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Tuesday, August 21, 2007
Pat Buchanan :: Townhall.com Columnist
The Color of Crime
by Pat Buchanan
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The execution-style murder of three African-American college students in Newark, N.J., forced to kneel and shot in the head -- allegedly by an illegal alien from Peru who was out on bail for the serial rape of a 5-year-old -- has the makings of a Willie Horton issue in 2008.

Newark, like New York, is a "sanctuary city," where cops are not to ask criminal suspects if they are in the country legally. Mitt Romney has been hammering Rudy Giuliani on the issue, trashing his tough-cop resume by painting the mayor as den mother of the Big Apple's playpen for illegal aliens.

The arrest of Jose Carranza in that Newark massacre, amid reports he had Hispanic accomplices and the murders may have been part of a gang initiation, has also elevated the issue of the black-brown war raging in U.S. big cities.

In the Aug. 10 Washington Post story that covered the Carranza arrest, the same page had two related articles. One was headlined, "Study: Almost Half of Murder Victims Black," the other, "Slaying of Popular Editor Stuns Blacks in Oakland."

The second headline reveals an ideological slant. One would assume that everyone in Oakland was stunned by the daylight execution of African-American editor Chauncey Bailey, allegedly by a teenage foot soldier at Your Black Muslim Bakery, which Bailey was investigating.

At Bailey's funeral, a mourner held up a sign reading, "Stop Black on Black Violence." That was the subject of the second Post story.

"Nearly half the people murdered in the United States are black," declared the opening paragraph, "part of a persistent pattern in which African Americans are disproportionately victimized by violent crime, according to a new Justice Department study."

Among other conclusions reported by the Post:

-- Blacks are more likely than whites or Hispanics to be victims of crime.

-- Blacks are more likely than any other group to be victims of "serious violent crime," such as rape, assault and robbery.

-- Blacks were more than twice as likely as whites to be confronted with a firearm during a crime.

"Overall, the new Justice findings jibe with previous studies," said the Post. "For example, a review of FBI data from 2004 by the Violence Policy Center, a liberal-leaning group that campaigns for stricter gun control laws, found that blacks accounted for about half of the nation's murder victims that year."

"Black victimization is a real problem, and it's often black on black," said David Harris, a law professor at the University of Toledo who studies crime statistics.

"Often"? Correction, Harris. As the Post reports and Justice concedes, in more than nine out of 10 cases, black victims are murdered by fellow blacks.

Utterly absent from the Post story and Justice Department stats is anything about white victims of crime. Not a word. Do white folks not count, though they are two-thirds of the population?

Yet, in "The Color of Crime: Race, Crime and Justice in America," produced by the "right-leaning" New Century Foundation in 2005, using the same FBI and Justice surveys, startling facts emerge:

-- "Blacks commit more violent crime against whites than against other blacks." Forty-five percent of the victims of violent crime by blacks are white folks, 43 percent are black, 10 percent are Hispanic.

-- Blacks are seven times as likely as people of other races to commit murder, eight times more likely to commit robbery and three times more likely to use a gun in a crime.

-- "Blacks are an estimated 39 times more likely to commit violent crime against a white person than vice versa, and 136 times more likely to commit robbery." (If decent black folks have trouble hailing a cab, and they do, these numbers may help explain it.)

-- Black-on-white rape is 115 times more common than the reverse. Even the two most famous sexual assaults by white men on black women in the last two decades -- the Tawana Brawley and Duke rape cases -- turned out to be hoaxes.

What do these statistics tell us? A message the Post will not report. The real repository of racism in America -- manifest in violent interracial assault, rape and murder -- is to be found not in the white community, but the African-American community. In almost all interracial attacks, whites are the victims, not the victimizers.

Why does the Post not report such statistics? My guess: Because the stats would shatter the Post's cultivated image of America as a land where white racism is the great lurking malevolent monster. Stories that conform to the image get play. Stories that contradict it are buried.

But, if the Bush Justice Department is doing in-depth studies on black victims of crime and who is responsible, why not one on the victimization of Americans of all colors and who is responsible?

Or is that information we ought not know, and news not fit to print?

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About The Author
Pat Buchanan is a founding editor of The American Conservative magazine, and the author of many books including State of Emergency: The Third World Invasion and Conquest of America .
 
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Why, Why I am surprised, aren't you?
If reading about the dangers of terrorists attacks bothers you, stop reading! It's mass
denial. If we didn't report it, it just didn't happen. Like Scarlet, "if I think about that, I will go crazy; i'll think about it tomorrow".

The media didn't report it and sure 'nuff, to
99% of the country, it didn't happen so not being made aware, the people will think differently and take different actions or rather
charge in the wrong direction. This is a form of
suttle mind control. And whats in it for them?
Some further their agenda while others are releived to just "not go there". "Only whites can be racists" while the first words black children learn are "Whitey" and all the epithets
the "Hood" has to offer. Is the Hood a benevolent
society of its own?

I see where the murders in California this year
are already approaching 600. 12% of the population is doing half the killing? Lets think about that tomorrow and the media? Don't think about it at all.

Yes, but let's have no foolishness
It's not because of the color of their skins. It's because of the characteristics of their community.
Why does the black community turn out a disproportionate number of criminals?
Well, poverty is not a sufficient explanation: not all 'economically-disadvantaged' groups in America show this sort of criminality.

The shame of a nation
It is so disarming the angst that is stoked so often by media,Jessie,Al and company.
That constant onslaught of failure and misery that they preach is a consistant reminder of futility of trying to be honorable, get a job sweeping and watch your peers pooh pooh the honest effort in contributing something to your lifes work it has to begin somewhere but to be laugh to scorn by your peers is unbearable I think.Without both parents giving strength and wisdom to a child in such formidible surroundings where meanness is a virtue.

When it rains you either come out of it or get used too it where you don't get phased by it.
You find out quick you either take or get taken.
To a child it is easy to fall prey to the street life and ridicule the smart guys for being better cause they threaten the mediocrity your told you live in by all those around you.

It is easy when their is no other voices to challenge the nay sayers

Unspeakable truths
One defies the piety that "we're all the same" at one's social and political peril. Yet we're not all the same, we never have been, and attempts to efface our differences have been the cause of great harm.

This nation is built on the principles of freedom and justice. One of the principles of justice is equality before the law. It must be upheld. Part of the obligation that imposes upon us is to be unsparing of the violent and vicious regardless of which protected minority they might belong to. But this has hardly been the case in post-World War II America.

And?
What is your point, Pat? The issue of race became a political cause in the fifties. It has not yet been milked for all it is worth. What if we looked at the same data with an eye toward social status, income or whether or not they even had jobs.

Financially comfortable people commit fewer crimes. People with job commit fewer crimes. Well educated people commit fewer crimes. And on and on. The failure to get these people educated lies with the people who control education. No one else. It is not a racial issue except when made one. Get a life.

Here is the error
*The failure to GET these people educated*

Education is not something you can inject into an unwilling body, like a polio vaccine or a hit of heroin. Education is something OTHER PEOPLE HAVE TO PUT INTO THEMSELVES. Just take a look around you and see the number of people holding degrees from prestigious schools of every kind and colour and listen to the invincible stupidity rolling out of their mouths with every word they speak.

The cess pool that was New Orleans revealed what the true problems are in TheBlackCommunity, just the same as the tearing down of water soaked walls revealed the seething of cockroaches within. Someone needs to do a longitudinal study of those families and their children who were removed from that cess pool and placed or placed themselves into normal middle-class or working class neighbourhoods with people who work for a living and play by the rules. There, I predict, you will find out what *needs* to be done to civilize this festing garbage heap of savagery. Just exactly the same thing that will solve the problems of the Indians on the Reserves, and it is one word that Ronald Reagan articulated many years ago.

That word is:

ASSIMILATE.

"Failure to get these people educated?"
Hustler,

You write: "The failure to get these people educated lies with the people who control education. No one else. It is not a racial issue except when made one. Get a life."

Way to advocate for personal responsibility! It's attitudes like yours that keeps the black community wallowing in victimhood and malaise. As long as it's someone else's responsibility to "get them educated," get them jobs, etc, nothing will change. They've been given a much-deserved head start for decades. It's up to them to take it. Personally responsibility empowers!

Thank God we've got people like Star Parker and Thomas Sowell who see things differently than Hustler. Would that their voices were more far-reaching.

Hustler,
you are exactly the problem. It's called PC.
I think it's like some other social diseases that do not have a cure.
And what's worse, people like me are always astounded by that logic, always!

Failure to get them educated
one else!!. It is not a racial issue except when made one" Once again some else is responsible and not the perpetrator. Does anyone think that our educators actually encourage people to quit and do poorly in school, I think not, To say that poverty is the root of crime is absurd. The vast majority of crime is committed by a minority of the population..

Is education the answer yes. But that education must be something that students want and need, not just one they may like.. Many of these crimes are committed by blacks against a black community, the perpetrators and victims alike were educated in black schools in the inner cities. No it is not a race problem but an attitude problem. The world owes me, I am a poor victim of my environment. To quote Dickens “Bah Hum Bug”. Do I have a solution, no, but I do know that personal responsibility for ones awn actions, regardless of one economic status is at the heart of the solution, sort a poor victim mentality for the perpetrator.

AudiR10
I see that you beat me to the bunch with regards to Hustler. I salute you, Madam!

Incidentally, I'm a new responder on Townhall. (I've been reading it for years, but I'm a Mac user, and TH has just caught up with the technology that allows me to weigh in!) After our little "exchange" about moms in the workplace yesterday, I clicked onto your blog. Thoroughly enjoyed it! Keep the interesting opinions coming...

Black crime stats
Pat I knew of similar stats when I was in College 30 years ago. Anthropologists have known this for a long time. It seems it is much worse today. These facts are hidden by the Liberal Media, because they don't fit into their Agenda. Thanks for bring out the truth!!! Grandmaster Ro

inner city schools
If the innercity schools arent getting it done, not totally their fault (i agree with the personal responsibility comments) lets give them vouchers to go to private schools. Oh thats right black folks seem to vote overwealmingly democratic and the teachers union isnt going to let that happen.

It's the Family
The black community has become a permanent underclass that defies simple solutions. Freedom did not lead to assimilation, rather, it led to the disintegration of the black family whose life had previously been integrated with their churches which had imbued them with morality and ethics, even in the face of racism. It's an American tragedy, as the mentality of victimization and separation has over-ridden their interest in assimilation and the opportunities offered by freedom. The children of the 50's and 60's parents who led the Civil Rights movement were lost - and their children remain lost. Education is available to most - but they must respect and want that education. However, many reject it because they reject the idea that it is an avenue to a better life.

Demagogues, like Jackson, take advantage of this, but studiously ignore the results, and offer no solution.

Whites cannot do for blacks what they are not willing to do for themselves. You cannot force alcoholics to give up alcohol until they first admit they have a problem, and we cannot deal with the issues in the black community until that community accepts that it has a problem.

Inner city schools have always existed and have always had a disproportionate number of the poor. Previous groups managed to use those schools to pull themselves up, which should tell us that this is not just an issue of education.

This is an issue of family - and the lack of it. Jim Brown, who mentors football athletes has often commented that the problems he constantly deals with derive from the fact that the athletes have "no male role models". As such, they don't know how to act.

Sad.

Excellent article by Buchanan
Most Americans who have any sense of reality understand black assaults on whites are far more numerous than white assaults on blacks... statistically and probably in total numbers.

And, as Buchanan asserts, the elites who control academia, media, hollywood and even government, are loath to venture into this area; it does not comport with their mindset( i.e., their politically correct predispositions prevent them from even discussing this incendiary issue).

Despite the aversion, bordering on censorship, of elites to delve into this issue, data on this subject is available, even now, for those who are sufficiently motivated. DOJ stats, and a few number of books(not many), along with information from the internet, are among the sources.

Black on Black Crime
People who speak only of black on black crime are racists. It's as if they are saying, "We want to stop black on black crime, but we don't care about balck on white crime. Whites are 8 times more likely to be the victim of a violent crime committed by a black person than a black person suffering a violent crime at the hands of a white person. The real point should be stopping violent crime period.

NOT SO
before I went to school (I was "uneducated", right?) - I knew very well that killing is BAD....
It is all in teachings - but our schools can't teach
ETHICS, WHEN BUSY WITH homosex agenda or learning using the condoms.

P.S. None of my Catholic friends ever commited a murder.

Poverty is not the cause
Having visited extremely poor foreign countries convinces me that it is not poverty that causes crime within the community. It is the culture - it is the willingness to make excuses for the criminal and excuse the crime. Show me a community that accepts one member abusing another (even murder) and I will show you a community where crime abounds. Crime only compounds the problems of poverty.

Escaping from poverty requires a place to go - something many of those foreign countries lack. In America there is a place to go. There must be only the willingness to break out.

The Unmentionable
Violent crime today is dominated by blacks and Hispanics. White violent crime rates are not much different than those of any other Western society. Why the chaos that has occurred since the 60s when black crime skyrocketed? As politically incorrect as it seems, a major reason was the end of segregation. During the era of segregation, blacks were not as likely to commit crimes due to a fear of the law. That fear is largely gone now. So millions of people will experience violent crime instead and black people will be the most frequent victims.

Libs supress or restrict ANY speech that
...doesn't comform to their preconceived ideas.

They would call Pat's recitation of FACT Racist Hate Speech.

this data is published year
The Bureau of Justice Statistics, a division of the US Justice Department, publishes this data, every year.

The material is well known by academics, criminologists, sociologists and others who follow crime closely.

It is too bad that the Buchanan article material isn't broadly published by the general media. Citizens should be aware of what is going on.

In Canada
In Canada, Pat's column would probably be defined as hate speech. Woe.

Everyone
So Pat quotes the "right-leaning" New Century Foundation.

How about the racist "right-leaning" New Century Foundation. This is a racist group, no doubt about it.

Here are some links on this organization and this report:

http://www.adl.org/learn/ext_us/amren.asp?LEARN_Cat=Extremism&LEARN_SubCat=Extremism_in_America&xpicked=3&item=amren

http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intelreport/article.jsp?aid=255

http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intelreport/article.jsp?sid=370

For Pat to quote from this group is such a slap in the face. And for some posters not to question these "facts" or this group is truly insulting to me.

Coloring Crime pt.1
This report was originally titled "The Color of Crime: Race, Crime and Violence in America " and was first published in 1999. Here is a article from the SPLC on it:

Coloring Crime
A booklet that claims to prove that whites are overwhelmingly victimized by blacks — a hot item among neo-Confederates — is based on poor research and faulty analysis

Around the nation, white supremacists and their fellow travelers are brandishing copies of a 1999 booklet that purports to show that whites have every reason to be terrified of blacks. For people from former Klansman David Duke to an array of neo-Confederates, The Color of Crime: Race, Crime and Violence in America has become a kind of Bible that shows them that they were right all along.

Sponsored by the New Century Foundation, an organ of white separatist author Jared Taylor, The Color of Crime is being circulated in hard copy and via the Web site of Taylor's magazine American Renaissance.

This dubious report, in slightly modified form, also has appeared in the Journal of Social, Political and Economic Studies, a periodical that is home to the writings of many "intellectuals" whose views about race are similar to Taylor's.

In this latter publication, Taylor's co-author is Glayde Whitney, a Florida professor who recently wrote a positively glowing introduction to Duke's racist and anti-Semitic autobiography.


Coloring Crime pt.2
Based on a cursory examination of 1994 data about interracial crimes between whites and blacks — less than a sixth of all crimes committed that year — Taylor comes to a series of wh

at he describes as "startling conclusions" about black criminality. Blacks, he claims, are vastly more likely to attack whites than vice versa and, in fact, are far more prone to criminality in general. The reason, Taylor suggests amidst a blizzard of misleading statistics, is their blackness — something about black genes, or perhaps black culture, that endows African-Americans with a natural proclivity to criminality.

Mistaking Poverty for Race
But Taylor is plainly, demonstrably wrong.

Taylor uses an incredibly simplistic analytical method that flatly ignores the fundamental conclusion of decades of serious criminology: Crime is intimately related to poverty. In fact, when multivariate statistical methods such as regression analysis are used, study after study has shown that race has little, if any, predictive power.

This basic fact is so well understood among scholars of criminal justice that the preface to Minnesota's official crime data reports carries this caveat: "Racial and ethnic data must be treated with caution. ... Existing research on crime has generally shown that racial or ethnic identity is not predictive of criminal behavior with data which has been controlled for social and economic factors."

When more sophisticated methodology is employed, socioeconomic factors including poverty, education, social status and urban residence account far better for criminal behavior than race. Above all, income counts.

It is precisely because being black in America is closely correlated with being poor, suffering from high unemployment and having low levels of education that the black community has relatively high crime rates.


Coloring Crime pt.3
In 1994, the same year that Taylor's data comes from, the poverty rate among blacks was three times that of whites. In addition, nearly 40 percent of black children grew up in poverty.

So while it is true, for instance, that blacks rob whites far more than vice versa, that is hardly a surprise — whites, after all, own nearly 10 times the wealth that blacks do on average. They also own far more businesses. Thus, it is only natural that any rational robber would select whites over blacks as victims.

It would truly have been a "startling conclusion" if the facts had shown that whites attacked blacks more than the other way around. That poor people are more prone to criminality at the expense of the wealthy is utterly unsurprising.

Selection Bias and Reality
Taylor's decision to simply ignore these well-documented criminological findings is not his report's only flaw. Another major error — a cardinal sin in the science of statistics — is "selection bias." Although Taylor wants crime patterns to be explained by the mere presence of black people, only a contorted analysis based on a small subset of crime data is able to produce such "evidence."

Selection bias may best be understood by example. Say a researcher wants to identify the leading causes of death, then decides to answer that question by examining data on drowning deaths — even though drowning accounts for only a small percentage of all deaths.

By looking only at drowning, the researcher might conclude that children are at very high risk of this type of death and that swimming in pools is the highest-risk activity one could engage in.


Coloring Crime pt.4
Ignored in this analysis would be the impact of disease and traffic accidents, for instance, which rank far higher as causes of death in the general population than drowning. Similarly, by concentrating only on interracial crime, Jared Taylor paints a severely distorted picture of crime and victimization patterns in the United States today.

What Taylor actually does is consider only a subset of data on crime — statistics on interracial crimes between blacks and whites from the National Crime Victimization Survey (NCVS).

For crimes of violence — the crimes Taylor focuses on — that data covers just 16 percent of the crimes committed in 1994. The result is a skewed view of the impact of race on crime that suggests that whites ought to be terrified of blacks who, in Taylor's view, present a serious threat to society.

Missing the Forest for the Trees
But this analysis completely overlooks the larger — and far more scientifically defensible — pattern in the data: Most crime is intra-racial (black-on-black and white-on-white), not interracial.

In fact, the NCVS data show that 73 percent of white violent crime victims were attacked by whites, and 80 percent of black victims were targeted by blacks. This pattern is even clearer in the category of murder.

According to a 1997 government report, 94 percent of black murder victims, as well as 85 percent of white murder victims, were slain by members of their own race. Thus, the larger reality, that danger comes mainly from one's own race, is utterly ignored by Taylor, who for reasons of his own is interested only in interracial crime.

So while it is true that blacks victimize whites in interracial violent crime more than vice versa, that is, for the reasons described above, no surprise.


Coloring Crime pt.5
As the authors of a recent book, The Color of Justice: Race, Ethnicity and Crime in America, point out: "Some researchers have challenged the assertion that crime is predominantly intra-racial, pointing to the fact that a white person has a greater likelihood of being victimized by an African American offender than an African American has of being victimized by a white offender.

Although this is true, it does not logically challenge the assertion that crime is predominantly an intra-racial event. Remember the NCVS reveals that the typical offender is white."

Throughout the report, Taylor makes similar errors in analysis. Another instructive example is his treatment of interracial hate crime.


Misinterpreting Hate Crimes
Taylor looks to statistics on hate crime to make the point that blacks are far more likely to attack whites for racial reasons than the other way around — even though, as Taylor himself acknowledges, hate crime statistics are widely known to be seriously flawed because of reporting errors.
Through a combination of strange methodology and mathematical miscalculation, he ends up overstating his case.

First, Taylor excludes hate crimes based on religion, sexual orientation and disability. Then, using the remaining motivation categories of race and ethnicity, he says that 63 percent of these crimes were committed by whites, less than their 72 percent proportion of the population would suggest; and 19 percent were the work of blacks, even though blacks account for only 12 percent of Americans.

Thus, Taylor concludes, blacks are more likely to commit hate crimes while whites are less so.


Coloring Crime pt.6
These numbers are deceptive. If one looks at all hate crimes and all ethnic groups, the data show that whites are responsible for 75 percent of all hate crimes — higher than their proportion in the population — while the black rate remains at 19 percent.

Corrected for population, these numbers mean that blacks are 1.37 times more likely to commit hate crimes than all other races combined — a far cry from the 1.99 rate that Taylor advances. Whites, too, commit more hate crimes than all other races combined, but only slightly more so.

This type of exaggeration is typical of the poor methodology Taylor employs in his analysis.

Taylor also asserts that "millions of ordinary interracial crimes" should really be considered hate crimes — an insupportable conclusion. Hate crimes are not simply crimes committed between persons of different races.

They are crimes that are motivated by the race, ethnicity, religion, sexual orientation or other group characteristic of the victim. A black man's robbery of a store owned by a white businessman is not a hate crime unless the offender, motivated by animus toward whites, chose the store simply because the owner was white.

Racial Profiling Defended
Ultimately, Taylor's article concludes blacks are so much more likely to commit crimes than whites — "blacks are as much more violent than whites as men are more violent than women" — that police officers are justified in stopping them more often as they drive.

It's just good police work, Taylor argues, to check up on members of such a crime-prone race. Of course, using this logic, police should routinely stop men under the age of 35; those whose license plates indicate they come from high-crime states; and anyone in a downtown area.

Coloring Crime pt.7
Quite apart from the glaring Constitutional violations involved in such a practice, Taylor is simply wrong about the usefulness of racial profiling. A study of profiling released by the nonpartisan U.S. General Accounting Office earlier this year shows that stopping individuals based on race, gender or state of origin does not increase the likelihood of discovering contraband or illegal activities.

That is because most members of minority communities — just like most young people, most whites, most males and most people overall — are law-abiding citizens.

This fact has been accepted by major law enforcement agencies around the country. The National Association of Police Organizations, for instance, opposes the practice. So does the International Association of Police Chiefs.

Failing the Test
In the end, it is simply poor analysis to claim that one factor is responsible for a phenomenon as complex as crime. Researchers have been exploring the causes of crime for decades, and there is wide agreement that there is no answer as monolithic as that which Taylor offers: race, and specifically the black race.

Although it is essential to respond to the arguments advanced in The Color of Crime, it is equally important to remember the politics of the man who produced it. Taylor is the editor of American Renaissance, a magazine that focuses on dubious theories about the relationship between race, IQ, sexuality and crime.

He recently appeared at the National Press Club with three other "researchers" to hawk the idea that crime is highest among blacks worldwide, and that that is correlated to their allegedly smaller brains. (These ideas are roundly dismissed by mainstream researchers.)

Coloring Crime pt.8
One of Taylor's co-presenters was J. Phillippe Rushton, a college professor who has posited an inverse relationship between brain and "p-enis" size.

Clearly, Jared Taylor's goal is to offer an "academic" justification for the pre-existing belief that African-Americans are a menace to society and a serious threat to white America.

His booklet is simply the latest effort of racial ideologues to demonstrate black America's hatred for whites and to encourage whites to "take back the country" as a matter of survival. Although there are many inaccuracies in Taylor's analysis, those already detailed should give a sense of the quality of his research.

As social science, The Color of Crime fails the test.

_____________________________________________

Hope you all learned something from this. Also, check out http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/ to learn more facts directly from the source. If you doa simple 5 minute search, most of Pat's facts are proven false.

Sorry for all the posts, but I had to respond to such lies and racist language.

ADL
The ADL thinks people who want low taxes (including Ron Paul) should be grouped in with white supremacists. They even mention Ron Paul on their website.

I can't take anything they say seriously when they smear people who want lower taxes as racists.

http://www.adl.org/learn/ext_us/TPM.asp?LEARN_Cat=Extremism&LEARN_SubCat=Extremism_in_America&xpicked=4&item=21


Oh and Ellison..
Oh, and Ellison, on your blog you 'color' crime as well. You just blame 'young angry white men'.

http://rethinkingamerica.townhall.com/

Or at least the article you reposted did, I guess you couldn't manage an original thought.


RealityCheck
On my blog, I reposted something a friend sent me from California. I thought it was an interesting read. I also posted something about Jena, LA and Dr. Asa Hilliard. Did you read that?

So you can't take anything the ADL says seriously, yet you can take what a racist organization like New Century Foundation as factual and credible???

My point is Pat used a racist organization in his national syndicated column as a credible source and no one seems to have a problem with it. That is some reality check for myself about the attitude of some of my fellow countrymen.

Reality Check pt.2
Oh yeah. The author of the article is actually a "white" man. He can be reached at pkivel@sirius.com, at http://www.paulkivel.com, or at 510-654-3015.

The racial grievance industry...
... will go apoplectic over this article. Of course, the label "racist" will soon be liberally applied in many responses. That is the standard conversation killer that perpetuates the misery.


Derek Leaberry
"Why the chaos that has occurred since the 60s when black crime skyrocketed? As politically incorrect as it seems, a major reason was the end of segregation. During the era of segregation, blacks were not as likely to commit crimes due to a fear of the law. That fear is largely gone now."

Thank God for that!!!! Hallelujah!!!! Amen!!!!! Hosanna To The Highest!!!!!

We've Come a long way Baby

.....Remember segregation and those battles over States Rights and Civil Rights? ...I do! ...

....I'm glad to see that after 50 years we are well on our way to solving all our racial differences and problems ...we are just one big happy family .....COLOSSUS

Ralph Ellison
Why are Urban, Black, Neighborhoods Crime and/or Drug Infested? Why do Rappers routinely put out so-called music GLORIFYING Murder? Why have 40 years of Great Society Giveaways made LITTLE difference in Inner-City Neighborhoods? Why are so many Black Athletes (Ray Carruth, Pacman Jones, Michael Vick) convicted of violent crimes?

Now go find ANOTHER RACIST STUDY to explain away the truth!

Ralph Ellison, meet Charles Murray
About fifteen years ago, Murray published a book called Losing Ground. In it, he observes that after WWII, the Black community was making steady socieconomic progress, but then that progress came to a screeching halt with the advent of LBJ's "Great Society" measures.

If you want more of a thing, subsidize it. This works for ethanol, for cotton crops, or for single-parent families. The unintended consequences of programs like WICCA, AFDC, and myriad others have been the creation of a premanent underclass--mainly but not exclusively Black.

There's the source of our problem, Mr. Ellison. Read Murray's book with an open mind, and then weep for America.

Of Alvin Karpis and robberies
Alvin Karpis, the last Public Enemy #1, was once asked by a reporter, "Why do you rob banks?" Karpis answered, "Because that's where the money is."

'nuff said.

Warren Small
J. Philippe Rushton? Come on. You have to do better than that? That's like quoting Farrakhan as a Jewish Studies Scholar.

" I would rather believe the message of hard data obtained by geneticists, criminologists and psychometricians"

Such as who? Those mentioned by Pat and yourself certainly can not be trusted.


Power of speech
How it all works at ground zero

As one whose skin tone is white I am born racist according to the speech of strangers I have never met.

An all inclusive guilt that nature itself is said to impose into my puppet life, predetermined by the speech of complete strangers. Yet this sort of speech is not racist, even if it condemns my race and objects to any individual having a personal choice to think for himself.
If I say I am not racist, that has been determined by strangers shows my racism.


I have no choice in this matter, just accept this speech as natural consquences of powers that a stranger holds over me (I can only submit to or be called a liar, fool, racist).

I am supposed to accept the voice of strangers in this question cause I do not have any other choice, and if I dare not walk into a black neighborhood thats because I am unwilling to accept the true justice of a black person non-racist violence against me for being white.

Here at ground level it all looks like bs to me


Shame....
..., which is a personal control agent, is only felt when someone respects national mores, religious rules, and/or government representatives that supposedly exemplifies their view of moral conduct.

The sixties produced an end to social stigma and healthy, self-governing shame. In the Black community today, embarrassment has basically been eliminated, and embarrassment is an indicator of healthy shame. Morality was (and still is) perceived by many Blacks as a white construct, and thus it can be legitmately shunned. Moral relatively became part of the new socialist and racial agenda.

But this is not just a domain of inner city Black people. As Dick Morris pointed out on a Hannity and Combs program, "Hillary isn't capable of embarrassment". That should give any sober adult a clue as to how crime and punishment will be viewed if she is elected president.







troglodyte
Not Charles Murray, Mr. Bell Curve himself. The Book "Losing Ground: American Social Policy, 1950-1980" came out over 22 years ago.

For you to tell me to read Charles Murray is insulting. Scientific racism is not to be read with an "open mind", but denounced as deeply flawed and racist.


Patrick
That quote you mentioned was from Willie Sutton, another bank robber.

The elephant in the living room
Gets ignored, while the dust particle gets Federal attention.

The racist KKK has not killed any person since the 1960's and is marginalized by one and all as impotent in swaying but a few to that thinking.

Meanwhile young black men are murdering one another over the color of their clothing(apparel racism) and its not worth time talking about for the univeral truth that white skin is the problem here for curing murder and violence.


Again, it all looks like bs here at ground zero

Marlin Newburn
"In the Black community today, embarrassment has basically been eliminated, and embarrassment is an indicator of healthy shame. Morality was (and still is) perceived by many Blacks as a white construct, and thus it can be legitmately shunned."

That does not make any sense at all. You have no proof to back your statement up eexcept the narrow minded stereotypes and notions you cater to.

It seems as if Pat does not have any shame when he presents racist "facts" from those like Jared Taylor. Wouldn't you agree?

The way it is.
Poverty, or lack of income, has the same relation to violent crime, as poverty does to radical Islam.

In other words, none.

Mohammad Atta was from a well-to-do Egyptian family. Al Zawahiri is a physician. Bin Laden came from a very wealthy family.

It is false to attribute high black rates of violent crime to poverty, or lack of income.

Ralph Ellison
Charles Murray is a respected academician.

His and Herrnstein's "Bell Curve's" major findings have still not been invalidated, even though leftist intellectual lightweights have had 13 years(since its publication)to do so.

Why am I not surprised?

Ralph Ellison
Anyone who disparages a 'right leaning' source as lacking credibility is immediately identified by their quoting an 'extreme left leaning' source such as the Southern Poverty Law Center.

Morris Dees has been given a free ride by the MSM for years. Since you obviously support SPLC, we have no common ground for discussion, except we now know the others political dispositions.

Your comments are equally insulting to me ~

No I would not
Ralph Ellison writes:

It seems as if Pat does not have any shame when he presents racist "facts" from those like Jared Taylor. Wouldn't you agree?
---------

Seems to me cause you are black, your race cannot accept Pat's points cause he is disqualified cause he is white.

Thats is racism itself, something many blacks thrive on.

Never accepting the obvious fact that blacks are the most racist in the speech than anyone else is, outside of groups like "La Raza" the brown racists.

You thrive on this stuff, happily wanting to keep arguments going out of your own hatred for white skin, and that is racism, your favorite subject?

I get mixed emotions about my race in this day and time, being Scottish/Cherokee.

Perhaps I should begin judging all men by my mixed race and use this to create one more division as many blacks love today and live with the violence they create in their own neighborhoods.

Not seen in white racist neighborhoods, shooting one another over clothing colors.

Keep creating the hate against others, it always comes home to roost.

Like the old proverb

When you dig a ditch for another, you end up the one in the hole (adlibbed)

To respond to anything....
...by this character, Ellison, would indicate an absence of shame.

War Horse
Get Ready, The Fruits and Nuts are thick on here today!

War Horse
Notice how Fruits & Nuts IGNORE direct questions?!

War Horse
Notice how Fruits & Nuts IGNORE direct questions?!

Black on Black violence and crime
is not just a problem here in the U.S.

Consider the problems in Africa;

The Sudan/Darfur human rights abuses
Nigeria Christian / Muslim Conflict
The Somali Civil War
The conflict in the Democratic Republic of Congo
Sierra Leone's grotesque human rights violations
Conflict between Ethiopia and Eritrea
The Rwanda genocide

It all comes down to self respect and respect for others.

If one does not respect themselves they can't respect others. That applies to all races and ethnicities. We can see it play out in non-Black societies too.

Kosovo (Muslim vs Christian)
Palistine/Israel (Muslim vs Jewish)
Pakistan (Muslim vs Hindu)
China (Hui Muslims vs Han Chinese)
Iraq (Suni vs Sheite {both Muslim})

Hmmmm, I see a patern developing, do you?

1953 and all that
The US is not going back to old style de jure segregation, Mr. Ralph Ellison(congratulations on your new novel-from the grave). But blacks are their own worst enemy. The blacks of 1953 killed each other at a drastically lower rate then than they do now.

I see
alot of crowing about the stats Pat used and labeling them as racist. Before you can solve a problem you must first recognize that there is a problem. Until that happens this kind of heinous crimne will continue and the people who will suffer the most are black.

Mr Ellison
Sure, the ADL and SPL are completely neutral, with no leftwards slant at all. BTW, the source cited by Buchanan was based on FBI and DOJ sources. And it's nothing new, happened all the time in high school just outside of Philly. Any white kid picking on a black would get suspended or arrested but any group of blacks jumping a white kid would be given a warning or nothing at all. It seemed that the NAACP had significant traction there. Of course, now I, too, will be branded a racist for pointing out facts and describing what I saw in my integrated high school. Pat is right, the real racists are those only concerned with "black on black" crime and those who intentionally do not report all of the facts. And Mr. Ellison, brevity of word is a wonderful habit.

mrknightly - GOP Opportunity
mrknightly writes: Tuesday, August, 21, 2007 8:39 AM - Black on Black Crime
"People who speak only of black on black crime are racists."

I don't agree with you here. Many black people focus on this issue because it's such a huge problem. If black on black crime is reduced, other types of crime will be as well. It's just a matter of focus not exclusion.

Unfortunately, statements made by many who are working to help in this area often point to solutions that have no merit. But that's another issue all together.

I think Republicans would do well to address this issue. If they could provide some help here, both the Republicans and the black community would benefit. Many in the black community (probably most) are highly suspicious of Republicans whether that's deserved or not. By putting some genuine effort here, Republicans might help to earn trust.

With that in mind, the solution may not be a new government program. I'm highly distrustful of those that always think the answer if more government. But here too the GOP could show leadership by killing some program (PORK) they cherish in order to direct money here in a well thought out manner.

El Negro Pero
To bring up past segregation is ridiculous. We aren't back there and won't be going back there.

The truth of what was pointed out is that black Americans need to stop looking and acting like victims. I know because I work closely with blacks, whites, hispanics, whatever. These people care about their jobs and their kids. They are concerned about the education of their children, and they set an example for them.

When we get rid of the race hustling Sharptons and Jacksons, then maybe we can begin to solve the problems blacks face. The tolerating of black rap that despises law enforcement, that denigrates an education, that intimidates young black children because they act white, these are the things that need to end in the black community.

Sadly, many of these attitudes continue because the liberal whites who govern have convinced black America they are downtrodden. Still, there are many black families as I described above who no longer accept those phony positions, and they are the ones making headway, not only for themselves, but for their kids. The word "assimilate" really does define it, and the sooner black Americans get off the victim train and start demanding the true values they once learned in their churches, the sooner the problems will begin to ease.


inconvenient truths
Pat B. and fellow sagacious posters proffer facts that the left abhors, like Dracula confronted by a cross. Example: crime vis-a-vis poverty-- there have been dirt-poor Jewish and Chinese ghettos where the people were shunned by others and English was not their first language, yet crime was non-existent and they soon moved upward and out via ingenuity and innate ability. We have spent $11 TRILLION on the so-callled war on poverty, even as pandemic social problems among blacks and hispanics have soared and snowballed-- broken homes, illegitimacies, dropouts, drugs, gangs, crimes ad nauseam.

The indubitable prevalence of black crime is so acute that even Rev. Jessuh hisself admitted years ago that when he heard footsteps behind him at night that he was relieved to look back and see a white face. We can debate the causes, but realities are indisputable.

The professional poor people (Jesse, Al, etc.) enrich themselves on the social welfare system, and the left glibly, and remotely, feels better about itself by growing the nanny state. But as the old saw goes, the definition of a conservative is a liberal who got mugged last night. Similarly, a xenophobic nativist is a former PC liberal who just got rear-ended by a drunken, unlicensed, uninsured ILLEGAL alien in a stolen car who coughed TB on her.

Killing the messenger...
..is today's method of silencing any critic of any kind. I don't know who Jared Taylor is, but I read Buchanan's article and from my experiences living in Black communities, there is no shock and surprise. To deny reality is part of the politically correct movement which means people will suffer.

Instead of trying to lynch Buchanan or Murray, or even Taylor for their beliefs or words, the fair thing to do is read what they've written (or say), and then make a decision to accept or reject their message.

Today's thought police can condemn someone personally all they want and they commonly do, but that can't stop free speech.

Liberal-Left The Cause of the Tragedy
Prior to the 60s, violent crime and crime in general, committed by blacks was going down, and prior to the 60s was never in the same league as it is now.

Liberal-Left social policies, still being preached by all the libs including all the Democratic presidential candidates, has caused this national tragedy..

For 40+ years, we have allowed the black communities to be 'taught' that crime is OK because of slavery, or poverty or because 'blacks can't help it' etc.

During Katrina the Left claimed thousands of violent crimes were commited by blacks-when the crimes were never commited at all. The Left went on to portray all blacks as inherently violent or genetically disposed to violence.

Truth is that by allowing the liberal Lefties to 'educate' black teenagers that violence is OK and then encouraging them to do so, we have participated in this tragedy.

In fact whenever we have allowed the liberal Left to have its way, the results has always been a national tragedy.

Oh, joy!
Our shoot-the-messenger racist Ralph has weighed in, breaking the anti-spamming spirit, if not the letter, of restricted post length.

Ralph Ellison writes: Tuesday, August, 21, 2007 9:19 AM

"How about the racist "right-leaning" New Century Foundation. This is a racist group, no doubt about it."

How about disputing the figures using the DOJ report yourself, instead of going back over a decade to "hate crime" nonsense? Let's assume for the purposes of perpetuating your fairy-bubble existence that no crimes are hate crimes except for white-on-anybody-but-white, and that all other crimes are love crimes. I know that you can only feel better by feeling worse, so I'll give you that.

"For Pat to quote from this group is such a slap in the face. And for some posters not to question these "facts" or this group is truly insulting to me."

We didn't see you question the facts using the DOJ report yourself, did we, Mr. Thin Skin? Which of the numbers are wrong, and please cite both the quotes in the present article and the most recent government figures that refute them.

No Easy Solution
A simple truth - Black America has degenerated into nonfunctional status. Two thirds of black babies are born to unmarried women. Education - the one way out of poverty as demonstrated by every ethnic group in America - is looked down upon in the 'hood - it's "white." Instead, the local culture glorifies pimps and 'ho's, drug dealers and Super Fly's - and every ghetto kid thinks he's going to be a basketball star. Those who achieve middle class status and beat the odds can't run away fast enough from their less fortunate brothers - they want no part of the 'hood or its losers. How many billions of dollars were poured into social programs since the '60s - and the only result is a subculture that glorifies popping out illegitimate kids, sneers at learning, has probably half of its young men with criminal records, and ever increasingly sticks out its hand demanding "reparations" because "you owe me, Whitey." The sad fact is that until Blacks start assuming responsibility for their own, they have no right to expect anyone else to. Jim Brown is to be commended for what he does - why aren't there more, a lot more?

More about Pat than
.. anything else. While it's true that "Ralph Ellison" didn't refute the statistics cited by Buchanan, he did expose Buchanan's resort to an avowedly racist organization (New Century Foundation) for his talking points here.

Check out the American Renaissance website.

http://www.amren.com/

It identifies race as the most important and divisive characteristic of a human being. This doesn't even need to be "code" for anything else to be a bad premise with unworthy, invidious tendencies. The website speaks for itself.

There is no doubt that leftist journalism will gloss over and misrepresent actual statistics, about the racial face of crime as about numerous other things. But acknowledging that need not be part and parcel of a network of racist attitudes. Other authors, like Thomas Sowell, manage to deal with actual facts and statistics without having recourse to foundations dedicated to magnifying distinctions between the races. Buchanan has done truth a disservice here by using a racist organization as a reference.

The black community
The black community -- What is that? What does that term mean? Do millions of people in 50 different states constitute a community? Does the term include blacks from other countries? Is an African immigrant a member of the black community? How about mixed race people are they part of the 'black community'? How about Sharpton's rent-a-mob are the non-blacks in the crowd part of the black community? How about the black conservatives with jobs and families are they part of the black community?

The fact is a large number of blacks are criminals. What should we do? Lock them up. Give the 20-year-old black violent criminal a long prison sentence. Give him 30 or 40 years for the first offense. Piggy-back his juvenile sentence, for example give the 15-year-old a 40 sentence with 6 years in a maximum security juvenile correction institution and then 34 years in an adult maximum security correction institution. Moreover, of course abolish parole.

It is not a race issue it a criminal issue.

Pat's fan base
Seems Pat's articles attract his usual crowd. They sure love it when he so elequently points to the faults of every race or religion that differs from his own. Whether it's about black violence, the Hispanic infiltration of our nation, or the Jewish controlled universe, Pat has enough hate to go around. Thankfully, his fans appear to me a minority of the conservative crowd.

Warren Small writes:
(This comment is dedicated to the memory of the victims of the Wichita Massacre, Channon Christian and all the other casualties of savagery whom the MSM did not want to tell white America about.)
****
I live in Wichita, and I saw plenty of coverage on the case against the Carr brothers. Was it national news? Yes! Court TV covered portions of the trial. They would have covered the whole thing but the nation was becoming fed up with 24/7 coverage of other high profile cases such as the Scott Peterson case. Every day that I passed the court house here in Wichita while that trial was going on and there were news vans and satellite trucks taking up the whole block.

The case is now almost 7 years old. The Carr brothers were tried and convicted for their brutal acts. They were given the death penalty, but as usual that takes time with appeals.

The Carr Brother case is one of Black on White crime, but I can cite just as many local cases of crimes amongst the same of differing racial backgrounds.

One such local case where the perpetrator was White is the case of Dennis Rader, a.k.a. BTK. He killed 10 people over many decades and his crimes were just as brutal as the Carr brothers.

I Say Again
From my first post (the first on this article) I
said "some further their agenda while others are
relieved to just not go there". I have come to believe the later vastly outnumber the former!
I am wondering if it's not so much a conspiracy
to mislead as pure "unadulterated cowardice" in
the FDM (facts don't matter) element of our society. It is undeniable, like the emperors new
clothes, but if a conspiracy exists it is a tacid agreement or compact which says " I won't call you a coward if you won't call me a coward"

"Racist organization"?!
dyerje says Pat's source, American Renaissance, are "avowedly racist". Where do they describe themselves as that?
The AR simply analyzed DOJ stats & published the ugly truth. Libiots like dyerje are offended by the truth and smear the messenger. Libs need the incredibly obvious pointed out to them everyday...doesn't this get tiresome? dyerje, next time you're driving through the 'hood, roll down your windows, unlock your doors & tell the friendly homeys there how untrue this report is.

A question
I have a question for all the posters here who think blacks are to blame for all crime, are inferior, or genetically unable to live the perfect life that whites ascribe to:

What's your solution?

What's Your Solution?
I'm a conservative and believe man nor society can be perfected. There can be no ultimate solution and, in fact, millions of blacks are affluent and successful. But millions also live in a downward cycle that probably can not be solved. Once you've had five or six generations of black children experiencing dysfunctional family life, there can be no solution.

American blacks have had a unique sojourn on this continent. Brought to do agricultural work beginning in the mid-1600s, mechanization of agriculture made most obsolete starting about 1900. For three or four generations afterwards they migrated to northern cities and there was usually plenty of work for them as semi-skilled laborers. But that era has been dying for forty years. Stuck in squalid slums are millions of blacks who just don't fit in the post-industrial age. Although many blacks have survived due to their political seizure of hundreds of cities from New Orleans to Philadelphia to Detroit to Baltimore, the bulk have little future in the mainstream of American society.

JoJo
No one with half aq brain thinks blacks are too blame for ALL the crime. Your spinning it.

reply to JoJo
To identify correctly a problem where others have doggedly persisted in denial does not require one to proffer a solution. There are some egregious problems that unfortunately defy solution and may be inherently insoluble. There was a line in "The Natural" --> Some mistakes we never stop paying for.

We can, and MUST, however, do something about ILLEGAL aliens crashing the border bringing with them myriad social pathologies which will destroy us socio-economically and culturally. We can insist that our pols enforce existing laws and put a stop to the ILLEGAL invasion. Today's America cannot benefit from ILLEGAL invaders who are uneducated, indigent, and willfully culturally disparate, notwithstanding myths to the contrary that we "need them here." We are already the most diverse nation on earth, but as the Greek philosopher said, nothing in excess.

Lincoln's Solution Was ...

.....Lincoln wanted to ship all freed blacks to Africa after the Civil War but the Secretary of the Navy refused to pay for the transport ...

.....I think Lincoln's solution might have gone a long way toward alleviating what seems to be today ...an unsolvable morass ...

....When I was young and an idealist I used to think that we could live in a color blind society if we all just treated each other with respect ...I no longer believe that is possible ...

.....I think that we are defined by our race or color and that we will always prefer our own and be leery or hostile to those that are very different from ourselves ...I think this is in the genes and is a part of human nature ...

....The best that can be hoped for in a multi-racial society is a Mexican stand-off ...but this can only be maintained if the numbers are static ...with changing demographics white's may someday be in the minority ...when that happens there will be cultural upheavals in this country that could lead to anarchy and civil war ...

.....I put the numbers in my program and that is the most likely outcome .....COLOSSUS

Don't ever snitch: Chapter I
Last week I saw an interview by Anderson Cooper of CNN with a rapper whose name sounded like CamRon or close to that. The man apparently had made plenty money in his business of "rapping," and when asked by Cooper whether he owned a Lamborghini, replied that he owned "a couple" of them.

I don't know anything about "rapping," but I assume it is something like screaming obscenities at the top of one's voice to an appreciative crowd and getting generously rewarded with cash, Lamborghinis, and such.

The man interviewed was arrogant beyond belief, what I would call "terminally arrogant." He made a case for not ever "snitching" to the police in your neighborhood, no matter what kind of heinous crime you might have witnessed. He said that if he knew that a neighbor was a serial killer, he would not report him to the police, but he might move out of the neighborhood. So much for civic responsibility. Later, Cooper talked to kids in the "'hood," who repeated that one must never, never snitch to the cops if one has knowledge of a crime.

I saw all of this as a great opportunity. I'll continue in another message.

As Derek and Lodestar write
Black Africans were brought to this country in the 1600s to do Agriculture work and later displaced by machinery and migrated.

Then why in hell does the U.S. bribe 12 milliom Hispanics with every possible medical and aid program, and even offer 40% tax amnesty to sneak across the border in the deep of the night to do what? Why, Agriculture and other unskilled service work! All the while millions of jobless Blacks live off societys give-away programs and crime. This is yet another problem the PC media refuses to visit.

Don't ever snitch: Chapter II
The great opportunity here is a chance to try out John McCain's theories about torture. McCain says torture does not work, but many in and out of the military disagree.

This is how it would work. A horrible, unspeakable crime is committed in the 'hood, something comparable to the execution of those students in Newark last week. There are witnesses, but none of them will tell police what they saw, because that would be "snitching." So the police pick up several of them.

On the way to the station, the police car is ambushed by several men wearing ski masks and carrying AK-47's. They force police to turn over the prisoners.

The next morning, the crime has been solved, and arrests are made of criminals who, evidence shows, are the guilty ones. The witnesses? Oh, yeah, they turn up on the street the next day, looking really bad. They are bruised and battered, and one is missing a finger. Some folks in the area are outraged. They think the police know who the kidnappers in the ski masks actually were. But the police insist they do not know. The crime has been solved. If the police know who intimidated the witnesses, it is clear none of them will snitch.

Victims need the Libs
Liberals need victims. Without victims, liberals are as useless as teats on a boar hog. Victims need someone to save them. It doesn't matter what they are being saved from, as long as it is from someone else or something else. Anything but themselves.

Liberals promote victimization because it empowers them. That's why they hate personal responsibility and abhor the thought that anyone can take care of themselves. They are looking for a new victimization class in illegal immigrants. They are afraid that the white/black race card is drying up.

Blacks commiting crimes against whites just do not advance the libs. cause of keeping racism alive and well in America. As long as they can promote racism, they can pretend to be the ones fighting against it. Dems. need the black vote to stay in power.

Everyone
First off, you can criticize the SPLC and the ADL. OK. But to defend American Renaissance, Jared Taylor, New Century Foundation, etc really does take some suppressing of one's conscience. Good luck to you.

I hope I was able to point out the flaws in Mr. Buchanan's article and his shameful reliance upon a racist organization like New Century Foundation. You can criticize me all you want. I can take it. But at least accept the fact that these statistics are overblown, over hyped, and used by racists for their personal, nefarious agendas.

J. Philippe Rushton? Come on people. A “more educated” David Duke.

Charles Murray? Eddie Murray has more respect in academia.

As for statistics, I would again implore upon my TH brethren to check the “facts”

On rape:

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/pdf/cvus/current/cv0506.pdf

“Blacks commit more violent crime against whites than against other blacks” Nope.

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/press/vvr98pr.htm

One is one sad, yet important fact is that after all these statistics:

From 1976 to 2005 --
86% of white victims were killed by whites
94% of black victims were killed by blacks

We’ve got to stop killing one another, no matter what the color. No matter whether it is here at home or abroad, life is soooooo important. Every life. I hope there is a heaven. If not, we better value this life. It’s the only one we ever get.

Again, do your own research:

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/

Ellison posts
Ellison gets challenged. Ellison leaves. Typical of him.

Richard/baseballdoc
Richard,

I'm still here. I did respond to your postings. Look at the web links and READ them. Most of these “facts” are false and misinterpreted. Check the source.

Sorry I made you think instead of believing. Challenge yourself and your beliefs. I do it by coming to a website full of individuals that I hold little in common with politically. Also, seems like I hit a nerve. Are you a member of New Century, AR, VDARE, CCC, etc?

Baseball,

"I think Lincoln's solution might have gone a long way toward alleviating what seems to be today ...an unsolvable morass"

Thanks for presenting the truth about Lincoln. That’s why I find it funny that some conservatives love to trot out the moniker of “The Party of Lincoln” in their GOP outreach toward African Americans. A bit hypocritical and insulting.

However, to say that his solution was a smart or feasible option is pure ignorance. Sorry. Wouldn't have solved anything.

Good night. Will check in tomorrow. (May or May Not wait for Richard’s response.)

Failure
If you control the money, discipline, and curriculum and how good students feel about themselves and you fail to get them educated, whose fault is it? The kids? Where the heck are the adults? Yank text as you will but the system, in particular the employees and the congress are responsible.

If you say the kids have freedom of choice not to learn, then what happened to that freedom when they decide crime pays? You did not punish them as kids and no one punishes them for their crimes. So why talk about it?

The truth is that if the educators get everything they ask for and cannot get the job done they are not competent. Further, they do not want anyone else to have that opportunity either. That is the real reason you do not have choice.

How stupid are educators? In my area, they have built all the schools, elementary through senior high out in the country, all within a bombs blast or natural disasters reach. The bonus is that now no one can walk to school. Everybody rides the bus or is carried by parents. Fat kids at that.

If you would like this written two or three grade levels higher so you can understand it, ask an educator.

So long....
Not going to wait. Here's a clip to express my feelings.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=fNWP3FZdpAw

You gotta be kidding!
I can't imagaine anything more willfully stupid and wrong than this.

The failure in getting "these" people educated lies strictly in "these" people. For the most part the problem is that you can't lead "these" horses to water, and if you manage that, you certainly can't make them drink.

"The failure to get these people educated lies with the people who control education."

"Hustler writes: Tuesday, August, 21, 2007 6:27 AM
And?
What is your point, Pat? The issue of race became a political cause in the fifties. It has not yet been milked for all it is worth. What if we looked at the same data with an eye toward social status, income or whether or not they even had jobs.

Financially comfortable people commit fewer crimes. People with job commit fewer crimes. Well educated people commit fewer crimes. And on and on. The failure to get these people educated lies with the people who control education. No one else. It is not a racial issue except when made one. Get a life."



Posts crossed
I saw your post just after I posted. After reading your (outdated) links, I was unable to find a rebuttal to the figures, and you didn't provide one either. Exactly which conclusions were wrong? The last time I challenged you, you ducked out and after four+ hours today, it looked like you were again.

Regarding the groups, I have no idea what any of them are, except that the CCC was Roosevelt's long-defunct make-work depression scam.

Having looked at the DOJ reports, I don't see any that any serious analysis errors were made. Perhaps you can, as previously challenged, produce the correct figures.

BTW, race (see Tiger Woods, 50% Asian) is a non-sense category to me, as are hyphenated American of any stripe, but I guess that we're stuck with it. The root of the crime problem is fatherless boys, sad to say. The inexcusable acceptance of rap music [sic!], with "songs" like "Shoot 'em Up", is near-criminal.

I find it interesting....
that Pat put out this column today. As you know on August 21, 1831, Nat Turner's Rebellion occured. I wonder if Pat realized this?

I gotta admit that Pat is not the most racially sensitive person. But these websites and groups he used are so racist!!! He should know better. Some of yall posters gotta face facts. Alot of these groups are politically aligned with conservatism/GOP in America. And you wonder why Blacks and almost every other racial minority don't like the GOP?


Oh yeah. I have a observation about Townhall. This Ellison guy and the Lilly girl sure make some conservatives on this site mad. Seems like some of yall would love to put a lynch mob out on him. Lord!!!!

They make good points and sure have some "courage" to come on websites that are openly hostile to their opinion. Bravo to them.


Liberal W/ Racists in Lily White Suburbs
It never ceases to amaze me that the biggest Black Racists or Persons of Color Racists are White Liberals who refuse to live in the inner city or even remotely close to those whose cause or plight they claim to champion. These are the same folks who talk and write one way and get into their SUV'S at the end of the work day and drive to their homes in the lilly white suburbs.

Its almost become fashionable even in Hollywood with the likes of Angelina Jolie and Brad Pitt and even Madonna who go on regular sojourns to third world countries and who are dubbed honorary U.N. ambassadors of the third world.
While the Liberal Hollywood People of Color Racists are at work our own government which is pretty much controlled by the CFR Rockefeller Republicans and Liberal Democrats are busy fudging the books and promoting sociological demographic ethnic cleansing war-fare as they seek to change the face of America from a predominantly WASP nation to a nation that resembles the faces of the third world through legal and illegal immigration policies.

If their plan was not obvious some people might be able to get away with labeling Buchanan and others who seek to expose what is happening, but the reality is this: It is no longer a secret and if there is any racism anywhere...it is the racism against white people or to be politically correct: European Americans.

Just look at the NAFTA Superhighway and the plans that our own President is perpetrating on the American people as he meets in Canada today with the leaders of Mexico and Canada to discuss an excelerated "Fast-Track" strategy to implement this threat to American Sovereignty.


Liberal W/ Racists in Lily White Suburbs
Any idiot can look at the facts and figure out why this Liberal CFR Rockefeller Republican
administration and Liberal Democratic controlled Congress is continually Ripping Off the American people and promoting an "OPEN BORDERS" free for all as they try to open the flood gates and unleash millions of immigrants from all over the world by seeding them into communities all over the United States and just like the Trojan Horse of the illiad and Odyssey...destroy the foundation of a once prosperous European American Judeo-Christian Culture that has empowered and invigorated all of humanity with its own diversity which is sadly coming to an end if not extinction made into another hybrid culture of what the Elites have envisioned....The Great Utopian Marxist God of World Socialism where there is an equality of the proletariot.....to be ruled by them...the SLAVE MASTERS...THE ELITES!

The Solution to Crime
The only solution is to change the way the police control cities. Police need to use the fear of force to keep people in line. The reason for the high crime rate in certain black communities is because there is no fear of police.

Liberals lack compassion
What? Liberals lack compassion? But they wear their compassion on their sleeves; they practically ooze compassion!

When you look at the policy positions and personal choices of liberals, you find that their vaunted "compassion" is absent. Besides that fact that they are less likely to do volunteer work and give less to charity, if you look at who gets hurt by liberal policy, its blacks, women and gays.

The pandering, patronizing policies (nice alliteration eh?) of affirmative action, race-norming, and grade inflation have made it easier for blacks to get an education - that teaches them nothing. We also see lefties always siding with black criminals like Tookie and Mumia, rather than the police. And of course the drugs that kill so many black men should be legalized, according the liberals. It doesn't really matter how many black men are killed, or how many black kids never get to meet their fathers. The important thing is everyone see how "racially sensitive" you are.

Thanks to the sexual revolution, women now have just as much right as men to have shallow meaningless sex. Yay. They also get to enjoy the stress of trying to work and raise a family at the same time. Does anyone really believe that women today are happier than they were before Gloria Steinem showed up? But whether women are happy or not isn't the point, the important thing is being seen to be a feminist.

As for gays, the left cared about their rights so much that they let a million of them die from AIDS rather than violate their precious "privacy".

So, I for one am happy to be a straight white man, because there is no way liberals will try to help me. Maybe that's why straight white men occupy so many positions of power and have so much money.

Quincy: lynch mobs=Democrats
In the days of the lynch mobs, the southern states were overwhelmingly Democrat, and Democratic governors were very reluctant to do anything about lynchings. You see, Democrats back then used racial issues to divide the electorate for their own political advantage, whereas today...

(Some) blacks complain
more today than the actual slaves did.

gwco2skeptic
"You see, Democrats back then used racial issues to divide the electorate for their own political advantage, whereas today..."

Let me finish, ... Republicans use racial issues, sexual orientation issues, and scare tactics for their own political advantage.

Man, Politics sure are ugly.

CT
Hello Mr. Ignoramus. Need to stop talking out from your exit, if you know what I mean.

Some people are plain stupid. Maybe I should add your name to that list. The nerve of some people.

gwco2skeptic
gwco2skeptic- Bitter white man. Get over it.

Quincy
First off, I am not bitter. I am genuinely concerned about the lives and well being of blacks, women and gays. As for Republicans using race as an issue, give me some examples.
To be pre-emptive of the obvious examples, David Duke was run out of town on a rail, and the "Willie Horton" ad neither mentioned the man's race, nor showed a single black person.

It is Democrats who are obsessed with race. Republicans just want everyone to get educated and get a job, regardless of race.

I'm black now
I forgot; I made the discovery last week that I am, in fact black. I am descended from a black couple in Northern Africa, just like the rest of the human race, according to mitochondrial DNA. So, while I have the healthy pale skin of a computer programmer, I am still a black man by ancestry. So scratch the "white" part from my "straight white man" comment before. Liberals, you may now kill me with your pandering.

gwco2skeptic
Unless you are Stevie Wonder, then how can you miss the mugshot of Willie Horton portrayed in the ad?

As for David Duke, I think it is telling he switched from a Democrat to a Republican. You must be so proud!!!!

SOLUTION...

There is only one choice...

Vote Republican!

Same old Divisive Stuff
What a useless article by Pat. We all know these statistics. I live outside Philadelphia, but I was born and raised in the city. I lived in NW Philly and attended Temple in North Philly. When I look at maps of the 250+ murders, I don't need a scorecard to tell me who is being killed.

Inner city residents are being held hostage by a gangster insurgency that is a by-product of the War on Drugs. Decent people are afraid of the armed crazies. The police have tight rules of engagement and the criminals cycle through the system to wreak vengeance on witnesses.

Not only that, we are importing a whole new graduating class of armed crazies from Latin America who are fueled by drug money in the same way that Al-Qaeda is supported by oil money from Saudi despots.

Pat should have stopped at the part where the illegal immigrants murdered promising young Americans and left it at that. The rest of the article is old news that just rubs salt in wounds.

All of you folks arguing back and forth about who is the biggest racist are just wasting your time.

Pat Is Dishonest
The Color of Crime was largely debunked a few years ago as several people caught good ol' JT using fuzzy math, massaging data, and even making stuff up.

http://www.lipmagazine.org/~timwise/colorofdeception.html


Check out the link..."The Color of Deception"...

Not all of what JT said was false, but he made a lot of it up.

Also for all those morons who keep talking all this noise about "black people and the black community".

First off, should I hold white people responsible for trailer part trash or those drunk morons in South Boston or the Guidos on Staten Island who think they are all "with" the mob?

The truth is most black people don't live in ghettos or in poverty.

Only 20% of blacks are poor. For the idiots, that means 80% of blacks are not. Of that 20% that are poor, 10% are working poor. Why don't you check some real government stats first hand and check the black unemployment rate.

Try reading sometime:

http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/poverty/histpov/hstpov2.html

The vast majority of black people in America have never committed a crime let alone a violent crime.

The majority of black criminals in jail are in jail for nonviolent drug offenses.

Not saying things are perfect, they are not, but this is not a "black problem" as much as a ghetto lower class problem, don't blame the entire black community of 40 million people for what less than 10% of its population does.

That is like one white person committing a crime and I want to punish 9 innocent people.

Is that the logic? So quick to believe lying racialist who are obviously bias instead of doing personal research.

Guess you guys represent the left side of the white IQ bell curve, after all half of all white people are below average IQ (100) by definition.


Also
to add to my last post.

In 1960 (from the census data I posted above)...over 50% of blacks lived in poverty. If you go back further to 1940, it is more like over 60% live in poverty. Today a little less than 20% live in poverty in 1.5 generations since the last major civil rights legislation has passed, while the population continued to increase.

17% of blacks have bachelors degrees and the number increases every year and has done so since the 1960's.

Lets go on:

ABOUT BLACK AMERICANS - INCOME
2004 and 2007 University of Georgia Selig Center study, U.S. Census Bureau, National Black Chamber of Commerce, Target Market News, 2004 NUL "State of Black America" Report

74% live above the poverty line (vs. 10% in 1940 and 45% in 1960). All-time high above poverty: 79% in 2001
5% rich, 44% middle class, 27% working class, 24% poor (2004)
Overall median household income: $$37,000 (2000). Median income for married households: $48,000 (2002)
Top 5 states with highest median black household income: New Hampshire $43,574, Alaska $42,887, Maryland $41,652, Hawaii $41,032, New Jersey $38,513
Married households: 50% earn $50,000+. 27% earn $75,000+
Overall households: 33% earn $50,000+. 16% earn $75,000+
Median black adult male income (2000): $30,409. Median black adult female income (2000): $25,117
Poverty rate by family composition: married-couple families 8%, single-dad families 19%, single-mom families 35%
70% of children overall are not poor, 30% are poor. Percentage of poor children who live in single-mom households: 85%
Poverty rate for ages 65+: 78% not poor, 22% poor. Women 26%, men 16%
Combined GDP: $845 billion per year (2007, would be world's 18th largest economy). Per capita GDP: $22,062.67 (akin to Czech Republic, Kuwait, Slovenia, and Greece)

Reply to Dragon Horse
Dragon Horse,

I can certainly vouch for the high median income of Americans of African Descent in New Jersey. I have several nearby neighbors with huge McMansions and fancy German cars in their driveways.

I'm waiting for the day when the rich folks of all colors form a rainbow committee and run me out of the neighborhood. LOL

Ralph,,,
Sooo income factors are the reason for BLACKS being criminals...
OK ,,, the above being true would LOGICALLY lead to the next question..

Why do the MINORITY BLACKS have such smaller INCOMES and thus commit such a high % of the CRIME in this country,,,
When compared to the MINORITY ASIANS who have better INCOMES than WHITES and thus commit such a small % of the CRIME in this country?


You can't get away from comparing the Success of ASIANS in INCOME, MOBILITY, lack of CRIME.... and the accompanying RELATIVE Failure of BLACKS in the same....


Crime may be committed by ECONOMIC factors,,, but the reason for BLACK ECONOMIC MALAISE is the next LOGICAL question.


Don't get excited about a response from RALPH,,, he considers my comparisons of BLACKS to other MINORITIES as RACIST and not worthy of his response.

Hey RALPH,,, BOOOOO (just the boogeyman)

Dragonhorse,,,
I'm assuming your not KOSHER with any LIBERAL RACE BASED PROGRAMS then...

After all look how well the BLACKS are doin... and what the heck are JESSIE and AL so upset about all the time?

Or is it that the BLACKS NEED Race based programs because,,, a full 20% are in poverty... and 80% escaped the discrimination of the WHITE man,, but only barely...


Hey DragonHorse,,,, do you want your CAKE,,? And want to EAT it too?

Quincy
Willie Horton's picture DID NOT APPEAR IN THE BUSH CAMPAIGN AD! The official Republican Party ad showed (white) inmates walking through a revolving door.

There was an ad sponsored by a PAC which did feature Horton's picture, but it was not approved by the Republican party.

And when it comes to KKK members, how about the "conscience of the Senate" Robert Byrd?

Now, unless you have some examples of Republican race pandering from this century (which saw the most ethnically diverse cabinet ever under GWB) I suggest you face the reality that the Democrats are the party of race-bating and pandering.

Race is an illusion
Can anyone here tell what color a poster here is if they do not tell us?
Do dark-skinned people from Nigeria have anything in common with dark-skinned people from Harlem, and do they have anything in common with dark-skinned people from Vancouver?
Are Jewish people white? What about Italians and Spaniards? Are Danish people the same race as the Scots?

My point is that color is absolutely meaningless in terms of defining a "race". There are some statistics which show some correlation based on skin color, but, as we all know by now, correlation does not prove causality.

"Race" should only be mentioned when it is actually relevant to something, like in terms of a physical description, or for some medical diagnoses. Any other use of race is... racism.

The Elitist Double Standard
What is so scary about Elitists in charge is the fact that these Elitists are so impressed with themselves that their own hubris denies them the common sense to place a moratorium on immigrants from Islamic Countries who might seek to further their Jihad on Americans from within their own country like they have in England. I believe the Elites have already issued an invitation for disaster and are just waiting for another 911 to happen so they can seize power and declare Marshall Law!
Although they will waste no time to scare Americans with the threat of a Nuclear Disaster which might be an inside job because some Islamic Extremist detonated one, they will do nothing to insure that these people cannot immigrate freely or cross over our borders or ports illegally into the United States. Just look at England? When I was in London in 1984 a middle easterner walked up to me and my military buddies and said: "Bloody American, why don't you get the hell out of my country!" I started thinking of most of my ancestors who were Scotch,English, Welsh and Irish. London looked like a middle eastern country even back then.

Today with declining White Birthrates even the likes of Louis Farrahkan are celebrating and prophecying the demise of White America. Its not just White America anymore, even Europe is in a crisis where before long the Islamists will out number the French in France and once they become the majority and France becomes a majority Islamic country they will already have free access to Nuclear Weaponry including a Nuclear Bomb.


Scooter's not keeping up
scooter:

You don't know the first thing about me but you assume I like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton.


How many middle class black people (the majority of black people) have you seen publicly in support of these media elected leaders who have no constituency to answer to?

This is like you being white so I assume you must love a given white public figure.

Your reasoning ability is not impressing me? Take a bottle full of fish oil pills and get back to me if your IQ edges over 2 digits and maybe you can keep up.

Great American Rip Off!
All of this El Torro Pooh Pooh is happening thanks to the collaboration of elites who work in league with the CFR and its affilite organizations and Governments.

The collectivists have centralized Europe under the European Union and just today the traitor CFR Rockefeller President of the United States is continuing to undermine our Sovereignty by assisting these criminals in taking over our country through the implementation of NAFTA, CAFTA, WTO, and all of the other micro-managed Cartels that have ripped off Americans and raped American Manufacturing plants and jobs in hopes of slowly kicking out each leg of the chair where America is becoming another third world debtor nation where assimilation is not normal.

For those who might have hoped to divide White Americans against Black Americans...the ironic thing about this is that most Black Americans agree with just about everything I have just said and even with what Pat Buchanan said. Black Americans continue to wake up too, so the White Liberal Racists can't keep them on the Great Society Plantation forever! Its over! America, and I mean all of America is slowly waking up to the RIP OFF THAT THE CFR ROCKEFELLER REPUBLICANS AND LIBERAL DEMOCRATS HAVE PERPETRATED ON THIS NATION!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9lWyp-RQCc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFfdB5OzlyQ

Warren Small writes
Get your CCTV cameras, your security guards and concealed carry permits now, folks. Hurry while stocks last. South Africa, here we come!

You may think this is a joking matter but facts are facts. As this country gets blacker and browner the crime rates go up standard of living goes down and this nation slides to Gamorah. It is time for a reprinting of The Bell Curve.

ELLISON

.....I am a computer ...only humans can be ignorant ...I can only extrapolate data and project logical conclusions ...

.....If Lincoln had been successful in his quest to return all blacks to Africa ...there would be no blacks in America and hence no racial tension ...ipso facto .....COLOSSUS

tammy writes:
Pat's fan base
Seems Pat's articles attract his usual crowd. They sure love it when he so elequently points to the faults of every race or religion that differs from his own. Whether it's about black violence, the Hispanic infiltration of our nation, or the Jewish controlled universe, Pat has enough hate to go around. Thankfully, his fans appear to me a minority of the conservative crowd.

Don't worry if you cannot answer a person's argument you can always call names. Pat made is argument based on facts and libs make theirs based on feelings. If pointing out facts or as Al Gore would call inconvienient truths makes me a racist then I plead guilty. There was a time when libs could cry racism as a way to shut down debate but no more. Jesse Jackson once said if he heard footsteps behind him he was relieved to see the person was white. Look at the cities with a large black population and how high their crime rates are. If you don't think there is anything to what Pat writes then move to East St Louis and see how long you last.

WARREN SMALL

.....You wrote:

....."The rising powers of this world-- India, China, Japan, Russia-- have none of America's diversity hang-ups and taboos. They are proud of their heritage and determined not to adulterate it by mixing in cartloads of incompatible and underpowered immigrants.

While our melting pot congeals into a cold, lumpy mess, the Asian tigers keep themselves as monoracial as their history has allowed.

PS: If you deny racial realities, don't ever dare to diss creationists. Race is the tentpole of Darwin's theory as applied to homo sapiens."

.....You are correct ....in Vietnam children of mixed blood were considered unclean and were rejected by society ...they were abandoned by their families at a young age and were left to grow up on the streets like stray dogs .....COLOSSUS

It's About Time
I'm thrilled that Pat Buchanan had the courage to write an article mentioning racial differences. The topic of racial differences has been verboten in polite society since the hard leftist anthropologist Franz Boas, who thought all human differences were social constructs, established the hegemony of the radical left in the field of anthropology.

These things need to be brought up. Limousine liberals have been demonizing less affluent whites for years over issues like this--people who have almost no influence over government policy. And blacks have been told by the radical left for years that they are the equivalent of identical twins with white people, yet they are incarcerated at much higher rates. Can anybody blame blacks for harboring serious misgivings about the intentions of whites toward them?

Whites who have done blacks no harm don't deserve to be hated by them. And blacks also don't deserve to be consumed by the passions of hatred.

For years the liberal "anti-racists" and civil rights hucksters have been telling us we need a frank conversation on race. I say let's give it to them.

Reply to Gabby on Christianity
That said, I am of the opinion (because the bible teaches this), that there is only ONE race, the HUMAN race.

Acts 17:26 And [God] hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;

Gabby,

Perhaps you're right; the Bible doesn't explicitly condemn multiculturalism. Then again, I doubt the Bible's authors could ever have envisioned such an insane policy absent takeover by a hostile power. But I'd like to remind you that the Bible doesn't forbid slavery or abortion either. But that doesn't mean that all of these practices aren't wrong.

Since it is obvious to anybody with two eyes and a modicum of sense that multiculturalism is a terrible idea, the likely result of your position will be to turn people away from Christianity. Is that what you want?

Dragonhorse,,,
Tell me about yourself then...

Considering How well BLACKS are doing.
And using your stats that 10% of all BLACKS are committing all black CRIME... (thats pretty small, ehhhh)
Why are the PRISONS in this country so OVERREPRESENTED with BLACKS, compared to thier population at large?

Why do the ASIAN MINORITY as a RACE,,, do much better than Black Minority in school, and income? Are'nt they both Minorities,,,, why the discrepancy?

In light of YOUR conclusions that just a few BLACKS are in poverty and commiting ALL the BLACK crime... do you FAVOR RACE BASED PROGRAMS? (remember it's just a few of them)


Why is the stereotype of the BLACK as a criminal,,(black cabbies pass blacks) but not so for ASIANS?
Would not YOUR #'s on 10% of BLACKS committing ALL the BLACK crime be impossible to create this?

channon christian
The rape,torture,and murder of Channon Christian is a perfect example of how crime is reported and not reported in this country. If the races had been reversed this would be the biggest story in the country today.

Christianity Response
Gabby,

I'm glad to hear you say that. The Bible does say that we're all equal in the sight of God; God doesn't recognize class or racial distinctions in heaven. And I'm sure this is where the political notions of anti-racism and radical egalitarianism got their starts. But it became a case of the tail wagging the dog.

For instance, slavery is a serious violation of egalitarian principles. And since the Bible nowhere condemns slavery, the radical egalitarian abolitionists wound up becoming the progenitors of the anti-Christian American left. This explains why even today Southerners tend to be much more religious than their northern counterparts.

Perhaps liberalism can be found in Christianity. But Christianity is rarely found in liberalism.

Tolerance is not a virtue
The notion that 'tolerance' is a virtue has begun to show its folly. In the real world and in any vocation, it is precision and discrimination that produces a quality product. If a finish carpenter decides to 'tolerate' error and makes gross mistakes in his craftmanship, I doubt that he would stay in business long.
To tolerate evil is not the road to a better society.
The ten commandments are not simply suggestions and the new Testament has not abolished God's law.
Tolerance of illegal immigrants will lead to a lawless society and we will probably then get a police state, as the liberal/left solution.

Slaves
Dunnyveg writes: Thursday, August, 23, 2007 11:56 AM

"Christianity Response

For instance, slavery is a serious violation of egalitarian principles. And since the Bible nowhere condemns slavery,..."

Ah, you have to interpret it correctly when it says clearly "Masters, give to bondmen (Gk: doulis) what is just and fair, knowing that ye also have a Master in the heavens." (Col. 4:1)

What is just and fair that you would want from your Master in heaven? Remember that we are bondservants of the Lord, but He has canceled our debt and freed us, though we didn't deserve it.

s.d.g.

Scooter's questions
First,

Figure out 10% of 40 million (est. # of AA in the U.S.)

Then, ponder/research if this number could correspond with the actual number African Americans who commit crimes that happen and if this many will happen in your lifetime. Feel free to include the cases that you watch on your local and national news stories (fresh cases only, don't count repeats of the same information!)

Next, reread Dragon Horse's posts and links

The answers to your questions should magically appear...

Don't let Taylor's creative mathmatical genius trip you up
Just trying to help ya out

Shane,,,
Great shane,,,

Count the ACTUAL #'s of EACH RACE of PRISONER in this country....

Count the ACTUAL #'s of EACH RACE of convicted criminals in this country..

Why is the # of Convicted Criminals and Prisoners in this country so heavily overrepresented with BLACKS and not ASIANS (vs the # of thier population at large)?


Next,,, shane
If you do come up with the answer that BLACKS commit SIGNIFICANTLY more crime than do ASIANS (per population)... then is it ECONOMIC or CULTURE or DISCRIMINATION?

If it is ECONOMIC,,, why do ASIANS do better in $ and schooling?

If it is CULTURE,,, why do ASIANS VALUE education and responsibility more than do BLACKS?

If it is DISCRIMINATION,,, why are not the ASIANS also DISCRIMINATED against?

scooter pt 1
1st off
4 million of 40 million is a sad number and many AA ask themselves those questions everyday. Im not disagreeing whether it is a high number or not. But 10% is 10% of a relatively small population. 10%is considered working poor, another 4 million. Thats a lot of people. But, the U.S. population is 300,000,000.If we are talking about 8 million people on the fringes of society, umm, that seems about logical compared to this. If you were to count the percentage of whites in prisons or who have been convicted, it may be 2% of the white population, but there are more caucasians than everyone else, so in real numbers, that may even outnumber other ethnic groups.

scooter pt 2
Now to address why asians do better than blacks

my takes

For an immigrant to migrate they decide for the most part that:
THEY WISH TO ASSIMILATE

This matters because, if you are fleeing a political situation (my country sux, the U.S. guarantees freedoms),have been used to being in the majortity and never lived as a minority (having pride in your culture), and have been educated, then you too can make it here, as long as you decide to chuck your customs and adopt American ones.

For natural born citizens who do not wish to assimulate to the status quo, they become:
shiftless, lazy bums, who may become criminals.

The AA criminal element CHOOSE NOT TO ASSIMULATE. You'll have to ask them whether cultural, economical, or discrimination has played a part in their choice. I'll bet that most of them will tell you that they saw no benefit in emulating those who don't want them here in the first place. Some never can see the big picture.

CRIMINALS ARE NOT GOING TO ADOPT THE STATUS QUO
now that is very obvious, but if criminals across the board, from every race and creed have that in common, this is not a black issue, this is what criminals do.

Asians, have been discriminated against however, but they do not have the UNIQUE victim mindset that some AA adopt because of the REASONS stated above.

Now lets talk about the 80% of blacks who have assimulated...

Shane
I'm all for discussing the 80% of BLACKS who have assimulated....

Unfortunatly (for them) they continue to VOTE and support the DEMOCRATIC party of RACIAL PREFERENCES... Why is it necessary for RACIAL PROGRAMS of any kind when 20% of BLACKS are the problem, 1% of ASIANS, and 10% of HISPANICS?

The BLACK community regularly VOTES for DEMOCRATIC RACIAL PROGRAMS in about 80%...

Why can't all our programs be tailored to ECONOMIC factors and not RACE? Would not this also help that 20%? And don't you think the DEMOCRATIC PARTY does this on purpose? They won't get the BLACK community to look at DISCRIMINATION if the PREFERENCES are based on how POOR they are...
THUS,,, the DEMOCRATS dividing the country by RACE and picking up the 80% BLACK vote along the way.


Do you really believe that a 5th generation Black child (in this country) knows anything about whether his ancestors were brought here willingly? Who teaches him this if so.
Do you think this BLACK child has a better chance at success in AMERICA vs. AFRICA? Who gains $ and power by keeping the BLACK community in the UNIQUE mindset that RACIAL PREFERENCES are NEEDED. (rememeber 80% vote DEM)

In EVERY other race,,, White, Hispanic, Asian, the longer you are here the better you GENERALLY do. People usually do better than the GENERATION before them. (i'm sure BLACKS are too,,, but on a much LOWER scale than ASIANS)


Shane cont.
In conclusion, the COLOR of CRIME is % overwhelmingly BLACK because the BLACK community is LEAD to believe that DISCRIMINATION has any MEANINGFUL effect on thier SUCCESS. The group responsible for LEADING them to believe this is the DEMOCRATS,,, who NEED thier 80% vote, and JESSIE and AL who NEED thier $. They have had more GENERATIONS in this country and in greater #,, but because THEY as a CULTURE don't refute the RACIAL PREFERENCES THEY as a CULTURE will ALWAYS be way behind the other RACES curve. FOREVER. SAD.

Asian success (better than whites) proves discrimination has no meaningful effect. If the Black culture could copy the Asian, they would see the same results. (so would the white culture as a matter of fact).

Scooter/1
Yes, the majority of blacks (for now) vote democrat, but this demographic is indeed changing.

Thanks to the internet, blogs, and other reliable sources of information, many upwardly mobile AA are conflicted by the Democratic party, its history, as well as its lack of real solutions. If you have the time check out Booker Rising as well as its links and other Republican or independent AAs who denounce the Democratic party on a daily basis. These days, the breakdown may go 60/40. Don't assume that the 80% of folks are all die hard, they may have disliked the choices present at hand.


Hate to say this, but just like old racists, many of the die hard democrats are up there in age, and will die off soon. The 20% as discussed above will continue to vote if they vote as they do for the same reason that is addressed above- again, some will never see the bigger picture,they think they cant change their situation on their own. This is sad, but there is nothing you or I can do to make these people and other stubborn people change. Many younger, successful folks choose independent status as opposed to Dem or Repub. Since we have been voting for just under 50 years now,I see this as progress...


scooter/2
The Republican party has work to do if they want votes,for the most part they act as if they could be care less if blacks vote in the first place...
BTW,the party of Lincoln thing, its not working,and I have never seen anyone worthwhile challenge Jesse in a debate on TV, yet ya blog about him like theres no tommorrow...(Stop the talking points and get in our faces, if you are truly about progress)

The problem that I have with racial preferences is that even if you have been tenacious and hard working others will assume that you have some kind of set aside working in your favor. Most of the 80% get that, EVERYONE has to work hard, so stop assuming that those who have gotten ahead asked for some sort of gimme...(We pay taxes like everyone else and moan just as loud when big govt. wants to give our hard earned $$$ to lazy shiftless bums like everyone else!!!)


scooter/3
For your other post:

There is NO black community....(Yeah, I said it)
The majority do not live in those crime infested, ghetto areas, these are the 20% i.e. 8 million poor folks we are talking about. I'd like to see how a population of 40 million are dispersed in major city GHETTOS (LOL). Think about the news stories you have seen, now think about the locale...
Most AA find it ironic that whites are paranoid about areas of town YOU DON'T FREQUENT ANYWAY!!! (turn off the telly, you'll live longer!)

Unfortunately, criminals don't really make that much robbing other poor people, so they target a different demographic, a truth that has been reality since the dawn of time...(Thats why you gotta love the right to bear arms, if you choose to)

The BLACK COMMUNITY (which are signal words that you hear when you are about to get hit up for money or sympathy)you are referring to
all hang with either Jesse or Al
AND
are all OLD...(check the footage, seriously)

Not to disrespect these older people but, I cannot expect these folk who were around in the Civil Rights era to collectively change their minds about white people. They have legitamate stories. Their children may have accepted or rejected their notions. And so on and so on.

BUT:
the majority of the 80% REJECTS the outcome of the Civil rights movement (the set asides part)
Live in EVERY part of town
Owns a business or has a decent paying job
Integrates with whites on a daily basis.

Since slavery was part of American History it is taught as such everyday. However, in saying that, I think it is the parent's responisbiliity to buffer that info and give their child a sense of pride. That knowledge without a parent to help you cope with it can be a potential disaster.


thanks
OOPs

Sorry about that double post, and thanks for your willingness to chat.

Shane

Thanks shane
gotta agree with what ya got.....

1 difference... the opinion of these OLDER CIVIL RIGHTS folks can and would be changed if they just compared the success of the ASIAN race and how they accomplished it....

As long as the NAACP and other race baiters counter without recognizing the success of other MINORITIES then you are correct about them never changing.

HEAD NODDING YES!
100% AGREED!!!
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