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Monday, March 30, 2009
Mike Adams :: Townhall.com Columnist
How to Cure Your Daughter’s STD
by Mike Adams
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Dear Steve:

Thanks for writing me with your concerns about your daughter’s recent visit home from college. I don’t have a daughter but I can understand the concern you have after seeing such dramatic changes in her after just six months at a public university. After all, you didn’t save money for eighteen long years in order to pay someone to teach her to despise the values you taught for, well, eighteen long years.

First of all, I want you to understand that many of the crazy ideas you hear your daughter espousing are commonplace on college campuses. Nonetheless, it must have been shocking for you to hear that she supported Barack Obama in the last election principally because of his ideas about “the redistribution of wealth.” I know you were also disappointed to hear of her sudden opposition to the War on Terror and her sudden embrace of the United Nations. Most of all, I know you are disappointed that she has stopped going to church altogether.

Now that your daughter is not going to church it will be easier to get her to accept other policies based on economic and cultural Marxism. Socialist professors like the fact that average church attendance drops dramatically after just one year of college. God and socialism are simply incompatible. One cannot worship both Jesus Christ and Karl Marx.

But there is good news, Steve. I think I can implement a program that will cure your daughter’s Socialist Teaching Disorder (STD) in just a few short days. In case you were wondering, I define STD as the sudden infatuation with socialism brought on by exposure to pro-socialist ideas without a corresponding exposure to anti-socialist ideas. Although not recognized by the APA, this emotional disorder is running rampant at American universities.

The solution to your daughter’s STD is to be found in your decision to award her a sum of $4000 if she returns from her freshman year with a 3.5 GPA or above. Previously, you explained to me that you decided to do this for two reasons: 1) Your daughter had earned a $4000 scholarship, which meant you had the extra money, and 2) Your only son had gone to college five years ago and flunked out after one year.

Now that your daughter has maintained a 3.6 GPA (so far) you are happy. But you are unhappy that you are about to reward her newfound love of socialism when you had only intended to reward her studiousness. I have a solution that involves three steps. If you follow these steps (in order) we’ll have this little problem cured in no time:

1. When your daughter returns from college in early May (presumably with a GPA over 3.5) I want you to tell her that you lied. Put simply, when she asks about her $4000 just tell her that you never really had any intention of delivering on your promises.

This revelation will, no doubt, cause significant consternation and outrage. But when she protests, simply point out that her choice for president, Barack Obama, also lied to her. Note that his lies about earmarks and line-by-line analysis of the budget will probably end up costing her more than $4000. She might say, “But you’re my father.” If she does, respond by saying “But I’m not your president.” If things get too uncomfortable, just tell her the $4000 promise was technically “last year’s business.”

2. When your daughter has cooled down somewhat from the realization that her father is a confessed liar I want you to strike again. Since your son, now 23, still lives at home it will be possible for you to implement step two in the presence of both children. This step will involve simply taking out your wallet and writing a $2000 check to your son.

This action will, no doubt, cause even more consternation and outrage for your daughter. She may well point out that her brother is unemployed. She may also point out that he has been in rehab twice and that he once punched you in the face while under the influence of drugs. But, when she protests, simply say that it was Barack Obama who taught you to reward failure.

She may well say “But that’s half of the money I was supposed to get.” If so, point out that it is Barack Obama who would like to take other people’s money – at least half, if not more – and use much of it to reward bad behavior. By this time, she will probably hate socialism and the lesson will have saved you a lot of money.

But, just in case the point is not yet made, there is a third step to my plan. And this is where I get actively involved.

3. I’m going to take your daughter and the remaining $2000 - in the form of one hundred $20 bills – to the “hood.” Specifically, I am going to take her to places where crack cocaine is sold here in Wilmington in the middle of the afternoon. This will include grocery stores and actual crack houses. Don’t worry about your daughter’s safety as I will be armed with a .357 magnum loaded with 145-grain silver tipped hollow point bullets. When I approach a crack head I will first ask whether he paid income taxes last year. If he says “no” I will hand him $20.

If your daughter asks me why I give money to people who don’t pay taxes I’ll remind her that this is what President Obama does. Then I’ll ask her if she still believes in “spreading the wealth” without regard to individual merit.

By the end of the afternoon, I can guarantee your daughter will be cured of her STD. Sorry if I sound overly optimistic, Steve. I got my optimism from the same place I got my love of capitalism. I learned it from Ronald Reagan, not Barack Obama.

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About The Author
Mike Adams is a criminology professor at the University of North Carolina Wilmington and author of Feminists Say the Darndest Things: A Politically Incorrect Professor Confronts "Womyn" On Campus.
 
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Brilliant, Mike
Great commentary! Every parent should read this.

Please respond to my questions
http://cubedemon.blogspot.com/

Hello Everyone

Can any of you answer any of my questions I have posed on my blog?

Cube Demon

How sad. . .
a man telling his daughter he will not help her with an education so she can avail herself of future opportunities because she supported BHO. All I can say, if I were that man's daughter, I would get a job and apply for a loan rather than deal with such an idiot nasty father. Talk about loosing respect for your elders! And were was the girl's mother? I bet she wouldn't have liked that tactic nor tolerated it at all.
Alas, my father had no money, so I had to work in order to go to college and my father never got it that the reason he was not treated well when his health failed was Ronald Reagen and the repugs' attitude towards social programs for the disabled. Oh well, that is another conversation for another time.

What?!

U.S.A. pushes expansion of feminism inte
"U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton has told a Planned Parenthood convention that reproductive rights, as well as women's rights and empowerment, are key issues in President Barack Obama's foreign policy."

"Secretary Clinton started her day in Washington, where she and the President announced the administration’s new direction in Afghanistan. One priority, she said, is ensuring the expansion of women’s rights there."

http://www.onenewsnow.com/Culture/Default.aspx?id=469608

Hide your daughters from socialists."

Um, what? So, women having rights in Afghanistan is a bad thing now, and somehow tied to socialism? When Bush said that was one of his priorities when we first invaded, was that OK with you? Are you insane?

45calibur

"Reminds me of a story
I heard recently. Proud (liberal) parents explain that their daughter is in favor of helping the homeless and poor. The man they were talking to turned to the daughter (who was about eight):

"So you believe that we should help the homeless?"

"Yes, I do."

"I'll tell you what, come to my house and I'll pay you ten dollars to rake the leaves in my yard. Then we'll go down to the convienience store and give it to a homeless man."

The girl thinks a minute. "But that would be my money? Why can't he work and get his own home?"

"Welcome to the Republican Party." "

Another ridiculous and nonsensical story. "Helping the homeless" =/= "Forcing a little girl to give up all of her money." Even under Obama's plan, it's not like you're losing everything or even most of your money. Not to mention that there are many conservatives who favor helping the homeless. This is just idiotic.

45calibur
"There was a girl in college who started school the same year I did. She was vivacious and very pretty. She was the type of woman who attracted attention everywhere and you hoped the best for her because it made you feel good to be around her. We called her "Sunny" because she was so bright and happy.

Four years later at our graduation, she was in line ahead of me. She wore a tee shirt and worn jeans, no shoes, under her robe. She hadn't bothered to fix her heair or put on makeup. I asked what she planned to do after graduation.

She replied that she didn't know. She was going to move in with some boy, whom she said she didn't like, so he could take care of her while she looked around. She did tell me how nice the party she had attended the night before had been. A number of students had gone to a park and built a bonfire. They would dance around it. She had worn a bikini but finally took left the top off because she kept falling out of it. And she had had sex with every male there.

It really saddened me to see how she had lost her vivaciousness and had dwindled to the point of living with a guy she didn't like, trading sex for a place to stay, because of what she had 'learned' on campus,"

Sad story, but are you really implying that this was a result of her college education? Really? Because most college girls don't give up their dreams and have spontaneous orgies their senior year.

Oy...
This article should be called, "How to Destroy Your Relationship With Your Daughter in a Few Douchey Steps."

I wasn't aware Obama was randomly handing out cash to crack dealers. Wow, you learn a lot from this site!

And I'm sure he wouldn't have made the STD joke if this were somebody's son we were talking about.

This man is mentally ill.

F1etch
Actually,upon reviewing the French health care system, it appears to work rather well. The UK system is a failure. If we try to copy the French, will we arrive at something more like something Dr. Frankenstein created, an out of control money monster? the French control costs with limits on doctors salaries and limits on malpractice claims. The Democrats have sturdily fought tort reform regards malpractice.

In the last political cycle, lawyers and law firms again led all industries in federal political giving, spending a staggering $182 million on federal campaigns alone—outspending the corporate health-care sector by more than 50 percent.
PAC donations from the Association of Trial Lawyers of America (ATLA)—are perennially among the nation's highest to the Democratic Party.
74 percent of lawsuit-industry contributions go to Democrats.

http://www.opensecrets.org/pacs/sector.php?cycle=2008&txt=K

http://www.opensecrets.org/industries/indus.php?ind=K01

WASHINGTON (AP) - The Obama administration and key congressional Democrats are taking a hard look at the nation's medical malpractice system as part of a broader health care overhaul.

Reviving the issue could provoke a fierce fight from trial lawyers, who, along with doctors, have the most at stake.

Trial lawyers and their Democratic Senate allies helped kill attempts under the Bush administration to cap punitive and pain and suffering payouts in malpractice lawsuits.

http://www.wtop.com/?nid=106&sid=1626582

It's plain old common sense
Here’s the Physicians for a National Health Program have to say:

“Single-payer national health insurance is a system in which a single public or quasi-public agency organizes health financing, but delivery of care remains largely private.
Currently, the U.S. health care system is outrageously expensive, yet inadequate. Despite spending more than twice as much as the rest of the industrialized nations ($7,129 per capita), the United States performs poorly in comparison on major health indicators such as life expectancy, infant mortality and immunization rates. Moreover, the other advanced nations provide comprehensive coverage to their entire populations, while the U.S. leaves 47 million completely uninsured and millions more inadequately covered.

The reason we spend more and get less than the rest of the world is because we have a patchwork system of for-profit payers. Private insurers necessarily waste health dollars on things that have nothing to do with care: overhead, underwriting, billing, sales and marketing departments as well as huge profits and exorbitant executive pay. Doctors and hospitals must maintain costly administrative staffs to deal with the bureaucracy. Combined, this needless administration consumes one-third (31 percent) of Americans’ health dollars.

Single-payer financing is the only way to recapture this wasted money. The potential savings on paperwork, more than $350 billion per year, are enough to provide comprehensive coverage to everyone without paying any more than we already do.

Under a single-payer system, all Americans would be covered for all medically necessary services, including: doctor, hospital, long-term care, mental health, dental, vision, prescription drug and medical supply costs. Patients would regain free choice of doctor and hospital, and doctors would regain autonomy over patient care.

National Health care
will eventually be embraced by doctors. I remember when my dad would argue that Medicare, 'socialized medicine' as the AMA called it, would destroy medicine as we knew it in this country. Well, not so much, as it turned out. Doctors figured out how to scam the system, so they'll figure out the national plan too. It will likely be a hybrid as long as dinosaurs like me (baby boomers with huge expectations and unrealistic demands) live, but over time, people will get used to the Kaiser Permanente model of medical care.


Poor frustrated little Fletch
Lil Fletch, you failed to mention any mental illness in your list of ailments. Did you overlook that, or those? No one claimed that an ill person can never get health insurance, pumpkin. The claim is, and remains, it is difficult. Under a single payer system, no one would have to worry about pre-existing illness.

“That the AMA would advocate that more and more governmental money be funneled in its direction is, again, hardly surprising. That anyone would be so foolish as to fail to see that interest at work and refer to this endorsement of socialized medicine as if it were a selfless advocacy for the public ... well, sadly, that isn't all that surprising either.”

And yet in France, with its nationalized medicine, doctors make 1/3 of what doctors in the US make. It seems odd that doctors in the US would be clamoring for nationalized medicine that could be highly detrimental to their paychecks.

God I can’t wait for Dreadnaught to get back from Spain so I can have an adult to argue with again.


Thanks sol
Yeah, I heard that about a month and a half ago and thought I'd give it a try.

poor poor Jeffie
"Your anecdote does nothing to dispel deny this fact."

You would get a failing grade in Logic 101.

The so-called "fact" was not presented as an occassional thing but as a global truth. By definition, ANY case where someone with pre-existing conditions is able to obtain coverage dispels it. It is because the fallback position is that it doesn't always happen but USUALLY does that I referenced the ample opportunities available on the internet.
The implication that coverage is routinely unavailable for those with pre-existing conditions is not a "fact" at all.

"The American Medical Student Association (AMSA)..."

...is a subsidiary of the AMA, which, as a matter of course, advocates policies that make their members better off (that's neither surprising nor, in itself, a bad thing). Becaue it has been granted pseudo-governmental licensing powers, its chief accomplishment over the last several decades is to artificially restrict the availablity of a doctors (through licensing not only all doctors, but all medical schools) in order to increase the pay that doctors receive. AMA restrictions also prohibit some simple tests and functions from being performed by unlicensed personnel. Some studies indicate that more than 10% of the cost of medical care in the US is a direct result of these artificial restrictions.

That the AMA would advocate that more and more governmental money be funnelled in its direction is, again, hardly surprising. That anyone would be so foolish as to fail to see that interest at work and refer to this endorsement of socialized medicine as if it were a selfless advocacy for the public ... well, sadly, that isn't all that surprising either.

So, does widdle Jeffie have any more straw men that could't survive a stiff breeze or can we move on now?

Good News!
The American Medical Student Association (AMSA), with a half-century history of medical student activism, is the oldest and largest independent association of physicians-in-training in the United States. They have a wonderful set of priorities. Thank goodness!

Quality, Affordable Health Care for All

AMSA mobilizes students in advocating for quality, affordable health care for all. AMSA works through state and national coalitions to improve existing public programs and to advocate for a public national health insurance program.

Global Health Equity

This encompasses the issues of wellness, safety, opportunity and environment that make up a healthy society. It also highlights the interconnected nature of all people and our responsibility for rational and proportional assistance for all people, regardless of in which country they live. Justice and equity are paramount to assuring that race, religion, income, gender, sexual preference or nationality are not factors limiting access to quality care.

Enriching Medicine Through Diversity

As the world becomes more integrated and mobile, the need for a health care workforce to reflect our society grows more acute. AMSA’s independence was fueled by the civil rights era and continues today in advocacy for culturally-appropriate care, underrepresented providers in medicine, and admission criteria that do not disadvantage those from different backgrounds.

Professional Integrity, Development and Student Well-Being

Physicians have long had a sacred social mission and AMSA seeks to help create physicians who uphold their duties to patients and society alike. An important aspect of professionalism, however, entails self-care, and we are dedicated to helping physicians-in-training through undergraduate, medical and residency training whiel maintaining balance and retaining commitment to personal and professional growth.

And yet
"insurance companies deny coverage to those with pre-existing conditions."

Your anecdote does nothing to dispel deny this fact.

F1etch
I also have type II diabetes. Are you aware that cinnamon can improve glucose metabolism and the overall condition of individuals with diabetes? It works for me. I eat cinnamon toast every morning, put cinnamon on apples, bananas, pears, etc.

http://diabetes.webmd.com/news/20031205/cinnamon-helps-type -2-diabetes

An example of Canadian health care
MD Agrees Canadian Government Health Care A Factor in Actress’s Death
March 26th, 2009 by Matthew Vadum

Writing in the New York Post, Dr. Cory Franklin concurs with my assertion that Canada’s government-run health care system may have been a contributing factor in the death of actress Natasha Richardson.

I wrote a few days ago that Richardson, after she received a head injury at a Quebec ski resort, received the same kind of treatment anyone in Quebec would have received, and now she’s dead at the age of 45 because Quebec didn’t have something as basic as a medical helicopter system.

Dr. Franklin points out that Canadian health care bureaucrats have to ration care and don’t authorize the purchase of much of the technology that is commonplace in the U.S.:

Well done, sol!
In th absence of cherry-picked facts, data presented out of context, factual inaccuracies and bald unsupported assertions, the Left simply has no arguments remaining.

"Despite my sympathy for Fletch's gruesome health concerns..."

I'm fine, thank you. I take my meds every day and on the whole am quite healthy as is my family (the tumor was benign and while it led to massive personality changes in the wake of the surgery, they were, fortunately, short-lived.

"...it is important to note that anecdotes can never --- ever--- take the place of statistics."

ABSOLUTELY TRUE. But then, all that was presented was the bald assertion that insurance companies deny coverage to those with pre-existing conditions. In that case, a single example to the contrary is sufficient (as if any search on the net for coverage did not reveal ample coverage options).

"I wonder what percent of ill patients who no health insurance are denied insurance?"

Good question. If that percentage were material it is simply not possible that the pro-UHC movement would not have touted it from the rooftops.

And yet...

...I donlt recall seeig it presented anywhere.



Hmmmmm.

The weakness of anecdotes
"I personally, with type II diabetes, high bloof pressure, high collesterol, dishydrotic eczema, a family history of chemical depression (since manifested) and a family that had already been treated for such things as scarlet fever and a brain tumor the size of a grapefruit GOT PRIVATE FAMILY HEALTH INSURANCE COVERAGE without going bankrupt."

Despite my sympathy for Fletch's gruesome health concerns, it is important to note that anecdotes can never --- ever--- take the place of statistics. I wonder what percent of ill patients who no health insurance are denied insurance?

Most uninsured are illegal invaders
SO SCREW EM!!!! They can go home if they can't get health care and STOP leeching off ours.


-Ray
NRA Life Member
Soli Deo Gloria!!

Low pay for French doctors
French doctors on average earn just one-third the salary of their U.S. counterparts.

Rising costs and an aging population make it a struggle for France to finance its system. On May 29, the government warned that health-care inflation this year is running ahead of projections, threatening to deepen an already worrisome $5.2 billion deficit. In Britain, the National Health Service presents a much grimmer picture.

In 2005, 41% of British patients waited four months or longer for elective surgery, compared with less than 10% in the U.S.

What neither the French nor the British system can overcome is the stark math of cost-benefit analysis. A cancer drug like Avastin, which can extend a patient's life by a few months, costs $48,000 annually per patient. It's far too expensive, by NICE's reckoning, to provide to all colon cancer patients, so it's available to none. In France, the state pays a portion and the wealthy are free to make up the difference. Money, in other words, buys good health—on both sides of the Atlantic.

http://www.businessweek.com/globalbiz/content/jun2007/gb200 70613_921562_page_2.htm

Excerpts from the article Jeffy referenced (he seems to remember only the good things about EU healthcare)


One of my favotrite liberal tactics
The open question:

"After all, if universal health insurance means long queues for treatments, then why aren't patients in Paris or Hamburg waiting months for routine services..."

Well, gee, campers, that might be one helluva question if the official data didin't indicate THAT IS EXACTLY THE CASE.

Forget The New Republic's John Cohn. Pick someone with better credibility, like, say, Alger Hiss or O.J. Simpson.

immgrnts boosting lack of health insur.
immigrants are boosting both poverty and the lack of health insurance.

the ranks of the uninsured have increased in six of the past eight years. They're now about 15 percent of the population.

immigration distorts commonly cited statistics.

Hispanics numerically account for all the increase in the number of officially poor. Similarly, immigrants represented 55 percent of the increase of the uninsured from 1994 to 2006, says the Employee Benefit Research Institute.

http://www.newsweek.com/id/156921/page/1

By default, our present policy is to import poor people. This imposes strains on local schools, public services and health care. From 2000 to 2006, 41 percent of the increase in people without health insurance occurred among Hispanics.

Canada has a higher rate of immigration than the U.S., but they favor skilled workers over the unskilled.

We need an immigration policy that makes sense. Legal immigration should favor the high-skilled over the low-skilled. They will assimilate quickest and most aid the economy.

This...
is something I see around me everyday. As a sophomore in college, I see this disorder all around me! This article is the perfect resolution because the problem I have seen is that the students don't pay attention to Obama's policies or their past voting records. They hear what he has to say and think he is a good speaker, so hey let's vote for him. Who cares about his policies, the things he has voted for in the past, and his lack of experience. It also doesn't help being surrounded by liberal professors and media that promote liberal views. I am beginning to wonder how I remain conservative by being exposed to so much left-wing thoughts, views, etc. Oh that's right, I actually pay attention to what goes on in our society and I don't just vote on someone because they speak well, hang out with all the celebrities, and dance well on the Ellen DeGeneres Show.

Thank you for this article...
It made my day!

I know this is hard for you
But before printing verbatim from an article written to announce the findings of a study by the Commonwealth Fund, you might do a LITTLE searching on the net about how the Commonwealth Fund is a radically pro-socialized medicine group whose methodology was completely shredded when reputable researchers noted that their findings were COMPLETELY AT ODDS with all of the research performed up to that time.

Reference to the New Republic SHOULD have given you a clue.

No matter how many talking point memos you choose to post verbatim here and elsewhere, the facts remain that a) universal care yields POORER rsults than even our system which is fouled up by so much government intervention already.

No one who has actually researched these issues as you clearly have not (cherry picking from pro-UHC sites is not reseach) is going to fall for the snake oil you're trying to sell.

You've lost. Move on.

Interesting article
John Cohn at the New Republic had a good story comparing US and other nations’ health care systems, and how statistics arguing against nationalized health care are weak. Some excerpts:

(July, 2007) “You hear it over and over again, in casual conversation and in serious debates among experts: If we create universal health insurance here in the U.S., then we'll end up with less responsive, less advanced medical care. Few arguments have done as much political damage to the cause of universal health care. And, as wonks like me have been arguing in recent months, few arguments fall apart more quickly under scrutiny.

After all, if universal health insurance means long queues for treatments, then why aren't patients in Paris or Hamburg waiting months for routine services — while patients in Boston and Los Angeles are?

If it means getting rushed, impersonal treatment, then why do France and Germany give new mothers more than four days to recover in the hospital, while insurance companies in the U.S. push new mothers out before two?

If it means making do with less advanced technology, then why does Japan have more CT and MRI scanners per person than we do?

And if it means worse health care overall, then why do so many studies show the U.S. scoring so poorly on international comparisons, including those examining "mortality amenable to health care" — a statistic devised specifically to test the quality of different health care systems across the globe?”

Maybe the French can
show us the right way to do it:

"In the May 16 issue of The Journal of the American Medical Association, Dr. Ezekiel J. Emanuel, chairman of the department of clinical bioethics at the National Institutes of Health, wrote "The U.S. health-care system is considered a dysfunctional mess."

French Success Story

Indeed, a May 15 study from the Commonwealth Fund study comparing the quality of the U.S. system with five other countries found that despite spending twice as much per capita, the U.S. ranks last or near last on basic performance measures of quality, access, efficiency, equity, and healthy lives. "The U.S. stands out as the only nation in these studies that does not ensure access to health care through universal coverage," says Commonwealth Fund President Karen Davis (see BusinessWeek.com, 6/12/07, "Universal Health Care: Say Yes").

Gazing across the Atlantic won't lead Americans to a model that fits everyone's requirements. Britain, in particular, suffers myriad problems in its National Health Service (NHS). But in some respects, France comes pretty close to the ideal. Not only are its 62 million citizens healthier than the U.S. population, but per capita spending on health care is also roughly half as much.

France relies on a mixture of public and private funding, as does the U.S. But unlike Americans, every French citizen has access to basic health-care coverage through national insurance funds, to which both employers and employees contribute. Some 90% of the population also buys supplementary private insurance to provide benefits that aren't covered, and the government picks up the tab for those out of work who cannot gain coverage through a family member. "We pay higher taxes in France, but at least we get something for our money," says Leslie Charbonnel, an American who has lived in Paris for two decades."

I've got a better idea
Let your daughter pay for her own education. Then she can believe whatever she wants.

Widdle Jeffie
You just can't be bothered to read the thread on which you post.

1) The Census Bureau (from whom HHS gets its figures) performs two surveys. One yields the 14.5% uninsured figure. The other places it at about 7.5%. The Census Bureau explicitly states that the LATTER figure is more accurate. In addition some 15 million people are fully eligible for on-demand Medicare/Medicaid coverage but haven't bothered to enroll. The 43 million figure is essentially a lie.

2) You can go online right now and find accessible health care coverage without checks for pre-existing conditions. They are not the premier plans (they typically have high deductibles - I had such a plan very briefly). Moreover, anyone who has been consistently covered by insurance (that is, they didn't deliberately wait until they were ill to buy insurance) MUST be accepted regardless of pre-existing conditions as a matter of law. That the biased article fails to MENTION these facts (that don't serve their agenda) is hardly surprising.

3) Socialized medicine KILLS. More people die per capita under socialized medical systems than die in the US due to delays receiving care (used as a proxy by the NIH for lack of insurance coverage). hus, as a matter of practicality, the US provides BETTER access to care than do such systems. It also provides more and longer visits with a primary care physician, greater access to diagnostic treatments and equipment and VASTLY greater care quality based upon assessments of ACTUAL CARE (such as survival rates for diagnoses of serious ailments).

All of your pro-universal care rhetoric has already been thoroughly discredited. But, hey, thanks for playing!

Come on, people!
We have GOT to improve health care access for Americans! This has gone on too long!

“From January-September 2008, 43.3 million persons of all ages (14.5%) were uninsured at the time of the interview, 55.2 million (18.5%) had been uninsured for at least part of the year prior to the interview, and 31.1 million (10.4%) had been uninsured for more than a year at the time of the interview.”

Source: Department of Health and Human Services

Many people can’t get health insurance due to pre-existing conditions!

''This is absolutely the standard way of doing business,'' said Santiago Leon, a health insurance broker in Miami. Being denied for preexisting conditions is well known, but when a person sees the usually confidential list of automatic denials for himself, ``that's a eureka moment. That shows you how harsh the system is.''

A 50-year-old Broward County man, with two long-standing medical conditions, saw the harshness for himself when surfing the Web trying to learn why insurers kept denying him coverage. He was shocked to find several insurers' instructions to sales personnel, usually called the Guide to Medical Underwriting and often marked ``confidential and proprietary.''

''I think it's atrocious what's going on,'' he said. ``Basically, they're taking only the healthy so they can get the fattest profits. If you really need insurance, then you can't get it.''

Another Great Article on this Topic
Check out this article regarding the STD. It references this Mike Adams' post:

http://www.squarewon.org/2009/03/30/socialist-teaching-diso rder-–-why-america’s-youth-aren’t-conservative/

Nice try Jeffie
"As if 15% of Americans (about 46 million people) with no health insurance coverage isn’t bad enough..."

...a myth already addressed.

"...some people can’t even get health insurance coverage..."

It's complete BS. You're fond of anecdotes. Well, there is one time when they ARE useful: when someone argues that people "can't" do something, an example of them doing so undermines the original assertion (note: this is not the same thing as using anecdotes as a response to data which is always useless).

I personally, with type II diabetes, high bloof pressure, high collesterol, dishydrotic eczema, a family history of chemical depression (since manifested) and a family that had already been treated for such things as scarlet fever and a brain tumor the size of a grapefruit GOT PRIVATE FAMILY HEALTH INSURANCE COVERAGE without going bankrupt. Many companies would not cover us, but there is this odd thing that liberals can't fathom called "competition" and there ARE alternatives available. Besides, the Herald "article" neglects to point out that, by law, you cannot be denied coverage for a pre-existing condition if you can demonstrate uninterrupted coverage elsewhere.

Way to cherry-pick, Jeffrey!

Robert, Robert, Robert
Are you TRYING to look foolish?!?!

"[ypu are] a China that has not existed for at least 40 years...."

Factually wrong. The problem is related to a culotural rebellion under China's enforced one birth policy in effect even today. It is a CONTEMPORARY problem.

another F minus for you

Robert

F Minus for Robert
That svereal countres do not recors lie births if the child dies as much as a week after birth is not "right wing wishful thinking", but well established fact. The US uses the official UN standard, but the overwhelming majority do not and, in fact, use a lesser standard, Further, no country in the world goes to the lengths to save newborns that we do urther impacting the data. Fire your fact checker. He is as incompetent as usual.

BTW, we're not just talking about sub-Saharan Africa. The Russians were CAUGHT at it and their methodology is used throughout Eastern Europe. Even Japan and most of WESTERN Europe uses the lesser standard. But we're all blithely supposed to compare apples and oranges so that universal health care drones can hold forth (inaccurately) about the superiority of their care.

"[M]ost of that is home grown right here...ie poor people not having access to pre natal."

F minus again. In fact the majority of infant deaths have NOTHING to do with access to care but are, in fact, due to genetic anomalies and congenital defects.

As usual, Robert, you have held forth without bothering to check your "facts". Bravo.

Britain worse off than any other country
A "must-see" video:

{I have to tell you that you sound like a Brezhnev-era apparatchik giving the party line. You know, and we know, and you know that we know that it’s nonsense! Everyone knows that Britain is worse off than any other country as we go into these hard times. The IMF has said so; the European Commission has said so; the markets have said so – which is why our currency has devalued by thirty percent. And soon the voters too will get their chance to say so. They can see what the markets have already seen: that you are the devalued Prime Minister of a devalued government.}

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94lW6Y4tBXs

Europe vs. America pt. 2
But what about equality? Well, the percentage of Americans living below the poverty line has dropped to 12% from 22% since 1959. In 1999, 25% of American households were considered "low income," meaning they had an annual income of less than $25,000. If Sweden--the very model of a modern welfare state--were judged by the same standard, about 40% of its households would be considered low-income.

In other words poverty is relative, and in the U.S. a large 45.9% of the "poor" own their homes, 72.8% have a car and almost 77% have air conditioning, which remains a luxury in most of Western Europe. The average living space for poor American households is 1,200 square feet. In Europe, the average space for all households, not just the poor, is 1,000 square feet.

So what is Europe's problem? "The expansion of the public sector into overripe welfare states in large parts of Europe is and remains the best guess as to why our continent cannot measure up to our neighbor in the west," the authors write. In 1999, average EU tax revenues were more than 40% of GDP, and in some countries above 50%, compared with less than 30% for most of the U.S.

We don't report this with any nationalist glee. The world needs a prosperous, growing Europe, and its relative economic decline is one reason for growing EU-American tension. A poorer Europe lacks the wealth to invest in defense, a fact that in turn affects the willingness of Europeans to join America in confronting global security threats. But at least all of this is a warning to U.S. politicians who want this country to go down the same welfare-state road to decline.

http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110 005242

http://www.timbro.se/bokhandel/books.asp?isbn=9175665646

Europe vs. America pt. 1
Germany edges out Arkansas in per capita GDP.

Sunday, June 20, 2004 12:01 A.M. EDT

The growing split between the U.S. and Europe has been much in the news, mostly on foreign policy. But less well understood is the gap in economic growth and standards of living. Now comes a European report that puts the American advantage in surprisingly stark relief.

The study, "The EU vs. USA," was done by a pair of economists--Fredrik Bergstrom and Robert Gidehag--for the Swedish think tank Timbro. It found that if Europe were part of the U.S., only tiny Luxembourg could rival the richest of the 50 American states in gross domestic product per capita. Most European countries would rank below the U.S. average, as the chart below shows.

The authors admit that man doesn't live by GDP alone, and that this measure misses output in the "black" economy, which is significant in Europe's high-tax states. GDP also overlooks "the value of leisure or a good environment" or the way prosperity is spread across a society.

But a rising tide still lifts all boats, and U.S. GDP per capita was a whopping 32% higher than the EU average in 2000, and the gap hasn't closed since. It is so wide that if the U.S. economy had frozen in place at 2000 levels while Europe grew, the Continent would still require years to catch up. Ireland, which has lower tax burdens and fewer regulations than the rest of the EU, would be the first but only by 2005. Switzerland, not a member of the EU, and Britain would get there by 2010. But Germany and Spain would need until 2015, while Italy, Sweden and Portugal would have to wait until 2022.

Higher GDP per capita allows the average American to spend about $9,700 more on consumption every year than the average European. So Yanks have by far more cars, TVs, computers and other modern goods. "Most Americans have a standard of living which the majority of Europeans will never come anywhere near," the Swedish study says.


Ranger29 aka Robert
Ranger, how do feel about George Soros making over $1bn last year by shorting the US markets especially since he was convicted in France for insider trading?

Is he an evil Conservative?

Worse than I thought
As if 15% of Americans (about 46 million people) with no health insurance coverage isn’t bad enough, some people can’t even get health insurance coverage, even if they can afford it! We seriously need national health care to make sure all Americans can access our health care system!

“Trying to buy health insurance on your own and have gallstones? You'll automatically be denied coverage. Rheumatoid arthritis? Automatic denial. Severe acne? Probably denied. Do you take metformin, a popular drug for diabetes? Denied. Use the anti-clotting drug Plavix or Seroquel, prescribed for anti-psychotic or sleep problems? Forget about it.

This confidential information on some insurers' practices is available on the Web -- if you know where to look.

It's especially timely because growing numbers are looking for individual health insurance after losing their jobs. On top of that, small businesses, which make up the bulk of South Florida's economy, are frequently finding health policies too expensive and are dropping coverage, sending even more people shopping for insurance.
The problem is, material available on the Web shows that people who have specific illnesses or use certain drugs can't buy coverage.

''This is absolutely the standard way of doing business,'' said Santiago Leon, a health insurance broker in Miami. Being denied for preexisting conditions is well known, but when a person sees the usually confidential list of automatic denials for himself, ``that's a eureka moment. That shows you how harsh the system is.''

Miami Herald

katepate
Maroon, very old cartoon verbage, polite, for one who is not very bright.

Murtha! Murtha! Murtha!

IQ-29 Moments of clarity
Ooops. Sorry there are none.

Overheard was IQ-29 taking his mandatory language examination test for his upcoming trip to Iran as a pork rind and smoked ham salesman:


AKBAR KHALI-KILI HAFTIR LOFTAN.= Thank you for showing me your marvelous gun.

FEKR GABUL CARDAN DAVAT RAEH GUSH DIVAR.= I am delighted to accept your kind invitation to lie down on the floor with my arms above my head and my legs apart.

SHOMAEH FIKR TAMOMEH GEH GOFTEK BANDE.= I agree with everything you have ever said or thought in your life.

AUTO ARRAREGH DVATEMAN MAMO SEPAHEH-HAST.= It is exceptionally kind of you to allow me to travel in the trunk of your car.

FASHAL-EH TUPEHMAN NA DEGAT MANO GOFTAM CHEESHAYEH MOHEMA RAJEBEH KESHAVAREHMAN.= If you will do me the kindness of not harming my genital appendages I will gladly reciprocate by betraying my country in public.


Good luck on your new move!

Ranger
Besides being consistently wrong, you need to know that the word you are mis-defining is gaffe, not gaff. A gaff is something you use to boat a fish.

I'm from a private school, and I'm here to help.

AIG Strongarmed donations for Dodd

Mr. Adams
Great column. Tough love. It's what we need more of. Maybe if some of these left-wing posters had had some tough love they would not be so misguided now.

anderson659
What is a maroon? You called someone that and I was just wondering.

Retired Geek
You asked, "Why would anyone read what IQ29 writes, when Helen Thomas rejected him?"

The question I have is, "Why would anyone RESPOND TO what IQ29 writes?" And more generally, why does anyone respond to a LOT of the OTHER trolls who come here as well?

In seconding my 11:43 am post affirming And If Not's feeling that it's time to quit responding to the trolls and thereby deny them an opportunity to monopolize this site and divert conservatives from making their own points, I thought eddie too made a great point of his own at 11:57 am when he said, "when it comes to the pathetically ignorant leftists who post inanities, vulgarities and complete falsehoods we do every serious visitor to TH a disservice when we acknowldege the crap coming from the typical leftists who do not believe in free speech."

By the way, have you noticed Mod Mark seems to be among the missing on this site lately? I guess with Sophie on vacation in South America right now, he must feel his existence right now has no meaning. Let's hope Sophie likes it so much there in Peru that she on an impulse decides she wants to stay there permanently with her Peruvian squeeze, and maybe Mod Mark will finally stay away from us for good.


Another hero Of -29, Hillary speaks
SOme important statements form Hillary:

Hillary Clinton Quotes - Stupid Hillary Clinton Quotes
politicalhumor.about.com/od/hillaryclinton/a/hi...
Note created March 29, 2009 • Last edited March 29, 2009 by ericka.valladolid@gmail.com
3/29/0910. "I have to confess that it's crossed my mind that you could not be a Republican and a Christian."

9. "God bless the America we are trying to create."

8. "We have a lot of kids who don't know what works means. They think work is a four-letter word."

7. “He ran a gas station down in St. Louis... No, Mahatma Gandhi was a great leader of the 20th century.” –introducing a quote by Mahatma Gandhi

6. “Who is going to find out? These women are trash. Nobody’s going to believe them.” –on Bill Clinton’s bimbo eruptions

5. “If I didn’t kick his a@@ every day, he wouldn’t be worth anything.” –on Bill Clinton

4. "I suppose I could have stayed home and baked cookies and had teas, but what I decided to do was to fulfill my profession which I entered before my husband was in public life."

3. "We are going to take things away from you on behalf of the common good."

2. "I have said that I'm not running and I'm having a great time being pres — being a first-term senator." —on her presidential ambitions

1. "I'm not going to have some reporters pawing through our papers. We are the president."

IQ29 aka Ranger29 aka Robert

IQ29, arrested for spanking his 'Monkey' in public, at a local Wal-Mart.

Someone said that IQ29, was dressed in a 'Tin Foil Hat', replete with a lavender 'T' shirt, six inch wide orange suspenders and yellow and green polka dot mens shorts.

Someone said that IQ29, was dancing in a circle which was a cross between an Irish jig and a 'Moon Dance'.

IQ29 had a 'Monkey' helping him - dressed exactly like he was - every so often IQ29 would scream at the Monkey 'More Cow Bell, I need more Cow Bell' and the poor little Monkey would pick up a cow bell and beat on it with a hammer.

If the monkey did NOT respond quickly with more 'Cow Bell', IQ29 would spank his monkey.

Someone said, IQ29 was arrested for 'Spanking his Monkey' in public.

Biden is Obama's Math Instructor

"Pity poor Joe Biden. His "there's still a 30 percent chance we're going to get it wrong" quote is put straight to President Barack Obama during the White House press conference just now and his boss seemed to want to say: "Vice-President Who?"

As reporters started giggling, Obama came close to conceding that Biden was indeed a joke. "You know, I don't remember exactly what Joe was referring to, not surprisingly."

The President went on to say that "I think what Joe may have been suggesting, although I wouldn't ascribe any numerical percentage to any of this, is that given the magnitude of the challenges that we have, any single thing that we do is going to be part of the solution, not all of the solution."

Of course, Biden wasn't saying anything of the sort - Obama knew that and all the rest of us did too.

Biden's exact quote, read out by Fox's Major Garrett at the presser was: "If we do everything right, if we do it with absolute certainty, if we stand up there and we really make the tough decisions, there's still a 30 percent chance we're going to get it wrong."

Clearly, Obama and his aides were unhappy about Biden's loose lips. On Friday, top Obama adviser David Axelrod said on CNN: "I don't know exactly about what that math was."

We're probably going to have to get used to Obama explaining "what Joe may have been suggesting". And Biden must be wondering if he's going to end up as a Dan Quayle figure."

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/toby_harnden/blog/2009/02/10/b arack_obama_throws_joe_biden_under_the_bus

Retired Geek
IQ-29 was trying to buy autographed panties from Ariana Huffington.

I heard Ms. Wobbie was wearing them on their total recall trip to Athens.


Swampfox

I LOVE you too!

IQ29 Finally Caught With Nets

Someone said IQ29 was ride the 'Little' boat ride in front of Wal-Mart, when it started raining.

Someone said that, IQ29 fell out of the 'Little' boat ride into a puddle of water.

Someone said IQ29 started crying uncontrollably and was screaming I am drowning, I am drowning, someone help me I am drowning.

Someone said that, Three little Girl Scouts helped the sobbing IQ29 to his feet in the middle of the puddle of water.

Someone said, IQ29 looked down at the puddle of water and his feet - then IQ29 started screaming "I can walk on water, just like Messiah-Obama, its a miracle, a miracle I tell you."

Someone said, it took almost an hour after the men 'With Nets' arrived for them to catch IQ29.

IQ29 Helen Thomas Stalker aka Robert

Someone said that IQ29 has been a 'Long Time Stalker' of Helen Thomas of the White House News corp.

Someone said that Helen Thomas has rejected romantic advances by IQ29 for months.

Someone said that Helen Thomas called Police when IQ29 demanded a 'Nude Picture' of her.

Someone said that IQ29 will soon be arrested for 'Stalking' Helen Thomas.

Someone said that Helen Thomas was thinking about a romantic encounter with IQ29, until she saw IQ29 and talked to him.

Why would anyone read what IQ29 writes, when Helen Thomas rejected him?

There's Another Joe Biden?
Ranger sez on his hero, Biden, "He negated Sarah Palin in a debate and made no serious gaffs..."

Joe Biden made no serious gaffes? Are we talking about the Senator? You must mean some other Joe Biden.

To Denise
I really enjoyed your observations about the French. The last time I was over there was in November of 1993. I drove my Mother, Aunt and Uncle around northern France, Germany and Holland for over two weeks. While I was there I had no trouble with anyone, French, German or Dutch. I was a history major in college and am a World War II fanatic. My visit to Normandy and the small cities in that area was special. At that time they were preparing for the 50th anniversary of D-Day. The French in that area weren't snooty toward Americans. When I visited the American graves at Normandy I had a lengthy, about 45 minute, conversation of the American in charge of planning the 50th anniversary.

Here is a hero of Ranger 29- Joe Biden
Some Joe Biden quotes:

"Look, John's last-minute economic plan does nothing to tackle the number-one job facing the middle class, and it happens to be, as Barack says, a three-letter word: jobs. J-O-B-S, jobs."

"I mean, you got the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy. I mean, that's a storybook, man." --on Barack Obama

"I got tested for AIDS. I know Barack got tested for AIDS. There's no shame in being tested for AIDS. It's an important thing."



WP: 82% of GDP in 10 Years!!!
Before reading, keep in mind that the EU average for its countries' with anemic growth is 47% of GDP...

“In the midst of this bonfire of inanities, President Obama is pressing ahead with a $3.6 trillion budget, predicated on utterly unrealistic economic growth, even as the Congressional Budget Office is now projecting that this year’s deficit will soar past $1.8 trillion, 13 percent of the US economy. This would amount, as the Washington Post reports, to ‘the deepest well of red ink since the end of World War II.’ According to the Post, the CBO is warning, ominously, that the result of this kind of borrowing and spending could lead to an exponentially expanding national debt that would ‘exceed 82 percent of the overall economy by 2019.’”

President Obama came to office proclaiming that he aims to solve problems, not hand them on to our children. Most presidents say that sort of thing. But now we are in very dire straits, and that being the case, he will be held to account. It’s your legacy, sir, and let’s not hear any more about ‘inheriting the crisis.’ You asked for the job. Meanwhile, let us hope that his talent for mastering a sérieux financial crisis are not on a level with the Special Olympians of Wall Street, and Congress.”

Ranger 29- What a maroon
In China it was not uncommon for first born children that were girls to be thrown out to die. This practice was quite common, even after the PRC came to power.

Since you know nothing about other cultures, I will leave it at one example of your total ignorance on everything

You are past an F minus.

Child Mortality Rates
A doctor of my acquaintance told me that many countries do not count as live births 'defective' children who are born and let to die. We do. That inflates the figures. Also, we have a large number of third world illegal immigrants who do not have the same health habits that Americans do.

Lonny, Parisian Eats For You!

The absolute best:

Benoit (my favorite restaurant in the world)

Les Ambassadeurs at the Hôtel de Crillon.

Fourqet's on the Champs d'Elysee.

Bon appetit et beaucoup argent.

Quality of life
"There's a lot of 'quality of life' measures that are quantifiable."

Within context that is ofen true.

"Life expectancy..." Already addressed.

"...adult literacy..." The highest in the world (tie) among the native population.

"...percent with access to health care..." The point is specious. Demonstrably, the US provides better access than "universal" care.

"...paid days off from work..." Only in the context of the trade-off.

"...divorce rates, murder rates..." ...are cultural.

"...infant mortality rates..." If only the data were reliable...

"...vehicle accident mortality rates..." be serious.

"And of course, how many different models of expensive sports cars they manufacture." Again, be serious.

None of those measures are without flaws. All must be understood in context. For years Cuba claimed to have higher literacy rates (which was false) but the US includes adult immigrants and Cuba, of course, has no one clamoring to get in.

Bless My French Grandmother . . .
... when she and her Russo-German husband left Russia because of the revolution. Bless them again when they left Germany under Hitler to live in France. And above all, bless them for staying in France only long enough to arrange for their emigration to America. While I admire and respect French culture and food, their archaic economy and execrable government would have kept our family in mediocrity for the whole rest of the twentieth century. And can a country which gave the twentieth century the Dreyfus affair, existentialism and deconstructionism have any claim on intellectual superiority?

Continuing
"The U.S. is consistently ranked towards the bottom in primary education standards."

Yet private schools continually outperform public schools, even when schools catering to special needs individuals are included (don't repeat the cherry-picking canard) and at lower cost. Europe often allows school choice.

"The U.S. Healthcare system is ranked 37th"

I already addressed that discredited study and noted many of the demonstrable fallacies with the data.

"The U.S. spends around 16 percent of GDP..."

Again, already addressed. Besieds the correlation to prosperity, it also includes all of the vast cosmetic procedures in the US and the cost of all those who come here so as not to die waiting for socialized care.

"The U.S. lifespan is ranked 25th in the world..."

Actually its 50th and stable. It is driven primarily by genetics and behavior.

"The U.S. spends 15 percent ... the European Union has ... million manufacturing jobs ... current account surplus ... consumer debt ... The average U.S. corporation ..."

To ALL of those I can only say SO WHAT?!?!? NONE of them have ANY bearing on the discussion at hand, quality of life or economic sighnificance.

"The Governmental debt of the U.S. is over 600 billion yearly including the raids on the social security and Medicare trust funds."

All because of the massive governmental action that I am arguing against.

"Europeans have much stronger safety nets..."

...and are going bankrupt that much faster (except Norway with its massive oil wealth). many Europen states have higher proportionately higher debt levels than the US.

"For every dollar of profit in the U.S. economy, we have over 6 dollars in new debt! Where is the Growth? In new Debt?"

And yet you make the case for more socialism? You are arguing against yourself!

S.V.P., Lonny
"...Since the EU came into existence, most restaurants, even the small bistros, have menus in English and French (some German and Spanish versions too)."

Really? I was there only 2 months ago and some French restaurants and bistros STILL had menus de Français seulement. Granted, Mickey D's probably has sort of an English menu.

"I had someone at the Louvre shop tell me to have a nice day (in English) after I spoke with him in French and told him I was from the states."

Did you ever wonder how many French speak English? No, someone told you to have a nice day in English, but did they carry on an entire conversation en anglais avec vous? Non. Of course, you had probably brush up on your Arabic because, according to population predictions, français will be passe' by 2049.

"Freedom fries anyone?"

Stupide.

"And the French don't like fat American women or men? Gee, what a shock, our overconsumption is mocked. Wow what an observation, Denise."

At 5'6" and 102 pounds, I think obesity shouldn't be mocked, but should be of concern since it affects one's health AND our healthcare costs.

"I never saw ketchup or tabasco in Paris or anywhere in France. That's a criticism?"

Where have you been? Six months ago, I asked for Tabasco for my oysters (the Louisiana girl that I am) and both the waiter and chef nearly had heart attacks.

"So they have strikes? They are much more flexible than we are as a people. Less spoiled."

Every week, they are more "flexible" and less productive. They PROTESTED Sarkozy's effort to increase the standard workweek to a whole 40 hours and modify the August paid for vacation.

Mon Dieu!


BTW, I LIVED in France so I know a little more about "The Frenchies" than the PA man that you are.

The relevant point
"Does it really matter if the average debt is $8000 or $11000?"

Wow, that's only a roughly 30% difference and ignores the fact that the MEDIAN figure is just $3,000 which is well within the means of most people, so the whole "living beyond our means" diatribe collapses under its own absurdity.

"Isn't that what the GOP has been saying about Obama's deficit spending?"

There is a fundamental difference. Personal debt is paid for by the voluntary decisions of individuals in the marketplace. Government expenditures (whether they are paid for by taxation or devaluing the currency - debt) come at the exopense of far more productive activity in the economy to the detriment of everyone.

"You don't have to live in Paris. How many times have you been in Europe, by the way? How often in the past 10 years?"

I haven't. Since the question is completely irrelevent, adds no weight whatsoever to your arguments or in any way undermines anything I've said in the least, what is the iobsession with repeating it? Anecdotal evidence cannot refute statistical data - ever - under any circumstance - no matter how many times you went there. Don't even attempt to take such an imbecilic stance.

Fletch
There's a lot of "quality of life" measures that are quantifiable. Life expectancy, adult literacy, percent with access to health care, paid days off from work, divorce rates, murder rates, infant mortality rates, vehicle accident mortality rates, for example. And of course, how many different models of expensive sports cars they manufacture. Europe does really well on this last one.

Learn to read, Jeffrey
The study indicating a large disparity between working hours in the US and Europe HAS BEEN "completely debunked". Credible studies indicate that while Germany and France Do work fewer hours (for FAR less pay) the disparity is very small and largely explained by the voluntary choices of highly paid salaried employees. There is simply no contradiction in what I said. Is it a failure to read on your part or a failure to reason?

"I know I sure don't get six weeks paid vacation, as all French workers get, by law. Or has that been debunked."

No, but then that is factored into the data and, agaion, they make far less money and are subject to much higher levels of unemployment.

Maybe it's time YOU took a break.

Well, Lonny
"I just gave you FACTS."

They have to be ACCURATE AND support your stance. The only FACTS provided (last post) fail the latter test.

"You are one of those Americans..."

Irrelevant assertions about what you THINK my opinions may be based on serve no purpose. I am presenting you with the facts that consistently are at odds with your positions. It has to do with which policies work and which ones do not.

Standard of living is an ECONOMIC MEASURE. If you wish to discuss "quality of life" that is not the same thing, but is entirely subjective and a rational argument of superiority cannot be made on such a basis.

"The government's programs allow them to have health care."

Rationing of care denies care (and to a level that is more lethal than in the US) in every country that has socialized medicine. Our system, with its millions of uninsured, does a BETTER job of providing care to the greatest percentage of the populace. The belief that "universal" care actually PROVIDES the access to care promised is pure mythology.

"You said that their standard of living in France is 2/3 of ours."

See above. And it's adjuisted for purchasing power parity so that it is NOT apples to oranges. Your stance is factually wrong.

"if that is socialism, then socialism is already here."

I never argued otherwise. It has demonstrably been a failure to the extent it has been implemented making people (particularly the poor) WORSE OFF so I am arguing against attempts to impose more of it.

"If the 'illegals' went home tomorrow, there would be no one to cut lawns..."

Please do not spout such obviuos economic ignorance in a public forum.

To bunk or debunk
I have not yet fact-checked the following observations:

The U.S. is consistently ranked towards the bottom in primary education standards. It has the most expensive education costs in the world.

The U.S. Healthcare system is ranked 37th in the world with 50 million people with no coverage, 100 million more with partial coverage and millions more deep in debt because of medical bills.

The U.S. spends around 16 percent of GDP on Healthcare while the European Countries Average about 8.5 percent. The U.S. lifespan is ranked 25th in the world and falling, the U.S. ranks 70th in the health of its citizens meaning those who are chronically sick, injured somehow or die.

The U.S. spends 15 percent of it’s gdp on Petroleum products throughout it’s economy, Europe spends around 9 percent.

The European Union has 40 million manufacturing jobs, the U.S. has 14 million. The E.U. has a current account surplus, the U.S. has an 800 billion current account deficit.

The U.S. has 2 1/2 times the consumer debt as the average European.

The average U.S. corporation has a much higher debt level then their European counterparts.

The Governmental debt of the U.S. is over 600 billion yearly including the raids on the social security and Medicare trust funds.

Europeans have much stronger safety nets including: Daycare, Free or cheap college education, Universal Healthcare, strong unemployment benefits, Sickleave benefits, 50 days a year off including holidays as well as Vacation time, retraining benefits.

Best infrastructure in the world including rail, roads, sewage, telecommunications and so forth.

The largest source of foreign direct investment in the world as well as the largest receiver of investment in the world!

For every dollar of profit in the U.S. economy, we have over 6 dollars in new debt! Where is the Growth? In new Debt?

Carlos
With Fletch's permission I have thoroughly debunked you.

You didn't lose your job today, too, did you? Poor Rick Wagoner, eh?

Fletch
sorry, I apparently don't listen to the talking points you do, I listen to no talking points. Does it really matter if the average debt is $8000 or $11000? If we are living beyond our means, we are not living a standard that is maintainable. Isn't that what the GOP has been saying about Obama's deficit spending?

You don't have to live in Paris. How many times have you been in Europe, by the way? How often in the past 10 years?

Good move
"US credit card debt is higher"

In other words, you have provided two links. one (that doesn't work) to that eminently useful The Straits Times, in preference to the official data provided by the Fed and then find another link to an article stating that the ABA estimates that average credit card debt is $8,000. That is actually an estimated increase over the mean figure of $7,300 for 2008.

But then, you argued that the figure was $11,000 and that it was the MEDIAN, when, in fact, even your link says that the MEAN figure is $3,000 lower than that and doesn't address the fact that the median figure is about $3,000.

Was it your intention to undermine your own position?

Husker2... Jeffie is a real hoot, eh?

This is what we Humans must put up with in Michigan - a bunch of hollow narcissists who are compelled to say something, anything.

They cut-and-paste their personalities (not kidding here).

It's sometimes called a "Repetition Complex". A cycle of Frustration and Rage. They get frustrated, then out pours the innards, the rage. It is unending.

This is often the result of incessant teasing as toddlers, creating the complex. They never get over it!

I really shouldn't make fun, their lives are of unbelievable mental anguish. Sad, very sad people.

More debunked liberal nonsense
The WHO "study" has already been thoroughly and completely shredded.

The American health care system is also one of the best in the world, particularly in comparison to countries with socialized medicine. In order to make the US look poor, it is necessary to assume - contrary to the evidence - that socialized medicine provides better access to care; to look at things that have absolutely nothing to do with care quality (such as life expectancy governed by genetics and behavior); to manipulate statistics (infant mortality figures are grossly understated throughout Europe, Asia, South America, etc. because live births are frequently not recorded if the infant dies as much as a week after delivery - and even the list of causes YOU provided do not contain a single care related item); and fail to recognize that the chief driver of health care expenditures as a percentage of GDP is PROSPERITY.

Studies of ACTUAL CARE show that Americans get more frequent visits with a primary care physician, more time with that physician, more access to diagnostic equipment and procedures and have a VASTLY higher survival rate when diagnosed with a serious illness.

Your talking points do not work when they are presented to those who have actually studies and understand the data.

Husker
I am incapable of writing an original post. I'm so sorry. May I continue to cut-and-paste?

It's a lost argument
"European countries tend to prioritize distributing income across a broader swath of their population than the US."

And yet the US STILL has the wealthiest poor in the world and they STILL have greater living space and more access to many amenities than even the middle class in EVERY country in Europe.

The argument that Europe is better because wealth is "better sopread" is faltly stupid. The unavoidable essence of that argument is that it is better that the rich do worse and that greater misery is shared by all than that the rich excell to a much greater degree than the poor even if the poor are materially better off. It's called cutting off one's nose to spite one's face. It's also called unvarnished, undisguisied, unmitigated avarice.

Fletch
Your credibility is about zero right about now. "Completely debunked" and then you go on to agree that American workers work more. I know I sure don't get six weeks paid vacation, as all French workers get, by law. Or has that been debunked.

Maybe it's time for a break.

Denise
What profound, and completely outdated, observations you have made. Since the EU came into existence, most restaurants, even the small bistros, have menus in English and French (some German and Spanish versions too). I had someone at the Louvre shop tell me to have a nice day (in English) after I spoke with him in French and told him I was from the states. So, that's an outdated comment, though undoubtedly popular with the Franco-phobes here. Freedom fries anyone? And how many French or others come to the States for a vacation who do not speak English to some extent? Imagine the clerk at Mickey D's, who can't even figure out how to make change, trying to speak to a non-English speaking patron.

And the French don't like fat American women or men? Gee, what a shock, our overconsumption is mocked. Wow what an observation, Denise.
I never saw ketchup or tabasco in Paris or anywhere in France. That's a criticism?

So they have strikes? They are much more flexible than we are as a people. Less spoiled.


Jeffrey
You have proven one point: you can cut-and-paste.

Try writing an original post, if you are capable.

(economicexpert.com?) You're joking, right?

Other stats
Go to the actual data from the US Census Bureau. It performs two surveys of health care coverage. The first most frequently cited study yileds a coverage rate of approximately 85% (which is where the figures of 46-47 million come from). The Census Bureau performs a second survey (reported in the same document) thet the Census Bureau EXPLICITLY STATES is more accurate which yields a figure of 92% coverage. Hence the lower figure.

Other studies indicate that as many as tens of millions of people are VOLUNTARILY uninsured - primarily young people. Most of these make considerably more than the average household income - the "can't afford it" canard has been LONG debunked. And some 15 million people are fully eligible for Medicare/Medicaid but have simply not enrolled. The position that there is a crisis of uninsured in this country collapses under its own absurdity.

Again, the ACTUAL facts are completely against you.

And now the talking points come out
"Compared with some other countries, such as France and Germany, the US has much average higher hours worked per person..."

THAT study has already been COMPLETELY debunked. The actual data show that average hours worked are higher in the US than in France or Germany, but, in fact, the difference is primarily among higher-paid salary workers who stay longer without compulsion. The difference diminishes tremendously among comparable hourly or lower-level salary workers.

"If leisure time were taken into account..."

The argument is specious. Again, you are presuming to decide for OTHER PEOPLE whether they are better off getting more time off or making more money. Neither you nor anyone else has the moral basis for making such a presumption.

"For example, if this extra 'leisure' actually reflects widespread employment..."

So much for that theory. The countries of Western Europe routinely have an unemployment rate nearly double that of the US.

Well, fletch
I just gave you FACTS. There are plenty of other sites for such facts.

You are one of those Americans who cannot get over the concept that this is not the only 'best' place on earth. You likely don't travel much, or if you do, you wander around wondering why they don't speak more English.
I don't reference France as an example of "government success at creating a better standard of living'. France's standard of living is created by its people. The government's programs allow them to have health care (no matter how you disparage it, some care is better than none, which is what uninsured people, whether 8% or 20% or some number in between, in any event, MILLIONS of your fellow citizens, have.

Superior? You said that their standard of living in France is 2/3 of ours. I pointed out, correctly, that you are comparing apples to oranges. They have a floor in their lives, Americans have no such thing (unless they are seniors). If they earn the same amount of money, they don't have to pay for health care. They get more vacation time, they get more sick time and family leave. Free time has value. That's what too many Americans have forgotten. Horatio Alger worked hard, but he spent time with his family, not like modern Americans.

You drive on roads created with tax money. Your kids go to state run schools. Health care is subsidized by many federal programs. etc, etc, etc, if that is socialism, then socialism is already here. Socialism to you means someone you don't like getting something you don't want them to have, i.e. that single mom who you denied an abortion trying to raise that kid.

My sister lives in LA. If the 'illegals' went home tomorrow, there would be no one to cut lawns, bus tables, etc. They do jobs for a lot less money than their capitalist owners want to pay, so selfish Americans like you can have cheaper meals and 'stuff'.


Jeffrey the victim...

Why don't you move to one of those enlightened nations?

No one wants to read your pissin' moanin' whinin' comments. We don't owe you a dime of our money, greedy one.

For Chripes sakes child, you have to be one of the biggest squallin' adult-child of an alcoholic fools in Michigan.

You ever look at what welfare did to Detroit dummy?


Equality of nonsense
"While the United States' mean wealth is the highest of any major country, its median income..."

...is ALSO among the very highest on the planet. The statement that it is "considerably lower relative to many other countries" is factually wrong [even Wikipedia gets THAT one right]. The rest of the nonsensical response is based upon that gross factual error.

"The United States also has more people below the poverty line than 26 other countries..."

Of course, in THAT ranking, population is not factored in and, as stated previously poverty rates are calculated differently from country to country and are incompatible. If the US used the levels of virtually any of those 26 countries, millions of the poor in this country would magically vanish into the calculation limbo.

"The wealthiest ten percent of Americans are 15 times richer than the bottom ten percent."

So. Again, the US has the wealthiest "poor" in the world (and by a wide margin). There is no economic or social basis for such a complaint. It can only be attributed to envy.

"In Japan, for instance..."

...their economic policies have resulted in a national debt far larger than the size of their entire economy.

"One uninsured person is too many."

That is your opinion and you are entitled to it...

...even if it is silly particularly given that universal insurance KILLS.

Lonny
Yes, I have been to France. In fact, I visit my sister 4 times a year. My real name is St. Denis Lanaux Daval Devereaux although I have sort of changed ma mere's INSANITY. I was named after the Patron Saint of Paris, who happened to be en famille avec mes ancêtres.

The French get irritated by:

Americans that don't even TRY to speak French or use hand signals.

Americans with a lot of junk in their trunks, if you know what I mean.

Americans who put ketchup or Tabasco on ANYTHING.

Americans that fail to understand why weekly strikes or that "car-burning" is a national pastime.

US credit card debt is higher
than UK credit card debt (average person), which is 8x higher than that of rest of Europe, like France (see, i.e. http://www.straitstimes.com/Breaking%2BNews/Money/Story/ST IStory_308900.html)
and let's see, average US credit card debt, from banking association (they should know, doncha think?) http://www.usnews.com/articles/opinion/2009/03/10/consumer -credit-card-debt-is-the-next-economic-shoe-to-drop-in-fina ncial-crisis.html...
"The average American family owes $8,000 in credit card debt, according to the American Bankers Association. According to the U.S. Census Bureau, the real median gross household income in 2007 was $50,233. It should be noted that today there is not always one single breadwinner, so that figure takes into account, in most cases, two incomes within the same household."

So, Americans live on credit. They don't get as much vacation time, paid or unpaid. They live over their means. How can that possibly be a 'higher standard of living' when they are in debt up to their eyeballs.

When did living within one's means become a dirty concept?

Different priorities
European countries tend to prioritize distributing income across a broader swath of their population than the US. The US likes to let people make lots of money, even if that leaves less money for the poor. I think there's a much bigger gap between the American rich and poor than in Europe.

HIV/ AIDS Raises Costs for All

AIDS is one of the only fatal diseases known to man in which, whether a person contracts it or not is ENTIRELY up to them. A few small modifications of behavior(read: personal responsibility), would have stopped the disease dead in its tracks years ago.

Washington, DC now has AIDS rates that rival some African Countries.

The specific attribute which distinguishes man from all other living species: his rational faculty.

Animals are incapable of using facts, logic and reason to make choices i.e. sex perversion.

Humans are capable of using facts, logic and reason to make choices i.e. Homosexuality.

Homosexuality is clearly a choice when practiced by humans.

The issues
"I thought Americans could disagree. Not here."

As the man said, "you can have your own opinions, but not your own facts". The facts are uniformly against you.

"I live just fine."

"But I don't think this is the greatest place to live. It is just one of many great places."

You are entitled to that opinion.

"Why do you have to put the French or English or anyone else down to make yourself feel better?"

We don't. But OBVIOUSLY when you reference France as an example of government success at creating a better standard of living, the validity of that stance is subject to examination. I have nothing against any individual in France, but the argument that their standard of living, their econonomic condition or their healthcare is superior in the defense of greater socialism here, it is wntirely appropriate to display the absolute absurdity of those positions.

"If this is the world's greatest place, why do you want to stop people from coming here?"

Personally, I have no problem with productive people coming here. But, as Milton Friedman put it, "It’s just obvious you can’t have free immigration and a welfare state."

"Heck, that illegal mowing your lawn might be the most entrepreneurial person in your town."

Possible, yes. Probable? Not even remotely. If he is willing and able to be a productive citizen, I say bring him on. If, like millions of illegals in this country, they wish to live of the public teat, they have no such entitlement.

other stats
Looks more like 20% are uninsured now (which is only what, 60 MILLION people?
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/03/24/health/main488806 4.shtml?source=RSSattr=HOME_4888064

8% uninsured of 300 million people is what,24 MILLION people. I like that use of the words, "by choice". What the heck does that man...they are buying beer instead of health insurance? I'm sure that is what you think it means. It means that anywhere between 24 and 60 million people have the RIGHT to be treated at their local ER, but don't get regular care because they cannot afford it. Do you think that they increase the cost for the rest of us? Do you think that when they get the tens of thousands of dollars in bills (average daily rate in Philly hospital is over $10,000 a day) they should be able to go into bankruptcy?

Health care
The American health care system is also one of the best in the world, but is one of the worst amongst developed countries. Life expectancy is a statistical measure of the average, or mathematical expected value, of the remaining lifetime of an individual in the given group. Infant mortality is the death of infants in the first year of life. Major causes of infant mortality include congenital malformation, infection and SIDS. Infanticide, abuse, abandonment, and neglect may also contribute to infant mortality. These statistics are poor in the United States, relative to other nations of its wealth. At the same time the United States spends vastly more per person on health care each year.

Working hours
Compared with some other countries, such as France and Germany, the US has much average higher hours worked per person, and it may be argued that much of the reason for higher incomes in the US is that people work more. If leisure time were taken into account in measuring the standard of living, the advantage of the US would be reduced. However, it is not easy to make fair comparisons of what this extra leisure time is worth. For example, if this extra "leisure" actually reflects widespread employment, it may not really contribute to the standard of living at all.

Fletch dear
I don't have time today to refute your nonsense. One uninsured person is too many.

(E)quality of Life
measures would seem to me to be more useful than a calculated per capita GDP.

While the United States' mean wealth is the highest of any major country, its median income is considerably lower relative to many other countries, reflecting a relatively unequal income distribution. Much of the extra money in the United States is the result of a much wealthier top section of the population. If the top five percent of the population is not included the average Canadian would be wealthier than the average American. The United States also has more people below the poverty line than 26 other countries; however, the measures used to establish a poverty line are controversial and may not always be comparable amoung countries. The wealthiest ten percent of Americans are 15 times richer than the bottom ten percent. In Japan, for instance, the ration is only 4.2:1. Some regard this imbalance as a product of the United States' long policy of having a more free market economy, while other countries are more ready to sacrifice net wealth in favour of equality.

Nice try Lonny
American income mobility is an establish fact. Again, 30% of those in the bottom income quintile will eventually reach the top quintile. By the end of any six year period, so many have moved out of poverty that the poor at that time little resemble the ones that were there six years prior. Those are facts.

Don't just fire your fact checker. Seek legal action against him for making you look so ill equipped to discuss these issues.

"so leave the rich alone, can't make them pay lots in taxes."

In actual fact, the tax burden has been falling steadily more heavily on the rich. That, too, is a well established and easily referenced fact.

"LOL."

Uncontrolled laughter coupled with a complete disconnect from reality and a tendency to make statements that are obviously absurd can lead to the removal of sharp objects, well padded walls and attire with sleves that tie in the back.

You might want to get that checked out...

wow
I thought Americans could disagree. Not here.

I live just fine. But I don't think this is the greatest place to live. It is just one of many great places. Why do you have to put the French or English or anyone else down to make yourself feel better? If this is the world's greatest place, why do you want to stop people from coming here? Heck, that illegal mowing your lawn might be the most entrepreneurial person in your town. Yet you don't want him here, do you? You want him to languish in his home country. Luck of birth, right?

It's fun to be a liberal
Whenever a liberal can't argue facts, they simply abandon credibility entirely and resort to (always useless) ANECDOTAL EVIDENCE. Can't refute the statement that France's standard of living is lower with facts, reason or data? Simply ask: "have you ever even been to France? Have you walked through their neighborhoods, shopped in their stores?"

Does this help your case? OF COURSE NOT. But it is already lost at this point so let's go for entertainment value, shall we?

Have your assertions about credit card usage been shredded with actual (sourced) data? No problem! Ignore that facts and baldly assert the position again!: "You can spin the numbers all you want, but Americans live on credit cards." You don't even have to admit that you "spun" the data (when it was completely wrong) to make your point in the first place! Isn't it fun to be a liberal? Reason, logic, facts are all dispensable.

Can't make a factual argument defending French healthcare (despite the fact that rationing of care in countries with socialized medicine KILLS more people per capita than delays receiving care in the US and that “uninsured” obviously does not mean “lack of access to care”)? There's always a convenient COUSIN IN SICILY we can point to!

"Meanwhile, we have how many uninsured?"

Roughly 23 million (less than 8% and many of them voluntary). Not familiar with that figure? That's because the Left likes to repeat the LESS ACCURATE (by their own admission) survey figure from the US Census Bureau.

If all else fails, simply disparage the data and apply your own personal moral assertions as if they are holy writ. Tell us what people don't "need". Decide you are better qualified to make the decisions of income vs. free time, etc. than the individuals actually making them. You can take any dictatorial role you want!

It’s fun to be a liberal! The intellectual atrophy is just a minor nuisance.

Lonny (Lon?)
You wrote: "If they have houses and cars and tvs, those come with a big price tag--less free time, less family time, both parents working, etc, etc, etc."

Whose choice is that?

Lonny (Lon?)
Social mobility?

Do you realize that 90% of all the millionaires in the U.S. did not inherit their wealth? They made it through hard work.

(Of course, we leave out that great hard-working millionaire, Ted Kennedy, who inherited his wealth from the rum-running trade.)

By the way, on this site, as opposed to the Huff and Kos, please refrain from the junior-high girl abbreviations of LOL or LMAO. Leave that to Hal.

Lonny -
Do America a huge favor and move your A%% to France - enough already.

Social mobility
an American myth, a good one, but nonetheless a myth. That's one of the main reasons we don't have revolts...people think that someday they will earn the millions, so leave the rich alone, can't make them pay lots in taxes. LOL.


funny people
have you ever even been to France? Have you walked through their neighborhoods, shopped in their stores? They don't envy us, they find us gross and overconsuming. Which we are.

My cousin in Sicily is 84 and gets dialysis 3x a week, with transit to and from. Is that the second tier you think is not good enough for us? Meanwhile, we have how many uninsured? I think that some middle ground would be appropriate, no?

You can spin the numbers all you want, but Americans live on credit cards. They don't need big houses. If they have houses and cars and tvs, those come with a big price tag--less free time, less family time, both parents working, etc, etc, etc.

Swampfox - I'll second that!
Swampfox wrote: "Being charitable with your own money and the taxpayer's money are two different things. Democracy will come to an end when a majority of Americans think that they can vote themselves an income."

Exactly! Great comment!

Will the Homo Idiot
It's your party dickless that is bailing out all of these failing corps. Pull up you pants and pull your small head out of your butthole befpre it gets stuck in there for good, or maybe that would turn you on. Your the King of Cut n Paste. All of your lines come alive on Huffy Puffy post but then you need to regurgitate them for us here at Townhall. Do us a big favor. Stay away and worry about gay marriage rights in California

The French Standard of living
Comparing the standard of living here to that of France is laughable. The scales are different. as an indication of that take the constant rioting of the contented middle class in France!
Even if the free healthcare doesn't kill you, the fact that there is very little chance of social mobility is enough for me to say no to that insanity!
Take from those who work hard, and give to those who will not produce... A recipe for poverty for all!
If I have a job, and want extra money, I get another job. With the french model, most of that money goes to the government for redistribution. Of what value then would it be for me to work harder or to innovate anything?

Sigh - the French reality
"By what criteria?"

The standard measure of stabdard of libing is GDP per capita (it works for every country with a middle class that is not distiorted by massive oil exports). The US figure is $48K; France comes in at $32,700. The official figures are gathered in the CIA World Factbook if you want to look them up.

"The average American's credit card debt is 8x that of the average Frenchperson's."

Source? In fact, the French are very strict on the release of that data and the US data used is typically the total household debt (not just credit cards). In reality, most Americans owe nothing to credit card companies. Most households that carry balances owe $2,000 or less. Only about 1 in 20 American households owes $8,000 or more on credit cards. Overall, the median balance for those carrying a balance in 2007 came to $3,000; the mean rose was $7,300. Source: The Federal Reserve "Changes in U.S. Family Finances from 2004 to 2007." Fire your fact checker. Your debt figures are completely bogus.

Moroevr, since health care in France is a tiered system that DOES include individual outlays but still yields markedly inferior care due to rationing, the reference hardly helps your case. Again, fire your fact checker.
"Would you have a McMansion..."

McMansion? Again, the US "poor" have much more living space than the French middle class. How specious a point can you make?

Your assertions about their better standard of living are pure fiction easily exploded with the actual facts. Do a little actual research, man; no one should be beaten so brutally.

Lonny @ 5:40 -- you
are disgusting. Who the h#ll do you libs think you are??? You and your socialist ilk are the very epitome of laziness and class envy. What is even more disturbing about you lazy socialists is that because you ARE SO LAZY and busy trying to figure out how to do "just enough to get by" that you don't even have enough brains to realize that our very FREEDOMS and rights as individuals is directly tied to free market capitalism. But that doesn't mean anything to you because all that's important is that someone tell you how to live, where to live, how much money you can spend, basically tell you at every turn what your LIMITATIONS are.

Our great country's forefathers are turning over in their graves at the sight of what you disgusting liberals are doing (trying) to this country. YOU WILL BE STOPPED.

Paranoia
Lonny,

As you say, paranoia is built on unfounded thoughts and fears. How about the realism of the recent comparison of Fidel Castro and Barack Obama by a Cuban refugee, Andrew J. Rodriquez, author of "Adios Havana".

Believe what you may, Let us pray that their actions and goals are dis-similar.

And if Not
I applaud your reply to Jeffrey:

"Yes, we EACH have that burden as Christians."

Precisely - Christianity is a personal relationship with God with the resulting personal mission as an individual.

If my taxes pay to improve the conditions at my local prison, this does not fulfill my responsibility to those in the prison.

In fact, individuals DO go to prisons to help prisoners with addictions, as an example. This is in large part a mission of faith. We are not PAID to do this with your taxes. This is an example of a Christian going to those in prison. Prisoners are NOT compelled to listen to us, by the way.

My thoughts. Thank you again, 'And if not'.

Giving to charity?
Being charitable with your own money and the taxpayer's money are two different things. Democracy will come to an end when a majority of Americans think that they can vote themselves an income.

French Standard of living
is 2/3 USA's? By what criteria? The average American's credit card debt is 8x that of the average Frenchperson's. EIGHT X HIGHER than in the USA! Right now, the average American household's credit card debt is almost $11,000. That means that the average French household's credit card debt would be 1/8 of that. Even if their 'standard of living' is 2/3 that of the US's, they are still living better because they are not as much in debt. Much better to live on what you earn, not live on deficits, isn't that what you righties blabber on about? Moreover, since health care is a given for the French, along with significant vacation and sick leave, the numbers actually support that they have a better standard of living than Americans do, don't you agree?

Imagine if your paycheck was cut by 1/3, but your credit debt service went down to 1/8 what it is now? Imagine if out of your paycheck, you didn't have to pay for health insurance premiums, deductibles, copays? Imagine if you got 4 weeks minimum vacation, plus other days?
Would you have a McMansion you won't own for 30 years, or more, if you refinance? No, but you'd have a house probably the size of those most of us grew up in. Would you have multiple tvs in all your rooms? Not likely a necessity, anymore than a bunch of cars when the government invested in mass transit?

And if not
“However, one shouldn't use this as justification for liberal wealth distribution schemes. Jeffrey can't discharge his burden by making someone else do what he ought to do himself. Libs tend to assuage their own feelings of charity by making someone else do the providing.”

The problem is, there’s a lot I can’t do myself. For instance, I can’t give medical assistance or legal assistance to poor people, but I can give to organizations that provide these services. Should I give money to the United Way? The Salvation Army? Or am I just “making someone else do the providing”?

I’m not sure it’s useful to generalize about “Libs,” especially when the generalizations are meant as a dig. Certainly, conservatives aren’t perfect in their sense of charity, either. I do find it troubling that many conservatives appear to leverage their hate of government by using it as a rationalization to avoid helping needy people.

You won't like the reality
"In France, the percentage of people beneath the poverty line fell steadily in the last 40 years, from 14% to 6% in 2000."

Of course, countries use drastically differnt definitions of "poverty" to serve differing political agendas. France's standard of living is roughly two thirds that in the United States. France's average unemplyment rate is roughly twioce that in the US. The poor in the US have average living space of roughly 25% more than the French MIDDLE CLASS. There is more income mobility in the US such that some 30% of those who are "poor" at any given time will eventually reach the top income quintile.

Try a littke context before passing the obvious drivel that France's system is in ANY way superior to ours.

During the last two years, however, the percentage has risen slightly, Berthe said.”

Theology by Jeffrey
"And yet Christ instructs us to feed the hungry, slake the thirsty, visit the prisoner, clothe the naked, welcome the stranger. He doesn’t appear to expect that we grill someone on his circumstances, or make judgments about whether they are deserving or not. Clearly, if someone is in prison, he must have done something wrong. Yet Christ says to visit him anyway. I guess what matters is someone’s condition, not how they got that way"

Yes, we EACH have that burden as Christians.

However, one shouldn't use this as justification for liberal wealth distribution schemes. Jeffrey can't discharge his burden by making someone else do what he ought to do himself. Libs tend to assuage their own feelings of charity by making someone else do the providing.


Sorry, Lonny
"You're the winner, man!"

Thanks. Twenty-five years of economic experience makes it possible to get my facts right on those issues.

"The median price of a house in Detroit is $41,000. That's not a typo. Why?"

That's easy. Because the Fed manipulated the money supply so drastically, it caused massive malinvestments, the investment bubble and the housing bubble. When it became unsustainable (as it must) the housiong market collapsed, unemployment began rising and, in the specific case you mention, sales of durable consumer goods like cars collapsed. It was entirely a governmental failure.

"We become a service economy, selling 'services' to each other."

There is nothing either more or less economically valuable between services and manufacturing. That myth was exploded well over two centuries ago.

"We become a nation of poor and rich, nothing in the middle."

THAT is gross factual inaccuracy. The ONLY way that the data can even be construed to demonstrate that the middle class (which is huge) is "shrinking" is you manipulate the numbers so that more people are moving UP from the middle class.

"Why am I not surprised that the party of the rich would want that."

Why am I not surprised that a liberal hasn't made any reasonable effort to get any of his facts straught?

I like this
I like the sentiment of the Europeans, with their shared sense of sacrifice for the good of the entire community. It’s very Christianly to me.

“If the American dream is opportunity, the European dream is equality. Europeans don't grow up believing that anyone can be elected president or build an empire out of a small business. But they trust the state to help make a middle-class lifestyle widely accessible with solid health and education infrastructures, ironclad labor protections and a generous system for the unemployed and the poor.

In France, the percentage of people beneath the poverty line fell steadily in the last 40 years, from 14% to 6% in 2000. During the last two years, however, the percentage has risen slightly, Berthe said.”

Source: LA Times

I wonder, maybe the middle class is an artificial construct created only with government support and nurturing.

Guns and Daughters
Jon in AZ...it's easy to cast aspersions on Mike while sitting comfortably before your keyboard, isn't it? In this case, my money's on Dr. Adams as to a) whether or not he owns a revolver in .357 magnum, and b) his willingness/ability to use it effectively.
As to guns and daughters, when my three beautiful ladies were growing up I generally made certain to be cleaning one or more of my larger caliber handguns when their chosen swains arrived for a date. Eau d'Hoppes Gun Oil pungently filled the air as I greeted them. All three daughters are now married to nice young men who treat them like the ladies they are. Two are mothers as well. As my granddaughters reach dating age perhaps their fathers will follow suit.

Silly article
“A little girl, age 10 tells her Dad that she wants to help the homeless, so he tells her that he will pay her $10 to rake the leaves in the yard, and then he will take her downtown to the supermarket where a homeless man hangs out. Then she can give him her $10. She looks at Dad, and says " why do I have to give him my money that I earned, why doesn't he get his own house?". Welcome to the conservative movement little girl.”


And yet Christ instructs us to feed the hungry, slake the thirsty, visit the prisoner, clothe the naked, welcome the stranger. He doesn’t appear to expect that we grill someone on his circumstances, or make judgments about whether they are deserving or not. Clearly, if someone is in prison, he must have done something wrong. Yet Christ says to visit him anyway. I guess what matters is someone’s condition, not how they got that way.

In the story above, the little girl said she wanted to help the homeless. The author doesn’t say why she objects to offering money. The anecdote is pretty meaningless.

Free markets and American car industry
Right now we have Ford, GM and Chrysler, all of which are in deep trouble. Why? Because of the damn union contracts they have been forced to sign with the UAW. Toyota, Honda, Mercedes, BMW and probably some other car companies make cars in this country don't have deal with UNIONS. Are the workers that work for the workers for the non-unionized car makers that much worse-off than the unionized car makers?

Plus Langiappe

(and, a little more N'Awlins style)

11) What is the minimum expected rate of inflation once recovery begins?

At the very minimum, inflation will be 5-8% when recovery begins, which will act as a disincentive for employers to expand and hire more workers. It will make feeding one's family, buying a car, paying tuition, and surviving cost-prohibitive in an evironment where the overall cost-of-living is dramatically higher than it has been.

12) Accordinging to the Washington Post and if Obama's budget passes, the Government will spend 82% of our GDP by 2019, which makes Zimbabwe look sane.

13) You will have to work 299.3 days a year in order to pay Uncle Sam.

14) Socialism always FAILS because the Government runs out of everyone's money, except for the funds of Soros, who made over $1bn by shorting the market, and the rest of the "shorters".

15) We all DIE.



F1etch
You're the winner, man! You buy the nonsense spouted by the 'free traders'. The median price of a house in Detroit is $41,000. That's not a typo. Why? Because the jobs are gone. We become a service economy, selling 'services' to each other. We become a nation of poor and rich, nothing in the middle.

Why am I not surprised that the party of the rich would want that.

Beignets, Cafe Au Lait, Et Un Peu
1) What is the GDP of the US in a good year?

~$14,000bn

2) What is the current national debt?

~$12,000bn

3) What will be the budget deficit next year?

~$1,300bn

4) How much will Obama's deficit add to the national debt in the next 10 years?

~$9,300bn

5) What is the estimated amount of unfunded mandates (social security, Medicare, and Medicaid) on the "books" of the United States?

Between $56,000bn and $75,000bn

6) At what income figure would the US government have to seize all income in order to pay down the CURRENT deficit and debt?

~$75,000

7) What was the effect of the debt saddled on each and every American from the Stimulus bill?

~$38,000 in debt was charged to each and every American.

8) What is the multiple of cash injected by the Federal Reserve in the last 6 months?

~279%

9) Are we currently in a deflationary or inflationary cycle?

Deflationary

10) What are two examples of depressions with hyperinflation?

The Weimar Republic in Germany during the 1920s through Hitler's rise to Führer in 1933.

Current day Zimbabwe where Mugabe seized all of the assets of the plantation owners to spread the wealth. Devalued Zimbabwe's once stron currency and destroyed the former thriving economy.




eddie too
eddie too
Location: NE
Reply # 55
Date: Mar 30, 2009 - 10:39 AM EST Socialists cannot succeed without

lying.

AND, OPM!

Jon in AZ
"You are a giant coward. When confronted with an actual crackhead or drug dealer, you would surely soil your pants and run away as fast as you could. I doubt you even own a .357 magnum.
"It's really easy to talk tough from the safety of your keyboard, isn't it?"

Jon bases this statement on what, exactly? Nothing I can see. Easy to call someone a coward from the safety of Jon's OWN keyboard, isn't it? This insult is baseless. How is Adams a coward?

"I also doubt you correspond with "Steve."

What does Jon based this professed doubt on, exactly?

"Your little parable is a worthless straw man that will only convince those whose brains have been rotted away by reading your columns, listening to talk radio, and watching Fox news"

Too much vitriol for the humorous story related by Mr. Adams. I think Jon must be afraid it will actually work if employed by conservative parents on their newly brainwashed college-aged offspring. Does anyone really think that hitting these new leisure-chair liberals where it will hurt (and being unfair and arbitrary in the process) won't shake up and restore the new lib to his senses?

I'm convinced, and my brain hasn't even been rotted away by Mr. Adam's columns, listening to talk radio or by Fox.

Jon in AZ
Dear Jon,
You are a giant coward. When confronted with a logical argument, you would surely soil your pants and run away as fast as you could. I doubt you even read the whole article.

It's really easy to talk tough from the safety of your keyboard, isn't it?

I also doubt you know Mike personally, and whether he is a coward or whether he owns a gun.

Your little rant, lacking in any ideas but full of offense, is worthless and will do nothing to dissuade anyone from continuing to read these articles.

Get the idea?

If you have something informative to say, please do. Otherwise, please keep the drivel to yourself.

Personally, I think the idea of giving the daughter the remaining $2000 and then going to a jail and making her hand it all out to inmates is a better, and safer, proposition- and it makes the same point.

Dear Jon
You are a giant coward. When confronted with an actual crackhead or drug dealer, you would surely soil your pants and run away as fast as you could. I doubt you even own a .357 magnum.

It's really easy to talk tough from the safety of your keyboard, isn't it?

I also doubt you correspond with "reality."

Your little diatribe is a worthless straw man that will only convince those whose brains have been rotted away by reading your earlier posts, listening to Bill Maher, and watching The Biggest Loser.

Addressing economic ignorance
“[C]orporations are supposed to make profits.”

That’s the ONLY thing that creates jobs, provides less expensive goods to consumers and gives us a higher standard of living. interference undermines ALL of those things.

“But they are short-sighted when they take jobs offshore because, at some point … they outsource the jobs of their own consumers.”

Judges? Buzzz!!! You don’t win the Ginsu knives or even a copy of our home game. Economic prosperity (and jobs) are created by economic efficiencies PERIOD. In fact, more jobs are INsourced into the US every year and they are, on average, higher paying jobs. If all the cars are made in Japan, those who used to make cars in this country don’t just sit around; they engage in OTHER productive activities that generate still more prosperity.

“Fairness” is irrelevant. If the Japanese wish to burden themselves further (they have a national debt larger than their whole economy) so that I can get a cheaper car, GREAT. That means I have more money to spend on other things creating still more jobs HERE. NO economic benefit is EVER gained by preventing producers from seeking the most cost effective means of providing better/less expensive products to consumers. It drives prosperity which is the ONLY source of job growth. Interference only destroys jobs.

Think back, those of you in your 80's and older...when government regulations tried to make sure that you knew your banker and that he wasn’t “outsourced” to another state. It was those unit banking laws that were directly responsible for all the bank failures that characterized and worsened the Great Depression. Aren’t you glad that “outsourcing” was stopped before people were hurt?

“Many of us are against obscene profit…”

Well, I guess we should just crown you dictator so you can define “obscene” based on the fairy tale of dangerous consumerism.

Socialism
Margaret Thatcher wrapped it up very succinctly in her comment on Socialism.
" The trouble with Socialism is that you soon run out of other people's money".

A little girl, age 10 tells her Dad that she wants to help the homeless, so he tells her that he will pay her $10 to rake the leaves in the yard, and then he will take her downtown to the supermarket where a homeless man hangs out. Then she can give him her $10. She looks at Dad, and says " why do I have to give him my money that I earned, why doesn't he get his own house?". Welcome to the conservative movement little girl.

I once met a school teacher, mid to late 30s, who taught home economics. She told me of a time in her first year of teaching, how she arrived about 10 minutes early to her first class of the day, and how she encountered a group of eighth graders (14 year olds) that were doing the math to see how many babies they would have to have to live on the welfare payments. This lady commented that she had been to school at ----- University for 4 years, so she wasn't completely clueless, but that this attitude absolutely blew her away. I heard this story over 30 years ago, and I often wonder what that lady thinks of our socialist welfare culture today.

I know what I think of it today, IT SCARES THE HELL OUTTA ME!!!

The Old Fart
Georgia