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Thursday, December 06, 2007
Mitt Romney :: Townhall.com Columnist
Faith In America
by Mitt Romney
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College Station, TX - Speaking at The George Bush Presidential Library, Governor Romney addressed the American people about his views on religious liberty, our country grand tradition of religious tolerance and how faith would inform his Presidency.

Governor Romney's "Faith In America" Address (As Prepared For Delivery):

"Thank you, Mr. President, for your kind introduction.

"It is an honor to be here today. This is an inspiring place because of you and the First Lady and because of the film exhibited across the way in the Presidential library. For those who have not seen it, it shows the President as a young pilot, shot down during the Second World War, being rescued from his life-raft by the crew of an American submarine. It is a moving reminder that when America has faced challenge and peril, Americans rise to the occasion, willing to risk their very lives to defend freedom and preserve our nation. We are in your debt. Thank you, Mr. President.

"Mr. President, your generation rose to the occasion, first to defeat Fascism and then to vanquish the Soviet Union. You left us, your children, a free and strong America. It is why we call yours the greatest generation. It is now my generation's turn. How we respond to today's challenges will define our generation. And it will determine what kind of America we will leave our children, and theirs.

"America faces a new generation of challenges. Radical violent Islam seeks to destroy us. An emerging China endeavors to surpass our economic leadership. And we are troubled at home by government overspending, overuse of foreign oil, and the breakdown of the family.

"Over the last year, we have embarked on a national debate on how best to preserve American leadership. Today, I wish to address a topic which I believe is fundamental to America's greatness: our religious liberty. I will also offer perspectives on how my own faith would inform my Presidency, if I were elected.

"There are some who may feel that religion is not a matter to be seriously considered in the context of the weighty threats that face us. If so, they are at odds with the nation's founders, for they, when our nation faced its greatest peril, sought the blessings of the Creator. And further, they discovered the essential connection between the survival of a free land and the protection of religious freedom. In John Adams' words: 'We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion... Our constitution was made for a moral and religious people.'

"Freedom requires religion just as religion requires freedom. Freedom opens the windows of the soul so that man can discover his most profound beliefs and commune with God. Freedom and religion endure together, or perish alone.

"Given our grand tradition of religious tolerance and liberty, some wonder whether there are any questions regarding an aspiring candidate's religion that are appropriate. I believe there are. And I will answer them today.

"Almost 50 years ago another candidate from Massachusetts explained that he was an American running for president, not a Catholic running for president. Like him, I am an American running for president. I do not define my candidacy by my religion. A person should not be elected because of his faith nor should he be rejected because of his faith.

"Let me assure you that no authorities of my church, or of any other church for that matter, will ever exert influence on presidential decisions. Their authority is theirs, within the province of church affairs, and it ends where the affairs of the nation begin.

"As governor, I tried to do the right as best I knew it, serving the law and answering to the Constitution. I did not confuse the particular teachings of my church with the obligations of the office and of the Constitution - and of course, I would not do so as President. I will put no doctrine of any church above the plain duties of the office and the sovereign authority of the law.

"As a young man, Lincoln described what he called America's 'political religion' - the commitment to defend the rule of law and the Constitution. When I place my hand on the Bible and take the oath of office, that oath becomes my highest promise to God. If I am fortunate to become your president, I will serve no one religion, no one group, no one cause, and no one interest. A President must serve only the common cause of the people of the United States.

"There are some for whom these commitments are not enough. They would prefer it if I would simply distance myself from my religion, say that it is more a tradition than my personal conviction, or disavow one or another of its precepts. That I will not do. I believe in my Mormon faith and I endeavor to live by it. My faith is the faith of my fathers - I will be true to them and to my beliefs.

"Some believe that such a confession of my faith will sink my candidacy. If they are right, so be it. But I think they underestimate the American people. Americans do not respect believers of convenience.

Americans tire of those who would jettison their beliefs, even to gain the world.

"There is one fundamental question about which I often am asked. What do I believe about Jesus Christ? I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and the Savior of mankind. My church's beliefs about Christ may not all be the same as those of other faiths. Each religion has its own unique doctrines and history. These are not bases for criticism but rather a test of our tolerance. Religious tolerance would be a shallow principle indeed if it were reserved only for faiths with which we agree.

"There are some who would have a presidential candidate describe and explain his church's distinctive doctrines. To do so would enable the very religious test the founders prohibited in the Constitution. No candidate should become the spokesman for his faith. For if he becomes President he will need the prayers of the people of all faiths.

"I believe that every faith I have encountered draws its adherents closer to God. And in every faith I have come to know, there are features I wish were in my own: I love the profound ceremony of the Catholic Mass, the approachability of God in the prayers of the Evangelicals, the tenderness of spirit among the Pentecostals, the confident independence of the Lutherans, the ancient traditions of the Jews, unchanged through the ages, and the commitment to frequent prayer of the Muslims. As I travel across the country and see our towns and cities, I am always moved by the many houses of worship with their steeples, all pointing to heaven, reminding us of the source of life's blessings.

"It is important to recognize that while differences in theology exist between the churches in America, we share a common creed of moral convictions. And where the affairs of our nation are concerned, it's usually a sound rule to focus on the latter - on the great moral principles that urge us all on a common course. Whether it was the cause of abolition, or civil rights, or the right to life itself, no movement of conscience can succeed in America that cannot speak to the convictions of religious people.

"We separate church and state affairs in this country, and for good reason. No religion should dictate to the state nor should the state interfere with the free practice of religion. But in recent years, the notion of the separation of church and state has been taken by some well beyond its original meaning. They seek to remove from the public domain any acknowledgment of God. Religion is seen as merely a private affair with no place in public life. It is as if they are intent on establishing a new religion in America - the religion of secularism. They are wrong.

"The founders proscribed the establishment of a state religion, but they did not countenance the elimination of religion from the public square. We are a nation 'Under God' and in God, we do indeed trust.

"We should acknowledge the Creator as did the Founders - in ceremony and word. He should remain on our currency, in our pledge, in the teaching of our history, and during the holiday season, nativity scenes and menorahs should be welcome in our public places. Our greatness would not long endure without judges who respect the foundation of faith upon which our constitution rests. I will take care to separate the affairs of government from any religion, but I will not separate us from 'the God who gave us liberty.'

"Nor would I separate us from our religious heritage. Perhaps the most important question to ask a person of faith who seeks a political office, is this: does he share these American values: the equality of human kind, the obligation to serve one another, and a steadfast commitment to liberty?

"They are not unique to any one denomination. They belong to the great moral inheritance we hold in common. They are the firm ground on which Americans of different faiths meet and stand as a nation, united.

"We believe that every single human being is a child of God - we are all part of the human family. The conviction of the inherent and inalienable worth of every life is still the most revolutionary political proposition ever advanced. John Adams put it that we are 'thrown into the world all equal and alike.'

"The consequence of our common humanity is our responsibility to one another, to our fellow Americans foremost, but also to every child of God. It is an obligation which is fulfilled by Americans every day, here and across the globe, without regard to creed or race or nationality.

"Americans acknowledge that liberty is a gift of God, not an indulgence of government. No people in the history of the world have sacrificed as much for liberty. The lives of hundreds of thousands of America's sons and daughters were laid down during the last century to preserve freedom, for us and for freedom loving people throughout the world. America took nothing from that Century's terrible wars - no land from Germany or Japan or Korea; no treasure; no oath of fealty. America's resolve in the defense of liberty has been tested time and again. It has not been found wanting, nor must it ever be. America must never falter in holding high the banner of freedom.

"These American values, this great moral heritage, is shared and lived in my religion as it is in yours. I was taught in my home to honor God and love my neighbor. I saw my father march with Martin Luther King. I saw my parents provide compassionate care to others, in personal ways to people nearby, and in just as consequential ways in leading national volunteer movements. I am moved by the Lord's words: 'For I was an hungered, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: naked, and ye clothed me...'

"My faith is grounded on these truths. You can witness them in Ann and my marriage and in our family. We are a long way from perfect and we have surely stumbled along the way, but our aspirations, our values, are the self-same as those from the other faiths that stand upon this common foundation. And these convictions will indeed inform my presidency.

"Today's generations of Americans have always known religious liberty. Perhaps we forget the long and arduous path our nation's forbearers took to achieve it. They came here from England to seek freedom of religion. But upon finding it for themselves, they at first denied it to others. Because of their diverse beliefs, Ann Hutchinson was exiled from Massachusetts Bay, a banished Roger Williams founded Rhode Island, and two centuries later, Brigham Young set out for the West. Americans were unable to accommodate their commitment to their own faith with an appreciation for the convictions of others to different faiths. In this, they were very much like those of the European nations they had left.

"It was in Philadelphia that our founding fathers defined a revolutionary vision of liberty, grounded on self evident truths about the equality of all, and the inalienable rights with which each is endowed by his Creator.

"We cherish these sacred rights, and secure them in our Constitutional order. Foremost do we protect religious liberty, not as a matter of policy but as a matter of right. There will be no established church, and we are guaranteed the free exercise of our religion.

"I'm not sure that we fully appreciate the profound implications of our tradition of religious liberty. I have visited many of the magnificent cathedrals in Europe. They are so inspired ... so grand ... so empty. Raised up over generations, long ago, so many of the cathedrals now stand as the postcard backdrop to societies just too busy or too 'enlightened' to venture inside and kneel in prayer. The establishment of state religions in Europe did no favor to Europe's churches. And though you will find many people of strong faith there, the churches themselves seem to be withering away.

"Infinitely worse is the other extreme, the creed of conversion by conquest: violent Jihad, murder as martyrdom... killing Christians, Jews, and Muslims with equal indifference. These radical Islamists do their preaching not by reason or example, but in the coercion of minds and the shedding of blood. We face no greater danger today than theocratic tyranny, and the boundless suffering these states and groups could inflict if given the chance.

"The diversity of our cultural expression, and the vibrancy of our religious dialogue, has kept America in the forefront of civilized nations even as others regard religious freedom as something to be destroyed.

"In such a world, we can be deeply thankful that we live in a land where reason and religion are friends and allies in the cause of liberty, joined against the evils and dangers of the day. And you can be certain of this: Any believer in religious freedom, any person who has knelt in prayer to the Almighty, has a friend and ally in me. And so it is for hundreds of millions of our countrymen: we do not insist on a single strain of religion - rather, we welcome our nation's symphony of faith.

"Recall the early days of the First Continental Congress in Philadelphia, during the fall of 1774. With Boston occupied by British troops, there were rumors of imminent hostilities and fears of an impending war. In this time of peril, someone suggested that they pray. But there were objections. 'They were too divided in religious sentiments', what with Episcopalians and Quakers, Anabaptists and Congregationalists, Presbyterians and Catholics.

"Then Sam Adams rose, and said he would hear a prayer from anyone of piety and good character, as long as they were a patriot.

"And so together they prayed, and together they fought, and together, by the grace of God ... they founded this great nation.

"In that spirit, let us give thanks to the divine 'author of liberty.' And together, let us pray that this land may always be blessed, 'with freedom's holy light.'

"God bless the United States of America."

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About The Author

Mitt Romney served as the Governor of Massachusetts from 2003-2007 and is a candidate for the Republican presidential nomination in 2008. His campaign website for campaign news and volunteer activities is http://www.mittromney.com/

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Do Atheists Have Place In America?

Romney Spokesman Won’t Say If Atheists Have Place In America

I do believe in God and think our Country was based on faith in God. With that said, nothing in the constitution forces anyone to believe in any particular religion or be forced to believe in God. Do we really want to be a theocracy like Iraq?

TPM-A spokesman for the Mitt Romney campaign is thus far refusing to say whether Romney sees any positive role in America for atheists and other non-believers, after Election Central inquired about the topic yesterday

READ MORE

http://controlcongress.com/uncategorized/romney-faith-speec h

lonestar--I went to mittromney.com for $
answers to your question:

"what, as a conservative, does he want to do to cut spending and reduce government?"

Here are a few excerpts from Romney's official website (www.mittromney.com):

"Politicians from both parties in Washington, D.C. have spent too much money on too many programs for far too long. We must establish strict spending limits, conduct a stem-to-stern review of the federal government, reform entitlements and institute the line-item veto if we’re going to bring fiscal discipline and strong management back to Washington."

GOVERNOR ROMNEY: "I believe that we are overtaxed and government is overfed. Washington is spending too much money." (Governor Mitt Romney, Remarks At Presidential Announcement, 2/13/07)

GOVERNOR ROMNEY: "I had occasions to be in the turnaround business… And I'd like to get my hands on Washington. It needs to be taken completely apart, with every program and agency evaluated for effectiveness and efficiency. Every business does that or goes bankrupt. But Washington seems to get larger and larger every year." (Peter Hecht, "Political Conversion," Sacramento Bee, 3/15/07)

Paul Faith Should Not be an Issue
Ron Paul: Romney’s Faith Should Not be an Issue

“We live in times of great uncertainty when men of faith must stand up for American values and traditions before they are washed away in a sea of fear and relativism. I have never been one who is particularly comfortable talking about my faith in the political arena, and I find the pandering that typically occurs in the election season to be distasteful.

READ MORE

http://controlcongress.com/uncategorized/romney-faith-speec h


budbud
"Their 'lack of faith' is THEIR religious beliefs."

Explain that, how lacking faith is having faith. It defies logic.

TriciaCT
"There is only so much a Republican Governor can do in a LIBERAL STATE like MA, with an overwhelmingly liberal DEM legislature."

That could well be so. Shouldn't blame him for what the legislature does.

My impression is he wants to change government (seems they all do), what, as a conservative, does he want to do to cut spending and reduce goverment?

boomshak observed
that Gov Romney is a great speaker, but not so good in debates. Whether it's that he doesn't think in 30 second soundbites, I don't know. I suspect it's because he's pretty cautious about retorting off the cuff. I don't think it's a personal flaw of any kind (might be just the reverse) but I do think it would be a major liability in the general election.
I haven't changed my mind based on the speech and won't be voting for him the the primary, but will if he's the nominee and think he'd make a fine president.

Jim
The fact that you have "done your homework" entitles you to declare that mormonism doesn't work FOR YOU. Not that it doesn't work.
Declaring something a false religion based on your own homework is pretty arrogant anyway.
So what do you declare to be the ONE TRUE religion?

will
You seem a little confused. On the one hand, you wanted an in depth explanation of mormonism. On the other, you say you think it should be private. Which is it?

It was a great speech though
Despite my reservations about voting for Romney, I must admit it was an excellent speech.

Romney's problems are not his religion..
Instead, they are his complicancy in the Mass. health insurance mandate. A terrible idea if there ever was one. In Tennessee we had a similar program (TennCare) and it is a disaster.

Romney's change of ideas have come very late in the game. Furthermore, his past record of ambiguity on "gay marriage", and support of tax increases won't help him either.

Opportunistic is Right!
cornpone harry writes:
...And worse, he's also an opportunistic flip flopper ...


Exactly. I can't understand why more people don't see this. The man is very smart, and he is a success junkie.

He has a history of success and seemingly knows how to succeed at anything. He knows how to "play the game" so to speak, and it seems as if, as long as he comes out successfull, the ends justifies any means.

I don't think he gives a rat's a** about abortion, gay rights, either way. I think he'll say whatever needs to be said about either issue depending on the attitueds of the voters he has to woo in any given race. He's demonstrated this. Look at what he said on these issues while campaigning in Mass. People don't just do a 180 change on such things at his age. It's not logical. It's not believable. The man is a complete opportunist.

His speech was completely oxymoronic. On the one hand he's pleading for religious liberty and for not letting religion get in the way of HIS political chances.

He's pleading to not be discriminated against for HIS faith beliefs. Then, in the same speech, he attacks atheists and secularists. Guess what Mitt? That's THEIR faith beliefs. He then started saying we SHOULD mix religion, politics and the public sphere.

Well what is it Mitt? Do we mix or not mix? You can't say that people should consider religion in their political choices and then at the same time say that it would be wrong for them to consider YOUR religon.

Stating that those lacking in faith are the problem? Their "lack of faith" is THEIR religious beliefs. The entire speech boiled down to "don't discriminate against me, but it's o.k. if you discriminate against THEM".

So...convoluted.

romney nothing but platitudes and PC
Romney's speech was full of platitudes and tired cliches, and feel good liberal PC.

But it did nothing to address the concerns evangelical Christians have about the bizarre beliefs of the mormon cult.

I will not be voting for Mitt for the same reasons I would not vote for a Wiccan, a Voodoo practitioner, a Muslim, or a person who believes he has been abducted by Aliens.

Why? Because any man who could believe all this, and not intellectually question it
is not someone who has the judgment necessary to be President of this nation in a time of crisis.

And worse, he's also an opportunistic flip flopper who cannot be trusted to protect the unborn:

As a 1994 U.S. Senate candidate, he said he had believed for nearly a quarter century that abortion should be "safe and legal."

Yet by 2001, the Salt Lake City Tribune quoted him as saying, "I do not wish to be labeled pro-choice."

A year later, running for governor in Massachusetts, Romney was definitely Pro-choice and promised he would not touch any abortion law. During a candidate's debate, he was so firmly Pro-choice, he renounced an endorsement from Massachusetts' Citizens for Life.

But, last year in South Carolina, a modern day miracle occurred. Romney declared, "I am firmly Pro-life...I was always for life."

Yeah, right, if you buy that you will probably also buy his "I am a lifelong hunter lie, and his bogus federal mandatory universal health care fraud.


What Christian Religion
I really liked Gov Romneys speech. he clearly articulated that the leadres of his church would not make the dcisions of government. He professed a love of God, Tolerance for all religions, and the core VALUES that are what I look for in a candidate.

He did manage to cut taxes in a very liberal state. He also has a proven track record of working with Dems. he is solid on Defense and the War against Islamic Extremisim.

He does have some big spending ways. I am concerned about some of his wavering and flip flop.

Rudy is very Liberal (but a good man in a tight spot as 9/11 showed but is that enough), and I get NO inspiration by anything Fred has done as a campaigner or past carreer.

Hunter and Tancredo are good but have little chance.

That leaves Gov Huckabee. He raised taxes numerous times and is a huge nanny state guy who would try to use his Presidency for social change which is NOT what I want (all though I Know some of you do).

As I read the comments I saw several people write that Christianity is the one true religion. very confusing to me because I say which Christianity? Baptist, catholic, lutheran, episcopalian, Snake Charmer, pentacosal, protestant, puritan, quaker, amish, 7th day adventist, Mormon, and the list goes on? If it was all so straight forward as people claim then why the differences?
Tinsldr2@yahoo.com

The Bush family likes this guy, that
is enough for me to reject him fully. Because this probably means he is cozy with the Council on Foreign Relation types, the globalists, and the aggressive interventionists.

Bush 41 and 43 promoted religion and had good families and what they have done to this country almost makes promoting such things a vulgarity and a thing to fear.

I do not trust people this rich.

When I see Romney, I see a Bill Clinton with and intact functional family and that is the only difference I see.

Republicans would be fools to buy this mans goods. We have excellent candidates who were more conservative than Romney for a lot longer and will not no problem beating the unelectable Hillary or Obama.

And I don't think ANYONE thought Romney was going to impose Mormonism on the country. This is a straw man argument hauled out (mostly by the press) into the conversation to distract the public from Romney's negatives: buying his candidacy, shallow conservative record, Bill Clinton parsing, and ties to the eastern, big-monied, globalist republican elite.

BOO HISS

Then they wonder.
Romney pulls crap like this, with the support of the GOP, and then the GOP wonders why it's consistently percieved as a party of bigots, generation after generation. Generations come and go. Social beliefs change with different generations, almost always getting progressively more liberal.

I can't wait for the tipping point, where the GOP is shamed out of being "the anti-gay party". It's pretty close already. I just read today that Hispanics are overwhelmingly going Democrat too! Dems now have the blacks, hispanics, women, gays, asians, Jews, other minority faiths, the poor, feminists, Union members, the 45 Million without healthcare, disabled, residents of the large cities etc.

The GOP has white men, fundamentalist Christians and the rich. Whites are not projected to remain in the majority in the U.S. and are already the minority in some states. Fundies are experiencing a public backlash, as many people are tired of their endless, harassive prosylatizing. The rich will always be a minorty. The GOP big tent is getting ever smaller and smaller.

NOT TRUE ACTION
Action writes:
Romney gave the "religion" speech to divert people's attention away from the fact he illegally imposed "gay marriage" violating his oath of office as governor of Massachusetts



As a gay man, I can tell you that this is simply NOT true!

The Mass.S.C. told the government that barring gays from marrying was against the equal protections provided for residents IN THE MASSACHUSETS STATE CONSTITUTION.

By the time he won the governorship, Mitt knew he was going to run for president as a GOPer. He also knew that in order to run nationally on the GOP ticket, he would have to be seen as openly and actively hostile and mean to gays in order to win favor with many GOPers in the South and Heartland.

This was a flip flop from Mitts earlier campaign promises to be a better friend to gays than Ted Kennedy! Who knows what he really believes. I think he is nothing more than an opportunist. At least Rudy doesn't pretend to have suddenly "seen the light" on all these issues, sometime in his fifties, and just in time to run for president for the GOP. It's just not believable. People don't go around doing a complete 180 on all these issues at that age.

What actually speaks more to Romneys character is what he did after marriage was opened to all in Mass. He wanted to stop out of state gays from coming to Mass. to get married.

Mass.(surprise) was one of the first states to allow interracial marriage. Because most other states baulked at having to recognize interracial marriages performed in Mass., Mass adopted a state law in 1913 which barred people from having a marriage in Mass., if that marriage would ultimately be illegal in their home state.

The law was still on the books and Romney revived it and used it against gays! It went to the Mass. S.C. and they upheld the law.

Romney actually used a relic of our racist past to punish and hurt another minority group! The man is shameless. WWJD Mitt?

Romney's 15 mins almost up
Romney gave the "religion" speech to divert people's attention away from the fact he illegally imposed "gay marriage" violating his oath of office as governor of Massachusetts http://www.massresistance.org/docs/marriage/romney/dec_let ter/letter.pdf and signed a healthcare bill after his supposed "pro-life" awakening that included abortion on demand http://www.mass.gov/Qhic/docs/cc_benefits1220_pt234.pdf.

The reason Romney is 4th or 5th depending on the polls nationally is because people know his liberal record and lack of honesty and integrity. People see him as a used car salesman. It's not his religion. That is not the reason he is at 10% nationally in the polls. People don't trust this devious serpent who violated his oath to uphold the Massachusetts Constitution written by John Adams and man he had the gall to cite in his "speech." Fortunately this charade is almost over. But those who have shilled for Mitt-chief among them Hugh Hewitt- will have to be exposed for their complicity in supressing Romney's record.

Do Mormons WORSHIP Jesus?
BG everyone ot the quotes you use is taken out of Context.

The disiples worshipped Jesus. Do Mormons worship Jesus as God?

YES or NO?

GOP loses without Mormons
Mormons are about 4-5 % of the the GOP. If the GOP insults the Mormons enough it is possible enough will sit out. That is especially true if an anti Mormon candidate heads the GOP.

Way back in the mid late 1800s the vast majority of Mormons were Democrats. Lincoln was tolerant of the Mormons. After that the Dems were more tolerant and the GOP tended to be hostile. After the end of Polygamy the GOP started to gain strength.

religious liberty?

Roger Williams, who was first founded Rhode Island the first colony to extend religiuos liberty- who Mitt referenced today:

In Williams' "A Plea for Religious Liberty", he writes:

"it is the will and command of God that (since the coming of his Son the Lord Jesus) a permission of the most paganish, Jewish, Turkish, or antichristian consciences and worships, be granted to all men in all nations and countries"

BUT ALSO

It is as necessary, yea more honorable, godly, and Christian, to fight the fight of faith, with religious and spiritual artillery, and to contend earnestly for the faith of Jesus, once delivered to the saints against all opposers, and the gates of earth and hell, men or devils, yea against Paul himself, OR AN ANGEL FROM HEAVEN(MORONI?)or , IF HE BRING ANY OTHER FAITH OR DOCTRINE....(emphasis mine)
He is quoting from the New Testament book of Galations Chapter 1:v 7.

While he affirms religious liberty he also affirms the right to oppose beliefs (NON-VIOLENTLY)with the Word of God.



Who needs enemies?
This election is a change election, and one of the changes will be that Mormons are going to realize that they don't have an interest in supporting a party that takes their support for granted and then throws them under the bus when it's convenient. Mormons will remember more strongly that they were not allowed to participate in the national day of prayer following September 11th because some evangelical Christians didn't deem them worthy. They will remember that when asked if Mormons are Christians, Mike Huckabee punted rather than saying what he honestly thought.

Jimmy Carter left the Southern Baptist convention, in part, because he didn't think anyone but God had the right to decide who was Christian and who wasn't.

If I were a Democratic politician in the West, I'd be paying very close attention right now. This trend may only be trickle, but I predict that it will become a torrent and Mormons will realize they are better off somewhere besides the GOP, taking the intermountain west and every subsequent presidential election away from God's Own Party.

It's only natural for Mormons to feel this way--with friends like the "Christian" right, who needs enemies?

I'm a Democrat, so I fully welcome this change. It's morning in America.


With friends like this . . .
Disclaimer: I am not a Romney supporter, but I do see in the Christian right's treatment of him a tipping point.

The reaction of the religious right against Romney shows why the Republican party will never be a majority party again, at least until it reformulates itself as something other than a group based on the "in" group and "out" group. There have become too few who are pure enough to be "in" and too many who are unworthy and therefore "out."

If Mormons are so bad, why does the GOP (God's Own Party) always count on their votes? Wouldn't that contaminate the holy (political) alliance? Perhaps the leaders of the Christian right have become so arrogant they don't think they need the Mormon vote anymore.

Of course, Pat Robertson can endorse Rudy Giuliani, whose personal conduct does not even qualify him to be an active participant in his faith.

But Pat could never endorse a Mormon. Why? Because he would be exposed for the political hack that he is if he were to endorse someone from a religion he has fallaciously labeled a cult. Better to endorse a serial adulterer who is pro gay rights, pro choice, and seems to enjoy the company of corrupt cronies. Endorsing a Mormon would ruin Pat's credibility. Ummm, yeah--mission accomplished.

Big Daddy, Paula Jo & lonestarblues & Co
Con4fred (and others who believe Romney is not conservative)-- Mitt Romney IS a true Conservative, socially as well as politically.

There is only so much a Republican Governor can do in a LIBERAL STATE like MA, with an overwhelmingly liberal DEM legislature.

Would you prefer that Republicans just give up and not RUN a candidate in the dyed-in-the-wool liberal states?

Or, when elected in such a state, is such a governor supposed to act like a DICTATOR and try to overrule the separation of powers?

Backfired for me
I basically was taking the "no religious test" view to Romney's candidacy, until this speech.

Romney said that his views on liberty are shaped by his faith, which is one of the most legalistic and repressive of all Christian sects. So, for me, he would do better to focus on talking about his plans for healthcare (he has some great ideas), and stop talking about his cult.

Re: Will 9:15pm
Thats fair, I reread your statement and I misquoted you. My apologies.

Evangelicals aren't a voting bloc in that they all vote for the same candidate, but I think we can agree that a large majority of them vote the same way. Some go democrat, some go for centrists, but most don't.

I'm with you though, this race gets more interesting by the day.

to all responding to mjashley

It's not too fun when someone insults your candidate now is it?

That's how Ron Paul supporters feel all the time, and it's why we can get nasty with our replies as some of you have.

But seriously, why was this speech even news. Does his religion affect anyone? How about a speech on sound monetary policy, protecting our borders or getting rid of the IRS. Oh yeah, forgot who I was talking about. Pretty hair and smile though.

Bravado
No, I was saying that the GENERAL PUBLIC, not the evangelicals, seem willing to forgive Rudy his marital infidelities & socially liberal positions. Once he makes it through Iowa, DESPITE WHO WINS, he can move onto New Hampshire, then, after that, conservatively- liberal California republicans (I'm from California; CA conservatives are quite different from Iowa conservatives). The primaries are only weeks, and, in some cases, days apart. Rudy has money to weather a few storms & outright losses.

I speak not as an evangelical. One thing I have learned in the past few years is that the evangelicals may be a perceived bloc, but they are not, voting-wise. And this election is showing the divisions (or individualness) among the quote-unquote faithfull. Some are comfortable with Romney's "mormonism", others are highly suspect. Some would go along in a general election & vote for whoever the republican nominee is, others are opting for a third-party candidate as we speak (type). A minority will vote democrat. It is a strange election this time around. Mormon, black, woman. The crunched-up primaries. Almost 3-way ties among the top tier candidates in both parties. Perceived front-runners (Giuliani, Clinton) that are not stable any longer. A surge that seems to be working militarily, though not politically. Iran suspending its nuclear ambitions in 2003 has upended potential rhetoric & strategies.

It WILL be an interesting next 60 days!

CT
Flip-flop, yada yada yada. So tell me, did you vote for Reagan? As the governor of California, Reagan signed a 1967 law that allowed abortions in the state six years before the Supreme Court legalized them nationwide. As President, Reagan was profoundly pro-life. Did Reagan flip flop or did he "mature" on the issue of abortion?

If you are waiting for the perfect candidate, you will die before you cast your next vote.

It's in the Constitution
there will be no religious test for political office...oh, wait, they don't teach about the US Constitution in skrewl anymore.

Even if he was a Good Catholic Boy (not like America's Mayor) I still wouldn't vote for him. A Massachusetts Republican is a slightly left-of-center Democrat.

Re: Will 5:47pm
Will said: "In other words, [evangelicals] seem willing to forgive [Giuliani's] marital infidelities & socially liberally positions. And the reason is: HE HAS NOT TRIED TO PORTRAY HIMSELF AS SOMETHING OTHER THAN HE IS."

"At least you feel satisfied that Giuliani's positions are not going to contort depending on the audience."

Seriously, the logic behind these statements is astounding. So let me make sure I understand you. What you are saying is Giuliani has socially liberal positions. And evangelicals are satisfied with that because even though he holds the wrong positions, he will at least hold steadfastly to those wrong positions. Is that really the argument you want to make?

Despite the obvious persuasiveness of your position, I'd rather have a candidate that is willing to adopt correct positions and disavow incorrect ones. Calling Romney a flipflopper, is a misnomer, and a cheapshot. At most he could be called a flipper. He has moved to the right on some social issues. But he hasn't flopped back to the left. He has moved to the right, where he intends to stay. Its kind of like Reagan all over again.

My advice to you, don't hitch your trailer to the wrong guy simply because he is consistently headed in the wrong direction.

Anti-Mormon Wackos
I am not a Mormon.

I don't believe what they believe: in fact I think that they are completely mistaken in their theology.

I am not an expert in their faith, but when I first became a Christian, I visited a LDS church, and I have known quite a few Mormons over the years.

Unlike Evangelical Christians, Mormons have to work their way into Heaven. Becaus of this, they constantly strive to be moral, cultured, decent, kind, cheerful, courteous, faithful, and godly.

It is a heavy burden on their shoulders, but they seem to take it seriously. Often, they make better citizens than the rest of us, who try to be good out of love for God, but often take it for granted the saying, "once saved, always saved." There is great comfort for me in having Eternal Security, and I am ever so grateful for the confidenct I have in my salvation, but I can see that when the pressure to perform is off, I may not strive as much to be my very best.

If anyone is going to try and do his very best, it is a Mormon, because in his mind, eternity depends upon it.

It's not his Mormomism
that's bothers me as much as his flip-flopping on issues.

Re: SteveL 6:24pm
SteveL asked: "Who was the intended audience [of Romney's speech]?"

The answer is pretty simple. I just watched Hardball and they posted stats showing that nearly 50% of people are uncomfortable with a Mormon being President. Thems a lot of people ... so there is your answer. Make sense? Does everyone understand that by now?

Interestingly, they also showed stats indicating that around 25% are uncomfortable with a woman being President as well as around 25% being uncomfortable with a black as President. So you see, Romney is facing an uphill battle that no previous candidate has faced before. Worse than Clinton, and worse than Obama.

Whats even more interesting is that in JFK's 1960 speech, he said he looks forward to the day when people won't be discriminated against on religious grounds and hopes that the "religious voting bloc" (I'm obviously paraphrasing here) no longer exists. But when Romney's dad ran for President in 1968, only around 17% were uncomfortable with his Mormonism. In 1976 Mo Udall ran for President and no one even cared that he was Mormon. But now, there are 50% who don't like the idea. My, my, how far we've come.

There are currently somewhere around 16 Mormons who are elected officials on the national level. Seriously, can anyone name them ... even five of them, without looking it up? The Mormonism should be a nonissue, and yet for some reason it has now become more of an issue than it has been in the last 50 years. Impressive.

Great Speech
Mitt gave a fantastic speech today. He looked and sounded presidential in every way and the subsequent media attention has been phenomenal. If he wins the election, this will become one of the greatest speeches in the history of American politics. If he loses, its status won't be as great, but it will always remain a pretty dang good speech.

It was appropriate that he didn't go into doctrine in his speech. Some have whined here that he didn't go far enough in explaining his doctrines, but those people all oppose his candidacy anyway, so it wouldn't make any difference. His reference to Christ was sufficient, and his defiant statement that he is willing to sacrifice his shot at the presidency to stand by his religion was beautiful. And you haters didn't think the man had principle.

I know some have dropped turds in this thread in order to marginalize Romney (jim, mjashley, etc.), but the speech, and the man who gave it, speak for themselves.

If Christians Can Not Live as Christians
... What then?
--
Jim writes:
Thursday, December, 06, 2007 7:00 PM
Response
--
Jim, if you know so much, you should be able to live it. Why do you us the devils tools? Why not give Christ’s way a try. It may well start with Matthew Chapter 5. God bless you with his spirit to discern.

I have read a lot of bad press from among many wonderful comments here. It is disturbing to see it taking place in real time.

I would not think the I could trust anyone who is so petty and false in their accusations, while not giving a shred of valid proof.

Is that the road to peace on earth good will to all men? So you say you want peace, when you do not walk the walk, or even talk the talk?

How will the rest of the world look upon us all

Great Speech
That makes me want to support Mitt all the more. He is an American, who happens to be LDS, and he is running for president. He has strong faith, strong leadership, and would make this country stronger. Even though I am not old enough to vote, I will support Mitt the best I can.
Anyone who is not voting for him because of his relgion, get over it. There are more Mormons around than you know, many whom you probably like/support. Yes we do have some differences from others, but none of those differences are a bad thing, and would be a plus in a President.

will
"You say you don't like 'big government conservatives' like there is a viable alternative."

Agreed, perhaps when approval ratings get down into the teens Americans will wake up and look for an alternative.

"I am not necessarily a Ron Paul guy, but Ron Paul is the sole 'small government conservative' on the playing field."

True, and as of now he'll gey my vote, but he's not, imo, a viable candidate. The notion of nonintervention seems to play well with domestic policy but not foreign for too many.

As We Are We Judge All Things
“mjashley wrote:
Thursday, December, 06, 2007 11:58 AM
The truth is not petty

Romney did campaign at a gay pride parade-”
---
A Spicy Response:
Mitt's own faith and all faiths have experienced intolerance. It is a human failing because of ignorance and fear.

Your own intolerance is no different.

I personally do not agree with the gay lifestyle, but I will not persecute them or treat them with disrespect. This ignorance that surrounds this challenge to our society is further hampered by those who would exploit them and use them for their own ends, as they do to all people who find themselves addicted and morally compromised.
---
Was Christ a Racist Because He Said ...
"I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel"

22 And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou Son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.
23 But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us.
24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
25 Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.
26 But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs.
27 And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table.
28 Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour.
(Matthew 15:22 - 28)

"It is a hard thing to be a judge."

Rock-head Jones: You still here?


Remember:

1) No one cares what you think.

2) We're not laughing WITH you, we're laughing AT you.




Tiresome Jimbo
When will you give it a rest? Mormons believe that we are all children of God and that we all have the potential for eternal progression. It may take eons of time post-mortem, but we can progress to divine levels. So what? Why does this torment you so? And if God did not and cannot progress, then how do you explain Luke 2:52 "And Jesus INCREASED in wisdom and statutre, and in favor with God and man." Since, under the "mainstream" view of the Trinity, God and Jesus and the Holy Ghost are all the same, how could God/Jesus/HG increase in wisdom and still be an omniscient and perfect God?

There are 2 basic problems here: (1) You argue about religious doctrines as if you knew all the mysteries of heaven. We all have such limited understandings of the divine. It is the height of hubris to act as if we have all the answers given our puny knowledge. (2) Stop arguing on TH about Mitt's and Mormon's beliefs. It is irrelevant to whether he is qualified for the office of president. Argue about his policy positions, his changed positions, his obvious business acumen, his "perfect" marriage and family. But, for pity's sake, stop arguing over Mormon doctrine. If you think Mormons are idiots headed to hell, then bring it up at your Sunday School class and give us some rest.

With everything that's said today....
what makes this race so interesting (from just an analytical perspective) is that NOBODY KNOWS WHO is going to get the nomination. At least among Romney, Giuliani, Huckabee and...stretching here...McCain. I think it is fair to say at this point that Thompson has imploded. I feel so sorry for Mary Matalin (is that her name? the one married to liberal James Carville?) She is heavily involved in Thompson's campaign & she shows up on "Meet the Press" & has to act like things are going GREAT & swimming. With Thompson all but knocked out of the race, and all the panelists on "Meet the Press" aware of it. But Mary's the trooper.

On the dem side, Hillary is no longer the inevitable candidate. Even on MSNBC & Air America, they are becoming increasingly suspicious of her electability. EVERYTHING is fluid.

That's why there's this whole other dimension going on when people come here & express their opinions. Underneath the statements & opinions, NOBODY has a clue what's going to happen. Which makes all the day-to-day "revelations" & leaks in the press so interesting. At any point, somebody's candidate could get seriously derailed. And this is the month when the inter-party attacks happen.

Response
BG
I have read the Bible in its entirety numerous times as well as the Book of Mormon, D & C, and the Pearl of Great Price. I have studied and cross-referenced the claims made in the Book of Mormon, D& C, and the PGP with the Bible. Through this in-depth study, I have concluded that Mormonism is a false religion. I have also discussed this issue with several former members of the LDS Church who have done their own research and reading and have come to the same conclusion. I live in an area of the country that has a high concentration of Mormons. I have discussed Mormon theology with them and they don't have answers to the bizzare theological Morman tenets as Kolob and man evolving into a God of their own kingdom. In short, I've done my homework. Your religion doesn't work. Sorry.

uisignorant writes:
Look who is not voting Mitt..
I guess he will not get the athiest vote...

Even You, the athiest, will get respect from Mitt. Because as we all know, athiesism is also a religion.

Jim
We realize that the Protestants have reasons for believing what they believe. We read our Bibles and have a decent idea of what is in them.

We are hoping that the Protestants who have been exposed to the anti Mormon stuff will think before they swallow it as the truth. If Mormon Doctrine are as outrageous as they portray it and if Mormon Doctrine had no Biblical foundation (alternate interpretation to some Protestants) why would the church be growing? Why would it be as large as it is?

All we ask is that everyone give us a reasonable chance to explain what we actually believe and why we believe it. We know that most people will not join.

We also know that there is an anti Mormon spin machine that distorts our image and ideas. We are tired of all of the distortions.

They do the exact same thing to the Catholics and several other denominations. If all else fails they attack other Protestants.

Go to mormon.org, lds.org or call or write the PR dept. in SL if you have a question. You will get a straight answer.

Target Market
There is about 1/2 of the actual Rep voters who will go with a perceived winner. Romney was aiming at them. As Rudy and Fred and both dropped about 10 points each Huck has pick them up. A lot of them are not Huck loyal.

Romney tends to have the 20 % of the Evangelicals, many of the non Evangelical Protestants and some Catholic. He needs more Catholics but mostly he needs those fluid voters who shift with the winds of fortune.

Fred has some of them. Huck has some of them. Rudy had a lot of them. They are not loyal.They want a winner. If scandal hits Huck they will abandon him. McCain has some also.

What made Rudy front runner for so long was the idea that he would can could win. That is shattering now. He will be beaten back into his core. Whether Huck can keep all of his gains is tenuous. There is going to be more shifting as this heats up.

Easily
Perhaps easily is not the right word. Rudy is formidable. However, he is not doing well in the first 5 primaries and his national numbers in the RAS poll are 17-18. That is to low nationally to survive losing the first 5 primaries. I am assuming Romney and or Huck are going to win the first 5. That may prove to be heroic.

I expect Rudy to go all the way to the convention. He and Romney have the money and the organization. The others don't.

I am waiting to see if Huck can raise 20-40 million in the next couple of months. I am also waiting to see what happens to Huck's final numbers when he settles back from this boom. He has literally claimed he is God's candidate. I am paraphrasing slightly but I saw him on the video clips and Huck is off of the wall on the Divine appointment thing.

If Rudy's numbers improve in NH and when I see several good polls in MI so we know what the true state of nature is, I may change my assessment. I expect Rudy to adapt. He is a tough seasoned politician and good at it. He also has a bad scandal and maybe more to come.

Who was the intended audience?
Whenever I've had to give a talk on any subject, the first thing I have to figure out is: Who is the intended audience? Whom am I trying to reach?

And for this Romney speech, the answer to that question has always been unclear.

Was Romney trying to win back the Huckabee supporters? If so, he can forget it: Surveys show that 2/3 of Huck's supporters are Christian evangelicals, and with them a Mormon candidate will lose out to a Baptist pastor every time. Once Huck became regarded as a viable candidate, Romney lost the evangelical vote.

Was Romney trying to win undecided Republicans? Or lure away some Rudy supporters like myself? If so, he can forget it too: By now, all the Christian evangelicals are busily signing up with Huck. Those of us who are undecided or Rudy supporters aren't interested in this whole Mormon issue anyway.

I'm a Rudy supporter. If Romney wants me to switch to him, he has to give a whole different kind of speech, dealing with a whole different bunch of issues.

Romney
He gave a fine speech...

But I'm still voting for Huckabee. If the nominee, though, Romney will have my vote.

BG
Don't know why you dismiss Giuliani so easily. First, he has lots of cash still. Second, the general public (as opposed to the evangelicals in certain primary-important states) seems willing to forgive a heck of a lot in Giuliani that might not fly in other candidates.

In other words, they seem willing to forgive his marital infidelities & socially liberally positions. And the reason is: HE HAS NOT TRIED TO PORTRAY HIMSELF AS SOMETHING OTHER THAN HE IS. Romney, on the other hand, reminds me of those green Gumby dolls. He will contort himself one way to make it through the primaries, another way to make it through the general. The nuance of his positions, if not the entire position, will twist & sway in the wind, depending on the audience. He is more similar to Hilary in this respect. They both believe that this is a strategy that can work.

I'm not even saying this to impugn his character. It's EVIDENT. A self-evident truth at this point. His positions are Gumby-ish, Hilary's too. At least you feel satisfied that Giuliani's positions are not going to contort depending on the audience. On the dem side, John Edwards' positions (love him or hate him) have been the same all along also.

Hawk
Hawk:

Being "heirs of God" and "offspring" of God, does not make us Gods. The fact that man was made in the image of God does not make us Gods.

But, believe what you want to believe. Have fun on Kolob. I'm just saying that I have the right to reject Gov. Romney as a presidential candidate based on his religious belief. He has every right to practice that religion if he wants to. This is America, but I'm not a religious bigot if I draw conclusions regarding his beliefs and reject his candidacy based on those conclusions. That is my right as an American.

Great speech
Why? Because in Mitt's place, given his background, Giuliani would look droll.

Rudy is not a moral man and his references to Catholicism is merely for image and his dealings with some of its disgraced prelates for personal privileges has contributed to and encouraged its corruption.

Romney looks and sounds credible delivering this speech and it will go a long way toward sidetracking the Huckster and assuaging the fears of the devout. And, as we approach Christmas, the timing couldn't have been better.

A good speech which...
...drew on the principled foundation of this nation, its growth, and its strengths. A candidate on the left could never use those points, has they are of "change". We hear their top candidates pounding a "change" to re-diaper their factions. You'll watch them mess all over themselves spewing out their diarrhea, while their base soaks up the mess. Liberal rags, and wet-vacs, wringing out the slop, and sucking it up, has they try to "change" the flavor. Their strength is in the speculative addition of flavors to create equality. The strength of our foundation is equality already recognized, to enable continued prosperity for the nation.

Jim
Christ is quoting himself as Jehovah of the Old Testament since there is not higher authority to the Jews. I am well aware of the context.

I thought you took the Bible literally. Christ is telling the Jews that in the OT he called them gods because they received the word of God (Jehovah).

Jim - John 10:34-35
How about Romans 8:16-17 (which refers to us a "heirs of God" and "Joint-Heirs with Christ")...

What about the numerous scriptures that refer to God as "Our Father" and even more-specifically Acts 17:28-29 which refers to us as the "offspring" of God.

In John 10:34-35 - Jesus is actually quoting Psalms 82:6 - which not only says "ye are gods" but says so in the context of referencing us as "children of the most high" (or in other words - children of God.)

If you read the bible a little more, you might find mormon doctrines are not as "unbiblical" as you think.





This Won't Help Romney.
I fear this speech won't help Romney too much if at all. Surprisingly, it may hurt him.

Strangely, in the context of making a speech, stressing the importance of not letting religion influence politics, Romney starts stating his religious beliefs. Why was he stressing that Mormonism IS a Christian faith? Why was he stressing that JESUS IS his savior? If religious belief is irrelevant to politics, why is he laying out his privately held beliefs?

His great "let's not discriminate on faith speech" left out consideration and room for people of other faiths! He left out Atheists, Agnostics, Buddhists, Hindus, liberal Christians, etc.

I would dare say that Americans have a better feelings towards Buddhism than they do towards Mormonism.


Ron
"Christian doctrine does not say that a believer becomes a god. That is pure nonsense."


Gen. 3: 22 (Moses 4: 28) man is become as one of us.
Lev. 19: 2 (1 Pet. 1: 16) be holy: for I . . . am holy.
Ps. 8: 6 madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands.
Ps. 82: 6 ye are gods, and all of you are children of the most High.
Matt. 5: 48 (3 Ne. 12: 48) Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father.
Luke 24: 39 spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
John 10: 34 (Ps. 82: 1-8; D&C 76: 58) Is it not written in your law . . . Ye are gods.
Acts 17: 29 we are the offspring of God.
Rom. 8: 17 heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ.
2 Cor. 3: 18 changed into the same image from glory to glory.
Gal. 4: 7 if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.
Eph. 4: 13 Till we all come . . . unto a perfect man.
Heb. 12: 9 be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live.
1 Jn. 3: 2 when he shall appear, we shall be like him.
Rev. 3: 21 him that overcometh will . . . sit with me in my throne.

"There can be one God only."
True, and no Mormon denies this.

Bashing Catholics
I got this from a site that bashes Catholics so you can take it for what it is worth. If it miss states Official Catholic Doctrine that would not surprise me. If it does not I would like to know the true source.

Start quote of anti Catholic site

"For the Son of man became man so that we might become God." Pg. 116, #460

"The only-begotten Son of God, wanting to make us sharers in his divinity, assumed our nature, so that he, made man, might make men gods." Pg. 116, #460

..."What are these quotes doing in the book of official Roman Catholic doctrine?

End quote of anti Catholic site

Can anyone tell me what book this is from and if this is really Catholic doctrine or just some nonsense some Catholic Basher twisted?

John 10:34-35
BG, you need to give the full context of the passage in John that you quoted.

Jesus is answering the Jews who are contempting stoning him because he "blasphemed" by claiming he was the Son of God. Your quote is misleading as are most Mormon attempts to rationalize their bizarre beliefs. This portion of scripture does not stand for the proposition that we are Gods. There is only one God.

It's Unfortunate, but...PART TWO
I had to pinch myself. Was this Ralph Reed, former head of the Christian Coalition saying such sensible, secularists things?

All of a sudden, when one of their own might have religious fervor and discrimination bite them on the but, all of a sudden, the GOP and the Religious Right has found the value in separation of church and state? This, from the "Reclaiming America For Christ" bunch? Can you say DIS-IN-GENU-OUS?

GOP. You can't have it both ways. You can't exploit religion and use it to your advantage on one day and then turn around and plead with voters not to consider religion when it would not be to your advantage. The GOP has been stirring the pot of religious discrimination, and irrational religious bigotry for years! All of a sudden, they want people to refrain from WWJD in politics?

That's rich. That's very rich! Go back to sh*t stirring between the faiths, and between believers and non believers. Go back to your imagined "war on Chrisitanity".

Just don't come here today with sensible, secularists talk, after everything you've been doing to the contrary for so long. You all created and continue to feed and nurture the religion and politics monster. Live with it.

It's Unfortunate, but...
It's unfortunate that Romney felt he had to give this speech. It's unfortunate that he had to essentially apologize for being Mormon. Unfortunately, Mitts having to fight a monster that HIS own party has created. It's the GOP that's spent the last 25 years mixing religion and politics, putting politicians to religious litmus tests, etc.

It's hysterical, now that public opinion has changed, and religious fervor and discrimination might actually hurt one of their own, how the talking heads of the religious right are falling over themselves to disavow the heart and soul of what they've been working for.

I was floored, watching before the speech, Ralph Reed on CNN give a speech that could've come out of the mouths of ANY ACLU lawyer!

Reed was up their saying stuff along the lines of we're electing a commander in chief, not a reverand... there should be no religious test for public office in the U.S., the Constitution strictly forbids it...none of us believe that any ONE religion should dominate the public affairs of the U.S....no politician should answer to his faith before the constitution, etc.

Ron
#
John 10: 34-35
34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

There are several other passages in the Bible. I should take time to find all of them.

However, I would point out that if we are like Christ when we see him, we share in all that the Father has, we are partakers of the Divine Nature, and we sit on the Father's Throne, we are gods and not angels. These are all NT scriptures. There are more but I do not remember them right now.

Fantastic speech
Amazing speech - the most touching line was the following where Mitt teared up. I teared up too - I really saw a lot of emotion from him today.

"Recall the early days of the First Continental Congress in Philadelphia, during the fall of 1774. With Boston occupied by British troops, there were rumors of imminent hostilities and fears of an impending war. In this time of peril, someone suggested that they pray. But there were objections. 'They were too divided in religious sentiments', what with Episcopalians and Quakers, Anabaptists and Congregationalists, Presbyterians and Catholics.

"Then Sam Adams rose, and said he would hear a prayer from anyone of piety and good character, as long as they were a patriot.

"And so together they prayed, and together they fought, and together, by the grace of God ... they founded this great nation.

Bob
If I am in error I will stand corrected. I try to be careful about stating others beliefs.

I think I read about the doctrine of Joint Heirship in the official Catholic Encyclopedia. I do not remember the name but I found it online a few weeks ago. It was an official Catholic site.

Years ago I was driving and was listening to Dr. James Kennedy of FL (I believe) preach on this subject. I was astounded to hear him speak identical doctrine to Mormon doctrine on the doctrine of Joint Heirship. The only difference is that he said that the saved would be angels. It was obvious after he went through all of the verses in the NT that you would be some type of god, but he, of course, could not say that.

Then is when I realized that the Protestants had the same doctrine with the only difference being angels instead of gods.

Who
Pretty soon this question will be ask. Who can best stop the Theocrat Huckabee.

It will not be Rudy. McCain does not have the money. Fred has a hard time campaigning. That leaves Romney. Besides Romney is going head to head with Huck in IA anyway.

lucky
So it is appropriate to talk about ones belkiefs about Jesus just up to the point in which Mormons are like traditional Christians, but not beyond that point. What a lucky break for Romney that turned out to be. If he was jewish that would be a lousy place to draw the line. But fortunately the line happens to be right where it most benefits Mormons.

Bet he breathed a sigh of relief when he realized that.

Huck Claims God did it
It is statements like these that make me believe that Huck is over positioning. This plays well at private religious college. However, he is not running for the Presidency of a Religious College.

He is deadly serious. This is going to wear thin and the MSM will start showing this pretty soon. Then the whole country will have to decide if he is God's chosen One for President. I guess Huck feels the rest of our votes don't count. I thought this was a democracy not a theocracy.

This is all over the lefty sites and on You Tube. How do you think the Dems will use this?

http://tpmelectioncentral.com/2007/12/huckabee_god_is_putti ng_me_ahead_in_the_polls.php

What explanation do you think Huck will give when he loses?

Mormon Doctrine
Christians believe that God was always God. Mormons don't, as is evidenced by the following quote:
"God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens!!! . . . We have imagined that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea and take away the veil, so that you may see" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 345)

The teachings of the founder of the LDS Church (Joseph Smith) has to constitute bedrock doctrine of the church.

The Bible directly contradicts this idea. God has always been God. Psalm 90:2; Isaiah 57:15.

Mormons would have so much more credibility if they wouldn't deny doctrine that is clearly different and contrary to Christian principles.

BG
I plan on voting for Mitt, but I have to correct you on something. You said that catholic and protestant teachings say we will become angels when we are saved? Where do they say that again?

Believe me, as a former Roman Catholic, I have no end of doctrinal issues with that church, but unless the Pope made an edict, Angels and Human beings are clearly described as mutually exclusive created beings. I never recall a single priest telling me I would become an angel when I died. I also can find no official protestant doctrine that makes such an assertion.

I know that TV and Film often have people becoming angels after death, but if this is official church doctrine, none of my priests or pastors over the years have been aware of it. In fact, most claim we will be set above the angels when we die.

Great Speech
I know there are plenty of liberals here that pose as conservatives to discredit Republican candidates and i'm not fooled. There are also some who play on the 'FEAR' that Mitt is a con and too slick - would he be acceptable if he ruffled his hair? Then there are the bigots - oh well.

Bottom line is Mitt made a speech which some people in this country needed to hear - and it was a great speech.

He Will
Go carefully read both Catholic and Protestant Doctrine on the Joint Heirship with Christ and look up all of the NT scriptures on that doctrine.

The idea that, if you are saved, you become a "god" is that doctrine, which is an official doctrine of both the Catholic and all of the Protestant churches that I know. They just substitute the word "angel" or "arch angel" for the word "god".

As usual you anti types do not know Mormon Doctrine and you don't know your own.

True religion is hard to prove.
Ron writes:
"Christianity - The True Religion
A religion formalizes the teachings, doctrines, and beliefs about God. Christ taught how to live and how to achieve salvation and the reward of heaven. It is not necessary to be a formal member of a religion in order to be saved as a Christian. By following the teachings of Jesus Christ and doing his will you will be saved. Knowlege of the true God: Jesus Christ, is a gift from God himself. Read the New Testament, meditate on it, and listen to your conscience in quiet contemplation, and you will know the true God. "


What religion does not say the same thing, but place in their scriptures instead of the NT?

Good speach
It is filled with truth for those who believe in liberty. More government=less liberty, so I can't overlook his liberal past.

Will says:
"I think saying "I believe that Jesus Christ is my Lord & Savior" should be a private thing. You know how some people say that if you're gay, it's ok, but you should keep it to yourself? Don't ask, don't tell? Why isn't this policy adopted for religion?"

No Christian could say such folly. Ever heard of the great commision? Christians should be embarrased by their faith? Why shouldn't secular humanist such as yourself? Or is ours only doomed to the closet? Liberty for me but not for thee!

Me and my mormon self
I am am active Mormon.

The speech was interesting, but for me, left a lot to be desired. Regardless of the speech, I can not vote for my fellow brother.

Anyone who has stated that he wants to "double Guantanamo" has forgotten the history of the church, forgotten how the Book of Mormon teaches us to treat our enemy prisoners with respect and dignity.



lonestarblues
You say you don't like "big government conservatives" like there is a viable alternative. Both Dems & republicans are inherently big government now. They just approach it from different ends. Wanting to "re-make" the middle east over into democracies, or a democratic image, or countries conducive to democracy, has turned out to be a very, very big government proposition. GW Bush's alarming & ever-growing deficit (continual flow of Iraq-Afghanistan-generic "war on terror" spending)is the invisible elephant in the middle of the room that TH rarely brings up.

I am not necessarily a Ron Paul guy, but Ron Paul is the sole "small government conservative" on the playing field.

Still a no vote for me.
I thought his speech was inspirational. Mitt was very eloquent and passionate, and he said things that all Christians can agree on. Good for him.

I still won't vote for him.

No more RINOS.

Way to Go, Mitt!
I LOVED this speech. It surpassed my expectations. I found myself teary-eyed a couple times and at the end I wanted to stand up and shout "Bravo!"

See ya in the White House, Mitt.

Great job
I heard it and was moved. It was inspiring.

He clearly has the chops to beat Hellary in a debate, and he doesn't have the baggage of three wives and so forth.

It amazes me that we have so many Savoranolas in the conservative movement. Get out the hot irons and make us confess before they burn us at the stake. It is idiotic for the so-called Christians to try to drive mormons (or agnostics or atheists ) out of the right side of politics. Mormons are pretty conservative. Do you really want to get rid of them? What's next, driving out the conservative Catholics?

The pharasees testing who is christian and who is not are disgusting. Jesus Himself wouldn't pass their tests, and they'd crucify him again if he came back now. If I weren't so fond of Hayek, I'd leave myself.

Terrific Speech
I have been somewhat troubled as I read some of the narrowminded responses to Governor Romney's speech. Particularly disturbing was Jim equating Mormonisn to radical Islam.

I believe he has been dogged by the accusation of being "not Christian" that he had to give such a speech and by expecting him to explain the detailed doctrine of Mormon's view of Christ would have been just the opposite of what his speech was trying to do. The Constitution was written, in part, to avoid such things. Huckabee himself insinuated that Mormons weren't Christian, which was disappointing.

Although I may not agree with exactly the views of the governor's religion, I have been to Salt Lake City and I submit that there is a distinct feeling of Christianity and American conservatism as I toured that wonderful city.

I will be voting for Mitt. His view of conservative values are most closely aligned with my own views. I haven't seen anyone better come along since Reagan.

Why? Religious Triumphalism
Christian Manfred writes: "Embarrassed! This is one of the very few times I feel embarrassed to be an American. We should all be ashamed of ourselves today. Why should ANYONE have to explain/apologize for their faith or lack thereof?"

Because we are America, a bastion of Christian fundamentalism and triumphalism.

Meet your neighbors. The fact is that among a large number of them orthodox versions of the Christ Myth about Jesus predominate.

Republicans should pray that Hillary gets the Democratic nod and someone other than Romney, however qualified he might be, gets the Republican. (Christian Republicans would would enable Hillary's win over Romney?)

Not if you live a hundred years will you ever outgrow your embarrassment. Unless, of course, Israel and the USA get nuked, Jesus predictably doesn't come back, and Christianity begins its massive disappointment and re-orientation. Which in any case is no guarantee that you won't still feel the embarrassment.

Where's the red meat?
I was waiting for Mitt to say what was on everybody's mind.... "As a good Mormon, I believe when you die you have the potential to become your own god." .... "As a good Mormon, I believe when you die you have the potential to rule your own planet."

I wanted a little more of the nuts & bolts of mormonism. He, after all, SAID he firmly believes what his religion teaches. Mormonism is a compendium of strange beliefs & I am curious how intelligent people get sucked in. (Just like christianity I suppose: indoctrinate, brainwash the children....I see the same things going on with those polygamous Utah cults).

I think saying "I believe that Jesus Christ is my Lord & Savior" should be a private thing. You know how some people say that if you're gay, it's ok, but you should keep it to yourself? Don't ask, don't tell? Why isn't this policy adopted for religion?

Ron
The churches in Europe are state ran. That's why they are empty.

"He equated all religions as equal. "
Under the United States Constitution they are. Everyone can worship as they choose, they are free to do so.

I know you think that Christianity is the true religion, but not all Christians agree on what Christ's doctrine is or what is necessary. Christianity is divided and you are one of several hundred thousand people claiming true Christianity. You have no monopoly on Christ and not all Christians believe in your version of Chritianity.

One more time
Journal of Discourse is not Official Mormon Doctrine. Brigham Young said a lot of things, so did other recent and early church leaders. Their personal opinions are not binding on the Church.

Pat Robertson has said a lot of things. That does not make every word he ever said binding on the Baptists.

Anti Mormons need to grow up and stop cherry picking out of context every word that has been spoken by a Mormon leader and claiming or presenting it as Church Doctrine. Why don't you go try defending every thing that has been said by a Protestant Minister for the last 150 years.

Most of you are simply mislead by the anti Mormon literature, which for the most part is false and deliberately deceptive, as to what Mormons actually officially believe.

Stop quoting JD as the Doctrine of the Mormons. It is not. Neither are books written by General Authorities. Read the author page. It will say that it is personal opinion and the author is solely responsible.


Great Speech
Great Speech, 'whoever' wrote it and beautiful delivery. It made me proud to be an American.

would I vote for Mitt? No, I prefer Conservatives.

I wish...
I wish that I been able to watch the speech. Unfortunately I didn't bring my TV with me to Iraq so I had to settle for the still very moving version that is displayed here.

True?

Ron writes:

"This is an anti-Christian doctrine because there can be only one true religion, and Christians believe that theirs is that one true religion."


It is amazing on how many one true religions there are.

How do YOU know which is the true one?

Fred
I hope Ron Paul would go to war with a country
that started bombing our ships even if he pledged
2 years earlier he wouldn't.

Unrestricted submarine warfare is not brainwashing.

Nor were the attacks on 9/11 that led to the war
in Afghanistan. The War in Iraq that's another
story.

Great Job
This was a tremendous speech. If you can't acknowledge that then you just aren't being honest.

It's also sad every time I read comments in stories about Mitt. I realize as a nation we really haven't come very far at all. To see the hatred spewed by certain Evangelicals is disappointing.

The irony is this. Mitt Romney (and the Mormon faith) walk side by side with Evangelicals on social issues. Yet, out of spite and religious biggotry, Evangelicals would rather vote for Huckabee (who can't win) or vote for Rudy (who doesn't represent your views). Then, for the next 4 or 8 years we will hear about how upset Evangelicals are that there isn't a social conservative in the White House.

That speech was so slick it was . . .
downright Clintonian!

Good speech
but will he believe it in 3 months?

Or will he have switched his position by then?

uisignorant
"I guess he will not get the athiest vote... "

As a conservative, in the vien of Mises, Hayek, Friedman, he will not get my vote because he is another big government con, iow, a liberal. As an atheist, it neither picks my pocket nor breaks my bones what his personal beliefs are, and I admire him for speaking out about about his beliefs and the same religious tolerence John Locke, Roger Williams, and the Founders followed.

Brigham Young...
" 'The adversary,' said Brigham Young, 'presents his principle and arguments in the most approved style, and in the most winning tone, attended with the most graceful attitudes; and he is very careful to ingratiate himself into the favor of the powerful and influential of mankind, uniting himself with popular parties, floating into offices of trust and emolument by pandering to popular feeling, though it should seriously wrong and oppress the innocent.' Such characters put on the manners of an angel, appearing as nigh like angels of light as they possibly can, to deceive the innocent and the unwary. The good which they do, they do to bring to pass an evil purpose upon the good and honest followers of Jesus Christ."

"When the spirit of persecution, the spirit of hatred of wrath, and malice ceases in the world against this people, it will be the time that this people have apostatized and joined hands with the wicked, and never until then; which I pray may never come." (Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 4:326.)

screw politics
Joseph F. Smith: “The followers of Jesus were his chosen people, and because they were chosen by him, the world hated them…Contempt is the heritage of a chosen people. Ought we therefore to court the contempt of the world? By no means. On the other hand, we should not be discouraged because it comes to us unsought. Some of our friends—mostly in the Church, some few out of it—would lift us out of the contempt of the world, and keep us out of it, if we would simply be governed by their counsels. The truth is, we are not strangers to hatred; and the contempt of the world has been our lot so much that we have no reason to be discouraged when it comes, even in violent forms. The danger lies not so much in our own peculiarity as in the disposition of many of our people to court popularity at all costs, as if it were something devoutly to be wished for.” (Gospel Doctrine: Selections from the Sermons and Writings of Joseph F. Smith, compiled by John A. Widtsoe [Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1939], 340.)

George A. Smith said: "Whenever the newspapers have said this or that good
thing about the Mormons, I have said, Whats up? Are we getting wicked, so
that the world loves us?"

B. Y. said "We don't want popularity. Popularity would send us to hell."

Lord Mitt
I think flip flopping Mitt makes for a much better megalomaniacal church leader then a presidential canidate.

hypocrite impostor fake salesman
Brigham Young said: "Satan is a great orator"

how true

now this politican is seeking to reinvent himself at the 11th hour - when his record reeks of cultural marxism for decades of doing anything to climb the ladder to the white house

anyone who trusts this politician deserves the neo-con havoc he will certainly wreek

he's not a barry goldwater/Reagan conservative - he's more a Bush Jnr Neo-Con - even worse, supports Hillary like health care (marrxist), gay agenda nonsense, ETC

politicians!

vote for Ron Paul - he's a true statesman - he doesn't need to give a flowery speech; his actions are loud and clear and consistent

Media-driven
Great speech by Romney. But as others have noted, it is media-driven -- you know, the media who have fits of apoplexy whenever religion touches upon one of the non-elites (nonliberal). No scandal in Romney's background? Don't worry, the MSM will make Mormon a hissing and a byword. The MSM, sycophants that they are, are trying to torpedo a perceived threat to Hillary.

Free Ramos and Compean
Global warming is sphere nonsense

In agreement with Jim, and
when I hear a President refer to "God", I need to know that they mean the God of the Bible, not a guy who worked his way up to godhood.

Mormon Haters
Get over yourself,if you can. The FACT is, we are Christian. You don't have a monopoly on Christ. You are not Christ that you can define who follows Him. You call yourself a Christian, that's fine with me, eventhough I believe your version is not true in all points, yet Christ set the example about how to deal with these differences.


ST MARK
CHAPTER 9

38 ¶ And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us.
39 But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me.
40 For he that is not against us is on our part.
41 For whosoever shall give you a cup of water to drink in my name, because ye belong to Christ, verily I say unto you, he shall not lose his reward.

King Lib,
Mormons have missionaries in every city of any size in the US and in a lot of very small towns also. They are willing to travel. It isn't really difficult to find someone to explain what Mormons believe.

If Mitt were to have addressed doctrinal issues, 1) It would have been a very bad venue,
2) It would have taken more than 30 minutes, so would have gotten no coverage for the masses,
3) It would have been contentious, because if you've ever been on the receiving end of those discussions, they aren't friendly - at least on the evangelical part,
4) It would have played into the fear that Mitt would use the presidency to try to convert everyone to the LDS Church. That would have defeated the whole purpose of the speech.

Anyways, LDS people tell protestants - oops, evangelicals what we believe and evangelicals tell us we're wrong about what we believe and we really believe something else, but are too stupid and unschooled to know it, so I don't see why they'd suddenly believe Mitt.

Rhetorical question - If someone says I believe something I don't know I believe, do I really believe it?

It was a great speech.

SC poll
The latest SC Ras poll has Huck at 25, Romney and Fred at 18 and Rudy at 12.

As I pointed out in other posts this speech is Romney's very adroit move to grab the middle. Rudy is collapsing especially in the South. Fred will start to collapse if he does not do much better in IA and the South. Romney is starting to pick up moderate voters in the South. Romney becomes the alternative to Huck in the South with Fred left with the votes that Romney can not get.

The Huck boom will continue for a while but his negatives will start to hit him pretty soon. This is setting up a Romney Huck Rudy race with Romney with the middle of the party taking votes from both Huck and Rudy.




Gov. Romney's Speech
I would like to address a few of the comments contained in Gov. Romney's speech. First, he stated that "a person should not be elected because of his faith nor should he be rejected because of his faith." I disagree. Taking Gov. Romney's argument to its conclusion, the American electorate would be "intolerant" if it rejected a candidate that embraced radical Islamic beliefs. I certainly believe that as a voter I can disqualify a candidate based on the tenets of his faith. Second, Gov. Romney stated that "I believe in my Mormon faith and I endeavor to live by it." That's all well and fine, but then it is perfectly acceptable (and not intolerant) if voters examine Gov. Romney's defining faith and raise legitimate questions and concerns about the theology that makes up the Mormon religion. Finally, Gov. Romney stated that "Religious tolerance would be a shallow principle indeed if it were reserved only for faiths with which we agree." I agree that Gov. Romney has the right to worship in any manner he personally chooses, but I vehemently disagree with his implication that anyone who investigates and questions the tenets of his church's beliefs and rejects him as a candidate for President based on those religious beliefs is intolerant. If Gov. Romney's Mormon beliefs shape the person he is and the type of President he would be, then I have every right to examine those beliefs. If I reject his candidacy because of his Mormon beliefs, that does not make me religiously intolerant. I want a President that has deeply held religious values. Values that will shape his decision making process. Because I want, and demand this in a President, I will examine the theology that constitutes the foundation of that candidates' faith. If I find that theology lacking, I am not a religious bigot if I reject that candidate. Gov. Romney, as a presidential candidate, you are subject to this kind of scrutiny.

Hypocrisy - pretence, impostor, fake
as Brigham Young said "satan is a great orator"

speeches, debates - all crap on the eardrums

what matters is behaviour - actions speak louder than words; sounding brass and tinkling cymbals; be not deceived

real leaders like Moses, Enoch etc have speech impediments but integrity in their actions

Various disastrous presidents gave great speeches - Woodrow Wilson, FDR, George Bush Jnr (imposter fake conservative) - great speeches and then had typical UNconstitutional band of socialist robber presidencies

Mitt needs a lesson in history - teh US had no need in 'saving' Europe from the fascism which Wall Street banks funded and helped to rise up. the US could have stayed out of WWi and WWii.

Woodrow Wilson was elected again on the promise to keep the US out of WWI and then immediately set about doing everything in his power (controlling editors ect) to brainwash and cajole the US public into joining the WWI

real leaders like Moses may even have speech impedimetns but their actions have integrity - are principles based

Ron Paul is consistent, constitutional and clear in his actions - we don't need a flowery speech because we know what he stands for

but because the lobbyists and special intersts can't buy Ron Paul, he won't get the prominence and money that the puppets and salesman like Mitt will get...

what a sick and twisted system that people can reinvent themselves at the 11th hour to win votes when real statesman like Ron Paul are rejected by the elite...so goes the Roman empire....

anyone who trusts this politician is a fool and deserves teh govt they get

A Liberal in Conservative Clothing
I agree with Talent Scout's post.

How could people be so deceived by Romney? We should always take what a politician says with a grain of salt and look at his ACTIONS. Romney is a liberal.

Why are we giving Romney air-time to talk about "Faith in America"? Why won't he share specifics about his Mormon faith? It is because he knows if Americans heard more, they would realize that it is nothing like Christianity.

A President's faith does matter because it speaks volumes about who they are, what principles guide them, and their view of the world.

Wow
Just look at all the posts who swallow words and will not look at his deeds.

You are the reason America is on the course to completely lose our individual freedoms to every element and decision in life.
This man is a Big Government Liberal running as a Conservative.

How has Americans forgotten the age old truism.
Actions speak louder than words.
he IS A LIBERAL

A Very Slick Politician
Mitt Romney showed me only two things today:

1) He cannot be trusted- He is a slicker politician than Bill Clinton. Every word he said was carefully measured to appeal to voters. The man has changed his "opinion" so many times how can you know when he is telling the truth.

2) He is panicking because Governor Huckabee is winning in Iowa and Mitt has dropped severely in the polls. He has run such a mean-spirited campaign, constantly attacking his opponents in his desperate attempt for power.


Definitive Speech
Perhaps the best speech on religion and government that I have ever heard.

mjashley
"I would have had some respect for Romney if he had talked about specifically what he as a Mormon does believe "

That is laughable, you called him an evil liar in your first comment.

throwing out a question
I can't help but think that we are letting the media determine the issues that are or are not important to this election. If not for the media attention on his religous affiliation, Mr. Romney would not have been placed in the position to feel the need to give this speech in the first place. The real question here is, has Mitt Romney ever in his past political career made a decision or pushed an issue that demonstrated that he did NOT have an understanding of the words "separation of church and state". If that were truly the case, I would find that information to be valuable. I haven't heard of any, and that makes this a non-issue, one only designed to polarize people.

Nice speech
Just too bad he is a liberal running as a Republican.
He finally shows some guts and addresses this issue, and it all sounds good enough for the ones who believe his slick speech writer, but the bottom line is he won an election in the most liberal Stat of them all.

That alone defines the man as one more slick politician like GW Bush, Billy bob Klinton and the sort of man who is groomed for public ear tickling.
Saying one thing and doing another behind closed doors.

This man took the Marxist plan to passing into Law the dreams of the socialist utopia of the State running every aspect to our lives with his "health care" extortion dressed up as good for the collective.

I do not need this man or any of the rest of these politicians to take care of me and if he really had Faith in America, he would recognize that he has no right to decide a damn thing for me or any other American with his collective Marxism.

The State running the health care of all began in the USSR, then to Europe and now here.
Romney is no leader, he is a follower of Karl Marx.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18076906/

Embracing 'Hillarycare' doesn't play well on the right






updated 12:20 p.m. MT, Thurs., April. 12, 2007
BOSTON - Mitt Romney, who a year ago was heralding Massachusetts' health insurance law, sometimes fails to mention the far-reaching program when addressing conservative audiences today.

This is not close to America, it is close to Lenin.
Hunter/Tancredo and/or Paul
The only American Leaders.


Good speech but no change
An excellent speech by Gov. Romney today. While it does not sway my inclination to vote for Gov. Huckabee, my decision was never predicated on Romney's religious beliefs but on the constancy of one's convictions and the ability to articulate those values. On both counts, Mike Huckabee is the better candidate in my view.

More at rightsmart.blogspot.com

Wow!
Mitt will be a great president!

Romney ...Hits it hard...
It is high ...It is long...At the walllll...see ya! Home run Romney!

The truth is not petty
Romney did campaign at a gay pride parade- the flyer he sent around is all over Youtube and other media outlets. He said he would fight harder for gay rights than Ted Kennedy- you have to work very hard to be left of Ted Kennedy.

I would have had some respect for Romney if he had talked about specifically what he as a Mormon does believe and why he embraces this faith. We should be privy to what someone believes because this does shape how they will govern.

Actually, Mitt himself wrote that speech
Of course he had input from others, but HE wrote it. This should surprise no one. Mitt Romney has always been a fantastic public speaker.

He isn't great in debates because he doesn't think in terms of 30 second sound-bites, jokes and Huck-like zingers that dodge the question.

Didn't hear the speech in its entirity

Didn't have to.

I like Mitt already.

The bar was pretty high...
I expected a truly magnificent speech...and my expectations were surpassed.

I was so moved by his words (especially at the end) that had I been there in person I would have been on my feet in full applause and with tears of patriotism in my eyes.

This is by far the most presidential we have seen any candidate (from either side) in this race.

WELL DONE MITT!!!!! WELL DONE!!!!!!

He finally did it... so move on!!!
Now that Mitt Romney has offered his JFK speech that everyone has been clammering for so let's move on and get back to the business of electing our next president.

He did a great job repeating exactly what he has said from the beginning, that he is a man of faith and it has helped him become a better father, husband, and American. If given the chance, he hopes to continue to serve his fellow Americans as our next president. Can't ask for more.

For those wondering, Romney said last night that he did write his own speech last Thursday and has been polishing it up. For those who still feel left out of the loop on what a memeber of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints does or believes then go to http://www.mormon.org.

Wow, he did it
I know Mitt is 'wiki smat' (a little Boston lingo for ya) but with all of the talk, I was a bit nervous about it. I'm sure it will get picked apart, later - but what a speech. Nice job Mitt

mjashley- your criticisms are over the
top.

My sense was that he wanted to present the areas we have in common. If he were applying for the job of Pastor at my Evangelical church, I would hold him to a higher and more detailed standard.

The office of President is not a religious office.

I have confidence with Romney that he will not be hostile to religious expressions in the public square, like Jimmuh Carter who claims to be a "Born Again" Christian, or Teddy (*urp*) Kennedy, who claims to be a Catholic.

Does the man share my values? My love for country? My passion for law and order?

These are more important for the office of President than the building he sits in on Sunday mornings.

mjashley....mjashley..
mjashley

What cult do you belong to?

Yeah he served his mission in France, his draft number was very high, it NEVER got called. What is your point?

He did not say he supported abortion, he said he supported the law of the land.

I have never heard anyone say he was campaigning at a gay pride parade either. Nor can I recall him saying they deserve "Special" treatment.

You just go ahead and be the bigot and hater.

I have known the Romney family for 25 years, they are wonderful.

mjashley
I don't care for your petty nonsense.

Hard to admit
I don't like to join the chorus but:

I will be voting for Mitt's speech writer in November!

Oh, wait, no, Mitt is the one running, not his ghostwriter. Well, Mitt doesn't actually stand for much that I believe, or has gone back and forth on his beliefs often enough that I don't trust this commitment. And even if he had written this speech himself, being able to make a nice speech isn't anywhere near as important as having beliefs which I support.

So guess I am back to undecided.

Sorry, guess I am not joining in the chorus after all.

Don't Be Deceived By Romney's Lies
Mitt Romney's Mormonism aside for a minute, I could never vote for someone as deceitful as him. He only says what he needs to say to get elected, period. When he was running in Massachusetts against Ted Kennedy he said he wasn't a Reagan/Bush Republican; he said he was pro-choice; he said he was pro-gay rights and campaigned at a gay pride parade saying that they deserved special rights.

Now he wants to win the Republican nomination and all of his convictions have changed?

Mitt looks good and sounds good, but don't be deceived. Remember when evil wants to fool us it doesn't send someone who looks evil it sends someone who is charismatic, convincing. The evil one twists the truth just enough so it looks nice but something in our spirit knows it's not right.

No matter how they try to disguise it, Mormonism is a cult- they believe they can become gods on earth. How can he say his Mormon faith won't impact his potential presidency? His presidency will legitimize a cult and empower their missionaries. By the way, Romney wasn't available to serve in Vietnam because he was serving as a Mormon Missionary in France.


Embarrassed!
This is one of the very few times I feel embarrassed to be an American. We should all be ashamed of ourselves today.

Why should ANYONE have to explain/apologize for their faith or lack thereof?

Tell 'em to go to Hell, Mitt!

Historic
That was truly a historic speech. I don't believe I have heard a speech of that nature since Ronald Reagan. Mitt Romney stands as a pillar to the rest of the world.

I WILL VOTE FOR MITT COME JANUARY!!!!

A person should not be elected ...
A person should not be elected because of his faith nor should he be rejected because of his faith.

Another good sound byte. Probably the most appropriate given the current climate.

Americans were unable to accommodate ...
Americans were unable to accommodate their commitment to their own faith with an appreciation for the convictions of others to different faiths. In this, they were very much like those of the European nations they had left.

Good quote. I wonder how many will be rankled by that statement.

I enjoyed it very much
Romney did very well and showed that he understands the religious reality in America much better than Huckabee, who is blatantly running as the not-Mormon candidate.

Good for Governor Romney. This was a very good speech, given with his heart, that one would be hard pressed to find fault with.

Great Speech
This was truly a great speech.

Romney stepped on his applause lines a few times. That means he got applause at points that he did not anticipate.

This speech was not about religion. It was about putting Romney in a position where voters could ask themselves, can I picture Romney as President.

It is pretty easy to make that comparison standing next to President Bush. It was like passing the baton from one couple to the next and one family to the next.

I will go into the strategy parts later. Visually and verbally this was a great speech.

Cheers




Look who is not voting Mitt..
I guess he will not get the athiest vote...
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