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Friday, July 21, 2006
Oliver North :: Townhall.com Columnist
Self defense
by Oliver North
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WASHINGTON, D.C. -- The most recent battles in the global war on terror -- on the northern and southern borders of Israel -- have provoked politicians and pundits to make some very strange comments:

"As a sovereign nation, Israel has every right to defend itself from terrorist activities." -- President George W. Bush.

"I fully support Israel's right to defend itself." -- Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton, D-N.Y.

"Israel must defend itself, and it had the right to do so." -- French Interior Minister Nicolas Sarkozy.

On their face, each of these statements appear supportive of Israeli military action in the aftermath of terrorist attacks across Israel's borders by Hamas in the south and Hezbollah in the north. Unfortunately, these expressions of "approval" miss the point -- and invite a debate that is irrelevant. Every sovereign state, by any definition, has the "inherent right of self defense." Even raising the issue concedes that there may be a question about Israel's "right to exist" -- the principal argument made by the Jewish nation's opponents ever since it came into being in May 16, 1948.

Worse, nearly all of these preambles are followed by judgments about the nature of the Israeli response to attacks across internationally recognized borders perpetrated by groups nearly universally accepted at terrorist organizations:

Bush concluded his "self defense" comments with the rather strange admonition: "Our message to Israel is to defend itself but to be careful about the consequences."

Paris, apparently chagrined that Israel would have the temerity to hold a war that competes with coverage of the Tour de France, was of two minds about the conflict. French Prime Minister Dominique de Villepin insisted on an "immediate cease-fire," while Sarkozy urged, "as friends of Israel, we must advise it to maintain level-headedness and restraint."

The "cease-fire" theme was quickly adopted by Kofi Annan at the United Nations and within the European Union. Javier Solana, the globe-trotting, promise-them-anything EU foreign-policy representative, rushed to Jerusalem to have his photo taken urging that the Israelis "stop combat operations immediately to prevent a humanitarian disaster in Lebanon."

As expected, the so-called mainstream media jumped on the "bash-Israel-now" bandwagon. Photos and videotape of Lebanese killed and wounded dominate the coverage -- rather than explanations about Israel's attempts to break Hezbollah supply lines through Syria. A New York Times headline challenged: "With Israeli Use of Force, Debate Over Proportion." In the same edition, the "Newspaper of Record" included an "Interactive Feature" titled "A Question of Proportion" and invited reader input as to whether the Israeli Defense Forces had gone "too far."

Now, the Euro-elites and many in the U.S. media -- the very ones most critical of American military operations in Afghanistan and Iraq -- are urging that the United States intervene to "force" the Israelis to cease their efforts to eliminate Hamas and Hezbollah as threats. Critics of U.S. policy in Washington, New York and Paris are calling on Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice to commence a round of "shuttle diplomacy" to "stop the killing."

Absent from all this is any sense of reality. Here are a few perspectives on the current conflict you won't get from the so-called mainstream media:

-- Israel is fighting for survival against a regime that has sworn to wipe the Jewish state "off the map" -- the Islamic Republic of Iran. While racing to build nuclear weapons, the Iranians are supplying money, rockets, missiles, weapons, training and technology to their Hezbollah proxies.

-- Since the 1980s -- when I was dispatched to Beirut, Lebanon, and Tehran, Iran, to seek the release of American hostages held in Lebanon -- the U.S. government has known for certain that Hezbollah is a wholly-owned subsidiary of the Iranian Intelligence Service -- VEVAK -- and that the organization has killed hundreds of Americans.

-- There is no way that any U.S. Secretary of State should ever sit down at a table to discuss anything with Sheikh Hassan Nasrallah, the head of Hezbollah, or Mohammed Deif, the leader of Hamas, who was wounded in an air strike this week. Thus, "shuttle diplomacy" is worthless.

The best way we can help end the current Mid-East conflict isn't to "pressure Israel," but to help break Hezbollah -- an entity that cannot exist without direction and support from Tehran. The key to Hezbollah is Tehran -- and the key to Tehran is -- strangely enough -- Pyongyang.

Tehran was stunned by last week's UN Security Council Resolution condemning North Korea's missile launches. Rather than trying to compel Israel to cease its military action against Hezbollah, we should instead pressure our western "allies" into a similarly strong-worded, enforceable resolution aimed at Tehran. We should start by seizing all Iranian assets currently "frozen" in the United States, distributing the proceeds of their sale to the victims of Iranian terror -- and urging the Europeans to follow suit.

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About The Author

Oliver North is the founder and honorary chairman of Freedom Alliance and author of The Assassins .

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Right On, Ollie!
Not only that, but we should make it clear we will continue to work with Israel to destroy not only Hezbollah and Hamas, but the Assad regime and its war making capability, the Iranian regime and its war making capability, and, as long as we're at it, North Korea and its war making capability. And if China and Russia don't like it, why we don't need to be their biggest customers.

Like many people, I feel the time for appeasement is long past. If Condi goes to the area, I hope she tells Syria (and Iran) the President Bush meant exactly what he said to Tony Blair, and if they don't like it, they will suffer the consequences. End of story.

Not that they'll pay any attention to Condi (beyond playing nice to her face). To these people, she's a woman, and women exist for the sole purpose of bearing sons. Too bad they feel that way, because it means they will lose.

But then, they hate life so much, death would be a mercy to them.

For more, check my blog at http://phoenix-rising.townhall.com/Default.aspx

Blast them
I say we stand back and provide Israel the tools and allow them to finish the job.

And let the EU fall where it may.

You betchya.. I agree 100%..
What a waste, Condi won't be able to do anything as a woman, she is not in anyway going to influence the leaders of the middle east! If anything its an insult to them.. This is war, its going to be and we all know it. Israel and the Jewish people are God's chosen ones. I have faith in knowing the God of Israel, Abraham, Issac, Jacob will not sit idle while his people suffer. Continue to pray for Isreal and peace, not a false peace but true peace that only God can give. I want to see Isreal kick some butt!

Nuclear Responsibility
The truth for a change,
The only way to prevent every pissant wannabe nation from holding the world subject to nuclear terrorism is to stomp on them as soon as it is known that such aspirations exist. Anything short of that is a waste of time and effort. Appeasement is appeasement and it is high time everyone realizes that every attempt to compromise with Islamic terrorist groups has come to nothing, and is only appeasement cloaked in wishful thinking. Stomp on these groups hard and fast it is all they understand. Enough wishful thinking. Thank you Col. North for being the man you are.

Anti-Semitism
Colonel North forgets to add the virulent strain of anti-semitism still rampant in Europe and to some extent in the US Left. Just as the US is held to a higher standard so is Israel. The Left hates US power and superiority - it conflicts with their guilt complex - and Europe hates the US and Israel because of their anti-semitism (Israel) and inferiority complex (the US). The US and Israel should ignore Europe, the UN, the Left and the Media and destroy Hezbollah and Hamas. They started it let Israel finish it once and for all so in a year or three Hamas and Hezbollah do not rise again. The only action the terrorists, including Iran and Syria, understand is the exercise of power.

My only worry ...
... is that Hezbollah has access to the Syrian & Iraqie) WMD's from the Bakah (sp) Valley. Would that the Col. continue this column in part II before next Friday and address this growing concern. I know Col. North only deals in facts, but I am pretty sure he has, through his contacts, enough information to address this subject with authority.

Israel Was a Mistake
We knew it at the time. Now all these years later we are the only nation that stubbornly hangs to the notion that the establishment of Israel fulfilled God's prophesies. We put European Jews in the middle of Arabs and said "accept them". The Arabs never have and my best guess is, they never will. How much are we going to spend in blood and treasure fighting for this mistake. The European Jews should have been sent back to the country's they came from. God and only God should have made the decision to establish Israel. You cannot force love or acceptance--you cannot legislate love or acceptance--after more than 50 years, we do not understand that concept.

Warrior's errors
"We" didn't "put European Jews in the middle of Arabs." Jews had been living in the Middle East, and specifically in Israel, since time immemorial. All "we" did was recognize the nation of Israel's claim to a land area that they had every right to, and that no other nation at the time wanted.

As far as the "you cannot legislate love and acceptance" line goes, that's certainly true. The answer is, who gives a $@#%? No one is asking the Muslims to love Israel -- only stop trying to destroy it. Or perhaps you think America should capitulate to the Islamo-Nazis who want the US under sharia law, if we can't get them to "love and accept" us? Of course, you probably think if the US throws Israel to the wolves, the Islamo-Nazis WILL "love and accept" us. News flash -- AMERICA is the GREAT Satan, not Israel.

It is also true you can't FORCE "love and acceptance." However, you can FORCE unconditional surrender. Acceptance and even, possibly, love, will come with time -- AFTER unconditional surrender. See: US History 1865-present.

Warrior - Who Does God's Work?
Warrior writes: "God and only God should have made the decision to establish Israel."

Does Warrior expect some bearded apparition in white robes to float in on a cloud, wave his magic wand and, "voila", Israel is created?

Could the establishment of Israel in 1948 be "God's will?" Could the unrest of the past fifty years (a mere "blink of an eye", celestially speaking) be part of this process?

Warrior... your anti-Semitism is showing!

You don't play patty-cake with the enemy
you annihilate them and then dictate peace terms from a position of strength. Vegetus said about 3,000 years ago: "Let he who desires peace prepare for war."

DocNoleCat/ Primus 54
Read:www.mideastweb.org/us_supportforstate.htm

We knew in 1945 what the outcome would be with the partition of Palestine. George C. Marshall, Sec of State cautioned against it and Truman knew it was wrong. As for you Primus 54, rest assured your labeling of me to stifle my debate is a nonstarter.

Self Defense
Although the question of Israel's right to exist is interesting, it is mute: Israel does exist. Warrior, you don't like labels but you provide alot of evidence to support the label given you. Go ahead and whine about what you percieve as a mistake. Israel will be supported by America because she is a friendly government with shared democratic ideals. Our president's hope for democracy among the primarily Islamic nations of the Mid-East notwithstanding, our relationship with those nations ranges from tentative to menacing. Does anyone who values our western life style want to live under the rule of the likes of Hamas and Hezbollah? Even when we try to force Israel to bend to our will they don't take Americans hostage or blow up embassies or airplanes with innocent people in them. We must support Israel and press for the destruction of Hezbollah and Hamas, as well as other terrorist groups and nations.

Litany of Wars
Since formation, the history of Israel reads like a nation under siege , interspersed with periods of war, and having won them all--no respite from danger. Can anyone see that the Arabs are stronger now than at anytime since Israel was formed. That terrorist now have 2 potential sources of nuclear weapons without any delay for development time--those sources North Korea and Pakistan. War will not "fix" the problems Israel faces. Only a fool can continue for 60 years to do the same thing and expect a different outcome. Additionally, I do not believe the Law of Adverse Possession is applicable among nations.

Back to You, Warrior
... It was wrong for Chamberlain to appease Hitler; it was wrong for politicians to attempt to hold our generals back in Vietnam; it was wrong for Bill Clinton to NOT grab UBL in 1996 when he was offered.

The history books and archives are replete with evidence supporting the other side of a debate, making debate easy for Monday morning quarterbacks.

Woulda-couldas do nothing in the "NOW" situation. Do you have nothing to offer in the way of a solution other than Israel to cease to exist?

As to labels, you need to learn the difference between nouns (labels) and verbs (behaviors). It is your behavior upon which I commented.

Primus 54
About me: I am a retired Army Colonel with 2 tours in Viet Nam and Desert Storm experience. I have some
credibility when it comes to war and the conditions needed to achieve true peace. I am pro-American to the bone, hence, I look at all threats from the level of our National Interest. If your head is so small that only the idea of some bias can fit in it, you will never have anything to offer as a solution to any problem. I think Israel was a mistake--not because Jews live there but because the Palestinians were displaced to make room for them.

Muslims Want Second Holocaust Now
This conflict is part of the war Islam is waging against the Israel, the US and the Christian European nations-with the objectives of destroying Israel, and murdering every single Jew and Christian (religiously speaking of course) on earth. Hezbollah, Hamas, Fatah, al-Qaeda, Taliban and Iran are all part of this war.

The liberal press knows this but it does not have the morals, integrity or decency to report it. The reason is the liberal press, without exception is on the side of Islam.

Hezbollah started the conflict with Israel by trying to start a second Holocaust. The liberal press knows this but it does not have the morals, integrity or decency to report it. Some in the press like the NY Times openly harbor racist hatred of Jews, and would like nothing more than to see a second Holocaust.

The press has gone to great length to lie about what has happened in this conflict. An example is CNN's refusal to report that there is literally no evidence of any civilian casualties in Lebanon caused by Israel. Why? Because that makes it obvious that the civilian deaths are the result of Hezbollah firing its rockets at Lebanese civilians, while Israeli war planes hit Hezbollah's military facilities.

Only when Hezbollah, Hamas, Fatah, al-Qaeda, Taliban and Iran are rendered toally incapable of killing anyone will there ever be peace.

We are in World war III like it or not.

Evict All Muslims
All Muslims should be force-marched out of Israel, the "Palestinian" territories, and Lebanon right across the border into Syria. All their homes, personal property and weaponry should be confiscated. No muslim should ever be allowed to return - EVER.

In the meantime, the U.S. should already be bombing Syria and Iran - extensively. President Bush should go to Congress and ask for a formal declaration of war against both Iran and Syria. Both countries should be totally dismantled in the manner of Germany and Japan after WWII.

It's time to emasculate the vicious, ignorant Muslim Pigs of the world. "Either you're with us, or you're with the terrorists." Iran and Syria are with the terrorists and should be obliterated. PERIOD.

re: israeli 'displacement'
warrior:

The nascent State of Israel did not 'displace' a single Palestinian in 1948 (or ever). Just before attacking Israel, the Arab States told the "Palestinians" (just Jordanians at the time) to leave so that the Jews could be annihalited. Those that left were not accepted into Egypt, Jordan, Syria, or Lebanon; they were forced to live as refugees in the West Bank and Gaza. Those that stayed in Israel were allowed to live their lives (and are welcome members of Israeli society) furthermore, they have the highest standard of living of any Arab living in the Mid East.

Palestinians victims of the Arabs
Warrior, try reading "The Haj" by Leon Uris. He goes into great depth on how it was the Arabs who displaced the Arabs living in Israel when the Arabs attacked in 1948. They Arabs fled to Jordon where they were left to starve by their fellow Arabs. Ironically, the Israelis rescued many of them who were w/o food and water.

Revisit tough talk.
Russia lurks and smirks and loves the evil puppets works, and China wines and dines as
the puppets lie as others die, why do I not
cut these puppet strings for I cannot dance
the way these evil puppets dance.

Dear American Leadership.

TEAR DOWN THE PUPPET FACTORY THAT IS IRAN.

Proportionality in War is a Myth
There was a time in our not too distant past when the American response to a single attack on a single Naval Base in a single American territory in the Pacific was to fire-bomb and level entire cities, to kill hundreds of thousands of enemy soldiers and civilians, culminating in nuking two of their cities off the face of the Earth, and to remove the regime not only of the Country that perpetrated the attack, but those regimes that supported it as well. How's that for "proportionality"? Now, that's how wars should be fought. Never leave any potential adversary with any doubt that picking a fight with you would mean their utter destruction.

That's the whole point of war...the disproportionate application of force to utterly and completely destroy your enemy. If there's anything history has taught us with bloody certainty, it's that "Peace" absent an overwhelming military victory is at best a temporary illusion. Let Israel finally finish the job.

Back at Warrior
"Since formation, the history of Israel reads like a nation under siege , interspersed with periods of war, and having won them all--no respite from danger."

You could easily replace "Israel" with "America" in that sentence.

"Can anyone see that the Arabs are stronger now than at anytime since Israel was formed."

And Israel is responsible for this -- how?

"That terrorist now have 2 potential sources of nuclear weapons without any delay for development time--those sources North Korea and Pakistan."

Thanks to, respectively, Jimmy Carter & Bill Clinton and our friends the Canadians & French. Incidentally, the reason you don't have a third source on there -- YET -- is because Iraq's nuke program was taken out by guess which Middle Eastern nation?

"War will not "fix" the problems Israel faces. Only a fool can continue for 60 years to do the same thing and expect a different outcome."

I agree. For 60 years Israel has "shown restraint" in the face of provocations that would have brought total war between any other nations on earth. Now they're not.

"Additionally, I do not believe the Law of Adverse Possession is applicable among nations."

Even if it did, it wouldn't apply to this cicrumstance.

Warrior....
Sorry... I had to leave these postings for an appointment and upon my return, the power was out.

At any rate, it would seem our able colleagues have sufficiently corrected the historical errors from your previous posts and I note no exculpatory references from you since.

While I wonder how an Army veteran of such high rank could have been so much in error over his history, especially given your Mideast tour of duty, if you are honestly representing your life, let me be the first to thank you for your service to our country. Clearly we see things in a different light, but I have never failed to offer my gratitude to the men and women who have worn our nation's uniform... all politics aside.

No one has the Moral High Ground!

As a graduate of the US Navel academy and a Marine Officer How can Ollie North disregard the historic facts which I’m sure he is very well aware of…

I wonder why the supporters of Israeli government are so pro Israel. They seem to have lost all objectivity when it comes to Israel and her international misdeeds.

Combatants in the ongoing middle east conflict have innocent BLOOD on their hands! None of the warring factions is without some degree of culpability.

The infrastructure in Lebanon, which is being demolished, may take years to replace not to mention that hundreds of Innocent people are being harmed and or killed.

When you're wounded people hurt, they bleed, and too often they die -- it makes no difference if the round, the bomb or the rocket comes from a Israeli or a Arab weapon, aircraft or whatever delivery system is used.

Sadly, It appears that most of our politicos and TV talking heads (cable and mainstream) appear to be staunch defenders of almost every and any action of the Israeli government.

Which brings me to a tragic incident which is seemingly absent from the memory of most of the US media and federal officeholders.

How can The United States possibly forget that On June 8, 1967 the IDF's launched an attack on the US Naval vessel the USS Liberty in which elements of the Israeli military forces in coordinated attack murdered 34 US Sailors and wounded/maimed 171 members of the USS Liberty’s crew.

Should you want the details of the IDF’s attack go the USS Liberty’s web site…

http://www.ussliberty.org/

How can anyone possibly justify much less forget the treacherous attack on the USS Liberty by Israel? Please don’t try to the sell the story that the attack was a mistake, because that fabrication won’t float!

One more thing, you could say, Hezbollah and Hamas are operating, in the same manner, as the Israeli's founders did at the time of the fight for the establishment of Israel.

The Israeli fighters blew-up the King David Hotel which housed the headquarters of the British Army on the scene

The Jewish Virtual Library…

(http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/Kingdavhot.html)

informs…

“During the British Mandate, the entire southern wing [of the King David Hotel] became the administrative and military center of British rule in Palestine and was blown up in July 1946 by the Irgun - 91 people were killed, most of them civilians. The hotel subsequently became a British fortress”

I believe they also planted and used explosive devices in Jerusalem’s Railway station.

Sound familiar?

It should because Hizballah terrorists killed 220 American Marines, 18 sailors, and 3 soldiers on 23 October 1983 by driving a bomb-laden truck into the Marine barracks in Beirut.

Enough said! At least from me.




Regarding Warrior’s View...

As a “retired Army Colonel with 2 tours in Viet Nam and Desert Storm experience” Warrior claims he has “some credibility when it comes to…the conditions needed to achieve true peace.” I wonder how he got his insight from 1) Vietnam--where “true peace” was only achieved after America was forced out of the war (by our ever-diligent “peace” movement; motto, Always Willing to Undercut Any (American) War Effort, No Questions Asked!), much to the dismay (and the pain and suffering) of 18 million South Vietnamese who now live under the Jackboot of a brutal totalitarian (and oh so leftist) regime. And from 2) Desert Storm--where we were allowed to defeat the Iraqi army and eject it from Kuwait, but were prevented (by world opinion, and you know…those pesky peace-addicts) from properly finishing the process of bringing “true peace” to the region until 10 years later, with our second invasion of Iraq.


Maybe, if Warrior were a veteran of WWII, I’d take his claim to some higher understanding of how “true peace” is established as more, shall I say, credible?


And, it’s interesting that Warrior would mention Pakistan--as a potential supplier of on-demand nuclear weapons for terrorists--given the facts surrounding the establishment of that quasi-terrorist state. For if Israel has no right to exist, and was a “mistake,” then the creation of Pakistan was a global blight of the first order, and the stain of its invention should be forever blotted out. (It is indeed interesting how Islamists can have their cake and eat it, too.)


As for Warrior’s statement that Israel is a nation under siege--earth to Warrior, all non-Muslim nations are either under siege now, or soon will be.


That’s because Muslims (well, at least the ardent practitioners of Islam) believe that ALL the land currently located on our plant belongs to Allah--who, according to Sharia Law, is the only true deed-holder of record. To prove this point, militant Muslims are currently engaged in “struggles” (i.e., wars) in upwards of 20 locations throughout the world. The list includes Afghanistan, Bosnia, Cote d’lvoire, Cyprus, East Timor, India, Indonesia, Iraq, Kosovo, Kurdistan, Macedonia, Nigeria Pakistan, Philippines, Russia (Chechnya), Sri Lanka, Sudan, and Uganda. They’ve also initiated terror campaigns against the western nations of Canada, the United States, Great Britain, Spain, France, Germany, the Netherlands, and Australia (via the Bali attack).


As for Ghost’s post, nice try. But, your attempt at moral equivalence falls flat, mainly, because...that was then, and this is now.


To borrow a line from Shakespeare, may Israel “… let slip the dogs of war” and may Hezbollah and Hamas become as Kibble & Bits before them.

DocNoleCat
You made all my points, though you may not have intended to.
You could easily replace "Israel" with "America" in that sentence. That is not my point. My point is wars have not ameliorated the problem. Israel fights--Israel wins--Arabs come back stronger and more determined.
And Israel is responsible for this -- how? No, but they have to deal with it and numbers and oil dollars work against them.
Thanks to, respectively, Jimmy Carter & Bill Clinton and our friends the Canadians & French. Incidentally, the reason you don't have a third source on there -- YET -- is because Iraq's nuke program was taken out by guess which Middle Eastern nation? True, but again, that is just verbiage. Israel has to face the reality of today. Reading yesterday's paper clippings or wallowing in past victories will not get the job done. Israel is faced with the dilemma of using nuclear weapons to insure their survival. The Arabs will either destroy Israel with their nukes or die at the hands of Israel in a pre-emptive strike. If you graph Arab strength versus time--Israel is faced with a very uncertain future. Conventionally, untenable--nuclear, Israel cannot absorb a first strike.

Debishop
I have no quarrel with anything you say--it all looks fairly accurate except: Desert Storm was stopped because that was the mandate granted by the UN. I was there when "Gen Stormin Norman" met with the vanquished in the tent--we all knew then we should have continued on to Baghdad and finish the war but President Bush was insistent about the mandate. So was Gen Powell. Israel is under classic siege--they are SURROUNDED by Arabs that want to destroy them and time is on the Arab side. Israel cannot survive without a pre-emptive nuclear strike at some point. The Arabs will have nuclear weapons and Israel cannot absorb a first strike nuclear attack. The country is too small. What Israel hopes for now is time--time for the world to wake up and rid the civilized peoples of terrorist. I am convinced that is a hopeless dream.

Warrior
You wrote to Debishop:

"What Israel hopes for now is time--time for the world to wake up and rid the civilized peoples of terrorist. I am convinced that is a hopeless dream."

I'm very sorry to read you feel this way... because it is not just Israel these terrorists wish to wipe off the map... it includes us, the "Great Satan", and all societies who don't comply with the Islamo-fascists worldview. It won't end with Israel and there is no negotiating with people whose sole existence and belief system is predicated on converting all peoples to Islam or killing them if they don't. I, for one, believe they can be defeated over time as long as rational people who love freedom (and religious choice) don't forget the lessons of 911... or listen to appeasers and defeatists.

Warrior, I'm fully aware that...
"Desert Storm was stopped because that was the mandate granted by the UN." Those who favored that UN mandate are the same ones who, a decade later, criticized Bush 41 for “not taking out Saddam when we had the chance!” Such hypocrisy is typical of the left.


I concur with your negative assessment of Israel’s position. And, I too, believe that nuclear weapons may ultimately come into play.


However, a forceful statement from the US, such as the one made by President Kennedy during the Cuban Missile Crisis—that a nuclear attack launched from Cuba would be viewed as an attack on the US by the USSR, requiring a full-on nuclear retaliatory strike against the USSR—might clarify things for the Islamic leaders in certain countries, such as Syria and Iran. Of course, the statement would have to specify that a nuclear strike against Israel, or any of our Allies in the War on Terror, would be viewed as a strike against the US, and would require full nuclear retaliation by the US against the nations of Syria and Iran. It's conceivable that such assurances have already been voiced privately.


When the cost (in blood and treasure) of a military, or terrorist, endeavor out-weights the gain derived from such an endeavor the rational response is to discontinue the endeavor. The irrational response (i.e., the failure to desist) must be met with overwhelming, and unrelenting, deadly force; until the irrational becomes rational (i.e., they see the light), or until the forces of irrationality no longer exist.


The Jihad genie will not easily be returned to the bottle. And anyone who thinks that the destruction of Israel will appease the Islamists in their "crusade" to establish an Islamic world ummah (community of believers), is sorely mistaken. I believe millions will die before this struggle is ended.


The question every American needs to answer is, which side do they want to see victorious?

Israel is a Country
One thing the detractors of Israel do not want to acknowledge is that in this instance Israel is a recognized nation and Hizbollah is a terrorist organization. These terrorists have one thing in mind and that is to exterminate the Jews. Realistically if they get the upper hand that is what they will do. If that is accomplished in Israel, God forbid,the terrorists will not be finished. They will want to root out every Jew in the world and start with the Americans. We cannot be smug and assume that they will not attempt that with us because we are big and powerful. Consider that they are "working for Allah" and they have all the time in the world.

To Debishop
... Great post!

A Friendly Reminder...
This is a moderated site, and personal attacks or threats will not be tolerated. Glad to see everyone is getting into the discussion--let's continue keeping things respectfull and friendly.

Continuing with Warrior
"You made all my points, though you may not have intended to.
You could easily replace "Israel" with "America" in that sentence. That is not my point."

So, did I make your points, or didn't I? Hopefully you were clearere when you were giving orders.

"My point is wars have not ameliorated the problem. Israel fights--Israel wins--Arabs come back stronger and more determined."

So, if Israel DOESN'T fight, this solves the problem -- how? Or if it LOSS -- again, how?

"And Israel is responsible for this -- how? No, but they have to deal with it and numbers and oil dollars work against them."

1. Drill in ANWR
2. Drill everywhere off US coast
3. Build new refineries in US
4. Accelerate development of previously unused resources (ex. shale oil)
5. Perfect coal/oil conversion (the Germans were using this in WW II)
6. Convert all "fossil fuel" energy plants to nuclear energy
7. IN ADDITION, explore alternative energy

$ problem solved; # problem becomes irrelevant.

T"hanks to, respectively, Jimmy Carter & Bill Clinton and our friends the Canadians & French. Incidentally, the reason you don't have a third source on there -- YET -- is because Iraq's nuke program was taken out by guess which Middle Eastern nation? True, but again, that is just verbiage."

That's a HISTORICAL FACT, pal. Calling it "verbiage" means nothing other than "this utterly refuted my point, but I don't have the guts to admit it."

"Israel has to face the reality of today. Reading yesterday's paper clippings or wallowing in past victories will not get the job done. Israel is faced with the dilemma of using nuclear weapons to insure their survival. The Arabs will either destroy Israel with their nukes or die at the hands of Israel in a pre-emptive strike. If you graph Arab strength versus time--Israel is faced with a very uncertain future. Conventionally, untenable--nuclear, Israel cannot absorb a first strike"

Again, you could replace "Israel" with "America" in that paragraph -- which is why getting the US off Muslim oil is so important. Once they're not protected by our need for the black gold, I suspect the little jihadists darlings will calm down considerably.

Republican Flip Flopping
The Republican party under the Reagan administration supported Iraq and Saddam Housein. We have photos of Donald Rumsfield shaking hands with Saddam.

Ollie North is a convicted felon who's sole reason for not going to jail is that the conviction was overturned, not on the merits of the case, but on the technicality that Ollie was promised immunity for testifying.

What was Ollie convicted for? It's the called the Iran-Contra affair whereby during the same war we were supporting the Iraqi's, Ollie North was also selling arms to Iran for support of the Contra's in Central America.

Yet the very dictator we were supporting in the war against Iraq could not be controlled when the war ended. Hello? Doesn't anybody else see the fact that perhaps the Republicans aren't that skilled at supporting regimes? Reagan's vice president no less could not reign in Saddam with diplomatic, financial arm twisting.

What does that bode for the Republican support of the Iraqi government? Answer? The Iraqi government does not support the U.S. position in Israel. The Iraqi government has called for an immediate cease fire. This is with the U.S. troops and billions of dollars going into rebuilding that country and the Republicans can't even win over political support? What does this mean when we start weaning Iraq off of American troops and dollars?

Answer: Iraq will ally itself with Iran and Saudi Arabia dollars.

The Iran-Contra affair, the history of Republican support of an uncontrollable despot like Saddam shows clearly the Republicans are failures in the Middle-East? And what is going on in Afghanistan? Complete failure.

Ollie North and the Republicans have zero credibility when it comes to success in the middle-east.

Warrior
The Zionists bought land in the lands of the Ottomans while the Turks controlled it. You know, like for money. After WWI they continued land purchases until the British (who then controlled the land) began to get nervous. They preferred to kiss up to the Arabs (not Palestinians) in the neighborhood, and were not overly fond of the Jews. Between WWI and WWII the Zionists continued to buy land, but as Hitler gained power in Europe, and the Arabs sided with Hitler, the Brits began to try to choke off immigration of European Jews. There was a nasty little character named Amin Husseini with the laughable title of Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, who stirred up rioting because he wanted to control Jerusalem. (The Saudis had Mecca and Medina all to themselves.) After WWII ended the Brits completely stopped any Jewish immigration. They maintained concentration camps on Cyprus for any who were caught trying. In 1948 the UN voted to partition the mandate into Trans-Jordan and Israel. The Arabs Told their own people to evacuate so the 7 armies that were poised to attack the Jews wouldn't have to worry about getting them killed in the crossfire. They left, but the Arab alliance fell apart and the attack didn't happen. The Palestinians were now without a homeland. They went to Jordan and proceeded to make themselves unwelcome, then were kicked over to Lebanon, and have been stirring up trouble ever since. They know how to play the victim card better than Jesse Jackson because they aren't troubled by bourgeoise concepts like truth. Their "religion" actually encourages lying, cheating, and killing infidels. (That's you and me, guy.)

While you're talking about God not creating Israel, he didn't create this country either. He also didn't put wings on any of us, but we manage to fly anyway. And as for love and acceptance, well you're alive aren't you? How much of my love and acceptance is necessary for that? That's no more than you need to give Israel. I don't believe for an instant that you would want those Jihadists to win. Don't forget - we are the Great Satan, and they'll be coming for us sooner or later - even if we hand Israel to them on a silver platter.
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