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Friday, March 20, 2009
Oliver North :: Townhall.com Columnist
The Burden of Battle
by Oliver North
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"To care for him who shall have borne the battle and for his widow, and his orphan."

WASHINGTON -- The Department of Veterans Affairs claims this is its "mission." The slogan -- extracted from the last paragraph of Abraham Lincoln's second inaugural address -- is inscribed proudly on metal plaques at the entrance of the VA's headquarters in Washington. The Obama administration made a mockery of this pledge by proposing to charge veterans' private insurance companies for treatment of service-connected injuries, wounds or sickness. Had the White House not rescinded this immoral and unethical proposal, the VA could have been sued for false advertising.

The "O-Team" claimed that charging veterans' private insurers for service-connected medical care would have "saved" $540 million. How they concocted this number is anyone's guess, but the affront offers a window into the kind of "thinking" going on in this administration.

It also started a wildfire among America's vets. Some described the proposal as part of "a conspiracy against our military." Veterans blogs cited administration deliberations on allowing U.S. military personnel to be prosecuted by the International Criminal Court, talk of allowing practicing homosexuals into the armed forces, and deep cuts in defense spending in the midst of a war as part of a pattern of anti-military bias.

Whether it is malevolence, ideology or incompetence that is driving these strategies, none of this helps recruiting or retaining the brightest and best-educated, -trained, -led and -equipped military force the world ever has seen. Had this ploy worked, the new recruiting pitch to some bright young person about to graduate from high school would have to include this warning: If you are wounded in the service to your country, we're going to make you pay for any medical care you receive after we get you off the battlefield.

On the same day that this "private payer for war wounds" travesty was being discussed at the White House, we also learned that $6.4 million of taxpayer money was given to an AIG executive as a "retention bonus." Apparently, the O-Team's half-baked idea for a military "retention bonus" was to have those wounded in war find private insurers to cover the costs of their service-connected medical care.

The scheme was dead on arrival. VA Secretary Eric Shinseki, who should have known better than to defend it, was raked over the coals in a House Veterans' Affairs Committee hearing March 10. At a White House meeting Monday, March 16, the O-Team -- with the man himself attending -- tried to jam the idea down the throats of Veterans Service Organizations.

By Tuesday, members of both houses and both parties on Capitol Hill were paying attention as the blogosphere filled with ire from veterans and their families. On Wednesday, House Republicans sent a letter to the White House denouncing the proposal as a breach of faith in "a solemn obligation to our nation's veterans." A few hours later, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi was applauded for announcing that the O-Team had "made the decision that the combat-wounded veterans should not be billed through their insurance policies for combat-related injuries."

Full disclosure here: I'm relieved because, among other things, I had a personal stake in the outcome.

According to the VA, my service-connected wounds and injuries amount to a 40 percent disability. I receive $541 a month from the VA as "disability compensation." Unlike civilian private-sector or government retirees receiving "disability," my military retired pay is reduced by the same amount.

Like most veterans, I now have a "civilian" job, which pays me a lot more to be shot at than the Marines did. My employer has a private insurance plan in which my wife and I participate. Under existing rules, the VA is required to pay for any medical treatment I receive as a consequence of my service-connected injuries.

The O-Team's proposal unfairly would have made our private insurance company pay for this care, even though neither my present employer nor insurer had anything to do with my being wounded in Vietnam. Like most private insurance policies, ours has a maximum benefit amount, which we could exceed if those old injuries required prolonged care. The prospect of my wife being unable to receive medical treatment because we had "run out of insurance" was too painful to contemplate.

Had the administration's despicable design succeeded, the burden on those wounded in the current war would have been unthinkable. The O-Team rescinded its shameful plot to make veterans pay for combat-related medical treatment, but only because Americans were repulsed by the idea. It remains to be seen whether similar outrage will be provoked by White House plans to burden our children with debt and use the tax code to wage class warfare.

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About The Author

Oliver North is the founder and honorary chairman of Freedom Alliance and author of The Assassins .

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©Creators Syndicate
Colonel North...

Thank you for your lifetime service to our Country.

May God always be with you and your family.


Colonel Thank you for your service.
You are a great american.

Thank you
Colonel, as always, a good article. Please keep up the good work.

Semper Fi

From commander in chief
to commander in thief.

Colonel North.........
Thank you for your service .
What are they thinking in DC.?

Ollie
If only the citizens were as responsive to other O Team outrages.

Colonel North...


Colonel North

Again I thank you.

I do notice that on every column you write, there is always something that slithers out from under a rock, to spit at you, and then magically gets back under the rock to prevent my boot from stomping its insecticoid being into the afterlife.

This does not work. I flip the rock over, and stomp as many as I can.


Ratas y Ratones
Good morning, old timer.

I could hardly believe it when i heard the DC moonbats were proposing making vets pay for medical care for their wounds. Their stupidity is exceeded only by their double standard lying. These are the same people who took umbrage at the treatment at Walter Reed. Where are these SOBs now? A man would think the voters would pay attention to these 2-faced shenanigans, but apparently not. There has got to be some hope that the incompetent actions, recalls, mind changes, ooopsies we didn't mean it, will eventually register on even the most blind identity voter that there is no head at the head. No kidding, if there is not massive changes at the ballot box next couple of elections, it indicates Americans are too dumb to deserve freedom. Yecchhh.

Colonel North
Thanks for your service, patriotism and support. As an active Army Officer, I too was shocked when I heard about this. The fact the GEN (R) Shinseki even entertained this was surprising enough. I sincerely hope he doesn't become a Wesley Clark.

National embarrassment known as Obama
This guy needs to be removed from office ASAP.

Eating Crow
Gilligan and his cohorts Mrs. Howell (Pelosi) and Mr. Howell (Dingy) were sitting on an island all alone on this one. Mrs. Howell must have been just seething inside to have to announce the decision not to charge the wounded troops for treatment. Bunch of pukes, all of them.

As for Gen. Shinseki, he is a disgrace. I never cared for him in uniform nor out of uniform.

Thank you, ...
I echo the countless thanks to you, LtCol North, for your service to this country, as well as the SUPER service of our men/women today serving this country. I also echo the disgust noted by most of the folks here regarding the despicable and rotten plan proposed by mr. obama and company. It's good to see that folks stood up for our vets to "help" obama see the light.

Good go Col North
One thing: Don't think this is the end of this one.
If you notice, when Obama is stopped he slithers around the bulwark and comes from another direction.
All here, keep your eyes open to this man. When he leaves Wash. to flit around, keep your eyes on Wash. and the rest of his minions.

The REMF from Scranton
calling LtCol North a liar on this yet?

This is SO typical of liberals to leave the troops hanging.

JFK did it at the Bay of Pigs
LBJ did it to the troops in Vietnam with his ridiculous ROE
Carter...enough said.
Clinton did it at Mogadishu thanks to Les Aspin.

Now this. Liberals simply suck it.

Ken
Shinseki is an idiot. That's the moron who thinks that giving out black berets makes espirit de corps and morale soar!

ADLoggy
Weasley Clark. What a P.O.S! I've talked with Army folks who served with him and they call him the Perfumed Prince who is as useless as t*ts on a bull.

Col. North, I concur with the thanks!
This is just a small indication of the damage this fraud of a POTUS has in store for our once great nation. He is testing the waters to see how far he can go and how fast he can push through his agenda to destroy the US. This isn't the second term of Jimmuh Carta, this is hundreds of times worse.

Bigger problem may be, where are the opposition politicians with the spine to defend our country?

Re: Glowbama!!!
Look, this is exactly what they were thinking when they came up with this crap!!! Col. North, I am a disabled vet from the Enduring Freedom era and I have nephews over there and one has been hurt with a purple heart, there are far worse vets than Will or myself, but the VA and Tricare is all we have for health care. Sir, this clown is far more dangerous to our way life than alot people realize!! Thank you for your service Col.

GunnyG
I hear ya on these frickin berets. I hate the sucker and so do most of my fellow soldiers. They provide no sun protection, they're hot as he!! and you need two hands to put them on so you have to set everything down put it on and then pick everything back up just to walk outside.

IRT to Clark, everytime Clinton turned a corner Clark's nose was broken. Clark's claim to fame is Kosovo where he was so competent he accidently bombed the Chinese Embassy in Belgrade and wasn't relieved. We are still policing Kosovo 11 years later after billions in cost.

ADLoggy
Thank GOD the MC never went that route. That soft cover has been around a LONG LONG time and it should stay that way!

Shinseki and Clark are what Hackworth railed about in his book, "About Face."

GunnyG©
The Army went through a period of some really dumb decisions from our 4-stars.

The military today is being run by uniformed politicians and very few real Warrior Generals with the balls to speak out. Just to name a few of the PC, socialized stuff we have to go through: Sexual Harrassment training, Homosexual Awareness training, Consideration of Others (CO2) training, and now the CJCS (Admiral M) is on a diversity kick which as always means race and not thought, experience, culture etc... Heck we have more psychological training than Dr. Douglas.

Hey Gunny,
It made no sense to do what he did. To the elite soldier the beret is their esprit de corps; For Gen. Shinseki to take that distinction away from them, by issuing black berets to all the US Army soldiers, was a boneheaded move. The beret had always been up until that point, a distinctive piece of headwear for the Special Forces and other elite units.

Gen. Shinseki, I put him in the same category as liberal Wesley Clark.

Have a good one.

ADLoggy, Gunny G
Thanks for confirming what I had always thought about Wesley Clark...I've long felt that he was a political general in the worst Civil War tradition (think George McClellan without the logistical & administative skills).

As for the subject at hand, I think that this one bonehead idea of Obama's -- even putting everything else aside -- should disqualify him from being Commander-in-Chief.

It was heartening to see our military get up off the mat after the mismanagement and de-moralization of the Carter years to once again become the best of the best. It's sad (not to mention scary) that we're going to have to start all over again.

Thoughtless
The fact that Obama even considered something like this shows the lack of respect he has for our military. Perhaps if he had done more than be a community organizer and campaign for office he might have a little more respect for these fine men and women. This is a man that has no concept of reality. He thinks all can be solved by reading a speech from a teleprompter and trying to act cool. He thinks that we can all have a group hug with the terrorist and everything will be rosey Our military are the best and if ever there was ever a time we need them it is now. They give so much of themselves and get very little in return. To take anything away from them is an outrage.

LtCol. North
Sir, I too am a formor Marine. Sgt, 0311. I 3/6 and B 1/2. OEF and OIF vet. Semper Fi Brother.

Just the fact that Obama, Emanuel and Shinseki even considered this is an act of treason. Of course, the press is going to spin this that he defended the troops. Of course, the paltry sum that AIG paid out is what makes the head lines. And of course, the liberals are the useful idiots who fall for it hook, line and sinker.

We vets need to harp on this EVERY DAY until 2012.

If you area veteran or family of a veteran and you voted for Obama, know this;

OBAMA DOESN'T CARE ABOUT YOU!!!!

The next move will be a strike
to reduce/freeze retirement for long service retirees, and elimination of TRICARE and TFL coverage. Or maybe just increasesd which will make it less likely the older ones among us will get 'preventive care'. Obama wants an army dedicated to HIM, not the Constitution, and has now ethics or morals which would stop him from obtaining it. You can bet the "civilian volunteer security force" will have excellent medical coverage.

ADLoggy
I agree with your assessment in regards to the Generals, they do hold back from speaking out due to PC reasons. They do not inform the politicians (who I do feel are informed but just too stubborn to do what is right) as they should.

As for the sensitivity training, speaking from 28 years of service, I think it is a good thing…Keeps many of the younger soldiers out of trouble; as they tend to engage their mouth before engaging their brain. Young soldiers being immature tend to get themselves into trouble concerning these issues.

Having dealt with squad level, platoon level and unit level leadership positions I have had to deal with young soldiers of all races and all ethnic backgrounds regarding sexual harassment , homosexuality awareness and many other areas regarding social concerns and issues, not to mention every day soldiering concerns. This is nothing new as I have seen it all.

Ollie - still using soldiers for himself
"...The Obama administration made a mockery of this pledge by proposing to charge veterans' private insurance companies for treatment of service-connected injuries, wounds or sickness..."

MOCKERY? Look you disgraced your uniform and you were convicted of felonies connected to the violation of your oath of office. Only the assistance of the ACLU allowed you to get those convictions overturned on technicalities. You used the troops then and you used them now.

IF this "proposal" got through the White House it would never have gotten off the Hill and you know it. Yet here you go attacking the openness of the Obama administration. Why no mention of an additional 25 BILLION funding over the next five years. Why no comment on increasing the VA’s budget from $98 billion this fiscal year to $113 billion for the fiscal year beginning Oct. 1, 2009? You are a drama queen and yet again you owe veterans an apology. Will you?

GunnyG federal employee
"Date: Mar 20, 2009 - 10:45 AM EST
The REMF from Scranton
calling LtCol North a liar on this yet?..."

Here now but I know you think the disgraced Ollie is a hero LMAO typical

"...This is SO typical of liberals to leave the troops hanging..."

One mention: the failed bush "staying the course" meaning do nothing

"...JFK did it at the Bay of Pigs..."

Not true at all what course of action was best for the nation?

"...LBJ did it to the troops in Vietnam with his ridiculous ROE..."

Which was nowhere near as restrictive as Nixon who also kept the waring going until an election was over

"..Carter...enough said..."

He was horrible but no where near as damaging to the military as the failed Bush's Iraq War

"...Clinton did it at Mogadishu thanks to Les Aspin...."

Reagan did it in Lebanon; both were smart enough to end it.

"...Now this. Liberals simply suck it.."

LMAO now this????? compares to all the war dead and wounded? WOW you really were middle management. I guess you are looking in a mirror when you say REMF

Folks
I don't know if you conservatives are allowed to read The Onion but this is worth the read (spew alert)


http://www.theonion.com/content/news/u_s_troops_in_iraq_exc ited_to?utm_source=a-section

Hal
The war in Iraq has not failed. We won. I can tell you that after being there three times and seeing the progress.

So it doesn't bother you at all that the CinC actually thought it would be a good idea to make wounded vets cover their own health care? I take back what I said earlier about you. There is no way you are formor Miltary if you support this traitor.

GunnyG
You are totally dating yourself with that REMF comment lol. I only ever hear oldtimers use that phrase. We always say POG, Personel Other than Grunt.

Baradiel
"Date: Mar 20, 2009 - 1:50 PM EST
Hal
The war in Iraq has not failed. We won. I can tell you that after being there three times and seeing the progress..."

I guess I wrote it less than correctly it was meant to read the "failed Bush's Iraq War". I apologize for the misprint. I thank you for your service. I am not certain we won though. Seems to me Iran was the big winner. The new Iraq is a formal ally of Iran and a declared enemy of Israel. What is a win at this point?

"...So it doesn't bother you at all that the CinC actually thought it would be a good idea to make wounded vets cover their own health care?.."

It would if he had been in office for even two months. It was a proposal nothing more and given the newness of the staff I wager there are more than a few bad "proposals" out there in every group. The process was open and the dialog changed it. This is how it is supposed to work. Me, I rant at them all the time that veteran care should be funded as a cost of war - period. It was a bad idea and I told them so - they agreed.

"... I take back what I said earlier about you. There is no way you are formor Miltary if you support this traitor."

See you are getting swept up by the crowd. Did you read what I typed to Ollie? Have you noticed all the good news not mentioned. Heck we should be dancing in the streets over five year funding and increases. Yet you folks went for the shiny right wing objects that never had a chance of passing.

Baradiel from VFW CC
"...The president kept to his word and made the right decision," said Gardner. "Now we can move forward and work with his administration and Congress to ensure that the rest of the Department of Veterans Affairs budget recommendation is signed into law..."

Hal
Hal, the fact that this even entered his brain shows his contempt for the Military. This is a slap in the face.

And in regards to increased funding, we shall see. I have no doubt that funding will be the first to be slashed for various other pet projects.

Hal, understand this. THE MAN DOESN'T CARE ABOUT VETS!!! NEVER HAS, NEVER WILL!!! IF HE DID, HE NEVER EVEN WOULD HAVE CONTEMPLATED THIS!!!!

Baradiel
"Date: Mar 20, 2009 - 2:29 PM EST
Hal
Hal, the fact that this even entered his brain shows his contempt for the Military. This is a slap in the face..."

It was a proposal that is all and dead on arrival. Obama's record in the Senate was strong. His budget is strong. If you don't expect a few slip ups you are unrealistic. And then to attack Obama when the failed Bush was a disaster for both the vets and the military family. I prefer going by results and actions.

"...And in regards to increased funding, we shall see. I have no doubt that funding will be the first to be slashed for various other pet projects..."

I have no doubt it will be last. Veterans and the military family are top support items. Will you apoligise if I am correct? Watch this budget.

"...Hal, understand this. THE MAN DOESN'T CARE ABOUT VETS!!! NEVER HAS, NEVER WILL!!! IF HE DID, HE NEVER EVEN WOULD HAVE CONTEMPLATED THIS!!!!"

The staff has not jelled yet but come on his record is strong. Oh your caps lock is stuck (wink) LOL

Burden of Battle
Our un-Constitutional Teleprompter-in-Chief really stepped in it THIS time! TY for your service, from a fellow vet, Col. North! Being 100% disabled (service-connected) this illegal move would have effectively left me with NO affordable health coverage! Gee thanx Barry, keep chowing those $140 steaks, at taxpayer expense!
AulSailor:(#26) The Sail-eared Simpleton DID say he wanted his lil' Gestapo ~better funded than our military~! Unfortunately, to get his lil' army organized, he'll have to destroy the military we already have! That way there will be the funding and no opposition to his psuedo-military dictatorship. And I've always considered any officer over full-bull as much political as military.
Ken:(#27) OMG, we DO have PC left-tards in the military! You're the first, I've met, in over 33 years! I've actually argued that you don't exist. (or you would've been tossed during Basic Training)
Donkey-Hoo: I REALLY have about zero tolerance for your incipient, lib-tard evasions and stupidity today! Please stick to a subject you have SOME knowlege in. (like liberal fantasies)

Kerry
"Date: Mar 20, 2009 - 2:50 PM EST
Burden of Battle... TY for your service, from a fellow vet, Col. North! Being 100% disabled (service-connected).."

May I ask why you thank an officer who violated his oath of office for his service? Are you anti Constitution?

The Concept Has Implications
My brother and I (both vets) were discussing this concept last night. He made an interesting point. Implied in this unspeakable concept:
-Are we going to start allowing our troops to take and keep plunder, now that they are required to supplement their compensation?
-Are we going to allow the troops to veto proposed actions where they might be injured? After all,they'd have to pay for the outcome....

Anyone who would put an issue like this on the table for consideration, or, on seeing it there would fail to sweep it off the table violently, is not a friend, not a patriot, and not my idea of an American. He should certainly not be allowed within 100 miles of Wash. DC.

Hal
Like talking to a brick wall. I don't care if his staff hasn't "jelled" yet. This is abysmal. How can such a though even enter into someone's mind who supposedly supports the troops? This is the same man who had to be preasured by John McCain to visit Iraq, and when he went to Germany, decided to razzle dazzle a bunch of Germans instead of visiting wounded troops. He also voted against reinforcing troops on the ground in Iraq. The argument that his staff hasn't "jelled" yet is so weak its pathetic.

The man has broken promise after promise, why should we believe that he would keep any promise in regards to vets? If you truely are a vet, your head is so deep in the sand it is scary.

Obama's Military Policy: Accommodation
Hey, vets, this is just the first shot across the bow by the Obama administration. They hate the military and plan several other attacks:

1. Repeal the "Don't ask, don't tell policy."
2. Cut the budget of all the military: Army, Navy, Marines, and Air Force.
3. Betray Israel's defense forces and watch it get overrun by the Arab fanatics.
4. If the going gets tough in Afghanistan, they will authorize a retreat from the country disguised as a strategic move to fight the Taliban without suffering daily troop losses.
5. Recognize Cuba and maybe even return some of the Cubans alleged to be criminals who fled from that country.
6. Withdraw our forces from Europe to reach an accommodation with the Russians.

Who is Obama? nemethm@m33access.com
Who is putting these ideas and words in Obama's mouth? He appears as a programed robot.I do not deny that he agrees with these plans but there is someone behind him pushing this agenda to ruin everything the U.S. stands for They will find another way to break the Military now that replacing VA insurance with private did not work.

Beware when they choose an enemy to beat up on. It is a diversion,(eg.AGI or Rush). There is something going on behind the scenes they do not want us to know about.

Eyes open and heads up.

Mark
"Date: Mar 20, 2009 - 3:07 PM EST..Anyone who would put an issue like this on the table for consideration, or, on seeing it there would fail to sweep it off the table violently, is not a friend, not a patriot, and not my idea of an American. He should certainly not be allowed within 100 miles of Wash. DC..."

Yet you maintained silence throughout the failed bush years of poor medical care for our wounded; charging them for equipment lost on the battle field and not purchasing upgraded armoured vehicles because they could threaten "other" procurement projects. There is no mention of all the promises being kept like advance funding for VA and huge budget increases you ignore those but "fixate" on a silly proposal - all I can say is LMAO. You are not for veterans or the military

Jerseyvet
"Date: Mar 20, 2009 - 3:33 PM EST
Obama's Military Policy: Accommodation
Hey, vets, this is just the first shot across the bow by the Obama administration. They hate the military and plan several other attacks:.."

the failed bush clearly hated the military and yet you were silent. Now you lie geesh

"1. Repeal the "Don't ask, don't tell policy."
Who cares it is far too long already get a grip

"2. Cut the budget of all the military: Army, Navy, Marines, and Air Force."

Let's see this military is broken and not maintained. It is larger than all our threats combined. A cut is probably due

"3. Betray Israel's defense forces and watch it get overrun by the Arab fanatics."

When the IRA was bombing Britain the US aided the IRA in a large part. Israel is an ally like Britain nothing else. Unlike the UK we must give massive aid to keep Israel running.

"4. If the going gets tough in Afghanistan, they will authorize a retreat from the country disguised as a strategic move to fight the Taliban without suffering daily troop losses."

Or pay them off like we did the Iraqi insurgents

"5. Recognize Cuba and maybe even return some of the Cubans alleged to be criminals who fled from that country."

It is over due

"6. Withdraw our forces from Europe to reach an accommodation with the Russians."

the failed bush regime did a lot of this already it seems

Kerry
I think you should reread my post.

Yes, of course we have PC libtards in the military. I never said we did not.

I am confused to what you are talking about??

I am not a liberal. I am a conservative.




Despicable?
That doesn't even begin to describe this "proposal". Odumbo doesn't respect our troops or veterans, no matter how much Hal the Liar tries to spin this. Hasn't jelled yet? WTF does that even mean? Either he wanted this abhorrent policy in place or he didn't. Having a "jelled" staff has nothing whatsoever to do with it. This monstrosity came from Odumbo, not some staffer.

Col. North, from a fellow Corps veteran, keep the flag flying, my brother. Semper Fi.

Ken
I know about having libtards in the military. When I was in the Corps we had a guy in our unit that always had his copy of the Thoughts of Chairman Mao and was always reading it. He considered Mao to be a great man and wonderful leader. He once asked me what I thought of him and I said that it was a wonder that God didn't remove him from Earth earlier than He did. Needless to say the little puke didn't appreciate my view. He would have gotten along quite well with Hal the Liar, I expect.

Hal
"Yet you maintained silence throughout the failed bush years of poor medical care for our wounded; charging them for equipment lost on the battle field and not purchasing upgraded armoured vehicles"

Vets have always pushed for better care, no matter who is president.

We have armoured vehicles. Getting them to the front isn't that easy. They weren't so heavily armored at first because we simply didn't expect the IED threat. We adapted. Now we even have ECMs in the vehicles and carried by food patrols. ALL done under the "failed Bush Administration".

You only get charged for lost or damaged equiptment if you were found negligent. IE, you leave your rifle sitting against the HUMMVEE when it was parked, the order is given to load up, and you jump in, FORGETTING YOUR WEAPON! If a peice of gear simple gets loose and falls off your flak, you simply sign a missing gear statement and be done. Yes, I am sure some mistakes happened, but the claim that the "Failed Bush Administration" charged troops is false.

Stop talking about Iraq like you have a clue. You don't.

Publius4254, SEMPER FI BROTHER! 0311!

Typo
"Now we even have ECMs in the vehicles and carried by food patrols"

FOOT patrols.

A Marine Patriot for All Seasons
Ollie North is one of the most respected and patriotic Marines ever to wear the uniform. I've been following his career ever since he was in the Reagan Administration and contributed to his legal fund. Unlike Sen. John Kerry, he did not request a discharge after he was seriously wounded twice.

Hal Donahue sounds like the Donahue on Sean Hannity's show the other night--clueless liberals that would die trying to talk our enemies to surrender.

Patriot warriors like Ollie North will always be remembered for their service to our country above and beyond the call of duty. The Donahues and Kerrys will be forgotten very quickly.

Publius4254
Thanks for sharing your story. I have had my share of run-ins with these buttheads/libtards in the military as well.

I don’t know what the other posters problem was all about but… As a Senior NCO, whether I agree with it, or not, it is one of those mandatory sensitivity classes that have to be taught. Most people don’t need to be told because they get it, some need to keep being reminded.

Being Military yourself, you are well aware of the fact, the miltary refer to soldiers who tend to always find themselves in trouble as problem children just like outside of the military there are problem children. Well, in the Army we have this little thing we refer to as the three meter zone…some soldiers you can’t let get outside this area around you. It’s put in place to keep the soldier from getting into trouble.

Drive on.

Hooah 34th INF DIV, 1BCT (Red Bull Div)

Hal responded to...
Hal responded to Jersey Vet so I'll do a typical Hal to Hal though Jersey Vet is more than capable.

JV "1. Repeal the "Don't ask, don't tell policy."
Hal: "Who cares it is far too long already get a grip"
We in the military care Hal so shut up.

JV "2. Cut the budget of all the military: Army, Navy, Marines, and Air Force."

Hal: "Let's see this military is broken and not maintained. It is larger than all our threats combined. A cut is probably due."
Wow larger than Iran, N. Korea, Afghanistan, Cuba, Russia, Venezuela, China. You're an uninformed idiot Hal.

JV "3. Betray Israel's defense forces and watch it get overrun by the Arab fanatics."

Hal: "When the IRA was bombing Britain the US aided the IRA in a large part. Israel is an ally like Britain nothing else. Unlike the UK we must give massive aid to keep Israel running."
What does the IRA have to do with the price of tea in China or the threat facing Israel? What is that massive aide we give Israel?

JV "4. If the going gets tough in Afghanistan, they will authorize a retreat from the country disguised as a strategic move to fight the Taliban without suffering daily troop losses."

Hal: "Or pay them off like we did the Iraqi insurgents."
Of course the surge and the soldiers had nothing to do with it. Your are a traitor to those that have fought there.
To be cont...

Baradiel
"Date: Mar 20, 2009 - 4:31 PM EST
Hal
"Yet you maintained silence throughout the failed bush years of poor medical care for our wounded; charging them for equipment lost on the battle field and not purchasing upgraded armoured vehicles"

Vets have always pushed for better care, no matter who is president."

Walter Reed was not better it was care heck with better

"...We have armoured vehicles. Getting them to the front isn't that easy. They weren't so heavily armored at first because we simply didn't expect the IED threat. We adapted..."

I am talking MRAP's the USMC deliberately decided not to order them because it would threaten another procurement procurement program. This is a fact and it is why for a long period until congress intervened marine casualties were higher. This is a fact

"... Now we even have ECMs in the vehicles and carried by food patrols. ALL done under the "failed Bush Administration"."

With a push from congress the Republicans in Congress called it pork the failed bush was smarter he called it excess spending

".., I am sure some mistakes happened, but the claim that the "Failed Bush Administration" charged troops is false..."

No it is not check the story of a troop who wound up in Pittsburgh that was the DoD position until an act of congress



Hal responded to Pt 2
JV "5. Recognize Cuba and maybe even return some of the Cubans alleged to be criminals who fled from that country."

Hal: "It is over due"
Why, they are still a communist country with a horrible human rights record. You must be a Che fan.

JV "6. Withdraw our forces from Europe to reach an accommodation with the Russians."

Hal: "the failed bush regime did a lot of this already it seems"
Actually, the successful Bush regime that kept us safe from terrorist attacks for seven years got tired of sucking up to Chirac and Schroeder. The Europeans got rid of your fellow socialists and now are begging us to stay.

LMAO.

Jerseyvet
"Date: Mar 20, 2009 - 4:57 PM EST
A Marine Patriot for All Seasons
Ollie North is one of the most respected and patriotic Marines ever to wear the uniform..."

He disgraced the corps and was convicted of lying to protect his butt and in doing so he sold out the constitution. This is a fact. I was there.

"... I've been following his career ever since he was in the Reagan Administration and contributed to his legal fund. Unlike Sen. John Kerry, he did not request a discharge after he was seriously wounded twice..."

His Vietnam service was courageous by all accounts too bad his courage turned to cowardice in DC

"..Patriot warriors like Ollie North will always be remembered for their service to our country above and beyond the call of duty. The Donahues and Kerrys will be forgotten very quickly..."

I could care less if I am remembered. We are all forgotten soon enough. BUT Ollie turned tail on the hill this is a fact. The ACLU saved his butt on pure technicalities

Anyone notice
Other than Hal's clumsy baby dear trying to stand up for the first time attempts, there aren't alot of libs on this thread. Pretty hard to defend the indefensable.

Ken, Publius, I know what you mean in regards to libtards in the Military. I love to ask them if they were aware that we were in Iraq when they enlisted in the MARINE CORPS INFANTRY. Usually gets crow eating.

The PC crap gets anoying. I remember when I was with 3/6, our slogan was "America's Varsity", even had a really cool painting in the batallion HQ building on an inside wall that a couple LCpls worked really hard on. The Division Equal Opportunity Officer said they had to pain over it because someone might find it exclusionary or something like that. Silly me, I thought it was a good thing when troops think their unit or ship is the best.

Baradiel,
Don't waste your time here with Hal. I make the mistake of engaging Hal the other day. I too got into a discussion regarding the equipment for the soldiers in Iraq. Like you, I was there as well. I told him, you train as you fight; you go to war with the equipment you get. We made do. The American soldier improvised, we made do with what we had.


Hooah 34th INF DIV, 1BCT (Red Bull Div)

Doofass
Do items in the following list remind you of some things you are guilty of?

Article 88

Article 117

Article 133

Article 134

ADLoggy
"Date: Mar 20, 2009 - 5:18 PM EST...Hal: "Who cares it is far too long already get a grip"
We in the military care Hal so shut up."

Actually you don't care. You personally may but the troops as a whole could care less. As one guy told me heck they are already there we know who they are. Can they cover my back? If yes, I could care less. So stop using the "royal" we.

"JV "2. Cut the budget of all the military: ... Wow larger than Iran, N. Korea, Afghanistan, Cuba, Russia, Venezuela, China. You're an uninformed idiot Hal."

Actually the budgets are. Hard to believe I know but yup

"JV "3. Betray Israel's ...What does the IRA have to do with the price of tea in China or the threat facing Israel? What is that massive aide we give Israel?"

Israel is an ally that we must MAINTAIN. It gets nearly or more than half of all our foreign aid of all types. The IRA has to do with the fact that the IRA trained both Israel and Hamas LOL but with Ireland we walked a fair line because it was a fight for freedom. Israel is a good ally but this fight is theirs not ours

JV "4. If the going gets tough in Afghanistan,..."..Hal: "Or pay them off like we did the Iraqi insurgents."
Of course the surge and the soldiers had nothing to do with it. Your are a traitor to those that have fought there..."

I did not say that why do you?

Doofass:
The faster you are gone from TH and forgotten, the better.

Hal
Your last repsonse didn't even make sense.

"No it is not check the story of a troop who wound up in Pittsburgh that was the DoD position until an act of congress"

One guy? So all the missing gear statements that I have filled out for my self or got for my Marines to declare all sorts of crap combat losses (and there for not charged to the Marine) mean nothing? Again, if you are negligent, you pay. If it is clearly not your fault, you don't.

I can't speak for anything before 9/11, but when I went into Afghanistan in 01, Djibouti in 03, and Iraq in 04, 05 and 07, (all under the "failed Bush Administration") we didn't pay for legit combat losses, plain and simple. I actually find myself typing slower so maybe it might get through to you. Since I can so easily call BS on one of your claims, I have no reason to even take seriously anything else you say.

Baradiel
Served with both 1st and 2nd MEF while deployed, stationed at TQ in the wonderful wilds of Al Anbar.

You guys rock! Semper Fi


US Army Redlegger
Red Bulls

Hal Donahue Hypocite says
"He disgraced the corps and was convicted of lying to protect his butt and in doing so he sold out the constitution. This is a fact. I was there."

I've never heard anyone in the Marine Corps say Ollie disgraced it. I have heard many in the Marine Corps say your boy Murtha has disgraced it though.

I guess your idol Bill Clinton lying under oath to rotect his butt and in doing so sold out the constitution in front of the entire nation wasn't a disgrace to all four services and the nation as he was the CinC.

That VERDICT from the democrat led kangaroo court was overturned because it was such a sham even the ACLU couldn't let it go even though they hate guys like LTC North.

ADLoggy
"Date: Mar 20, 2009 - 5:19 PM EST
Hal responded to Pt 2
JV "5. Recognize Cuba and maybe even return some of the Cubans alleged to be criminals who fled from that country..Hal: "It is over due"
Why, they are still a communist country with a horrible human rights record. You must be a Che fan."

Not at all; although I did read his diaries at staff college. What defeated the old Soviet Union were two things besides us LOL. The FAX machine and the copier. Information is power and that is why we open up Cuba

"...Hal: "the failed bush regime did a lot of this already it seems"
Actually, the successful Bush regime that kept us safe from terrorist attacks for seven years got tired of sucking up to Chirac and Schroeder. The Europeans got rid of your fellow socialists and now are begging us to stay.."

LOL so this means you agree with the facts I stated, except that you think the failed bush regime had some merit?

I do want to say thank you for discussing this even if we do disagree

Ken
I can't help myself.

I am tempted to make an alt on here, say I was in Iraq as a SEAL or some crap, and just agree with everything Hal says. He would probably respond with "See, this man was there, he knows what he is talking about, I am right."

Tempting, but I can't bring myself to do that.

ExRCSD Deputy
"Date: Mar 20, 2009 - 5:37 PM EST
...Do items in the following list remind you of some things you are guilty of?

Article 88

Article 117

Article 133

Article 134"

If there is any merit to your charges then call me on active duty. Unlike Ollie, I will tell the truth

Doofass
You would not know the truth if it bit you on your amazingly large larda**

Ken
"Served with both 1st and 2nd MEF while deployed, stationed at TQ in the wonderful wilds of Al Anbar. "

I spent about four hours there on my way to Iskanderyia(spelling?) my first time over there as a combat replacement. Good times.

I am trying to think of the Army unit that replaced us my second time over there, but it just isn't coming to me. My first time, the Mississippi national guard relieved us, my second time, in Hit, like I said an Army unit replaced us but I can't for the life remember who it was. My third time we were working with another Marine batallion so we didn't RIP with anyone per se (that deployment was WIERD).

You wouldn't happen to know which Army units were in Hit around mid 05, do you?

BTW, Doofass;
Do you even know what each article is?

ADLoggy
"Date: Mar 20, 2009 - 5:45 PM EST
Hal Donahue Hypocite says
"He disgraced the corps and was convicted of lying to protect his butt and in doing so he sold out the constitution. This is a fact. I was there."

I've never heard anyone in the Marine Corps say Ollie disgraced it. I have heard many in the Marine Corps say your boy Murtha has disgraced it though..."

Facts are there for all to see. Read the history. I was in the middle of the Ollie mess. He had our full support until he lied to protect his backside. That night at the bar not a single officer would drink with Ollie. Ask him about it if you don't believe me.

"..I guess your idol Bill Clinton lying under oath to rotect his butt and in doing so sold out the constitution in front of the entire nation wasn't a disgrace to all four services and the nation as he was the CinC."

Ollie was a military officer who violated his oath of office. I will not lie or cheat nor tolerate anyone who does. The military officer corp is special and Ollie let it down and the nation

"..That VERDICT from the democrat led kangaroo court was overturned because it was such a sham even the ACLU couldn't let it go even though they hate guys like LTC North..."

Not true at all. Look at the case there was never a question of if he lied it was a question of did he have immunity. ACLU protects the most detestable among us to protect all our freedom. That is why they defended OLLIE and guess what? I helped them do it and don't regret it.

Hal
After reading your inane responses to me, Jersey Vet, Ken and Baradiel, I have come to the conclusion you really are depriving a village of its idiot.

I especially ROTFLMAO on your justifications in #53 & 59 where you base your entire conclusion on one fellow POG/REMF's gripe and conclude its endemic throughout.

The guys above and myself have been there and I'll be back there this summer, so don't pontificate to us about what one guy you talked to said and preach to everyone that it is the gosple. Who do you think the folks are going to listen to, the ones with the experience or a chair bound disgruntled liberal who used to fly a desk in the Air Force many years ago?

ExRCSD Deputy
"Date: Mar 20, 2009 - 5:56 PM EST
BTW, Doofass;
Do you even know what each article is?.."

Nope not a clue but if I am in violation charge me!

Baradiel
"Date: Mar 20, 2009 - 5:47 PM EST
Ken
I can't help myself.

I am tempted to make an alt on here, say I was in Iraq as a SEAL or some crap, and just agree with everything Hal says. He would probably respond with "See, this man was there, he knows what he is talking about, I am right."

Tempting, but I can't bring myself to do that."

Thank you for that. I don't want agreement I do want discussion

Guys
I may fight and argue with you guys on here but don't think for a second I don't thank you for what you do. Small comfort I know LOL

Allow me to translate
ExRCSD Deputy
"Date: Mar 20, 2009 - 5:56 PM EST
BTW, Doofass;
Do you even know what each article is?.."

Nope not a clue but if I am in violation charge me!"

You, you pooped in the refridgerator? And, and you ate a whole wheel of cheese?

Whats this?
"Guys
I may fight and argue with you guys on here but don't think for a second I don't thank you for what you do. Small comfort I know LOL "

Is that Hal speak for, "Wow, they figured out I am pulling these things out of thin air"?

Facts are to liberals as crucifixes are to vampires.

ADLoggy
Going back over there? Iraq or Afghanistan? Stay safe bro (or sis, if that be the case).

Baradiel and Ken
I learned a while back that it is better for my blood pressure not to try to respond to Hal the Liar directly. He will always, and I mean ALWAYS, spin everything the Dumbocrooks do to make it look right and reasonable and everything that Republicans and conservatives do to make it look wrong. He will make all kinds of conclusory statements without offering one iota pf proof for what he says. Then, when you challenge him on it he will tell you to either refute what he says or move on. He will duck, dodge and deflect everything you say to him until he figures you are off the thread then go on to something totally off the subject. I just consider what he says to be unimportant and I no longer read his words.

Baradiel--SEMPER FI, MY BROTHER!! Keep fighting the good fight.

Publius
I know, but it is just so hard to resist. If only there was a way to harness his spin into energy. Cheap, renewable, and VERY abundent. We would never have to worry about fossel fuels again!

Baradiel
Sorry, I can't help you out there regarding 05...we arrived in March 06 and left July 07.




ADLoggy
"Date: Mar 20, 2009 - 6:00 PM EST
Hal...I especially ROTFLMAO on your justifications in #53 & 59 where you base your entire conclusion on one fellow POG/REMF's gripe and conclude its endemic throughout..."

Ah sorry about that it is so incorrect. I see troops every day. My guy is a composite

"...The guys above and myself have been there and I'll be back there this summer, so don't pontificate to us about what one guy you talked to said and preach to everyone that it is the gosple..."

Please read The Unforgiving Minute by Craig Mullaney. People like this are who I speak with.

"..Who do you think the folks are going to listen to, the ones with the experience or a chair bound disgruntled liberal who used to fly a desk in the Air Force many years ago?"

The "desk" was an ejection seat but I do understand what I don't understand is the politicization that you expose. It should be the facts not the legend

You painted yourself into a sad box

Doofass:
I haven't figured out who is the bigger liar, you or Ranger'sIQ's-29 or Obumf*ck, but you all three do run a close race.

Hal
Your welcome and for your service thanks as well.

We only ask that you attack the message and not the messenger. We get it, you don't like LTC North and we do. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. Unlike may who self-righteously condemn him, Ollie has bled for his country and still puts his self in harms way to bring to the American people current stories of troops doing great things. I respect him for that regardless of what he may or may not have done at one single point in his life. Maybe you could learn to forgive and forget like you seem to have done for others of a more liberal persuasion.

Again, if you can't argue for or against the theme of the article then don't argue at all.

AdLoggy writes:
Maybe you could learn to forgive and forget like you seem to have done for others of a more liberal persuasion.

Again, if you can't argue for or against the theme of the article then don't argue at all.

Won't happen AdLoggy, the Doofass like every other lib is constitutionally incapable of either forgiveness or logical argument.

Baradiel
I lucked out this time, I get to be a staff weenie at Arifjan. I'll still be making some trips up north from time to time but Arifjan will be home base.

ExRCSD Deputy writes:
"Won't happen AdLoggy, the Doofass like every other lib is constitutionally incapable of either forgiveness or logical argument."

I guess I'm hoping I can find just one that will succumb to logic and facts instead of feelings and fantasy. Although I'm beginning to think I'd have better luck finding the Holy Grail.

ADLoggy
NICE, POGGing it up lol! Nothing wrong with that. Good to take a break every now and then.

Oh and Hal, for God's sakes, your man wanted to charge wounded veterans for their healthcare, plain and simple. If he didn't think it was a good idea, he never would have floated it. You are wrong, end of story.

People like Hal
are just so emotionally invested in this idiot that no matter what he does, they will never admit he is wrong. He is the perfect being to them.

I am pretty sure that Obama could stomp a puppy on live TV, and people like Hal would be talking about how devoted he is to animal rights.

Baradiel
I guess after 23 years active I'm ready for some good POGGing. Anyway, gotta sign off here so keep up the good fight keeping Hal on point. Believe it or not he actually does try and do some good however misguided his efforts and ideology may be. But when you wallow around in the shyte at Huffpost like he does, you can't help but come out stinking. :-)

ADL
Take care man.

KEEP UP THE GOOD FIGHT COL NORTH

I too, was very angry when I heard this new proposal of Obama regarding our wounded soldiers. How could he even dare to consider doing this.

My husband spent 26 years in the Navy and still walks with a limp from a wound received in Viet Nam. He is a good American and loves his country as do most Veterans. When 9-11 happened he regreted he could not help at that time.

Today Obama sent a message to Iran that we can all get along together. That reminded me of the hippies in the 1960's shouting, "love and peace", "Make love, not war". That attitude is instilled in the left wing liberals and all we have to do is talk nice and we will have peace. How naive that thinking is. I like Teddy Roosevelt's attitude, "Talk softly, but carry a big stick".


But then, that was Obama's goal
Mr. North states: "Whether it is malevolence, ideology or incompetence that is driving these strategies, none of this helps recruiting or retaining the brightest and best-educated, -trained, -led and -equipped military force the world ever has seen." I rest my case.

Unbelieveable
I was appalled by this suggestion by Mr Obadbama to charge our wounded for their treatment. I live in Ariz and almost every day hear of some illegal alien hurt or ill being airlifted or treated without thought of cost.......

Our Veterans deserve the best of care and without cost, they have paid with their service and with their blood...

Hal
In one of your comments yesterday, you wrote something along the lines of "if you had any guts you would use your real name and hometown."

Please give me your opinion of:
Candidus
Silence Dogood
Publius

Did these men have guts?



Hal, this was your quote
"...if you had any courage at all you would post your real name and town."

North is for government run healthcare?
I can't believe that somebody on TH has the nerve to claim that the VA has some ability to manage healthcare. I thought that programs like the prescription medicare program pushed by GWB and the Republican congress were the way to go. Shouln't people be able to negotiate for healthcare like we do for other major purchases. For example, if we have a heart attack shouldn't we have to option of calling around to different hospitals to see what the lowest cost for the best service would be? Also, we have way to many regulations for healthcare. Shouldn't people be able to perform surgery and administer drugs without having to register dozens of different ways with government bureaucracies?

who started old age pensions?
All of the GOP now is opposed to Social Security and would like to see us go in a direction where people could invest that money in the stock market instead and make good returns that way. We all agree that Social Security is nothing more than socialism and rewards lazy people. But does anyone know that we had something like it prior to Social Security. More than 100 years ago, the Republican party started an old age pension program for those who served in the Civil War for the Union (the veterans group GAR was a huge part of the lobbying behind that). My great-great grandfather was in the GAR (and was an active Republican) and got his Civil War pension of about $1000 per month in today's money and collected it for about 20 years until his death. He was not disabled, and he did not serve that long in the Union army. Would the GOP of today claim that was socialism or welfare? Of course -- most would deny that such a program existed (or might call you a traitor for even bringing it up).

By the way, most of the Red State South also created pension programs for those who served in the Confederate Army. Were they all socialists too? Yes.

limitedgovernment
"Date: Mar 20, 2009 - 10:39 PM EST
Hal
In one of your comments yesterday, you wrote something along the lines of "if you had any guts you would use your real name and hometown.....Did these men have guts?"

I made that comment to an individual who said he was a military officer and urging his men not to obey lawful orders. Then he went on to post a link with a masked "claimed to be soldier" urging revolt and who said that he feared violence to his family from Chicago thugs etc. It is all over these "military folks" with their silly oathkeepers or some such thing and calling the President of the US an illegal. If those folks want to "stand up and climb into TR's ring" you can't do it hiding behind a mask. Usually, I have no problem with others using made up "names"

ADLoggy
"Date: Mar 20, 2009 - 6:32 PM EST
Hal
Your welcome and for your service thanks as well.

We only ask that you attack the message and not the messenger. We get it, you don't like LTC North and we do..."

Actually Ollie was a personable guy. I have two problems with him. One, by being held up as a good soldier he is a horrible example to the troops. Two, he has yet to apoligize for his violation of his oath. His attack on the Obama Administration lacks all balance and integrity. The "issue" was DOA. Now why did he take this tack? For political reasons the troops be damned

"... Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. Unlike may who self-righteously condemn him, Ollie has bled for his country and still puts his self in harms way to bring to the American people current stories of troops doing great things. I respect him for that regardless of what he may or may not have done at one single point in his life. "

I respect him for his service up until he failed to defend the constitution and displayed zero integrity. He has a job making lots of money trading on his military experience which is more than OK by me.

",,,Maybe you could learn to forgive and forget like you seem to have done for others of a more liberal persuasion..."

an admission of guilt and an apology first. Until then it is important to remember that Ollie failed to defend the constitution. We are all human and we all make mistakes only difference is Ollie glories in his

"..Again, if you can't argue for or against the theme of the article then don't argue at all..."

Read above I did. This was part of an unnecessary attack for strictly political reasons. Where is all the good stuff like I listed above mentioned? This unbalanced rant has nothing to do about the troops and everything to do about politics. Fair enough but admit what it is

Doofass writes:
I made that comment to an individual who said he was a military officer and urging his men not to obey lawful orders. Then he went on to post a link with a masked "claimed to be soldier" urging revolt and who said that he feared violence to his family from Chicago thugs etc. It is all over these "military folks" with their silly oathkeepers or some such thing and calling the President of the US an illegal. If those folks want to "stand up and climb into TR's ring" you can't do it hiding behind a mask. Usually, I have no problem with others using made up "names"

Actually, Doofass, you have made the same demand from of all posters here.

BTW, how about an apology from you to all of the veterans you have slimed here, because we don't toe the DemVoteVets and Dumbsh1tcrap lines of bullsh1?

ExRCSD Deputy
"Date: Mar 21, 2009 - 9:12 AM EST
Doofass writes:
I made that comment to an individual who said he was a military officer and urging his men not to obey lawful orders. Then he went on to post a link with a masked "claimed to be soldier" urging revolt and who said that he feared violence to his family from Chicago thugs etc. It is all over these "military folks" with their silly oathkeepers or some such thing and calling the President of the US an illegal. If those folks want to "stand up and climb into TR's ring" you can't do it hiding behind a mask. Usually, I have no problem with others using made up "names"

Actually, ...., you have made the same demand from of all posters here..."

I did but I seldom called them cowards. I do think it is laughable for people to hide behind key boards and fake names unless they must have a public position.

"...BTW, how about an apology from you to all of the veterans you have slimed here, because we don't toe the DemVoteVets and Dumbsh1tcrap lines of bullsh1?,..."

Certainly I do apoligise if I "slimed" the the service of anyone here for not toeing a political line. See that was easy. I hope I have not done that though.

Actually, Doofass,
it's not because To quote your hero they are "Words, just words." And you have repeatedly, by calling us phony vets, yes cowards, stupid bigots because we live in the South,and won't vote for people we detest politically, and well I could go on but I won't.

ExRCSD Deputy
"Date: Mar 21, 2009 - 10:12 AM EST
Actually, ..., it's not because To quote your hero they are "Words, just words.".."

Obama is not my hero but he is a good man and our current leader and a classic example of an American success story

"...And you have repeatedly, by calling us phony vets, yes cowards, stupid bigots because we live in the South,and won't vote for people we detest politically, and well I could go on but I won't.."

A couple of notes in context to show me where I called anyone a "phony vet" and I will apologize if untrue. Now I have called more than a few here cowards and bigots for what they have said or done and that has nothing to do with their being a veteran. That has to do with now. I seldom call people stupid more accurately I call them ignorant, a world of difference. The history of the South for the most part is a blot on the reputation of the US. That is not to say there are not many good things and people there and always has been.

Hypothetical Question?
Hypothetical Situation. Reverse the roles and McCain had won the election and made the same proposal about veteran's insurance being charged for service connected medical treatment -- and then dropped it very quickly.

I wonder how many people that have posted here would make the same posts as they did for Obama as president?

Hal, did you ever hear Victor Belenko speak? He's the one who defected to Japan with a MiG-25 his means of escape.

If so, do you remember his comments about the "chicken coop?" Maybe not as severe as his examples but that is how I feel about both parties regarding veterans, active, reserve, and retired.

Actually, Doofass,
yyou have called me a phony Vet.

BTW, the most igoted people I have ever run into wer Northerners. Don't go preaching about the South's sins, w/o looking in a mirror, and putting said mirror up to face the rest of the North.

Clyde9
"Date: Mar 21, 2009 - 1:40 PM EST
Hypothetical Question?
Hypothetical Situation. Reverse the roles and McCain had won the election and made the same proposal about veteran's insurance being charged for service connected medical treatment -- and then dropped it very quickly.

I wonder how many people that have posted here would make the same posts as they did for Obama as president?.."

Ollie is part of the extreme rightwing spin machine he knew exactly what he was doing It all looks like a classic set piece

"...Hal, did you ever hear Victor Belenko speak? He's the one who defected to Japan with a MiG-25 his means of escape.

If so, do you remember his comments about the "chicken coop?" Maybe not as severe as his examples but that is how I feel about both parties regarding veterans, active, reserve, and retired."

I actually met and spent some time with him. You may have a slight point (I never could get his hands gesture down pat though). LOL But I do know that since the turn of the century the Democratic Party has reached out and "tried" to support the military family (veterans, active, reserve, and retired and their families) That is why originally I said it was DOA if it even got to the Hill. This was all a tempest. Heck when I called my administration guys they to a person said we know; it will be out. My opinion is we need more military in Congress and their supporters. That doesn't mean we will win all the time it does mean we will at least have people who know the issues and will back us up

ExRCSD Deputy
"Date: Mar 21, 2009 - 1:42 PM EST
Actually, ....,yyou have called me a phony Vet."

What was the context?

"...BTW, the most igoted people I have ever run into wer Northerners. Don't go preaching about the South's sins, w/o looking in a mirror, and putting said mirror up to face the rest of the North."

You have a point and immigrant workers were treated as bad or worse than slaves. BUT the rest of the country did not fire the first shot to start a civil war caused by their refusal to surrender their decadent life style and dependence upon slavery. The rest of the country did not force state sponsored segregation and terror upon a large portion of their population for nearly 100 years. No the south has a history less than admirable

Doofass:
Try learning a little bit about History. Northern states and residents were just as racist if not more so than Southerners. Do you happen to know what Lincoln's plan for African-Americans was, or how he felt about blacks, or which states had non-residency laws relating to blacks, or which area of the country was most heavily involved in the skave trade, which area of te country exploited the South for economic gain and raw materials?

BTW, Obumf*ck really showed how he feels about the military with that little idea.

doofass: "urging his men not to obey

lawful orders?"

Even YOU should know that any "order" to violate the Constitution is NOT a "lawful order."

1. We will NOT obey any order to disarm the American people. … Any such order today would also be an act of war against the American people, and thus an act of treason. We will not make war on our own people, and we will not commit treason by obeying any such treasonous order.

VIOLATES Amendment II [Right to Bear Arms (1791)]


2. We will NOT obey any order to conduct warrantless searches of the American people, their homes, vehicles, papers, or effects – such as warrantless house-to house searches for weapons or persons. … We expect that warrantless searches of homes and vehicles, under some pretext, will be the means used to attempt to disarm the people.

VIOLATES Amendment IV [Search and Seizure (1791)]

3. We will NOT obey any order to detain American citizens as "unlawful enemy combatants" or to subject them to trial by military tribunal. … Any attempt to apply the laws of war to American civilians, under any pretext, such as against domestic "militia" groups the government brands "domestic terrorists," is an act of war and an act of treason.

Get that part, doofass, “ such as against domestic "militia" groups the government brands "domestic terrorists," is an act of war and an act of treason.”

THIS is interesting!!!

"Military demands details on soldiers' private guns"

"Fort Campbell command reversed under pressure"

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=92395

"A military commander at Fort Campbell in Kentucky demanded his soldiers give him the registration numbers of any guns they own privately and then reveal where they are stored.

"The order was stopped, according to base officials, when it was discovered the commander was not "acting within his authority."

"The original order was issued on the letterhead of Charlie Company, 3rd Battalion, 187th Infantry Regiment and said effective March 11, any soldier with a "privately owned weapon" was required to submit the information, along with any information about any concealed carry permit the soldier may have, and what state issued the permit.

Further, the rule warned, "If any soldier comes into possession of a Privately Owned Weapon following the effective date of this memorandum, he is required to inform the Chain of Command of the above information."

"One soldier who objected to the demands circulated the memo, commenting that he lives off post.

"'It just seems a little coincidental to me that within 90 days the most anti-firearm president in history is inaugurated, some of the nastiest anti-firearm laws are put on the table in Washington, and then the Army comes around wanting what amounts to a registration on all firearms, even if they are off post, and doesn't provide any reason or purpose as to why,' the soldier said. "


ExRCSD Deputy
"Date: Mar 21, 2009 - 2:52 PM EST...:
Try learning a little bit about History. Northern states and residents were just as racist if not more so than Southerners..."

There is some truth in you statement. The huge difference is we did not make it into laws. Even at out worst we knew it was not right

"... Do you happen to know what Lincoln's plan for African-Americans was, or how he felt about blacks,..."

Yes I do and do you know that his views changed over time and for the better he grew in office

"... or which states had non-residency laws relating to blacks, or which area of the country was most heavily involved in the skave trade, which area of te country exploited the South for economic gain and raw materials?"

Yup I do but so what? The other states acknowledge it was wrong and changed over time the poor south resisted change and elected to us state intimidation and terror

BTW,...(our president) really showed how he feels about the military with that little idea."

But all the other ideas like funding VA for five years or increasing their funding 11% are ignored? LOL Grow up a little this never was going to happen the funding will

Anne
"Date: Mar 21, 2009 - 3:03 PM EST
doofass: "urging his men not to obey

lawful orders?"

Even YOU should know that any "order" to violate the Constitution is NOT a "lawful order...."

The military does not get to decide what is constitutional or not. We have civilian control of the military - if that ever changes look

Anne
"Date: Mar 21, 2009 - 3:41 PM EST
THIS is interesting!!!

"Military demands details on soldiers' private guns"

"Fort Campbell command reversed under pressure"..."

Is this the same commander that sent all the troops an e-mail about jesus and a link to a religious right websight? I do know you had to register weapons you had on post

Doofass
The racism and segregation of the North was just as pervasive as in the South. All you need do is look at the demographic data. yje location of the major race riots, and the resistance to integrating schools in the North.

BTW, Lincoln's solution to integration did not change. Do you KNOW what it was?

The only reason Obumf*ck's plan did nokt succeed was that he got caught. Otherwise it would have.

Also, you can "fully fund" all you think is needed, but you will still have the same red tape, bureaucratic indifference, and inept care as ever.

ExRCSD Deputy
"Date: Mar 21, 2009 - 8:28 PM EST...The racism and segregation of the North was just as pervasive as in the South. All you need do is look at the demographic data. yje location of the major race riots, and the resistance to integrating schools in the North..."

It was not the law and it was directed at every immigrant group

"...BTW, Lincoln's solution to integration did not change. Do you KNOW what it was?.."

Grasping at straws here but I think originally back to Africa. Yes, it did change over time their is a lot of data out there on that subject

"...The only reason ....(president Obama)plan did nokt succeed was that he got caught. Otherwise it would have..."

This is a lie plain and simple. It was a PROPOSAL nothing else

",,,Also, you can "fully fund" all you think is needed, but you will still have the same red tape, bureaucratic indifference, and inept care as ever..."

Hmmm do you know VA medical care receives higher ratings from patients than private medical care. There are a lot of problems but most stem from claim processing not treatment

Doofass:
Most of the data show it did not change. Most of the racism was aimed at African-Americans. Why were you Yankees so opposed to school integration?

Most problems arise from a bunch of inept clowns following their bureaucratic instincts.

The Straw that Broke Obama's Back
When Obama dares to suggest that our brave military men and women are to be left to pay for their own service-connected injuries, he provided the final straw to break his own back.

Obama can see fit to throw away billions of taxpayer dollars to reward his ACORN voter fraud supporters and his greedy union cronies.

It is entirely possible that the Obama administration misjudged in an attempt to stampede everyone into a National Health Care Service in which private health care was run out of business.

If all of our huge numbers of veterans were lumped into a national health care plan, it would only be a matter of time before they did away with the specialized and free VA hospitals entirely.

Congressman Ron Paul has been advocating the only constitutional solution for how to treat our military as they deserve:

1. Bring all of our troops home now,

2. Close all of the 700 US military bases in 140-odd countries around the world.

3. Build and maintain as strong a national defense for the United States as possible.

4. Cease all intervention in the internal affairs of any foreign nation.

5. Never again send our troops to war without a bona fide declaration of war by Congress.

6. Cut off foreign aid for ALL nations.

7. Get out of NATO, UN, WTO, IMF, etc.

This is a policy that follows the US Constitution and is called non-interventionism, not isolationism as opponents term it.

The US would not have to worry about the health care of all our wounded warriors if they weren't sent into harm's way in the first place.

How much better for us to do as George Washington advised and only stand and defend our own soil rather than to stand to fight on foreign soil.


ExRCSD Deputy
"Date: Mar 21, 2009 - 9:33 PM EST...:Most of the data show it did not change. Most of the racism was aimed at African-Americans. Why were you Yankees so opposed to school integration?..."

We are not want to walk through one of the HS here? Look most Americans could care less about colour. That is a fact.

"...Most problems arise from a bunch of inept clowns following their bureaucratic instincts..."

Perhaps then you should get off your butt and go work for the government. Wait a minute you do; don't you?

Doofass:
Maybe you need to go back to HS to learn some US History.

Maybe you need to get of your larda^^ and learn something about real life.


ExRCSD Deputy
"Date: Mar 21, 2009 - 10:51 PM EST...:Maybe you need to go back to HS to learn some US History."

No but it certainly sounds like you do. What did you go to Liberty College??? LOL

"...Maybe you need to get of your larda^^ and learn something about real life."

Dearie I wager I have seen far more real life than you can ever imagine. Want to compare notes?

Hypothetical question/situation?
Or, if George Bush had made the same proposal under the same conditions that Obama did, what would the reaction of the Democrats and MSM be?

You have more faith in the Democrats than I do, and I need to add that I don't have any more faith in Republicans than Democrats.
Concurrent receipt of VA disability and retired pay was an issue in elections from challengers of either party and promptly forgotten after the election. A form of concurrent receipt did became effective during the GWB administration.

If the president and administration knew it would never become effective, why did they even make the proposal. This may have just been running it up the flag pole to see who shoots at it, but the fact the proposal was even made demonstrates a mindset that is not totally supportive of veterans and military personnel.

I believe North made a valid point, but I'm not sure it was worth an entire column, and I believe need to be aware of the proposal.

When I saw Belinko, one day mid-morning everyone in our office was told to go to the wing theater. About 15 minutes after everyone was seated Belinko came and gave his speech and answered all except personal -- according to his definition -- questions. When he finished we could not leave for almost 15 minutes later and we were told, "do not tell anyone when or where you heard Victor Belinko." He told an interesting story however.

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