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Monday, April 07, 2008
Mike Adams :: Townhall.com Columnist
The Prisoner
by Mike Adams
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Last weekend, three guys came over to my house to pick up some furniture and clothes to take to a local rescue mission. It’s one of those faith-based organizations helping homeless men and prisoners alike as they try to make the transition back into society. I called them because there is no faith-based program strong enough to make me think I can lift heavy furniture by myself. I think life after forty is great but sometimes my back disagrees.

After putting a heavy chair in the truck, one of the men turned to me and asked whether there was anything else that needed to be loaded up. “Yes” I replied, as I told him to get an ottoman from the sun room. The man walked up the steps to my front door and then suddenly stopped. Then he turned and asked whether I wanted to go in with him so I could watch him while he was in my house. I told him “No, just go ahead” and he quietly went inside.

It wasn’t so much what he said as the way he said it that got me thinking and eventually writing. How tough it must be to come in off the streets or to come home from a long stay in prison. No matter how hard you try, others will always be expecting you to slip up. Before long, you just assume that everyone is thinking the same thing.

I recall many years ago when my mother began writing to a prisoner who was doing time for armed robbery. She had been influenced greatly by the writings of Chuck Colson and decided to get involved in prison ministry. We eventually learned that the man she was writing had committed his crime to support a heroin addiction.

I have to admit that I was pretty excited when he was let out on parole and mother announced that he was coming to our house for dinner. I had never met an armed robber before. I hadn’t ever met a heroin addict either. I think I was even more excited than the time my mother invited two Auschwitz survivors to dinner.

My mother did more for the ex-prisoner than just cook him dinner. She filled up his car with gas and gave him some money to buy groceries. She considered it her Christian duty to give the man a fighting chance. As you can guess, the story has a sad twist to it -otherwise this would make for a very short column.

Before long, the calls began to come very late at night from the struggling ex-prisoner. It became apparent that life as a free man had allowed our friend to make some of the old mistakes that got him into prison in the first place. Before long, his girlfriend was involved in a very serious motorcycle accident. I was convinced they were caught up in a very dangerous lifestyle that could make Chris just another recidivism statistic.

Eventually, Chris married his girlfriend and he didn’t even invite my mother to the wedding. It was clear to me that he had fallen back into the same old crowd – drinking and using drugs but hopefully not robbing anyone to support a habit. He just could not allow my mother to see his friends and to see how he was living.

While all of this drama was unfolding I moved away to college to pursue a degree in psychology. Over the course of the next few years I would devolve from agnosticism to hardened atheism. I became a disciple of B.F. Skinner. Secular humanism became my only religion.

Some time after I began worshipping in the church of Skinner, I chastised my mother over the acts of kindness she had shown to Chris, his girlfriend, and their young daughter. I explained that giving him money for gas and groceries after he had shown some signs of returning to his old lifestyle was wrong. I told her she was reinforcing antisocial behavior. I think I actually told her she was behaving immorally by doing so.

I don’t know what ever happened to Chris. I don’t know whether he ever committed another robbery. I don’t know whether he got back on heroin. I don’t know whether his marriage lasted or whether he’s even alive.

But last year I did learn something quite interesting. The church my mother attended back then – University Baptist Church (UBC) in Clear Lake City, Texas – started a college fund for Chris’ daughter. She joined the military and served her country after finishing high school. Then she took the money the church offered her and she got a college education.

UBC did a great thing by giving that young girl a chance to make it out of the very bad circumstances into which she was born. But they did more than give her an education. They’re giving everyone reading this column an education, too.

It is so easy for conservatives to say that we need more prisons to deal with the problem of crime and recidivism. It is not nearly as easy for us to let a prisoner into our lives or even into our homes. But we owe it to the next generation to do the hard things Jesus taught us to do. Things they don’t teach our children in school.

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About The Author
Mike Adams is a criminology professor at the University of North Carolina Wilmington and author of Feminists Say the Darndest Things: A Politically Incorrect Professor Confronts "Womyn" On Campus.
 
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Amen
Thank you for this article, Mike

You raise some very important points in this article, namely that we should not be too quick to judge other people. There's often much more beneath the surface then we guessed or were aware of.

Secondly, even if someone is a scoundrel, the power of God's love is such that anyone can be transformed. We should be willing to do our part to reach everyone, and that is often by letting God's love work through us.

Simple words, not always easy to accomplish in reality, but vital for us to strive for.

Michael
WHY do you "chastise" your mother for her acts of kindness only after you become a "hardened atheist"? It's clear you have this invisible moral barometer where "good christian" is on one side of the moral spectrum & "atheist" is on the other.

Is it impossible for you to even conceive of a responsible, generous, morally sound atheist? You play the same game with homosexuals. You immediately push them to one side of your moral spectrum, you label them for natural impulses (yes, it IS natural), you transfer onto all atheists & gay persons YOUR moral depravity that YOU felt at your spiritual bottom. Transference.

Mike, honestly, it's a tired, mendacious game. In 2008 people should know better. Homosexuals & atheists (or both) can be every bit as spiritual and good as christians & jews and muslims can be. I know you believe in a divine Jesus & a personal God, but simply because you believe this doesn't make it so. The kindness your mother extended to the ex-con is the kindness you should extend to gays & atheists. Like MLK said, you judge a man be the content of his character, & there is no reason to believe that average, ordinary atheists & homosexuals have less good character, less compassion, less humanity than the average christian.

Yet, I'm certain in the coming weeks you will continue your game-play of extrapolating the idea of the radical homosexual, the militant homosexual & presenting this flagrant model as your sole model, your solitary example, of gay moral character. It's this ungenerous short-sightedness & (moral) vindictiveness that subjegates you to third-rate writer status.

Will
1- There was absolutely no mention of homosexuals in this article. You simply must find something else to talk about once in a while.
2- I'm not sure other atheists appreciate being lumped together into a group with you. Speak for yourself. Actually, I'd prefer you to not speak at all, but it's your right to make a fool of yourself, so go right ahead.

Great article, Mike!

Will you ever learn?
There are many loudmouth militant homosexual activist groups, aided and abetted by the PC "speech code" crowd at campuses nationwide as well as many mainstream media outlets, who aim to silence any critic of the "gay" lifestyle - constitutional freedom of speech rights be damned.

Mike skewers those groups for their hypocrisy and narrow-mindedness, and takes a boatload of heat in the bargain. He could just keep his mouth shut, get along / go along, and enjoy his cushy professor job like most of the small but not insignificant percentage of his colleagues who happen to agree with his point of view. I'm sure there are many days where he'd like nothing better than to be left alone - like most of us.

Thanks goodness Mike is willing to stand up to the bullies who attempt to silence all criticism.

Will you really need help
Reading your comments make me believe that the medical society had it right prior to the 80's. Namely, homosexual behavior is deviant, and a mental illness. Maybe you should try praying to God for a little clarity, eh? I'll pray for you.

Oh Will
Please gather all the stats you can find about Gay and Atheist groups that are going abroad to help the oppressed and poor, and chronicle please the amounts of financial aid they are giving.
If you please, don't include tax dollars in the total, because that is not money or actions from the heart.
We'll believe you when an atheistic organization arises with the same scope as World Vision, for example. Your examples are hypothetical and wishful, but not actually supportable by evidence.

Lastly, just because it's 2008, the amount of people "knowing better" rings particularly vacuous. Precisely what does this ill defined, but precocious group "know?"

Will, do you have a program
On your PC that spits these responses out?

"Blah blah blah homosexuality blah blah blah blah 21st century blah blah blah you're mean blah blah blah gays are people too blah blah blah."

Why Do You all Bother?
It does not take long to realize which posters here are deranged and deserve to be ignored. Reasoning with the deranged is a waste of time. Scroll past them and make better use of the limited time God has given you.

Mike's mom is lucky....
I've heard of at least a couple of similar stories of generosity and caring that have backfired, sometimes fatally.
It's good to learn that this one had a favorable outcome, at no physical expense to Mike's mom.

Give a man a fish.....

Excellent article!
Kudos to your mother!

No telling what God will do with a seed, but we still have to be the ones to plant it.

Trulib
Agreed. There are a number of posters (we all know who they are) who apparently have nothing better to do than stir up controversy. They make statements that have nothing to do at all with the subject being discussed.

The best thing we could do is ignore them and not let them succeed in derailing the discussion.

I, for one, will no longer respond to anyone that does not make a rational contribution to the discussion. It is indeed a waste of time, and does nothing more to frustrate us, because there really is nothing we can do that will change the minds of such people or even get them to desist.

So why mess with them. Let the jackasses bray! Why get upset over them? They are going to continue to bray no matter what we do, so let them bray and we'll continue on with what we do, with no mention of them. Don't empower them. The best way to beat them is not to give them the attention they crave so greatly.

What's next, Mike Adams for Obama?
Mr Adams: Did your mother have a gun in her house and did she know how to use it when the armed robber visited?

Or did she rely entirely on her faith in God to protect her and you from what could have been serious harm?

Were any of your expensive weapons laying around the house as the "guys" traipsed through your house moving furniture with you siting on the front porch?

And if your faith in God and the integrity of ex-fellons is that strong, your gun collection and expertise therewith should not be adduced as protection against the gays who threaten you with harm, should they?

With this obama-esque chrsitian compassion following your earlier attack on Ann Coulter you seem to have lost your conservative principles, which provided the mica chips in your writing.

The barrier between your residual Skinner and your compassionate christianity has broken down, and the two have mixed into a soup akin to Liberation Theology - it won't be long now before you urge your readers to give to the poor and the meek, the uninsured, the child left behind.

When you subordinate your natural writing talent to some cause you become a hack and no more.

Pity.

This is the first time I've read all the
way through one of Adams' columns, but I'm not suite sure what some of it meant. Did the original convict, whom was taken in, have some recidivist issues and fall back into crime? this is suggested but never fully stated. did his dughter just show up later, out of the blue, in hopes of getting help with her scholarship?

In any case, I like the story because unlike the others on TH it is not a simplistic movie-of-the-week. Endings aren't tidy, or satsfying, especially in the ways they are supposed to be; (the prisoner (Henry Fonda) finds God, a beautful, Christian and loving wife, (Linda Darnell) has ethno-perfect children, builds a house with a picket fence and bears a son who will raise a yearling on their ranch.

This is the kind of story I relate to because, like real life, it's ending is inconclusive, unclear, and asks more questions than it answers.

It also is a testament to the truth that when we give, it should be without expectation or personal self-aggrandizement. This, of course, is predicated on the asumption that Adams didn't leave anything out.


MLK
Will wrote in his post above: "Like MLK said, you judge a man be the content of his character..." etc.

That's empty rhetoric.

I don't care any more what the character of a man is than what color his skin is. All I have the right and the ability to judge is a man's deeds.

Inviting convicts to roam unsupervised through his house is as foolish as inviting an armed robber to dine with you and your kids.





Will has raised some important
considerations, however, and just once I would like to see TH posters treat differing opinions with respect.

Will has introduced some provacative and solid points, ones that shouldn't be dismissed so easily. It's true that homosexualtiy was not mentioned in ths artical but let's face it, we all know about Adams' history with homosexual issues -- it isn't happening in a vacuum, either.

Frankly, I'm wondering what the point of this story was and why Adams chose to tell it. Is it about charity? Is it about God? Is it about real life? Is Charity nothing more than a way of buying a man's soul?


It's about being a Christian
The actions that Professor Adams's mother took--getting personally involved in the life of a person who society has essentially written off--is the epitome of what it means to be a follower of Jesus. I salute her bravery and caring. Great story, and one that should challenge all of us to think about how we, personally, engage with 'the least of these' among us.

Content on character
Actually, MLK's dream was that one day, his children would be judged by the content of their character rather than the color of their skin.

Sadly, conniving thugs such as Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton pay lip service to King, but have turned his dream into a nightmare. And made right much money doing it. In their world, the color of one's skin takes precedence. When it comes to civil rights, they are apostates.

But I have faith because I have felt God's hand at work in my life and some things simply go beyond coincidence. The mention of Chris' daughter and her story just substantiates that God works in strange and mysterious ways, His wonders to perform.

I can't help but wonder what Chris, fallen back as he may have been, told his daughter about the help he received from Adams' mother. As a teacher, I would ask my classes if they would like to see THEIR children on drugs, pregnant at 13, etc. I always got a resounding "NO!"

It would seem that Chris got something right somewhere along the way for his daughter to turn out so different from her father.

A tip from a teacher: remember that one thing differs "from" another. Different "than" is simply bad grammar...and sadly we get it from too many pro writers! And spellcheck is not a proofreader as long as the wrong word is spelled correctly, eg, "now" and "not," which totally changes what you had intended to communicate.

Bandu
You miss the meaning of what it means to be a christian.

Adams is writing about one of the central ideas of what a christian life should be. Of course we should help, as you say, "the poor and the meek, the child left behing, not necessarily the uninsured, but those needing help."

Bandu, that sentiment does not make one a lib. I am a staunch conservative, and I fully believe, like I think Adams does, that we should help those who are less fortunate than ourselves. What makes the difference between a liberal and a conservative is not the idea that we should help others. The difference is that liberals think the government should do the helping, and conservatives like me (and Adams) feel that individuals and private charities should do the helping. It should be voluntary on the part of the individual and on the part of groups. Money should not be forcefully taken from us to help others.

Morals
Will, why do you always have to bring in homosexuality???? You are fixated on that deviant behavior as an identity!

Will, what do you base your morals on? You chastise Mike and chastise Christians for our moral stands on the homosexual and other issues, but you have nothing to base your morals on. Our morals stands are base on the moral law given by the moral Lawgiver and it is He who says homosexual behavior is wrong. For you to make any moral judgment is laughable. Your morals are based on your own opinions only. You have no moral basis as an atheist except your own beliefs. So what makes your beliefs better than mine? Think about it, Will!

Glenn

Will, will you please go back....
into the closet or rock you crawled out from. Where does the article mention homosexuality. It is people like you, a goose stepping Homo Nazi, that make heterosexual people so intolerant to your cause. Can you not see how your ranting and raving does nothing for the gay agenda and in fact hurts it greatly. You really need to stop watching reruns of Will & Grace, dressing up like Liza Minelli, listening to Cher CD's and get a clue.

When working in a prison ministry
those who coordinate such ministries tell volunteers DO NOT let the prisoner know where you live. DO NOT give the prisoner your home phone number. I worked in a prison ministry, and this was the first and most important rule. Inviting someone like that into your home more often than not stirs up envy not gratitude.

This turned out okay for your mother but could have had tragic consequences. Yes, we are under God's grace, but bad things happen to good people all the time, and God expects us to use wisdom.

About a year ago, my family gave some used furniture to a woman we knew who was struggling. She secured the help of a man she knew to move the items from our garage. (We did not know the man, and apparently she didn't know him very well either). Five nights later, our garage was broken into and an expensive bicycle was stolen. I’m certain it was the man who helped move the furniture. Our garage has no windows, so there was no reason a burglar would randomly pick our garage out of all the others on our block unless it was known what was inside.

I'm just very thankful we never allowed the man in our house or he might have decided to invade our home.

response to Tru
Unfortunately, Will is a one-trick pony. Attempts have been made in the past to engage him in discussion. Sometimes a couple of good thoughts will emerge, but more often a stream of venom in the form of "you are haters and you can't see past your hate, you haters" is the result (usually based around views and experiences of homosexuality: regardless of what the topic under discussion is). This, to me, defines a troll on the message boards: one who does not intend to further the discussion, but only to disrupt the others from discussing.

I don't talk to trolls (after the first several times that I've seen them and made attempts to talk, in which they have a chance to show me their nature), and I urge others to do the same.

We Need More Prisons
The purpose of prisons is to protect the rest of us and give justice to the prisoners' victims. Daughters of murder victims are out there, too.

Curtal Friar/Bandu
"... What makes the difference between a liberal and a conservative is not the idea that we should help others. The difference is that liberals think the government should do the helping, and conservatives like me (and Adams) feel that individuals and private charities should do the helping."

What conservatives call "helping others", we moderates and liberals call our civic duty. What you call "helping others" often is helping yourselves. The WWII GI bill was a massive "helping others" program that rocketed this country to the heights of sciencific, economic and medical achievement. Isn't it interesting that since we stopped that and similar programs the US has lost clear global leadership in all those areas.

"It should be voluntary on the part of the individual and on the part of groups. Money should not be forcefully taken from us to help others. "

Ahh now that you got "yours" you want to remove help for anyone else? Or is it that you and yours never got any and darn sure don't want anyone else to? I would like to know.

Mike's mom
Mike's mom knew she was giving Chris a better chance by helping. Did Chris ever become a Christian? Turning your own life around without the guidance of the Holy Spirit living within is nearly impossible.Anyway Why bother improving your life if it doesn't get you anywhere afterwards? Jesus hung around with people like Chris. So glad to here his daughter is doing well. If her parents are still alive perhaps she will make a difference in theirs. CHarity is a dangerous thing. It must always be handled with care and prayer.

Mike, BF Skinner are you kidding me. Common Sense?
THe funny thing is your mom raised you well and in the Faith but you were ready to turn your back on everything she stood for yet Chris's daughter who I doubt had a chance in life turned to the church.

Hal
What is wrong with individuals and private charities doing the helping, as opposed to government? You may call it civic duty or moral responsibility or whatever, but it is still voluntary, and you or anyone else must answer to their own conscience as far as what you give and when. Charitable giving that is compulsory is not charity, it's robbery (or at the least, usury).
Your efforts to make this a class warfare issue with your post will be ignored.
BTW, the GI Bill was replaced by the Montgomery GI Bill in the mid 80s, and AFAIK is still in effect. Some of our veterans here can correct me if I'm mistaken.

ivory1029
You waste your time trying to reason with Hal D.

Notice how he claims to be a "moderate" instead of a "liberal". In my experience, those that do so realize that the "liberal" label has become a negative and fear being lumped in with a class of kooks.

Pretty soon, old Hal's BDS will rear its ugly head, and we'll get a dose of his trademark "LMAO®".

my 2 cents
Mike;

Good piece. Ignore all the criticism.

ivory1029
"What is wrong with individuals and private charities doing the helping, as opposed to government?"

Nothing and I am actually on the board of a faith based group involved with economic development. But to relay solely on diconnected "charities" with little coordination, steady funding or oversight wastes tremendoud resources and allows "free riders" like so many conservatives have become

"...Charitable giving that is compulsory is not charity, it's robbery (or at the least, usury)."

No actually it is called community investment no different than building a road....

"Your efforts to make this a class warfare issue with your post will be ignored."

It is not at all about class warfare it is about building a stronger and better America. The course you folks advocate is a highway straight to third world status

"BTW, the GI Bill was replaced by the Montgomery GI Bill in the mid 80s, and AFAIK is still in effect. Some of our veterans here can correct me if I'm mistaken. "

I am a veteran and the Montgomery GI bill is nothing close to the WWII GI Bill. Senator Webb is actually proposing a new GI Bill but I suspect, like so many other bills "really" supporting veterans, the conservatives will fight it

Primus54/ivory1029
"...Notice how he claims to be a "moderate" instead of a "liberal". In my experience, those that do so realize that the "liberal" label has become a negative and fear being lumped in with a class of kooks."

Actually not true. You conservatives (now considered a very nasty term by most Americans)call me a liberal and then the liberals (a word actually being rehabilitated thanks to the collapse of the conservatives) call me conservative. Not sure what that makes me but there I am

"Pretty soon, old Hal's BDS will rear its ugly head, and we'll get a dose of his trademark "LMAO®". "

LMAO That BDS term seems to be your rationale for not thinking?

Hal
Your "GI Bill" response to every damn criticism of liberal policies is just as weak as Will's "homo-bashers" post on every article.

"Sure, we libs have made thousands upon thousands of gross political mistakes, but what about the GI Bill?!?"

Oh, by the way, the GI Bill was written, proposed, and pushed through Congress by the leader of the American Legion, Warren Atherton....A REPUBLICAN. Now go away.

The Prisoner
Your article points out a crying need in society, that of actually seeing people's hearts changed. The church has done a miserable job of considering others above themselves. Half way ministries seldom get much support. Rather, we glory in our building programs and our anointed meetings where people just get "goose bumps."

If the church is to be considered relevant, it must support ministries that help people to build solid foundations in their lives, through the Lord.

Icedog
"Your "GI Bill" response to every damn criticism of liberal policies is just as weak as Will's "homo-bashers" post on every article."

Refute it then Icedog it was a massive welfare program which has paid for itself many times over.

"Sure, we libs have made thousands upon thousands of gross political mistakes, but what about the GI Bill?!?"

Really? we never have tried something that massive the closest was LBJ when then couldn't do it because of the Vietnam War. Why not address the issue?

"Oh, by the way, the GI Bill was written, proposed, and pushed through Congress by the leader of the American Legion, Warren Atherton....A REPUBLICAN. Now go away. "

I could careless if it was written by Bush the torturer. It worked and worked extremely well. See your comment is exactly why conservatism failed - it was interested in some kind of rightwing "purity" rather than accomplishing the task at hand.

Icedog
"Oh, by the way, the GI Bill was written, proposed, and pushed through Congress by the leader of the American Legion, Warren Atherton....A REPUBLICAN. Now go away. "

I suspect he would be called a RINO now if were here as would Ronnie by the way - they would not be "pure" enough

just an aside
I too have my degree in psychology. I too found B.F. Skinner to be one of the best psychologists around in that positive and negative reinforcement work wonders. I would never call myself a disciple of anyone but Jesus. I don't see how using techniques in life developed by a "man" can have anything to do with my faith and relationship to God. It is sad that Mike allowed his studies to interfere with his faith--when his faith could have sustained his studies and help him realize what to keep and what to discard. I think that a strong "true" faith may have been missing from the start--because God uses all things to good if we listen to Him and follow Him. Thank God that his mom at least planted seeds of faith in him.

Hal Donahue
"The WWII GI bill was a massive "helping others" program that rocketed this country to the heights of sciencific, economic and medical achievement. Isn't it interesting that since we stopped that and similar programs the US has lost clear global leadership in all those areas."

For someone who claims to have been in the service, you sure blew it with this slip-up.

ivory1029 has it right. The GI Bill was replaced with the Montgomery GI Bill.

Prisoner Ministry
I hope you have a lot more furniture your willing to part with because prisons all over the country are letting out all sorts of questionable characters so they can save a buck or two. Maybe you should give up secular humanisim for islam; because thats what all those convicts are turning to before they are released. I think we should permanently remove the dregs of society sitting on death row to open up space in our overcrowded prison system instead of putting convicts back on the streets before they have served their sentences. The death penalty is not effective as a deterrant because it is not used to its fullest potential. The inability of our justice system to punish offenders only breeds more lawlessness. Your mother's church should not have had to fund a convict's daughter's college education because he should have been sterilized in prison so he couldn't breed. We don't live in a feudal system; anyone can get an education and make something of themselves in our country, and we should not coddle those who do not conform.

Well, I see,
that Hal Doofus is already here, screwing up the thread as usual.

Clay
See my 9:26 posting

Curtal Friar & TruLib
Agreed on ignoring the posters just trying to fill their empty lives by trying to aggravate others into the same misery they are living. "Sophie" is the biggest offender. He/she obviously posts to stick verbal thumbs in the eyes of others and to ammuse him/herself with how clever he/she is. I believe in consideration of differing opinions, but that is not what Sophie offers. Every post from Sophie should go unread and flagged as offensive.

As for Will, I truly feel sorry for him. His whole life revolves around his sexuality. Pathetic, really. I have a lesbian sister who is one of my best friends. A great, successful person who just happens to be a lesbian. She would shake her head in sympathy for the twisted world Will is living in.

Hal
You are extremely confused....conservatives don't view the GI Bill as a "massive welfare program". We actually believe strongly in the whole "teach a man to fish philosophy."
It is the countless liberal programs of "entitlements" and promised hand-outs (at our expense) that we view as "welfare". It is your philosophy of "take someone else's fish and give it to another (forever)" that we view as "welfare".

....and just how in the hell do you expect to convince us that a benefit earned through service to your country should be viewed as a "welfare program"?!? ....a desperate stretch, even for you.



Stoutbrewer
"....Maybe you should give up secular humanisim for islam; because thats what all those convicts are turning to before they are released. I think we should permanently remove the dregs of society sitting on death row to open up space in our .....our country, and we should not coddle those who do not conform."

Spoken like a true member of the member of the religious right thank you for making their beliefs so crystal clear

Icedog writes:
Hal
You are extremely confused....conservatives don't view the GI Bill as a "massive welfare program". We actually believe strongly in the whole "teach a man to fish philosophy."
It is the countless liberal programs of "entitlements" and promised hand-outs (at our expense) that we view as "welfare". It is your philosophy of "take someone else's fish and give it to another (forever)" that we view as "welfare".

....and just how in the hell do you expect to convince us that a benefit earned through service to your country should be viewed as a "welfare program"?!? ....a desperate stretch, even for you.

Icedog: You are expecting the impossible, logic and a straight answer from a moonbat.

Icedog
"...It is the countless liberal programs of "entitlements" and promised hand-outs (at our expense) that we view as "welfare"."

To the best of my knowledge no one wants that expect an extremely small minority and the tales uf unearned largess are certainly more appropriate for business and agriculture that the "welfare" mom.

"It is your philosophy of "take someone else's fish and give it to another (forever)" that we view as "welfare"."

read above

"....and just how in the hell do you expect to convince us that a benefit earned through service to your country should be viewed as a "welfare program"?!? ....a desperate stretch, even for you. "

Literally tens of thousands of returning soldiers would have been thrown on the streets without homes and jobs following WWII. The challenge was how to make Lemonaide (win/win for the country) from lemons (no jobs and slowing economy). It worked brillently. I use the word welfare because that is the term that you folks use for programs like this because it was a massive handout. The term I use is investment.

Then you will agree with me that a massive spending program is necessary to rebuild this country and education programs can be paid for by service to country?

Hal Doofus Keeps On Raving:
Then you will agree with me that a massive spending program is necessary to rebuild this country and education programs can be paid for by service to country?

Doofus: How much more money can we pour into education? D.C. spends the most money per student and gets the worst return in the nation.

oh, can I get in on this?
I’m sure I can make a wise guy comment:

That’s not a bad story. I like true stories of redemption. It also gives insight to Adams’ thinking. He actually thought secular humanism was a religion and worshiped a psychologist. Now of course, he is a fervent Christian and worships at an independent church. The point is that back then he probably thought he was right, just as surely as he thinks he is now. One of my criticisms of Adams is that considering his past, he should display a little more understanding to others or at least be circumspect about human nature.

Lumberjack7392
"...How much more money can we pour into education? D.C. spends the most money per student and gets the worst return in the nation. "

Well golly gee guess what? It requires management, oversight and responsibility. You know if you are worried about food and housing you are unlikely to learn real well and on and on. That is why the WWII GI bill was truly exceptional. It paid for housing, books, tuition and even spending money.

Hal Doofus Keeps On Raving:
Well golly gee guess what? It requires management, oversight and responsibility. You know if you are worried about food and housing you are unlikely to learn real well and on and on. That is why the WWII GI bill was truly exceptional. It paid for housing, books, tuition and even spending money.

And politicians, and bureaucrats can manage, oversee, and show responsibility. Maybe if you'd get off you duff, and go volunteer in an inner city school, you might learn a little about the problems.

Lumberjack7392
"...And politicians, and bureaucrats can manage, oversee, and show responsibility."

Well the certainly have WWII, WWII GI BIll, space race, Cold War, etc. Incompetence on the scale of the Bush Regime has seldom been seen in our history thankfully. You say do nothing? That is literally what got us in this mess isn't it?

" Maybe if you'd get off you duff, and go volunteer in an inner city school, you might learn a little about the problems. "

I don't have time to volunteer there also but others I trust do and have. What answers do you have? Your conservative regime only made the problem worse - now you want to surrender? You know someone, I think Horace Mann, once said that war was a cowardly escape from the problems of peace. I wonder if that is why conservatives embrace wars especially if they can't go?

Will
While there are posters on TH that are against homosexuality morally, personally I am not. I think (hope?) I speak for a large and growing population when I say: I don't care that you're gay. Couldn't care less. I don't think about it for one second.

So quit injecting your homosexuality into every issue. I bet Adams could write an article about Cuba, maybe even global warming, and you'd find some way to bring up homosexuality. Captain Conservative had it right: don't you realize that by constantly bringing it up, you're just pushing people away that might otherwise just ignore you and let you live your life the way you want to live it?

Hal Doofus Keeps On Raving:
I don't have time to volunteer there also but others I trust do and have. What answers do you have? Your conservative regime only made the problem worse - now you want to surrender? You know someone, I think Horace Mann, once said that war was a cowardly escape from the problems of peace. I wonder if that is why conservatives embrace wars especially if they can't go?

1st Doofus: I served my time in the military. It only cost me 65% of my hearing in my left ear, a wrecked knee and shoulder, and a case of hypertension. So STFU about that.

You are too busy doing what? Trying to get another Dem who sees the government as the solution to all the nation's problems elected. I suspect that you truly believe the average American is too stupid to think for him/herself, and to try to solve the nation's problems w/o gov't assistance.

Hal
Baltimore taxpayers spend $13,000 per year, per student and have produced a dismal 34% graduation rate.

Private schools produce a more than 200% higher graduation rate at less than 25% of the cost.

More taxes is not the answer.

http://www.schoolchoiceinfo.org

Secular humanism
Don't understand the point of the article, but to correct one outstanding error, secular humanism is not a religion. It's the opposite.

Lumberjack7392
"...I served my time in the military. It only cost me 65% of my hearing in my left ear, a wrecked knee and shoulder, and a case of hypertension. So STFU about that."

About what???? Ahhh so you are getting a government disability check? I don't know why you even mentioned this?

"You are too busy doing what? Trying to get another Dem who sees the government as the solution to all the nation's problems elected."

Well as I said I am on several not for profit boards including one religious one and I do work very hard to get veterans elected who know the military and the international situation

" I suspect that you truly believe the average American is too stupid to think for him/herself, and to try to solve the nation's problems w/o gov't assistance. "

Oh no I don't but I do think most American people do know enough to understand that working together produces better results than working alone in most cases. I know of few who advocate government "assistance" but many who advocate government investment

Icedog
"Private schools produce a more than 200% higher graduation rate at less than 25% of the cost."

and they cherry pick the students and many teach below standards or fairy tal;es like intelligent design. I said the system is broke and we need to fix it. I have no problem with government funding of private schools as long as standards are kept and religion is out - we don't need madrases here do we

"More taxes is not the answer. "

Give me an answer and I will tell you if more taxes are needed. By example look what you folks did with Iraq, ran up bills, used up equipment and hollowed out the military. Which answer do you like best smaller military or higher taxes?

everyone knows that
Adams has set himself up as the morality gay police. But, it's a role he obviously cherishes, and it seems to give meaning to his life.

Unfortunately, It only makes conservatives look more isolated, odd, shriveled, and pathetic.

No, I didn't get banned! Changed my

screen name to make sir aslan happy... :-) at least for a day or so.

So, here's an idea. How about the leftists let the govt. take their "charitable" giving out of their paychecks, and distribute it....

And those of us who would rather do our charitable giving on our own, do just that?

I know it's a shock to the leftists, but Conservatives DONATE, ON THEIR OWN far more money than do the demos.



Hal
There is a big difference between the government subsidizing those who have served the country and the government giving handouts to those who have done nothing - quite literally.

Hal Doofus Keeps On Raving:
Well as I said I am on several not for profit boards including one religious one and I do work very hard to get veterans elected who know the military and the international situation

Ay you and the Democratic Party see the military (losers, killers, poorly educated, from poverty, and sheep) see the military, and international situation (cut and run)

Oh no I don't but I do think most American people do know enough to understand that working together produces better results than working alone in most cases. I know of few who advocate government "assistance" but many who advocate government investment


Oh, but you do. You have not ever demonstrated that you believe that people can solve their own problems.

BTW, I do NOT get a disability check.

However,
I didn't see any gays in this story, he must have left that part out by accident.

I'm not sure what the point is, though. The guy his mother helped seems to be the poster child for those people who conservatives like to condemn as "making bad choices" -- and are undeserving of help.

So, I ask again, what's the point? Is Adams saying that only conservatives go to church and take up collections for people? Really?


tru
Read the last paragraph. He's saying that despite the fact that his mom's efforts were unsuccessful, we have to do the hard stuff. It's easier to just say "put them in jail" than it is to take them into your own home and try to help them. I think his point is that you don't give up on people, and that Christians especially should be more giving and helpful to their fellow man.

He's not saying that only conservatives do it. He's just saying that if someone's going to call himself a Christian, he should be more actively involved in helping others than many people are.

False Arnston
"Adams has set himself up as the morality gay police". I see reading comprehension isn't your strong suit. Does he mention homosexuality in this article? Maybe you just inferred it because he was talking about a guy who had been in prison, but careful reading shows no mention of the topic.

But Mike Adams could write about deforestation in the Amazon and you and Will would relate it to being gay, somehow.

AZPhil writes:
False Arnston
"Adams has set himself up as the morality gay police". I see reading comprehension isn't your strong suit. Does he mention homosexuality in this article? Maybe you just inferred it because he was talking about a guy who had been in prison, but careful reading shows no mention of the topic.

But Mike Adams could write about deforestation in the Amazon and you and Will would relate it to being gay, somehow.

When it comes to gays and gay rights tru really fits Churchill's description of a fanatic, "Someone who will not change his mind or the subject."

Hal
"... What makes the difference between a liberal and a conservative is not the idea that we should help others. The difference is that liberals think the government should do the helping, and conservatives like me (and Adams) feel that individuals and private charities should do the helping."

It's very important who does the giving.
When government gets into the charity business it makes it a business. It develops a bureaucracy which then must be served and must perpetuate itself.

The goal of a private or religious charity is to help people enough to get them by and teach them to become independent of charity.

The goal of a bureaucratic charity is to develop and expand a client base. The budget of a bureaucracy must rise each year, therefore the "need" for the bureaucracy must rise each year. Rather than benefiting from a bureaucratic charity the "needy" must become prisoners of the bureaucracy. Any impulse to become independent is actively discouraged by bureaucratic charity.

For these reasons private and religious charities are always preferable to government welfare.

On the GI Bill. It's hard to consider that charity since it was only granted to those who performed a particular service. It was a veterans' benefit, not a charity. It still is a veterans benefit, part of the compensation package for those who choose to serve.

Simple truth
You are absolutely right! And that is the greatest challenge to those who claim that they are Christians. The question is "do we obey His commandments out of love in our hearts for HIM"?

Mrs. Adams' efforts weren't totally

unsuccessful!!!

"Chris’ daughter.... joined the military and served her country after finishing high school. Then she took the money the church offered her and she got a college education."

So, maybe we don't know what happened to Chris, but somehow, Mrs. Adams had faith that if she did "the right thing" God would handle the rest.

And clearly He did.



Hal "LMAO" Donahue writes:
in response to my 9:08:

At 9:32 AM:

"LMAO That BDS term seems to be your rationale for not thinking?"

And then it took only 9 more minutes for old Hal to write:

"I could careless (sic) if it was written by Bush the torturer."


"Bush the torturer"???

Thanks for proving my point, Hal!

"LMAO®"

Primus54 writes:
Hal "LMAO" Donahue writes:
in response to my 9:08:

At 9:32 AM:

"LMAO That BDS term seems to be your rationale for not thinking?"

And then it took only 9 more minutes for old Hal to write:

"I could careless (sic) if it was written by Bush the torturer."


"Bush the torturer"???

Thanks for proving my point, Hal!

"LMAO®"

Primus: There is a a form of shizophrenia called hebrephrenia, which has as its main symptoms diorganized fragmented silliness , repeating the same silly thoughts or phraese or words, and obstinancy of thought. I'd say that that description fits Hal Doofus to a T.

Primus54: BDS syndrome? We're hoping

that as soon as they come out with a vaccine for BDS, the doofus will sign up for the clinical trials.

I also understand that they're working on a "LMAO" vaccine, so maybe he'll sign up for those clinical trials as well.

One can only hope! :-)


Adults: don't use LMAO or LOL
Personally, I take a LMAO-Inhibitor. Ask your doctor about possible side effects.

right is its own defense writes:
Adults: don't use LMAO or LOL
Personally, I take a LMAO-Inhibitor. Ask your doctor about possible side effects.

Who ever said that Hal Doofus acted in an adult manner?

right is its own defense
How about ROFL, or the even more insidious ROFLMAO?

AZ Phil
"I see reading comprehension isn't your strong suit."

I see it isn't yours, either. Here's a line from my following post:

Sorry, here's the line:
"However,
I didn't see any gays in this story, he must have left that part out by accident."

Maybe you just need to get your prescription changed.


clarification
tru arnston = deathstar? same person, twice the blather?

I use "LOL" when I really mean to LAUGH

at the post....

And, when I want to make sure it's clear that I'm being facetious...







deathstar writes:
Sorry, here's the line:
"However,
I didn't see any gays in this story, he must have left that part out by accident."

Maybe you just need to get your prescription changed.

Maybe you need to realize not every column by Dr. Adams is going to mention gays, gay rights, or the GLBT center an UNCW. Not every issue relatesback to them.

Deathstar
Sorry; it's hard to keep up with two names. And I posted mine befroe I saw your "retraction".

Anne
I'll give you a pass on LOL. You're right -- sometimes it helps to emphasize one's sarcasm, since the written medium makes that difficult at times. But if you've hit puberty, you shouldn't be using LMAO.

Lumberjack
"Maybe you need to realize not every column by Dr. Adams is going to mention gays, gay rights, or the GLBT center an UNCW. Not every issue relatesback to them."

Gosh, you could have fooled me!

deathstar
Clever retort.

right... that "L..." NEVER!

Dumbest thing I've seen! But then, look who uses it all the time... :-)



Undeserving of help?
tru writes:

The guy his mother helped seems to be the poster child for those people who conservatives like to condemn as "making bad choices" -- and are undeserving of help.

I have never met, read about, or even heard of a conservative who judged a man undeserving of any help. Even people who have thrown away their own lives and sit on death row or in prison for life can redeem their souls and deserve the spiritual help they seek. "Seek and you shall find" doesn't mean "Look about and someone shall give unto you." Limited help resources go those who work to help themselves. These sayings are not meaningless aphorisms, but are recognition of universal truths. Ignore them and you may as well cast your pearls before swine.

right is its own defense
Thank you for 2 things in your 10:57 post. First, I agree, most of us don't care if someone is homosexual. Get the chip ooff your shoulder, Will. Also, thanks for using the phrase, "couldn't care less" properly. If someone "could care less," it means they do care somewhat-exactly what the speaker is NOT trying to convey. How can this phrase be so universally misused?

Cookie
That's one of my pet peeves! Glad to see I'm not the only one annoyed by that.

oneeye/
"...It's very important who does the giving.
When government gets into the charity business it makes it a business. It develops a bureaucracy which then must be served and must perpetuate itself."

See I guess this is a conservative view that they think the government doesn't work for them but actually controls them. The moderate/liberal view is if it doesn't work fix it or end it.

"The goal of a private or religious charity is to help people enough to get them by and teach them to become independent of charity."

In my experience more than a few do not act that way. Some religious charities are little more than marketing arms for the religion and some private charities are no different

"The goal of a bureaucratic charity is to develop and expand a client base.....Any impulse to become independent is actively discouraged by bureaucratic charity."

All that is simple nonsense must I remind you the military is a government bureauocracy? Many government bureaucrats have amazed me with their dedication and thrift

"For these reasons private and religious charities are always preferable to government welfare."

I disagree the ineffectiveness and lack of direction alone are legendary

"On the GI Bill. It's hard to consider that charity since it was only granted to those who performed a particular service. "

It was a bonus and it was a deliberate effort to stop that most dangerous thing - unemployed and indigent ex military

"It was a veterans' benefit, not a charity. It still is a veterans benefit, part of the compensation package for those who choose to serve. "

Not quite so easy. I didn't say it was charity I said using conservative language that it was a welfare program and socialist. It was one of the most massive welfare programs in history and it was absolutely brillent. Today you conservatives will not even pay for veteran healthcare

Will is gay?
As I read through Dr. Adams' column, I thought to myself that there was no possibility Will could bring in the gay angle. Once again, I am wrong! It is truly mind-boggling that he could find fault along these lines. It would be a whole lot easier if he would just type "HOMOPHOBE!!!!!!!" and be done with it. Inconceivable!

Mod/lib view
If it doesn't work, throw more money at it.

right is its own defense
"If it doesn't work, throw more money at it. "

With supervision and accountability perhaps which are just two parts of competence that are little understood by conservatives

LMAO
What is all this carrying on about gays? Geesh Will took over this blog quick enough LOL

Scratch that
That's the liberal view, not the moderate view. I like to think moderates are a little more results-based. Liberals seem to have a philosophy that dictates their actions and if the facts don't support it, then throw more money at the problem and maybe that will help. If it doesn't, it couldn't possibly be that the program is wrong to begin with. Nope. Throw even MORE money at it. And that explains the education system in D.C....

Hal "LMAO" Donahue opines:
"See I guess this is a conservative view that they think the government doesn't work for them but actually controls them. The moderate/liberal view is if it doesn't work fix it or end it."


So how's that "War On Poverty" thing going, Hal?

Don't you think 40+ years and $11 trillion is enough to "fix it or end it"?

right is its own defense
"That's the liberal view, not the moderate view. I like to think moderates are a little more results-based."

If only,,,,if anything is NOT results based it is conservatism I mean look at performance over the past Bush Regime years.

".... Nope. Throw even MORE money at it. And that explains the education system in D.C...."

A whole lot of things explain DC but certainly management and supervision - drastic action is required to fix problems like that and all you conservative offer is surrender

Primus54
"...So how's that "War On Poverty" thing going, Hal?"

The war on poverty ended with LBJ's decision not to seek reelection its corpse was kept warm as a funding xmas tree same think happened withNixon's war on drugs

"Don't you think 40+ years and $11 trillion is enough to "fix it or end it"? "

Sure I do it ended long ago

Stop picking on Hal
He is, after all, "brillent" (sic). "Many government bureacracies have amazed me with their dedication and thrift." I am sure that he even amazes himself sometimes.

Hal Doofus Keeps On Raving:
right is its own defense
"If it doesn't work, throw more money at it. "

With supervision and accountability perhaps which are just two parts of competence that are little understood by conservatives

Unfortunately supervision and accountability are not found in the lim/mod lexicon.

BTW, the sentence makes absolutely no sense, no verb, subject etc, just two subordinate clauses strung together.

Lumberjack7392
"..With supervision and accountability perhaps which are just two parts of competence that are little understood by conservatives"

"Unfortunately supervision and accountability are not found in the lim/mod lexicon."

You wonderful (sigh...) conservatives just accomplished so much over the six years you had complete control of the government. Errr what were they? tell me again how we are safer and richer now?

"BTW, the sentence makes absolutely no sense, no verb, subject etc, just two subordinate clauses strung together."

hmmm yet you understood...if you think I am going to waste time proof reading for you lot....


Nice article, Mike
"Religion that God... accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world." Surely the child of an ex-con with an addictive personality would qualify as an "orphan" in need of Christian charity.

To be fair, atheists are generally just as capable of charity as anyone else. But they are generally incapable of appreciating the spiritual motivation that compels Christians to be charitable. If good works are their own reward and their only reward, we are "of all people, most miserable".

Hal Doofus Keeps On Raving:
BTW, the sentence makes absolutely no sense, no verb, subject etc, just two subordinate clauses strung together."

hmmm yet you understood...if you think I am going to waste time proof reading for you lot....

No I had a gibberish translator make sense of it for me.

To be truthful
Hal should admit that he meant to say, "Republicans controlled Congress". Conservative principles were thrown by the wayside in an attempt to buy votes. The "Republicrats" got power-drunk and tried to outspend the real Dems. "Conservatives" like Mike Pence actually try to limit govt. spending. Do not confuse the term "Conservatives" with the term "Republicans". Arlen Specter, Olympia Snow and Lindsay Graham are republicans but they are not conservatives. Why do you libs think we voted them out of office? The war? Ha!

CVN65
"....Conservative principles were thrown by the wayside in an attempt to buy votes. The "Republicrats" got power-drunk and tried to outspend the real Dems."

But this is the normal outcome of your version of conservatism - everyman for themselves. I am surprised that you seem surprised.

"....Why do you libs think we voted them out of office? The war? Ha! "

You didn't vote them out. The people did in complete disgust i.e. failed Senator Santorum and if you think that was a lot watch 08

Let me see if I get this Hal ..
Your position is that, absent the GI Bill, the men who fought WWII would have found meaningful employment simply beyond their grasp and/or means?

I have no doubt of any kind that those men would have been MORE successful left to their own devices.




C_Miner
C_Miner writes: Monday, April, 07, 2008 8:12 AM

"Unfortunately, Will is a one-trick pony."

Gelding? ;-)

Hal
This is the normal outcome for my type of conservatism? I fail to see where government was reduced in size and scope. I also cannot recall that government became less intrusive in my life. Also lost on me was a new tax code that doesn't punish the achievers and producers. You are wrong, Hal, they did not govern as conservatives. The worst thing is that you know this yet continue to stretch the truth. But that is what I expect from someone as "brillent"(sic) as you.

CVN65
Will did actually post a comment the other day without using the words "gay", "homosexual", "anal sex", or "transexual"......thus a record of 18,754 consecutive posts was snapped. However, never fear...he has another streak going!

Agent Crawfish
"Let me see if I get this Hal ..
Your position is that, absent the GI Bill, the men who fought WWII would have found meaningful employment simply beyond their grasp and/or means? "

Not quite. That is essentially what they said. And it is not just employment of which we speak. It is unlocking brillance and ingenuity that would have been spent in a small dusty town or a large city without fully developing. This is their story not mine; although I almost certainly would not have done as well as I did without the GI Bill when I returned home in the late 60's

"I have no doubt of any kind that those men would have been MORE successful left to their own devices. "

Then you are very naive

CVN65
"This is the normal outcome for my type of conservatism? I fail to see where government was reduced in size and scope. I also cannot recall that government became less intrusive in my life. "

That is my point! You are scammed. Although I thinnk the Clinton era may have seen smaller governemnt

"Also lost on me was a new tax code that doesn't punish the achievers and producers. You are wrong, Hal, they did not govern as conservatives. "

THEY DO govern as Conservatives this is my point! Personal gain overrides the common good - that is the KEY to modern conservatism. There is no personal gain in smaller government. That is why "conservatives" from Ronnie on have resulted in larger government.



Icedog
I regularly post comments without referencing the "gay issue". But Mike has a history. Mike has made a cottage industry out of his intolerance towards gays (& feminists & atheists). So, it is perfectly logical a poster might bring up these perpetual views, even if they are not specifically addressed in the column at hand.

Come on, Will
You wrote: 'I regularly post comments without referencing the "gay issue"."

Dr. Adams's last column was the first one in which your contributions did not raise the gay issue.

While not regular, it was a good start.

Then you had to go and do it again this column.

We had such high hopes.

Giving Credit Where It's Due, Adams
And I'll be the one to do it---Nice article from you. It's nice to read other topics coming from you for a change.

As for the article, it's quite honorable what your mother did. I must be very cynical because I doubt I would ever do the same as she.

Lumberjack
You wrote to the Kolonel:

"1st Doofus: I served my time in the military. It only cost me 65% of my hearing in my left ear, a wrecked knee and shoulder, and a case of hypertension. So STFU about that.

You are too busy doing what? Trying to get another Dem who sees the government as the solution to all the nation's problems elected. I suspect that you truly believe the average American is too stupid to think for him/herself, and to try to solve the nation's problems w/o gov't assistance."

Good show. I notice that that Kolonel hasn't been LMAO too much lately. He must be looking in the mirror and noticing that he is becoming nothing but skin and bones.
Thanks for your service
One vet to another

Nice change
Mike, a nice change. It is strange, but most young liberals that I remember believed in the basic goodness of everyone.......... especially in their youth. How does that old saying go, if a person in their youth is not a liberal they don't have a soul, in they don't become a conservative in their old age they don't have a mind.......However, we can always try to hold onto our youth.

Picking Up Hitch-Hikers
While driving with my daughers from the Midwest to NY, we saw a man hitch-hiking at a rest area with a sign "to NY or bust." I wanted to pick the man up--we had 500 miles to go--but my daughters feared the man might smell bad. I didn't pick the man up but would have had I been alone. It was very dumb of me to risk my daughters' lives. My own mother taught me by example about helping the poor but she never put our lives at stake in the process. Although we need to teach our children, we need to protect them first and foremost. I certainly hope my daughters didn't learn "risk your life to help a hitch hiker."

Mislead by the title - - -
- - when I saw "The Prisoner" I thought it had to deal with one of the greatest TV shows ever, Patrick McGoohan in a wonderful series shot in Wales fifty years ago!
Sadly, no..........

Hey there
Great column, Mike. I love your Mom. She sounds like mine. I remember Mother taking sandwiches to the door for hoboes that stopped by during the Depression. And we were like many others--making do and doing without.
The G. I. bill was used by men (and women) who deserved it, appreciated it, and made use of it to enrich the lives of them, their families and our great country.
LBJ may have meant well but his Great Society has backfired on us and made a generational society of welfare opportunists. Going on the 4th now maybe--with 14 and 15 year olds having babies?
From here on out I declare I will never read a comment by Will or Tru---or any comments addressed to them. Talk about one track minds!!!

Hal "LMAO" Donahue claims:
"The war on poverty ended with LBJ's decision not to seek reelection its corpse was kept warm as a funding xmas tree same think happened withNixon's war on drugs"

And Primus54 asked:
"Don't you think 40+ years and $11 trillion is enough to "fix it or end it"? "

Hal responds: "Sure I do it ended long ago"


Really Hal? So we spent $11 trillion in just over 3 years, not 43 & counting?

Not that you had much credibility to begin with, but this incredible attempt at revisionist history is one of the best examples you've ever displayed of total leftist brain-washing!

Oh - and "proof-reading" may seem to be a waste of time for you, but it would certainly gain you much needed intelligence points and might be a sign that you don't spend all afternoon drinking.

But we know the real truth, don't we Hal?

You're just not capable...

"LMAO®"

One never knows
when a good deed or a testimony will change a life. Could be immediate or could be down the road. Keep fighting the good (and righteous) fight.

Primus
The Kolonel is a proponent of revisionist history. In fact he is one of the authors.

Hal Donahue, Will, ApolloSpeaks
You people are Nutz, warped to the core.

Mother Always Knows Best
Dr. Adams, God Bless you and your Mom and thank you so very much for your article.

Good Work
Adams' column shows the good that can be done by religious believers such as himself and his mother. What always bothers me though is when religion gets highjacked by the bad guys : Islamic fundamentalists, polygamist cult dictators, pedophile priests, etc. They can make it hard to appreciate religion's decent practitioners, by casting a shadow over religion in general.

Excellent
Excellent article Mike, thank you.

Will, you're an idiot.
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