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Monday, May 11, 2009
Mike Adams :: Townhall.com Columnist
Perez Hilton’s Pet Emu
by Mike Adams
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Do you feel the leaked information from a global warming alarmist organization is meaningful?



I hate to gossip – especially about a gossip columnist – but rumor has it that Perez Hilton just landed a new job. He’ll be leaving the world’s second most embarrassing profession to join the world’s most embarrassing profession. Yep, you guessed it; he’s going to become a college professor.

Eastern Michigan University (EMU) has decided to hire Perez Hilton to teach in its counseling program. The decision follows a recent controversy that has landed the school in federal court.

School officials dismissed a student, Julea Ward, from the school’s counseling program for not affirming homosexual behavior as morally acceptable. Julea is a black woman – in other words, someone who is a minority on the basis of biology. Unlike gays, Julea makes no effort to assert minority status on the basis of individual choice.

Julea is also, like Carrie Prejean, a brave and principled individual. She would not agree prior to a counseling session to affirm a client’s homosexual behavior. Nor would she retract her stance in subsequent disciplinary proceedings at EMU. She recognizes that gays are no longer seeking tolerance in America, they are seeking approval. And she knows that the First Amendment preserves our freedom to speak that which we believe as well as our freedom to not speak that which we do not believe.

The Alliance Defense Fund is handling the lawsuit. Their Senior Counsel David French summed the case up best by saying, "When a public university has a prerequisite of affirming homosexual behavior as morally good in order to obtain a degree, the school is stepping over the legal line.” French also noted that Julea did the responsible thing (following her supervising professor’s advice) to have the client referred to a counselor who did not have a religious conscience issue with the matter to be discussed in counseling.

EMU requires students in its program to affirm or validate homosexual behavior within the context of a counseling relationship. It also prohibits students from advising clients that they can change their homosexual behavior. But Julea Ward has never addressed the issue of homosexual behavior during counseling sessions with clients. That has never been an issue.

EMU initiated its Orwellian disciplinary process against Ward and informed her that there was only one way she could stay in the graduate school counseling program: She would have to agree to undergo a "remediation" program.

The purpose of the “remediation” program would be to help Ward "see the error of her ways" and change her "belief system" as it relates to counseling about homosexual relationships. It would ensure she changed her beliefs to be in line with the university’s views. When Ward did not agree with the conditions, she was given the option of either a) voluntarily leaving the program or, b) asking for a formal review hearing.

For those who aren’t following this twisted logic, there are three points worth highlighting in rule form:

1) The university has “official” beliefs and uses the authority of the state to enforce them.

2) The belief that homosexuality can be changed is not among them. Hence, it cannot be expressed.

3) The belief that traditional religious views can be changed is a state-sanctioned belief. The state may act upon this belief in accordance with rule #1.

I am pleased that Julea Ward chose the hearing. But I am displeased to hear that during the hearing EMU faculty denigrated her Christian views and asked numerous inappropriate questions about her religious beliefs. I am also displeased that the hearing committee dismissed her from the counseling program in March. Finally, I am displeased that the dean of the College of Education upheld the dismissal two weeks later.

Everything I have written in this column is true, except for the part about hiring Perez Hilton to teach at EMU. The university does not need more intolerant bigots embedded within the ranks of the professoriate and given the protection of tenure. I am only thankful that EMU students are not actually asked to engage in homosexual sex acts in order to obtain class credit.

Surely, no one would defend such an outrageous assignment. But we will soon find out after a future column. A professor in Missouri has already given social work students homework asking them to experiment with homosexuality.

To be continued.

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About The Author
Mike Adams is a criminology professor at the University of North Carolina Wilmington and author of Feminists Say the Darndest Things: A Politically Incorrect Professor Confronts "Womyn" On Campus.
 
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Gerbel Killers Can Indeed Be Cured
http://www.narth.com

Well, Well Terrence
You write to Robert in part:

"Robert, as we already discussed on another day, you are kidding yourself. Whether homosexuality is a sin has been in dispute from the very beginning of the church. This is a matter of known church history."

Comment: And what bible and texts are YOU reading????. Reference a text that clearly says homosexuality is NOT a sin or is disputed. Use any text up to 400ad. THERE IS NONE.

"If you know the truth and continue to report a lie you are a deceiver."

Comment: Bravo! No truer words have ever been spoken! And to view the VERY DESERVING RECIPIENT of this phrase, look right in the mirror!! In fact, use the term scoffer or lewts if you have any clue what they mean. YOU fit both.


"My guess is that you are afraid to debate the truth because you know you will lose, so you continue to propagate a lie."

Comment: There is no need to debate the truth,or the word of God. Moron. The truth is the truth. It is not open for debate because it is the truth, and the word of God. Who are YOU to decide the truth means something different because YOU like to use YOUR anal orifice for something other than it was intended? What YOU do Terrrence is twist, villify , and scoff at 2,000 years and countless scholars on these threads without a SINGLE REFERENCE to support your assertions, all because of your sexual deviancy.

Robert, myself have 2000 years of scholars, research, the bible and the word of GOD,

WHO ARE YOU? To dispute the word of God, the truth, and call someone who believes in the truth as written a deceiver?

Who enthroned YOU as and YOUR perversion as the word of GOD? Who? By what authority?

Robert AZ wrote:

"Terrence-- Wrong As Always
"I'm being serious. the only way to make the bible condemn homosexuality is to turn to non-biblical texts." So every serious scholar of scripture for two thousand years is wrong and Terrence is right. Isn't it amazing how wise we are today compared with the rest of time?"


Robert, as we already discussed on another day, you are kidding yourself. Whether homosexuality is a sin has been in dispute from the very beginning of the church. This is a matter of known church history.

If you know the truth and continue to report a lie you are a deceiver. My guess is that you are afraid to debate the truth because you know you will lose, so you continue to propagate a lie.

Who the heck is this person?
I've never heard of this Perez person up until two weeks ago and now his name is all over the place. I watched a debate between he and Dennis Prager on one of the news channels and it was like watching a chimpanzee debate Albert Einstein. Why Prager would even waste his time debating this idiot is beyond me. He could barely speak, let alone communicate a coherent thought.

Where are Jackson and Sharpton?
If Julea Ward is at a point in the counseling program where she is seeing patients than she has been in school at least five-six years. One has to earn a bachelor's degreee prior to entering a counseling program. From there, one earns a master's degree and moves into counseling under supervision. In California, students must counsel under supervision for some 3000 hours and take a state licensing test. I would assume other states have similar requirements. My question is how is it Julea Ward got this far in the counseling program and is now supposedly unqualified?

Unless this was Julea's first client, she had already showed success in counseling patients up until this point. That is why the school's position rings false. Also, a good family friend is a counselor. He often refers patients to other counselors. Why, because good counselors know when a patient needs something he/she is not qualified to address and/or the patient/counselor relationship is not a good fit. Just like one doctor cannot cure all a patient's illnesses, counselor's cannot address every patient need. This is not hypocrisy, discrimination, or a lack of ethics. On the contrary, it is good stewardship of one's profession.

My final question is where are Jackson, Sharpton, Oprah, and the usual crowd who should be having a cow over a black student being kicked out of a college program because she stood on principle protecting her beliefs?


Quit with the dishonest analogies
Comparing Julea's right to refer the client before she had even seen them for a first consultation is NOT remotely comparable to a MEDICAL Dr. refusing to treat a homosexual patient in a life-threatening situation simply because they're homosexual. That's comparing apples to oranges on more than one level.

Julea has nothing PERSONAL against homosexuals. She was more than willing to counsel them about a plethora of issues, except just one--their romantic relationship. That's because she would either have to deny her own conscience by giving them advice on how to stay in an illegitimate relationship, thereby accepting and condoning their behavior, or else she would have to advise them to leave the relationship, which would probably have gotten her into even more trouble.

So basically what homosexuals and those who advocate for the normalization of their lifestyle are trying to do is box everyone in who doesn't ACCEPT what they believe is right and normal and to create scenarios where if you disagree, you're damned if you do, and damned if you don't. That is not freedom, (nor is it tolerant of other people's viewpoints.) We all still have the freedom to disagree and to refrain from acting in ways that violate our own consciences. That's the way it has been, and still is. That's the way it should remain, and I hope that most will agree and be willing to fight for the right to keep it that way.

Criminal Charges or Class Action Suit
In the past there's been a certain degree of deference to suing schools, but seriously- this is criminal. I wouldn't mind in the slightest if these administration people spent several months (or years) in prison. Especially this last guy who issued his "open-minded" challenge to students. What if he was telling girls, "hey, try to be a little more open to fraternity boys?" What a freak. If that's not sexual harassment what is? At what point do we identify that they've drawn a line in the sand, cried out "toe the line!" and have proceeded to pummel us in the face?

Swampfox
My friend, I hope that you are well and prosperous.

Sure is easy to Judge
Seeing as the Creator does the Judging


Swampfox writes: 9:54 PM EST
Oh, its so easy.
It is so darn easy to pass judgment upon those that find themselves to be homosexual. Is it really only their "behavior" that which you object?
======================

Yes, behavior of two men having sex is the most vile and disgusting behavior.

Its really sick, sick sick


Swampfox
there's a big difference. Remaining a celibate homosexual isn't sinful. It's bearing your cross.

Jeffery
If I were you, I would be wary of accepting anything Will says or be grateful for his support. He/she is a troll that fails to reply when his/her points are proven wrong but instead reverts to personal attacks OR simply disappears as he/she did earlier in this very thread.
Regarding your opinion here, I understand your points but I ask you. Is student counseling really a life threatening condition that a simple referral couldn't remedy as you attempt to do by comparing it to a doctor refusing treatmen? Isn't that why doctors take an oath? I have a problem seeing how this is life-threatening or even related. If it were life-threatening i would support your point. In this case I do not. It seems to me it comes down to the school's policy regarding homosexuality which should NOT be an issue at all. Believing in homosexuality's being right or wrong is a CHOICE, not an obligation as it clearly is here. Since when is it inappropriate to hold an opinion in this country? What's next? Will it next be a crime to prefer red over blue in car color because some group identifies with blue? Where does commonsense draw the line? When is enough, enough? I believe it's everyone's right to believe what they wish so long as they don't hurt anyone else. In THIS case no injury occured except to the counselor dismissed because HER right to not condone a behavior isn't deemed acceptable by the university.

Jeffrey, you're like the little kid who
keeps asking "why?"

If you want to improve your appearance when your head's in the sand, visit Goodwill first and buy some cheap feather boas. Glue the feathers to the seat of your pants.

Silly boy! That's all of the attention you're going to get from the adults - now run along and play.

Joe MI - are you a racist, or are you
logically challenged? Perhaps you just like to spout off without admitting to be an atheist.

indyconantidim "A homosexual cannot be saved unless he or she gives up the activity."

Joe's blow: That is like saying a black person can't be saved unless they [sic] bleach their skin white.


Does your straw man season his red herrings with non sequiturs?

Settle down Rich
So why is divorce a less serious sin?

OK, Jeffery - you keep piling on post
after post, but it took only a few of them before you removed all of our doubts. Can you not see how foolish and domineering you are? I guess not.

"Rich D., what do you think is worse, in Christ’s eyes: divorce or homosexual behavior?"

Homosexual behavior. I already gave you one reason and what you cite contains the other. Are you too dense to understand what Christ means when he says "one flesh"? Do you think that it means it is OK for a half a man to attempt to mate with another half of a man and pretend that they are complementary? That it is the biological way to mate?

"Haven't you read," [Jesus] replied, "that at the beginning the Creator `made them male and female,'

Is that beyond comprehension? Does it say male and male? Female and female? Is the natural design of the body beyond your ken?

Swampfox
"Is it really only their "behavior" that which you object?" Yes I've heard conservatives say many times "love the sinner but not the sin" but I believe this is wrong. The bible says "For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself." (Galatians 5:14, KJV) The problem is that these people who discriminate against the gay community and say "love the sinner not the sin" are thinking in a very hetero-centrist way.

Oh, its so easy.
It is so darn easy to pass judgment upon those that find themselves to be homosexual. Is it really only their "behavior" that which you object?

selling out God
If that is Ms. Ward’s belief then she should not be working for a public university.

From the transcript
Dr. Callaway: “Uh, I requested the hearing because of Ms. Ward’s, um, stated intention
to violate and to continue violating the American Counseling Association’s code of ethics. Uh, these violations are based on her stated unwillingness to intentionally and competently provide counseling services concerning relationship issues to clients who identify as gay.

Ms. Ward was assigned a client who identified as such, a gay client wanting, uh, to work in counseling on relationships. It was a returning client to the clinic. She called and asked that I reassign the client, which I did. Um, I explained to her that
this was a violation of the ethical codes. The specific violations are in section A of the counseling relationship, A.1., which speaks to the welfare of those served by counselors. Their primary responsibility being to respect the dignity and promote the welfare of clients, avoiding harm and imposing values, uh, also in section A, A.4.b., personal values. Counselors are aware of their own values, attitudes, beliefs and behaviors and avoid imposing values that are inconsistent with counseling those. Counselors respect the diversity of clients and Section C, professional responsibility, knowledge of standards. Counselors have a responsibility to read, understand and follow the ACA code of ethics and adhere to applicable laws and regulations. Section C.5., non-discriminations. Counselors will not condone or engage in discrimination based on age, culture, disability, ethnicity, race, spirituality of religion, gender, gender identity, sexual orientation, marital status, partnership and language preferences.

“… she questioned the ACA’s authority, uh, to regulate her behavior in that way and as close as I can recall, the conversation was, “Well who’s the ACA to tell me what to do. I answer to a higher power and I’m not selling out God.” Um… and the “selling out God” is a… is a quote, specifically.

give me a break

indyconantidim "A homosexual cannot be saved unless he or she gives up the activity."

That is like saying a black person can't be saved unless they bleach their skin white.

Pretty simple, Jeffrey
A homosexual cannot be saved unless he or she gives up the activity. No one can judge if the adulterer or divorced will continue their sinfulness on a regular basis. For the homosexual there are no doubts unless they admit to abstinence.

One More Try, Jeffrey
"But ok, Christians, I’m all ears. Why is it ok to refuse to serve a homosexual but completely ok to serve adulterers or divorced people or any number of other people who have sinned?" First, nothing you say is true. She did not refuse to serve a homosexual, but refused to help a homosexual have more sexual activities. She was more than willing to work with a homosexual on non-sexual issues. As a counselor, I have worked with homosexuals, adulterers, and people who were divorced. I would not counsel and empower people to commit adultery, divorce for no good reason, or engage in homosexual activities any more than I would help a Stormfront organizer recruit Nazis or a serial flasher develop better technique. I question if any responsible therapist would. Now that you have a clear, logical answer, you will of course not post any more nonsense. As if.
"

katapatate
She wasn’t asked to lie about anything. Did you read my post to Candy, third paragraph? Ms. Ward wants to tell homosexuals that gay relationships are immoral because the Bible says so. She does not want to similarly condemn those who are getting or planning to get a divorce, or who are in adulterous affairs, or any other biblical sin. Her teachers asked her and she said she wouldn’t have a problem counseling anybody else who was committing a biblical sin. Just homosexuals.

She has chosen one biblical “sin” and decided that she cannot serve those who practice it. She violates her own religion by judging others, instead of helping them. But yet she wants to hide behind Christianity so she can practice her dislike of homosexuals? Gimme a break. She chose a helping profession. She is supposed to be focused on helping solve problems, not changing people who don’t meet her religious beliefs. She is totally unsuited to the field of therapy, obviously.

She needs to find an occupation where her homophobia isn’t an issue. Maybe working at McDonald’s, for instance. She certainly can’t be in a helping profession if she has pre-judged her potential clients.

But ok, Christians, I’m all ears. Why is it ok to refuse to serve a homosexual but completely ok to serve adulterers or divorced people or any number of other people who have sinned?

Tolerance
"We must be tolerant of all people, both good and bad." --Stalin

Of course we all know that Stalin was a master of creating the myth of his tolerance, while he had millions murdered. Curious how liberals constantly preach tolerance while tolerating very little themselves, isn't it? Of course Stalin was a hero to many of the left. After all he helped the "little guy."

Candy
"Actually, Julea Ward is willing to counsel homosexuals about any other issues they may be having. She is only unwilling to offer RELATIONSHIP advice," Exactly right. The specific counseling sought affirmed and promoted homosexual behavior-- and that's what gays really want-- affirmation and promotion of their deviance. Jeffrey talks about being willing to counsel adulterers or the divorced, and that therefore it is personal and not religious. The obvious difference is that a counselor who helped a person who wanted to affirm or practice adultery would be well within their rights.

Perez Hilton
"Perez Hilton, would be a great stand in, as Barack Obama's Press Secretary, when they finally fire the creep, who is posing as a Press Secretary now.
Hilton will fit in perfectly, he doesn't know what he is talking about, and would be a great addition to the clueless White House's General Staff.
They better get him while they can, because, I hear that Venezuela, is trying to get him.

I've got an honest question
Why do sodomites want everyone to know what they do to each other? Heck, they show it off at parades. I don't discuss my sexlife with anyone. You would not know what sexual orientation I am if I came into an office for a job or anything else. Why do sodomites every conversation lead with how they do it? Just shut up already and live your life. I have lived around sodomites all my life and quite frankly when I found out someone was a sodomite I was very surprised because they kept their sexlife private don't you see. I find it is a much nicer relationship with everyone if their sexlives don't come up at every opportunity.

HongKongCharlie
Here ya go folks, read it and weep. The hormone patch to cure homosexuality in the womb is just around the corner.

http://www.albertmohler.com/blog_read.php?id=891

As I suspected for years, just a hormone imbalance.

HKC

Jeffrey
You are asking Ms. Ward to lie if she had to say the sodomite lifestyle was morally correct. Since she does not believe that, why should she have to say it? It would be like you getting a job and being told that there is only one God, Jesus Christ and you have to say it is correct. Since I get the idea you are definitely not a Christian, I bet you would have a hard time accepting that.

tolerance vs. acceptance
The columnist is right when he wrote that homosexuals don't just want tolerance, they want us to approve of their lifestyle. Sorry, sodomites, I don't approve of your lifestyle. While you can do what you will behind your closed bedroom doors, I don't want to tell my children that sodomy is fine with me. I don't want it promoted in our schools, I don't want it demanded of me that I accept you. I will tolerate you, just as you should tolerate those who believe differently from you. Note to those who use the words homophobe, homophobic or any derivative thereof, please find a new argument. Namecalling doesn't work here at townhall. We discuss things here, not namecall. If you can tell me why the sodomite lifestyle is good and healthy than you may try. Why do you want to marry when you cannot procreate? That is what marriage was intended for.

Candy
It’s one thing when a patient seeks a counselor with certain characteristics. It’s quite a different thing when a counselor seeks patients with certain characteristics. And that’s where this problem lies. Medical professionals are supposed to be able to solve problems, regardless of personal characteristics of the patient. I would hope that you could see that it’s a problem if, say, an emergency room doctor refuses to act to save the life of a gay man injured in a car accident, for religious reasons.

Why should someone seeking professional medical help be told that he or she can’t be helped for some discriminatory reason? Does Ms. Ward plan to avoid all relationship therapy or just gay relationship therapy? If she learned couples therapy, then she learned couples therapy. She didn’t learn Christian couples therapy, to the exclusion of Jewish couples therapy, did she?

“In a letter she read during her disciplinary hearing, Ward said she believes that “God ordained relationships between men and women,” and that people should “strive to cultivate sexual desires for persons of the opposite sex.” She is, she said, “morally obligated … to express the biblical viewpoint regarding proper sexual relationships” in the course of her counseling work.

It is not true, as Ward’s lawsuit alleges, that either EMU or the ACA prohibit counselors “from advising clients that they can refrain from homosexual conduct.” What the school and the association both say is that counselors may not offer such advice unless the client expresses a desire to make such a life change.

EMU and the ACA do not, as Ward claims, “affirm homosexual conduct.” They consider it morally and therapeutically neutral. It’s not worthy of praise, and it’s not a problem to be solved. It’s just a fact.

Ward was expelled because she repudiates this fundamental therapeutic premise, and in so doing rejects a basic ethical tenet of the profession she wishes to practice.”

Speaking Truth to Power
Speaking Truth to Power: the Julea Ward Story.

To truetolife

"Swampfox
How do you know these people were not celibate such as yourself?" - truetolife

I guess that you are referring to K. McGillis and David O. Steirs. First I don't care if they are celibate or not, second why would it matter? And, from what I have read they aren't. Did you read the full article about the need for High School counselors?



Swampfox
How do you know these people were not celibate such as yourself?

Jeffrey, you're wrong about the details
Actually, Julea Ward is willing to counsel homosexuals about any other issues they may be having. She is only unwilling to offer RELATIONSHIP advice, which is why she referred the client to a different counselor BEFORE she even met with the client. So the client was not even inconvenienced in any way, and had the opportunity to meet with a counselor whose belief system was more in accordance with their own. Personally, if I needed advice or counseling on a romantic relationship, I would prefer to be counseled by a female, since I am one, and also by a heterosexual female, again since I am one. It would only make sense to me that I would get the best advice from someone who can relate to my situation and experiences. If I were seeking financial counseling, then it probably wouldn't matter.

Douglas
From your 4:11 p.m. post: "Almost 200 comments on this homophobic rant of a column. Rediculous!"

So is your spelling!

western
the point is, as is so often the case, this is not a religious objection but a personal one. Ward doesn't mind treating adulterers or divorcees. Her religion also forbids those behaviors. The school rejected her personal distaste for homosexuals as inappropriate to a counselling environment.

Interesting article about HS Couselors
High school counselors say they lack skills to assist gay, lesbian students (1/12/2005)

by Martin Wood

The majority of school counselors in Indiana want more help from public schools and local communities to assist gay and lesbian teens during the often traumatic teen years, says a new study from Ball State University.

In a statewide survey of 118 high school and middle school counselors, Ball State health educator Martin Wood found that only 14.4 percent claim to possess adequate skills to assist gay and lesbian students deal with their problems. An overwhelming majority of counselors wanted access to more training and educational programs.

For the rest of the article go to: http://www.bsu.edu/news/article/0,1370,-1019-29067,00.html

Jeffrey
"Dugger pointed to the Bible's commandments and/or prohibitions against killing, lying and stealing."
------------
Nobody is asking Ward to affirm these three sins as acceptable moral behavior. They are asking her to accept homosexuality as acceptable moral behavior. Thats why she might have a problem with it.

Had there been some prochoice group pushing aboriton rights and that she needs to affirm abortion as "morally acceptable behavior" to be part of the program, then my guess is she might have a problem with counseling women in abortion/pregnancy scenarios.

western bondbeam
What evidence do you have that gay people were involved in this dispute? The local newspaper said a unanimous faculty vote resulted in Ward’s expulsion. Were they gay faculty members? Was the EMU dean who affirmed their decision also gay?

Ward also said that there were no other biblically prohibited behaviors that she couldn’t overlook in terms of counseling, just homosexuality. What a surprise. It’s just the “special sin” of homosexuality, coincidentally so disgusting to the overwhelmingly heterosexual population, that must be defended against. Go ahead and commit all the adultery and divorce you want though, we have nooooooooo problem with those people say the “Christians.”

Rich D., what do you think is worse, in Christ’s eyes: divorce or homosexual behavior? He didn’t even mention homosexuality, yet clearly prohibits divorce in all but the most specific circumstances. He says that rich people will have a hard time getting into Heaven, yet you’ll never hear a Christian condemn the accumulation of wealth, at least not in America. Heck, American Christians have convinced themselves that God actually WANTS them to be rich!

Rule 0
“...there are three points worth highlighting in rule form:

“1) The university has ‘official’ beliefs and uses the authority of the state to enforce them.

“2) The belief that homosexuality can be changed is not among them. Hence, it cannot be expressed.

“3) The belief that traditional religious views can be changed is a state-sanctioned belief. The state may act upon this belief in accordance with rule #1.”

Actually there is a fourth that precedes the other three [call it number 0]:

0) Human knowledge in the social studies is now complete; therefore, rules 1 through three follow.

Well, I'll just add another, thanks
Douglas wrote:
"Almost 200 comments on this homophobic rant of a column. Rediculous!"

-- Well, if the homosexualists would shut up and stop trying to bully all the rest of us, there would be no 200 comments, because there would have been no "homophobic" (read rational) column.

And by the way, it would help if we flush the insipid term "homophobe" down the toilet, where it belongs.

It is time.

There is no such thing as a "homophobe."

The word "homo" means "same" in Greek, and "phobos" means "fear."

"Fear" of the "same"? The same what? The same stupidity that afflicts post-modernists across every other sphere of life?

And who "fears" these sodomite perverts anyway? We have "fear" because we call them what they are -- sick -- and rightly identify -- and condemn -- their practices as indecent, disgusting, unnatural and perverted?

No "fear" here.

Truth.

And THAT is what the homosexualist fears.

See, it's not religion
it's homophobia:

"However, in early March professors in the counseling department held a formal review hearing with Ward, citing the graduate student violated the code of ethics by discriminating against the student.

Dr. Suzanne Dugger, professor of counseling at EMU, said in previous conversations with her student, Ward denied there were any other issues that a client could bring into counseling that would result in her being unable to set aside her religious beliefs and refuse to see them.

Dugger pointed to the Bible's commandments and/or prohibitions against killing, lying and stealing.

"The fact that Ms. Ward asserted that she could set aside her religious values in all of these instances but expressed a belief that she could not set aside her religious values in order to effectively counsel non-heterosexual clients constitutes discrimination," Dugger said during the hearing.

In a unanimous decision by the formal review committee, Ward was dismissed from the counseling program for violating the code of ethics."

Jeffrey, read my previous post.
We don't condemn anything - the Scriptures condemn behaviors, not orientations.

Once you see that (if ever), you will also see that the Scriptures make us ALL look bad.

It's pretty misinformed of you to say what a tiny part of the faith is. Where sins are listed, especially to Gentiles, you will find bestiality and homosexual unions at the top of the list.

Jeffrey
"She got in trouble for not conforming to the rules of her program, which requires that she affirm that homosexuality is morally acceptable"
--------------
Earlier you said it wasnt about homosexual kow towing. If this aint about PC gayrights pressure tatics, what else would you label it?

What is odd is that a small minority of this country (you included) see absolutely nothing wrong with forcing students with conviction to simply abandon that foundation and conform to whatever moral reality EMU decides is best for its program . All without batting an eyelash.

....And the train rolls on by without a peep of protest....

Note that the article said "behavior",
not orientation. Big difference.

n
“You live in a strange universe where the first amendment rights are suspended at the borders of the university.”

I don’t think I’m the one who lives in a strange universe. How have her first amendment rights been suspended? If she’s a Christian who believes that it is a sin to have homosexual sex, well, who’s forcing her to have homosexual sex? If her program says she’s going to have to create an affirming environment for the most effective treatment of homosexuals, she’s going to have to meet their standards.

Now, if she were in the political science program, and proclaimed that she hated homosexuals, I doubt the university would have much to say on the matter. But she’s actually in a therapy/counseling program, where it’s crucial to be at least neutral about a person’s religion, race, sexual orientation, etc., in order to do a good job.

You guys are obsessed with condemning homosexuality, and acting like you’re being persecuted if you can’t. You forget that homosexuality is a tiny part of your faith. You just don’t like homos, and enjoy using your religion against them. It’s not working very well, and makes Christianity look bad.

Christians appear to believe that they get to live in a world where everyone conforms to their view. That simply isn’t the case.

To n
"Swamgas, [s]how us where it says a person cant be a therpaist if they wont treat gays." - n

I gave you a link to the ACA website on there ethics. I would suggest that you read it. I did not read the entire code of ACA ethics, but it is only 21 pages long.

I object to Mike Adams' article, from which I quote. "School officials dismissed a student, Julea Ward, from the school’s counseling program for not affirming homosexual behavior as morally acceptable. Julea is a black woman – in other words, someone who is a minority on the basis of biology. Unlike gays, Julea makes no effort to assert minority status on the basis of individual choice." Adams continues to assert that I made a choice to be homosexual. All I can do is assure everyone that there was no choice in my sexual orientation. In fact I had trouble in accepting it.



WILL'S PET EMU

.....WILL CA ...

.....My sources tell me that your latest trick is to hide acorns in your butt and then let your pet Emu root them out while you spank your monkey ...is this true? .....COLOSSUS

I had a most interesting discussion once
with a person of the 'homosexual preference.'

He said that the 'hate crimes laws' that were under consideration in his state would help protect him from harm.

I said they would also protect the pedophile.

He said that NOTHING should protect a pedophile.

Ah, but I said that it lists "SEXUAL ORIENTATION" as the "protected class" of people and THAT dear, homosexual friend, INCLUDES pedophiles!

Jeffrey
"But the university gets to make the rules. Not Julea Ward. If she can't meet the standards, she gets booted. sorry."
----------------------
Minor correction. You of course meant "If she cant LOWER her standards, she gets booted."


My late mother went to the physician
for her illness. However, she didn't know about a treatment to remedy her condition, hence didn't ask for it.

She died.

gee
Almost 200 comments on this homophobic rant of a column. Rediculous!

n
I don’t know what your problem is. You appear to think that there’s a special place for people to reject homosexuality. It is hard for Christians to accept but many of us do not hate homosexuals, or want to diminish them because of their sexual orientation.

No one is objecting to Julea Ward because she turned a client away. That is not the issue. She got in trouble for not conforming to the rules of her program, which requires that she affirm that homosexuality is morally acceptable, and also that she follow the code of ethics of the American Counselor’s Association. She failed in both regards. If she objected to these requirements, she should find a program with different requirements.

No one is forcing homosexuality on anyone. I don’t think it’s possible. You are not being forced to do anything by living in a society where homosexuals can live and love freely, in safety. Your hate or disapproval of gays (or blacks, or Hispanics, or whatever groups you hate or fear) is a personal experience. You do not have the right to be free from tolerating groups who have every right to be a part of society.

I didn't know there were SO MANY
'sexual orientations!'

I thought it was just whether you liked men or women. It isn't.

Girls - Same sex as you, or not - and age
Boys - Same sex as you, or not - and age
Animals - listed by animal
Inanimate objects - listed by object
Old - male or female: same as you or different
Young - male or female: same as you or different
Fat - male or female: same as you or different
Skinny - male or female: same as you or not
Amputees

And the list KEEPS GROWING!

And, the more you read, the SICKER you will feel. But, hey, it will be THEIR RIGHT to 'do as they wish.' And, you can't say a WORD against them..

Oh, the equity of the statist
Jeffrey wrote:
"She wants to use her position as a therapist to do God's work. Do you think that's appropriate?'

-- In some cases it may not be, in others it would be. If a theist wants to see a theist therapist, then yes, it's appropriate. Conversely, a nontheist or atheist should be able to go to a therapist in the confidence of not having to be subjected to religious views.

But the seeker is unlikely to be able to identify a suitable situation -- either way -- because the statist geniuses who oversee political correctness forbid promotion of professional services with exclusive reference to religious creed -- under pain of punishment for "discrimination."

Consider that e-Harmony is not "allowed" to restrict its services to heterosexuals -- even though we are guaranteed freedom of association under the Constitution -- for evidence that this is so.

Jeffrey wrote:
"Is that why someone goes to a therapist?"

--Again, some people, yeah. What's the problem?

Above all, remember: At this point, Ward is NOT a therapist. She's a STUDENT.

So any issues raised about compulsion or force are nothing but DUNG.

A student is NOT a practicing professional anyway. Right?

But why don't statists ever quit the CRAP, stop the hypocricy and tell the truth?

Jeffrey
You live in a strange universe where the first amendment rights are suspended at the borders of the university. If thats the case then you would have no problem with a university that denounced homosexuality as an evil to be wiped out...correct? Since universities are free from the constraints of the 1st amendment you should be in favor of this! Great! At least you are consistent.

Will
Oh Will. Where are you Will.

Jeffrey, you keep saying ...
that Ms Ward referred the client because they were gay. Then you say that she has stated that she believes that she is supposed to "cure" people as part of her faith. Well, if she really believe that she must "cure" the homosexual, why, pray tell, would she have referred them to someone else?

The truth is, she wasn't proslytizing or trying to convert someone to her faith, religion, or point of view. She had a client that needed counseling that was out of her purview. Ultimately, her actions displayed that she was willing to place the clients best interests above her religious convictions so that they could receive the best treatment THEY needed that she could not give. How does this make her a bad person or unqualified to be a therapst?

The truth is, you, and people like you, can't stand it when a person takes a moral stand based on their faith. You seek with all your might to have that person punished. Worst yet, you would have the person stripped of their ability to make a living at the profession of their choice simply because they don't fall into line with your world view. It's sick puppies like your left-leaning brethren that would love to make a public mockery of Ms Ward just as they have done Ms Prejean.

Yeah, you don't believe in torture, do you?

Tod Kozeluh
Lexington, KY

Merry
They have no reason. They yell so loudly about how everyone hates them becuase they are gay that it never occurs to them that they are disliked because they are jerks.

Jeffrey's Final Answer
"But the university gets to make the rules." And that settles it. Of course, if it was a conservative university setting the rules, he would be against it. Brilliant thinking.

swampgas
Show us where it says a person cant be a therpaist if they wont treat gays.

EMU makes the rules
DETROIT — School officials at Eastern Michigan University (EMU) dismissed a student from the school’s counseling program for not affirming homosexual behavior as morally acceptable. The school ousted Julea Ward from the program because she would not agree prior to a counseling session to affirm a client’s homosexual behavior and would not retract her stance in subsequent disciplinary proceedings.

EMU requires students in its program to affirm or validate homosexual behavior within the context of a counseling relationship and prohibits students from advising clients that they can change their homosexual behavior. Ward has never addressed homosexual behavior in any form during counseling sessions with clients.

“When a public university has a prerequisite of affirming homosexual behavior as morally good in order to obtain a degree, the school is stepping over the legal line," said ADF Senior Counsel David French.


But the university gets to make the rules. Not Julea Ward. If she can't meet the standards, she gets booted. sorry.

About Linxsay Lohan:
THIS IS WHAT SHE SAID:
"Lindsay Lohan, while speaking about her sexual orientation, said she was not a lesbian, but responded "Maybe. Yeah." when asked if she was bisexual. She then added, "I don't want to classify myself."

SHE DOES NOT CLASSIFY HERSELF AS LESBIAN!

Jeffrey
Let me go slowly for you...rules of conduct do not REQUIRE that any therapist accept and take on EVERY client that comes to their door. Do you not understand that. The rules of conduct are applicable to clients a therapist acccepts NOT to every person who wants treatment.

Why dont you just admit that all you care about is making people accept homosexuality as a "normal" lifestyle. You will force it on everyone and you will then expect that everyone will accept it without complaint.

ACA Code of Ethics
Here is a link to the ACA Code of Ethics. Have fun reading it.

http://www.counseling.org/Resources/CodeofEthics/TP/HOME/CT 2.aspx

Will and others who think like him...
This was not a column about gay marriage! I am a conservative and I could care less if gays marry. I, and others who think like me, are not your enemies; in fact, you would be wise to recognize that you are rapidly becoming ours. How? By your hyper sensitive knee jerk reactions and resulting hatred towards ANYONE writing or speaking on any subject that has the word "gay" or "homosexual" related to it.

The article is best summed up by, "And she knows that the First Amendment preserves our freedom to speak that which we believe as well as our freedom to not speak that which we do not believe." That is the gut of the article; it is about the right to believe what you want and act accordingly. Is that not what you ultimately want? I think you should have that right as much as this woman does. So what's your beef?

Your beliefs and principles are as sacred to you as mine are to me. However, when you attack anyone and everyone who does not agree with you, including me, your argument loses reason and with it, any chance for a meaningful debate or just simple understanding between people who do not agree. There are zealots on both sides of any issue; you won't change their minds by beating the rest of us over the head with your obvious hatred of them. How are you becoming my enemy? The same way as you believe I am yours, which I am not. You insist that I not only believe in my "live and let live" ideology but that I also endorse your beliefs. Would you feel it is right for the zealot to demand the same of you? I think not. Try chilling out and living the best life you can in spite of those who you think hate you. Most don't CARE one way or the other about your lifestyle. However, most believe in our right to believe and act on OUR personal principles much like you want to do with yours.

Almost didn't;
Mike; I almost didn't open you article simply because of Perez Hilton's name attached. We have been expose recently to much too much of Hilton's ranting. Trump is supposed to rule on Miss California tomorrow. I'm sure Hilton was chosen to judge the contest for the contradiction and publicity. Much as Joan Rivers and Annie were the finalist in Celeb. Apprentice. I only hope he gets it right. I really haven't watched Miss America since my grandfather was alive and Burt Parks was the host. I'm fifty-eight. I'm also leery of the homosexual life choices. Does that make me phobic?

Jeffrey
All of that is true and so BEFORE she even started therapy she referred it on to another therapist. She did not refer to "conversion" therapy as you call it she just referred onto another therapist.

She could never have imposed any values on anyone if she did not ever meet with anyone.

And anyone can refrain from a behavior Jeffrey that includes gays and heterosexuals all Ms Ward did was refer on to someone else.

And in none of your rantings do I see where the ACA disqualifies someone from being a therapist if they wont treat a particular population. The rules of conduct apply when a therapist takes on a client, if the therapist rightly denies taking on a client due to lack of objectivity then the rules you just oulined dont apply.

Let the courts settle it.
Let the courts settle this disagreement. It looks like Miss Ward is going to get free representation.



"Those silly queers. At least there are so few of them and they're killing off each other at an alarming rate too.....such are the consequences of a sinful lifestyle." - Truetolife

In the last two weeks two actors came out of the closet, Kelly McGillus (age around 51) and David Odgen Steirs (age around 65). I have a female friend whose parents were diagnosed with prostate cancer and breast cancer last week. Now what sin did these two people commit, living too long?

Also
"EMU requires that its counseling students adhere to the ACA code of ethics. It’s in the student handbook for the program."

Maybe Julea should become a minister!

OH PLEEEEEESE
The very notion the gays need or deserve exclusive protection against, "hate speach", or hate crimes is discriminatory! How many races are still being attacked both verbally and physically? Have we already forgotten the lynchings of the past and continued race typing issues? Or how about the hate speach currently against obese people. The last group apparently where it's acceptable to malign and use hateful speech against. When all groups are represented in the Hate Speech/Hate Crimes debacle I will take it seriously. Until then forget it! Gays are not suffering MORE than all the rest of us that are mistreated now and historically!

Will
2 questions. You mentioned the "gay agenda" a week or so ago. You really didnt tell us what that means. Let me ask you, is part of that agenda to lower the age of consent? Also Mass recently passed a law that says men who "feel" like they are women can use the womens rest rooms in public places. Is this also part of the agenda? If neither one is what is your personal opinion of both? Just wondering.

Jeffrey
Its sad but you have no legitimate argument in this debate yet you persist. You are a one note song and its out of key. Clearly Ms Ward does not need to find a new profession, gays need to find a new therapist.

I'm STILL waiting for the ACA citation. Until you come up wit hit you have no business saying anything.

Cross-species relationships
ARE recognized by the APA as being a

Sexual orientation

It is called:

Zoosexuality.

Well, Jeffy... I'm waiting...

The ACA
"ACA-certified counselors are not prohibited from referring clients for so-called “conversion” therapy — therapy designed to help someone who is gay become straight. They are discouraged from making such referrals, however, and they may not offer such therapy themselves, since the ACA has concluded that “research does not support [it] as an effective treatment modality.” In addition, they may not — and this is crucial – refer a client for such therapy in the absence of a client-initiated request for such a referral.

The ACA’s code of ethics states that counselors must “avoid imposing values that are inconsistent with counseling goals,” and the association’s statement on conversion therapy makes it clear that it does not consider “curing” homosexuality a legitimate counseling goal. “To refer a client to someone who engages in conversion therapy,” the ACA states, “communicates to the client that his/her same-sex attractions and behaviors are disordered and, therefore, need to be changed. This contradicts the dictates of the 2005 ACA Code of Ethics.”

It is not true, as Ward’s lawsuit alleges, that either EMU or the ACA prohibit counselors “from advising clients that they can refrain from homosexual conduct.” What the school and the association both say is that counselors may not offer such advice unless the client expresses a desire to make such a life change."

Jeffrey
"Julea Ward doesn’t just think homosexuals are weird or goofy, she thinks that they have to be CURED before therapy begins. " You have a reliable source for this? Please share.

Frog
"In a letter she read during her disciplinary hearing, Ward said she believes that “God ordained relationships between men and women,” and that people should “strive to cultivate sexual desires for persons of the opposite sex.” She is, she said, “morally obligated … to express the biblical viewpoint regarding proper sexual relationships” in the course of her counseling work."


What more do you need to know? She wants to use her position as a therapist to do God's work. Do you think that's appropriate? Is that why someone goes to a therapist?

Marry My Glock
Wow, Tacitus X... (5/11/09 @3:23 pm EST) I wanna marry my Model 21 and our thousand kids!!!

Robert in AZ
“As soon as the university disqualifies all people who think that all religious belief is a mental problem, fairness has been achieved. Until then, it's blatant discrimination.”

They absolutely should expel anyone training in a helping profession who believes people of faith are inherently flawed, AND MUST BE FIRST CURED OF THEIR RELIGIOUS BELIEFS, before therapy of the real problem can proceed. That’s what Julea Ward believed: that homosexuals have to be cured of homosexuality first, before therapy can proceed.

Julea Ward doesn’t just think homosexuals are weird or goofy, she thinks that they have to be CURED before therapy begins. I think she’s the one who needs therapy. She’s defining the problem to be cured, even if the patient doesn’t believe it’s a problem. She would have been a horrible therapist, that’s for sure.

"Marriage" in the future
I can't wait until someone applies for a license to "marry" his automatic weapon and ammo and demand that it's legality be recognized nationwide! :o)

*sigh*
Those silly queers. At least there are so few of them and they're killing off each other at an alarming rate too.....such are the consequences of a sinful lifestyle.

Will
Instead of trying to dazzle us with your BS why dont you impress us with your knowledge of exactly what Dr Adams deleted, omitted or otherwise kept us from knowing.

You are right, Edwin
The practices of homosexuals are unspeakably vile.

Will

I do not force my religionus beliefs on anyone nor do I choose to do so. (Just ask Mellor). My point is that we have conflicting rights butting heads.

You have a right to gay sex and, further, you know my position on gay marriage; i.e., I believe that the state should not be in the marriage business since it is a traditionally religious institution. Civil Unions should be for all and represent Step 1. If people want the religious icing on their wedding cakes, then they should find a church to perform a non-binding "marriage" ceremony, which is Step 2.

My goodness, this has been happening in Europe for centuries. When my sister married her French husband, they went through the two-step process.

BTW: You never did answer my question relative to triads. Should two lesbians get to marry their male sex partner? I understand that this has been happening in Hawaii.

Jeffrey
I am STILL waiting for the ACA citation that says a person cant be a therpaist if they choose not to treat a particular population!!!! How long should I wait?????

Ron @ 2:25, based on your post...
can you please explain identical twins where one is gay and the other is not? There are reported cases, so I'm sure you have an answer. Please, enlighten us.

Tod Kozeluh
Lexington, KY

Jeffrey sez . . .
: . . . But we’re not talking about Julea Ward’s qualification to treat homosexuality, or her comfort level with it. The issue here is, Julea Ward thinks that homosexuality is ALWAYS a problem..." and the therapists I mention think exactly the same about people with strong religious beliefs. There's no difference.
As soon as the university disqualifies all people who think that all religious belief is a mental problem, fairness has been achieved. Until then, it's blatant discrimination.

people, people, people,

we should all know by now that leftists are incapable of reasoned debate.

Instead of responding to their nonsense, maybe we would be better off spending our time on how to counteract the left's push for power.

For example, are their changes needed in America that we can all agree with. Another example, if we can all agree on the needed changes how do we go about joining together to become an effective political force for change.

Some changes I am particularly in favor of are:

1. Prohibiting tax dollars for education going to anyone besides a lawful parent or guardian of a child.

2. Outlawing the income tax and replacing it with the Fair Tax.

3. Outlawing group health care plans. Outlawing a health insurer charging different amounts for the same coverage.

4. Outlawing the tracking of gun ownership and the need for government approval before buying a gun.

5. Requiring all elected and appointed federal officials to provide copies of their original birth certificates.

6. Outlawing acts of same-sex sodomy.

I am sure there are more that we can agree on or at least not allow to become impediments to a united front to confront the leftists.

Responding to leftists' nonsense is not very productive.

Justin:
Mike Adams routinely doesn't present the whole story.

That's his schtick.

He adroitly covers and camouflages and obfuscates the issues in order to present the christian-based side of the story.

That's why some of his zaniest columns are contorted like pretzels to detract you from what really happened.

Everybody here knows it's best to google the facts and get several third parties views of the incidents. Nobody takes Adams' columns straight. He stacks the deck by giving you only anti-gay, anti-feminist, anti-atheist stories to start out with. And then further stacks the deck by obscuring and re-focusing and camouflaging the details.

That's his schtick.

That's how Mike rolls.

Jeffrey, do you have ANY idea ...
what the person was seeking help for when they went to see Ms Ward? I ask for two reasons: first, I do not know. It may be common knowledge but I haven't followed the case close enought to know. Second, I ask just to point out the fact that we KNOW the person was gay. If the persons "gayness" was not an issue for which they were seeking help, the therapist would not have known they were gay, would they?

BECAUSE Ms Ward knew the client was gay, the person's sexual proclivities MUST have been at least a part of the reason for seeking counseling. Why else would it have come up? All your theories and hypothesis are for naught because the clients homosexuality was a part of the discussion.

Any good doctor, counselor, or friend would do their best to see that a patient/friend would get the best care possible from someone with expertise in the area needing care. I didn't got to gynecologist when I had a miniscus tear and needed my knee scoped.

Try again.

Tod Kozeluh
Lexington, KY

Agent Crawfish
You are seriously deficient in your understanding of the obligations of helping professionals. Being judgmental about a potential patient, because of race, religion, gender, age, sexual orientation, and the list goes on, is a really big problem. You don’t treat someone based on whether you like his religion or not.

Religion, for instance, may play a role if someone is struggling with issues of guilt. Certainly a therapist has to delve into how a Catholic upbringing, for example, might have resulted in feelings of guilt. But no reputable therapist rejects treating a patient for a problem religious or not, because that patient is a Catholic. It’s seriously unethical, and calls into question the therapist’s ability to serve patients without prejudice.

Jeffrey
Do you REALLY believe the more you repeat something the more likely it is to be true? Gays think if they keeping saying their "lifestyle" is normal then it is like you keep saying:
"You’d be up in arms if a Jewish therapist said he first must address a Christian’s misguided religious beliefs before he can help him with his other problems" Thats not the case at all but you keep repeating it! The point is no therapist is expected to treat someone whom they believe they can not deal with objectively. What dont you get??????????

Tadpole
Denise Re Post #100
While we are in agreement in principle it is unfortunate that you felt compelled to call me a 'moron' for making a simple mistake.

Are you always so hostile to those you agree with?

The Moron



I am glad that we are in agreement and I am sorry that I called you a moron, but you did criticize me FIRST.

You are not a moron. It is a simple case of misunderstanding.

Top o' the afternoon for you!

The agenda of the same-sex sodomites

is hatred and destruction of all that is good.

'nuf said.

Oh brother
You guys are in serious need of therapy LOL!

Robert says: “Many therapists recuse themselves from treating problems they are not comfortable with.”

I’m sure that’s true. Therapists have to be sure they’re properly qualified to treat a particular problem, and comfortable in doing so. But we’re not talking about Julea Ward’s qualification to treat homosexuality, or her comfort level with it. The issue here is, Julea Ward thinks that homosexuality is ALWAYS a problem, whether the gay patient thinks so or not. She’s addressing HER issue, not the patient’s. And that’s the crux of why the university correctly threw her out. She wants to save homosexuals, or at least not have to deal with them if they won’t let her “fix” them. That’s a really, really bad attitude for a person aspiring to be in a helping profession.

A therapist does not address issues unrelated to what the patient wants to address. Forget for a second that there’s no medical basis to “fix” homosexuality anyway. Homosexuality is a religious problem, not a medical one.

You people are such hypocrites. You’d be up in arms if a Jewish therapist said he first must address a Christian’s misguided religious beliefs before he can help him with his other problems.

Don't know the whole story
The whole story isn't presented in this column, it can't be, there just isn't enough space. From what I gather, the university REQUIRES all students in this program to specifically handle a homosexual individual where it is the job of the therapy student to outright affirm the preference. What exactly does this have to do with therapy? Nothing, it's just another BS Michigan PC stunt, and they don't have a great track record on this (see the affirmative action lawsuit a few years back that they lost).

Also, marriage is just a term and gays can obtain just about every "beneift" through private contracts, which is all marriage in America has turned into, a financial contract. This isn't going to destroy the fabric of the nation. You can't stop gays from living together and marriage is nothing but a word describing something that anyone can engage in without using the word.

Denise Re Post #100
While we are in agreement in principle it is unfortunate that you felt compelled to call me a 'moron' for making a simple mistake.

Are you always so hostile to those you agree with?

The Moron

Some Therapists I have Known
. . . believe all adherence to religion is itself a mental problem. How effective would they be in incorporating the patient's spiritual life with their recovery? How honest could they be in counseling a pastor who was suffering from any mental problem? And these are real examples, not some imagined case, like don't like fat people. This is about basic values.

After Being certified for 36 years,
. . . I can definitely say that Jeffrey's statements are inaccurate. Many therapists recuse themselves from treating problems they are not comfortable with. For examples, victims of a given crime are well advised not to treat perpetrators of same. Jeffrey thinks that a Jewish Holocaust survivor should be able to treat Nazis or lose his license. Obviously, Jeffrey has never had certification as a therapist.

Jeffrey's Straw Man
You've repeated thrown up the straw man argument that asks us to "replace gays with Christians."

OK let's do that.

Do I have any problem whatsoever with a therapist telling me they can't help me out because they have personal issues dealing with Christians? ... No. In fact pretty much any Christian I know would be greatful for the honesty and ask for the name of someone who might be able to help.


Jeffrey
" It is about being able to perform therapy without regard to the personal circumstances of the patient."
-------------
Please explain to us all how a therapist is supposed to perform therapy while at the same time disregarding ("without regard")personal circumstances of their patient.

Frog
“What Jeffrey, du(H) and the like ... are telling us is that there is no room for conscientious objection.”

What’s the objection? Unless the patient is asking for help to advance his homosexuality, what is there to object to? A gay guy comes to a therapist for help dealing with his arachnophobia. How does his homosexuality have anything to do with treating this problem? How is it moral for a healer to reject a patient in need? I mean, who’s the immoral person here, the therapist or the homosexual patient?

The problem with what Julea Ward did was she said she was obligated to address a potential patient’s homosexuality first, before addressing the real problem, or refer him to someone else. Sorry, that’s not how therapy works. If the patient doesn’t have a problem with being gay, there’s nothing to solve. The therapist is a quack, trying to solve a problem that SHE wants to solve, but the PATIENT doesn’t.

What would happen if she had been his therapist for a year, making strong progress toward helping him with his arachnophobia, and then she finds out he’s gay? Does she withdraw treatment? Should he have to start over with someone else?

Again (why do I bother?!), pretend a Christian went to a therapist who decided that the Christian had to be relieved of his Christian beliefs before his alcoholism could be addressed. That’s a prejudicial belief on the part of the therapist. Julia Ward demonstrated she doesn’t have the capacity required of any healer: put the patient’s needs first, not the healer’s.

Joe #21 and Dr. Druhl #37
Thank you for that historical perspective and progression of decay. I would add to "endorse" the equally sinister "promote", by way of the education and media establishment.

The homosexual agenda is never satisfied with their initial gains in acceptance. Like a shark, once they sense weakness in their opponents, they forge ahead with more demands. Worse yet, they couch their struggle as a "civil right" on par with the immutable race-based rights.

Jeffrey
YOU ARE AN IDIOT!!! Any reputiable therapist will exactly look at the person AND the issue and if they can not treat that person for WHATEVER reason they MUST referit on. NOT TREATING A PARTICULAR GROUP DOES NOT I repeat DOES NOT DISQUALIFY SOMEONE FROM BEING A THERAPIST!!! Do you understand that moron!!!!!

I am STILL waiting foe the ACA citation that says a person is disqulaified from being a therapist if they decide not to treat a particular group. In fact the OPPOSITE is true isnt it Jeffrey? If a therapsit cant oe wont see a particular population it is there duty to referit on.

Consider this
In the nose of each person is a tiny opening going to a small gland called the Vomero Nasal Organ, or V.N.O.
The V.N.O. detects pheromones given off by human skin.
Pheromones are the catalyst that causes attraction between humans-Cupid’s arrows.
In heterosexual people, the V.N.O. detects opposite-sex pheromones, male to female, female to male.
In homosexual people, the V.N.O. detects same-sex pheromones, male to male, female to female.
In bisexual people, the V.N.O. detects all human pheromones

The only difference between heterosexual people, homosexual people, and bisexual people is the pheromones detected by the V.N.O. This difference occurs chemically before birth; and is in place upon birth. It could be considered a birth defect. This is why VNO-same children are confused at puberty.

This is a tiny physical difference, not a sin, not a choice, not a preference, not a disease, not a lifestyle, not an orientation.

One last time
Well, at least for a while:

This student was removed from a therapy training program because she announced she could not treat a specific group of people, in this case, homosexuals. Her objection could be personal, it could be religious, it doesn’t matter. Therapists are trained to treat problems. Those problems are independent of who the patient is. Their solutions are not based on a patient’s personal characteristics but rather on the nature of the problem the patient has. It is fundamental that a therapist have the ability to treat a patient without regard to the patient’s personal characteristics. There’s no getting around it.

Again, imagine if a therapist said he couldn’t treat Christians. That would be crazy, right? We don’t associate a need for therapy with one’s religion, do we? What about race? Dress size? If a student identifies a group of people whom he or she won’t help, their commitment to the field of therapy is suspect. Why should a school waste resources training someone who, from the get go, is not committed to performing the work he or she is being trained for?

Now please return to your normally scheduled gay-bashing.

Denise,
If you wish to follow Christ, by all means, do so in private. Follow away.

But evangelicals don't have a right to foist Biblical Law (especially cherry-picked nuggets of wisdom culled from Leviticus) onto the general population.

The U.S. Supreme Court has decided, definitively, in "Lawrence v. Texas", 2003, that gay sex will be decriminalized. Meaning, effectively, gay sex is every bit as legal as hetero-sex.

Period. That's your answer. The U.S. Constitution MUST TRUMP LEVITICUS.

That's your answer.


Leviticus, with its prohibitions against shellfish and cutting facial hair and gay sex and mixed fabrics and not circumsizing infants IS NOT LAW. Any of it.

Worship in private. You have that right. Don't eat pork. I'm not forcing you. But I don't want evangelicals, Mormons, Scientologists, Muslims or mother-earth cults foisting their religious texts to try and supercede the U.S. Supreme Court.

I rest my case.

western bondbeam
“Nothing has shown that Ward was unable to perform her duty.”

False. A therapist who cannot separate her own personal feelings about a client cannot perform therapy. This isn’t about being “PC” or kowtowing to the “gay agenda.” It is about being able to perform therapy without regard to the personal circumstances of the patient.

The problem is, in this particular case, the woman’s prejudice was toward gays. So of course it gets press from the right wing; she’s another “Christian victim” to add to the list of casualties of militant homosexuals.

But what you’re not seeing are the articles about therapy students who reveal that they don’t want to help obese people (“they’re just gross!”) or Jews (“they let the Romans kill our Lord!”) or black people (“they are shifty troublemakers and don’t deserve help!”). Those students, too, are being kicked out of therapy programs. And well they should be.

If someone brings a car in for repair, the personal characteristics of the owner are irrelevant. And so it is medical care or mental therapy or massage therapy for that matter: address the issue and ignore who has the issue.

What Jeffrey, du(H) and the like ...
are telling us is that there is no room for conscientous objection. This is exactly what we will have when O and his democratic posse (U instead of O ?) will give us with FOCA. The Freedom of Choice Act will prohibit doctors from declining to perform abortions if they have moral objections to the procedure. Just watch. The same thing will happen to hospitals that happened to Catholic adoption agencies in The Peoples Republic of Massachussettes. Many hospitals, some of which were founded by Christians, will be forced to close their doors if don't submit to the edicts of government. Ultimately, this is result of liberal ideology and their war people of faith.

Tod Kozeluh
Lexington, KY

Jeffrey's Main Tactic
. . . is accusing his opponents of weird motivations. When you deny that any such nonsense was intended, he then moves on to accusations of hypocrisy. One wonders where his obsession with divorce and adultery comes from-- somewhere dark, no doubt.

Jeffrey in MI
You've been postulating moral relativism as the basis of "counseling" all day long. It's stupid beyond belief. Counseling of any kind is useless without recourse to ethical abslolutes.

You sir, are an amoral moron.

well, now a thought
Ask Jeffrey from MI how a counselor would deal with a traumatized person who had just witnessed a couple of Jeffrey types doing the brokeback mountain tango in a public potty. Is a counselor supposed to say how righteous an event it is?

"AFA-Michigan President Gary Glenn, Midland, also urged local school officials to suspend an assistant principal and a teacher who are among those men arrested in recent weeks for soliciting homosexual activity at the park.

In a comments published Friday by the Flint Journal, Sheriff Pickell was criticized by Jeff Montgomery, executive director of the Triangle Foundation, a Detroit homosexual advocacy group that claims law enforcement efforts to curb homosexual activity in public parks and restrooms — known as “cruising” — amount to “entrapment” and “unfairly harass(ing)” men who use public parks for such illegal activity. (link)

Glenn said Montgomery’s attack on Pickell “reveals a callous disregard for the life-threatening personal and public health consequences of anonymous multi-partner homosexual activity in public parks and restrooms used by families.”

“We’re confident most parents are very grateful that Sheriff Pickell believes families and children should be free to go to a public park or restroom without being exposed to illegal public displays of homosexual activity and the severe public health risks that result,” Glenn said."

well, now ask Jeffrey of MI if he approves of what this Jeff Montgomery of MI of the triangle teabaggers of motor city, publicly stated about this.

How would a counselor handle these victims?

reminds me of the time...
I sat in a graduate course in economic development (very small summer class) in a public university where the professor and the two other students, who happened to be an ex-minister and a high school teacher and coach, "encouraged" me to be more sympathetic to the plight of convicted pedophiles. My classmate-teacher brought in an article about trying to "zone" them out of a local community by increasing the distance they had to live from a school, park, etc. It was the last class I attended. I assume I flunked, because I also left the program. Didn't feel like spending 1/15 of my tuition for an economic development course on that kind of discussion.

Your Atheism Is Showing, Jeffrey
"I’ll bet there are Christian therapists who routinely treat patients who have committed adultery, divorce, taken the Lord’s name in vain, murdered, coveted, dishonored parents and the Sabbath, etc. It’s only when the topic of homosexuality comes up that Christians suddenly become rigidly faithful. Very odd."


What is strange is that an Atheist believes he knows Christianity. Please, Christians, like all humans, are sinners. They are instructed to FOLLOW Christ because #1) it will make their lives easier; #2) and, in some religions, it is the way to salvation; i.e., acts and deeds purchase redemption.

Jeffrey
Nothing has shown that Ward was unable to perform her duty. The problem is that had she performed her duty, the client was going to cry "Bigot" to drooling wolves anyway.

Ward chose instead to muzzle herself (probably under great pressure) and allow another take over for her. In the end she did what was best for the client. The school viewed this as wrong and thus here we are having a silly discussion about the current state of wonderland and the path we are headed down.

By that I mean the "future" Wards that will no longer feel confident in their positions for fear of losing their job if they dont meet the current PC criteria for handling their client's fragile "needs" .

We are already there now as silent do nothings let the train roll down the track without a peep of protest or care.

Robert in Az
Terrence takes his lines right from the Mel White traveling sodomite show. If you do a little research on Mr. Mel, it is easy to see where Terrence has found his propaganda.

Trouble is Terrence doesnt even believe what he says.

Academic Freedom?
Is this how "academic freedom" is defined nowadays? It is amazing hypocrisy.

Clarifications from MA....
Will from CA writes:
"The folks of Massachusetts will be celebrating a half decade of gay marriage (which started May 17, 2004). In this state, gay marriage is no longer a "controversy". It's accepted by almost two-thirds of the state population now and there's no longer a fuss."

First, I'm amazed at how someone can read the mood of an entire state's population from 3000 miles away (hey Will, not all of us live in Brookline & Cambridge).

Second, the fact that there hasn't been civil war over the whole gay marriage thing is based on two things:
--Unlike the anti-prop 8 crowd who morph into SA stormtroopers when things don't go their way, some of us respect civil authority even when, as happened with the MA Supreme Judicial Court, it oversteps its bounds
--While it is true that the passage of gay marriage hasn't disrupted day-to-day life here, that can be attributed to (a)restraint as described above and (b) there really aren't that many people taking advantage of it...most of them prefer to go on as they always have (i.e., multiple partners in dark places)

Viewpoint neutrality
is the new mantra at college campuses. However, they don't understand that when Christian beliefs conflict with homosexual beliefs, favoring either side is not "viewpoint neutral". Liberals who are atheists or Sunday morning Christians don't understand that true Christians don't turn their beliefs off and on, nor do they lie.

Robert
shut up

swampfox
I like hearing about your gayness. Do you ever come out to Oregon?

Oh, Jeffy:
Won't you set aside your prejudices and counsel a cross-species relationship?

Terrence-- Wrong As Always
"I'm being serious. the only way to make the bible condemn homosexuality is to turn to non-biblical texts." So every serious scholar of scripture for two thousand years is wrong and Terrence is right. Isn't it amazing how wise we are today compared with the rest of time?

See everyone
Re Talent scout........When the argument is reasonable people like talent scout have to show their true colors.

talent scout Location: CO
Reply # 2
Date: May 11, 2009 - 12:35 PM EST
Robert
Shut up

This is how easy it would be to win the election. People like talent scout, who probably isn't a talent scout, really just have an agenda to push that is self serving. If we stay on point, their flimsy arguments can't win.

A 15 year old homosexual?
So I guess that a sixteen year old teenager distressed upon realizing that he/she is homosexual must be told that he/she can change their homosexual sexual orientation? And, if they don't they will be engaging in filching, in due course.

She SHOULD have said:
"I agree with President Obama who says that marriage should only be between a man and a woman." Imagine Perez Hilton getting his panties in a knot onscreen then!!

-Ray
NRA Life Member
Soli Deo Gloria!!

this terrence person would have us

believe that Jesus was fine with sex outside of marriage. In fact, this terrence person believes Jesus encouraged sex outside of marriage.

this terrence person does not even wonder why the Church founded by Jesus has, for 2000 years condemned acts of fornication (sex outside of marriage), acts of sodomy, and acts of adultery.

this terrence person actually believes that christians should listen to his interpretation of Our Lord's teachings and of Sacred Scripture instead of the teachings of the Church founded by Jesus.

Such beliefs indicate either profound ignorance, incredible stupidity or deliberate lies. I guess mental illness might also produce such vast error.

Low Class
perez whatever his name is, a most low class individual, should be shunned by anyone who has a common sense. His real name, Lavandeira is a Portugese word for laundry woman. Laundry women are are given work that is usuallly assigned to the servants, the peasantry. He lived up to his name of low class peasant by attacking a young, defenseless woman in front of millions of viewers. I personally attack him here by calling him a low class scum of society for doing what he did. If he can do it to a poor defenseless woman merely expressing her opinion I am calling Lavandeira out as the low class scum that he is.

Robert
Shut up

The Right To Privacy

In the First Amendment, the rights of speech, religion, and association are specifically identified. The right of privacy was inferred by Justice Brandies, who extolled in 1890 that there should be 'a right to be left alone.' This right has developed into a liberty of personal autonomy protected by the 14th amendment. Additionally, the right to privacy has been read into the 1st, 4th, and 5th Amendments, which also provide some protection of privacy, although in all cases the right is narrowly defined.

So, what trumps? The specific rights of the First Amendment or the inferred Right to Privacy?

EMU and the Like
Just one more attempt to legitimize the obnoxious and even harmful behaviors of a depraved, perverted sector of society while slowly eroding the needed protections for the normal sector. It's also bureacracy imposing its harmful belief system on maleable students. Time to purge these morally misguided fools from academia. We must stop the erosion of the principles that made this country great.

Disgusting!
Recently I heard a word used that I was unfamilar with. I did a search and read the definition of this word, FILCHING, in the Urban Dictionary.

Now, when I see or hear about homosexuals like Perez Hilton, the vision of them engaged in this practice of filching will flash through my mind and I will undoubtedly want to vomit.

There was a time when I could tolerate the homosexual but no longer. My acceptance of homosexuals and their lifestyle? Never. These people are sick, they are vile, they are an abomination and if you don't believe it, then just look up the definition of filching.

As for that professor in my home state of Missouri, well, he should be taken out, tarred and feathered, run out of town and never again be allowed to teach anywhere.

I am certainly no religious fanatic, but cursed are those who sleep with their own kind.

Stop the moral, philosophical banter
This is why republicans have years before we come back in power. We are not the party of antigay, prolife. We are the party of intelligent decision making and fiscal responsibility, in and out of the home. I don't think Lincoln made his name on gay issues. Get your head out of your, you know where. Do you want to lead this country out of this mess or let the bureaucrats do it? Get focused, handle your religious beliefs at church and live what you preach. If you can't be part of the solution, you are part of the problem. In case you didn't notice we have a huge problem.

Aberration as panacea
Can't we all just turn gay?!?

Thanks
for the compliment, Will!

So, Jeffy,
Will you help me with my marriage problem and help me and my wife get back together?

n says:
“First of all therapy is not a civil right. No one is guarenteed counseling. So no ones rights are violated by refusing them therapsy. No therapist should ever treat someone with whom they can not work without objectivity. That does not mean they abadon the client but rather refer them on to an appropriate therapist.”

Look, I don’t know if you’re just being difficult because you have some extra time on your hands or what. But I’ll try one more time: therapy is about solving problems, not about who has the problem. No reputable therapist determines who the patient is before determining whether treatment can proceed. A therapist may determine that a patient’s problem is not in line with his expertise: he may decline patients with problems with alcohol, for example, if he’s not trained in dealing with alcoholism.

Julia Ward determined that, regardless of the problem, she cannot treat homosexuals. She could have said Christians, or midgets, or left-handed people. This prejudice against a specific group is a huge problem for a therapist because it’s a confession that she can’t separate her own feelings from providing therapy to a patient. Who knows what other groups she can’t help?! She clearly misunderstands her mission as a therapist: to solve problems, regardless of who has the problem.

All sex acts
Are done by choice.
========================

Swampfox writes:11:55 AM EST
Behavior vs. Orientation
There seems to me that after reading this article that Adams thinks that homosexuality is a behavioral choice and not a sexual orientation.
======================

Unless it is by rape

ridiculous again
Once again we see where expansion of govt. and minigovt. (ie public colleges)will lead us. Forget the perspectives of either side. This situation was resolvable in 30 seconds if bureaucrats weren't in charge. A counselor with an anti gay bias should simply remove herself as that person's counselor, period, done. No, that would be too simple. Let's give the bureaucrats more reasons to justify their job, on both sides. Forget about the needs of 10,000 plus other students who need help at the school. Their issues will just have to wait while the bureaucrats figure it out. Next, the school will be asking for a bigger budget to handle the problems because they just don't have enough people to handle the students. Yeah baby, that's America at its finest.

Swampfox
Most people, who haven't been indoctrinated by the media and public schools, believe that the majority of people that practice homosexual sex do so by choice. Also, that sexual orientation, other than male/female, is a deviation.

Don't care if you feel sorry for me. I don't want nor desire your pity.

Romans Chapter 1: 21-29

Rabbit trail argument
Take it off track and point to another argument.

This trick does not work with me, I am not a follower of false arguments as you bring.
=======================

Terrence responds 11:45 AM EST
Talent Scout

You wrote, "First off, the bible does call sodomy a sin and an abomination."



Terrence continues:
Scout, I just went to biblegateway.com and did a search for the word sodomy in the King James Version, the New King James Version, the New American Standard Bible, and the New International Version.
========================
Try the word Sodom


Terrence writes:
Not found.
======================
Try here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodomy

Or here:

http://mw1.m-w.com/dictionary/sodomy

Or read up and learn what this word means.

Etymology

1. The origin and historical development of a linguistic form as shown by determining its basic elements, earliest known use, and changes in form and meaning, tracing its transmission from one language to another, identifying its cognates in other languages, and reconstructing its ancestral form where possible.
2. The branch of linguistics that deals with etymologies.


Terrence writes:
I'm being serious. the only way to make the bible condemn homosexuality is to turn to non-biblical texts.
=======================
I suggest you turn on your reading comprehension.

Otherwise go ahead and twist the scriptures to your very own destruction.


Terrence writes:

One more thing. The constitutions of our country were founded on the Bible, there is no conflict. This is why whenever a judge looks at their constitution they end up overturning bans on same-sex marriage. It is not because they are radical activist judges.
======================
Sodomy was a felony from 1789 til 2003 under the Constitution (still is and denied today) and nothing changed in the Constitution from 1789 til this very day about sodomy.

Jeffrey from MI
has written the single-best comment on this entire thread.

In fact, it's factually and logically superior to Mike's one-sided (no surprise here) predictable non-challenging column.

Let us review Jeffrey's calm, sober, intelligent post, please:

----------

Fact time

“In a letter she read during her disciplinary hearing, Ward said she believes that “God ordained relationships between men and women,” and that people should “strive to cultivate sexual desires for persons of the opposite sex.” She is, she said, “morally obligated … to express the biblical viewpoint regarding proper sexual relationships” in the course of her counseling work.

It is not true, as Ward’s lawsuit alleges, that either EMU or the ACA prohibit counselors “from advising clients that they can refrain from homosexual conduct.” What the school and the association both say is that counselors may not offer such advice unless the client expresses a desire to make such a life change.

EMU and the ACA do not, as Ward claims, “affirm homosexual conduct.” They consider it morally and therapeutically neutral. It’s not worthy of praise, and it’s not a problem to be solved. It’s just a fact.

Ward was expelled because she repudiates this fundamental therapeutic premise, and in so doing rejects a basic ethical tenet of the profession she wishes to practice.”


How would you guys feel if Ward took it upon herself to counsel Christians to grow up and forget about worshipping a sky pixie? This woman has a fundamental misunderstanding of her role as a therapist: to help a client change or resolve issues in ways HE or SHE wants, not in ways the therapist wants. Can you understand why she was dismissed from the program?


Regarding Perez Hilton
By the way, Perez Hilton is a foul-mouthed jerk.

Jeffrey - What About Financial Concerns?
"This is about performing therapy, for which one is trained, on a patient that the therapist doesn’t approve of, for either personal or religious reasons."

What about my personal FINANCIAL reason to decline legal service? What about my personal TIME CONSTRAINTS? It is bad enough that a court can order me to defend a client on a pro bono basis. You would additionally mandate that I accept every client, free of charge, or whatever; regardless, of my own personal choice, which I believe that I still have relative to my personal choice in whom I represent independent of a court's decision.

The next thing that I know is that a civil court will order me to represent you free of charge in your litigation against a therapist that referred you to a colleague, who lacks a religious belief relative to homosexuality.

Brave New World Order, indeed.

Hey Jeffy - Will you help me?
I think that my wife is fooling around on me.
I have to work all day and cannot 'watch her' every moment.
I thought we had a loving relationship.
But, she's home all day with that "dog" and I know something is going on - she doesn't respond to me as she always has.

You would agree to counsel me, right? Marriage counseling?

When I show up with my 'wife,' a sheep, and start mean-mouthing my male dog - will you STILL counsel me? Will you be able to 'put aside your fundamental beliefs?'

Talent Scout

You wrote, "First off, the bible does call sodomy a sin and an abomination."

Scout, I just went to biblegateway.com and did a search for the word sodomy in the King James Version, the New King James Version, the New American Standard Bible, and the New International Version.

Not found.

I'm being serious. the only way to make the bible condemn homosexuality is to turn to non-biblical texts.

One more thing. The constitutions of our country were founded on the Bible, there is no conflict. This is why whenever a judge looks at their constitution they end up overturning bans on same-sex marriage. It is not because they are radical activist judges.

100 percent wrong

Terrence writes:

Response for Eddie Too
Eddie Too, you wrote, "Jesus said fornicators will not enter the kingdom of heaven."


As I said, where homosexuality is lumped in with fornicators in the Bible, the term being translated actually refers to catamites, boys in sexual relations with adult men.
=======================

This one scripture shows that is not even close to the facts.
(plus the KJV is the best out there)

Matthew 5:32 -
But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.


There is no way possible to use your definition and read the above with a single hope of understanding.




Terrence writes:
"I am not wrong."

You are 100 percent wrong, and do it willfully, it appears.

Definite sign of an unsound mind

Jeffrey
Please cite the reference from the ACA that says a person cant be a therpaist if they dont treat a particular population.

First of all therapy is not a civil right. No one is guarenteed counseling. So no ones rights are violated by refusing them therapsy. No therapist should ever treat someone with whom they can not work without objectivity. That does not mean they abadon the client but rather refer them on to an appropriate therapist.

Tadpole
"We have kid doctors, heart doctors, eye doctors, etc. that can specialize to treat a specific part of the human body - yet, you believe that a therapist must treat all people of all types or 'go dig ditches'."

Denise: Listen up, moron. It was Jeffrey, who argued that, not me. In fact, I argued the same position as you when I discussed the preference of many women to choose a female doctor.

"How thoughtful of you."

Denise: And, how ignorant and illiterate are you.

"Perhaps we should also consider that the same first amendment that is invoked to be a concientious objector to war might also include the right of therapist to limit their practice and scope of expertise."

Denise: Again, I argued that a doctor should not be forced to perform abortions.

Terrence
You made an odd statement:

"I am a Christian. I made Jesus Christ my Lord and Savior in 1983. The Bible does not condemn homosexuality as sin."
=====================

First off, the bible does call sodomy a sin and an abomination.

You cannot change this, but even in your attempt to do so explain what is a sin.

You condemn people who oppose your sexual choices as if it was a sin to disagree with the sodomites.

So you come across as believing the act of sodomy is not a sin but to oppose it is.

The bible has judged this sort of thinking as reprobate

Tadpole
Do therspists not have the right to limit their practice? Why would anyone be REQUIRED to treat everyone who comes to their door?

What if there was a therapist who didnt mind treating gays or anyone else for that matter but used a technique that the gay person didnt like or agree with. Should that therapist be required to use a different technique? Shouldnt the person seeking treatment know up front what is used so they can decide whether or not to find a different therapist? If a gay person knew up front a therpaist doesnt treat gays then they should know that up front and move on. Why should not treating a particualr group make it impossible to be a therpaist? SO if a therapist uses a technique gays dont liek they should also be stopped from doing any counseling?

n
You are totally removed from the reality of helping professions. We’re not talking about limitations on qualifications, in the way a general practitioner isn’t qualified to perform plastic surgery. This is about performing therapy, for which one is trained, on a patient that the therapist doesn’t approve of, for either personal or religious reasons.

If you believe that’s it’s ok to reject patients for being gay, then you must certainly believe that it’s ok to reject patients for being Christians or being black. I happen to think rejecting patients for who they are is wrong. And I know enough about the therapy profession to know that it violates the ACA code of conduct to reject patients for who they are.

terrence is completely wrong on

his understanding of the Church's teachings on homosexuality.

Saying you are a christian does not make someone a christian.

Jesus said that God made them male and female and for that reason a man leaves his mother and father and becomes one with his spouse.

Jesus said fornicators will not enter the kingdom of heaven.

Terrence is wrong.

Jeffrey
No the university did NOT do the right thing no matter what "group" you put in there. I much prefer a therapist saying up fron they cant work with a particular population. Thats a good therapist who knows their limits. Not treating a particular group does not make you a bad counselor.

And yes this have EVERYTHING to do with homosexuals. This is just a hissy fit by a gay who found a way to make trouble for someone.

Denise
We have kid doctors, heart doctors, eye doctors, etc. that can specialize to treat a specific part of the human body - yet, you believe that a therapist must treat all people of all types or 'go dig ditches'.

How thoughtful of you.

Perhaps we should also consider that the same first amendment that is invoked to be a concientious objector to war might also include the right of therapist to limit their practice and scope of expertise.

Denise
Fine thanks. Hope you are doing well!

Alice in Wonderland indeed! I keep thinking of Bizarro world in Superman folklore. Up is down. Black is white. In is out. Or in this case...out is out.

loquacious
Spot on. Shoving homosexuality on people through the legal system will never make people accpet homosexuality. It may be legal but its still not right. Legality and acceptance are not and neverwill be the samething.

Carrie Prejean Is Principled?

"Julea is also, like Carrie Prejean, a brave and principled individual."


Folks I'm not going to defend a foul mouth dolt like Perez Hilton, but please don't try to tell me Carrie Prejean is a good representative for the women of the United States.

And these muckrakers who try to paint all LGBT citizens as radical left-wing Hilton's are a disgrace.

Reasons I do not support a ban on same-sex marriage:

Some opposite-sex couples commit the same sexual acts as gay men, and no one is trying to ban them.

Some opposite-sex couples can also by nature be unable to procreate, and no one is trying to ban them.

The only leg those opposed to same-sex marriage have to stand on is that until now marriage has been defined as one man, one woman. Big deal. Legal definitions are changed whenever society deems them illogical and outdated.

I am a Christian. I made Jesus Christ my Lord and Savior in 1983. The Bible does not condemn homosexuality as sin.

For example, people, straight people, were worshiping false gods in pagan worship services. Then, and not until then, God gave them over, etc. The Bible does not specify what God gave these straight people over to.

To say that these passages refer to homosexuals is a huge stretch.

Even where some of the newer translations of the Bible have now decided to use the word "homosexual", the term being translated actually refers to catamites, boys in sexual relations with adult men.

Pedophilia and paganism are the abominations, not homosexuality.

If other Christians are worried their church will be forced to marry same-sex couples; that is the issue they should address, rather than to use the government to control the relationships of same-sex couples.

n
I think you’re distracted by the “homosexual” angle of this story. This student was expelled from the program because she stated in advance that there is a group of people, in this case, homosexuals, that she can’t treat. It is simply impermissible for someone in a therapy situation to decide in advance, with prejudice, that some classes of people cannot be treated. You can’t be a therapist if this is your attitude. That it happened to be homosexuals is irrelevant. I know you want to think this is one more instance of gay people being pushy about their rights. And that’s what the author wants you to think, too. But it’s not.

Replace “homosexuals” with “Christians” and see if you think that what the university did was still improper.

Identity Medical Treatment Politics

Many women seek female dctors because a male doctor cannot understand what it is like to suffer with uniquely female medical conditions.

Jeffrey, when you can explain to me what it feels like to suffer through a period, endure toxcemia, give birth to children, and undergo a hysterectomy, then I might be able to comprehend, personally, what it feels like to be gay. The problem is that you will never understand the woman's physical body, which is similar to my difficulty in understanding homosexuality.

Is this because I am prejudiced? Absolutely not. I have difficulty comprehending homosexuality because I am not a homosexual.

Affirmation
I think the question is one of affirmation of homosexuality. One should not be REQUIRED to affirm homosexuality in order to council the homosexual!

That would be like a fireman affirming arson while lecturing the man who set fire to his own home! How preposterous!


Denise
If a doctor has a religious belief that he can’t perform an abortion, then he shouldn’t have to perform one. But he also takes an oath to care for patients. I think anyone in a position of care-giving should be extremely specific to his employer about the circumstances in which he won’t perform his job, so that the employer can make arrangements so that someone who WILL do their job can be available. I doubt that many women would go for a routine abortion to a doctor who doesn’t want to perform it. That would call into doubt his ability to safely and properly perform the abortion. If the Catholic church has decided to withhold care because of abortion avoidance, shame on them. They’re made an immoral choice IMO.

Frankly, I think Christians are remarkably flexible on what they choose to do or not do in terms of their faith requirements. That’s a good thing. Christians often get divorced, against Christ’s wishes, they ignore the Sabbath, they dishonor their parents, they murder on occasion, they commit adultery, etc., etc. Oddly, they become highly religious on the issues of homosexuality and abortion, at least publicly. Of course, who knows what’s going on behind the scenes.

The final result
Homosexuals can blather away to their heart's content, and they can get laws passed "legalising" homosexual marriage. These laws, however, are meaningless in the long run. There were laws that said it was legal for a person to own other people as piece of property. That did not make slavery right rather than wrong, or good instead of evil. Thus, despite laws being passed, a pair of perverts does not constitute marriage. Also, and to the point, do not forget that the final result of a life of homosexuality, is eternal damnation. Have a nice day.

Jeffrey
Denise: “What I am saying is that it is difficult to separate the two [professional behavior and personal prejudices].”

Jeffrey: If you can’t do it, donut become a therapist or anybody in a helping profession.

Denise: Jeffrey, again, I am an attorney. Yes, I have defended people that I abhorred. I did a fantastic job and won their cases, but I did not like them. I did not trust them. I did not believe them. I had no choice if I wanted to keep my license. Why did this happen? Because there existed (and, still does) a deficit in lawyers to defend cases on a pro bono basis. If I had wanted to, I could have just quit the profession. I have no doubt that many doctors will face the same dilemma.

Jeffrey: If you can’t be sure you’ll treat Jews or atheists or homosexuals with the same care as you treat Christians, then go dig ditches for a living, where you won’t be a threat to other people.

Denise: Do not refer to me. Please reread the above.

Will, It is the end of world
Will, please show me evidence that two people of the same sex can have children? They Can't. The job of government is to make sure society lives forever, that ideas have continuity and can be transferred from generation to generation. State sponsored gay marriage will end society as we know it and so will abortion. No kids, no future generation, no society, no world. It's as simple as that. If people believe homosexual behavior is bad due to religious believe good for them, if some believe is a moral issue, good for them. I happen to believe is a philosophical/social issue. Besided the more people like you keep pushing for gay marriage the more you depart from the real issues like suicide, HIV, drug addiction etc that affect gay people more than any other segment of society.

con't
But at the post grad or university stage, a student can't pick and choose which part of the course assignment he won't do. Didn't this woman know what her patient quota or requirement would be and what kind BEFORE she signed up for it?

It looks spectacularly selective that one's religious objections to providing a service are ALL about excluding ONLY gay people.
And in a behavioral science, it also looks prejudiced when these religious objections are contrary to what the APA, and other peer bodies say about homosexuality and how to address homosexuals.
Apparently, this woman gave herself away as someone incapable of being an effective counselor if she rejects what respected peer bodies in her profession require of her.

She chose the wrong profession, NOT the wrong religion. But let's just say, she has more freedom to choose either, than a gay person has in being what THEY are.
She should accept and KNOW exactly what gay people are according to her professional choice, if her religious one isn't paying her bills or getting her a college degree.

She has a great deal more choice, than a gay person does of their orientation, or who will accept them when seeking open public services.
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