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Friday, January 04, 2008
Mona Charen :: Townhall.com Columnist
Joe Kennedy, Hugo Chavez and That Free Heating Oil
by Mona Charen
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Will the Dems' health care Christmas Present to America be an improvement or detriment to our health care system?


You've probably seen the TV commercials -- former congressman Joseph P. Kennedy II beckons you to enjoy reduced-price heating oil if you are struggling to keep your house warm, thanks to "our good friends in Venezuela." He then offers a few heartwarming examples of poor people who have taken advantage of the program and offers the toll free number: 1-877-JOE-4-OIL (1-877-563-4645).

So what if Joe Kennedy and Hugo Chavez get a propaganda bonanza, you may say, so long as poor people are benefiting? Kennedy himself has defended the program as "righteous."

So let's see, the poor should accept charity from a would-be dictator who has formed an alliance with Iran and Cuba, who has denounced the United States as the greatest threat to peace and security in the world and called the U.S. president "the devil" and "a genocidal murderer." They should permit themselves to be used by a man who attempted to subvert his country's constitution, proclaimed his goal as "socialism or death," and launched the most comprehensive assault on freedom of the press in Latin America this side of Castro?

"Our good [friend] in Venezuela" just last month suffered a key rebuke from his own people when he attempted to amend the constitution. Chavez's proposed "reforms" would have permitted him to serve for life, ended the autonomy of the central bank, permitted the president to rule by decree, and given him broad powers to suspend civil liberties and seize private property under indefinite states of emergency. A broad spectrum of Venezuelan society united to oppose this "constitutional coup" and narrowly defeated the measure. With his characteristic good grace, Chavez called it a "s---t victory."

How can Mr. Kennedy reconcile the fact that Chavez has in the past pushed OPEC to reduce output to increase prices which affects all Americans, but the poor most of all -- with his pose as Mr. Bountiful? Gosh, is that the act of someone who truly cares about the world's poor?

It isn't as if Chavez has improved life so much in Venezuela that he can now look abroad for charitable opportunities. According to the Associated Press, Venezuela's inflation rate has now topped 22 percent, Latin America's highest. The government has imposed price controls in a bid to control inflation, which has led to shortages of basic items like milk, eggs and sugar. Consumers are also having trouble finding chickens, cooking oil and black beans in supermarkets.

One can understand Mr. Kennedy's desire to help the poor heat their homes in the winter. But to shill for a figure like Chavez? There are other options, including federal programs. Doesn't Kennedy cringe when he reads accounts like this from CNN last May?

"Venezuela's most-watched television station -- and outlet for the political opposition -- went off the air after the government refused to renew its broadcast license . . . Police on Sunday used water cannons and what appeared to be tear gas to break up thousands of demonstrators protesting the government's decision to close the country's most-watched television station . . . Inside the studios of Radio Caracas Television, employees cried and chanted 'Freedom!' on camera."

Does it not cause Kennedy to question his association when he reads accounts like this mid-2007 report from the State Department and the Organization of American States?

"Regarding Venezuela, the State Department report said the human rights situation for 2006 was characterized by 'politicization of the judiciary and harassment of the media and of the political opposition.'

"The report said the human rights violations in Venezuela included unlawful killings, disappearances reportedly involving security forces, torture and abuse of detainees, harsh prison conditions, arbitrary arrests and detentions and attacks on the independent media.

"The OAS report on Venezuela said it was concerned about the administration of justice in that country, the problem of sicariato (paid killings) and the 'impunity that surrounds reports of extrajudicial executions at the hands of agents' of the Venezuelan government.

"Extrajudicial killings are a particular concern in Venezuela. More than 6,370 people were victims of homicides committed between 2000 and 2005 by the 'agents' of Venezuelan state security forces . . ."

But what are a few homicides when you can claim to be helping the poor?

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About The Author
Mona Charen is a syndicated columnist, political analyst and author of Do-Gooders: How Liberals Hurt Those They Claim to Help .
 
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Exactly . . .
Every time I hear this new "Uncle Joe" going on about the oil coming from "the people of Venezuela," makes me want to barf all over him. Not to mention those poor people being used as propaganda tools for such nefarious purposes as described in this article. Because I, for one, know that the oil in that country is controlled by THE GOVERNMENT of Venezuela in general, and the aforementioned oil-spigot dictator Hugo Chavez in particular. In short, I couldn't have put it better than Ms. Charen.

Answer
To briefly answer Mona's question, HE'S A KENNEDY!!!

I always have to barf when I see these ads.

Think about it, Mr. Kennedy is stealing from people who are among the poorest in the hemisphere to benefit people who are among the wealthiest. (Chaves has nationalized the oil industry and therefor the people are owners of this resource:-)) The discount given to Joe II reduces the revenue which in theory should benefit Venezuelans. This by a member of one of New England's richest families, how does that make sense?

One has to be a Kennedy to follow the logic. It is sort of like uncle Ted whining about the discomfort of pretend drowning. (M.J. Kopechne, anybody?)

This country need a Kennedy family exterminator.

Joe Kennedy defines the term:
Useful Idiot. He along with Sean Penn and others are being used as propaganda to promote anti-american objectives.

I wonder if Teddy K. approved this statement. Probably so as Bush Derangement Syndrome is still running rampant on the Left. It kind of goes like "as long as you're anti-Bush you're my friend. It doesn't matter what the consequences of this are, I just support you because you don't like Bush".

Very enlightened.

Think SULFUR
The issue with Joe's Oil is simple.

The EPA requires CITGO to produce a certain percentage of its diesel oil as ultra low sulfur diesel oil.

CITGO doesn't want to - Hugo's crude is particularly high-sulfur and instead they sell it as home heating oil, over which there is no sulfur regulation.

So then they "dump" this oil, a byproduct of making gasoline, and they get a tax deduction too.

Gotta love this.

Think SULFUR
The issue with Joe's Oil is simple.

The EPA requires CITGO to produce a certain percentage of its diesel oil as ultra low sulfur diesel oil.

CITGO doesn't want to - Hugo's crude is particularly high-sulfur and instead they sell it as home heating oil, over which there is no sulfur regulation.

So then they "dump" this oil, a byproduct of making gasoline, and they get a tax deduction too.

Gotta love this.

If there is
a more ignorant clan in this country, I'm unaware of it. Every time the term "Camelot" was applied to the JFK presidency, I wanted to vomit. Teddy and his sons and nephews cause the same reaction. I'd rather listen to Barbra Streisand....Ah, hell, scratch that last part.

I see a recurring theme
in this thread: Joe Kennedy=vomit.

I think PIrate has the most interesting comment: it is a dodge to avoid EPA regs.

Besides, the poorest people don't own their own homes. How are they supposed to benefit from this low-priced, polluting fuel oil?

Makes me want to puke...

MY 2 CENTS
Is that huge citgo sign still in Boston?

Boycott citgo - don't

Patriotic to help the poor
Joe can help the poor heat their homes best by convincing his fellow eco-buds that opening ANWAR to drilling is humane.

Why would he think it is okay to 'pollute' Venezuela but the less populous Alaska is too 'pristine'?

ANWAR takes can reduce costs to poor Americans, takes leverage away from America's enenmies, and would have less environmental impact than expanded oil exploration by the likes of Venezuela and Mexico.

A Kennedy Family Tradition...

...of coddling freedom-destroying dictators. From his namesake grandfather Joe who thought we should "work with Hitler" to mighty Joe now, there isn't a dictator that the Kennedy family would appease.

as I was saying
EVER get ANYTHING from there.

Nevertheless - home heating oil is much more expensive than it used to be and this has been a pretty rough winter so far.

Those of you who can - why not help your parish with fuel assistance or help someone who could use a few bux to stay warm this winter? That's always the best Christmas present.

Free heating oil is FREE heating oil.

No I do NOT like the Kennedys and I wipe my fat b++t with pictures of Hugo Chavez, but I would venture that not a lot of really poor people who are helped by that ptorgam come visiting TH to comment.


as I was saying
EVER get ANYTHING from there.

Nevertheless - home heating oil is much more expensive than it used to be and this has been a pretty rough winter so far.

Those of you who can - why not help your parish with fuel assistance or help someone who could use a few bux to stay warm this winter? That's always the best Christmas present.

Free heating oil is FREE heating oil.

No I do NOT like the Kennedys and I wipe my fat b++t with pictures of Hugo Chavez, but I would venture that not a lot of really poor people who are helped by that ptorgam come visiting TH to comment.


question
How many of you who have deigned to honor us with your acerbic, witty comments have EVER had to make a decision on whether to pay the rent or pay for fuel?

IT SEEMS
a popular comment on TH is if you want to get
something done, then do it yourself with your own
money.

For instance, you want free healthcare for poor
people then pay for some one's health care.

It seems, Joe K. is doing just that.

I have no problem with it. If you don't want him
to get oil from Venezuela, according to Joe the
only country or company willing to give the poor
the donation of oil then it would behoove you to
raise the $ that would be the equivalent of the
donation.

oh no!
Of course it’s propaganda; and it’s darn good too. Now I know that the good folks here would rather freeze than accept charity from Chavez, but this is another example of how TH doesn’t represent the average Joe. I realized years ago that the majority of folks I fed at the ministry didn’t care one bit about the church that provided the food. They just wanted to eat. It’s the same way with being cold. Chavez is taking advantage of this to advance his own petty interests. It’s really quite clever. In the old days, a dictator had to cozy up to us or the Soviets for support. Now the Soviets are gone and Hugo doesn’t want to play ball with our rules. Like a cottage industry, he’s found an alternative way to do business. I don’t think he is a big threat. Chavez know that if he goes to far, we will fall on him like a ton of bricks; and like I said, there is no Soviet Union to bail him out if he gets into a jam.

Of course, we shouldn’t kid ourselves. If Chavez kept the oil flowing and promised to kill commies, the folks at TH would call him a hero and turn a blind eye to any of the killings or repressions that keep a dictator in power.

DEMS
But as usual it doesnt take a village it takes a LIB. We all know that these people are hoping for a DEM to win the Pres.

What the HELL the Terrorist use DEM talking points and the Bollywoods (DEMS) use the DICTATORS so what is new.

We know thaT THE LIBS are SOCIALIST so what gives? We shouldnt be surprised by anything the LIBS do to try and get back POWER. There are allot more poor people in America than just in MASS so why dont CHAVEZ give every POOR PERSON in America there own Gas Station and Be done with it. Then just like the LIBS he can be shown on the T.V. using the poor and Children to get their own POLITICAL POWER. It seems to work for LIBS so why wouldnt a DICTATOR feel right at home in AMERICA.

Disparagement
of those who post here doesn't change one iota how I feel about the Kennedy Claven. By the way, everyone'sfacts, when I needed help with my bills, I went to family for assistance, and another time, I used a bank program to help. It may surprise you to know that not all who post here are completely self-sufficient but seem to manage quite well. You might also be surprised that not all of us insulate ourselves from the trials and tribulations of those less fortunate. We just don't need a hell of a lot of bell ringing to go along with it (Salvation Army excepted, of course).

chopper john, et. al.
thanks for amplifying my point.

Joe K. for whatever reason wants to help people
who can't or have trouble paying their bills so
he asked around (for you you asked your family) to
companies and countries that could help him and
according to him the ONLY country or company that
would give it to him for free was Venezuela.

All I am saying is if you or TH posters want this
to stop you could raise the equivalent amount of
$ to the Venezuelan oil and I am sure Joe4oil would gladly take it.

(Although now that I think of it if you did
raise the $ he would probably want to use that
not instead of free Venezuelan oil but in
addition to so he could give 2x the amount of families oil. So, I guess, I stand corrected.)

Ms.Charen
I am going to be quite honest with you.I like Mr. Chavez.The ELECTIONS,which were held last month had too many items on the BALLOT.Yet,Mr. Chavez only lost by a small margin.In America,we take a step back,analyze the results and PLOT our next move.POWER forces these steps upon those in POWER.Poor people are not sophisticated enough to distinguish between sources.So why ask a hungry person, to turn down a meal,when you have none for them?Have you been to Venezuela,lately?Or do you get your news from the CIA pipeline?What's missing in the food market,is a classic target for the CIA?Price controls in a market, means a lack of competition,if money is being used.This is something that can be easily addressed by increasing imports.I suggest Haiti,maybe.Oh but we don't want them to be friends.History has a tendency not to die when it is suppose to.This is one of those occasions..I also like President Bush.He is not scared of Mr. Chavez!Why are you?

Brain Cramp
Maybe because Joe Kennedy of yesteryear wanted to work with Hitler Joe Kennedy of today is confused after suffering from a brain cramp. He now thinks that he is Joe Stalin.

Joe Kennedy Is:
A misguided dipstick.

Need to look at motivation
Everyonesfacts,

You really need to look at motivation. The current government of Venezuela is supporting Commie insurrections, Fidel Castro, and the nut job from Bolivia. These people mean us harm. Joe Kennedy has sided with a man that considers himself to be a mortal enemy of the USA.

The solution to the oil situation is to allow our own oil businesses to explore for oil, drill for it, and build new refineries.

Joe Kennedy
Thank you for another excellent column, Ms. Charen.

I always wonder why Mr. Kennedy believes it is better for President Chavez to give to the poor in America rather than the far poorer in his own country. I wonder how much Mr. Kennedy personally benefits from President Chavez's false generosity?

Joe Kennedy is consistent
The Kennedys can always be counted on to do what's best for the Kennedys.

If licking the boots of a vile dictator help promote a Kennedy, they're all for it. If wind power spoils the view from their yachts, they're against it. If flying around in private jets is more convenient for a Kennedy, they love it (just not for anyone else). If setting up the family trust in Fiji means the Kennedys don't pay the inheritance taxes they demand everyone else pay, they're all for it.

The Kennedys crimes and idiotic political meddling have done more damage to America than a 100 Mafia clans.

Gas stations that do not use
Chavez or MidEast oil:

Sinclair (former Atlantic Richfield) comes from the cont. US, Alaska, N. Sea, South China Sea, and Indonesia.

Hess oil comes from US cont. and Alaska, Indonesia-Java, Gulf of MX, Norway, Guinea-Malyasia.

Sonoco oil comes from Conoco-Philips whose oil is from TX, Gulf of MX, Finland, Russia, and has refused to cede Venezualan holdings to Chavez.


Come now
Our government, both Republican and Democrat, have a long history of supporting brutal dictators if it suited national/business interests. It is either naiveté or hypocrisy to lay all the blame on the Kennedys or Democrats at large. The only reason folks like Chare are bothered by the commercials are because they are being beaten at their own game, political propaganda.

chavez is right
"who has denounced the United States as the greatest threat to peace and security in the world"

well, what does the world think?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/5077984.stm

US 'biggest global peace threat'

People in European and Muslim countries see US policy in Iraq as a bigger threat to world peace than Iran's nuclear programme, a survey has shown.

The survey by the Pew Research Group also found support for US President George W Bush and his "war on terror" had dropped dramatically worldwide.

Goodwill created by US aid for nations hit by the 2004 tsunami had also faded since last year, the survey found.

The survey questioned 17,000 people in 15 countries, including the US.

The latest in a series of annual polls by the Pew Global Attitudes Project interviewed respondents between 31 March and 14 May 2006.

Its release coincides with a surprise visit by President George W Bush to Baghdad in an effort to shore up support for US policy in the region.

The latest survey shows the worldwide reputation of the US continues to suffer over its prosecution of the "war on terror".

Sharp declines in the public perception of the US were particularly apparent in India, Spain and Turkey.

Goodwill towards the US had fallen from 71% to 56% in India, from 41% to 23% in Spain and from 23% to 12% in Turkey.

A majority of people in 10 of the 14 countries outside the US surveyed said the war in Iraq had made the world a more dangerous place.

Some 60% of people in the UK, which is the US biggest ally, felt the Iraq war had made the world less secure, while 30% said it had made the world safer.

"everyonesfacts" needs to wake up
Virtually every phrase in your post is based on a false premise. "Venezuela" does NOT "give" "free oil" "out of its profits." the reality is that a dictator, Chavez, uses force to steal oil from the oil companies that produce it in order to exploit its value to maintain and increase his personal power.

Without oil company profits, there would be no oil industry and no refined oil to "distribute."

If you don't like corporate oil, don't buy it. By all means, plese go ahead and find and refine your own oil and then give it to "the poor." I have little doubt that when your plan is applied to you, you will suddenly realize its absurdity.

people in glass houes
"the human rights violations in ... included unlawful killings, disappearances reportedly involving security forces, torture and abuse of detainees, harsh prison conditions, arbitrary arrests and detentions and attacks on the independent media."

are you talking US or isreal?



sonofsam
Come on dude really tell us what you think Come on you can do it, come on tell us please

by the way this is 2008 not 2006.

but come on dude you can tell us we want hurt you.

By the way from me to you I could care less what the rest of the WORLD thinks about the U.S.A.
They hardly ever help us anyway not unless they need help so WHO CARES

sonofsam I am
But just like a LIB you always take the side of DICTATORS and TERRORIST over your own ELECTED PRESIDENT boy that must make you LIBS feel GREAT.

But you really can tell us how you feel, come on. spit it out.

But remember that this inept/corrupt President not only ONCE BUT TWICE KICKED YOUR LIB ARSES in the ELECTIONS.

DEMS=DICTAOTRS/TERRORIST supporters

Kennedys
I could be wrong,but I believe that among the Kennedy family holdings is an oil company.

lastly moner
i can only marvel at how 'righteous' you can be in your well heated house, even as temps dip below 0 and public assistance oil is already gone...

http://www.bostonherald.com/news/regional/general/view.bg?a rticleid=1064511

Safety fears rise as temps plunge

As temperatures dropped dangerously low yesterday, advocates continued their pleas for emergency fuel funds to be released before it is too late for needy Bay Staters.

The mercury hit a mere 20 degrees in Boston yesterday. Lows hovered around 7, but the wind chill made the arctic air feel more like 5 below

But the cold is hitting Boston’s neediest hard. Action for Boston Community Development Inc. has capped its fuel assistance at $865 per family this winter. That only allows one fill-up per family in most cases, said president Bob Coard, who estimates most families have to fill up four or five times to get through the winter.

“The majority of our people are already out of oil,” Coard said. “Their tanks are dry.”

President Bush approved $586 million in emergency fuel aid last week, but it hasn’t been released yet. Coard estimates it will provide each ABCD family an extra $250.

...
my sincere hope for you, moning and whining, is that you get thrown out into the cold where you have to beg to get warm. we'll see, then, just how 'moral' you are!

sonofsam
What you mean that we are in GLOBULL COOLING PHASE, What the Hell happened to GLOBULL WARMING that you LIBS have been pushing behind your Nobel Prize Winner AL GLOBULL WARMING GORE. Are you stating that there is no GLOBULL WARMING going on now. Wow thats a RELIEF. I guess that all them Green Dues that you LIBS have been pay AL GLOBULL WARMING GORE could really help out with your GAS BILL HUH . HA HA HA LOL

sonofsam
Yea I met your LIBS most PRESTIGED CONGRESSMAN at the last KKK Raly MR KKK BYRD himself. OOOOPS i think he is a LIB isnt he. Now that really ought to tell you about your own KKK PARTY MEMBERS. I think MR KKK BYRD can create some heat for you at his bonfire at HIS NEXT HANGING PARTY.

sunofsam
Are you really saying anthing goes in getting reduced cost oil to these few people even if it indirectly endangers the rest of us by encouraging this dictator to take more and more aggressive actions against us?

Or another way to look at Chavez's generosity, is it at the expence of his own poor ( I have personally seen the tremendous poverty)?

By the way, do you remember Chavez's best buddy Castro's example in his cooperation with the Russians in putting missles in range of our country?

chuck
“But remember that this inept/corrupt President not only ONCE BUT TWICE KICKED YOUR LIB ARSES in the ELECTIONS.”

So what? By that standard, Clinton was a good president. Try and have at least a little historical perspective. Reagan supported the Alianza Republicana Nacionalista in El Salvador dispite countless atrocities. Political oppertunists come in all parties and in the case of supporting dictators and terrorists, both parties have had a hand in it.


MikeR
You mean like Clinton selling our Nuclear Sub Technology the Chineese and for WHAT. Hell we still dont know why today. Also like Clinton giving N Korea Nuclear fuel on a Hand shake to another Commie. Please how about you having political perspective. The problem with you LIBS is it is alright to Bash a standing Pres but OHHHH NOOOO dont say anything about your FIRST BLACK PRESIDENT (BILL SCUDSTER CLINTOON)or you are EVIL or drinking the KOOL-AID or listening to RUSH as you LIBS like to quote.

Without the US military
this world, and in particular Europe, would look much different today. The US military creates peace by just simply existing.

The nutjobs of the world are kept in check knowing that we will defend freedom and will help other countries do the same.

chuck writes
"By the way from me to you I could care less what the rest of the WORLD thinks about the U.S.A.
They hardly ever help us anyway not unless they need help so WHO CARES "

Amen to that!!!


Kennedy Control.

This country doesn't need more gun control, it needs more Kennedy Control.

Ever since JFK signed the Community Mental Health Centers Act of 1963, the legislation that closed this nations mental institutions and let the mentally ill spill out onto America's streets, the only place for the Kennedy's to go is into politics.

History lesson for sonofsam
The KKK was essentially a quasi-military force serving the interests of the DEMOCRAT Party. The KKK as a mass-movement is largely traceable to the works of Thomas Dixon ("The Clansman," "The Leopard's Spots") whose purpose was "to revolutionize northern sentiment by a presentation of history that would transform every man in my audience into a good DEMOCRAT." Aside from the word "good," it appears Dixon succeeded. Another example of the tendency of some to become the very thing they claim to hate the most.

It's no coincidence that "the conscience of the Democrat party" Robert Byrd, was a Klan recruiter.

Where does left-wing collectivism lead?

Nazi = National SOCIALIST Party

USSR = Union of Soviet SOCIALIST Republics

CPC = COMMUNIST Party of China

Khmer Rouge = Cambodian COMMUNIST Party

. . . and hundreds of millions dead.

Free-market, minimalist government is clearly the very opposite of all of the above.

sheepdog
I cant stand it when the LIBS always stating that no one around the World likes us anymore.

But there ex leaders like CLINTON, GORE, and CARTER run around the WORLD making Million Dollar speeches on how EFFED up their own country is and when you call them UN-PATRIATIC they have sissy fits.

Where was all this support from other countries when Katrina wiped out N.O. When Forrest fires wipe out California. We give more to people around the world than anybody.

Almost every country around the World owes this country a great gratitude for keeping Commies off their ARSESZ but to hear LIBS talk we are always the PROBLEM. I have never seen so many people that hate their own country more than they do CUBA, IRAN, China hell I could go on forever. But dont call them UNPATRIATIC.

B.S.I will call them UNPATRIATIC and TRAITORS.

The DRIVE BY MEDIA is as much to blame but the LIBS have them in their back pockets.

I'm awake, are you?
Michael writes: "Virtually every phrase in your post is based on a false premise. "Venezuela" does NOT "give" "free oil" "out of its profits." the reality is that a dictator, Chavez, uses force to steal oil from the oil companies that produce it in order to exploit its value to maintain and increase his personal power."

1st, Chavez is not a dictator, not yet.
Wants to be one I think - hence the recent
referendum which would have given the Pres. of
Venezuela "emergency powers" similar to the
Weimar Const.

Chavez / the Venezuelan govt. is increasingly
nationalizing (as opposed to privatizing) the oil
of Venezuela. Thus, kicking out foreign oil
companies or limiting their input.

Chavez has not used force in regards to oil as
far as I know. Any Exxon workers killed? Citgo?
PDVSA?

Thus, he the country of Venezuela is giving oil
out of the profits the country could be making.


"Without oil company profits, there would be no oil industry and no refined oil to "distribute."

I never said differently.
I said that companies COULD give free oil out of
their profits. That would be a choice.

"If you don't like corporate oil, don't buy it. By all means, plese go ahead and find and refine your own oil and then give it to "the poor." I have little doubt that when your plan is applied to you, you will suddenly realize its absurdity."

You missed my first posts obviously.
This is exactly what I wrote:
"All I am saying is if you or TH posters want this to stop you could raise the equivalent amount of $ to the Venezuelan oil and I am sure Joe4oil would gladly take it. "

Thus, I agree you got a problem with it - give
$ or your own oil. Till then, shuddup about
taking free oil from Venezuela.

Where's Jimmy Carter now?
Have we heard one word from that old, wrinkly anti-Semite about election fraud in Venezuela? Has he condemned Chavez' efforts to become Presidente for Life? Where is his self-righteous blathering now?

Hillary delenda est.

everyonesfacts still comatose
So all those oil companies just willingly allowed their assets to be "nationalized" (euphemism for "stolen by the Chavez government")? If a thug takes your money at gunpoint, would you likewise assert the transaction was purely voluntary because you agreed to relinquish your wallet to avoid being slaughtered?

Here's some news re your hero's persuasive skills when he had soldiers accompany government officials when they took over oil projects in the Orinoco River basin. "On May 1 we are going to take control of the oil fields," Chavez said. "I'm sure no transnational company is going to draw a shotgun, but we will go with the armed forces and the people." As cute and fun as Hitler's brown shirts!

Wake up - there's a point where emotional commitment to an ideological position becomes willful blindness.

chuck
Yes, exactly like Clinton. That’s why I used the phrase “both parties”. The great irony is that you are doing exactly what you accuse other of doing. If I were to retort with “But remember that this inept/corrupt President not only ONCE BUT TWICE KICKED YOUR [conservative] ARSES in the ELECTIONS” would you consider that a viable comment? You simply lack the perspective required to make an honest evaluation.

As far as being a lib, your colorful phrases, random use of capitals and atrocious grammar make me think you are a liberal plant here to make all of us conservatives look like reactionary idiots.

Amen -
The overwhelming commentary is so damned accurate and true! When I saw that Citgo commercial with that miserable Joe Kennedy, I, too, wanted to barf!
What a whore!
I ceased buying Citgo gas several years ago, even when it was the lowest priced brand...
And I'd rather walk than fuel-up with Citgo.
Joe and his friends, like Sean Penn, Jane Fonda, Danny Glover, Barbara Lee are totally nauseating!

Chuck
"Where was all this support from other countries when Katrina wiped out N.O. When Forrest fires wipe out California. We give more to people around the world than anybody."

One of the best columns I ever read from someone outside the U.S. was Gordon Sinclair a TV broadcaster (I believe) and was printed in the Toronto Star. He broadcast it in 1973. He said exactly the same thing.

http://www.tysknews.com/Depts/Our_Culture/americans.htm

This makes my eyes water every time I read this
And he was Canadian no doubt.

Michael
You have some useful points:
companies should be given back their equipment and
be compensated for lost rights. That's what int'l
courts are for.

But a state does imho have the sovereign right to
take over land or resources in its own domain.
That said, I did not agree with Kelo although I
usually do not mind uses of eminent domain.

I do not see where you have seen me favor Chavez
in any way, to think I think of him as a hero makes
me think you again need to reread my posts and then
comprehend them.

What I have said clearly is I do not see anything
wrong with taking free oil from Venezuela.

Hell, I would love to get so much free oil from
Venezuela that no one had to pay for home heat.
And China can send all the crap they make over
here for free too.
If we get it for free these commie governments
aren't getting $ for it.

the kennedy's
they hawk oil from a tin pot dictator as to prove they are concerned about cheap energy yet these buffoons opposed the windfarms offf the mass coast lesss they see them from the kennedy compound at hyannisport. But then again the kennedy's always hold themselves to a different standard they they hold others to. However it appears that mass and rhode island also have no problem electing kennedy's. It remains however a mystery why baby sis lost out in maryland. .

wildwest
I agree, on the wind farm point, just googled Joe
K. and the wind farm and found he is against it
according to the article:

http://www.capecodtoday.com/news106.htm

"Joseph Kennedy II, the admirable purveyor of low cost fuel oil and prescription drugs goes along with Uncle Ted on the wind farm issue."

FWIW, I am for it.

MikeR
Wow didnt mean to ruffle your feathers but thought you were a LIB. MY BAD DUDE

But I learn from the LIBs about how to run CAPS

everyonesfacts and redemption
I don't share your confidence in the "international courts" since they can't enforce a judgment unless Chavez agreed to enforce it against himself (hint: he won't). How successful were the international courts in stopping Hitler? Any reason to think they'd do better today? Without a viable enforcement mechanism, such "judgments" aren't worth the paper they're written on.

A more fundamental problem: the oil is not "free," it cost the producers plenty. Moreover, it is stolen, and being used by the thief (Chavez) to further his own quest for power, with Joe Kennedy opportunistically willing to play useful idiot. It is "free" only in the sense that art stolen by the Nazis (or human-skin lampshades) were "free."

The problem with "eminent domain" (a regal-sounding euphemism for government theft) is that it can be used to justify any totalitarian measure, and is fundamentally incompatible with the concept of individual rights: would a dictator taking over all news media be okay if he does so in the name of "eminent domain"? Why not, since the concept of eminent domain is without any intelligible boundary? Not coincidentally, Chavez in doing just that.

Free Oil... Go for it
So Hugo Chavez is giving away free oil?

I say go for it! If it means his people will have to do with a little less of something... Well, great! Maybe that will be enough for them to revolt.

Of course if this is really just a scam to get around the EPA, then we need to tighten that loop hole.

Michael
Under commercial intl courts, all countries who find the court legit would probably pay PDVSA less and the $ would go to Exxon. et. al. Or
all countries would raise tariffs on Ven. goods
and give the $ to the oil companies. A similar
thing was going to happen to steel production in
the U.S. since it was not following intl. trade
treaties. (the situations are not analogous, but
the methods of payment/punishment would have
been similar)

The producers are getting paid. If you're
talking about the workers. And as I said before
I am for compensating the companies what they
lost.

Note my feelings on eminent domain.
Do I think it is always bad? No.
Did I think Kelo was bad? Yes.
Is the situation in Ven. worse than Kelo? Yes.

Is property an inalienable right? No, it is an
alienable right.

Should a country be able to control a natural
resource in its borders? Yes, think water.

Should the country compensate companies it takes
land from? yes, this isn't part of the definition
of eminent domain, but that is how it is usually
practiced in the U.S.

Can said country dispense with the resource as
it pleases? Yes.

The intelligible boundary of eminent domain in
Venezuela would be the boundaries of Venezuela.

Am I supporter of Chavez? No.
Is Chavez Hitler? No
If the referendum had passed could he have acted
like Hitler by taking "emergency control?"
Yes.

media and eminent domain
would a dictator taking over all news media be okay if he does so in the name of "eminent domain"?

1st dictator is unnecessary.

So, would a government . . .?

Yes, but I would not be for it.

Even in the good USA media was under strict govt
controls / standards.

Cable and the internet have changed this.
Could the govt again place strict rules and regs
on these new media? Yes.

Now, we are talking about liberty and that is
an inalienable right. Although I am a conservative in its application as to mainly
free political speech - directly or indirectly.
But that is for another day.

heating oil
It is utterly absurd that oil is used anywhere for heating in this day and age.

It's like feeding your dog caviar instead of dog food.

It is absolutely insane.

Each according...
...we know this phrase.

Our poor needs the oil more than their poor, and since they have an over-abundant supply...

That's their screed, isn't it?

boycott Citgo.


Free Oil
Nothing is free. Someone pays no matter what it is that is being given away. If Chavez has coerced the oil companies into abandoning their rights then they are the ones paying. At the very least the citizens of Venezuela are paying because in the end the oil belongs to them. Poverty in America is middle class in Venezuela. Should Hugo Chavez be giving their oil to Americans?

The Kennedys should consider
giving their scotch royalties to "the poor" for heating oil. They will quickly find out that "the poor" will spend the money on whatever they want and still about the cost of gas, oil, heath care, food, etc...

I had a kid sent to me today who was sleeping in class. It turns out that she didn't sleep well last night because the house was too cold; her understanding was that her mom couldn't afford to turn the heat on. While we were making a plan of how to navigate the day and to further explore the heating issue, she casually mentioned her boyfriend and her winter recess. The present she liked best was the Wii game system, and she got her boyfriend a laptop so that they could im each other. I wish situations like this were unusual, but they are the rule rather than the exception.



Kennedy....
The biggest problem I can see, is Kennedy's are breeding faster than they can die off.

Free Heating Oil
Where do I sign up? My 400 gal. oil tank is approaching 20" and the worst of winter is coming on. If some creepy despot thinks my opinions can be purchased, let him place his wager!

don
that may be so but the bloodline is thinning and the results aren't pretty. Their real problem is that like all elitists they lose more contact with reality as time passes. But once uncle and daddy leave the scene, the glue holding them together also is gone. He is their guiding light and a rather dim bulb at best except in mass where he maintains a stranglehold on the dims still stupid enough to return him tgo the senate

Troll hunting
sonofsam=troll

Best to ignore.

take advantage
I think every American should take as much free oil from Venezuela as they possible can. That's more money that stays in American and less that goes to Chavez.

Professor
Hey DUDE why dont you call my BRO AL and have him give you some of his GREEN FEES DUDE , ITS all GLOBULL DUDE

I'm wondering
I know that the big CITGO sign which can be seen a couple miles away from Fenway Park in Boston has been there for many years. I find it curious that it's a pretty big sign in a very liberal city.

oil
If the liberals wanted us to have affordable heating oil, they would have started drilling OUR oil off OUR coasts. They could hire the oil companies to drill, process, and deliver the offshore oil belonging to the PEOPLE OF THE UNITED STATES for the handling cost plus a small profit. (The profit for gasoline is 9 cents per gallon.) The oil would not have a per-barrel charge added, like foreign oil has. Since it would come straight from our offshore rigs,through a strong steel pipe,there would not be any oil spills or tanker charges, so the price to consumers would be less than one dollar.
If they would repeal all the taxes, they would remove them from price paid for everything, greatly reducing the price. The oil price would be even lower.

Kennedy's
The reason that MA keeps electing Kennedy's (plural) to the U. S. Congress is that it keeps them in D. C. most of the time, and out of MA. This way, the people's daughters are safer.

Joe Kennedy=p!mp
"Does it not cause Kennedy to question his association when he reads accounts like this mid-2007 report from the State Department and the Organization of American States?"

Not at all, he is a Kennedy after all, all of whom are p!mps and prostitutes. His agenda is supreme, nothing else matters. He thinks he is presidential material. Great laugh.

But he will get his just dessers.

Joe Kennedy
Obviously young Joe left rehab before the process was completed.

Moronic wingnuts
Canada is the second largest supplier of oil to the US and most Canadians think Bush is an a**hole. Put that in your pipe of stupid and smoke it.

(Oh, and I dare you to risk doing without the oil Canada supplies. Idiots.)


Barbell, Oil is a WORLD commodity...
so I believe the US can do without Canada's oil quite nicely, and any time, just as Canada can do without the US Market. (Who's the idiot now?)
----------------
Uncle Max: How many of you who have deigned to honor us with your acerbic, witty comments have EVER had to make a decision on whether to pay the rent or pay for fuel?
---------------
I've been poor, and my family was way poorer than the neighbors on Welfare, both as a child, and as an adult, so spare me the canard about choosing between heat and cat food for dinner. NO ONE in this country goes hungry - or dies of the elements, unless they choose to.

My Dad made a CHOICE not to accept welfare, and these people should make the choice NOT to accept aid from Chavez.

Kennedy is a con artist, and I'd be quite interested to know how much money he gets from Chavez for his help in rehabilitating this lout. Believe me, there's nothing charitable about his "gift" of oil, and just because you don't know the exact reason he's doing it, does not mean he has no reason to do it.

Helping the poor is the "least" of either of their concerns.
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