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Friday, August 03, 2007
Oliver North :: Townhall.com Columnist
Seize the Moment
by Oliver North
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Was the Copenhagen Global Warming Summit Walk-Out a Win for the U.S.?


Washington, D.C. -- "We're in a generation-long battle against terrorism, against Al Qaeda-inspired terrorism, and this is a battle for which we can give no quarter. It's a battle that's got to be fought in military, diplomatic, intelligence, security, policing and ideological terms."

That's pretty strong stuff -- and because those remarks were made this week at Camp David, one might think they were uttered by President Bush. However, they were spoken by Britain's new prime minister, Gordon Brown, who the international media believe has reservations about the war in Iraq. But on the substance of the big question, it seems as if the U.S./British "special relationship" is still solid. "He gets it," President Bush said of the prime minister's stance on terrorism. Unfortunately, the same can't be said for the masters of the media.

For nearly two years, the potentates of the press have been slavishly following liberal dogma and telling us that the war in Iraq is all but lost, that the region will never embrace democracy and that young Americans serving there are dying needlessly. Even before the troop surge was underway, they were telling us that it wouldn't work. And since the final contingent of 28,500 additional troops arrived in theater two months ago, most members of the Fourth Estate have tried to persuade us that it has failed. Some of them may even believe it, but that doesn't make it true.

From my experience in eight trips to Iraq for FOX News Channel since March 2003, reality in Iraq is rarely found on the front pages of our newspapers or in the lead stories on most broadcast news programs. There are but two principal reasons for the paucity of reality in what we're seeing in print and on the air:

-- First, there is enormous antipathy in U.S. and European newsrooms toward George W. Bush and his administration. It's been that way since his first term, and it isn't going to go away. This predisposition -- and the media's congenital animus toward the American military -- colors reporting on everything the president does or says to include the war coverage. Opposition politicians have taken advantage of this bias and its effect on the polls to reap political advantage. They saw the efficacy of this stratagem in the past two congressional elections, and they intend to pursue it to capture the White House regardless of the damage done to our national security.

-- Second, despite the importance of the war to the American people, there are relatively few Western -- particularly American -- journalists outside Baghdad's "Green Zone." Much of what we see on television is videotape bought from Arab cameramen, many of whom spend most of their time with their favorite Al Qaeda terror cell or Shia militia unit. My media colleagues then cut this tape -- usually the aftermath of a heinous terror act -- stand on the balcony of an air-conditioned hotel room and tell us the "latest news" from the war. Lead stories rarely mention the courage and perseverance of American troops or their Iraqi counterparts, how many new schools, hospitals and police stations have been opened, or the clean water and sanitation that's now available to the people of Mesopotamia.

Both of these factors have significantly altered Americans' perceptions of what's happening on the ground in Iraq. But that doesn't change the fact that the surge strategy is working. The goals announced by Gen. Petraeus before he departed for Iraq are being achieved:

-- Add sufficient U.S. troops to give the Iraqi police and security forces time to recruit, train, arm and deploy;

-- Seize and hold Al Qaeda and militia strongholds. And assure the people in those areas that the security forces are there to stay and prevent both acts of terror and sectarian violence;

-- Begin the process of political reform so that the people of Iraq have an equitable distribution of the nation's oil wealth, and rule of law so that disputes can be resolved without resorting to bullets and IEDs.

Last December -- even before the additional troops arrived in Iraq -- I reported how the "Awakening" in violent Anbar province had created conditions where, for the first time, Sunni police, Shia soldiers and American troops were working together against Al Qaeda.

Now, even The New York Times has had to acknowledge that the surge strategy is working by running an Op-Ed this week by Michael O'Hanlon and Kenneth Pollack of the liberal Brookings Institution, in which they noted how strategic Anbar is now a model for the rest of the country. The authors noted that "many of the corrupt and sectarian Iraqi commanders who once infested the (Iraqi Army) have been removed," and that the delivery of basic services such as electricity and clean water are underway. They point to challenges ahead, but it's a step in the right direction.

This is the time for President Bush to seize the moment and go before the American people. He needs to go to Iraq, meet there with Gen. Petraeus and see for himself what magnificent young Americans are doing on the battlefield.

During World War II, Winston Churchill went to where his troops were fighting to encourage them and make a dramatic point. This is such a moment for President Bush. It may be his last chance to rally the American people to win a war we dare not lose.

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About The Author

Oliver North is the founder and honorary chairman of Freedom Alliance and author of The Assassins .

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Herein lies the problem Ollie
As you rhapsodize about bringing clean water to the region we read that Baghdad has no running at all, and delivery has been inconsistent. He talks about new hospitals while we read that the infant mortality rate has risen yearly since the invasion. He faults reporters for not reporting on reconstruction projects, when the real story is that security is so spotty that they are no longer safe even in the Emerald City.

In your plan for success you mention for the first time the political situation. One small paragraph stating that political reconcilliation must be achieved. Well, duh!!!

It's one dimensional cheerleading like this, repeated ad nauseum for nearly 5 years, that makes any reports of potential good news ring hollow.

dear liberal morons
The point Mr. North was making was: The lberal
anti AMERICANs would like to see us lose the war
for the simple reason, they want to bring President Bush down. That is appalling!!!
And you, who post your anti Bush venom, do so for the same damn reason.

You are no better than rabid dogs!
If we don't win, your type will be the cause & a
victim with the rest of us American Patriots.

The Boo Birds Are Out in Force!
Read Lynda Byrd's excellent column, "If the Democrats are upset, there must be good news." The chorus of those who are frantically clamoring to make sure that no hint of progress in Iraq goes unchallenged and is shouted down, proves her theory; that the Dems cannot win in '08 without a loss in Iraq.

Yes, there were lies that got us into the war. And, they started with Bill Clinton, Al Gore and others who called for "regime change" in Iraq and insisted, in the strongest terms, that we disarm Iraq. They just lacked the 'nads to actually do what had to be done.

Truth is, we need to reverse three decades of Islamic slide into a moral abyss and foster a more tolerant and peaceful Islam, not the fascist theocracy of a pan-Muslim caliphate.

Congrats, Ollie. The immediate and strong kick back against your assessment proves that there are those in this country who lack the intellectual honesty to accept progress in Iraq.

Semper Fi!

Ollie's anti-American column
If North thinks the best we can do is having a car bomb go off every few days (or more frequently), and if he thinks we can't do any better than these 4 1/2 years of lousy coaching strategy, then he has a very low opinion of American capability.

And if he thinks Americans will buy his distracting trickery about a "liberal media" when car bombs go off every few days, then he keeps a contempt for Americans.

Looks like FOX wasted its money on those eight trips.

They sent a guy who thinks it's a big success when car bombs go off every few days (or more), and worse, who thinks that when news outlets report the effects of the car bombs, they're doing it out of Bush-hatred.

They sent the very idea of a loser.

tanabear
"If Iraq is stable and democratic, Iran will have even more influence and Iraq will sponsor and support terrorist groups like Hezbollah."

You have no way of establishing the accuracy of that statement.
Iran's influence at the moment seems to be quite significant, with the porous borders between them and Iraq.

football fanatic
Time to stick to football, dude
More people die from crime in California than Americans die in Iraq.
Guess the US should pull out of California

Gabby
"We need to succeed in Iraq, but we have no right to win anything against a people who are not our enemy."

True, and if the US was fighting Iraqis, your point would matter. But the outside influence of Iran and the percentage of foreign fighters inside Iraq fighting US forces being so high pretty much shoots your words full of holes.

bryce2
The examples you give in your first paragraph pretty much sum it all up and show how correct Colonel North's piece is.
He should send you a thank you note.

tanabear ...
I am not keen on playing it fast and loose with other peoples childrens lives. Consequently, I am wondering where the voices were when conservatives were warning about foreign entanglements. Some folks were looking down the road and saw this coming in some fashion. Liberal people, didn't care for the socio-economic ideaology of said conservatives and gathered the wagons to protect their particular vested interests, and will do so again with the next annoiting of our next glorious leader.
We are all self serving rotters and I don't think that it matters much which side of any isle you sit on .... other people are paying the price for our collective whatchamacallit.
So, now that we are in this up to our ears ....
what to do? Our actions will affect the course of history and volumes have been written about all the possible outcomes accorded to each action.
Cut and run ....
Hold the course ....
Beat the living crap out of whom and where and return home ...
Withdraw to protect the oil fields and let them return to killing one another ...

Some where, someones kid is doing something other than what American kids ought to be doing so this is not some kind of disembodied spatial discussion.
Guys like Ollie were in the field, they aren't members of the Military-Political establishment at the Pentagon. He left young guys behind and possibly living young men in Communist camps. They live with ghosts that most of us can't even imagine .... park that in your thinking please.

WE ARE WINNING!
BECAUSE:
The fundamental issues fomenting violence and jihadists are being resolved daily.

Arabic youth are now working and feeling the entrepreneurial buzz sweeping the region. Ask any kid on the street about his goals and more than a few will tell you:
"I want to open a KFC franchise!"

They love America and feel so grateful that we've restored prosperity and order to their country.

Thanks Ollie for bringing us more of 'the real news'. I only listen to FOX because I know the truth I need to hear.

Craig C - Another Believer
Craig -

I have proposed pulling out of California in the past. See my blog - imsickofthecrap.blogspot.com. I proposed this in January. Time to cut our losses and retreat. No sense in being involved in a sectarian war where our folks might get hurt.

My gosh, I'm glad it's Friday
the brainless are out in force today. slinging personal remarks to Mr. North are way out of line. If you can't submit somewhat intelligent remarks, please don't bother. He is right on and in your hearts you know it. The media is so biased and I am sure MOST people know that.

In all the sniping
In all the sniping, the point of the article was lost.

There are "reporters" who sit on the hotel balcony and take what is fed to them by their stringers.

Witness Reuters with the dead children and bombed apartment photos ( clue: dead bay covered in dust had brand new pacifier)

Before you jump, that was Israel and Hamas.

The enemy knows exactly what to do
The strategy has changed. The enemy is well aware that the American people don’t have the collective fortitude to see this endeavor out. They are also well aware that the US military is definitely NOT something they want to mess with and with the latest surge they more or less have redeployed and gone into hiding.
They were handed a “win” on a silver platter when the incompetent and perhaps treasonous Congress told them that the Generals have to report and they know that now all they have to do is reek havoc the week before the reporting date. As far as they are concerned it’s the only time that matters.
While we are now getting reports of progress all that matters to the enemy is to kill as many Americans as possible so that the Congress can pummel the Generals and force us to summarily leave Iraq.
To many Americans the resulting blood bath is of no concern. Our allegiances, our friends, our promises are of no account to them and the only thing that matters is they can point at their President, regain power and continue to sit in their Mothers basement and make wisecracks at Town hall.

to imprecisepsychic
With all due respect, the handle fits your argument. I heard the head of the group auditing the Iraqi reconstruction. According to him the employment picture in Iraq has worsened over the last year. He puts the current figure at 60% for the population at large, higher for the youths you refer to in your post. He also states that corruption is so rampant that it is akin to a second insurgency. As of today residents of Baghdad still do not have water, in 130 degree heat. Electricity is still way below pre-war levels. The same with oil output. The Iraqi death toll is once again on the rise.

By what measure are the Iraqis enjoying peace and prosperity as a result of the invasion.

The propoganda argument is so shallow
The insurgents are not continuing their fight because of the criticism here in America. They are continuing the fight because this is their homeland and occupying troops are in their back yard. They will be in this for the long run whether we leave tomorrow or in 10 years.


Hellornot, you are right
The real tragedy of the situation, is that the USA may never be trusted to keep its word again. Should the Retreat-o-crats be successful in forcing us to turn tail in Iraq, the aftermath would be a bloodbath of historic proportions. This would be the third time in recent history that the Dems forced an early withdrawal, and left thousands or millions dead in the wake. Once in Vietnam, and after the first Gulf War, when hundreds of thousands of Kurds and Shi'ites were slaughtered by Saddam while we watched beyond the borders.

Yes, my Democratic friends, you dream of getting the USA out of Iraq, while ignoring the nightmare of the aftermath. And, why? Just to hand George W. Bush a crushing defeat so you can gain a domestic political edge for '08. Shame!

We should get out now because...
1. The administration fudged the facts for the obvious purpose of getting us into a war that we never should have entered. Therefore we should withdraw our troops from this war.

2. We are fighting people who are not the people who attacked us. Therefore we should discontinue our involvement in this war.

3. The war we are fighting is preemptive and never should have been started. Therefore we should stand down from this war at once.

4. The bloodshed has gone on for a long time and we are tired of hearing about it, plus we don't like the president, and all the news reports are bad news, so we should bring the troops home immediately.

Those are all true about the US involvement in the war -- in, respectively, World War I, World War II, the Korean War, and the Vietnam War.

In the first two, we didn't listen to such sniping, we let the troops do the job they were sent to do, under rules of engagement designed to produce victory; and we won.

In the third, we listened to some of this sniping, fought under rules of engagement designed to produce containment, and ended in a draw; as a consequence, we are still dealing with the situation.

In the fourth, the sniping became public policy, and we eventually sent our troops to fight under rules of engagement designed for retreat from the field (even though we were winning on the ground), and as a consequence, we lost.

Care for a repeat of numbers 3 or 4?

Anybody?

Anybody at all?


folks
"Opposition politicians have taken advantage of this bias and its effect on the polls to reap political advantage. They saw the efficacy of this stratagem in the past two congressional elections, and they intend to pursue it to capture the White House regardless of the damage done to our national security."

Ollie is a convicted felon who violated his oath as an officer and lied to Congress and got off on a legal technicality.

For him to talk about "regardless of the damage done to our national security" is absolute nonsense. General Petraeus repeatedly states that the war in Iraq cannot be won by political means. If Ollie is serious, and not just an expedient hack, he would ask the serious questions. Like why are we not expanding the forces? Why are not the troops being rested? Like how long can the military maintain this op tempo and still be an effective fighting force? Like how much will the cost be to rebuild the military? Ollie has said that we are winning more than the VP Cheney. What credibility does he have? I for one will believe General Petraeus.

Leviticus 1340
"In the first two, we didn't listen to such sniping, we let the troops do the job they were sent to do, under rules of engagement designed to produce victory; and we won."

They were all out declared wars and supported by the vast majority of our citizens. Every citizen was involved and the economies were nationalised to some extent.

"In the third, we listened to some of this sniping, fought under rules of engagement designed to produce containment, and ended in a draw; as a consequence, we are still dealing with the situation."

That war and the next were fought to contain a threat and defeat the Soviet Union. That mission was accomplished. You are mistaking battles for wars

"In the fourth, the sniping became public policy, and we eventually sent our troops to fight under rules of engagement designed for retreat from the field (even though we were winning on the ground), and as a consequence, we lost."

Read above and also note that the administration lied to the people about results and facts on the ground and the people lost total confidence in the government. TET won overwhelmingly by the military was a major defeat for the administration.

Please stop "making facts"

Hal - Don't misquote Petraeous, please
You are misquoting the good general. What he said was, "Any student of history knows there is no military solution to a problem like that in Iraq, to the insurgency of Iraq. Military action is necessary to help improve security … but it is not sufficient."

In other words, neither political or military action alone will solve the problem, it takes both. Now, if we abandon Iraq, as you success, what is left for us to try and make a political settlement? Nothing.

Without a military presence in Iraq, what would leverage we have to negotiate politically? Beg? Plead? Convince terrorists of the error of their ways? I doubt it. Withdrawal is their goal, and anyone who promotes the cause of withdrawal is assisting them in achieving their goal. Maybe they will appreciate the support and behave better in the future. Ha!


If it wasn't so sad and depressing
I could laugh at all the lefties and anti everything Bush and Iraq who have come out. I knew as I read the article that these negative responders would leap rapidly and shrilly as the first to write. The more we talk of success, the angrier they get. The more we talk of success the more they drag up the past (ie we shouldn't be in Iraq). What is really unbelievable was tananbars bravado that whether we win or lose means nothing to the long term welfare of this country. Talk about head in the sand. Or talk about denial. That is one for the textbooks.

LTC
I don’t know why you constantly berate the Colonels service. On top of that you do it every week. Our troops may or may not be worn out but you’re certainly wearing me down. Regardless of the political morass he found himself in---the plan itself was brilliant.
Remember it was supposed to be secret.

Frankly we shouldn’t know everything that’s going on in the military—we can’t vote on every clandestine operation. Don’t you remember, “Need to Know”?

For example the North Korean ship our submarines just sunk off the coast of Iran laden with nuclear material. With all the tensions in that part of the world— and with N. Korea quiet and Iran admitting nothing--why say anything?

Learning from British Mistakes in 1775

Starting with the Confederacy in 1861 and with the most success in Vietnam a century later, our enemies have learned from the mistakes of the British in 1775. The tactic is simple, if you permit an enemy to debate war policy on the homefront, the battle is lost military might notwithstanding.

The British lost the Revolution because of (a) their incompetence and (b) pressure at home to end the war. The stragegy of the Confederacy was only to survive the war until the North grew too tired to fight anymore - and they almost won. Had it not been for Sherman's march (and matches), they would have.

And in Vietnam, the Cong & NVA generals openly admit that they were just about done after Tet, which was a major LOSS to them. They were told that if they could only hold on for a few more months, the Americans (who were winning) would quit. This isn't the Americans saying this, this is the communists saying this.

And we are at the same point now in Iraq. If we ignore those who wish us to quit, we will win. And if we don't, we will loose and they will follow us home here and then we will have a shooting war on our own streets. Think the ACLU might get muted a bit in such circumstances?

Sure the deployments are long -- but in WW-II, the "road home went through Berlin" and the deployment was for the length of the war. I know one man who served on a ship in the Pacific and didn't even set foot ashore for more than a year! (Needless to say, he served a tour that was more than a year long...)

Sure recruitment for the reserves is down, but in part that is because many who otherwise would have gone into the reserves are going active duty instead. And we can thank CLINTON for the massive manpower cuts that are hurting us so badly now. We can thank CLINTON for making it impossible to fight without calling up the Guard. We can thank CLINTON for creating much of this mess as well, but I digress...

Hal - By the way
I appreciate your regard for truth, so let me help you with another slight problem in something you said. Ollie North was convicted on 3 of 16 felony counts, however they were overturned and dismissed because of errors made by the trial judge, not on "technicalities."

Legally, he is not a convicted felon, and I am sure you will want to correct this defamation of his character.

Why should we believe now?
You libs told us the surge wouldn't have any effect or that it would actually make things worse. You libs told us the war was already lost. Now you say even if we win, it won't matter. You libs love to point out how wrong the administration was about everything and continuously repeat the mantra "why should we believe them now". Appears the shoe is on the other foot. Perhaps the people should starting asking that question from the liberal leadership. Why should we believe them now!!!

bryce2
"The insurgents are not continuing their fight because of the criticism here in America. They are continuing the fight because this is their homeland and occupying troops are in their back yard. They will be in this for the long run whether we leave tomorrow or in 10 years."

You couldn't be more wrong, because your basic premise is simply incorrect. We are not "occupying troops". We have a army there at the request of a DULY ELECTED government imposing martial law against an insurgency that is led by, and to a significant degree, manned by NON-IRAQIS together with a number of Saddamites who were part of a regiem absolutely hated by most Iraqis.

The greatest fear of the average Iraqi is that we will leave too soon. They know very well we would like to leave. If it were the Iraqi people who wanted us out, they know all they would have to do is stop fighting!

The fact that most of the people being killed by the "insurgents" are innocent Iraqi civilians would tell you something if you were not blinded by your ideology.

PULL YOUR HEAD OUT AND LOOK AROUND PAL!!!




If The Surge isn't Working
Then WHY are the Moonbats recycling 2003 talking points?

It's Amazing
It's amazing how many people just dont get it. You either belive there is a global war against the West (read modern democracy's) by Islamic mad men or you dont. If you dont no amount of logic or dicussion is going to help you. If you just flat out hate George Bush no argument will surfice.
Bottom line we need to fight these people were ever they are. If we can establish a beach head in the middle east and fight them there, instead of downtown manhattan, we should do it.
If a reasonable government can be established in Iraq it will act as a buffer against these crazies. Not all Muslims want to kill everyone. They want a life much as your own.
Yes I said "if" there is no way to be absolutely sure of a future result in this reality. I suggest the left go waste there time with global warming so you can all feel good about something. Let the patriots cover your butts one more time. Dont spend anymore time with something you dont have the capacity to deal with.

Hal
"They were all out declared wars and supported by the vast majority of our citizens. Every citizen was involved and the economies were nationalised to some extent."

OK but if you listen to the Islamists, THIS IS a declared war also. They HAVE declared war on us. They have been fighting this war since the bombing of the Beirut Barracks. It just took us a long time to realize it and some people don't realize it yet!

The big difference is that we are not at war with a country. We are at war with a group of people diffused throught the world.

It is called "Assymetric Warfare". They are good at it! We had pretty damn well better learn how to fight it effectively.

gretske
"I appreciate your regard for truth, so let me help you with another slight problem in something you said. Ollie North was convicted on 3 of 16 felony counts, however they were overturned and dismissed because of errors made by the trial judge, not on "technicalities."

Errors made by the judge are technicalities. The substance of the charge he lied to Congress was not changed. He is a "convicted felon" he was convicted and he "got off" meaning had the conviction thrown out on a technicality bu the way the ACLU helped Ollie.

"Legally, he is not a convicted felon, and I am sure you will want to correct this defamation of his character."

Ollie defamed himself and the entire military when he violated his oath and lied to Congress. If he stood up and said he wouldn't talk or any number of things he would not have disgraced his uniform.

wally
"The big difference is that we are not at war with a country. We are at war with a group of people diffused throught the world."

The big deal is that we ARE NOT AT WAR. The big deal is that only our military is at war with no help in sight from us good citizens and little attention paid

Hal
"Ollie defamed himself and the entire military when he violated his oath and lied to Congress"

And yet you joined John Kerry's campaign when he did the same?

Pirate
"The British lost the Revolution because of (a) their incompetence and (b) pressure at home to end the war. The stragegy of the Confederacy was only to survive the war until the North grew too tired to fight anymore - and they almost won. Had it not been for Sherman's march (and matches), they would have."

NONSENSE. You forget that we would not have won against the British without the French intervention. You make it way to simple but Iknow why LOL


Pirate
"And in Vietnam, the Cong & NVA generals openly admit that they were just about done after Tet, which was a major LOSS to them. They were told that if they could only hold on for a few more months, the Americans (who were winning) would quit. This isn't the Americans saying this, this is the communists saying this."

Ahhh again you don't tell the whole truth. The administrations lied for years and Kissenger even admits they carried on the war longer than nessary for political reasons. TET was a decisive military victory but a major political disaster because the administration's lies were exposed and the people lost faith in their governemnt. Now that part is exactly what is happening right now hopefully without the same results.

"...they will follow us home here and then we will have a shooting war on our own streets. Think the ACLU might get muted a bit in such circumstances?"

They are here already we have not been attacked because we are doing everything they want

Pirate
"Sure the deployments are long -- but in WW-II, the "road home went through Berlin" and the deployment was for the length of the war. I know one man who served on a ship in the Pacific and didn't even set foot ashore for more than a year! (Needless to say, he served a tour that was more than a year long...)"

Everyone was involved not just the military we citizens are told to shop

"...we can thank CLINTON for the massive manpower cuts that are hurting us so badly now. We can thank CLINTON for making it impossible to fight without calling up the Guard. We can thank CLINTON for creating much of this mess as well, but I digress..."

Actually Clinton only carried on the Reagan/Bush cuts. Actually Reagan's administration tied calling the reserve forces to going to war. YOU ARE SO WRONG where do you find this disinformation??? And in any case you didn't notice Clinton's military conquered two countries Afghanistan and Iraq in less than 18 months? You didn't notice Bush has not tried to rebuild the Military????? Oh I know you were out shopping....

You don't understand the law, sir.
You are wrong about Col. North. He is not a convicted felon. It is true, that he was convicted of a felony, three actually, but because the judge violated immunity laws, his convictions were reversed, and his convictions vacated.

He is no longer a felon in the eyes of the law, or in the eyes of anyone who is being honest.

We Are Not At War?
How many of us don't have a family member or close friend friend of the family in uniform doing a tour in either Iraq or Afghanistan? How many of us haven't had to take our shoes off, empty our pockets, and submit to a search before getting on an airplane? How many of us have not been searched or screened before entering a government building? How many of us have not been reminded to watch for unattended bags on the subway or bus? How many of us don't do a double-take when we see someone in public wearing traditional middle-eastern garb? How many of us don't feel a twinge when we hear what sounds like a conversation in a public place in what might be a middle-eastern language? How many of us knew someone in one of the Twin Towers, or the Pentagon, or on one of the planes? How many of us get a little twitchy when public transportation bogs down or traffic comes to a standstill wondering if the next suicide bomber isn't going to take advantage of this opportunity? Why is it that every time something like a bridge falls or a plane goes down or malfunctions the second line of the report states that it was not an act of terrorism?

Sound like war conditions to me.

apoplectic
"Ollie defamed himself and the entire military when he violated his oath and lied to Congress"

And yet you joined John Kerry's campaign when he did the same?"

John Kerry was no longer a serving officer. He resigned and spoke out. Anyone is entitled to do that and he was not convicted of lieing to Congress Ollie was. Ollie was a serving military officer serving in the White House at the highest levels. A HUGE difference even you must agree. Ollie served bravely on the field of battle but he displayed cowardice on the hill of Congress.

Hal
You said: "TET was a decisive military victory but a major political disaster because the administration's lies were exposed and the people lost faith in their governemnt"

Well, that isn't exactly correct. TET was indeed a military victory but a lot of people were killed. It was pretty much a "last ditch" effort by the VC that had every reason to be a failure.

What saved it for the VC was the news media in the US (big surprise huh?)and anti-war activists (like John Kerry) in the US who painted it as a defeat. Most people in the US at the time thought it to be a big loss FOR US! and that Viet Nam just wasn't worth it. It was only after we pulled out that the word spread that we actually had the VC "on the ropes".

Wonder

Hal Donohue
How do you figure that about Kerry? since he met with the Viet Cong in France in uniform! furthermore Ollie did not lie but he did make the congress look really, really, stupid!

Hal Donohue
P.S. Kerry did lie to congress with his stupid ghengis Khan comments.

gretske
"He is no longer a felon in the eyes of the law, or in the eyes of anyone who is being honest."

I agree. That is exactly what is being said in a sarcastic way when I type: Ollie is a convicted felon who got off on a technicality. Both to my mind are factual. But I do give you the point and will now say: "...was a convicted felon who got off on a technicality." Thank you

Lolo
"furthermore Ollie did not lie but he did make the congress look really, really, stupid!"

Ask Ollie I think he now admits he did...

Hal Donohue
Baloney!

Hal
The fact that Kerry resigned prior to his testimony doesn't change the fact that he "defamed himself and the entire military when he violated his oath and lied to Congress". Unless of course you are referring to his military oath rather than the oath to tell the truth. In that case he only defamed himself and the entire military when he lied to Congress. A distinction without a difference really.

Is it possible?
To have some discourse on the topic instead of it's author?
And--is it possible to quit doing the same thing to this man every single week?
Surely it has to get boring!

Yes he lied
AND he had good reason to lie! Ollie was not treated fairly at all. The Dems just wanted to get him because of Iran Contra (which actually was a darn good idea at the time). The Dems hated it because the Contras were anti-communists. They opposed the Sandanistas who were buddies of the damn Dems.

Other well known liars Clinton, Clinton, Clinton, Clinton, Clinton (every time he opens his mouth!) and Kerry.

Craig C
You're a hoot! You took the words right out of my mouth. Football fanatic should stick to football, he obviously doesn't have the intellect for anything else.

wally
Look I will keep it as simple as I can and then perhaps we can drop this and do as Hellernot suggests. Almost every republic, democracy etc has fallen not to foreign enemies but to their own military. The military is necessary and yet dangerous they control the means of violence. It is imperative that the military not become embroiled in politics and if it happens the military officer's first allegiance has to be to the constitution. Whoever said there are two things you should never see being made sausage and laws is correct. Was it “fair”? Probably not but that is not the question the question is what happens when an active military officer under ANY circumstances starts lying to a branch of government like the president or congress? There is the danger and it is real.

Clear and present danger?
He was outranked by what 800 Generals?
Rats
I'm not going to do this.

hal donahuey
Hal, i'll make this as plain as i can.

You are a damn LIAR & GUILTY of defamation!!!!!!!!1

Hal Donahue
As ever, count me the Loyal Opposition!

hal donahue
!You are a damn liar & guilty of defamation!

pandm
LMAO Ollie I heard you the first time

Georgetwin
As ever? I think once some where we agreed on something LOL. How are you? Well I hope

Hi Ollie!
I heard there were "literally hundreds" at your sean hannity concerts last week... the one that donated a whopping $4 of every $65-$250 ticket to the "Freedom Alliance."

You must be very proud!

bryce2

I assume the 2 is your mind level
The liberal media are fed the BLOOD & GUTS stories from the enemy. And, it gives the enemy
an incentitive to do more head whacken(like 4yr olds).
The LIBERAL media are partly responsible for several of
our military deaths through this "news".
They owe someone an apology!!


Hal - Military is well aware of duty
Hal, I assume, from what you have said, that you have never been in the military. The oath, that every military person serving in any branch of the service - active or reserves, is for loyalty to the Constitution of the United States. You can see the Army oaths here --> http://www.army.mil/cmh-pg/faq/oaths.htm.

This is reinforced frequently, and no officer or enlisted person should have any questions about where their loyalties lie. This is one of the reasons why our republic is the oldest and longest duration democracy in history.

God bless America!


gretske
"Hal, I assume, from what you have said, that you have never been in the military....This is reinforced frequently, and no officer or enlisted person should have any questions about where their loyalties lie. This is one of the reasons why our republic is the oldest and longest duration democracy in history. "

First, I am retired military. Second what you say is exactly my point and why what Ollie did was so horrendous.


Hal Donahue
You agreed with me!? Well, even a broken clock is right twice a day!

Georgetwin
I am certain it was all a mistake and we both must have been wrong not just you as usual LOL

So Hal, what's your point?
First, I sincerely thank you for your service.

So, now that we have established that you don't like Ollie, and your reasons for your disdain, how about discussing the point of his article?

Do you think we can just walk away from Iraq? Do you see no consequences for doing that? As retired military, you must realize that there is some implication for losing another war, so why do you want to see us lose this one?


Gee Big Dogg
Too bad your Democratic hero, FDR, didn't have the brains or guts, to listen to Churchill. Maybe there would not have been a WWII at all.

Reagan had little to do with 9/11. The real culprits were:

Jimmy Carter - who set the Shah up for a fall, and enabled the Islamic Revolution of Khomeini. He was totally feckless in the hostage situation that they rewarded him with.

George HW Bush - Should not have left Saddam in power. Big boo-boo. Could have avoided the Iraq War.

Bill Clinton - Absorbed attack after escalating attack with no response, emboldening the Islamofacists even more. Then, he helped them further by dismantling the intelligence apparatus and downsizing the military. Remember "peace dividends?"

That's where the blame lies for 9/11. Both Dems and Repubs. When one party, or both, plays politics with war, bad things happen. The biggest mistake we could make right now is to pull another FDR and ignore the wolf at our door, again.

gretske
"Do you think we can just walk away from Iraq? Do you see no consequences for doing that? As retired military, you must realize that there is some implication for losing another war, so why do you want to see us lose this one?"

No, and few if any Democrats want that either. No one wants to abandon Iraq like we did Afghanistan after the Russian defeat. We must stay engaged, militarily if necessary, but we must let the Iraqis decide their fates. What we are actually doing is arming the tribes preparing them for a US pull back. That is very close to the Biden program. Remember, we lost in battlegrounds of the cold war like Korea and Vietnam but we did win the cold war with all our allies. The Iraq War has been totally mismanaged our military is streched to near breaking, it is time to reevaluate and reposition. The Bush strategy seems to be do all he can until he gets out of office and he can say it wasn't my fault.

Big Dogg
"but with weapons sold to Iran and bin Laden armed and trained to fight the Soviets, Reagan set the stage for 9/11."

Another democrat lie. We never trained nor armed bin laden to fight the soviets. We trained and armed the afghan mujahadeen, not the arab jihadists.

apoplectic
"Another democrat lie. We never trained nor armed bin laden to fight the soviets. We trained and armed the afghan mujahadeen, not the arab jihadists."

Actually a lot of our surrogates were what did become arab jihadists but that was only because we did abandon Afghanistan and Pakistan and lost nearly all interest in them or aid to them. That was the crucial error. It started with reagan but was continued and allowed to fester right up to 9/11

Hal
Some became islamic jihadists (as I said, they weren't arab). The fact remains, we did not train or arm the arab jihadists.

Hal
I never try to assume what someone else is thinking, or what their motivations might be. It is irrelevant anyway. You have to judge them by what they do, or say they will do if elected.

Let's see what some leading Dems have said; (and I am paraphrasing.)

Harry Reid: The war is lost, we need to pull out.

Bill Richardson: I would not leave tomorrow, I would leave this afternoon.

Nancy Pelosi: Immediate withdrawal is the only moral thing to do.

John Kerry & Teddy Kennedy: Pull back to Kuwait, now.

John Murtha: Pull back to Singapore, now. (I like Singapore, too!)

Hillary: If George Bush doesn't end this war before I take office, I will my first day in office.

Barack Osama: Pulling out will be my first act as President.

John Edwards: Would also pull out, first thing, after he gets a haircut. (OK, that was catty!)

Dennis Kuchinch: You know!

Tell me, Hal, what Democrat is *not* calling for us to pull out immediately, except maybe Joe Biden. This week at least. He may change his mind next week.

Seize the Saudi Arms!
"Unfortunately, today the Bush administration is behaving counterintuitively. It pursues its alliance with Saudi Arabia with vigor while eschewing and downgrading its alliance with Israel. The administration's hostility toward Israel is not limited to its intention to arm the Saudis with weapons capable of destroying Israel's strategic assets in the Negev. It is also actively pressuring Israel not to defend itself against Iran and its proxies."
-- Caroline Glick, The Jerusalem Post

On my blog, Wahaudi, I track the Saudi-sponsored expansion of militant, extremist Wahhabi Islam. In just under four months, I've collected over 450 stories from across the globe that document Saudi Arabia's responsibility for Islamic terrorism. Only a fool would ignore or deny the terrible truth.

http://wahaudi.blogspot.com

pandm
As I have stated in the past, smart people do not demean, insult, degrade their opponents, they present their points with intelligence and reason.

To your post. It is not the enemy feeding the media stories about the lack of clean drinking water in Baghdad. Nor the unraveling of the Al Maliki coalition. Nor the failure of said gov't to meet any of the most important benchmarks. Nor the 60% unemployment rate. Nor the rising number of Iraqi casualties. These are the facts on the ground. They are also the true measure of success.

gretske
"You have to judge them by what they do, or say they will do if elected."

You also have to judge them in context. Like your Reed quote. He did correct himself at the very same press conference by adding using only military means. That is almost exactly how Petraus feels. The other quotes also are cherry picked with the exception of Edwards I think. Murtha's is another examp;e of misspeak and you know it he wants them in the area and let the Iraqis decide. Everyone of the politicians have laid out their positions and none call for a scramble out of there. Changing your mind, plans and tactics based on experience is intelligence and continuing to do the same thing over and over and still expecting a different result is really a sign of severe mental illness.

Hal
"Murtha's is another examp;e of misspeak and you know it he wants them in the area and let the Iraqis decide"

The Iraqis already have decided. They are asking us to stay. That statement makes no sense. We will pull out and let them decide what? That the Americans are not to be trusted as they've proven once again?

Hal
Please, let's keep this otherwise thoughtful discussion on a high plane. You can disagree without accusing someone of mental illness.

Reed did not correct himself at the same press conference. In fact, he repeated it. It was the next day, when his PR stiffs, tried to backtrack. I have seen Murtha on 60 Minutes and Meet the Press, talk about pulling out many times.And, if you think I cherry picked the comments, you must have missed the Democratic debates. Do you have a TV set?

In between melting snowmen, there have been positions expressed about Iraq. What I posted for candidates is what they have said, not once, but in each debate. Didn't the Democrat controlled House pass a measure that would require us to start withdrawing in 120 days, REGARDLESS of what is happening? I am not sure how rational it is to decide a course regardless of conditions.

But, again, you have still not addressed what Col. North wrote about, the aftermath of a US loss in Iraq.

I am trying very hard to understand what Dems think will happen if we withdraw. You know? I am starting to wonder if they really mean it. You know, sorta like Nixon and his "secret plan" for Vietnam. Maybe they know a sudden withdrawal is not really an option and they are just pandering? Nah, they would not do that. Would they?

apoplectic
I must run and this deserves a lot of discussion at many levels. Perhaps we can have this discussion another day? But we have talked enough but you know where I am coming from

bryce2
I'll agree to the first if you will.

We were talking about "NEWS"(bombings) being given to "OUR" media - so that it can be shown
as a real bad IMAGE, and it is done to bash Bush
and bring him DOWN.
Otherwise they could show some of the good things
happening. There are some you know!!

We don't really know that much about the water & jobs.

SFASU7392
"Don't forget Hal is Dumbbuttcrap activist and mouthpiece. He will NOT stray from the DailyKOS< DU, DNC, Smirking Chimp, etc. talking points."

Oh I do stray and everything I write here is my own thought. Good night

pandm
With the exception of once referring to one of the more vexing liberal posters as infantile, I have never once questioned the intelligence, sincerity, or patriotism of anyone on this site.

To your point about the media, no doubt anti-American elements are supplying the media with images of spectacular attacks. But it is not the insurgents who are supplying the stories I referred to such as lack of political progress, a 60% unemployment rate, higher amongst the young, lack of water, lack of electricity, lack of security.

Those are the real story here. No matter how many insurgents we kill, if these absolutely central issues of governance and infrastructure.

SFASU7392
Well so be it but know that I am a military and veterans advocate before I am anything else.

gretske
"I am trying very hard to understand what Dems think will happen if we withdraw. You know? I am starting to wonder if they really mean it. You know, sorta like Nixon and his "secret plan" for Vietnam. Maybe they know a sudden withdrawal is not really an option and they are just pandering? Nah, they would not do that. Would they?"

Actually they would not but look back this guy has said trust me for eight years and still today 30% of the people believe him so who knows.... Withdraw? Who knows if we handle it correctly the death toll will crash quickly

Hal
There is only one reason that the situation in Iraq has not yet been settled and that is because the media and the Democtats (like Murtha, Reed, Pulosi et al)have been encouraging the the insurgency almost from the beginning of the martial law phase of this operation. When they say things like "we can't win", "it was a mistake in the first place" "we have already lost" "we should pull out now" etc. etc. etc. When the insurgents hear things like that and see how easily they can manipulate our MSM, what are they supposed to think?

I can just hear their leaders saying something like:

"Don't be discouraged, Allah is on our side, just a little longer, and the Americans will be gone. The corrupt weaklings in the United States can't stand the sight of blood. They have no staying power. If it is Allah's will that you die, you have 72 virgins waiting for you. American television stations are on our side, the Democrats are on our side. WE WILL WIN!"

I know a lot of anti war people mean well, but giving aid and comfort to the enemy is defined as "sedition" and however well meaning it may be, it gets our guys killed. They deserve better!

Hal
I want your reaction to the link I provided. It has nothing to do with left/right or other wise. It has to do with reality. It always has.

wally
"There is only one reason that the situation in Iraq has not yet been settled and that is because the media and the Democtats (like Murtha, Reed, Pulosi et al)have been encouraging the the insurgency almost from the beginning of the martial law phase of this operation."

I continue to shake my head at how the values of the Republican Party have been trashed by extreme conservatism. Admitting error and changing course is seen as cowardly while throwing temper tantrums and nothing else is seen "strong". Accept responsibility is gone. Shame is gone.

No Wally the reason Iraq has not been settled is simple incompetence. The refusal to impose order. The refusal to deal with national leaders, the tendancy to rely on only military means all doomed Iraq to chaos and the troops to abuse. That is what this regime ios doing top the troops abusing them

Hellernot
The tales the dead and others can tell.... Possible yes but who knows... If true then Bush is a fool he had hard proof

Folks
Have a great weekend. I am off! Be well and enjoy

Wally
Yesterday Newt Gingrich said that Bush was engaged in a "phony war" and that "There is no evidence that we are winning...".

So tell me, does Gingrich qualify as a seditionist?

For the argument
that Iraq was no threat to us: Terrorists recruit and train in almost all Arab countries. Where do they get their funding and weapons from? From the countries they occupy of course. If groups of American terrorists were operating in this country in the same way foreign terrorists have been, our country's forces would hunt them down and eliminate them. However, terrorists in Arab countries get a green light. Now if those foreign govts would rein in these people, maybe we wouldn't have to do it for them.

Hal
"No Wally the reason Iraq has not been settled is simple incompetence. The refusal to impose order. The refusal to deal with national leaders, the tendancy to rely on only military means all doomed Iraq to chaos and the troops to abuse."

No, I won't buy that argument at all. Three years ago we had AQ on the ropes (according to none other than Zarquai himself, things were going very badly for them) it was the critics who breathed new life into the insurgency.

Of course there have been mistakes, as there have been in every war. If we had taken the same approach in WWII as the cut and run crowd is advocating today, we would have pulled our troops when Wake Island fell or maybe the Phillipeans.

We lost more men in training exercises in WWII than we have lost in the past five years in Iraq, but FDR was commander in chief, neither congress nor the Republicans nor the media tried to undercut him, even when things were quite bleak. We stood behind our president!

I don't know if you are old enough to remember WWII, I am and I remember the patriotic songs that were constantly on the radio. I remember the movies that were really recruiting films. Anyone who talked like Murtha or Reed or some of the posters on TH, would have been in serious danger of either prison or lynching.

John Edwards is right about one thing "there are two Americas" and I for one, am ashamed of one of them.

Charlatan
This Iran contra liar, who got his Get Out Of Jail Free card after lying to Congress, has been discredited by any thinking American. Only the partisan Fox News people feel he is wonderful, and have resurrected this hack's career by calling him a war correspondent (hey, these folks did the same with the ever-lauded Giraldo Rivera, the king of daytime sleazeball TV).

It sickens me to see this creep call for the death or mutilation of another American soldier on behalf of the folly of Mr. Cheney's war to make money for Halliburton.

Mary C.

One more thing Hal
The newe from Iraq is that things have taken a VERY dramatic turn with the surge. I think we have had our "battle of Midway".

BTW, the Zogby poll just out puts the confidence rating of president Bush's handling of the was up to 24% and congrese's rating DOWN TO 3%!!!!

Mary, Mary, Mary
You're WAY too easy. I bet you bought in to that whole WMD thing--didnt you? You see everything you've been told is wrong and now as Wally just wrote you and your friends are down to 3%!! Didnt you used to have a majority? What happened?
Hal--I was trying to make a bigger point and I think you mostly got it. We have no idea (you, me and the press and the Congress for that matter)all of the actions our military is taking in this war on terror.
Having spent some time in M.I. I can assure you that it hasnt been all about Iraq for quite some time. All of these mind numbing attempts to define "victory" are a waste of time. "Victory" is just this----Keep us safe!

Wally
You are exactly right. We have lost our way. The supremacy of political parties and personal political agendas over what's best for the country is disgusting. And, it is not just me, apparently. The latest Zogby poll shows that the Democrat controlled Congress is currently at 3%, far behind the president's 24% rating.

I believe this is saying that the people are unhappy with what is happening, and blaming the president overall. But, they are beyond dissatisfied with Congress for fighting him. If the Democrats would quit trying to thwart the President and get behind him, the ratings for both would rise.

Without the backing of the MSM spin machine, we might see some very dramatic changes in the attitudes of the Dems. But, as it stands right now, 2008 could be a very bad year for incumbents, a majority of whom are Democrats, MSM or not.

bryce2
Well, without the exact quote, in context, its hard to comment on Newt but I wouldn't make an exception just because he's a Republican.

Its not force thats changing things.
It is not the surge that is having the effect but side deals with the Sunni. We are appeasing the Saudi's with arms for example. The Sunni militias are being armed and funded to turn against Al Qieda and to cool their heals for the time being so we look good. These are just the kind of tactics North likes to see.

Unfortunately this is a deal that can only turn against us in the future. We are again betraying the Kurds and now we are betraying the Iraqi government. Iran will make considerable hay of this move.

I believe this administration sees regime change in Iran as its redemption so maybe all of this is to push their buttons. There is allot of time left to mess up things in Iran before the election. Thats the scary part of this.

Modernone
"It is not the surge that is having the effect but side deals with the Sunni. We are appeasing"

You really don't know that. It is pure conjecture as is the rest of your post.

Imagine 25,000 Dead & Air WAR

Imagine 25,000 Americans Dead and an Air war & Dirtybombs with rapecamps thrown in...If that was the Iraq reality and someone described the grind we have now we think "Wow, that would be great."

Maybe this war will turn out well and we'll all see that--of coure--it took time to figure out what the heck the reality was and how to conduct this war correctly.

Perhaps, Baghdad hosts the 2014 Miss Universe Contest in the George W Bush Mem National Stadium.
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