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Tuesday, May 12, 2009
Mona Charen :: Townhall.com Columnist
Obama's Signal to Israel: Submit
by Mona Charen
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In early April, Vice President Biden was asked if the administration was concerned that Israel might strike at Iran's nuclear facilities. "I don't believe Prime Minister Netanyahu would do that," Mr. Biden replied. "I think he would be ill advised to do that."

A few weeks later, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton explained the administration's solution to the threat of an Iranian bomb: "For Israel to get the kind of strong support it's looking for vis-a-vis Iran, it can't stay on the sideline with respect to the Palestinians and the peace efforts ... they go hand in hand."

And on May 10, National Security Adviser James Jones spelled it out further: "We understand Israel's preoccupation with Iran as an existential threat. We agree with that. ... By the same token, there are a lot of things that you can do to diminish that existential threat by working hard towards achieving a two-state solution."

By what reasoning has the administration decided that pushing Israel to permit a new Palestinian state would -- in any way -- diminish the threat from Iran? Do they believe that Iran's (or I should say the Iranian leadership's) genocidal hostility toward Israel is the result of lack of progress toward an independent Palestinian state in the West Bank and Gaza? Will the Iranian leadership, which has characterized Israel as a "cancerous tumor," declared that "Israel must we wiped off the map," and promised that "Israel is destined for destruction and will soon disappear" is going to change its mind if Israel enters into negotiations with the Palestinians?

"Obama will be a great friend to Israel." So said a Jewish Democrat in a pre-election debate with me. I asked her whether she had any hesitations about someone who had been steeped in academic pieties and Hyde Park leftwing intellectual fashions, and who had tamely absorbed the Rev. Wright's sermons for 20 years? Her response was to mouth some of the platitudes about support for Israel that were to be found on the Obama campaign's website. I wonder if she is having doubts now.

Does it give her pause that Rose Gottemoeller, assistant secretary of state and America's chief nuclear arms negotiator, has called on Israel (along with Pakistan, India, and North Korea) to sign the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty? By including Israel on a list of nations known to either have nuclear weapons or be close to acquiring them, the Obama administration is introducing a sinister note of moral equivalence to the problem of nuclear weapons in the Middle East. All previous U.S. governments have implicitly accepted that Israel's nuclear weapons pose a threat to no nation and are maintained only to deter Israel's enemies from genocidal attacks.

Like other liberals, my debate opponent probably believes that Obama's apology tour of global capitals was pitch perfect. Of course, it's one thing for the United States, still the world's superpower, to delude itself that winning international popularity contests will make us safer (though it's a dangerous delusion), but Israel, which always sits inches from the precipice of destruction, cannot afford such fantasies at all.

We have recent history to guide us. In 2000, Israel withdrew from the security corridor it had established in southern Lebanon. The world had long been clamoring for Israel to do this. The Iranian-sponsored Hezbollah movement immediately seized the area -- trumpeting its triumph in driving out the enemy. In 2006, southern Lebanon became the launching pad for Hezbollah's missile campaign against northern Israel.

Israel withdrew from Gaza in 2005. The Iranian-backed Hamas movement moved quickly and took control there (not without significant internecine bloodshed with Fatah), and again used the territory not to build a peaceful Palestinian enclave but to launch 10,000 missiles against southern Israel.

Fatah (which is called moderate because it wants to destroy Israel on the installment plan rather than all at once) retains tenuous control of the West Bank. But even Mahmoud Abbas admits that if Israel were to withdraw completely from the area, Hamas would gain control in a heartbeat.

Next week, Prime Minister Netanyahu will meet with President Obama in Washington. It is hard to see how this relationship can go well. President Obama has sent abundant signals that his foreign policy is 50 percent wishful thinking and 50 percent leftwing mush. There may not be any easy answers to the problem of a nuclear Iran. But pressuring Israel to take suicidal risks is clearly the worst possible approach. Iran will conclude, as its proxies Hezbollah and Hamas at various times concluded, that force and the threat of force work.

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About The Author
Mona Charen is a syndicated columnist, political analyst and author of Do-Gooders: How Liberals Hurt Those They Claim to Help .
 
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So, it comes to this
A clear-eyed leader of Israel will meet with a wall-eyed POTUS. A leader meets "hip." He who represents those on the brink meets he who would rob from Brinks. He who forms coalitions meets he who worries about coal-emmissions.
He who keeps Israel neither sleeps nor slumbers.

Profblog
Those comments were outstanding.

May I add on:

A leader who apologizes to no one meets a narcissist who apologizes to everyone.
A leader who 'stands firm' meets a socialist who 'Bans firms'.
A leader who defends the West Bank meets a usurper who wants to control the banks.

I support Israel..
There is no leader in the world that does not think we have a FOOL for a President. The Israeli leader is at the top of the list..Netanyahu knows he cannot depend on the U.S. but he must make appearances anyway.
I watch the news daily..I am looking for one story..
"Israel attacks nuclear facilities in Iran"
It is coming and no one, not even the fool in the white house will stop it or do anything about it except condemn Israel.
He does so at his own peril..It is VERY clear..If we do not support Israel, we will pay the price and it will be huge.

Amateur

Our Pollyanna Popinjay president is an amateur. Apparently he thinks that the sheer force of his remarkable talent for producing vast volumes of BS will bring the world together in a giant clusterhug.

He doesn't seem to see that the worls not only still hates us (which is just fine with me) but is laughing at us as well.

One more for Profblog

A leader who needs no prompting to know when to speak from the heart, meets a rookie who needs a telepromter to tell him when to fart.

Profblog/Corndog
Excellent although that last from you Corndog needed a spew alert, glad I'd finished me tay.

I don't think Totus told Potus what God thinks of his ideas..I will bless those who bless you and curse those who curse you..so batten down the hatches, it isn't just the rulers who got into trouble when they disobeyed God..the people suffered also.
I have no fear that Israel will disappear from the map..God will protect them and the whole world will see His power and His glory through it.
Wish we had one such as Netanyahu..there's a real man for ya'..and what have we got..a metrosexual knowitall that's gonna get U.S. in
loads of trouble.

Remembering history
Anyone inclined to believe the rhetoric about the current administration's "support" of Israel would be wise to review the shameful chapters of Britain's "support" of Czechoslovakia and Poland in 1938-39 under the direction of supposedly reasonable and responsible men (Neville Chamberlain and Edward Halifax). In the late thirties the British public was gulled by a sycophantic government abetted by the media which was in the tank (sound familiar?). We know how that policy worked out.

The Visit
Netanyahu would do well by putting diplomacy aside, sitting down w/Barack, Joe and Hillery together in the same room...and give them a history lesson...and what is to come regardless of US support. He should also lay in front of them the public relations nightmare he will create for them by spilling his guts to the media...(if they'll print it)...While I am not Jewish, my gut tells me a lot of the Jewish vote will be lost to the Dems if we are not fully behind Netanyahu/Israel...

All Hail Bolshevik Barry!
Obama is willing to sacrifice Israel because it stands in his way of becoming the Enlightened Leader of the World. No doubt the man is deeply touched with megalomania.

Many of us tried to warn Jewish voters that Obama was not to be trusted. I wonder how many now realize they were suckered--not that it matters much now, as the horse is out of the barn and the 4 Horsemen are saddling up for their fabled ride.

OBAMA'S XMAS WARNING ABOUT HAMAS
On December 26th the Obama family was vacationing for Xmas in Honolulu when the island was hit by a massive power failure. Four hours later with the island still dark Israel attacked Gaza. Was this an ominous sign to Obama warning him about the dire consequences of meddling in the Israeli/Palestinian conflict and trying to force a settlement? For the answer click ApolloSpeaks scroll down and read "Hamas Leader Seeks Two State Solution."



The Bow
I wonder how Israel felt when the picture of BO bowing to the Saudis got around. I would feel a lot better if I truly believed that he believed he was the 'enlightened leader' of the world; rather than the catalyst that will bring about islamic law worldwide.

A real leader
Israel is lucky enough to have a real leader. He knows what he needs to do to keep the people of his country safe. He knows that is the primary goal for any leader. The poor American citizens are stuck with this idiot who puts us in more danger each day.

Obama fiddles while the ME burns
Does anyone really think that the violence in against Israel will stop just because Palestine is made into a formal, recognized, sovereign nation?

What kind of stupidity is that?

And for you fools who actually buy into this nonsense, I remind you that some 233 years ago a tiny group of colonists, subjects of the English Crown, also wanted their own nation. But they didn't achieve it by launching rockets and lobbing morter fire into an adjacent land. And they didn't achieve it by waiting for other nations to meet in their ivory towers and negotiate the terms under which the new nation would co-exist with its neighbors, friends, and enemies.

They achieved it by declaring their independence and managing their own affairs, without asking for either the consent nor the assistance of other countries.

If the Palestinians want their own state how is Israel going to stop them? This "two-state solution" is thoroughly a pile of BS that even Hillary Clinton ought to be able to smell, and she's about as stupid as they come.

What the Palestinians really want is to annhiliate Israel. Everyone knows that. The US can either help them, help Israel defend itself,or sit on the sidelines. The Obama Administration thinks it can make the world believe it is helping BOTH sides in this fight when that is logically impossible.

When BO, JB, HC, and JJ have fought for their own survival, then they may be qualified to give 'advice' to Israel. Until then they should either take a stand or STFU.

Gutless wonders. All of them.

C-Span
Saw you on C-Span, and enjoyed every minute of you taking on the Smart People who called in to say Bush lied. I noticed that none of the callers mentioned that Nancy Pelosi lied. About Israel, it is simple math to me, 2+2=4, OK and agreed. Well if Israel wants to have a 9/10 mind set like President Obama and the Democrats, and there people voted for these type of people like Americans did, and Iran does exactly what it said it would do, then all I think the Prime Minister of Israel should ask Obama to do is to ensure that he and Hillary apologize for the lost of innocent men, women, and children, even if they find out it was North Korea that fired the missle a month later. It's the apology for the Democrats! The lost of life is irrelvant just like the truth is.

wiseone
Do you have a better solution? Allowing Israel to just imprison and subjugate the Gaza populace and invade the West Bank is the worst possible situation and it needs to stop. But, in any event, Obama is on Israel's side.

Nuclear Weapons
"By including Israel on a list of nations known to either have nuclear weapons or be close to acquiring them, the Obama administration is introducing a sinister note of moral equivalence to the problem of nuclear weapons in the Middle East."

Either the US supports non-proliferation or it doesn't. The US put pressure on Taiwan to abandon its program in the early 1980s and if Hau Pei-Tsun is to be believed if Taiwan had not closed down its program due to that pressure Taiwan would have been able to produce nuclear weapons by 1986. The US also opposed the ROK's program.

Israel has a stockpile of between 250-450 weapons and at the upper end would be the same size as China's stockpile. If the US is going to demand Iran stop its nuclear program, stopped the ROC and ROK's program, put sanctions on Pakistan for its program, then it should do the same in regard to Israel--it won't of course, but it should.

Eddie
Sorry to tell you, but the republicans were in charge on 9/10 and, hard as it is to believe, when Wall Street came crashing down.

Ronald Reagan believed the Palestinians should be treated better and hated that the West Bank was being stolen from the Palestinians.

Preston
"It is coming and no one, not even the fool in the white house will stop it or do anything about it except condemn Israel."

That's fine, but the US should make it clear that if Israel does attack Iran that it should expect no support from the US and if that sparks a general war between the Arabs and Persians and themselves, that will be their fight and on their own.

If George Bush and his lackeys can do that in regards to Chen Shui-bian, Obama can do that with "Bibi" too.

Daft
"Do you have a better solution? Allowing Israel to just imprison and subjugate the Gaza populace and invade the West Bank is the worst possible situation and it needs to stop. But, in any event, Obama is on Israel's side."

Israel is not "imprisoning" or "subjugating" the Palestinians. They respond to terrorist acts by them. That si what idiots like you fail to see. Obama is not on Israel's side, he is making them capitulate to those who would destroy her.

go walk your dog
Our president, who calls himself a 'Christian' has apparently (obviously) never read the Bible. He not only believes in abortion (though he may state otherwise), but now he is telling Israel to forfeit their sovereignty -as he wants us to do with ours. He would serve us best by taking his dog out for a walk- and keep walking, maybe over to his ''friends' whom he asked forgiveness from.

Baradiel
That you could not know that Gaza is imprisoned, I'm afraid says you're very ignorant on the subject.

Joel
Same cut and paste tripe from you. So tell me are the Christians, Buddhists and Hindus in Malaysia enslaved in Malaysia? Are they killed for their faith?

Yes, nuking Mecca...you and Tancredo suffer from the same mental disorder? Sparking a war with 1/6th of the world? And you think people hate Americans now? If you do this and happen to be outside the US, do yourself a favor and claim you are Canadian, South African, from Iceland...anything BUT an American.

"Here at home, declare Islam to be a political system, not a religion, and thus not protected by the Constitution. As the stated goal of Islam is the imposition of Sharia Law on EVERYONE, every adult male, American Islamic is guilty of Treason..."

The SCOTUS would no doubt have issues with this. Is Malaysia under Sharia law? It is not. Malaysian law is based on English law being a former colony of the British Empire and a member of the Commonwealth.

Murdered by the state due to one's faith...haven't I heard this before...oh I remember now...the Nazis. Joel, you'd fit right in...you in the habit of singing Deutschland Uber Alles?


Brian
There are many Christians who don't follow the Bible like you want them to, but that doesn't mean they're not as good of
Christians, and Christ would have favored love towards one's neighbors and charity. Did you read about Obama and Pelosi at the last apaic meeting?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cOJNC2EuJw

Brian
The international community has never recognized the occupation of the West Bank, Gaza or the Golan Heights as legitimate, not even the United States. In this way, they are like East Timor under Indonesia or Tibet under Chinese rule or say parts of Poland under the Nazis or Manchukuo.

Iran is a distinct issue. Problems between Israel and Iran will continue no matter what happens in regards to the occupied territories. As for the Bible, the land of Israel contains in part or in whole several independent countries, should a Christian president support their forced inclusion inside the modern state of Israel?

Akagi
Good morning. Great comments this morning!

Phil
"While I am not Jewish, my gut tells me a lot of the Jewish vote will be lost to the Dems if we are not fully behind Netanyahu/Israel..."

A good many of American Jews support Labor, not the crazies in Likud. Bibi is no more popular with them than is George Bush. If Bibi does something stupid, they won't expect Obama to support him like some lapdog. What Obama should do is scold him in public like Bush did with Chen Shui-bian, that the US will not support a unilateral attack on Iran by Israel. Since Israel would probably have to fly over Iraq to get to Iran, the US should make it clear any violation of Iraqi airspace would not be tolerated--and he could read between the lines what that means that the US would destroy any IDF aircraft violating Iraqi airspace.

Taft
You are a Israel hating anti-Semite. Now got that off my chest. How about a little factual history lesson in hopes you have the capacity to learn (fat chance). Israel was given most of the lands it presently owns, not occupies, by the League of Nation, the pre-cursor to your loving UN.

Israel was promptly attacked, and repulsed the enemy. Attacked again in 1967, repulsed the enemy again. Attacked again in 1972 and repulsed the enemy again. During those wars, they took thousands of miles of land from those attackers. A lesser country would have just kept the land and they had every right to do so, but they didn't.

Most of the Palestinians you say were misplaced came from Jordan, not the lands now owned by Israel. You don't see Jordan giving land to them. In fact, Jordan doesn't even want the Palestinians in Jordan.

Now you still call Israel occupiers. What a fool. I think I'll just glaze over your silly posts from now on!

Charen
"All previous U.S. governments have implicitly accepted that Israel's nuclear weapons pose a threat to no nation and are maintained only to deter Israel's enemies from genocidal attacks."

Taiwan's nuclear weapons would have posed no threat to any nation either. By 1986, Taiwan had dropped all dreams of re-taking the mainland by force and of course, by 1986, the PRC had a stockpile of several hundred weapons. The weapons would be only to deter an invasion or other military force by the PRC. The ROK's program no different--simply a weapon to deter an attack by the DPRK. This did not stop the US from pressuring both the ROC and ROK to give up their programs.

What makes Israel different from the ROC and ROK, is the highly conencted Israel-firsters that hold Israel can do no wrong and if wants nuclear weapons or wants to sell PHALCON to China, that's fine with them.

To MONA
I'm still not speaking to a lifelong Jewish friend who voted for him. And she's super smart! So I don't know if she is having second thoughts now after all this disturbing news. I told her pre-election this would happen, but she didn't listen. But then I've lost a lot of friends over this election, so I'm not surprised. My acronym for them is: the H.A.D. (the hypnotized and duped)

Who decided that...
..."support for Israel" had anything whatsoever to do with US conservatism? Propping up an illogical, but dangerously nuclear-tipped country (rather than just urging its Jewsih population to come to the US) only seems to double our losses.
This column is for the nutty Zionazis at Free Republic (BTW, whose payroll is their resident Zionut "SJackson" on?)

Akagi, You Little Twit:
The difference between Israel and Taiwan is that Israel is surrounded by bloodthirsty Muslims who have vowed to annihilate the country.

And whisper of "Israel" is guaranteed to bring you out from your little cubbbyhole. You are a Jew-hater in addition to being a pseudointellectual crashing bore.

To DON
Since obviously you are up to speed on all the confusion over there...please explain why BHO sent millions to HAMAS. Any predictions? I'd be most interested to hear more from you about all this. What do you think about the U.N. setting up shop in Israel? There's limited parking in Manhattan. It would free up a lot of it....plus their presence might stabilize the region. (A New Yorker friend's suggestion. Makes sense to me.) Thank you for casting some light on the subject.

Bibi, et al
Akaqi

This is the problem...BO probably wouldn't allow flyovers...and yes it will have to be a unilateral action..my view is...Bibi baby does need to take a stand...or risk annhilation (as has been promised). And we will probably not be there for them.
Was not insinuating that Bibi would be blindly followed by the American Jewish community...but I do believe that their votes could be siphoned if Israel gets into real trouble and BO does nothing.

This Is Isreal's Problem
and up to Isreal to deal with it as it sees fit.

Obama's dog in this fight is that he's a Muslim, in addition to being an illegal alien and an illegitimate POTUS whose every act is null and void.

Netanyahu needs to take care of business and not listen to those who are planning Isreal's destruction.

Obama's
signal to everyone: submit. Hellooooooo dictator.

Don
"Israel was given most of the lands it presently owns, not occupies, by the League of Nation(s)..."

The LON ceased to exist years before Israel's creation. What the LON did was give the British Empire the mandate over the lands that Israel now occupies and they developed a plan to create a Jewish state inside the Mandate. Previously the idea was to form the Jewish state in Uganda.

"Attacked again in 1967, repulsed the enemy again. Attacked again in 1972 and repulsed the enemy again. During those wars, they took thousands of miles of land from those attackers. A lesser country would have just kept the land and they had every right to do so, but they didn't."

In 1967, Israel attacked first. The international community has never recognized the occupation of land Israel took in 1967 as legitimate, no more that it recognized the occupation of East Timor by Indonesia. It does recognize the lands it took in 1948.

"Most of the Palestinians you say were misplaced came from Jordan, not the lands now owned by Israel. You don't see Jordan giving land to them."

Most Israelis in 1947 were displaced Europeans. As for Jordan, why should they? Should Canada give refuge to Americans if they were displaced? Many if not most of the Palestinians living in Gaza and the West Bank were displaced in 1948 from areas now regarded as part of Israel proper. Israel is indeed occupying Palestinian lands--Gaza and the West Bank as well as the Syrian territory of the Golan Heights.

"You are a Israel hating anti-Semite."

Being critical of Israel doesn't make you an anti-Semite (and to be technically correct, Palestinians are Semites too) no more than being critical of the PRC makes you anti-Chinese.

The UN also wasn't really an outgrowth from the League, but from FDR's "Four Policemen" idea. The UN while not formally formed until 1945, actually came to being while the LON still existed in 1942.

Daft
"That you could not know that Gaza is imprisoned, I'm afraid says you're very ignorant on the subject."

The Israeli Military has areas like the West Bank cordoned off because those living there are constantly attacking and murdering Israeli citizens. They move troops into those territories when their population is threatened. You are one who either completely ignorant, or simply anti Semetic.

There was already a two state solution, Jordan and Israel. It obviously didn't work.

Response to Taft
"Do you have a better solution?"

This question implies that Obama & Co. have a solution and that I'm dissatisfied with it. In fact Obama and his minions have NO solutions and NO clues.

I, on the other hand, do have a solution. Take the handcuffs off of Israel and tell the Palestinians that if they want their own state, make one. And that includes not whining when Israel kicks your butts after you've started something.

"Allowing Israel to just imprison and subjugate the Gaza populace..."

Israel doesn't "imprison" or "subjugate" the Gaza populace. Israel does with Gaza what we don't do with Mexico - control their border. Unless my geography is wrong, Gaza access to the Mediteranean and a common border with Egypt. There's no physical reason why "Palestinians" in Gaza can't get to and from wherever without violating their border with Israel. Your argument, and the inflammatory words you use to express it, are just more evidence that 'imprisonment of Gaza' is really just an excuse to militarily assault Israel and kill as many Jews as possible.

"... and invade the West Bank is the worst possible situation and it needs to stop."

All "Palestine" has to do to "stop" Israel from "invad[ing]" the West Bank is refrain from sending rockets and mortars across the border.

"But, in any event, Obama is on Israel's side."

Forrest Gump says, "Stupid is as stupid does", and this applies perfectly to Obama's ME policy. When Obama DOES something to support Israel, Israel will have his support. But as long as all they get from this limp noodle is a lot of BS designed not to anger the "Arab street" Israel has nothing.

Are you really this dense or just a useful idiot of the muslim world?

Another question to those more informed
What's up with bringing all those Palestinians here (BHO's idea)??? Don't we have enough problems here already?????

Delusional
Israel is immediately surrounded on three sides by Hezbollah to the North and Hamas and Palestinians on its flanks. It is the target of Iran, who is both developing nuclear weapons and has promised to "wipe Israel off the map."

In spite of the imminent danger to the state of Israel by enemies whose only intention is the destruction of that tiny state, liberals point the finger at the one who is at gunpoint.

Liberals don't think, they don't even feel, they are un-human automatons who simply repeat what they are programmed to say and how to react. Their delusional state of mind puts us all in immediate danger.

OK Akagi,
Technically correct, but JUST a technicality. LON had the inspiration for a state of Israel.

1967. You obviously don't believe in preemptive strike. Israel WAS going to be attacked by multiple countries. They save their A$$ by attacking first.

What is a "Palistinian land?" Do you not recognize LON/UN/British actions in this matter. Israel has every right to OWN this land. You are wrong and your Canada analogy is apples and oranges.

The modern vernacular for anti-Semite is generally directed towards Jews and includes Israel.


probably
Probably her jewish friends hope that Obama is successful in pushing the two state solution that is the most likely route to Israel not facing perpetual war and terrorist attacks. Obviously I am just guessing, but not all American jews want Israel to continue to show its matyrdom by living in a state of perpetual war. Most would prefer Israel to acheive peace and would favor the US be on the side of peace rather than war.

I have seen that conservatives, including the comparatively few conservative jews, seem to favor the perpetual war scenario. But that is a kind of puzzle given that actual people die in these perpetual wars.

Certainly one can see the horror in wanting to incorporate Israeli into the international treaties because keeping Israel as a country to whom the rules don't count has worked so well for them so far. And in the conservative mind this is only matched by the horror of agreeing to the kinds of terms that would end the constant state of war in the region.

I just wish people who were rooting for perpetual war would not pretend to care about the people they are so condemning.

Lou
And Taiwan has the PRC 100 miles to the west across the Strait with PRC officials in the past saying they would bathe the island in blood and those that play with fire (support for independence) will get burned. It has even implied it would use nuclear weapons against the US, if the US decided to become involved and right across from the ROK is the DPRK who already once launched a devestating war on the ROK.

At this very moment, there are some 800+ missiles pointed at Taiwan sitting in Fujian and the PRC has never renounced the right to "reunify" Taiwan with the motherland by force. In 2005, the NPC passed a anti-secession law directed primarily at Taiwan. So who is the twit here? Obama an illegal alien...you have proof of this? Too bad Obama is a public figure, otherwise he could sue you for libel.

And Phil:

"or risk annhilation..."

And the one who promised that has NO CONTROL over Iran's nuclear program and since Israel's stockpile outnumbers Iran's 450 to zero...

Karen:

US under Bush in 2008 gave millions of aid dollars to Gaza (run by Hamas) and distributed by the UNRWA.






Tell the whole story, Akagi
"The international community has never recognized the occupation of the West Bank, Gaza or the Golan Heights as legitimate, not even the United States."

That's right. And the most recent violence occured after Israel completed their abandonment of those very territories, which included uprooting Jewish families and communities which had lived there for far longer than the illegal immigrants in the US that so many libs want to give amnesty.

The only problem is, as soon as Israel made their gesture of good faith the Palestinians, who had elected the terrorist organization Hamas as their ruling party, began lobbing rockets and mortars into civilian Israeli communities INSIDE ISRAEL, thus proving (again) what Israel has said for decades; when Israel abandons these buffer zones the muslims use them to launch murderous attacks against Israeli civilian inside Israel.

Israel responding to these attacks by kicking Hamas' butt. Then Obama comes along and hands Hamas $900 million of US taxpayers' money to rebuild Gaza and the West Bank after the Israeli retaliation.

What incentive does Hamas have to keep the peace when they know Obama will reward them with hundreds of millions for re-starting this war?

You have to be a complete partisan and/or moron to buy into this crap that Israel is oppressing people outside its borders. Muslims want to destroy Israel. Start with that. Follow the logic. Then everything makes sense. Then, and only then, can you begin to prescribe a 'solution'.

(Hint: "Peace follows victory")

For karen
"What's up with bringing all those Palestinians here (BHO's idea)???"

Who do you suppose these Palestinians are going to vote for in 2012?

Get the picture?

Karen
"What's up with bringing all those Palestinians here..."

Because the US accept refugees...not as many as some others, but it does accept them. The program that Clinton announced was rather modest...20 million dollars.

To WISE ONE in MI
I can't believe that votes are the only reason. He gets enuf votes thrown his way by ACORN. There's got to be more to it than that. You are obviously well read on the situation over there, and I get a headache just trying to understand it, but I do try! Please think up another reason why he would allow hundreds of thousands of Palestinians to come here. We have too many people already that are clamoring for assistance, medical, welfare, etc.

Wiseone
If there were a solution, there would be one by now. Many people smarter than you and I on this issue have been looking at it since 1948 and we are no closer to solving it now than we were then. The best solution would be a secular, pluralistic, democratic state...say called the Union of Israel and Palestine or Palestine and Israel or the Federation of Judaea...maybe the Star of David in the Canton of a flag with black, white and green stripes. But radicals in both camps (Hamas, Hezbollah, Likud and its religious crazies allies)would never accept this solution. I suppose this won't be solved until Israel becomes an Arab majority sometime in the next 50 years. With an Arab PM and an Arab majority in the Knesset(almost typed Diet)things are likely to change radically from where we are today. Until then I am betting on the same as it has been for the last 50 years.

Israel's only option !
Dear Mona,

I agree with you that there should not be a two state solution . The approach should be one man one vote as in South Africa. Clearly South Africa is the only workable model. This pluralistic , multiethnic, and mutlireligious state of Israel will have to open up its borders to third world immigrants. Needless to say it will have to give up its nuclear arsenal.

This state of Israel will have to enact affirmative action laws which will compensate Palestinians for past discrimination. Lest I forget, there will have to be hate speech laws enacted
to suppress speech that Palestinians will deem offensive. Most important is that there will be no denial of Israeli genocide against the Palestinian population .
Young Israelis will be taught in school the evil of their fathers with no room for any questioning of the widely acknowledged facts. Mona , please note that I stated widely acknowledged facts , not proven or ever having been subjected to research by the " deniers" .

Karen
Because the US accepts refugees. The program you speak of is very modest...20 million dollars. In 2007, the US admitted 53,000 refugees from all over the world through its resettlement program and a very small percentage of those were from Palestine. It didn't even make the top 10. 19% of refugees came from Somalia, 15% from Laos, 12% from Cuba, 10% from Russia and on and on. Sorry there is just not this huge wave of Palestinians coming into the US.

Joseph
You are trying to be sarcastic, but you are 100% correct. The only solution would be a one-state solution...a secular, democratic, pluralistic state and South Africa is a excellent example where the white minority rights are in fact protected, and in this new state Jews who would be a minority would have to be given iron-clad protection for their political and civil rights.

The other way would be to pull out of the West Bank and Gaza and this would include Arab Jurusalem and wall themselves off from the Arabs, but who would clean their houses and do all the dirty jobs Israelis don't want to do...I guess import more Russians and Ethiopians.


Wiseone
akagi Says: "Many people smarter than you and I on this issue have been looking at it since 1948 and we are no closer to solving it now than we were then."

While Mona misses and so do you. I is not Obama making Israel submit. It is God making Obama submit by heardening his heart and that of the world towards Israel. When Israel is abandoned by all it will realize it still has one very powerful friend.

As was long foretold all the enemies of Israel will come against her. Those who once stood by her will do nothing to defend her.

God alone will save Israel and destroy her enemies.

I think it's rather presumptious - when looking at the feeble attempts to dictate to Israel - to assume that you can dictate to Israel.

Historically Israel has always acted alone, and without other nations permission when she destroyed her enemies.

This will be no different.




Akagi
If you moved to a neighborhood where you were unwanted by your neighbors for whatever reason, and nothing you could do short of moving away would get your neighbors to accept your presence and let you live your life in peace, and they wanted to drive you out by doing such things as vandalizing your house or other activities, you'd have one of two choices: either clear out or stay there and have to do whatever was necessary for you to be able to continue to live in the neighborhood.

The Jews are NOT going to clear out of Israel by choice - because as way too many centuries of painful world history (for them) have shown, there's no other neighborhood in the world where they could be reasonably assured of being allowed to live in peace for the foreseeable future.

Plenty of posters on this site have opined that the solution is simply to encourage the Jews in Israel to move to America, because supposedly here they wouldn't be subjected to the kind of Jew hatred they would get elsewhere in the world. Well, that may well be true - RIGHT NOW. But what happens in 50 years?

If the world hates Israel because of the insistence of its Jews that they will stay there come what may, the world has only itself to blame for this intrasigence. I don't blame Israeli Jews at all for having reached the conclusion that if they're going to die, they might as well die for their OWN country, not SOMEONE ELSE'S.

When we last discussed this topic, you actually suggested that Obama should order the use of American nukes against Israel to prevent Israel from employing the "Samson option" if events unfolded such that it looks like Israel just might exercise this if it was hit by a nuke.

If Israel turned to this strategy and nuked Mecca and Medina as part of the "Samson option", which I believe it would as part of that, it would be really funny to watch the Muslim world blame OBAMA for it, as it would believe Israel acted under America's orders.

Akagi
You really are a piece of work.

First, you completely dodged my rebuttal of your response to Don.

Second, you tell me there is no solution, that people "smarter" than you and me have tried (speak for yourself, please), before proceeding to detail your own solution (are you competing with the other trolls this week to see who can twist logic into the best knot?).

Then, in your solution, you equate Hamas and Hezbollah with the Likud.

Tell me, how many wars has Likud started? How many suicide bombers has Likud indoctrinated, funded, and sent to murder innocent civilians.

Do you know that one methos used by Hamas and Hezbollah to 'recruit' Arab women to become suicide bombers is to 'catch' them committing some mortal sin, such as adultery (as defined and 'witnessed' by muslim males) and then offer to them that they can redeem their reputation and that of their family by becoming a suicide bomber and dying for Allah in the jihad against Israel?

You are just like Taft; a useful idiot of an abominable culture.

Don
"Israel WAS going to be attacked by multiple countries."

A great deal of debate on this. And Israel wasn't going to be immediately attacked, most of Egypt's army was far from Israeli's borders and Nasser was not going to attack Israel with what he had in the neighborhood.

"What is a "Palistinian land?" Do you not recognize LON/UN/British actions in this matter."

I do not recognize any colonial power's rights to give land it does not legally own to anyone. While the British Empire had the LON mandate, it had no right to create states out of it in Palestine or in Uganda. If it wanted to create a Jewish State, fine, but it should have done so in say the north of England.

Gaza and the West Bank and the Golan Heights (as well as a good part of Israel proper today) were never part of the land agreed to be the Jewish State and while the land it took in 1948 have been accepted as part of Israel by the world community, the West Bank and Gaza and the Golan never have been. Israel is no more legally occupying these territories than Indonesia was in its occupation of East Timor or China's occupation of Tibet or Nazi Germany's occupation of Poland.

Akagi, fool
Ahhh. So refreshing that you have the solution: paper commitments and guarrantees for rights and all the rest.

How about this proposal: you give me the deed to your house and land, and then I'll move in a bunch of thugs and gang members to live alongside you, your spouse, and your children. But before crip nation -- or better, Gitmo detainees -- are moved in, they'll sign an agreement to live in peace on their newfound property.

You're a complete fool, devoid of all reason and sense. I wish you could move away from us sane people and you could believe all the bullcrap you wanted...and then be shocked when it didn't work out as well as you anticipated -- except it only ends in your death and not ours or other innocents.

And why don't you at least check on your facts, idiot. How well are the whites doing in South Africa these days? They safe, are they? Nice job.

Israel's Doomsday Machine
Rhetoric is fine - but at the end of the day the U.S. is not going to force Israel to destroy itself. Why? Those nuclear weapons the Israeli's have - yes, they can be use to nuke the followers of Allah if they ever try to poor over the Israeli borders but they have another use. If the West ever allowed Israel to go under, the Israeli's, in a final flipping of the middle finger, would pop their nukes into every oil field in the Middle East. Poof - in one afternoon the economy of every industrialized nation is gutted and set back a century. Imagine the social, political, and business consequences here if that came to pass.

Akagi is a big fat liar
If Akagi were -- we can only hope -- thrown out of this country and forced to live in one country in the Middle East, why do I think he would beg and plead to be sent to Israel, not the West Bank or Gaza? You're so smart and have so many erroneous facts at your fingertips, but you're a liar and hypocrit. There's no hope for a person like you, who has no problem ignoring the obvious while seeking sophisms to explain how we all have it wrong. Nice. Everyone knows what's going on there, your distortions aside. You would have us shut our eyes to reality in favor of your insanity. How about it? How about go and live for 60 days in any one of the countries you're defending, smarty?

Akagi, where would you live, tough-smart guy?

sky
I'm not sure what you think I'm saying because there were a couple of typos in your post. Please get this straight. I have said I would take the cuffs off of Israel. That means I agree that we shouldn't dictate to Israel what they can do.

As best as I can understand you, you are telling me that it doesn't matter what the US does; that Israel is a 500 pound gorilla and will do whatever it wants.

While I agree with this in principle, the truth is that the Bush Administration reined in Israel when Israel retaliated to the attacks I discussed (I was very disappointed in Bush for this). I don't pretend to know what manner of persuasion Bush and Rice used. I only know that, for whatever reason (probably billions in foreign aid) the US does have significant influence over Israel.

Please take my recommendation of "taking the cuffs off" within that context.

Standing
"Plenty of posters on this site have opined that the solution is simply to encourage the Jews in Israel to move to America, because supposedly here they wouldn't be subjected to the kind of Jew hatred they would get elsewhere in the world. Well, that may well be true - RIGHT NOW. But what happens in 50 years?"

In 50 years, they will be a minority in Israel too. So at that point it is moot isn't it?

"When we last discussed this topic, you actually suggested that Obama should order the use of American nukes against Israel to prevent Israel from employing the "Samson option" if events unfolded such that it looks like Israel just might exercise this if it was hit by a nuke."

If the US knew that Israel was going to attack say Mecca, yes, the US should prevent that including regime change or using nuclear weapons against it.

Wiseone:

I am not saying that Likud uses the same tactics as Hamas, but if Likud was in Hamas shoes it may very well. Jewish "terrorists" employed women as snipers and other operatives during its war against the British Empire. No they didn't use suicide bombers, but that is a relativly new tactic which the LTTE developed first I believe. What I am saying that both Hamas and Likud are hard-liners and will never compromise. Of course, no major political party is going to promote the end to Israel as a Jewish state. This won't change until the demographics force it to change. Then the choice will be will the change be peaceful as Israel transforms from a Jewish majority, a Jewish state to a Arab majority or will Israel adopt a system like South Africa to hold on to power? Few of us will be around here when that transition happens.



Akagi,You Pseudointellectual Bore:
Don't pull that "Arabs are Semites too" trick. You're a sneaky little twerp. I'm on to you.

Jewish Vote for Obama
In light of the continued blind substantial support of U S Jews for President Obama and the Democratic Party, one must conclude that they support their predictable policies which will in all likelihood lead to the downfall or destruction of the Nation of Israel. While I would personally not like to see that happen, I am not a Jew by birth or religion and would feel it necessary to defer to their desires for their nation. While many like me have supported the Independence and Prosperity of the Israeli nation, I feel that to oppose the desires of the large majority of American Jews is neither wise nor worthwhile and I must leave them to the results of their choices.

Akagi builds on a lie
Akagi and Taft have tried to poison this thread with the lie that Israel is responsible for the recent vilence in Gaza. Now Akagi builds on this lie.

In response to karen's concern about Palestinians being brought to the US, he writes,

"Because the US accepts refugees. The program you speak of is very modest...20 million dollars. In 2007, the US admitted 53,000 refugees from all over the world through its resettlement program and a very small percentage of those were from Palestine."

'Modest' compared to what, Akagi?

The "modest" program you're talking about assists 100,000 Palestinians from Gaza in resettling in the US. This is nearly twice as many as the 53,000 you cite from 2007 that we took from the entire world.

And of course this goes hand-in-hand with the $900 million reward Obama gave Hamas for starting a war with Israel. Why not also reward these same Palestinians who voted Hamas into power by letting them move to the US where they can promote radical Islam while siphoning off US welfare dollars?

Keep lying Akagi, and I'll keep telling other posters the truth behind your lies.

Akagi
No! What you are saying is not the case. The huge amount of Palestinians that were just recently accepted here was in the news last week. I can't remember how many....but in the hundred thousands. No one else wanted them...but I still say...so what? We have TOO MANY PEOPLE with hands out as it is. WE CAN'T AFFORD ANY MORE...Our country is in trouble if you haven't noticed. Enough already!

Jimbo
South Africa has a crime problem, but that effects blacks and whites and that is not a government program to unleash crime on the whites. The racist South African government let blacks live in poverty and did little to help them improve and few now can earn a decent living as a result crime is a problem.

Israel is going to be a Arab majority state no matter what. Once that happens you'll see movement on the Gaza and West Bank until them little except symbolic change is going to happen. As for the ME, you'd see little difference living in Bahrain than in Israel..sorry but the entire Middle East is not some sucking Islamic 8th Century hell. Bahrain even sells...gasp...beer! If I were to pick an "Islamic" country though, it'd be Malaysia even if they do use those awful simplified Chinese characters. Sorry, but Israel or anywhere in the Middle East isn't my kind of place. You can have it.

Wolfgang:

Yes and if it ever got close to that, the US should wipe it out before it got the chance to do that which is why the US was foolish for not stomping Israel's guts out when it first began down that road. If it can play hardball with the ROC and ROK, it could have done so with Israel.




Invitation to treachery?
The US certainly knows about every takeoff and landing in and around Israel. The question I am almost afraid to ask is this:

"Would Obama inform Iran about such an impending attack, which would result in the destruction of the heart of the Israeli air force?"

I do not trust Obama NOT to do so.

Akagi
You said, "If the US knew that Israel was going to attack say Mecca, yes, the US should prevent that including regime change or using nuclear weapons against it".

In the scenario I've postulated that would prompt the "Samson option", Israel has ALREADY been hit by one or more nukes before having taken any offensive action itself.

Suppose just for the sake of argument Israel doesn't announce beforehand, upon having been hit by one or more nukes, that it now IS going to employ the "Samson option". And in fact, I very seriously doubt that Israel would, in the event of being nuked, inform the U.S. government before taking any offensive action itself exactly what it intended to do. Or at least, it wouldn't tell the U.S. government in advance the full range of targets beforehand it planned to incinerate - including Mecca and Medina.

So in the scenario I've laid out, Israel has ALREADY been subjected to nuclear attack by its enemies before having taken any offensive action itself and the U.S. government could only GUESS that Israel would employ the "Samson option" in response, and that part of that option would include the incineration of Mecca and Medina.

So under THESE circumstances, would you STILL advocate America pre-emptively attack Israel simply because it THOUGHT Israel just MIGHT strike Mecca and Medina but didn't have any CERTAIN information beforehand that it was actually going to do this? Are you REALLY saying therefore that America should JOIN a nuclear attack on Israel?

And how do you think Americans would react to the use of America's nuclear weapons against a friendly country in support of another country - Saudi Arabia - that gave us 15 of the 19 9/11 terrorists? You don't think Obama would have absolute HELL to pay for ordering such a move?

Wiseone
Show us a US government statement that it plans to resettle 100,000 Palestinians in the US. I've seen calls from NGOs like Refugee International and claims from the usual nutcases on the Internet (e.g. worshippingchristian.org), but nothing from State saying this. Show us where the US has said this. Here is the actual text:

"Unexpected Urgent Refugee and Migration Needs Related To Gaza

Memorandum for the Secretary of State
By the authority vested in me by the Constitution and the laws of the United States, including section 2(c)(1) of the Migration and Refugee Assistance Act of 1962 (the ``Act''), as amended (22 U.S.C. 2601), I hereby determine, pursuant to section 2(c)(1) of the Act, that it is important to the national interest to furnish assistance under the Act in an amount not to exceed $20.3 million from the United States Emergency Refugee and Migration Assistance Fund for the purpose of meeting unexpected and urgent refugee and migration needs, including by contributions to international, governmental, and nongovernmental organizations and payment of administrative expenses of Bureau of Population, Refugees, and Migration of the Department of State, related to humanitarian needs of Palestinian refugees and conflict victims in Gaza."

Where does it say anything about 100,000 refugess?


Akagi
"I am not saying that Likud uses the same tactics as Hamas, but if Likud was in Hamas shoes it may very well."

I see. Likud is guilty, not because of what it does, but because of what you think "it might" do in a specific hypothetical circumstance.

You really are an @$$.

"Jewish "terrorists" employed women as snipers and other operatives during its war against the British Empire."

Was it a war? Did the "snipers" shoot at uniformed soldiers, or civilians? If they were shooting uniformed soldiers, they weren't "terrorists".

This is just another redefinition for the convenience of a liberal troll.

"No they didn't use suicide bombers, but that is a relativly new tactic which the LTTE developed first I believe."

In other words, correctly, the Likud is NOT "extreme" like Hamas and Hezbollah. But this truth sticks in your craw, so you invent a 'fact' so you can blame them for what your favored terrorist groups are doing.

BTW - the Japanese used suicide bombers, known as kamikazes, in WWII, several years before Israel was even created. So you can hardly claim this 'tactic' is new. Idiot.

"What I am saying that both Hamas and Likud are hard-liners ..." blah, blah, blah, etc., etc., etc., ad nauseum.

One question. Would you rather be a muslim living in Israel opposing the Likud or a Jew living in 'Palestine' opposing Hamas?

(BTW - there never has been any REAL nation of "Palestine". They are just muslims that hate Israel. It's all they have in common.)

Standing
"friendly country..."

Since when? Unless this is some warped version of friend. Do friends sell to potential enemies information on its advanced anti-missile system, help it develop cruise missiles and advanced fighters, advanced air-to-air missiles, and tried to sell PHALCON? Does it spy and then trade that information to a country sworn to destroy it's friend? Does it attack a ship it KNEW (despite the claims otherwise) belonged to the navy of its friend?

I didn't think so. With friend's like this, you don't need many enemies.

Actually I would be more concerned with them attacking the oil fields. Mecca (and Jerusalem and Bethlehem (yes I know who controls it) as far as that goes)can burn for all I care as long as the oil fields and the oil production/transportation infastructure remain intact.

But if Israel was going to do a preemtive strike on Mecca, I'd support doing anything to stop that attack.

Dhimmicruds' message since 1967
LBJ condemned Israel for defending herself in Six-day War and clobbering Egypt and others (who had done "proxy attacks" and shelling-incidents 1948-1967, and refused to acknowledge Israel's right to existence), while Clinton interfered with Israeli elections to ensure Ehud Barak would be in power (as Netanyahu WOULD NOT have made Israel a "long stretch of Shiliguri"*** for Arafat's false promises).

***reference to a narrow (30 km at narrowest) point of India's West Bengal state, between Nepal and Bangladesh's (1947-1971, East Pakistan) Titalaya Bulge (in Dinajpur District), which has caused (and continues to) many transport and security headaches for the nation since 1947.

Wiseone
" If they were shooting uniformed soldiers, they weren't "terrorists".

Glad we cleared that up. So if Al Qaeda kills American soldiers in Iraq, they aren't terrorists. When the IRA killed police and the military, they weren't terrorists, and when the PLO and others target members of the IDF, they aren't either. The Red Brigade? The kidnapping of James Dozier, he would have been a POW no...and they wouldn't be terrorists. And William F. Buckley killed in Lebanon by Islamic Holy War (actually Hezbollah) so they shouldn't be considered terrorists either.

And no I am not saying Likud and that Hamas are the same because of what Likud may do, I never even said they were the same. I said that a one-state solution would never been acceptable by the hardliners which Likud is or Hamas.

The Japanese did indeed use Kamikaze and there are examples earlier than this, but the use of bombs strapped to people as a weapon was developed basically by the LTTE and that tactic then was picked up by others like Hamas, Hezbollah, etc. So you can correctly give credit to the LTTE for this tactic. You might want to note the LTTE aren't Muslim either.

Obama's Signal to Israel
No one who followed Obama's career should be surprised at his position vis-a-vis Israel.
Just remember that his views were marinated in the Chicago swamp and his exposure to the Rev. Wright, Bill Ayers, Farrakan, Rashid Khalili. Additionally, some of his advisors, formal and informal were Susan Powers, Jimmy Carter, Susan Rice, Jim Jones to name a few - no friend of Israel. Of no small importance was the financial support of George Soros whose money was channeled to viciously anti-Israel organizations. His past associations are a forecast of his present and future actions.
Mona, we need your voice in the MSM.

Wiseone
Before 1783, there was never a country called the United States, before 1945 a country called Indonesia (actually it didn't become a formal country until 1949), Malaysia until 1957, Singapore not until 1963, East Timor not until 2002. There has never been a country called Taiwan either, think its desires for independence are then illegitimate? How about Tibet's?

There was never a modern state called Israel either until 1948. Just because there has never been a state called Palestine, doesn't mean it's people have no legitimate desire for self-determination.

David
No. But since the IDF would no doubt try to fly over Iraq, the US could simply force the IDF aircraft to land, if they refused, then the US would blow them out of the sky.


Akagi
In the "Samson option", I'm sure Israel WOULD attack the major Mid East oil fields; I certainly would if I were leading Israel and Israel had just been hit by one or more nukes and I decided to employ the "Samson option". It would be my going-away present to a world that had shown throughout centuries of history its utter indifference to the survival of the Jews

But you said that you'd support anything to stop an attack specifically on MECCA; you didn't say the same thing regarding an attack potentially on the Mid East oil fields and major oil production facilities.

You didn't answer the questions in the last paragraph of my previous post.

Do you REALLY think the U.S. military would actually carry out an order by Obama to use American nukes against Israel in the event that Israel was hit by nuclear weapons and the Obama Administration feared it would employ the "Samson option"? And even if Obama DID find some compliant officers and personnel in the U.S. armed forces to carry out the attack, I think he'd have a widespread uprising on his hands within the ranks of our military once they learned of the use of our nukes against Israel, given that the composition of our military is overwhelmingly of conservatives. And then Obama would have a mass rebellion to have to deal with in THIS country of people who would be INCENSED to be part of a country that joined a nuclear attack on Israel when it hadn't attacked US - and would show that anger to Obama in no uncertain terms. The only way after that, I believe, Obama could still remain president is to try to get the military to turn America into a totalitarian state - and if he tried to give such orders, THIS time the military WOULD turn on him.

svpallava
By the way, I saw your responses to me a few days ago when I had asked you about what you thought would happen with the situation going on right now in Pakistan, even though I wasn't in a position to be able to post anything in reply.

Thanks. I always learn something from your posts.

Akagi
Again, good points and good scholarship. I apologize for "Wiseone" being from Michigan (he may win the award for most wholly misnamed poster).
Joel the Oppressor shows up regularly claiming to be Special Forces, but it's pretty obvious the only green beret he owns came from an Army surplus store. He has some pretty scary genocide fantasies about Moslems, though.

Standshisground:
So, you're saying that in 50 years, our US will turn into a murdersous antisemite state? Well, YOU may have a low opinion of the US and its future, but some of here happen to love our country!

Operation Opera
For all the air raid hawks here, understand this. Iran learned much from the 1981 raid. Much of its nuclear program is dispersed, many key facilities are underground or hardened. An attack on Natanz (which is hardened) or Bushehr won't kill the Iranian nuclear program and would spark a violent response not only from the Arab and Islamic world, but the world at large. And the US again playing the role of protecting Israel from the scorn of the world by vetoing some strongly worded UNSC resolution.

Samson v. The 12th Imam


My beignets are on the Samson Option, which will vaporize Iran and the 12th Imam.

This Christian urges you learn about the two.


Go Bibi Go!

Akagi
From the Federal register:

[Federal Register: February 4, 2009 (Volume 74, Number 22)]

Unexpected Urgent Refugee and Migration Needs Related To Gaza

Memorandum for the Secretary of State

By the authority vested in me by the Constitution and the laws of the United States, including section 2(c)(1) of the Migration and Refugee Assistance Act of 1962 (the ``Act''), as amended (22 U.S.C. 2601), I hereby determine, pursuant to section 2(c)(1) of the Act, that it is important to the national interest to furnish assistance under the Act in an amount not to exceed $20.3 million from the United States Emergency Refugee and Migration Assistance Fund for the purpose of meeting unexpected and urgent refugee and migration needs, including by contributions to international, governmental, and nongovernmental organizations and payment of administrative expenses of Bureau of Population, Refugees, and Migration of the Department of State, related to humanitarian needs of Palestinian
refugees and conflict victims in Gaza.

You are authorized and directed to publish this memorandum in the Federal Register.

(Presidential Sig.)

THE WHITE HOUSE, Washington, January 27, 2009


And from Wyzbang (blog):

Posted by Kim Priestap
Published: February 7, 2009 - 3:01 PM

The "presidential determination" which allows hundreds of thousands of Palestinians with ties to Hamas to resettle in the United States was signed on January 27 and appeared in the Federal Register on February 4.

Few on Capitol Hill took note that the order provides a free ticket replete with housing and food allowances to individuals who have displayed their overwhelming support of the Islamic Resistance Movement (Hamas) in the parliamentary election of January 2006.


Obama and Israel
The Israeli people had better wake up. The Obama administration is Pro Arab and Pro Palestinian. Israel will be given no quarter from the US Government. Israel should concentrate on laying out it's situation to the world and it's right to self defense through preemptive actions. People of Israel, forget the Obama administration, and concentrate on doing what is best in the interest of Israel.

For Akagi the moron
"Terrorists" make war against civilians.

The proper name those who who shoot at uniformed American soldiers and are not affiliated with a sovereign nation in a declared war (or revolution) is "unlawful combatants".

If they don't wear uniforms or some other insignia that is identifiable from a distance, or if they use a 'sanctuary', such as a church or hospital, for cover from which to shoot, or if they take cover behind civilians, or fake surrender to gain tactical advantage, or carry on making war after having surrendered under the mercy of their captors, they are considered to be "spies" or "saboteurs" under the Geneva Convention and are subject to summary execution.

When they fight for an outlawed organization that is known to have attacked civilians (like al Qaeda) they are terrorists; every bit as much as the terrorists that flew planes into the WTC.

Just keep trying to redefine the words Akagi. I'll keep reminding you of their true meanings.

Idiot. Liar. Traitor.

Akagi
"There was never a modern state called Israel either until 1948. Just because there has never been a state called Palestine, doesn't mean it's people have no legitimate desire for self-determination."

Dodging the point again.

The complaint of the Palestinians against israel stems from their claim that Israel displaced them from "their" land in 1947. But in reality the "Palestinian" people have no legitimate claim to this land because Palstine did not exist as a nation in 1947.

Try, just once, to respond to the point and leave the red herrings for the fleeing slaves who need them.

WSJ reports today
that the O administration is making it more difficult for Israel to buy our top of the line jets. Just more of the same shame.

RW
For someone from Michigan, you sure don't seem to be very well-informed about the way things have been in Michigan in the not-too-distant past.

For your information, 4/6 of my immediate family, including both parents, was born in Detroit (my family is Jewish, by the by). And being Jewish, my grandparents and parents and their relatives experienced PLENTY of discrimination and prejudice against Jews there in the Detroit area. So strong anti-Jewish feeling isn't exactly an unknown commodity even in Michigan: how do you think much of the population of Dearborn feels about Jews these days?

So why therefore, especially given America's changing demographics, is it be so hard to imagine that in 50 years, America's population would be considerably less friendly to Jews than it is now - especially if by then Israel's Jews had abandoned Israel to live in America? I could very EASILY see pogroms at that time happening against Jews even in THIS country; like the white power structure did in the South during the days of Jim Crow, the power structure in America at that time would simply look the other way at the abuse and even murder of a minority, Jews, that had become disfavored by that point in this country. Where would the Jews in this country who might be looking to escape persecution they'd experienced even in the U.S. go THEN? And I very much doubt any OTHER country would be willing to set aside land in its own territory to be specifically a Jewish homeland.

My point is that the Jews should not trust the assurances of the world, even seemingly the most Jew-friendly parts of it, that it will help protect them if they make certain concessions to the Arabs around them. America, after all, COULD have taken in many of the Jewish refugees who were trying to flee Nazi Germany. Why didn't it? I'll tell you why: because at the time, anti-Semitism in America wasn't much weaker than it was in Europe - and it was plenty rife right there in Michigan.

Standing
The President of Iran doesn't control its nuclear program. He is nothing more than a figurehead. If the president ordered an attack on a target, I'd expect the US military to follow through. I don't see the military filled with people that will disobey their leadership by supporting a foreign country.

Iran has weapons of mass destruction now which it has not used on Israel or given to terrorists. So when it does get its first nuclear weapon if ever, it will be outnumbered 450 to 1.

This Sampson option is all Tom Clancey stuff. Iran isn't going to attack anyone (and it hasn't for over 100 years)and Israel isn't going to nuke Mecca and the oil fields. Might I add those that would support Israel nuking the oil fields are a bunch of treacherous snakes (and calling you snakes is an insult to the noble creatures that are snakes).

Wiseone:

Outside of a blog, find me an official statement the US plans to bring in 100,000 Palestinian refugees. Some idiot claiming that on a blog doesn't make it true.

Denise:

The president may indeed believe in the 12th Imam, but he doesn't control the nuclear program.

Alex:

"People of Israel, forget the Obama administration, and concentrate on doing what is best in the interest of Israel."

And since we have they not? Or was trying to sell PHALCON to China in the US interest or selling the Phython III or giving China information on Patriot, helping it develop the J-10?

and Iran is setting up
mobile missiles around it's sensitive nuke sites.

traitorbill
Well since Israel used American technology to sell China advanced air-to-air missiles (the Python III which was jointly developed with the US), helped it develop the J-10 based on the Lavi which the US helped Israel develop, since it sold information to China on the Patriot and then tried to sell it the PHALCON, I'd hope the US would think good and hard before selling Israel any more advanced weapons unless you want them to end up with the PLA.

Nobody paid attention
during the campaign. Obama had close associations with Rashid Khalidi, clearly not a pro-Israel person. In a debate, McCain said the U.S. would back Israel - period. Obama was more equivocal, saying something about supporting Israel's right to defend itself. But people were so charmed by him they didn't hear what he said. You get what you deserve.

Standshis
"Why didn't it? I'll tell you why: because at the time, anti-Semitism in America wasn't much weaker than it was in Europe - and it was plenty rife right there in Michigan."

This, sadly is very true, but we were nothing as bad as the Nazis, except for a few. And, interestingly, Iran took in many Jews. Have you heard of the Orphan trains?

And, I also agree, that anti semitism can wage its ugly head in the future, I see it already with the blind hate many have towards all Muslim people.

Wiseone
So if the British had created as they planned to the Jewish state in Uganda and the Maasai opposed it, and the Jewish settlers drove them off their land in Uganda, the Maasai would have no rights to claim the land they were driven from because there was no recognized country there? The US courts have recognized Indians claims as have Australian courts in regards to the Aborigines and New Zealand courts in regards to the Maori. Was there any recognized country in New Zealand or Australia before the Europeans? Was the Muscogee recognized as a country?

Kermud
What did Rashid do that is anti Israel? Obama always sides with Israel, too much probably, like in the 06 summer war against Lebanon and in Gaza.

Taft:CA
Speaking for the old President, Bush inherited 9/10 from Democrats and Liberals like you. And Bush inherited Wall Street from Democrats and Liberals like you who believe in equal outcomes for all people, instead of equal opportunities for all people. Sorry Taft:CA you just didn't learn about Liberty, Freedom, America, when you were in school, and I am truly sorry about that. But you are a truly a Smart Person and I would bet you are sorry that every one does not see the wisdom of being just like you.

Akagi, there is a solution...
...just most are too gutless to accept it as the ONLY solution.

Never in the history of human kind has any war ever ended with a mere "cease fire". Never. Not once.

Every war has always ended with one side pounding the other into submission.

THAT is what must be done.

The problem is that the anti-semitic sissies in the United Nations and here in the United States truly want the bloodbath in Israel to continue. Every bomb that detonates in an Israeli school yard fills bigots like Obama and his pals in New York City with unmatched glee.

If you REALLY wanted this conflict to end, you'd support Israel bombing the West Bank, Gaza Strip, Iran, Lebanon, Syria, and the rest of the Islamo-nutjobs seeking genocide until they've sustained so many losses that they unconditionally surrender.

Wars don't end when one side simply "feels bad" for the other, and decides not to respond to continued attacks. All that causes is the war to wage on in perpetuity.

A war ends after one side SLAUGHTERS the other, pillages their nation, and enslaves their women and children.

It is sad, but true. You need to SHATTER their will to fight. Only then will they be willing to submit to peace.

Let's put it this way: During World War II, the Japanese sustained hundreds of thousands of casualties, and yet they fought on. It was only after two of their cities were erased from existence with nuclear bombs that they even CONSIDERED ending the fighting. 60 years later, Japan is an ally of ours.

THAT is how you end a war!

Standing
"So why therefore, especially given America's changing demographics, is it be so hard to imagine that in 50 years, America's population would be considerably less friendly to Jews than it is now..."

Which is Hispanic, not Arab. Hispanics--mostly meaning Mexican--have some great hate for Jews that non-Hispanic whites don't?

"I could very EASILY see pogroms at that time happening against Jews even in THIS country; like the white power structure did in the South during the days of Jim Crow, the power structure in America at that time would simply look the other way at the abuse and even murder of a minority, Jews..."

So tell me how long have you had these paranoid fantasies?

Kermudjin

"In a debate, McCain said the U.S. would back Israel - period. Obama was more equivocal, saying something about supporting Israel's right to defend itself."

And Obama was right and McCain was wrong. McCain also thinks the US should support Georgia and the Ukraine...enough to go to war with a nuclear power over? Palin in an interview said Georgia should be in NATO and the US should agree to defend it against attack. Let's hope she was simply confused and didn't understand the question.




Eddie
Bush didn't "inherit" anything, that allowed us to be attacked on 9/11.

The FBI and the CIA made many mistakes, but so did Bush. The library have many histories of the events that led up to 9/11, and are worth reading.

Addenda for wiseone's 14:11
In fact, the very idea of "Palestinian" did not exist in the mind of any Arab (not even the ultra-ultra-warped one of part-Arab Haj-Amin Husseini) as a definition of nationality until 1920 (when France got Syria, and Britain the Holy Land by division-of-spoils of erstwhile Ottoman territory); indeed, Husseini had, till then, wished to incorporate the Holy Land into Syria (the Syrians DID NOT forget this, as evidenced by their attack on Israel in 1948--they invaded so that the Holy Land would be in THEIR hands instead of Egyptian or Jordanian).

Also, the word "Palestine" cannot be pronounced in Arabic as the language lacks the "P" sound (conventionally, the "B" is substituted--even as corroborated by a Pakistani pseudo-scholar--may have been unremorseful 1971-POW Siddiq Saliq, who was blown-up in 1988 by Aslam Beg--who complained in 1982 "Arabs call us 'Bakistan'")

And wiseone
The Arabs were displaced in 1948, not 1947.


Taft
"Bush didn't "inherit" anything, that allowed us to be attacked on 9/11."

All of the training and planning for that attack occured long before Bush took office.

I guess by your reasoning, Obama "didn't inherit anything" visa vis the economy, either. After all, he's certainly made enough mistakes on that front himself.

sv
Actually, doesn't the word Philistines go back to Canan?

Beowulfe
"Never in the history of human kind has any war ever ended with a mere "cease fire". Never. Not once."

Might you re-call how the Korean War ended? Also how the Chinese Civil War ended?

"A war ends after one side SLAUGHTERS the other, pillages their nation, and enslaves their women and children."

That didn't happen with the Russo-Japanese War or the First Sino-Japanese War.

"It was only after two of their cities were erased from existence with nuclear bombs..."

The Japanese cabinet hardly took notice to the attack on Nagasaki. What really caused Japan to surrender was the Soviet betrayal. With their invasion on August 9th, that ended all their plans on how to end the war without accepting unconditional surrender.

"Terrorists" make war against civilians."

Glad to know this Wiseone, the US then should register as a terrorist nation post haste.

Akagi
Regarding your response to St. Denis, if President Ahmadinejab is just a figurehead and someone whose public statements fantasizing about the destruction of Israel should not be taken seriously, then it's the responsibility of Iran's ruling MULLAHS to reign him in, NOT Israel's to ASSUME he shouldn't be taken seriously. As long as the mullahs allow him to be the public face of Iranian policy, Israel should have every reason to believe that Ahmadinejab's publicly-stated desires reflect those of the mullahs also.

I only partially agree with you about the "Samson option". I don't think Israel would employ it if it WASN'T attacked, or thought it was ABOUT TO BE, by nuclear weapons. My invoking of it in our discussion presupposed that in fact Israel already HAD been hit by nuclear weapons.

And I still stand by my guns that if Obama orders a pre-emptive nuclear attack on Israel that's actually carried out by willing elements of our military out of fear of Israel turning to the "Samson option" in the wake of a nuclear strike that's ALREADY struck Israel, Obama is going to face a backlash both from within the military and from the American populace as a whole that you can't even IMAGINE! For Americans to wake up one morning to the reality that THEIR government has joined with MUSLIMS in a nuclear attack on a country that hadn't even attacked US or was even threatening to would be much too much for tens of millions of us to accept silently. And how do you propose that the Obama Administration would justify this action afterward to the American people: that we acted to SAVE MECCA?! And can you imagine how Obama's sycophantic press would be able to spin this in any way that could positively reflect upon the Obama Administration? And how could Democrats in Congress who have lectured us for years on the immorality of nuclear weapons be able to defend their use by one of their OWN against a country that hadn't even threatened us?

Akagi
"Might you re-call how the Korean War ended?"

Oh, yeah, GREAT example! THAT'S why we have 35,000 troops on the DMZ right now, and why one of the greatest fears of international relations experts is North Korea getting a nuke! Because the war "ended"! I see!

"Glad to know this Wiseone, the US then should register as a terrorist nation post haste."

So when did we start attacking civilians? That civilian casualties happen doesn't mean we attacked them.

One of the things I always remind nutbag anti-Semites like yourself is this:

The difference between the Israelis (and the pre-Obama coup United States, for that matter) and Hamas terrorists is simple:

When the Israelis fire a rocket and it results in civilian casualties, they describe that as "collateral damage".

When Hamas fires a rocket and it results in civilian casualties, Hamas describes it as "direct hit".

THAT, kiddo, is the clearest, no-BS difference between terrorists and non-terrorists.

Beowulfe
" It was only after two of their cities were erased from existence with nuclear bombs that they even CONSIDERED ending the fighting."

100%, totally false. Japan had for months been sending missions to Moscow in an effort to get the Soviets to intercede on its behalf with the Americans to end the war. Moscow pretended to be interested, but had no intent to help Japan in ending the war. What Stalin wanted was to keep the war going at least until he could enter and take what he wanted (Manchukuo, Korea, the Chinese Far Eastern Railway, the Kurils, including the northern territories, Sakhalin and perhaps even getting Hokkaido amd parts of Honshu and a occupation zone in Tokyo). His great fear was the war was going to end before he could get in. He also had to find a way to enter the war and not be seen as breaking the non-Aggression Pact just as Hitler had broke thiers that would not expire until 1946. he used the excuse on August 8 of preserving world peace and invaded the next day on the 9th.


Submit: The Same message as Islam

Islam means, ‘Submission.’

The stooge Bush stupidly claimed it translated as ‘peace.’

Akagi
I never said that the pogroms I could envision 50 years down the road in this country against Jews in this country who had abandoned Israel to come to the U.S. would be carried out by GOVERNMENT authorities; like with the lynchings of blacks in the old South, they would be done by mobs of private citizens incited by inflammatory leaders - and the power structure in place would look the other way just like it did with the lynching of blacks long ago in the South.

Regarding segments of the population who would turn anti-Jewish: why is there such hatred of Jews in BLACK America, especially among many of its leaders? What have JEWS ever done to blacks in THIS country to stir such enmity - other than become successful? Some black leaders have actually told blacks that AIDS was invented and foisted upon black Americans by Jewish doctors!

I could easily believe the same mentality could develop in the Hispanic community over time; if the Jews abandoned Israel for America, I'd expect them to become successful in this country, just like Jews have managed to be successful everywhere ELSE they've ever lived even in the face of overwhelming hostility. And that success would rub those who haven't quite so successful the wrong way. Today it's blacks, tomorrow it could easily be Hispanics. I could very easily see Hispanic leaders scapegoating Jews for all the perceived problems and dysfunctions in their community in the future in just the same way black leaders do today - especially since I believe most leaders in the Hispanic community are cut from fundamentally the same bolt of cloth as we see in leaders of black America. Bottom line, they're all liberal Democrats - and therefore THINK like liberal Democrats. Meaning, they don't think AT ALL, they only EMOTE!

Standshisground
So you are honestly saying (with a fanatical gleam in your eyes) that Jews will soon be more in danger here in the US than they will be in a tiny, illogical patch of desert surround by millions of square miles full of people that hate them?

Maybe you and "Wiseone" should both take your America-hating propaganda back home to Huffpost or Kos or wherever you came from.

America needs more Jews.


Akagi
"Japan had for months been sending missions to Moscow in an effort to get the Soviets to intercede on its behalf with the Americans to end the war."

So what you are saying is not only are you an anti-Semite, you also think that all Japanese people are morons, right? If Japan wanted peace, they could have signed the peace treaty BEFORE two of their cities were flatened.

Instead, they signed the peace treaty WITH THE UNITED STATES (not Stalin) 6 days after we exterminated 250,000 of their people in Nagasake and Hiroshima.

I'm sure that the betrayal of Stalin also influence that, but to say that the instant vaporization of a quarter million of their people had nothing to do with it is utter nonsense.

The name
The name may also come from the Phoenicians, but they are a mix of many many peoples in addition to the Phoenicians...Canaanites, Philistines, Egyptians, Idumaeans, Nabateans, Samaritans, Romans, Greeks, Turks, etc. Just as today there is little relationship between the Jews of the first century a.d. and those living in Israel today.

Obama and the UN slugs
The two state solution proposed for Israel and the Palestinians is a hoax. Obama and UN would like nothing better than for Israel to disappear. The two state solution will give Obama and UN an excuse to finance Palestinians with so-called humanitarian aid, which in reality will be used to purchase weapons to destroy Israel. Clueless American Jews that voted for this illegal leader of our country still can't comprehend his real intention for the future of Israel.

Knesset Moron Alienates Catholics !


How To Win Friends and Influence People !

"We're talking about the pope, who is also a representative of the Holy See, which has a lot to ask forgiveness from our people for," Knesset Speaker Reuven Rivlin said during an interview on Israel Radio on Tuesday. "And he is also a German, whose country and people have asked forgiveness. But he himself comes and speaks to us like a historian, as an observer, as a man who expresses his opinion about things that should never happen, and he was - what can you do? - a part of them."

Israeli Leader Plays The Victimhood Card Again !
Now, Alienate Conservative Catholics ,You Imbecile !

Beowulfe--Japan
The cabinet was told right after Hiroshima that the it was an atomic bomb (by their own nuclear scientists who were working on their own bomb and were decades away from getting one)and the Americans may have a 100 or more of them. The cabinet expected more attacks and they were proved right on August 9 with Nagasaki was destroyed. The cabinet hardly even noticed that attack. You might recall the deaths at Tokyo in March were about the same as the nuclear attacks, so they weren't as devestating as you think. While the bombs did give the Peace Party momentum, they weren't as decisive as you and most Americans think.

The Soviet invasion destroyed their whole matrix on how to end the war with the best possible outcome for Japan. The final order formally ending the war was the order to the Kwantung Army to cease all operations on August 20, 1945 and that doesn't even mention the bombs at all, just the Soviet invasion.

Could the bombs alone have caused Japan to surrender, perhaps, but those two alone did not. If the US had dropped 4, 5 6 bombs? Perhaps, but just two...no, they did not cause Japan to end the war.

As for why didn't Japan surrender to the Americans instead of trying to get the Soviet help, well, if the Americans had made it clear it had no intention of touching the emperor, perhaps they would have. The reason for the Kyushu plan and then the Soviets to come in to intercede and help end the war was an effort to save the imperial system...the paramount issue for Japan and then Americans ended up doing that anyway, so why didn't they make those intentions clear at Potsdam?


RW
You said, "America needs more Jews".

You and I are actually agreed on something! However, think Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton and Louis Farakkhan and many other black leaders like them would agree with you on your statement?

And WHEN did I ever say or even imply that "Jews will soon be more in danger here in the US than they will be in a tiny, illogical patch of desert surround by millions of square miles full of people that hate them"?

What I've been saying is that for those who think that Israel's Jews should simply abandon Israel and come to America and then could live the kind of peaceful lives here in the U.S. ever after that their Mid East neighbors are presently denying them, world history has shown that NO place in the world seems to stay very "peaceful" toward Jews for very long. I never said that in 50 years Jews would be MORE in danger here in the U.S. than they presently are in the Middle East, just that in 50 years a lot of the advantages they think they gained by abandoning Israel for the United States may very well evaporate. And world history has shown that such an hypothesis is ANYTHING but a stretch.

Preston
I support Israel also. Israel is nothing but a stepping stone to a complete takeover of that area and as much of Europe as possible. Iran needs to be stopped and I think Israel has the will and certainly the provocation of the Iranian thug to make the charge.

Beowulfe
And how am I am anti-Semite?

As for the 35,000 troops not even germane. The war ended in a stalemate as neither the UN coalition nor the DPRK-PRC-USSR Coalition could achieve a military solution, the war ended with a cease-fire and currently is still formally on-going as is the Chinese Civil War I might add. You can add others as well, the Croatia-Serbian war where again neither side could achieve victory on the battlefield and the Serbs agreed to stop the war.

As for the US not being terrorists, pro-Southerners who recall Vicksburg, the March to the Sea, Sheridan's Valley campaign, Montgomery's Raid on Darien, Sherman's burning of Columbia, the burning of the University of Alabama and the like would disagree. Many American Indians would disagree too as would what the US did in the Philippines in 1898-1901 or so. I'm sure I could find others as well if I thought long enough on it.

Check Bible Taft
Philistines were Hamites (archaeologists actually have concluded most similar to Nilotics such as Luo or Tusi), not Semites which Arabs (including "Palestinians" descendants of Edomites/Amalekites) are.

Careful Don (15:30)
Terming Useless Numpties "slugs" insults molluscs.

Reply to the "Arabic expert"
WAY Down South
Location: HI
Reply # 111
Date: May 12, 2009 - 3:05 PM EST Submit: The Same message as Islam
Islam means, ‘Submission.’
The stooge Bush stupidly claimed it translated as ‘peace.’
- - - - - -
Islam is derived from the Arabic root "Salema": peace, purity, submission and obedience...
As is typical in Arabic/Semitic languages which I have studied most of my life, a root word can branch into different meanings.

Be careful who you call a Stooge . . .

svpallava
Somehow I suspect that the Bible is NOT a book that IS, or ever HAS BEEN, on Taft's reading list.

Beowulfe
Also the Japanese signed a cease fire with both the United States and the Soviets. Why did August Storm end?

The Peace Treaty was not until 1951 which Japan signed with 48 other nations. Japan is still technically at war with Russia (the sucessor state to the USSR) over return of the four most southern islands in the Kurils: Etorofu-to; Kunashiri-to; Shikotan-to and Habomai-shoto. The Soviets agreed to return two of them in 1956 (Shikotan-to and Habomai-shoto), but Japan refused unless all four were returned. Today, all four are still occupied by Russia.



svpallava
But modern Palestinians are made up of Phoenicians, Canaanites, Philistines, Egyptians, Idumaeans, Nabateans, Samaritans, Romans, Greeks, Turks, Arabs, etc. Just as modern Israelis are made up of various groups many of which are from Europe, so pretty mindless to start claiming this group is purely all this or all that.

Standing:

I've read it, I've read Homer too. I use neither as my authoritative guide on anything.


Don
"The two state solution will give Obama and UN an excuse to finance Palestinians with so-called humanitarian aid, which in reality will be used to purchase weapons to destroy Israel."

Yes. Obama is going to sell Hamas and Hezbollah F16s and train them to fly it, give in nuclear weapons and the like so it will be on par with Israel.

mimi
Isn't the Middle East already majority Muslim? And tell us when the last time Iran attacked another country first? 19th century sometime.


Akagi
So you say you've read the Bible but don't use it as an authoritative guide on anything.

NO KIDDING! Gee, I would never have figured THAT out from your posts if you hadn't told me!

By the way, you still haven't tried answering my questions about what would happen in the aftermath of an Obama-ordered nuclear attack on Israel if Obama seriously thought that, after being hit by one or more nuclear bombs, Israel would activate the "Samson option", and that part of that option was the nuking of Mecca. I'll re-pose them to you:

1) How would the Obama Administration explain its action to the American people regarding why it JOINED a nuclear attack by MUSLIMS upon a state that hadn't attacked, or even was THREATENING to attack, America? Would it dare to say it did so primarily to SAVE MECCA?!

2) And as a corollary to 1), wouldn't the Democrats FOREVER lose ANY basis whatsoever for being able ever after to cudgel George Bush for launching a supposedly pre-emptive war upon a nation that supposedly was no threat to us - Iraq - when one of THEIR OWN has used NUKES in the very same way?

3) How would Obama's sycophantic press be able to spin Obama's action in ANY way that could POSSIBLY reflect well upon him or even to be able to deflect criticism away from him?

4) How could Democrats/liberals hereafter EVER be able to talk with ANY credibility about the evils of nuclear weapons and their use when one of THEIR OWN has pushed the nuclear button?

5) Do you think that tens of millions of Americans WOULDN'T rise up in VERY angry protest - or worse - upon discovering that their government is guilty of a pre-emptive nuclear attack upon the very land in which Christ walked?

6) Do you think that the vast majority of America's military - and especially its officer corps - would still stay submissive to Obama after he had ordered such an action?

Dare to venture an answer to any of these questions?

the Palestinian question
This question of whether the Palestinians collectively have a right to a state is one of these absurd arguments that show how little actual principle is involved in which side people take on dealing with the middle east. After all the issue for anyone who believes in individual rights should be who cares.

It is really not a concern of mine whether the Palestinians who live in what used to be the mandate of Palestine or could equally be called Greater Israel have a distinct state or not. If Israel wants there to be one state there with everyone living there a citizen of that country, it wouldn't make everyone happy (in fact it wouldn't make anyone happy) but at least it would be something one could honestly call a peace situation.

But the Israelis don't want that, that means they want either to occupy other people while hoping other people are willing to pretend this is an acceptable situation, or they need to work towards a situation in which those territories are not under their control.

But if they are not going to integrate the Palestinians into the Israeli state, and they are not and that is their business, then they do not get to tell the people they are excluding from their state what kind of state they should be.

Those are basic principles that Americans should understand, because they are basic to our understanding of the world. They are the principles that our country was founded on (at least once we got over the indefensible slavery tradition).

The people who are arguing that it makes a difference whether the Palestinians count as a people or have a history of a country, are misunderstanding what the essence of being an American is. Or more accurately, they are not really acting on principle. They are simply not bothered by treating the Palestinians as subhuman and are willing to grab onto any pseudo principle that can help them pretend they are doing something different.

Standing
Well since the chance that Israel will attack Mecca is pretty slim and the chance that another country will use nuclear weapons on Israel is pretty slim, the whole exercise is pretty foolish.

But he could use the Stalin excuse when he atatcked Japan, that preventing Israel from attacking Mecca was in for the preservation of peace. The others same, it eas done in order to preserve world peace as the US had on good evidence Israel was about to ignite a Holy War on the Muslim world and perhaps deny the western world oil by attacking the oil fields, thus for the greater good, Israel had to be stopped once and for all. It is regretable about the loss of life, but it is felt that the attacks actually saved lives which would have been lost if we did nothing. See how easy that is?

"Do you think that tens of millions of Americans WOULDN'T rise up in VERY angry protest - or worse - upon discovering that their government is guilty of a pre-emptive nuclear attack upon the very land in which Christ walked?"

Muslims would be made too...maybe the US should just kim 'em all and that way, no problems and the US would have a good chunk of the oil resources.

Lon
"But if they are not going to integrate the Palestinians into the Israeli state, and they are not and that is their business..."

The world dropped that attitude after the Nazis. What goes on in other countries can be the world's business. What China does in Tibet and what Indonesia did in East Timor and what Israel does in Gaza is the world's concern.

Akagi
You're right on mostly muslim. Let Isralis live in peace,Bully! You seem to have a lot of time to sit around and spread propaganda. Get a life!
You must be financed by ACORN.

lon the loon
another troll who thinks that after 60 years of proving again and again they are amongst the most barbaric people on the planet, the palestineans have yet to prove they can live in peace with each other let alone other people

Loon seems to think that we can't support israel because of our one time history of having had slavery in this country.

But when have the other muzzie countries ever done anything for these barbarians except supply them with weapons to kill the israelis'

While led by the closet faygut yassir who along with his thug pals pocketed billions the world gave to help these people build homes and infrastructure, the lefties still maintain these barbarians can live in peace.

And now the muzzie lover posing as president is willing to outdo jimmah cahtah in his efforts to betray israel to placate their muzzie masters.

Yet lon the loon like other lefties continues to live in his fantasy world where america is always the enemy of the world.

But Lon the loon you may one day get your wish, your messiah after betraying israel will also allow the terrorists to take over lebanon, iraq and afghanistan.

Seems the messiah only understands that iran should dominate that part of the world and will help them accomplish that goal.

B hussein obamarxist remains hugely popular amongst the muzzies and for the simple reason they fully believe he is one of them.

You lefties went ballistic whenever anyone from the right referred to your messiah by his middle name during the presidential campaign but it seems that flap ears proudly proclaims his muzzie ancestry by constantly using his middle name these days.

The bow to the saudi's was just his first public admission he supports the muzzies and will betray the israelis much to the delight of the left

Translated into ...
...plain English and considering the reality of Israel's situation, this administration's message to Israel isn't "Submit". In fact, the message is "Die". The situation for Israel and its people isn't the same as for the Arab nations and groups which surround it. If the Arabs agree to let Israel and its people alone, i.e., no more attacks by missile or suicide bomber, no Arabs are killed by Israel as a result. If the Israelis agree to the terms being urged upon them by the present American government, the Arabs will kill them all. Quite simple, really. And the administration's position is quite indefensible, really.

Akagi
I think the chance of Obama ordering the use of nuclear weapons on Israel to forestall the possibility of it employing a "Samson option" that could involve the nuking of Mecca is much more remote than the possibility of Israel's enemies actually using nukes on Israeli soil. I never said the latter would necessarily be done as a DIRECT attack by a government, like Iran's: I think the likeliest way would be for a nuke to be slipped into Israel by terrorists - although I believe hostile governments would abet those terrorists in this. But HOWEVER it happened or WHOEVER was responsible, if a nuke ever explodes on Israel's soil, I think Israel WILL employ the "Samson option", and that it WILL include the nuking of Mecca and Medina and all the major Mid East oil fields; what's to stop Israel from NOT doing so by then, fear of offending world opinion or its neighbors' sensitivies? By then, Israel, or what's left of it, would be beyond caring about EITHER.

I don't give Obama high marks for good decision-making, but for him to nuke Israel to try to prevent the possible nuking of Mecca would be the biggest gamble I think any American president has EVER taken - and one that would not only blow up in his face but blow him right out of office, one way or another. And that's why I think he would ultimately not order it.

Bringing up Stalin and the possible worldwide inflaming of Muslims against the United States in the event of the nuking of Mecca are very poor illustrations. Remember, Stalin was a DICTATOR, so neither he nor his party, the Communist Party, had an electorate to answer to for ANYTHING they did. And the opinion of the Muslim world doesn't register at the American ballot box, whereas the opinion of American citizens DOES. Pacifying Muslims all over the world by a pre-emptive nuking of Israel will be paltry consolation to Democrats if such an action by Obama promptly ousts Dems from power in Washington DC - for possibly a LONG time.

KJ

It doesn’t matter how many times people like you attempt to infer otherwise, Islam means “Submission” or “Surrender.”

More precisely, it means submission or surrender to God in all things. Only when one submits to God in all things can one find true inner peace.

My sources are writers such as Bat Ye’or, Robert Spencer, and Serge Trifkovic.

Your attempt to dismiss my post by sarcastically calling me “Arabic expert” is typical of Islamic apologists like Esposito and Armstrong.

Bush is a stooge and Islam is not “a religion of peace.”

Iran’s Nuke Program Threatens the Region

This includes Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, and other countries.

Many states in the Middle East want Iran’s nuclear weapon’s program castrated.

The fact that they hate the existence of the State of Israel is largely irrelevant to this issue.

These states would quietly cheer Israel on if she decided to strike. Of course, they would publicly denounce her for doing so.

Iranian nukes do not just pose an existential threat to the State of Israel.

Cactus
"But when have the other muzzie countries ever done anything for these barbarians except supply them with weapons to kill the israelis..."

Not unlike the US supplying Israel with F15s and AH-64s

"will also allow the terrorists to take over lebanon, iraq and afghanistan...."

Like under Reagan? Bush 41? Bush 43?


U.S. National InterestsTrump All Of Them

U.S. National Interests in The ME ,include ,right now,brokering an Israeli/Palestinian Peace and a Palestinian State.
The U.S. is Not about to allow Anybody to Lob a Nuke at Anybody.
We have 14 Brigades in Iraq,at the moment ,and a Total of 140,000 Troops.
And Nobody is gonna Lob anything over them in Iraq.

We're gonna soon have 55,000 U.S. Troops in Afghanistan,next to Iran , and Nobody is Gonna Be allowed to Lob anything before a Lethal U.S. Pre-emptive assault,squashes them.


Akagi
is the guest who just will not leave. He is a bore who is totally clueless that when he speaks people's eyes glaze over and their minds wander.

Aka's tactic is to overwhelm his posts with extraneous "facts", misinformation and disinformation ad nauseum.

The little pompous twit perks up whenever Israel is mentioned and proceeds to post frenetically. What is the pseudointellectual's agenda, I wonder?

All You Michiganders
You have other things to worry about than Israel, don't you? Like GM going buh-bye?

End Of Times ? Perhaps.

Hmm? Armageddon. End of times. Everything coming together.

Does anyone see anything wrong here?

Of course. Some do.

What can be done?

Just re-affirm your faith in God as this has all been spelled out.

Read the book of Revelation.

I do not tell anyone what to do, I suggest what you might do.

Except for this last...


And, Pray.


I fully believe we are seeing the end of times.



Read
"Read the book of Revelation."

A book written nearly 100 years after Christ birth, which was not part of the Bible for hundreds of years and was removed from Jefferson's Bible in which he considered it to be the ravings of a lunatic.

Keep pounding Akagi
Let's find Akagi employed by ACORN. I think he picks up his check in New Orleans, LA. One of my favorite talk show hosts is working on that theory. Follow the money trail and we'll all know why these local yokles have such a dedication to the muslim cause. Israel stand up and fight!

NOLA
A talk show host says I work in NOLA? Who would that be?

Ratas y Ratones
When Obama was first elected, I tended to pooh-pooh the suggestions of many Christians who thought that his election SURELY heralded the advent of the end times. I don't dismiss such sentiments anymore.

There's SO MANY things I've seen in the time Obama's been president that fits very well into what I've long believed about what we would see that would signal the advent of the AntiChrist is close upon us.

Believing as I do in a pre-Tribulational Rapture (I can't give you an absolute case on why the Bible says the Rapture MUST be pre-Tribulational, it's just something I believe based on certain beliefs but by no means am inflexibly dogmatic about), I believe that Christians alive right this very moment won't have to experience the worst of the Tribulation. In fact, if the advent of the AntiChrist is shortly upon us, I HOPE the Rapture comes before: as Hal Lindsay said in his original "The Late Great Planet Earth" book 30 years ago, "there will be no earthly advantage to being alive when the AntiChrist rules", and I personally would NOT want to be around to see that time, as it would make the worst that Stalin and Hitler EVER did look like a Girl Scout Jamboree by comparison.

Of course, our keen Bible scholar Akagi seems to think that Thomas Jefferson's opinion on the Book of Revelations is more authoritative than that book itself; such is the mindset of the perishing (I Cor. 1:18).

Who cares
about Israel? why are they so special?????


Who cares about Israel?
You should. You could be the next victim. People everywhere should live where they are not threatened everyday by terrorist thugs!

tyler the troll
we realize you have more important things on your mind.

Prostrating yourself before your rock star loser posing as president.

And I am sure you are busy making arrangements for your coming nuptials with the man of your dreams

Sickening
As a politically conservative Jew, the fact that Obama received 78% of the Jewish vote has convinced me forever that there is no hope for the majority of the Jewish electorate in this country.
I wonder if these fools will be able to look themselves in the mirror again if Israel is detroyed partly as a result of their stupidity in putting into power a man who obviously is and never has been a friend of Israel or the Jews.

cactus head
Thanks for making Tyler miserable just like he wants to make the rest of us feel the pain if we don't bow down to Obama and his regime. Cactus spines in flesh can be very miserable and difficult to extricate.

sickening
Well put. We pull for them and then they don't help themselves. They have a history of denying where the strength lies.

GPC007
As a politically conservative Christian who is by birth a Jew, I can only conclude from the overwhelming percentage of the Jewish vote Obama got last year in spite of his CLEAR record of antipathy toward Israel and sympathy for its enemies, that many more American Jews than not have much more of a heart for liberal principles than for the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. What do you think?

I have not yet met a real Liberal...
Who did not Hate Israel with passion. And wish it and the Jewish people the very worst - to be wiped clean from the Earth.

Considering Liberal passions, Israel should trust Obama as it trusts Hamas.


Now the why. Why do Liberals etal Hate Israel?

One inlaw put it this way, "Those bastards think their sons could be Jesus Christ, and they treat them (their sons) like ****ing God's gifts!"

Which means...

Liberals Hate Israel for the same reason they Hate all mankind.

And that is: Pathological Envy. The unending wish to destroy that which one believes they deserve, but another possesses.

The exact opposite of Christianity.





jewish sentiment
Their liberal sympathy is misplaced. They still feel like underdogs with no reason to feel so. They have accomplished many great things. My Christian beliefs are backed up by the same God. I can't figure out their polical thinking.

Who cares about Israel?
What makes them better than any other nation?

I don't have anything against them. I just don't think they are better than anyone else.

Beyond that, who cares?

People
Do you care about South Africa? Probably not...

So why do you care so much about Israel?

Do you care about Peru? I doubt it...

I ask again, why do you care so much about Israel?

Carlos,U.S. Problems With Israel !
We have No Written Alliance With Israel.

Beyond that ,there are Security Problems.

Israeli Spy Ben Ami Kadish just pleaded Guilty in December.
His handler from The Israeli Consulate in NYC was the same Handler Jonathan Pollard had.

Federal Prosecutors just dropped The AIPAC Espionage Trial Charges on Steven Rosen and Keith Weissman,due to worries of Classified Information being disclosed,Lawrence Franklin,who gave them the information got 12 years.

Israel Illegally sold U.S. Weapons Technology To The Red Chinese,jeopardizing U.S. Allies Taiwan and Japan.

Israeli Company Checkpoint had the same Security problems as Dubai Ports for Security Reasons in The Sourcefire Deal and C.F.I.U.S. forced them to scotch the deal.

There's more,but we'll leave it for now.

Many American Patriots have fallen off The Israeli Sled.

Many American Patriots don't trust them !


Tyler
What, do they put something funny in the lattes and mochas sold by Starbucks up there that turns the brains of Washingtonians into mush? Remind me to avoid that establishment when I'm up in Seattle in a couple of weeks.

You asked why we care so much about Israel as opposed to South Africa or Peru. Well, in case you never got beyond first-grade reading comprehension, the title of this column refers to ISRAEL - NOT Peru or South Africa. And if YOU don't care about Israel: then why did you come onto a thread whose subject matter is about that nation? Unless, of course, you're being PAID to clutter up this site.

Why does the WORLD care so much about Israel, or more generally, the Jews, or at least devote SPECIAL attention to them, given the fact that there has probably not been any people on this whole earth in the last 3,500 or so years which has suffered more abuse and persecution all over this planet than them?

Israel is a useful "canary in the mine" that shows us just where the state of liberalism really is at the moment.

Israel isn't better than anyone else, you say? Well, GOD says differently, because He made the JEWS the Chosen People and Israel the place of His special abiding on this earth - NOT Peru, NOT South Africa, not even America.

God also says that blessing - or cursing - from Him will flow from how one treats the seed of Abraham (Genesis, chapter 12) - and that seed, the seed of God's PROMISE anyway (to distinguish the seed of Abraham's dalliance with Hagar, which is NOT the seed of God's promise, from the seed of his marriage to Sarah, which IS) today has its own nation, Israel. You have an issue with that, take it up with God, and then report back here and tell us all how successfully you were able to argue the issue with Him.

Carlos, Good Point:
Lefties hate Israel with a passion. It's perplexing the way lefties align themselves with the lowest common denominator. It's as if excellence and achievement threaten them and they're more comfortable with the losers of the world.

tim
if you are concerned about selling technology to our enemies, as well as spying and treason, you dont need to look as far as israel. there are traitors aplenty right here in the usa. our own companies sell secret technology to the highest bidder, or any bidder, to say nothing of shipping our manufacturing overseas. the congress is full of traitors who give away national secrets, and clinton is well known, and loved by the democrats, for selling sensitive technology to china. dont blame israel for behaving like americans. when we hang a few thousand of our own traitors (i suggest we start with the traitor that revealed everything our enemies wanted to know about our interrogative methods), then and only then will it make sense to criticize any other nation for doing what our own politicians so love to do.

American Patriots Trump Israel Firsters

American Patriots Trump Liberal Agendists too.

For Conservative Patriots,this is about U.S. National Interests.

Israeli Firsters have different Priorities then America First Patriots.

Americans have been On To Certain Israel Firsters .




Trouble
Standshisground makes the ultimate point:

"Well, GOD says differently, because He made the JEWS the Chosen People and Israel the place of His special abiding on this earth - NOT Peru, NOT South Africa, not even America."

If you believe that claptrap, you're part of the fundamentalist problem plaguing the world today.

Frankly, you're no different from the Islamic jihadists. Basically, you believe that one set of people are literally better than another in the eyes of God and therefore nothing short of eradicating the Other will suffice.

It's a global sickness that must be dealt with or we will all kill each other.

Israel is only capable of doing what it does to the Palestinians because they consider them less than human.

curmudgeon !
Tell that to Israel Spy Jonathan Pollard.

Tell that to Israel Spy Ben Ami Kadish.

Tell that to Larry Franklin.

They're all Convicted and doin' Jail Time Courtesy of The United States.


as a long time supporter
of israel, as well as a conservative, and a christian atheist, i have had it with american jews. while i as a non-jew, actually non-anything, i support the right of the israelis to live in peace in their own country, just as i would like to live in peace in what previously my own country, the american jews voted overwhelmingly for slavery, the extinction of america, and the aid and comfort of the enemies of america. there were many other groups who did the same, but for the most part there is at least some plausable excuse for their treason. the welfare addicts, of course, are not expected to be able to see beyond their next welfare check, and can be forgiven for betraying their country to the traitors. the english cigarettes, of course are despised by mainstream americans, and can be forgiven for wanting to destroy america. the blacks of course have forgotten who freed them, and have been owned by the traitors so long that all they have to do is what they have always done to betray their country. the jews, however, came to this country to escape opression, and have been much better treated here than anywhere else. so they repay the rest of the country by voting as a block for opression, treason, tyranny, and slavery for their fellow americans, and for extinction for the israeli jews. i suggest we send all american jews to israel. let them betray their own country somewhere else. let them put their own lives at risk when they betray their country to islam. btw, never forget that the atom bomb spies were jews. they loved stalin more than america.

tim!
i dont give a large water barrier about jonathan pollard or ben kadish. they are microscopic small root vegetables compared the the traitor occupying the white house. call out my name after you get vaporized in the coming nuclear terrorist attacks made inevitable by the flap eared traitor who revealed everything our enemies wanted to know.

curmudgeon !

Interesting take.


paranoidmystic
So the world is being plagued by a "fundamentalist" problem, huh?

Funny, a lot of Amish are pretty "fundamentalist" in THEIR beliefs also, to the point, for many of them, of spurning modern technology. I don't seem to recall, however, of hearing of any cases of Amish suicide horse-and-buggy drivers (although as clueless as Janet Napolitano is, I wouldn't be one bit surprised if she'd have DHS start monitoring the AMISH, too, as "potential" terrorists!).

Also funny, I doubt you'd say that people like Joseph Stalin, Mao Tse-Tung, Pol Pot, and Kim Jong IL - Communists all, and therefore atheists - were EVER part of the "fundamentalist problem plaguing the world." Yet without the "baggage" of "fundamentalism", somehow they STILL managed to kill tens of millions of human beings. Maybe you'd like to tell us all what went wrong there.

If you want to equate ALL belief in a Supreme Being - regardless of how differently those who believe in God believe about His nature and what He asks/requires of man - as being as bad as the lowest common denominator of such belief in your mind, which seems to be the Islamic belief system, then please tell me why I shouldn't make the same assumption, under the very same standard you use for religious believers who actually happen to strongly believe in the tenets of their belief system, for all you who are NOT part of the "fundamentalist problem". That you're all just as evil and potentially homicidal as the lowest common denominator of YOUR worldview, examples of which I just named.

Unless you advocate simply believing in NOTHING AT ALL. Well, do you?

Amendment to my last post
Actually, when I used the words "lowest common denominator", the concept I was actually trying to convey was "worst example".

curmudgeon !

I don't intend to be gettin' vaporized anytime sooner than you get vaporized sport.
Obviously ,You don' know me.

I didn't vote for Obama ,because he's a Socialist Engineer and Unfit to Serve.

I didn't vote for McCain because he's a Serial Traitor to Conservatism was A Frontman for The Neoconservative Israel Agendists.

Aaaaand,I sure as hell ,didn't Vote for Bebe Netanyahu because I'm an American and Not an Israeli.

Got It ?
Get It !

eqaulity of jews and gentiles
I see the dire existestional threat to Israael. It is now being treated equal to everyone else.

What is fundamentalism?
Standshisground wrote:

"So the world is being plagued by a "fundamentalist" problem, huh?"

And the answer is yes. The people in this world who believe that their script, their text, their list of names, their family lineage is the one and only meaning to life and who equate those outside this meaning as the Other are the problem.

All the fundamentalists are the same: the evangelicals, the zionists, and the jihadists. The specific names and forms differ, but the mind-virus of their fundamentalism is the same.

Standshisground seems to think fundamentalism is specific to religion, but that just means he doesn't understand the word. Fascists like Mao, Stalin and Kim Jong are just as fundamentalist in their worship of the state.

If we had real wisdom, rather than fundamentalism, at our core we would see the crimes committed against the Palestinian as well as the Israeli. We would condemn the crimes, and support the right action to move both states from war.

But we won't do that. The US is run by a corporatocracy which profits from selling arms to both sides. They are very clever, and know how to manipulate fundamentalists into delivering ever greater numbers of future customers.

Stanhisground
So you think that "God's" chosen people are Jews ! You do have a problem with supremacism : your own that is ! You are a bigotand yet you complain that someone did not like you because you were Jewish . No country has given such protection to the Jews as has America ! Even if you might have been called a name (as if one other immigrant has been called names by other immigrant groups ) your property rights have been protected 100% and your First Amendment rights have been protected 100% . Stop your whining because you will not get any sympathy from me nor will Israel.

Well isn't that special !




Reply to the Reply from WAY Down South
Sorry it took a day to respond. I had to leave early. I have no quarrels with your take on Islam--it has a violent history and seeks world domination. Your first comment, though, made it sound like GWB was stupid (or a stooge) for his definition of Islam, when in fact, he was correct, but incomplete. The irony is that the root meaning of the word (which is related to Shalom in Hebrew) has been so corrupted by Muslim teaching and practice.

On a different point, I am never a fan of ad hominems and calling anyone a "stooge" accomplishes little.

Your point on the "Arabic Expert" is noted and has validity. But please do not infer that I support or defend Islam. Nothing could be further from the truth.

NETANYAHU IS A LEADER!
Natanyahu will do what he thinks necessary to protect his people. He is a leader. quite unlike what represents us currently. Our president's main concern is feeding his huge ego. I fear for our country when our leadership believes the way to deal with people who want to destroy us, is to hold hands and tell them how much we want to get along. He can threaten Netanyahu all he wants but Netanyahu will show him what a leader does. He leads. If BO is a Christian, it must be in name only... because he hasn't read the same Bible I have .This is an incompetent administration in many ways, but especially in foreign policy.

Here we go yet again
Somewhere, the world's smallest violin is playing. It's always the "oh the poor Jews" line. Of course, this gives them the right to oppress others (i.e. Palestinians) and declare their racist religion's belief in being the so-called "Chosen people." They can criticize the Pope when he metions the "millions of Holocaust victims" instead of just saying "6 million Jews." Of course, once again it's all about the Jews. Meanwhile, the US is the target of terrorists because of our government's bias towards Israel (getting nothing in return). They know that if you criticize anything about a Jew, you must be a Nazi or skinhead.

Well, unlike this sad-a$$ excuse of an American, I am an America firster. If that makes me a Nazi, I better brush up on my goosestep.

Standshisground: Why does the WORLD care so much about Israel, or more generally, the Jews, or at least devote SPECIAL attention to them, given the fact that there has probably not been any people on this whole earth in the last 3,500 or so years which has suffered more abuse and persecution all over this planet than them?

Israel isn't better than anyone else, you say? Well, GOD says differently, because He made the JEWS the Chosen People and Israel the place of His special abiding on this earth - NOT Peru, NOT South Africa, not even America.
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