but just the thought of a priest being in the White House makes me quake in my boots. No priests, ministers, rabbis, imams, etc. for President. Are these people who have polled for Huckabee crazy? And then Romney is criticized for just being a Mormon?

Please, folks, use your heads. Huckabee is not the answer.




You haven't heard Spectator?
Spectator writes:
I simply can't believe Republicans want this man. First of all, he is a Baptist minister. And one who consistently and inappropriately brings God into politics.



Um...Spectator. The GOP has been taken over by the ones who would love nothing less than to see a Baptist Minister as president. If they could get a Pentacostal Minister, even better!

These people are religion zombies. That's all they fill their minds with. That's all they think and care about. They are the mindless sheep like followers of the extreme Jesus Cults. Why do you think the South votes overwhelmingly GOP? It's not because they're wealthy. The extreme Jesus Cults have alot of members here.

They dream of a Christian theocracy in the United States. They believe in whacky political theories that the U.S. is essentially supposed to be a Christian theocracy! I'm from the deep South. I know these people. They are unfortunately the majority down here.

They would love nothing more than a Southern Baptist Minister being in charge of this country, as quite honestly, that's really the only type they feel qualifies as a "real" American.

As for being Catholic. Do you know what kinds of things Southern Evangelicals say about Catholics when the cameras aren't around?

Just take a trip to Tennessee, even Nashville. Pretend you are a protestant and go up to any group of strangers and say something whacky and hateful about Catholics. I guarantee you that you will be immediately joined in your Catholic bashing. Your'e sure to hear lovely things like "Catholicism is one step away from Satanism" etc.

In private, Catholics are no better than Gays, Jews, Muslims, Feminists, etc. in the eyes of Evangelicals.

I just thought you should know this.

Carter Republican
Huck is Jimmy Carter in Republican drag.


Mitt’s electable


The secularists would decimate a Huckabee GOP candidate (the "Christian Leader") in the general election. Mitt Romney has the right qualifications (the only one with non-governmental (Bain, Olympics) leadership experience, a deep-seated faith, a vision for this country's future, and an exemplary personal and family life.

He has the organizational skills to run a campaign in the general election and run the country. Huck, Hillary or Obama have never even run a lemonade stand. Mitt would appeal to the Independents and some Democrats for his unique qualifications to lead our country.

With Huckabee, hold onto your wallets!
GOP Iowa caucus is heavily represented by evangelical Christians, which obviously means Huckabee will do well there.

But I don't see Huckabee doing well in New Hampshire or Florida.

And I don't see him playing well in the northeast or California.

For an evangelical, he has a leftist vision on using government to "solve" social problems. As governor of Arkansas, he increased the size of government radically during his term; state government spending grew at 3 times the rate of inflation.

The media has a "love affair" with him now, and does not highlight much of his record, except for his pardoning of the convicted rapist who then went out and committed more rapes and murder.

I don't like his leftist social gospel, which was perfected illustrated by his pardon of the rapist.

Romney or Giuliani have more of a chance to beat Hillary or Obama than Huckabee, but at some point I think Giuliani will self destruct.

My favorite is Ron Paul, and, oddly enough, then either Romney or McCain...but the infestation of neocons within the GOP will prevent a Ron Paul GOP nominee, and I think McCain is just too identified with "yesterday's" politics.

So that leaves Romney.

What are we getting with Huckabee?
I have no problem with someone who has a family that demonstrates family values and believes in God.

I wonder, however, about Huckabee's knowledge of the world, and his ability to run the US. Bush Jr. and Carter are the two primary examples of those who stressed their faith.

Bush's popularity has been mired in the low 30's for several years, and Carter is Carter.

Is this what we're getting with Huckabee? And will Huckabee have the ability in the general to over-come this perception?

Evangelicals better be careful what they ask for - they just might get it.

One more repeat of Carter and Bush Jr. and they may alienate a sufficiently large group of voters that it could be decades before a similar nominee could make it back to the oval office.

No one
likes Huckabee..why?..because he's honest, has integrity, courage, stands by his principles, can work through a sentence without three or four "ah", pauses, stutters, stammers, has over ten years experience as a governor...........

Is he perfect? Probably not......most of the perfection is associated with others on the side lines.

He reflects a refreshing air in a sloppy, incompetent, sound bite, gotcha political environment

A national primary
As many writers have already said, Pat Buchanan says, "If Romney loses Iowa, however, he has to win New Hampshire or he is done. But if Huckabee wins Iowa, he need not win New Hampshire for he has already moved into the lead in South Carolina."

The United States absolutely needs to fix this archaic and ridiculously imbalanced method of nominating candidates and electing presidents.

In 2007, I marvel about how an intelligent nation can allow a methodology which would allow states like New Hampshire, Iowa and South Carolina to be and remain the pivot points in a national election. These states are no more representative of the other 47 than I am of Hillary's campaign staff. This is a travesty that screams out for repair.

Personally, I think Huckabee is the GOP's best shot at losing the national election to Obama or Hillary. I think he is completely unelectable and I think the Democrats will bury him. But it wouldn't much matter because, except for abortion and gun control, the guy is largely a liberal anyway, in my opinion. I don't so much begrudge him the chance to run or even win; what dismantles me completely is that no one in this country even whispers about fixing an election process so that all candidates -- and especially all voters -- are equal. In the current system, they are absolutely NOT.

Analysis
Pat's analysis is true and logical. I won't even try to add to it.

As for Mike Huckabee, who has surprised America not just with his rise in the polls but in how his rise has skyrocketed even after his many liberal views have been exposed, he suddenly is the man to beat and Mitt Romney is struggling to survive. So why should conservatives be skeptical of Huckabee? It is because he is an enemy on immigration. It was Huckabee, with the Tyson's chicken CEO in tow, who attended a Hispanic LULAC(sort of a Hispanic KKK or NAACP organization) conference and laughingly said that he looked forward to the day when white men were a minority and marginalized in the United States. I am a white man, my many sons will be white men some day, white men built this country into a great nation, and Mike Huckabee is my enemy. Mike Huckabee has declared war on white men and he needs to be politically destroyed. Rather it be Hillary Clinton in the White House, a woman who pretty honestly supports demographic revolution in this country, than Mike Huckabee, who pretends he is one of us.

Utah as a swing state
I can't for the life of me figure out why Duncan Hunter has never caught much attention.

But since we have to talk about lesser candidates, I want to offer this prediction: if Huckabee gets the nomination, it will be because of the anti-Mormon sentiment of the evangelicals, and if that occurs, little Utah with its few electoral votes that have gone wholeheartedly for every Republican candidate since Barry Goldwater, will become a swing state. I think many Mormons will abstain from supporting a candidate whose nomination was based upon anti-Mormon sentiment. Maybe the Constitution Party will be their alternative.

Laugh of the Day from Arby
Arby makes a great post. One day or even a few days for Primary elections. Why do we let, such small Electoral Collage states such as Iowa and NH decide so much of importance. I vote in PA elections (absentee ballot) and by the time my state votes it is pretty much decided. If the party wants to spread out the vote to give the field a chance to narrow, go to a 3 or 4 day system with the numbers evenly divided and the states in play evenly matched.

I just loved the line that Arby used which is “These states are no more representative of the other 47 than I am of Hillary's campaign staff.” That really made me laugh so thank you I needed that.

I also agree with so many about Gov Huckabee. He has great moral values true but so does Gov Romney. Gov Huckabee has an established record of Big tax and big spending so I can’t really support him..

Other then electing a Theocrat why are so many supporting him?

for jerabaub
Huckabee could sweep the South, starting with South Carolina.

If Huckabee does well in the South, he could win enough delegates to keep either Rudy or Romney from getting a majority of delegates before the convention. GOP convention rules give extra weight to states that voted for the GOP in the last presidential election, and the South sure did. So whoever sweeps the South can punch above his weight.

In which case the GOP convention will start without an obvious nominee. It could go for multiple ballots, horsetrading, a real mess.

What did Romney really say?
A quick correction to what Mitt Romney really said in his speech about who he and the Morman Church believes Jesus Christ is. It has been reported by all outlets and even in the transcripts I have seen that he said "Jesus Christ is THE Son of God and the Savior of mankind."

If you closely watch and listen to the actual replay of the speech what he really said was "Jesus Christ is A Son of God and the Savior of mankind." The key word is that He is not just A Son of God but that he is THE Son of God. That Jesus is just a Son is what the Morman church believes and this is exactly what he said. Everyone seems to think he said one thing but he actually said another.

Of course we know from John 3:16 that "For God so loved the world, that he gave his ONLY begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." This is the very reason that those on the fundimental and evangelical side of Christianity believe the Morman faith is not Christian and so many are straining to vote for Mitt Romney. To tell Christians that they should discount this and go ahead and vote for a Morman is no different than asking them to vote for an aithiest or a muslam.

This country has never elected an person who has disavowed Christianity and I predict they will not do it this time. We are close to a time when that will occure but we are not there yet. If we are, we have other problems to discuss.

Scary People
As one of those "unthinking evangelicals" I find Huckabee very frightening. I don't want anybody using government power to be "compassionate". We've had enough of that with Bush. Romney and Giuliani, likewise, seem to have only a passing knowledge of the Constitutional constraints on both the President and Congress, or with the principles of Federalism. Thompson and Paul seem to be the only ones with such principles, and they're drifting along.

The less said about the Democrats, the better. Their contempt for the citizens is exceeded only by their contempt for the Constitution.

BigMc
Grasping at straws there aren't you!!!

What he said has been reported correctly. Your attempt at mudding the waters is laughable.

I will never vote for Huckabee
If he wins the nomination - forget it. 4 years of Hillary is better than Huck decimating the GOP. Anyone, even McCain is better than Huck. You can wake up now, Iowans.

I think people are underestimating Romney, though. He is going to do whatever it takes to win in Iowa. He's not going to let Huck walk in and take what he's worked so hard for. And he knows that Huck's record will catch up to him. I mean Huck has about 5-6 absolute dealbreakers.


I agree with Arby
I agree with Arby. And I have for many years. This system we have is without question one of the strangest in the Democratic world. And we keep it. By the time I vote, it is always decided - so I get no vote. Then, the parties claims that we have to support the person nominated, even though we had no say in who was nominated.

BigMc is lying
Why?

BigMc is either a bigot or a fool
BigMc, why don't you go read his speech here:
http://www.mittromney.com/News/Speeches/Faith_In_America
or listen to it again.

You are just spouting Anti-Mormon propaganda.

did you even read the speech or are you afraid the Mormon candidate's evil words will possess you!

BigMc - you are out to lunch
First of all, your comment has no relevance to the political process.

Secondly, I am 46, and have been a member of the LDS church all my life, or technically since age 8 when I was baptized.

I swear on the Bible, the Book of Mormon too, and on my soul that I have never once heard any member of the LDS church use the phrase "Jesus Christ is *a* son of God". Mitt Romney did not say it either.

PC writes: BigMc is lying, "Why?"
Because if you read or listen to the speech Romney say's "THE" not "A". His whole post was a waste of effort. Maybe he should spend that anger on helping his neighbor and be a Christian instead of bearing false witness...

PC writes: "BigMc is lying", "Why?"
Because if you read or listen to the speech Romney say's "THE" not "A". BigMc's whole post was a waste of effort. Maybe he should spend that anger on helping his neighbor and be a Christian instead of bearing false witness...

Not only Utah
I am a conservative who lives in Utah. If Hucksterbee is the nominee I will not vote for him. This is not only because he is a religious bigot but becuase he is a fiscal liberal. There won't be any difference between a Hillary administration and a Hucksterbee administration on fiscal issues. Hillary is more of a hawk than she leads the electorate to believe. Frankly, a Hucksterbee administration would devastate our economic strength to such a degree that it may not recover. Can you imagine higher taxes on top of our growing deficits?

I am aware of a group who will start a media campaign not only in Utah but in Idaho, Arizona and Nevada. Each of these states have a significant Mormon population that votes Republican overwhelmingly. The vast majority of them have no problem electing an evangelical. After all, Mormons have been a part of the social conservative coalition for years. However, Mormons will have a problem electing an evangelical who is openly anti-mormon and has run an anti-mormon campaign. I knew that there was anti-mormon bigotry. I work in the South often and can see it when I am there. I had no idea that it was as bad as it is.

The funny thing is that the most virulent anti-mormons are often the most ignorant of what Mormons believe. Is this a function of ignorant preachers or of preachers who willfully lie in order to demonize Mormons? I used to think it was the former. I now believe it is the latter. Quite frankly it is sad. As a Mormon I am very respectful of the beliefs of creedal Christians. I whole heartedly disagree with their doctrine but I certainly don't hate them because of it.

Mormons are small in number but are significant voting blocks in the above states. They also vote in much higher numbers than non-mormons in the west. Evangelicals may want to think about the long-term consequences of shattering the current social conservative coalition. Once I'm gone I won't be coming back.

Mike
I agree that Mikes record on Immigration is soft to say the least. I like him on the social issues and think he would handle Iraq with get care and professionalism. I think Mike would listen to his constituents regarding Immigration and Border Security. Im not sure on his Fiscal ability. He favored Tax increases and Bigger Gov't in Arkansas. I still am leaning Toward Thompson but Mike is growing on me.

Huckabee
First of all, I am a Christian. But for a candidate to scream it from the housetops all the time, "look at me, I'm a Christian", is simply awful. He is stating that he will run the government on his principles. According to HIS faith, which may or not be the correct way.

He ran Arkansas terrible. He did want to give scholarships to illegal aliens, which HIS faith led him to do. He caused a rapist murderer to be paroled, only to murder and rape again, according to HIS faith.He raised taxes on everything, even taxed beds in retirement homes because of HIS faith.

He lies and squirms out of all these facts which HIS faith is making him do, because he wants to be president more than anything, to "deliver this nation back to Christ" which is HIS faith.

I would never be snookered by this phoney preacher, and I pray that those who are backing him wake up.
Fred Thompson is a Christian, and would make a good president, his ideas are right on, full of knowledge, full of wisdom, and full of patriotism.

THE MEDIA IS KEY

.....The media wants to put a Democrat in the White House so they will use the power of the press to try to select a Republian opponent for Hillary that will be the easiest to beat ...right now they are pumping up Huckabee to be that opponent ...

.....Right now the GOP is fractured and divided between too many candidates ...his only helps Giuliani ...

.....If you take the Florida poll where Rudy has 32% of the vote and add together all the other candidates you get 58% ...if you subtract Huckabee's 18% you still have 40% ...

.....To keep Giuliani from winning Florida at least two candidates have to drop out and most of their votes have to go to Romney/Huck ...the two most likely to be out by Florida are McCain and Thompson if McCain does poorly in NH and if Thompson does poorly in SC ...

.....Hucabee becomes the spoiler and the perfect candidate for the Democrats if he is still in the race ...assuming that Rudys 32% holds up...if you split McCain and Freds votes equally between Mitt and Huck ...you end up with ...

...Rudy 32%
...Huck 30%
...Mitt 28%

.....This makes Florida a toss up and a big boost for the winner .....COLOSSUS

Huckabee
Has no answers for any issues America faces, just smooth talk and "Christian Leader" running in the background. In the foreground he has nothing to offer, he has shown he doesnt have knowledge to expound on American topics. As the "Christian Leader" running for President of the United States he needs to understand that he needs to read more than the Bible to lead this country. The Lord helps those who help themselves.

IF Jesus was too smart to run for offce why would Huckabee claim that he is Jesus' official candidate?



budbud and theocracy
...the absolute LAST thing I want in the country is a theocracy...and I'm one of those Jesus Cultists you ranted about...As a matter of fact, you'd probably do well not to paint certain folks with such a broad brush, 'cause you display a level of ignorance by doing so...

Burley is right
Huckabee is foolish to run on a divisive platform. Mormons have been a reliable bloc, so why push them out with an inquisition like BigMC is trying to start? ("A" or THE"? What an idiotic thing to say!)

This country is great because we have room for all religions. Mitt is right that the state religions of Europe have destroyed the people's faith. These faith-based tests are unamerican. Evangelicals who are bigots are sowing the wind; they will reap the whirlwind.

DocJ

A.J.
There are great people among the evangelicals. Thanks for being one.

So will you oppose these religious tests such as Huck is slyly playing? Will you protest people being the "candidate of Jesus?"

DocJ
Yup...Jus' 'cause he says he's this or that doesn't mean a whole lot to me...I watched a little of the interview with him on H&C last night and he was evasive on some stuff...That makes me uneasy enough to take a REALLY HARD look at him...

It's bad enough
It's bad enough that Sunday's shootings were the first fatalities of the Culture War.

We don't need a religious war in the Republican primaries. I don't agree with the religious beliefs of Huckabee or Romney or Thompson or McCain. The only major candidate who shares my religious beliefs is Rudy Giuliani, and I disagree with him on the abortion issue. But I will vote for any of them over Hillary.

The Republicans need a candidate who can revive the economy, neutralize any pending threats from Al Qaida, Iran, China, and Hugo Chavez, finish the job in Iraq, and heal the poisonous divisions that the anti-war left has inflamed on this country. If the Queen of the Left (Hillary) wins, we will end up losing a winning effort in Iraq, the country will be more divided than ever, and assuming the country isn't split apart by civil war or a catastrophic terrorist attack, taxes will be much higher.

Huck as Bin Laden
It is one thing to run on values that have common ground in religion, tradition and natural law. It is another thing entirely to run on the idea that your religion should become the defacto State Religion.

This country will not elect a Pastor in Chief.

If you read Huck's own words He believes that Church (his Church) should run and be the State. State is an extension of his Religion.

Huckabee has stated, "Politics are totally directed by worldview. That's why when people say, 'We ought to separate politics from religion,' I say to separate the two is absolutely impossible".[Huckabee] Huckabee believes in Biblical inerrancy.[Parks]

That makes Huckabee identical to the Taliban and Bin Laden in World View. Their narrow interpretation of Religion should become the Government and force everyone else to comply. That is what we are fighting against in Iraq and Afghanistan. How is Huck's position any different than the Leaders of Iran, the Taliban or Bin Laden?

Parks, Scott. "Huckabee's not preaching to choir;Arkansas governor leads largely Democratic state", Dallas Morning News, 1997-03-09.

Huckabee, Mike (1997). Character Is The Issue. Nashville: Broadman & Holman, 98.

BG
There may not be much of a difference, depending on his theological bent...All who profess Jesus Christ are not the same. There are some (Dominion/Reconstructionists) that DO want to establish God's kingdom on earth, and institute Mosaic Law as the law of the land. I believe that, someday, God's kingdom will be established on earth, but it will be by Jesus Himself, and NO ONE ELSE...

BREAKING NEWS

.....My operatives in the Field have informed me that the Liberal Media has made it's choice ...they have selected Huckabee to be the Republican nominee ...

.....A week before the NH primary the DNC will beging bussing in "Independent" voters to vote for the Huckster .....COLOSSUS

baseballdoc
...To ensure there's a Republican candidate that's THOROUGLY "demonizable" to ensure a democrat victory...

Honestly
Pat your backing Rudy. Are you really trustworthy now? Yes yes you hate muslims we all know that, and Chavez, and Homos and everything. Hang it up already. Go read your Bible, your a pastor not a politician. Or are you?

and
baseball doc whats with the COLOSSUS at the end? It looks like you've got quite the ego.

A vote for Huckabee=a vote for Guilliani
And as I have realized, Huckabee cannot go the distance in the rest of the secular states to win the Presidency. Romney can. Not only can he win the southern conservative states, but he can move into the rest of the country with success also. Guilliani is just over the top liberal---we need to have a true conservative as our Republican candidate. Come on people, wake up and smell the roses! I did! Once a Huckabee supporter (with lots of prodding from my pastor), but now a realist and someone who wants a social conservative in office! Mitt Romney can do it if we get behind him now!

BigMc writes:
"That Jesus is just a Son is what the Morman church believes and this is exactly what he said."

Ah, the use of partial truths to confuse. Happens all the time. Mr. Big, this his what Mormons believe:

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

John 3:16

Mormons do not believe that Jesus Christ is "just a son of God". That, sir, is a lie. We believe that under the direction of the Father He created this earth, that he volunteered to take upon Himself all the sins of the world suffering the pain for everyone so they wouldn't have to suffer it themselves. That is what Gethseme was about. Those who turn their hearts to Him and genuinely repent can take part in His great Atonement. Those who reject him cannot. No sir, we most certainly DO NOT believe that He is "just a son of God". We believe that the first principle of the Gospel is faith in the LORD Jesus Chirst.

The problem with the anti-Mormon crowd is that they take a particular belief of the LDS Church and tell only part of the story. If they told the whole story it might convince others to join the LDS Church, that's why they tell only part of the story. Partial truths, Mr. Big, are nothing more than lies, as they tend to distort the whole truth.

Yes, it's true that we also believe that the rest of us are sons and daughters of God. That's why we call Him Father.
But comparing one of us to Jesus Christ is like comparing something the size of a BB to the universe. Now do you understand?

DON'T VOTE FOR TAX HIKE MIKE!!!!!!!!!!!!
I can't believe people are even considering this big government, tax and spend CINO. He never met a felon, illegal immigrant, or tax he didn't love! Forget this guy and vote against him.

Utah a swing state
Someone, I don't have time to go back and research who, mentioned that Utah Mormons might abstain from voting for a Republican if Huckabee wins the nomination. Thus Utah's electoral votes would probably go to a Democrat. That might not be all that frightening. But if you consider that the States of Idaho Wyoming, Arizona with its 10 electoral votes, and even Nevada, are all states in which Mormons form a sizeable minority. The election could easily be lost.
My personal experience is that of all Protestant ministers, Baptist ministers have been the most vicious about attacking Mormons and their beliefs. I would be tempted not to vote for Huckabee because of that. However, ANY Republican would be better than ANY Democrat I can think of. I would even vote for Huckabee over Harry Reid if he was the Democrat nominee.
I am concerned about some of Huckabee's liberal ideas, but he's still better than any of the Dems. I hope that my fellow Mormons feel the same way and the states mentioned will all go to the Republicans in 2008.

Mitt Knives Huckabee!

MIKEB

.....COLOSSUS is my computer ...I do not actually post on this site ...COLOSSUS posts in my name .....bbdoc

baseballdoc
so you named your computer COLOSSUS?

addenum
And you post the name in the signature of every post (but that last one).??

This is
obvious a Buchanan brainwashed group.....unwilling to think, makes unsubstantiated statements, afraid of accuracy, and scared to death we might get a President that speaks, acts, and demonstrates President qualities.........

Whoopee......rant on

The Huckster

Bah, hum bug. The most intelligent and least hurtful thing we can say about him.

Better than Shrillary, the she wolf, maybe but doubtful.

To paraphrase: Oh, he could make some people happy some of the time, but most of the people unhappy most of the time. Want to lose an election, he's your choice.


MIKEB

.....Obviously we are on different levels and therefore unable to communicate ...have a nice life .....COLOSSUS

for baseballdoc
baseballdoc writes: "My operatives in the Field have informed me that the Liberal Media has made it's choice ...they have selected Huckabee to be the Republican nominee"

Who cares?
The Christian evangelical conservatives who are flocking to Huckabee don't take direction from the liberal media. They regard the liberal, mostly secular, media as their enemy.

The "liberal media" are so distrusted by the conservatives who make up most of the GOP that what the liberal media says and prints will not affect the GOP voters who will vote in the caucuses and primaries. Do you understand this?

Romney is pro-abortion, pro gay marriage
Pat, why are you too shilling for Romney. You know his record. You advised him to ignore the unconstitutional Goodridge opinion. You are a sell out Pat.

1. Romney claims to be "pro-life" but established abortion as a "healthcare benefit" in his own government run healthcare plan (after his purported "pro-life conversion.") Proof Source http://www.mass.gov/Qhic/docs/cc_benefits1220_pt234.pdf Of noted he also placed a Planned Parenthood representative on the healtcare board.

2. Romney claims to oppose "gay marriage" and "did everything he could to oppose it as governor." Yet, his record shows that he was advised to ignore the Goodridge opinion by various constitutional lawyers (including Hugh Hewitt- proof source http://massresistance.blogspot.com/2007/12/hugh-hewitt-tol d-romney-to-defy-mass.html) and choose not to even though the court had no constitutional jurisdictional authority to even hear the case in the first place. When the legislature never amended or suspended the current marriage statute (Ch. 207) to accommodate "gay marriage" that should have been the end of it. But Romney had privately promised the Log Cabin GOPs not to oppose gay marriage if elected governor in 2002( proof source http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/08/us/politics/08romney.htm l?_r=3&hp=&oref=slogin&pagewanted=print&oref=slogin ) and so he chose to ignore the constitution he swore to uphold to fulfill the campaign promise to the Log Cabin GOPs and ordered his own Dept of Health to illegally change the marriage certificates from "husband" and "wife" to "partner A" and "partner B" and ordered Justices of the Peace and Town Clerks to perform same sex marriage ceremonies or resign.


The bottom line on Romney
The bottom line is that Mitt Romney is the most liberal candidate in the race from either party. He accomplished what neither Hillary nor any other Democrat has been able to. Mitt gave Massachusetts a govt run healthcare plan that included abortion as a healthcare benefit. And Mitt gave Massachusetts gay marriage . That is the real story that the media including about 99% of the so-called "conservative media" (Hewitt, Bennett, Hannity, Sekulow, Medved, etc...) have conveniently ignored and suppressed. The real story that the media has buried is that Romney violated his sworn oath to protect and defend the oldest functioning constitution in the world (authored by John Adams) and knowingly violated it for his own political gain. And the real question that Romney and the media talkers who daily shill for him should have to answer is: Why should Americans trust that Romney would protect and defend the US Constitution when he flagrantly violated his own as governor?

Huckabee is not the liberal
among the republican candidates and I wish to God that those of you who are buying the claptrap put out by Mitt, Sean and the rest of the people who have sold their souls to wall street and the elites would get through your heads. If you want to talk about any of the issues please don't listen to talk show hosts who only read part of MH's comments or who lie about what he says about immigration. Huckabee is the only candidate among the republicans who is actually likeable and would win over dems and independents.

Huck is Idiosycratic
A lefty site has an account of Huckabee imposing his religion on the citizens of AR in a way that cost some victims their insurance coverage.

The AR house and Senate passed a relief bill for storm victims. Huck refused to sign it as it contained the words "Acts of God" since that did not agree with Huck's concept of God, (that God would cause anything bad to happen), he refused to sign it. The House and Senate had to pass a new bill that contained the words "natural disaster" but in the mean time insurance companies utilized that time to refuse to renew coverage for many victims. Is this an example of Huck's compassion?

http://tpmelectioncentral.com/

The same Huck who refused to use the words "Act of God" referred to his own brand of religion as "Jesus Juice". Huck is idiosyncratic.

Huck smears Mormons
That did not take long. Huck is repeating anti Mormon distortions.

http://www.newsmax.com/insidecover/Huckabee_Mormons_times/2 007/12/11/56131.html

Give Huckabee a break...
Without the religious conservative vote any Republican is dead in the water. Mike Huckabee is the only candidate that has been able to fully inspire this base of the party. This fact is undeniable.

So why not give him a break and get behind him? In my opinion, Giuliani will divide the party, Romney's Mormonism makes him unelectable (the proof is in the pudding), Thompson is uninspiring-boring and McCain is a rebel with too many enemies in the party. So who's left but Huckabee?

It's possible that the likability of Huckabee set against the coldness of Hilary will make the whole discussion unnecessary. Everyone likes the Huck personally, even the media. They hate what he stands for and of course will attack him like they have been doing these past couple of weeks. However, he has stood up to them and kept his cool and the polls have demonstrated it.

In my opinion, the country needs someone who can communicate with the American people and inspire us to accomplish something significant. No Republican can do that except Huckabee and Giuliani. And since Giuliani is so divisive on the social issues--Huckabee is our best bet. Let's give him a break and support the guy.



Huckabee and Mormons
I want the President to be foremost concerned about maintaining diplomatic relations with God. I believe this can be done without the establishment of a state religion. Though I’m LDS, I favored Huckabee over Romney. I didn’t support Mitt just because he’s LDS. Then I heard about Huckabee and taxes, and illegal immigration. Then I caught part of the you tube debate, and heard Mitt admit he was wrong before about abortion. No excuses. Just an admission of error. I was impressed. Then I read his speech on faith.

I heard Huckabee’s soft on anti-Mormon bigotry, even participates. I heard he attended a baptist convention in Salt Lake City recently. I lived there when they started having those. They came in claiming that they were going to bring Christ to us Mormons. Like we didn't already know Him. They had full page ads in newspapers and billboards to match, geared to people who had never heard of Jesus, like we were as far from Christian as people who worshiping rats. They haven't changed much. At the last convention, one of the books they distributed to the press was an anti-Mormon book.

This is what I think Huckabee actually believes in: invalidation of a Christian religion because its doctrines are considered unorthodox by the mainstream, though its adherents profess belief in Christ as the Son of God. If nothing else, I would hope that man would at least have the sense to try not to pointlessly divide people on the basis of religion when they are political kindreds.

My opinion of Romney is continually improving and my opinion of Huckabee is continually sinking. I could have remained a Huckabee supporter, if only he had not pulled some of the stunts he has, such as branding himself implicitly as THE Christian Leader. In this race, he is A Christian Leader, not THE Christian Leader. I don't need that kind of attitude.

I'm rooting for Romney now. I know he's not perfect, but he's the best choice I see out there.
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