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Monday, November 24, 2008
Mike Adams :: Townhall.com Columnist
Benton Out of Shape on Proposition Eight
by Mike Adams
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Pepperdine University President Andrew Benton recently interjected himself into a controversy concerning a commercial in support of California Proposition 8. His ostensible purpose in doing so was to quell a wave of outrage from radical gay activists in California. If anything, his actions will embolden those who prefer intellectual terrorism over civil political discourse as a means of shaping public policy. His actions will also further diminish the reputation of Pepperdine as a conservative Christian university.

The controversy began when Law Professor Richard Peterson appeared in the following television ad.

President Benton responded with the following:

“I want to provide an update on an issue that weighs heavily on many of our minds: encouraging academic freedom while refraining from political endorsement by Pepperdine University. As most are aware, Yes on 8 ads airing on television and radio feature one of our professors. The Pepperdine name is prominently displayed in the current round of ads and many vocal supporters and opponents of Prop 8 see the opinions expressed as not only the professor's, but Pepperdine's as well.

Many of our professors write op-eds, books and give speeches; and they are appropriately identified with Pepperdine University. My first reaction to this series of television ads was that Pepperdine was too prominent. Many on the faculty disagreed, some agreed strongly. At the faculty conference I learned that a disclaimer would satisfy the professor and others who were involved. We offered language that was simple and clear, and while we knew the firestorm would continue in some quarters, we felt a straightforward disclaimer would allow the professor his right to speak and our right to remain outside any role of endorsement in the political fray. The next day, I learned that the professor and those promoting Proposition 8 preferred to withdraw Pepperdine's name completely. We agreed. It was a change from a position announced just the day before, but it seemed a stronger measure and appropriate.

Just prior to running a second ad, the campaign announced to us that in their opinion it would be more effective if Pepperdine's name was back in. They added a disclaimer, albeit so small and bare, that most do not see it. It was not the language which we had suggested. They did not ask us; they told us what they were going to do, and they did it.

Without any involvement in the campaign, Pepperdine has been lionized and vilified. We have been given credit where it is not due and blamed beyond anyone's wildest imaginings. I, and perhaps many of you, continue to receive words of praise and condemnation from people who are either thanking us, or sharply criticizing us. Whether the writers are for or against Prop 8, I take no comfort from either position as it puts us where we don't belong -- in partisan politics.”

President Benton has made - if you have not yet detected it – a gross error in characterizing the Proposition 8 controversy as one involving “partisan politics.” Proposition 8 passed in California because virtually every Republican and a very sizeable proportion of Democrats supported a reaffirmation of the simple belief that marriage should be confined only to the union of one man and one woman. The fact that measures like Proposition 8 always win when subjected to popular vote – even in the most liberal states – shows just how un-controversial the issue really is.

Just as the issue of the definition of marriage not partisan, it is not even political in the truest sense of the word. Just as God created man and woman, God also created the institution of marriage. Therefore, God alone has the power to define marriage. No one who disagrees with that simple principle can rightly define himself as a Christian. And no university that retreats from that principle can rightly define itself as Christian. The issue could hardly be less confusing or less controversial.

But Andrew Benton simply cannot think his way through this very simple issue. When, during the commercial, Professor Peterson’s affiliation with Pepperdine was (briefly) displayed beneath his name it was not seen by anyone as an endorsement of Proposition 8 by the university. It was seen by fringe gay radicals as an opportunity to vilify a Christian university for having the audacity to employ a professor who holds traditional Christian beliefs.

But too much emphasis has been placed on the supposed black eye given to Pepperdine in the wake of the Proposition 8 commercial controversy. President Benton should be far more concerned with what has happened to Professor Peterson’s reputation than what has happened to Pepperdine’s.

Indeed, Professor Peterson, who does legal advocacy for handicapped children, has been branded as a pedophile by opponents of Proposition 8. This defamation was done in the name of tolerance by those claiming intolerance of hatred. The story is just too strange to pass for fiction.

There are only three appropriate ways to respond to the gay lunatics who attacked Pepperdine and Professor Peterson: 1) Sue for defamation every gay activist who has accused Peterson of pedophilia. 2) Arrest for trespassing anyone who bothers Professor Peterson at his place of work. 3) Shoot and kill anyone who comes to Professor Peterson’s home to cause physical harm to him or to any member of his family.

What is not appropriate is trying to appease these radicals. Gay activists are never satisfied and they are never happy. It is far better to side with their opponents. That way, a majority of people (Remember: Proposition 8 supporters are a majority) could have been satisfied. By trying to please everyone, Benton has succeeded in pleasing very few people in the short term.

And the long term consequences of riding the fence on this issue are far worse. As you read the final three paragraphs of President Benton’s mass email to all faculty and students at Pepperdine, try to imagine what those long term effects will be:

“This is a very challenging situation. We believe that the right to freedom of expression must be balanced with the fact that universities cannot endorse political candidates and propositions. We can host debates, we can educate, but we can't endorse.

We regret when anyone supposes that we are inappropriately involved in a political issue when we are not. We will take whatever measures we deem appropriate to correct the misunderstanding. I will be writing to alumni and donors to explain the delicate nature of the balance we strike. We must not chill the right to free expression, but we must also avoid the appearance (intended or not) of political partisanship.

You can be of service to our institution by helping us clear up this confusion with those who may ask. I appreciate your understanding, your assistance and your patience.”

President Benton could be of greater service to his institution if he only knew something about the nature of gay political advocacy. The idea is to attack all Christians and Christian institutions expressing agreement with the Bible’s very clear teachings on homosexuality. When they are ignored they go away. When they are taken seriously they come back.

Because the Gaystapo has successfully gotten under the skin of Andrew Benton, Pepperdine’s days as a Christian university are numbered. And the number of places where parents can send their children for a Christian education is shrinking.

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About The Author
Mike Adams is a criminology professor at the University of North Carolina Wilmington and author of Feminists Say the Darndest Things: A Politically Incorrect Professor Confronts "Womyn" On Campus.
 
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Christian "President"?
Pdepperdine needs to learn that it is not politics, it is principle. If a Christian will not stand up for valid moral pronciples, what will he stand up for?

Alan - Woodland, CA.

Explain to me
How choosing to honor God with your vote and your voice is showing partisanship. Freedom means being free to speak freely. Even if homosexuals are threatening to come to your home and beat you up. The president of Pepperdine is a wimp! Are Christians afraid of evil?

It is not a Christian's duty to protect a sinner's right to sin. It is not loving to be accepting of what God has called degrading and indecent, impure and dishonorable.

Since one Party chooses to support the murder of innocent babies and the other Party does not Christians had better being showing partisanship.

"So because you are lukewarm and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth" Rev.3:15 Letter from Jesus to the apostate Church of Laodicea

Will, hang on there ...
I have been a bit busy -- gotta earn a living and this has kept me a bit on the busy side. BUT, I made myself a promise I would be here after the election to hear whether Will the Homosexual would admit he actually lost the vote on Prop 8. Just as I expected he is whinning and complaining that his side was somehow ripped off. And, the loss was, after all closer than before.

Will, and all the other Homosexual folks miss an important point. For the second time more than half of the population of California have said conclusively -- marriage is between one man and one woman.

Now, if the worn out black robed Court jesters should try again to throw out the will of the decision of the electorate it will just be put on the ballot again, and again the majority of Californians will vote the definition as -- wait for it -- ONE MAN AND ONE WOMAN. Eventually, the knuckleheads will get tired of trying to overthrow the will of the electorate.

And Will, I hope you remembered to wear a bit of protection when you practiced your sodomite behavior over the weekend. You should be careful, you get that fecal matter in your member and a raging infection could result. It is a dangerous game you play. Medical experts will tell you you should be very careful to make sure you are as protected as possible. Otherwise, we won't have Will to laugh at.

Wendy #104
Bless you Wendy.

Sorry Will.............

.......you are still an idiot.


NY Boy George, you are running a close second to Will. Typical liberal interpretation - Mike is not advocating killing protesters. He does say that if they show up at Pres. Benton's house and harrass him there they should be shot and killed - rightly so, they have no business on this man's private property.

Overreaching
While the despicable acts committed by some activists opposed to Prop 8 are clearly indefensible, I did not feel that Professor Adams made a convincing case against President Benton. Pepperdine's request for a disclaimer appears reasonable (nor does Adams condemn it), and if President Benton's account of the negotiations conducted on that issue are correct (again, Adams provides no evidence to refute it), it would seem clear that those running the ads were less than honest in their dealings with the school. Criticism of President Benton should have been expanded to include the people who ran the ads and who(apparently) defaulted on their agreements. Last, but not least, Professor Adams implies that the Pepperdine faculty member who appeared in the ad has not received adequate protection at the university. The story might lead one to conclude that his life (as well as the lives of his family members) has been threatened. If that is true, Professor Adams should state that information clearly. And if he thinks President Benton has been remiss in providing adequate protection, then Professor Adams should state that clearly as well. I was disappointed in the approach taken by Professor Adams.

America is suffering
America is suffering unlawful deception from the Alinsky group.
Group u$urp$ power on January 20th—the constitution violated.
The United States Supreme Court alone can relieve this outrage.

example: Bogus Selective Service System FOIA Registration?
http://www.debbieschlussel.com/archives/2008/11/exclusive_d id_n.html

Who is accusing Peterson of pedophilia?
I've never actually seen this "accused him of pedophilia" claim substantiated. I think it's some overblown rhetoric. I've been keeping up with this issue and with the exception of this opinion piece I've never seen Peterson's name connected to pedophilia. Any support for that statement?

It'll be a sad day when some of these people's grandkids find out they voted against gay marraige. I imagine it's the same feeling one has when they discover their grandad opposed interracial marriage.

One day gay marriage will be commonplace. Unfortunately it's going to take some kicking and screaming to get there - and not just by gay people. I'm single (and happily married) and am very active for this cause. Funny enough, I'm not the perpetrator of adultery or multiple divorces like most of the thumpers with whom I'm acquainted. Doesn't MA have some of the lowest divorce rates in the country? Damn liberals and their honest true family values.

george
I would.

Anderson659
What you are describing is called conjecture. You and RG in this case are making a guess based on certain parameters that you believe are valuable. However well founded you may think they are, they all fall short of seeing into the heart and mind of others. Furthermore, they form a blanket conclusion that fails the most basic element of human behavior; that being the individual capacity for emotion.

All such conclusions are in fact, devoid of common sense, lack reasoning and have no sense of historical understanding. They are based simply on faith and personal bias. I will not question your faith or the right of religion to have its own particular precepts. However, I will not accept those precepts any more than I would a Muslim’s belief that God gave him the right to make terror on others

To anderson659
Anderson659 writes:

"Brains

Common Sense

Backed up by faith, reasoning and history.

Hope I cleared that up for you."

So all homosexualilty is, is about lust not love? I don't think that you or Retired Geek know what you are talking about.

18,000 marriages, George?
Please forgive me questioning your numbers, but I'm funny that way. People will tend to inflate numbers to give an air of importance to their position. These numbers come from the same group that not long ago attempted to assert that 10% of the population is homosexual. The true numbers are somewhere between 1-3%, though someone earlier on this thread asserted it is 3-5%.

Your numbers may or maynot be correct. I suspect not.

Tod Kozeluh
Lexington, KY


Joshua, not gay, per say,
perhaps liberal would be more suffice. I know that's presumptuous. There are many conservatives who have a dislike of Ms. Coulter. I sometimes cringe when reading her columns but I usually find them to be very informative.

However, considering the snide remark about Ms. Coulter, it doesn't appear that you have taken the "high road" either.

Tod Kozeluh
Lexington, KY

Politics (endorsement) or issue advocacy
It's so strange that Dr. Benton would confuse partisan politics with issue advocacy. Recommending a particular person for an elected office is endorsing a candidate, which the University should not do, but which a private person can certainly do, whether or not he is identified as working for a particular employer. However, using his knowledge to advocate for passage of a particular bill, or piece of legislation, or referendum isn't politics or endorsement. It's issue advocacy and the IRS has different views of the two. One suspects that if the professor had been on the other side of Proposition 8, there would have been no controversy over his position.

Swampfox
You asked how Retired Geek would know in your post about Love and lust, two ways:

Brains

Common Sense

Backed up by faith, reasoning and history.

Hope I cleared that up for you.

George
Still posting your fantasies eh?

Isnt it a bit ridiculous to post such private musings? In public?

George, I see you are still trying the old homosexual interracial scam to see who will buy it. Sorry, George, no sale. Linking your sin to the color of skin is a total failure.

It is nice to see you have toned down your posts, I see you have adopted the vulnerable minority status your homosexual militant leaders have espoused.

You should have read the USA Today on Friday the 21st.

Even your own spokespeople have conceeded homosexual marriage in the USA is not happening anytime soon, if ever.

rude responses
I am not going to comment on this issue, but I am going to say that people like poster #2 on this thread are an embarrassment. I've seen them on other threads, and that's one reason I don't usually bother to read comments (or, certainly not more than a few). Burkanuck1, it was childish and rude of you to call the last poster a "snivelling loser and "pathetic laughingstock." Take the high road next time. If I wanted to read a list of insults, I could reread an Ann Coulter book.

(P.S. I might have left this response and not looked back, but I'm curious to see whether someone accuses me of being gay for this.)

Your opinioin Geek.
Retired Geek writes:
"Homosexuality is an Aberration of Natural law.

Homosexuality is the pursuit of 'Lust instead of Love'."

And, how would you know?


George Who Knows all Things

George wrote: "...Homosexuality is neither a birth defect nor a choice behavior..."

Homosexuality is either a birth defect.

'OR'

A free will chosen behavior.

Homosexuality is an Aberration of Natural law.

Homosexuality is the pursuit of 'Lust instead of Love'.

Rudolf
You don't have children do you?

FROG
They are not struggling with same sex attraction they are acting out their genetic destiny.

George - get real please.
The fact that 30 states and counting are defining marriage means a consitutional ammendment would not get the 2/3rds state support necessary to make an ammendment. Bush could not get it to define marriage as one man and one woman, and the homosexuals won't either. Suffice it to say, young people also believed Obama will solve all problems and after his conference today, they believe he does not have solutions because Bush made mistakes. If your hope is in this illogical demographic then you can join the 'hope and change' jive express because marriage will ALWAYS be one man and one woman. Sir Elton was right, get with the program.

Church affiliation
Pepperdine's affiliation
"Isn't Pepperdine affiliated with the United Churches of Christ, or as some may call them, the "Utterly Confused Christians"? If so, it doesn't surprise me that the school's president has a hard time coming out and saying that the traditional definition of marriage is thoroughly based in Scripture."

No Pepperdine is no affiliated with the United Church of Christ, a very leberal church, but with the Churches of Christ.

To Opa
Opa writes, "Please stop using that word. It's a perfectly good word that means happy. Use Homosexual or Lesbian, but not gay." You are so funny. Residents of the Island of Lesbos recently took the Lesbian Rights advocates to Greek court over the use of the term lesbian. They lost.

MikeR: John Brown tag line
Hi, Mike, good comeback!

I'm still working on finding a good tagline to use as a signature.

I used to use "Hillary delenda est" ("Hillary must be destroyed"), an allusion to Cato the Elder in the old Roman republic, who ended his speeches with "Carthago delenda est".

Then, when she lost the primaries, I switched to "Obama delenda est". But now that he's President, I'm conflicted by respect for the office, and the officeholder, against my personal distate for his character.

Maybe I'll ditch the signature altogether.

Rudolf, effects are subtle
There's not going to be a tearing of the cloth in the temple, or a collapse of buildings like in some cheesy epic about the fall of Rome.

The effects of undermining the building blocks on which society has been based for all of recorded history will be subtle to be seen.

But as a thought experiment, picture an American from 1948, and describe to him the things we see around us today. And then point back to various milestones along the way. Do you think that someone in that position, 60 years in the past, had any idea how the world would look today?

It doesn't always take a cataclysm to effect change, often a large change is the sum effect of many small changes, taken as one, as a river delta is the sum of the grains of soil washed down from the hinterlands.

"Where's John Brown, when we need 'im?"

Retired Geek
Yes and no. While I can see your point it fails on two levels. Inter-racial marriage is a behavior choice yet it is now considered a civil right. Otherwise, the fact that sexuality might be predetermined does not make it a birth defect any more than left-handedness is. Many schools choose to buy left handed scissors to accommodate the students who have this condition.

The problem is our vision
I struggle to understand why, as Christians, we can forgive divorce, understand the struggles of the drug and alcohol addict, and dismiss our own struggles with lust and pornography, then turn right around and lay waste to a fellow child of God who struggles with same sex attraction.

Somehow, we see them for the act of sin they commit, and become disgusted, rather than as fellow strugglers trying to find light in a dark world. Anytime you focus on the struggle, you lose sight of the struggler. If we profess to have the water the quenches all thirsts, why do we not live confident lives that demonstrate that?

I'm just another soul trying to make my way in a fallen world.

Tod Kozeluh
Lexington, KY

Who cares what happened in the past?
Bogus arguments about how no civilization ever had same-sex marriage. Who cares? Then was then and now is now. Anyway: via what sociological mechanism would granting ~ 3-5% of the human population interested in doing so the right to marry someone of their own gender change the world or whatever? In the few countries that have had gay marriage so far nothing has changed. W.r.t. to my own native country the Netherlands: before gay marriage no one was interested in God, and guess what, afterwards still no one in interested in religion. Who cares? And no one cares about same sex marriage overthere, except the religious right which in Europe now includes nutty Muslims.

Benton
Andrew Benton seeks to occupy two mutually exclusive positions at the same time. As any time traveler can tell you, the consequences for ectoplasmic existential connubiation are severe. Seriously, it is pathetic to watch a man contort his conscience to be all things to all people. This is not what the apostle meant by that. Where are the heroes?

Recall, Will
So you think the CA Supreme Court will overturn Prop 8? Do you remember Rose Bird, the late but unlamented former Chief Justice of the CA Supreme Court? It seems Ms. Rose really, really hated the death penalty, so in appeals of the death penalty to the CA SC, she kept trying, and in some cases succeeding, to overturn it. This in spite of the fact that a clear majority of Californians were in favor of it, as they expressed at the ballot box many times. As a result of her repeatedly frustrating the will of the people, Ms. Rose was recalled in 1986 and replaced with a conservative justice more in tune with his constitutional responsibilities.

I can foresee a similar fate for CA SC Justices who insist on overturning laws banning same sex (i.e., homosexual) marriages. Isn't the recall process wonderful? We really need the same process at the federal level for such judicial nonconformists as Ruth Ginsburg, don't you think?

Stop using "gay".
Please stop using that word. It's a perfectly good word that means happy. Use Homosexual or Lesbian, but not gay.

Prop 8
Will:
What your stats tell me is that only 52% of CA voters are "straight", and that 48% are something else.

The Old Dawg

Homosexuals
The established Religious organizations will always be against homosexuality, especially true in the Muslim community in this country.
There is really no argument here about what a majority of the people want.They have voted and the results are plain to see.
President elect Obama himself is against gay marriage.
The gay activists will instigate riots when the will of the people is upheld and alot of people will be hurt. So be it.

George et al

There is NO such thing as Civil Rights for behavior.

George which is it?

Is Homosexuality a 'Birth Defect'?

'OR'

Is Homosexuality a 'Chosen Behavior'?

If Homosexuality is a Birth Defect than Homosexuals should file with the Americans with Disabilities act.

NARTH
Has NARTH published anything credible about their success rate of reparative therapy?

George and dishonest argument
George wrote the usual, utterly dishonest argument offered by opponents of Prop 8, pretending that their position represents the defense of civil rights. Actually, Prop 8 is the legitimate defense of civil rights, and the gay opposition to it, the removal of such rights.

Civil rights are granted by God (or Nature, if you will,) but articulated in the Constitution and in laws justly formed by the legislature. The defense of civil rights requires the lawful creation and enforcement of laws.

The California legislature passed laws governing marriage, and further passed a resolution clarifying that by "marriage," they meant the union of one man with one woman. The California Supreme Court illegally and improperly gave itself legislative power by redefining the word "marriage" to mean something other than what it means.

Prop 8 merely adds the correct definition of the English word "marriage" to the California Constitution so the Court no longer can claim the right to redefine it at will.

If the Court can redefine the words of laws at will in attempts to change the meaning of the laws, then the laws actually have no meaning. Our government is supposed to be a government of laws, not of men; that's what defends our liberty. If laws can be changed merely by a court redefining a word at their will, then there's not even any point in passing laws; we're governed by whoever has the power to define the language.

There exists no natural right for anybody to redefine the words of laws at their whim. There exists no such Constitutional right. The civil right at risk here is the right of self-government, and the opponents of Prop 8 want to take that right away.

(Unrelated to this topic, please visit my political blog, "Plumb Bob Blog: Squaring the Culture," at http://www.plumbbobblog.com. Click on my nickname and follow the links on my townhall blog. Thanks.)

Not a religious issue
I regret that Dr. Adams has chosen to mention God in connection with the observation that marriage can only involved opposite genders. Yes, I believe that's God's design, but one does not need to believe in God at all in order to accept it. It's a human matter, not a religious matter.

It's simply a fact that every culture in history, regardless of religion, race, creed, or racial identity, has practiced some form of marriage that exists between a man and at least one woman, for the purpose of procreation and child-rearing. There are variations in the cultural practices, but they all have cross-gender commitment in common. Not a single one has recognized homosexual unions as "marriage" in any legal sense. Some have recognized those as acceptable relationships, but never as "marriage.

The cross-gender nature of marriage is a human characteristic, not a religious imperative. Religious people should feel free to argue that humans were designed by God, but for the purpose of determining a cultural practice, bringing religion into the mix only confuses the discussion. Gay activists are not trying to avoid religious practice, they're trying to redefine human nature.

(Unrelated to this topic, please visit my political blog, "Plumb Bob Blog: Squaring the Culture," at http://www.plumbbobblog.com. Click on my nickname and follow the links on my townhall blog. Thanks.)



The gay life and consequences for same.
This is an interesting article in regard gays and the medical results.

http://www.leaderu.com/orgs/narth/medconsequences.html

Aside from a few resounding denials that will surely come after reading the article, is there any gay person on this site who can give a rational explanation?

To those who will attempt to minimize or dismiss the statements in the web essay, please keep in mind that Mental Disorders, in part, are those pathologies that present a danger to the self and others.

To James
James writes, "I think most of us have some sort of predisposition to sin but we just have to be self-disciplined enough not to indulge our most base inclination no matter whether it's kleptomania, pyromania, excessive pride or hoosexuality." There you go again.

Right on the money
James, my friend, you've got it right. Great example. I have an acquaintence who is attracted to those of his gender and he refrains from acting on it. Is he denying his true identity? No, he's fighting to do what he feels is right, like all of us try to do with our challenges. He is a chasete and admirable person.

theBaron
Molderin’ in the grave?

Oxymoron!
It is simply not possible for any part of a constitution to be unconstitutional. As an aside, I have a friend who is both a committed Christian and gay. But, he simply avoids sin by not engaging in homosexual sex. Yes, he is chaste. I think most of us have some sort of predisposition to sin but we just have to be self-disciplined enough not to indulge our most base inclination no matter whether it's kleptomania, pyromania, excessive pride or hoosexuality.

Pepperdine's affiliation
Isn't Pepperdine affiliated with the United Churches of Christ, or as some may call them, the "Utterly Confused Christians"? If so, it doesn't surprise me that the school's president has a hard time coming out and saying that the traditional definition of marriage is thoroughly based in Scripture.

"Where's John Brown when we need 'im?"

Robert
What are you talking about? Who are those seeking murder? Since when does anyone have to band together against a “minor onslaught”? In fact, how can an onslaught be minor?

hmmm...
well it looks like it is time to stand up and be counted. either you believe what our Creator has stated about males and females regarding marriage or you don't. and it is time to band together against the minor onslaught of those who disagree with their Creator; to defend ourselves and our homes, our families and our churches, and our way of life. defense is expected against the aggressor much like 9-11, and criminal aggressors such as carjackers and house invasions. it is about time we put the seventy million guns to good use to defend ourselves against those who seek to murder for their own cause/gain.

Responding to Will
"Will" from CA claims: "Time is not on the supporters of Yes on 8's side. Time. Not on your side. Only a matter of time now. The clock is ticking."

In support of this "will" uses the 61%-52% talking point that homosexual activists came up with to spin their resounding defeat. There is just one problem with the talking point.

The 61% vote came in a primary (March 7, 2000) The 52% vote came in a general election with a wildly popular Obamessiah at the top of the ticket. New Obamessiah voters turned out in Kalifornia and voted 62% against Prop 8.

Prop 8 was able to get 52.5% under the absolute worst possible conditions. In any other election, this would have been a 56%-57% victory.

52.5% UNDER THE ABSOLUTE WORST POSSIBLE CONDITIONS.


Christians Lack Courage
Why is it that Christian leadership such as Benton cannot take a stand and rally support for his faith and beliefs? If you do not protect your freedoms then there are those, most certainly, who will divest you from all freedom and replace it with their tyranny.

I have yet to hear of the Gay right advocates invading a non christian place of worship or picketing with their signs infront of their buildings and calling them names...

Swampfox
You are as Lucid as ever. Happy Thanksgiving to You & Yours!

To O
O writes, "These kids will be confused of their own identity at best, lose their sense of direction/purpose in life, and, at worse, be subject to depression and suicide. Other negatives abound. This is not something society should sanction!" The fact is that the subject of homosexuality is now discussed openly. Thank God for that. I would wonder if you have ever talked to a gay teenager, who is coming to grip with his/her homosexuality? My guess is that you haven't.

I think you missed it Will
Let's read this overblown paragraph again. Mike so desperately seems to think that anti-gay marriage propositions in CA will ALWAYS be doomed to failure:

No Will, Mike thinks that anti-gay marriage props will ALWAYS be successful not doomed to failure.
Also any supreme court justice that finds a constitutional amendment unconstitutional is not doing his job. He is legislating from the bench not interpreting which is his mandate. (snicker .. he said man date). The constition is his guide he can not change it like he might say a law is not constitutional.

Have a Happy Thanksgiving, everyone.
May I wish you all a Happy Thanksgiving. Find something for which to be thankful. Even this poor, gay conservative.

Pray the gay away
seesthelight writes: "It is sad to see how little emphasis is placed on the use of the only weapon which can be used against the abomination of homosexuality.The Bible is the Word of God regardless of how many people deny the fact. Let those who deny prove their premise. Those who believe it can prove their faith by being steadfast against evil. We are told to overcome evil with good......."

If one can't pray the gay away, I guess that suicide should be an option, too? I am gay. I could not care less about having the right to marry someone of the same sex.

Proposition Eight
It's not the label "gay" or whatever that should be the problem but the unacceptable behavior behind the label. If the “label” conforms to society’s mores they will not be singled out for scrutiny and/or discrimination. All people since the beginning of time discriminate: Think saber-tooth tiger versus antelope; one will eat you, the other will feed you. Society has the right and duty to discriminate against dangerous, threatening, and various inappropriate behaviors not suitable to the smooth functioning of its interactions. This is where gays must not be treated the same as natural man/woman unions with children called “families” who are the bedrock of society. Gay’s lifestyle, hence associated behaviors, do not resemble natural unions no matter how they try to camouflage their repulsive acts. If allowed to raise kids they will impose their views, directly or not, of deviant lifestyle as normal. These kids will be confused of their own identity at best, lose their sense of direction/purpose in life, and, at worse, be subject to depression and suicide. Other negatives abound. This is not something society should sanction!

What a wimp
I visited Pepperdine with my son, a prospective student. I came away thinking, great views but academically and spiritually lacking. Professor Peterson's principled stand make me think that perhaps I had been wrong. President Benton's comments made me realize that I had been right all along.

How can the guy be president of a college and not understand the term: 'partisan politics'?

How can someone who is president of a Christian college not realize that we are in a culture war and removing vital support in the height of the battle is so damaging? Whatever your views on Prop 8, nobody likes a traitor.

As Mark Steyn said: "The elevation of the right not to be offended into the bedrock principle of democratic society will, in the end, tear it apart."

seethelight
I believe the sincerity of your post just as I believe Terry who put it as simply as possible. The problem is that while I may respect your religious convictions, I have no desire to live them; nor do I think the government should force me to subscribe to your religion. It is in that light that I think the Biblical aspect should not be placed in the foreground.

Unions NOT Marriage

"One of the world’s most prominent gay entertainers offered some rare common sense on the explosive issue of same sex marriage.

In New York City for a gala AIDS benefit, rock legend Sir Elton John appeared with his long-time partner, David Furnish.

“We’re not married,” he told the press, “Let’s get that straight. We have a civil partnership…I don’t want to be married!

I’m very happy with a civil partnership. The word ‘marriage,’ I think, puts a lot of people off. You get the same equal rights that we do when we have a civil partnership. Heterosexual people get married.

We can have civil partnerships”. If more people on all sides of this issue embraced the simple, irrefutable logic of this clear-thinking superstar, a vastly divisive, unnecessary controversy could reach a successful and amicable solution."

Michael Medved

Faith and gayness
"God wrote it. I believe it. That settles it." No one on this thread actually said it(apologies to post #44; we were writing at the same time), most of you being philosophical cowards, but that is the meat of your argument.

One little itty bitty problem with that train of thought. Your argument is in the realm of faith and religious dogma. It is also in clear contradiction with the 1st amendment. Reason one to throw out Prop 8.

The Bible is not the inerrant word of God. I wrote it, I believe it, that settles it.





JamesB writes,
"Poor Will
Always a brides maid, never a bride"

----------

haha! Ain't that the truth.

However, I did get laid this weekend. So when I wrote my post last night I was in really good spirits.

People should remember (the ones who say: "it's over! you lost!"). It's not over. The very same proposition can go onto the ballot again - and again - until it's passed. Momentum is on the gay marriage side. That's where you'd place your bets if you were doing odds in Vegas.

But the truth is: the CA Supreme Court will almost certainly find Prop 8 to be unconstitutional. After all, the CA Supreme Court started this ball rolling by saying gay marriage is a "fundamental right" in the first place.

What weapon to use
It is sad to see how little emphasis is placed on the use of the only weapon which can be used against the abomination of homosexuality. The Bible is the Word of God regardless of how many people deny the fact. Let those who deny prove their premise. Those who believe it can prove their faith by being steadfast against evil. We are told to overcome evil with good. The good we will have to do is by making our society strong with marriages and families who practice the morality defined by the Bible. You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind, and strength and your neighbor as yourself. No one who practices homosexuality believes those two commandments from Almighty God, the Man Jesus Christ, Who proved His purpose by overcoming sin and death. That is the basis of this issue.

my 2 cents
Sex between men is a sin

Sex between women is a sin

The solution?

(Brace yourselves - here comes the "C" word)

Chastity

Activist in General
Quote: Gay activists are never satisfied and they are never happy. It is far better to side with their opponents.


I wish this would sink in to everyone who's in this battle. These people are to be defeated, period. Pick a side and fight, diplomacy is a waste of time.

@Allen
If you feel that Mike Adams is incorrect in any of the points he has made concerning the individuals of whom he speaks, will you please provide factual evidence of this? If, alternately, your only complaint is that he's speaking in a way that you happen to dislike, would you please admit this?

There are no marriage laws in the

United States that discriminate based on sexual orientation. None, zip, zilch, nada.

Do not let the defiant same-sex sodomites get away with this lie. Challenge them everytime you hear it.

On a different subject, go here to sign a petition demanding Obama provide an original birth certificate before the electoral college votes:

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId= 81550

Retired Geek
"Ever watch a Homosexual parade? The only goal is to shock and degrade any semblance of normality.

Its difficult or impossible to disagree w that statement. To me the whole deal around beong gay is sex. If I'm wrong why do gay parades revolve almost completely around sex? If its supposed to celebrate the gay "lifestyle" again why does it involve nearly naked men simulating sex acts.

Poor Will
Always a brides maid, never a bride

The vote sends a clear message
If a family values conservative issue like no to homosexual marriage can win like this in California, added to the 30 states that have already said no to same sex marriage, the gavel has fallen. It's not about civil rights, its not about hate crimes, its not about alternate lifestyles, or tolerance. It's now about what's left of the moral structure of a once Godly nation, that still has enough common sense to realize that the hope of our future lies with teaching our children right from wrong in a family with male and female leadership as God intended.

Really?
As I have said repeatedly since the onset, the activist involved in the protests have been wrong from the get go and have damaged the movement they represent as well as destroyed any notion of tolerance and anti-hate they may have claimed.

That being said, I find it odd that Dr. Adams would be a voice for civil political discourse. As of his last column, he has made it clear that intellectual terrorism is his first choice.

Dr. Adams

Freedom and equality are like two buckets in a well. When one goes up, the other goes down.
Author unknown

Dr. Adams
If we get to vote on your responses, I vote for response number three.

The Gaystapo! LMAO!
I’m still waiting for The Flaming Nancys to attack a Church in Oakdale, Red Bluff or the inner city where Prop 8 was SOUNDLY rejected!

MARRIAGE IS GODS ALONE
EVERYTHING HAS A SOURCE THE FOUNDATION OF MARRIAGE IS ONE MAN ONE WOMAN JOINED BY GOD. THE
PEOPLE WHO DO NOT ENGAGE IN MARRIAGE,DO NOT PRACTICE ANY RELIGIOUS PRACTICE ALSO VIEW IT THIS WAY. ONLY THE REPROBATE MIND COALITION HAVE TAKEN IT UPON THEMSELVES TO COMPARE LYNCHINGS, CHURCH BURNINGS, SLAVERY, AND ALL THE OTHER SUFFERINGS DONE BY JIM CROW DEMOCRATS
IN THE NAME OF PEACE AND UNITY.

AynRand ...
"Constitutional muster.."

The Fourteenth Amendment, equal protection.

I'd mostly agree
Homosexuals have exactly the same rights, under the Constitution, as heretosexuals do.

Rights belong to individuals, not couples. Marriage is a legal status, defined by each State, and is considered a contract between two individuals. You don't have a "right" to marry because it involves someone else agreeing to marry you.

What can be achieved through marriage can be accomplished via civil unions, living wills, power of attorneys, etc. for homosexuals.

Apparently, that's not good enough for them. So what is the real reason behind this? Insurance? Access to family plans? Rights of survivorship for benefits? What?

Tell ya what, being fair and open minded, I'm willing to vote for adoption of gay marriage if the libs go ahead and vote for national concealed carry.

Look at attached site

Mike is right, there will never be any appeasement. Destroying icons give the compulsive pervert a thrill. A demented ego, strives to change the world to accept perversion as normal.

Read this; One of the hundreds of letters like this; to the Editors in San Fran Chronicle in response to its article: to tone down vicious attacks.

Jimfromsac
11/23/2008 8:26 PM
“Religion is the primary problem in out nation . Religion calls Ignorance the good, and corrupts the minds that engage in it. Appeasing Religion is mental suicide.”

Now, do you think gay marriage embraces religion or sets out to destroy it?
For those that sit on the fence and say, “Its only about marriage and does not concern me,” go to this site and get a sense of the homosexual activist’s ultimate goal.

http://www.abidingtruth.com/pfrc/books/pinkswastika/


Government Involvement in Marriage

Why did the government become involved in marriage?

Modern Marriage started in 1753 in England and Wales and it was named the Marriage Act of 1753 or Lord Hardwicke's Marriage Act and it called for the couple to be at least 21 years old and if they weren't then they needed the consent of the parent.

Before this law the couple could be as young as seven years old and get married.

They also had to get married in a church or the marriage wouldn't be legal.

The original Marriage Act was the result of the many orphans being abandoned and becoming a burden on society.

The Marriage contract made men responsible for their children relieving society from the financial burden of raising those children and placing it where it belonged.

'Collectivists' always want to take the 'Bad Decisions' and actions of individuals and place the results of those bad actions and decisions on othe American Citizens in the name of 'Sacrifice For The Common Good'.

The Marriage act NEVER had anything to do with sexual preferences but rather the protection of children - which Homosexuals cannot have by definition.

Homosexuals want the rights and benefits extended to those who conceive and bear children even though they are incapable of procreation.

Society by law, decided to extend benefits to the blind.

Analogous to what Homosexuals want by 'Homosexual Marriage' is for a sighted citizen to receive the same rights as someone who is blind.

Homosexuals immediately respond by citing instances where a man and woman are married that are incapable of procreation, because of medical issues.

Present laws do NOT require a medical exam to prove the ability of a couple to procreate before marriage which of course be a violation of privacy rights.

Every American Citizen has the same right to marry someone of the opposite sex as any other American Citizen.




Maybe...
The President of the university thought, also, that the deceptive nature of those ads didn't really reflect too well on Pepperdine.

Homosexual Marriage is about a license

There are restrictions on acquiring licenses.

Not everyone can acquire a 'Medical' license because there are restrictions.

Not everyone can acquire a 'Drivers' license because there are restrictions.

Not everyone can acquire a 'Pilot' license because there are restrictions.

Not everyone can acquire a 'Marriage' license because there are restrictions.

This is NOT about 'Civil Rights' it is about restrictions on acquiring a license.

Homosexuals have exactly the same rights and protections under the Constitution and Bill of Rights as every other American Citizen.

This whole controversy is about a group of people who have chosen to be deviants and want everyone else to call them normal - it has NOTHING to do with Civil Rights.

Homosexuals Have Same Rights

Homosexuals want respect of both themselves and their lifestyle - yet most homosexuals and certainly their leaders, show NO respect for anyone else and their lifestyle.

The goal of most Homosexuals is a complete and utter vulgarization of society.

Ever watch a Homosexual parade? The only goal is to shock and degrade any semblance of normality.

This is NOT about 'Civil Rights', but about 'Vulgar Rights'.

There are no orderly quests for Civil Unions which most Americans would agree to - rather it is a vicious attack on anything 'Sacred' - anything 'Traditional'.

Most Homosexuals hate themselves and anyone who does not agree with their vulgar lifestyle.

Regardless of what Homosexuals gain, it will never be enough to satisfy or sate their unnatural lusts.

Homosexuals want to deny others freedom of religion, freedom of speech and even freedom of thought - unless all others praise them and their deviance from normality.

The concept of live and let live is 'Anathema' to militant Homosexuals.

God defined marriage?
Perhaps I'm wrong,but didn't pagan,pre-Christian societies have marriages?
man-woman only,naturally.
I don't believe "marriage" is a creation of any religion.
Maybe they just called them "civil unions"...8-)

Dr Adams great read, thanks for....
pointing out the incredible (feigning to be what one is not or to believe what one does not) mindset, otherwise know as Hipocrisy.

The Moral Majority has spoken.

As some have pointed out, it soon will become very risky for the "Gaystapo" to ply their tactics, as more and more Muslims populate America.

The greatest insult, as I was taught, is to completly ignore pesky intruders such as those that show up here from time to time with their demented outlook on life.




Prop. 8
The anarchy of the homosxuals is just more of psychopolitics as defined by Beria: loyalty is to himself. This is destroyed by demonstrating errors to him, showing him that In rearranging loyalties we must have a command of their values. In the animal the first he does not remember, cannot act or does not trust himself. The second loyalty is to his family unit, his parents and brothers and sisters. This is destroyed by making a family unit economically non-dependent, by lessening the value of marriage, by making an easiness of divorce and by raising the children whenever possible by the State.

For Frog
"...governments have seen it as their responsibility to attach certain financial encumbrances as well as financial benefits for those entering into that contract. Like it or not, that then makes marriage a contract that must be able to withstand Constitutional muster."
I will ask the obvious question, what does constitutional muster have to do with contract law? And secondly, assuming the government's tax advantages to heterosexual marriage do make constitutional scrutiny necessary, the government would win hands down. The government has an interest in seeing that the population of the state replenishes itself. It is not required to watch as it becomes extinct. The only way to do that is to encourage heterosexual marriage so they can bring up children. And, protecting our most vulnerable citizens, the children, is also a priority of the government. Protecting and encouraging gay marriage achieves none of these goals. Not to mention that this is a government of the people, for the people and by the people. The people have spoken....repeatedly. The Gaystapo just refuses to accept the answer.

sarah, you didn't happen to ...
go to Israel in the summer of 2007, did you? Yes, Colorado is a big state, but I met a young woman from Colorado named Sarah, touring from our group.

Funny and true story: The Sarah I met was a very pretty, dark-haired, young woman, who could have passed for a Middle-eastern woman, with here olive complected skin. At one stop, I think it was Ein-Gedde, she was offered something like 20 goats and a couple of camels for her hand in marriage. Talking with our tour guide, that turned out to be what was considered a very high offer.

Tod Kozeluh
Lexinton, KY

Appeasement doesn't work!
"What is not appropriate is trying to appease these radicals. Gay activists are never satisfied and they are never happy. It is far better to side with their opponents."

The reason why the PROP 8 measure was even close was:

1. It was worded in a confusing manner. Many who thought they were voting for traditional marriage voted no, thinking they were voting against homosexual marriage.

2. Many who do not support homosexual marriage, voted no simply to appease, not fully realizing the terror attack of litigation the supporters were planning against the public schools, Christian community, particularly the Catholic Church, and any other conscionable objectors and 'straight' institutions (see how they forced eHarmony to accommodate their lifestyle).

There's no appeasing this horde as anyone can clearly see from the Alinsky type attacks they've been carrying out across CA against supporters of the measure.

All but one, that is. They haven't dared go near a mosque or an Islamic site of any sort. Why? Because they know Christians and the law abiding tolerate and turn the other cheek. The Muslims, who also strongly oppose homosexual activity of any sort, would probably deal with them in quite a different manner - and they would find legal justification in being angered and incited to violence.

And there's the lesson to be learned here. Bullies need to be opposed as bullies should be - and not bargained with.

I have to cringe when ...
I read posts like the second one from Sarah. She tells us of her Christian faith and then tells will to "go suck a big one."

Is this what it means to be Christian today? I only ask because, last Friday, when I heard about announcement about eHarmony's decision in New Jersey to provide services for gays, I totally lost my witness and started cussing and swearing to my co-workers about, well, I'll uses Adams term "Gaystapo" because mine weren't the type fit for print.

I say that to admit that I'm as guilty of the next person of harboring frustration, and yes, even anger, at the tactics used by the left. But, after I calm down, I realize, if I become them, then I've lost.

I've been reading a short book called "Deadly Viper: Character Assassins." It's a quick read with some amazing insights. Here's one question for everyone to ponder for the day:

"What's it like to be
on the other end of me?"

Tod Kozeluh
Lexington, KY

CORRECTION:
Mike wrote:
"Just as the issue of the definition of marriage (is) not partisan, it is not even political in the truest sense of the word. Just as God created man and woman, God also created the institution of marriage. Therefore, God alone has the power to define marriage."

While I am inclined to agree with this statement, that does not explain, or preclude, how the governments in these United States have done just that. In order to protect the individual parties who enter into the marriage contract, governments have seen it as their responsibility to attach certain financial encumbrances as well as financial benefits for those entering into that contract.

Like it or not, that then makes marriage a contract that must be able to withstand Constitutional muster. That means that, in our society, governments have not only the right, but the responsibility as well, to define marriage.

This, at least partially, can be blamed on us heteros for neglecting our lifetime vows. ANNNND, may I also submit that we are at fault for penning into law, certain tax and legal benefits from the marriage contract.

I understand that all of society benefits from the children produced by marriage, but in a society of true liberty, governments do not entangle themselves in the personal choices of that society unless and until they infringe on the rights of others.

Tod Kozeluh
Lexington, KY

The organic corn cob
Ratas y Ratones, you are too much. I don't usually support picking on Will. He has problems enough without me taking part of my life to give him a few more. But i have a weakness for ridiculous images that make me laugh. I blush to admit envisioning Will and a corn cob is right up there with my visions of a muslim looking for a rock so he can clean up in the Koran prescribed way.

Tell me, Will.....
Barack Obama received only 53% of the popular vote. Since you have said that 52% is "hardly a ringing endorsement of heterosexual marriage only," wouldn't you agree that Obama's election is hardly a ringing endorsement of Obama's ideas?

willie wanker

Oh willie you are such a naughty guy.

Repubs are evil and you are pure.

We all know you want Adams.

I don't think he will ever give in.

The most masculine men ARE the most desirable aren't they?

Do try the corn cob. You will be pleased, and it is safer. You cannot get AIDs from a corn cob.



Ah, Will....
You are such a pitiful and unhappy person. In every post we see your frantic searching, even begging, for our approval of your despicable and unhealthy conduct. One of your apparent intelligence should be able to see that the "right" to marry another girly man is not a right at all. The Declaration of Independence correctly states that we are endowed with inaleinable rights by our creator. Any doubt that God chose not to give the right of marriage to two men or two women?

Your whole approach is wrong. It is your homosexual conduct that defines you, and that is what the supporters of prop 8 rejected--not you personally. Although Christians do not approve of your conduct, we welcome and encourage you to cease such conduct and join us in the joyful (not gay) exercise of our real rights.

If you believe that homosexual conduct confers specific behavioral rights, then how can you not support rappists, murderers and other behavior-based perversions? Slippery slope, eh?

Wake up and smell the coffee!

Reminds me of an...
...old saying:"California,the land of fruits and nuts.The fruits are in the North and the the nuts are in the South".

The more it changes,the more it remains the same.

Who defines "marriage?"
The State should not attempt to define "marriage." The State should only define civil unions. Traditionally, churches have always defined "marriage." Should be separation of church and State.

svensun
You hit the nail on the head! How our leftist loons miss the irony is a total mystery.

Liberals are the most tolerant people on the planet...as long as you agree with their position.

I think Will is a townhall stalker
this guy is no different than the gaystapo that Mike mentioned. This guy would find great pleasure in stalking a prop 8 supporter into a dark alley and raping him. beware! Stop the hate Will and go into counseling.

So Will you don't care that you lost?
Thomas Sowell put it well in his last post on townhall that some seem to think they have a right to win. You don't. You have a right to try, but you lost. Go to the corner and pout if you want but don tell us the clock is ticking.

My real fear is that if the homosexuals don't stop pushing their agenda into peoples face after being beaten fairly in the election process there may be some of those Yes voters that think they will have to take matters into their own hands and there will be homosexuals dead before AIDs gets them.

Adams gets it right: "Gaystapo"
If there is ANYTHING that the Prop 8 campaign has demonstrated for anyone with the eyes to see, the ears to hear, and the brain to think, it is the absolute HATE and ANIMUS that is pouring forth like an open spigot from homosexuals. I can't help but laughing in astonishment at the recollection of all the 'Stop the H8!' signs I saw all over LA this year, carried by people who are animated by nothing BUT HATE!!!

As Dennis Prager has been pointing out, it is a standard tactic of the Left to accuse their enemies of the crimes the Left itself commits, and this example rings clear as a bell.

NOW we have people being blacklisted, their careers beings destroyed because they DARED to actually express an opinion and contribute towards the expression of their deepest, most personal FIRST AMENDMENT rights!!!

Now, GAY, LEFTIST HOLLYWOOD is the animating force behind a NEW BLACKLIST!!! As we speak, the 'Gaystapo' is scouring the political contribution lists, seeking the names of anyone within their reach who might have dared fund Prop 8, and planning their complete and utter banishment!!!

The irony astounds me, and seems to utterly escape these pitiful souls, so wrapped up in their campaign to spread 'love' by wielding the tools of hate.


As a Pepperdine Alumnus
As an alumnus and financial supporter of Pepperdine, I find Benton’s statement about this issue to be disturbing. I plan to give my financial support to institutions that are not afraid to stand up for values that reflect my beliefs and institutions that do not apologize for those beliefs we hold to be true. What a sad day for Pepperdine and what a sad day for me as an alumnus because I feel ashamed to say ‘Pepperdine does hold christian values’. I hope more people express their disappointment with their statements and wallets.

Time is on the YES side
30 states now ban homosexual marriage. More will be on the way. Even homosexual leaders proclaimed such in the USA today of Friday 11/21. Makes Will look like a total lemming.

Linking the sin to the color of skin has failed. Minorities will not buy it, and they are on pace in California to be the majority in the next decade.

It is inevitable that youth becomes more conservative as they grow older.

Homosexuals are killing themselves with AIDS by the thousands, homosexuals are not immortal, and are dying off faster than heterosexuals.

Muslims will be the majority in several European countries this coming decade. When that happens the first behavior to go will be homosexuality.

When I see posts like Will authored, you can only wonder how some people are so far removed from reality.

Excellent article!
Even if Will the braindead gay ( and that quite clearly doesn't mean happy) man whose daddy treated him bad wants to whine.
The vote was YES you snivelling loser. YES, YES, YES. Get over it. It is now enshrined in the California constitution. Why is it that the rabid homosexual groups become raving lunatics every time they don't get their way? This is how democracy works idiot. You sure like it when it goes in your favour but you act like it is unfair when it doesn't.
Why do you come here? Why do you read these articles that offend you so? You are a pathetic laughingstock and obviously a loser of monumental proportions. We are ALL laughing at you! Do you really enjoy that?
Amazing.

Mike is blurring the gains made by gays.
Let's read this overblown paragraph again. Mike so desperately seems to think that anti-gay marriage propositions in CA will ALWAYS be doomed to failure:

"Proposition 8 passed in California because virtually every Republican and a very sizeable proportion of Democrats supported a reaffirmation of the simple belief that marriage should be confined only to the union of one man and one woman. The fact that measures like Proposition 8 always win when subjected to popular vote – even in the most liberal states – shows just how un-controversial the issue really is."

Ok. Let's get this straight...uh...I mean CORRECT!: Californians voted in 2000, eight years ago, on an amendment to the CA constitution banning gay marriage. It was then called Proposition 22. It passed with a hefty 61% Yes vote ("yes" on an amendment limiting marriage to 1 man, 1 woman).

All good. Let's now fast-forward eight years later to a NEW constitutional ban, proposed after the CA Supreme Court legalized gay marriage in May, 2008, now called Proposition 8.

Proposition 8 passed with a 52% Yes vote ("yes" limiting marriage to 1 man, 1 woman). This is hardly a ringing endorsement of heterosexual marriage only. The numbers are going the wrong way for the "1 man, 1 woman" folks.

The mormon church knew that there was a strong liklihood this prop 8 would fail, which is why our good friends at the LDS temples in Utah donated many millions of dollar in contributions, funneled the cash into the CA "Yes on 8" campaign, to be used primarily in tv advertising that dramatised little children coming home from school telling their mommy that they learned a story where "a princess marries a princess!". Cut to mom's horrific face.

Time is not on the supporters of Yes on 8's side. Time. Not on your side. Only a matter of time now. The clock is ticking.

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