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Friday, November 09, 2007
Pat Buchanan :: Townhall.com Columnist
Is a Vote for Rudy a Vote for War?
by Pat Buchanan
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Will the Dems' health care Christmas Present to America be an improvement or detriment to our health care system?


Rudy Giuliani has made a "promise" not to allow Iran to acquire a nuclear capability, even if it requires U.S. military action. Though the U.S. Army is scrimping to meet recruitment goals, Rudy has pledged to add at least 10 new combat brigades.

Speaking to an Atlantic Bridge conference in London, Rudy called for NATO expansion to include Japan, India, Australia, Singapore and Israel. Has Rudy thought this through?

Why would Japan and Australia, each of which already has a U.S. commitment to come to its defense, commit to go to war with a nuclear-armed Russia if it invaded Estonia? For joining NATO would require them to treat an attack on Estonia, or any other NATO nation in Europe, as an attack upon themselves.

Why should the United States commit to war for India, which has territorial conflicts and has fought wars with China and Pakistan? What vital interest is it of ours who holds Kashmir? As for Israel, are American boys now to fight Hezbollah and Hamas?

While FDR talked to Stalin, Ike and JFK to Khrushchev, and Nixon to Mao, Rudy would not talk to any "enemies bent on our destruction or those who cannot deliver on their agreements." Would he be even-handed in the Israeli-Palestinian dispute? Answers Rudy, "America shouldn't be even-handed in dealing with ... an elected democracy ... and a group of terrorists."

If Rudy rivals McCain as the hawk's hawk in the Republican race, the foreign policy advisers he has signed up make the Vulcans of Bush look like Howard Zinn and Ramsey Clark. Arnaud de Borchgrave titled his column about them "Dogs of War."

Team leader is Charles Hill, a co-signer of the Sept. 20, 2001, neocon ultimatum to Bush, nine days after 9-11, warning the president if he did not attack Iraq, his failure to do so "will constitute an early and perhaps decisive surrender to the war on international terrorism."

Yet Iraq had nothing to do with 9-11.

A second member of Rudy's team is Martin Kramer, an Israeli-American who, according to Ken Silverstein of Harper's, "spent 25 years at Tel Aviv University and whose Middle East policy can best be summarized as, 'What's Best for Israel?'" Silverstein calls Rudy's eight-man advisory group "AIPAC's Dream Team" -- AIPAC being the Israeli lobby, two of whose leaders go on trial in January for espionage against the United States

According to The New York Times, another key Rudy adviser is Daniel Pipes, "who has called for profiling Muslims at airports and scrutinizing American Muslims in law enforcement, the military and the diplomatic corps." Another is AEI's Michael Rubin, "who has written in favor of revoking the United States' ban on assassinations."

Best known of Rudy's advisers is Norman Podhoretz, who wrote in June, "The Case for Bombing Iran" in Commentary, thinks we are in "World War IV" and writes that "as an American and as a Jew, I pray with all my heart" Bush will bomb Iran. Podhoretz sees us at Munich in 1938 and Mahmoud Ahmadinejad as Hitler.

"Like Hitler," writes Podhoretz, Ahmadinejad "is a revolutionary whose objective is to overturn the going international order and to replace it in the fullness of time with a new order dominated by Iran and ruled by the religio-political culture of Islamofascism."

Time to return to Planet Earth. Ahmadinejad is not only jeered at Columbia but at colleges in Tehran. He is openly attacked by rivals. He does not control the Iranian Revolutionary Guard. He does not decide on war or peace. He runs a regime with 2 percent of U.S. gross domestic product, no nukes and no navy or air force to rival ours. He is a Shia in a Sunni world. How is this 5 foot, 4 inch Persian going to strong-arm the United States, Russia and China, not to mention an Israel with 300 nukes, into his "new order"?

After the axis-of-evil speech threatening war on Iraq, Iran and North Korea, Podhoretz wrote that Bush had not gone far enough.

The "regimes that richly deserve to be overthrown ... should extend to Syria and Lebanon and Libya, as well as 'friends' of America like the Saudi royal family and Egypt's Hosni Mubarak, along with the Palestinian Authority." After toppling them all, wrote Podhoretz, as he mocked the "timorous ... incorrigibly cautious Colin Powell," let's find "the stomach to impose a new political culture on the defeated."

Bush found the stomach. Near 4,000 Americans are dead, 27,000 wounded, Walter Reed is full, and Norman is looking for new wars. On a recent National Review cruise, he ranted that Iraq was an "amazing success," "a triumph. It couldn't have gone better." As for Saddam's WMDs, they were secretly "shipped to Syria."

After meeting with his candidate, Podhoretz emerged happy to assure us, "There is very little difference in how he (Rudy) sees the war and I see it." If true, a vote for Rudy is a vote for endless war.

And, as James Madison said, wars are the death of republics.

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About The Author
Pat Buchanan is a founding editor of The American Conservative magazine, and the author of many books including State of Emergency: The Third World Invasion and Conquest of America .
 
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Shells
Well said. I agree with your interpretation of Liberius and sadly, I have found that there are many like him.

They will insist that the holocaust was a jewish fabrication...but if pressed many will admit that another holocaust would not be a bad idea.

Frankly I have more respect for the blatant Nazis who say, "Yea Hitler killed millions of Jews and he should have gotten the job done!"

At least they dont lie to themselves as those like Liberius so often do. Someone once said of Iranian President Ahmadinajad, "He denies the last Holocaust while planning the next one."

Sadly this is the same mentality held by most modern Jew haters.

Podhoretz...
Is nuts. Stark raving mad. Certifiably insane. Thank you for bringing this to my attention, Mr. Buchanan.

What is it with the left???

alopekos teumesios writes: "Questions for Pat Bashers"

They can't seem to distinguish between "disagreeing" and "bashing."

"Does Iran currently pose an existential threat to the United States of America?"

And HOW MANY nuclear reactors do they have, up and running now?

And what ridiculous, leading questions... "What would the war look like - air strikes, ground invasion, regime change, occupation?"



Hard to convince the Muslims...
Unfortunately, we'll never convince the Muslims that the U.S. and Israel are not one in the same. Jewish folks occupy most of the committee chairs and important posts that relate to our Congressional foreign policy and the Middle East. We will soon have a Jewish Attorney General. The head of Homeland Security is Jewish. The only governmental control over the private Federal Reserve System is the appointed Board of Governors...all five of whom are Jewish. I'm certain the Muslims see this a concentration of power. We give Israel billions and billions of our tax dollars, primarily for their military and security...but we give a pittance of aid to the Palestinians. This will always lead the Muslims to believe we are not even-handed in the Israel/Palestinian situation. Our days of conflict with Muslim radicals are far from over.

Questions for Pat Bashers
Does Iran currently pose an existential threat to the United States of America?
Is war with Iran definitely in the cards?
What would the war look like - air strikes, ground invasion, regime change, occupation?
Is war with Syria next?
How should we deal with a radicalized Pakistan?
Do we seize the wealth of these vanquished nations to support our next conquest or expend treasure to rebuild them?
Will Guiliani be an American Caesar who moves us from republic to empire?
Is Pax Americana something that we can achieve without the inevitable issues faced by every empire throughout history?
How far from our founders vision should we evolve to achieve these ends?
Would that be a good thing or a bad thing?

John Konop: "Copy & Paste King"
.

Republican National Committe
It is a serious assault on Free Speech when the RNC and other GOP Factions seek to bar the speech of an official candidate for President in the race for the Republican nomination. Ron Paul is under attack by FOX News and various analysts who actually believe he should be removed from debates and the party itself.

The Republican Party and the RNC are afraid that a real candidate would jeopardize their hijacking of conservative issues. It is clear that a real candidate like Ron Paul would reinstate adherence to the Constitutional intent of government– a far cry from the current direction the party is being led in.

BUT REGARDLESS of whether you love or hate Ron Paul or the Republican Party, one must stand up for and defend the right to Free Speech.

READ MORE

http://controlcongress.com/uncategorized/republican-nationa l-committe




Remember
Today, nearly 24 million (eight percent) of our countrymen are veterans. Of those, 33 percent served in Vietnam, 18 percent in the Gulf War, 14 percent in WWII and 13 percent in Korea. About three percent served in Iraq and Afghanistan and other counter-terrorism theaters. More than 25 percent of those veterans suffer some disability.

Please pause with us at 1100 EST this Sunday to pray for all our veterans.

israel is our misfortune...
Our pro-israeli policies have harmed America. Last I checked, we don't buy any oil from the israelis. In the middle east - we buy oil from their enemies.

This is yet another example of israel as liability, not an ally in the middle east. When it comes to wars in the middle east, notice how we can't really use israeli airstrips or bases for staging as this breaks up the arab coalition (whatever is left) when we fight their slimy brethren.

All these wars in the middle east where American blood and treasure are spilled are clearly to protect israel. The goy of America are just suckered into giving their lives and fortunes to protect this parasitic state that is sucking the life out of our country. aipac is laughing all the way to the bank with American Tax dollars.

It's interesting to note that foreign relations with the arabs wasn't so bad prior to israel's creation. Sure we had a few spats here and there but we weren't occupying their lands and they were focused on killing each other. I can't understand how this was a bad deal for us. Introduce israel into the equation and now these muslims have a common objective and guess how also doesn't benefit in this conflict. You guessed it - US. As israel's only friend, we are going to get punched in this religious fight when we could have just stayed out and focused on making America the beacon of Liberty around the world. We need to step back and let these people fight their own battles. Our intervention into other people's affairs will always result in blowback; hence 9/11.

For all you pro-israel parasites, spare me your response. If you think israel is so important, move there yourself and fight and die for it. Don't let other Americans do this for you. You are all cowards just like cheney, rove, bush and all the neoCONS that avoided the draft. Shame on you. Shame on us for letting our republic be controlled by foreign influences like israel.

Not to worry....
By the time George W. Bush is through destroying the American economy with his 9 trillion dollar debt, insane foreign wars, $100/barrel oil, and devaluation of the dollar, the next president will have little ability to wage a war on Iran. Frankly, we'll be too broke. The whole American house of cards is built on a foundation of the dollar as the world's reserve currency. By the time the next president takes over, the Euro will have replaced the dollar in that role.

You heard it here first.

And then...
There was None....


Threats -vs- Promise?

Splitting hairs, don't you think????

"al Qaeda and Ahmadinejad (of IRAN fame) have been PROMISING, "Death to America" and "Wipe America off the face of the earth...."


"Ahmadinejad is an elected leader...?"

Right... like Castro and Hugo Chávez? Right! Gottcha!




PALESTINIANS DANCING IN THE STREETS AD N
A letter in the Wall Street Journal from someon actuallly in Jerusalem on 9-11 debunks the lie that Palestinians were dancing in the streets as the towers fell. Actally the dancing footage shown on the Jew Tube was 5 years old and depicted another event

ANOTHER WAR
In the first place Ahmadinejad is an elected leader, albeit the Pres. Of Iran is a figurehed with almost no power. Iran has never threatened the United States unless you consider Israel to be part of the U.S. Moreover, the correct translation should read something to the effect that the "evil Zionist regime" should fall, much like Reagan called for the Berlin Wall to fall.
Using neo-con methods in the Middle East is like using a goline hose to put out a forest fire.By attacking a country with no involvement in 9-11 and no WMDs we have created a breeding ground for radicals. The crazy Zionist inspired adventure in Iran will certainly cause nuclear Pakistan to go radical. As for the Jews, if they want war so much, let's draft them first and see if they still want war so much.

Liberius
asks: "... if one were to criticize lynching of blacks by white people, would such criticism be 'anti-white'?"

A red herring, since that's not the equivalent of your comment on Jews, Liberius. If we are to put the "criticism" in the terms you used, we would say something like:

"There are darn good reasons why whites should be expelled from the nations or principalities they inhabit."

This is an anti-white statement no matter who makes it -- Louis Farrakhan, you, or me.

Your original statement about Jews being expelled from nations implies justification for an evil act of force that is intolerable against ANY group, from Ukraine to Turkey to Cambodia to Rwanda.

Your insistence that this isn't anti-Semitism is absurd. Your own statement shows you are philosophically prepared to justify state action against Jews merely because they are Jews. That implication of actionability is the very essence of anti-Semitism.

Wrong question??????????????
"Is a Vote for Rudy a Vote for War?" is such a set up question....

Not much different from, "Have you stopped beating your wife yet?"

I am no way a "Rudy" fan. Rudy is a domestic liberal "Hellary." How about a history of "Sanctuary NY City" and pro-abortion just for starters.

But I believe that we can at least count on Rudy to do whatever it takes to protect us from yet another PROMISED attack from the radical Islamics.

Maybe the question SHOULD be, "Is a Vote for Rudy a Vote for Protecting us from the radical Islamics, even if it means War?"



BC3
Not sure if you're addressing a discussing Bob and I were having in a passive way, but I will interject.

Who is playing the race card? When you play cards, including a race card, your hope is to gain or win something.

By Bob and I observing Liberius for what he is, how is that playing a race card?

If you had read any of Liberius's posts over a week ago, you would understand that even if Israel never existed, that still would not take away the contempt he has for Jews as a whole. I am not giving broad swooping generalizations here, I am being specific on one person's character I have had time to observe longer than you.

So, who's playing a card? Who's winning what? Use your terminolgy properly.

Playing the "Race Card"
Those who accuse opponents of neocons as being anti-Jewish are simply playing the "race card."

There are plenty of neocons bozos who are not Jewish (like Fred Barnes, the biggest bozo of all). One thing about neocons though: most are former liberals and still are in most areas other than military intervention.

Bob
I totally caught it, but he doesn't.

Awhile back, he and I were having the same type of discussion, and even then he still didn't see what his own words screamed loud and clear. He hates Jews. He has a very misguided intellect about Jews.

Think what you will about Israel, that doesn't make a person an anti-semite. However, with Liberius's words and his perception of Jews, it only goes to show that he really does hate them and is a classic textbook case of an anti-semite.

He believes the Jews purposefully go from country to country to usurp every resource, every dollar, in order to control the region. He describes them like a horde of locusts attacking crops.

He can't admit he is an anti-semite, and he knows very well he is. I've told him he's entitled to feel about any people anyway he wishes---I don't believe in thought crimes and I believe people can dislike whom they choose. I wasn't trying to make him like me, but to basically face facts that he really is an anti-semite and feel comfortable with it.

I mean, why should he care that me, a Jew, thinks of him? He may as well be honest.

Quick current history lesson!
9/11...Attack on US soil,
WTC and the Pentagon, 3000+ people killed.

Remember that???

9/20... Libs were asking, "What did Bush know and when did he know it?"


Since then...al Qaeda and Ahmadinejad (of Iran fame) have been PROMISING, "Death to America" and "Wipe America off the face of the earth...."

And now you have, for your reading pleasure, "Schmoozing with Terrorists" by Aaron Klein, a first hand account of exactly what al Qaeda has in store for us......

** "Madonna and Britney Spears stoned to death? What life in the U.S. would be like if the terrorists win.

** "Terror leaders dish on loudmouth, anti-war celebrities such as Rosie O'Donnell, Sean Penn, Susan Sarandon, Jane Fonda and Richard Gere and even sound off about American talk radio hosts such as Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity.

** "Jihadists list their U.S. election favorites, mouth off about politicians and even threaten to kill one 2008 presidential candidate.

** "Klein and friends confront well-armed senior terrorists about whether suicide bombers really get 72 virgins after their deadly operation.

** "Terror groups funded, trained and armed by the U.S.? American tax dollars donated to schools that double as terror training zones and jihadist recruitment grounds? A shocking expose on how your tax dollars fund terrorism!

** "Bibles used as toilet paper, synagogues as rocket launching zones? Meet the leaders of the most notorious holy site desecrations in history.

** "The under-reported story of Christian persecution in the Middle East as told by the antagonists and victims."





The liberals HAVE to be dumber than dirt!





So, a question
Supposedly, everyone is afriad of Rudy....save Pat Robertson (wink,wink)
If Rudy is a quack, and a war monger and a cross-dresser...and Hillary is the favorite…by a long shot(even head to head with Rudy)
then, what’s the problem????
What is Buchanan worried about...???
Why are "Rudy worry warts" in a panic?
...besides the democrats' incredible ability to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory...

Shells
Frankly the mentality of those like Liberius is saddening. He tells me that, "most Jews are decent people", then immediately goes on to say that, "There are darn good reasons why Jews have been expelled from about 100 nations or principalities over the last several hundred years."

Did you catch the blatant contradictory nature of those two statements? Because Liberius missed it, even while he was typing it.

Rudy


Buchannen has lost all credibility as a commentator. This blowhard decries the Iraq war but wholeheartedly supported the Vietnam war. There was absolutely no threat from the Viet Cong to the U.S. The result of that war? 50,000 dead. Pat Buchannen is a hyporcrite.

Giuliani can beat Hillary
and the rest of the field, wonderful as they are, will make good veeps but will not get elected pres.

Hillary would be even more of a horror as she hates the military and has a communist left. Worse, like John Kennedy, who got us smeared in the Bay of Pigs and trapped in Vietnam, Hillary would need a military adventure to prove her "creds."

Giuliani was a vervent prosecutor, but he wasn't dangerous or rabid. He would make an excellent commander-in-chief, and Pat should get set to elect him.


THE BAD SIDE OF REAGANS LEGACY

.....Reagan made two major mistakes during his Presidency ...he nominated Sandra Day O'Connor to SCOTUS ...and he didn't dump Limousine Liberal Bush Sr. during his second term ...Reagan turned the virtue of loyalty into a vice ...

.....By setting up Bush SR. as his heir apparent Reagan broke the string of eight years of a Conservative in the White House and we haven't had a true Conservative back there since ...

.....This can be fixed in '08 if the Republicans can put a true Conservative up against Komrade Hillary ...

.....The Democrats will give us higher taxes ...
.....Amnesty and open borders ...
.....A stripped down and weak Military ...
.....And a Socialist Government ...

.....The Taliban, Al Qaeda and Iran might be our enemy outside the gates ...but we have a much more dangerous enemy inside that we need to defeat ...Democrat/Statists ...

....."But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. ...He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist ..." ...Marcus Tullius Cicero ...

.....COLOSSUS

Time
Iran may want nuclear weapons - but does not yet have them. If she gets them, she will then need to find a way to deliver them. The jets of 9/11 were occupied by men armed principally with knives and box cutters - and the jets became the bomb. Those living in fear of getting attacked by Iran might do well to remember that 1) delivery systems can take longer to develop and build than the weapon itself; and 2) You cannot simply cart a warhead in your baggage hidden under the seat of your passenger jet and then sneak it off the plane and into or onto something else.

The lesson is that there is no imminent danger from Iran. We can finish the job in Iraq - and then turn around and deal with Iran. Rather than panic - we need to keep our heads and stengthen our reserves. We will not attack today because we do not have the forces available. But they don't need to be available today. And that is the sole reason you see the temperature ratcheting down a notch or two these days. If we can't deal with Iran diplomatically, we will always have the military option.

Liberius
You said: "It's not my fault that a disproportionate % of Jews are involved with left-wing, radical and subversive activity."

I can only agree that most Jews, which includes my entire family, are all card carrying leftists, and their thought processes are radicalized. Meaning: They have been brainwashed by the Left that Christians are the imminent danger. My intelligent family was suckered into the propaganda. They fear if republicans get elected, all Jews will be killed so that a Christian race can take over the US. This is what their Leftist sources have taught them. I cannot change their minds, and I as their conservative right wing daughter, have shamed them and they do not speak to me anymore. They are liberal because they are brainwashed to believe they are SAFE. They are wrong.

However, I will disagree that they are involved in any subversive activities. That, my anti-Israeli Post Pal, is a bunch of hooey. I think your own propaganda (just like my family) affects you and you happen to be grossly mis-informed.

I have said before, I will not go into the history of Israel because I disagree with your version, including the history of Jews, which you still are grossly mis-informed. You remind me of my family and how they go on about Christians. They say they don't hate Christians, and some Christians are ok, but, "They plot and plan and are attempting to rule and take over! They are dangerous and evil!!!"

You sound just like them, which means, you sound hateful and silly.

As far as emailing you, please don't take offense, but as a single female, I don't feel quite comfortable having "discourse" with someone who is very hateful like you towards people like me, and have you know my email address. Let's keep it here.

War
The only reason, other than self defense, to fight a war is to take something the other guy has that you want. There is no other reason. We were quite brutal in taking the Philippines, Samoa and Hawaii, but we got the job done. I’m still unsure why Japan did not become a State or possession. Damn that Harry.

Neither Korea nor Viet Nam had a darn thing we wanted. We were not motivated, had people like Alan Alda’s Hawkeye in service. (They were not all MDs.) We were bested both times and we left with our shirts, nothing more.

Iraq and Iran have oil, unless we really need all that sand. Of course, this war could be all about our adopted child Israel. Does anyone think Israel will ever grow up and keep us out of their arguments? Or, are we simply that stupid.

At any rate Judy is not the answer. Come to think of it, aside from Pat, there is only Ron Paul.

dyerje
Let me ask you a question, if one were to criticize lynching of blacks by white people, would such criticism be "anti-white"? Of course not, and neither is legitimate criticism of behavior by Jews.

dyerje
Again, I never talked of conspiracy. You have no idea what anti-semitism means.

Shells
I have said nothing hateful. There are some troubling aspects of history that others ignore or just don't know about. It's not my fault that a disproportionate % of Jews are involved with left-wing, radical and subversive activity. It's just a fact. As I have stated, most Jews are good people but that doesn't change anything I have said. Most blacks are good people too but the fact is that they are 9 times higher than average involved in criminal activity.

I invite you to email me directly at liberation_central@hotmail.com so we can have a rationale exchange.

Buchanan is the guy
... who at least twice this year has predicted that Bush was about to start THE WAR WITH IRAN. He is simply not temperate or judicious on this issue.

There is good reason to reject proposals for changing the whole purpose of NATO, and expanding it to some worldwide club of Countries That Think America Is OK. More alliances just for the he!! of it will not improve the international landscape -- they never have -- but WOULD have the effect of increasing American obligations.

But Buchanan brings out posters like Liberius, who says: "There are darn good reasons why Jews have been expelled from about 100 nations or principalities over the last several hundred years."

Sorry, Liberius, that is anti-Semitism, and it is repellent. It is possible to be opposed to incipient plans for "world order" WITHOUT seeing conspiracies under every rock, and reverting to the refrain about Jews. I must repudiate such lines of accusation absolutely.

Stupid and Cowardly
I think that Pat Buchanan and the posters who agree with him are being stupid and cowardly in not facing up to the risks of a radical Islamic Iran armed with nuclear weapons. Rudy Guiliani is certainly one candidate who will deal with the problem responsibly. John McCain is another. A ote for either or both is a vote for responsible leadership. Listening to Pat Buchanan is a waste of time.

That dog don't bark.
Some who are incapable of refuting arguments they find troubling attribute anti-semitic motives to those with whom they disagree.

There may be a good number of neocons who are Jews. There are also some who are not Jewish.

To criticize the direction neocons have taken the foreign policy of the U.S., is not ipso- facto anti-semitic.

The same people who are so dogmatic as to label any discussion of black unemployment, out of wedlock births, propensity toward violent crime, as "racist" in origin, are also among the folks who attribute any criticism of the neocons as "anti-Jewish" in origin.

I would hope we are all more sophisticated than to fall for that.

Bob, RE: Liberious and the same ilk
Bob, you are correct. In fact, I actually tried to talk Liberious down from his Hate mode a week or so ago. I impressed him as a "good enough Jew."

However, once he got rolling with other posters, the hate just seethed out. Might I also add he is a 911 Truther and firmly believes in the dancing Jew conspiracy. I gave up after that.

When Pat Buchanon writes, guys like him flock here, as you can see.


Rudy Future
Not only would a Rudy Giuliani presidency result in a longer military presence in Iraq and possible war with Iran, it would lead conservatism further down the road to ruin than even the hapless George W. Bush has led us. Short term, in the 2010 off-year election the Republicans would lose seats massively. Long term, social conservatives will abandon politics, allowing an era of left-wing domination of the country.

Rudy Guiliani or Hillary Clinton = WAR
A vote for Rudy Giuliani or Hillary Clinton is a vote for war. Either one of those two liars, will take this country to war, again.

They are both puppets of the same puppet master, the Pro-Israel crowd, of Israel first,followed closely by the Pro-illegal aliens, and than America's interest, if money and time allows.

everyonesfacts writes:
Moshe Dayan the Peacenik said
If you want to make peace, you don't talk to your friends. You talk to your enemies.

Put it in context. He said this after kicking the snot out of the ragheds in the 6 day war. Too many people are under the illusion that throwing the Jews to the wolves will satisfy the wolves. It didn't happen in WWII and wont happen now. When all of the Jews are gone who do you think the rags will come after next?

JACK SH*TITE

.....I know ...lets drop to the fetal position and suck our thumbs ...lets cry out for mommies teat ...lets grab our ankles and plead for our enemies to be gentle ...

.....You make me want to puke ...go hide in the corner and let the big boys protect your sorry a** ...

....."People sleep peacefully in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." ...George Orwell

.....COLOSSUS

Rik
They were not Egyptians they were mostly from Saudi Arabia and this would have never happended if we did not have American troops stationed in Saudi at the time. Does that "justify" the terrorist attacks of 9-11? Of course not, but if we practiced non-intervention (we have NEVER been an isolationist country) we would not be in this big mess.

Don't you understand? This would have NEVER HAPPENED if we minded our own darn business in the first place. We are not an empire and we need to stop acting like we own the world.

silicondoc
We are TRYING sanctions, as we did before. Trouble is, we're the only ones who actually stick to them, so they may not work.
I'm sorry, I didn't really follow the rest of your post (as you point out I am an idiot), so I couldn't tell what approach you were advocating to resolve the situation with Iran.

angrywhtmale writes:
America
will be a f#%&*&g police state under Rudy, with mandatory military service, draft, and you think civil liberties were thrreatened under Bush? The only difference between Rudy and Hillary is that Rudy will actually implement 1984-like control over our daily lives. Read what he's said how freedom actually means full, willing submission to law enforcement. I sincerely fear the guy.

Put down the glue bottle and step away. Conservatives have a problem with Rudy because he is to liberal yet your think he is the second coming of Hitler. Police state? Oh I get it he cleaned up NYC so a citizen could walk through Times Square without getting mugged and you call it a police state.
Get a grip.

WHY IS RUDY SO POPULAR?

.....Rudy is a Conservative nightmare yet he is on top in National polls ...Why?

.....Could it be that he is a hawk? ....could Paul's lack of support be that he is a Dove? ...

.....I guesss all the pundits and experts that claimed that the GOP got its butt kicked in the '06 election was because of the war were wrong ...or only half right ...

.....Conservatives stayed home because Bush betrayed them with NAU and Amnesty and the GOP in the Congress became Democrat lite ...

.....Conservatives back Rudy because of his stance on the war ...Conservatives want the war to end but they want a quick victory ...not another withdrawl and betrayal like Vietnam ...

.....I disagree with Hamilton that wars end Republics ...I think war builds Republics ...the Republic of Rome fell when their wars ended ...they became fat, lazy and decadent ...

.....Our enemies are already inside our gates ...are we going to go the way of Rome? ...

....."A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly..." ...Marcus Tullius Cicero

.....COLOSSUS

Isolationism
Isolationism led this nation to stand by while Hitler conquered almost all of Europe and committed previously unthinkable atrocities.

With the advent of the airplane, the oceans no longer served an adequate protection of our nation.

Need I remind everyone that a group of Egyptians operating out of Afghanistan successfully attacked our nation and killed ~3000 people using only hijacked aircraft?

Can we be safe with Ahmadinejad and the grand Ayatollahs of Iran in control of a nuclear weapon? If your answer is yes, I ask if you have ever read the rhetoric of Ahmadinejad. I don’t mean the anti-Bush comments so many seem to love; I mean the anti-US comments and the anti-Free World comments.

Are we trying to resolve the issue by diplomacy? The answer is yes, we have asked the Europeans to intervene as they have had a closer relationship with that nation. We have given diplomacy time and we continue to do so? Why hasn't it worked yet? If diplomacy ultimately fails, do we just stand by and allow Iran to build nuclear weapons?

Military action could be a war or could be a single air strike on a weapons facility.

I for one would not support standing by and waiting to get nuked.

As a final comment, no one can bring out the anti-Semites like Pat Buchanan.

Why Giuliani needs terrorists

We've already seen what happens when you have a leader who's entire world-view is governed by a fear/anger response to 9/11. In Giuliani's case it also was the event that made him famous. He is the prime champion of fear in a party which knows that fear can work politically for those willing to stoke those fires.

It becomes a strange alliance between the Terrorist who can only exploit fear because he lacks military and economic power and the political players here who can only retain power by encouraging that fear. In the process those politicians squander our military and economic power in wars that only advance the spread of the terrorist's ideology.



bob
You should read my post again because I said nothing about conspiracy. I'll say that most Jews are good people but it cannot be denied that they are disproportionatley involved in leftwing and radical (yes I dare say "subversive") movements and organizations. I do not look at the ACLU, ADL, and AIPAC as "conspiracy" groups anymore than I think of the Republican Party as a conspiracy group. But you should not turn a blind eye regarding the deep-seated ethnic conflicts of interests that exist.

There are darn good reasons why Jews have been expelled from about 100 nations or principalities over the last several hundred years.

The Palestinians are savages
The Palestinians are a pack of savages.

They are the ONLY people on earth to have openly celebrated and cheered the 9-11 attack on America. Not just once, but day after day after day. An Associated Press cameraman who tried to videotape it had his life threatened and the AP had to pull him out of there.

The Europeans didn't celebrate (except for the usual ultra-left-wing suspects). Neither did the Iranians.

But the Palestinians did.

They don't DESERVE a state. For what they did they deserve to get down on their hands and knees and BEG for our forgiveness.

Liberius
I am sorry my friend. I do not believe that their is an interconnectec cabal of Jews who guide the rest of us like puppets, wringing their hands in glee every time another war breaks out. Nor do I believe they have secret meetings where they decide the fate of the rest of us while stuffing cash into their safes and further plotting world domination.

Consperacies of that size dont exist. The very nature of mankind-jewish or otherwise-makes such cabals counter intuitive to the human condition. Thousands of wealthy bankers all in agreement on the direction of the world? The very notion is absurd.

In the world you claim to believe exists, most jews are evil. Driven by nothing but their greed and lust for power. Seriously, are Jews really any more greedy or power hungry than any other ethnic or religious group?

I dont expect you to believe anything I am telling you. I have tried with folks like you before. Invariably I am called stupid or naive, as they trot off to other fascist web sites decrying the "greed and nefariousness of War Mongering Jews".

Fantasy Land
There is a growing trend in this country, that, while still fairly small, is quite disturbing.

I am referring to the cult of consperatorialists who think that Jews and Zionists control everything from American foriegn policy, to flouride in tap water.

These folks have become so mired in these beliefs that anything you say to the contrary is lost on them. In fact, if you persist in trying to talk sense into them, you will often be labeled a Zionist yourself. And this Jewish consperacy, as they see it, is not a new phenomenon. Many will tell you that Jews have controlled the world's money for centuries. They will even show you, "evidence" that proves their assertion. The two, holy grail items in their historical arsenal often come up....the USS Liberty incident, and King David Hotel. Forget for a moment that these isolated incidents are more than 40 years in the past. Forget that they prove nothing conclusive. Jew haters-who get offended when you point out that is what they are-will tell you these acts are proof of the insidious nature of Isreal and Zionist powers the world over.

I have long since given up trying to reach these people. They are too mired in their own consperatorial hatreds. What I would tell the rest of you is this: Avoid them. They have a sickness. There is no antidote.

Moshe Dayan the Peacenik said
If you want to make peace, you don't talk to your friends. You talk to your enemies.

comparisons to Nazi Germany are always
dumb.

That Iran could even take over more than 2
neighboring countries is a stretch.

Russia and the US could do this, but won't.

Try to find a more accurate analogy and use it.
Iran and Nazi Germany are not analogous.

jerabaub
Do us all a favor: stop with the tem "Neocons" and just say Jews. We know that is what you mean.

new generations, old lessons of history

much like with Hitler in 1938, there are people who are convinced that Iran poses no serious threat to the U.S.

and I suspect that much like 1939-1945, we will be forced to re-learn the same painful lessons regarding wishful thinking and appeasement.

Oh come on
Right now, we are trying to resolve this by putting an economic squeeze on Achmadine-nutjob. If some other countries (like Russia) would join that effort, war could be averted. But Russia is more interested in the money they're making off the guy, just as some of our European "allies" were more interested in the money they were making off Saddam before 2003.

I'm sure Mahmoud, if he's able to hold out til 2008, would much prefer we elect a leader who he can snow. I suspect that if he smiles nice and tells Mrs. Clinton he's only being a peacful nuke guy, she would prefer to believe that so she could concentrate on her social programs here at home. Kicking the can down the road is a Clinton specialty.

I don't believe anyone really is lusting for war with Iran. But if you want someone to stop doing something, there has to be a perceived consequence (I somehow don't think that Mahmoud will stop building nukes because Hillary says so, or Obama convinces him to be a nice guy. Whoever we elect must be perceived as someone who would use a military option if it came to that.

Rudy is in the pocket of AIPAC
but so is Hillary. And the MSM which touts them both. Recognize it, fight it.

Hey Jack
Sign me up too. Have Constitution and weapon, will travel....

Rudy is in the pocket of Jews
who want to use American blood and American treasure to advance Jewish and Israeli interests.

I disagree with Buchanan's criticisms of Pipes wanting to profile Muslims. There is nothing wrong with profiling. We are stupid if we don't profile. It just means keeping a closer eye on certain people in high risk groups. Doctor's profile patients and police need to profile potential terrorists.

But Buchanan is totally right by pointing out the conflict of interests we have with "Israeli-Americans" being the primary advisors to our presidents. We are insane to allow ourselves to be controlled by Jewish interests.

Remember the Israeli attack on the USS Liberty!

Culturism and Mr. Pipes
Culturism recognizes people's right to defend their culture. It is opposed, thus, to international human rights that must be protected. Mr. Pipes once wrote that we must punish Saudi Arabia because they do not let non-Muslim religious symbols into their country. Why? That is their way. Culturism says they have a right to protect their culture as we have a right to protect ours.

I have no problem with striking Iran's nuclear facilities from the sky. Nukes are not a part of their culture. But if we are going to occupy their country and try turn them into us we are rufusing to recognize cultural diversity exists. They are different. That is their right.

http://www.culturism.us

Seawolf
The level of fear from American men these days has me quaking in my boots. Come on, guys, you sound like scared chickens...Think about it. You're scared to death of the self-proclaimed 5'2" "dictator" of a third-world country. Sheesh.

Grow a couple.

a neocon bidding war.
Norman Podhoretz is out-bidding even his fellow neocons in advocating the U.S. opple regimes in Syria, Iran, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Lebanon, Libya, Palestinian authority.

Perhaps some neocons will up the ante and demand Bush bomb Pakistan before leaving office. After all, there is turmoil in the streets and large parts of Pakistan are a haven for the Taliban and Al Qaida.

Why stop there? Why not attack Russia? After all, it, along with China, supports Iran.

Perhaps Buchanan is making a caricature of the neocons. No one could possibly be that delusional. Surely these neocons are not serious in wanting to topple Egypt and others.

But just when I don't believe anyone could possibly be that delusional, some people are already claiming the recent surge in Iraq has totally vindicated Bush.

It is like there are two universes out there. One is real. The other is inhabited by Bush and the neocons.

If Rudy intends to "ape" the Bush policy in the mideast, he will surely lose the general election.

ALL polls reveal deep anxiety among Americans that our nation is on the wrong track. Smiling photo-ops of Bush with Sarkozy will not change that.

On both domestic and foreign policy issues, this election will be about change. And any politician who does not realize that will be sadly disappointed on election day.




Iran doesnt want war, Seawolf
It is these guys.
Dragging the US into yet another of their quests for 'greater isreal'

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArtVty.jhtml?sw=iran&i temNo=921857

Report: Washington concerned Israel gearing up to attack Iran

Washington officials are concerned that Tehran's announcement that it has 3,000 centrifuges fully working in its controversial uranium enrichment program will lead to an Israeli strike on Iran, the British daily The Times reported on Thursday.

Pentagon sources in Washington fear Israel could move to attack the uranium enrichment plant, as U.S. officials and foreign media reports confirmed it did a suspected Syrian nuclear facilily on September 6.

The Times report quoted military officials as saying that while the United States is hesitant to embark on an attack on Iran, Israel is a "different matter."

ElBaradei is expected to issue another report on November 22 on the progress of Iran's nuclear program, findings that could be key to whether the United Nations decides to impose a third set of sanctions against the Islamic Republic.

Bush defends World War Three comments on Iran
U.S. President George W. Bush defended in a television interview on Wednesday his recent comments suggesting Iran's nuclear ambitions might trigger World War Three and insisted he wanted a diplomatic solution.

"The reason I said that is because this is a country that has defied the IAEA - in other words, didn't disclose all their program - have said they want to destroy Israel," Bush said in the interview with German broadcaster RTL.

"If you want to see World War Three, you know, a way to do that is to attack Israel with a nuclear weapon," Bush added. "And so I said, now is the time to move. It wasn't a prediction, nor a desire."

We are already in a war
for our very survival, are we to elect clinton who would serve us up on a platter to the very people who seek to destroy us?

Don't forget it was her treasonous husband who allowed the chinese to obtain the technology to get their missiles to fly straight and now they can launch satellite destroyers that can blind our spy satellites and GPS system degrading our weapons accuracy.

We are the big dog, we earned it and we need to prove it to those who would destroy us that we will do whatever is necessary to stay there.

What buchanen doesn't get is this pisant in iran WANTS us to attack, he believes armageddon serves his purpose, if we don't take him out he'll send a nuke our way, better we grow mushrooms in his backyard than he in ours.


Say hello
Say hello to:

1) the military draft
2) American bankruptcy
3) sky-high inflation

My answer to your question is yes, a vote for Rudy IS a vote for war. Hopefully, we will get a sensible president who understands the woeful economics of the idea, and will steer us in another direction.

Ron Paul.

http://www.foxbusiness.com/video/index.html

Agreed
I would hope that Rudy is following the Nixon rule of running as far to the right as hard as you can in the primary, and then running as fast as you can back to the center for the general. If not, then we better hope that somewhere along the way, saner heads prevail. Just who or what is Rudy going to use for all of these wars? Our forces are over-extended as it is, Pakistan is going through a very dangerous period, we cannot get into Kashmir to get to Bin Laden - who has turned that into another safe base, and now we want to arbitrarily turn up the heat on Syria, Iran, and whoever else we don't like. Further, we are watching oil move to $100 per barrel, Russia and Iran are dropping the use of the dollar in the purchase and sale of oil, China has indicated that she is going to start selling off our debt because the dollar is no longer a strong currency, and Saudi Arabia is refusing to buy further debt at the interest rate leves recently announced by the feds. Someone better wake up and understand that the world doesn't need aircraft carriers to punish us. Indeed, having hollowed out our manufacturing base, we can't even produce what we need any more. There's a reason 75% of American's are worried about the future. As the dollar fades as a currency of choice - the cost of funding our debt will rise, as will the cost of energy.

These are some dangerous people. They have convinced themselves that Iraq is a success - while ignoring it's cost, the fact that we haven't even begun the process of "rebuilding", nor dealt with the issue of the rise of Shia power - which has infuriated old allies like the Saudi's - which is at the core of their increasing independence in the region. At one time they might turn up the spigots to tamp down the oil prices - but no more. Someone better get a clue.


but...
... it is a relief to see that at least one Townhall writer sees him in the same light. Hats off to Buchanan - never thought I'd write that...

In good company...
Perhaps it is fitting that a lunatic like Rudy surrounds himself with other lunatics. A little while ago I met with the ceo of an oil services company, not one that American investors would know but a multi-billion dollar business. I asked him what he thought the result of an American attack on Iran would do to the price of oil - because the day before John Bolton had been interviewed on British television and he claimed that an attack would reduce the price of oil. This ceo laughed his head off - $200 a barrel in the blink of an eye he said. A little while ago ING Barings, a Ducth bank, produced some research from its economists on the possible outcome of an attack. I wish I had kept it, although it made terrifying reading for any investor. The more I hear about Rudy Guiliani the more I am convinced that he is a dangerous maniac.

A VOTE FOR RUDY IS A VOTE FOR HILLARY
Do the math.Rudy has split the base.Rudy's positions .Rudy's luggage.The MSM wants the weakest GOP person they can get to run so Hillary can win.OK I know that Chris Matthews wants Obama and Sean wants Rudy . The money says that it is Hillary to win. This is just smoke and mirrors .It is the shell game of watch the pea.My sword is bigger than your husband's sword. So are you saying that we think that Ol'Dad can protect us better than Mom ? Well I agree and this time let's vote for a very very smart Dad with the brains to wage a war on many levels.Mitt Romney. Pat I saw you on Hardball last night and I agree with you 100 % . It is Romney to win. Only Ann will make the best first lady.

Don't worry about it , boys
You can ease off the overheated rhetoric. When Hellary is elected, the Pentagon will be hosting bingo night to buy munitions.

Then Iran and Pakistan and China and Russia can have their way with the world while we stand idly by with impotent little sneers on our faces.

Um, Patrick
in your post you said Rudy's for "legalized homosexuality" and "legalized abortion"...are you really that ignorant? wow.

Educational standards have plummeted
This is what I wrote above at 2:41 am:

"[Ghouliani] supports legalized homosexuality, legalized abortion and is a confirmed backer of big government."

-

I DIDN'T write "supports legalization of homosexuality, legalization of abortion".

"angrywhtmale" and "budbud" (above) are functionally illiterate, the poor lost souls; they are the inevitable detritus of a bastardized "educational" system that spent oodles of time teaching them "self-esteem" while neglecting important subjects such as usage of English grammar.

It's just as well that those who support immorality are illiterate as well.

Otherwise we might have to take them seriously.

Angrywhtmale. I tip my hat to you sir.
Is Patrick delusional?

Patrick. Last time I checked homosexuality and abortion were legal in America.

Isn't it ironic how the thumpers have now lumped these two things together as their top shelf issues.

Homosexuality and Abortion. In real life, these two things are perhaps never associated with one another.

Hey Patrick, perhaps you Xian conservatives could pick one over the other and finally rid the country of it. For instance, why don't we "outlaw" heterosexuality, make everyone have gay sex only and then there will be no more abortions!

I just solved Americas abortion problem. Now, all you fundies need to do is to "choose" to be gay tommorrow and abortion in America will no longer make baby Jesus cry.

Come on...choose. Jesus is waiting for you to end abortion. He's waiting. He's waiting.

Um, Patrick
in your post you said Rudy's for "legalized homosexuality" and "legalized abortion"...are you really that ignorant? wow.

America
will be a f#%&*&g police state under Rudy, with mandatory military service, draft, and you think civil liberties were thrreatened under Bush? The only difference between Rudy and Hillary is that Rudy will actually implement 1984-like control over our daily lives. Read what he's said how freedom actually means full, willing submission to law enforcement. I sincerely fear the guy.

Excellent Column
Sometimes I feel I'm in an alternative universe when listening to those in our party screaming for war with Iran. It would be bad enough to cheerlead such a war against a country who has neither the means nor intent to attack us. But even more so- after a disastrous war that was ill-conceived, based on errant intelligence, one where we underestimated the aftermath consequences, and one which we are STILL struggling to keep in check. That we would initiate another war with Iran given the strained military, given the unraveling in Afghanistan, given the assured counter bombing of our troops in Iraq by Iran, and given the fact that we may not be able to reach our targets in Iran without nuclear bunker buster bombs simply suggests that this war-drunk madness has become contagious.

I'm hoping saner voices will prevail.

Rudy: bad for U.S., bad for Israel, bad
for the world. Turning the middle east into the battle theatre for world war 3 is not good for Israel. Every one of the advisors Pat named except Hill, the gentile "face" of the advisors, is Jewish. Which is fine, but being that Jews are only 2 percent of the U.S. population is Jewish, it should tell us who will be calling the shots in terms of U.S. foreign policy if Rudy is elected. It is not just that these people are Jews, it is that they are militant, Israel first Jews, who have a vision of carving up the middle east in to smaller tribal/religious based sects. And they want the U.S. to be there sword. And it is not for U.S. intrest, it is to remove any regime that might threaten Israel. But these people are fanatics, and I believe thay are over playing there hand. I think this will put Israel, and the U.S. in much more danger.

Dump Ghouliani: "America's Dumpster"
Should Ghouliani get elected, it will be another dark day in American history. Ghouliania is a moral degenerate with serious psychosocial disorders who has no empathy for the families of the dead 9/11 firefighters whose remains he unceremoniously dumped. He supports legalized homosexuality, legalized abortion and is a confirmed backer of big government.

If America is presented with the alternatives of Ghouliani and Billary, it will mark the death knell of the American Republic.

Jack
Those are some strong words, but I couldn't agree more.

Have gun will participate:)
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