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Friday, November 16, 2007
Mike Gallagher :: Townhall.com Columnist
Border Insanity
by Mike Gallagher
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Will the Dems' health care Christmas Present to America be an improvement or detriment to our health care system?


At long last, I have discovered the secret to the insanity of the illegal alien debate in America.

Finally, I have stumbled upon the ultimate truth. Because over and over again, we see people and events converge in a way that doesn’t make any sense whatsoever when it comes to those who continually defend the people who sneak across the border and take our jobs and social services.

It’s downright crazy to hear our president pine for “a path to citizenship.” It’s completely nutso to witness thousands take to the streets while waving Mexican flags and demanding “rights” for those who have gained illegal entry. It’s off-the-charts goofy to observe a governor expect to get support for granting drivers licenses to illegals. It’s wacky to watch state legislatures give illegal immigrants in-state tuition benefits.

In other words, everyone seems to have gone mad.

And I think I finally figured out what’s going on.

The pro-illegal alien crowd has entered into some sort of contest. It’s become sport for them to see just how far the crazies can go in crossing the line of common sense, logic, and decency over this important issue.

Nothing demonstrates this more clearly than this week’s insanity, a group of Jewish activists who have decided to form a coalition with Hispanic pro-illegal activists because, according to them, Hispanics are receiving “the same sort of hate” that Jews have received over the years.

I’m not even going to mention the name of the Jewish group. I’m too embarrassed for them.

I’m not Jewish. But I certainly recognize the years and years of persecution that Jews have experienced. I shudder to think of man’s inhumanity to man during WWII and the concentration camps. And very few things in life should be as sacred and reverential as always remembering what the Jewish people have gone through all over the world.

To somehow equate the history of Jewish oppression to the anger that most Americans feel over illegal aliens has got to be one of the vilest examples of manipulation we have ever seen.

No decent person exhibits any “hatred” towards Hispanic illegals. We resent the act itself, not the individual. We are frustrated at our country’s inability to deal with this issue in a constructive, effective way. And yes, we hold great contempt for those who flaunt our laws and thumb their noses at every American citizen.

But it is beyond a wild stretch to make the case that what Hispanic illegal aliens experience in 2007 America is equivalent to the agonies and horrors that Jews have experienced in years past.

It is downright silly.

So there is no other way to say it, these folks must be on some wild quest to top one another with outrageous, ridiculous scenarios and lies and efforts to defend the indefensible.

Shame on them.

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About The Author

Mike Gallagher is a nationally syndicated radio host, Fox News Channel contributor and guest host and author of Surrounded by Idiots: Fighting Liberal Lunacy in America.

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the straw man deportation dilemma
The Attrition Solution

We COULD READILY make most ILLEGALS leave via attritive repatriation PROVIDED THAT our pols are made to realize that > 70% of Americans CLEARLY want them to leave and get in line properly:

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/imm igration_bill_failure
_proves_rasmussen_s_first_law_of_politics

The key to this is CLEARLY demonstrating to ILLEGALS that we intend to enforce EXISTING laws--> no licenses, no jobs, no welfare, no social services, no college tuition, no pass go UNLESS you can prove that you have a LEGAL right to be visiting. We also need to crack down on expired visas, which account for an estimated 20% of ILLEGALS.

Then border crashers and visa violators would then inexorably return at THEIR expense-- the VERY same way they got here. BUT miscreant pols must first be made to reverse the message they are sending which has been aiding and abetting the ILLEGAL invasion. The power and $ are on the other side with the cheap labor lobby and limited interest groups.

Presidente Jorge Bush, Sanctuary City Regularization Rudy, and other RINOS wink at them after they pretend to favor enforcement. If we let the left and RINOS make voters of the 20 million uneducated, culturally disparate ILLEGALS, it is OVER for America-- we will ineluctably rapidly and permanently morph into a third world entitlement state. It is a PRIVILEGE to be able to emigrate to America, NOT A RIGHT.

Deport
Sam:

Care to explain how you are going to deport a US citizen, one of which was a war hero?

And for those that like to use the T-word--look at the Constitution and see how it defines the term.


Immigration
Sunflower:

What does legal immigration have to do with the borders and ports since legal immigrants arrive with a visa and usually arrive via an airplane.

Also, since a majority of immigrants are the spouse or child or parent or sibling of a US citizen, do you want to tell that citizen he can't bring that family member to the US--tell a family they can't adopt from China or can't bring in their wife from say Mexico? How about those who come here due to their special skills--would you deny another Einstein? Do you know how idiotic a zero immigration policy would be?

For a hint, just look at where Japan is heading.


Akagi
monticup:

No, but at times people have called me Akagai--but that is because they can't spell--not my fault they can't spell my name.

Always have been Akagi.


some examples of ...
Some examples of rightist:

The neocons, and the mainstream "half-wit" wing of the Libertarians, including the Reason Magazine & Cato Institute types. (note, Ron Paul is not a member of the "half-wit" faction of Libertarians).

Examples of leftist:

ACLU, La Raza type groups, Fundamentalist Religious Left, PFAW, etc.

Robert


You are absolutely right, Presedente Jorge Boosh turned to the right after 9/11.


He abandoned any remaining fragments of conservatism in his political philosophy, and turned into a devout adherent to the politics of the right.


Note my point: "Conservative" and "right wing" are not synonyms, they are antonyms.


The same applies with regard to "liberal" and "leftist".

They are not different degrees of intensity on the political spectrum, they are absolute opposites.


Conservatives and liberals are both populist in orientation and believers in civil liberties the Constitution, and their nation. They hold slight differences on issues regarding the level of taxation and government-funded benefits, for those slight differences they are incorrectly portrayed as being on opposite ends of the political spectrum.


Leftists and rightists, on the other hand, believe in world government, a globalist-feudalist-socialist Police State. They hold slight differences in that one wants to call this monstrosity a "government" while the other wants to call it a "corporation".

Are we racists? answer honestly and see.
If, we had 12 - 20 million soviets come into this country over the course of the last 30 years or so, would your attitude toward illegal immigration change? Remember to answer honestly.

labor supply

Those promoting the notion that our economy needs more immigrants will be laughingstocks once we are in the depression within 2-3 years that we have set ourselves up for by accepting the notion that a nation can borrow and shop itself into prosperity indefinitely.

(while the purveyors of economic nonsense will be laughingstocks, the economic disaster they will have created will not be the least bit funny)


The notion that a 21st century economy needs a flood of illiterate unskilled workers reaches an even higher level of absurdity.


Stop The Madness
I think ALL immigration needs to stop until our leaders fix this correctly and get those borders and ports secured. This is complete madness.

If you have not registered as an Independent, I urge you to do so. I am sick of government as usual -- I want them to start listening to "We The People".

ILLEGALS: The Stealth Voting Agenda
Make no mistake about it-- for the left, scamnesty is all about the future votes and institutionalizing big entitlement government. Hispanics were only 6% of the actual vote in 2006, but they are the main element (80%) of ILLEGALS, notwithstanding visa violators from Arabia, the Orient, etc.

Furthermore, citizenship is not even always required to vote (state legislatures decide who can vote), but drivers' licenses and other steps toward scamnesty are all intended to get ILLEGALS voting so they will vote like their friends do--
for a leftist big government welfare state. It is stunning that the RINOS do not see this... the fact that well-established, successful Hispanic Americans sometimes vote conservatively is IRRELEVANT; it is simplistic (and really racist) to assume that ALL Hispanics vote in lock step-- half of LEGAL Hispanic-Americans voted for tough new sanctions in 2006 to squelch ILLEGALS in
Arizona.

Join the grassroots mainstream fight to save YOUR country! Here is how you can EASILY contact YOUR Senators and Representatives at their official contact sites. Heck, bark at all of 'em! They LOVE hearing from you, and their people DO track the nature of the feedback! Bookmark it and call/e-mail them often:

http://www.congressmerge.com/onlinedb/index.htm

Or you can send the great topic specific e-mails as prepared by the top anti-ILLEGAL group and stay informed right here:

http://www.numbersusa.com/index
http://www.numbersusa.com/actionbuffet

America would be a TERRIBLE thing to lose-- join the righteous fight to save YOUR country! This is a critical time to become involved! YOU can make a difference!

HUNTER FOR AMERICA



We the People of the United States of America have the right to have our borders and our laws respected and enforced.
If we wish to keep our representative Republic, and our rule of law, we must elect a President who WILL secure the borders and enforce the laws. The actions of the next President will determine the fate of this great nation. If citizenship becomes meaningless, this will no longer be the United States of America.

The primary responsibility of the U.S. government is to protect the territorial integrity and people of this country. They have completely abdicated this responsibility. Both parties have been complicit in this. We are being told it is not possible to control our borders, enforce our laws, and thereby control our destiny as a nation. Hogwash. We are being sold out by corporations intent on importing workers for jobs that can't be exported with the taxpayers paying the true costs, financial and human. If we act like sheep and don't stop the inundation across our borders, we will lose our country without a bleat.

http://www.gohunter08.com

LOL, Lodestar
Getting ever-closer to my "personal best".

Trust me, I'm on the money.


wow, Brian
re:
"As of now, the personas you present are Robert, Rocky Jones, Len, Jen, Sophia, Devout Agnostic, jetpilot, Treasonous Republican, Traitorous Republicans, and TCA. I’ll update this list as required."

To use a term a pilot might know from meteorology, I knew that there was a lot of anomalous propagation here from the TH changeling gadfly Roberto, but it really does explain a lot if the twerp is the same twitt using all of those nom de plumes! He must have NO LIFE to spend so much time at this warped game. Sort of reminds one of the profile of a serial killer! Web site crashers must be similarly unhinged. Spooky really. Almost makes you feel sorry for the lost and the dammed... even a genuine lib tries occasionally to make a real point, however wayward and vacuous.

gadfly: One who acts as a provocative stimulus;
a persistently annoying person

changeling: (in folklore) an ugly, stupid, or
strange child left by fairies or
TROLLS in place of a pretty,
charming child.

Refer to my 4:39PM post
to see what I mean.

Getting there.....

A new record may be set tonight....


Immigration is the new AA???
Immigration is the new affirmative action

Will this split the Dems?

Politico-Immigration is becoming for the 2008 election what affirmative action/racial preferences was 15 years ago — the kind of emotional wedge issue that offers Republicans a way to split rank-and-file Democrats from their leaders.

In the late 1980s and early 1990s, the battle over programs aimed at helping minorities was a major factor in many political campaigns. The election results often appeared to contradict what seemed to be the public’s opinion on the issue.

Looking back, much of the confusion stemmed from the wording of many poll questions on the subject. They tended to show strong support for “affirmative action,” which was how the programs were described by supporters and, often, the media.

READ MORE

http://controlcongress.com/uncategorized/immigration-is-new -affirmative-action





Careful, guys......
I'm going for a "personal best", and getting close.......


Lou Dobbs "Contemplating” President bid
He would get my vote!

We noted the speculation earlier this week and now John Fund reports that friends of CNN anchor Lou Dobbs “say he is seriously contemplating” a presidential bid, “although it’s still unlikely.”

“They spin a scenario under which the acerbic commentator would parachute into the race if Michael Bloomberg, the New York billionaire and favorite of East Coast elites, enters the field as an independent. With Hillary Clinton continuing to score badly in polls in the categories of honesty and integrity, and with the public’s many doubts about Rudy Giuliani and other GOP contenders, Mr. Bloomberg may well see an opportunity to roil the political waters by entering the race late. If so, Mr. Dobbs then sees a niche for a ‘fourth-party’ candidate who could paint the three other contenders as completely out of touch.”

“His playbook would be similar to that of Ross Perot in 1992, who didn’t enter the presidential race until the major parties began holding their primaries but quickly shot up to 25% in many polls.”

READ MORE

http://controlcongress.com/uncategorized/lou-dobbs-seriousl y-contemplating-presidential-bid




re: the plague of ILLEGALS
On ILLEGALS, I am actually now truly encouraged... about a year ago, the MSM covered the street protests of what they called then "the undocumented workers"... they said that such displays should prompt the govt. to treat them more "fairly" and put them on a path to citizenship. Prospects seemed bleak to stop "C.I.R." (Scamnesty).

Then like an epiphany a vocal minority representing a huge silent majority (> 70% of America) went into action and derailed Big Scamnesty, the Dream Act (which the left had considered any easy ploy), and the Agriculture subterfuge that Feinstein had planned to run up the flag pole. Now, even New Yorkers, dominated by the liberal Big Apple, nonetheless pummeled Spitzer's Shell Game license scheme intended to assist voter fraud for the left.

Suddenly most are now again referring to the border crashers and visa violators correctly as ILLEGALS. There is more open reporting about the myriad social pathologies concomitant with ILLEGALS. The National Federation of Independent Business (NFIB), representing more than 600,000 small businesses, and the 752,000-member International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers have just endorsed Heath Shuler's SAVE Act mandatory verification for hiring. The remote elites (Bill Bennett, George Will, e.g.) are starting to get it-- Middle America is pixxed!. They cannot fool all of the people all of the time, and Presidente Jorge no longer fools ANYONE on his scamnesty agenda. Things are looking better. ;>)

why is promoting illegals sensible.
the govt which is always collecting statistics on everything that occurs with our citizenry seem unable to grasp the huge number of illegals who are here, exactly who amongst them is a criminal and who is merely trying to find a job. The total of illegals helpinmg themselvers to our social services and the related costs also seems to be beyond the govt attention.It has been reported that bubba allowed illegals to receive chemo therapy starting in 1998 and they are totally overwhelming that service. Citizens who pay into a system are entitled to recieve it's benefits. I fail to understand why we are extending that access to untold numbers of illegals coming here merely to get for free what the rest of us pay for

Illegal Immigration is a CRIME
Under Title 8 Section 1325 of the U.S. Code, "Improper Entry by Alien," any citizen of any country other than the United States who:

Enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers; or

Eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers; or

Attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact;
has committed a federal crime.

Violations are punishable by criminal fines and imprisonment for up to six months. Repeat offenses can bring up to two years in prison.

Additional civil fines may be imposed at the discretion of immigration judges, but civil fines do not negate the criminal sanctions or nature of the offense.


Back to the article
As far as these small band of Jews trying to compare the plight with what the Mexican illegals are going through is absolutely ridiculous and insulting. These are Jews who obviously know nothing about their families when they arrived in this country.

My Jewish family arrived here LEGALLY. They registered at Ellis Island.

Registration changed their last names permenantly because they could not pronounce the ethnic sounding last names.

They had no insurance, no benefits, no freebies, no special interest groups, no lawyers, no marches, no protests, no free babies, no free housing---they had BUBKIS!

All they had was each other, family, they stress education and an excellent work ethic. And they survived and flourished.

To compare the Mexican illegals is insane and for shock value only. If those Jews really understood what their family struggled to obtain in the US LEGALLY without any handouts.

Try having Mexican illegals sign in at the door, have their last name changed, no social programs, no protection, no freebies. Huh, and these illegals think they're getting a rough deal?!

Oh, yeah, I know all the tricks
It IS funny how the convo here immediately dried pretty much up.

The "skunk at the garden party" effect, for sure.


Bryan R
I'm signing off for awhile I have chores to do.

But Sophia is trying to draw you out, just to keep you angry. She is doing the same thing on at least one other thread. She/he ,whoever ,is up to the usual tricks. Making conservatives miserable is what the people exist for.

They make sure we can't bug them on their sites, but they scatter to ours like roaches for the express purpose of trying to cause misery. You know how compassionate and understanding and peaceful they are.Got to spread that love around don't ya' know?

Oh, yeah, Lodestar
There's no question that entire decision was politically motivated. Bush has been terrible on this whole issue. The fact of the matter is that enforcement efforts feel significantly from CLINTON'S levels as President. The rate of illegals entering the country has climbed dramatically over the last 6 years. Estimates are that over half the illegals in the country came in under BUSH'S watch!

Which really resonates when you think of all the clamor to "nominate Rudy or elect Hillary", that hysteria.

In many ways, Bill was a bgetter Prez than Bush, or at least no worse, and Bush is Reagan compared to Giuliani.

Man, we are in deep kimchee.....

speaking of reeking...
The ILLEGAL drug runner whose testimony Johnny Sutton used to convict Campean and Ramos has just been indicted by our govt., and Sutton admits that he lied on the stand against them. Sutton is part of Presidente Jorge's Texas mafia (cohorts) who have been trying to do EVERYTHING to suck up to Mexico. Presidente Jorge had already surreptitiously agreed to send your S.S. $ down to Mexico, and told them in Spanish while visiting early this year that he would work for THEM, Mexican citizens, on C.I.R. up here-- that is nothing short of TREASON, folks!

It is believed by some in Congress that Jorge wanted Campean and Ramos prosecuted to influence the close Mexican election in favor of Vicente Fox's camp, which won by a hair. Meanwhile, 2 American border guards remain in prison on suspicious charges where both have been mistreated by inmates. Congressman Ted Poe of Texas, a long-time respected judge, says that the charges against the 2 border guards were an egregious miscarriage of justice and prosecutorial abuse. Jorge Bush is sliding rapidly toward supplanting LBJ as the Prez who has done the most lasting harm to America in the modern era.

LOL, Nanna
Probably a good plan!

I haven't been over there..... and somehow don't feel inspired to go.

Interesting about Sutton. It seems this raises a very appealable issue, as his being a drug dealer would go directly to his credibility as a witness. As a matter of fact, if he testified he wasn't a dealer, he perjured himself, and his entire testimony could be tossed.

Also, Sutton himself could face serious sanctions, like Nifong.

As well he should.

Chaos Theory
Well, how is this for nuts? The United States Marine Corps has given $10,000 to La Raza to attend their 2007 Capital Awards. Now even our military is against us, and they can't figure out why there are so many deseters and lack of volunteers?

What illegal Jews? It's all about creating as much chaos as possible so we can't react. Doesn't matter, their all out of here, and soon.

Liberius The Jew Hunter
I'm sorry, the more I read you and your vitriol, I have sincerely come to the conclusion you are a sick person.

I know you don't see this, but you are completely obsessed. Your bias textbook knowledge of propaganda Jewish conspiracy tripe is unbelievable. I can honestly say you wouldn't know a real Jew if he came up and shoved a matzo ball up your behind.

No, you never speak of the Islamic extremists and their plan to diminish not just the Jews (which would give you great joy) but Christians as well. No, you never speak of them, why? Because you happen to like the fact they wish to wipe Israel off the map, so you give them a pass?

If you say Jewish people are the most racist, what is that based on? Your own personal experience? Perhaps you're mixing racisim with people who just truly don't happen to like you as a person. Because really, you're not the cuddly type people want to invite over to play Pictionary with, you know? I mean, how many times would you draw the Star of David with an axe going through it?

Your answer for everytihng wrong in the world is the Jews. You say you learned from your Jewish German inlaw? Well, my mother-in-law was a lunatic, but I didn't learn crazy from her.

Face it. Your are obsessed, you are in denial, and you are indeed are a racist.

Speak it loud. Say it proud.

NEW ALERT
The Mexican drug smuggler that testified against Ramos and Compean, has just been indicted for smuggling drugs into the United States. Caught again!! Johnny Sutton has just fessed up to him lying on the stand about not being a drug smuggler.
Bryan R
Sophia and group are also on the Tancredo thread, doing the usual stuff. I'm not answering them personally. I make my comments, and ignore the rest.


Sophia 4.7% unemployment
Represents the number of people still looking for employment. If wages increase people who have given up , especially in the low skill area's would be attracted back into the labor pool.

Nanna,
Thanks for the heads up. I didn't know, and WILL tune in.

Amen to your last line.

Bryan R
Duncan Hunter is going to be on O'Reilly tonight. Thought you might want to watch. I certainly am.

Ignore all those you mentioned.

akagi
didn't you used to be akagai?

H1B Visa - cheap foreign labor
maschrom writes: Friday, Nov 16, 2007 7:08 AM

"If Bill Gates really gave a d@mn he would stop importing cheap labor through the HB visa ( or whatever it's called ) and he would take some of his billions and train AMERICAN STUDENTS to do this work. Oh yea, they'd want to get paid a decent wage."
-----------------------

Don't know about Bill Gates, but there are many other companies who are lusting after cheap foreign labor. Have you seen this video?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCbFEgFajGU

It shows a lawyer giving American businessmen tips on how to write job ads so NO AMERICANS WILL QUALIFY; then their companies can import H1B workers at half the price. I'm afraid we're going to become a nation of CEO's and burger flippers, with not much opportunity between those levels of employment.

Part 2
No, you use those different personas to enable you to take all sides of an issue simply so you can act as a gadfly. Frankly, that’s pathetic. Couple THAT with the absurd biographies you come up with for yourself, and all I can think is that you have absolutely NO life, you sit around in some darkened room with a cold Pepsi and a half-eaten bag of Cheetos at your elbow, you haven’t ever thought a single issue through to anywhere because the issues themselves are meaningless to you, and you just spout off at random anything that pops into your “mind”.

As of now, the personas you present are Robert, Rocky Jones, Len, Jen, Sophia, Devout Agnostic, jetpilot, Treasonous Republican, Traitorous Republicans, and TCA. I’ll update this list as required.

Further, I wrote this as a Word document, and any time you ever bother me again by posting anything to me with my name in it or mentioning anything I’ve posted, I will simply paste this in as my response to you. And from that point forward in that thread, I’m going to ignore anything else you’ve written under any of your guises or personas.

Get it? I’ve had it with you, pipsqueek.

Part 2
No, you use those different personas to enable you to take all sides of an issue simply so you can act as a gadfly. Frankly, that’s pathetic. Couple THAT with the absurd biographies you come up with for yourself, and all I can think is that you have absolutely NO life, you sit around in some darkened room with a cold Pepsi and a half-eaten bag of Cheetos at your elbow, you haven’t ever thought a single issue through to anywhere because the issues themselves are meaningless to you, and you just spout off at random anything that pops into your “mind”.

As of now, the personas you present are Robert, Rocky Jones, Len, Jen, Sophia, Devout Agnostic, jetpilot, Treasonous Republican, Traitorous Republicans, and TCA. I’ll update this list as required.

Further, I wrote this as a Word document, and any time you ever bother me again by posting anything to me with my name in it or mentioning anything I’ve posted, I will simply paste this in as my response to you. And from that point forward in that thread, I’m going to ignore anything else you’ve written under any of your guises or personas.

Get it? I’ve had it with you, pipsqueek.

Sophia aka Robert - Part 1
Still haven't got it yet?

I’m going to take a moment here and tell you something again. It’s also a heads up for other posters who may not yet know you.

You’re a pathetic loser. Every time you show up on a column thread, it’s like a skunk just showed up at a garden party. You ever notice how conversation just seems to kind of dry up when you appear?

And if you didn’t notice, that should tell you something, too.

The fact that you keep trying to hide yourself behind an absolute plethora of different screen aliases tells me you know what a buffoon you really are, and what other posters, those who are still rational from whichever side of the aisle, really think of you.

What I find also interesting is that you -- and by “you” I mean all your personas – don’t really have any true point of view or philosophy. You assume all your different personas simply to try to be provocative. To you, it’s not an issue of advocating a philosophy or ideology or political agenda. It’s simply an amusement thing, trying to elicit responses at which you can snipe, like a little Dennis The Menace with his slingshot. You have nothing meaningful to add to any conversation.

Sophia
I would like to know how you or Tancredo would deal with the loss of labor if all illegals were deported...

It called the law of supply and demand. If there is a lack of employee's you entice them with rewards. Like raise the wage until you get the employees you need. Now for my question: Do you blame the low unemployment rate on BUSH?

SteveL
Increasing legal immigration isn't the answer. We could allow 10 million people a year in here legally and it would still be national suicide. There are only so many people we can assimilate each year. We currently allow a million people a year (more than all the other nations combined). We need to cut back on legal immigration as well and get people assimilated. In 1924 legal immigration was shut down to about 100,000 a year for the next 40 years. Why? Because people weren't assimilating.

One of the reason people come here illegally is because it is cheaper than the legal way and alot of them have diseases and would not make it through the medical screening process and they are uneducated and can't speak English so the sneak in here. OK, I believe that was 4 reasons!

Hahaha, Lodestar!
Thanks, man, and that joke is fuuuuuuunny. I'd never heard it before.

I wish I was better at telling jokes. I get into an environment where people are telling jokes, and all of a sudden my mind goes totally blank. Can't remember a one.


Kinda like liberals and facts.


Steve/muslims/Tancredo.
Steve I met Tancredo last winter and asked him point blank if he were president would he stop Muslim immigration to this country and he said yes! He said he has a list of countries that would not be allowed to immigrate here. How refreshing for someone to come right out and say it! We should not issue any more student visas to mulims period. Case in point, the two egyptian boys that were headed to the Naval Station in Goose Creek, SC with explosives. Hadn't heard much of it on the national news.

Ironic that a Jewish group has joined up with the illegal Hispanics. I read the other day that at least 44% of illegal Hispanics are anti-semites. They are also quite racists against blacks. At least 12 blacks have been shot since July of '06 in Canoga Park, CA by illegals.

I've been holding out
I have supernatural powers given to me as an agent of the almighty BAAL. I have been told Akagi is really from the mainland. He is a phyops agent and one of the many homeless contributors to the Billary campaign! :-)

reply to: BrianR
I will never get time to read so many posts, but wanted to say that I really admire a fellow wisexxx!
You can sure come up with some classic rejoinder, as well as sagacious and cogent analysis.

Here is an old favorite to lighten the tone here a bit...comic relief-- a drunk in a bar who imagines himself a stud looks at a Christie Brinkley who suddenly happens to be next to him... he blurts out-- "My god, I would love to get into your pants." She looks back at him like he was gum stuck on a shoe, and replies-- "No thanks, I already have one xxxhole in there."

Speak of the Devil, Vic!
Look who just showed up!

Too funny!

Sorry, Akagi
Immigration law is still de facto "racist" according to your ilk, because we still apportion out visas based on country of origin.

Try to get a visa if you're Russian. Lotsa luck on that. I know THAT one from personal experience.

Your post is not only meaningless, it's not even vaguely accurate.

Further, if you categorize into "racist" considerations such as cultural issues, ideology, things like that, well, then color me racist.

We have no obligation to let in a bunch of uneducated yahoos from any country just because they'd like to be here, and when you consider that there are some countries in the world where schooling is a rarity, and we let in extremely few if any citizens of such type, that, bud, is de facto "racism" by your definition. Ethiopia comes immediately to mind.

We don't have to let in religious extremists. As a matter of fact, we should kick out the ones who are here.

Yup. I'm a racist. You're a nutjob.

Nah, Vic
I don't think so. I've considered it, though, but I will say Akagi has much better grammar and sentence structure, though his phrasing isn't natively idiomatic.

He doesn't use the signature terminology, either.


Vic
No Vic been Akagi from day one.

And care to cite some examples--detailed examples--of my faulty logic?


One more thing
BrainR:

I didn't say the US can't have a racist immigration policy (but that does seem unlikely since you are out numbered by the political and economic elites that control how things work), I said I oppose a racist US immigration policy as should other non-racists, if you don't that says something about you.


BrianR
I have caught up with the posts, and after a careful review I have noted a certain style of argument and phrasing from Akagi. That lack of real logic and argumentative style reminds me so much of he who has so many names.

Perhaps we have another false flag operation here educated by Google.

Immigration
BrainR:

Chinese immigration law is racist as only one of the 54 recognized ethnic groups can be a PRC citizen. So you want the US to be like China or Japan? And only a leftist in your warped mind.

And the US immigration laws were racist until it was replaced in 1965.

And except for DV-1 (which should be eliminated), immigration isn't based today on country origin at all.

And OnceaMarine:

There are many on TH that want to return to the law as it existed in 1965--but yes, despite the wishes of CIS and NumbersUSA, the pre-1965 law is done for good.

Akagi
No thanks Tojo. I think you are doing just fine on your own. No need for any prompting from me. Feel free to ramble on. You are doing my work for me.

Akagi

....Get off it, fellow. You spend all your time attacking a law that hasn't existed, and never will again, since 1965.

Let's talk about now. You are only stirring up resentment, which generally doesn't exist, against your fellow Asians. Think man. What is your purpose in going toe to toe with real Americans. By that I mean Americans who love and respect their country.

Surely an Asian of Japanese or Chinese origin can understand love of country.


Here ya go, Akagi
First of all, if you're "indifferent" to America -- and it's clear from other things you've written that you don't live here -- why do you waste your time and the time of others by even posting your gibberish here?

AS to your other question. Were the laws in the 19th Century racist (your reference)?

Yep. Legislators were very clear in those days in talking about the "Yellow Menace", among other things.

But by "pre-1965" (pretty vague). Nope.

See, you leftist guys seem to have this awesome capability to read minds. Poor little me, I can't do that. I don't know what's in someone else's mind. All I know is what they say, write, and do.

You can point to what YOU perceive as some inequitable number of people being admitted into the country, and claim you divine racism in that.

Further, as to restricting people based on their ethnicity or whatever: hey! We do that all the time, by assigning a number of allowable immigrants to a country. Many if not most countries are composed of one or two prevailing races or ethnicities. That's just a fact of life. How many Blacks live in China? From that probably astonishingly low number, can one then conclude that China is officially racist against Blacks?

Hmmmmm.......?

We can choose whatever criteria we desire to determine who to let into OUR country, be it ethnic, racial, cultural, ideological, whatever. The Constitution has no force outside our own borders. No one in the world has a RIGHT to come here.

And if as a nation we decide we want to tailor our immigration policy to protect and preserve our culture, well.... that sounds like a helluva good plan to me.


I think Akagi is another sneak attack
We need another LT Best to dive on him.

One more thing
Sandman you sound about as bright as Anne take that as the insult it was meant to be.

Care to then refute my arguements, care to even express what arguements you disagree with that I have made that are said to be going down?


Yeah, Sammy
It's totally meaningless anymore, and has completely lost its impact.

Just like earlier, with HalDunce, I get called "racist" and I just call the other guy -- invariably some libdolt -- a Communist.

Hey, if all we're gonna do is sling meaningless names and labels at each other based on jingoism, I can get right down to that with the best of them.


Racism
Hey SandMan:

Like me to reference the many other things associated with the name Akagi?

Pro-American, hardly, but not anti-American either. Indifferent.

BrainR, I don't use the term lightly as others, but the pre-1965 law was racist as were many other laws from that era

pre-1965
Well, how is this for logic Brain.

1882-1942, legal Chinese immigration set to zero, 1942 set to 100. Sounds pretty racist to me, care to explain how restricting people based just on their race or national origin is not racist?

BrianR
The lazy and indiscriminate use of any word or term tends to render it meaningless -- that's what the libs have done to racism as they seem to find it as the motivating force of everything white America (especially conservatives) believes in and stands for in this country.

Personally, I prefer being called a nativist -- I'm not sure exactly why it just seems to fit my image of myself better.

Akagi the tone deaf
Am I the only person who finds it ironic that our illustrious anti-American poster “Akagi” has selected as his nom de plume the name of a Japanese Imperial Navy carrier involved in the infamous December 1941 attack on Pearl Harbor? A real Yankee Doodle Dandy, that Akagi!

It is somewhat apropos though, considering his arguments are going down about as fast as his namesake did at Midway.

Akagi if your statement is true
As for English, most of the illegals are poor peasants who aren't even fully literate in Spanish.

They why the hell would we want them here? To make us a third world nation?

Folks
Be well I am off to a meeting at my local VFW. Have a great weekend.

What About...
Document Fraud
Tax Fraud
Social Security Fraud
Identity Theft

Are those insignificant crimes? Well virtually every illegal has to commit at least one of those offenses in order to live, work, and breathe in this country.

Oh and by the way, If you or I committed any of those offenses it would probably land us in jail.

There ya go, Sammy, my fellow racist
The first and last refuge of the truly logic-challenged.

Call the other person "racist".

Pathetic.


And on That Note
Well then call me a racist. I don't know much about the 1965 law (and I'm too tired at this point to get a history lesson and lecture) but I do know that it was very restrictive. If it didn't let in certain types of ethnicities than so be it -- somehow we still remained the greatest nation on earth. I just feel we need a time out of all immigration after decades of hyper growth to digest what we have here now -- that would apply to people from Mexico, Haiti, or even Sweden and England. To paraphrase Jack Nicholson, "Go sell immigration somewhere else, we're all stocked up here".

Sammy
"I Get It So any attempt to reform our legal immigration system is racist? Much better to simply let a bad system remain in place than suffer the cries of racism. Can't you guys be more creative? "

I don't object to reform at all. I object to hysteria and I am amazed that throughout WWII and the entire Cold War we had unsecured borders against enemies that really could destroy us but now after all these years everyone one is acting crazed. By all means enforce the laws and reform immigration but sigh stop seeming so frightened and weak. Think and pass a good law. The word amnesty is a joke - since when does anyone need amnesty for an insignificant offense. The law sees Illegal immigration as a less serious offense than jay walking...

We desperately need immigrants.
On our own, we're a mediocre bunch.

Only a nation of mediocrity could have thousands of businesses inviting/hiring millions of illegal immigrants, and in addressing the problem, everyone would blame . . .

The immigrants!

We probably want to give them licenses and such because we're so clueless on our own.


No
No, Sammy, but the pre-1965 law was racist and so returning to something similar would be racist as well.


Hey, Akagi,
You want to refight the battle you lost last time on gun control?

Here's the link to today's column on the issue:

http://townhall.com/columnists/JanetMLaRue/2007/11/15/supre me_court_may_target_second_amendment

I noticed you showed up earlier and posted once or twice before leaving Dodge.

Come on back over there, and I'll be more than happy to hand you your head on a plate.... again.

That'll give you time to dream up some more creative deaths you can wish on me.

What a mental midget!

No, Hal, nobody mentioned
terrorism except YOU.

That's not at all the thrust of this column, nor is it the main reason to control the borders.

But, hey, you've got a corner on irrelevancy at the moment; hang on tight.


I Get It
So any attempt to reform our legal immigration system is racist? Much better to simply let a bad system remain in place than suffer the cries of racism. Can't you guys be more creative?

BrianR
" The problem's at our southern border.... but Hey! Let's prove we're not "racist", and deal with a non-existent problem first!"

Wait I thought we had to control illegals because of the threat of terrorism?

"How many illegals pour over the Canadian border, HalDolt? "

I have no clue but most terrorists have been arrested there


Ole Miss Law
Liberius:

Should have gone to Ole Miss Law instead, from what I know it is a fairly conservative LS. But LS in general are fairly liberal no matter.


Logic
Yes, BrainR, you really made me into fool when you explained to me why different states have various degrees of restriction on gun ownership and yet the 4th amendment and most of the 5th are applied equally in the states. Oh wait, you never did answer that now did you?


Hahahaha, Phil
Well, there you have it. THAT'S the quality of the discussion here.


Does that make ANY sense to you at all?


Yes Sammy
Ending racist laws is such a bad idea. What other race-based law should be reenacted?




Oh Canada
Phil:

While I agree the Mexican border is the bigger issue, isn't saying that most terrorists have been caught on the Canadian border and thus it is not as dangerous and Arabs stick out like a sore them in Canada owing to Canada's liberal immigration policy undermine your arguement?

Akagi
Stopping the illegal part would be a significant and huge step, but legal immigration is still in desperate need of a significant overhaul as well. The case I have highlighted is proof of that. Can you think of anything that Teddy Kennedy has left his grimy fingerprints on that has turned out well? Well his 1965 immigration Act is still the framework for today's system. Like Teddy Kennedy himself, our current legal immigration system needs to go!

Vic
Yes, Vic. If you try to convince me that the Wong decision applies only to "legal" residents, then you are going to have tough going. Also, if you try to tell me people should have their citizenship revoked and deported for their expressing First Amendment rights, you'll have a tough time going there too.


Hal
The Canadian does not pose anywhere close to the risk of the Mexican border. First, Canada is not a major source of drug trafficing. Second, the Canadian government is not chasing its citizens out of the country at the point of a gun. Third, it seems that every time we capture a terrorist entering the country, it's at the Canadian border so maybe that border is just not as inviting to terrorists. Fourth, Canadian troops and police are not firing at our border agents nor providing protection during while cross the border with drug shipments. Fifth, Arab terrorists stick out like a sore thumb in the Great White North. I could go on. Suffice it to say that the calls for increased border control HAVE included improving the northern border, it's just not as urgent.

Vic..... heh heh heh
You can't "argue" or reason with them.

All you can do is make them look like the fools they are through ridicule.


Yeah, Hal the Communist
That makes a lot of sense. The problem's at our southern border.... but Hey! Let's prove we're not "racist", and deal with a non-existent problem first!

How many illegals pour over the Canadian border, HalDolt?


BrianR
I think I have been really stupid today trying to argue with Akagi and HalD. I keep saying that I am not going to do that because it's the same thing as arguing with a brick.

I guess I'll just break off this thread and go back to reading. Have a good day.

...."It's Way Past "Silly".. Mike.G.....
....As our friend "Lodestar" states matter of factly,(sic) it is all about "socializing the United States of America".

There is not and should not be any quibbling about the aims and aspirations of those who bode well for this Tsunami invasion. Mike Gallagher, make no mistake about it.

You have flailed your arms and uttered great words, but you are "leading this down a wrong path, and I have to ask why. Who asked you to take a new tack on this and poo poo the whole thing as "just a bunch of loonies" out doing their thing.??.

Why Gallagher are you participating in the ruination of this country.??. Just for a few dollars of ill gotten gain.??. I'll bet we understand you better than you understand us.

Go ahead and shove that shovel full of tripe(bull crappo). See how far it gets you.

Americans are waking up, not to your cup of joe, but to the truth. Some people want to totally change this country into something unrecognizable by any American who loves his country and that for which it stands.




Folks
If you wanted to close borders to counter terrorism you would be clamoring for the Canadian Border to be tightened. Any terrorist will go that way first not Mexico. Why not have a good highway rather than a walk in the desert?

Sammy
Well, how about stopping the 2-3 million illegals first which is 2-3 times all legal immigration. if you did that you wouldn't have to worry about the legal flow.


Apparently Hal decided
discretion was the better part of valor, and headed for the hills.

Good riddance.


LOL, Akagi
What would possibly make you think I consider you "nice"?

Actually, I consider you an unjustifiably self-impressed, pompous blowhard.


Akagi
I don't relay the above story to represent this as the average, but nonetheless it is illustrative of the folly of a system that would allow this kind of absurdity. I wouldn't however call this example an outlier -- on the high end probably -- but by no means is this just an isolated case worthy of dismissing. If the average is even 25% of this example it is easy to quickly see how out of control things quickly become when set against the millions of desperately poor legal and illegal immigrants entering our country every year.

BrainR
Don't ever consider me nice. I am not that at all. I'm mean spirited and vindicitive.

And maschrom:

No, I don't use it as my bible, but I use it as the case law currently stands. If you don't like it, get a case in front of the courts and get it overturned. yes, the courts make stupid decisions (Kelo, NCAA v. Tarkanian or Korematsu v. US), but that is the law as it stands. And I'd hope you'd not think Brandenburg was incorrect.

And Vic:

Political Science and while Wong was a child of legal residents, the decision doesn't clarify this--it says--"a child born in the United States of parents of foreign descent who, at the time of the child's birth are subjects of a foreign power but who have a permanent domicile and residence in the United States and are carrying on business in the United States, and are not employed in any diplomatic or official capacity under a foreign power, and are not members of foreign forces in hostile occupation of United States territory, becomes a citizen of the United States at the time of birth."

Yes, it says what it says it says. And in this case, it says all children born to those living in the US a permanent residents--legal or not are US citizens.

It does only take 5--it also takes a law to bring up Wong--you think the US Congress is going to do that, you think a president will sign that? And you think the SCOTUS will over turn over a hundred years of established law--not likely.



Steve L
When immigrants come in legally, they have to go to a lot of trouble to get their papers and everything has to be documented (even more so to get citizenship). They have to pay SS, Income Tax and healthcare.

They can come in illegally, work for cash and not pay any fees or taxes and now they are even given healthcare and welfare.

I work with many Canadian Nurses, they have to do it by the book while the illegals do nothing but take.

Muslim immigration is going to be a huge problem but make no mistake; Mexico is already a huge problem.

Virginia Patriot
LOL, I figured everyone had blown right past that post this morning.

It seems that nobody here cares that these criminals are shooting at our law enforcement agents and killing people on the border.

If I was president I would rotate some of the rapid deployment forces to the border and start wholesale killing of these people anytime they fired on law enforcement.

Sammy
yes and one also killed a bunch of students at VA. Tech too. Care to bring any other wild outliers into the matrix?

So in 20 years, once guy over time brings in say 100 people. That works to 5 a year 0.000005 of the total legal immigrants in a year for one year. About the same number that come every 7 minutes. Nope--on the whole--not that big of a deal. Ever heard of the fallacy dicto secundum quid ad dictum simpliciter? Since one immigrant brought in over many many years 100 people, then all immigrants must over time bring in a 100 people.




Hal Versus Akagi!
The Bout of the Century!

Free tickets!

See how they "argue" their points!

In the far corner, Akagi! Who wishes his opponents horrible deaths by fire, murder, or Terrorist Acts!

In the other corner, Hal! Who claims marvelous mind-reading abilities, and the power to divine his opponents "real but unstated" motivations!

Who will win?????

Is the power of the Evil Eye of Akagi more awsome than the Psychic Power of Hal???

Come one, come all!!!!!


One more for the road
Ok, Akagi. You are like a two year old who has slap wore out their parents. However I am concerned that you rely so heavily on case law when not all were correctly decided or interpreted. You throw law at us like it is your bible. There is a lot of bad law out there. There is also a lot to be said for good old common sense. And don't try to tell me the lawyers have all of it. If you need proof just look at all the kooky lawsuits that are filed by all those genius lawyers. The judges in many cases are no better ( think weirdo who sued over the missing pants ).

Common sense my friend, common sense. That's all I ask.

Vic
The answer to your question way up the thread is NO. We apparently don't even have anyone with the 'nads to enforce our own laws within our own country, let alone chase criminals into Mexico.

See, Akagi, that's the difference
between us.

You wish me dead, and hopefully in the most horrible way possible.

I wish you'd grow a brain. You'd benefit from it.


Now.... which of us is the nicer person?


Also
Also the correct number of years is only 21 -- not 30. He first came here 30 years ago but he wasn't granted amnesty until 1986. 1986 is the year that his village in Mexico started to empty out in their legal migration to the U.S through their connections to just one man.

Read further in the article and you can easily calculate the millions of dollars that amnesty cost the US taxpayer for just 1 individual. Not a one of his children or any of the others discussed with the possible exception of the daughter working in a hospital will ever contribute more than they take. Of course the author of this article had to speak Spanish because we couldn't expect an immigrant family with origins going back ONLY 30 years to speak fluent English by now.

HalDolt
You and Akagi are in a race to see who can post the most ridiculous stuff.

Y'all are in pretty much a dead heat so far.

As I wrote, you're mindreading skills seem to be at pretty much zero, but that's not surprising given any lack of meaning or depth to any of the drivel you usually write.

So, I'm a racist and you're a Communist.

Don't deny it, Hal. Confession's good for the soul. You'll feel more at ease with yourself if you just 'fess up.


Akagi
Why would a sociology prof have to review case law? I had to read, understand, and implement the code of federal regulations on a regular basis but I will admit that I have had no formal training in law.

However, since I retired (almost 2 years ago) I have read every book in the library system here on con law and I have studied all of these cases that you throw about like a 3 year old pizza crust.

First off, you should understand that as one ex-justice put it, the law means what they say it means. In other words they have had no intention on actually using the Consitution. They wished for an outcome based one way, and stretched what ever they desired to make the ruling fit. Wong and Plyer were both decided wrongly. And in any case Wong was about children of LEGAL immigrants to illegal migrants. Plyer was simply bad law with no basis. All it will take is 5 justices who agree and both of those cases will go back into the dust bin of history of bad law.

Anyway, start reading your flight safty bulliton and don't go away mad, just go away.

Sorry, Akagi, Mr. Legal Luminary
Re the prohibition of the possession of guns by illegal aliens, it's not a state issue; it's a federal ban.

To wit:

"On October 21, 1998, Public Law 105-277 (112 Stat. 2681), Omnibus
Consolidated and Emergency Supplemental Appropriations Act, 1999
(hereafter, ``the Act''), was enacted. The Act amended the Gun Control
Act of 1968 (GCA), as amended (18 U.S.C. Chapter 44). One of the new
statutory provisions prohibits, with certain exceptions, the transfer
to and possession of firearms and ammunition by aliens in the United
States in a nonimmigrant classification."



Sorry, bud. Wrong again. As usual.

correction
check that. I meant to say This QUALIFIES you for many titles (Democrat, Liberal, Fifth Columnist, etc.) but loyal American is not one of them.

2nd Amendment
Well, yes, BrainR I do wish that. Better luck next time...who knows maybe I'll get lucky and you'll get killed in a massive earthquake or more ironic by an illegal alien--like when Rep. Larry McDonald was shot down on KAL 007 by the Soviets.

But despite how incorrect you are on the subject, states (and their creations) can pass whatever laws they wish in regards to guns which is why some states have very strict laws and others more liberal ones. You don't have that with the 4th or 5th now do you? Now why is that?

Because unlike the 2nd, the 4th (and much of the 5th) have been incorporated and the 2nd never has.


Hal Donahue,
You are not a loyal American, as you so wishfully bleat. You are in league with, giving aid and comfort to, and working mightily to run interference for, brazen, lawbreaking foreigners who are in this country illegally. This disqualifies you for many titles (Democrat, Liberal, Fifth Columnist, etc.) but loyal American is not one of them.

BrianR
"My "racism" equates to your Communism, you idiot. That was sarcasm and irony, and you took it seriously? Are you really that mentally challenged?"

It seemed so akin to your normal language and dialog I took it at face value an admission of your racism and an accusiation toward me.




BrainR
Nope, not a lawyer, Vic. Just an academic--my field does require the study of case law--which you seem to lack a grounding in.

Those caught deep in the interior have due process rights just like anyone. They have a hearing in front of an immigration judge and can appeal any decision made by such judge and access to the entire US legal system including any Federal Court.

Many legals don't fight removal since they just go back home for what is basically a vacation and eventually cross back into the US--saves time and effort and doesn't get the "ordered removed" stamp on them.



HalD
When your jaws are jackin' the lies are stakin'. Oh, that's right, you aren't talking here. I guess anytime you post it's huigh probability it's a lie.

For example today you blame Bush for the immigration mess. Now I will admit that Bush tried to team up with your buddy drunkard Ted the swimmer but Bush was stopped. This mess started with LBJ, was made worse by druckard Ted in 1986 and another attempt was made this year by drauckard ted with assistance from McShame and Bush. The only reason it was stopped was a few real Republicans stepped in.

But that's OK, I want you commies to keep pushing this issue as well as the tax increase. There won't be a Lamocrat Party after 08.

Oh, Akagi
You want to go down this road again?

Last time you ended up wishing the fires had burned me up.

Hey, bud, you'd better think it over......



Hahahahahahahahahahahaha!


Chain Migration For Dummies
Akagi says, "in 30 years he brings 9 people, what is that one every 3 years--oh the humanity."

Whoa, read the article a little closer! Those 9 siblings also then brought in their spouses and children who in turn then have copiously produced ninos and so on and so on. Get it? That's why they call it CHAIN MIGRATION! Even Pablo's parents were brought in legally. The final tally from just this one illegal is easily in the hundreds -- so high that they couldn't even estimate a total. Again, all that from just ONE illegal made legal.


Phil
I like you too much.

2nd Amendment
Because as I explained a number of times, the 2nd Amendment doesn't apply to the states and states can pass any law they wish in regards to guns. And most if not all states don't allow illegal aliens to own guns--legally. It doesn't stop them from getting them anyway though. But since at the state level there is no right to own a gun (unless your state constitution provides for such), I have no problems with states passing any laws they wish toward guns--for US citizens, legal aliens or illegal ones. It is a state issue and I support state rights.

And maschrom no, if you are going to talk about legal issues like immigration or citizenship you should be able to cite the case law. Otherwise, you'll just end up saying stupid things like Vic. Who thinks people who exercise their First Amendment rights should be deported.


"Common sense", Vic?
Don't you mean "any sense at all"?


Akagi
Obviously you did not go the links I provided because neither one had anything to do with speaking English.

One was a flight safety briefing for you to read on the flight back to Taiwan and the other was an article describing how Chinese execute people.

And I have seen no posting for my level of education and articles for peer review. However;

I am educated in Classical and Nuclear Physics and have done inumerable reviews of designs. Now that is not the same thing as "peer reviewing" an article for a publication because I was actually held accountable for my reviews.

BrianR
Are you going to introduce me to your new friends? They seem so nice.

Well, then, HalDolt
My "racism" equates to your Communism, you idiot. That was sarcasm and irony, and you took it seriously? Are you really that mentally challenged?

Don't answer. It's plain for all to see.

Don't you and Robert have a play date, or something?


BrianR
He is a proffesor at a University with "advanced degrees". He is not a lawyer and he has zero common sense.

Vic
name one lie please

Wong
You can argue Wong all you want, but the key phrase is "permanent resident." It doesn't say legal, it just says permanent resident a person living here for years, having a job, a residence, utilities, etc is a permanent resident. Have you read the decision, Vic? You can say the drafters of the 14th never meant it to cover illegals, but that was the effect of Wong--game, set, match. So unless you can get the SCOTUS to narrow that part of the 14th defined by Wong, that ship has sailed.

But if you want, get a law passed and we can have a pool to see how long it'll take a court to strike it down--I'll betting hours.

And what does that link have to do with anything? There are plenty of visitors that come to the US that don't speak English. Should people not travel to any country they don't speak the language of? Curious again, Vic, how many languages do you speak?

I notice you've yet to answer my question on your level of education and experience with peer reviewed articles. Let me take a wag--high school?

So I am Wong, very funny. Actually in standard Chinese, Wong is Huang. Wong is the Romanization from Taishanhua.





BrianR
As long as you admit it Brain so no one is misled. But I am a loyal American not a Communist.

HalD
Is your brain really hardwired to where you do not have to select the "vomit" setting to spew forth your lies?

BrianR 1:00 PM
ROFLMAO!!!!!

Akagi- are you trying to bore everyone to tears. I sense your intention is to annoy while at the same time throwing legal cases at everyone to prove what a smarty-pants you are. What are you a legal aid?

You're truly a moron, Hal
Go play in the freeway. We're actually discussing issues here.

Incidentally, Hal-baby
Your earlier posts, as I review them, were trying to paint me specifically as racist.

You: "But those are not your true concern are they?"

So not only are you predictable and irrelevant, you're insulting, too.

How about this, Hal?

Yeah, I'm a racist.

YOU'RE a Communist!

Sound about right? I like it.

BrianR
"There are illegal aliens in the Armenian community, too."

Answer the question. They aren't your real concern are they?

Yeah, Hal, yawn!
Totally irrelevant to the discussion at hand.

Of course you libdolts always try to make everything a race issue.

Sad, predictable, and irrelevant.


BrianR
The race card may be tired and is definately old but still racists are alive and well. I have seen the large numbers of them at anti immigrant rallies

PS, Hal
I know the Armenian comm unity very well. My Mom's Armenian (now naturalized American).

There are illegal aliens in the Armenian community, too.

Deport 'em!

That answer your silly question?


Hey, Hal, if you were any
more transparent, you'd be a window.

Go play in the freeway now.


Hey, Akagi, in your list
of rights the aliens supposedly have, why'd you leave out the 2nd Amendment?

And how come yesterday, when I bought another gun to add to my already awsome collection, there was a question on the form that asked if I was an illegal alien? And why would that bar an illegal alien (how I LOVE using that term!) from buying and owning a gun?

I mean, bud, what's up with THAT?

Can't have that, can we?

All illegal aliens should have the "right" to own guns, too!


BrianR
"Very lame attempt at trying to equate the issue of legal immigration and illegal invasion."

Oh not at all there are illegals in everyone of those havens. I even meet a few of the illegal Irish in Boston last time I was there. But those are not your true concern are they?

Akagi
Chinese executions:

China does not publish statistics about the death penalty saying these are a state secret.
Executions are often carried out immediately after a public sentencing rally and the criminal's family is made to pay for the bullet.
The prisoner's arms are shackled behind them and they are made to kneel down before receiving a single bullet fired at close range into the back of the head or neck by a soldier or policeman or by a bullet fired into the heart from behind using an automatic rifle. (Click here for photo)

http://www.richard.clark32.btinternet.co.uk/shooting.html

Anne
They are as much illegal as you are unless you never even jay walk, speed or violate any other minor infraction. Illegal immigration under the law is most often a MINOR infraction akin to jay walking

Nope, Akagi, wrong-o
People in the US illegally have no rights to anything other than a boot in the butt to get them back over the border,and humane treatment until it happens.

All it takes is an administrative hearing to get them back on their way. It's done every single day for every alien that's actually caught. A quick admin hearing and Adios, Muchacho!


Vic
"HalD
When are you leaving the country? "

Oh I am just a foot soldier in the effort to restore the country after the trashing she recieved at your hands. Not leaving

Rights
BrainR:

They have the majority of the same rights as you do--the First, the Fourth, the Fifth, Sixth, etc cover them as you. And they have due process rights too which makes any "quick status hearing" a fantasy.

The first generations in the past assimilated into the US no better than those today. And the Germans, Chinese, Japanese, Swedes, Poles, etc didn't have ties to the US either.

Anne:

When did I say they weren't illegal? Having problems reading again are we?






Akagi
We have already argued Wong and Plyer and you are Wong anyway. You should read this:

https://www.flightsafety.org/ccs/ccs_nov-dec04.pdf

On your way back to Taiwan.

And BTW; the place I retired from had people working at it from all over the world.

Oh, wait, HalD, I get it!
You're trying to play the tired old race card!


Hahahahahahahahahahahaha!

Total non-sequitur, HalD, as usual
Very lame attempt at trying to equate the issue of legal immigration and illegal invasion.

Try again.

Akagi
That's true, they do have rights: to a quick status hearing and a ride out of the country.

Don't mistake or confuse the waves of LEGAL immigrants in the past, who assimilated quite well, with the tsunami of illegals flooding over the border today. We've never experienced anything like this in our history. Further, a significant percentage -- particularly of those who come from Mexico -- have no ties to this country as they're simply here to earn money to send back to their families -- who remain in the old country.

People like that have no ties to this country; it's simply a cash cow to them. No ties, no assimilation.

What we really need to do is secure the border, then kick in employment sanction enforcement. Dry up the income, the magnet's gone, and they'll self-deport.


Akagi and the pro-illegal group don't

get it.

The people who come into this country illegally are called "illegal aliens" for a reason!!!!

'Cause they're here "ILLEGALLY!!!"

It doesn't get much clearer than that!




BrianR/Akagi
"your assertion is absurd
Come to LA and tell me how well illegal aliens "assimilate". "

Yup all those Chinese in Chinatown,Italians in NYC Little Italy and let's not forget all those Irish in Boston. What is your real concern?


Lodestar I agree
Support the SAVE act!
Hunter 08

BrainR:
Not at all.

And if you did have contact with a large number of immigrants and their children as I do, you'd know very well than the children of immigrants do assimilate. Unless you have some perverse definition of assimilation that means an immigrant or a child of an immigrant must be devoid of all links to the other society.

As for the protests, there were also the usual suspects of US radicals too like ANSWER and the Socialists Workers Party. How many of those marchers were 2nd generation, US citizens.

What non-existent rights, were they demanding exactly. Since many of the rights you enjoy also apply to aliens--legal as well as illegal--like the First Amendment for example.

As for not wanting them 5 minutes more, well there are 10-30 million of them and they have due process rights--so good luck with that.


Vic
Would that be Wong?

Wong declares that any child born to a pernament resident is a US citizen. Note it doesn't say "legal"

So a illegal living in the US, having a residence, a job, utilities, etc would under Wong be considered a pernament resident. Now for those that just entered the US and give birth, you could make a case they are a US citizen under Wong, but that is not how it is applied--any person born in the US that is not born to US diplomats is considered a US citizen by the US.

And Afroyim v. Rusk (1967) has nothing to do with immigration but loss of citizenship.

And you care nothing about what the courts say in this area? A real law and order man are you?

What is the other case, Plyler?

If you want to debate case law, you should at least be able to cite the germane cases.

Still waiting to find out how far you went in school and your exposure to peer reviewed academic articles.

Also when did I say I supported illegal immigration, ever?

Can you read and understand what you have read at least?

And as a TSU supporter, I am no friend of China and China wouldn't care too much for me.

Also China executes people in the back of the head, not the neck and it executes people for crimes like rape, murder, corruption. People like me end up in the lao gai. And if you read Afroyim, you'll see your deporation idea is impossible. You might also read the Constitution--the First and Fourteenth Amendments and how it defines treason.

Also read Brandenberg v. Ohio (1969)

BTW, Akagi
You claim you have more contact than the "immigrant community" than me? Based on what? That's a pure and inaccurate assumption on your part, as my Mom is a legal immigrant and naturalized citizen.

Want to reconsider your statement?


BTW, Akagi
I don't care about third generation, as I don't want the illegals to be here five MINUTES longer than it takes to herd them on a bus or plane back to wherever the hell they came from.

Well, Akagi, to answer your question
How about marching by the tens of thousands in downtown LA, waving Mexican flags, and demanding non-existent rights and the "return" of "their" lands to Mexico?

That sound like a lack of assimilation to you?

Sure as hell does to me.


Nanna
So Nana:

How many legal immigrants do you know?

I can give you a German couple: numbers brought to US: zero, one US born child. Another from Taiwan: brought to US: two, their two children. So I can counter each anecdotal case with one of my own. Do you suggest that every legal immigrant is brining in 9 siblings?

HalD
When are you leaving the country?

Akagi
I do not give a sh!t what the courts have ruled in this area. The two cases that all you idiots keep referencing don't mean what ya'll say it does and besides, what I said is what we need to do with people who support violating the border. People who support that, if U.S. citizens are traitors. If not they are just enemies. In either case I would have mercy on them and just deport them instead of giving them what they deserve. A bullet in the neck. Hey, if this was your beloved China, they would make these people buy the bullet before giving them the pointy end. You again display a great lack of common sense. In addition, you argue in favor of supporting illegal migrants but then turn around say you don't support it.

You sound like Hillary.

Vic
"No nation on earth fails to control it's borders. If you do, it will not be long before you are no longer a nation."

This was managible until the Bush Regime. Their incompetence by not enforcing laws against employing illegals caused this explosion. Now you folks are in complete panic. Come up with an answer but accept responsibility

" And this doesn't even take into account security concerns such as the incompetent FBI and CIA hiring illegal migrants to be agents. "

Again incompetence, incompetence, incompetence what part don't you understand?

Assimilation
About as well as the Germans did in the 19th century I'd say or the Japanese or Chinese.

I'd also want to know what you define as assimilation. Do you expect people to give up everything to become an American? So if a person still reads Chinese newspapers like the World Journal (Shi Jie Ri Bao) is that person not assimilated? How about if they still eat mantou or baozi? How about if they send their kids to weekend schools to learn their language or speak to them in another language than English afterall we know how awful it is to learn another language. I wonder, are those Americans that eat in Chinese restaurants, not real Americans too?

Go find me a second or third generation Hispanic that can't speak English or doesn't watch American TV or listen to American music or doesn't eat American food (whatever that is).

And since I have much more contact I am sure in an immigrant community than you, I know the children assimilate.

jmag
I like your analogy. Thought it was quite funny and am seriously annoyed by people with no sense of humor. As crazy as things are getting laughing helps lower the blood pressure. : )

Liberius. Quit being so serious.

Deport us all
Vic:

I am a strong supporter of legal immigration and I am against illegal immigration. I'd like to see the border secured, I'd like to see a biometric national ID card for US citizens, a biometric pernament resident card for legal pernament residents, and a biometric workers card for workers who are allowed to work in the US on a non-immigrant visa. I'd like to see heavy sanactions on those that hire illegals.

If there was a need for low skilled workers, I'd like to see a true guest worker program. Then the US can decide what to do with those ilelgals inside once the flow has stopped.

But the studies that are done by non-agenda groups show no great impact on the US labor market outside of those in the low skilled and semi-skilled trades. If you cutgrass for a living or mop floors, you will have some downward pressure on your wages. If you're a nuclear engineer, no impact.

As for deporting people and stripping citizenship, please read Afroyim v. Rusk (1967) and the Constitution as it applies to the term treason.

Just curious, how far did you go in school. How many peer reviewed articles have you read or written? Just want to know your sample size so we can judge if your charge of meaningless has any merit.

Akagi......... your assertion is absurd
Come to LA and tell me how well illegal aliens "assimilate".


What a dolt.

Liberius/Doc
Liberius Thank you/

"Doc what does that matter? if we are not going to enforce laws, then i say what the hel*. should we just go back to the wildwest days where things were settled with a gun, you want that? I don't! a law is a law, you break it, it's broke!"

Fine then all laws are valued the same. I want a huge push on jay walkers as well as drug dealers and murders. Lock em all up. Oh and let's not forget all those sodomy laws still on the books... and wait I think there is some on the books for riding horses on Sunday. No all laws are not the same and saying Illegal is illegal is simply wrong. Also, I live near the disgraced town of Hazleton, PA and I have been to their demonstrations. Nearly half the folks at them are out right skin heads, neo nazis etc. Protest all you will but know the stain of racism runs through the whole argument.

Akagi
You poor ignorant Bozo.
take that 9 and times it by several million.
That is what Sammy was trying to show, but you know that don't you? You just can't accept the fact that we are being invaded.
Wait until it hits close to home, you wil be the first one screaming for something to be done!!




Japan
Japan is not better off and it will as time goes on see how more and more worse off they really are. Is it good to have entire villages in rural Japan totally devoid of anyone under say 40 or 50?

India there are 15 different languages and various ethnic groups--outside of religious conflicts, the various lingustic groups that share the same faith are pretty peaceful.

China has hundreds or more of what an objective person would call languages but China calls dialects. I don't see Minbeihua speakers trying to kill Minnanhua speakers or Hainanhua speakers trying to cross the Qiongzhou Haixia to kill Guangdonghua speakers.


Well I see that the thread
has been taken over by idiots and morons. Anyone who favors illegal migration and compares it to legal immigration qualifies on both scores. No nation on earth fails to control it's borders. If you do, it will not be long before you are no longer a nation. And this doesn't even take into account security concerns such as the incompetent FBI and CIA hiring illegal migrants to be agents.

As to "peer reviewed" studies; LOL I guess you libs really love that term. Peer review is MEANINGLESS people. I have seen studies that have shown great costs from this illegal migration. And really, does anyone with an ounce of common sense NOT know that if you flood the market with cheap labor, that wages in the flooded market will be depressed? Get real.

My opinion is that anyone who favors free and open borders is either an ene,my of our country or a traitor. Both should be deported. If a citizen they should have their citizenship stripped first.

Akagi, there is a serious disconnect
You are correct again in your knowledge of history but your opinion in the end is faulty. That was then, this is now. Things are changing.

My own wife told me about meetings that she and other prominent Hispanics used to attend. People have begun saying things like "we don't need to learn English, we are taking over, they will soon have to speak Spanish".

The hubris is clear. There are places now where Hispanics in America will raise the Mexican flag over the America flag or take down the American flag altogether. They're getting away with it. This didn't happen before. In the past, Americans had more pride so they would have never tolerated this. But modern media has taught the gullible Americans that it is immoral not to tolerate the distruction of your borders, language, and culture. We are the bad ones if we love America and try to preseve it.

Sammy
in 30 years he brings 9 people, what is that one every 3 years--oh the humanity.


Better yet, SteveL!
Why don't we make murder legal, too?

That would totally eliminate the murder rate in this country!


Give pharmacist licenses to drug dealers!

That would eliminate the illegal sales of drugs!


Akagi
The enthic unity has always been the great strength of Japan. Of course, ethnic supremacy is no excuse to violate the Golden Rule. The best thing to ever happen to Japan was the influence of Christians there at the end of WWII.

The reality is that nations are formed around ethic unity. While I don't believe that the story of the Tower of Babel is literally true, it actually does illustrate a totally valid point: if people are divided by language and culture they will fight among each other and a society will become disfunctional as a result.

While I am idealistic about humans treating each other as merely individuals, the truth is that diversity breeds divisiveness.

Japan is far better off by maintaining their ethic balance. America is far worse off by allowing the Anlgo majority disappear.

Immigration
Liberius:

They do assimilate this is one of the largest lies being told by the anti-immigration crowd, who I suspect are too stupid to know their own history.

In many parts of the US in the 19th Century, whole towns spoke nothing but German, there were major newspapers in German, if there had been radio and TV back then there would have been German radio and TV stations too. In the Civil War, there were entire regiments of Germans--battlefield commands given in German. Other areas had large number of Poles, Swedes, Italians, Greeks, etc etc. I haven't seen too many US-based German newspapers these days. My Japanese newspaper, the Ashai Shimbun has to be flown in from NYC by airmail. The children of these immigrants learned the language, their children forgot their grandparent's language. They assimilated and the children of these immigrants, legal and illegal will too.

I'll ask what I asked Anne:

If I dropped you into rural Tainan county and you had to cut sugarcane 8 hours a day, how fast would you learn Taiwanese or Chinese? I've known lao wai who just "taught" English and after more than a year they could say maybe "I want a beer."

I know this Ph.D. who teachs (in English) at a university in Taiwan as a adjunct professor--his wife is Taiwanese. When asked if he knew any Chinese, his reply was--a little but it is too hard. And his work consists of running his mouth and he has a native speaker living with him.

Legal immigration is controlled--greatly controlled. Canada and Australia take more immigrants per capita than the US. What is out of control is illegal immigration which is twice or three times the amount of legal immigrants.

....And My Vote Goes To....
Whichever candidate that tells me rounding up and deporting 12 million lawbreaking illegals is NOT too tough a job for him.

It seems to me than when a man has a job to do and he tells you the job is just too tough for him, that it is impossible for him to do that job, it seems to me that man is telling you he is incompetent.

It seems more so when he lies to you about why you should not even care if he does that job.

Do you REALLY believe that someone who broke the law by illegally entering your country; who obtained fake/stolen papers and then stole your or your countryman's job...do you REALLY believe that person is, "...decent, honest people who come here to do jobs no American will do.."????

Hmm, sounds REAL honest and decent to me.

Chain Migration
Here's a link for you Akagi...

http://www.newsobserver.com/news/v-print/story/582583.html


From one illegal granted amnesty in 1986...

"In the three decades since his crossing, all nine of his siblings followed, bringing spouses and children. The Baltazar clan, now too numerous to count, stretches from Eastern North Carolina, where its members started out working the fields, to Florida, Texas and Colorado.

But one example of how chain migration is out of control.




Akagi
Your knowledge of immigration law is correct but your opinions are atrocious. You should just admit that you don't care about what's best for the US. You have a conflict of interest with the U.S.

Japan and other countries would only adopt the liberal immigration policies you advocate if they were interested in national suicide.

The "chain migration thing" is not a red-herring at all. It is totally for real. It is an exponential affect. My own family is an example. I sponsored my wife who then spondered her parents. My wifes sisters met and married Americans they met as a result of them knowing me. My parents in law live in Mexico but they sold their green cards to illegal aliens who work illegally in Mexico. Because the illegals are working under my inlaws SSN numbers my inlaws will later be able to fraudulently collect Social Security and Medicare benefits (this is their plan).

That's the way our system "works" and it is national suicide. What am I to do, rat on my own mother-in-law?

Japan
I agree, Liberius, Japan is a very racist state and they are going to pay a terrible price for it too. Their population is imploding, in the first decades of the 22nd century, they'll have a population of 26 million--100 million less than now. Their economy will be a vast waste land--if they aren't part of China by then.

They treat non-Yamoto (the Ryukyu Islanders and the Ainu) people in their own country like the US used to treat blacks. Even some Yamoto people are treated like hell (the Burakumin). Immigration would greatly help Japan, but at this point they are too racist to seen the wisdom in this--just as many Americans are moving off into the nativist wastelands as well.

I never knew that American was a race or an ethnic group. Didn't FDR say when the 442nd was created that being an American was not based on any race, color or nationality? Was FDR wrong? (of course at the time he failed to mention many of these Americans were being held aginst their will in "internment" camps, but that is a subject for another time).


Yes, I'm Jewish
Liberius--May I ask where you went to law school?

Beyond
I can only speak on Federal law. I can't say what state services may be offered for all 50 states.

And Sammy the chain migration thing is a red hering. US citizens can bring in only: spouse, minor child, parents (if sponsoring child is over 21--if I recall)and siblings. For a pernament resident it is spouse and minor child only. Some fools on TH as well as some others in the media--even some in Congress--have said that uncles, aunts, grandparents, cousins, etc can be sponsored this is 100% false.

The current average waiting time for siblings to be granted an interview is around 11 years (and it gets longer every year).

While I am not supporter of Ted Kennedy, getting rid of a racist law is one of the few bright points during his tenure in the Senate.

There are a good number of native born who marry non-US citizens. Like Mitch McConnell for example or Jeb Bush. And many more who bring in foreign children. You can't cut the numbers without harming US citizens, unless you want to eliminate the all employment-based immigration--you know college professors, doctors, scientists--things that make your life better.




Help me out
Once again, I'm confused......If an illegal alien is an undocumented worker, are drug dealers unregistered pharmasists. Maybe Dennis Kuchinich from the planet aucor has the answer?

well see
you all about monday. i am headed to the deer camp to, you guessed it, carry a gun and shoot deer!

Free Ramos and Compean
If we can’t have HOME SECURITY first, the rest just don’t matter!
HUNTER /Tancredo 2008!
http://www.gohunter08.com
http://www.ontheissues.org/Duncan_Hunter.htm
Hunter’s best quote: Move away from the Ted Kennedy Wing of the Republican Party. (Jun 2007)

Maybe so
The truth may be ugly, but the pre-1965 immigration law was much uglier since it was based on pure racism. I don't think that is something to be proud of or something you'd want to bring back--unless you'd like to bring back some other pre-civil rights era laws too--you know overturning Loving v. Virginia, repeal of the Civil Rights Act, overturn Brown v. Board...things along those lines.

The pre-1965 law was no less racist than the laws that were nullified in Brown v. Board or Loving v. Virginia.


monticup
Are you Jewish?

Sorry Agaki
That might be the case in whatever state you are sitting in. But in CO They are not just taking few benes, and "emergency" care. Our Tabor law was just put on hold for the next 3-5 years because "somehow" our state budget was short. Ironically when pressed for answers the legislature had none as to where this money was going. It was implied that the average citizen was to blame for the overspending--we improved too many roads etc. And barely anyone every got a clear answer before they went to the pols to vote on the issue. Most people thought "If there's a shortfall then we will have to go into debt to fix it, and I don't want the state in debt." So--Tabor was put on hold.

About halfway through the campagning for this issue, the legislature put out a study on the number of illegals residing in the state and an estimate for how much it had, in the previous 3 years, and would cost the state in programs (mostly gained through a child in the public schools, and S.S. card theft), emergency medicine, law enforcement, jail expansions, and a slew of other costs. The repeal of Tabor would allow the state to keep millions in taxes, that would otherwise be returned. Ironically the dollar price tag the study assigned to illegals, in this state, was only 2 million over what the legislature wanted from the Tabor repeal in order to avoid a budget shortfall.

So no, they are not technically allowed to get social benes, but they can get around that, identity theft is rampant. And no the socio-economic costs are not low either. Most states have studies and know just how much money is being used for illegal support, and they are some pretty big numbers. The insanity is that our leaders are ignoring it and strapping the middle class with the bills.

Your wife
Liberius--was your wife a picture bride? You sound like the type.

Legals
Sammy:

Most legal immigrants are also barred from many social services and in general are no more entitled to any additional ones that legal ones are (at least on the federal level). There was no exception when the GOP congress passed and Clinton signed the Immigrant Responsibilty Act of 1996 which barred most federal social services to anyone except a US citizen. This was amended a few years later to allow some access to some services if a legal immigrant but non-US citizen had worked for 40 quarters in the US.

It also changed the sponsorship rules which was before just a moral obligation with no legal powers to force the sponsor to pay if the immigrant her sponsored became a public charge (the immigrant during the interview process has to show he or she has the means to provide for themselves or a sponsor as to make it unlikely they will become a public charge), after 1996, the government could go after the sponsor until the end of time--even if the immigrant became a public charge 50 years later--or until the immigrant became a US citizen and at that point he has every right to access the social services as any other citizen.




The Law of Increasing Numbers
Akagi states, "Because the vast majority of US immigration is immediate family members of a US citizen, you going to tell a US citizen he can't bring in his wife or child?"

What you fail to consider in this statement is that probably in the overwhelming majority of these cases this US citizen is a naturalized US citizen. So if we set a policy permitting far fewer legal immigrants, and therefore fewer naturalized citizens, there will be far fewer numbers of spouses and children that will "need" to immigrate as well.

This is how our legal immigration system (pioneered by none other than Teddy Kennedy) has spiraled into a geometic progression now giving us a totally out of control number of over 1 million a year. Conversely, by cutting the number of legal immigrants permitted we can also drastically reduce the number (through chain migration) of legal immigrants "needed" to a much more rational level.

Illegals
In the US illegal entry into the US is considered a civil crime--like speeding or jaywalking. The person faces nothing outside of being removed from the US. If though, the person has been ordered removed or deported and then returns to the US, then that is a felony and the person can be sentenced to prison, but in most cases he is simply deported.

Other countries treat illegal entry much more seriously and the person would face prison. Overstaying a visa in these countries isn't considered unlawful entry and in these cases the person is simply deported with a possible fine attached.

Hal Donahue
I'm a lawyer and I've practiced a small bit of immigration law (my wife is an immigrant as well). It is not a "crime" to enter the counry illegally the first time. It is illegal because it is considered a "civil offense". But once someone is deported it is a "felony" if they enter illegally again.

Academic
Well, if you want to come up with a better term--please put it forward. Because pretty silly to call a country a member of the third world, when the second hasn't existed for 15 years or so.

In the 1970s when Dependency Theory became the major paradigm for development the term "the South" was often used as much of the developing was in the southern hemisphere, but today the general accepted term in political science and economics is "the developing world" or to be more precise a country would be called a less developed country (LEC) or a Less Economically Developed Country (LEDC). But in any event, Mexico is not part of that bloc.

And NIC is still a very valid term. It was first used to describe the new robust economies of East Asia (Taiwan, Hong Kong, Singapore, the ROK)--the so called four tigers, but today the term is applied to Mexico, Brazil, China, Thailand, Malaysia, South Africa, Turkey, the Philippines, and India.

There is debate over the original NICs--some claim they are now developed countries and you can put me into the camp, while others still claim they are still NICs.


HaL
what does that matter? if we are not going to enforce laws, then i say what the hel*. should we just go back to the wildwest days where things were settled with a gun, you want that? I don't! a law is a law, you break it, it's broke!

Free Ramos and Compean
If we can’t have HOME SECURITY first, the rest just don’t matter!
HUNTER /Tancredo 2008!
http://www.gohunter08.com
http://www.ontheissues.org/Duncan_Hunter.htm
Hunter’s best quote: Move away from the Ted Kennedy Wing of the Republican Party. (Jun 2007)

Question
I have been unable to get an answer to this. What kind of illegal is illegal immigrant. Is it a felony as in murder or some robbery or is it a minor summary offense such as jay walking? Or is it even less criminal than a summary offense? does anyone know?

Stevel, You're Right and You're Wrong
You're right in that too many people get all wrapped up in the legal/illegal status of the immigration debate. There are certainly some elements that make a legal immigrant preferable to an illegal immigrant, but an immigrant's status alone does nothing to determine whether or not they are a net contrbutor to our society. In fact it could perhaps be argued that if Juan is illegal he costs us a lot less than if he is legal -- Same person just that if legal he has easier access to our treasury, entitlements etc.

Where we differ is that you WANT to make the current illegals legal (amnesty) and solve illegal immigration by simply allowing virtually any and every one the opporutnity to comer here legally. In other words an immigration policy determined by the needs of the world's poor and disenfranchised rather than the needs of America's citizenry. I want to solve illegal immigration by stopping it dead through enforcement and greatly reducing legal immigration to a small manageable skills based model.

Visas
svpallava:

There are also a great number of countries that the US doesn't require a visa at all and you can stay legally in the US for 60 days.

A country that is given the visa wavier must have a low number of visa overstays and have a low number of visa rejections. The last part particularily has angered Poland, since it can become a vicious cycle--the State Department denies a lot of visas, and thus you can't get the visa wavier and lots of these people making the decision to grant or not to grant are not too bright. In one case in China, a visa was denied to a person, because the State official had never heard of the company she worked for--it just so happened to be one of the largest companies in China. Like saying you've never heard of Ford.


One more thing
orlandocajun:

Taiwanese immigrants generally are engaged in two professions in the US--academics (college professors, Taiwan has the largest number of Ph.Ds per capita in the world) and business owners. Funny you'll accept the English and Australians--could it be you object to non-white immigrants? Not all non-white countries are part of the "third world(sic)." And from my dealings with New Zealanders and Australians in Taiwan, I'd rather have someone from Taiwan than them--although, I will admit though my sample size was very small. Oh, the English and Scots were hardly better


Liberius
Seriously, you are a mental case. Are you happy with your life or do you feel you deserve better? Don't blame your insufficiencies on the Jews. Do you feel like a eunuch? If you are a failure, own up to it and try to improve. Get help.

Academia
Akagai--you must be an academician. Your jargon is so dated and politically correct. Your euphemisms are the kind I heard in graduate school back in the 1970's.

For Anne @ 09:12
Unfortunately, there are a few visa loopholes that bypass the State Department entirely, being purview of USCIS:
(1) TN-1 (issued to Canadian citizens ONLY, 1 year max validity; generally issued and sometimes "renewed" at POE or PFI, but issuable/renewable by mail)
(2) Dependent (of temp work visa) issued to Canadian citizens (includes over 90% of TD's)
(3) L1/L2 visas specifically issued to Canadians (not applicable for other nationalities)

Unfortunately, there are many Muslims who have naturalised to Canada (some with the idea of using as "steppingstone to US") in the first place.

Beware of the Muslims
Muslims have claimed large areas of our country. Detroit (including Dearborn and Hamtramck) is essentially an Arab enclave where non-Muslims are not safe. Red House, VA is a small town that has been taken over by Muslims (complete with training camps) and is a no-go place for local law enforcement. Muslims are trying to take over a small farming community in Walkersville, MD. It goes on and on.

Muslims are often illegal aliens as well. We need to get rid of all illegal aliens and make it clear that we will not allow sharia law. We need to outlaw the wearing of disguises in public. The covering of faces in public should be considered a criminal act.

Because
orlandocajun:

Because the vast majority of US immigration is immediate family members of a US citizen, you going to tell a US citizen he can't bring in his wife or child? And Third World is an archaic term. The "Second World" vanished in about 1991 or so. In any event, Mexico wouldn't be considered the third world even using that term but a NIC (Newly Industralized County) like Taiwan or the ROK in the 1970s. The term used today is "the underdeveloped world" or "developing world," but Mexico (and Brazil and China among others) aren't considered part of that bloc.


Immigration
A few things Gallagher and others have said.

If you look at actual objective studies peer reviewed and published in academic journals there is no evidence that immigration legal or illegal impacts MOST American jobs at all. There is an impact on the low skilled and semi skilled trades which has the greatest impact on minorities--legal Hispanics and blacks.

As for social services, most of these are barred for illegal aliens and even the ones that are open to them, illegals take advantage of these at lower levels that do US citizens. The two primary social services are schools which the Supreme Court ruled in Plyler v. Doe (1982) and "emergency" medical care. Now, since you aren't going to deport millions of illegals, would you rather them in school or roaming the streets? Would you rather them treated for an illness that could be spread to everyone or not treated?

And now for Anne:

While I am not in favor of illegal immigration, it is not so simple. For most of the illegals in the US, legal immigration is impossible, so telling them to get in line like everyone else is simplistic, but most of your posts are, so why should I be suprised.

As for English, most of the illegals are poor peasants who aren't even fully literate in Spanish. Their children born here are at least semi-fluent in English and their children fully fluent in English which has been the case with every wave of immigrants. There were also many Germans in the US in the 19th century--whole towns where basically only German was spoken, German newspapers, in the Civil War, entire regiments of Germans who were given battlefield commands in German. And Anne, if I dropped you into rural Tainan county and you had to cut sugarcane 8 hours a day, how fast do you think you'd learn Taiwanese or Chinese. I've known lao wai who just "taught" English and they never learned anything beyond "I want a beer."

Now, let the attacks begin.


Madness indeed.

What people will say and do... when emotions take over.

Absolutely unbelievable.

First - build the fence! Period. And not just 700 miles... but ALL OF IT, from the Pacific to the Gulf. Doubled up, with a patrol road in between.

Only then - will the dynamics allow for any kind of reasonable discourse and sensible resolutions.

Because we simply cannot keep choosing which laws to obey... or not.

Not if we want to remain as a nation of laws.

Stop all immigration...
Can someone explain to me why we need anymore third-world (or any) immigrants in this country? Tancredo suggest a moritorium on all immigration and everybody laughed at him.

I could go along with Australians and English, but why must we continue to import other peoples problems here?

Libs spout:
The same old tired lib, change the subject spin! The article was about the Jewish people in question making the comparison between illegals, and all the CRAP and torture that the Jewish people have went through! There is NO comparison PERIOD! I have to say if I were of Jewish descent I would be putting a foot up their as* quicker than rosie wolfs it down at an all you can eat buffet!
Now having said that, I would like to point out two facts that not even a lib can deny.
1st-our country can not afford all that you pro amnesty people want to hand out!
2nd- is this-
http://www.corruptionchronicles.com/2007/09/_islamic_terror ists_arrested_a.html
Now call we what you will, fear monger, protectionist, whatever you like, you stick your head in the sand and keep ignoring the facts but, I will do what is right and to which I took an oath too long ago, to protect and defend my country and the constitution! Unlike the idiots in congress and peso george

Free Ramos and Compean
If we can’t have HOME SECURITY first, the rest just don’t matter!
HUNTER /Tancredo 2008!
http://www.gohunter08.com
http://www.ontheissues.org/Duncan_Hunter.htm
Hunter’s best quote: Move away from the Ted Kennedy Wing of the Republican Party. (Jun 2007)

Why not increase LEGAL immigration?
A relatively painless way to cut down on illegal immigration, that both liberals and agribusiness would support, would be to increase LEGAL immigration.

Why don't we increase the quotas of immigrants who are allowed to come to America legally, and streamline and automate the application process so that immigrants' applications for entry to America and for citizenship can be processed more rapidly?

The more immigrants who can come here legally, the fewer will try to sneak in illegally.

If all you're opposed to is ILLEGAL aliens violating America's laws, then why not have more LEGAL immigrants?

Remember: Sometimes the law itself needs cha