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Tuesday, February 27, 2007
Pat Buchanan :: Townhall.com Columnist
Free Trade and Funny Math
by Pat Buchanan
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To the devout libertarian, free trade is not a policy option to be debated, but a dogma to be defended. Nowhere is this more true than at that lamasery of libertarianism, the Cato Institute.

But with America running the worst trade deficits in history, the monks are having a hellish time of it. Hence, like the neocons who cherry-picked the intel to stovepipe to Scooter to bamboozle us into believing national survival hung on invading Iraq, they feed us irrelevant truths and deny us the whole truth.

Case in point -- the Feb. 22 column in The Washington Times by one Daniel Ikenson, "associate director at the Cato Institute's Center for Trade Policy Studies." Bewailing the "barrage of hyperbole and misinformation about trade and its relationship to jobs and economic growth," Ikenson assured us, with impressive statistics, that globalism is working out wonderfully well for America.

"(T)he Census Bureau data show that U.S. export growth was phenomenal in 2006, increasing by 14.5 percent. ... Exports to Europe increased by 15.2 percent and to China by nearly 32 percent. The growth in exports to Japan was a slower 7.5 percent, but it grew. Since 2001, U.S. exports have increased by more than 42 percent."

Wow. Phenomenal indeed. And it does sound like we are cleaning those foreigners' clocks. But Ikenson ignored the other side of the ledger.

That the U.S. trade deficit in 2006 rose to an all-time record of $764 billion. That the deficit in goods hit $836 billion. That the deficit with China rose 15 percent, from $203 billion in 2005 to $233 billion in 2006, the largest trade deficit ever recorded between two nations. That the deficit with Japan rose to $88 billion, the largest ever between us.

Under Bush, the U.S. trade deficit has set five straight world records, as has the U.S. trade deficit in autos, parts and trucks. So reports Charles MacMillion of MBG Services, who has for years tracked the decline and fall of American manufacturing.

For manufactured goods, our trade deficit rose to $536 billion, from $504 billion. In Bush's six years, America has run a total trade deficit of $2.6 trillion in manufactured goods, as 3 million U.S. manufacturing jobs have disappeared and wages in that sector have fallen 3 percent in three years.

Query to Ikenson: If these numbers represent a successful trade policy, what would a failed trade policy look like?

Recall NAFTA. In 1993, we had a trade surplus with Mexico. Some of us warned it would be gone with the wind if NAFTA passed. And NAFTA did pass, through the collaboration of Clinton Democrats with Gingrich Republicans, over the opposition of the American people.

Since 1994, we have run a trade deficit with Mexico every year. In 2006, it hit a record $60 billion. Grand total: almost $500 billion in trade deficits with Mexico since NAFTA. Mexico now exports more than 900,000 vehicles to the United States every year, while the United States exports fewer than 600,000 cars and trucks to the entire world.

This is success?

Where did Mexico get an auto industry? Is it good that our auto industry is being exported? Has the price of a new car plunged because Mexicans get paid a fraction of what U.S. autoworkers earn?

"In 2006, the U.S. economy grew by an additional 3.4 percent," writes Ikenson. True, and China's economy grew by 10 percent -- and by 140 percent over the last 10 years, tripling the growth in the United States. Not only are we shipping factories, technology, equipment and jobs to China, we are exporting our future to China. Nor should this shock any student of history. For contrary to free-trade mythology, every nation that has risen to pre-eminence and power -- Britain before 1860, the United States from 1860-1914, Germany from 1870-1914, postwar Japan, China today -- has pursued a mercantilist or protectionist trade policy. Economic nationalism is the policy of rising powers, free trade the policy of declining powers. For great powers have ever regarded trade as an arena of struggle in the clash of nations. It is no accident all four presidents who made it to Mount Rushmore were protectionists. "Thank God I am not a free trader," wrote Theodore Roosevelt. "Pernicious indulgence in the doctrine of free trade seems inevitably to produce fatty degeneration of the moral fibre." Think Teddy might have had a point, Mr. Ikenson? Probably not. For libertarianism is an ideology, and evidence that contradicts the dogma of an ideology is to be disregarded or denied. For the dogma cannot be wrong. Indeed, should Ikenson awake from his dogmatic slumber and decide that free trade is failing America, he would not last long as associate director of the Cato Institute's Center for Trade Policy Studies. The folks who fund Cato are not paying to have dogma debated, but defended. For if the dogma be untrue, then the ideology, the whole system of beliefs, the faith itself, is called into question. And we can't have that.

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About The Author
Pat Buchanan is a founding editor of The American Conservative magazine, and the author of many books including State of Emergency: The Third World Invasion and Conquest of America .
 
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Buchanan Should Read some Adam Smith
Nothing, however, can be more absurd than this whole doctrine of the balance of trade, upon which, not only these restraints, but almost all the other regulations of commerce are founded.

AMERICA IS CHOKING ON IMPORTS
AMERICA IS CHOKING ON IMPORTS

Does anyone think this selling off of our Country to cheap foreign slave labor markets is stainable?

EC-Motor vehicles again topped the import charts in 2005 with $142,842,000,000 ($142.8 billion) of imports according to recently released statistics from the US Department of Commerce. Fully 39% of US dollars spent on motor vehicles were spent on imports – not including those not counted as imports as produced domestically by foreign-owned parents. This represented a 6% increase in percentage consumption of motor vehicle imports by the US over 2004.

Other notably high sectors included computer equipment import consumption, which rocketed to 79% imports, apparel consumption at 75% imports, and audio and video equipment at 90% imports. Technically, footwear ranked highest in terms of percentage of US consumption spent on imports at over 92%.

Also, for the first time, semiconductor consumption in the US was over 50% imports as was communications equipment (53%). Consumption of imported pharmaceuticals increased 5% to 32% imports. Electrical equipment consumption increased 9% to 40% imports.

READ MORE http://www.controlcongress.com

NEIL SHOULD READ ADAM SMITH
CHEAP GOODS FROM CHILD AND SLAVE LABOR

Economist David O Rear has ask me this question “who’s labor or environmental standards should be the ones America demand the world follow”?

MY ANSWER

As far as labor and environmental standards in trade deals. This can be negotiated in any trade deal with a factor used to equalize the difference. In the business world we call this horse trading.

Your view as well as Bush, Clinton, Gore, McCain…. Of turning a blind eye to Countries that are controlled by brutal dictators is not free market economics according to Adam Smith. The father of free market economics Smith was a big advocate of human and labor rights, which economist like you never mention nor teach! BTW this debate about cheap goods at the expense of exploitation was had in our own COUNTRY during the time of the civil war years.

FROM THE AMERICAN CIVIL WAR (member of History Channel)

“While some in the North hated slavery because they felt that it was wrong, most people held no opinion of it at all, and some even condoned it because abolishing it would be bad for business”. “Without slaves there would be no cotton. Without cotton the textile industry would suffer”. “To many it was just that simple”.

We also had the debate about child labor and sweatshops read the Jungle by Sinclair.
BTW our economy did fine after freeing slaves and stopping child labor abuses.

FREE EDUCATION FOR NEAL
The 18th century economist Adam Smith noted the imbalance in the rights of workers in regards to owners (or “masters”). In The Wealth of Nations, Book I, chapter 8, Smith wrote:

We rarely hear, it has been said, of the combinations of masters, though frequently of those of workmen. But whoever imagines, upon this account, that masters rarely combine, is as ignorant of the world as of the subject. Masters are always and everywhere in a sort of tacit, but constant and uniform combination, not to raise the wages of labour above their actual rate…

[When workers combine,] masters… never cease to call aloud for the assistance of the civil magistrate, and the rigorous execution of those laws which have been enacted with so much severity against the combinations of servants, labourers, and journeymen.


Neil
The thing is, NAFTA, CAFTA, GATT and OMAN are NOT free trade. Yes, they're referred to as "free trade" agreements, but that is a misnomer.

I think some of these articles may interest you from the Mises institute:

http://www.googlesyndicatedsearch.com/u/Mises?hl=en&submit.x=0&submit.y=0&q=nafta

merry-go-boy
I think Americans just really do not believe it can happen HERE. They are sadly mistaken.

When are Going to Get the Sack, Pat?
It appears to me that Pat, you are about up to your neck in "it." Bartlett was canned for using similar language to describe Republicans and the fundamentals of the CFR. How long do you have left with your tenure with Townhall? Bashing the policies of the Bushes, Clinton and the CFR can"t be good music to the Townhall ears.

John Konop aka Lou Dobbs
"The father of free market economics Smith was a big advocate of human and labor rights." Well yes, anyone who believes in free market economics is an advocate of human rights. The market economy is a necessary condition to a free society.

"Does anyone think this selling off of our Country to cheap foreign slave labor markets is stainable?" The premise is clear: whenever foreign labor is used to product what American workers could produce that practice should be stopped.

Well if we should keep all the jobs that produce goods and services for Americans in America, then perhaps we should keep all the jobs that produce goods and services for New Yorkers in New York and not outsource any to Connecticut. And keep all the jobs that produce goods and services for Manhattanites in Manhattan and not outsource any to Brooklyn. If all the states in the union operated as different nations with their own trade policies would greater prosperity have resulted? A reasonable person would not agree, and if you expand the logic the U.S. would not be better off either.

Liberty and Free Trade
Quite right, Liberty, but I doubt many in the opposition here are going to read those Mises articles, so I'll put it succinctly:
Free trade is when individuals and corporations in this country are free to do business with individuals and corporations in other countries without restrictions, quotas, supports, subsidies, and tariffs, with the exception of Customs Duties which are necessary to pay for Customs inspections.
NAFTA etal do impose some of the above, so are not by definition, true Free Trade.

Neil Sounds like a Kid
I find it strange how educated people like you argue like my kids. You want to frame the argument as to protectionism or trade.

Why not a third way which Adam Smith would support. If we are trading with Countries that have basic human rights standards and a real economy (first world) we should have no subsidies or tariffs.

If we are trading with Countries that have no labor, legal rights, health and safety and environmental standards set a tariff high enough to not reward their behavior.


As far as cost of products verse wages, if wages keep dropping faster than benefit of price break this is not good economic news.

We should measure the health of the economy not on GDP but on real wage growth and saving rate.

I made my money fixing companies from guys who think growth is better than profits. The reason a guy like me makes more money than a lot guys much more educated than me is I learned a simple concept that you cannot make up a losing formula with volume.

I guess they do not teach that in MBA School.



two way street
Free trade is only free trade when it is a two-way street. Personal experience working in the Caribbean Basin demonstrates this clearly. Money may flow into those small countries but not out. Their economies suffer and our is benefited a little if at all.

A true free trade agrrement need contain only one sentence: There are no barriers to trade between our two countries.

Proof of concept: Phase one is the USA. When the barriers to trade between the states (countries at the outset) fell, the USA's economy took off. Phase two is Europe.

Pat is articulate about one thing that is terribly important. The USA is getting a raw deal from too many of our "trading partners."

The Value of Trade Deficits
I do not understand the opposition to trade deficits. Consider the following look at deficits versus surpluses:

John Doe in the US buys a product or service from Joe Smith in Japan with US dollars. Joe Smith now has a wad of US dollars. There are three things he can do with those dollars:
1) use them to buy from Fred Doe in the US
2) stuff them under his mattress
3) buy US corporate or government securities

In the first instance, the trade balances.
In the latter two, Joe Smith now has an economic interest in the US. It is in his interest to see the US dollar remain strong, the political goals of the US achieved, for otherwise the dollars he holds will decrease in value. If he is a rational person, he will not act contrary to those interests.

Consider trade surpluses:
John Doe in the US sells a product or service to Joe Smith in Japan. He now has a fistful of Yen. His options and interests are now the same as the reverse; he is not concerned so much with the health of the US economy, rather with the health of Japan's economy. Besides, it's a riskier proposition for him, as historically, the Yen has been more volatile than the dollar, and he may lose his Yen if North Korea detonates a nuclear weapon in the Sea of Japan.

Now which would you have, a trade deficit, or a trade surplus? People in foreign countries acting to bolster the US economy, or us working to bolster foreign economies? Take your pick.

Free Trade, God's Gift for Man's Labor
I had Pat and Shelly to my house and raised money for his campaign in ‘06. Pat is a great guy. But economics is not one of Pat’s strong suits. Free trade goes back to early man and God. The issue is did God give man the right to his labor? If so he can dispose or trade it as he deems in his best interest. I grant that libertarians are no moralist but they at least understand the right of man to the God given fruits of his labor. Our founders stated that government is instituted to protect our God given labor, (Declaration of Independence).

People will not trade with anybody, neighbor or China, unless he gains advantage. Thomas Sowell points out that our economy has done its best when our trade deficits are the worst and vice versa. Why, because that is when the greatest amount of advantage to both parties is taking place and vice versa.

As I have written previously, there is no such thing as a trade deficit. When you buy something from China you deliver your labor stored in dollars and they deliver goods. There is no trade imbalance, no different than when you give similar dollars to your grocer. “Trade deficit” should be better called the physical goods timing deficit. Such timing with China is no more evil then when the elderly fail to convert all the money markets, saving accounts and pension plans into physical goods.

Sowell has written much on the import/export net gains over a 20 year period that AmeriKa has enjoyed. He points out that if you say, I won’t buy foreign, then foreign will say I won’t buy AmeriKan and both lose the advantage of trade with each other. Imposing restrictions is not a solution to solve this imaginary problem.

Drezner debunks the myth of our loss in manufacturing jobs to China etc., buy pointing out that the US has lost a lower percentage of such jobs than China and Brazil for example. Pat’s claim here is as silly as saying farming has lost 96% of its jobs in the last 100 years. The reality is that farmers and US manufacturing are putting out more goods than ever before with less labor. This is a worldwide phenomenon. As labor becomes more expensive through unions, laws and federal mandates, companies merely automate more.

And Pat discusses the UN alphabet soup, NAFTA etc as being free trade. By definition this is an oxymoron. “Free” trade means I trade freely and therefore once you introduce a third party it becomes anything but free.

Pat continues with industry moving off shore because of labor and it isn’t helping us because China is growing at 10% and we are growing at 3.4%. This is arguing a symptom as the cause, if not that then the worse being that his premise is his proof. He quotes Teddy Roosevelt and gives some statistics. Well, I go back to the founding fathers and the Boston Tea Party. The question again is do we own our labor granted by God or does the givernment own it. AmeriKa is not a geography, as that geography has changed dramatically in our history no different than Britain’s. AmeriKa is an ideal, a belief system. If such is being violated by our new King George, then companies will take the stored labor of shareholders and hold a Boston Tea Party by moving and protecting that labor offshore. Companies don’t just move because of the cost of labor, it not enough economic gain to offset the higher attending costs. They move, as Drezner says, to buy cheaper government. The reason China is growing faster than the US is they have embraced the economic concepts that support growth. The US to the contrary has the highest corporate taxes in the free world, has a legal system that would strangle a whale, has a political system that is destroying the economy while at the same time blaming corporate AmeriKa for the results of political policies. Then, the politicians go on corporate witch hunts to take attention off their failed policies.

Pat argues that the symptoms are why China growing 10% and why AmeriKan companies are forced to leave. But we don’t have a trade problem we have a DC political problem. We can have 12% growth tomorrow if we let the Taliban blow up DC.

I pray the DC tea party continues, so that the God given labor of true American ideals will be protected from the evil King George. Pat is merely mouthing the DC political distraction that the evil companies are the problems rather than the symptoms.

A kid smarter than you
"If we are trading with Countries that have no labor, legal rights, health and safety and environmental standards set a tariff high enough to not reward their behavior." The only way the countries you are talking about can achieve the standards/benchmarks you want is by participating in the global economy and trading. Trade is what creates the efficiencies which allow nations to become cleaner in the first place. I read several articles talking about how China is cleaning up their environment. This is no surprise.

"We should measure the health of the economy not on GDP but on real wage growth and saving rate." I guess you didn't go to grad school. Wages rise when employers compete over workers in a flexible labor market. This happens when labor markets are tight. Historically, this means an unemployment rate under 5%. The best way to get the unemployment rate low (tight labor market) is to pursue policies that grow the economy. The growth of the economy is measured by GDP.

Neil uses Enron Math
Neil

If we grow while National and personal debt is out of control how is that a heathy economy?

BTW THAT IS HOW ENRON GOT IN TROUBLE!!




Is Cheney betting on Economic Collapse?

Deskjockey why is Cheney betting against the dolllar?

Is Cheney betting on Economic Collapse?

Deficits do matter and Cheney has invested his money accordingly. Cheney also does not think trade debt is a big issue. If VP Cheney is so bullish on the economy why is betting his investments against our economy?

http://www.controlcongress.com

ICH-Wouldn’t you like to know where Dick Cheney puts his money? Then you’d know whether his “deficits don’t matter” claim is just baloney or not.

Well, as it turns out, Kiplinger Magazine ran an article based on Cheney’s financial disclosure statement and, sure enough, found out that the VP is lying to the American people for the umpteenth time. Deficits do matter and Cheney has invested his money accordingly.

The article is called “Cheney’s betting on bad news” and provides an account of where Cheney has socked away more than $25 million. While the figures may be estimates, the investments are not. According to Tom Blackburn of the Palm Beach Post, Cheney has invested heavily in “a fund that specializes in short-term municipal bonds, a tax-exempt money market fund and an inflation protected securities fund. The first two hold up if interest rates rise with inflation. The third is protected against inflation.”

Cheney has dumped another (estimated) $10 to $25 million in a European bond fund which tells us that he is counting on a steadily weakening dollar. So, while working class Americans are loosing ground to inflation and rising energy costs, Darth Cheney will be enhancing his wealth in “Old Europe”. As Blackburn sagely notes, “Not all ‘bad news’ is bad for everybody.”

This should put to rest once and for all the foolish notion that the “Bush Economic Plan” is anything more than a scam aimed at looting the public till. The whole deal is intended to shift the nation’s wealth from one class to another. It’s also clear that Bush-Cheney couldn’t have carried this off without the tacit approval of the thieves at the Federal Reserve who engineered the low-interest rate boondoggle to put the American people to sleep while they picked their pockets.

Reasonable people can dispute that Bush is “intentionally” skewering the dollar with his lavish tax cuts, but how does that explain Cheney’s portfolio?

It doesn’t. And, one thing we can say with metaphysical certainty is that the miserly Cheney would never plunk his money into an investment that wasn’t a sure thing. If Cheney is counting on the dollar tanking and interest rates going up, then, by Gawd, that’s what’ll happen.

The Bush-Cheney team has racked up another $3 trillion in debt in just 6 years. The US national debt now stands at $8.4 trillion dollars while the trade deficit has ballooned to $800 billion nearly 7% of GDP.

This is lunacy. No country, however powerful, can maintain these staggering numbers. The country is in hock up to its neck and has to borrow $2.5 billion per day just to stay above water. Presently, the Fed is expanding the money supply and buying back its own treasuries to hide the hemorrhaging from the public. Its utter madness.

Last month the trade deficit climbed to $70 billion. More importantly, foreign central banks only purchased a meager $47 billion in treasuries to shore up our ravenous appetite for cheap junk from China.

Do the math! They’re not investing in America anymore. They are decreasing their stockpiles of dollars. We’re sinking fast and Cheney and his pals are manning the lifeboats while the public is diverted with gay marriage amendments and “American Celebrity”.

The American manufacturing sector has been hollowed out by cutthroat corporations who’ve abandoned their country to make a fast-buck in China or Mexico. The $3 trillion housing (equity) bubble is quickly loosing air while the anemic dollar continues to sag. All the signs indicate that the economy is slowing at the same time that energy prices continue to rise.

This is the onset of stagflation; the dreaded combo of a slowing economy and inflation.

Did Americans really think they’d be spared the same type of economic colonization that has been applied throughout the developing world under the rubric of “neoliberalism”?

Well, think again. The American economy is barrel-rolling towards earth and there are only enough parachutes for Cheney and the gang.

The country has lost 3 million jobs from outsourcing since Bush took office; more than 200,000 of those are the high-paying, high-tech jobs that are the life’s-blood of every economy.

Consider this from the Council on Foreign Relations (CFR) June edition of Foreign Affairs, the Bible of globalists and plutocrats:

“Between 2000 and 2003 alone, foreign firms built 60,000manufacturing plants in China. European chemical companies, Japanese carmakers, and US industrial conglomerates are all building factories in China to supply export markets around the world. Similarly, banks, insurance companies, professional-service firms, and IT companies are building R&D and service centers in India to support employees, customers, and production worldwide.” (“The Globally integrated Enterprise” Samuel Palmisano, Foreign Affairs page 130)

“60,000manufacturing plants” in 3 years?!?

“Banks, insurance companies, professional-service firms, and IT companies”?

No job is safe. American elites and corporate tycoons are loading the boats and heading for foreign shores. The only thing they’re leaving behind is the insurmountable debt that will be shackled to our children into perpetuity and the carefully arranged levers of a modern police-surveillance state.

Welcome to Bush’s 21st Century gulag; third world luxury in a Guantanamo-type setting.

Take another look at Cheney’s investment strategy; it tells the whole ugly story. Interest rates are going up, the middle class is going down, and the poor dollar is headed for the dumpster. The country is not simply teetering on the brink of financial collapse; it is being thrust headfirst by the blackguards in office and their satrapies at Federal Reserve



Pat Buchanan
should not be on Townhall.com. TH seems to have gotten rid of Bruce Bartlett, another former conservative. Now it's time to get rid of Pat. He never should have been invited to contribute to TH in the first place.

Looks like I spoke too soon -
Bruce is still here as well. Has be come back around to rationality?

Neil
Adam Smith's advocacy of free trade was based upon the benefits of comparative advantages of each trading partner. It was not supposed to work by rent seeking as we see today.
In a truly global free trade economy there would only be two comparative advantages for each locale. One would be the natural resources available at that locale. The other would be the cost of transportation into and out of that locale.

Pat's phoolery
I am amazed at just how many people in this world function just as if they had independent brains with independent thought. Yet what comes out of their mouths and out of their fingers makes it so clear that they haven't a clue.

Gentlepeople, it is government, and its purchased protection, that has caused every single thing you call a problem. OUR GOVERNMENT!!! There is no such thing as free trade in the USA and never has been, it has been regulated from day one. Pat likes to talk about history but he doesn't mention the fact that in more than one instance small places like the City State of Genoa, Venice, Holland, where trade came the most close to "free", those peoples prospered abundantly at all levels of their societies.

Get government out of the market and trade totally, push it back to its constitutional limits where both the employer and employee can claim protection from physical harm or abuse on the one hand and criminal actions on the other and there would be no unions and no forced labor. No unions and the resultant artificial driving up of costs and prices to cover their demands and there would be no exodus of manufacturing to other countries.

That stupid idea that government has to step in and forcefully suspend the rules of competition all to cover the butts of those who won't compete but want the rewards is why we have problems in the market and in our trade.

In my opinion Pat, like many rabble rousers, makes a good living from saying and doing what he does, but I don't think he is really stupid enough to actually believe it himself.

What is being traded
How do we benefit from free trade if the biggest item we are trading is a debt instrument; the dollar? Why do you think it is called a deficit? Because we are exchaning a debt instrument for a good or service? What is being bought? Sometimes they buy our capital assets. Sometimes they buy capital assests in another country, in which case the debt is simply passed on to another which we still have to redeem.
In short, as has been written by my betters, we are essentially trading off our ability to produce as long as there is a deficit.
That is why a trade deficit is not good.
There are those who say that that the Chinese are "investing in America". Exactly. They are buying U>S> Wonderful thought.

John Konop and Pat B
Wow! A lot of moronic commentary there! Pat is always whining about the "three million lost jobs" in the auto industry ... the last data I saw was that the average cost of an auto worker was now over $70 per hour! Anybody think that's going to lead to our general prosperity [as opposed to the union laboror's]? Pat and the many other morons who support this, would lead to many citizens unable to afford an auto ... and to shoddy construction, as we had before they received the wake-up call from foreign competition! But then, you may want an inferior product, sold to you by a surly industry on a take it or leave it basis ... as for me, I like economic freedom to spend my money as I see fit!

Exporting Our Future
Pat's right on with this column. Starting with the idea of free trade and conforming America to it is the reverse of how policy should proceed. The well-being on America should be considered first, and our trade policy should aim toward the common good of our nation. It is our people, our homes, and our country that we should promote. Borrowing the format of someone far wiser than I: the nation was not made for a trade policy, but a trade policy should be made for the nation. And if our trade policy results in shipping away our ability to make the things we need, we are no longer economically sovereign over our own affairs and have started becoming a vassal state to the global economic organizations and forces.

Thank God Pat Buchanan is not a free trader. I just wish more would follow suit.

USA sold out to the Dollar
The nations founders had looked to tariffs and import taxes as a major source of the Federal Revenue. In that primitive time, the prosperity of American Business and labor was considered a thing worth promoting.
Of course now we have Global Trade and what is good for Global trade must be good for everybody.
American labor is losing all the ground it gained over the last 100 years due to 'free trade' Why indeed pay a US tradesman $20 an hour when you can outsource to India and import the same product at a cheaper bottom line? If it is good for business it is good for America.
Sure there are a lot of jobs opening up at places like Wal Mart or K Mart or Bozo Mart, but do they pay a 'living wage'?
Read Barbara Ehrenreich's fine book "Nickle and Dimed", to get a good feel for the growing service economy.
Thank you Pat Buchanan.
Preach it brother!

Mongo and censoring Pat
Hey there, if Pat's arguments are faulty, you have ample room to demonstrate the flaws in his logic.
If you cannot do that, do you prefer to silence him and enjoy the freedom from his challenge to your opinions?

Konop.... yawn
"If we grow while National and personal debt is out of control how is that a heathy economy?

BTW THAT IS HOW ENRON GOT IN TROUBLE!!"


Enron got into trouble because of its fraudulent criminal activity.

Idiot.


Everyone should go to Fletch's blog to see Konop (and by extension other economic ignoranuses such as Buchanan, merry_go_boy, etc) get folded, spindled and mutilated on this very topic.


duncan hunter
I don't quite understand Mongo's antipathy to a true American. It was my privilege to support Mr. Buchanan, whose family, Pat included, was active in Accounting, and I believe still are, though I may be mistaken. Unalloyed free trade can be too much of a good thing, and I respect Mr. Buchanan's ability to argue the point. The best candidate in the Republican race is also mature enough to realize that there are fair trades, and then there are giveaways. Ben Franklin had a way of telling both sides of an argument. I commend his autobiography, in toto to Mongo and others. Duncan Hunter thinks things through, knows where he stands, and has what we need in a President. So does Pat, whether Free Traders think so or not, in my humble opinion.

Cheney's conspiracy?
Thanks for the information, Mr. Konop. I never realized that Cheney was so cunning! Imagine, using all his intelligence, power, and influence to steer our economy into a position where he can invest all his millions in relatively low-paying bonds instead of high-paying investments earning much higher rates of return. Yep, absolutely brilliant! I suspect he is now trying to figure out how he can get all those millions into a 2% savings account. Boy, what a killing he will make then!

John Konop
I really wish that Hillary would share her secret for turning 1000 dollars into 100,000 almost overnight with me. Seems to be a better investment scheme than Cheney's evil conspiracy.

HUNTER 2008
Everyone who cares about the future of this country and their family should look carefully at this candidate. If we continue down the path we are on we will be owned by the Communist (am I the only one who remembers?) Chinese. Even before they call in the debt they hold we will turn ourselves into a banana republic with no rule of law if we don't get control of our borders and enforce our immigration laws. Wake up America, while there is still time, tick-tock.

NO MORE COFFEE
Since we can't grow it here. We shouldn't drink the stuff unless it's grown in greenhouses and costs $50 a pound. And if it tastes horrible, tough.

NO MORE TRADE.

A Tarriff Is A Tax On Americans...
...which isn't necessarily a bad thing, in fact, I think a low, uncomplicated tarriff applied evenly across all imports is a good way to raise revenue (certaintly better than the income tax).

But keep in mind, a tarriff on foreign cars just allows US car mfgers to raise prices, so they get more $$$ and you get less $$$ to keep.

The trade deficit is at an all time high and unemployment is super low, so I don't see why the trade deficit by itself is alarming.

If we want to increase the US's global competitiveness, lets lower taxes and regulations instead of erecting barriers that could be retaliated against.

-Tony

P.S. Of course China's economy is growing at a faster rate, they were basically starting from ground zero thanks to years of strict Communism.

Five Stars For Buchanan
"...lamasery of libertarianism..." Such brilliance and alliteration not seen since the colorful Spiro Agnew left political office. This is the kind of writing which improves the mind, and is a pleasure to read.
By now, Americans have gotten the message that we are being destroyed by the hostile corporate takeover of our government.
Free trade is a tool of the elite, to gain control over the entire planet. David Rockefeller has admitted as such.
As nations fall to the guest worker and free trade, the ascendancy of Big Brother is enabled.
George W. Bush is doing a superb job of destroying America, by exporting our factors of production to the Third World.



Depends on what "is" is
John Konop writes:

“Deskjockey why is Cheney betting against the dolllar?.... Is Cheney betting on Economic Collapse?”

Did you read the title of the article? In this case “is” isn’t the Klinton (sic) definition, but one of question. From the little I know about DC, he probably has a blind trust and doesn’t make any of those decisions. Many folks including myself have been in tax free bonds for decades. I do it because givernment (sic) is the safest and best growth industry in the world. I don’t do it because of the deficit, the debt, the dollar or because the economy is going to hell. Maybe Cheney’s advisors have the same reasons I do?

Bush’s investments are also known, why didn’t they provide that, it being much more indicative. Well I suspect it didn’t comport with the purpose of the article. The article is a typical rant clothed in economic words for legitimacy. This is a common tactic with Krugman and the like.

The guy even gives Cheney the credentials that he wouldn’t pluck down money on something that wasn’t a sure thing. Maybe Cheney should become the next Peter Lynch when he leaves office and make billions for everybody.

Remember Martha Stewart along with Sam Waskal of Imclone, sold the stock at its low because of their great inside knowledge that it is going bankrupt. They go to jail, and the stock takes off like a rocket after they sell.

Here is advice an old trader gave me when I was Accounts VP of PaineWebber now UBS some 35 years ago. “Never listen to experts”. It has always served me well.

The article is complete nonsense of speculation with the premise being the proof.

Some ideas on trade.
1. The U.S. should trade freely with first world
countries.

2. The U.S. and other first world countries
should enter into agreements with developing countries to set a minimum wage of I'd suggest
$3 A DAY and with a % increase, I'd suggest
7% a year in exchange for free trade.
This would, I believe, do more than any
foreign lending we've ever done to raise
people out of poverty and to buy more of our goods. This is called in the business world
doing well by doing good.

3. Everyone everywhere should have the right
to move where they want. Thus, all states need
to make laws that allow people from everywhere
to migrate to their land. The same way
businesses can do. The law of supply and
demand cannot operate without freedom of
movement. (I find it embarassing that
businesses can usually move wherever they
want, but labor, individuals, cannot!?)
Thus, states, including the United States,
should be able to make laws of all sorts but
not laws that restrict individuals' freedom
of movement. Obviously, individuals or
members of groups that aim to or violate
other's rights would not be able to have
this freedom of movement.

(3A. The inalienable right to pursue
happiness through movement (voting with one's
feet) cannot violate the alienable right to property. These two are not mutually
exclusive.)

4. Penalize firms and/or countries that violate
human rights, enviro, labor standards. This
would be a tarriff and perhaps complete restriction on trade until conditions improve
or are changed.

I suggest to you these changes would go a long
way to changing the way the U.S. is viewed in
the world. And also raise living standards
across the world. Lastly, I believe it would
help our trade deficit.


Why pay more?
One thing Buchanan never seems to be able to answer is why we should be forced to either pay far higher prices, or, alternately, to receive a much lower pay? If China is willing to sell us goods at a fraction of the cost it would be if we made them here, where's the problem?

The United States still remains, by far, number one in total production. That we consume far more than we produce is tantimount to the fact that we are the richest, most productive nation this planet has ever seen, not that we are on the verge of economic collapse. As has been pointed out numerous times, just look at the rest of the modern-world nations that run deficits and surpluses. With the exception of China, nearly every other nation on the planet currently running a trade surplus is sitting in the middle of economic stagnation (see the EU, with the exception of Spain and the UK -- both of which are running deficits and are experiencing expanding economies).

Buchanan often has some good ideas, but his ideas in economic issues are so archaic it is amazing he still has a reading audience.

randomthoughts
I haven't seen anyone say we shouldn't trade with other countries. We were doing so, long before NAFTA, CAFTA

randomthoughts
(cont'd)

What makes you think we need a ruling body such as the World trade organization, separate from our own Congress, to be able to trade with other countries?

By the way, the Mises institute, which is a big supporter of free enterprise and free trade, is also against these non-free trade agreements.

http://www.mises.org

paleo-cons
everyonesfacts:

I think you have just suggested everything that we should absolutely not do. in fact it sounds like a list of things that make the least sense. I would remind the many dinosaurs on this page that it is foolish to propose solutions based on 1950's economic thinking in 2007. The world has been intergrating for decades and we can't ignore that. It changes the way we have to look at economics. the most perfect example is that the trade deficit is more a reflection of the overall strengths and weaknesses in a global economy than a result of our policies. I noticed that buchanan didn't address our services trade surplus(a reflection of the changing nature of our economy) nor did he deal with the consumer side of the equation which benefits directly from the fact that we can import cheap goods more and more easily. U tell someone in the ghetto that they have to pay more for food and basic goods because of your own misguided policies and that you want to feel good about yourself. This is the kind of thinking that people exhibit when they only consider how the producer is affected by trade and refuse to look at the consumer side of the ledger.

1)For someone who seems so concerned with labor standards that seems an odd idea. Free trade and interaction with first world countries is the best way to improve the standard of living in poorer countries. It is not a coincidence that those countries who have traded freely have experienced strong economic growth, increases in per capita wealth and numerous other benefits, while those that have remained closed off have not. There are so many studies out there on this that it is almost non-disputed (although some still argue over methodology)

2)I can't think of a worse idea. We dictate a wage that should be paid in a poor country based on what we (in rich america) think is an appropiate wage. Yeah, those people will really love us as they lose their jobs (which go to someone who pays even less, probably china). By the way most export industries in poor countries pay a higher wage than those in industries that do not export.


cmbennett23
I'm not sure where we disagree in the overall
picture? I do not care about trade deficits
but I do care about federal budget deficits.
Thus, though I believe my proposals will help
our trade deficit I do not particularly care if
they do.

your point #1 seems to ignore my post all
together. I am for free trade.

We disagree on your point #2. I believe
a wage, again starting at for arguments sake
$3 a day with set % increases will benefit
industrializing and non-industrializing
countries. It could also help multi-nationals
in their use of different suppliers (countries),
albeit not as much as paying someone $1.60
a day. I don't see why China should be
excepted.

I believe I am looking at the producer and
the consumer. They are the same person are
they not?

Liberty
The failure of the WTA or other bureaucracy is not a failure of free trade but of implementation. Pat always goes for tariffs and protectionism, more bureaucracy. NAFTA, etc. is a small step in the right direction, not Pats calls for restrictions on what car I can drive. That's no better than the eco-terriorists.

Rather than complain about jobs going to Mexico, invent more products for them to import. The best way to end the Mexican illegal immigration problem would be to improve their economy so the economic pressure to come here would lessen. (Would require Mexico to move to a more capitalistic society)

I'd rather see trading partners to compete with than Fortress America stuck with poor goods and poor choices.


free trade and wages
everyonesfacts

sorry, i was trying to respond to your point as well as other comments throughout the article. I am glad we both agree that free trade is beneficial. i also agree that budget deficits are a bigger problem because they are a direct reflection of our policies, where a trade deficit has to do with a myriad of factors.

There are enormous problems in including labor rights and enviromental standards in free trade agreements. For one, we often have unrealisticly high standards that would bankrupt a poor country. If we impose those standards, business and other countries will just go somewhere else with lower standards.

second, we cant arbitrarily set wages in other countries. For one thing, the market must set the wages in order to reflect what a fair wage is in that country. $3 may not seem like that much, but it is well above the average hourly wage paid in most industries in countries like those in central america. Policy makers in washington are far less equipped to be able to determine the correct wage then are employers in central america for example. For one thing the price levels are very different and $3 goes a lot longer in central america than in the US. Setting wage floors in our FTA's is the least efficient way to go and will only result in countries refusing to sign agreements and then no one is better off.
more importantly, if we burden companies in central america (as an example) with labor rates and enviromental standards that we deem acceptable, then those companies will move their operations to areas where there is less restrictions ie china. As we saw with the debate over CAFTA, the apparel producers in central america were having a hard enough time competing against china as was, by including excessive labor standards or if we had set a certian wage, then they would just go out of business and then all the jobs would be lost to china and nobody would be better off. In a perfect world we could get all countries to agree to some base level of standards (although that too would be inefficiently arbitrary) but to do so, while other countries have no standards is not a smart policy.

The obvious response to the $3 rate is why not $5 or why not $20? The answer demonstrates the absurdity of us setting what we think(arbitrarily) to be the most acceptable price. We dont have to consider the relavant conditions on the ground.

yes all producers are consumers, but not all consumers are producers (of the relevant manufacturing goods that would be affected by a trade agreement) therefore in the discussion of trade people tend to over emphasize the costs to producers (a very small minority) and under emphasize the benefit to the consumers (we are all consumers in one form or another)That was my only point about that.

Yeah, free trade is all good
No problem with China owning half of the American economy.
Is there?

"World stocks plummet on China woe
Global stock markets have slumped, with the US Dow Jones index plummeting by more than 400 points and London's FTSE 100 index also posting sharp losses.
The sell-off was sparked by a near-9% slide on the Shanghai Composite Index, as investors worried that China may pass rules to limit demand for stocks.

The Dow Jones fell more than 500 points at one point, before closing down 416.02 points, or 3.29%, at 12,216.24.

The FTSE 100 closed on a fall of 2.3%, or 148.6 points, to 6,286.1.

Elsewhere on Wall Street, the technology-laden Nasdaq index closed down 3.86% at 2,407.87, while the S&P 500 index closed down 3.47% at 1,399.04."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/6400789.stm

Personally I would rather rise or fall on our own merits but then I'm just silly that way.
Just because America is supposed to be independent, that's no reason to expect her to be independent. Right?

Move along folks nothing to see here
China's trade surplus jumps 67%

China's trade surplus jumped 67% in January, a development that is likely to increase pressure on Beijing to allow its currency to float freely.
Last month China exported $15.9bn (£8.2bn) more goods and services than it imported, compared with $9.5bn for the same month a year earlier.

Although the rise was inflated by seasonal factors, the West has long said the yuan is undervalued.

While Beijing denies this, a low yuan makes Chinese exports cheaper.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/6353183.stm

Do we have control of the dollar? NO.
Does China manipulate the Yuan? YES.
Get a clue!

Berry
So you would rather have contol over all the of the economy one tenth the size than participate with 25% of an ecomony 10 times the size.

Where do you get your buggy whips repaired?

And China manipulated a 9% drop in their stock market?

a little context
Berry,

we know we know, the chinese are going to take over everything and own our entire economy, even though our economy has grown (20%) by the entire size of the chinese economy over the last five years.

but wait, didn't we fret about the same thing during the 80's. Oh no thats right, that was Japan not China. History most certainly repeats itself.

Anyway there are valid concerns about china, but that has very little to do with free trade. remember that we have trade surpluses with most (if not all) of the countries that we have signed free trade agreements with. The idea that free trade agreements create these trade deficits is a little bizarre.

"And China manipulated a 9% drop in their stock market?"

that doesn't make much sense, I agree with randomthoughts.

china's military might
merry go boy:

our military can strike anywhere in the world in a matter of days, while China can't project most of its military might more than 100 miles away from the mainland. I dont see them being able to beat us militarily for a very long time.

what is interesting is that the threat from China might actually be better related to the trojan horse analogy. The only way they can beat us is by infilitrating our systems through espionage or trickery. Just a thought.

randomthoughts
What is 25% of a negative number and how does that compare to 10% of a positive market?
A bigger market? So what!
A bigger market is not an automatic winner for America.

Any bunch of fools can spend money on bad investments.
Expecting a return on bad investments isn't foolish, it's stupid.
For transnational corporations (who have loyalty for currency, only) the wide open global market is a boon.
For Americans, it's stupid.

cmbennett23
China owns 300 billion in US treasury securities.
We also lost 274 billion in trade deficit.

That means we lost the interest on the securities (to a foreign power) and the tax base on the trade imbalance.

China manipulates the rate that the Yuan trades for and has now learned how to fluctuate that rate without having to raise the price in order to carve out an even larger piece of the world pie.

Or did you think todays 9% deflection (that rippled the entire world and sunk our market 500 points), was an accident?

More likely the incident today was a token reminder, don't rock our apple cart.

Economic nationalism
"we are exporting our future to China."

Indeed, instead of protecting our industrial life, we seem anxious to create rivals for ourselves. If a rich cultural group provides a poor one with the capital and knowledge necessary to become an industrialized country, it should be apparent that the rich one will find it hard to compete with the poor cultural group and that the labor in the rich cultural group will suffer greatly from the unrestricted competition of the poor one. Economic internationalism may, in all probality, even lower the standard of living throughout the world.

Back to eco 101

“….. we are essentially trading off our ability to produce as long as there is a deficit. That is why a trade deficit is not good.”

Folks, I continue to read all these comments and clearly folks still don’t get some basics. THE US DOES NOT TRADE WITH CHINA. US citizens trade with Chinese citizens. These citizens don’t need to demand min wages or environmental laws from their counter part no more than when you buy your neighbors used car you must demand he raise his wife’s clothing allowance and paint his house to make the world a more environmentally aesthetic.

There is nothing wrong with rent seeking. Offshore activity is as patriotic as the Boston Tea Party. The Tea Party was about rent seeking the cost of givernment (sic) because 24% was too high for the product being delivered. Certainly our founders would be rent seeking today at a 50% cost. We have the highest cost in the Western world. Notice none of these folks claiming global trade is detrimental or evil ever suggest we solve the problem of run away givernment so that AmeriKans don’t have to rent seek. These are the same folks who buy stuff on the Internet to avoid their countries (one of the 50 states) sales tax. I ask why do you rent seek on the Internet, and did you harm your country when you had that extra gain to purchase more goods and services.

Next fallacy, “we are trading a debt instrument…..why do you think it is called a deficit”.

Well this is mixing up two completely different issues and putting them into one transaction.

Transaction: I purchase a Chinese LCD monitor from Mr. Wong. I deliver $100 of my labor to Mr. Wong in a universal form of dollars and he delivers the monitor. This transaction is identical to the grocery transaction, the gas station transaction and the doctor transaction. In all cases I deliver dollars of my labor and they deliver product.

CAN SOMEBODY EXPLAIN WHERE THE DEFICIT IS CREATED?

Another transaction: The grocer, doctor, gas guy and Mr. Wong decide to take my dollars and buy US treasuries and corporate bonds. Does the givernment and the companies gain any value by having my stored labor available to them today, when needed, in the form of dollars? Obviously they do or they wouldn’t sell the IOU’s in return for the labor stored in dollars. Does the grocer, doctor, gas guy and Mr. Wong gain anything in this trade of my labor for the IOU? Obviously they do or they wouldn’t buy the IOU. They earn a return on providing and renting my labor.

CAN SOMEBODY EXPLAIN WHERE THE DEFICIT IS CREATED.

Yet we call my delivery of $100 to Mr. Wong a deficit even though I worked for that $100 dollars and he worked for his monitor to deliver to me.

THE TERM DEFICIT merely mislabels the failure of Mr. Wong to “immediately” demand a physical product in return. In other words we can only comprehend barter of goods but once currency is introduced as a universal store of labor thinking shuts down or we believe stored labor has no value when represented by a piece of paper.

LABOR IS A PRODUCT, EVEN WHEN STORED IN DOLLARS. Banks sell you that product for a price.

Finally, Sowell has debunked the evil global trade arguments that persist. Because he is rightly respected herein I suggest folks read:

http://jewishworldreview.com/cols/sowell090904.asp


I believe Drezner has done a wonderful job in explaining this issue also.

http://www.foreignaffairs.org/20040501faessay83301-p0/daniel-w-drezner/the-outsourcing-bogeyman.html

Here is an excellent explaination I found on the deficit by Townhall contributor Reynolds.

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/AlanReynolds/2006/06/22/our_capital_account_surplus

I would be eager to learn of any error of the above gentlemen.


Dear Liberals
Since you missed Economics 101 in HS, here is a link to a guy who knows economics, having been a successful Venture Capitialist for a few decades.

http://polecon.townhall.com/

Do try to learn something from it nimrods.

Bingo!
"LABOR IS A PRODUCT, EVEN WHEN STORED IN DOLLARS. Banks sell you that product for a price."

Thanks for solving the mystery of why our Government won't be sending any illegal aliens home, at least not en masse.

More chattel, more debt. Or, more debt, more chattel.

Amoral pursuit of wealth
We have Multinational Corporations who are truly above the law. Whatever laws are in place for our nation are hardly binding on the big boys.
People might flinch about shopping at Adoph Hitler's Lawn and Garden Center, or perhaps Al Capone's One hour Photo, yet that is exactly what you do every time you buy an item made in the worker's paradise overseas. And what is it like to work in China or Burma or Cambodia in one of these sweat shops?
Well, it is not pretty.
Just think about it.
Every dime you spend on foriegn serf made hardware goes to promote the tyranny of labor abuse.
There is no such thing as a neutral choice in life.
I am sure that you could get a good by on a VCR out of the back of a station wagon on Saturday night if you have cash ready to go, but where do you think it came from?
Is it any different to patronize these Box Stores with Made in China hanging over the entrance?

Muscat
Labor in the countries you mentioned are not in a state of serfdom. They are not compelled -against their wills- to work for any of these companies. Secondly, they can own private property; all of which is purchased with the wages from their labor. I don't know of many serfs who historically had claims to private property.

Now, their conditions may be deplorable in some cases, but that is the responsibility of their parent government to correct. Secondly, I would ask "How deplorable were their living conditions before they received a job at the local factory?" If you want to lift these people out of poverty, then universal protectionism is most definitely *not* the answer.

Finally, It is ridiculous -but typical of the ignorant- to compare companies that move overseas to Nazis. No corporations are systematically exterminating whole ethnic groups, nor are they making lampshades out of the skin of low-skill labor, nor are they even compelling people to work against their will. Corporations leave this country because economically ignorant Americans vote for politicians to impose excessive labor and environmental regulations upon them. Then, when they do go overseas and begin to produce the same high quality goods for a much lower price, the entire American consumer base has to be punished for the sake of a small group of special interest labor.

And why? So we can pay a small select group of laborers an income that is considerably higher than the true market value of that labor. No thanks. America does not have to shirk from competition. It's a shame that Buchanan and the paleocons still preach that protectionism is the way to greater prosperity for most Americans.
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