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Friday, September 22, 2006
Mike Gallagher :: Townhall.com Columnist
The U.N. sucker-punch
by Mike Gallagher
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Hugo Chavez’ comments felt like a punch in the gut.

I’m not sure if I would have reacted the same way if I hadn’t had the extraordinary opportunity to spend nearly two hours in a private meeting with President Bush last week. But listening to the Venezuelan president skewer our commander-in-chief from the podium of the United Nations really sickened me.

I’m not really sure what Chavez is trying to accomplish. It seems like he’s pretty cocky, what with all that oil his country controls, and he seems to take some kind of sick delight in calling President Bush things like “the devil” and “a liar.”

Perhaps even more disgusting than his cartoon character-type name calling was to hear the laughter and the smattering of applause he received from the floor of the U.N. I’m hoping it was just nervous laughter, the type that usually results from an awkward moment when someone says something so outrageously stupid that one doesn’t know what else to do but laugh.

After Chavez’s day of outrage at the United Nations, I briefly saw on the news that he was touring Harlem in New York City. The video I watched showed him getting thunderous ovations from people and enthusiastically waving to the adoring crowds. Do you think they were cheering him because he had just called our President a sulphur-reeking devil? Are Bush critics really that ugly?

Once more, Americans are treated to the ugly spectacle of the United Nations hosting some crackpot, U.S.-hating leader. One day, it’s the lunatic president of Iran; the next, it’s the vermin from Venezuela. Adding insult to injury, we apparently provided U.S. Secret Service protection to these creeps. It makes me think that if the U.N. managed to find Osama Bin Laden, they’d invite him to be the keynote speaker and throw him a ticker tape parade down Fifth Avenue.

In the middle of his wild-eyed rant about “El Diablo” and the president’s devil horns and pitchfork, Chavez did manage to utter one idea that I fully agree with. He suggested that the United Nations should be moved to his country. Now that’s a concept we can all support. Americans would stand up and cheer to the mountaintops if we finally rid ourselves of this corrupt, bloated, creaky, ineffective organization once and for all.

One of the callers to my radio show today could barely get the words out, he was so livid. “How dare Hugo Chavez come into OUR country, stay in OUR hotels, use OUR Secret Service, eat at OUR restaurants, and get away with trying to smear President Bush?” he asked. The answer is simple. Because the United Nations lets him.

In this case, fighting back is pretty easy to do. We’re given lots of choices as to where we can go to fill up our vehicles with gas. It’s no big secret that CITGO is owned by Venezuela and that the money we spend at their pumps goes directly into that country. Here’s hoping that every single CITGO gas station goes out of business real soon due to a complete lack of customers.

Yes, I took Hugo Chavez’ comments personally. Meeting President Bush last Friday in the Oval Office was certainly this radio host’s ultimate “once-in-a-lifetime” experience. I was honored to be in a small group of nationally syndicated hosts who were invited to an off-the-record meeting with President Bush. Thankfully, the four other hosts are friends and at the top of our field: Sean Hannity, Neal Boortz, Michael Medved and Laura Ingraham. We were given this extraordinary access in order to gain a valuable insight into what Mr. Bush believes, whether it’s about the war or domestic issues.

If I had a wish that could be granted by some genie in a bottle, it would be that every single Bush critic should have such an opportunity to spend time with the man, like we did. I’d like to believe that even the nastiest, most vile of Bush-haters would walk away from the experience with an understanding that this is truly a good and decent human being.

To the bashers who say that President Bush is out of touch and not really all that bright: you are dead wrong. During that hour and forty-five minutes, we gained an amazing insight into how strongly he loves this country and how truly committed he is to doing what he believes is right for every single American. I was struck by how often he came back to the honor he holds in his heart for the office he holds; how the presidency is all about the never-ending decision-making process; and how dramatically different he is in a relaxed and informal setting than he is in front of the cameras. Not only is he fully engaged and has an amazing command of the many issues he faces, but he deals with them in a manner that should make every American proud. I left this amazing meeting with the complete confidence that President Bush spends practically every waking hour committed to keeping the citizens of the United States safe.

I don’t know why Hugo Chavez says the terrible things he says about our President. But after my Oval Office meeting, I felt like Chavez was not only attacking President Bush, he was attacking me.

Every single American should feel the same way.

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About The Author

Mike Gallagher is a nationally syndicated radio host, Fox News Channel contributor and guest host and author of Surrounded by Idiots: Fighting Liberal Lunacy in America.

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Chavez just following in the footsteps
Why would Chavez come to the United Nations and say what he did about President Bush if he felt he didn't have the backing of the Democrats. Chavez, Ahmadinejad, and the terrorists listens closely to what the Democrats have been saying about President Bush. The language and terminology fits the Democrats like a suit. Chavez is only repeating what the Democrats have been saying about President Bush since 9/11. Chavez felt at home here using the same rhetoric the Democrats use to demoralize the Americans about the war in Iraq. Devil is the only word I haven't heard the Democrats use when referring to President Bush. Other then that, any Democrat could have been there speaking in Chavez's place and we wouldn't have known the difference. What was it the Democrats said about their rhetoric not being harmful to our troops in Iraq or Afghanistan. Their two graduates Ahmadinejad and Chavez from the Democrats school of rhetoric sure gave a impressive commencement speech at the United Nations insulting President Bush on American soil.

Things To Think About
After reading the article and the comments, it seems apparent that the argument coming from the right is largely founded on ignorance. Yes, people are going to take offense to someone publically insulting Bush. But do you have any idea WHY Chavez said those things?? Someone stated that they didn't...so, at least you can admit it. And before I get into it, let it be known that I am not a Chavez supporter...merely a seeminly more informed American. If you take a moment to examine the historical relations between Venezuela and the US ( go a google search or something), Chavez's position will become more clear. In general terms, our country has been exploiting South America since 1492, when Colombus arrived here, and there. We have exploited their labor force (think avg. wage down there), and the precious natural resources they possess (think copper and silver). Furthermore, policies that the US tries very hard to enact and keep intact (think NAFTA) work to further exploit underdeveloped countries, and keep them from developing a steady and growing economy (think IMF and the World Bank). Yes, they have a lot of oil that we are starting to pay the price for. But did you think for a second just how much of that oil the avg. Venezuelan can afford? The avg. Venezuelan probably can't afford a car, let alone gas to power it. Next, I implore you to ponder the root sources for why exactly it is we have SO MANY PRIVILEGES in this country that billions of people will not even consider possible to them. It's not because we are smarter or somehow more elite. It's because, from the beginning, we were, and still are, willing to do whatever it takes to maintain the level of power we have in the world. The conquistadors of the 15th century plagued, pillaged, and forced slavery on South Americans so that they could fund the industrial revolution. Now you're thinking, ok, what does that have to do with Chavez's speech. Well, it explains why him and his country have taken the stance they have, and verbalized that stance in our country. He hates us because we have exploited his people since before you were born. So before you go calling Chavez some mindless devil, think. Ask questions before you start assuming that he is saying those things just to spite us. There's more to it than that. I am not trying to defend Chavez, merely trying to develop an understanding for his motives, because A LOT of people in this country don't realize how far our country has gone to achieve power.

Ugh.
Dpitch,

So Bush is a devil because Venezuelans have been dissed since the 15th century by Spaniards.

You are a moron.

dpitch
Well said.

I would only add the Ego Factor. Chavez seems to genuinely enjoy knocking the US, anything to get on the six o'clock news.


The Things I have learned
dpitch writes:AM
"Things To Think About"
"In general terms, our country has been exploiting South America since 1492.."

I have to admit you have me pondering....

I am pondering exactly how it is 'our country' began our famously outrageous exploits of exploitation a couple of hundred years before we existed.

dpitch writes:AM
"Next, I implore you to ponder the root sources for why exactly it is we have SO MANY PRIVILEGES in this country that billions of people will not even consider possible to them. It's not because we are smarter or somehow more elite."

Hmmm. I'm pondering...you know, I always thought it was because the average height of American males is 5 feet 9 inches.

But now that I have pondered, I think it may have something to do with the governmental system our founding fathers laid out for us, among other things. That and not being a totalitarian regime.

I know that we have "We have exploited their labor force" by creating jobs and "The avg. Venezuelan probably can't afford a car, let alone gas to power it" all because of little ole us. Probably it's because we forgot to pay our Welfare for the Venezuelan's Tax on time.

And to think, all this pondering was dragged out of me by "merely a seeminly more informed American" who so graciously informed us that "it seems apparent that the argument coming from the right is largely founded on ignorance."

THANK you, dpitch, THANK you!

Dictators
If I remember my history right, every country on the North and South American Continents were exploited by European powers from long before Columbus landed. The difference is that The United States put in a democratically elected government based on rights and freedoms, while most of the "banana republics" chose to install dictators.

Sucker Punch?
My definition of a "sucker punch" is when someone strikes with surprise against another party who had no reason to expect it coming. On that basis, this was simply bloviating from a "Thug" (to quote Nancy Pelosi)from whom nothing else is expected. Also, generally a sucker punch hurts the one hit. I don't think W was hurt at all - probably helped. Some of the Demos and Harlem cheerleaders are of course even more disgusting than Chevez, since they should know better and should have felt the same reaction as Mike G.

Moloch?

Devil worship, naked thru the woods?

Must be Joe Bush, since George Bush is a Methodist.

Not all Dems the same
Char Rangel cong went Ballistic on FoxNews.
And what floored me: Pelosi called chavez a thug. Coming to America and calling their President names.

Was kind of nice.

president
The president should be judged by what he does and doesn't do, not by what he says to private groups awed by being in the White House and given the privilege of a a private audience with the President. This is an old politic trick to disarm those who might be critical of the President's policies. I can't believe Hannity and Gallagher and company falling for this trick. Bush's policies on border control are open to criticism and his statements about addiction to oil and Islam being a religion of peace and his support of a Palestian state and his support for re-electing RINOs should be subject to criticism. Gallagher and Hannity need to stay away from the aura of Presidential power. I can see Gallagher with big eyes, taking in every word from this brave,heroic American who hasn't vetoed a single bill that has infringed on the freedoms of Americans such as McCain-Feingold.

Threats
You know, Chugo Hhavez said that the US Empire would soon come to an end. Mahmoud said that the world would soon experience a world with out the United States.
Whether you like President Bush or not, those men made THREATS to this country and that alone should unite us. I assure all of you, that should this country ever fall and is taken over by the likes of Mahmoud and his girlfriend Hugo, you will not enjoy the life you live now. Stop the nonsense and get behind America. Bush is our Elected President and deserves more respect than what he has been given. If you insult the leader, you insult those he leads…

Brothers and Sisters
Oh, by the way, I'm embarrassed by my Black Brothers and Sisters who so warmly welcomed such a man as Chavez into their neighborhood. :-(
My black brothers and sisters have been brain washed by those "So Called Black Leaders". To think the man went to a Baptist Church to call our President the Devil. Allowing that type of behavior was not very Christ like behavior from the Pastor of that church. :-(

UN
Maybe, just maybe its time we both got the USA out of the UN, and the leftist loving UN outa the USA. Of course the Ultra-Fems (Liberals) would never ever go along with this. They so hate Bush that they would openly support terrorist, if they thought at all that a violent terrorist attacked on the USA again, would bring down Bush.


It's our own fault...
The shenanigans being played out at the UN and in Harlem the last few days are the direct results of the Democrats and Bush haters who have ENABLED this kind of talk. These little monkey dictators feel they have a support base here in this country and are echoing what the democrats do on a daily basis. Chavez goes to Harlem and gives out cheap oil..Amajiddiy (sp? and who cares)calls George names that are reserved for war criminals and we allow this becasue our own congress does the exact same thing. Calling George an idiot, a drunk and a crazy man are all culled from speeches given by our own Democrat Party. Start by voting THOSE traitors out of office...the elections are around the corner...VOTE THEM ALL OUT...then watch every terrorist scamper back to their caves....I will not be surprise if one of them drops bin Laden in our laps as a peace offering.
Get smart people!!...the only party worried about national security is a large majority of Republicans. Yell loudly this election day.

Well Now, do not be fooled!
....they have no place to go with this....they are tap dancing in the corner....and are worried because, as I said in a post above...they are hearing their own words shouted back at them and so they must defend this pres....their jobs depend on it...watch as they squirm the next few days...this is going to be fun...watching them on the same side as George....won't last long though. TRAITORS!!!
VOTE REPUBLICAN..ALWAYS!

HEY HUGO TAKE THIS GAS PUMP HOSE AND...
My wife and I thought we'd cut our Citco credit cards up, and send them in with a note addressed to "Hugie" saying we are sorry to close our account but that "Diablo" made us do it.

Problem: Several thousand Americans are attached at the hip with these franchised Citco Stations. Means we can't slap "Hugie's" round moronic face without collateral damage to our people.

What to do, what to do? H-m-m-m ... I know!! I know!!

Let's ask Danny and Cindy! They'll know how to screw ... I mean, do, what's right ... I mean, left, for America!

Dpitch, please
...you ARE a jerk!....thank you.

Thanks Mike
Keep up the good work.

The smell of sulfur
Didn't Mahmoud speak before Chavez? That, no doubt, was the lingering sulfurous odor. Evil certainly has a stench, but it also has enablers who hold their noses and continue doing business with it. Think certain European countries dealing with Sadaam.


Good News Bad News to Mike
Well done column this morning, but you're done in Florence, SC Talk Radio market.

From now on, it's Lauraville around these parts.

We'll miss you.

Dpitch & Tanabear ...
Two morons joined at the hip with a CITGO gas nozzle ...

CUCKARACHA CHAVEZ
Chavez should not alarm us so much. Yes, he's a punk South American Dictator. All he's doing is taking attention from his country, which he has harmed greatly. He doesn't expect us to care for him. All he is doing is playing to his "home" crowd.

America needs to wake up in this age of clashing cultures. Chavez is just another "Culture Vulture". He gets his power from attacking the greatest power on earth with impunity. To his ignorant population, he is David standing up to Goliath. That's all this bvutt-head is doing.

Does he have lethal plans for murdering many Americans? Count on it! Should he be assasinated, immediately, if not sooner?

Count on that, too.

Hopefully, we have people working on that right now.

and a big American hug goes to...
Lokietek. You are the kind of emigrant that this great nation was built upon. We are fortunate, indeed, to have people like you who know the difference and will speak from their own experience.....good luck to you and your children. They will succeed.

Boycotting Citgo is silly
...because the people it would hurt most are Americans who own the gas stations here. Chavez will always be able to find a market for his country's oil.

To put your neighbor out of business to "punish" Chavez is about as childish as kicking someone's bicycle because he made you angry.

Nothing new here
On any count.
As Plinio Apuleyo Mendoza relates in "Guide To The Perfect Latin American Idiot", the typical South American leader today, no matter how he arrives in office, is a leftist dictator supported by the leftist intelligentsia of the region (the "idiot[s]" of the title). As he says, "Most people read from left to right- Latin American intellectuals read only from left to left", i.e., only Marxist theory is either worth study or application. And when it fails (as is happening in Venezuela as we speak), the blame is always placed on the "gringos"- i.e., the United States, for continuing to persist in being stupidly non-Stalinist. In this context, the fact that Democrats are wildly popular in intellectual circles both here and south of the Rio Grande should give any reasonable person pause.
The U.S. exploiting South America? Google "Monroe Doctrine". Then compare the history of Latin America since 1823 to that of Africa over the same period. If not for the existence of the United States and its willingness to go to war to prevent European exploitation of its southern neighbors, Simon Bolivar' would be nothing but a historical footnote- probably filed under "Failed Populists Executed By Colonial Authorities". I also find it interesting that we are accused of "exploiting" countries which have been given massive amounts of AID money over the last half-century, often with no oversight or accountability whatsoever. Most ended up in the hands of corrupt officials and their cronies, no matter what their ostensible politics. And yet, even as they excoriate us for "exploiting" them, they demand more. If any exploitation exists, it is that the governments of the region- and their apologists up here- have been exploiting the American taxpayer.
Pelosi and Rangel? Too amusing to be truly offensive. After spending six years calling for the President to be tarred, feathered, and ridden out of town on a (nail-studded) rail, when a foreign leader comes along who openly says what they and their cronies giggle about behind closed doors, they backpedal like a bike racer going down Pike's Peak on a one-speed Huffy. If you go to LittleGreenFootballs and chcek out yesterday's links to DailyKos, you'll see that their worshippers are now calling them false gods. As Jim Backus would say, "Delicious!"
As for Chavez' "potentially" supporting terrorists- Google "FARC" (Fuerza Armada Revolucianario' de Columbiana). The gunboys of the Cali' and Medellin' cartels, FARC and their crypto-fascist/Marxist/drug-runner masters have been given arms, money, and even safe havens across the Venezuela/Columbia border by Chavez. His objective seems to be the annexation of Columbia, either directly or by proxy. The nearest we've ever come to "annexing" a country in the region was Nicaragua in 1922-36 and Grenada in 1982. (Panama doesn't count.) Meanwhile at home, Venezuela's crime rate is skyrocketing, their economy is tanking, and unemployment is at record levels even by the exorbitant standards of the region. But Chavez and his cronies are making out like, ahem, bandits. Go to the New York Post online and read "Hugo's Big Lies" by Thor Halvorssen, to get the details of just what a "compassionate, fatherly" ruler this gibbering dingbat really is.
Chavez got into office by acting like Huey P. Long. The comparison is apt. He sees himself as the natural successor to Fidel Castro. I concur. The amazing thing is, there are still people in this country who admire this would-be Trotsky. Or maybe it isn't so amazing, at that.

oh come on
Folks, I think tanabear was making a joke. Admittedly, it wasn’t very funny. Mountain Rose sums up Chavez pretty well when she wrote: Hugo Shove-itz (sic) is an obnoxious, unattractive, insignificant pipsqueak, who makes outrageous statements in order to get attention.

I didn’t feel punched in the gut. I laughed and so did many in attendance; and you know, as a rule, diplomats don’t laugh easily. He was like a nightclub performer who was so bad you couldn’t help but laugh and almost feel sorry for.

I will say that Gallagher is a heck of a guy if he can claim that every single Americans should feel a certain way. Me, I couldn’t go further than to say that every single American should feel sleepy or hungry at one point or another.

disgraceful
To add insult to injury, the democrats have come out defending President Bush from the comments made by "chavez the clown". Who do they think gave all these countries free reign on bashing our president? Let's start off with Pelosi all the way down to Danny Glover. I have never heard of a President being so personnally attacked, as this president has. It's vile, embarassing and disgraceful. The democrats, hollywood and the MSM are responsible for what occurred at the UN, and they should be ashamed!!!! As an american, rest assured I will not be filling up at a citgo. I'd rather pay $4 a gallon. I'm furious and I thing American should be as well.....Wake up!!!!!!

Sandy & Clinton Fan
Bush is not a drunk, incompetent moron. Nor is he the devil or a war criminal. And Clinton is not a drug addicted pedophile, thief, sociopath or murderer. When people make such comments, they are behaving very much like Chavez.

NRAlifer: The Democrats started responding against Chavez almost immediately. After reading so many of your posts, I’ve come to realize that while polar opposites politically you both employ very similar rhetoric.

Re: SKIP/Getting out of U.N.
Good reply, Skip, but I have to disagree about getting out of the U.N. You wrote:

"Well, one thing is for sure. The applause Chavez got at the UN makes it plain that America needs to get out of that cesspool organization. Chavez, or perhaps Castro, should be able to provide a building for it. We could sure use the money we give to that viper pit for other things."

"Keep your friends close...but keep your enemies closer." I'd have to look up the author of that famous quote, but I sure do agree. There are plenty of things we can do with the U.N. besides
just kicking them all out of America. Tax the daylights out of 'em. Make sure they get their share of arrests for all the sleaze they do over here. Unilaterally modify our membership, generally treat them like dirt, and let 'em leave if they don't like it.

America needs to be aggressive against the socialists in the U.N. crowd. Our whole attitude needs to change, starting with a bunch of those traitorous pukes in our own State Department.

America could do well to start an international organization of freedom-loving nations, and not allow any of these socialist countries like Cuba,
Venezuela, Iran, North Korea into it. We could call it the "United Nations of America--(UNA)."

UNA could make some real progress in ventures of helping one another with our mutual problems. Restricting membership to just freedom-loving republics would help dissolve the rancor and grid-lock that is the SOP at the UN.

The UN is comparable to a football game in which
all 22 players on the field, both teams, go into the huddle.

It might make sense to keep your enemies closer, but that doesn't mean it's wise to tell them your secrets.

Clinton Fan and Sandy
Please! Let's not exascerbate the situation. Clinton was certainly some of those things, but exaggeration is not becoming. And Sandy is correct--George is a recovered alcoholic. I'm not so sure Clinton is a recovered philanderer, but we could give him the benefit of the doubt.

On the other hand, the entire "George is a moron" mantra is really old. Since we know that George's SAT's and college grades were actually higher than his last Democratic (J. Kerry) presidential opponent's, perhaps the Bush-haters could let up on that one. It doesn't speak well of their side!

Yikes....
First to Clinton fan...Bill had his time, it's over and you should move on.He is not coming back as President again, you are stuck in the past.

Hugo Chavez is offering cheap heating oil to poor people in America. He wants to exploit the poor of America to gain sympathy and attention while the poor in his own country do without. While everyone has their eyes on him here in our country, the people of his country are continuing to suffer poverty and violations of human rights. When dpitch talks about how (way back, long ago, far, far away in the past)South America was exploited by the Spanish explorers leading to todays problems, perhaps he/she could clarify how that makes it ok for Chavez to now exploit the poor of America for his own gain. Chavez is one of a handful of immature leaders that stamp their feet, hold their breath till they turn blue and point their fingers to blame others for the suffering in their own countries.
Really, was ANYONE surprised that this is how this man behaved when given an opportunity to have the world as a stage? He isn't ready to play with the big kids yet...

I do not mean to offend..
it just get my hackles way up when we continue to bash this president, especially in light of what we went through in the '90's. Did not mean to insult anyones sensibilities...but I don't back down when it comes to the former president...the things he did or did NOT do, are directly related to the events which occured 9/11 and the condition of our world today. THAT IS FACT. Goerge Bush and this administration is stapped with FIXING what went wrong under Bubba's rule....that is also fact. Calling him the names we hear daily, from our own Congress, is why those two little dictators and other around the globe, get away with coming here and making such awful and untrue statement. Would we go to a foreign land and do likewise? Anyone care to answer? AND...upon thinking about it, Clinton is all the things I mentioned and more...we just need to be patient and history will out everything.

Getting out of the UN
I honestly think that using the money the American taxpayer puts into the UN could be better used to fund an "AMERICAN" company to research alternative fuel sources. That way Chavez and the middle east ram the oil right up their a$$!!!!

Be warned
For all the outrage that Chavez caused with his remarks, I still hear people saying that he is a clown. Maybe so, but he is a clown that controls a lot of oil and is trying to consolidate power in Central and South America. He cannot be taken lightly!

Go to my blog and read Fox in the Henhouse for a fuller explanation of the Chavez threat.

Sandy
I tend to disagree with you. History has already begun to re-write itself, to make bubba look like the best president in the history of the United States. Just look what happened with the ABC movie. And, if we continue to allow leftist professors to teach, our kids will never know the truth. And if Harlem is any indication of where our future is headed, I hope I will be six feet under.....

CAN YOU EVEN
Imagine the reaction of all the Muslim wackos in the world if a president of the United States while visiting in their country behaved in the same manner? or just shutter at the sight of heads of Iran citizens that would be rolling down their streets if they had the courage to assemble and applaud our leader as he was running down and ridiculing their president and or country. TANABEAR.. you need to crawl back in the hole you came from, DPITCH, let's for one second assume that all of the facts that you present in your rant were in fact the reason for Chavez to say the things he did while in our country, if that's the case why didn't he mention one single item that you listed? If he was trying to establish any creditability what's so ever, wouldn't you believe that he would have been far more effective to one by one present his facts, and then follow up in his speech that these are the reasons we why we believe that the United States is a evil country? All Chavez accomplished was coming off like a asz jerk that he is. SANDY I like that name "monkey dictators" More so than the outrage that American citizens should all feel about this weeks proceedings in our country, it just reinforces the idea that the United States needs to pull out of the United Nations cut off funding to these two bit countries and start focusing on taking care of our own. The very first step for the US to take would be dismantle the ACLU and put on trial all card carrying members for treason, then round up all illegal aliens especially all those that were in Harlem and supporting the little monkey dictator (thank you Sandy) and either shoot them or kick them out of our country, whatever is the easiest at the time. Is their anyone any longer that still does not believe that border security should be a priority? And by border security that does not mean unarmed guards or cameras and sensors, it means border agents will full police powers and authorization to shoot anyone attempting to flee, and hungry pit bulls infected with aids on patrol. Finally without question, any incumbent or incoming politician that does not see the importance and support the need for strong US policies against illegal immigration along with imposing strict penalties against those who are found to be employing, transporting or housing illegal aliens need to be either voted out of office or made sure that they are never elected in to office in the first place. Sorry to all for this long rant, but I am pis.ed off. Please visit http://www.headsneedtoroll.org and post your views, thoughts and opinions.
Heads Need To Roll

Evil in Stereo
I guess most all open-eyed Americans feel the same way about Chavez and Abadababinadad from Iran. Those two guys seem to have brought out the worst in the world.
What's with the little dictators coming out of the woodwork? Just two more reasons we should be energy self-sufficient.
I like the idea of getting rid of the UN on our soil. Perhaps Chavez is the little, fat dictator that would be the logical choice to host the ineffective UN. I could go for that. However, in the event that ever came to pass, we would not be afforded the same safety that we provide the other world representatives when they come to New York.
Venezuela and Iran . . . evil in stereo.

Vickiz
You are right. CLINTON'S time as president is over and I wish he could retire in peace and continue with his charitable endeavors. But do you think the left won't let CLINTON ride into the sunset? Since I've started blogging on townhall I've noticed that CLINTON'S name is mentioned about as much as Bush's. I think the right wing haters of CLINTON are the ones that should cease bringing his name up.

Thanks, Dogs_of_War
We are like minded...I should, say however, history does have a way of outing the truth. Yes, I know about the movie and all the crap the Clintons a$$ kissers are moving around for their own benefit...but history analyzes from a cold point of view...I think the truth will be known. Mean time, let's pray this president get the support from our own congress...stop all the deriding (I am guilty of it with the former, but he deserve sit..sorry.) I truly believe George was put in the White House by a higher authority...lets hope and pray he succeeds.

clinton fan
Oh my God!!! Help us all, please!!!!!......
You have your head so far up your own A$$ it's really quite hallarious....

Ignorant posts
Tanabear:

1) You should not, I repeat, not get your news from the Inquirer, Globe, Examiner, etc., despite what was said in Men in Black. Getting your information from Mr. Alex Jones is tantamount to those sources. Next you'll be saying Bush is an alien from Mars or something else as ridiculous.

Dpitch:

1) Your comment that our country has been exploiting South America since 1492 is simply amazing. Try reading a history book sometime. Columbus "found" America in 1492. Jamestown, the first English settlement was founded in 1607. That equates to 115 years later. The pilgrims arrived in 1620 on the Mayflower. The Declaration of Independence was signed in 1776. Most thinking people consider that the birthday of America. Even if you round the numbers, that's about 300 years later than your beginnings of our exploitation. Further, try reading about the U.S.'s role in keeping European Powers out of the western hemisphere, allowing people to determine their own destiny. Start with the Monroe Doctrine.

2) Until Mr. Chavez came to power, the United States and Venezuela were allies. I recall in the 1980's while in the Navy doing fleet exercises with the Venezuelan navy and visiting their fabulous country a number of times. Caracas is still one of my all-time favorite places to visit.

3) All that oil that Venezuela has was found by American oil companies using American dollars for research, development, production, etc. As in the middle east, we turned it all over to them.

4) Next time you choose to post a ridiculous comment on here, please read something other than some nutjob posting from daily kos, huffington whatever, or the daily inquirer.

As an aside, you are a poster child as to what is wrong with the American public education system and/or the colleges/universities in our country today.

Clilnton fan, one more thing..
..the reason you see and hear his name mentioned is because he is all over the place...like, well, that stuff that dogs leave on the sidewalks. I wish he could have the class to retire the way a true statesman would do and allow a duelly elected sucessor his time but it is all part of protecting a legacy that does not exist. Yes, reire to his charity works...whatever they may be..and please do not try to enumerate them for us...we already know his fav charity.
OK..enough of that...let's talk of the present and try to support THIS president....he deserves no less.

Chavez's statements
A lot of people are outraged that Chavez is allowed to speak in this country.
What's the matter- are you afraid Americans might agree with him?

Jimmy Carter
The ex-pres, who certified the election for Chavez recieved 10 million for doing it. I don't know which charity (if indeed it was a charity)recieved the money and made him a BIG man on campus, but the info was told on the Michael Savage radio program last night. And he is going around the world bashing Bush, maybe earning a little more oil money?

SCHOOL YARD PUNK
HE IS A STRUTTING, SCOFFING, SCHOOLYARD PUNK VYING FOR CASTRO'S JOB AS THE MOST OUTRAGEOUS THING TO COME OUT OF SOUTH AMERICA IN 50 YEARS.
TAKE HIM OUT OF HIS U.N. PULPIT, PUT A BEANIE-CAP ON HIS HEAD WITH A LITTLE WHIRL-A-GIG ON TOP AND YOU HAVE THE REAL CHAVEZ.
BTW, CITGO IS VENEZUELA OWNED.
WOULDN'T IT BE NICE TO BUY OUR GAS FROM ALASKA OR THE GULF?

Gredgn..huh???
perhaps your TV/Radio/Computer is on the blink...that is not what I am hearing....I guess reading Townhall.com as opposed to the Globe or some other 'news' rag give me the advantage. But, there was that little dog and pony show in Harlem..really not a big issue. Ramp up you reading skills there, sparky. You will catch up in no time.

Gregdn
Thank God we have free speech. Try talking out against castro in cuba, or critizing islam in the middle east. I assure you, you won't wake up in your own bed the next morning.....

Dpitch & Tanabear ...
whoa. ya'll most probably are in need of serious "couples counseling". Alas, it would seem that many "bloggers" spend vast amounts of time in the arean of "1 upsmanship"; hopefully ya'll take the time to "do something" besides talk the talk as in walk the walk...good day.

by the way, Clinton Fan
I DID NOT INSINUATE THAT I WAS A RECOVERING ANYTHING....GET THAT STRAIGHT!

Dipstick, errr, dpitch
Every single one of us here reads from a great many sites every day. We pay attention and we LEARN.

Especially history- something you are clearly ignorant of. You might start with a group called the Conquistadors... funny, but that sounds Spanish, does it not? Sort of like... Hispanic!

Another thing you might wish to study is the Communist influence on Black America, which goes a Great long way towards explaining why farakhan, jackson, rangel et al still raise the race card and keep their people in as much ignorance as possible.

Clinton Fan
Lets not forget Clinton's other great contributions: Three islamic countries in Eastern Europe where before there were none- complete with Al-Quaida bases!

WTF!
I often believe the liberals who post on this site always take a contrary opinion to whatever issue is being discussed just for the sport and for the attention. However, I now truly realize they actually are naïve, completely ignorant, or sleezy beyond belief.

Is defending your own president against a slanderous attack by a third-world dictator on your own soil really something you need to think about?!?

It doesn’t matter if you like President Bush or not – this is an insult to all Americans – even your dumb*ss! If a relative you didn’t like got jumped by some strangers would you just stand there and laugh?!?

You people literally make my f*cking sick!!

RIGHT WING WACKOS
I'm not looking for a response from this post, but I simply must vent. Sandy's post about a higher authority putting George Bush in the white house is ridiculous. This really offends me because I'm a Christian man and using God as a political football infuriates me. Neither party has a monopoly on morality. If we're going to truly act in the name of Christ, then we must weigh each issue individually and not tow a party line. Because life is sacred, abortion is wrong, but so is capital punishment. The war in Afganistan is just because we were attack, but because the war in Iraq was based on reasoning that has since been debunked, no rationale whatsoever can now justify it. Now, am I liberal or conservative? What party should I allign myself with?

But back to Dubya being chosen be a higher authority. The God that I worship can heal the sick, turn water to wine, and raise the dead. If He can do all this, and He chooses an individual to lead a nation, don't you think He can give Bush the intellect to articulate his ideas? Do you suppose that God could have given Bush the popular vote in the 2000 election so no one could question it's validity? With all the prayer Bush does, do you think God led him wrong about the WMD's and Saddam's link to Al'queda? And if God put Bush in office in 2000 and 2004, was he asleep during 1992 and 1996 when BILL CLINTON won the white house? If republicans lose the house and senate in November, will that be God's will? I respect opposing views concerning one's faith, but God personally putting George Bush in the white house in ridiculous.

WTF...good on ya!
ditto...!

Shame on me;-(
Take it easy, Clinton Fan...I don't want to offend anyone by saying a higher authority put George Bush there..is was simply rhetoric...OK? Feel better?....the authority that put him there was THE AMERICAN VOTER...!
Now, this all started because we are trying to debate the effect that two dictators tried to have on us....did not work...I think they united the SENSIBLE and RIGHT THINKING public....Thanks.

Chavez just showed me...
bad breeding.

It takes a lot of nerve to walk into someone's house and insult him in front of his guests. It's just tacky.

Sending the UN to Caracas would be too good. I'm thinking someplace in the midst of civil war, like Bogota or Medellin. Maybe then those 3rd World people who moan about the situations around world but don't do anything about them might start doing something. But they're too comfortable in New York, so nothing gets done.

Donaldd
I wasn't planning to comment on this issue anymore, but then I read your post.

Does your dog or your hamster speak to you in your head?

It might be time for the 2-ply Reynolds wrap - the alien waves are starting to seep through that single layer.

Sandy
Maybe we did get off topic, but when you talk politics you never know where the discussion may go.

NRA loser
If you call me a fugging libstain again, you WILL here from my attorney.

DONALDD
You are my hero.

about the UN..I love this.;-)
I wonder if Chavez gave any thought to who is the biggest contributor to that wreck of an organization. My personal choice for relocation is, say, Kabul. It just tickles me to get the idea of what "political immunity" would mean over there. Really, give this some thought...ANY place around the globe would be a comedown for those little elite diplomats. Think about where they live, while here...what they eat and drive, what kind of entertainment they enjoy. Yes! I think Kabul would work nicely.

Arrogance Defined
"To the bashers who say that President Bush is out of touch and not really all that bright: you are dead wrong. During that hour and forty-five minutes, we gained an amazing insight into how strongly he loves this country and how truly committed he is to doing what he believes is right for every single American. "

The ultimate in arrogance is the above statement. Bush has made more than that hour and forty-five minutes in public appearances in thes last 6 years. Everyone has enough information to make up their own mind as to Bush's character. To tell me that I ain't smart enough to make up my own mind in a Democracy is the final nail in the coffin that buries Democracy. When you are being told you ain't smart enough to make your own opinion based upon all the real evidence then that person doesn't believe or want Democracy. When Bush gives his yearly state-of-the-union address, the media doesn't morph it in any way. It's you and Bush. You decide.

They have footage of Bush walking away from the media and flipping them, and America, off. You think George Washington was ever that immature for a second?

This theme of telling voters they can't make up their own minds is common with right wingers. I typically don't associate William Buckley with the common silliness that is conservative commentary but even Buckly has stooped to telling people don't make up your own mind and defends the President as smarter than we have the ability to judge for ourselves.

Anytime a faction and the government tells you in a Democracy that you ain't smart enough to make up your own d**n mind but rather to strictly trust that faction's judgement, it is the ultimate in arrogance and the ultimate in evil with respect to everything that is a Democracy. If Gallagher were truly interested in painting Bush smarter, he'd just supply the details of that hour, forty-five minutes for us to weight with the upteen hours we've already seen Bush live.

Bush is a moron. And Gallagher is and arrogant evil man.



Alright now
Clinton Fan: give it a rest.

Folks, let’s stop the sniping for a moment. A very real discussion is taking place to asses the threat to our country that Chavez creates. While we can debate the level of that threat, it has been repeated about the significance of oil. We are past the point where we need to belabor the sins of the past. We need to move on to make ourselves energy independent. No matter what your political leanings, we are giving power to our enemies by purchasing their oil. We need go beyond simple conservation and domestic production. We must lead the world technologically as we have done so many times in the past and move beyond the scope of petroleum. You don’t have to agree with Gallagher to realize the importance of what he’s saying.

whoa....Clinton fan..
hold on here...no need to get legal counsel just because you cannot defend yourself or you position...you just made clear the arguement for why you can'tor won't defend yourself...when you lose a point you threaten legal action. My my, that is SOOO interesting.

Thank you MikeR
Let's indeed, get back on track.

BUFFOON? CLOWN? HARDLY.
Anyone with half a brain in his head can clearly see what this oil-rich jackal is doing. He is positioning himself for a seat on the Security Council alongside our 'friends' China and Russia. Let's face it readers, this is what is going to happen. This jackal will be put on the Security Council to veto anything of value or sanity that is presented before this 'august' body of world leaders.
This does not bode well for this great nation of ours. This as well as the sentiments expressed by the pee-wee gallery in the UN is just the beginning of a full court press that will surely come down the road once this jackal is on the Security Council.
Even being in the United Nations is a joke. We should stop this exercise in futility, pack our bags and just get the he#* out of it. But, we won't. That would just make too much sense. And when has the government and the paths they have taken in the past 45 years - with the exception of Ronald Reagan- made any sense at all? Plus, with all the dumb liberal logic I have read here today and countless other days by looney tinfoil helmet moonbats, they might actually have to start confronting reality and we can't have that. Can we?

Sandy
You admonished me for taking your rhetoric literally (God put Bush in the White House), and then you turn around and do the same thing. Didn't you learn anything from me?

Clinton Fan, take your own medicine
You may not want a reply to your post, but you're getting one, and trust me, you're lucky it's not in person.

Sandy prefaced her remark about a Higher Power putting President Bush in power with "I truly believe." You disagree with her opinion? Fine; that's your right. But DON'T YOU FREAKING DARE try to pretend she doesn't have the right to say it, or that it's somehow wrong to do so.

Your little rant contained EIGHT separate thoughts concerning how the Almighty acts, by my count -- and not particularly insightful thoughts at that. And YOU are trying lecture HER about using God as a political football?????? You need either to recite your self-righteous little lecture in the mirror, or you need to settle down and let people have their opinions, even when they're different from yours.

As to your "doesn't-fit-any-mold" conceit, get a clue, baby. You're a typical, liberal Catholic who votes Democrat in nearly every national election. There are millions just like you. You're not the least bit original. You're not toeing the PARTY line, you're toeing the AMERICAN CHURCH line. I'm not the least bit impressed with your alleged independence.

This is not to mention that nearly all your "facts" are wrong. Not only has the President's reasoning on Iraq not been "debunked," new documentation appears every week demonstrating his correctness; documents seized from the Iraqi government are being translated gradually, and revealing clear links to terrorists and clear indications of continuing work on weapons systems.

And I'm sure you didn't catch this, 'cause the press buried it, but after all the recounts were finished, all the absentee ballots counted, and all the court challenges settled, Bush won the popular vote in 2000 by nearly 2 million votes. I have the individual state final totals on my computer somewhere if you'd like to add them up for yourself.

I vote
to send the UN offices to Kabul.....What a great idea.....

dpitch
Venezuala's failed economic system is the result of the U.S. buying their natural resources such as oil from them? So, if I buy a car from my neighbor and that neighor doesn't use any of that money to feed his starving kids, it would be my fault his kids are starving by your logic. Wake up, there are plenty of grown ups in Venezuala. If their leaderships are too stupid and incompetent to figure out what kind of economic and political systems bring prosperity and freedom to people. Or, are simply too despotic to want to and maintain their power by deflecting blame toward the big bad USA, then that's not our fault.

What do you think would happen in all of the shithole third world countries if the U.S. was eliminated from the planet tomorrow? Do you think the leaderships of those countries would suddenly decide to create a true democracy with checks and balances, human rights, and the type of economic freedom that rewards people for success rather than mediocracy? That they would suddenly create a system where people have the opportunity to realize their full human potential and pull others up in the process? Yea, the fact that these third world leaderships are a bunch of repressive chumps to their own people while keeping them stupid enough to fool them into believing it's all the big, bad USA's fault shows just how smart they are. Smart like a fox.

God and George ;-}
I guess you lost me there....have no idea what you are talking 'bout....but it really is hard to learn something from someone who is where you have been: having made the same mistakes and assumptions, I mean. Did I make any sense there? I was a democrat at one time and left the party in dusgust. SO, learn from you..? perhaps...not sure.

relocate UN
Oh, and think of all the realty we also get from booting them out. And let's not forget, before they leave, they have to pay up on all the parking tickets. That should reduce the deficit by half.....

Inkling_Revival...thank you
I like good healthy debate...we are all feeling the effects of the last two days...we just show it in different ways and post our thoughts from where our hearts lie. I am, in no way, a brilliant writer, but I try to put my thoughts down as succinctly as possible and I thank you for coming to my defense...especially where our God is concerned...We should all remember one big thing here...we are, everyone of us, all on the same side...I am again asking all the above posters to support THIS president in this war....the man deserves our help ... we will ALL be the losers if he does not succeed.

liberal dialogue
How is flipping off the media the equivalent of flipping off America?

Replace the UN with a baseball field!
How about a new field for the Jets or the Yankees. Can anyone think of a more appropriate replacement...real AMERICANS joining in an honest to goodness ALL-AMERICAN PASSTIME....
I am giddy with joy at the thought!!!!!

Tara
You're analogy is awesome. Just why is it that the guy who doesn't make it to the top always wants to drag down the guy who does? Could it be that while the guy at the top was studying and working hard, instead of sitting at the nearby bar and trying to scam someone, have something to do with it. In most cases, the ones doing all the complaining, are the ones who didn't study or do the right thing. Those are the guys who were the thugs and bullies. I call it the jealousy factor, if I can't have it, nobody will...."Misery love Company" These people don't want to take responsibility for their failures, and of course it's always easier to blame the US for all their failures. Go figure!!!!

UN Football field....
...credit my youngest son, Mike, with the football field thing....even though we are Miami Dolphin and Tampabay Buccaneer fans down here.
We could even have a contest for naming the thing....I'll start...TWIN TOWERS STADIUM...I'm getting dilerious now...MY MEDS!!!! someone get me my meds.....!!

Sorta like...
Mountain Rose: "But Hugo Shove-itz is an obnoxious, unattractive, insignificant pipsqueek, who makes outrageous statements in order to get attention. Perhaps he feels inferior because he comes from the bottom of the world."

Sort of like a Pat Robertson who won office, only without the religion...and much more offensive.

How about this?
"How about a new field for the Jets or the Yankees. Can anyone think of a more appropriate replacement...real AMERICANS joining in an honest to goodness ALL-AMERICAN PASSTIME....
I am giddy with joy at the thought!!!!!"

You mean we don't need another stock exchange? Wouldn't _that_ make Chavez puke?

Sandy
Hey that's a great idea. A baseball stadium.....Hmmmmm, I,m thinking about having a nice juicy hot dog with a very cold glass of beer...yummy......

Hello!!!
when did communist start crossing themselves....

Guess again!
"Maybe, just maybe its time we both got the USA out of the UN, and the leftist loving UN outa the USA. Of course the Ultra-Fems (Liberals) [I'll ignore that] would never ever go along with this."

This one would. But then I'm not ultra-anything. I'm just middle-of-the-road Joe Middleclass.

Whoa, dpitch
You may just want try that "google [sic] search" yourself. It appears that your knowledge of history is quite laughable.

1. Our country could not have been exploiting South Americans since 1492, since our country did not come into until 1776 (legitimized in the eyes of the world by the Treaty of Paris in 1783).

2. NAFTA only applies to Canada, the United States and Mexico. Furthermore, the intention of the NAFTA agreement was to boost the economies of all three nations, though it hasn't worked out well for Mexico.

3. Your claim that the conquistadors of the 15th Century "plagued, pillaged and forced slavery on South Americans" to "fund the industrial revolution" is laughable. a) These were SPANISH conquistadors, so there Venezuela's beef is with Spain. b) The industrial revolution did not happen until the NINETEENTH

Stike one!!!!!
Dogs_of_war and Jay in Mill....looking forward to a fat juicy dog and a cold one...the stock exchange is another slap at that silly little monkey dicator....but, be patient...he, too, will go the way of Hitler and Missolini....give it time.
Making the sign of the cross was just dumb...does he not know that the muzzies hate Christians?...he just told the Muslim world who he is...and (laughing at this one)where they can find him...wonder if he will wake up one morning with a gun pointed at his head and forced to convert to the religion of peace?? Can't rule his little country without his head attached to its shoulders now...can he!!!

Whoa, dpitch
(Curse my keyboard clutziness...let's try this again.)

You may just want try that "google [sic] search" yourself. It appears that your knowledge of history is quite laughable.

1. Our country could not have been exploiting South Americans since 1492, since our country did not come into until 1776 (legitimized in the eyes of the world by the Treaty of Paris in 1783).

2. NAFTA only applies to Canada, the United States and Mexico. Furthermore, the intention of the NAFTA agreement was to boost the economies of all three nations, though it hasn't worked out well for Mexico.

3. Your claim that the conquistadors of the 15th Century "plagued, pillaged and forced slavery on South Americans" to "fund the industrial revolution" is laughable. a) These were SPANISH conquistadors, so there Venezuela's beef is with Spain. b) The industrial revolution did not happen until the NINETEENTH Century. c) Spain did not initiate the industrial revolution. Why? They were too impoverished at the time!

Again, you might want to try that "google [sic] search" and learn a bit about history. Oh, and please try using paragraphs. Paragraphs are your friend.

Stadium idea
That's okay Sandy, I'm from Miami too. We can fly up there and watch the Dolphins beat up the jets. Hopefully, the fins will start playing with more enthusiasm......I still like the beer and dog idea.....

Imagine this....;-0
Man alive...I have this vision of the opening day at THE TWIN TOWERS STADIUM....chills...that's all. Just chills and both teams dressed in red/white/blue uniforms....does not matter...we would all be on the same team....darn...the chills.

Left wing..right wing..blah, blah, blah.
The priciples this nation was founded on have nothing whatsoever to do with the left wing or the right wing. The United States is based on a republic and the two terms listed above, that we all seem to embrace, are in fact European terms. As is liberal and conservative of which I am neither.

I am an American who believes in what this nation stands for and the principles it was founded on.

Whether you like our current President or not matters not. You hate him because..........or you love him because.............fill in the blanks. Itsounds like some elementary school argument to me.

Is this country perfect? No. Do we make mistakes? Of course.
The fact that millions of people around the world will sacrifice anything including their very lives to gain entrance into the greatest nation on the face of the earth should tell you something.

Do we have disagreements amongst ourselves? Certainly. We are afterall a nation of diverse free thinking people. That's one of the beautiful things about America. We have the freedom to discuss, debate, yes and even argue over ideas and beliefs we may have as individuals.

But I submit to you this. When a leader/leaders or another government outside our borders makes unwarranted, uneducated, ignorant accusations or indulges in making direct/indirect threats to our country and its elected leaders then you as a citizen should rightfully take a stand against the attack.

We can disagree and argue about our ideas later.

If you agree with or support such notable despots like Hugo Chavez, Kim Jung Il, Ahmandinejad, etc., etc., ad nauseum then you are quite simply a traitor to this country.

I suggest you do a little research into what these men actually do in their own countries when the western MSM cameras aren't around.
Do it as if your life depended on it. Your freedoms are at stake.

You know the freedoms we all take for granted?

These people do not care if you are liberal or conservative or right or left. They seek the downfall of this country we call home. They do not care about your freedoms.

We know who our enemies are. At least those outside our borders. But do we see the enemy within?

Let me quote you more eloquent words than I could write from Cicero in a speech to the Roman Senate;

"A nation can survive its fools and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within.
An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and he carries his banners openly against the "city". But the traitor moves among those within the gates freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard within the very halls of government itself.
For the traitor appears no traitor, he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their garments and he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men."

There are many traitors amongst us. Spend a little time educating yourself on what the despots do to their own people. Then imagine them running this country.

Don't be deceived, for the despots and traitors believe in anarchy, their power is based in tyranny and their principles are socialist by definition.

So I say to you again. Either you support this country and will do what you can to defend it or you are quite simply a traitor.

"qui desiderat pacem praeparet bellum"

"sit Deus nobis"


"Semper Fidelis"



Chavez is a great guy
In 1994 I stayed at an amazing resort in Puerta La Cruz, VZ when Hugo Chavez staged his first coup. We had to stay an extra 4 days at this awesome resort at no cost to us because all the planes were grounded. Other than that, the guy should play the piano like Mussolini.

Replace UN
I'd proudly contribute to a fund to replace the UN building with brand new, airliner-proof World Trade Center twin towers, whatever the cost!

Wow, Sandy! Great minds...
I guess I don't post fast enough (I had no idea how fast the activity is here at this time of day. I had just read your 11:35 am post and responded, to find my post 16 comments later.

Attorney threats
Clinton Fan:

"If you call me a fugging libstain again, you will HERE from my attorney."

Note the difference between the verb "Hear" and the word "Here" which can be either a noun, adverb, or adjective. Assuming you mean your attorney will initiate a cause of action against someone, the correct usage should have been "hear" as in "you will hear from my attorney," versus "I will meet you back here in an hour."

Secondly, you are probably going to have to explain how you were slandered or libeled. Calling one a fugging libstain should be interesting as the words don't exist in the english language. Additionally, to prove a cause of action, not only does there have to be a neglent act that lead to a real harm, that act must lead to actual damages. Being called "fugging libstain" on a conservative message board might be humorous but I promise, based on your prior posts, nowhere close to causing actual damages as it didn't tarnish your reputation. Actually, to be found slanderous or libelous, the statement must be inaccurate. Again, doesn't exist here. Funny maybe, but no damages.
Now I won't deny that there are members of my profession who would probably jump at the chance to make some money off of you in your "cause of action." But just remember, those same card-carrying members of the ACLU are the ones who protest and file suit over denying people their free speech rights, such as those exhibited here (note the correct use of the word "here".)

Twodog
Twofunny! I like your style.

Aha...CICERO!!!
Thanks, Solo, I was just reading this very quote in the BOOK OF VIRTUES by William J. Bennett. It is a sad thought, indeed, that we do not ask every young person to read this book...what a learning experience!...so much to understand.
On the same note, my own mother has quoted Cicero many times...a true lady of intelligence and learning....I wish I had her brilliant mind..but alas, I was given less...anyway...I hope everyone on this thread gets and reads this book. It is truly a leaning experience and a tome to pass on to the young ones.

Solo
Solo,

Perfect...

As to the baseball park, where do I send my contributions?

Inkling
We are in agreement of the fact that Sandy had the right to state her opinion concerning God putting Dubya in the white house. I wasn't disputing or knocking her rights, I was challenging her logic. A lot of people say Dubya was involved in 9-11. Because these people (and Sandy) have the right to make these illogical statements doesn't mean they shouldn't be challenged.

You mischaracterizing me as a Catholic is laughable. I attend a Baptist church (not Southern Baptist) in the great state of Arkansas.
If Catholicism is your cup of tea that's fine, but I don't an intermediary in my relationship with Jesus Christ.

Your dilusion that George W. received the popular vote doesn't dignify a response. You can't even get the people on this site to believe this.

Finally, I'm very curious to the way your post started. Why do you wish you could have told me all this in person.

Ballpark
My only caveat to the park is they serve Sabrett's, or maybe Hebrew National franks. MMMMMMM!!!!!! A dog with mustard, a cold beer, and a ballgame in September with playoff implications!!! Nothing better...

...so I've read. Being a Padres fan, we really don't know much about games with playoff implications. However, we are in first place now!!!

HAHAHHA!!
Vermont heretic...ya gotta be fast around here...great stuff...don't you agree?
But I really do think a stadium would be the classical slap in the face of those who wish us harm. Americans screaming and cheering their team on....half time with half naked co-eds,....and ....!!BEER!!!...they hate that about us...they really do!!
..add a little pork to those hot dogs and you have the perfect AMERICAN FOOD FOR THE PERFECT AMERICAN PASSTIME!!!

LOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!!
My sides are killing me, Twodog...

So, Twodog..
Truth be told, this household are all DODGER fans from way back. The hubby never got over them leaving Brooklyn and so, the other night was unreal around here...both our boys are rabid fans of the game. I say...a STADUIM!!....nothing would be finer or more appropriate....and Rudy G. is a fan, also...wonder what he would have to say....
Still getting the chills here...

Two-dog
Lighten up, man. That comment was a joke. I've heard that conservatives don't have a sense of humor, or maybe I'm not funny. Either way, get the chip off your shoulder and the stick out of your butt.


BTW, was my grammer and spelling any better in this post.

As I see things
For all of you that have brothers and sisters, I'm sure you know the rule which says "I can talk bad about them, but you can't and if you do, you'll answer to me." What amazes me is the responses of those in America, and those on this board, who pipe up to support Mr. Chavez and his rant against our President. By the way, he represents America so Mr. Chavez is in effect insulting all of us. If you don't see it that way, you really ought to consider reevaluating your outlook on where you live and what values you hold dear.

And by the way, as annoyed as I am with Mr. Chavez, who didn't come to power through the will of the people anymore than Fidel, Saddam, or any other 3rd world thug, what annoys mr more is the fact the democratic party and their elected members have in effect, sanctioned this reprehensible behavior. Look at their comments in the media over the last 5 years about the elected President. Is there any surprise Mr. Chavez feels he can get away with it?

And I put zero stock in comments made by Pelosi and Rangel condeming his speech. When it takes you nearly 24 hours to do it, it smacks of damage control.

As to the nonsense about Bill Clinton being a non-drug user and George Bush being an addict, how about trying this on.

"I smoked but I didn't inhale." Give me a break! For that lie (call it what it is) you are willing to say he is a non-drug user? You are either incredibly naive or stupid (that word is in the dictionary) to believe that.

And as to your attacks about George Bush followed up by "I'm a Christian," allow me to say this. If in fact you are a Christian as defined by biblical truths,(not defined by today's culture in which 70% of Americans claim to be "Christian"), you need to understand what that means. If you are a christian, you know you have a need for a savior as you are sinful and only the savior, who is perfect, could atone for those sins. Just as you are a sinner, so too is George Bush, Bill Clinton, myself, and all others. But in God's eyes, all that ask for forgiveness are forgiven. If you are a christian, you are called to forgive as well. Your attacks here towards the President cause me to doubt whether you understand that distinction. And I also wonder why you made the distinction you don't attend a Southern Baptist Church?


Smart like a fox....
Tara writes, "Smart like a Fox" So very true, but I know a little something about foxes. Had a bout with four of them trying to eat my ducks.....til one got rabid and came out at noon...exhibited un-foxlike behavior. Stood there like a fat little dictator running his mouth while the shot gun was lowered, taking aim, and pop....there goes the fox. Out for the count. Nature never fails to tell us something about human behavior and consequences of that behavior.

And by the way guys, the ignorant, and poorly educated troll, dpitch was a hit and run.......with its tail between its legs. Haven't you noticed?

Sandy
Sandy,

I thought we could be friends but you mentioned the hated "D" word! All I can say is, "we're ahead of you!" (for the moment)

Clinton fan:

Actually your spelling was still off as "grammer" is not a word; it should be "grammar". And normally I complete questions with a question mark, not a period.

There...was that funny? See, conservatives do have a sense of humor.

He comes from Arkansas
Two dog,go easy on our friend, Clinton Fan...from all I can see, the lad hails from Arkansas...my last understanding was that great state was 49th in its education stats....and that was just prior to the Clintons taking office in the WH. I know, I am mentioning the bent one's name again..sorry...but that is fact. THEY were governor at the time...so understandably schools suffered..I won't say anymore..it really gets them riled up but you know where I am coming from.
Be kind...regarding his spelling and english abilities....

heartfelt thanks
Thank you, Mr. Gallagher, for standing up for President Bush. I cannot express how grieved I feel when people are so bent on denegrating our president and his character. I believe him to be grossly maligned and Chavez's remarks at the U.N. left me flabbergasted and deeply saddened. President Bush is a world leader but he is also a man and a very good one, I solidly believe. Thank you for standing up for him. I just don't think I can take one more bullying comment against him. Even if one doesn't agree with the president's policies, where has the respect for the office gone? Have we all lost all sense of decency and respect? When did slander become so casual?

DODGERS...!
a baseball fan is a baseball fan, I am told....and
the dreaded D's may just pull this out...hope so, if not, you are coming here to live in my home with these three beasts...I will vacation in Rome
and take up Soccer.
And we conservative have a fine sense of humor...it just sometimes gets a bit testy when our national security is at risk and we do not play on the same team...that being the AMERICAN Team.

exasperationplus
You ask where the respect for the office of the President of the United States gone? I'll give you three guesses, but you'll only need one.

How about: "It's boxers, not briefs." Bill Clinton, presidential candidate, 1992, in an interview on Mtv. (Honestly, you are campaigning for the most powerful office in the world and you act like you are running for fraternity president???)

"I smoked but I didn't inhale." Bill Clinton, presidential candidate, 1992.

"I did not have sexual relations with that woman." Bill Clinton, President, 1998

"That depends on what you mean "alone". I was never alone with that woman. There were always secret security nearby." Bill Clinton, President, 1998.

"That depends on what your definition of "is" is." Bill Clinton, President, 1998.

I could go on and on...

Dealing with Non-Normies like Chavez...
...is easy.

Identify them by their childishness and non-logical words and actions (especially their name calling).

Tell them they're non-normies. If they don't know what that means, direct them to non-normie.com.

If they throw a fit (as most non-normies will), laugh at them. Since they hate being laughed at, they will grow even more entertaining--in the sense that a 4 year-old in a towering snit is entertaining.

When you get tired of being entertained by all the histrionics, tell them to grow up, then walk away from them.

As for assorted posters here, if the shoe fits, wear it.

dpitch
I. dpitch is a classic example of a
pseudo-intellectual .
a good description of a pseudo-
intellectual is a person that thinks
he is a genius and everyone else is
an idiot , when in reality he doesn't have sense enough to get in ot of a shower of rain.
believe it or not , even us snipehunters
knows that.

II. Clinton = Darkness
Bush = Daylight .

III. NUF SED .

Sandy
Ah, taking up the beautiful sport? Have fun over there in Rome. As for me, I will be pulling for the Padres up until they fold and then for the Yankees! (If you can't beat them, join them!)

But yes, we baseball fans need to stick together. All I know is The month of October is the best in sports. The playoffs!

The sucker punch felt all over the U.S.
As mentioned in a response to the Towery column on 9-21-06 about disbanding the U.N., my opinion is that it is past time to evict the leeches hanging around taking up valuable space and breathing valuable air. Especially when that air is being sucked up by the likes of H. Chavez.

It takes a clown, a clod, a dolt, or perhaps a jackass, to stand in front of representatives of other nations, and call my President, the President of the United States of America, a devil. Then the sod, in his inimitable way, laughingly referred to the odor of sulfur.

My first reaction to this display of doltishness was that if there were any odor of sulfur, it arose from his (the clown's) upper lip.

Maybe the clown ought to take his act on the road -- the roads and highways and byways of these United States. In no time, the real odor of sulfur, heated to an astonishing degree, would be his lot forever and ever. Perhaps there would be mirrors there, too, where he could watch his own transformation into a very personal and real devil.

It must be obvious that I have taken this insult to my President and my nation as a personal insult.

Clowns, dolts, jackasses, and sods like this one have no business in my country. GOASO. Get out and stay out. That goes for the Iranian donkey braying at the U.N. as well.

On another note
It looks like the Ryder Cup is going to be another uphill climb...

oh boy! Two dog
..now you've done it...you are getting the libs tongues in a knot, again. Those are some fines examples of where the respect has gone. I keep thinking about our greatest American president, Ronald Reagan, who would not even enter the Oval office unless he was wearing a suit jacket. Now, compare that to the "one who droped his pants" for personal pleasure in the Oval while speaking on the phone with heads of state (as per one account, anyway),...you are correct..we could go on and on...but I think those fine examples will suffice.

Move the U.N.
A couple weeks ago I had the idea, and I am sure I'm not the first to suggest this, but why not move the U.N. the border of Lebanon-Israel. Put it in that valley the kept showing us on the news where the blue flags of the U.N. could be seen and across the way were hills where Hezbollah cowards would hide and shoot Katushas arbitrarily into unsuspecting Israeli homes. If America is really as bad as all these nations say, then move. Go to that border or maybe Darfur. Let the diplomats take their immunity and contempt for this great country and move it on up the east side (of Somolia).

The U.N. can no longer be taken seriously and even Charlie Rangel knows it.

Two-dog and Sandy
Thanks for the grammar lessons. Hey, I'm improving. Two-dog, the post I made regarding Clinton's drug use was removed, so I can't tell you with 100% certainty what I said. However, I'm almost positive I said Clinton experimented with drugs, which he admits. When Dubya was asked if he ever did cocaine, he wanted to narrow the window to a time frame which would only encompass the years after he quit. He never answered the question with a resounding "no". And even by his own testimony he was a drunkard. Therefore I don't see any statements that I should retract.


Two-dog, you finally said something that made since regarding your post about Christianity. We are all sinners and we are all saved only through the blood of Jesus Christ. I noticed you pointed to my critisism of Bush as justification to doubt my Christian beliefs, and that's fine. Should I in turn point to your (and Sandy's) critisism of CLINTON (he was a president, you know) to doubt yours? Instances such as admonishing a Christian when speaking ill of Bush but not doing the same when one speaks harshly of CLINTON is the perfect example of why earlier I wrote that neither party has a monopoly on morality. If you take your on post to heart you may realize your own shortcomings as a Christian. BTW, I made the distinction about my Baptist affiliation because a lot of people assume if you're from the South and you're Baptist that you're automatically Southern Baptist. I have nothing against the Southern Baptists.

Sandy, Sandy, Sandy. I really can't argue with you about the quality of education in Arkansas. You know, Mississippi is dead last. As a matter of fact, most southern states are at the bottom of the ladder when it comes to educational achievement. Do you think that this is part of the reason Bush carried southern states so easily? Could the educational level of southerners be the reason they (we) were duped in the last two elections. If we ever do start climbing the educational ladder it could be a dark day for leaders like DUBYA. Did you not stop to think that by attacking me you were revealing the achilles heel of Bush's biggest supporters? Of course you didn't.
Besides Sandy, I know of some people who butchered the English language and engaged in incoherent dialogue and yet grew up to be President.

Selective Amnesia
In April 2002, Chavez was forced from power. Two days later, he was returned to power thanks to international criticism. One of the countries that supported his return to power was the US. This might have been one of Bush's biggest mistakes.

Oh, and before the comments start flying, I am not a Bush-Basher. This is just one of the very few things he did that I don't agree with.

MikeR: re: Your "Alright now" Post
You didn't call anyone any names and you didn't denigrate either President Bush or former President Clinton. You sure you're in the right place? :-) Would that others posting here would follow your example.

Jimmy Carter Did It
The only reason we left him in power was because that traitor Jimmy Carter verified the count before anyone else could and Bush wasn't about to get into an international scene with a former president. Jimmy Carter has done more harm to America than almost any other president in history. I wish he would stop this campaign of re-writing his legacy and accept the fact that he was and is a failure. Reagan and Bush 41 and 43 have been examples of how to treat fellow members in the fraternity of presidents. It is pathetic to keep yourself in the spotlight for no other reason than to bash the sitting president (even to his face at the King funeral earlier this year) and get your jollies by siding with insane socialists and dictators. Thanks for the Misery Index, you fool.

Hugo
1. Where can I find a "No Cigo" bumper sticker.
2. The sooner we develop our own oil fields - ANWAR / Gulf Coast -- the better. These guys are envious of our life and our success and will not be happy until we are destroyed.

Dipstic - you're an idiot
I don't usually comment on much (I'm more of a lurker) but Dipstick's comments just made my blood boil. What a maroon...he must be a product of public schools. So here goes:

And before I get into it, let it be known that I am not a Chavez supporter...merely a seeminly more informed American.

INFORMED BY WHOM? NOAM CHOMSKY? IF YOU ARE MORE 'INFORMED' GOD HELP US ALL!

In general terms, our country has been exploiting South America since 1492, when Colombus arrived here, and there. We have exploited their labor force (think avg. wage down there), and the precious natural resources they possess (think copper and silver).

ARE YOU FREAKING INSANE?? THE CONQUISTADORES WERE SPANISH, LIKE, FROM SPAIN, MORON. NOT TO MENTION THAT AMERICA DIDN'T EXIST UNTIL 1776. READ A HISTORY BOOK.

Furthermore, policies that the US tries very hard to enact and keep intact (think NAFTA)
NAFTA??? THAT WAS CLINTON....

work to further exploit underdeveloped countries, and keep them from developing a steady and growing economy (think IMF and the World Bank). DONTCHA THINK THAT MAYBE TIN-POT DICTATORS AND TOTALITARIANISM HAVE SOMETHING TO DO WITH THE FACT THAT THE SOUTH AMERICANS DON'T HAVE A POT TO P*SS IN OR A WINDOW TO THROW IT OUT OF??

Yes, they have a lot of oil that we are starting to pay the price for. H'YEAH, $75 A BARREL AND I BET NOT A PENNY OF IT GOES TO THE LITTLE GUY YOU'RE MEWLING ABOUT. VENEZUELAN PEASANTS HAVE A VERY HARD LIFE.

But did you think for a second just how much of that oil the avg. Venezuelan can afford? The avg. Venezuelan probably can't afford a car, let alone gas to power it. AND THAT'S OUR FAULT RIGHT? WHAT AN IDIOT YOU ARE, WE DON'T CONTROL THAT COUNTRY, THE DICTATORS DO.

Next, I implore you to ponder the root sources for why exactly it is we have SO MANY PRIVILEGES in this country that billions of people will not even consider possible to them. DID IT EVER OCCUR TO YOU THAT THE REASON WE ARE WHAT WE ARE IS THAT OUR GOVERNMENT IS FREE?? DICTATORS AND KINGS AREN'T GOOD FOR VIBRANT ECONOMIES. IF YOU HAVE TO WORRY THAT THE JACK-BOOTED THUGS ARE GOING TO COME GET YOU IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT, IT'S HARD TO CONCENTRATE ON GROWING AN ECONOMY.
It's not because we are smarter or somehow more elite. YES IT IS. AND WE CAN AND DO THINK FOR OURSELVES.

The conquistadors of the 15th century (FROM SPAIN, MORON, NOT AMERICA) plagued, pillaged, and forced slavery on South Americans so that they could fund the industrial revolution.
SLAVERY WAS FORCED ON SOUTH AMERICANS LONG BEFORE THE CONQUISTADORES, READ A HISTORY OF SOUTH AMERICA BEFORE YOU OPEN YOUR YAP AGAIN HERE, AND TRY TO SOUND MORE INTELLIGENT THE NEXT TIME.

DIMINISHING RESPECT
I have a few other reasons respect for the oval office has diminished.

1. Electing a president to the single most powerful and respected position on earth bases on his last name and not his qualification.

2. Electing a president that doesn't recognize the seriousness of any dire situation he faces. (Staying with school children for 7 minutes after learning the nation was under attack during 9/11, "you're doing a heck of job Brownie" after Katrina, this after not even visiting Louisiana until 4 days after the hurricane, "I'm really not concerned with Bin Laden" after he was responsible for the deaths of almost 3000 Americans on our on soil).

3. A president in the office who makes numerous verbal gaffes (can't express himself) even under the most scripted situations. There are far too many to name in this post, but I'm sure every blogger on townhall knows of at least 15.

If you elect the court jester to the highest office in the land, don't be surprised when respect for that office diminishes.

Twodog
"I smoked but I didn't inhale."

I always liked that one; and you know I actually believe it. It is a very telling character trait. A person who did that could be a person how was basically afraid to take an action but was overcome by peer pressure and/or the desire to be liked and accepted. Apply that to the Clinton administration and ask: Did he show a desire to be liked by the people? Was he easily swayed by polls or could public opinion cause him to take an action he otherwise wouldn’t? Was he afraid to try new things? When I consider him that way, I truly believe he never inhaled.

Colombus? 1492?
"dpitch" lost all credibility when he used the old "evil European/white, anglo-saxon male" approach. First, Colombus didn't actually come ashore on the land mass now known as the U.S. It was really an island in the Carribbean. Second, as happy as Washington, Adams, Madison, Jefferson, Franklin, et al would've been to get their experiment in democracy going in 1492, they had to wait until the late 1700s. My guess is that they were still mere twinkles in their grandfathers' eyes in 1492. Then, you should ask all those Latin American countries which we've treated so harshly how they'd like to go it without our foreign aid dollars. Oh yeah, it's a great idea to move the UN to Venezuela! When can they leave?

Respect? You kidding me Clinton Fan?
Respect, like the kind owed to someone who commits purgery in a court of law and is impeached all so he could get a hummer in the oval office. Or the respect owed to someone who based his entire political career on not being tied down to one solid position (although he probably would love the words i chose to use in that last sentence). Or the repsect owed to a man who let his administration so weaken our defenses and intelligence agencies that the next president was fed horribly incorrect information on the existence of certain dangerous weapons. Or the respect owed to a man who selected one of the former lead counsels at the ACLU to the highest court in the land.

Do YOU want the townhall.com bloggers to continue, because we've got many more than 15 waiting in the wings. Don't bring that trash. Not here. You sound to me like a big fan Streisand music and movies about global warming.

7 minutes
Wait a tic....Sure, GW could've changed into his GW suit flown to NYC stopped the second plane, then after gently placing the plane on the tarmac, flown over to the pentagon done the same and then to Pennslyvania. Here I am to save the day!!!!! Wow, he's my hero......Coming Soon to a theatre near you.....

Two Dogs did I mention........
...I love baseball? No?
Well there is never a better time to celebrate the American experience than to watch a major league baseball game in person at a stadium near you.
Sabretts, Hebrew National dogs, bratwurst, all of it chased with a cold beer or two....mmm. And don't forget pizza.......the alternative to 'dogs'. Ever tried hotdogs on your pizza?

As to contributions...hmmm. I have this paypal account see and you could send.......nah....just kidding.

And yes Sandy, the "Book of Virtues" should be required reading for all from the age of reason onward.

BTW, I also failed to mention that my little blurb in the previous post is directly from the "Bureau of Right Wing Conspiracies".....now where did that humor go.....geez...I just saw it and it has suddenly disappeared.....


Ya just gotta love this place.

Clarity of thought makes humor that much more appealing. Wouldn't you say?

Pray for peace.

In the meantime let's keep an eye out for those despots who seem to be running the roads in America lately. I would hate to run over one and get something incurable on me.

Carry on people.


"keep five yards"


clinton fan
clinton fan - surely you are not so ignorant that you would justify what chavez did and said in OUR country based solely on your HATRED of OUR - yes yours as well as mine - PRESIDENT. I am not now and never have been a fan of Bill Clinton, but if some 2 bit jackass had said something like what chavez said about President Clinton I would have been a bit upset.

Your suggestion that we should have elected kerry - perhaps you should check with some of the American veterans who were prisoners in North Vietnam prisons when kerry accused them of being war criminals during his testimony in front of the fulbright commission in April of 1971. his testimony - and not a word of it was ever proven, making him a liar and a traitor and a man

I have voted in 10 presidential elections and I have gone 5R 5D. I vote for the man. Give us someone better than john kerry - a liar, a coward and a traitor and I will consider it.

Surely that's not too much to ask- is it?

Meanwhile it might help if you showed a little love for your country. If you don't like it here than head for venezuela - we don't need you.

folks - please check http://WWW.MEMRI.ORG today. Things are coming to a head in allahland and there are some brave folks who are raising their voices over there. And please check George Weigel in a piece called "The Pope is right" in the l.a. times. The only way we are going to get through this alive is for us to pray and for

Clinton fan, you're really a jerk..sorry
Just trying to put this is perspectuve:

#1..He was legaly ELECTED, in spite of how you try to change it in the history books.

#2..That "remaining with school children" thing he did was what any leader would have done. No need to get kids all riled up before facts were clear. You all are stretching it here...

#3..Wow..if all you have in your bag of tricks is the fact that President Bush makes a few gaffes occasionally, well then, you have nothing.

AND FINALLY!!! If we elected a court jester, well then, all that means, in your teeny tiney brain, is that this court jester beat the pants off your big shot, intellectual pretty boys...TWICE!! HA!

I am weary...
My mind is a sewer right now...with all this Clinton crappola...can't we just put that loser away from our sensibilities...yea..I know, he is responsible for where we are but, just the sound of his name makes my head explode. I have had enough..just pray, hard, that his succubus wife stays where she is...Like they say...if she get elected we will be in really deep dodo...but I have a lot of faith and perhaps she will....can't go there....VOTE REPUBLICAN....like your life depends on it.

Ok, ok...
So I guess I was asking for it when I posted on this type of website. And I've gotten a healthy response...thanks for the insults. And yes, I mixed up 'our country' for western ideology/interests. But you can't dismiss everything I've said. And on top of that, I still haven't read a more complete historical explanation for the stance of Venezuela compared to that of the US. It's not about who Bush and Chavez are, but what they represent and stand for.

I know the US does not equal Spain or Italy or any other European country. But what we have come to stand for is most closely tied to western nations, and most opposed to what more liberal nations stand for. yes, Venezuela has a pretty extreme government. And yes, Chavez seems to be an extremist. And, just as a reminder, I don't support him. I'm not a communist, as so many of you would love to believe.

I also remember reading about the corruption (can't remember who posted though). I think that is a result of the economic situation. And let's not kid ourselves, the US doesn't have a flawless track record in that category either. So part of what I'm talking about stems from the human condition itself...greed, and the want (or need, depending on who you are), for more money/power/etc.

The fact of the matter is that the US has become the epitome of what Venezuela is trying to work against. And you know what, they have their reasons. I'm not saying I agree with them, but I'm sure if you sat down with any knowledgable Venezuelan and had a discussion about why they see us the way they do, it would shed some light. But it doesn't seem like many people on this forum are open to that. And I'm not saying that you should get on a plane right now. But you've got to be more open to that idea.

Yes, the founding fathers' decision to establish a 'democracy' was an all-important decision that led to where we are today. But you have to understand that, with that decision, came the perpetuation of the oppression of the people Chavez has come to represent...and we have benefitted a lot from that oppression.

Chavez is seen as a hero in Venezuela, but do you have any idea why? I should mention the CIA's presence in the region, and the various coups that our government has tried to execute in the region. Notice I say region, not Venezuela. So what I'm suggesting is that Chavez's position is not only a derivative of his country, but also the countries surrounding Venezuela.

I welcome criticism. It's good for healthy debate. But please, let's keep the slander to ourselves. It doesn't do any good for anyone, and sure doesn't boost your reputation.

one more thing - actually more than one
solo - just checked your offering. made me think back to them days of yesteryear when I lived in boston and on occasion would go to fenway park to c the sox and would pay $2 and sit in the bleachers in right field and get loaded.

back to my rant - (I was rudely cut off or whatever in the middle of a burst of genius) In April 1971 kerry (out of uniform) went in front of the fulbright commission and gave testimony in which he accused his fellow Vietnam servicemen of being war criminals. There is a documentary entitled 'Stolen Honor - Wounds that can never heal' that consists of kerry's testimony interspersed with commentary from MEN who were in N. Vietnamese prison camps at that time. They comment on the effect that kerry's testimony had on their lives in prison - it made their lives, already miserable, immeasurably worse. kerry was repeatedly challenged many times after that to name names - who what when where. he NEVER answered.

those who do not read history are condemned to repeat it. Think back to the early 50s. Joseph McCarthy became infamous for his habit of finding communists behind every fencepost, keyhole, anyplace. Yet he NEVER named names. Besides the obvious difference of their being on different sides of the ideological fence, is there any real difference between what kerry did to his COMRADES IN ARMS and what McCarthy did?

clinton fan - I know you HATE our (and that includes you whether you voted or not) President, but when some 2 bit tinpot jackass comes to OUR country and talks like that why can't you have the common decency to stand up for him?

Um, Dpitch..it's gettin old
"Let's keep the slander to ourselves." Are you kidding, dpitch?? How 'bout you write your congressman with that little request,d...hum? Start with congress...we all are just defending a legally elected president with a moral character and the cojones to be a real leader...not like your rapist pres....please....you are really putting my sensibilities to test with that one.

1 more thing - and this time I mean it
d-pitch - good point well made. I am a little cooler now, so let me say just this and then I have to go to day care to pick up my dog -

This is for everybody who is not an American citizen. (But probably wishes he or she were)

We are a contentious people and we fight and argue but as much as you want to get in on it, I advise you to BUTT OUT.

hugo - we have problems but we SURE don't need you butting in. How many of your people would give anything to live here?

God Bless America and pray for peace

dpitch
If it writes like a communist and smells like a communist then it must be a communist. I live in Miami and I don't know where you get you info, but a lot of Venezuelans have come to Miami, obviously those who can afford to come over, and funny, it's not at all what you claim they feel. Why else would they move over here. These people are leaving in droves because this guy is taking their property and freedoms. The people who have to stay are $hit out of luck, they're stuck there. You are he!! bent on blaming the US for everything. Are you sure you want to live in this evil imperialist empire? You might want to move to chavez land, where the land is filled with the scent of roses, and everyone sings kumbaya...

"The New Deal"
First things first, you must face the facts, you must now American's get to the mind game with yourselfs, you must not just let it all go and go to work and buy more cars and homes and work for your retirement , you must think it all through.

Will the first attack be conventional or nukes, will it be another huge terror attack and we not know for sure who did it, we must think of how many "WILL DIE", not just a mind game inside we must talk to one another of the real cost in lives, then we must understand that this time we the Americans are in the troop carriers, we are about to be lifted to the fire fight, we can see them coming up the trail ahead ready to fire, so there are many givens we do not wish to see and acknowledge, but there they are,, so rather than go into the fight unprepared,, prepare yourselfs , train others , help others train, learn as much as you can of how to fight, one thing is sure the political class are not now up to the job, so you America have only the same old "personal responsibilty" thing to fall back on, use it as before, one thing is sure we may have a problem defending ourselfs and our children and our county as there are those here within who will do all they can to prevent us from any sucess,,,,

a large question is, what will be the victory, how will it be known, that none can say, but we must think of the long run, and not allow this horrible thing to come once more 1,000 years from now or 10 years out, it must end, there must not be a moment in some distant future where they, someone, comes once more waving a strange book and with madness attempt to destroy all that has been done that is good,

go now learn of the way and teach others the way
only you and yours can save America now, never forget you must look at each others eyes at the moment of battle and know each of you that the eyes are true and brave at that moment it is the way,

thanks for your time

Sandy and Uncle Max
Sandy, you're a joke. Are (many) conservatives not capable of thought process. I never said he was illegally elected (though that is subject to debate). What I said was that he didn't receive the popular vote in 2000, hysterical woman. Using "HA" at the end of your post added a nice schoolyard element to your argument. Keep it up. Oh, BTW, you never responded to why Dubya so easily carried the vote of us ill-informed southerners.


Uncle Max, if Kerry saw any atrocities occurring in Vietnam he did the responsible thing to make his concerns known. But nowhere in my post do you see me offer any words of praise for John Kerry. But if you want to frame the debate over what happened during the Vietnam era let me make it easier for you. John Kerry volunteered for the conflict, Dubya (like Clinton) dodged it. And don't give me that mess about him joining a national guard unit reserved for the priviledged. If he was so concerned about the conflict he wouldn't have taken a year off to work on a political campaign.

Would you please point out the statements in which I even mildly imply that I condone what Chavez did? If you can't point any out (and you can't point out any) then start reading the posts as written and stop adding to them. I probably like Chavez less than you do.

And finally, the greatest love you can show for your country is to show dissent when our way of life is threatened, even if from within. This country was founded by Patriots that challenged the unjust laws of the British monarchy as opposed to settling in some other part of the world. I'll bet you said the same thing (if you don't like it you can leave) to black people during the civil rights era when many U. S. citizens, both black and white, were fighting for a colorblind society. Even if you didn't, there were a lot of people with you mindset that did. No sir, I'll stay in the country that I was born in; the country that I love. As a matter of fact, maybe you're the one that doesn't belong in a country where freedeom of dissent is not only excersized, but welcomed. By telling me to leave, you showed what you think about the principles that this country was founded on. May I suggest any Middle Eastern country. There, you don't have to worry about anyone expressing differing opinions. You will never have to worry about anyone criticizing your leaders. Shame on you for even suggesting that I leave this country, sir.

The UN and Chavez
Chavez is a clown. He has come into my/our house and insulted our elected leader, our government and our way of life. That he did this in the UN is one thing. For him to do it in Harlem is quite another. This is/was ridiculous. His apparent supporters, who applauded him should be immediately shipped to Venezuela to enjoy the fine life. This includes the traitor Danny Glover. So far as the UN is concerned, the United States should pull out of this organization and order its departure from this country. Additionally, we should cut off all foreign aid from any country which attended the conference in Cuba. It's time we made our vote count.

This series
This series has been great.

TwoDog - right on, wish I had your learning on the subject.
Solo - great responses
Sandy - I'm not a sports fan, but I'll contribute
dpitch - You'd better try reading something other than grocery store rags

Ed

Just another note;
Lt. Kerry is and was a liar and a fraud, in fact this poster and others used his own reports in his own hand from the Texas Tech Vietnam Arcives , its all there for all with eyes and a mind to see if they care for truth, my best thing to point out is the "Hap River" battle?, you see they the 5 swiftboats were up this small river, and as they past a fish weir one swiftboat hit a underwater mine,, Lt. Kerry's boat went "per his own words" some distance up the river and truned back,,,, "under heavy fire the whole time",from both banks of the river, so as we read that report back in Aug. of 2004 , my mind said,,, wow,,, what bull shit,,, for you see as we reviewed the communication logs for the day, from the time after the mine went off until the end of the day only one communication,, one,, "we need a tow boat" thats it , thats all,, some big fire fight, only one windshield had a bullet hole, and it was from the day before,,,,

here is the deal, if you were in what he said, you would have,
1. called for air support, "helo's ect"
2. called for a reaction company
3. called for help, help, help,, and lots of people would have died on both sides, because I can tell you true, the VC and the NVA sure as could shoot better than repersented in Lt. Kerrys lies, and the guys on the .50 cal's in the swiftboats sure could also.

LT. KERRY IS A LIAR AND A FRAUD AND HE WILL RECIVE THE JUDGEMENT OF HISTORY AND NO AMOUNT OF LIES CAN SAVE HIM, ITS IN THE RECORD, IN FACT MOST LIKELY IN HIS OTHER FULL NAVY RECORDS HE WILL NOT AND HAS NOT RELEASE AS HE TOLD TIM RUSSERT OF MEET THE PRESS SO LONG AGO,,,,

facts count, truth counts, lies, well thats you deal, what are the worth these days,?

I guess it take some basics...
Well, using HA! at the end of the sentence is just meant to reinforce ones thought. Sorry you did not get the subtleties of the technique...and you also alluded to the fact that he is president by virtue of his family name. And so, therefore, my thought process....sorry you did not get it...but being educated by the good Sisters of Sts. Jospeh and Dominick and in the great state of NY, I would naturally find what goes on here in the south as less than acceptable, as far as education is concerned. Sorry that the truth is there....but I really would like to point out that we are supposed to be on the same team, here..I mentioned that more than once on this thread...missed that point, too, I guess!...HA!

Signing off
I am sorry , Clinton fan..but it really is getting me weary...I am closing the computer for the rest of the day...My head is about to exlpode with all the BS.

More than one plate can be spinning
I love engaging in debates and sharing ideas with people of similiar and differing view points. But, when people like Clinton Fan respond to what he feels are unfair attacks on him with comments like "move to the middle east because there they dont criticize their leaders", you have to respond. Clinton Fan, life does not start and stop with Bush and Clinton hatred. The extreme positions that people take are unhealthy and counter-productive. It is possible to hold more than one belief or idea in your head at a time without contradicting what you truly believe or feel. I compare it to the plate-spinners at the circus who can keep it all going and add more on as they continue with the act.

It is not enough to say that you are patriotic if you criticize your president if you feel something is wrong because our forefathers did it and that was a good thing against the British. Just as it would be foolish to say that you MUST agree with everything a president says whether you voted for him or not. The point here is that Liberals have spent six years hating the man more than the message. Disagree with policies and vote for people you feel would be better suited in office. If/when you lose, say what is on your mind but do not be disrespectful of any of your fellow man. I know conservatives are just as guilty and I myself am too. But, there must be times of clarity where we step back and look at what we are really saying and if it is accomplishing anything more than raising our blood-pressure and hurting our emotional health. Dennis Prager often speaks on hapiness and the need we all have for joy. I agree.

Lets keep the debates going, but on both sides of the aisle, we need to be happy with ourselves and proud to be Americans before we can TRULY accomplish things that are beneficial. Not every American will win in every debate or with every piece of legislature or in every election. There are no perfect men and no perfect laws and no perfect political parties. Be happy we are free and have freedom of speech, but what is the point in exploiting that freedom just because you can?

Ronald Reagan said that he would go for 100% of his goals, but was prepared to be content with 90%. That isnt a bad way to live if you ask me. Have a good one, Clinton Fan.

Who's a joke?
Clinton fan, you have some nerve, calling other people "a joke."

Regarding your "Liberals are brainiacs, conservatives are D-U-M-M" notion:

a) The relevant difference between voting patterns in the Northeast and the South is not the difference in educational achievement (measured by debatable yardsticks), but difference in cultural norms. Democrats do best in urban areas influenced by more recent, European philosophies (postmodernism, multiculturalism, neo-marxism, etc.); Republicans do better in areas more influenced by Protestant-rooted philosophies.

b) I'm conservative; want to compare IQ and aptitude test scores with me? Tell you what: I'll give you $5 for each point your IQ is above mine, and $5 for each point your analytical reasoning aptitude score is above mine (I'm assuming you took the GRE at some point); you give me $1 for each point my score is above yours. Deal?

c) In the last election, people with either a high school diploma or an undergrad college diploma voted pretty heavily for the Republican candidate; the Democrats won because of VAST majorities in post-graduate degrees (e.g. university geeks) and high school DROPOUTS.

What you said about faith, you need to apply to intellect; there's no particular correlation between intellectual ability and political party.

There DOES seem to be a correlation between maturity and politics, however: I've noticed that the vast sea of Boomers who never escaped their teenage anger, but continue to live as teenagers in adult bodies, are all political liberals. That result is so consistent, in my experience, that I'm apt to agree with Michael Savage (whom I dislike for lots of other reasons) when he says "Liberalism is a mental disorder." I'm not joking.

Oh, and regarding my previous post: 1) Hurl insults however you like, the final tallies of votes are official and in writing, and I'm not lying about them; and 2) I didn't say I WANTED to do anything in person, I said you should be glad I didn't.

Whinning Libbies
Just take what the Libbies have to say with a grain of salt. Remember this:

How to anger a Conservative, tell em a lie.

How to anger a Libbie, tell em the truth.

To All LIbs Reveling in Chavez' Audacity
So you libs think it's great that this tinhorn came into the US and dissed our Prez? You think we had this coming because we have exploited the whole world and it is our fault for every single problem in it? You think Chavez has the right to do so under the First Amendment (even though he offers no such rights to his own people)and we should say nothing in response? What is wrong with you all?

Just because you have the right under the First Amendment to say whatever you want does not mean you are immune from an unfavorable response. If I come into your house and insult your spouse or kids does that mean it's all OK because of the First Amendment and therefore you should not be permitted to put forth a negative response? - I think not. You have First Amendment rights as well. In addition we all know there is certain speech that is outlawed in this country so the First Amendment is not an end-all.

I find it amazing that to liberals the Constitution is a living and ever changing document, its meaning adapted and modified as need be to justify a number of their policies that cannot be won at the ballot box - that is until it needs to be considered as set in stone and applied to an argument on your behalf to advance your agenda.

The thing that bothers me the most about you liberals is that you are all so noble and above it all and you never seem to get mad about anything - least of all insults to your country and your President. You all want to be so intellectual about everything with little or no consideration to common sense.
That is why while you all are standing around debating:
-what rights we should extend to this terrorist here and that Venezuelan creep over there (free speech and three square meals for everyone!),
-why we shouldn't impose ourselves on other despotic and oppressive regimes and allow them to continue starving, torturing, and killing their own citizens ('cause he11, we had slaves once!),
-why we shouldn't project any power to protect ourselves (people might not like us and France says non!),
-why we shouldn't profile this group or that group (even though while all Muslims are not terrorists - most terrorists are Muslim!),
-why we shouldn't listen in on this conversation or that one (even though they come from suspected terrorists outside the U.S. to people in the U.S.- as if they were listening to us talk to our wives or something!),
-why we shouldn't have a national ID card or a valid drivers license to vote (I need a photo ID to write a check for groceries for crying out loud!),
-why we shouldn't track suspected terrorist's finances (you know the money they use to finance the death of Americans!),
-why the Patriot Act is taking away our civil liberties (I dare you to point out to me one liberty that you have lost personally!)

...THEY WILL KILL US ALL WHEN THEY GET THE CHANCE!

Maybe when Chicago disappears in a nuclear blast you guys will get serious - if it's not too late by then. With all of the incessant whining from the left you guys have now tied our hands to the point where when Iran finally gets that nuke and decides to use it on us we will be powerless to do anything about it. You would think that you'd all be a little more concerned about whether your kids or your grandkids will grow up reading the Bible or the Koran. The naivete constantly on display is astounding.

Don't you all realize that all of the liberties you stand for (abortion on demand, gay marriage, sex changes, needle programs, pornography, drug use, etc.)are exactly the behaviors that have convinced these people we are the devil? If a terrorist had to choose which Americans he could kill because his time was limited - do you think he'd spare you guys?

All of the noble ideals and rights liberals fight for will not amount to a hill of beans if these anti-American terrorist thugs and dictators have their way. You'll be facing Mecca and praying five times a day if they let you live. Wake up people.

Mr. Ecko
Definitely the best post of the day. If I engaged in any of the behavior I was wrong, but my first instinct is to attack when attacked. You have a good and blessed weekend sir, and maybe we can discuss (blog) in the future. I'm outta here.

Isaiah
Thanks for your patriotic post! It's reassuring to know that people like you (and so many others) recognize that we need to stand together in difficult times.

I would live for the day
"We are past the point where we need to belabor the sins of the past. We need to move on to make ourselves energy independent. No matter what your political leanings, we are giving power to our enemies by purchasing their oil."

YES! Without oil sales, the whole Middle East can literally go pound sand. Without oil, who needs them?

Bio-diesel anyone? Available at your nearest restaurant. Some assembly & modifications required.

And I like the Kabul idea. It's even better than Bogota.

Sandy, about Chavez...
Every dog has his day. And his will be over someday, maybe sooner than later. Demagogues have a way of wearing on people.

Pitiful Ignorance
One thing I noticed with the Leftys is their appalling ignorance on how things work.

Case in point: They criticize Pres. Bush for sitting in that classroom for 7 minutes after he was informed of the attack on the WTC, Pentagon, etc...

What was he supposed to do? Run screaming from the room?

Try to think of what occurred behind the scenes:

Aide: "Sir, we have a developing situation here. We are working to find a secure location to move you, and obtain clearance for Air Force One to fly. Be ready to move in 6 minutes."

Do you Leftys ever even CONSIDER that while he sat for those 7 minutes his aides, Secret Service, and entourage were scrambling around trying to find where, how and when he is to go on such short, unplanned notice?

This is a perfect example of how Liberals DON'T THINK.

Left Wing Morale
Check out Daily Kos today...lefty morale is rock bottom. They can't figure out why all the fuss about Chavez / Amadhajiihad!!! DRAT these people are actually stirring up patriotism and WE CANT HAVE THAT! Gotta keep up the incessant Bush bashing. One post stated that the Republicans are "failures at everything" then went on to say that Dems will control Congress if they "just explain how their plan" in clear and simple language. Of course, no "plan" is mentioned! ROFL!!

I peeked...could not resist
Clinton fan just wrote..."but my first instinct is to attack when attacked." Well, this country was verbally attacked over the last few days, if you had not noticed....see, folks, this is what I am talking about...libs deal with feelings...like little children or small animals...and then we are left with pulling their bacon out of the fire every stinkin'time...I promis this is the last you will hear from me today...last thought...VOTE REPUBLICAN...your life depends on it.....!

Isaiah 45:22
I was disappointed in our black brothers too. Yesterday I wrote that the people in that congregation who cheered Chavez were so DARNED ignorant and brainwashed that they did not understand what this guy is about. They cheered him even though Venuzuella has a treaty with Iran to protect each other is attacked by the United States.


I describe inner city blacks who vote like robots for the Democrat Party as ignorant beyond belief. Not necessarily stupid, but ignorant. I think you are right Isaiah to describe them as brainwashed. They are conditioned to hate George Bush and the Republican Party. I think that deep down inside, most of them hate white people.


That is obviously an example of irrational thinking, since blacks vote for Democrat politicians all the time. Of course Democrat politicians, white and black, are hustling the black vote before every election. They are introduced and endorsed by black preachers, in black churches, who split hairs about violating their tax exempt status.


Those clapping blacks obviously never gave a thought to the fact that Hugo may one day play a key role in the delivery of a dirty bomb into America. Perhaps to be detonated right there in New York City. (Hey, maybe stupid really applies here).


There is nothing surprising about what the UN, Hugo Chavez, or the genocidal Iranian President think of President Bush, or the American people. The applause at the UN was revealing, and reflected the anti-American, Bush hating sentiments of those losers who foul the air in New York simply by being there.


What was momentarily surprising was the performances of Charlie Rangel and Nancy Pepoli. Only for a moment though.


Everything that these two avowed enemies of America said was what Rangel and Pelosi have been saying for years. Sure, Hugo, showman that he is, creatively came up with his "Diablo" comparison. Claiming that the podium he was polluting smelled of sulfer was cute. (I think he was smelling his own upper lip).


Rangel and Pelosi were practicing damage control. They know full well that jihadists and America hating mutts like Chavez have been spouting the Democrat Party line since 9/11. Their neauseating rebuke of Chavez proved that they know he felt comfortable saying what he did because he was simply reciting their talking points.


I have never liked or respected Charlie Rangel. Ditto for Nancy Pelosi. Now I have absolute, utter contempt for them both. If they had kept quiet it might not have drawn as much attention to the way their statements have become the main thread of jihadist propaganda. Their ineffectual, clumsey attempt to clean up their filthy vilification of Bush shows how clearly they understand the ramifications of what they have been saying.


I also agree that Mike Gallagher was probably snookered. It has to be pretty heady stuff to be given face time with the President of the United States of America. It would have been an exellent time for those columnists to press Bush to explain why he has defied the will of the American people to close our borders. It would also have been interesting to ask President Bush about mnesty, and the NAFTA highway that will nullify American sovreignty.


I forgive Mike for not asking those questions. As far as I am concerned his bona fides are still in order. I can't say the same for Medved. I think he is a little shakey.

dpitch
dpitch writes:
"But what we have come to stand for is most closely tied to western nations, and most opposed to what more liberal nations stand for."
"I'm not a communist, as so many of you would love to believe."

Okay, you say you are not a communist. Will you please explain what you mean, then when you speak of the US and closely tied western nations opposition to what more LIBERAL nations stand for?

What then, is your definition of 'more liberal nations', what is it that they stand for (that we and other western nations oppose) and could you please supply a few examples of such nations?

dpitch writes:
"The fact of the matter is that the US has become the epitome of what Venezuela is trying to work against."

WHAT? Care to explain that? What are they fighting against that we are the 'epitome' of?
(I'm guessing that, even though you are 'not a communist', it has something to do with the 'evils' of capitalism.

dpitch writes:
"Yes, the founding fathers' decision to establish a 'democracy' was an all-important decision that led to where we are today. But you have to understand that, with that decision, came the perpetuation of the oppression of the people Chavez has come to represent...and we have benefitted a lot from that oppression."

Help me out here. How did the founding fathers decision to to establish a democracy lead to the 'perpetuation of the oppression of the people'?

Does it really never occur to you that the thing our 'democracy' has lead to is the "so many priviledges in our country" that you are so derisive of, and that a similar governmental system would do the same for them? That it IS their system that is holding them back rather than our success being responsible for their failures??

You know, there is no natural law stating that the planet can only economically support 1/3 of its' nations successfully. Economic success in one nation does not prevent the same in another.

You have acknowledged that "Venezuela has a pretty extreme government" and that there is "corruption" but then go on to say "I think that is a result of the economic situation."

Are you KIDDING me? That's like saying the SF Forty-Niner's are a bad team because they lost the game. NO! They lost the game because they are a bad team! You've got to get an understanding of cause and effect if you want to understand the world around you.

P.S. You sound very young. The poster's on this site are not referring to you as a prime example of the results of today's education system in the US for no reason. And I understand that you feel that you have been 'insulted' because you "posted on this type of website. Let me explain to you where you have gone wrong. I will list just 3 examples in your words, though you have left many to chose from:


1)"it seems apparent that the argument coming from the right is largely founded on ignorance."

2)"I am...merely a seeminly more informed American."

3)"I was asking for it when I posted on 'this type of website'."

And you say WE insulted YOU?


Clinton Fan
John Kerry "volunteered" for service after his deferments had run out.
Then he stayed in the war zone an astonishing 4 months, ranking up Purple Hearts galore in that short amount of time, just to be able to bail out early and go home to promptly start trashing his fellow "comrades in arms".
It is amazing how much influence and power liberals think that a little known congressman from Texas wielded back in 1968, when the President joined the Texas Air National Guard.
Your hero was the ONLY draft-dodger that has served in the White House.
Just to set the facts straight....

So Hugo was smellin' som'thin' funky...
It was probably his own putrid breath blowing back in his face.

I cannot express the outrage I feel over this slimy excuse for a human being coming into MY country and launching this kindergarten-style attack on MY president. Who the H&*LL does he think he IS?

He wants to "donate" oil (at 60% cost, of course) to our "poor"- even though the POOR in his OWN country can never even DREAM of the lifestyle enjoyed by the "poor" in THIS country, at taxpayer cost. A far larger percent of his population is "poor"- according to the ACTUAL definition of the word.

I have an idea "HOO-go"- how about you give YOUR people what they REALLY need- fair and fraud-free elections?

dpitch
I have another question for you. You say Chavez hates us, with some justification, because we have oppressed his country.

Can you explain to me why it is that last year, Chavez gave over forty million in foreign aid to our country? Why did he state yesterday that he was going to double that this year? If you are not aware of this, he reduced the price of heating oil by 40% for certain northeastern cities in the US and called it foreign aid. As far as I can tell, it IS foreign aid.

Why is Chavez depriving his 'oppressed' people of much needed resources?

I can only assume you are a proponent of foreign aid, as you have said we have not done enough for Venezuela.

A.
So, is this a moral act on Chavez's part? I would say not. He has no right to give away resources (money) that his citizens need. He certainly shouldn't be giving it to people who need it far less than his people do. Above all, he shouldn't be taking from his citizens (to whom he has a duty) for personal profit, and that is what he is doing.

B.
Is it a moral act on the part of our 'liberal' politicians to accept this money? At the very least it is meant to put us in debt to our professed enemy. At worst it is much more than that. I say it is not moral to accept it.

Giving foreign aid to another country does NOT equal altruism or moral behavior.

You say we need to 'understand' where Chavez is coming from. I say you have demonstrated that YOU have no clear understanding of his motives. Your perception that he is angry at us for past and present 'oppression' is stunningly naive and misinformed. Your willingness to believe that we have 'oppressed' this country and that this explains the motives of Chavez is to be BLINDINGLY oblivious to the power plays he is executing on his own behalf.

And your need to see the US as the perpetual 'bad guys' is disheartening to say the least. You are not likely to find one conservative that says the US has never done anything wrong. On the other side of the coin, it is becoming increasingly difficult to find a 'liberal' who thinks the US has ever done anything right, and you all CONSISTENTLY assign the best of motives to enemies and the foulest of motives to the US. Do you Dems on this board see nothing wrong with this?

Well, dpitch has already been gutted...
...so I'll pick on Stan 47, who wrote:

"Boycotting Citgo is silly
...because the people it would hurt most are Americans who own the gas stations here. Chavez will always be able to find a market for his country's oil.

To put your neighbor out of business to "punish" Chavez is about as childish as kicking someone's bicycle because he made you angry."


An opium grower will always find a market for his product too. Does that mean that sensible people should end our "silly" boycott of heroin because the only people it really hurts are the poor dealers, hoppers, runners and yelllers here in our own cities?

As to the second part of your post, if my "neighbor" is, however unwittingly, using his business to raise money for our enemies, then putting him out of business sounds like a great idea.

Besides, I'm sure any of the other gasoline companies would jump at the chance to run their own product through the pumps vacated by Citgo.

haha,how's it feel now, Bushites?
I have to laugh at Gallagher's blatant hypocrisy. In one second he objects to the "cartoonish" language of calling Bush "the devil", and the next he calls other world leaders "lunatic", "vermin", "creeps" etc etc.

And where do you think Chavez got his idea? Bush himself and American conservatives are the ones who started this whole trend of calling people "evil", "godless" etc etc. Now you all can't bear to hear how asinine it truly sounds! This hatred and disgust you feel is merely at yourselves!


Clinton
The future secretary general will be on Fox News Sunday and boy does he sound mad! Apparently he considers 8 months of accomplishments equivalent to his 8 years, as he was yelling that Bush had 8 months to capture Bin Laden and didn't pull it off. I guess that is about all you need to know about him. Eight years and countless terrorist attacks against the United States and "I tried" is all we get. Oh, and blowing up a pharmaceutical factory in Africa, as well as an abandoned training post.

And for those who think he's a saint, the Arkansas Supreme Court disbarred him from the practice of law and I can assure you, that is something supreme courts never want to do to a lawyer. You have to be pretty screwed up to lose your license. Call it taking care of your own or whatever, but they hammered him which goes to show how wonderful the legal community views him as well.

Mr Ecko
Yes Jimmy Carter did it and he recieved TEN MILLION dollars for that piece of work. Now he is still going arouund the world speaking against our president every chance he gets. He should be tried.
And did anyone notice the news people call our President "Mr. Bush", and still call Clinton "Mr. President"? Talk about disrespect!!!

Ohmy
Well I guess when the president is called an "idiot" by the democratic camp all through the election campaign and too dumb to put coherent thoughts together, etc, and then when it turns out your fabulous candidate had a lower gpa and IQ, you gotta come up with some sort of comeback. Though it was odd that the same papers that did the "bush is an idiot" never returned the favor and talked about that much.

I don't know what you do for a living but there are days when I feel inadequate as the head of my household. I can't imagine being ultimately responsible for the entire United States, and wouldn't want the job for a second. Further, any time I get up and speak to a large group of people it makes me nervous, and I do it for a living. There are probably times that a jury looks at me and wonders if I'm suffering from a lack of oxygen. So I can excuse his not being always on his A game in large settings. His predecessor, on the other hand had an innate ability to convince anyone he was interested in them. An interesting comment by John Travolta highlights this. Travolta played Clinton in the movie Primary Colors. He hated Clinton, but thought he ought to meet him as he would be playing him. He said he had never met a more mesmerizing person in his life and came away amazed by Clinton's ability to win you over to his side.

Finally, to close on the idiot point, when you can buy the Texas Rangers for peanuts and turn around sell them for a significant profit, sign me up for some of that idiot training.

But I guess the real dilemna to liberals is the fact they lost an election to an idiot like that. Must really be unnerving...

Ohmy
To go back to your name calling point, it's one thing to call someone evil when they murder millions of their own people (see Hussein, Saddam), starve millions of their own people in a pursuit of nuclear weapons and warlike intentions (see Kim Jong Il, North Korea), and supporters of terrorist groups who publicly claim they want to exterminate the nation of Israel and took a U.S. Embassy hostage and thumbed their noses at the United States for over a year (see Iran). It's another thing to call someone an idiot because you didn't vote for him, a devil because you are trying to score points with those same evil nations (why, I'm not sure, but that's his problem), and any of a thousand other names the liberal establishment has heaped on the President.


Sometimes the truth hurts...

What a great week!
I used to think we ought to toss the UN out on its collective *ss. I've changed my mind, however. This week of watching, first hand, the self-proclaimed cocks of the walk, spewing, has given me hope. Most of the liberals I know are good-hearted. What they lack, IMO, is the realization that most people in the world are not as caring as they are. They simply cannot believe that there are still people out there who have such an antiquated, and frankly barbarian model, of the world. This week, they saw something that has to give at least a few of them pause. When you change the underlying assumption, that all people are basically decent and want what is best for everyone, for what really exists out there....well....it kind of changes the whole picture, doesn't it?

I don't remember who said it. But, the statement that sticks in my mind is something akin to, "Keep your friends close. Keep your enemies even closer." The UN is exactly where it belongs. In our yard.

Thomas

Boycott citgo anyway
We need to get out of the un,and now.Tell all the Americans pushing their stinking gas to change brands.this is too important an issue to not do something drastic and do it now.

And to Lokietek,may the Lord's choices of blessing be upon you and your family,we do need more Americans like you.

also i ment to say
we need more Americans like Lokietek and a lot less of PUKES like Tanabear and his ilk

Dumb UN!
These people proclaim at the top of their lungs the virtues of tolerance and equality, yet they only seem to practice it when the less than sane take the podium.

Differences, political or otherwise, does not make one the Devil; murdering thousands of people does.

ClintonFan Re:Right Wing Wackos
I am aware I have just posted, and I am not right-wing, but a centralist, yet I am compelled to say this:

Clintonfan: Bush was busy running for Texas governor in the years around 1996. He had a bit of trouble with this since he did not go to school there or even was born there.

Although I do not believe he was "appointed by God", he truly is a nice man, no matter if you agree with his decisions or not. he has help many a poor person by his tax cuts in Texas, a favorite amonst the people being Tax-free weekends.

Additionally, you do know that God instates capital punishment for the Jews in Genesis, right?

Someone
complained about Bush flipping the bird to news people. (these comments are really long and I have forgotten who)
I watched that news conference. They had asked him the same question over and over. He answered over and over. Obviously, they were trying to get him to say something else than the answer he gave, because they hammered him with that same question, some not even bothering to rephrase. As the news conference ended and he was walking down the hall, some of the media folks were still yelling that same question. He flipped the bird. I decided right then that George W Bush was my all time favorite President.

Arrested Development
When Cindy Sheehan was being first interviewed she made a comment which sums up George Bush. Sheehan met Bush in a 15 minute photo-op session designed to make Bush look good meeting with grieving mothers.

Here's what Sheehan said. When she met Bush the first words out of Bush's mouth were, "Hi, I'm George Bush, I'm the President of the United States."

Everyone in the room already knows his name, he was announced and introduced officially before coming in the room, and yet he still feels obligated to blurt out his name and position to every single person in the greeting line. What this says is that he's still a young child, emotionally stumped and everyday wakes up with the same simply joy of just "being the President".

Cindy couldn't believe what she had just heard and so it goes with Bush.

Bush reminds me of Calvin in the cartoon "Calvin and Hobbes". One of my favorite panels with set during Christmas. Calvin is in the kitchen singing Jingle Bells. Seems innocent enough. In the next panel Mom's foot is planted in Calvin's butt as he is being kicked out the door. In the last panel Calvin states, "I say if Jingle Bells is good the first time, its just as good the one-thousandth time."

Calvin has arrested development because he's drawn that way by his creator. It's cute in a cartoon. It's devastating for a President.

From giving the German Chancelor a back massage, stating "I am the Decider", flipping off the media, to emotionally needing town halls where everyone signs a loyalty oath so he doesn't have to deal with criticism, the evidence is clear that Bush is stuck emotionally at the childhood stage.

Where that hurts this country is that six-year-olds don't see things in shades of gray, but rather black-and-white. Bush only understands "you are either for us or against us". Bush doesn't understand that there are people in between who will change their position given different circumstances.

Bush is at his worst, at his most forced, when dealing with shades of gray. He sucks on Social Security reform and Immigration. He's best on matters of black-and-white. He sucks at trying to build a government in Iraq. He's stiff, unconvincing and looks like he is flat out lying whenever he makes statements about Islam being a peaceful religion.

I argue that Bush's emotional arrested development is nothing more than a mirror reflection of the people who support him. Mostly there is a strong desire to see things in black on white on the part of conservatives.

Liberals are bad, conservatives are good. Liberals are always wrong, conservatives are always right. And guess what. There is so much evidence for my position. Whether listening to Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity or Dennis Prager, the conservatives have a steady drum beat of liberals are evil, wrong and the enemies of this country ad nausem.

As Dennis Prager espoused, "I believe the Left has been wrong on virtually every great moral issue in the last 30 years."

That kind of black and white thinking is silly to say the least.

Sadly, I think history is bound to repeat itself. Painting liberals as all bad, all evil all the time with such hatred as is demonstrated ad nauseum on this board and most places conservatives these day will have an effect eventually. People like Bush will invade places like Iraq for no reason and thousands of innocent people will die who wouldn't have otherwise. And Bush and the conservatives have no remorse, no tears for those dead Iraqi's. The cowards who would "kill innocent people, or draw innocent people into a fight with our enemy so they die to protect our own asses" cannot be seen as morally just in the eyes of humans or any deity.

Bush's arrested development both emotionally and therefore intellectually (making him a moron) is a direct reflection of the wishes of the Rush Limbaugh crowd. Those conservatives want things in black and white. Kill the evil and save the good. There is no capacity for understanding the people don't just embody one set of values.

In California it is very common to hear people say "I'm socially liberal and fiscally conservative" when speaking of their personal politics. Can you say "prop 13?" But how can one spend money on social programs and be fiscally conservative? The answer? It's a gray notion of politics. It's contradictory on the extremes and ideal in the middle.

Bush's arrested development emotionally and intellectually is nothing more than a reflection of the voters who put him into office. This is a sophisticated world we've politically and physically manufactured with our technology and science, but simpletons want to deny this and elect people like George Bush to frame things to make them comfortable. That intellectual dishonesty and denial lies at the very heart as to why we have a simpleton for a president and why people like Prager, Gallagher, Limbaugh, Hannity and Coulter defend it.





liberal dialogue
More like liberal monologue.

bravo to chavez
Bravo to Chavez for reminding the world what a malevolent moron Bush is.

Bush Meets Cindy Sheehan
George Bush introduces himself exactly the same way all civilized people would do. Down-to-earth, no pretension, no assumption. Yet liberal dialog chooses to reach into the bottom of the barrel to convince others that President Bush's politeness should be likened to a cartoon character.

Aside from that absurdity, has liberal dialog informed him/herself of Cindy Sheehan's two opposite descriptions of her meeting with President Bush? That's a cartoon in the making!

MtnRose:
"I would say that Hugo Shove-itz's speech was filled with religious talk. Or isn't the Devil a religious figure?"

There's a difference between religious talk and actually being it. I'm not religious but I can still talk about the handwriting on the wall, which is what I think you're referring to, or say it's better to marry than to burn. Just because I spout references means nothing.

My comparison to Pat Robertson, which I did say was "without the religion", was that Chavez, like Robertson, says outrageous things he may regret later. One difference: Robertson apoligizes.

Yo, Hugo,,, ?CITGO for sale ?
Some one droped you and your little company like a old box of rocks, uh, getting any offers for it, do you think you can run from the retirement obligations the workers have seeing your such a socialist and all you got little running room there, so looks like you get to eat it uh, hows it taste this "what goes around comes around donut" from 7/11 will it casue you to have a

"big gulp"

later fool
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