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Tuesday, October 23, 2007
Pat Buchanan :: Townhall.com Columnist
Apocalypse Now?
by Pat Buchanan
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The scaremongers are not always wrong. The Trojans should have listened to Cassandra. But history shows that the scaremongers are usually wrong.

Parson Malthus predicted mass starvation 250 years ago, as the population was growing geometrically, doubling each generation, while agricultural production was going arithmetically, by 2 percent or so a year. But today, with perhaps 1 percent of our population in full-time food production, we are the best-fed and fattest 300 million people on Earth.

Karl Marx was proven dead wrong about the immiseration of the masses under capitalism and the coming revolution in the industrial West, though they still have hopes at Harvard.

Neville Chute's "On the Beach" proved as fictional as "Dr. Strangelove" and "Seven Days in May." Paul Ehrlich's "Population Bomb" never exploded. It fizzled, when the Birth Dearth followed the Baby Boom.

"The Crash of '79" never happened. Instead, we got Ronald Reagan and record prosperity. The Club of Rome notwithstanding, we did not run out of oil. The world did not end in Y2K, when we crossed the millennium, as some had prophesied. "Nuclear winter," where we were all going to freeze to death after the soot from Reagan's nuclear war blotted out the sun, didn't quite happen. Rather, the Soviet Empire gave up the ghost.

Is then global warming -- a steady rise in the temperature of the Earth to where the polar ice caps melt, oceans rise 23 feet, cities sink into the sea and horrendous hurricanes devastate the land -- an imminent and mortal danger?

Put me down as a disbeliever.

Like the panics of bygone eras, this one has the aspect of yet another re-enactment of the Big Con. The huckster arrives in town, tells all the rubes that disaster impends for them and their families, but says there may be one last chance they can be saved. But it will take a lot of money. And the folks should go about collecting it, right now.

This, it seems to me, is what the global-warming scare and scam are all about -- frightening Americans into transferring sovereignty, power and wealth to a global political elite that claims it alone understands the crisis and it alone can save us from impending disaster.

Under the Kyoto Protocol, from which China and India were exempt, the United States was to reduce carbon emissions to 1990 levels, which could not be done without inducing a new Depression and reducing the standard of living of the American people. So, we ignored Kyoto -- and how have we suffered? The Europeans who signed on also largely ignored it. How have they suffered?

We are told global warming was responsible for the hurricane summer of Katrina and Rita that devastated Texas, Mississippi and New Orleans. Yet Dr. William Gray, perhaps the nation's foremost expert on hurricanes, says he and his most experienced colleagues believe humans have little impact on global warming and global warming cannot explain the frequency or ferocity of hurricanes. After all, we had more hurricanes in the first half of the 20th century than in the last 50 years, as global warming was taking place.

"We're brainwashing our children," says Gray. "They're going to the Gore movie ("An Inconvenient Truth") and being fed all this. It's ridiculous. ... We'll look back on all of this in 10 or 15 years and realize how foolish it was."

Gray does concede that for a scholar to question global warming can put his next federal grant in mortal peril.

While modest warming has taken place, there is no conclusive evidence human beings are responsible, no conclusive evidence Earth's temperature is rising dangerously or will reach intolerable levels and no conclusive evidence that warming will do more harm than good.

The glaciers may be receding, but the polar bear population is growing, alarmingly in some Canadian Indian villages. Though more people on our planet of 6 billion may die of heat, estimates are that many more may be spared death from the cold. The Arctic ice cap may be shrinking, but that may mean year-round passage through northern Canadian waters from the Atlantic to the Pacific and the immense resources of the Arctic made more accessible to man. Why else did Vladimir Putin's boys make their dash to claim the pole?

The mammoth government we have today is a result of politicians rushing to solve "crises" by creating and empowering new federal agencies.

Whether it's hunger, poverty or homelessness, in the end, the poor are always with us, but now we have something else always with us: scores of thousands of federal bureaucrats, and armies of academics to study the problem and assess the progress, with all their pay and benefits provided by our tax dollars.

Cal Coolidge said that when you see 10 troubles coming up the road toward you, sometimes the best thing to do is nothing, because nine of them will fall into the ditch before they get to you. And so it will be with global warming, if we don't sell out America to the hucksters who would save us.

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About The Author
Pat Buchanan is a founding editor of The American Conservative magazine, and the author of many books including State of Emergency: The Third World Invasion and Conquest of America .
 
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You got it Pat!
You hit the nail on the head!

A solution
I say that everybody who believes in this global warming crisis should immediately adopt an Amish lifestyle. Aren't we regularly told that most people believe these dire predictions?

Surely, if that many people suddenly started growing their own food and wearing broadcloth clothing with hooks and fasteners, we'd see new ice formations in the polar regions.

People like me could just go on living as we do. Cars. Air conditioning. Aerosol sprays. Styrofoam coffee cups. Air travel.

I could deal with it. People giving me the middle finger from their horse-drawn buggies as I zip by at 70 mph in my Ford Ranger. I'd get over the guilt.

While we're at it, do you think we could get animal rights activists to swear to refuse any medical treatment that may at one time have benefited from animal testing? Or refuse help from doctors who may have dissected animals at some point during their medical training? Easy. Just refuse any such treatment if you are ever sick or injured again in your lives.

Think we could get the enviros and the Peta crowd to do this?

Buchanan Right On This One
Whle I have been very critical of Pat Buchanan's isolationist ramblings on foreign plicy, when he writes a good article -- like here on so-called global warming -- I compliment the piece.

phil hows your son
and again you are spot on about Pat this is a good one

Fearmongering results in more grants.
Of course Pat is correct.

I might add the fearmongers have a vested interest in predicting doom, for it places the issue in the forefront of the American psyche, and that makes it easier for these groups to obtain financial grants so they increase the volume in predicting our doom...which somehow never seems to come to pass.

Politicians of both parties are ready to cede our sovereignty. The democrats(especially the lunatic Al Gore)wanted to do it via Kyoto, while Bush and some others cede our sovereignty via various amnesty schemes, and the awful Law of the Seas Treaty.

Global Fuedalism? Kings of Combustio
In James Michener’s novel, Poland, there is a story of how the feudal lords made it a capital offense foe a peasant to grind their own grain with a private millstone to make bread to feed their families. Today’s would be aristocrats are trying to institute a new lucrative measure of control and rationing; carbon credits. In this new scheme certain well connected bureaucrats and politicians will determine and ration how much coal, wood or petroleum products they will allow a person, business and even country to use. Under the ruse and guise of “protecting the planet” they will be the sole, non-elected arbiters on how much carbon one can use for travel, heating and industry. In short, they will control all industrial processes along with modes and amount of travel. First, they will paraphrase Henny Penny’s portentous, despairing cry of imminent doom, “The sky is heating!” Then, the only solution proffered will be absolute control of all combustion. Finally, only friends, contributors and companies in which they or their collaborators own stock will be allowed access to resources needed for industry and the economy. This resembles the government-chartered monopolies in the age of Mercantilism. In fact it will be a type of Marxist monopoly envisioned in Ayn Rand’s novel, Atlas Shrugged. And who stands to benefit for this feudal right to allocate resources and sell the permission to use carbon? It will be their new excellencies, Al Gore, Robert Kennedy and the rest of the Democratic progressive elite.
Michael Guy

profit sharing?
Pat it sure would be nice if you could share some of this with your friends at MSNBC

We Puny Humans....
We puny humans actually think we have a profound effect on climate. Pat Buchanan is right: there may or may not be a global warming trend, but humans likely have nothing to do with it (if it even exists).

The dynamics of weather are truly gigantic, way beyond human ability to change it in any significant way. A typical large hurricane, I've heard, releases more energy than several large hydrogen bombs. Weather is also incredibly complex, with causes and effects we still don't understand.
We still don't know what causes the cyclic ice ages that have come and gone over the past several million years. We can be certain, however, that they were not caused by human activity!

You may have observed that the global warming crowd has changed its tune slightly. It's now called "global climate change" to avoid the embarrassment of have a "global warming" demonstration taking place in the middle of record cold snap somewhere.

Sorry Mr. Buchanan
He is one of the few conservatives I still respect (if not agree with), but he got some things very wrong here.

"the United States was to reduce carbon emissions to 1990 levels, which could not be done without inducing a new Depression and reducing the standard of living of the American people."

Really? Because four countries in Europe, the UK, Germany, Sweden, and France, all reduced their emissions to below 1990 levels and none of them suffered economic catastrophe. By most economic measures (including GDP growth and employment), they're doing as well as we are. These countries have somewhat different circumstances than us, of course, but it seems to me that if they can do it, so can we.

"Gray does concede that for a scholar to question global warming can put his next federal grant in mortal peril."

OK, I don't get this. The right wing had a near monopoly on power for six years which only ended partially and recently, and he's saying global warming alarmists are in charge? Show me one grant that has been denied based solely on the researcher's findings or position on global warming.

Sorry Mr. Buchanan (cont)
"there is no conclusive evidence human beings are responsible"

That depends on what he means by "conclusive". If he means 100% certainty, he'll be waiting a long time, and in the meantime, it gives him a great excuse not to accept any science he doesn't want to.

"Though more people on our planet of 6 billion may die of heat, estimates are that many more may be spared death from the cold."

This strikes me as very Euro-centric. He probably is right if you consider deaths in North America and Europe, but the majority of the world's population live in areas that never see blizzards. I don't think people in sub-Saharan Africa have to worry too much about a sudden cold snap. Heat waves, on the other hand...

Pat Buchanan is right to speak out against global warming alarmism, but he seems to see absolutely nothing wrong with spouting big government alarmism. GW is a problem that we'll need to deal with, and wild claims on either side do not help.

Pat you're right to disbelieve Bore
Even using the popularly-taught theory of Pleistocene glaciation age, the amount of sea-level rise with the melt from max glaciation (where ice sheets over 200' thick were found as far south as Savannah) produced a sea-level rise of only 40" (nowhere near the 20' that Gore claims).

A cartoon showing him accepting the Peace Prize said it best when he told people the Nobel Committee had given him "this 20' medal" (which he could carry around in one hand)!

RED ALERT, FRIENDS!
This is not a drill. This is the real thing.

A massive amnesty for illegal aliens is probably coming up for a vote Wednesday in the Senate.

Senate Majority Leader Reid (D-Nev.) has just filed for "cloture" on S. 2205 (the DREAM Act amnesty).

If Americans don't phone Tuesday until the switchboard shuts down, it looks like we're going to have a brand new amnesty for illegal aliens coming out of the Senate later this week.

PLEASE CALL YOUR TWO SENATORS AND PLEAD THAT THEY VOTE 'NO' ON THE S. 2205 CLOTURE ON WEDNESDAY.

Phone Senate Switchboard
202-224-3121

You can also go to http://numbersusa.com to send free faxes, but phone calls will be more effective.

Carbon not the culprit
Whatever is causing the current global warming, carbon is surely not the culprit.

First, carbon is a weak greenhouse gas. It only traps heat in specific infrared wavelengths and must compete with other greenhouse gases that also trap heat along those same wavelengths.

Second, the data for the last 600,000 years shows temperatures go up first and then atmospheric CO2 levels rise. Surely the rise in CO2 isn't driving global warming if the warming comes first!

Rihjt on!!
Pat is right!! "Global Warming" really looks like a polictical ploy more than anything else.

Oh My Goodness Scaremongers
__The passionate, save our world, population of the world. An undeniable truth lies within these "Chicken Littles", and their clucking. "The sky is falling" and they gave up their protection long ago. For centuries these individual scavengers have built their fortified structures to protect their feed, and prosperity, while others went without. The others were never eliminated. Their faith, and endurance persisted has they took the lead, and overcame the selfish individuals living in the worlds grandeur. This society of faith built, and created, a national society that became a model for the world to follow. An independant society knowing the temporary prosperity of life in the world. A society that understood the need to create circumstances which protected the abilities of all to prosper. Circumstances in which a society, united, could overcome tragedies of the world. These people knew their lives in the world, and its pleasures, could end in a moment. Those of faith, and endurance, do not constantly cluck, "the sky is falling", has they know their life will continue. They act to ensure it!

Easy Solution to Melting Ice Caps
Move to higher ground.

It's the same solution Mankind has been using for thousands of years, and it worked for floods, fires, wild animals, and even other Men.


Really?
France's true unemployment is far far greater than the US. France reported unemployment rats is 8.7% (and its true unemployment is probably twice that since people in job training, etc aren't counted). Germany has 7.1% unemployment (and again this is under reported).

But even the US were to follow suit the impact on global warming (even if it exists) would be too small to measure. Using their own number, Kyoto would lower the global temps by only 1/10th of one degree. And this doesn't factor in China and India building more and more coal-fired power plants. Have idiot Americans stop driving their SUVs and the like but it will do about as much good as trying to drain the oceans with a water pail.

George Will has an excellent article on the costs involved. Economics is about scarcity and allocation of resources--it is a zero sum game. A dollar spent on global warming is a dollar that can't be spent elsewhere and much of the time dollars on global warming are a misuse of resources that could be better spent elsewhere.


Pat FINALLY Gets One ENTIRELY RIGHT!
Amazing.

As for Frey's assertion that four European economies have CUT their carbon emissions to less than in 1990 ... that's a complete delusion ... they have INCREASED ... more than in the US by the way! Frey is an idiot!

As for Frey's other assertion that grants aren't denied because the conservatives have had power ... Frey again demonstrates the fool he is ... it's the liberal minions in government who actually approve and disapprove such grants that don't mindlessly follow the liberal climate agenda and who subvert conservative leadership.

Necessity it the mother of invention
I'm sorry, but I just don't get this opposition to all of this. The only logic that I can see is that 99% of this is opposition to Al Gore as opposed to the idea of global warming.

First I'll admit to be a child of the 60s, Earth Day, etc. What is the down side to all of this?

If you look, when Bush took office, oil was under $18.00/barrel! Despite his family connections to Saudi Arabia, and their promise to keep oil prices down, oil is now at about $88.00/barrel with rumors of it hitting $100.00/barrel.

So what's the downside to forcing the automakers to produce cars that are more efficient? I see enough suburban moms driving around in their Ford Expeditions to make me wish for $10.00/gallon gasoline. If you go to other countries, you do not see the gas guzzlers that you see here. For 90% of Americans there is no reason for this monsters.

NASA has proven invaluable to the development of things such as computers and many other innovations. Why wouldn't we expect the same thing to happen with a push to ecology driven mandates?

Perhaps part of the problem with the US, is that our attitude tends to be, whatever we need we'll just buy it, whatever the cost. Many other resource rich poor nations such as Europe and Japan have learned how to do things without simply viewing the planet as a source of ever decreasing resources.

The sea is rising
People that have actually looked at this show sea rises of one to two feet, not 23 feet like Al Gore claims and such rises can be addressed much cheaper with seawalls and the like than trying the dubious task of lowering global temps.

Also, yes, people in Europe die in in heat waves--more die from freezing to death. Should we increase this total by lowering the temps. are the winters in Moscow or Murmansk not cold enough for you?

Next week it will be down around 10 degrees in Yellowknife, do you think they would complain if it only got down to 20 instead? Would they be more happy if it was 10 below?

So Frey...
"That depends on what he means by "conclusive". If he means 100% certainty, he'll be waiting a long time, and in the meantime, it gives him a great excuse not to accept any science he doesn't want to."

And just where is this "science" YOU ARE talking about? Just where is the proof, if any, that man is having any significant effect on global warming?

Who are you
Who are you to tell them they don't need them?

The downside is economics. A few true facts--we don't know there is global warming, we don't know that man is the cause if it exists and we don't know what impact we would have if we tried.

A dollar spent on global warming is a dollar that can't be spent on say seawalls or air conditions for the Europeans.

The downside for the automakers are smaller and lighter cars and thus more deaths. You want to try to get around a family of five in a Dodge Neon? And I am not sure what countries you have been around but there are SUVs in places like Taiwan and Japan. So what is your trade off? How many more deaths are you willing to accept for the MPH savings?

I get about 15 miles to the gallon. I'd love to get 30 or 50, but you going to build me a full size truck that has the same horsepower and won't break apart in an accident and can carry 3000 pounds of cordwood in its bed? I bet you are the one these idiots that complain about how big a person's house should be. Mine is 2,500 sq. or so. People have 11,000 and 17,000 sq. foot houses. I have no idea why someone needs that much space, but I am going to be the last person to tell them they shouldn't build such a thing.

And much of the oil price runup over the past few years are due to speculation impacts--the market fearing loss of supplies due to instability--notice what is going on in Venezuela, Russia, Nigeria? And OPEC finally able to reduce supply by finally holding firm on production quotas.

Japan's poor resource is land and soon to be people. It imports a great deal of oil just as the US does. It imports about 5 million barrels a day second only to the US in total amount. As I said, it has SUVs as well.

The REAL oldest profession...
Way back in the cave man days some tribes were lucky enough to have plenty of resources so that an enterprising cave man could reinvent himself as a shaman and get out of work.
Poof! The priest class was born.
Claiming to have first hand knowledge of the great beyond, they alone could stand between the uninitiated and the terrors of the spirit world; all in exchange for goods and services of course.
This Snake Oil Salesman has morphed throughout time into Albert Gore, Nobel laureate. Defender of bears and coastlines.
Physics be damned, we evil humans have hurt Mother Gaia and unless we buy his Prof. Al Gore's Certified Carbon Credits of Buttery Goodness we are all doomed. Doomed I tell you!
The Earth Spirit is poised to rub us out like it did the dinosaurs, but Prof. Al Gore's Carbon Credits of Buttery Goodness can save the day.
Just fork over control of all the country's resources. Al will control your house thermostat from his workshop/palatial mansion. Al will tell you what kind of car you can drive.
Al will save us all. All he wants is complete control of the entire production capabilities of the United States. Oh, and eternal gratitude too.
Bah! I cast a jaundiced eye upon the whole operation.

I agree with Citizen Carrier
If you really believe the hype, and you want ME to adapt my lifestyle to what the scaremongers want me to live like, the scaremongers should lead the way. Of course, I don't generally go out and waste resources and I already ride my bicycle to work most of the time.

However, I do work in academia and on most days, my bicycle is the only one parked in the rack. My campus is full of hippies who drive in from distances of up to 50 miles to campus. So, while they may drive an efficient car, they are still burning more gas in one day than I would in an entire week, even if I drove a Hummer to work. And while they have the excuse of living far away from work, they also have the option of taking a lower paying job closer to home.

In other words, while they look down at using resources for economic benefit, they are doing the same by commuting in to work.


TrueConservative
"As for Frey's assertion that four European economies have CUT their carbon emissions to less than in 1990 ... that's a complete delusion ... they have INCREASED ... more than in the US by the way!"

Looking at Europe as a whole, you're right. Looking at the four countries I was talking about, you're wrong. (Surprise, surprise)

"As for Frey's other assertion that grants aren't denied because the conservatives have had power ... Frey again demonstrates the fool he is ... it's the liberal minions in government who actually approve and disapprove such grants that don't mindlessly follow the liberal climate agenda and who subvert conservative leadership."

Uh, huh. Find that example of a denied grant I asked for?

Crust Shifting!!!!!!!


When they have capped the volcanoes and turned down the sun to control the climate, they really need to get busy on Crust Shifting!
More people die from earthquakes every year than have died from climate change in the past 100 years. Someone needs to stop this Crust Shifting!
The continents are drifting all over the globe, Crust Shifting!!
In California billions of dollars of prime real-estate is at risk, from Crust Shifting!
Crust Shifting!
Crust Shifting!
Oh my!

Independent (yeah right) thinker
"And just where is this "science" YOU ARE talking about? Just where is the proof, if any, that man is having any significant effect on global warming?"

And almost every scientific organization has endorsed the theory of AGW, why? Because they're part of the big government conspiracy? Actually wait, you probably believe that, never mind.

There's a lot of evidence, but the one that's the clencher for me is the temperature change pattern of the atmosphere. AGW theory predicted that the temperature of the lower atmosphere would increase as much as or faster than on Earth's surface, and the upper stratosphere would actually cool. And that's exactly what's been happening. There's no alternative theory of global warming that can explain that.

Akagi
No one really knew that they needed computers until they were invented. The technology to come up with small computers came right out of NASA. Had this country not had a space program, we may not have gotten small computers.

By that logic, you don't know that $1.00 spent on technology won't give you another computer industry. Right?

Safe vehicles. By your logic we should be putting everyone in the country into M-1 tanks. We'd all be safe and we'd be able to carry everything we need.

As for choice, I understand that. As a hobby I have a 26 year old Triumph TR8. 18 mpg. At best. I drive a SUV, but I got one of higher mileage ones that I could find, a Ford Escape. I'm sorry, but in my suburban Chicago neighborhood, and even in the city, you see lots of people driving Ford Excursions, Hummers, and Chevy Suburbans. This is ridiculous. Yes, people should have a choice, but you also have to have compromises for the sake of the country and the world.

Prime example. Minivans. When they first came out, and for at least 5 years, if not longer they were classified as trucks. They didn't have to meet passenger car safety standards and emission standards. At the same time, the auto industry was marketing them as alternatives to station wagons. That was absolute nonsense. It continues to this day in that vehicles get exemptions for purely political reasons, pickup trucks being another example. (The only reason I know this is that our first Dodge Caravan didn't have head restraints and I thought that was odd.)

Safety? If you made the largest vehicle on the road a Dodge Neon, things would be safer for everyone.

Virginia Patriot
As an aside, it doesn't always take science long to prove a point.

One of my biology professors did his graduate work in the late 40s early 50s. His doctoral thesis was on continental drift and bird migration (it's continental drift not crust shifting). He used continental drift to explain why some species of birds migrated 1,000s of miles. At the time, his ideas were soundly dismissed by much of the scientific community.

He did live long enough to see that he was proven right, and they were wrong.

I know, WAY too much information,but you comment about crust shifting reminded me of a great old gentleman.

Akagi
"France's true unemployment is far far greater than the US. France reported unemployment rats is 8.7% (and its true unemployment is probably twice that since people in job training, etc aren't counted). Germany has 7.1% unemployment (and again this is under reported)."

Link a rise in unemployment to the implementation of Kyoto, and then you'd have a case.

But thanks for updating my figures.

As for the other thing, Kyoto won't do much towards the CO2 level by itself, but saying that it can't be done because Kyoto doesn't work is like saying a toddler will never walk because he stumbled the first time he tried.

Yes and if we drove 5 mph
If the speed limit was 5 mph on all streets we'd all be much safer too. Anyone driving over 5 mph would be sent to a labor camp. I bet few would drive over 5 mph once we got a few thousand breaking stone in Idaho. We'd had a GPS and mini camera pointed at the driver so we'd know who drove the car and how fast they were going. Maybe a kill switch and auto door lock once they hit 6 mph so they'd be there stuck until resuced and arrested.

We'd save many lives and we'd also kill the economy. If you don't like a large SUV, don't buy one. No one is against higher mph. Who likes to spend more money for gas? But I make the exchange for higher power and cargo capicity over mph. A Dodge Neon gets twice the MPH (at least) than my Dodge Ram 1500, but the Dodge Neon can't carry over a ton of firewood, topsoil, etc and thus the cargo requirements are more important than the mph and as a bonus I am safter in a crash. Who do you think walks away from a t-bone collision between a large SUV and me--me in the Ram 1500 or in the Neon?

And I make compromises for me, not the nation or the world. I'm not a collectivist. You compromise all you want--means more resources for the rest of us.

Doesn't Inspire Confidence
I presume Buchanan wrote this piece in a hurry, because some of the things he says in the first few paragraphs don't inspire confidence in the remainder. First, he talks about Malthus's predictions of mass starvation 250 years hence---a GLOBAL prediction, if memory serves--then immediately segues to how well fed AMERICANS are today. He does something similar with Paul Ehrlich's "Population Bomb" saying it "never exploded. It fizzled, when the Birth Dearth followed the Baby Boom." Ehrlich was, of course, wrong on his timing, but again his predictions were on GLOBAL basis, whereas Buchanan's references to a baby boom and a birth dearth appear to refer to the United States.

Another logical problem comes in Buchanan's reference to how we didn't run out of oil despite warnings from the Club of Rome. Like Ehrlich, the Club of Rome may have been guilty of shorter-than-realistic timelines, but that hardly means we can ignore warnings from the Club or other observers that the world faces some hard decisions as we near the day when there will not be enough petroleum or other non-renewable resources to meet demand.

China and India
You get China and India to stop building coal fired power plants, then maybe I'd care.

Think China is going to stop selling cars just because you western enviromental nutcases think CO2 is bad? Care to explain to me how an American buying a Prius (which is actually far worse for the enviromnent than a Hummer) is going to have an impact when China adds millions of cars over the next few years, not to mention the power plants I listed above.

You want to solve the CO2 problem, destroy China and India's economy. A nice and long major war between the two would be nice if you can keep it non-nuclear. Otherwise, you are spitting at heaven.


Oil
Once oil becomes more expensive, new technologies that are now too expensive will become economically viable. The reason we use oil is because it is the cheapest form of energy that is widely available.

You can burn biodiesel, use CNG, etc, but oil is cheaper. When the day comes that is no longer the case, technology will shift as it always has.


Gore - the wisest man of our time.
I am sure that Al Gore would not be spending his time addressing the issue of global warming if it did not exist. He has tirelessly created a carbon credit business in order to alleviate the threat, and he tours the world giving speeches and accepting token honorariums for his trouble. It is likely that Gore would prefer an obscure life that would permit him to escape the public eye, yet he sacrifices himself by accepting the accolades heaped upon him by those that recognize his scientific genius.

Gore is probably the wisest scientific mind of the past century, as evidenced by his winning of a Nobel, Emmy, and an Oscar. No other Nobel winner can claim such a trifecta, so Gore is obviously the best of the bunch. That is why it is ridiculous for us to debate the issue any further. Gore said it, I believe it, that settles it!

Gore is a professional politician, so there is no reason at all for anyone to mistrust his motives. One only has to ask if it sounds plausible for a poltician to mislead the citizenry for his own personal gain.

Just Talk
No one believes in man's contribution to Global Warming at the government level. There are many kooks, catastrophy and conspiracy believers roaming the streets of Insanityville, USA. Unfortunately, they vote and they have the numbers to make a difference. The Democrats live with George Soros in Insanityville where the Communist Party headquarters is located. Everyone who thinks Capitalism is bad either lives or vacations there. The Democrats support the Human Contribution to Global Warming only to garner the kook vote. A classic wedge issue , just like race and the other wedge issues. BTW have you noticed all the race issues, Jena 6, nooses everywhere, and Duke as we approach election season--time to reel in the Black vote. The Democrats are devoid of shame and integrity. Treat the fool to a fool's meal and he will find the bowl again, and again, and again.

I will not drink this CNN cool-aid
Scaremongering, inciting and demagoguery are all typical tactics from the liberal left designed to take power from the individual and place it firmly in the hands of big government, which aspires to more and more power, regardless of party affiliation, apparently.

Mainstream media deserves unparalled mistrust on the myth of anthropogenic, or man-made, global warming. Their use of these tactics and blatant denial of the facts that contradict this myth, beg the question - How can we trust anything the big three, or CNN tell us?

The Weather Channel
Don't forget the Weather Channel with "Dr." Heidi "Bimbo" Cullen who stated that any meteorologist that doesn't believe in global warming should have their AMS certification revoked. Oh and when Al Gore was on they introduced him as "or how we like to refer to you around here are former President Gore."


Mars
Mars is also warming.

Could it be that there are Martians driving about in Hummers with their E-brakes on?

How about a more plausible theory, like..

IT'S THE SUN STUPID!

Doesn't anyone read the papers anymore?
Ummmm last time I checked the newspapers I read that most of California is going up in smoke and that Georgia is suffering from the worst drought in its history. Atlanta is down to a 2 month supply of drinking water. Gee, ya think global warming had something to do with that? I wonder?????

Global cooling
Thank God for global warming, that must be what saved us all from certain death from global cooling....Remember that dooms day prophecy?

Conspiracy Theory.
Let's just be clear, the "hucksters" are organizations like the National Academy of Sciences and the Royal Society, our most respected scientific bodies.

But carry on with the conspiracy theory.


What should the temperature be?

The Paleocene era was 25 degrees warmer than today. Is the earth warming to its proper temperature or away from it? Until they prove what the earth’s proper temp should be, we may be messing with a move going in the right direction.

The premise of GloBULL warming is that over the past millions of years the people of the ‘70’s coincidently experienced the earth’s proper temperature. The problem is nobody has bothered to prove that.

"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed -- and hence clamorous to be led to safety -- by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary." “A plan to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule.” H.L Mencken

titaniczilla
No one is asserting that the planet is not warming; the Earth does warm and cool regularly.

What I and many others take issue with is the notion that human activity is responsible.

Here is a little perspective, the MT. Saint Helen eruption belched more CO2 into the apnosphere than the sum of all human activity since the dawn of our species.

LD
Bingo! Our unbelieving "Flat-Earthers" also try to point to the totally irrelevant fact that Al Gore coincidently stands to make millions through his "carbon credit" companies. Pathetic.

Think about it....the European Nobel committee would never allow a less than honorable man to win the Nobel Prize. Need further proof...just Google the great men Jimmy Carter and Yasar Arafat.

Gosh
"Here is a little perspective, the MT. Saint Helen eruption belched more CO2 into the apnosphere than the sum of all human activity since the dawn of our species."

Making stuff up doesn't help your case any.

Misdirection
Question: Why are the proponents of manmade global warming focusing on CO2, when that particular gas has such a miniscule effect?

Answer: You can't produce energy en mass with out
producing CO2. So if you control the production of CO2 then you control the usage of energy, if you control the usage of energy then you control the economy and every other facet if life in a modern society.

We will find a way
The reason all those predicted catastrophes did not happen is that science found a way to avoid them. You didn't even mention the study that said that if New York City kept growing, it would be hip deep in horse poo within a single generation, and that peons could never have telephones because there were not enough women in the world to be trained as operators...and that buildings could never be higher than five stories because people could not walk higher than that ... and that trains could not go more than 30 mph or people would be crushed to death by the acceleration ...

Daddy (who is Jewish) used to tell us that if the Angel Gabriel appeared and announced that next year the earth would be under six feet of water the Catholics would pray for a miracle, the Protestants would look for loopholes, and the Jews would start finding ways to live under water.

Georgia
Actually we are not in the worse drought in our history--there were drier years in the 1920s and 1930s.

And we'd have plenty of water if those idiots at the US Army Corps of Engineers weren't releasing billions of gallons a day out of Lake Lanier--the same fools that brought you Katrina.

They claim we have almost a year left--the EPD claims we have 81 days.

And why are they releasing in some cases 38 times the amount of water out of the lake than flows in it? Because of two fresh water mussels that are protected by the ESA that live downstream in Alabama and Florida--the Purple Bankclimber and the Fat Three Ridge.

And southern California is a semi-desert and its hills have burned for thousands of years. The problem is man--people building houses in places that will burn, not may burn but will burn and the state stopping all fires--so you have a build up of dry brush and then the Santa Anna Winds and then something (or someone) starts a fire and *boom* firestorm. Has nothing to do with global warming.

Oh and Georgia has been pretty much dry for the last 60 years or so. Since the 1950s only 30% of years in Georgia have been "wet."


Making stuff up
Well since Al Gore has made up things like 23 feet sealevel rises and increase in hurricanes (something no hurricane expert believes), it's only fair the other side does as well.


ignore them
Yes, the best bet would be to first ignore press releases or data from organizations that depend on grants and donations they get for making dire predictions.

The next step would be to ignore press releases or data from groups or individuals who have a political agenda. Misanthropes. Hostility towards capitalism. Consumerism. Old communists and radicals who have taken refuge in the environmental movement and pursue their utopianism through those means.

Strip those groups out.

And after that, as has already been mentioned, I would appreciate it if somebody could tell me what the "right" temperature for the Earth is.

And if the price for our advanced civilization, our food supply infrastructure, our economy, our convenience, longer and healthier lifespans, industry, and COMFORT turns out to be an increase in the world's temperature by 1 degree Celsius on average over the last 100 years, I say GOOD.

It was worth it.

Titaniczilla, how did you...
reach the utterly unfounded conclusion that the drought in GA and the wild fires in CA are caused by human induced "Global Warming"?

It's this kind of wild eyed S.W.A.G. that makes sensible people mock global warming theories.


Loyal Democrat, you forgot...
that Al Gore invented the Internet. That great scientific and humanitarian achievement gives Gore all the credibility he needs to convince me that his statements regarding global warming are 100% rock solid. All hail the great Gore. Hooray.

Max
Those lines were from me, not LD. I assumed the ridiculous comments were dripping in enough sarcasm to be obvious satire....however, I forget that it can often be extremely difficult to identify true liberal beliefs among comments intentionally made to be extremely illogical and ignorant.




Citizen Carrier
"ignore them"

I think most people are all ready on board, even the manmade global warming crowd.

This indifference can be witnessed in their refusal to sacrifice, in any substantial way, their energy/CO2 dependant life styles i.e.; gas powered personal transportation, grid supplied electric power, gas powered lawn mowers..etc

Most, not all, lack the courage of their convictions.


BobMC
Your point is well taken; I was parroting something that I heard on the radio (NPR of all places) with out verifying for my self.

How ever I did not make that up.

Titaniczilla, gee thank you for
clearing all that up. Now I know since there is a drought somewhere, that that proves global warming is caused by man. WOW, light bulb - on! Cuz,er when it's, like, warm, duh, water evaporates and stuff....

You know we had a drought here in North Texas that dried up our lakes, etc.... Now all the lakes are full again and we have had one of the coolest summers I can remember!?? I guess we have global warming to thank for that..., or the weather or something, I'll just leave it up to geniuses like you and gore to figure it all out.

Citizen Carrier
I'll tell you what the right temperature is; any other temperature than what we have right now.

Otherwise how can you have crisis?

Max
I'll take you up on the beer.....before we all sink and "Waterworld" becomes a reality :)

Citizen X
Yes, I think the global warming movement--similar to a bowel movement--has already passed it's nadir of influence.

The last Live Aid or whatever those global warming concerts were called, bombed hideously. A few countries like Britain are making tepid moves to raise taxes on air travel, but I don't see it going anywhere. Especially when stuff like that starts to damage those institutions financially.

Kyoto was a bust, with people realizing just how damaging it would be to their economies if they were really to try and do it.

Movements that depend of fear and crisis mongering just cannot sustain interest in the public they way movements based on optimism and good cheer can.

And then there is China!
So long as people could convincingly say America was the world's largets polluter (which I've always doubted), environmentalists had a cause they could really rally behind.

But now that it is China (and probably has been for longer than we think), that kind of takes the wind out the sails.

Imagine it. Liberals protesting a "progressive" totalitarian police state like China? Preposterous! Ted Turner goes over there to celebrate the anniversaries of the Communist revolution.

Expect them to saddle China with a millstone like Kyoto around their necks? Heck no! We should let them pollute more because we already enjoy the standard of living they are trying to achieve. That's the logic.

America is the greatest friend of the environment in the world. Why? Because we bankrupted the most environmentally damaging regime in human history. The Soviet Union.

We paid our dues...

Citizen Carrier
"Movements that depend of fear and crisis mongering just cannot sustain interest in the public they way movements based on optimism and good cheer can."

Well said; I think a certain level if fatigue sets in, particularly when the sky does not fall.

And when the sky is filled with private jets ferrying about the very people who demand that we sacrifice.

and here we go again
Did we all see the 21st centruy hippies calling for no more nuke(clear) power plants again?

Why in God's name would ANYBODY listen to these fools?!!

Lets just see if Algore is required to play along as his hypocrisy has no limits at all. I swear I would put him in a rubber room where he can't hurt anyone if I were king.

The monumental waste of time and resources to this AGW scam breaks my heart. All the ACTUAL good that could be done, but won't, because so many want to believe humans are a blight upon the Earth - that's just peachy.

I put Algore in with the most despised characters of all time. I do it because I know darned well he doesn't believe in AGW any more than I do. He is willing to dupe the world for his own profit. This is the big daddy scam of them all. But just like lying about everything else, which liberals have no objection to, it comes naturally. As long as it gets them one step closer to a secular one world gov't with them in charge, its A-OK with them.

It doesn't really matter what the cause is or what the consequences are. If our little liberal fantasy utopia (for the elite) is one step closer - go ahead & gas the conservatives. They have no rights, no say in gov't, no reason, no rationality. They just take up space & stand in our way. Gas them for their own good and the good of the world. Thin the heard. Right?

It's cold & rainy in Michigan today. Thats AGW right? Freakin' liberal worthless losers. If I had a daughter, not one of you progressive cretins would come within a mile of her.

China
The PRC isn't a totalitarian police state--it is an authoritarian, one-party state. They are not the same--as for China today think Taiwan circa 1971 or South Korea 1980.

And they can't put Kyoto around China's neck because it would never accept it and China is rapidly doing as much environmental damage as the Soviets did. Vast areas of the North China plain are turning to desert and famous river after famous river from Chinese history are becoming dry washes. The bodies of some rivers still flowing are so toxic that no human contact at all with it is allowed.

Fuzzy
Such is the fallacy of their argument.
We must reduce our carbon foot print! (screaming)
OK let’s build nuclear power plants.
No nukes, no nukes! (chanting)

So the absurdity of their argument is exposed; when presented with a clean alternative the GW crowd rejects this out of hand. Because of the POSSIBILITY of LOCAL environmental damage, as opposed to the CERTAINTY of GLOBAL environmental Armageddon. (If you believe All Gore)

When Al Gore and Jimmy Carter...

Stand in Beijing's town square... and condemn the Chinese government... I'll open my ears.

But, to call America the Devil... is Bull!

I think we need a China 1st policy... Before anyone is allowed to condemn our nation, they must Condemn China... In China.

Yes Al, you may take your private jet :)

See you, "if" you get back.

Citizen X
You are approved to date my daughter (if I had one & if you date females).

Buchan is both right and wrong
Buchanan is wrong when he pooh-poohs global warming. Imagine a greenhouse with a 13 foot (4000 millimeter) high ceiling with a 1 millimeter mirror finish on top (i.e., 250 ppm, 1750 levels of CO2). Now imagine the same greenhouse but with only a 7 foot (2,500 millimeter, i.e., 400 ppm, current level of CO2) high ceiling with the same 1 millimeter mirror finish. It doesn't require a rocket scientist to realize that the 7 foot high greenhouse will be warmer than the 13 foot greenhouse, especially at surface level.

But Buchanan is absolutely right and in his usual top form when it comes to explaining how this crisis is being exploited by internationalists "frightening Americans into transferring sovereignty, power and wealth to a global political elite that claims it alone understands the crisis and it alone can save us from impending disaster."

Personal self-restraint and individual action is the proper solution to global warming - not the invention of some new hegemonic uberpower to rule us all.

Patrick
You are imagining a glass barier in the atmosphere.

Or am I imagining that it isn't as warm as 1934?

Fuzzy
Well, a 1 mm barrier in the atmosphere. Could be plastic, glass or (if gravity permitted) carbon dioxide.

The reason for stating 1 mm is that atmospheric carbon dioxide in 1750 was 250 parts per million (or 1 part in 4000) and today is 400 parts per million (or 1 part in 2500).

The point for purpose of this example is that there is a 1 mm "something" that acts as a 1-way mirror, letting sunlight in and obstructing its escape.

It's common sense that moving the 1-way mirror closer to the surface will result in more surface heat than moving it away would. And that's the equivalent of increasing the atmospheric concentration of CO2. The only difference is that the 1-way mirror is distributed in the form of particles throughout the 4000 mm or 2500 mm, rather than a specific layer on top. Either way, surface heating increases.

Denying that global warming is taking place by default puts the Gore internationalists in charge of the agenda for its solution - and you know what THAT means.

It's important that conservatives act to prevent this issue from being kept in the hands of those who would end any remaining constitutional principles and strip us of all our remaining rights. The way to do this is emphasizing the role individuals have to play while attacking any grand plan for a globalist resolution.

Listen to the Democrats...

How do the Democrats stop "Global Warming"?

* Ban Guns
* Ban Talk Radio
* Ban God
* Ban Marriage
* Ban all Cars
* Ban Running Water
* Ban Marines
* Ban Flags (except white)
* Ban Borders

And of course, make abortion mandatory.

So, who is voting for Satan ?

Fuzzy
"Or am I imagining that it isn't as warm as 1934?"

In the US, it isn't. Worldwide, it is.

Patrick
I could be just imagining this, but it seems like the conservative attitude towards global warming is changing from "It's not happening," or "Humans aren't causing it." to, "It won't be that bad." and "We can't allow the solution to be worse than the problem."

30 years ago
it was a new ice age--there's an In Search of with Leonard Nemoy floating around from 1978 on the new ice age

it was population bomb--we'd all be starving by 2000-BUT we got the green revolution instead and no disaster

it was the end of oil production; we'd be oil dry by the 21st C--didn't happen either, and not because of ethanol

GW'ers want to dictate to you what energy you can use and when you can use it. Then they will also tax it, add fees to it , and also raise surcharges on it.

The libs. and progressives know best and want the US to be a sick sister to Sweden and/or Finland, which have universal healthcare and are famous for winning WW I and II, inventing Microsoft, developing antibiotics, and launching space travel--wait, that those last 4 were us.

Actually, what is it that makes Sweden or Finland worth imitating?

And, as I just had dnner with 20 of them in DC, these people are slathering for Hillary's win so she'll hire them and they can use our tax payers' monies to turn the US into something no one living today would recognize.

Frey
To me, the question of whether humans are causing global warming is largely a non-issue. I view it as a red herring. The point is that carbon dioxide levels are up and they should have the effect of increasing surface warming.

And Buchanan is right that global warming is not an unmitigated evil. To the extent that it is, individual preparations need to be put in place. For example, people should move out of low-lying coastal areas not because some fuhrer orders them to, but because they want to do so as it is in their best personal interest.

So you see, the important thing is what action to take about it. If the solution is universal enslavement under a global dictatorship on the pretext of saving us all from global warming, then the solution is indeed worse than the problem.

Individuals - not corporate or governmental power or cringing international treaties that impose penalties on some and none on others - must be the solution.

Make 'em a bet...
Bet anyone who falls for this man-made global warming hysteria a sizable chunk of money - their own money - that their doomsday predictions will come true and see how many take that bet.

Would Gore put up his Leer jet or one of his expansive, energy-gobbling mansions that his computer models have predicted the future? Would he put up a fiddle of gold and your soul ...

And it's a no-win situation for us global warming heathens. If we're under water in several years, they say, "I told you so." If we're wearing our parkas and burning wood furniture (or tax code books in our public library), they'll say, "We stopped global warming by our efforts alone."

Fuzzy
It's not JUST that 1934 and a few other years in the 30s were hotter than anything we've had since, it is that in between then and NOW these same kooks argued that the world was getting colder.

But folks, I'm here to tell you how to make global warming disappear.

No, not actually stop getting warmer, but to make the issue disappear.

Elect a Democrat as President.

Electing Democrats makes all sorts of problems disappear from the mainstream media's radar. For example, upon electing Clinton the American people were no longer bombarded with news about the disappearing Brazilian rain forests.

That reporting was halted almost as if a light switch had been turned off on January 20, 1993.

Clinton also singlehandedly ended the plight of the homeless upon swearing in, for the media stopped reporting on that too. Lexus Nexus don't lie!

But be warned! A Democrat LEAVING office creates new problems that nobody was aware of while they were in office. For example, upon Clinton leaving office we learned that our nation's drinking water had unacceptable levels of arsenic in it. This only came to light in the final remaining hours of Clinton's administration.

All Useful Idiots of Chicom
Kyoto Protocol was devised by Maurice Strong, a darling of Communist China with history back to when Mao first called America "paper tiger" - remember Ann Loise Strong?

dogjudge
Crust shifting is to continetal drift what global warming is to climate change. The climate has always changed, always will. The continents will drift, the crust will shift. We can do nothing about either.

Deaf Ears
The problem is not that the science is bogus. The problem is that the liberals have been right about a good many things on the environment and regardless of the issue, CONSERVATIVES HAVE ALWAYS OPPOSED THEM.

When have the environmentalists, a synonym for liberal, ever banded together with conservatives? When have the conservatives ever given two hoots and a holler about the environment?

From recycling to labeling foods, the liberals have gotten credit for taking responsibility for the environment and its impact on health because they have lead the charge.

So, no big surprise to anyone that liberals are on the side of global warming and conservatives are against it. That's just the politics of environmentalism. It's just yet another environmental issue that conservatives are against.

To win the publics ear with respect to the environment, the Republicans would first have to have some environmental credentials in the publics mind. None exists. What, a business wants to dump toxic waste in your drinking water? It will most surely be a liberal that protests it and a conservative that will counter the liberal claiming environmental protection will cost jobs and hurt business.

Liberals can go unchallenged with respect to the environment precisely because conservatives are always seen as being on the side of big business and monied interests. Conservatives love to drink polluted water and eat contaminated food.

Liberals have carte blanch with respect to the environment because conservatives have no bona fides. Conservatives are seen as NEVER caring about the environment, always opposing any environmental issue.

Until conservatives can convince the public they care about the environment, all the merited criticism of liberals will be ignored.


Standard of evidence
"While modest warming has taken place, there is no conclusive evidence human beings are responsible, no conclusive evidence Earth's temperature is rising dangerously or will reach intolerable levels and no conclusive evidence that warming will do more harm than good."

How come the U.S. didn't need "conclusive evidence" of Iraq's Weapons of Mass Destruction before launching the invasion of Iraq?

Right now, there is a lot of talk about military action against Iran to stop them from acquiring nuclear weapons--even though, as far as I know, the evidence that they are about to have a nuclear weapon any time soon is far from "conclusive" as well.

Why is it that when evaluating a foreign strategic threat, we take strong action without conclusive evidence; but with global warming, we demand conclusive evidence before taking any actions whatsoever?

Drivebyposting
"When have the conservatives ever given two hoots and a holler about the environment?"

You mean other than when Richard Nixon founded the Environmental Protection Agency?

Or G.H.W. Bush's executive order to reduce car emissions?

How about Ducks Unlimited? Heard of those guys? Lots of hunters and sportsman there. Not too many metrosexual guys driving around in Volvos listening to R.E.M.

http://www.ducks.org/Hunting/HuntingHomePage/130/HuntersDoM oreForWildlife.html

As you see there, plenty of evidence hunters contribute more to conservationism than your average long-haired guy who thinks carrying a sign or adding a bumper sticker really accomplishes something.

http://www.dnr.state.md.us/centennial/Hunters_and_Conservat ion.asp

There you'll see that an estimated $185 million a year for forestry conservation comes from the fees hunters pay for liscenses and tags. So they contribute to conservationism AND help to keep the deer populations down to manageable levels.

Due to the Pittman-Robertson Act of 1937, there is a 11% tax on the purchase of all sporting arms, ammunition and archery equipment. There is a a 10% tax on handgun purchases. That revenue is directly used for the selection, restoration, rehabilitation and improvement of wildlife habitat, wildlife management research, and the distribution of information produced by the projects.

Judging from the amount of rifles, pistols and ammuntion that I own, I suspect that I have contributed far more to the environment than you have! And I did it gladly.

Danger Will Robinson!
I enjoy the fact that people who are not weathermen, do not know any weathermen, are not familiars of weathermen (who, by the by, cannot accurately predict the weather beyond four hours ahead) try and tell me that the future is rife with dangers of my own making.
When some volcano out in the nether parts of the world cranks out more greenhouse gas in four days than industrial man's entire career (not to mention chlorine gas, sulfur dioxide, bla bla bla), I am comforted.
When the insignificant creature called Man looks around and sees the world changing around him, and perplexes at the changes (eyes agog, jaw agape, arms akimbo), and figures it's all his fault; I smile inside.
This rock has seen the birth of the Solar System, the Cambrian explosion of life, immense eras of time when dinosaurs ruled the earth. Then the rise of the nattering nabob who actually thinks that the cycles of the spheres themselves will be altered by his comings and goings.
Bosh and Nonsense!
Man's Hubris never ceases to amaze.

Once again,
liberals are absent from this post. I'd like to think it's because they have the common sense to know when they don't have an argument and they probably do realize that, but I'll bet they will still support GW propaganda anyway.

To Frey
In the interests of fuller disclosure:

About Germany and Kyoto:
http://www.numberwatch.co.uk/german_kyoto_protocol_hoax.htm
http://www.planetark.com/dailynewsstory.cfm/newsid/37033/st ory.htm
http://www.commondreams.org/news2006/0623-04.htm
http://www.classicalvalues.com/archives/2007/05/kyoto_destr oyin.html

I'll let others look at Sweden, UK and France. I note that France is trying to prop up its increasingly noncompetetive economy with economic sin-taxes:
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/14/world/europe/14france.htm l


I also note that you pointedly fail to talk about Canada's experience with Kyoto:
http://www.canada.com/topics/news/story.html?id=99b95325-cf 52-45a9-908d-a9d9eb39fccc
http://www.planetark.com/dailynewsstory.cfm/newsid/43885/st ory.htm
http://www.peaktalk.com/archives/002122.php
http://www.thestar.com/article/260166

And let's finish up with some general words about Europe:
http://www.tni.org/detail_page.phtml?act_id=17264&username= guest@tni.org&password=9999&publish=Y
http://www.openeurope.org.uk/media-centre/pressrelease.aspx ?pressreleaseid=52
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2007/jun2007/carb-j11.shtml
http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/financialpost/comment/st ory.html?id=96dc23c8-33e2-45c4-bf6a-14aba852d764
http://www.europe-solidaire.org/spip.php?article4744

Perhaps matters aren't so rosy as you paint them, neighbor.


Dunno why
all my links didn't turn out right. Guess I'm computer illiterate.

DRIVEby
I thought your post was interesting. One of the things that has puzzled me from the beginning is why this issue has deteriorated into a knee-jerk partisan one. It would seem that if there is even the remotest possiblity that we are in for trouble everybody would want to know more about it and do what is necessary, if anything, to deal with it. But I think that what will probably happen is what happened in Iraq - at some point conservatives will say, OK, it was true, so what, we were right to act as if it weren't true because we/regood americans.

Today I read the news story that the newest report published by the CDC human on health issues related to global warming were redacted by over 75% by the administration, because it was too depressing.

what I want to know is, where is the reliable science that supports GW as some kind of myth? And please don't give me some loose cannon fogey who sits in his attic and pops theories 0 where are the body of scientists who explain the position of gW disbeleivers?

It seems there are two issues: one, whether the planet is heating up and isgoing to have major consequences for
us in terms of population migrations, a dramatic shift in natural populations like birds, water animals, etc., and whether it will take a serious toll among certain like children, the elderly, etc.


Tail2long
Don't get me wrong, I'm not a cheerleader for Kyoto. All I'm saying is that there are a few nations that have been able to make it work, effectively and economically. So are they better or smarter than us, or just luckier? Buchanan is said that the cutting of emissions even by the relatively small amounts mandated by Kyoto "could not be done without inducing a new Depression and reducing the standard of living of the American people." Well, England, Sweden, France, and Germany all did that, and no depression has taken place yet. If Buchanan wants me to believe that, he's got to prove it, and he's got no proof coming out of Europe.

Pat B.
I haven't always agreed with you, but on this article, I am in total agreement. Best one yet.

Cold Ages
Just off the top of my head, I can think of three cold ages in European history. The 1300s had colder temperatures than the previous few centruies and a few years of famine. The 1800s had a cold epoch, partly due to Krakatoa exploding. Most famous is the Great Ice Age of about 15000 years ago. Industrialization certainly didn't cause any of these cold ages of European history.
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