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Friday, March 21, 2008
Oliver North :: Townhall.com Columnist
Iraq: The Real Story
by Oliver North
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Will the Dems' health care Christmas Present to America be an improvement or detriment to our health care system?


WASHINGTON -- Five years ago this week, 170,000 American and coalition soldiers, sailors, airmen, guardsmen and Marines launched Operation Iraqi Freedom. When they commenced their attack, they were outnumbered nearly three to one by Saddam Hussein's military, yet it took U.S. troops just three weeks to liberate Baghdad. No military force in history has accomplished that much so fast with so few casualties.

Despite a lightning-fast victory over the dictator's army, Republican Guard and fedayeen, the challenge of leaving Iraq better than we found it proved to be daunting and dangerous. Unfortunately, few Americans know what their countrymen in uniform have accomplished in the Land Between the Rivers.

On the way to Baghdad, American and allied forces were accompanied by more than 700 print and broadcast reporters. Once the dictator's capital was liberated, most of the media elites either headed for home or sequestered themselves inside the Green Zone. There they bought photos, footage and "news" from photographers and "reporters" traveling with our adversaries.

As coverage shifted from the warriors to Washington, political controversy, casualties and missteps -- inevitable in any war -- became the focus of reports about the war. Courageous Americans serving in the line of fire found themselves cast as bit players in a partisan firestorm. Bright, brave young Americans in the line of fire -- not our enemies -- became the targets for the mainstream media and powerful politicians.

The New York Times described those serving in our military as nothing but "poor kids from Mississippi, Texas and Alabama who couldn't get a decent job." A U.S. senator likened them to those who served Hitler, Stalin and Cambodia's Pol Pot, and a presidential candidate claimed that those who don't do well in school will "get stuck in Iraq." In 2005, after the press had been beating Abu Ghraib like a rented mule for a year, Newsweek ran a fictitious story about U.S. military guards flushing a Quran down a toilet, which precipitated riots throughout the Muslim world.

The consistent spin for five years has been to get out of Iraq, and despite extraordinary gains in the past 12 months, it hasn't stopped. On Monday, Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton described how she intends to get our troops out of a war "we cannot win." Two days later, Sen. Barack Obama claimed, "Our military is badly overstretched." He promised he would "immediately begin to remove our troops from Iraq" and "remove all of them in 16 months."

Thankfully, America's soldiers, sailors, airmen, guardsmen and Marines generally have ignored the press and the politicians. Instead they have been busy fighting a vicious adversary -- and winning. Here are some inconvenient facts about why they believe they can -- and must -- finish the job in Iraq:

-- Despite how it has been portrayed, today's all-volunteer U.S. military is the brightest and most educated, trained and equipped armed force ever fielded by any nation. More than 1.6 million American military personnel have served in Iraq. Notwithstanding the perception that our armed forces are stretched beyond the breaking point, re-enlistments never have been higher, and every service is exceeding its recruiting goals.

-- Iraq's police, military and security forces, widely depicted as ineffective or worse, have grown by more than 100,000 in the past year and have assumed responsibility for nine of 18 provinces.

-- In the past 12 months, the Interior Ministry has opened 13 new training facilities. The Iraqi military now has 134 active combat, infrastructure and special operations battalions, with a total of nearly 647,000 Iraqis who have volunteered to serve in uniform.

-- After we first reported on the Anbar Awakening in December 2006, the Sons of Iraq movement has crossed the Sunni-Shiite sectarian divide and now has 91,000 members. In the same time frame, attacks against Iraqi civilians and coalition forces have dropped by more than 70 percent.

-- Since 2004, more than 4,000 civil reconstruction projects -- including 325 for electrical distribution and 320 water treatment facilities -- have been completed. More than 3,000 schools and 75 hospitals, clinics and health care facilities have been renovated or built from the ground up while nearly 3,200 primary health care providers and physicians were being trained.

-- There are now more than 100 privately owned radio stations, 31 television stations and 600 newspapers published in Iraq -- a nation just slightly larger than California.

-- In February, crude oil production exceeded 2.4 million barrels per day, and this year, the Iraqi economy is projected to grow by 7 percent.

In the half-decade since Operation Iraqi Freedom began, our Fox News' "War Stories" team has made nine trips to Iraq, spending months in the field embedded with more than 30 U.S. combat units -- from "shock and awe" to the "thunder runs" to gunfights in "bloody Anbar" to "the surge." The brave Americans we have documented deserve better than what they have gotten from the mainstream media and far too many of our politicians.

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About The Author

Oliver North is the founder and honorary chairman of Freedom Alliance and author of The Assassins .

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©Creators Syndicate
McCain and America's Damaged Past
Even though many Americans do not agree with McCain’s politics, at least he realizes that America’s international relationships have been damaged by Bush’s stance on global warming, torture and Iraq. See the article below covering McCain’s recent trip for details.
It is a shame that certain members of the conservative political movement are so far behind the times in recognizing the need to heal a lot of issues after eight years of Bush.

"McCain Offers Soothing Tones in Trip Abroad"
By MICHAEL COOPER

PARIS — Senator John McCain’s trip abroad this week — which took him from the Middle East to No. 10 Downing Street to the Élysée Palace here — was more than just a Congressional fact-finding trip, or even a candidate’s attempt to appear statesmanlike.

It was also an audition on the world stage for Mr. McCain in his new role as the Republican presidential nominee. And it offered him the chance to test his hope that he could repair America’s tattered reputation by shifting course on some of the policies that have alienated its allies, in areas like global warming and torture. But he is making his foray even as he embraces what much of the world sees as the most hated remnant of the Bush presidency: the war in Iraq.

Do an internet search with the title to find the rest of the article….

I read all of these posts
Have you ever noticed how the antiwar crowd just keeps emphasizing the cost of the war but continually downplays the progress being made? I think that is Col. North's point. They just keep giving incomplete and one-sided information so that the unwary and uninformed can be swayed to their point of view. It's called propaganda.

As I read these posts, I was struck by how the anti war voices omitted relevant information and did not even acknowledge the positive changes now seen in Iraq and in Afghanistan. To hear them tell it, nothing good is happening in Iraq.

Not once did I hear them acknowledge that we have not been successfully attacked since 9/11. That alone is worth the price of the war to date!

Not once did they mention that democracy is no a reality in Iraq and the Taliban is out of control freeing millions from tyranny.

Not once did they mention that Al-Qaeda is on the run in Iraq and the violence is down 70%.

It reminds me of that Reuters article a few months ago. The surge was working. Violence was way down. So what did they report? "Grave-diggers suffer high unemployment in Iraq." Seriously now, could the MSM's agenda be any more clear?

Tom
"...We should be amazed that it is that high, after the pillaging of the oilfield infrastructure since the early 1980's. "

The insurgents control a refinary and they need the cash....sad and here our troops sit so Bush can sneak out of office leaving them stranded in the desert

Iraqi Oil Production
As referenced by the posters above, Iraq's oil output averaged 2.4MM BOPD in February. We should be amazed that it is that high, after the pillaging of the oilfield infrastructure since the early 1980's.

Hi Hal

"But that said we must be careful how we unwind the Iraq situation."

I couldn't agree more.

Taft
"...This is one reason Petreaus thinks the surge's main objective, to give the Iraqi gov, time to compose its self is a failure."

But that said we must be careful how we unwind the Iraq situation. The Bush Regime's only strategy is the "Nixon", stay there until elections and then blame someone else. Why won't the Bush Regime let Adm. Fallon testify?


North leaves out the imprortant things
This is one reason Petreaus thinks the surge's main objective, to give the Iraqi gov, time to compose its self is a failure.

"The Guardian video does a report, streamed below, on the prospect that some of the 80,000 members of the Awakening Councils or Concerned Local Citizens in Diyala Province and elsewhere are going to go on strike. Many of them say that they haven't been paid for a while. Others complain about their continued subjection to the Shiite government (this complaint is common in Diyala Province). Still others resent the refusal of the al-Maliki government to integrate them into the formal state security services."

Iam Who Iam
"It was reported that having a few billion dollars you could do anything you wanted. Saddam did just that. He brought anything he wanted .... There might be more house size nuclear reactors in the Middle East then in Europe and thanks to Saddam. "

Do you have any recognised authority for this statement LOL.

"I wonder what it would cost Saddam to have a person blow themselves up in New York hopefully more than 25K. That person would down in US history at least until the next person did it.
One could only wonder? "

Yawn you forget Saddam was writing a romance novel when his old friends in the Bush Regime attacked him. The 25K was for suicide bombers in Israel dispicable? yes, but hardly affecting the US. I mean we kept letting IRA bombers fundraise in the US while they launched bombing campaigns against England which is at least as close an ally as Israel.

bobbit
" It is a government problem and if our military wounded are not being cared for properly it is the People's problem. I usually disagree with all of your positions on the war however I defend your right to them. Please help me to understand more about why you feel the way you do about VA. "

REFORM NEEDED:
Brain-injured vets getting lost in the VA
By Kevin Ferris
Philadelphia Inquirer
Published on: 11/12/07

Pretty much tells the tale. When all is said and done what the Bush Regime has done is wage war on the cheap and funding was grossly inadequate for both the VA and Military (Walter Reed is not a VA hospital; it is a military hospital)medical systems. The Republican Congress allowed it to happen with much shouting from the Ds for whatever reason. The last continuing resolution the Repulicans in Congress called increased military and VA funding "pork" and the president call it gross overspending. Oh yes included in it were improved armoured vehicles the Marines that they said they didn't want. I could respect and disagree with all the fundamentalist conservatives and Ollie if they had at least stood up for the troops by fighting for adequate equipment, training and care -- they didn't.

5 years
It was reported that having a few billion dollars you could do anything you wanted. Saddam did just that. He brought anything he wanted if it went bang he brought it, if it went boom he brought it, if it flew he wanted it. Not only that he brought it for other countries in his region.
Missles from North Korea were shipped to countries that could hardly fly kites. Chemical reactors from China were off loaded in Beriut only to vanish into somewhere. Urenco sold thousands of it products to Saddam and shipped them off loaded in Beriut and then they vanish. At least barrels of yellow cake was recorded in Iraq only to be dump by the locals who used the barrels for water storage. Then there is the thousand barrels of chemicals (Black Fly type chemicals) around Baghdad that the Iraq military did not used against the US forces.
There might be more house size nuclear reactors in the Middle East then in Europe and thanks to Saddam.
I wonder what it would cost Saddam to have a person blow themselves up in New York hopefully more than 25K. That person would down in US history at least until the next person did it.
One could only wonder?

bobbit
"...That being said, I want to ask you about your continual visits to Walter Reed and the statements you make about the government failing to care for our wounded servicemen and women. I wanted to know more about why you must go there regularly and also find out more about the shortcomings of the care. "

First point I must make is that the medical care at Walter Reed is fantastic and the people working there are heroic. Walter Reed is directly responsible for a major increase in the survival rate of our wounded. Here is what I wrote about it:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/hal-donahue/bushs-greatest-mi litary-_b_80279.html

If you look at some of my other blogs you will see I very much support Walter Reed. The mismanagement of the facility is directly attritable to Rumsfeld, incompetent David Chu and lesser generals and admirals who forgot the were medical people first and political types second. For example, Rummy targeted Walter Reed in BRAC because his "new" military would not require it. With their usual incompetence, the cost of the Bethesda project has increased almost 500% since May 2005 from $201M to an estimate of $940 million in February 2008. And note this is to replace existing high quality facilities with facilities of much less size and capability. The cost is already over one billion because Mongomery County tax payers are being hit with an infrastructure bill totaling nearly 200 million.

"I would also like to ask you to respond in a non-partisan GWB bashing manner. Surely you are intelligent enough to know that one man - even POTUS - cannot be responsible for all of the problems you speak of."

Sadly you are mistaken. The Bush Regime is almost completely incompetent whether you talk Iraq, Katrina, Military etc. Why? I have my own ideas but I will let you decide. There is an atmosphere of weakness and arrogance permeating the White House that is perfectly summed up by Cheney's comment: "so".




lilly

"Conservatives are ready and willing to pay for the war? Then why is that they all start to scream, holler, foam at the mouth, and pass out every time the word TAXES is uttered? And how about DRAFT? This war was managed so it would be spectator sport for you folks---and with free tickets."

Why do Liberals push so hard for a draft?

How about we go one step further? Only people who have served in the military can vote? After all, they are the ones who have taken the risk. The rest of you, who live under their shield and get rich because of the freedoms they have earned for the country, can still live the good life but would have no say in the adminstration.

Hal Donahue

(Hal reads), "The Economist also does that make me a conservative????"

No, Hal. What you read does not make you a Liberal nor a Conservative. It is what you believe that defines what you are.

You believe the spew from the NYT; THAT makes you a Liberal.

Bush Want Our kids to Foot the Bill
Domestic borrowing is one thing, but our government has borrowed vast amounts from foreign countries. As of November 2007, the Legislative Reference section of the Library of Congress reported that in government-to-government loans (that is US Treasury obligations), we have borrowed $2.7 trillion dollars since the war began in 2003 and private sector loans as of 2006 amounted to $5.8 trillion dollars. China alone owns over $1 trillion dollars in US government obligations. That is, China has lent us about 60% as much as its yearly income and the equivalent of nearly 10% of ours.

The yearly interest cost on our debt is about $300 billion.

How much does oil cost? If you are a broker, you can answer immediately, somewhere around $100 dollars a barrel. That should be alarming since it has risen from about $27 since the Iraq war began. And it is generally accepted that each $5 rise per barrel reduces our national income by about $17 billion a year. That is a total of roughly 200 billion dollars.

lilly hits pay dirt

We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security.
~Dwight D. Eisenhower

To ctamas
Conservatives are ready and willing to pay for the war? Then why is that they all start to scream, holler, foam at the mouth, and pass out every time the word TAXES is uttered? And how about DRAFT? This war was managed so it would be spectator sport for you folks---and with free tickets.

renny
Please don't say the word "fifth" around Hal. It gives him the shakes!:>)

I can't be nice to him for very long I guess.

renny
Please don't say "fifth" around Hal. It gives him the shakes!:>)

I couldn't be nice to Hal for too long could I?

Hal
I don't wish to debate the Iraq war or anything about it with you. That is all water under the bridge regardless of your opinion of it. We are there. I do not know the answer and as a previous supporter of it back in 2003 in a post-9/11 world, I too grow tired of the handling of the war and the seemingly endless presence we have there. That being said, I want to ask you about your continual visits to Walter Reed and the statements you make about the government failing to care for our wounded servicemen and women. I wanted to know more about why you must go there regularly and also find out more about the shortcomings of the care. I would also like to ask you to respond in a non-partisan GWB bashing manner. Surely you are intelligent enough to know that one man - even POTUS - cannot be responsible for all of the problems you speak of. It is a government problem and if our military wounded are not being cared for properly it is the People's problem. I usually disagree with all of your positions on the war however I defend your right to them. Please help me to understand more about why you feel the way you do about VA.

North lie # 2
Durbin never compared U.S. servicemen to nazis. He was talking about interrogation techniques used at Gitmo.

North is a Liar
There is no record anywhere of the NY Times saying "poor kids from Mississippi, Texas and Alabama who couldn't get a decent job."

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Folks
Thanks for all the comments be well and have a great holiday

Birdman II
"I see the problem...

LtCol Hal Donahue reads the NYT. that explains it all."

The Economist also does that make me a conservative????

Art
"Do any of the regular posters here, like Donahue, even have jobs?"

Retired twice thank you...

"...And please quit responding to Robbie and Hal and others of their ilk. That would really ruin their day if they were totally ignored."

I love being ignored it lets me comment where needed without all the banter. You know how Rush runs his show...

" It might be good if there were a limit of two or three posts from the same person per day. "

Hey do you really think that all the traffic would still be here if we were quiet LMAO

I see the problem...

LtCol Hal Donahue reads the NYT. that explains it all.

N/A
"....Please remind the American people of the treason coming from the Democratically held Congress such as the condemnation of Turkey's massacre of Armenians over a century ago in order to alienate our allies and how our military has overcome despite their treason. God bless our troops!!!! "

LMAO silly, silly person but I agree democracy can be messy why we even let people like you who hate the constitution vote LOL

sheepdog
"400 Planes? I'd like to know where you got that information from or did you just make that up? I would probaly guess the latter..If we had 400 planes grounded I'm sure your favorite rag the NYT would proudly display it on the front page."

Ahh see in your bunkers you don't see a real newspaper. The NYT's covered the story for about three days. 400 F-15s are still grounded but readiness across all the forces is crashing. Fox and your so over Limbaugh only tell spin... Go to military.com, the air force association or heck hit google.

Tibby
There's only one guy buried in the American cemetery in Normandy not killed in WWII, Quentin Roosevelt, TR's son, who was shot down and killed in WWI. He's buried next to his brother Ted who died of a heart attack shortly after the invasion. TRjr and TR were both MoH recipients.
Your comment reminded me of our visit there where our guide told us of the (minor) errors in "Saving Private Ryan", the first of which was at the cemetery. In the film, the cemetery is shown with both a French and US flag. The cemetery is US soil and only the US flag is displayed.

HalD writes
"Wrong over 400 are still grounded and the wear on ALL our military equipment is FAR beyond expected. You will have to pay much higher taxes I guess to replace that stuff"

400 Planes? I'd like to know where you got that information from or did you just make that up? I would probaly guess the latter..If we had 400 planes grounded I'm sure your favorite rag the NYT would proudly display it on the front page.



Renny
You have the wrong Roosevelt in the Normandy landings. It was Theodore Roosevelt, not FDR's son. He went ashore at Utah beach.

The Tet Offensive was a military defeat for the NVA, but a political victory. Wars are not always won by winning battles. Look at our own Revolutionary War to gain independence.

Terrorism will not win militarily, but stands a very good chance of succeeding politically. All that they need is a foe that lacks resolve. Al quaida and others have known this since Somalia. Bush is an aberration in the war on terror. Any Democrat elected to the presidency will pull out of Iraq and the terrorist know it. All they have to do is pull back, regroup and increase attacks just prior to the presidential election. That will probably affect the outcome of the election.

Tibby


Work at home?
Do any of the regular posters here, like Donahue, even have jobs? They must spend many hours per week posting their brilliant comments on TownHall. Or are they retirees with too much time on their hands? Some writers here should get a life! And please quit responding to Robbie and Hal and others of their ilk. That would really ruin their day if they were totally ignored. It might be good if there were a limit of two or three posts from the same person per day.

Tell it like it is Colonel!!!!!
Thank you Colonel North for exposing the truth that so few will utter. Remind the American people victory belongs to those who believe in it the most and will fight for it the longest. Please remind the American people of the treason coming from the Democratically held Congress such as the condemnation of Turkey's massacre of Armenians over a century ago in order to alienate our allies and how our military has overcome despite their treason. God bless our troops!!!!

FRD's Son
Renny, none of FDR's son were at in Normandy, at least not in the landing.

James was a Marine and saw action in the Pacific theater. He was part of the Marine Commando Unit Carlson’s Raiders. Was on the Makin Island raid early in the war.

Elliott was in the Army Air Corps and served as a bombardier. He was awarded several medals.

John was in the Navy and severed on aircraft carriers in the Pacific. He was awarded a Bronze Star.

Franklin, Jr. was in the Navy and was wounded, Purple Heart and a Silver Star.

I agree withn your sentiments. Just wanted to set the rfecord staright.

A mirror cracked
Many will say that we are not in control in Iraq, because of the violence they see. Should I ask the same question of neighborhoods in this country? Are there neighborhoods in this country that you would not walk down the street during the day ? At night ?

During this last week we have seen a Chicago church pastor speak out against this country. I hear of the anger of blacks toward this country over the last few hundred years and yet it is expected of the Iraqi's that they are to form a government and give each other big hugs and get along with each other.

We can't control our own borders and yet we are surprised that Iran et al are coming into Iraq. If they are there fighting us because we are in Iraq, then why are they blowing up Iraqis ?

Look in the mirror before you point the finger.

Tibby

Boutte writes: @2:16PM

"And they still can't win!"

And, and idiot such as yourself would know that, how?

If you have a brain in your head (which is doubtful,) you'd better hope that you're WRONG! Absolutely, positivily WRONG!

But, maybe you'd LIKE to be a Muslim? Maybe you'd LIKE to wear a burka, and be beaten just because your husband felt like it?

IT IS the goal of al Quade! Remember, "Death to America?" and "Wipe America off the face of the earth?"


Or are you in the state of denial and delusion?


Hal the disgruntled ex LtCol scribbles:
moderate?

Your about as “moderate” as wobbie is for mcquack. Just like you were passed over more times than a dead possum on the interstate. That is why you are so left wing, all that hate keep you and wobbie and wonder woman warm at night?

http://eclipptv.com/viewVideo.php?video_id=956&title=Vietn am_Veterans_Against_McCain&vpkey=62acaf320c

http://www.immigrationshumancost.org/text/crimevictims.htm l
Free Ramos and Compean
Write in a name folks, it is still a free country! Well, until McQuack comes up with more ideals on how to kill free speech.

Now I am REALLY Confused.
According to Ollie North, the Iraqis have an army of 647,000 volunteers. They have a police force of 100,000. There are 91,000 Sons of Iraq. And the sheiks with all their militia are now on our side.

So, with about 850,000 Iraqis, 150,000 Americans, all the armor, all the airpower, all the navy, all the surveillance, all the artillery, and an endless budget purchasing an endless supply of material, we aren't in control yet?

Man, these insurgents must be amazing! Super warriors.

Or, as I suspect, all the numbers North spits out are meaningless. The "volunteers" are in the army because there is no other way to make a living. After 4000 public works projects, the country still doesn't have the water and elctricty capacity it did 5 years ago.


MSM is just like a fifth
column embedded in the US.

The NYSlimes, once the greatest newspaper in the world, literally broadcasts state secrets to aid enemies of Am.

Senators' sons no longer fight anywhere except for the next drug hit. During WW II, FDR's own son was on the beaches in Normandy.

Ever since Walter Cronkite deliberately reported the failure of the Tet offensive in 1968, the entire media has stumbled leftward and now works assiduously at undermining the country that gives it First Amendmant protection.

Obama is a hack Chicago pol with racist and Marxist beliefs, forgetting he is also inexperienced, has never sponsored any legislation worth considering, and knows nothing about the military. The Mrs. is Bill Clinton redux. Even the Dems. don't want that.


Shield wolf
If he's sober, I'm sure Hal D will make up something soon...

Hal D
400 planes grounded? Id like to hear where that information came from. As far as I know all the planes are flying, fueled and kept up with shelflife. We have a wonderful system that prevents this problem from rotational shelf life item replacements and a easy order system for needed parts. If a plane were to sit too long unused it would be cannibalized for parts so the others could fly. =)

Konop
Thanks - looks like some of the trolls have retreated.

The Truth!
AZPhil

GREAT POST!!!

Mdogg
Conisdering our "shots" would have been ICBMs, that is probably a good thing.

Notice we didn't hesitate to sell the darker Afghanis tow missiles to blast them with?

Reporters W/O Gonads
The ONLY true reports come from Colonel North when he is in Iraq. The Green Zone reporters buy photos and videos from the underground and make up stories and try to make us believe they are in the battles while they are sitting on their fat cowardly @$$ at the nearest bar.

In any event the blowhard Hal D has been busy trying to cover his @$$ from the patriots. Is there anyone on this blog who agrees with this @$$h?

If you are reading this Hal D you will discover a real black Pastor's view of Obama!
Does Obama hate white America? Rev. James David Manning, PhD says, “YES HE DOES.”
http://youtube.com/watch?v=6RyOPTtzTvI&feature=related

The surge is a failure
Whoops, no it isn't. The Army is broken. Whoops no it isn't. The war is lost. Whoops...The American people are overwhelmingly against this war. Whoops.... We can't win. Considering the Dems track record so far, it's encouraging to hear them say this. Bush was wrong about WMD. The dems have been wrong about everything else!!

Semper Fi
Lt Col North,

I’m a 22 year retired vet. My oldest, now 30 and a civilian was a corporal (0351) with 2/5 Marines in the initial invasion. My youngest, 28 is somewhere under the Pacific aboard the USS Pasadena. All of us support President Bush, our country, and the fight.

I mention this because first and foremost, I’m proud of my sons and our service. We owe this country everything. Our combined service could never repay this nation for the opportunity to live as free men…but it has been gratifying trying.

Second, I want you to understand that we represent Middle America. My sons and I split the bell curve, and we know that the job in Iraq must be finished. Reasonable and rational thinking Americans believe this. I take comfort in knowing that the democrats will lose this election for the same reason they lost the last one.

No doubt you’ve learned to ignore the personal antics of the ungrateful bottom feeders that infest these boards and feel the desperate need to attack you and others. You represent what they despise most...love of country.

Keep up the fight Devil-Dawg! We are listening.

Semper Fi

Konop
"NYT-At the outset of the Iraq war, the Bush administration predicted that it would cost $50 billion to $60 billion to oust Saddam Hussein, restore order and install a new government.

Five years in, the Pentagon tags the cost of the Iraq war at roughly $600 billion and counting."\

Sounds like social security, the war on drugs, the war on poverty, and nearly every government program since 1960.

John Konop...I will answer you only ?...
With our last dollar...if that is what it takes :)

How do we pay for this?


Estimates of Iraq War Cost Were Not Close to Ballpark
How do we pay for this?

NYT-At the outset of the Iraq war, the Bush administration predicted that it would cost $50 billion to $60 billion to oust Saddam Hussein, restore order and install a new government.

Five years in, the Pentagon tags the cost of the Iraq war at roughly $600 billion and counting. Joseph E. Stiglitz, a Nobel Prize-winning economist and critic of the war, pegs the long-term cost at more than $4 trillion. The Congressional Budget Office and other analysts say that $1 trillion to $2 trillion is more realistic, depending on troop levels and on how long the American occupation continues.

Among economists and policymakers, the question of how to tally the cost of the war is a matter of hot dispute. And the costs continue to climb.



Inside Story - Cost of Iraq War - Pt. 1

WATCH VIDEO


http://controlcongress.com/uncategorized/estimates-of-iraq- war-cost-were-not-close-to-ballpark

HalD, do you think? ...
That we should withdraw from Iraq at this time?

PS: I am taking a chance here because the last two times I have engaged you in dialogue...my modem has gone down and needed replacement. :)

Hal
Wow, plagiarizing from Cheney now? Admit it; Biden is your idol.

Let me save you some time typing. Just paste this at will:

Halliburton, Bush lied, people died, Iraqi invasion, quagmire, Clinton's great, Clinton's good, let us thank him for our food, Swift boat, Saddam Hussein had notihng to do with 9/11.

Actually, just paste it verbatim. There's no need for coherent sentences.

AZPhil
"Wow, good rebuttal. So what? Can I borrow that? "

Sure I got it from Dick Cheney. That is old history and no where on the scale of Bush, the torturer.

Dogg
"who ever said the Clintons weren't corrupt?"

Well for starters, 80% of the liberals who post here.

Dogg
"particularly since WWII, of much weaker enemies - almost ALL people of color.."

No to pick nits, but our primary enemy since WW2 were the Soviets, who have about as much melanin a a polar bear.

Dogg
"It does not refer to party affiliation - it refers to any war monger"

Okay, then just in the sense of fair play, can you use the word "War-o-crat" from time to time? You know, since it doesn't refer to any party affiliation and all.

Iraq Refugees
This is from the State Dept Weekly Stats Report, 2/27/08, because the US is behind the Iraqi people whose lives have been disrupted:

Refugees in the region: 2-2.4 million
Internally displaced persons in Iraq: 2.2-2.4 million
Total number of Iraqi refugees admitted to the U.S. during to date in FY07-FY08: 3,222

http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/101596.pdf

Iraq Electricity
This is from the State Dept. Iraq Weekly Status Report regarding electricity:
"Service in Baghdad dropped to 5.3 hours per day, while the nationwide average was 11.8 hours."(2005)

This is from the same report for 2008:
"Baghdad 8.0 and nationwide 10.5.Year-ago levels were Baghdad 6.0 and nationwide 9.4."

2005 report:http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/58673.pdf

2008 report
http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/101596.pdf

According to that same 2008 report, almost $4 billion has been spent on the sector.
Then there's also this nugget:

Hal
'Halliburton was used by BJ Bill Clinton in Kosovo with no bids at all. Exactly what you Moonbats accuse Bush of.'

"So what?"

Wow, good rebuttal. So what? Can I borrow that?

Dogg
I see you lke the word "Warpublican". I assume is is a combination of "warmonger" and "republican" since I couldn't find it in my unabridged dictionary.

In any event, specifically to whom are you referring?

Woodrow Wilson, who campaigned in 1916 with the slogan "he kept us out of war", then was re-elected and promptly got us into WW1?

Or maybe Harry Truman, who killed hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians with atomic bombs, then declared war on N. Korea, which most Americans couldn't find on a map (then or now)?

(Disclaimer: I would have dropped the nukes, too).

Or do you mean JFK, who embroiled us in Vietnam, or LBJ, who made the mess worse?

Or possibly Clinton, who "illegally invaded" Bosnia, where I might add, we still have troops? (just like Korea).

Oh wait, those were all democrats...


Hal
"Oh I was with Clinton Wednesday and I thought you might like to know that he looks better than ever lol"

If I were you, I'd get my shirt to a dry cleaner LOL LMAO ROTFL

SHAGGY
I'm actually proud of you! NO, really, did you see what you just wrote to me. I don't care about your thoughts of the mission. Everyone disagrees on those, but you actually said the the troops ALWAYS perform well. NOW, give Buck a big ole smile, tell him the sarge is a happy camper, AND I will do the same for you with my pup when I get home. DEAL????

MDoggg
"... How anti-American are YOU that you'd suppress American speech to further a war that the MAJORITY of this country feels is WRONG! "

Hey he did not but we do not have to love you guys either. I mean look at sgt, gunny etc think I love them LOL

"That ain't how it works, and it's a shame, buit if more soldiers, blame the president and the Iraqi resistence - not Americans voicing their constitutional rights! "

That is why we demand the military resign to speak out politically and that is why what Ollie did lying to Congress was so serious. Trust me if the military gets involved in politics that will be the end of this Republic. We are far to dangerous and efficient.

MDoggg
"Balony - what about the Winter Soldiers and Iraq Vets Against the War - Do THEY count? "

They do count but they are only one portion of the whole

"..regardless, the soldiers voice is irrelevant - of COURSE they love this war - most of the dying is done by Iraqi citizens."

BS total BS most soldier hate war more than you can ever know. That is why Bush was reading books saying ignore the generals they are always anti war and a leader must just ignore them and so he did

"And even if it wasn't - soldiers are not paid to be diplomats, cops or analysts - they're paid to fight. Their opinion ain't worth a nickel as far as I can tell - particularly when they've been part of this magnificant screw up."

Soldiers are apid to break things and people but we also learn. The civilian leadership seems to never learn soldiers never are good policemen. Israel destroyed its army trying to make them policemen


HAL DONAHUE says,
the Colonel cannot stop lying. Hal Donahue, you epitomize the poster boys for ALL Democrats. Every word you bleat oozes Marxism from your bloated mouth. You should be an advisor and get paid for your BS.

You and ALMOST all Democrat politicians LIE about everything and anything to stay in power. If you Socialist liberals did not have the MSM bashing our military that fricking war would be over.

Your lies are getting people killed and your lies are backing people who want to destroy our military by surrendering to al Qaeda in Iraq and round the world.

One question...will you sign on with Islam and become a muslim? You will and all your coward friends will have to, because the military will not be there to protect your sniveling @$$.

Eagleone
The premiss that any conflict is a squeaky clean one is a fantasy. I know you know this as well. These guys and gals went there with what they had. Thats what we had back in 91. No body was screaming bloody murder for upgraded hummers back then. It was all a political scam by the cut and run Doofus's of the left. But, as it turned out, they did need them, and had 14,000 of them in a years time. But nobody reported that!
The bottom line in my book, is that the troops have performed above and beyond the call of duty, and they are my heros.

Iraq Today
Here's what an Iraqi in Baghdad, working for McClatchy (which is something they have to hide from their neighbors) has to say on the fifth anniversary:
"Five years had passed since the multi national invasion head by the USA, but we had witnessed few positives factors including the space of freedom in society and raising the standard of livings for some governmental employees, but the negative factors are so many that made some Iraqis who welcomed the occupied forces wish to have Saddam’s regime back better than the recent days. Nowadays, we lack of power supply, water, fuel, reconstruction and other services .We suffer from corruption in all fields. We suffer from the unemployment. We lack the ration food stuff and its bad quality. The major thing we suffer from is the powerful parties and their mismanagement, abuse of power, discredit, maltreatment and bad faith.
http://washingtonbureau.typepad.com/iraq/2008/03/five-years -ago.html


SSGT
"...here is another compliment for ya! I'm glad you got passed over for your full bird!"

See yet another lie but probably most important you insult a lot of good men who were passed over

SSGT
"... and this particular conflict has been one of the most proficient in Americas history. Fighting for 5 years, 4,000 deaths. One is horrible, 4000 over 5 years considering history and previous conflicts is monumental!"

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/hal-donahue/bushs-greatest-mi litary-_b_80279.html

See I even agree to a point. But all we ever asked of our command authority was not to sell our lives cheaply - Rummy and GW did just that and you for political reasons appear to be making light of that. Eagleone almost certainly agrees with you more than me but he at least admits reality also


SSGT
I agree with much of what you have said. I can see some truth in Hal's statements as well. I can expand upon your thinking in that there are more deaths in NY and CA alone due to crime in that time frame than in Iraq, but that is besides my point. Rumsfeld was in a pickle, he knew he couldnt put 500,000 boots on the ground but still didnt adjust with better equiptment and STANDING ORDERS FOR OUR GUYS TO BE ABLE TO DEFEND THEMSELVES OFFENSIVELY. We made our guys be police. They were not trained to be police. They were trained to blow stuff up and kill the enemy. I understand the Catch 22 that we faced. But a case to my point is Fallujah. We decided to take that town the hard way, house to house and 70 plus good men lost their lives taking that town that way. Fallujah should have been flattened to a pancake from the air after a leaflet campaign that followed completely surrounding the city.

We have been asked to fight this thing with one hands tied behind our back. That COST MORE LIVES on our side. I have finally seen one up-armoured Humvee and bomb truck after another going down the highway near my home town to be flown to Iraq. I should have seen that happen three years ago, min. This is my point SSGT.

Doofus
here is another compliment for ya! I'm glad you got passed over for your full bird!

tweet
tweet

Gotta love it!!!

Eagleone
the war did not happen back in 91 when there were 499,999 military personnel, plus me! It happened now. And I suppose that your going to tell me that we did every the right way back in 91 too! We did not. I was there. Just like in ANY conflict, mistakes occurr. You are polished on the fact that there have been needless deaths due to mistakes, as to where I see it as mistakes, as in all wars happen, and this particular conflict has been one of the most proficient in Americas history. Fighting for 5 years, 4,000 deaths. One is horrible, 4000 over 5 years considering history and previous conflicts is monumental!
There, I said it. And if you agree wiht that Doofus one bit, then you are not on my side of this issue. Hal is a Traitor to the Military.

All you all Bush-haters
Your yelling,"IT'S A FAILURE, IT'S A FAILURE, IT'S A FAILURE" won't make it so. Freedom is always a worthy cause. Support our troops as they protect you and your freedom. George didn't wait until it was too late and I am forever grateful.

All you all
that keep yelling FAILURE,FAILURE, FAILURE

SSGT
"...you are a Traitor to the Uniform. "

Coming from you I take that as a compliment

Hello? Hal?
Hal?

Hal?

Yup, the suit is still empty...

LOL SSGT
You miss taking something this AM? You have a prob with something I said, say it. I supported going to Iraq and FINISHING what was started in 1991. What I dont support is the lack of planning for occupation and the ENDLESS counterproductive rhetoric coming from the left. BOTH HAVE MADE THIS CONFLICT LAST LONGER!!! That kills more soldiers. THAT'S WRONG! The war should have happened 91 days after the failed 90 day cease fire agreement in 1991 when we had 500,000 men there. Two adminstrations later and liberal politics only emboldened them until we finally went back to finish it. I only wish we could have finished it correctly. We have spun our wheels for three years trying to do this thing on the cheap Rumsfeld style. That killed many brave soldiers NEEDLESSLY. We are finally doing things right now militarily. So we now need the Democrat party to finally join us and stop giving shots into the arms to our enemies.

Hal,
You say you are fighting for funding for the vets and their families. Who are you fighting with, the Dems who control Congress?

Eagleone
"Hal, I absolutely feel the same. This is just one of hundreds of the "screw-ups" I was referring to. The Pentagon took two years too long to see that the equiptment left over after the 1990's fire sale of men and material just wasnt going to cut it. So we showed up with too few men, inappropriate equiptment for occupation and NO PLAN. I feel just as strongly towards those that made us go to war in this fashion."

well said thank you


ctamas
"One thing that I almost NEVER see is a liberal's proposal of what to do? Leave Iraq tomorrow and say 'whatever happens, happens'? Give the control to Obama because we just need to talk to them...they'll understand right?"

Both Obama and Hillary have detailed plans on their website Biden has given detailed proposals. The bottomline is we need to rebuild, reequip all while hunting down and destroying Al Q and Obama and stabilising Afghanistan. Al Q in Iraq is not the real Al Q I raq becomes the backwater in the war

"Chamberlain once tried this tactic with Hitler. Hitler said what Chamberlain wanted to hear then did his thing anyways and we ended up with WWII. "

the threats are no where comparable at all


Eagleone
If you and the Doofus have so much to talk about, why don't you go to huff and do it.

Doofus, you are a Traitor to the Uniform.

Hal
"do you feel the same for those who refuse to equip, train and care for our troops and their families"

Hal, I absolutely feel the same. This is just one of hundreds of the "screw-ups" I was referring to. The Pentagon took two years too long to see that the equiptment left over after the 1990's fire sale of men and material just wasnt going to cut it. So we showed up with too few men, inappropriate equiptment for occupation and NO PLAN. I feel just as strongly towards those that made us go to war in this fashion.

Eagleone
"... this is why I cant stand anti-war crowd. "

do you feel the same for those who refuse to equip, train and care for our troops and their families

Joesolis
"At least the phone companies seem to know whose side they're on. Do You? "

No they do not. They apparently forgot about the constitution. I know what side I am on - the American people and the US Constitution.

Hal
Thanks, Hal.

Look up "imply" in the dictionary.


And now we know, don't we?

Listen to Those That Have Served
To understand the validity, reasons then, reasons now, reasons for the future of this conflict, you must talk with those that have served in Iraq. Unlike other conflicts, many have been to Iraq twice and some are coming home from their third tour. Resoundingly, the message of those returning is that while we have screwed up royally in many respects, what we are doing IS WORTH IT. The time for arguing about going to Iraq was over the day after we decided to go. What I cant understand is the continued resistence strictly because of what political party you belong to. The support should be to those who are in harms way. We all know we and NOT LEAVING. The strategic importance of maintaining a strong foothold on either side of Iran and the only region left our tree-huggers have forced us to buy oil from means we are staying indefinitely. To continue the anti Iraq drone only contributes to our enemies goals, not ours. That kills more of our soilders than necessary and this is why I cant stand anti-war crowd.

Hal D
At least the phone companies seem to know whose side they're on. Do You?

Bubba
"HalD, if you are a moderate I am a Duck, you are a flaming liberal, period. "

Start quacking....

What's the solution Hal D?
Hal D and the likes,

Let's all face it...us conservatives are going to drink our kool-aid, you liberals are going to chug yours.

One thing that I almost NEVER see is a liberal's proposal of what to do? Leave Iraq tomorrow and say 'whatever happens, happens'? Give the control to Obama because we just need to talk to them...they'll understand right?

Chamberlain once tried this tactic with Hitler. Hitler said what Chamberlain wanted to hear then did his thing anyways and we ended up with WWII.

Thoughts?

Shaggy
YUCK! lol
And Buck eats it? haha
I do see a lot of things there that would be good for him though!
I cook up some egg whites, no yoke, and give it to the pup with his food. It keeps his coat nice and shiny and oily.

Doofus
croaks:
"That is a very simple lie. I support the mission of hunting down and destroying Al Q and Osama"
RIB-BIT, RIB-BIT

I wonder what part of AL Q they are killing in Irag, aren't part of your comment?
moron

Bubba
the Doofus is on fire, QUICK, anyone got water? Oh, wait, never mind!

Primus54
"You have frequently implied that your status as a veteran gives you some moral authority or unique military knowledge unavailable to non-veterans."

I have said in my experience... I claim no moral authority I do claim experience but that isn't claiming suppority. I have been lucky/unlucky and lived an exciting life to date. We all speak from our experiences.

"That's why you are being asked to prove your bona fides. If you cannot - just say so. "

I can but will not my name is real and there are plenty of public sources. But I will say it again you know where I live, where I am from etc the rest of the "work" is yours. I am just a guy but evidently just because I disagree strongly with you I am to be attacked repeatedly rather than the issues - so be it

The Black Cherokee
"...Have a Blessed Easter, EVERYONE!!"

You too and be well


Nee/trolls
"..Go spew someplace else. The Heritage foundation has a report out about what kind of troops are signing up to serve...voluntarily, don't forget. "

Ahh yes as do police and firemen is that any reason to use them up and through them away like Vitters or Craigs used tissues.

"HalD doesn't support the troops, because he cannot support the mission. It is incongruent to even say such a thing."

That is a very simple lie. I support the mission of hunting down and destroying Al Q and Osama.

"He is a chest puffer and is down with those who support the war. If there were no war, he would not be able to chest puff and claim that the work he does is all important to the troops. "

That would be the happiest day of my life no war as long as the veterans are cared for as promised. I don't puff my chest up - the issue is Bush Regime gross incompetence and support for the troops - not me at all

"An oxymoron, to say the least. One administration did not create shortages in the military like Hal claims, and one administration did not fukk up the medical care of our troops. "

seven years can destroy readiness etc Carter did it in three

"It is going to take privatizing and competition to make it better. Palin and simple."

No it isn't and it is going to take BILLIONS of dollars also

Moderate
HalD, if you are a moderate I am a Duck, you are a flaming liberal, period.

Hal
I'll make this real simple for you.

You have frequently implied that your status as a veteran gives you some moral authority or unique military knowledge unavailable to non-veterans.

That's why you are being asked to prove your bona fides.

If you cannot - just say so.

Nee
"Is this what you call conduct becoming of a Ret. officer,or even better...are your diatribes the kind that reflect the "Constitution" of the American Legion? Do you think anyone cares that your fellow Legionaires paid for a life membership? "

I stand with Lincoln and Teddy and support the constitution. As far as the American legion goes they abandoned the troops and vets reminding me of when they went and visited Mussolini and wanted to get him a life membership.

"I suppose a little trial to strip you of that memebership is of no concern while you bash those who support the war and the President?"

It would be an honor the legion betrayed the troops to quote Bob Dole where the h*ll were the VSOs? We all know the answer kissing Bush's ring like the Legion did Mussolini's

"It is one thing to have an opinion, but you degrade what it means to be an officer of the US military and a Legionaire. You just palin reek of self-importance and chest puffing."

Actually I don't I am just a man who will not stay silent while my country is being damaged

" We see who you are Hal. And, if may speak for many of the regulars I know since 2006, you are self-serving, stuck on your own perceived brilliance and a pompous asss. "

Well thank goodness that most of the ones I meet don't feel that way they say thank you. Attack away I can take it but don't kid yourself you are not supporting the troops, veterans or the c ountry.

But why attack me and make me the issue I am just one little guy standing up. Are you that afraid to even consider you may be mistaken about your actions?

"Go live with all your famous friends if you think thatis going to save your sorry asss. It won't. "

From?

God Bless our troops!!!
God Bless our troops! They are the best men and women in our country.
Despite the enemies to liberty and freedom within our academia, media and government, Lord willing our troops will prevail.
Thank you for going there to protect us here against terrorism. I pray for your continued success. I pray for the people in Iraq and Iran and all of the middle east who have a passionate desire for freedom. I also pray that the citizens of the USA will not take their freedom for granted. But will instead use freedom to honor God and the soldiers who have given their lives for it.

The bright side
The bright side
The obvious win is that the Sunni feeling of inevitability was broken. Al Qaeda and Saudi Arabia were promoting Wahabism and on a roll. Allah was with them obviously. Now, not so much. By empowering the historically more peace loving Iraqi Shiites we did more for the Muslim world than is ever given credit for. Saddam was their biggest enemy and a barrier for the Sunnis. Now he is gone and the Sunnis and Shiites can continue their longstanding historical enmity with more even odds. A beautiful strategic win for the US and all the West!

Great column Col. North....
...and, of course, that is to be expected!

I just wish the MSM would be half so cognizant of the truth when reporting on Iraq. At least then the rest of the world (non TH people) could know what is really happening over there.

Have a Blessed Easter, EVERYONE!!

Remember today is, in fact, Good Friday and we would all do well to remember why WE call it GOOD Friday.

TBC `:>)

For all other trolls
Go spew someplace else. The Heritage foundation has a report out about what kind of troops are signing up to serve...voluntarily, don't forget. HalD doesn't support the troops, because he cannot support the mission. It is incongruent to even say such a thing. He is a chest puffer and is down with those who support the war. If there were no war, he would not be able to chest puff and claim that the work he does is all important to the troops. An oxymoron, to say the least. One administration did not create shortages in the military like Hal claims, and one administration did not fukk up the medical care of our troops. It is going to take privatizing and competition to make it better. Palin and simple.
Ollie is right on.

SSGT
"She'll cut the military just like her old man did. And you claim support for the truth. Your a liar! LIAR!!!! "

LMAO and what does one have to do with the other?

Primus54
"Nobody's asking you to disprove a negative, which your example implies."

Certainly you are read above and hundreds of other [places on this thread. I should appease you why? BS

"You claim to be retired military. Other than Robert, you seem to be the only "veteran" who regularly visits these threads that is unable to prove it."

Prove it to whom? LOL. Don't you think someone would have "proven me" a phony long ago? Gunny actually promised to. And I do have a standing offer for anyone to meet me at Walter Reed whenever I am there which is often

"And while I'm only 6 ft., 195 lbs., I suppose I am a "little man" compared to you. But I'll take it as a compliment. "

I was referring to your comments not your stature which I had assumed was very large...

Dogg
I have never read one, not one positive thing from you. I did not accuse you of anything. I asked a simple question. Your response could simply have been, I do not hate my country. But you go on to all the lefts talking points about the most efficient war processed in american history as being a failure. Its not a failure, shaggy! History will show what this meant for our country as well as with Iraq.
By the way, I am well, and so is the pup. Mr. Buck?

MDoggg
Okay - you've had your 15 minutes of "Warpublican" and Bush-bashing fun.

Now, STFU and get back to the crack-pipe, moron.

HalD
Is this what you call conduct becoming of a Ret. officer,or even better...are your diatribes the kind that reflect the "Constitution" of the American Legion? Do you think anyone cares that your fellow Legionaires paid for a life membership? I suppose a little trial to strip you of that memebership is of no concern while you bash those who support the war and the President? It is one thing to have an opinion, but you degrade what it means to be an officer of the US military and a Legionaire. You just palin reek of self-importance and chest puffing. We see who you are Hal. And, if may speak for many of the regulars I know since 2006, you are self-serving, stuck on your own perceived brilliance and a pompous asss. Go live with all your famous friends if you think thatis going to save your sorry asss. It won't. But, hey. I abe you make enough money to go live in Europe, so be my guest and DLTDHY.

Doofus the drooler
who are supporting? Hitlary? She'll cut the military just like her old man did. And you claim support for the truth. Your a liar! LIAR!!!!

Hal
Nice diversion - but I've been to military.com, and you have nothing to fear about sensitive information falling into the wrong hands. Hahaha!

Nobody's asking you to disprove a negative, which your example implies.

You claim to be retired military. Other than Robert, you seem to be the only "veteran" who regularly visits these threads that is unable to prove it.

And while I'm only 6 ft., 195 lbs., I suppose I am a "little man" compared to you. But I'll take it as a compliment.

For you blind followers
"To sin by silence when they should protest makes cowards of men." Abraham Lincoln

Teddy Roosevelt-
"To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." Theodore Roosevelt.

Shaggy
why do you hate this country so much? Its a simple question!

Doofus is drooling
is there a pinch in a nerve there, Doofus. You don't need a SSN for what we request from you. My records, GunnyG's, Doc, Lumberjacks, all on the military.com service under name only. Where is yours, Doofus? They don't give any personals on the site either! Where are yours Doofus???
They ain't showing up, Doofus.

SSGT
"Propaganda????. Some in the field of reporting, might call it, wellll, REPORTING, moron. You call it propaganda because it does not conform to your whacko cut and run mentality, loser! "

Not at all. But far to much propaganda, I have NEVER heard Ollie referred to as a "reporter" LOL

"Where are your records on line? Mine are there and many folks here have seen them. Where are yours "

Read above

"Who supports the troops more, doofus, Col North who is there bringing us heroic commentary on the troops! Or you, sitting here looking like an azzzz, cutting and running at every turn? "

That is easy - Me who is fighting for funding for the military and veterans. Ollie is hurting the troops and their families. Too bad he doesn't care to actually do something to get them the funding they are owed but wait he has to fight for tax cuts for the rich???

Primus54
"C'mon, Hal. Provide an authentic link to a government database that lists your name and service. Why aren't you listed on military.com?

Oh no little guy let me give you an answer I gave before:

"I will tell you exactly why. Suppose I said I had proof that you performed unnatural public acts in the 70's and demanded you prove it wasn't you by releasing all your records SSAN, address all personal data. I hope you would tell me no. The above is the classic tactic of a police state or other bully types. To give in to that BS is nonsense. No one has to prove they are not guility especially to two cent would be tough guys. They can produce facts or kiss by backside."

SSGT
You and I both know that all it would take for Hal to pull the ultimate "gotcha" on us would be to provide just one link to an official database, yet somehow he can't seem to provide one.

For months, unlike the obvious fantasies of "Robert", I was willing to give Hal the benefit of the doubt on his service claims.

Not anymore... he needs to prove it.

Iraq: Veteran to Veteran...............
The praise for our people in harmsway cannot be said enough or posted enough. I know as Mr North knows, our troops `DO NOT LIKE TO LOSE OR LEAVE A JOB UNDONE'. In Nam we had rules and bourders we could not cross written by or own government, that cost us thousands of lives, and casualties.
When you, YES YOU, the American people send us off to fight and possibly die, do not constrain us with silly rules and bourders. Let us take the fight to the Enemy and be victorius.
But also, do not let politicians change the laws and rights of their promises to us for defending us all. Do not let them cut the funds to care for US that need it. Do not let then cut the funding for cures and new means of treatment for us. Do not let them debase us with mis diagnosis so they do not have to pay out benefits that we are entitled to.
Support US, but do not support those that betray US AND YOU.

Doofus
spews:
"Allowing our troops to be ground down in a desert for years fighting insurgents and allowing Al Q to grow and thrive defines failure no matter the outcome now. But we need the adults to take over now."

Col North = MAN

Lite Col Doofus = MOUSE

Hal Drunkahue
spitals:
"He is paid very well to go to Iraq and do propaganda."

Propaganda????. Some in the field of reporting, might call it, wellll, REPORTING, moron. You call it propaganda because it does not conform to your whacko cut and run mentality, loser! Where are your records on line? Mine are there and many folks here have seen them. Where are yours Drunkahue?
Who supports the troops more, doofus, Col North who is there bringing us heroic commentary on the troops! Or you, sitting here looking like an azzzz, cutting and running at every turn?

Hal "LMAO" Donahue writes:
A lot of words in your 9:34 post to again prove nothing.

C'mon, Hal. Provide an authentic link to a government database that lists your name and service. Why aren't you listed on military.com?

And no, Hal - your self-penned "biography" at HuffPost doesn't count - and despite "Google's" success, it's not an official government database either.

Brujo Blanco
"Bottom line is....
that the American MSM has not been truthful in their reporting of the war."

Actually you are right they followed right along supporting Bush until the Bush Regime's incompetence began to be exposed. The press has a saying "if it bleeds -- it leads". They are NOT in the business of printing good news nor should they be. Why we left Vietnam was because the American People lost faith and confidence in their government that was because their government LIED to them. As always, the US military did its job. Sadly the administration did not. Does this sound familiar?

"...This article is accurate. It is sad that there are those citizens and people in government that want military failure overseas for politcal advantage at home. "

There can be no military failure there can only be political failure and guess what? Allowing our troops to be ground down in a desert for years fighting insurgents and allowing Al Q to grow and thrive defines failure no matter the outcome now. But we need the adults to take over now.

Primus54
"After months of attempts to get you to post anything substantive or official to back your claims as a veteran, certain people have vetted you out."

With the usual fundamentalist conservative efficiency I see LMAO. I offered to make it easy several times. I am at Walter Reed next week if anyone wants to stop buy for coffee. I think on Thursday. Just google me

"The result - they have found you to be either: a liar; or, your discharge was under such mysterious circumstances that your records do not show up on publicly available military databases."

Yet here I am and I use my real name I even.

"Like clockwork, week after week you show up here at Col. North's column and denigrate his service, and seldom have anything to disprove his facts. How many embedded trips have YOU made to Iraq?"

"denigrate his service" ???? Ollie did that when he violated his oath by lying to Congress. I have even said on TH that he was an outstanding officer until that day before Congress. He is paid very well to go to Iraq and do propaganda.

"You're nothing but another DNC shill whose interests are more in line with our enemies than the brave warriors who protect your right to be a moron. "

I am one of those warriors albeit retired now. My interests are to protect the constitution and help the military and veterans. Yours and Ollie's seems to be to spew rightwing nonsense and sell out the troops, their familes and America. It takes more than words.

jerabaub - Ethnic cleansing
--
Says jerabaub:

"After 5 years, roughly 20% of Iraqi population are either refugees in Syria and Jordan, or displaced within Iraq, unable to return to their homes due to 'ethnic(religious)cleansing' between sunnis and shias."


It's not quite that simple, but that's certainly a better depiction than "civil war."

A civil war is fought either to take control of the central government (the English Civil War) or to secede from a pre-existing power (the American Revolution, the War of Northern Aggression, etc.).

The Sunni former members of the Arab Socialist Ba'ath Party who supported the tyranny of Saddam Hussein are simply trying to live through the payback their decades of rape, torture, and murder have earned them.

Anybody aware of the fact that most of the Kurds in Iraq are *also* Sunni?

And that Shi'ite Arabs from the south have been using the Kurdish north as their favorite vacation area? Where the Kurds are friendly, hospitable, and free?

As usual, the root weevils of the MSM haven't got a tenth of the story, and they're unwilling to report even the smidgen of truth that might conflict with the bigotries they're trying to sell.

As for the politicians and the pundits (on the right as well as the left), well....

Forget Col. North. I want to hear what Col. Austin Bay might have to say on the subject.

*Him* I've found thorough, intelligible, and reliable over the years.

Ollie is far too much the pliant Republican mouthpiece.

--

jerabaub - Ethnic cleansing
--
Says jerabaub:

"After 5 years, roughly 20% of Iraqi population are either refugees in Syria and Jordan, or displaced within Iraq, unable to return to their homes due to 'ethnic(religious)cleansing' between sunnis and shias."


It's not quite that simple, but that's certainly a better depiction than "civil war."

A civil war is fought either to take control of the central government (the English Civil War) or to secede from a pre-existing power (the American Revolution, the War of Northern Aggression, etc.).

The Sunni Arabs of Iraq - more accurately, the Sunni members of the Arab Socialist Ba'ath Party who supported and shared in the tyranny of Saddam Hussein - are simply trying to live through the payback their decades of pillage, rape, torture, and murder have earned them.

Anybody reading this aware of the fact that most of the Kurds in Iraq are *also* Sunni?

And that Shi'ite Arabs from the south have been using the Kurdish north as their favorite vacation area? Where life is more peaceful and predictable, and the Kurds are friendly, hospitable, and free?

Where al-Quaeda and the Ba'athi are dead meat?

No "religious(ethnic)cleansing" going on there at all.

As usual - anywhere, any time in my long life - the root weevils of the MSM haven't got a piddlin' tenth of the story, and they're unwilling to report even the smidgen of truth in that story which might in any way conflict with the bigotries they're trying to sell.

As for the politicians and the chattering pundits (on the right as well as the left), well....

Forget Col. North. I want to hear what Col. Austin Bay might have to say on the subject.

*Him* I've found thorough, intelligible, and reliable over the years.

Ollie is far too much the pliant Republican mouthpiece.

--

Bottom line is....
that the American MSM has not been truthful in their reporting of the war. This happened big time during the Viet Nam war and it is happening now. The MSM in general consider themselves neutrals in the conflict. This article is accurate. It is sad that there are those citizens and people in government that want military failure overseas for politcal advantage at home. James Clyburn commented that military success is not good news for the Democrats.

No Credibility
Sorry, Hal "LMAO" Donahue.

After months of attempts to get you to post anything substantive or official to back your claims as a veteran, certain people have vetted you out.

The result - they have found you to be either: a liar; or, your discharge was under such mysterious circumstances that your records do not show up on publicly available military databases.

Like clockwork, week after week you show up here at Col. North's column and denigrate his service, and seldom have anything to disprove his facts. How many embedded trips have YOU made to Iraq?

You're nothing but another DNC shill whose interests are more in line with our enemies than the brave warriors who protect your right to be a moron.

Bubba
"Hal D and Joseph, you cannot comprehend what you read. "

With Joseph you probably are right but trust me I do comprehend every word..


Bubba
"Halliburton was used by BJ Bill Clinton in Kosovo with no bids at all. Exactly what you Moonbats accuse Bush of."

So what? and at what cost. I love the way you guys keep going back in history I guess because you are so mired in the past? Oh I was with Clinton Wednesday and I thought you might like to know that he looks better than ever lol

"...You are outnumbered about a 1000 to 1 every time you post."

Sure we are but we are here and any unsuspecting innocent wandering in will know a lot of what is said in here is not true or so twisted that it is almost obscene

"Conservatives will not buy into your liberal mantra, whether it is about Obama, Hillary, War on Terror, taxes, health care, troop support, abortion, illegal aliens, etc. Get the picture."

No actually many recovering conservatives are finding a better brighter life with us moderates.

Hey Bubba...
Clinton and Bush can go to Hades arm-in-arm as far as I'm concerned. Bush just went all-in on stupidity, Clinton a little less so.

Hey e-mail...
"Rome
was not built in a day."

Nor did its descent into tyranny take a day. Nor did the crumbling of its empire take a day.

Maybe that was your point, and if so I agree.

Halliburton
Halliburton was used by BJ Bill Clinton in Kosovo with no bids at all. Exactly what you Moonbats accuse Bush of.

Can you folks please get some new material and have some actual facts to back it up.

By the way, I see the same 4 or 5 of you on every post with the same bullsh*t.

You are outnumbered about a 1000 to 1 every time you post.

Conservatives will not buy into your liberal mantra, whether it is about Obama, Hillary, War on Terror, taxes, health care, troop support, abortion, illegal aliens, etc. Get the picture.

Nellie's Favorite Bubba

ctamas
"You can't just jump in, call Bush a torturer,"

I certainly can he admits water boarding and vetoed a law to outlaw water boarding. The US has prosecuted individuals for using water boarding calling it torture. There is no doubt among civilized nations that water boarding is torture none. I find it amazing that the fundamentalist conservative who claim a special relationship with Christianity are the very ones to excuse the US authorizing torture for the first time in our history

"... give an individual story about one plane falling apart, "

Wrong over 400 are still grounded and the wear on ALL our military equipment is FAR beyond expected. You will have to pay much higher taxes I guess to replace that stuff

"and then claim that we don't want to help the wounded."

Oh yes I can their is story after story of underfunding and mismanagement of medical care. The Ds say fully fund VA you deadbeats oppose it

"If I'm not mistaken, it's mostly your Democrat elected officials that greatly help to reduce these funds and pass other bills (like FISA) to help try to defeat our troops and thus, our own country. Truly disheartening. Let us know when you join reality. "

You are very mistaken. Do a tiny bit of research the D's support funding our troops and caring for our veterans you deadbeats again oppose it. Here you go again with the FISA nonsense. Bush has vetoed every bill because they refuse to give amnesty to phone companies. I thought you opposed amnesty? Bush is the hold up on FISA not congress.

You know it is amazing how you deadbeats make issues out of things that require no action. Let's see the flag amendment, the marriage amendment, FISA all nonsense emotion issues that accomplish nothing. Sorry it is over the American people have caught on


Ollie, Listen Up!
It may be better now, but we had no provocation for invading Iraq. We cannot be the global police. And if you think so, why are we not bombing China to quell the killing of the Tibetans? And don't you think for a moment that the cost of the Iraqi invasion may be at the root of our dollar problem? If we had spent all of the Iraqi costs, instead, to finding an alternative to oil, or investing in the oil fields of the world, as the Chinese have done, where would we be now? People who support the war in Iraq beyond a short reasonable time in the future are single-sighted war lovers. Claiming that the Surge was great is merely a glowing cover for the ridiculous mistakes of Jorge Bush and his supporters. History is repeating itself - China is burying us, much as we did to the USSR. But we are "willingly" helping China to do so when the end result is so obvious. Thus, perhaps that is the intended result -- make the world a flat playing field, no borders, "free" trade, etc.

Rome
was not built in a day.

More realism.
It is probably true we could make an even larger fiasco in Iraq than the one G.W. Bush left us with, by a premature withdrawal.

Those who counsel matters cannot get any worse, fail to realize that they can indeed get worse. .

After 5 years, 4,000 American deaths, 20,000+ horrific lifelong injuries to our troops, billions of U.S. tax money "invested' in Iraq, what has been achieved?

1. A democratically elected Iraqi parliament that openly sideed with Hezbollah(in last year's confrontation with Israel in Lebanon).

2. An Iraqi president Jalal Talibani who graciously hosted Iranian leader Ahmadinejad recently, warmly held his hand, and entreated the Iranian leader to call him "Uncle Jalal".

3. After 5 years, roughly 20% of Iraqi population are either refugees in Syria and Jordan, or displaced within Iraq, unable to return to their homes due to "ethnic(religious)cleansing" between sunnis and shias.

If that occurred in the U.S., that figure would be 60 million people.

4. After five years, U.S. taxpayers funnel billions of dollars into Iraq reconstruction, even when GAO(David Walker)predicts Iraq oil revenues will be 56 billion dollars in 2008.

Why is that money not being used? Where is it? How much has been skimmed off by corrupt Iraqi officials?

5. After 5 years, we still must erect barricades and walls to separate sunnis from shias, to stem the deaths.

ctamas
"To answer Hal D's question...most, if not all, conservative and common sense people are willing to pay for this war and/or any wounded soldier or family that has lost a true warrior of freedom. "

Well golly gee, you have had SIX years to at least begin to pay and the debts keep mounting and our injured and wounded and their families are still waiting and fighting for care they earned. But wait does your meaning lie in the term "true warrior of freedom. Are you saying that Rush's "phoney soldiers" like the wounded vet he compared to a suicide bomber should not be eligible?

"We'd much rather pay for our heroes then for a welfare check, for example, for lazy 'Americans' who could give a hoot about trying to get a job...or pay for their health care bill...or for an illegal immigrant. "

Nah this is just an excuse because you are more than willing to send welfare checks to companies like Halliburton, blackwater, big banks and NY trading companies

What Ollie Doesn't Say
I don't have a problem with Ollie playing the victim, it's what passes here. One example from his report stands out as a sign of "progress" in Iraq. Ollie says:"In February (2008), crude oil production exceeded 2.4 million barrels per day, and this year, the Iraqi economy is projected to grow by 7 percent."

Let's see what the Iraq weekly report, published by the State Dept. says about oil production in 2005:

(Pre-War Peak: 2.5 MBPD in March 2003)

That's right, after just 5 years of reconstruction in Iraq, spending $1.8 billion for that sector alone, the Oil Ministry has a goal of producing less oil/day than before the war.

Wonderful

Yes we are
To answer Hal D's question...most, if not all, conservative and common sense people are willing to pay for this war and/or any wounded soldier or family that has lost a true warrior of freedom. We'd much rather pay for our heroes then for a welfare check, for example, for lazy 'Americans' who could give a hoot about trying to get a job...or pay for their health care bill...or for an illegal immigrant.

You can't just jump in, call Bush a torturer, give an individual story about one plane falling apart, and then claim that we don't want to help the wounded. If I'm not mistaken, it's mostly your Democrat elected officials that greatly help to reduce these funds and pass other bills (like FISA) to help try to defeat our troops and thus, our own country. Truly disheartening. Let us know when you join reality.

Your list of "accomplishments" ...
... can go on, and on, and on, and on, ...

Where does it end Col. North?

Can YOU, since the Bush administration has not, define specifically what "win" is?

What does that "finish line" look like Col. North???

When CAN we pull our troops out? What, when you, Bush, who will be a faded memory in a few short months, or bloviating talking heads say so?

Granted, to pull out now would be at least partially disastrous, but hey, therein lies the big benefit of the nice catch-22 that we've created for ourselves as a result of Bush's renegade, and I mean that literally, decision making which was about as well thought out after the initial and real military campaign sans all the social worker work, as a man jumping off a cliff w/o a parachute to get the thrill of a free fall.

I'll save the discussion of "free falls" for another day, eh.

You carry a degree of credibility Col. North! But when you and others continue to blindly support a "war" which really isn't a war anymore, and what is extends itself well beyond the national boundaries of Iraq yet we do little elsewhere to contain the same, including within our own nation, then you begin to lose that credibility.

Again, "winning," "making progress," etc. is all fine and dandy. When have we "WON" or "MADE ALL THE PROGRESS THAT WE SET OUT TO MAKE" in detail there Col. North???

If you want to write something worthwhile, start there!

Obama
Obama claims to be the only candidate who was against the war from mthe start. Well, check out this quote:

“There's not much of a difference between my position and George Bush's position at this stage.” [re: Iraq War, Chicago Tribune, 07/27/04]

Hal D and Joseph, you cannot comprehend what you read.

Mr. North, please tell our troops thanks from this Ole Redneck. They are appreciated down here in the South.

If you are ever in Dallas come to DFW on a Saturday and see how we welcome home the troops and send them off with our love. A guy named Bert Brady is the leader of the bunch and a great American he is.

Ollie just cannot stop lying
"The consistent spin for five years has been to get out of Iraq, and despite extraordinary gains in the past 12 months, it hasn't stopped."

Really and this is why GW, torturer, was reelected? Let's talk the last 60 months not 12. Where were you when there was not enough or proper equipment? Where are you when our "volunteer" military is repeatedly sent back for combat tour after combat tour with little relief. Where are you when the wings are literally falling off our aircraft? Finally where are you when military care for our troops is being withheld.

"...Our military is badly overstretched." He promised he would "immediately begin to remove our troops from Iraq" and "remove all of them in 16 months."

Let me ask you Ollie, are all the generals including the commandant of the marine corp lying when they agree with "badly overstretched". What is victory in Iraq? Please tell me. And the real question: ARE YOU READY TO PAY FOR THIS WAR AND CARE OF THE TROOPS AND VETERANS?

You disgraced your uniform and your oath once when you received felony convictions for lying to congress under oath. The ACLU helped get those convictions thrown out on technicalities not the fact you lied. Too bad you still play politics with the troops and their families.


Off your meds already?
Joseph,

I think your tinfoil hat is slipping off.

-Ray

The reason we are in Iraq
On March 18, in Washington, D.C. three official representatives of the Obama, Clinton and McCain campaigns came before Jewish leaders and promised their candidate’s complete subservience to Israel. The three representatives that spoke were Lawrence Eagleburger for McCain, Ann Lewis for Clinton, and Daniel Kurtzer, former U.S. Ambassador to Israel, for Obama.
The Washington Post (Audacity of Chutzpah, Dana Milbank, March 18, 2008) quotes Ann Lewis as saying:
“The role of the President of the United States is to support the decisions that are made by the people of Israel.”

We are winning the Battle in Iraq
and the WOT. We will win against the 5th column too. Thank you Ollie North and Fox News for bringing us honest reporting.

Those of us who
Served in Viet Nam know all too well how the media emboldens our enemies and denigrates those who protect their freedoms. Today they are repeating their activites of old to cause defeat.

Like Oh4Joy said, thank you for an honest report that presents truth. It is sorely lacking in our media today, again.

Mr. North
I appreciate your positive and honest reports concerning Iraq. I watch your War Stories when I can even though I don't watch TV.

You're a wonderful example to all of us. And are a hero for your brave service while under attack in the wars and at home!

I hope you and your family are happy and well.
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