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Thursday, December 18, 2008
Mike Adams :: Townhall.com Columnist
St. Jude, Don't Make it Bad
by Mike Adams
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St. Jude’s, the local gay church in Wilmington, NC, is one of those churches that makes me glad I’m not a “liberal” Christian. Some years ago, they ran an advertisement that read “Whatever you believe, we embrace you.”

When I saw that “whatever you believe” ad, I was tempted to go to St. Jude’s one Sunday and tell them I thought the Holocaust was a good idea and that I liked cooking cats in a microwave oven. I just wanted to see whether they actually bought into moral relativism – a philosophy so vacuous that only college professors deem it useful.

Today, St. Jude’s seems to have softened its stance on wide-open “whatever you believe” moral relativism. Their website now actually lists several “core values,” which I assume means something like “absolute truths.” Here’s what the website says specifically:

“St. Jude's is committed to expanding our Core Values into the community. We are: Christ-Centered - Holy Spirit Led, (We are) God's Love in Action, (We) Celebrate LGBTQ & Straight individuals and families.”

It’s a good thing the St. Jude gay church talks about certain “truths” or “core values” because that is what St. Jude himself talked about in verse three of his one-chapter epistle in the New Testament:

“Dearly loved friends, I had been planning to write you some thoughts about the salvation God has given us, but now I find I must write of something else instead, urging you to stoutly defend the truth which God gave, once for all, to his people to keep without change through the years.”

In other words, St. Jude was concerned that people were going to come along and start to change things that were clearly prohibited by the Bible. Maybe even celebrate them. And for those who think the New Testament preaches only forgiveness - in contrast to the Old Testament emphasis on punishment – take a look at the very next verse of St. Jude’s epistle:

“I say this because some godless teachers have wormed their way in among you, saying that after we become Christians we can do just as we like without fear of God’s punishment. The fate of such people was written long ago, for they have turned against our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.”

I doubt all of the people at St. Jude’s heavily gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgendered church have read verse seven of Jude’s epistle, which is quoted here in the Living Bible translation:

“And don’t forget the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah and their neighboring towns, all full of lust of every kind including lust of men for other men. Those cities were destroyed by fire and continue to be a warning to us that there is a hell in which sinners are punished.”

So this is interesting. By actually celebrating homosexuality – as opposed to say, ignoring it – the St. Jude congregation is actually driving congregants towards damnation. An argument could be made for classifying this church as a hate group.

But, of course, the real St. Jude doesn’t think we should reach out to gays with anything like hate speech. In verse twenty-three he urges that we approach them with both kindness and caution:

“Save some by snatching them as from the very flames of hell itself. And as for others, help them to find the Lord by being kind to them, but be careful that you yourselves aren’t pulled along into their sins. Hate every trace of their sin while being merciful to them as sinners.”

One of my readers recently told me – in an argument about post-marital sex – that it was OK for him to be in favor and for me to be opposed. His reasoning was that he is a “liberal Christian” and I am a conservative Christian. Of course, what my reader really meant was that being a liberal Christian means having one set of rules for himself and another set of rules for everyone else.

Maybe it’s time for liberal Christians to get their own set of epistles. Maybe they should get their own set of Saints as well.

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About The Author
Mike Adams is a criminology professor at the University of North Carolina Wilmington and author of Feminists Say the Darndest Things: A Politically Incorrect Professor Confronts "Womyn" On Campus.
 
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Merry Christmas
A truce then? :) Merry Christmas truetolife. Merry Christmas all!

LoveIsEqual
We'll never see eye to eye--I know. However, I would like to wish you a Merry Christmas and a Blessed and Happy New Year.

Ok, truetolife
You just keep speaking the same dribble and NOT addressing what I said. Fine with me!

LoveIsEqual
Your mental illness is of the same depravity which I spoke of with the other mental illnesses--yet you're so deep into sin that you can't even see it. That is what happens when you are not in the presence of God and His grace.

truetolife #155
You stated: “Then when the pedophiles and those who want to marry their brothers or sisters or goats start clamoring for their "civil rights" you are willing to help them fight that fight??”

Honestly, your slippery slope argument and scare tactics are really getting old! No, of course I would not support them! Geez, when are you going to understand the difference?

Pedophiles harms and damages children! Our right to marriage harms NO ONE! Close relatives having sexual relations also harms children because there is proven scientific evidence that a child is at higher risk of being born with birth defects! And your inane comment about goats is not even worthy of response!

anderson659
Yup! Not only my hip waders--but I've also discovered that I have to carry a shovel!

LoveIsEqual
stated: The difference is that my moral convictions do NOT include discriminating against others or trampling on the Civil Rights of others!

Then when the pedophiles and those who want to marry their brothers or sisters or goats start clamoring for their "civil rights" you are willing to help them fight that fight??

truetolife #151
What is wrong truetolife? Do you honestly think that only Christians can have a conscience? Sure I have a conscience and I have sound moral convictions! I do no harm to others, I participate in my community and society, I pay my taxes, I follow the law, I donate to charity, I exercise my voting rights. In short I do everything with my moral convictions always in mind.

The difference is that my moral convictions do NOT include discriminating against others or trampling on the Civil Rights of others!

Do you love them enough to tell them...
We have become milk-toast Christian's not out of love, but because we abhor conflict and wish, among all else, to be liked. This type of Christianity is not biblical... see: Matthew 26-42.

If the members of St. Jude’s, the local gay church in Wilmington, NC, truly love those they are reaching out to, they have to ask themselves if they love them enough to tell them the truth... knowing full well that eternity hangs in the balance for those they claim to love, and that they themselves may be vilified for having done so.


Anderson #150
Anderson I am absolutely not criticizing your Christian beliefs! Please get that through your head.

It is Christians who use their beliefs to enshrine discrimination into Civil laws and Constitutional revisions that we criticize! When are you going to realize there is a BIG difference?!?

You are condoning Constitutional revisions that deny equal rights to LGBT people because of your beliefs. Then if we fight against that and fight for our rights, you say we have no respect for your Christian beliefs!! You basically expect us to just sit back and accept less than equal treatment to prove that we are not criticizing your religious beliefs!!

What kind of convoluted logic is that?!? According to you we have no right to fight for our civil rights because the second we do, you accuse us of not respecting Christian beliefs!

And you cannot even see the hypocrisy of that statement. We are fighting for our RIGHTS Anderson! You and others are fighting to take AWAY our RIGHTS or prevent our RIGHTS from being granted! Those who would do that ARE the ones who do NOT respect others!!

LoveIsEqual
You are a minority in more ways than one. Most people have consciences. You denied yours a long time ago and now the devil has moved in and distorted truth into lies for you.
I have no doubt that your mom loves you. I respect the fact that she never accepted your lifestyle--we should never cave in to the devil's wiles while still accepting one another as God's children, made in His image. There's always hope.

I hope truetolife wore her hip waders
Why do you continue to post fabrications??

" A growing number of religions" ?

What? More and more branches of DENOMINATIONS are turning against homosexual marriage.

Learn the difference between RELIGION, and DENOMINATION.

The three major RELIGIONS in the world do not support homosexual marriage. They make up more than 95% of the global popuation.

By the way, how can you ever criticize Christians, so you are not one? you chastize me, claiming I have no idea how homoexuals feel, etc.


And now you, are not even a christian, yet ctiticize Christian feelings and vies as if you have authoriy and knowledge.

Oh, I get it, you can criticize Christians, and claim you are correct, however if I disagree with your point of view it fails because I do not understan homosexuals.

Yeah right.

Gestell on Swampfox
Total, complete absolute fiction. I left my post to him on the thread you were referring to.

Go back and read it, it is obvious you never did in the first place

Typical of you to mis-state what was posted to him. Believers stated what they felt. Call it what you want they feel the truth was told.

Only a total synthetic grievance monger, such as yourself, would refer to it as anything else.

You should be ashamed of yourself. You should extend Swampfox an apology for posting fabrictions in his name.

Another total distortion.

truetolife...
You have not changed the fact that a growing number of religions and denominations believe in marriage equality! You can’t change that fact just because it is unpleasant to you. MANY heterosexual Christians and religious people also believe in marriage equality!

There have always been homosexual Christians and ones of other religious faiths but YOU see a conspiracy! How typical! Now how do you explain that many HETEROSEXUAL Christians also believe in marriage equality?

For myself I have never claimed to be a Christian myself! I stated in another thread as you might recall, the following. I grew up in a Christian home and when my Mom found out that I was gay she had problems accepting it at first. But in time she did accept me for who I AM and though she never agreed with me being gay she still ultimately accepted me and loved me no less! I also said and always have that I have Christian friends because contrary to what you believe we do not hate or dislike Christians. As you have said “we hate the sin NOT the sinner” and it is true of us as well.

We hate the fact that Christian beliefs are used as a reason to discriminate against us but we do NOT hate the person. When rights are being denied to us, we fight back as anyone else would who is not being treated equal. That is not a sign of hate but rather determination that we will ultimately achieve true equality.

The Christian friends I have have seen some of these TH threads and are appalled at the bigotry! You don’t have to believe me – I really don’t care! You can hear for yourself in the news about religious organizations that DO support our marriage cause along with other LGBT rights issues.


There will probably be conservative psychiatrists (based on religion or otherwise) who will feel the way you do for some time yet to come. But those are denounced officially by the medical and scientific community! You are in the minority on that one truetolife, just as we are in the minority in being LGBT!!

and furthermore
this is the latest in your tactics--pretending to be "Christians." You see Christians as your last "enemies" in this deranged fantasy of "equal rights." And so, all of a sudden, every homosexual on these threads have become or are part of a "Christian" church or have "Christian" friends who accept your depraved actions. Give me a break. The truth is not within you. And REAL Christians will not be duped. EVER.

LoveIsEqual
among all of your accusations was this: So even though many same sex couples believe in marriage to the same extent you do, they don’t have an option in your book!

It's not MY book. I am quoting the One who IS HOLIER THAN THOU.
But guess what? I also meant "literally" in my textbooks--homosexuality is certainly listed there and I graduated from college in 1975. With a degree in Psych. And in 1973 all the militant activist homosexuals had already taunted and PC'd the APA to take homosexuality out of its listed mental diseases. And how much has that helped you with your mental illness??? Ignoring mental illness does not make it go away. It only leads to more deception and more erosion of our society. Your behaviors are sinful and I will NEVER be a false prophet like you. You and your partner are not married in God's eyes--only in your little world. I will continue to fight the good fight. Faith and politics MUST intersect and those Christians who live their faith WILL continue this fight. And we will be blessed for it.

Further truetolife
Your statement: "despite what LoveIsEqual's tainted info is that the APA was PC'd into taking homosexuality out of all the textbooks in 1973. It's still in my textbooks!!"

IS again YOUR opinion and also just shows your holier than thou attitude. "It's still in my textbooks!!" says VOLUMES about you!

Your textbooks are somehow better than the APA who is much more knowledgeable than you?!? You want to sell people on YOUR views of psychology!

As I said “holier than thou”.

truetolife Part II
And then you cannot understand why we refer to people like you as ‘holier than thou’! If you are so sure that God condemns same sex couples having sex, then let HIM tell us on that judgement day you are so sure is coming! It is NOT your place! AND it is certainly NOT your place or anyone’s else’s to enshrine laws that favor your religious beliefs and deny EQUALITY to us or anyone else!

It does NOT matter how ardently you believe what you believe, it IS a violation of the first amendment!

Separation of church and state is there for a reason and it goes BOTH ways! Many religious faiths and/or denominations AGREE with marriage equality. The fact that you don’t think they are valid is irrelevant!! For the laws to favor YOUR religious beliefs over theirs IS a form of state sponsored religion which also violates the first amendment!

truetolife Part I
My intent was not to misquote you and YES I know that you have stated many times that you believe the ACT is what is sinful! Excuse me for that, it was not intentional.

Now with that out of the way it really does not change anything! You would have homosexuals live a life of celibacy (or somehow ‘convert’ to heterosexuality) to earn a place in heaven. There, is that an accurate quote?

So in other words to you it does not matter that same sex couples can love the same way as straight people. Even for those couples (like my husband and myself) who are 100% monogamous and committed to each other for life, you still view our lives as one which will send us to an everlasting HELL!!

So you tell us that sex outside marriage is sinful and will send the person to hell if they don’t repent. Then you would tell same sex couples who truly love each other that they CANNOT marry so they could make love ‘licitly’! So it does not matter how much a same sex couple believes in love, dedication and monogamy – to you they have no avenue except complete celibacy!! Or otherwise go to HELL and suffer damnation for eternity!!

So even though many same sex couples believe in marriage to the same extent you do, they don’t have an option in your book!

ted
I noticed that no location came through for your post. Interesting.

just for the record
ted is also a false prophet. We were warned that there would be many. Anyone who says that sin is good is a false prophet. Don't be fooled--satan prowls the earth looking for victims to consume. It is not sinful to be a homosexual. It is sinful to lust, it is sinful to have extra marital sex. Marriage was ordained by God to be between one man and one woman. God's rules are so easy that the merest of children understand them. It is the heart of man that has loathed God's laws and demanded that God be put aside for the god of moral relativism.

wearisome
Many of you think all gay people are going to hell. Many of you believe all Catholics and Jews are going there too. And an arm's length list of other you are sure will be damned.

What you don't know much about is Christian love.

Those of you eager to hurry gay people on their way should consider two things.

Jesus said in John 10:16 "And I have other sheep, that are not of this fold;” --- You do not know who all is in Christ's favor. Maybe He likes our showtunes.

Jesus said "I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.' How many of you have booted gay people out of your churches? Ridiculed? Hated. Banished? Disowned? Beaten? Scorned? Felt superior to? Ignored?

Sexual orientation is a genetic trait like being left handed. To tell God you refuse to use your left hand because The Church thinks it's sinister is a special kind of heresy. You know in your heart which hand you favor - just as you know in your heart which gender you prefer. No one can change that. Left handedness is a NATURAL trait. So is sexual orientation. Someone has to do all of the things gay men and women do for society. Without us you'd be scrou'd. Who'd cut your hair and tell you it's fabulous? It is also interesting to note all of the church choirs that love their gay people to make Sunday music but won't give them the time of day during the week.

reply to anderson 569
My story isn't a fabrication, but of course, I doubt you'll believe me. I posted this on more than one thread because one of the things that seems to get you right-win Christians ready to lock and load is homosexuality. I gather that for Real Christians, homosexuality is the worst form of sin there is. Now, I don't have that truth in my Bible, but hey, what do I know?

If you have the capacity for it, try to read some of the comments directed at Swampfox. Many of them are cruel, filled with loathing and hatred. How do you think these folks would react if they met Swampfox at their church door this Sunday? Would they close the door to her? My Fake Christian church wouldn't, so yeah, I think my way is better than yours.

And we also all know
despite what LoveIsEqual's tainted info is that the APA was PC'd into taking homosexuality out of all the textbooks in 1973. It's still in my textbooks!! If he knew anything about Christianity and what the bible says about false prophets--then he would also know that HE IS ONE. The blind leading the blind. Christianity is not consistent with accepting sinful lifestyles. Plus--I've never said that God condemns homosexuals to hell. Sheesh. Nice try though, LoveIsEqual. You see--saying untrue things is so ingrained in you that it is impossible for you to recognize truth at all. We condemn ourselves to hell by our own choices. Good and evil is set before us--it is our choice to accept one or the other. It is not possible to have a foot in each kingdom. That is what homosexuals are trying to do with "accepting" their lifestyles and saying they are also Christian. This is also their latest tactic. I can see false prophets a mile away--and you, LoveIsEqual, are one. Being homosexual is not sinful--it is the acting out of those inclinations which is the sin. Same as any extra marital heterosexual sex. All sinful. And marriage is also ONLY between one man and one woman--saying it is not does not make it so.
Also--I was always under the impression that Swampfox was a man so it was odd to see you refer to that handle as a woman. If you're a woman, Swampfox, sorry that I have referred to you as a man in the past.

Jo and truetolife
Why do I say it might be more difficult in SC? Because it is true that it might be, there is nothing bigoted about stating a fact. I say that because SC is a much more conservative area. I live in CA where finding such churches is pretty easy and are readily available in most places outside extreme northern CA and the central valley. Nothing disrespectful was intended.


And I’m not attacking anyone. I am encouraging Swampfox to seek her own path but to not deny who she is. That denial is obviously causing a lot of her pain. I suggested that she seek professional counsel but to be careful about who she selects because some out there (as I pointed out in the links) have a primary goal of trying to “convert” people to heterosexuality instead of trying to help them come to terms with who they are!

The APA has stated this is wrong by far and large. The goal should be to help people come to terms with “their” sexuality not to try and make them be what society thinks they should be.

And you personally may not have said God condemns us per se but many others such as truetolife HAVE!

Truetolife: I’m not a false prophet because I’ve never claimed to be a prophet of any kind!! I am offering my suggestions to Swampfox because she is clearly in a lot of pain and I happen to care about that and I care about her!

And you and I may not agree on things but you also know that I have been VERY consistent about who I am and what I say because I speak the truth as I see it! I think you know that, no matter how much you disagree with me!

And JO, there is more to supportive counsel than trying to 'convert' someone. If the only goal of a particular church is to try and 'convert' someone, it is in many cases psychologically damaging as the APA has stated.

Swampfox
LoveIsEqual is a false prophet.

Love Is Equal
don’t let others control your life by telling you that you will go to hell and that God condemns you for who you are. There are so many Christian churches who do NOT believe this way! I know it might be hard to find a more supportive Christian church in SC where you live but might I suggest you search around?-- LoveIsEqual

=================================

First off, God doesn't condemn those who try to live by his word. He only condemns those who don't try to make the change and encourage the sin.

Second, Christian churches that promote homosexuality are not really Christan churches. Christian churches that counsel homosexuals in their sex addiction are.

Third, Christians didn't make the rules, God did. So you are attacking the messengers not the source - which is God.

Last, you are a bigot. Why would it be "hard" to find supportive counsel in SC??








Swampfox

Subject: To Jo
I have never been "straight".
swampfox

================================

I did not say you were.

Some influence has been surrounding you consciously or subconsciously.

This influence has to be dealt with. You can be who you wan to be by your own choices.

We can't blame God, or gene's or society for our own desires. They are crutches.

You create your own reality. All you have to do is CHOOSE it.

And don't allow anyone to lead you astray from what YOU believe, that means Christians or other gays. Do what YOU think is right.



anderson659
Jo- about Gestell
He cuts and pastes this story on multiple threads.
anderson659

======================

Thanks for the heads up, I will avoid Gestell.

Gestell the drive-by poster?


To Zach
I assure you that I am all very much HERE.

Swampfox,
"Accept who you are".

If you have doubts about who you are in your own skin,please remember this:

You have value as a person. Period. That is first above all.

Sometimes night thoughts will suggest you need to look at yourself, and where you are headed in life.

If you have that need, forget about what LoveIsEqual says about who you are, and who to avoid, etc. Talk to anyone, that even includes LoveIsEqual and:

Sort out the problem. For yourself. Remember, it is you that has to live your life, and your choices. Not anyone who offered advice to you. Only you walk in your shoes, no one else.

Take the problem down to its very lowest denominator. Sometimes all of us wait for a sign,a signal, or ?

Take care,

Swampfox..
Swampfox, first and foremost you need to accept who you are and don’t let others control your life by telling you that you will go to hell and that God condemns you for who you are. There are so many Christian churches who do NOT believe this way! I know it might be hard to find a more supportive Christian church in SC where you live but might I suggest you search around?

At the very least, search one out talk with them and let them give you the true Christian beliefs and not those of hard core evangelical Christians who are teaching that God is some vengeful entity who will condemn you because of who you are!

Seek counseling but find a counselor who truly understands homosexuality and not one whose only purpose in life is to try and ‘ex-gay’ you! There are still sadly psychiatrists out there who believe in cruel conversion therapies and they do nothing but harm you further.

See:
http://gaylife.about.com/od/religion/i/ex_gay.htm

One article by UC Davis showing that ex-gay ‘conversions’ are largely bloated to serve the interests of those who are determined to rid society of gays.

http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/rainbow/html/facts_changing.h tml

Zach #129
Zach it is completely incorrect that you cannot be gay and be Christian!! There are many gay Christians in this country and in the world!

It is your kind of ‘holier than thou’ attitude that is contributing to the turmoil that Swampfox and others feel!

Swampfox isn't all their...
One moment he/she is talking about being gay, and then talking about having you read Bible passages condemning and damning those acts.

And you know what swampfox, you cannot be gay and be a Christian.

it's all or nothing. It's not a hormonal imbalance (though that could embolden it, in the same way you chemically neuter dogs or something) that makes you do it, it's because you're sick, and want to get into heaven without dishing anything but you morality out. (and by dishing I mean without truly being a Christian). I'm gonna pray for you, because you are going to lead one bitter life.

Bottom line, being a Cafeteria Christian gets you expelled, unless you fess up and stop smoking in the boys room.

swampfox- on freddie
Freddie was right. Man and woman were created for each other. Call them what you want, but call that a creation of God.

How can you figure that any different?

By the way, why did you post your comment that you have never been straight?

Very cute, Freddie.
Freddie writes, "The bottom line [sic] is this: God made Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve; or Eve and Eva." Your wit is childish ...... in my opinion. Perhaps you should read Matthew 19.

To Jo
I have never been "straight".

WISE UP SODOMITE
Swampfox writes:

"My life has been a total celibate life, coupled with near total silence. I tried to will/pray the gay away. What it only caused was depression, anxiety and then last year major depression. I nearly took my own life. I spent 17 days in the mental hospital. How long did I try to pray/will the gay away ..... decades."

Perhaps the article on the link below will shed some enlightenment:

http://www.narth.com/docs/pieces.html

You clearly have some issues to explore in order to resolve your SAD = Sexual Attraction Disorder.

The bottom line [sic] is this: God made Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve; or Eve and Eva.

Gestell
Where's the courage in condoning sin? You think God blesses you for that? Moral relativism is a tool of the devil. Being a fighter for God is in no way being "un-Christian." Not a fighter in the "emptying a clip or two" way like you stated. But putting on the armor of Christ and being part of the church militant are what we are called to be. Moral relativism is a cop out for people who are afraid to be persecuted for standing up for truth. Those lesbians are not sinning for being lesbians. But if they are engaging in sex, that is surely sinful. Just as sinful as any premarital or extra marital sex-- be it homosexual or heterosexual sex.

PROMOTING THE GENERAL WELFARE
Jo wrote:

"Our government was put in place to over see the GENERAL "welfare" of the people -- not INDIVIDUAL welfare of the people."

"Promoting the General Welfare" is not the same as "promoting Welfare Generally."

A small but not insignificant point of differentiation.

Jo- about Gestell
He cuts and pastes this story on multiple threads.

My personal opinion is that it is a personal construct of Gestell, meant to reinforce his opinion of Christians who do not think his way.

Many of the homosexual militant crowd have no problem fabricating oppression so they can have an excuse to be angry.

Your last line is probably correct.

Gestell - MA
Your wrong most churches I've been to (I lived in the Bible belt (AL) and still live at the end of it - N FL)and the people don't hate gay people - they hate the sin of being gay.

In fact many of my friends are gay, and I have two *Baptist* friends that have gays in their families. They still love them they just don't approve of their sexual preference.

You need to get out of MA on occasion (I lived there, grew up in VT and NH too) not all states are as bigoted as you seem to think. Especially the southern states, they really have a bad rap -- and are nothing like the NE, CA or Midwest thinks.

Your snide comment of "unload a clip or two" shows how bigoted you are of other religion denominations. Very "fake" Christian of you. Maybe you are a fake after all.

Swampfox
No one should live like this. I feel terribly for you! I have a dear gay friend of 30 years he has the same issues. Very depressed sad and confused. He wasn't like this when he was straight. You are not alone in this battle.

Do you have a church nearby where you can get counsel? God loves you and understands your heart, he only asks that you talk to him and tell him what change you want. If you've tried this and it has failed, try again in a different place. I had a terrible life at one time, and I made a choice to get up every morning and thank God for something I appreciated - trees, food I had, just something, I started doing this three times a day, then more, and suddenly things were going well for me.

God will listen, but you have to tell him. Good get's more good -- bad thoughts bring more bad thoughts, God answers ONLY what you ask for - so don't think bad thoughts. or you'll get more of them. When you do slip, change your mind to happier things, distract yourself. (Remember evil is the part of you that says "I can't do this". Don't listen to that - change your own mind when you think things like this!) I often grumble about house cleaning - but then say out loud "But I'm grateful to have this house! And turn on some music to distract myself. I'm telling you it works, but you've got to REALLY try hard.
Gratefulness of Gods daily gifts (even the smallest of things like the vacuum), faith and trust that he will provide will work - plus others who think like this help too. Try it.

Good Luck!

Subject: Fake Christians and Real Christ

Full disclosure: I'm a member of a Fake Christian church. It's one of those mainline Protestant denominations, so Real Christians know it's a Fake. A couple of Sundays back my church welcomed new members who officially joined our congregation. There were several families with children, an elderly husband and wife, and two women. The two women's names appeared in our church bulletin right there in the list of new members. Our pastor introduced them together, as he did the various husbands and wives. All the new members stood at the front of the church for our very brief formal induction. Afterward, all of the new members went to our coffee hour. The first members of the congregation to introduce themselves personally and to invite the two women to come to an activity of our church's couples group were a retired Navy captain (missile sub) and his wife. I guess he missed the anti-gay lecture at Annapolis. Of course, everyone who wanted to join our church had met previously with the pastor, so it was clear he had no problems welcoming the two women.

No one in our congregation walked out, stood up and rebuked the pastor or the women, or threatned the wrath of God on our congregation. That's how I know that mine is a Fake Christian Church. In a Real Christian church, howls of self-righteous execration (or maybe emptying a clip or two) would be in accord with God's teachings. Real Christians know whom God loathes, and want to help Him do it right.

Oops, not perfect or without sin.
Read Matthew 19 .......... you can read Matthew 17, also.

Matthew 17
I think we should all read Matthew 17 and the entire passage in The Bible about the entire story about the sins of Sodom and Gomorrah.

My life........
My life has been a total celibate life, coupled with near total silence. I tried to will/pray the gay away. What it only caused was depression, anxiety and then last year major depression. I nearly took my own life. I spent 17 days in the mental hospital. How long did I try to pray/will the gay away ..... decades.

anderson659
"I find it ironic that the modern day Sodom and Gomorrah is San Francisco. I wonder why, of all cities in the country, that homosexuality should be so concentrated in one area that is so easily devastated naturally."

Very interesting point and too true! We know that God will not be mocked and we reap what we sow--there will be much trepidation for ALL sinners upon Christ's return or our own particular judgments (whichever comes first). But for those who refuse to believe that they are sinners--the cost and fear will be immeasurable...

Semantics
The right to do something

you can't do anyway.

Myself a pro ball player,

I should not ever say.

Can a flock be a herd?

Or a bird is a bat?

Most would agree,

Something's wrong with that.

When things are different,

we give them different words,

Not "whey and whey" Miss Muffet,

there's a reason to say curds.

And claiming to be Gay,

when in fact I am straight,

The nonsense of this,

I doubt you'll debate.

But in the land of make-believe,

California is the name,

We thought we'd pretend,

that everything's the same.

Our language had been changed.

What lengths was it to be carried?

Those two guys shacked up,

Are no longer married.


Reply #30
JMO50 says:

"Finally, he who is without sin should cast the first stone. I think conservative churches and their parishers should spend their time reflecting on their own shortcomings as none of us is without sin or human frailty or weakness."

That's called a "moral equivalence" argument and not to put too fine a construction on it, sophist b/s.

There's a world of difference between behaving sinfully and being pulled back into line by one's conscience, compared with behaving sinfully and being told by spiritual leaders who should know better that one is entitled to do so with a clear conscience.

One approach condemns sin.

The other endorses it.

Swampfox

To Jo
So my only moral course is to be silent, celibate and pray that my orientation changes? swampfox

================

Well you won't be silent when praying and celibacy is choice.
But essentially yes, you'd have to change your life style and quit the sin. I know you won't agree with this. And because God gives free will - he gives the choice of Christ or Satan.



Christianlib
God views neglect of the poor as evil, worthy of punishment. Further, he holds governments responsible for making sure that the needs of the poor are defended. christian lib @ 2:40 something

=================

I agree with what you said above, BUT (you knew that was coming!) We do not "neglect the poor in the US.

God ALSO made clear you reap what you sow.

So if you are poor and taking *advantage* of your situation to live off other peoples money - this would be considered - slothfulness - and God would not approve of this. He wants a government that gave them opportunity or a JOB to pay their own way.

By now you must know what conservatives think about welfare. Not one of us is against helping a person to get on their own feet. We draw the line at encouraging the person to be slothful and dependent, which in itself is sin.

From proverbs:
“The sluggard's craving will be the death of him, because his hands refuse to work.” (21:25); he loves sleep: “As a door turns on its hinges, so a sluggard turns on his bed.” (26:14); he gives excuses: “The sluggard says, ‘There is a lion in the road, a fierce lion roaming the streets!’” (26:13); he wastes time and energy: “He who is slothful in his work is a brother to him who is a great waster” (18:9 KJV); he believes he is wise, but is a fool: “The sluggard is wiser in his own eyes than seven men who answer discreetly” (26:16).

Last one could be some posters here.;)

(not meaning you)







truetolife
Posters here spoke of Sodom and Gomorrah, the lessons of wrath concerning deviant behaviors.

In 1906 an earthquake struck San Francisco, and did horrendous damage, and loss of life.

I find it ironic that the modern day Sodom and Gomorrah is San Francisco. I wonder why, of all cities in the country, that homosexuality should be so concentrated in one area that is so easily devastated naturally.

Swampfox
states: Did those that wrote that the Bible understand that being homosexual was something that someone could not change and was not chosen? I don't think they understood that someone could not just pray the gay away.

Can someone just pray the depression away? The schizophrenia? The pedophilia? They're all mental illnesses. So is homosexuality. You have to DO something proactive as well as pray. Many have and many have been delivered from depression, schizophrenia, and homosexuality.

burkanuck1
states: Praying to saints is an affront to the saving power of Christ alone.

Don't be silly! Asking a saint to pray for me is no different than asking for your prayers. It is referred to as the "communion of saints." God is affronted if we DON'T talk to His Blessed Mother and ask her to pray for us!! You need to spend less time bashing Catholics and continuing bald face lies about us.

Well put, Lulu!
Good for you! Now we know it was all those darn casseroles! And here we thought it was perverted sex all along!

It's amazing how man attempts to justify his own sinful behavior.

Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.

Offensive?
Many of the comments to this column have been stating truth, yet many have had a "Flag as offensive" note appended. If the truth is offensive to the sinner, it's because it's supposed to be. The salvation of the sinner is at stake, for God's sake!

Christianlib...
God is the originator of the death penalty. Read the Bible, any version you choose, and it repeatedly warns that the wages of sin are death. So if you have a problem with that, take it up with Him!

He even tells us that man will have to face judgment and even a possible SECOND DEATH, if he is thrown into the lake of fire on judgment day.

Why don't you find out what the Word of God has to say about these things instead of wasting your time and everyone else's whining and complaining you don't like it and trying to justify your own ignorance? Get smart!

David - WA
so you are saying that Lot's neighbors innocently came over to his house just to meet his guests and have a friendly chat, and Lot was so disturbed by the thought of his guest's facing the horrors of the neighborhood welcom wagon that he offered the neighborhood men the sexual use of his virgin daughters instead? Wow all I can say is your interpretation makes perfect sense -- God must not hate sin but casseroles.

ChristianLib
you do realize in your 2:53 post you made a Biblical argument that would support the Iraq war and any such interventionist wars in the same circumstances. Plus although you say you are anti death penalty your post could be used to justify that as well. Just saying...

Jo
Keep at it brother - something may finally click.

Beth - OK
It wasn't lack of hospitality that destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah, it was because of the wickeness of the people.

When the men of the town got to Lots door they said:

"Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us, and let us *know* them."

Knowing meant sex.

They wanted to gang rape them.

Lot offered his own daughters "who had not known a man" to save the angles.

look at the whole thing
If you study the Bible in it's entirety, there is no way you can think that homosexuality (as we refer to it today) is acceptable in the sight of God. He is not only loving but holy. That's why Christ came--to forgive our sins. But that doesn't mean we can go on living in sin. We are to put to death the acts of the sinful nature including homosexuality.

"abomination"
The "abomination" in the story of Sodom was inhospitality, which is the one of the greatest sins throughout the entire Bible. Homosexuality (as we refer to it today) is never mentioned. Saying otherwise, or using a "Living Translation" of the Bible is just cherry-picking your argument. Very weak.

Doc.BitterOwnerClinger: You are a sinner as well. So am I. We all are. Don't act so high and mighty.

Yeah, get your own saints!
Aw man, now they're ruining the name of St Jude. Shouldn't that be St. Lance, or St. Julian?

Human "Wisdom"
"Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools." Romans 1:22
Liberal Christians and conservative Christians fail to exist. If one professes Christ as one's Lord and Savior with the idea one can change God's word concerning human conduct, one is not a Christian. Christianity fails to be a pick and choose belief. You accept or reject Christ and His teachings.

"Christianlib"
I love how you're all about aborting kids and then want to feed the poor and abolish the death penalty. You obviously don't care a lick about fostering a culture of life...if we just abort everyone then we won't need to worry about feeding anyone or sentencing anyone to the death penalty.

STUPID

christianlib
Subject: jo
and on your other point,

just as some conservatives feel they need to get the government to support their moral values i.e. pro-life, gay marriage etc...

i believe it is just as moral for Christian liberals to get the government to support some of our moral values also i.e. helping the poor, abolishing the death penalty etc.... -- christianlib

=======================

I'm not for government supporting anything BUT the constitutional law.

Pro-life violates the law.

Gay marriage violates the founding principal of the law.

I'm all for helping the poor -- I just don't want the *federal* government to do it. I truly think this is best left to local charities -- neighbor helping neighbor. However, if it is the wish of the PEOPLE, then local and state government ought to have these programs, after all we are *individual* states, with individual constitutions - under the umbrella of the federal government.

As for the death penalty -- Since the Biblical law was the founding of our constitutional law, I will refer to the Bible on that one. After all it is the ultimate law.

Christianlib - CA
Merry Christmas to you too.

Regan was correct. TOO much govenrment is the problem not the soultion.

We have created more and more and more government "programs" "offices" and "agencies" -- and where are we now? In a mess that's hwere.

GM is failing from multiple causes - bad managment, unions, regulation/taxation, but the catalyst (much like the financial mess) is government interference, OVER regulation, manipulation of the industry and political greed of power and wealth.

We can NOT force industry to pay excessive tax or follow excessive regulatory practices and expect them to stay and thrive in the USA.

Contrarily they are leaving in droves because of the restraint applied by government and unions.

Just like you and I they shop for the best deal. To keep jobs here we must make it a business friendly environment.

Bush was a republican centrist -- so your argument about his alleged inability to run the government clearly contradicts your own argument.

Please read the following careful:

Balance is what we need. No republican says we ought not to have *any* government regualtion, and certainly no one "hates" our government. We are simply trying to take it back from the hi-jackers in Washington who are breaking constitutional law.

We are trying to establish balance again. We are going too far down the socialism road, and that is unconstitutional in our republic.



I think
St Jude is the patron saint of lost causes

Christianlib- turn to the new testament
I don't think God intended for government to be dictatorial or tyrannical. Where do you draw the line between collecting enough to support and care for the poor and simply trying to bring down the wealthy? Define wealthy, while you are at it. And how do you decide when a "wealthy" person has "sacrificed" enough "for others"?

I believe that God intended for individuals to take responsibility for the problems in their communities. Funny, the Founding Fathers thought the same thing. Government can be a great tool, but the responsibility for caring for the poor is given to every individual. Just because you pay taxes doesn't mean you won't face judgement if you fail to act as an individual.

So why make the tax burden heavier and make it harder for individuals to do their individual duty? If we were a little less dependant on the government to fulfil our "duties", more individuals would take responsibility for the needy among us- simply because there would be more to give.

truetolife said
"They need to pray to St. Jude to intercede for them to return to God and His commandments. St. Jude will indeed help them"
I get the point your making but there is one problem with what you said.
You need to consult your Bible my friend. There is ONE intercessor between God and man and it is Jesus Christ. Praying to saints is an affront to the saving power of Christ alone.

my last comment
Every few seconds, one of us on this planet dies of hunger. If I were that child’s daddy, I’d be crying for justice. Why should my baby die, just because I was born where food was scarce? Was it my baby’s fault?

In the USA, thousands of people die prematurely each year because they did not have health insurance. If I were the man who’d just seen his beloved wife rendered mute by a stroke because they couldn’t pay for blood-pressure medication, I’d be crying for justice. Why did she have to suffer? She worked hard all her life!

Government is obliged by God to correct and prevent injustice. Those who die needlessly have been coerced. It is immoral for government, church, or family to look the other way. It is a repudiation of the example of Jesus and a major theme of the entire Bible.

Will some abuse government money? Of course! Limiting abuse is challenging and important - even Biblical. But anger toward abuse must not become an excuse for abandonment of those who suffer. We must urge that government fulfill its role.

That people be required to share their wealth through taxation is doubtless not God’s first choice. But that government would decline to act on behalf of the poor where society has failed to do so would be a doubly egregious evil.

I am a Christian. I will pray; I will learn; I will give. I am also a writer and a voter. And I hold in my hands the power to urge my government to become a bit more just and a bit less selfish. May I use it, as Solomon might, to

defend the afflicted among the people
and save the children of the needy;
[and to] crush the oppressor. …

ok don lets turn to the new testatment
by the way asking me change my handle and accusing me of not being a Christian belies your self-righteous claims.

you must have missed the passages that speak to judging others.


* In the New Testament, notice the similar tone of Romans 13, where Paul writes that all governments are “established by God,” and accountable to him to do good and to punish wrong. Again, the charge to secular government is two-fold. And remember, in Jesus’ eyes, standing-by while the poor suffer is wrong, and he sternly warns the rich that they may be punished for it.

Could God be pleased by voters demanding that their government collect taxes to care for the poor? God views neglect of the poor as evil, worthy of punishment. Further, he holds governments responsible for making sure that the needs of the poor are defended. The Bible assumes that some will ignore the poor or deprive them of rights that the rich enjoy, and God charges government with the responsibility for correction and prevention of such sin.

Taxation seems like a pretty mild way of enforcing a minimal level of shared responsibility for the human family, where people have failed to take it upon themselves. I say “mild” because God enjoins government to defend and support the poor, even to the extent of Solomon’s “crush the oppressor,” and (in Romans), government is “an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the evildoer.”

Perhaps this is where our culture is most at odds with the Bible: Neglect of the poor is sin. Wealth is evil unless it results in sacrifice for others. Once again, how different from modern practice, where gaining wealth is esteemed for its own sake.


don
first a majority of religious denominations are opposed to the death penalty on biblical and moral grounds.

i am talking biblical scholars and servants of the Lord who have it made it their lifes work to know and study the bible.

second, your interpetation of romans is not accurate.

here is conservative preacher chuck baldwin on romans 13.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig8/baldwin1.html

Christianlib Pt 3
"Christian conservatives claim to favor states' rights over the power of the federal government. Yet their proposal for tort reform will invest the federal government with considerable powers previously held by the states, the power to determine what lawsuits can be brought for product liability and securities fraud, and hence the power to control product safety standards and ethical financial practices. Why is this shift of power from the states to the federal government not considered a violation of states' rights by conservatives?"
Again, see my previous argument. There is not religious base for this discussion. Now, if you're talking the constitution, the federal government is to have little power other than to make and enforce treaties, make war (not love), regulate/enforce interstate commerce, etc. Anyway, where do you get the idea that, and that conservatives believe tort reform would give more power to the federal government. That's insane.
Please. Read your Bible or change your handle. You are not New Testament Christian!

Christianlib Pt 2
Christian conservatives are willing to increase the budgets for the military and for prisons on the grounds that they provide protection. But they want to eliminate regulatory agencies whose job is to protect the public, especially workers and consumers. Christian conservatives do not conceptualize regulation as a form of protection, only as a form of interference. Why?"
See my previous argument. The government doesn't do money well. Also, why is this a religious argument anyway. I'm not sure where I find any discussion regarding regulation other than government oppression and taxes in my New Testament.

jo
and on your other point,

just as some conservatives feel they need to get the government to support their moral values i.e. pro-life, gay marriage etc...

i believe it is just as moral for Christian liberals to get the government to support some of our moral values also i.e. helping the poor, abolishing the death penalty etc....



now we may disagree on those values but let me assure you they come from the same religious motivation.

Christianlib 11:04 Pt 1
Your logic and understanding of Biblical principles make your arguments inane. By your standard, the Bible is a conservative document.
"Christian liberals find it illogical that right-to-life advocates are mostly in favor of capital punishment. This seems natural to Christian conservatives. Why?"
1. The Bible, in many areas of God knowing a person before they are born. The Bible also has many areas that confirm capital punishment, including Roman's Chapter 13. "Does the government bear the sword for nothing?"

Biblical literalism
The "I'm right and you're wrong" mentality is precisely why many people find it hard to be believers at all.
The literalists accept whatever biblical translation they're reading as the absolute word of God, with no consideration for its linguistic history. The scriptures were written by men who knew less about the world than the average eighth-grader of today, in ancient languages that have been translated over and over. Some scriptures started out in Aramaic, were translated to Hebrew, to Greek, to Latin, to King James English and then to all the modern English versions.
So when Adams quotes St. Jude's epistle as referring to "lust of men for other men," I assume he's referring to what the King James version calls "going after strange flesh." My "Revised Standard" version says, "indulging in unnatural lust."
How does one translate those phrases to mean "men for other men"? It sounds more like bestiality to me, or just ordinary adultery.
How did the lesson of Sodom become so identified with homosexual acts? The answer is in the Hebrew word: yãdhà.
Yãdhà has two meanings: "to know" and "to engage in coitus." Of 943 times yãdhà is used in the Old Testament, only 10 times is it used to mean sexual intercourse, and all of these are heterosexual coitus.
When Lot invited strangers into his home, the townspeople said, "Bring them out unto us, that we may know them (yãdhà)." It seems they were asking to get to know the strangers, not to have sex with them. The sin of Sodom was most likely inhospitality, not homosexuality.
So, when you read your Bible, please don't think the words came straight from God. They didn't.

jo
how you doing? merry christmas by the way.

you say this

"No one wants to "eliminate" regulation, we advocate oversight but not the imposing of regulations that hamper the ability of the business to compete in markets and/or create an environment for politicians to receive bribes and kick backs, and expand their growth."


i do not disagree with that except that what happens (madoff is a good example) is that the idealogues decide that there is to much regulation and quit being vigilant.

reagans idea that government is the problem not the solution has caused great harm to the republican party in my opinion.

bush is the perfect example.

republicans don't like or trust government do when they get elected they don't take the power of government seriously.

that is why we got brownie and the 22 year old law clerk making decisions on U.S. attorneys.

i am not being quite as articulate as i want to be but do you get my point?

if you hate government, how can you run it.


To Jo
So my only moral course is to be silent, celibate and pray that my orientation changes?

Swampfox
I don't think they understood that someone could not just pray the gay away. Swampfox

--------------
God loves the sinner not the sin.
According to the Bible it is the influence/worship of Satan.

The individual has the free will to change this.

Read
Romans 1:24- ...
"the creature" is Satan:

25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet.

...

It goes on you should read it all. Not a pretty picture.

So Long....
This literal bible baloney is no better than literal Islam. That will be the last time I read a column by Mike Adams. First Dinesh, then Coulter, and now Adams have come out as fundamentalist Christian missionaries and completely lost their political perspective. Pretty sad.

16 year old chick in a bikini gene
I would really love to bang a 16 year hard body in a bikini. The devil temps me to invent a 16-year-old-chick-in-a-bikini gene.

But God tells me "That's my daughter, boy. Better control your impulses."

Living Bible "Translation"
I agree with your conclusions Mike, but your support for them is weak. That weakness is based on your use of the Living Bible "translation". Best to stay way from it because it's really a paraphrase, and a rather poor one. Try the ESV, plus some understanding of the Gnostic threat to orthodox Christianity that formed the context for Jude's letter, and find that Jude is more about unbelief (doctrinal perversity) than sexual perversity. Immorality was certainly an outgrowth of their errors, and homosexual behavior was certainly part of the immorality, but their core problem was false doctrine.

Thus, where you imply that Jude says we should reach out to homosexuals in mercy, that isn't what the text says. The text says we should reach out to doubters. Now, of course your conclusion is correct -- Christians are not to bash gays but to try to reach them lovingly with the convicting truth of the law and the saving truth of the Gospel. But you imply that the text says something it doesn't.

To Jack
"What arrogance. Did St. Jude and the other author's have your superior understanding?

You must be kidding. - Jack"

Jack, I question whether they had any understanding on the issue that "being" homosexual is not a choice that can be changed. Dr. Adams is consistent in remarking that gays have the same rights he has to marry someone of the opposite sex. My counter argument is that for me to do so would be an immoral and deceptive act.

swampy
God knows there is no such thing as a gay gene.

Christianlib (3)
Christian conservatives are willing to increase the budgets for the military and for prisons on the grounds that they provide protection. But they want to eliminate regulatory agencies whose job is to protect the public, especially workers and consumers. Christian conservatives do not conceptualize regulation as a form of protection, only as a form of interference. Why? -- christianlib

==========================

Again it is the governments job to protect the "general welfare" - this would mean militarily and criminal.

And you've got it wrong. No one wants to "eliminate" regulation, we advocate oversight but not the imposing of regulations that hamper the ability of the business to compete in markets and/or create an environment for politicians to receive bribes and kick backs, and expand their growth.



Swampfox
What arrogance. Did St. Jude and the other author's have your superior understanding?

You must be kidding.

To smallguy bigheart
"It's not being gay (meaning having same sex attraction) that is sinful. It is acting on that attraction and engaging in homosexual ACTS that is sinful. And the actions that you take are a CHOICE, not something that you can't change. Just as a heterosexual person has a choice whether or not to engage in sex outside of marraige (a sin), so too does a homosexual have a choice. - smallguy_bigheart"

A heterosexual has a choice of getting married. Someone who is homosexual does not have the option ........ and, it would be a sin for that person to marry some one of the opposite sex. (let's not discuss the same-sex marriage issue) The only option open to some one with same-sex attraction is a life-time of celibacy, which is a lonely existence.

Christianlib (2)
Christian conservatives are opposed to welfare and to government funds for the needy but are in favor of government funds going to victims of floods, fires, and earthquakes who are in need, even when we know that 60% of the needy are children under 18. Why isn't this contradictory? (Christianlib)

======================================

Our government was put in place to over see the GENERAL "welfare" of the people -- not INDIVIDUAL welfare of the people.

People have no control of Natural disasters. It is the job of government to protect the "general welfare of the people" at these times.

It is not the job of government to give individual welfare, that should be left to charities.

post-marital sex?
i'm for it

Bleeding Heart Liberal
Romans 1.26.

Christianlib (1)
Christian liberals find it illogical that right-to-life advocates are mostly in favor of capital punishment. This seems natural to Christian conservatives. Why?-- christainlib

This is why:

Numbers 35:30-31: "Whoso killeth any person, the murderer shall be put to death by the mouth of witnesses: but one witness shall not testify against any person to cause him to die. Moreover ye shall take no satisfaction for the life of a murderer, which is guilty of death: but he shall be surely put to death."

Christian conservatives do not understand how anyone can support the death of innocent unborn children, while protecting convicted murdering criminals. (Jo)


Jude: Two great verses
While I'm really happy that verse 7 is written (and quoted here), it's verse 23 that all of us Christians should take to HEART:

“Save some by snatching them as from the very flames of hell itself. And as for others, help them to find the Lord by being kind to them, but be careful that you yourselves aren’t pulled along into their sins. Hate every trace of their sin while being merciful to them as sinners.”

Every word of it.


Swampfox
It's not being gay (meaning having same sex attraction) that is sinful. It is acting on that attraction and engaging in homosexual ACTS that is sinful. And the actions that you take are a CHOICE, not something that you can't change. Just as a heterosexual person has a choice whether or not to engage in sex outside of marraige (a sin), so too does a homosexual have a choice.

stone
In the Prophets, examples abound. Taking just one, here’s how Isaiah confronts his own generation (Is. 1):

Your hands are full of blood; wash and make yourselves clean. Take your evil deeds out of my sight! Stop doing wrong, learn to do right!

Again, we most commonly think of repentance as quitting the bad stuff. But that’s only half of the Bible’s view. See both in “Stop doing wrong, learn to do right”? And what will “do right” look like to Isaiah? You’ll recognize it:

Seek justice, encourage the oppressed. Defend the cause of the fatherless, plead the case of the widow.

Standing up for those who have two strikes against them is Moral Values 101 to Isaiah. We could choose dozens of similar quotes from the prophets. And where will these causes be defended and pled, if not before those with governmental authority to correct them?

stone
as far as the government role in helping the poor?

here is what the bible says:

inally,

Since the Hebrew Scriptures speak more of government than the New Testament does, take a quick tour with me there:

In the Psalms: In Psalm 72, King Solomon reflects on his role as a head of state, and asks God to help him rule:

1 Endow the king with your justice, O God,
the royal son with your righteousness.

And what will justice and righteousness look like in a monarch? We more commonly use “justice” to mean “punishment,” as in “bring Saddam to justice.” And “righteousness,” in 21st-century English, describes a person who doesn’t do the sins we find most objectionable. But justice and righteousness are much more actively positive in Bible-talk. Here’s how Solomon describes their impact on a king:

4 He will defend the afflicted among the people
and save the children of the needy;
he will crush the oppressor. …

They’re active! And they affect the monarch’s foreign policy:

11 All kings will bow down to him
and all nations will serve him.

And why?

12 For he will deliver the needy who cry out,
the afflicted who have no one to help.
13 He will take pity on the weak and the needy
and save the needy from death.
14 He will rescue them from oppression and violence,
for precious is their blood in his sight.

Like Jesus, Solomon sees the “weak and the needy” as “precious.” Solomon sees special care for the needy—even special affection for the needy—as a characteristic of government blessed by God. Like Jesus, Solomon does not care for the needy because he fears for punishment if he doesn’t. He does it because they are precious to him!


Question?
Did those that wrote that the Bible understand that being homosexual was something that someone could not change and was not chosen? I don't think they understood that someone could not just pray the gay away.

Tell me where
Please, can one of you biblical scholars tell me where it says in the Bible women having a physical relation with other women is wrong? You know, the same type of abomination as men lying with men? Or do women get a pass on this one?

stone
i am pro-life.

first, lets talk capital punishment.

"those without sin, cast the first stone"

when dna testing became prevalent, 15% of inmates on death row in Illinois were found to be innocent.

do you think God excuses us when innocents are sentenced to death.

the state is fallible, God is not.

as far as charity the author of the study that says conservatives give more, also says this:

"Most of the difference in giving among conservatives and liberals gets back to religion. Religious liberals give nearly as much as religious conservatives, Mr. Brooks found. And secular conservatives are even less generous than secular liberals."

as far as tort reform, please document that it is liberals that moved it from state to federal.


priceless
The St. Jude's irony... oh well maybe they can try Islam I hear they're so much more tolerant than Christianity.

Swampfox Location: SC Reply # 58 Date:
Sorry, I am still gay.
Sorry, Mike, I am still gay and a Christian.

You forgot sinner. That is OK God still loves you and still wants you to know him.

Sorry, I am still gay.
Sorry, Mike, I am still gay and a Christian.

Georgetwin
Did you mean dyke or dike?

A dike with a crack is a bad thing.

A dyke....

Never mind.

Mike Adams is doing the Lords work
Witness the frothing, spitting hate of those who can't stand to hear of the Light.

As a former atheist of 40 some odd years I plead to you -who discount Adams' words out of hand- to REALLY investigate the Word. Find a good Bible study. Dedicate yourself to going every week for 3 months. Then, being at least slightly informed, if you still see things the same way, at least you will know more about which you speak instead of taking verses out of context, and with our poor, modern (lack of) understanding of language.

JMO51 @ 9:02 today
As John of SC said at 9:36, Jesus did not have to speak against homosexual activity. The religious authorities of his day taught much that was wrong, and he spoke against their wrong teaching. They taught as God had directed in the Torah concerning homosexual activity, and he did not have to correct their teaching on this subject.

To: Confused Christian"lib"
Protect the innocent, punish the guilty, (the Commandment is 'Thou shall not MURDER' - big difference. Consult the dictionary as needed).

Christian Conservatives promote self-reliance and personal charity. To say that conservatives want FEDERAL aid to disaster victims grossly overstates the fact; we give generously of our own funds at a MUCH greater right than your ilk does.

Regulation IS interference, by definition. Get thee to a dictionary, ma'am.

The key lies in your own phrase: "previously held by the states." WE didn't change that, your side did. And now that that's where the battle lies, it must be fought on the ground YOU defined. I'd love to see such things left to the state, but YOU changed that. Now we engage the fight where it is...

St. Jude
Naming the church in Wilmington after St. Jude was apparently done before they read the contents of the tiny epistle. The church name doesn't reflect what the epistle says. Would that make the church an OXYMORON CHURCH?

Del

Georgetwin (crack)
Alright now, twice in as many days. I may have to stop reading these threads to ease the pain.

In the future, please offer the spew alert - I can't take much more.

God bless you Mike
Great article. Mike wrote this out of love for all homosexual brothers and sisters. We pray that the holy spirit will touch a heart or two that may be struggling with this sin. We will always hate the sin but love the sinner.

Merry Christmas & God bless

GunnyG© Location: VA Reply # 48
I AM SHOCKED, SHOCKED I TELL YOU.
signed Doc.

Me to Gunny. Almost as much as waking up in the park when I went to sleep in my office.
signed,
Vincent W. Foster Jr

LMFAO hic! (not used with seatbuffers or permission, because I will NEVER ask for it!)

Palin/Jindal in 2012!

http://www.immigrationshumancost.org/text/crimevictims.htm l
Peso George, Pardon Ramos and Compean before you leave office!!!



Georgetwin
You get a clydism for that one: "D*MN YOUR HIDE!"

haha.

Liberal/Conservative Christians??
Wide is the road that leads to destruction and many will find it. Narrow is the road that leads to eternal life and few will find it.
The whole heart of Christianity is the Bible. The word of Jesus Christ as God and Creator given to men that they might come to have wisdom
and knowledge into the Creator.
Men have the foolish misconception that they can change the word, yet believe in the One who gave the word. Foolish is the hearts of men. For no man can reject that which is truth as written by the prophets as they were inspired by the Spirit of God and believe in the true Christ. There are only two realities. Reject the truth and thus reject the true Christ. Believe in the truth as it is given and thus believe in the true Christ.
Too many unholy doctrines have infiltrated the churches since the passing of 2,000 years. These doctrines give every appearance of being wholesome life giving bread. But these doctrines are bread full of worms and mold. And instead of giving life, takes life.
Anyone can pick scriptures from the Bible for use in formulating false doctrines. But lacking filling a spiritual puzzle from the multitude of fruits the bread of life gives over to the bread of death.
Faith without works is dead. The result of faith is the evidence of works. Without an accomplishment of works through faith, one's faith is contemptable to God for one remains in that state of rebellion to God. Believing they can ascend to heaven by what is esteemed as good deeds, they will foolishly give themselves to the judgment according to the law.
Few even know the reason of the creation of Earth and man. They know not because they are limited to their own understanding. But the word gives the reasons for creation. For there are (were) two reasons God created both Earth and man. The answers are there, but because men have closed eyes they perceive not what is and thus travel down a different road than that which leads to eternal life.

the basic assumption is wrong
Christian liberals, as opposed to liberal Christians, do not condone homosexuality or gay marriage.

here are some areas where Christian liberals differ from Christian conservatives.


Christian liberals find it illogical that right-to-life advocates are mostly in favor of capital punishment. This seems natural to Christian conservatives. Why?

Christian conservatives are opposed to welfare and to government funds for the needy but are in favor of government funds going to victims of floods, fires, and earthquakes who are in need, even when we know that 60% of the needy are children under 18. Why isn't this contradictory?


Christian conservatives are willing to increase the budgets for the military and for prisons on the grounds that they provide protection. But they want to eliminate regulatory agencies whose job is to protect the public, especially workers and consumers. Christian conservatives do not conceptualize regulation as a form of protection, only as a form of interference. Why?

Christian conservatives claim to favor states' rights over the power of the federal government. Yet their proposal for tort reform will invest the federal government with considerable powers previously held by the states, the power to determine what lawsuits can be brought for product liability and securities fraud, and hence the power to control product safety standards and ethical financial practices. Why is this shift of power from the states to the federal government not considered a violation of states' rights by conservatives?


CHECK THIS OUT
Obonehead's pick of Hitlery for SuckState is just a SMALL conflict of interest.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap_campaignplus/20081218/ap_ca/clin ton_foundation_donors

Clinton's have taken in MILLIONS from foreign governments since he and his libpig looted the White House.

What a nest of slimy scum...the DNC.

jimmis Location: MI Reply # 41
Subject: Great article
When there are sites like godhatesfags, homosexuals have a right to be offended and have contempt for Christianity. The people from that site have brought shame on the name of God

I must disagree. They bring shame to them self's, not God. The sinner (the website owners) makes the choice, not God and they don't speak for him.

Palin/Jindal in 2012!

http://www.immigrationshumancost.org/text/crimevictims.htm l
Peso George, Pardon Ramos and Compean before you leave office!!!

Good Piece Mike 5 stars!
One of the most loyal Democrats I have known over the years (except to BHO) had this to say:
If we make it OK for men to lay together, children and animals can not be far behind.
If you think of all the special interest groups, he is not wrong. Gotta love my pops.
Let's take the bible out of the discussion for a moment. A man and a man can not have a baby same as a woman and a woman can not. It fully goes against the laws of nature.
There I have had my say which is to say God had his say through me.
You know it's a sin against God and nature and now you must make up your own mind because you have to explain it to the man upstairs and it is not for me to judge, that's his job.
Just don't ask me to go against God and vote for anything like prop 8. That would also be a sin.

LMFAO hic! (not used with seatbuffers or permission, because I will NEVER ask for it!)

Palin/Jindal in 2012!

http://www.immigrationshumancost.org/text/crimevictims.htm l
Peso George, Pardon Ramos and Compean before you leave office!!!


Shame on you Georgetwin
ACORN Hopey McChange's Support is starting to erode. In this case, you could say there is a crack in The DYKE! LMAO! HIC!


You should have given us a spew alert!

Great article
When there are sites like godhatesfags, homosexuals have a right to be offended and have contempt for Christianity. The people from that site have brought shame on the name of God and will be dealt with harshly. They DO NOT represent the majority of Christians.

But gays are not innocent either. When one sees the radical militant gays on tv in parades and on MTV sleeping around, they are inviting scorn. It makes sense that these crazies do not represent the entire gay community. They do not want to be told that what they are doing is wrong. Hate the sin, not the sinner.

RGeek-MPaddy-Others
UH OH!

Obama's Rev. Warren Inaugural Pick Sparks Gay Fury

ACORN Hopey McChange's Support is starting to erode. In this case, you could say there is a crack in The DYKE! LMAO! HIC!

Great column, Mike!
I'm glad someone has the courage to stand up and tell the truth. It's not really loving to be accepting of everything. What is loving is to show the truth.

Jesus promised that his words would be offensive. Christians need to get some courage and be willing to take a stand for what is right, not worrying so much about offending others. Inoffensive people are usually ineffective as well.

Great job, Mr. Adams.

Jesus never mentioned cooking my cat!
Fire up the microwave it's a free-for-all!

Barack Obama and Attractions?

Barack Obama's friends, Mentors, religious advisers and alliances, look like the 'Who's Who of Radicals, Terrorists, Hate Mongers and Racists' in America.

The question is:

Are fundamentally flawed and corrupt people attracted to Barack Obama?

OR

Is Barack Obama attracted to fundamentally flawed and corrupt people?

OR

Is it just a mutual admiration society?

St. Jude
is an awesome saint. Saint of "hopeless" causes. How dare these people hijack this saint--yet how ironic that homosexuals belong to this church! St. Jude is, in fact, the saint of the "hopeless." They need to pray to St. Jude to intercede for them to return to God and His commandments. St. Jude will indeed help them.

To JMO51
Ah, you are mistaken. You say that homosexaulity is not mentioned in the gospel, but it is mentioned in the Bible. And, the Bible says that 2Ti 3:16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness...And, if Jesus is God, Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God...Then Jesus inspired the words which condemn homosexuality in Rom. 1, 1 Cor. 6:9, and explicitly state that those who practice these things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Jesus' first message was Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. That word repent means to turn from youself as lord of your life and turn away from your sins, and follow Jesus and His way. You can't have it both ways.

Jesus and homosexuality
JMO51:
Jesus came to fulfill the Law not to abolish it and the Law stated that it was an "abomination" for a man to lie with another man (Lev. 18:22). Therefore, He didn't restate it because that kind of immorality wasn't prevalent in Judea during His time on earth.

In fact, it was the attitude of the heart that He was most concerned with. One cannot say, "I will submit to the Lord, except where I disagree." Therefore, to accept Him is to accept ALL He commands. Christianity, regardless of how we have displayed it over the centuries, is not a buffet where we pick and choose.

There is nothing in the Old or New Testament saying that He differs from the levitical command or that He has changed His position.

One can have homosexual tendencies without committing the act just as one can have the desire for adultery without committing the act. We must draw the line at our actions while admitting our sinful desires.

Merry Christmas.

Why I left the Episcopelian Church
As soon as they elevated a homosexual, living in sin with his "partner", to Bishop, I stopped going to the Episcopelian Church. The schism that has developed in the church as a result of his elevation apparently is of no concern to the Bishop. His selfishness at retaining his bishopcy is such that he is willing to see the church torn asunder. A real Christian would sacrifice his own desires to save the Church. This is such a travesty. WHen I asked around to find a "conservative" Episcopelian church, I had to endure the "you are a hater" from libtrolls. Apparently, if you embrace the Bible as the word of God, you are a hater. I am going back to the Baptist church that I was baptized in as a young girl. I bet the Baptists won't be going off on any such silly, sinful tangents.

JMO51
St. Jude's does not try to bring people closer to God. They promote the things that seperate people from God. Did we read the same article?

Post-Marital Sex
I'm pretty sure that my wife is also opposed to sex after the wedding! ;)

Funny
Homosexuality was not mentioned once in the gospel. I guess it just was not a priority for Jesus who was more interested in ministering to the poor and keeping the money changers out of the temple. Anyway, at this time of year I would have hoped that people like Mike would would show a little christian charity to Gays and Lesbians and their chruch which in its own way is attempting to bring these people closer to God.

Finally, he who is without sin should cast the first stone. I think conservative churches and their parishers should spend their time reflecting on their own shortcomings as none of us is without sin or human frailty or weakness.

Seasons Greetings and may god bless.

To TJ
"Let's Get back to Quidditch -- Apparently they worship Harry Potter."

This, my friend, is the funniest line I have read on TH all year. Congrats!

POST-marital sex///
POST means after - like after marriage.

Isn't that appropriate?

St. Jude
Go Mike!

Great Insight
I thank God for your courage to stand up to the intolerant mentality of the radical LGBTQ. Your wisdom and insight is much appreciated. Keep up the good work. Thanks!

News Alert
I know this is off topic but it's so delicious I had to share it with everyone.

Mika Brzezinski, daughter of Jimmy Carter's secretary of state, and co-host of Morning Joe on MSNBC, was mugged today outside of her hotel in Washington D.C., right before she interviewed D.C.'s anti-gun mayor.

Isn't this rich!!! Oh, how wonderful.

I can almost see her voter registration card turning a slighter shade of red.

If only there was a way to steer violent criminals to elite neighborhoods. Someone tell them how to cross the street and roust those rich liberals! Then maybe we'd get some correct thinking from those mush head communists.

Thanks Hawkeye58
Thanks for asking about the Q...was wondering that myself. Great comments...enjoyed them almost as much as Mr. Adams' piece itself.

everyman
You should acquaint yourself with the Christian religion and conservative thought/politics. You will see how the latter is derived from the former. The conservative views that you hold are derived from Biblical principles. Oh yeah.

Hawkeye
I think I know what LGBTQ stands for:
Let's Get Back To Quidditch

Apparently they worship Harry Potter.

Q
It stands for "questioning" - in other words, those who haven't decided on another option. I just say "queeer".

Duh

LGBTQ

What's the Q stand for? Surely not what I'm thinking.

Jeffersonian Constitutionalist
Guess your statement depends on your definition of tolerance. Islam as tolerant is a real strech as to its definition.

ST Judes should teach tolerance

Tolerance is the hallmark many religions including Judism, Christianity, and Islam.

I hope St. Judes is able to teach the concept to the Gay community.

I've read a few
of Dr. Adams'posts and have consistently had three thoughts:
1.) What does this have to do with Conservative politics and/or Republicanism? Am I not a conservative if I don't read the Bible? The Far Right wing of the Republican party is as much in error as the far left wing of the Democratic party. Look at Washington/Wall Street today to see where that kind of radical partisanship has gotten us.
2.) Is North Carolina turning into the new California/Massachussetts/New York?
3.) I'm sure glad I live where I do. The churches up here are banding together because the old farts who supported them are dying off at alarming rates, and the kids have to spend Sunday Morning grocery shopping for the NASCAR race/football game to be televised that afternoon. We were supposed to have a gay parade up here, but neither one of them showed up.

Good Posts For Adams' Column (so far)


Adams' point of view, which the mainstream media would never go near, is still valid after some 2000 years.

Think if Adams appeared on the Today Show and voiced his opinion. The outrage would be endless. Sadly, this tells you all you need to know about America, 2008.

St. Jude
Excellent commentary! A reminder to us all:
Well then, should we keep on sinning so that God can show us more and more kindness and forgiveness? Of course not! Since we have died to sin, how can we continue to live in it? Romans 6

Scandal
This is a perfect example of the sin of scandal. I post about scandal rather frequently because it's something that's rarely brought up (Thanks, Dr. Adams), but VERY common in the modern world.
Scandal is not Rod Blagojevich selling senate seats to the highest bidder, and it is not Mr. Bill doing tawdry things with an intern only slightly older than his daughter.

Scandal is the leading of another into sin. This can be either by bad advice, peer pressure, or, as is the case here, using the moral authority expected from a church organization to support and defend sinful behavior by calling it not sinful.

The problem with Scandal is that not only are you (in this case the ministers at this church) responsible for your own sins, but you are also responsible for the sins of those you corrupt (as are they).

This whole "Gay is OK" or "Not that there's anything wrong with it" mentality we have as a society, anymore, is the source for a great many scandals occuring today.

I'm worried about Will.
He usually comments on columns by Dr. Adams that have nothing to do with homosexuality, and he manages to make a gay issue out of it anyway. However, he has been absent for the past couple of columns. If this one doesn't bring him back, he must have been in an accident or something. In accordance with the advice of St. Jude to love the sinner, we should all say a prayer for him.

I guess I have
been away from reading Mike Adams' columns for too long. His tone has changed. Much nicer, and still standing firm. Hooray! God Bless you, Dr. Adams. Merry Christmas

Wayne
By "post-marital sex" Adams means unmarried sex after a divorce. Sex in marriage is "marital sex".

Wayne
Post-marital means after the MARRIAGE, not after the WEDDING. More to the point, it means after divorce. The post-marital concept(which is confusing at first glance, so I don't fault you for your misinterpretation) was brought out in a column where Dr. Adams came down on divorced people with children getting back on the dating track and acting like an irresponsible teenager in front of their children (or at least where the children can surmise what they are doing.) Being a single parent and fooling around with a parade of suiters does not leave a good example for the children. THAT was the point Dr. Adams was making.

What?!!
A Mike Adams article that has been up for hours and not one galloping H*mo has shown up.

John S./thomas
Kudos guys...just when you start to think N.Y. is full of nothing but deranged lefties, some New Yokers like yourselves come along and prove there is still some common sense left in that State. Keep up the good fight!

Bravo Mike!
Kudos to you, Mike S. Adams, for being so forthright, yet without being combative--exactly what Jesus teaches in His Word, and how He lived while incarnated on this earth. Nonetheless, do not kid yourself that homosexuals (I refuse to allow that fine old word, "gay," to be kidnapped by homosexuals, at least in my own vocabulary) will respond with a like gentle honesty. You might very well have laid yourself open to threats, and even attempts at retribution.

Savior
They've reinvented the Savior to suit themselves, too, turning Him into a fuzzy-wuzzy Easter Bunny who never once saw a cross; a Punxatawny Phil who runs from his own shadow; a baby in a manger, incapable of pointing out their sin. And they would tell Christ what to do and when to do it - demanding, not praying.

Jesus came to save the repentant.

Of course, it fits with the incoming administration, which should send out Christmas cards with a Savior who is allowed to die, alone and neglected, unloved and despised, in a dirty washroom - just as they did in the hospital in Chicago that bears His name: a Christmas card with a baby that was forced into an early birth, and was refused life.

Neither Senator Infanticide nor his name-only Christian accomplices know the Lord. They look in their mirror and say: "There he is!"

homosexuality is just one of the sins...
...embraced by the liberal "christian". the other is the embrace of abortion, devaluation of the scriptures authority, pre-marital sex advocacy and at all cost never disciplining children for fear of hurting their feelings and self esteem. In fact, sin is rarely if ever mentioned unless your talking about george Bush or global warming. They embrace the prospects of universal salvation while ignoring as best they can role of satan in all our lives. If you say you believe in God, they must know what that entails, if you answer "correctly" they can label you "open and affirming" and you are in the family. Mention hell or sin, particularly st.judes inference to love the sinner and hate the sin, and they begin to convulse and froth at the mouth with their own form of condemnation. the devil need not make his rounds at the "st. judes" of the world, when his helpers are disguised as sheep and leading congregations to the pits of hell. Its is every self described christians duty to "bear" that burden "in order to fulfill the law of christ" and help those being deceived. Truthfully , those churches have small numbers because people who are truly seeking God dont want to be lied to about the sin, selfishness and greed in their lives. they come to church to seek a purging of their soul. to be cleansed of their pain and suffering. genrally they know what that suffering really is and people telling them to continue in their sin usually find after some time that they lose these new seekers to the "condemning" church's because they see no real change in their lives in the "open and affirming ones". and then the Pastors of these churchs continue to blame it on those darn conservatives. never wondering why it is their churchs have such a spiritual void. such is the nature of satans handiwork.

Misery loves company
These sad people with their unnatural cravings band together in groups, including forming "churches," for mutual support. Sorry to say, it may make them feel better, but it won't save them.

But they won't like that being pointed out. Brace yourself--hell hath no fury like a homosexual scorned (viz. Cal. and Prop. 8).

Post-Marital Sex
Adams is opposed? Is that a typo or just unusually honest?

Dr. Adams
Not bad; not bad.

But I've found they don't get irony.

So true
Watch how Wills panties are all in a bunch over this one.

Well said.
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