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Tuesday, April 08, 2008
Mike Adams :: Townhall.com Columnist
Forward this Column or Get Stuck on Stupid
by Mike Adams
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If your kid comes home from college one day and tells you that your Christian faith is stupid, welcome to the world in which I live. The college environment does that to our kids. It makes good Christian students stupid. By that I mean it turns them into liberals, atheists, or both. Three out of four Christian kids (that’s 75% for those of you who attend UNC-Wilmington) abandon the church when they go to college and only about a third of them return by age 30. In other words, most stay stuck on stupid.

Christians and conservatives could simply whine about this, but then we would just sound like liberals. Instead, we need to take action. Before I tell you what you can do to help fix this problem, let me clarify what we’re facing.

Two Jewish researchers went on campus (this is not a joke) last year to see just how anti-Semitic the faculty were. Their findings? In a survey of over 6,600 college professors across the country, they found virtually no anti-Semitism. Instead, they found a distinct bias against evangelical students: More than half (53%) of college faculty view evangelical students unfavorably. Mormons are next at 33%, followed by Muslims at 22%.

Let me put this in proper perspective: In the United States of America, professors are two and a half times more likely to view evangelical Christian students unfavorably than Muslim students.

The study also found that: Professors are five times more likely to be atheists than the general public: 19% vs. 4%; There are far fewer Evangelicals among the faculty than the general public: 11% vs. 33%; Professors are more than twice as likely to identify themselves as liberal than the general public: 48% to 22%. (This is consistent with an earlier study which found that Democrats outnumber Republicans ten to one on college faculty.)

But enough with the statistics - what are Christians doing about this? Just take a moment to imagine the following:

There’s someone speaking on college campuses capable of - without quoting Bible verses - showing students solid evidence why Christianity is the most reasonable worldview. Imagine further that the four-point presentation this person gives is so provocative and entertaining that not only Christians attend, but atheists and skeptics show up as well (swelling some audiences to over 1500 like a recent N.C. State presentation). Imagine that during Q&A atheists are treated respectfully, but their arguments are exposed as fallacious. And imagine that there is a book, DVD series, website and TV show available for follow up that strengthens Christians and challenges skeptics to consider Christianity.

You don’t need to just imagine it happening because it already is. Dr. Frank Turek, founder and President of www.CrossExamined.org, is leading a team of Christian apologists to conduct I Don't Have Enough Faith to Be an Atheist seminars on college campuses and at churches across the country. The seminar, based on Turek Geisler’s award-winning book of the same name, is outstanding (back in September 2006, I told you that this is the book that helped bring Jimmy Duke to Christ).

I hosted Frank here at UNCW a couple of weeks ago, and I can tell you that the Christians were emboldened and the atheists were respectfully but firmly refuted. In fact, we’ve already invited Frank back for next semester, which will coincide nicely with UNCW’s three-year celebration of Charles Darwin (“diversity” demands that we have an opposing view, I’m told).

Please go to www.CrossExamined.org to invite Frank or someone from his team to your campus or church. If you can’t get into the fight directly, then maybe you can help others do so by donating on the website (Frank and his team charge students nothing for campus events—they rely on tax-deductible donations). At the very least, get the book, watch the TV show (Sundays at 6 p.m. Eastern on DirecTV Channel 378), and visit the website to equip yourself and your kids with the truth.

It’s time for conservatives and Christians to stop whining about how secular liberals are dominating our college campuses. It is time to take action and reach out to college students who are stuck on stupid.

Author's Note: Despite the results of last weekend's game, Dr. Adams will still speak at UNC-Chapel Hill this Thursday, April 10th at 7 p.m. in 209 Manning Hall. Protestors will not be permitted to bring food into the auditorium. Feminists will be charged $10 admission. Adults and homeless veterans will get in free.

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About The Author
Mike Adams is a criminology professor at the University of North Carolina Wilmington and author of Feminists Say the Darndest Things: A Politically Incorrect Professor Confronts "Womyn" On Campus.
 
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Quick note
There is not a word about homosexuality in this column. Let's see what Will can come up with this time...

College Didn't Do It, My Family Did...
I already had a rather unfavorable view towards evangelical Christianity before I ever went to colllege, let alone high school. It all came from my household, a shabby two-bedroom apartment shared by me and my parents. There, we would watch cartoons on Sunday mornings instead of going to church (I think I've only been to a couple of churches in my lifetime.) My parents, belonging to two different religions, complicated living even more. That, and the fact that they argued and fought with each other, never gave me any time to study some seminary or the Bible or such (I've only read about ten pages of it in my lifetime.)

As far as I'm concerned, I came to have an unfavorable view of evangelical Christianity based on some of their campaigns against television , video games and the so-called "homosexual agenda", not because I was indoctrinated by some school, but rather from the dysfunction of my family.

Yes, there is such a thing as a dysfunctional family. I'm living proof, and I pray that no one follows the path I took if they value their brains and their integrity. I learned to pray from my parents, despite all of their shortcomings.

But!
It could be! Wheee!!!

Just thinking out loud here,
but maybe the reason why there is a "distinct bias" against "evangelical students", and not against jewish students, say, is that the jewish students rarely proselytize. Let's explore this.

Evangelize: to preach the gospel to; to convert to christianity.

Evangelicals, by nature, then, are forever trying to "change" the non-believer or casual believer or incorrectly-believing believer. His aim is to convert the atheist or jew or muslim student to the wonderful glories of Leviticus & Jesus Christ & the four gospels. Evangelicals do not understand the meaning of the phrase "No means no". The majority of students, of all racial & ethnic persuasions, do not feel an intense need for "redemption" that the evangelical feels and is forever selling. The evangelical student approaches you with an affable smile and a bill of goods. The jewish student has no bill of goods, nothing to sell. American muslims on campus rarely indulge the need for proselytization either.

Mike writes, "It's time for conservatives and Christians to stop whining about how secular liberals are dominating our college campuses. It is time to take action and reach out to college students who are stuck on stupid."

STOP WHINING.
TAKE ACTION.
REACH OUT.

Evangelize.

I've always wondered why some jews don't mind being lumped in with the Leviticus & Exodus & Matthew & Revelations quoting evangelical. They are completely different animals. Jews, by nature, are live & let live. A great (libertarian?) motto; a fine creed for life. Evangelical christians are the opposite.

Proselyting
Will, maybe you're looking at this the wrong way. Imagine that you had just learned some very important information that has significantly changed and improved your life. Wouldn't you want to share that with your family, friends, and others? Really, all it is is someone wanting to exchange with you and offer you something they feel may be valuable to you. But nobody forces you to enter into the exhange. You are always free to say 'no'. I understand the frustration if the person evangelizing 'won't take no for an answer' and continues to pester you, but still, they have no way, short of doing it at gunpoint, of making you listen. Just try and realize that they are doing it because they care about you. They feel that what they have to offer has the ability to help you. Most, if not all, of them really don't want to be a pest. If you try to look at it this way, I think your frustration level will decrease and who knows? You may even learn a thing or two that you hadn't thought of before from a new friend.

brainon: OK, I promised myself I wasn't
going to bring up the "gay angle" here, but the parallels are too striking.

Maybe the homosexual "militant", who brings you a message of homosexual love & inclusiveness & tolerance & redemption & that sense of joy & freedom (upon personal acceptance) is really not so different than the "militant" (evangelizing) evangelical who has found himself opened up to the love of Christ, has found forgiveness & redemption & freedom & brotherly love & personal joy.

There are strong parallels here worth exploring. "Militant" homosexuals are trying to "save" the live of the gay teenager. The gay teen doesn't have to live in fear & repression, doesn't have to live as others before him lived; in the closet, lonely, made to feel "unnatural". The "militant" gay tells this teenager that he is GOOD, he is NATURAL, there is nothing to fear, that life is beautiful, that YOU are beautiful just as you are. This is a very real, very positive proselytization. The gay man has the chance to "save" the next generation of gay teens & young adults from a life of guilt & shame (qualities society still manages to graft onto the subject of homosexuality, thereby corrupting impressionable kids).

Evangelicals want to "save" souls. Evangelicals want others to understand that there is a life beyond this one; that living through Christ is GOOD and beautiful & where guilt & shame can be transcended.

There are definate parallels here. This is worth exploring. In the future.


Will
Come on man,we all know that all the evangelist is doing is trying to get the kid to open up his heart to God. While all the gay militant is doing is trying to get the kid to open up his mouth to him.

WIll
No, Jesus told his followers to go forth and spread the good news of salvation to the world. You just want to feel better about putting your thingy where it doesn't belong. Big difference.

Peacefrog2r
beat me to it, dang it!

Atheists
Really have an illogical and untenable position. They claim to know there is no God, yet in order to know that they'd have to know everything, which would mean that they are God themselves! So guess who they worship?

Will, your comparison is illogical; you are comparing a position of those who are reaching others with eternal salvation with those who want to force acceptance of an immoral sexual behavior. Christians do not force their beliefs on anyone, yet homosexuals are using the courts to force acceptance of their immoral lifestyle.

"I Don't Have Enough Faith To Be An Atheist" is an outstanding book using logic and philosophy to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the Christian faith is the only true worldview. I buy them by the case and give them free at a book table set up on a univerity campus. I have actually had one person come back to me several months after picking up a copy and state that the book led him to the Christian faith. I highly recommend it, and I challenge Will to read the book

Epistemology 101
Glenn Chatfield writes "Atheists really have an illogical and untenable position. They claim to know there is no God, yet in order to know that they'd have to know everything, which would mean that they are God themselves!"

Wrong. The burden of proof is always on the proponent; there is no logical obligation to first "rule out the possibility" of conjecture lacking credible evidentiary support, which is why it's often observed that one can't prove a negative.

Certainty does not mean "static." It simply means that, within the context of one's knowledge, the evidence for a given proposition is overwhelming. Certainty does not require infallibility or omniscience. Belief unsupported by credible evidence is unjustified and presumptively invalid.

Moreover, atheism is not a proof that god does not exist: instead, it is the assertion that theism does not provide an adequate proof of the existence of god.

Thus the arrogance lies with the theists claiming to "know" all sorts of things flattering to their belief systems for which there is no evidence whatsoever.

and the reason is....
"In a survey of over 6,600 college professors across the country, they found virtually no anti-Semitism. Instead, they found a distinct bias against evangelical students: More than half (53%) of college faculty view evangelical students unfavorably. Mormons are next at 33%, followed by Muslims at 22%."

Gee whiz, big surprise! The top three crazy religions (I guess they forgot to ask about Scientology!) were viewed unfavorably. I bet most of those students were normal Christians (i.e. not loony tunes born-agains) who are sick of how that group has turned the word "Christian" into a four-letter word.

evangelical v christian
I love God. I have been in situations that I know I would have died were it not for the grace of God and his protection. I tell people I believe in God. That God is wonderful, filled with love, and the only truly personal choice we have in the world is the choice to follow the Word or not. There is no law that can control my heart or mind when it comes to my belief that Jesus died for me. There is no city or county ordinance that can stop me from choosing to give thanks for each day upon rising from my bed.
That is the beauty of God and God's Word. All people are given a choice to do good or not. Yet the Evangelicals, the Atheists and the Secularists are more than happy to lobby for, and pass, laws that restrict who people can marry (I'm not a big fan of Will but I see no reason to make a civil law based on religious grounds), when a person can have a drink, or what kind of safety equipment to wear when riding the transportation of one's means. (seat belts, bicycle and motorcycle helmets.)
Only God gives us true choice, not coercion with the threat of losing all your worldly goods and freedom if you do not comply with the world of indenturement to the government. God is not like the president of the HOA, the local city/county council, or even Congressmen and Presidential Hopefuls who like to buy our votes by promising to give us what we want in exchange for taking even more choice away from us.
Christians just want to love God and let others know there is a way to have a joyful life through following the Word of God. They recognize that the choice is still up to the individual to accept or reject God's Comandments. Evangelicals want to force me to dance (or not) to their tune because they have the righteous and moral authority to browbeat me into submission.
I prefer being the Christian.

The problem with some ...
evangelicals is not THAT they share their faith but HOW they share it. A quiet and reverent demeanor speaks far more loudly than many realize.

I think it was Saint Francis of Assisi that said, "Preach the Gospel always. Use words if necessary."

Will
re: your first comment (12:49 AM), with all due respect, your analysis completely fails to take into account the fact that Jews WERE viciously persecuted, exiled, hunted down and killed for all plus-6000 years of their existence. They have been the victim of every type of discrimination, even in "polite" society they were more subtly ostracized up until two or three generations ago. So your "explanation" that active evangelization leads directly to bias simply does not hold up.

My point is that ostracism based on religion is never "deserved."

On campuses this bias takes the form of professors mocking Christians and their beliefs in class with no opportunity for rebuttal, or if allowed, the rebuttals mocked and handled in a very un-professorial manner, pro-life groups' posters in the student union defaced and torn down, student tables at "group days" being ganged up on and vandalized (both of the latter happened all the time when I attended college; I'm Catholic).

Your first comment (whether you intend it to or not) certainly implies that Christians, well, kind of deserve bias against them -- for evangelizing -- and this is simply not true.

Beckie, great post!!
I received a lot of flack from my Christian brethren a few years back because I voted AGAINST the marriage amendment when it was on the ballot. My point was/is that Jesus did not run for city council so he could make a law to change your heart. Christianity can't/won't/doesn't work that way!!! HE wants our hearts, not just coerced observance!! Laws may change how you behave but they have little control over the heart!

Thanks, Beckie!

The 7Sticks wrote:
As far as I'm concerned, I came to have an unfavorable view of evangelical Christianity based on some of their campaigns against television , video games and the so-called "homosexual agenda", not because I was indoctrinated by some school, but rather from the dysfunction of my family.

I can concur 7Sticks. Nevertheless, you don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. The greatest of hypocrisy is often seen through the eyes of a child watching their parent.

On another note:
Everything is agenda driven these days. The gospel is a stench in the nostrils of those who are perishing.

There is a hatred for Christians and the gospel these days. Not that some of it may be well deserved. We've all seen those who do not exemplify the love and mercy Christ demonstrated.
Nevertheless, the presecution Christian college students face by professors and peers in college is quite strong.

Where's the tolerance? Where's the acceptance of diverse opinion? Isn't that what colleges are suppose to purport?

No, the truth is, colleges are designed by the liberal establishment to shape and mold (brainwash) the young minds into radical far left loons, and Christians, by their very nature of freedom, moves contrary to that.

They twist our future grade school teachers into mind-numbing far left loons who throw out phonics and seek to remove parental authority.

Athesists DO NOT want to reason simply because it challenges their faith in unbelief.

But God's invisible qualities and divine nature has been seen by what has been made so man is without excuse.

It only took Will
till his second post to bring up the "GAY" issue! ILMAO!!!
Will, how does it feel to have an empty soul? No! Really! I want to know if you have ulcers or any anxiety problems from all the hate filled days you spend here!

Here is something to lift your spirits, WIll:

(March 12, 2008) The National Gay & Lesbian Chamber of Commerce (NGLCC) today announced that Richard Ellis, Vice President of Communications for McDonald’s USA, has been elected to the Board of Directors. “We could not be more delighted with the addition of Richard to the Board,” said NGLCC Co-Founder and President Justin Nelson. “Richard brings his extensive experience in communications and public affairs to a dynamic team of leaders,” Nelson continued.

There is hope after all, Will, see!

Caliqula
I see that you and Will have a lot in common! Maybe you could exchange tellies so you don't have to be alone in your hatred!

Less hard core religion
I hope more young people eschew evangelical religion in their lives. This hard core form of ignorance leads to their desire to control people's lives they find inferior.

Regrettably, liberal religion also concurs in controlling people's lives in their belief in redistribution of income and a naive pacifist view of the world. If we love them, they will love us. Not in the real world! So a pox on both liberal and conservative religion, and this includes Islam, an intolerant faith that allows for women to be treated as slaves.

Will
How many times do you have to be told that most of us really don't care that you're gay. We're sick of your constant harping on your "gayness," and your assumed status of put-upon victim.

So you're gay. BFD. I don't really give two sh*ts and I doubt that many here on TH are waiting with bated breath to hear you constantly whine about your gayness and the trials and tribulations of Will.

Here's a suggestion: Go someplace where homosexuality is central to the discussion and spill your guts there. I'm sure there's plenty of gay victimhood sites on the net.

Will/Caliqula
maybe you two can have your first get together at Macky D's.

Tyler
Bingo.

The7Sticks
I was a bit confussed by your comments. Did one or both of your parents claim to be Christians?

You seem to be saying you are repelled by Christianity because your parents were bad examples, yet you say they never attended church. Maybe your parents only THOUGHT they were Christians. There are a lot of people in the world today under that particular delusion. In fact, Jesus warned in his sermons that many people would claim to be his, and he would say to them "Depart from me, for I never knew you."

Your parents sound more like they were trying to pass off a particular political view as Christianity. Sometimes it is easy to confuse the two.

I would hope that at some point in your life you would give Jesus a fair chance. Find a good Bible based church and attend for awhile (maybe 3 to 6 months) and try really reading the Bible.

Maybe Christianity is just a lot of bunk, but maybe, just maybe, it is the eternal truth. Surely, something so important deserves more time than you have given it.
It could be the most important thing you ever do.

Ah, arrogant atheist!
Tacitus X writes: "The burden of proof is always on the proponent"

Read the book and you will find proof beyond a reasonable doubt. First principles say that God has to exist since being must come from being, and we are beings - hence we come from a being. Also, Biology 101 says life cannot come from non-life; something can not come from nothing - hence ruling out evolution before science even has a chance to refute it.

"Certainty does not require infallibility or omniscience."

Actually, to claim to know everything does indeed require omniscience - that's the definition of the word. Only by knowing everything about everything can once come to the absolute conclusion that there is no God.

"Belief unsupported by credible evidence is unjustified and presumptively invalid."

The Christian faith has plenty of credible evidence, but evolution does not. Apply the same standard to evolution!

"atheism is not a proof that god does not exist: instead, it is the assertion that theism does not provide an adequate proof of the existence of god."

I never stated atheism "proves" anything, rather I stated that atheisim claims to KNOW there is no God.

"Thus the arrogance lies with the theists claiming to 'know' all sorts of things flattering to their belief systems for which there is no evidence whatsoever."

The evidence for God and the Christian faith is abundant, if one chooses to examine it without bias. Not enough time or space here to discuss it - read the book.

Glenn Chatfield
Glenn writes: "(atheists) Really have an illogical and untenable position. They claim to know there is no God, yet in order to know that they'd have to know everything, which would mean that they are God themselves! So guess who they worship?"

I'm an atheist. I don't believe in God any more than I believe in Santa Claus, Superman or the man in the moon. I can apply your same criticism of atheists to believers of any flavor. "You believe there is a God, yet to know that you'd have to know everything."

There is absolutely no evidence of any kind which supports the existence of an all-powerful, omnipotent, supreme being which, apparently on a whim, waved his hand and created the universe.

To me, man created God in his own image to do several things - to create moral absolutes, to control the masses and to create meaning in an otherwise meaningless existence.

That's not a bad thing, except for the fact that moral absolutes are never absolute, but change with the times, control of the masses often results in such wonderful events as the Spanish Inquisition or the beheading of people for minor infractions, and the "meaning of life" remains an enigma.

I get a little tired of people who wrap themselves in self-righteousness and, while looking down their nose, make sweeping proclamations about those who don't share their faith.

Glenn Chatfield
"Read the book and you will find proof beyond a reasonable doubt. First principles say that God has to exist since being must come from being, and we are beings - hence we come from a being. Also, Biology 101 says life cannot come from non-life; something can not come from nothing - hence ruling out evolution before science even has a chance to refute it."

Question: If "being requires being" where does God come from? Since He is a supreme BEING, wouldn't He require being to be? If something cannot come from nothing, where did God come from.

Your "logic" is fundamentally flawed and therefore false.

Bob_C
Are inquisitions and beheadings objectively and absolutely wrong?

Moneyrunner
Will never lets us forget that he's gay. Apparently his gayness is the only thing in his life that gives him identity.

Bob_C
You said: "I get a little tired of people who wrap themselves in self-righteousness and, while looking down their nose, make sweeping proclamations about those who don't share their faith."

Have you ever considered re-reading your commnets from another's perspective? Arrogance and self-righteousness doesn't begin to describe it.

Bob_C
writes:
"Your "logic" is fundamentally flawed and therefore false."

No sir! Yours is! SOMETHING/SOME BEING, started some point in time (never ending). Your not the product of a gas explosion from space, are you?
Just trying to point out, that, some being created what we know now!

Frank
Frank asks: "Are inquisitions and beheadings objectively and absolutely wrong?"

The inquisitors and executioners didn't think they were wrong because their religions, (Christianity and Islam) through their moral absolutes dictated their actions. The moral "absolutes" of Christianity and Islam differ. Each is totally convinced (through blind faith) that their absolutes are, at any given time, irrefutable and immute.

The concept of "right" and "wrong" is a man-made concept. It doesn't exist in the animal world. Man created it to raise his actions from animal to civilization.

The victims didn't think they were right.

SSGT
Again, if the universe had to have a start, so did God. Logically, you can't have it both ways.

I don't know how the universe started and I'm not arrogant enough to create fantasies to cover up my ignorance.

Bob_C
I garantee you the universe didnt start with 2 gays guys, I dont care what your religion is.


chuck
I have no idea what you mean by that statement.

Gay Conservative, it just so happens ...
that I'm wearing my shirt today makes a statement that you must deplore. My t-shirt reminds others that the Constitution guarantees the freedom OF relgion, not freedom FROM religion. I'm sorry that Constitution is an inconvenience for you, but hey, sometimes ya gotta take the good with the bad, right?

Look, if you promise not to lump me and other Christians in with all the radical evangelicals, I promise not to lump you in with the Will's of the world. Deal?

Adams
I'm hardly a college kid, I'm an old man who's thought about all this a lot during a life filled with its share of ups and downs. Your Christianity is stupid!

Atheism is still untenable
Bob_C writes: "Question: If 'being requires being' where does God come from? Since He is a supreme BEING, wouldn't He require being to be? If something cannot come from nothing, where did God come from. Your 'logic' is fundamentally flawed and therefore false."

God is the Necessary Being, while we are all contingent beings. Everything else is caused, and if something is cause there must be an origination of that cause. God is the uncaused cause of everything else.

Just because people professing the name of Christ practiced the Inquisition, that doesn't mean that is what Christianity teaches. Fred Phelps claims to be a Christian, yet he is nothing more than the leader of a cult who really has no concept of the Christian faith.

If you do not believe in moral absolutes, then on what basis can you make ANY moral judgment? You might think rape is wrong and I might think it is right; you might think robbery wrong and I might think it is right - how can you, with no moral absolutes, say that my morals are in error? What basis do you have to call anything wrong?

Glenn (aka "Bluepiper")

Bob_C
writes:
"I don't know how the universe started and I'm not arrogant enough to create fantasies to cover up my ignorance."

I hope you don't think I was suggesting that? As a Christian, that is where faith comes in to play. Thats all I'm saying.

garryg24
thanks for that deep insight! Really!

The everlasting gospel from heaven
Mike, are you sure you are trying to promote the right gospel?
Would God deceive the world? If he knew they would want
to kill his son, he might.

The everlasting gospel:

Sins are not "paid for", they are forgiven.
Those forgiven most will love most.
How can one be a "Christian" when Jesus's son, Christ,
is not born until Rev. 12:5?

Zero

Tacitus X
"...there is no logical obligation to first "rule out the possibility" of conjecture lacking credible evidentiary support,..."

I disagree. I agree that you can't prove a negative, but before you rule out the existence of God, it would seem that the reasonable thing to do would be to at least try and reach out to God just in case He exists.

Glenn Chatfield
Glenn writes: "God is the Necessary Being, while we are all contingent beings. Everything else is caused, and if something is cause there must be an origination of that cause. God is the uncaused cause of everything else."

That, sir, is an illogical statement. You can tell me that you accept the existence of God through faith. Fine. I can accept that. Faith has accomplished some remarkable things. But don't try to pass off your argument as logic. It's not.

Your statement above is logically, patently absurd. You declare that God is uncaused but the universe is not? How do you know that? You're making a flat-out statement with no evidence or even any way of supporting such a posit. I can just as easily declare that the universe is uncaused and has always existed in some form or another, though I have no more evidence of than you do of the existence of an "uncaused" cause..

Hardest mission field of all.
I think you're on one of the hardest mission fields in the world. I have young nieces and what I hear about college campuses terrifies me.

Keep up the good work!

Logically ... ?
SSGT
"Again, if the universe had to have a start, so did God. Logically, you can't have it both ways"

How do you know SSGT? you are trying to apply the laws of our universe, something cannot come from nothing, to an unknown sphere. We know that is true within the bounds of our universe only, establishing the fact that something (or someone) outside our universe, operating under a different set of laws, is responsible for our existance. We don't know what the laws are outside of our own little circle.


SSGT
SSGT writes: "I hope you don't think I was suggesting that? As a Christian, that is where faith comes in to play. Thats all I'm saying."

And I certainly have no problem with that. I just get a bit peeved at folks who look down on those of us who do not choose to accept on faith that which makes no sense to us.

Look, all I'm trying to say is that atheists are no more a monolithic group than Christians. To attribute to Christians as a whole the actions of, say, pedophile priests is as absurd as attributing to all atheists the actions of those who're working day and night to eliminate religion from all public places.


What really matters
I can't prove God exists; you can't prove God does not exist. You can't prove being gay is good and natural and beautiful; and I can't prove it isn't.

What I can do, and what we all do, is make decisions in our lives about what we want to believe, and how we want to conduct our lives.

If you add it all up, it just makes more sense (and provides a lot more comfort and sanity!) to believe that we are here for a purpose, and that there is a reason things are ordered the way they are (why men and women were designed to complement one another sexually and not men and men).

If people have taken the profoundly beautiful message of Christianity and used it as an excuse to persecute and punish, that does not make the essential belief a bad one.

It also seems to me that we conflate Enlightenment ideals (many of which are the basis for the politics of this country) and Christian spirituality and morality. They're not the same. One person can hold both beliefs, but Jesus never preached a message of rugged individualism and personal financial responsibility. By the same token, referencing the article, it is a lie and a distortion to claim that the morality of the Judeo-Christian tradition did not inform the founding principles of this nation just as importantly as did the Enlightenment. We owe a debt of gratitude, and a continuing respect, to both.

As Joseph Bottum so eloquently wrote, "The Bible may help produce the ethics a modern state needs to assume in its citizens if it is to allow them freedom." It was the tension between the freedoms of the Enlightenment, and the moral compass of a group of like believers (Christians) that made the unlikely experiment that was The United States possible. We forget this at our peril.

Atheist persecuted part 1
I am afraid that it goes both ways. Does anyone know of a politician in Congress who does not profess a belief in God?

The following is from a current post on Hotair:

The following exchange between atheist activist Rob Sherman of Buffalo Grove and Ill. Rep. Monique Davis (D-Chicago) took place Wednesday afternoon in the General Assembly as Sherman testified before the House State Government Administration Committee.

I know from experience that many of you will side with Davis (update -- apparently I was wrong! ), but I ask you to consider what the outcry would have been if a lawmaker had launched a similar attack on the beliefs of a religious person.


Atheist persecuted part 2
Davis: I don’t know what you have against God, but some of us don’t have much against him. We look forward to him and his blessings. And it’s really a tragedy -- it’s tragic -- when a person who is engaged in anything related to God, they want to fight. They want to fight prayer in school.

I don’t see you (Sherman) fighting guns in school. You know?

I’m trying to understand the philosophy that you want to spread in the state of Illinois. This is the Land of Lincoln. This is the Land of Lincoln where people believe in God, where people believe in protecting their children.… What you have to spew and spread is extremely dangerous, it’s dangerous--

Sherman: What’s dangerous, ma’am?

Davis: It’s dangerous to the progression of this state. And it’s dangerous for our children to even know that your philosophy exists! Now you will go to court to fight kids to have the opportunity to be quiet for a minute. But damn if you’ll go to [court] to fight for them to keep guns out of their hands. I am fed up! Get out of that seat!

Sherman: Thank you for sharing your perspective with me, and I’m sure that if this matter does go to court---

Davis: You have no right to be here! We believe in something. You believe in destroying! You believe in destroying what this state was built upon.

Sherman didn't budge, continued his testimony related to Gov. Rod Blagojevich's oddly misdirected $1 million grant intended for Pilgrim Baptist Church, (story) and later told me he "felt like Rosa Parks."

I love the study
So, according to the study Adams cites, as people become more educated they become less religious and more liberal? Interesting.

Glenn Chatfield - I Read The Book
"I do not have enough faith to be an atheis"t. Personally I found the book full of assertions without proof. Tired old arguments I have heard before that have been refuted. The arguments are mostly if it makes sense to me, or I cannot percieve of any alternatives, or if there is no other explanation, then there must be a God.

This book really talks to Christians to reaffirm their faith. If you are a Christian you will love this book. It is very reassuring. But like most Christians, the authors really do not understand atheism. The title alone makes my point.

Here is a very good rebuttal to the book if you care to read it.

http://www.bringyou.to/apologetics/p98.htm

glome
glome writes: "How do you know SSGT? you are trying to apply the laws of our universe, something cannot come from nothing, to an unknown sphere. We know that is true within the bounds of our universe only, establishing the fact that something (or someone) outside our universe, operating under a different set of laws, is responsible for our existance. We don't know what the laws are outside of our own little circle."

And that is where we part ways. That allows you to make any statement you wish, claim it as truth, and pooh-pooh us logical, concrete-bound peons who're restricted by mere reality.

Swampfox
I saw that exchange and found it utterly disgusting. I would like to know if any Christians could find a similar example of a public offical degrading them in such a manner

In answer to your question "does anyone know of a politician in Congress who does not profess a belief in God?" Pete Stark, congressman from California, is a "nontheist." As far as I know he may be the first congressman in history to profess such a belief.

Nancy
Great post. Very well said.

Hey glome
If you're going to apply quotes to people, at least have brain power to apply the proper quote to the proper person! Thanks anyway!

Forward this Column or Get Stuck on Stup
Some of those atheistic professors must have gotten to your article, as page two won't open.

Atheism
Trying to argue logically against an atheist is nearly impossible. Atheism is more full of holes than swiss cheese and is a very illogical belief. Try telling that to an atheist, though... At least the agnostics have the brains to claim that they don't know what to believe.

Atheism is very shallow (contrary to what proponents would like you to believe) when it comes to epistemology and metaphysics, which is why atheism continually gets trounced in logical and philosophical debates.

MikeH
Your comment shows that you completely misunderstood.

The study Adams discussed (he didn't actually cite it, a shame) shows that "educators" at colleges across the country are biased against students who are Christian, Muslim and Mormon.

I think you must be referring to Adams' opening paragraph in which he refers to no study at all (where'd he get those figures). Even there, your comment is a non-sequitur as he's clearly not talking about education in a vacuum but rather a brainwashing by a faculty that is disproportionately liberal and atheist.

Respectfully,

AFM

But what if you are wrong?
Atheists willingly deny themselves the opportunities to which Christians look forward after death.

If Atheists are right, they have lost nothing. But if they are wrong, they have purposely denied themselves heaven.

If Christians are right, they have the opportunity to go to heaven. If they are wrong, they simply have lived their lives striving to be good and moral persons. Not a bad goal, even though we do not always live up to our faith.

Atheism requires an overload of arrogance. Atheists simply want to do their thing without criticism from others or their consciences. Wait, how can they have consciences when they have no rules? Will apparently feels no discomfort because of his deviant sexual practices and wants others to feel free to be like him with no nagging discomfort.

Pitiful!

Bob_C
I commend you on not lumping acts of nastiness by certain groups of people with the entire group of said people! I agree with you whole heartedly on that issue. I know many athiests that are wonderful people. My question to them is why do you think your so kind and generous, as opposed to being a jerk and a thief? They just say its not their nature! I don't push em on it. But I do say to myself, that goodness comes from a good heart and soul. Good/Evil.
Heavenly Father/Prince of Darkness
Again, thats just my faith!

MikeH, I was referring to post at 9:53
That is all.

nutnfinr
That was as good as a post can get!

nutnfinr
It is called "Pascal's Wager." It is a brilliant piece of logic. A simple chart of pros and cons shows that the only logical thing to do is believe.

Believing in God or not
I have always believed in the supernatural and I believe that is what God is. There are both good and bad forces out there and I have a picture to prove it. My husband and I took a picture of one of the beautiful blue hot springs in Yellowstone National Park a couple years ago and what we got was not what we had expected. In the center of the hot water is the face of a demon and this pic was not fixed. My older brother and his wife went to the park 3 weeks after we did, took a pic of the same hot spring and their pic turned out much different than ours. We had not talked to my brother about ours before they went and we compared photos. Their photo has a dark cloud in the middle of the spring.

I have read the Bible and I feel the writers only allowed certain books to be put in which only agreed with their beliefs. There were more than the 4 deciples and some of their gosples should have also been put in the Bible.

I believe the gay lifestyle is wrong. If nature had intended for that way of life, she would not have made male and female of everything.

I should have also said...
The reason Christian kids get to college and are demolished is the fault of the adults in their lives as well as the church. Instead of teaching them through the years why Christianity is objectively true, we teach them stories, talk about feelings and use the word 'faith' the way the world does - as a blind leap into the unknown, against all through and reason. No wonder they get to college and their faith is destroyed!

We need to teach apologetics and history and teach them how to use reason and logic. These are the tools that can get them through.

Glenn Chatfield's "beliefs"
Glenn Chatfield writes "being must come from being." Where then, did God come from? Don't bother saying God doesn't require a cause because that contradicts your premise. The most damning indictment of any argument is that it's self-contradictory.

Your musings on "certainty" collapse upon examination. Do you doubt that 2+2 does not =17? Bob_C had a good point: under your doctrine (certainty requires omniscience), you've left yourself no grounds to doubt the Easter Bunny, the Hindu gods, or atheism. Reductio ad absurdum.

There is plenty of fossil evidence that lower life forms preceded more complex forms. There is no evidence of supernatural beings or supernatural causation. The absence of evidence does not = proof of the supernatural. Everywhere we look we see a natural universe, not supernatural entities.

Wrong that atheism claims to know there is no God. As stated previously, one can't prove a negative. Atheism need only observe that theism has not provided adequate proof of God's existence, or even its plausibility. The burden is always on the proponent.

Turek's book is a worthless compilation of unsubstantiated data, wild assertions, false dilemmas, and transparently ludicrous strawmen. Read a book on introductory logic to learn why such "evidence" wouldn't make the first cut in any reputable scientific or legal forum.

Obnoxious
Mike Adams is obnoxious to his enemies and so are Evangelicals.

That flies right in the face of Jesus commanding us to be fishers of men.

Mike passes right over WHY Evangelicals are more despised than Muslims.

The WHY is easy enough, Evangelicals are perceived as obnoxious, arrogant and hateful to outsiders.

Young people are not worried about death. The are very much worried about who their peers are.

One speech on one campus may get a few to visit a Church. Then they are going to go to that Church, meet a Reverend Jerry Falwell type, and turn around never to go back again.

Christianity is failing because Christians are failing. Jesus tells us you can't win by trying to convert people using the sword. The metaphorical sword is relying exclusively on fear and derision of sin. Christians need to provide HOPE and use love to convert people.

As long as Evangelicals are perceived as hating the sinner and the sin, they will be more despised than the Muslims and no college campus lecture for one day is going to be able to mask that.

The real problem isn't that the Devil is winning, but that the Christians are losing by not practicing what Jesus instructs, to be fishers of men.

Adams Language Explains a Lot
Adams unwittingly exemplifies one of the reasons CHristians evangelicals are held in such low repute.

His basic assumption is that not believing in his particular religion is "being stuck on stupid." At the same time, he cites data that shows the more educate done becomes, hte less likely one is to be a fundamentalist.

Christians are simply not going to have much success if the default position is that anyone who disagrees with them is stupid. And in nufinr (at 10:06) we have someone claiming atheism is arrogant.

But that's not the core of this. The fact is that Christian evangelicals are also Christian fundamentalists to a large degree, and as such they share a literal belief in the Bible. A belief in the literal truth of the Bible (or the Koran or the Torah or any other similar religious document) is unappealing to most rational people.

That's not a bad thing. That's a good thing.


Tacitus
Throwing around big words does not make one a logician.

And atheism cannot prove its own plausibility either.

AF Major
My post was tongue in cheek. I was just trying to see who I could rile this morning. I'm surprised it was you. You should know me better than that.

Only 5x?
Adams wrote: "Professors are five times more likely to be atheists than the general public".

Gee, I thought the number was more like 500.

Josh McDowell does this also
Thanks for reminding me of my own college faith experience in the mid-70's. Raised as a faithful, observant but somewhat cynical Roman Catholic, I had read C.S. Lewis in high school and began to realize the sound intellectual basis for faith. As a freshman at Pitt, the subtle and not-so-subtle secularity was just starting to get to me when the Campus Crusade for Christ brought Josh McDowell in for a series of great lectures on the Resurrection and other Christian beliefs which he defended with vibrant apologetics. He re-energized my faith and helped me stride confidently through the fog of faux-intellectual agnosticism which has so infused the college environment. Josh's book--Evidence That Demands a Verdict-is still on my shelf; and is often cited by Christian apologeticists today, and he continues his ministry. I'm happy to see someone else has taken up this important work as well.

re: Tacitus X writes:
"Wrong that atheism claims to know there is no God. As stated previously, one can't prove a negative. Atheism need only observe that theism has not provided adequate proof of God's existence, or even its plausibility. The burden is always on the proponent. "

Reminds me of the bumper sticker, "Atheism means I believe in one less God than you do."

The big leap of faith is not, as is often posited, believe in some creator. No, the big leap of faith is that the creator is, in fact, the one described by *your* religion.

Even among the various Christian denominations, God is not described as the same. It is rather glib to say that the "God" who some believe created the Earth 6,000 years ago is in fact the same "God" who lit the big bang and started a process billions of years ago that lead to where we are today. Yet there are Christians who believe both versions of creation lead to the same "God".

As the bumper sticker aptly points out, belief in some creator is not faith, belief that your particular religion describes this creator is.

To pegwitch2
Pegwitch writes, "I believe the gay lifestyle is wrong. If nature had intended for that way of life, she would not have made male and female of everything." Interesting comment, I have never heard of it before.......sarcasm intended.