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Friday, April 24, 2009
Oliver North :: Townhall.com Columnist
Between Barack and a Hard Place
by Oliver North
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WASHINGTON -- At times during our history, international events have provided starring roles for American presidents. Teddy Roosevelt received the Nobel Peace Prize for negotiating an end to the Russo-Japanese War. John Kennedy's pledge of solidarity, "Ich bin ein Berliner," offered hope to captive people behind the iron curtain. Richard Nixon's "secret" trip to Beijing precipitated still ongoing changes in the People's Republic of China. Ronald Reagan's tough diplomacy -- and his decision to rebuild America's defenses -- turned the tide of the Cold War and hastened the end of an aptly named evil empire.

Then there are world events that consumed presidencies and doomed them to failure. Woodrow Wilson's ill-informed dream of preventing all wars, with the League of Nations, became a nightmare. Lyndon Johnson's hope of being remembered as a civil rights reformer died with his disastrous decisions on the battlefields of Vietnam. Jimmy Carter's naked quest for a "peacemaker's legacy" always will bear the miserable taint of his bungling during the Iranian hostage crisis. Now, with less than 100 days in office, Barack Obama already seems destined for this latter category.

The opening months of the Obama administration's foreign policy have been marked by stunning naivete, serious missteps and ideological blindness to hard realities in an increasingly dangerous world. It is now an open question whether he and his "national security team" can recover.

Just days after becoming commander in chief, Mr. Obama acquiesced in Beijing's demands that U.S. vessels cease surveys within Chinese territorial waters. Russia rebuffed his "hand of friendship" and bribed Tajikistan into closing a U.S. base crucial to operations in Afghanistan. Pakistan replied to his "mutual respect for Islam" by allowing the world's most notorious nuclear weapons proliferator, A.Q. Khan, to return to business as usual. The Iranians sized up his offer for direct negotiations on nuclear weapons by turning on more centrifuges and locking up an American journalist. His "apologize for America first" tour of Europe brought cheers but no new commitments from NATO for help in Afghanistan. He was applauded for promising to close the Guantanamo Bay detention facility, but then he learned no one else would take the terrorists housed there.

Mr. Obama's release of top-secret Bush administration documents on interrogation techniques -- and his botched determination on whether to hold show trials for those who authorized such efforts to prevent further terror attacks -- shocked allied intelligence services. His performance at the Summit of the Americas in Trinidad brought accolades from the mainstream media, but it disheartened those in Cuban, Venezuelan, Nicaraguan and Bolivian prisons who have committed no crimes except to speak out against their governments.

In Trinidad, Mr. Obama sat quietly -- and, apparently, attentively -- through a mind-numbing anti-American rant by Nicaraguan President Daniel Ortega, during which the Sandinista leader accused the U.S. of heinous crimes. When it was over, Mr. Obama was asked his opinion. He replied, "It was 50 minutes long." No rebuttal. No defense of America or his predecessors' efforts to offer others the hope of freedom.

When Venezuela's Hugo Chavez gave him a homework assignment -- to read the virulently anti-American screed "Open Veins of Latin America" -- Mr. Obama accepted it with a smile for the cameras. Perhaps we should be grateful that he didn't bow to Mr. Chavez, as he did to Saudi King Abdullah. Rep. Mike Pence of Indiana, a member of the House Foreign Affairs Committee, described the Obama-Chavez photographs as "an enormous propaganda victory for the Socialist dictator." They were also another stab in the back to former President George W. Bush, whom Mr. Chavez once called "the devil" in the U.N. General Assembly.

The Obama administration's penitent foreign policy is evident in its approach to the U.N. and the International Criminal Court, which is a U.N. body hostile to American service members -- the same ones the Obama administration describes as "Disgruntled Military Veterans." America's new willingness to be pilloried publicly was apparent in Geneva this week at the U.N.'s Durban Review Conference on racism.

There the "star performer" was Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, with whom Mr. Obama wants to sit down and parley about nuclear weapons. Mr. Ahmadinejad's text accused the United States of "military aggression to make an entire nation homeless on the pretext of Jewish sufferings and the ambiguous and dubious question of Holocaust." His diatribe depicted America's closest ally in the Middle East as "racist perpetrators of genocide," and he said, "It is time the ideal of Zionism, which is the paragon of racism, be broken."

Though the U.S. delegation rightly did not attend this virulently anti-American, anti-Israeli bashing session, it is regrettable that the Obama administration has yet to object formally to the language or the "findings" of this U.N. conference. The deafening silence from the White House undoubtedly makes Mr. Ahmadinejad eager to get those nuclear negotiations on Mr. Obama's calendar of coming events.

Co-written by Thomas Kilgannon. Thomas Kilgannon is the president of Freedom Alliance and the author of "Diplomatic Divorce: Why America Should End Its Love Affair With the United Nations." He contributed from Geneva, where he is reporting on the U.N.'s Durban Review Conference for Radio America.

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About The Author

Oliver North is the founder and honorary chairman of Freedom Alliance and author of The Assassins .

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©Creators Syndicate
Fine article
I have only one suggestion regarding the closing of Gitmo and the detainees there. We have incarcerated Native Americans on "reservations" for over 100 years and subjected them to almost perpetual poverty even though many fought and died for the U.S. in every war of the last century.

Yet, these recent detainees at Gitmo are treated with more honor and dignity than our own citizens, including the so-called "torture". I propose we move the terrorist combatant detainees to a (fortified) reservation and use some of the money we seem to be printing at will to help the Native Americans become productive, self-sustaining citizens, moving them off of the reservation.

Let the terrorists try to exist on the reservations as the American Indian has done for generations. It seems fair to me.

Fine, but what do we do about it?
Unfortunately, we all get the government that an apparently uneducated, mis- or mal-informed majority of us, however small, vote for. But we are where we are, and talking is not getting anything done, so, what do we do to insure the survival of this great nation until we can get these bozos out of office?

America MUST PROSECUTE
FIRST, the straight-line-memos show how the "few bad apples" in our military followed these as approved and with knowledge of Rumsfeld and Cheney.
Some of those "bad apples" (soldiers who did not design these torture techniques and only followed orders) went to jail.
WHERE WERE THESE MEMOS AND FOOLISH REPUBLICANS TO AID THOSE MILITARY PERSONNEL?




SECOND, WE AS AMERICANS have a long history of PROSECUTING, our own and others, on our home soil and abroad, those who use waterboarding torture.
Since out troops were only following orders (and some did go to jail) it is time to prosecute those who authorized this torture.

Targeting difference
WB prosecutions were for use on POWs. The guerrilla-terrorist violators of the Geneva and Hague Accords who dressed as and hid among civilians--the crime of "perfidy"--don't get the same protections and rights.

The sooner, LoneBone, you and other moral-equivalantists stop pretending these are anything other than the most vicious of blood-soaked torture-murderers who are being stress-tested with wet cloths, the better.

Indian Reservations?
Indians are free to leave the reservation any time they wish to. I lived iin Kansas where there are four reservations and more indians (Native Americans) lived in Topeka kansas than lived on the reservations. I now live in Oklahoma and there are Native Americans everywhere and with their casinos and the white man's addiction for gambling most of these native Americans are doing quit well financially.

My questions are where are our Republican and Independent voices who on the steps of the House, the Senate, or White House are holding joint news conferences telling the American people about what change really is? Why is it that so few of them held prominent speaking positions at the tea parties? Are most of them just willing accomplices to this Radical agenda? Why is that we need their voices? We could and should be holding peaceful demonstrations all over the USA telling the news media that we are as mad as the Continental Congress was over the taking over of their country by higher taxes on everything they produced. We don't need to wait for the Fourth of July, we should be like the leftist, a steady drumbeat of 100 here and a thousand over there that are meeting in lawful assembly to say what we feel. Take pictures get them on the web. We don't have to have CBS; NBC; ABC; CNN; or the Fox net work to tell our joint stories.
We are fast becoming a third world country if this nonsence isn't put a stop to in legal, peaceful ways. Talk to the five neighbors we have. Drop a story line when you pay for your fuel, check out at the stores that you frequent. Many people are afraid to say what they feel until they know that there are others that agree with their unspoken feelings.

Ollie
You lost ALL credibility to address foreign policy through your failed Iran-Contra actions not to mention disgracing yourself

Tea Parties
Elected officials for the most part were either not invited or when they asked to speak they were graciously refused. Reason the tea parties were not there to criticize either party as individual parties. Rather they were there to show the disgust with the current policies to say to HELL with your children’s future. For the most part our elected officials have continually demonstrated their total distain for the opinion of the voters.

doofass-the-dimwit: I'm pretty sure

Col. North doesn't give a hoot what you think or have to say about him, or pretty much anything else!


YOU, doofass, lost ALL credibility to address anything at all!

Hal Doofass
STFU. Your drivel gets old. Is all of what North said a lie? That answer would be no. So instead of actually defending it, you choose to shoot the messenger. Typical you, hey?

Ollie, you forgot one

You forgot ‘Lil’ Kim Jong Dillweed launching over the heads of one of our staunchest allies, a “Satellite” to broadcast PRNK motivational slogans such as “Dog…the other white meat”, and ovomit can’t even muster up so much as a yellow sticky note saying “We the people of the world really really really wish you wouldn’t do that” because Russia and China thought it was one too many “Really’s”.

Heck, I get sterner looks from Mrs. Corndog for leaving the toilet seat up.

Hal Donahue
Oliver North is smarter than you. So is Ann.








Can we just strike up a chorus
of Kum Bye Yuh (eliminating references to "My Lord," of course), pass the Kool Aid, and light some candles? Add some smootching by our Smootcher-in-Chief, and voila! The problems should all be solved. International relations, Obama-style. And don't forget, he had several college courses in international relations!!

Nee
"Date: Apr 24, 2009 - 8:12 AM EST
Hal Doofass
STFU. Your drivel gets old. Is all of what North said a lie? That answer would be no. So instead of actually defending it, you choose to shoot the messenger. Typical you, hey?"

Oh no His history on foreign policy is very relevant. Yes most of what he said is completely wrong. We need to try and restore our alliances and military and political machinery which the failed bush regime left in tatters. This takes time and balance. It is about competence something most extreme conservatives do not understand

The USA is a laughing stock
thanks to President Obama.

In his first hundred days he has done more harm to the United States in terms of soundly corroded alliances, massive debt, degraded military capability, border violence, racist action fronts, public fawning and false bravado taken as weakness, than any other single person has ever done in our history.

In terms of debt alone we have not taken on such an obligation to pass on to our posterity that it surpasses all the combined prior administrations. Do you think that future generations, saddled with this debt will think highly of us or of him?

GW Bush was villified for bringing to the World's attention the evils of Islam. Future generations will be grateful for that if we are able to defeat it.

On the other hand, Obama will be remembered as the man who plunged a nation into the deepest debt ever in the history of all nations on the planet Earth, while alligning himself with political enemies and destroying the advances of the Civil rights movement in the US by fomenting rampant black racism.

He hates America and all that the Founders held dear. He is doing a good job of neutralizing Her power, and Oliver North has simply given some examples of recent enemy action taken against the USA by Her greatest enemy, Barak Hussein Obama.

Nee
"Date: Apr 24, 2009 - 8:12 AM EST
Hal Doofass
STFU. Your drivel gets old. Is all of what North said a lie? That answer would be no. So instead of actually defending it, you choose to shoot the messenger. Typical you, hey?"

Oh no His history on foreign policy is very relevant. Yes most of what he said is completely wrong. We need to try and restore our alliances and military and political machinery which the failed bush regime left in tatters. This takes time and balance. It is about competence something most extreme conservatives do not understand

Thank You Ollie!
I am always appalled at the leftist's who respond. It always has to be all about name calling or denigrating the other persons character, never about the facts. It seems that there are too many people who have lost the talent of logical thinking & evaluation but simply go right down party lines & agree with everything their party does, no matter how foolish or dangerous. This president is taking us off a cliff at break neck speed & no one seems to be able to get his attention. God Help US!

Mr Difar
"Date: Apr 24, 2009 - 8:54 AM EST
The USA is a laughing stock
thanks to President Obama..."

Oh being seen as a rogue failing nation was OK though? Get your passport (you do have one I assume) and go travel abroad. The change is amazing and good

"...In his first hundred days he has done more harm to the United States in terms of soundly corroded alliances, massive debt, degraded military capability, border violence, racist action fronts, public fawning and false bravado taken as weakness, than any other single person has ever done in our history."

LMAO all you list are a DIRECT result of Bush regime failures and incompetence. And now we have, as warned, Al Q and the Taliban gaining control of NUCLEAR Pakistan. There has never been a president, not even Carter, that was seen as weak and incompetent as the failed Bush.

"...In terms of debt alone we have not taken on such an obligation to pass on to our posterity that it surpasses all the combined prior administrations. Do you think that future generations, saddled with this debt will think highly of us or of him?"

Oh it will be think of you and your failed extreme conservatism that destroyed the free market and left the nation's physical and social infrastructure in shambles. The bill is coming due for your incompetence and we must start to pay it.

"...GW Bush was villified for bringing to the World's attention the evils of Islam. Future generations will be grateful for that if we are able to defeat it...."

Islam is as good a religion as Christianity and like that religion very dangerous in the hands of extremists look at the veteran Rudolph

"...and destroying the advances of the Civil rights movement in the US by fomenting rampant black racism..."

LOL oh I get it You think whites are "special"?


doofass-the-dimwit: YOUR Alzheimer's

is getting worse, day by day.

There is no question that you are:
bewildered
crazed
delirious
demented
disconnected
dotty
frenzied
irrational
lunatic
mad
maniac
maniacal
nuts*
unbalanced
unglued
unhinged*
whacko

But, that's what we expect of anyone who writes for Puff-ho! :-)


Col. North forgot how Obozo botched

the Capt. Phillips rescue!!!

1. BHO (Obama) wouldn't authorize the DEVGRU/NSWC SEAL teams to the scene
for 36 hours going against OSC (on scene commander) recommendation.

2. Once they arrived, BHO imposed restrictions on their ROE (rules of
engagement) that they couldn't do anything unless the hostage's life was in
"imminent" danger

3. The first time the hostage jumped, the SEALS had the raggies all sighted in, but could not fire due to ROE restrictions.

4. When the navy RIB (Rigid Hull Inflatable Boat) came under fire as it approached with supplies, no fire was returned due to ROE restrictions. As the raggies were shooting at the RIB, they were exposed and the SEALS had them all dialed in.

5. BHO specifically denied two rescue plans developed by the Bainbridge CPN (Captain) and SEAL teams.

6. Bainbridge CPN and SEAL team CDR (Commander) finally decide they have
the OpArea (Operating Area) and OSC (On-Scene Commander) authority to solely determine risk to hostage. 4 hours later, 3 dead raggies.

Another example of what happens when you have a community organizer trying to do a MAN'S job!!!



Thank God for our military and especially our SEALS!






Great Article
I have a great deal of respect for Ollie North.
Be afraid, be very afraid. America will be hit again.

Glass Bead Maker
"Date: Apr 24, 2009 - 9:49 AM EST
Great Article
I have a great deal of respect for Ollie North.
Be afraid, be very afraid. America will be hit again."

Now that we have stopped appeasing the terrorists and let them go you could well be correct sadly. The failed Bush left national security in shambles like everything else

Three Pines
Thanks for the update on American Indians and reservations. However, my point is that we are treating these combatant prisoners better than we treated the Native Americans for decades. It may have been poor example, but I just don't believe these detainees deserve better treatment than our own citizens and certainly don't deserve equal rights.

Doofass
I can't believe that you think we were appeasing terrorists and blame that on Bush.

WHO is APPEASING and APOLOGIZING for what AMERICA stands for you village idiot????

Better wipe the end of your nose off. I know you think Obama's shittt doesn't stink, but it wreaks.


Nee
"Date: Apr 24, 2009 - 10:30 AM EST...I can't believe that you think we were appeasing terrorists and blame that on Bush..."

We let Al Q and Osama (remember him?) go free to invade and destabilize Afghanistan to go play in the Iraq sandbox. There is no greater appeasement

"....WHO is APPEASING and APOLOGIZING for what AMERICA stands for you village idiot????..."

America doesn't stand for torture, war of choice and bullying. America stands for the exact opposite. After this failed bush regime, apology are indeed in order.


Okay Hal
So why are we cutting our defense budget?
Why did obama release the (supposed) torture memos? I use torture by our guys loosely, other countries think just clipping off a guys finger isn't to bad of torture.
Why, one day they are going to look ahead on this manner and 24 hours later they are going go get them all!
Sounds like someone's blackberry was vibrating and George S. was on the other end.
I hope they do it as queen nancy was in 80 meeting approving of the(supposed) torture.

Whats Wrong Today
We have become a Nation of Cowards , thanks to the idiots in Washington and the Bias News.Where has the American Honor and Pride gone ? We are slowly being sold out by most of our Politican's for their own benefits. They are making suckers out of left wing American's and bad mouthing the Right Wing American's for caring about what is happening in America.They haven't done anything about stopping American jobs from leaving America or Companys bringing in Foreign Workers for lower pay. That is a slap in the Face of American's. Our Grandfathers and Fathers fought in 2 Woorld Wars and sacrificed so much to give us the freedoms we use to have until the last 30 years that the Gov't has stuck their hands into every thing to destroy what was succesful. I fought in the worse war this country was in and was spit on for doing it , but I'm still PROUD of my Service to my Country. Those that seek to destroy America are those that don't care about our History or our Heritage , they only care about the MONEY and nothing else. Those of you who like your freedoms , but complain about the Right Wing American's , better wake up , because it is the Right Wing American's who went to the Tea Party's that care about and Love America , and we aren't about to sell out to a bunch of crying COWARDS..This is America , wake up and get some of your PRIDE and HONOR back. Isn't America worth fighting for ? God of Mercy on us with the idiots we have in Washington today.

Excellent Chronology !!
Col. North, thanks for all you do, and especially on Fox News, to put our troops first. Talking about Torture, try doing what it takes to become a United States Marine! I did, and I survived to live to be 61 years old. Oh by the way the last I heard those nice, sweet, Islamic/Muslim Terrorist who were subjected to this terrible thing called waterboarding are still alive too. Man are they tough!
Well the President has blinded half of America with his charm offensive, but I really thought when the Congressional Black Caucus visited Cuba a few weeks ago, that even the blind half of America could see the tenets of "Black Liberation Theology" being played out for them to see. You can see from some of the commenters that didn't work either. Have a great weekend Col. and keep on fighting. I think instead of waterboarding these nice people, we should head butt them. There are some people in America with some really hard heads!!!!
Semper Fi My Brother

doofass-the-demented: Strikes again!

"U.S. Thwarts 19 Terrorist Attacks Against America Since 9/11"

by James Jay Carafano, Ph.D.
November 13, 2007

http://www.heritage.org/research/HomelandDefense/bg2085.cfm

"Criticisms of post-9/11 efforts to protect the United States from attack range from claims that America is more vulnerable than ever to the contention that the transnational terrorist danger is vastly over-hyped.[1] A review of publicly available information on at least 19 terrorist conspiracies thwarted by U.S. law enforce­ment suggests that the truth lies somewhere in between these two arguments.

"U.S. agencies are actively combating individuals and groups that are intent on killing Americans and plot­ting mayhem to foster violent extremist political and religious agendas. A review of the data suggests several important conclusions:"

Cont....

Memos Support Prosecuting ALL...
...not just the selective political prosecutions we have had.

====

FIRST, the straight-line-memos show how the "few bad apples" in our military followed these as approved and with knowledge of those like Rumsfeld and Cheney.
Some of those "bad apples" (soldiers who did not design these torture techniques and only followed orders) WENT TO JAIL.
WHERE WERE THESE MEMOS AND COWARDLY REPUBLICANS TO AID THOSE MILITARY PERSONNEL?


SECOND, since we do have a long history of prosecuting this CRIME, and already convicted "a few bad apples" for their involvement, it's time to prosecute THOSE WHO AUTHORIZED THIS TORTURE.

====

doofass-the-demented whines :

"We let Al Q and Osama (remember him?) go free to invade and destabilize Afghanistan to go play in the Iraq sandbox. There is no greater appeasement."

NO, your boy billie clinton (remember him?) let Osama go! Really, he did!

"America doesn't stand for torture, war of choice and bullying."

Really??? You always forget that your dumbos signed onto the the war... and continued to allocate funds. (Remember that?) LOL

"After this failed bush regime...." Wrong again!

The Iraqi PEOPLE are happy we're there... and, I'll repeat....

"U.S. THWARTS 19 TERRORIST ATTACKS AGAINST AMERICA SINCE 9/11"

Suck it up, buttercup! :-)




And then what?
If we do away with our weapons arsenal, give Constitutional rights to enemy combatants, and turn the military into international caregivers, then what?

Do our enemies then love us and bestow gifts and great praise upon us? Or do they think, "hmmm, all those natural resources ripe for the taking! A nuke here and there and it's all ours?"

If the left's foreign policy mindset is taken to its ultimate conclusion, it would be an open invitation for our extinction. I, for one, do not want that door opened even the tiniest crack. However, Mr. Obama, through his naive appeasement policies, is doing his best to jar it open.

Americans need to wake up before the course of our history is irretrievably altered. Mr. Obama is not a messiah who will save us from destruction. His world view is creating policies that may well lead us over the cliff.

We are becoming more vulnerable with each passing week of his administration.






Now they are going to release pics
If they show pictures of the conditions the terrorist are kept, think they should release pictures of Cook county jail for comparison....
The terrorist have it much better then most American prisoners....

Eddie L
Would you by chance be from Algoa? I have a cousin with your initials, Marine also from there.

Hal Answer this
Scenario: A group of terrorist have hijacked a school bus with your son or daughter on board and is threatening to kill all the children if we don't meet their demands within a samll time frame. In the process we captured one of the terrorists during the hijacking.

So Hal what would you in your little liberal brain do?

A. Use enhanced interrogation techniques (water boarding, uncomfortable environmental conditions etc...) to obtain the location of the terrorists holding the children.

B. Meet the terrorists demands and hope they don't kill the children anyway.

C. Treat the captured terrorist as a criminal, mirandize him, and bestow upon him constituional protections. then charge him with murder after the kids are killed.

Remember, you and your ilk were foaming at the mouth asking Bush why he didn't do more to "prevent" 9-11 in the first place.

Don't chicken out and say I don't do hypotheticals.

Glass Bead Maker
"Date: Apr 24, 2009 - 11:00 AM EST
Okay Hal
So why are we cutting our defense budget?..."

Do we need a defense budget larger than the rest of the world combined? Why?

"...Why did obama release the (supposed) torture memos? I use torture by our guys loosely, other countries think just clipping off a guys finger isn't to bad of torture..."

This country has never supported torture even when an army from Canada burned the White House, the Civil War and WWII or the Cold War. Plain and simple it is neither reliable nor moral. Weaklings and people losing use torture plain and simple.



ADLoggy
"Date: Apr 24, 2009 - 12:28 PM EST
Hal Answer this
Scenario: A group of terrorist have hijacked a school bus with your son or daughter on board and is threatening to kill all the children if we don't meet their demands within a samll time frame. In the process we captured one of the terrorists during the hijacking.

So Hal what would you in your little liberal brain do?"

False choice this situation never happened. Sadly your black and white world doesn't exist. But even given that the answer is clear: whatever it takes and answer for it afterward

"...Remember, you and your ilk were foaming at the mouth asking Bush why he didn't do more to "prevent" 9-11 in the first place..."

He didn't do more because he was obsessed with bare breasts and morals downgrading counterterrorism as a priority.



american vet
"Date: Apr 24, 2009 - 11:04 AM EST
Whats Wrong Today
We have become a Nation of Cowards , thanks to the idiots in Washington and the Bias News..."

We were a nation of cowards. Too weak to demand action, instead saying the patriots will go shop and wear flag pins rather than go to war or send their sons and daughters to war. Instead you used the real patriots our military and kept sending them to war over and over. Cowards? look in a mirror

"...Where has the American Honor and Pride gone ? ..."

it died in an abyss of torture, willful war and alienated allies

"...and bad mouthing the Right Wing American's for caring about what is happening in America...."

You don't care and you proved that over the last eight years.

"...Grandfathers and Fathers fought in 2 Woorld Wars and sacrificed so much to give us the freedoms we use to have until the last 30 years that the Gov't has stuck their hands into every thing to destroy what was succesful. .."

This is exactly what you conservatives have wrought

"....I fought in the worse war this country was in and was spit on for doing it , but I'm still PROUD of my Service to my Country. ..."

The worst???? WOW You were spit on? When and where? Can you verify this? proof?


North: On the wrong side of history
You forgot to mention that Reagan was 'He Who Sold Weapons To Iran'. Talk about an enduring legacy...

Glass Bead Maker
"The terrorists have it much better than most American prisoners."

Don't give Mr. Obama any ideas. He'll nationalize the hotel industry and put our prisoners there. Makes sense since overtaxed or unemployed citizens may not be able to afford hotels anyway.

Hal's replies
"False choice this situation never happened."

Neither did the attacks on the bridge or the Sky Scraper out west. Point proven...Prevention vs. response.

"But even given that the answer is clear: whatever it takes and answer for it afterward"

Then you are a hypocrite for saying what Bush and the CIA did was wrong. Bush did whatever it took (and very little compared to actual torture) to successfully PREVENT another attack.

Your man Clinton was well practiced at responding to attacks after they happened. I like George's plan of prevent them before they happen better. So we differ there. BTW, I too would do whatever it took to get my children back.

Why do you continue to attack Ollie's character and support a buffoon like Murtha? That is hypocracy at its grandest. At least LTC North still goes into harms way to support the troops and tell about the great things they are doing whereas your man Murtha falsely and unrepentently accuses them of murder and other atrocities. Ask any Marine who they will still consider a Marine and the vast majority will say Oliver North and disavow ABSCAM Murtha.

Torture
Well gee whiz guys. The memo didn't reveal torture. It revealed an inconvenience and irratating detainment. Keeping those poor innocent young and old men awake for long hours. Threatening to put fuzzy wuzzy the catapiller in a room with a terrrorist with a demented mind (much like the extreme liberal mind) because he is afraid of stinging bugs.
Oh yea the catapiller wasn't put in the room.

And water boarding. Something, by the way, that Col North has endured as part of his military TRAINING.

Our enemies know what actual torture is. Ask Journalist Daniel Perle. Oh wait they killed him by cutting his head of with a not so sharp knife. And he didn't plan the World Trade Center Bombing, or car bombings and didn't cause children to strap on a bomb and blow up innocent people. He was guilty of nothing more than being an infidel in the wrong place. They didn't want to ask him anything.

I wouldn't even call the way we extract info from the hard core terrorist, Enhanced Interrogation Tactics. (If attaching electrical probes to their genitals is torture, I've only got one thing to add. Red is positive and black is negative) These people are not covered by the Geneva Convention. They are not fighting in a distinctive uniform with insignia, nor do they fight for a country. They fight to kill the infidel and they don't care where the infidel is from. And they kill their own. THEY ARE TERRORISTS

But, hey Hal. The Administration seems to be having problems finding a country that will accept the Gitmo detainees. Since your are so compassionate, why don't you tell Obama they can live with you. You could talk with them over breakfast and try your interrogation technique. Put your money where your mouth is, so to speak. (But you might hide your kitchen knives)

Thank You Col North for your Honorable Service in defense of our Nation and your insight into our "Clear and Present Danger".

Whatever, Ollie
The economy is starting to turn and President Obama's approval ratings are well above 60. Stick to "War Stories" which is fantastic reporting on your part.

Hald
Boy what a DOOFUS you really are ,I see why people call you that now.

He didnt do more because he was obsessed with Bare Breast and Morals of downgrading counterterrorism as a Priority. Wait you mean SMURTHA THE EX MARINE HATER didnt hurt the Morality of the TROOPS either by FALSELLY accusing them of Murder before they had been put on trial. Like FDR imprisoning the American Japaneese before they had a trial. You mean those MORALITIES.

Wow first I thought you were talking about Bush until I realised you were talking about CLINTON.
He was the one who BUILT the WALL to keep our FBI and CIA of assisting each other in their INTEL gathering an such, REMEMBER

SCUDDS AWAY, I think we ought to put Clinton in jail for Terrorising Monica by the illegal use of SCUDDING AN INTERN. I bet those CIGARS could be used by LIBS as a MEANS OF TORTURE IF BUSH AUTHORISED IT DONT EWE.


BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA


Torture
Very well said Jim in TX. Thank you.

Detainees & Torture
Jim Location: TX Reply # 4
Date: Apr 24, 2009 - 2:21 PM EST
________________________
Amen to that, Jim! The only thing I would change is since "we the people" have to pay for the detainees upkeep, there is plenty of room at the White House for them. And, throw in the auntie, too, being as "we the people" are paying for her to stay in the country. They can all party at the WH with BO, 1st-time-in-my-life-I'm-proud-of-America-wife, and oh, can't forget the mother-in-law! BO could share the East Room for daily prayers. All the muslims would get along fine and dandy.

On another topic, since BO wants to put on display our national security secrets and put our country in serious jeopardy by publishing the memos and now pictures, PUBLISH YOUR FRIGGIN' BIRTH CERTIFICATE! BO is not only arrogant and unamerican, but the most dangerous man on the face of this planet! Your cabinet picks display your ignorance and hate for America.

Carol #45
Excellent point: it seems the only national secret worth keeping, at the expense of how many millions of dollars to zer0bama's lawyers, is his birth certificate. While we are at it, what is the combination to Ft. Knox and what are the codes to launch the missiles? The lunatics are truly in charge of the asylum.

ADLoggy
"Date: Apr 24, 2009 - 2:18 PM EST
Hal's replies
"False choice this situation never happened."

Neither did the attacks on the bridge or the Sky Scraper out west. Point proven...Prevention vs. response."

LOL not true at all and the interrogator says cheney is lying. But even if he was not how many American soldiers did it kill How many people are now coming after us because our morals are no higher than terrorists. The failed Bush regime dragged the shining city on the hill down into the mud and slime. We have and are paying the price.

"But even given that the answer is clear: whatever it takes and answer for it afterward"

Then you are a hypocrite for saying what Bush and the CIA did was wrong. Bush did whatever it took (and very little compared to actual torture) to successfully PREVENT another attack."

LMAO I would do it I would NEVER order the country to do it. The CIA agents realised this that is why they resisted the best they could getting the failed regime on the record every step of the way

"...I like George's plan of prevent them before they happen better. So we differ there. BTW, I too would do whatever it took to get my children back."

george was weak and frightened and scared


ADLoggy
"...Why do you continue to attack Ollie's character and support a buffoon like Murtha? That is hypocracy at its grandest..."

No it is not at all. Ollie North disgraced himself and the marine corps when he violated his oath to support and defend the constitution. He could have told the truth or said nothing but instead he lied to cover his backside. He was convicted of felonies which he had overturned on technicalities with the help of the ACLU. He is just another convicted felon who got off on technicalities. Murtha was trying to show the troops were stretched too far and braking. The marines were not convicted because of insufficient evidence and were not found innocent. Over 20 civilians died

"...least LTC North still goes into harms way to support the troops and tell about the great things they are doing whereas your man Murtha falsely and unrepentently accuses them of murder and other atrocities..."

Ollie goes into harms way for CASH and lots of it.

"... Ask any Marine who they will still consider a Marine and the vast majority will say Oliver North and disavow ABSCAM Murtha."

Not the ones I know and not after I tell the rest of the story.

AMERICAN VET
american vet
Location: TX
Reply # 21
Date: Apr 24, 2009 - 11:04 AM EST
Whats Wrong Today

While reading your post today I could relate to your feelings and concern for our country. My husband is retired Navy, was also one of the brave Americans who was spit on when returning from Nam. This happened in that great liberal city by the bay. He and I have had many discussions about what is happening to our country today. While I rant and rave about everthing Obama and the congress does, he calmly states that when enough Americans get fed up, things will change and that we always have our vote. I respect him for what he has done for our country and admire all our courageous military men/women for the service they give. I still get a lump in my throat when our national anthem is played or the colors are passing by because I am proud to be an American. I had the honor to be a volunteer in the USA Peace Corps for 2/1/2 years to help others who are less fortunate than Americans. My assignment was in a former Eastern block country assisting in their transition from communism to a free enterprise system and the citizens of that country were elated to embrace freedom again and looked to America as an example.
The land from sea to shining sea is facing a serious threat today but I am confident that it will long endure as the America we know and love if we all stand up.
That is the only way it can survive and be the America our forefathers gave us.


doofass-the-traitor: Weren't North's

convictions were VACATED???

Why yes, I believe they were. MOVE ON you traitor!

Reba
My husband too, army nam vet. But he is really upset and keeps telling me, "honey the army have some orders they can and can not obey, even from the pres." God I pray so. I love this country and want my grandchildren to have their choices to make in their lives and not have them made for them.
God Bless our service men & women, serving and retired.
Father-in-Law: 10th. Mountain Italy with Dole
Grandfather; WW2, Cairo air
Father; Korean war
Husband; Viet Nam
Son: U.S. Coast Guard, Alaska

"Obama's Iraq Policy and a Surge of

Violence"

http://townhall.com/columnists/JillianBandes/2009/04/24/oba mas_iraq_policy_and_a_surge_of_violence

"On Thursday, Iraq suffered its worst death toll on a single day since the start of U.S. engagement there; 80 people perished after the supposed capture of Abu Omar al-Baghdadi, al-Qaeda in Iraq’s leader and one of Iraq’s most wanted men. On Friday, there was another attack almost as deadly; 60 people died and 125 were injured when two suicide bombers attacked a Shia mosque in Baghdad.

"This upswing in violence comes on the heels of Obama’s new policies in the Middle East, which call for a phased withdrawal from Iraq starting this summer and lasting until 2011.

"An upswing in violence is almost certainly related to Obama’s adjustments in troop numbers, but that doesn’t mean the country will necessarily return to previous levels of violence, said Thomas Donnelly, a resident fellow at the American Enterprise Institute. Donnelly said that increased violence is a cause for concern but that 'it’s not like we’re headed…to 2006 kind of low-grade civil war.'”


That's what you get when you elect a neighborhood organizer... Great huh?


Glass & Reba: Yes...OATH KEEPERS

"Military, Veterans, and peace officers who will honor their oaths to defend the Constitution, will NOT “just follow orders,” will stand for liberty, and will save the Republic, so help us God."

1. We will NOT obey orders to disarm the American people.

2. We will NOT obey orders to conduct warrantless searches of the American people

3. We will NOT obey orders to detain American citizens as “unlawful enemy combatants” or to subject them to military tribunal.

4. We will NOT obey orders to impose martial law or a “state of emergency” on a state.

5. We will NOT obey orders to invade and subjugate any state that asserts its sovereignty.

6. We will NOT obey any order to blockade American cities, thus turning them into giant concentration camps.

7. We will NOT obey any order to force American citizens into any form of detention camps under any pretext.

8. We will NOT obey orders to assist or support the use of any foreign troops on U.S. soil against the American people to “keep the peace” or to “maintain control.”

9. We will NOT obey any orders to confiscate the property of the American people, including food and other essential supplies.

10.We will NOT obey any orders which infringe on the right of the people to free speech, to peaceably assemble, and to petition their government for a redress of grievances.

"Not on Our Watch!"


Under Nuremberg Principle IV, "defense of superior orders" is not a defense

"The fact that a person acted pursuant to order of his Government or of a superior does not relieve him from responsibility under international law, provided a moral choice was in fact possible to him."

The United States military adjusted the Uniform Code of Military Justice after World War II. They included a rule nullifying this defense, essentially stating that AMERICAN MILITARY PERSONNEL ARE ALLOWED TO REFUSE UNLAWFUL ORDERS.


The Real Truth
LoneRules says "WE AS AMERICANS have a long history of PROSECUTING, our own and others, on our home soil and abroad, those who use waterboarding torture.
Since out troops were only following orders (and some did go to jail) it is time to prosecute those who authorized this torture. says "

I can only say this in response, and an open letter to Mrs Obama. The President has managed in 100 days to do the following:
Abandon the workers of the UAW and while doing so managed to make them understand that their leaders no longer work for themselves or represent the workers, instead have become slaves of the Government. Adding to this indignity is watching their leaders being humiliated in public. This after supporting the President in his election.
Your husband has humiliated the CIA and the men who kept this country safe. He has not stopped and will further try to humble the CIA until they either bend or quit. Why?
He has humiliated the Bankers who supported him in his getting elected and is making them bend in submission.
He has made this entire nation bend in humiliation as he apologised for us, without our consent, to the world.
He has chastised and made clear that the image of Christ is not welcome when he makes a speech, not one symbol and clearly continues to not only humiliate Christians but shows love for those that persecute Christians.
Your Husband is making very powerful enemies.

Shorts
What kind of fuzzy math are you using? Leave it to you to compare numbers of casualties AFTER the vast bulk of warfare has concluded with those numbers over the course of all hostilities. We don't trust your math on the military, the economy, the health under-insured, nor much of anything else.

Just look at the recent "adjusted" number for civilian casualties in Iraq - around 110K, not the 1.3 million the Left trumpeted without question from the MSM. Aren't you even the slightest embarrassed by this?

What am I missing?
Now Mr. Obama is going to release pictures to the world of so called torture in progress. This in addition to the previous release of enhanced interrogation techniques that have been employed,

In the past if any American had gotten hold of this info and covertly passed it on to the enemy he would be tried as a traitor and executed.

Somehow though, if one is elected President of the United States he can divulge whatever he wants---within 100 days! He can do this regardless of the inherent dangers to the country and regardless of the advice of four CIA directors including the present director.

Our present president has decided that he can do what no other president would ever think of doing----not even Jimmy Carter! And yet the media just thinks it is wonderful that he can be so transparent. However, when it comes to national security issues, transparency has never been high on the general population's priorities.

Our country is being put in much greater jeopardy for what can only be a political ploy to embarass the Bush administration and set the stage for possible prosecution. What Mr. Obama is doing is reprehensible and should in no way be lauded---not even by a fawning media and adoring libs. Their security and the safety of their families has been compromised.

What am I missing here?

You know,
if I'm not mistaken I'm quite sure water-boarding has been used in Bosnia, during Billy Boys term at the helm.
Haldipstick, You are still a worthless excuse for an American!!!

ANNE TERRIFIC POST!
However you said: "AMERICAN MILITARY PERSONNEL ARE ALLOWED TO REFUSE UNLAWFUL ORDERS."

The fact is that they are REQUIRED to refuse unlawful orders.



Three pines is right
Haul out the republicans. Get them on TV with a list of all the bone-headed things Obama has done and is doing.

The repubs need to spell out the problems and start to show the long list of errors just as this article does.

Whenever the repubs come out of hiding and say anything, it is to present a dumb plan of their own which is not quite as dumb as the DEM plan, but probably not a good idea nonetheless. Their housing plan comes to mind.

The dems are working over time to kill the economy, and pass every rotten bill they can. The Republicans seem to be out of the office, please call back later.

Torture
Keep me awake, turn on a bright light, water-board me 166 times (obviously not a fatal practice), but do not pull my fingernails out, or cut off any digits, or hang me from the ceiling by my arms tied behind my back,or wire my gonads for maximum electric induction or resistance, or as a last resort cut off my head with a dull knife. Noooo, please keep me awake, deny me some rations, play loud music; put me in the hands of American captors I like the American way of torture much better. I can live with that.

You know,
The nation that forgets it's defenders is doomed to be forgotten!!

Torture
I agree with the above, wholeheartedly...Torture for Americans is having Obama for president!

Anne,
Here's a good example of how much O-man cares about us. People In Texas are getting sick from swine flu that originated in Mexico yet he does nothing to secure our borders. Do you think if people here started to die from it he'd do anything? I don't! I don't think he cares a bit about us as a nation!!!

Obama not meet Constitutional criteria
Obama does not meet the criteria to be President under the U.S. Constitution. Why doesn't Obama release his college applications or his passport records? Because they will show that he is an Indonesian citizen. He never gave up his Indonesian citizenship when he returned to Hawaii from Indonesia at age 10. (Obama's mother remarried an Indonesian when Barack was five, and she and Barack moved to Indonesia when Barack was six, where both became Indonesian citizens). In 1981, at age 20, Obama traveled to Indonesia to visit his mother, and stopped off on the return trip to visit Pakistan with school friends. He traveled there on his Indonesian passort.

Why doesn't Obama release his original birth certificate? Because it will show that he was not born in Hawaii, rather he was born in Kenya (his father's native country). Either way, because he is an Indonesian, or because he was born in Kenya, Obama is not qualified to be President under the U.S. Constitution, as he is not a "natural born" citizen (or even simply a citizen). Obama and the leadership of the Democratic Party know this to be true, and they deceived the American people by not answering (and still not answering) these assertions by authorizing the release of the records. Mutliple legal cases are challenging Obama's status to be President. Check out- wnd.com or obamacrimes.info or defendourfreedoms.us. Spread the word, as the media REFUSES to cover this issue!

obama
obama is for obama. Don't let his words or actions fool you. No matter who he bows to or smiles at he alone is his sole interest. He is planning to end up at the top of the despot heap before it's all over. And he might--until Jesus shows up. So who's side are you on?

STUNNING NAIVETE
Mr. North, this is the perfect phrase. All we have heard is what a brilliant man Pres. Obama is, and this may be so (Harvard-ly speaking). However, what good is a 2000 IQ when there is no common sense? Does he REALLY think he can schmooze up to tyrants so they will "like" us again? Couldn't he at least have politely returned Chavez's book and said "Thanks but no thanks"?

I never thought I'd hear myself compliment a French leader, but even Mr. Sarkozy thinks the president is a nitwit.


Ollie North on National Security!
North is a discredited "pseudo-patriot" who has made a career out of his misdeeds. He clearly lacks any moral authority to lecture the President on foreign policy. Ollie probably still believes the Vietnam War was a good idea!
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