Townhall.com, Where Your Opinion Counts
Talk Radio:   Bill Bennett   Mike Gallagher   Dennis Prager   Michael Medved   Hugh Hewitt   
BREAKING NEWS  LeftArrow - Townhall.com : Conservative, Political, Republican   RightArrow - Townhall.com : Conservative, Political, Republican  
Columns, funnies & more in your inbox!
  • Check the boxes and send us your email address to receveive your free newsletter
  • Your daily must-read of conservative columns, cartoons and news. Coulter, Sowell, Krauthammer and more.
  • Townhall.com’s weekly inside scoop on what’s happening behind the scenes in the world of politics. When news breaks, we report.
  • Signup to receive the latest daily Townhall cartoons
Friday, August 10, 2007
Oliver North :: Townhall.com Columnist
Doing the Right Thing
by Oliver North
Vote on It:
Average Vote:
[+] Text [-]
 
Poll
What would you rather watch?

WASHINGTON -- For three years, politicians and pundits have been challenging the president's policy of spreading democracy around the world. Can't be done, particularly in the Middle East, they tell us. Won't help to make us safer, they claim. It's become a mantra of the left. To support their assertion that democracy has reached inevitable limits, they cite problems in Afghanistan with a resurgent Taliban and, of course, the U.S. "failure" in Iraq. Both of these issues were raised repeatedly with President Bush during his news conference on the economy this week.

Despite evidence of progress on the ground in Iraq, the masters of the media intend to continue their barrage of defeatism, and the majority in Congress appear unwilling to desist in their attacks. The mainstream media all but ignored news releases from Iraqi and coalition commands on successes against both Iranian-backed terror cells in Baghdad's Sadr City and Al Qaeda's network in Northern Iraq, Salahuddin, Diyala and Anbar provinces.

Instead of covering these stories with in-depth reporting from the front, the potentates of the press launched a shock-and-awe campaign of their own. The target? The Iraqi Parliament -- for taking a monthlong recess in the midst of a war.

Perhaps the media and politicians who are so outraged that the Iraqi legislature is on vacation should learn a bit of history. The British Parliament recessed for all but one holiday -- the summer of 1940 -- throughout World War II. In keeping with this democratic tradition, the U.S. Congress has done the same thing during every war we have fought, including our own Revolution.

Rather than firing barbs at the Iraqi legislature, critics should focus their ire on Capitol Hill. The 110th Congress, led by Sen. Harry Reid and Speaker Nancy Pelosi, is setting new records for irresponsible behavior. Though they have found time to launch more than 600 investigatory hearings, our good senators and congressmen fled Washington this week for a month in the sun without passing any of a dozen appropriations bills, including those needed to support our troops in the field. This week, the shipment of new armored vehicles, necessary to protect U.S. soldiers from deadly Improvised Explosive Devices (IEDs), was postponed for lack of funding.

Little of this congressional misfeasance -- or its consequences -- made its way onto the front pages of major U.S. newspapers or the network news. Nor was anything but scant attention paid to a recent nationwide USA Today/Gallup Poll showing the proportion of those who believe that additional U.S. troops are making the situation better in Iraq rose to 31 percent. That's up from 22 percent a month ago. Those who said it was not making much difference dropped from 51 percent to 41 percent.

A shift in public opinion this significant would be hyped in any political campaign -- and likely make the pundits take notice. Instead, almost to prove the people wrong, we have been treated to yet another avalanche of headlines and lead stories bemoaning bad things in Iraq. "Five More Boycott Iraq Cabinet Sessions," said an Associated Press headline. "Iraqi Political Crisis Worsens," screamed ABC News. "26 U.S. Troops Killed in 1 Week in Iraq," blared a CBS headline. The Washington Post ran, "Weapons Given to Iraq Are Missing."

The Bush administration has, up to now, been able to alter the negative editorial perspective of those who decide what will and will not be reported about this war. For the past six months, that task has fallen to Gen. David Petraeus. He certainly has tried.

During an exclusive interview this week on FOX News Radio's Alan Colmes Show, Colmes asked the general bluntly, "Is the surge working?" His reply: "It is. We are making progress. We have achieved tactical momentum in many areas, especially against Al Qaeda in Iraq, and to a lesser degree against the militia extremists. We're also heartened by the number of Iraqi tribes and local?citizens who have rejected Al Qaeda."

Asked whether Iraqis could take over their own security, the general replied, "They have actually taken over security in a number of different places If you look at Samawa, Nasiriyah, Najaf, Karbala -- we hardly have any forces in those locations at all."

Though Alan Colmes is anything but a shill for the Bush administration, his liberal media colleagues simply ignored these previews of what Gen. Petraeus will tell Congress in September. One can only conclude that they don't want the American people to get any good news from the battlefield.

It's time to face facts. The American media simply isn't going to march in step with this war. My eight trips, embedded with U.S. units, letting our troops tell the story, haven't been enough. Having the battlefield commander tell the story hasn't worked. Neither have video conferences from the Situation Room, talking points issued by the Pentagon or news conferences such as this week's from the White House press room.

There is, however, a way to reach the American people while our Congress is on vacation. Chief Executive George W. Bush can't do it from Washington or his dad's place in Kennebunkport, Maine. After kissing French President Nicholas Sarkozy on the cheek and taking him out to fish, Commander in Chief George W. Bush needs to jump on Air Force One and fly to Iraq.

Now is the time to change the paradigm, Mr. President. Your visit will confound America's adversaries and reassure our allies. The troops will be forever grateful. And most Americans will admire you for going because it's the right thing to do.

Share:
Vote on It:
Average Vote:
 
About The Author

Oliver North is the founder and honorary chairman of Freedom Alliance and author of The Assassins .

Be the first to read Oliver North's column. Sign up today and receive Townhall.com delivered each morning to your inbox.

©Creators Syndicate
Great Presidential advice Col.....
...and a great column to preface that advice. One can only hope President Bush takes it, goes to Iraq and gives a news conference there -- with General Petraeus at his side, with charts and maps. Maybe he can get the new British PM (Brown?) to meet him there and they can give a joint news conference.

I am not being sarcastic when I say this, but it would be nice to also see Pres. Bush give this news conference from Anbar Province or some other place besides the "Green Zone"!

Even with that, the cretin led congress or the moronic MSM probably wouldn't pick up on it.
TBC :>)

Prime example
of what Col. North is talking about in funky p's comment. Totally ignored is any good news. Continued is the leftist lie of oil. Delusional with it is a lost cause. Ridiculous is that it is "running out the clock," like it is a ball game.

To the left it is a game, a game to subdue the nation into buying into the Socialist agenda of rebirthing the Soviet Union in America, never seeing the dangers confronting westrn civilization, and even their Socialism, spreading this way from radical Jihadists.

Jihadists are fighting an open ended war against us, have been since 1979. We better be prepared to also, or surrender. The left has already surrendered. Will you?

There are none
so blind as those who will not see.

One can never see any progress when all one desires to see is the lack of it.

Investigative Committees and hearings
Dear Colonel, Ollie, 600 of the subject? That means budgets, Chairmen and Co-chairmen and "staff." Never mind the staff. We all get the staff.

All of our public servants are paid for their "service." Right? Maybe somebody can list, by Congressman their compensation. I don't mean just Democrats.

Maybe a list of the money paid to our servants, over their base self-raised pay would be enlightening,
sincerely, Bill Walker

Col. North is Right, but . . . .
I am afraid if Bush took his advise and went to Iraq, the morally corrupt and intellectually dishonest mainstream media would probably find fault anyway. I can just see the headlines now, "Under Tight Security Lockdown . . . ", "While Bush Chats in Baghdad, Bombs Explode in Karbala", "Bush Trip Accomplishes Little."

The traditional media leaders are just too far gone to convince on Bush, the GOP or anything conservative. But, there is hope ahead. All, every single one, of the top ten liberal newspapers are down in circulation, down in readership and down in advertising revenue.

The reason is simple, they are increasingly out of touch and out of sync with America. Now that Murdoch is taking over the WSJ, watch for a direct frontal assault on print media where they live. 2008 could be a turning point, when far left special interest groups and their sycophants in the mainstream media become increasingly irrelevant.

We can hope so.

Ollie
"It's time to face facts. The American media simply isn't going to march in step with this war. My eight trips, embedded with U.S. units, letting our troops tell the story, haven't been enough. Having the battlefield commander tell the story hasn't worked. Neither have video conferences from the Situation Room, talking points issued by the Pentagon or news conferences such as this week's from the White House press room."

What you do not understand is Bush has lost the faith and confidence of the American people. If he goes to Iraq, he should announce the time and place of his visit. Your credibility was shot years ago except to the extreme conservatives. To the rest of us you are a disgrace who won't go away. Just another former convicted felon who had his conviction erased for a technicality.

They sad part is this large number of troops is having an impact and few believe it. We are arming the sides in the civil war and people who were killing our troops last month. Is that bad not at all if it gets us out

gretske
"I am afraid if Bush took his advise and went to Iraq, the morally corrupt and intellectually dishonest mainstream media would probably find fault anyway."

morally corrupt and intellectually dishonest is exactly what you extreme conservatives are. For how many years did chant "stay the course" when it was not working? That was morally wrong you if you thought about it you would realise it.

"2008 could be a turning point, when far left special interest groups and their sycophants in the mainstream media become increasingly irrelevant."

Care to wager who will be in the dustbin of history after 2008? You have been exposed as incompetent and corrupt... extreme conservatism is finished the real Republicans will take back their party

Remember Hal
It's about Iraq,the media and the President. It's not about Ollie.

No matter what
No matter what General Petraeus reports in September, unless it is the surrender of all the insurgents, militias and Osama Bin Laden, the media and Democratic Leadership are going to preach that the Iraq Theater is a failure and the war on terror is lost or worse was never really needed in the first place.

With several national dailes calling for the release of convicted American Taliban and Al Qaeda members in jail, convicted by a jury trial, it cannot be long before we are back in the days of terrorism being just a crime committed by what some call freedom fighters. The Left and more and more each day the Democratic Leadership are talking like there is not war and the ONLY problem the world is Bush and the USA.

Why should the American Left support democracy anywhere when it certainly, contrary to what they say, not their perferred form of government? They prefer socialism or Soviet style communism, where they, the self proclaimed elite are in charge. Where a select committee of them tell the rest of us how to live.


Col North is a Simpleton
As usual if the news is not potrayed the way the neocon imperialists want it, they cry foul and blame "the mainstream media". The news that we are "making progress with the surge" is correct, what the Col chooses to ignore is that this progress is not sustainable or lasting without the the political accomodations between the factions in Iraq (which is not taking place). The US arming Sunni tribes for the shorterm gain will only cause additional instability in the long term, as when we are no longer a threat they turn those same weapons on the Shia (even the economist could see this comming). This war is the debacle that it is because of the criminal ineptitude and stupidity of this administration and those who support it. Pandoras box has been opened and no ammount of imperialist "spin" will close it again.

Good news or not
My concern has been and continues to be the loss of Basra. We should never have left the Brits in charge of it and we are going to have to take it back. It is the only port in Iraq and without it Iraq is nothing more than a land locked country with very little way to Import and Export. Backed by our huge Navy assets in the gulf a Marine Expeditionary Force should be launched as soon as it can be formed. The Iranian hordes will sweep in, find a lot of friendly faces and we have to be there to stop them. This war has much wider implications and hasn’t been completely about Iraq for quite some time but we have to have that port.

Hellernot
"Remember Hal
It's about Iraq,the media and the President. It's not about Ollie."

He mentioned his trips but I won't mention it again today unless someone else does


Typical
The leftist comments here are very typical. Ignore the message and shoot the messenger. All of you Ollie haters have never been, will never 1/10th the soldier or the man that he is. Your bashing is pointless.

Hellernot
"Good news or not
My concern has been and continues to be the loss of Basra. We should never have left the Brits in charge of it and we are going to have to take it back."

Actually we are now following the Brit strategy. We are arming the factions and militias and will let them fight it out. Remember way back when the Bush Regime was warned that going into Iraq would strengthen Iran?

Lolo
"The leftist comments here are very typical. Ignore the message and shoot the messenger. All of you Ollie haters have never been, will never 1/10th the soldier or the man that he is. Your bashing is pointless."

I guess you didn't see where I agreed with part of what he said? Hellernot see? And by the way I am not a leftist remember

Funky p
I posted the following yesterday on a different article, but it still applies. Sorry if it is a repeat for some. To the best of my knowlege, Iraq has never been a supplier of oil to the US. A stable ME, however, seems a good plan, and geographically, Iraq seems a strategic area.

Having said that...I repeat:
Tired of the No blood for OIL
Arguments.

There are probably many reasons we are in Iraq. I don't buy the folks that cry No Blood for Oil. Guess what? We in the USA use oil. A lot of it. Do we have energy independence? No. Why? Well, maybe because we have limited exploration, prevented drilling (ANWR for example) and prevented building new refineries for the last 35 years or so. Why do you think we have a "strategic Oil Reserve?" Is it not a responsibility of our President to defend our interests? Why the heck shouldn't we protect our supply of oil? You willing to do without it?

Without Oil we don't function. Heck, we hardly can stand it if the price per gallon goes up over $3.00! What would you all do if we had a shortage, or the price went up to, pick a number, $10 a gallon. What then?

Time to get off the high horse and face facts.

Not a leftist??
Sorry Hal, ROFLMAO

For those who dont know
Hal is a Viet Nam era veteran and while I may disagree with him--I honor his service and so shouuld you.

mrs Paddy
"Guess what? We in the USA use oil. A lot of it. Do we have energy independence? No. Why? Well, maybe because we have limited exploration, prevented drilling (ANWR for example) and prevented building new refineries for the last 35 years or so. Why do you think we have a "strategic Oil Reserve?" Is it not a responsibility of our President to defend our interests? Why the heck shouldn't we protect our supply of oil? You willing to do without it?"


Let me put on a war planners hat for a minute. The major weakness this country has is that it consumes over 20% of the world's annual oil production and are less than 5% of the world's population. That is a HUGE weakness and exposure. All those do not drill areas are there in a prolonged war or confrontation. Our failure to control energy comsumption is a MAJOR weakness and national exposure. Is self sufficuiency possible? Not without major lifestyle changes. ANWR at best contains 2 yrs supply of oil


The Surge
I've had no doubt that American forces, used aggressively, could and would defeat whatever elements of Al Queida or the militia's they were used against. What is a surprise, is how many commentators stress this, almost as if they themselves were not convinced that this would be the outcome.

Many who were skeptical of the surge were not skeptical of the success of the forces, but of it's purpose, which was to buy time for the Iraqi government to achieve political reconciliation. Petraeus, Gates and the rest have repeatedly stated that no amount of time and no amount of forces can force reconciliation unless the Iraqi's choose it. And, in this case, it means that the Shia religious parties and the Kurds, who control the government, must be willing to make the compromises necessary to include the Sunni's in a way that gives them a vested interest in the new government so that they will reject civil war.

Some of us, as a result, are simply holding our judgement. A key point, after all, is the distribution of the oil revenues. The simple formula is to collect it, and then redistribute it equally on a per capita basis. However, this hasn't happened because the Kurds and the Shia's in the south oppose such a formula. The Kurds want control over new discoveries and over Kirkutz, and the Shia's want control over the oil fields in the south. Neither shows any great interest in the Sunnis'. They also have shown no interest in disbanding their militia's and turning security over to a national government, nor in allowing some of the Baathists back into government and the military.

In another three or four months, the relative military success of our forces will be old news,and in 8 months, the initial forces sent for the surge will be due to come home.

Personally, I'm skeptical that anything earth shattering will happen with the Iraqi government in that period of time.


Hal
Don't dispute your statement we are too energy dependent,but in the meantime what is your plan? You going to undo the damage of 35 years of failure to drill, build refineries, explore, and search for alternative fuels overnight?

Get the Brits out
Actually the British have been in “redeployment” for a while now and will soon be ONLY at the airport. The chaos in Basra is a result of our allies abandoning a battlefield where they were in complete charge and in the process they abandon us. We can no longer count on them and must disregard their continued “redeployment” and take back Basra. It could be argued that this chaos in an otherwise quiet part of the country is a forebear of the chaos countrywide should we decide to begin our “redeployment”. It could also be argued that in many ways Basra is much more important than Baghdad itself.
Regardless of the situation around Iraq now or in the future we must maintain the port in our overall strategic interest even if we decide to let Iraq begin their genocide.

Wanting it both ways
While Ollie is correct in pointing out the positive effect of Sunni tribesmen in Anbar, Saladin and Diyala provinces turning against foreign jihadists(generically and falsely called Al Qaeda), falls into the trap of describing Iranian-backed terror cells in Sadr City.

Barely a year ago the Sunni insurgents Ollie now applauds were terrorists in his eyes.
The Mahdi Army is not seen as terrorists in the eyes of most Sadr City residents. In fact, the most volatile cells are breakaways from Al-Sdar's leadership. Sadr City residents have looked to the Mahdi Army as a security force against Iraqi Sunnis and Sunni foreign jihadists.
While reprisal atrocities by Mahdi cells against Sunnis are common, there has been no attempt by our side to actually meet with Al-Sadr in an attempt to bring his formidable military and political forces into the fold. Instead, they are given the basic "terrorist" tag and called the enemy.
Have we learned nothing? A year ago the Sunni insurgents were terrorists. Now they're allies. In order for longterm stability to have a chance in Iraq, a year from now the Shiite militias must also be brought into the fold, especially since their natural enemies are the real terrorists, the foreign jihadists(call them all Al Qaeda if you like).

One more point. TH columnists are continually decrying the media for not covering Iraq fairly. However, not one word from one columnist( I may be wrong) has even mentioned that Sam Brownback came on board with a soft partition of Iraq as a reasonable solution to long term stability in Iraq.

I would rather see a debate centered on solutions and reality as opposed to the constant whining about media coverage that either permeates or is the core subject of every TH Iraq column(Buchanan excepted).

mrs Paddy
"You going to undo the damage of 35 years of failure to drill, build refineries, explore, and search for alternative fuels overnight?"

Actually it makes sense to cut consumption as quick as possible. That is being done now by devaluing the dollar, destabilising the ME and increasing global uncertainty. See I said something good about the Bush regime LOL. Next short term fixes are increase gas mileage quickly and maintain product not just crude reserves. And pump what we have faster. But over time we must find a workaround and soon.

War without WMD found can be correct?
Anthony Thomas claims to be liberal like me! I also happen to be a conservative! Why? Because our liberal side- if we enjoy its advantage- is the part of us that creates new ideas to solve problems! Oh, to be sure, the conservative side is just as important because it is the part of us that sorts out our good from our poor ideas!

The media, the Congress and the masses of people in almost all nations had no problem sensing that WMD made a good reason for us to go into Iraq and almost everyone still believes that Saddam used WMD against his own people and Iran in its eight year war; but, they don't seem to understand that Saddam was the real WMD in Iraq! A jar of anthrax or a canister of Sarin gas (both easy to hide) is considered to be a WMD, like a nuclear armed missile, but they are all useless and harmless until put to use by an order from someone with the power to get it be used. Nice men like Saddam Hussein seem to have one or more character flaws that let them find reasons to use them!

I submit that most Americans understand the need to take out folks with such power when they have access to WMD and religious or other ideological convictions. Some even demand them to destroy innocents, if in the way, of their desire to murder those not accepting the leaders, who claim to be driven by dreams of proper use of their power.

If you want to avoid falling to Amejinedad and his forces, you have two choices: a) Use whatever power you have to get him out of power; or b) surrender to Islam and bow five times a day to Mecca to show allegiance and pay his tax to have a chance to avoid his need for ethnic cleansing that might accidentally murder you too!

Not a tough question for most women to help you answer, but some men seem to prefer surrender. I hope that you are not one of them.

keepontryon32@aol.com

Big Black Dog
"Why would anyone believe a guy who lied to the congress and the American people after selling weapons to Iran - the same weapons that may be now turned on our own troops? How is it that the same Warpublicans who slam Bill Clinton for not doing enough, are willing to plant their lips on the anus of a man who sold weapons to the first and most hostile of Islamic theocracies? And you morons wonder why you have NO credibility?"

I think everyone here knows how I feel about Ollie. But let's remember what was happening then. Iraq and Saddam for a second in time was on the verge of taking over Iran and then the whole ME. Then we aided both sides to keep it balance so neither could take all. At the time there were few options damn few. Hindsight is always 20/20 but at the time it looked like the best of bad options. My argument with Ollie is he violated his oath not necessarily what he did for Iran

Big Black Dog
Keep sipping that KoolAid.

Hal Donahue
Good Morning Hal,
I agree with you on several points (Thunder Rumbles in The Distance). However, America rolls on diesel, even more so than gasoline. You cannot increase mileage without decreasing weight, which leads to unsafe vehicles. We should drill & refine as much domestic oil as we can find, but be good stewards of the environment while we do it. I am sure cleaner drilling & pumping technology are available. Also, advances in Geology make finding oil reserves much more accurate than the hit & miss strategy of the past.

You must admit that there is an element of The Democratic Party/MSM that REFUSES to see/hear anything contradictory to their beliefs about Iraq/Energy Policy/Earmarks, etc. I believe in their right to dissent, but to flatly IGNORE facts contrary to their beliefs is dishonest at best.

Finally, I received an Email from a Liberal who posted regularly on TownHall (karennkc aka incognito aka kcincognito aka Not So Incognito) who reamed me out as a TownHall Conservative. She said mine was the only Email she could find, so she picked me to unload on. She is a prime example of the element I previous described.
Have A Great Day, Hal!

P.S. TownHallers, let me know if you want to read the Email I receieved from KareninKC

Georgetwin re the Email
Might be interesting reading...but will it pass the language barrier? LOL

Ruining the country
I am sick of the president and his administration, conservatives who populate this site and other enablers who pushed this war and continue to push it. You push it despite the fact that it has been a disaster for everyone involved. Iran is now a mess and no amount of BS, and it is BS, from the likes of Ollie North will make it otherwise. Electricity production is a pre-war levels, a large portion of the population is unemployed, health care and education is a mess, two million of the middle class who were the potential backbone of the country have fled. There is no sign of the national political reconciliation necessary to politically stabalize the country. While there is some dimunition of violence in areas where we have focused our strategy we have achieved it by arming the Sunni's.

Where is the success that you crazies tout??? You are delusional!!!

Big Black Dog
Don't you have a muzzle? All you do is bark, bark, bark. Why do you come here to post if you don't have anything reasoned to contribute?

Big Black Dog
You wrote about Ollie North:

"True - but we'll never be 1/10th the traitor, drug runner or war criminal he is either - i can live with that."

Those are serious accusations. Do you have any proof to back them up?

Hal Donahue
You lost all your credibility with me when you went after the Bush admin over the BRAC. Everyone needs to read your diatribe over Walter Reed Med Ctr. Which by the way has been around for almost 100 yrs not 30. You sir are a liar and a shill for the left. Do a lot of us vets a favor and stop pretending that you're acting in our interest when your only reason for doing anything is to bash a president that you don't like.

Georgetwin
I'd like to read her e-mail.
Send it to:
willibeaux@yahoo.com

Thank you


Ruining the country
Further more while we are focusing on the surge, Al Qaida is growing in strength in Pakistan. The Taliban in resurgent in Afghanistan. We have sigfnificantly strengthened Iran and pushed then toward development of nuclear weapons. When we support any party in the Middle Eastern elections, we only strengthen those hostile to us. In Lebanon the popular former President recently ran in a parliamentary election and lost because we supported him. We endorsed Fatah in the Palestinian elections and Hamas won. Our policy in Iraq has made it difficuly to do anything about Sudan because it will be perceived and anti-Muslim.

In general, our credibility and ability to do anything in the Mddle East is in shambles.

Anyone who talks about success in Iraq has to be nuts!!!

Oliver North
I had the distinct honor to serve with LTC.

I would follow him into hell.

What he speaks is the absolute truth.

Thank God for LTC North.

We may still have a USA because of him.

Anthony Thomas
I think you hit the nail on the head when you said "However to be candid, there is a sense of cynicism and hopelessness that also exist in people like myself."
You see, that's exactly the problem.
I am so tired of hearing cynisism and whining about losing and what the government should do "for me" that it makes me want to puke. No matter what the nation does, it's never good enough. No matter the economy, it's just not enough. If utopia is not staring you in the face, then the whole notion of trying to secure a peaceful world for our children is just a lost cause and we might as well just give up.
And this goes for my fellow conservatives as well. Stop pointing the finger across the aisle and let's figure out how we're going to work with together and keep this nation the greatest the world has ever seen. Otherwise, the consequences are the most frightening of all.

JPH
Same goes for you. The "H" must stand for hopelessness.

Big Black Dog
You know, I try to be civil here. I don't recall calling you names, but you are quick to be "creative" with mine. I think we had this discussion before, but you continue to find your own wit to be the best part of your argument. Sorry, I guess it is just your style...but, as far as I am concerned it diminishes the content of your point.

Ruining the country
In addition to the disaster our policy has created in Iraq and the Middle East, we are creating serious problems for ourselves here at home. We are spending money on this war like drunken sailors. And you conservatives claim to be fiscally conservative. Estimates are that the war will cost us in excess of one trillion dollars before it is over. Think about the problems that need to be addressed here that could be addressed here with that money. Our infrastructure across the country is deteriorating. We have to address the issue of health care. You conservatives are mad about the recent Schip bill because it spends 116 billion dollars on children. Yet you say nothing about the trillion dollars that are in effect wrecking havoc on Iraq.

That trillion dollars if invested in business research, development and innovation could help us in compete with a surging Asia. If we lose out economically to Asia over the coming years, historian will point out the stupidity of our spending money on a pointless war as a major contributing factor.

I am furious about the stupidity of this war and at you nut cases who continue to support it despite the overwhelming evidence that it is damaging everyone involved.

Big Black Dog
You wrote:
"To me these are all undisputed"

This sort of looks like it's your opinion about the Colonel which certainly is your right. However
I'm not thoroughly convinced that these accusations are true.
Thank you for sharing.

JPH
How exactly are you damaged? I'm guessing you have a good job, nice home, reliable transportation, personal computer. How are YOU being damaged? Just once, please, think of the consequences of not fighting to secure the freedoms that YOU enjoy. Fighting is not easy. It's not cheap and it's certainly not convenient. There are a lot of issues that need to be addressed, but all is not hopeless. We need to stop calling each other names, roll up our sleeves and figure out how we can win the war, have a better education system, make health care affordable, and a myriad of other things. All is not lost but when you just throw up your hands and blame everything on others, you might as well just crawl into a hole and die. Because now your life IS worthless.

JPH
The economy is booming by every indicator. We're starting to reap some of the 'benefits' of the creative financing that was instituted in the 90's when Bill Clinton was in office (housing market), but in spite of a devastating attack on 9/11 and a war we are still percolating along very well, thanks.

You would have us spend the money currently going to the war effort on socialized medicine, more handouts to illegal aliens, and further government control on energy in the name of Global Warming.

You, and others like you, would surrender our freedoms, subjugate our citizens, and tax us into oblivion by putting your faith in the socialist agenda espoused (primarily) by the Democrat party.

RetMSgt
You think I am hopeless but the policies you are supporting are doing serious damage to our country. What is your justification??

RetMSgt
Thanks for your posting. You said it better than I.

Anthony T
I know it's difficult. I'm the all time worse when it comes to bitching about traffic in the morning and afternoon. Then I think, I'm blessed to have a car and nice roads to drive on and a good job to go to that has me in the traffic in the morning. I have a nice home to go to in the afternoon. All this could be gone in the blink of an eye, especially if we lose this war. I don't even want to think about one dirty bomb going off in this country, much less 4 or 5 or 10 or 100.
But keep your head up and let's look across the aisle at each other and say, "Got any ideas?"

JPH
What "serious damage" to our country are you talking about?

JPH
I don't agree with every policy that has been put forward in this war. I don't agree with everything that comes out of our government. I think our government is way too big, tries to do way more than it was ever intended to do and should be revamped. However, I don't have a cynisim that has me believing that our blessings cannot be secured for future generations. This whole thing called life is much bigger than you and me and I for one am not through trying to make my neighbors life better than it is now. You do your part, I'll do mine and we can make a change in the world one person at a time. Okay?

Mrs Paddy
That's exactly what I want to know? It reminds me of the people that gripe about their "freedoms" being taken away. What freedoms?

RetMSgt & Mrs. Paddy
I am doing OK. It is the country amd it future I am concerned about.

Fighting in Iraq has nothing to do with my freedom except to limit it. I am not hopeless. But the current course of this administration is indeed doing a great deal of damage to the country in a variety of ways. If you continue to believe with Ollie that all is going well with our policy in the Middle East you are clueless.

The future of the country cannot be seen only in the present growth of GDP. We have a huge balance of payments problem and our debt in increasingly in the hands of others particularly China. China is wielding increasing clout around the world. They are buying up resources and driving up the price of oil for example. An increasing number of the pattens in the world are being granted to Asians. Many of Asia's best and brightest who came here and contributed to our growth and innovation in the past are staying home. Many Asian youth are now going to China for their education.

At current growth rates--8-10% per year--China's economy will rival ours by or before 2050. With this economic growth will come more political power. To suggest that all is well is to ignore considerable evidence that China will be a major economic and perhaps political rival of the US in the future. Yet we continue to bully the world as though we will always be the biggest guy on the block.

Blood For Oil?
Funky P writes "Is it not a responsibility of our President to defend our interests? Why the heck shouldn't we protect our supply of oil? You willing to do without it"?

Personally; Yes, I would be willing to do without Middle Eastern Oil. In the short term it would be tough. But in the long term it would force energy independence, improve national security, help our economy, clean the environment and may even force Middle Eastern countries to find an alternate economy which may lead to political stability.

Also, becasue we are dependednt on oil does not give us a right to it. It is not ours for the taking. Especially since we are not responsible users of oil. The US is 4% of the world population and use 25% of the world's oil. We waste it and take it for granted.

So you support Blood for oil so we can drive gas guzzling SUV's with Support our Troop stickers on the bumper. It says it all...



Mrs. Paddy
Out crediblity in the world is in tatters along with all of the problems in Iraq. We are spending a trillion dollars and you do not see damage being done to the country???

Big Black Dog
You wrote:

"Wili - it's called google - use it..."

Now you are pulling a Hal D on me. You make the accusations and then you want me to waste my time to prove them.
Sorry old chap! That dog ain't gonna hunt.

JPH
I agree that not everything is rosy in the ME. However, I don't think I'm clueless. I lived a couple of years in the ME. I'm a nay sayer for those who characterize them as "camel jockeys" and "backward" and "unable to embrace democracy." You need to be more specific in your assertion that "all is not going well" in Iraq.

I do not dispute your concerns re: China. I think NAFTA (signed by Clinton) was a bad thing for our country. I think the current Administration (and Congress)'s view on Immigration is beyond stupidity.

I don't view us as bullies, however. If we were bullies we would turn the ME into glass and steal all the oil. We don't do that sort of thing.

I still feel that in Strength comes Security. No matter how you feel about the wisdom of going into Iraq, the fact is we are there and we all need to get behind the war effort and support it. Militarily we can win (and have been when our hands are not tied). The war here at home is the biggest factor. Reid "The war is lost" is a traitor at worst, and at best a buffoon who is clueless.

Let's get it done. How do you think the US will be viewed if we continue to follow the "Vietnam" paradigm and bow to opinion and ignore the situation on the ground? Paper Tiger will be the nicest thing we'll be called if we withdraw and there is a bloodbath like happened when we withdrew from Vietnam.

The Surge and Democracy Confusion
Ollie is all confused. He equates a successful surge in Iraq with democracy in Iraq.

They are two completely different things. If the surge were to succeed and bring stability in Iraq - GREAT!, But That is not democracy. The political forces have to make it happen. We here from the military that the surge is working and showing some progress - no argument, but they also say, there is no political progress. And without political progress we cannot win.

In Iraq, the problem is not that the government went on vacation, but the Sunni walked out as well as others. The Political Infrastructure is collapsing.

Ollie and Townhallers are overly obssed with the surge and its success, but there is virtually no discussion of the political side to this.

Thanks
Anthony, thanks for your kind words.
And JPH, I'm not clueless I know that there are problems. I also have ideas. For instance, I think that all control of schools should be left to the individual states. I also think that we should not try to teach our kids adult skills before they are out of the 5th grade. Teaching German or Spanish to 2nd graders is a waste of money. The time spent on these should be spent on math, reading, writing and science.
As far as Iraq is concerned, I believe that the so-called surge is working and should have been the policy all along. We should have had overwhelming numbers of manpower and weapons on site from the very beginning and that Al-Sadr should have been bombed to hell when we had him holed up in a mosque. I'm willing to give this surge a chance and I also realize that not everything happens at our convenience. I once had a very wise CMSgt tell me that you can't have a romantic date in front of a microwave fireplace. :)
See, ideas man, ideas. You may not agree with anything I say but at least be open to listening and keep the derogatory statements out of the conversation.

stedes
By the way. Funky P didn't write that, I did. See my complete post at 9:47 a.m.

Easy to say you'd do without oil. While we're grinding to a halt here (kinda like everybody thought would happen when Y2K happened) because of oil shortages, how do you propose we make up for the 35 years we have failed to build new refineries (or Nuclear plants), failed to explore new oil field or drill ones we know about (Gulf, California coast, ANWR), or do the R&D to find viable alternative sources of energy?

I'm no expert, but I don't think the general population of the USA is willing to turn off the spiggot overnight.

And a stable ME is different than Taking the Oil. If we wanted to Take it...we most certainly could do so.

Mrs. Paddy
I do think that we should address energy issues and health care because we cannot afford not to. We need to reform our health care system because we cannot afford to continue with the system we have. We will find ourselves increasingly non-competitive in the world if we cannot bring our expenditure more in line with other developed countries (socialized systems).

And yes we do need to change our energy policy. We have for too long subsidized oil and gas interests and shortchanged alternatives. The largest gains in energy could come from conservation. We consume far more per capita than enyone else in the world. We must become more efficient users and we must develop alternative to oil because global demand will drive up oil prices well above where they are now. And yes, I do think we must address carbon emissions. That need not cost us a huge amount of money. By more conservation of energy and by using alternatives we could significantly reduce our carbon emissions.

But we are too preoccupied by a stupid pointless war where we are blowing huge amounts of money to do much about these issues.

Wow JPH
I've read some humdingers before but I think you are the first to have actually drunk the ENTIRE batch of Kool-Aid. Feeling a little anal retentive today are we?
I must admit it's nice to know there is someone out there that knows ALL the problems--but what do we do with all that anger?
I mean I'm ready to crown you King but I'm afraid you'll torch Georgia or something.

RetMSgt
Sorry about the comments. But you must admit that on this site anyone who questions our policy is referred to as tratorous, defeatist, socialist etc.
Would you at least consider the possibility that we have damaged the US in some of the ways that I has addressed above and not continue to blast anyone who differs as a defeatist. I too care about the future of the country. I just think that future in being jeapordized by the current policy.

Despite these charges hurled about I have yet to hear sommeone tell me how the surge is going to end what has, in my view, been a very damaging war. I agree that the surge has apparently quelled some of the violence. However, how does that lead to a stable government that will allow us to withdraw before we wre completely bankrupt and a world pariah. The political pieces of the puzzle are not here for that.

stedes
Everybody was complaining "how can democracy function in a civil war", then when the civil war seems to be receding, you say "relative clam does not equal democracy". Well I don't think anybody significant said that. A little while ago I posted the observation that Bush's goal posts are shifting: now it seems like the fallback position is "let's stabilize the country and let the political chips fall where they may".

The Iraqis could easily choose something other than representative US or Westminster democracy. The goal now seems to be to achieve enough calm for the people and/or their government to make their own choices.

steve
I meant relative calm not relative clam - I'm not discussing Iraqi shellfish. Just to be clear.

Denouncing the surge
There simple fact that a senator claimed that the surge being successful would not help the democrats, itself reveals all that is needed to understand the issue of “hate America; we’re losing the war”.

No amount of anything will satisfy those who oppose the action taken. You’re too stupid at this point to understand all the reasons for taking action, to begin with.

Could strategies have been different? Yes. However, that doesn’t negate the goal.

Hating President Bush is not a reason to ignore the inhumanity that was happening in Iraq, the threat that it posed to us and the need for action. The Democrats hated Bush since 2000 and never ended their rhetoric, the war was just one more reason.

What the Democrats failed to understand is the threat to the ENTIRE WORLD terrorism engenders.

Don’t mistake my support for the war for thinking all Republicans are grand. They are engaging in religious fundamentalism, which only stops short of killing people. If they had their way all children would be praying in school and abandoning science for creationism - hmmm, sounds a bit familiar when you hear about the madrasas in the middle east, doesn't it.

The joke most recently heard, “a Christian puts the mental in fundamentalism”.

Hellernot
I am angry at the current policy. But tell me how we address some of the issues. We are in a very difficult position. I too think that we have some responsibility to the Iraqi people but that must be balanced by some of the other concerns I discussed.

I just read a piece in the NYT this morning that rekindled my anger. It was about the plight of two million Iraqi refugees that we created. Read it and see for yourself.

Too much of mthe discussion here just accuses anyone who differs of malovent motives.

"The simple fact..."
not, "There simple fact"

apologies.

JPH
We need to address Social Security, Immigration and Energy independence (the last two because they directly affect our security). Health care (socialized) is a terrible idea, which you would realize if you did a little research into the subject. Tort reform would help. Less government intervention would help. Free markets would help.

Focussing on the money spent on the war and calling it stupid and pointless is pretty ridiculous, in my humble opinion.

Whats going on here?
Did the Kos magic kingdom shut down? Did your Mom leave you all by yourself again?
Lets see---first we have about a dozen hoping for world wide economic collapse and now we have some guy comparing Sunday School kids as the equivalent to teaching kids how to blow themselves up.
My goodness!

JPH
I submit a question to you that I have proposed on several posts in the recent past. No one has bothered to respond to it. What is your cut at it?

If the Iraq war is "lost" and we withdraw all of our troops, what do you think will be the end result of that? Additionally, how will letting the 'chips fall where they may' improve our security or reputation, and what do you think will happen to the ME at large, and Iraq in particular?

PeteR
"Everybody was complaining "how can democracy function in a civil war", then when the civil war seems to be receding, you say "relative clam does not equal democracy". Well I don't think anybody significant said that".

Yes - Ollie said that. At least that is how I interprested his Column. He starts off

"For three years, politicians and pundits have been challenging the president's policy of spreading democracy around the world. Can't be done, particularly in the Middle East, they tell us".

Then He says

"Despite evidence of progress on the ground in Iraq, the masters of the media intend to continue their barrage of defeatism, and the majority in Congress appear unwilling to desist in their attacks. The mainstream media all but ignored news releases from Iraqi and coalition commands on successes against both Iranian-backed terror cells in Baghdad's Sadr City and Al Qaeda's network in Northern Iraq, Salahuddin, Diyala and Anbar provinces".

I do not get the connection. A successful Surge does not equal democracy.

scooternyc
As a Christian I object to your characterizations. I believe I have an open mind on many matters, and don't dispute proven scientific data. In fact, I really like science! It seems that those who fear Christians have a warped view of those of us who are.

Where we get to close-mindedness is when any argument for morality, differing opinions (Intelligent design as a logical argument to the Darwin THEORY)and the like are dismissed or blocked in the name of secularism. Lately, Christian-bashing is acceptable, but we dare not say anything about Islam. In fact, we bow to their mandates on how to treat the Koran (our soldiers use gloves at GITMO) and allow them to hae prayer time in our public schools.

JPH
Well there's just WAY too much focus on the "surge" (Where in the world did they come up with THAT term and whatever happened to "reinforcement" like every other war in history) in Iraq and not near enough focus on the overall strategy and tactics of our military.
For instance what can you tell me about the North Korean ship laden with nuclear material we sunk with torpedoes last week off the coast of Iran? There was so much radiation that those in the crew that survived were sick from it.
OR do you realize that Basra has 10 times the importance of Baghdad.
You see we are on a "need to know" basis and frankly there is a lot of this stuff we don’t need to know.

Q&A
"I do not get the connection. A successful Surge does not equal democracy"

No, but a successful surge does allow security in which democracy can be moved forward.

It's the simple idea from Maslow, I would offer as reference: when a person has their basic needs met then they can further their evolution to higher realms of thinking/living.

If you're so busy just fending off the enemy how do you accomplish anything further.

SSGTRET
You are right. I was just feeling "pug"nacious today

mrspaddy
Let's start with this to reveal your understanding: what's the difference between HYPOTHESIS and THEORY?

What does it mean for something to be falsifiable?

These are basics of scienctific understanding.

You don't like the characterization because its roots are correct. The fundamental behavior of christians is just as dangerous as those of the jihad.

You can debate your moralality and based it on whatever book you wish, but influencing our society to the extent we discriminate others from a supernatural being and a text that only authenticates itself, is absurd and not worth pursuing.

You claim you love science, there is no way that a person who UNDERSTANDS science can possibly be religious or believe in a supernatural being without being delusional on some level.

Science is about reason, empirical evidence and outcomes - it has nothing to do with fantasy.

scooternyc
Your argument of either/or is weak. My Christian beliefs are not fantasy, they are a matter of faith (and I don't presume to tell you you must agree), nor do I think they preclude my ability to reason.

Where do you find your moral compass? Do you think, say, murder is wrong? Why?

Do you think theft is wrong? Why?

I believe that God gave me the ability to reason. He also gave me free will. My choice to follow Him doesn't hurt you. It is an individual choice. We live (fortunately) in a society that gives us a voice on how our community is run. If you don't agree with my world-view, I can accept that. But, don't tell me I am not allowed to vote for people that share my world-view...or to support laws that support my world-view. Last time I looked we lived in a Republic that gives me that voice. Don't be afraid of Christians. We would like to see the world join us, but we're not beating you over the head to do so.


RetMSgt
"You lost all your credibility with me when you went after the Bush admin over the BRAC. Everyone needs to read your diatribe over Walter Reed Med Ctr."

Please do and note that the Bush Regime has failed to comply with the BRAC law.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/hal-donahue/stealing-from-the-old-th_b_59439.html


"Which by the way has been around for almost 100 yrs not 30."

Not true the Hospital is the new building and I checked it with folks at Walter Reed.

"You sir are a liar and a shill for the left. Do a lot of us vets a favor and stop pretending that you're acting in our interest when your only reason for doing anything is to bash a president that you don't like."

This president is a disgrace and he and Carter will fight for years to hold their rightful place as worst president. Their is not one lie there not one

scooternyc
You are aware that there are many in the science community who are Christians? Your claim that one cannot be a scientist And a Christian is wrong. As far as I am concerned, scientific enquiries into the vast complexities of our natural world only serve to illuminate everyone on the magnificence of our Creator.

MSGT
How much we agree on, but I am reserved about the intentions of the Shia's towards the Sunni's, and towards Iran. I wish I wasn't, but I don't like the political drift.

Like you, I spent 4 years being kicked around because I was certain we needed more boots on the ground - and boy did the neocons scream at people like me and the ex generals who had the guts to say the same thing. From the day we backed off of Sadr after Najf, I was no happy camper. I felt then, and feel now, that that was the most wrong headed decision I could imagine. We opened the door to Al Queida, to the Baathists, and to the militias. And now we are reaping what we sowed. Gates said last week that they'd understimated the animosity of the Shia's to the Sunni's when they first considered the surge.

Maybe that's the core of my skepticism. How could anyone under-estimate that animosity if they'd had their eyes open for the last 4 years. Do over 4 million people flee their homes and either leave the country of move elsewhere because they love each other?

Ah well. We owe them security to the degree we can deliver it.

What I'd like to see is a little more political realty - much as I used to want more military reality.

A government of national unity indeed.

Why don't we recognize that the Shia's, having spent 80 years under various Sunni dictatorships, and the Kurds, who've spent a century since the fall of the Ottoman Empire looking for a home - aren't about to give anyone any power over their lives again other than their own.

And please Gates, no more such admissions. We've had enough of those.

Big Black Dog
"Reagan swore he'd never do business with Iran - and it was done to finance illegal weapons to the death squads in El Salvador (and as part of the hostage release deal) - not to mention, he lied about it and went around the congress's back."

This is not about Reagan

"This is NOT about hindsight, this is about a traiterous soldier taking the law into his own hands because of what HE felt was best for the nation - not to mention, selling weapons to a rogue Islamic government that had held American hostages is pretty disgusting - don't you think?"

Actually no I do not. I think Ollie was following orders as he saw them. Was that correct obviously in hindsight no.

Look Ollie disgraced himself and the military when he violated his oath as an officer. I will not call him a traitor nor will I question is decorations which he apparently earned honorably. He displayed valor on the battlefield and cowardice on the hill. This is not personal for me. When men in uniform are serving the most powerful men in the world, we must demand absolute honesty or we will at some point have the military controling the country

stedes
You could be right - Ollie does imply that. If the situation on the ground improves the admin might shift the goals posts again, and ask for more time to give democracy time to work, rather than simply escape the dreaded Iraqi bloodbath which would be expected if we leave in the middle of a civil war.

BBD
a typical non-Christian who thinks he knows more about Christ than any Christian.

Folks
Too many questions and comments above for me to answer all. Any special ones?

Hal Donahue
Thanks for making my point. You wrote not one thing here that doesn't point the finger at Bush. Your article made it seem like you were talking about the old Walter Reed. Not the Bethesda that was renamed Walter Reed. The old one was closed under the BRAC and moved to Bethesda. You may want to check on that too.

I've got one Hal
Will you stand with me and Israel when the time comes?
Yes, it's coming.
At some point they will stike Iran and we'll be one of the few friends they have left.

scooternyc
So let me get this straight. Christianity is based in love and compassion for your neighbor and framed in self-discipline, respect for authority and personal responsibility. And why is this bad? Your closed mindedness lends an air of ignorance to all your arguments. Could you at least admit that there is maybe, just maybe, the slightest, o so slightest possibility that you don't know everything about the universe and God really could exist? Thought not.

RetMSgt
"Thanks for making my point. You wrote not one thing here that doesn't point the finger at Bush."

Hmm Isn't he the decider? Isn't his administration responsible?

"Your article made it seem like you were talking about the old Walter Reed. Not the Bethesda that was renamed Walter Reed. The old one was closed under the BRAC and moved to Bethesda. You may want to check on that too."

I am talking about Walter Reed under BRAC the Walter Reed hospital is being moved along with "other" services. What is happening is the Bush Regime is not doing what is requires and rushing to cram services etc into unacceptable spaces of new construction. Oversight is needed and it should be bi partisian. C. E. Kelly is. Don't forget I am a patient at Walter Reed. Read the other article

Ante
How does anyone know if a donor is active duty or retired military? More lies people. And by the way, how about we draft you? Put you at the front and see how long it takes you to break down crying and get fragged.

Hellernot
"Will you stand with me and Israel when the time comes?
Yes, it's coming.
At some point they will stike Iran and we'll be one of the few friends they have left."

Not sure, no blank checks. I do not think they will strike Iran for a number of reasons the biggest being their military will get overwhelmed and they know it. Lebanon really was a huge black eye for them.

Hal
Hal Donahue writes: Friday, August, 10, 2007 2:11 PM
Folks
Too many questions and comments above for me to answer all. Any special ones?
==========
Do you really think any of us needs you to pontificate about anything and everything? You claim not to be a "lefty" but you post your bio on Huffingtonpost. MMMM. Just lost a lot of credibility there. You scatter your tidbits with a few lucid arguments to draw people out, and then either neglect to respond to questions to clarify your position, or use the old smoke and mirrors routine.

mrs Paddy
Do you really think any of us needs you to pontificate about anything and everything?

Not at all but I do believe it is common courtesy to try and respond. As you point ok many times I only have limited time on here.

"You claim not to be a "lefty" but you post your bio on Huffingtonpost. MMMM. Just lost a lot of credibility there."

Lefties like me almost as much as righties

"You scatter your tidbits with a few lucid arguments to draw people out, and then either neglect to respond to questions to clarify your position, or use the old smoke and mirrors routine. "

I disagree on the smoke and mirrors but the fail to respond is what I am trying to avoid.

Hal
From the Walter Reed website.
1) The merger of Walter Reed Army Medical Center and National Naval Medical Center by September 2011 into one tri-service military medical center located on the Bethesda campus. That facility will be called the Walter Reed National Military Medical Center, and it will be staffed by Air Force, Army, and Navy military personnel.
2) The merged medical center will be the core of an integrated military medicine system in the National Capital Area. What in 2005 was three medical centers, a small community hospital,and 19 clinics offering medical care to military beneficiaries in the NCA will become, with oversight of the OI, a single tri-service medical center, a large tri-service hospital in Northern Virginia, and 20 area clinics.



More for ya Hal
Integration Facts

An Office of Integration now oversees changes coming to military medicine in the
Washington, D.C. area.
Currently, Walter Reed and National Naval Bethesda are involved in joint staff meetings.
We are coordinating future budget decisions and discussing the merging of clinics and
departments.
One goal of these discussions is that specialty services become joint long before Walter Reed actually moves to Bethesda to merge with the hospital there. When Walter Reed does move to the Bethesda location in 2011, the two facilities will already be one integrated family.
Today you see Army doctors working at Bethesda, Navy doctors working at Walter Reed, and Air Force doctors working at both facilities.
The Uniformed Services University is part of the Integration, too. It is already located at the Betheda campus, and will manage medical education and research programs from there.
Future plans also call for an enlarged Dewitt Army Community Hospital at Fort Belvoir to serve the military community in Northen Virginia. Many Walter Reed specialty services will open clinics there. This larger hospital will be a training hospital working closely with the new Bethesda medical center. Staff at both facilities will be tri-service.
Funding for construction at Bethesda and Fort Belvoir has been approved. Final business plans have been submitted and are pending approval. When this happens, architectural plans can be finalized, and construction can begin.

So explain to me how all this isn't better for the troops Hal.

Even more for ya Hal
Do you know what Walter Reed you are a patient at? From a history of Walter Reed:
By Congressional legislation, construction of the Walter Reed General Hospital was authorized, and the Hospital admitted its first patients on May 1, 1909. Named in Major Walter Reed's honor, the medical center was founded on principles that would integrate patient care, teaching and research. World War I saw the hospital's capacity grow from 80 patient beds to 2,500 in a matter of months. Through World War II, Korea and Vietnam Wars, hundreds of thousands of soldiers were treated here. On September 26, 1977, the new main hospital building was dedicated by Major General Robert Bernstein, then Walter Reed's commander. The new hospital itself stands 125 feet tall, equal in height to a ten story building.

Through the years, the Walter Reed Medical Center has added tenant institutions and facilities to its roster: Walter Reed Institute of Research, Armed Forces Institute of Pathology, Army Physical Disability Agency, along with several smaller units. While many organizational changes have been made in recent years, there has been no interruption of the close relationship among all of these functions. Today, the Walter Reed Army Medical Center continues to serve the military community from the Washington, D.C. area, and around the world, admitting 16,000 patients a year.


RetMSgt
"2) The merged medical center will be the core of an integrated military medicine system in the National Capital Area. What in 2005 was three medical centers, a small community hospital,and 19 clinics offering medical care to military beneficiaries in the NCA will become, with oversight of the OI, ."

Will be not yet and that is where the problem is The "a single tri-service medical center, a large tri-service hospital in Northern Virginia, and 20 area clinics" this construction is being shortchanged in a MAJOR way with beds and clinics disappearing and the clinics etc being too small. DoD is screwing this up in a major way to save dollars.... I am not asking to kill it I am asking them to stop it in place and review the status to date and plans

RetMSgt
Bob Dole the week before last came on board saying it should not be closed

RetMSgt
Walter Reed Army Medical Center is the whole complex everything. If you are near by go visit. Did you read this one:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/hal-donahue/honor-tradition-courage_b_49565.html

RetMSgt
The quote is from a senior navy guy

Big Black Dog
After reading most of your comments here I am of the opinion that you are a member ofAl Qaeda or a VERY close buddy of OBL. I realize of course its just an opinion I am too lazy to try and substantiate it.

retMSgt
"So explain to me how all this isn't better for the troops Hal."

It isn't real that is how. If it were I would be pushing it. They are cutting, cutting and cutting but no actual consolidating etc. It is pure smoke.

This is one issue I know and I am learning more every day. The 200 plus beds I spoke about gone disappeared into the coordination vapor. No this is not all politics this is actual. Who is your senator

Hal
I also see that none of my comments ever make Huffington. Why is that Hal?
Did you not read all the facts that I gave you? Also, it's been my experience that when the clinics get smaller and the military gets away from these old, huge hospitals, the care gets much better and more personal. But maybe it's just that I'm not as cynical as you.

No wonder Ante
I bet your Mom has to pay people just to pal around with you.
Now show some respect and tell the Master Sargeant your sorry and go pick up your room.

RetMSgt
"I also see that none of my comments ever make Huffington. Why is that Hal?"

I have no idea why they do not. They asked me to post so I do.

"Did you not read all the facts that I gave you? Also, it's been my experience that when the clinics get smaller and the military gets away from these old, huge hospitals, the care gets much better and more personal. But maybe it's just that I'm not as cynical as you."

I am not cynical LOL you are often right about the personal bit but when it comes to large teaching and research hospitals like Waler Reed, Johns Hopkins, Sloan etc the drawbacks are overwhelmed by the gains.

Remember all I am asking for is a halt to determine they are doing what they should be - they are not. Drink the koolaid but know if you do this time you really are hurting the troops.




Folks
Sorry must run again. I will try but doubt I will be back.

RetMSgt, look ask your congressional critters to look into it. I do know what I am talking about let them tell you

Be well and enjoy

Knows all sees all
Hey Hagar, I think Big Black Dog is really a medium otherwise he couldn't be as omniscient as he thinks he is. After all he (maybe its a female dog?) seems to know what OBL and GW know. I am really impressed

Hal Donahue needs a name change
Since you insist upon being the mouthpiece for the enemy, spewing propaganda and doing everything possible to undermine this country’s resolve in a time of war, I take particular pleasure in bestowing upon you a new name: Hal Jazeera

Hal Jazeera
Though you have posited yourself as the voice of reason, a careful examination of your arguments expose you as a voice of treason.
Just as your namesake’s cynically seditious acts have poisoned the Middle East, it’s only fitting you should have similar names.

Good one
Boromir's Horn, new name Hal Jazeera, I love it!

SFASU7392
You're absolutely right and I don't know what it is about the guy that just gets my goat. BTW I have 2 Dem senators, does he really think that they will do anything?
Of course Hal is entitled to his opinion, but his incessant political opinion while being cloaked in compassion for vets is enough to make me scream. It's not just him, but numerous others who could really give a rat's behind what happens to us. It's funny but I never hear him or anybody else bring up the fact that those of us who are retired disabled have to finance our own disability payments by having our retired pay decreased and then repaid to us tax free by the VA. In my case it probably saves my about $30 per month in taxes. Not a lot, given 22 years, a shattered ankle, tinitus, and a torn rotator cuff. Do I want more? Not really, but there are retirees that are much worse off than me who deserve better.

Ante
I have a just one question. Do you hate Jews?

ollie's forgetfulness
North "forgets" that Maliki condemned the strategy of arming Sunni militas, predicting it would worsen the total insurgency anti-government attacks.

North "forgets" that since 2004 most Sunni and Shia have wanted US troops out of Iraq.

North "forgets" al Qaeda was only 10% of the insurgency and that the Sunni tribes have
pledged to keep fighting US forces and the
government after vanquishing alQaeda.

North "forgets" most Americans can't find Iraq on a map and are easily hoodwinked by imperialists like him --and that there are a
multitide of Bible Belt Armageddon-lusters
believing American policy must protect Israel until Jesus flies in to convert the Jews en masse
in a big fight against the AntiChrist.

Americans are dangerously deluded provincials whose Empire should be dismantled with the troops
being placed on the Mexican border where the real war and by contrast a just war is being fought.

Ante
We did our time and did it well. I dont recall seeing you in Phu Bai but maybe I missed you.
Even approaching 60 I would be honored to serve again.
Are you really Hitler in disguise?

OK Sugarfoot
So lets hear it. How would you protect us from people that have sworn to (and have) kill(ed) us? Or do you not believe them?

Ante
I would be curious to get your thoughts on this.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4094926727128068265

Get Out of that Sandy Cesspool
What the Arabs, the Muslims and whoever else, do in their own sandy cesspool is of no concern to me, but since every country consists only of a culture and a border, I want them out of the US now, and I want the US out of that sandy cesspool now.

If it hadn't sounded so funny I would have cried when one of the poo-bahs of Wash DC said that the Iraqis would greet us on the street with flowers. They have no idea or background in a government like democracy, so why did anyone expect they would like what we thought we were doing for them.

Can you name a portion, an item of culture anywhere in the world that would improve our country?

All immigration should be stopped, worldwide. If you were born there, you stay there. Except for one thing, Invitation. If a country asks you to come, you can, but you have two or three years to eliminate all signs of your previous culture, and completely adopt the culture of the country you went to, or out you go. Remember, a country has two things, and two things only — a border and a culture, if you violate either, out you go.

And that works either way, to or from the USA.






Ante
I'm not sure we agree for the same reasons. You are one scary libertarian.

False statement
“So let me get this straight. Christianity is based in love and compassion for your neighbor and framed in self-discipline, respect for authority and personal responsibility. And why is this bad?”

this statement is utterly false. The bible is replete with an inordinate amount of killing, raping, stoning and other such nonsense. It is impossible for you to understand personal responsibility and believe in the supernatural.

If the bible were your moral compass you would be stoning people for not following your ten commandments, but you don’t. Why? Because you know inherently that it’s stupid to do so.

It doesn’t mean there aren’t interesting fictional stories by which to teach a child the acts of kindness bestowed upon others, but it’s only one option, there are plenty of options and no religion corners the market on morality or being “the” religion.

defend the borders, the oceans, the sky
hagar writes: Friday, August, 10, 2007 4:05 PM
OK Sugarfoot
So lets hear it. How would you protect us from people that have sworn to (and have) kill(ed) us? Or do you not believe them?
============

We should have started many years ago, but first you deport the ones who are here already, then defend the borders, the oceans, the sky.

scooternyc
I didn't say that the Bible didn't have stories of stoning, rape and killing in it. I gave the basis of Christianity. I also left out sacrifice. Another lesson of the Bible, Old and New Testament.
So by all of your rhetoric, you answered my question by admitting that you know absolutely everything about the universe, the galaxies and all of life and it's utterly impossible beyond a shadow of a doubt that God might just exist. If that's your stance then maybe we should call you Scooter the Almighty and can only hope that one day we are as enlighted about EVERYTHING as you are.

To the contrary
"you answered my question by admitting that you know absolutely everything about the universe, the galaxies and all of life and it's utterly impossible beyond a shadow of a doubt that God might just exist."

Your religion has decided for itself and all those who engage in it, that the scientists of our generation and those who have come before it, know nothing of cosmology, biology, et.al. since it was all created in 6 days with one thrown in for rest to make it a clean 7.

According to creationists all of what we know in science is worthless as we should turn ourselves over to the supernatural idea that the universe was not only created in 6 days, but it has you, specifically in mind. That some deity is watching your every move, juding you on everyting. Sounds like hell to me! (CH - I admire your humor).

Just because you don't understand something in science, doesn't mean there's a god.

Just because science hasn't explained something doesn't mean there's a god.

You really look foolish when making such extraordinary claims.

Jim answer for Sugarfoot
Jim you said: "We should have started many years ago, but first you deport the ones who are here already, then defend the borders, the oceans, the sky."
I agree with this in part but I learned a long time ago that the best defense is a good offense. We can fight them here or we can fight them there, I like there better,

hagar (that's my daughter-in-law's name)
hagar writes: Friday, August, 10, 2007 5:24 PM
Jim answer for Sugarfoot

I agree with this in part but I learned a long time ago that the best defense is a good offense. We can fight them here or we can fight them there, I like there better,

==========

But I would hope that if we get rid of all of them here, and keep them out by using a good defense, then hopefully we don't have to fight them anywhere.

What makes a patriot?
Ante, You can argue and disagree all you want up until troops are committed. Once that happens a true patriot does everything they can to help them be victorious. Being a Viet Nam Vet I can tell you one thing. I have more respect for the Viet Cong than I have for the people back here that did everything they could to insure defeat. I see the same backstabbing SOB's today and half of them are in congress.
They dont deserve the freedoms they have.

SFASU7392
I enjoy your posts, I've read them for some time now. I certainly didn't know you were faculty - it gives me a glimmer of hope not all is lost in our educational system.

Don't sweat Ante, he's genetically predisposed to disagree with all conservative points of view. I wouldn't be surprised if he wanted his name to be Anti and just misspelled it.


scooternyc
I admit I cannot speak for all Christians. But it is a fact that I am a Christian. Your characterization of "creationists" and your other rants about Christians is simply not true for all of us.

As I pointed out earlier this afternoon, there are many scientists who are Christians. You expose your own ignorance of the Christian faith when you make blanket statements about what we do or do not believe in. You only expose your prejudice and lack of tolerance for what you obviously don't understand.

hagar
Thanks for your service to our nation. Just in case you didn't hear it when you got back from Vietnam "Welcome Home."

hagar
Thanks for your service. I agree with everything you said. I wonder how many of the people in positions of power today (media, political, educational) were, if not a member of, certainly sympathetic to the agenda of the 60's radical activist groups like the SDS / Weatherman.

mrs paddy
Either your bible is the unalterable word of god or it is not?

Now based on your bible, if you choose not believe in certain precepts then you're not a true christian.

If you choose to cherry pick your ideals because they "feel" good to you, then knock yourself out. But no person should take you seriously as a religious person if you can't even live by your bible's many dogmas.

Yes, I find religion contemptable. It's been the foundation for much suffering in our world and history and it's about time people took on the challenge of denouncing it publicly and demanding that those who make extraordinary claims for the existence of a deity to the extent that you want laws passed which endorse these beliefs, to prove it; then you have all your work cut out for you because you are now left with having to prove YOUR bible is THE bible.

lmao
Wait, wait. I'm sorry, but, am I hallucinating?

Is this article really "Doing the Right Thing", by Oliver North?

Oh, Townhall, that is RICH.

scooternyc
I addressed many of your points earlier. You don't know what you are speaking about and that is the truth. I am neither a theologian nor an expert on Christianity (and, neither are you, obviously).

The short answer is: Christianity is a personal relationship with God. Read the New Testament. In it there is a new covenant. Many of the books of the Bible are historical, allegorical, poetic, parables, songs...lots of stuff. You can cherry pick what you like from its pages, but that doesn't mean you have the faintest notion what makes a "true" Christian (to use your words).

I don't need your permission to be a Christian, and you can't say I am not one just because I might not fit your pre-conceived notions of what a "true Christian" is like. Sorry to disappoint.


RetMSgt & SFASU7392
Your posts Friday, August, 10, 2007 3:47 PM

Sorry to weigh in, but you are not alone in feeling irritable about Hal. I find him to be irritating because he has this condescending, superior tone and then claims he's "not a lefty" when he posts his bio at Huffingtonpost! Yep. Sure increases the credibility factor for me.

Anti
I usually don't waste my time, but out of curiosity, I went to the site you were so interested in everyone seeing. I should have known. Immediately you're hit with a picture of the Statue of Liberty, with a God awful, scary and maniacal look on her face. I didn't have to go any further to see the theme of this hate filled site.

That just sums up what you libtards are all about, you hate what America stands for.

Anti
And another thing, don't use phrases like "our boys in uniform". You hate the military and you think "our boys" are just a bunch of suckers, so stop the charade, you're not fooling anyone.

Anti
Well, at least you dropped your charade. See how easy it was? What a chump.

Ante
In the theatre we would call you a scenery chewer. Such a huge amount of angst and hatred you display is truly frightening. Go crawl back under your rock.

You're a fake and a fraud
“I addressed many of your points earlier. You don't know what you are speaking about and that is the truth. I am neither a theologian nor an expert on Christianity (and, neither are you, obviously).”

Oh, you see, I don’t need to be an expert because this is only your subjective truth. Your bible is subjective and not the only one, therefore if you’re right then all the rest are wrong.

Do you believe all parts of your bible? Yes or no?

Do you consider the bible the unalterable word of god, or not?

Personal relationship with god? so the voices in your head are no more unquestioning as the psychologically disturbed man on the street who is hearing god in his head and it told him to murder others; nor is the words of allah to the islam compelling him to blow himself up for the justice of all.

No, madam, you don’t know what you’re talking about.

You’re spewing this drivel from years of indoctrination and from which you probably don’t even know half the bible from which you supposedly live by.

You’re a fraud and a fake; you’re egotistical and self-centered; you act out of hope that you'll be given a reward rather than for reasons of doing good because it's good to do; you rely on others to be responsible for your choices in life and absolve you of the accountability; you’re afraid of dying and afraid of being alone and you live by a placebo because you haven’t grown up.

scooternyc
Feel better now? Another scenery chewer. Take a bow. Join Ante in your hatred...you only hurt yourself, and I'm sorry you think I'm a fake and a fraud, egotistical and self-centered. All based on your first-hand knowledge of me and my life. Well, good for you. Have a nice life.

As far as accountability...I'm responsible and accountable for my actions and I fully expect to have to answer to God for what I do or do not do in this life. In the end it is not about me and you, it is about me and God.

Again, sorry not to fit your definition of a Christian. I'm really not the awful threat you seem to imagine. jBTW: I've read the entire Bible, have you?

Thank you, Col. North
for your service...and for writing about this very important topic. Your advice to the president is what I, as an ordinary citizen, would suggest. It is time for another trip to let the troops know their commander-in-chief is there for them!

It must be very depressing to lay your life on the line 24/7 and read daily statements such as the Democrat presidential candidates are making. No matter what they say, they do NOT support the military! NOR DO THEY SUPPORT AMERICA IN THIS WAR ON TERROR!!!

What is hard for me to understand is why the liberal segment of our population doesn't realize they will be first in line for the head-chopping events that will occur on the village squares when the jihadists finally succeed - WITH, of course, the help of the liberals!

Scooter writes:
"You’re spewing this drivel from years of indoctrination and from which you probably don’t even know half the bible from which you supposedly live by."

"You’re a fraud and a fake; you’re egotistical and self-centered; you act out of hope that you'll be given a reward rather than for reasons of doing good because it's good to do; you rely on others to be responsible for your choices in life and absolve you of the accountability; you’re afraid of dying and afraid of being alone and you live by a placebo because you haven’t grown up."

Look in the mirror dude. You just described yourself and all the others who think like you do.

Ante
Is it really Ante or Mohammad?

CT
Thanks for weighing in. I Appreciate it.

I've read the entire Bible, have you
So what parts of the bible do you believe?

CT
Clearly you have nothing to contribute of any relevance so you utilized a plagiarism of sorts from one of my posts.

Thanks for your vacuous contribution.

scooternyc
I think it needs to be taken in context. I'm not qualified to argue theological things with you. I don't normally even engage in this kind of discussion. I only weighed in this time because you so obviously think negatively of Christians and I just couldn't let it pass. I don't know what made you feel as you do, but I know a lot of Christians who do no fit the description you espouse.

You never answered my questions;
Where do you get your moral compass from?
Do you think murder is wrong? Why?
Do you think theft is wrong? Why?

CT
Gee whiz, sorry you got fragged for stating an opinion. Guess I should have just let the anti-Christian stuff pass, but it just felt wrong to roll over about it. I appreciate your support, all the same.

mrs paddy
I'm happy to answer your questions after you answer mine: what parts of your bible do you believe in?

If you've read it all then certainly you can extol those parts of your bible you believe in.

Scooternyc
Sorry. Not playing your game. Impossible to answer your question in full, and besides, you would reject my beliefs anyhow. The most important thing Christians need to know and believe is John 3:16. Look it up.

As I said, the Bible is a collection of books containing history, geneology, parables, poems, songs, lots of stuff. It can't be lumped into an easy answer, as you seem to believe. I will tell you that it is an amazing thing. That it could have been written over as many years, by as many different people, and still have a unifying theme is pretty darn amazing...one might even think miraculous...Prophecy about Jesus is beyond coincidence.

I'm sorry if you cannot accept that there is a higher being that created this wonderful world we call earth and the cosmos or that he inspired the Bible (after all, if He could create the universe, why would anything as mundane as inspired writing be impossible?)

Someone once said to me that to try to define God is impossible. We want to make Him understandable, small enough to fit our puny ideas and what is possible. With God ALL things are possible. Someday, those of us who believe His words and trust in His Son hope to understand all that we now see only in part. It's called Faith. It's called Grace. It informs my life. I hope someday you will find that same Grace, faith and Peace.

SFASU7392
From what I briefly scanned Ante is a neo nazi militia guy. I know that means he is far right but at what point do you cut him off? Just wondering. Am I wrong about him?

mrs paddy
"I'm sorry if you cannot accept that there is a higher being"

No need to feel sorry as there is nothing which points to this claim of yours except your own statement, nothing more.

You don't need to play the game because you know all the inconsistencies within the bible, I don't need to spend postings on it.

I don't have any issue with anyone who wants to believe in a supernatural being; none at all.

However, I will not tolerate anyone of "faith" attempting to change our courts, theocratize our nation; dumb down our children with tales of irrational science such as intelligent design and creationism, and further discriminate others in our society simply because their "god" says it's wrong from anceint text.

Enjoy your god; enjoy your religion; but keep it at home, keep it in your church and stand up to those in your community that attempt to invoke their supernatural beliefs onto a larger nation which doesn't need to believe in such fables.

SFASU7392
"Hal is a fanatic, though he won't admit it. Remember in Churchill's words, "A fanatic is someone who will not change his mind or the subject."
As a historian, I find it laughable that Hal would cite his own writings in order to show what an expert he is. That just is not done. You might cite a previously written book as a source, but used in conjunction with other sources."

You have it wrong as usual. The cite was a plea for assistance. And some folks here actually provided it. You guys make a BIG deal about supporting the trips but are never there at roll call. you comments only strengthen my statement

as promised
I don't need "morals" as you define them; I act responsibly in my life by the choices I make and the accountability I am compelled by. Being responsible and accountable are all I need.

From this, I don’t tell others how to live their lives; I respect life around me, I don’t kill people, I don’t steal, I don’t mistreat people; I understand the awesome nature of life and science and embrace its mystery; I treat others with respect. I may disagree with others, but I don’t seek to control others; I don’t manipulate others at all – through fear or victimization; I continue to move myself away from an ego-centered life to one that is fun and without the dysfunctional adherence to outcomes. (in a nutshell, if you will).

Where did this come from? It came from observation. There is nothing I've observed from anyone of a religious nature that ever made me want to emulate him/her or draw my morals from.

RetMSgt
"You're absolutely right and I don't know what it is about the guy that just gets my goat. BTW I have 2 Dem senators, does he really think that they will do anything?"

Not sure where you live but they might if you are willing to check.


scooternyc
I could likewise say that there is nothing to your claim except that you say so. Does that make you right and me wrong?

I will continue to stand up for my God, my religion, and my community (of which I am a part). Keep your hatred and fear of Christians in your own home. You have no need to worry that we are bound to be a theocracy as you so obviously fear. As long as our Constitution lives, this will be a free country. And I, and others like me, will still have a voice. If you choose not to agree, so be it.

You were honest about your ability to not tolerate opinions and beliefs other than your own. Your statements belie your "I don't have any issues with anyone who wants to believe in a supernatural being."

You are bound to your rejection of any reasoned argument and truly you don't know what you are talking about.

You still never answered my questions, and I really did try to address yours.

RetMSgt
"Of course Hal is entitled to his opinion, but his incessant political opinion while being cloaked in compassion for vets is enough to make me scream. It's not just him, but numerous others who could really give a rat's behind what happens to us."

You know until the Kerry campaign your statement about giving a rats behind would have been correct. For the record, I do not wear cloaks. What you see is what you get. The Kerry campaign asked me to help out with vets, I honestly groaned. My only experience with vets was when I went to the American Legion and VFW and they refused service to me. So I figured fine you are on your own. Since less than 30% of vets belong to either organization, I realise that I am not alone. However, I meet a ton of WWII and Korean vets as well as Vietnam Vets and they were getting screwed. I took up their cause. My opinion is the only way for vets to gain influence is run for office,. So that is what I do -- get vets and friends of vets to run for office and I help vets any time I can. You may not like or agree with what I do but know it is me....


RetMSgt

"It's funny but I never hear him or anybody else bring up the fact that those of us who are retired disabled have to finance our own disability payments by having our retired pay decreased and then repaid to us tax free by the VA. In my case it probably saves my about $30 per month in taxes. Not a lot, given 22 years, a shattered ankle, tinitus, and a torn rotator cuff. Do I want more? Not really, but there are retirees that are much worse off than me who deserve better."

I agree but everyone I know supports fixing the problem. Not to make this political, know that it is the Bush regime stopping it with the help of R's. Why? too expensive... Let's be real honest. We both know during peacetime we are military are a drag on the economy and should be ignored. It doesn't matter which party but when war comes everyone bows before us and is our "friend". That is usually when we get back what we lost or never got in peacetime. What is haoppening now is that isn't happening and at the end of this war with the increased numbers etc we will be worse off than before.




SFASU7392
'Hal: My finances are stretched a little thin aiding members of my own family, but I do what I can locally. BTW, if the Dumbbuttcraps are doing so much for the troops and veterans, why are you asking for help?"

I don't need money I need a call to your congressional critters. The Democratis party is not veto proof and it is a bi partisian issue. Simple?

Consider him flagged

Scooternyc
Sorry, I didn't see your second post. You did make an attempt to answer my questions. Thanks for taking the time.

SFASU7392
"And Kerry screwed a bunch of them. No matter what you say, I will NEVER forgive him for Winter Soldier or his patently false testimony to Congress."

That is more than your right for those reasons. I have no complaint. I am just relating why I am now a "vet" guy and where I am coming from

Col.North
Hal,A little off topic here, I left a screed for you on the AC thread if you would like to read it. Was called away to tend to a family emergency.

SFASU7392
Wait until 08 LOL

We will look like a single party country after this election

Clyde
"Sorry about the tardy response. Had to run off on an emergency. The point I was unable to make was where was the outrage when Democrats were wanting cuts of the military? The peace dividend?

First of all I yelled a bit but not much. I was not that involved. Will I fight the D's if they try screwing the vets? I sure hope so. That said I do think in my on small way I have had a bit of influence steering the D's to support vets. So I try...

I hope the family emergency turned out well


SFASU7392
"Last comment: God I hope not. Single party rule, tends to run to dictatorships."

I agree so help bring the R's back to the middle

That said: Have I good nite. I am fading here too. Be well and enjoy tomorrow

RetMSgt
They posted your comment on Huffington. I thought you said they did not do that?

Folks
As much as I enjoy your company it is time to say good night.

Enjoy your weekend and be well

Col.North
Hal: Thanks for the reply. Yes,things are OK. Hope your weekend is good as well.

it's worth saying
In many ways the Christians, with their constant haranguing of rights and wanting to add god to everything, prayer in school, creationism, etc., are the ones who have prepared the way for islam to now invade our nation through our own Constitution.

The "flying imams" are just the tip of the iceberg.

The very doctrine that was set up to side step this potential problem is now the basis for undermining our society.

Islam believes in a god, so you can’t say they don’t have “god” in their lives, which is what all Christians want others to have.

Now you have to square with yourself the fact that their god says women are like chattel, behead infidels, and on and on and are afforded all the rights you've been screaming you want.

Their reasons are no less valid than your own.

Their religion just doesn’t happen to agree with yours.

Frankly, I don’t like the fact that I am now responsible for protecting myself from this eventual invasion because christians decided to hijack our government, control, manipulate and cajole our nation’s policies.

Christians now are accountable to everyone in this nation for creating the opening for islam to invade our country.

You think we're beyond a civil war. Think again. If islam grew to the numbers it hopes for, infiltrates society through votes, starts making policy and law, start teaching the qu’ran and all about allah’s creation of the earth, start brainwashing people about where their morals come from and why they’re right and everyone else is wrong. At what point do you think people are going to say ENOUGH.

All because they deserve the same freedoms of religion christians are afforded, and by slight of hand, endorsed.

The answer isn't denounce islam, the answer is, get your own house in order and control yourselves. The very game you play is the one that will be your demise.

And a great many of us didn't ask you to place us in this game.

scooternyc

scooternyc writes: "Frankly, I don’t like the fact that I am now responsible for protecting myself from this eventual invasion because christians decided to hijack our government, control, manipulate and cajole our nation’s policies."

Sorry you feel that Christians "hijacked our government". I, quite frankly, feel that humanists have hijacked America.

If you will recall, it was the Muslims that pledged death to the Great Satan (US). They have been saying this since 1979 at least. Their reasoning is that America shows itself to be immoral and corrupt before the world. It was the Muslims that cheered in the streets at the fall of the the Twin Towers. It has been Muslims that have attacked any and every thing not Muslim since about 625 AD.

So you can rail against Christians all you like. All the Christian will do is tell you what you should do. It is the Muslims that will take your head for not doing what they tell you to do. If you choose not to defend youself, it is no sweat off my back.

As far as the "control, manipulate and cajole our nation’s policies", it is the responsibility of the Government to do just that in time of national emergency (I do believe 9/11 would qualify as a national emergency). I have to ask you, based on the overwhelming vote by the Democrats in office at the time of the decision to go to war and given the information at hand at the time, would a sitting Democratic president have done the same thing that Bush did?

I believe he would have of necessity proceeded in exactly the same manner else he would not have survived the next election. Had he done so, would you have been more supportive of the War on Terror or would you be lambasting President Al Gore just you do Bush now? The only difference would be that you couldn't denigrate Christians while protesting could you?

Flag this!
I wouldnt flag any comments. People who have such incredible self loathing need an outlet and this may be the only one available. Anti is the extreme but he probably has never been to America.
Hal--I have a great deal of trouble understanding how you were turned away from the VFW unless you entered with a OBL T-shirt or something. A GREAT deal of trouble!
Scooter---You better PRAY that you're right.

Oli
They'll just find a complaint-issue for any better news that comes. Hmmm, maybe the economy, or maybe corporate coruption and cozy interests; but they'll think of one.

scooternyc
It is worth saying that our nation was founded on Judeo-Christian values. It is also worth saying that our Constitution states we have Freedom of Religion...not Freedom FROM Religion.

The Founders wanted us to be a nation (republic) of freedom and liberty. Most came from England where the monarch made her religion the "true" religion and all others were persecuted...often to death by burning at the stake and the like.

That there is no STATE Religion, doesn't negate the Christian values that this nation was founded upon. Of late, many Christians have felt that they are being persecuted by the (for lack of a better word) politically correct crowd. If our freedom of expression had not been attacked (via law suits to secularize Christmas, remove Crosses from public & PRIVATE land, etc) we wouldn't be squawking so hard about our rights being infringed.

Two things seem apparent to me. One, that Islam is not strictly a Religion...it is a political and ideological system as well. Therefore, by its very nature it cannot separate church and state because it is one and the same to a Muslim.

A second question for you...and I don't require an answer, it is just for your consideration ...you said that you developed your own morals through observation. How lucky do you feel that you were born in a Judeo-Christian based society? Furthermore, one that values individual liberty? Did our cultural values influence your ideas of what is right and wrong?

You seem to want to lay at the Christians' feet the notion that we left the door open to be overrun by the Islamists. You might want to look at our Constitution as it was written. We need to also look at the politically correct attitudes that refuse to take a stand for fear of hurting someone's feelings or somehow abrogating their "rights" real or imagined. Also our open borders. Also our (as a nation) lowering birth rates coupled with the high incidence of abortions.





Part 2 Scooternyc
How do you square the latest spate of accomodations we have been making to Islamists? Foot washing stations, class rooms in Schools to provide them a place for prayer (while Boy Scout troops are refused because they teach duty to "God and my Country"), cab drivers that refuse to serve anyone with a seeing-eye dog etc. seem to be more and more prominent. In the meantime, Christmas is called "Holiday" and Carols may not be "religious" etc. etc. It boggles the mind.

Christians have just as much at stake in the battle for our nation as anyone else that lives here. We do not choose dhimmitude...but we'll probably have a better shot at a life of dhimmitude than the secularists that espouse atheism, homosexsuality etc. etc. as those are even worse in the eyes of a Muslim, and worthy of death.

scooternyc
"...Frankly, I don’t like the fact that I am now responsible for protecting myself from this eventual invasion because christians decided to hijack our government, control, manipulate and cajole our nation’s policies."

Any school child studying American history can tell you this country was founded based on a belief in God...read the Declaration of Independence or our Constitution to see if the Lord was mentioned once or twice or thrice! And yet we can't mention God in schools or on the ball field or at high school graduations or sing Christmas carols...yet, as Mrs. Paddy mentioned above, we can sure provide foot baths and prayer rooms in schools and other public places for the believers in Islam.

Something is definitely wrong with this picture!

Political correctness will be the undoing of our society yet...with a lot of help from the secularists, liberals and ACLU, an organization that should remove American from its title!

Big Dogg writes:
Saturday, August, 11, 2007 10:44 AM

"...you fool...Only a moron...only a cowardly yellow-bellied fear mongering fool"

My My My...a little testy are we?

My suggestion: try using a dictionary! You might find you can state your ideas without calling others names!
Sign Up to Post Your CommentsSign Up to Post Your Comments
If you are already registered, click here to login. Otherwise, please take a few seconds to register with Townhall.com. Once you sign up, you’ll be able to post your comments immediately, use the action center, get podcasts, and more!
Note: Fields marked with a red asterisk (*) are required.
Salutation:
First Name:
*
Last Name:
*
Email:
*
Nickname:
*
Note: Nick name will be shown when you post comments.
Address 1:
*
Address 2:
City:
*
State:
*
Zip:
*
Phone:
      
Your daily must-read of conservative columns, cartoons and news. Coulter, Sowell, Krauthammer and more.
(Bi-Weekly) We highlight the best opportunities from our partners for surveys, action items and more.